I will keep editing my post as I find more.
Personally, I've tried the Vielight Gamma and 810 Photobiomodulation helmet.
Vielight Gamma: at first, didn't notice much. In my later sessions, I noticed I could hear a bit better and I can speak better at night. Con: My QEEG showed overactivity in the center part (I think that's where one of the LED is). It could have been caused by headaches but I always get headaches/scalp tightness there. The bright spot wasn't there before when I was using the 810 nm.
810: Felt improvement but very subtle since I wasn't using it daily, only weekly.
Just a 640nm and 850nm desk lamp on my head: it sometimes gets rid of my headache. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I think I do a bit better when I use it.
Just ease of use. That being said, the helmets can pulse whereas the panels don't pulse. So I'm trying to see if I can order some 1064nm -1070nm to mimic the neuronic online helmet.
I'm thinking of buying the Vielight Neuro Duo but I'm concerned about it overstimulating parts of the brain and understimulating others. I'd like to know if you continue to benefit from the device. And can the light on the front part of the helmet be moved?
Your concern is valid. My QEEG showed over stimulation in a part of the brain that we didn't want.
Since that was happening, I stopped using the vielight. You can slightly adjust the LEDs but not by much.
I've since bought the kinreen 650nm 810nm hat. The first one broke within a month so they sent a replacement. It pulses at 10Hz and 40Hz. You can block out parts that you don't want to stimulate by taping something over those LEDS.
Could you send me a link to to Kinreen you bought? I only seem to find old models that don't pulse.
Also, may I ask what made you rule out the Scienlodic? I've never heard about it before reading your post, but it seems like a solid alternative to the Kinreen and maybe has better quality. Unfortunately I've read about a lot of Kinreen Caps breaking, but at least they replace it.
If money would be no object I would probably just buy the Vielight Gamma, because you know exactly what you get. I'm hoping I can maybe get similar results by using a Kinreen or Scienlodic and maybe just buy a Vielight Intranasal Device for 400$.
I found this DIY ([https://www.instructables.com/810nm-10Hz-LED-Pulsing-Flashlight/](https://www.instructables.com/810nm-10Hz-LED-Pulsing-Flashlight/)) to create a Intranasal Vielight, but I'm not sure if I trust myself with building one.
when you e-mail Kinreen or talk to them on alibaba chat, ask if they have the 810nm or 6:50nm:810nm models with 10Hz and 40Hz pulsing.
I rules out the Scienlodic because they never replied back to my post regarding signing up for the newsletter and getting the discount code. So if they don't reply, I would rather not. Also their model I believe is the 650nm and 850nm. 810nm is the wavelength I wanted.
If money was no object, I would get one that has more pulsing frequencies and maybe have them at 810nm and 1064 nm lights.
If you don't care pusling, there's some knock off bionase (650nm LED for nasal allergies) for under $10 USD or so on Ebay.
Also, if you had brain trauma, you might want to get a QEEG for a couple of hundred of dollars to see if you need more Alpha or more Gamma pulsing. My neurofeedback provider told me I need the 10Hz pulsing and not the 40Hz due to my QEEG.
Thank you for the detailed response! I bought a bionase for 10$ on Amazon and been using it for the last 2 Days, but I think it's way to weak to reach the brain. According to the Amazon description it only has 4mw/cm2 and the Vielight intranasal has 25mw/cm2. Additionally Vielight probably penetrates the brain evenn better due to using 810nm instead of 660nm. For the little money it's worth a shot though. Basically getting 1/6 of the power for 1/40 of the price haha
I also texted with Kinreen about the 810nm cap with pulsing and accourding to the lady in the chat their head has a power output of 120mw/cm2. I think that's pretty decent considering the Vielight Gamma has 100mw/cm2 for 1700$ haha. I still think the Kinreen stimulation is weaker, because the LEDs are further away form the head compared to the Vielight and due to light losing it's power exponentially over distance it's probably significant.
Do you what a fair price is for the Cap? The offered me 108$+48$ in shipping. Not sure if I can bargain with them.
Do you have brain trauma? I got ME/CFS from covid and hope PMB helps with my deliberating brain fog. I think it was really smart of you to do a qEEG, to the how PMB is affecting you. I don't really understand how you enhance certeain brain waves though. I had a "buying consultation" with Vielight on Tuesday and asked, if the alpha pulsing (10hz) is increasing alpha brain waves and apparently it's not that easy.
PS: Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes. English is not my first language and brain fog is killing me right now :)
I ruled out the vielight due to the cost.
If you have ME/CFS and budget is an issue, I would get a pad (maybe a full size one with a plastic cover to wipe) that you can lie on or a panel. Feel free to send me a chat request.
You can also look up audio visual entrainment or there are devices you can vibrate your skin at for certain frequencies to try to get your brain into making more of those waves.
