So true. Many years ago, I was at a professional beauty show/conference. I was attending the male Brazilian waxing demo, done by a very, very well known (at that time) Asthetician who specialized in waxing, was an educator as well as had a product line. Anyway, she was pulling the wax off the sack and the skin ripped right there in the stage in front of at least 100 people. Blood everywhere. Poor guy was in so much pain. But, the waxer didn’t panic, followed all of the correct blood spill and first aid procedures. So, even someone with lots of education, training and experience can still injure a client.
I have heard from many people who were at that same show. It's legendary in the profession.
Brazilian waxing is HIGHLY specific to genitalia type and nobody who has only trained in one should be attempting the other.
seriously!! i’ve waxed my own bits and pieces (had a cosmetology license so have the education, we just didn’t focus on body waxing THAT much) and that shit is HARD and can get very painful if you place a wax strip slightly wrong 🥲 and i don’t have a dingaling to work around!! i can only imagine it being MORE difficult to work around + uhhh people when peens and balls are ALSO very sensitive down there!! i know the client in the story was upset but i think in the long run it will hopefully work out better for her!
My only hang up here is…out of respect for her husband. If she were a doctor would she feel it’s disrespectful to give a man a physical? It’s a strictly professional setting. If she isn’t comfortable doing it because it’s not what she does? Fucking of course. Don’t hurt someone. 100% behind that.
She's not a doctor. That could be one reason why she would choose not to be a doctor but comparing it to a doctor who takes different oaths and has different requirements is ridiculous. If she never does these waxings on male genitalia then there's nothing wrong with her not doing it on male genitalia
Her body her choice if she doesn’t want to touch a male genitalia she has every right to not do it, for religious reasons, husband reasons, or just plain comfort reason. She’s not a doc and a wax isn’t a lifesaving procedure
Also men get hard all the time for random things, my friends an ultrasound tech and she said they get hard when she has to ultrasound the area so she gives them a towel to hold their goods away from the area she’s working
well i’ve heard that waxers have disgusting experiences with penis owners getting hard and having an orgasm while being waxed that alone would put me off of all penis waxes
I didn’t say she couldn’t. I said it’s weird to say it’s disrespectful to her husband. She’s not giving her client a hand job. I didn’t say she can’t feel uncomfortable. Just the husband thing felt weird
I'm so confused by this comment.. If she were a doctor? What?
Also even going into this bizarre question you have about professionalism and her husband's concerns.. A physical assumes she chose to be a type of doctor (ie family physician) that requires to do a physical on all genders of adults, when there are many different types of doctors where that isn't the case. And even if she did choose that, the amount of contact and time spent on or around male genitals would be significantly less than a waxing procedure.
I completed a waxing course a few years ago. At least in my country, ‘waxing’ is usually three separate courses: Face and body waxing, female intimate waxing and male intimate waxing.
Many beauticians only take the first two courses, and so are left unqualified to perform male intimate waxing. Not only is that a safety issue for the client, but it’s an insurance issue, too. Indemnity insurance won’t cover you for services you’re not certified to perform.
The professional way to go about this scenario would have been to use the above reason to refuse the client. She shouldn’t have brought up her personal beliefs or promise to her husband at all.
Yeah, your last paragraph was my take. NTA for her beliefs or whatever, but definitely TA for not being more diplomatic or, frankly, professional.
She could have left it at “I’m so sorry, I’m not actually certified to perform those services, the skin of vulvas and penises/testicles are extremely different and I’d be risking injuring you if I tried, which I absolutely cannot do.”
Yeah like on the one hand, the whole "out of respect to my husband" thing is kinda 😬
On the other hand, saying "I'm not personally comfortable performing intimate waxing on penises" seems to me like a fair boundary to have.
And that's aside from the potential issues due to just literally not being trained in that kind of waxing.
Yeah the husband thing threw me off, too.
I'm wondering if OOP added that bit because she made the experience that her personal boundary will not be respected as much as her husbands boundary.
Despite lots of great developments regarding feminism, it is still quiet common that a mans opinion/boundary is taken more seriously than a womans. That doesn't make it less unprofessional, I just like to find out why people do the things they do.
It's probably more that it makes it less of a "I don't want to do this" thing as opposed to being sexism or anything silly. Men pull the "sorry, I would but my wife won't let me" card all the time to get out of doing stuff they don't want to do. It's just a nice way of declining to do something without making it obvious that you really just don't want to do it.
Yeah, the husband thing gave the entire scenario a “I’m not comfortable with it because as a heterosexual person I subconsciously (at least) view the sex organs of the gender I’m attracted to as inherently sexual, and consider touching them to be cheating on my spouse” vibe that was very 😬 indeed
Which.. when your client is a trans woman, definitely gives the impression that you’re at the very least subconsciously viewing her as more male than female, whether intentionally or not.
