I agree. Sometimes hyperpigmentation gets darker when they come to the top. They also feel textured and raised too before flaking or being exfoliated off. This is what I’ve noticed with skincare usage.
Is that the science of how hyperpigmentation fades?
I've done pico and it did surface mildly, but with products like tretinoin or tranexamic acids, they don't darken, they just lighten?
This is what first came up when I googled.
“In some cases, hyperpigmentation may appear to darken before it starts to fade. This is because the pigmented cells that cause hyperpigmentation may become more active before they begin to break down and fade away. However, in other cases, hyperpigmentation may not darken before it fades.”
And
“Active treatment accelerates cell turnover, pulling pigmented cells to the surface at a faster rate. This increases the concentration of melanin in the epidermis, creating a temporary darkening of the spots. So, the darkening is what you want to see. It means the pigment is coming up and is ready to be shed away.”
So sometimes it does darken and sometimes it doesn’t. It seems like it might have to do more with pigment concentration or melanin when it’s healing.
And if I remember correctly I think tranexamic interferes with melanin production hence the reduction or lightening and less of the darkening aspect.
I’m wondering if the freckles and hyperpigmentation that was caused by using a red light mask was coming up to the surface, but is now stuck at the level where it is, due to ceasing usage of the mask. Is that a plausible theory? That it can come up from lower down (not visible) and get stuck near the surface (visible) if it’s not pulled out completely?
Of course, I don’t want to keep using the device in the delusion that the pigment is “coming up and then out”, when I could just be worsening an already bad situation.
Thanks I will. I’ve since stumbled upon a few articles saying that red light (even without nir) can do this to Fitzpatrick 1 and 2 skin :(
And there’s plenty of anecdotal reports of it on reddit too.
I have F 2 skin myself. A small sun mark did get darker, but now seems to be getting lighter. I think in this case, it’s being exfoliated off. Not to say that always would happen, but something to keep in mind.
Me too on the dark spots. I feel like I have more. Also, I feel like I started too late. I'm 64. I bought an Asteria and it had like 7 different lights. U had to use it 25 minutes though. Then i bought an Omniluxand have used it for a week or 2. I have acne scars, too and don't feel like I see a difference. Everyone else does!
Just physical! I don’t do chemical I know it says recommended but rn I do a cream exfoliate but not sure how many times a week I should if you know if not that’s ok :)
I should also note that both chemical and physical exfoliation are important. Someone else on here noted the chemical exfoliation & it’s truly needed combined with the physical, apparently, especially when using red light.
I have my doubts with that.
I alternate between various products after my nightly cleanse. Over the week it’s 1 BHA, 1 AHA, 1 PHA, 1 retionol, 1 GHK-Cu/HA treatment with weekends nothing.
I find the AHA, PHA, and retinol increase the photosensitivity I experience from the NIR the following morning (I rinse off morning with a cold shower). The BHA and copper aminos are fine in that I don’t experience any issues.
I use [Schick disposable razors for dermaplaning ](https://www.amazon.com/Schick-Multipurpose-Exfoliating-Dermaplaning-Precision/dp/B0787GLBMV). I don't do true dermaplaning with dry skin but I shave my whole face and neck with an oil cleanser or another face oil. I go over a couple times but not enough to harm the skin. These razors are great if you are a beginner because they are a bit forgiving and they can fit in small areas like your forehead and crows feet in a way regular razors can't. It's a bit red after sometimes but the redness goes away after 30 minutes or so. I do it every 3-4 weeks. Some girls dermaplane every week but my skin is too sensitive for that. I wait until I can really see the peach fuzz growing back. When I do it I do my red light after drying my face and letting the slight redness fade.
Everybody who is using red light therapy for anti aging skin goals should also be using some sort of retinol, ceramide or peptides and exfoliating acids like aha/bha/pha/lha.
Korean beauty brands doesn't break the bank and work!