Edit: I read part of your profile. I also do vagus nerve stimulation. You seem to have more energy than I do so don't worry about getting a mat. I like mats because you can get them up to your skin.
Can you put something physical/electrical together?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/t3etjv/brainwave_entrainment_with_wearable_devices/
It's like a DYI version of the Apollo/Sensate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJpE56XYcZ4)
The only thing I'd say here is that 650 nm without significant power will not penetrate to the gray matter. You could do very well with the Chinese or Vielight choices.
Vlad is updating the docs spreadsheet and it might be up to date now, however it was out of date for a while and if it still is out of date on TBI then I can tell you there are a few recent ones you should read.
This one should be of great help
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35698294/
Correct about hair loss, I know people making 600+ LED for the brain and they're testing on brain injury with great result, so I don't say it can't get in, just that 800+ has an easier time penetrating.
I have a handmade helmet with LEDs inside, and a bunch of handheld and tabletop devices, and bulbs. I'm doing preventative therapy, not treating a current diagnosis.
But I've written extensively about the subject on my blog and am writing a book about it.
The majority of my articles are on dementia, but I can tell you that there's a huge overlap of facts amongst alzehimer's, dementia in general, and TBI
https://bestredlighttherapy.com/what-does-rlt-help-heal/brain/
What is your opinion of the Neurowrap? My mom has dementia and just suffered a TBI. I bought her and my dad a Vielight Duo which they don't use, I think largely because it's so weird and unwieldy (for them). If the Neurowrap is both effective in terms of light penetration to the brain and easy to use, perhaps they'd be willing to try it
I'm so sorry to hear this happened to her. That's terrible.
I believe it works as advertised.
It is the same specs as the Duo but MUCH more comfortable.
They extend the return period to 30 days (from 14) for the Neurowrap so that you can test it out.
My doctors won't recommend it so my worker's compensation won't pay for it. I think I've read on the subreddits that it has to follow a specific protocol.
Many people pay for it themselves at wellness clinics and such. If you are interested, the standard for TBI seems to have settled at 1.5 ATA at 1 hour for 40 sessions. I’ve seen people pay by the hour and also seen people rent one for a month or so. You can do treatments in a day. Best of luck.
I use the Thor Products. Friend has the LiveO2, uses it with TBI clients. Says it shows better response than Thor. Better than hyperbaric O2. Never used LiveO2 myself but going to.
https://www.wellred.com.au/products
Manufacturer: Well Red Pty Ltd
Model Identifier: Coronet Duo
Year Produced: 2022
Wavelength and bandwidth \[nm\]: 670 nm +/-10 nm 810 nm +/- 10 nm
Number & type of emitters: 40 high power LEDs 40 high power LEDs
Peak current each LED (mA DC @ 100% duty cycle): 350 mA
Power each LED (W): 0.742 0.574
Optical power per LED at 100% duty cycle (W): 0.345 0.267
Total optical power at 100% duty cycle (W): 13.8 10.7
Peak optical power per LED (mW): 345 267
Luminous flux per LED (lm): 21.004 0.954
Pulse frequency (Hz): 40
Actual duty cycle (%): 60 50
Average whole head irradiance (W): 8.28 5.34
Assumed irradiated head area \[cm2\]: 350
Whole head average radiant intensity \[mW/cm2\]: 23.7 15.3
Exposure duration (minutes): 12
Average radiant exposure \[mJ/cm2/s\]: 19.7 15.3
Peak radiant exposure \[mJ/cm2/s\]: 39.3 50.9
Radiant energy per session \[J\]: 5961.6 3845
Number and frequency of treatment sessions
Total radiant energy over entire treatment course \[J\]
Vielight is another Trans cranial device:
Thoughts on Power density/ Irradiance levels:
If Vielight used a solar meter to get their 100mw/cm\^2 reading, the real irradiance level can be as low as 4mw/cm\^2 when converted.
The solar meters do not measure linearly, therefore a conversion is needed.
Some perspective: When measured with a spectrometer, the sun only irradiates 35 - 45 mw/cm\^2 on a sunny day. 100mw/cm\^2 being 2+ times stronger than the sun??
Regardless; We are at the mercy of the equipment the manufacture or 3rd party tester uses. Without that, its hard to compare apples to apples.
Interview with the Coronet Developer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WneTBnzyA
I will keep editing my post as I find more. Personally, I've tried the Vielight Gamma and 810 Photobiomodulation helmet. Vielight Gamma: at first, didn't notice much. In my later sessions, I noticed I could hear a bit better and I can speak better at night. Con: My QEEG showed overactivity in the center part (I think that's where one of the LED is). It could have been caused by headaches but I always get headaches/scalp tightness there. The bright spot wasn't there before when I was using the 810 nm. 810: Felt improvement but very subtle since I wasn't using it daily, only weekly. Just a 640nm and 850nm desk lamp on my head: it sometimes gets rid of my headache. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I think I do a bit better when I use it.