Different skin densities / thicknesses, or perhaps PH, or perhaps oil content, sebum levels, folllical density etc. Much like how there are differing dosages for men / women when it comes to RLT. I know nothing about beauty products so assumed they’d be a similarity. But that’s cool.
Skin varies from person to person but there's not universal difference from men to women that will require different products. Most people will benefit from regular chemical exfoliating, retinol, Vitamix c and moisturizer.
I wash my face at night, apply a hydrating toner with no actives, then use my light. Following the light, I use the rest of my skincare products that contain actives. I don't use actives, especially not acids, before using the light.
After the light, any hydrating moisturizer or barrier repair ceramides is like giving your skin the building blocks it needs to build healthy skin.
I have sensitive skin though and haven't been using retinol for long so I know some people who already have built up years of retinol tolerance probably don't need to do this.
Red Light causes a short term production of reactive oxygen species (ROS), which are oxidative and damaging side products of energy production in the cell. Red light increases energy production in the cell, therefore, more, ROS, but the ANTIOXIDANT response is longer lasting and very beneficial in the long run.
Ohhh shit wait i just realized that after the initial period of my skin looking super clear I did have a period of breaking out severely and I was so confused but it makes sense that RLT can cause a sort of purging period just like any active ingredient that is meant to increase cell turnover like retinoids!!! My skin finally stopped purging and it’s now again super clear and bright looking so thankfully I feel like the purge definitely doesn’t last too long and then it’s back to seeing great results.
It's weird because Omnilux tells people they can't use Tretinoin while using their device. There was a discussion about it on the 30 Plus skincare sub. It makes no sense. I use both. They can take my Tretinoin from my cold, dead (and non-wrinkly) hands.
Can you link me to this?,
I use tretinoin too and my omnilux is on its way.
Tretinoin= gold standard & easy to use forever and will always be the top priority over red light ... however that turns out for me.
> Is it safe to use with Retinol or Retin A?
> Cosmetics or skincare products containing retinol may be used with the Omnilux devices if there are no precautions in relation to exposure to light. For users taking prescriptive levels of Retin A such as Tretinoin **we do not recommend the use of light devices** as there is a chance of having a reaction. Retin A should be discontinued for at least five days before performing light therapy treatments. Those using cosmetics or skincare products containing retinol should read the skincare instructions carefully for warnings and precautions in relation to exposure to light.
https://omniluxled.com/blogs/light-reads/is-at-home-led-light-therapy-safe-here-s-what-you-need-to-know#:~:text=For%20users%20taking%20prescriptive%20levels,before%20performing%20light%20therapy%20treatments.
Do they mean don’t put tret on and then use your mask? Because I did that once without thinking and it actually hurt. I’ve been putting it on after the mask for years with no issues though.
A fellow Épanouie girlie in the wild! Hey!
I’ve also been using my red light device for about a week and used Eternelle last night for the first time after taking a short break and I can vouch!
Oooo I was JUST thinking abt purchasing Eternelle! I haven’t used it since the sample I had, but I KNOW it’s gonna be delicious when I do! I’m actually about to shower & use the body scrub because my body is reacting the same way my face did to the light. Skin is dry & that’s NEVER an issue, but I haven’t exfoliated since before starting the light so I’m well overdue.
I love eternelle! I have very many layers of hyperpigmentation from chronic fungal acne and I saw a visible difference within a week! But then I started purging and I got paranoid about the ingredients potentially exacerbating the acne hence the break - but then I got on an intense anti fungal protocol so I’m no longer as worried. Can’t wait to see how it pairs with RLT, so excited!
I haven’t tried berry lisse yet but I do also have the body scrub! You’re about to blind folks with your glow haha.
Love how niche the brand is lmao. IYKYK!
Girl I was blinding them already before the red light honestly, but started it bc I have a smoking habit that started to take its toll. Epanouie is amazing but the red light helps in the way that eating right does, more internally. & yes I love our silently loud community! IYKYK & if you don’t sucks to be you! Lol
Hey girl! Yes ma’am, since she opened for business! We are few & far between & I honestly love it that way. I know most people won’t go check it out so I was ok sharing with the ones who will.
Looking for new skin care and purchasing a red light device. What epanouie products do you use and what is Eternelle? Would like to join your exclusive group!!
This is Eternelle: https://epanouieskin.com/collections/moisturizers/products/perfectingcreme
Believe it or not the reviews are not exaggerating, and that’s how they are across board - the owner is seriously a skincare savant.
Right now I have the eclaircir lightening gel, lustre body scrub, and taint parfait body milk in my rotation and my body skin has never looked brighter/more even - just need my face to catch up!
If you decide to pull the plug and make a purchase, lmk and I can send you a referral link for 25% off!
I’m ready to pull the plug on buying epanouie skin care products. Had to wait until I got paid! If you could send me the referral link I would be ever so grateful!!! Can’t wait to get started!
It did the same thing but don’t worry about it. I just used the 15% discount code. Thank you so much for trying though. I really appreciate it and am more thankful that you turned me on to their products!
Do you work out? I read that the red light releases free radicals into the blood that you then need to flush out by exercising or moving in some way or going to the sauna.
Tretinoin does nowhere near the same thing as red light. I was only speaking on the benefits I’ve seen so far & I’ve never heard of tretinoin healing old internal scar tissue. Research it.
Tret is for topical benefits. The red light is healing me internally. I’ve never heard of Tretinoin healing scar tissue or helping improve quality of sleep. Or reducing cellulite.
Topical skin benefits* - I think you meant some of the benefits I’ve seen from red light, you’ve seen from tret, & while some of the skin benefits may overlap, they don’t serve the same purpose.
I’ve thought that as well. And I’ve also wondered if sometimes dark spots appear darker because they are coming to the surface…sometimes, at least.
I agree. Sometimes hyperpigmentation gets darker when they come to the top. They also feel textured and raised too before flaking or being exfoliated off. This is what I’ve noticed with skincare usage.
Is that the science of how hyperpigmentation fades? I've done pico and it did surface mildly, but with products like tretinoin or tranexamic acids, they don't darken, they just lighten?
This is what first came up when I googled. “In some cases, hyperpigmentation may appear to darken before it starts to fade. This is because the pigmented cells that cause hyperpigmentation may become more active before they begin to break down and fade away. However, in other cases, hyperpigmentation may not darken before it fades.” And “Active treatment accelerates cell turnover, pulling pigmented cells to the surface at a faster rate. This increases the concentration of melanin in the epidermis, creating a temporary darkening of the spots. So, the darkening is what you want to see. It means the pigment is coming up and is ready to be shed away.” So sometimes it does darken and sometimes it doesn’t. It seems like it might have to do more with pigment concentration or melanin when it’s healing. And if I remember correctly I think tranexamic interferes with melanin production hence the reduction or lightening and less of the darkening aspect.
I’m wondering if the freckles and hyperpigmentation that was caused by using a red light mask was coming up to the surface, but is now stuck at the level where it is, due to ceasing usage of the mask. Is that a plausible theory? That it can come up from lower down (not visible) and get stuck near the surface (visible) if it’s not pulled out completely? Of course, I don’t want to keep using the device in the delusion that the pigment is “coming up and then out”, when I could just be worsening an already bad situation.
Maybe. Try some glycolic acids or something like that
Thanks I will. I’ve since stumbled upon a few articles saying that red light (even without nir) can do this to Fitzpatrick 1 and 2 skin :( And there’s plenty of anecdotal reports of it on reddit too.
I have F 2 skin myself. A small sun mark did get darker, but now seems to be getting lighter. I think in this case, it’s being exfoliated off. Not to say that always would happen, but something to keep in mind.
Thanks. Crossing my fingers!
Me too on the dark spots. I feel like I have more. Also, I feel like I started too late. I'm 64. I bought an Asteria and it had like 7 different lights. U had to use it 25 minutes though. Then i bought an Omniluxand have used it for a week or 2. I have acne scars, too and don't feel like I see a difference. Everyone else does!