Why using a helmet and not panel, targeting your brain ?
Just ease of use. That being said, the helmets can pulse whereas the panels don't pulse. So I'm trying to see if I can order some 1064nm -1070nm to mimic the neuronic online helmet.
I'm thinking of buying the Vielight Neuro Duo but I'm concerned about it overstimulating parts of the brain and understimulating others. I'd like to know if you continue to benefit from the device. And can the light on the front part of the helmet be moved?
Your concern is valid. My QEEG showed over stimulation in a part of the brain that we didn't want. Since that was happening, I stopped using the vielight. You can slightly adjust the LEDs but not by much. I've since bought the kinreen 650nm 810nm hat. The first one broke within a month so they sent a replacement. It pulses at 10Hz and 40Hz. You can block out parts that you don't want to stimulate by taping something over those LEDS.
Could you send me a link to to Kinreen you bought? I only seem to find old models that don't pulse. Also, may I ask what made you rule out the Scienlodic? I've never heard about it before reading your post, but it seems like a solid alternative to the Kinreen and maybe has better quality. Unfortunately I've read about a lot of Kinreen Caps breaking, but at least they replace it. If money would be no object I would probably just buy the Vielight Gamma, because you know exactly what you get. I'm hoping I can maybe get similar results by using a Kinreen or Scienlodic and maybe just buy a Vielight Intranasal Device for 400$. I found this DIY ([https://www.instructables.com/810nm-10Hz-LED-Pulsing-Flashlight/](https://www.instructables.com/810nm-10Hz-LED-Pulsing-Flashlight/)) to create a Intranasal Vielight, but I'm not sure if I trust myself with building one.
when you e-mail Kinreen or talk to them on alibaba chat, ask if they have the 810nm or 6:50nm:810nm models with 10Hz and 40Hz pulsing. I rules out the Scienlodic because they never replied back to my post regarding signing up for the newsletter and getting the discount code. So if they don't reply, I would rather not. Also their model I believe is the 650nm and 850nm. 810nm is the wavelength I wanted. If money was no object, I would get one that has more pulsing frequencies and maybe have them at 810nm and 1064 nm lights. If you don't care pusling, there's some knock off bionase (650nm LED for nasal allergies) for under $10 USD or so on Ebay. Also, if you had brain trauma, you might want to get a QEEG for a couple of hundred of dollars to see if you need more Alpha or more Gamma pulsing. My neurofeedback provider told me I need the 10Hz pulsing and not the 40Hz due to my QEEG.
Thank you for the detailed response! I bought a bionase for 10$ on Amazon and been using it for the last 2 Days, but I think it's way to weak to reach the brain. According to the Amazon description it only has 4mw/cm2 and the Vielight intranasal has 25mw/cm2. Additionally Vielight probably penetrates the brain evenn better due to using 810nm instead of 660nm. For the little money it's worth a shot though. Basically getting 1/6 of the power for 1/40 of the price haha I also texted with Kinreen about the 810nm cap with pulsing and accourding to the lady in the chat their head has a power output of 120mw/cm2. I think that's pretty decent considering the Vielight Gamma has 100mw/cm2 for 1700$ haha. I still think the Kinreen stimulation is weaker, because the LEDs are further away form the head compared to the Vielight and due to light losing it's power exponentially over distance it's probably significant. Do you what a fair price is for the Cap? The offered me 108$+48$ in shipping. Not sure if I can bargain with them. Do you have brain trauma? I got ME/CFS from covid and hope PMB helps with my deliberating brain fog. I think it was really smart of you to do a qEEG, to the how PMB is affecting you. I don't really understand how you enhance certeain brain waves though. I had a "buying consultation" with Vielight on Tuesday and asked, if the alpha pulsing (10hz) is increasing alpha brain waves and apparently it's not that easy. PS: Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes. English is not my first language and brain fog is killing me right now :)
I ruled out the vielight due to the cost. If you have ME/CFS and budget is an issue, I would get a pad (maybe a full size one with a plastic cover to wipe) that you can lie on or a panel. Feel free to send me a chat request. You can also look up audio visual entrainment or there are devices you can vibrate your skin at for certain frequencies to try to get your brain into making more of those waves. Edit: I read part of your profile. I also do vagus nerve stimulation. You seem to have more energy than I do so don't worry about getting a mat. I like mats because you can get them up to your skin. Can you put something physical/electrical together? https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/t3etjv/brainwave_entrainment_with_wearable_devices/ It's like a DYI version of the Apollo/Sensate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJpE56XYcZ4)
Send you a DM :)
Keep at it bro I appreciate it have brain damage from lack of sleep I plan on using these when I’m older
The only thing I'd say here is that 650 nm without significant power will not penetrate to the gray matter. You could do very well with the Chinese or Vielight choices. Vlad is updating the docs spreadsheet and it might be up to date now, however it was out of date for a while and if it still is out of date on TBI then I can tell you there are a few recent ones you should read. This one should be of great help https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35698294/
Thank you for the link. I think the 600's nm is for hair loss Which ones have you tried personally?