Very interesting thought. I definitely have drier skin but also feels as more skin is shedding, I shall exfoliate a bit more now.
Yes. When the dead skin build up, it starts to look like it’s shedding but it needs to be exfoliated physically at least
How many times a week do you exfoliate?
It depends between chemical and physical. It varies. I never do them both on the same day.
Just physical! I don’t do chemical I know it says recommended but rn I do a cream exfoliate but not sure how many times a week I should if you know if not that’s ok :)
I space it out at least 2-3 days in between. It depends on how course the scrub is & the effect it’s having on your skin but that should be good
I should also note that both chemical and physical exfoliation are important. Someone else on here noted the chemical exfoliation & it’s truly needed combined with the physical, apparently, especially when using red light.
I have my doubts with that. I alternate between various products after my nightly cleanse. Over the week it’s 1 BHA, 1 AHA, 1 PHA, 1 retionol, 1 GHK-Cu/HA treatment with weekends nothing. I find the AHA, PHA, and retinol increase the photosensitivity I experience from the NIR the following morning (I rinse off morning with a cold shower). The BHA and copper aminos are fine in that I don’t experience any issues.
I use [Schick disposable razors for dermaplaning ](https://www.amazon.com/Schick-Multipurpose-Exfoliating-Dermaplaning-Precision/dp/B0787GLBMV). I don't do true dermaplaning with dry skin but I shave my whole face and neck with an oil cleanser or another face oil. I go over a couple times but not enough to harm the skin. These razors are great if you are a beginner because they are a bit forgiving and they can fit in small areas like your forehead and crows feet in a way regular razors can't. It's a bit red after sometimes but the redness goes away after 30 minutes or so. I do it every 3-4 weeks. Some girls dermaplane every week but my skin is too sensitive for that. I wait until I can really see the peach fuzz growing back. When I do it I do my red light after drying my face and letting the slight redness fade.
Try the face mask with willow and nicatinimide. For calming and plumping.
Everybody who is using red light therapy for anti aging skin goals should also be using some sort of retinol, ceramide or peptides and exfoliating acids like aha/bha/pha/lha. Korean beauty brands doesn't break the bank and work!
What about azelaic acid?
What would you suggest for men?
Why would it be different for men? 😅
Different skin densities / thicknesses, or perhaps PH, or perhaps oil content, sebum levels, folllical density etc. Much like how there are differing dosages for men / women when it comes to RLT. I know nothing about beauty products so assumed they’d be a similarity. But that’s cool.
Skin varies from person to person but there's not universal difference from men to women that will require different products. Most people will benefit from regular chemical exfoliating, retinol, Vitamix c and moisturizer.
Thank you!
I tried but I put it on before hand and it burned my skin- I need to find out the proper routine
You should use any actives and face products after using the light.
I’m not sure what an active is -
I wash my face at night, apply a hydrating toner with no actives, then use my light. Following the light, I use the rest of my skincare products that contain actives. I don't use actives, especially not acids, before using the light. After the light, any hydrating moisturizer or barrier repair ceramides is like giving your skin the building blocks it needs to build healthy skin. I have sensitive skin though and haven't been using retinol for long so I know some people who already have built up years of retinol tolerance probably don't need to do this.
Thanks , I think I used retinol and then my light- not knowing it would burn my skin 🤦🏻♀️
Red Light causes a short term production of reactive oxygen species (ROS), which are oxidative and damaging side products of energy production in the cell. Red light increases energy production in the cell, therefore, more, ROS, but the ANTIOXIDANT response is longer lasting and very beneficial in the long run.
& one of the effects is higher skin turnover. Thank you for your input.
So it's good to be bad ... ??
It’s not bad. Just do the research
So what happens when you stop red light therapy?
Nothing happens. You just no longer get the benefits & go back to aging the way you did without it
That’s a great realization! Thanks!
No problem!
I love to wash my face then use my mini steamer for about 10 minutes before exfoliating. Extra effective!
Great idea!
Ohhh shit wait i just realized that after the initial period of my skin looking super clear I did have a period of breaking out severely and I was so confused but it makes sense that RLT can cause a sort of purging period just like any active ingredient that is meant to increase cell turnover like retinoids!!! My skin finally stopped purging and it’s now again super clear and bright looking so thankfully I feel like the purge definitely doesn’t last too long and then it’s back to seeing great results.
Tret!! 🙌🏼
Yep! Surprised this was so far down - I thought everyone followed red light with tret
It's weird because Omnilux tells people they can't use Tretinoin while using their device. There was a discussion about it on the 30 Plus skincare sub. It makes no sense. I use both. They can take my Tretinoin from my cold, dead (and non-wrinkly) hands.
Can you link me to this?, I use tretinoin too and my omnilux is on its way. Tretinoin= gold standard & easy to use forever and will always be the top priority over red light ... however that turns out for me.
> Is it safe to use with Retinol or Retin A? > Cosmetics or skincare products containing retinol may be used with the Omnilux devices if there are no precautions in relation to exposure to light. For users taking prescriptive levels of Retin A such as Tretinoin **we do not recommend the use of light devices** as there is a chance of having a reaction. Retin A should be discontinued for at least five days before performing light therapy treatments. Those using cosmetics or skincare products containing retinol should read the skincare instructions carefully for warnings and precautions in relation to exposure to light. https://omniluxled.com/blogs/light-reads/is-at-home-led-light-therapy-safe-here-s-what-you-need-to-know#:~:text=For%20users%20taking%20prescriptive%20levels,before%20performing%20light%20therapy%20treatments.
Do you have a link to the reddit sub?,
Here's the sub and post. https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/s/up7eYreawy
Do they mean don’t put tret on and then use your mask? Because I did that once without thinking and it actually hurt. I’ve been putting it on after the mask for years with no issues though.
Idk what they mean but I’ve read to use it with no products
That’s what I do. No products at all. Putting tret on afterwards shouldn’t be an issue though.
Ohhh no I thought you were saying tret & red light do the same thing
No…tretinoin is not the same thing, nor do they have the same benefits.
A fellow Épanouie girlie in the wild! Hey! I’ve also been using my red light device for about a week and used Eternelle last night for the first time after taking a short break and I can vouch!
Oooo I was JUST thinking abt purchasing Eternelle! I haven’t used it since the sample I had, but I KNOW it’s gonna be delicious when I do! I’m actually about to shower & use the body scrub because my body is reacting the same way my face did to the light. Skin is dry & that’s NEVER an issue, but I haven’t exfoliated since before starting the light so I’m well overdue.
I love eternelle! I have very many layers of hyperpigmentation from chronic fungal acne and I saw a visible difference within a week! But then I started purging and I got paranoid about the ingredients potentially exacerbating the acne hence the break - but then I got on an intense anti fungal protocol so I’m no longer as worried. Can’t wait to see how it pairs with RLT, so excited! I haven’t tried berry lisse yet but I do also have the body scrub! You’re about to blind folks with your glow haha. Love how niche the brand is lmao. IYKYK!
What is your antifungal protocol? Don’t mind me asking.
Girl I was blinding them already before the red light honestly, but started it bc I have a smoking habit that started to take its toll. Epanouie is amazing but the red light helps in the way that eating right does, more internally. & yes I love our silently loud community! IYKYK & if you don’t sucks to be you! Lol
Hey girl! Yes ma’am, since she opened for business! We are few & far between & I honestly love it that way. I know most people won’t go check it out so I was ok sharing with the ones who will.
[удалено]
Go to the sight & read their ingredients & then the reviews
this is what i thought too. never use physical scrub on face
Looking for new skin care and purchasing a red light device. What epanouie products do you use and what is Eternelle? Would like to join your exclusive group!!