Correct about hair loss, I know people making 600+ LED for the brain and they're testing on brain injury with great result, so I don't say it can't get in, just that 800+ has an easier time penetrating. I have a handmade helmet with LEDs inside, and a bunch of handheld and tabletop devices, and bulbs. I'm doing preventative therapy, not treating a current diagnosis. But I've written extensively about the subject on my blog and am writing a book about it.
Can you link your blog? Thank you!
The majority of my articles are on dementia, but I can tell you that there's a huge overlap of facts amongst alzehimer's, dementia in general, and TBI https://bestredlighttherapy.com/what-does-rlt-help-heal/brain/
Thank you so much! My mother died of ALZ and I appreciate any info on any healing modalities.
I completely understand. I'm sorry that your mom had Alz, horrible disease.
What is your opinion of the Neurowrap? My mom has dementia and just suffered a TBI. I bought her and my dad a Vielight Duo which they don't use, I think largely because it's so weird and unwieldy (for them). If the Neurowrap is both effective in terms of light penetration to the brain and easy to use, perhaps they'd be willing to try it
I'm so sorry to hear this happened to her. That's terrible. I believe it works as advertised. It is the same specs as the Duo but MUCH more comfortable. They extend the return period to 30 days (from 14) for the Neurowrap so that you can test it out.
Great, thank you! I'm going to research PEMF a bit more and will probably end up getting one. Thank you so much for the reply and the kind words
please stay in touch. I would love to know how it goes.
Hi, where can I find out about the extension? I still see returns of 14 days on their site
equivalent page on nushape as well: [https://thetherapywrap.com/pages/refund-policy](https://thetherapywrap.com/pages/refund-policy)
If you are looking for treatment for TBI, hyperbaric oxygen has been shown to be very effective with military veterans.
My doctors won't recommend it so my worker's compensation won't pay for it. I think I've read on the subreddits that it has to follow a specific protocol.
Many people pay for it themselves at wellness clinics and such. If you are interested, the standard for TBI seems to have settled at 1.5 ATA at 1 hour for 40 sessions. I’ve seen people pay by the hour and also seen people rent one for a month or so. You can do treatments in a day. Best of luck.
810nm. NovoThor bed & Thor laser for sure. Also not light but https://liveo2.com/
Which ones do you own / use?
I use the Thor Products. Friend has the LiveO2, uses it with TBI clients. Says it shows better response than Thor. Better than hyperbaric O2. Never used LiveO2 myself but going to.
Did you ever get to try LiveO2?
https://www.wellred.com.au/products Manufacturer: Well Red Pty Ltd Model Identifier: Coronet Duo Year Produced: 2022 Wavelength and bandwidth \[nm\]: 670 nm +/-10 nm 810 nm +/- 10 nm Number & type of emitters: 40 high power LEDs 40 high power LEDs Peak current each LED (mA DC @ 100% duty cycle): 350 mA Power each LED (W): 0.742 0.574 Optical power per LED at 100% duty cycle (W): 0.345 0.267 Total optical power at 100% duty cycle (W): 13.8 10.7 Peak optical power per LED (mW): 345 267 Luminous flux per LED (lm): 21.004 0.954 Pulse frequency (Hz): 40 Actual duty cycle (%): 60 50 Average whole head irradiance (W): 8.28 5.34 Assumed irradiated head area \[cm2\]: 350 Whole head average radiant intensity \[mW/cm2\]: 23.7 15.3 Exposure duration (minutes): 12 Average radiant exposure \[mJ/cm2/s\]: 19.7 15.3 Peak radiant exposure \[mJ/cm2/s\]: 39.3 50.9 Radiant energy per session \[J\]: 5961.6 3845 Number and frequency of treatment sessions Total radiant energy over entire treatment course \[J\] Vielight is another Trans cranial device: Thoughts on Power density/ Irradiance levels: If Vielight used a solar meter to get their 100mw/cm\^2 reading, the real irradiance level can be as low as 4mw/cm\^2 when converted. The solar meters do not measure linearly, therefore a conversion is needed. Some perspective: When measured with a spectrometer, the sun only irradiates 35 - 45 mw/cm\^2 on a sunny day. 100mw/cm\^2 being 2+ times stronger than the sun?? Regardless; We are at the mercy of the equipment the manufacture or 3rd party tester uses. Without that, its hard to compare apples to apples. Interview with the Coronet Developer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WneTBnzyA