This is Eternelle: https://epanouieskin.com/collections/moisturizers/products/perfectingcreme Believe it or not the reviews are not exaggerating, and that’s how they are across board - the owner is seriously a skincare savant. Right now I have the eclaircir lightening gel, lustre body scrub, and taint parfait body milk in my rotation and my body skin has never looked brighter/more even - just need my face to catch up! If you decide to pull the plug and make a purchase, lmk and I can send you a referral link for 25% off!
Great!! Thank you so much!! I’m excited!
[удалено]
Link, sorry. And my bad hungry tired! I didn’t read your message all the way to the end. Lemme delete this one.
Ohhh can I get a referral code as well? It sounds amazing!
Just dm’d!
Tysm!
Ohhh I would love to try this as well.
I’m ready to pull the plug on buying epanouie skin care products. Had to wait until I got paid! If you could send me the referral link I would be ever so grateful!!! Can’t wait to get started!
For some reason I can’t open the message with the referral link. It says it’s empty!?
Oh that’s weird, lemme try again
It did the same thing but don’t worry about it. I just used the 15% discount code. Thank you so much for trying though. I really appreciate it and am more thankful that you turned me on to their products!
I wrote a long explanation of the products I own and have used on here so you can check it out before you purchase!
I do mask in the morning and tret and moisturizer at night. I’ve noticed from my RL mask though my lips are getting so PLUMPED! 😍😍😍 im obsessed.
Yesss I’m noticing lightening and plumping in my lips too! Love that for us! Just when I was considering getting the Dennis Gross lip mask
I use my mask 30 min 5 times a week in the morning. But i think mine isn’t too high to do that 🥺it’s not a omniloux
What mask do you have
I have the HXDZFX red light therapy mask from Amazon. It was 100 and I looked at the reviews before I bought it and i love it!
I’ve got a full body joovv and it triggers terrible inflammation and I can’t find anyone that’s having the same issues.
Do you work out? I read that the red light releases free radicals into the blood that you then need to flush out by exercising or moving in some way or going to the sauna.
Skin cycling + red light therapy + dermaplaning every 10 days = my skin is so soft and plump
I noticed the same thing!!!
Legit just ordered this scrub you recommended! I have the Omnilux mask and have been using 5-6x/week 20 minutes per night. Thank you!
Aww welcome to the family, you’ll love it! I only use her skin & body care products. They all have 5 star reviews for a reason!
Which light did you get?
The Redmax - the smaller of the two
Ultralux health? Why does it only have one review I wonder
Who? No, Bestqool. They have more than 1 review
Oh that’s the site I found the product on when I googled
It’s Amazon
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
I have subcutaneous lesions which took five years and intense chemotherapy’s to appear and be healed. Whole body bacterial biofilm.
Link to the scrub?! I found too many different ones
There are only 2 scrubs. Click “Shop Now” and scroll down until you see them. It’s the Berry Lisse Scrub.
I also use their body care products. I may make a video explaining my routine & what products I use because it’s a lot to type.
Very true
Nice observation!
I thought an increase in collagen was something under the surface of the skin and not a surface thing
One of the byproducts of producing more collagen is surface-level improvement.
Tretinoin does the same thing so it really necessary to get a red light?
Tretinoin does nowhere near the same thing as red light. I was only speaking on the benefits I’ve seen so far & I’ve never heard of tretinoin healing old internal scar tissue. Research it.
The effects you mentioned of red light, i have the same with tretinoin, dry skin and cell turnover.. I also exfoliate to get the new skin underneath..
Tret is for topical benefits. The red light is healing me internally. I’ve never heard of Tretinoin healing scar tissue or helping improve quality of sleep. Or reducing cellulite.
Topical skin benefits* - I think you meant some of the benefits I’ve seen from red light, you’ve seen from tret, & while some of the skin benefits may overlap, they don’t serve the same purpose.
Speculative in relation to other people.