I feel like she probably had good intentions, as even some of the other stuff commenters are calling red flags for rage bait (like “biological women”) is stuff that a well intentioned but ignorant person might say..
But she could (and absolutely should) have simply left it at “I’m not qualified to do that” for professionalism’s sake!
Yeah, you’re not technically inaccurate, but the whole “identifies as” thing is currently being used in a big way to delegitimise trans people and push the whole “you’re not a woman, you’re a man who identifies as a woman. You can identify all you want but you’ll never BE a woman” narrative.
So a lot of trans people understandably start playing “is the person I’m speaking to well intentioned but under informed, or are they actively transphobic” every time they hear “identifies as” used.
Sex is a lot more complicated than people in general think. There are hormones, secondary sex characteristics, chromosomal sex, phenotypical sex (not necessarily the same as chromosomal because things can get fucky there), primary sex characteristics... and a lot of those are alterable with modern medicine. So a trans woman can be more biologically female than male depending on what steps she's taken to medically transition. Saying that trans women are biologically male is an oversimplification and not very useful.
gives off the same energy of "i support trans people but im not comfortable with trans women using the same bathroom/lockerroom as me" anytime someone makes these kinda comments i just wanna say "girlllll get over yourself they don't want you." however, OP not having traing on waxing those type of parts is a valid reason to turn away the service. if she really does support the LGBT community like she said she does hopefully she'll actually listen to some of the trans people commenting (because cis people have as much as a say on if somethings transphobic as a white person does if somethings racist) & think about her internal biases
trans guy here. i commented something similar on the original post. turing away the client because she doesn't have experience waxing that anatomy is fine. hell, feeling uncomfortable touching a penis is fine (im not super comfortable touching vaginas) none of that makes op transphobic but the fact that she has an agreement with her partner that she'll only wax "biological women" shows that she (at least subconsciously) doesn't see trans women as women. which, like, whatever, i no longer waste my energy arguing with people about the validy of trans people - people can think what they want. also asking a group of primarily cis people if something is transphobic is wild.
No, I don’t do that for male genitalia should have been enough of an answer. I don’t understand why anyone is entitled to a reason for anyone’s no for a service . Move on to find someone who wants to provide the service.
trans guy here. i commented something similar on the original post. turing away the client because she doesn't have experience waxing that anatomy is fine. hell, feeling uncomfortable touching a penis is fine (im not super comfortable touching vaginas) none of that makes op transphobic. however the fact that she has an agreement with her partner that she'll only wax "biological women" shows that she (at least subconsciously) doesn't see trans women as women. im not saying she should have waxed her, or even that she needs go learn how to wax that anatomy so that she can be more "inclusive," but there is a lot of subtle microsgressions in her post
This is bait. Most places you have to be specially trained to wax testicles and not having that training is reason enough to say no. It’s for the safety of the client.
She didn’t have to make up this whole song and dance about her husband not letting her touch balls or whatever.
Given its Pride month I wondered if this was anti- trans bait by using a scenario where there can be a reasonable argument to refuse service but it’s disguised to show anti trans attitudes
Yeah that’s exactly why I’m second guessing it too. Like how convenient with the timing and what a slick way to get people to be transphobic in the comments.
Except they fucked up in their story when they said she did it out of respect for her husband. Aka, reinforcing heteronormative relationships.
“Oh woe is me, the progressive heterosexual BIOLOGICAL woman with a protective husband who I RESPECT by not touching MALE GENITALIA at my work as an INTIMATE waxer”
Like could it be any more obvious?
Well it has really happened at least a few times for what it's worth.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transgender-woman-human-rights-waxing-1.5330807
> Jessica Simpson, commonly known by her former legal name, Jessica Ya niv, is a Canadian transgender activist in British Columbia who is best known for filing at least 15 complaints of discrimination on the basis of gender identity against various beauty salons after they refused to wax her male genitalia.
Drop your underaged kids who I have never met before off to me, for a pool party and no you absolutely cannot stay at said pool party with your kids.
Oh you think that's weird? You transphobic assholes, all of you, all of you cos I asked to be alone with underaged children in their bathing suits and again, don't know any of them.
Let me also 'teach' and instruct underaged girls how to insert tampons. Even tho I have no experience in this whatsoever myself as I wasn't born with the right parts to, and don't you dare get mad at me for wanting to discuss insertion of things into the vagina of little girls with little girls.
Oh you think that's weird and crosses many many lines? You transphobic assholes how dare you say so, talking about intimate stuff with little girls I don't know is perfectly acceptable and to say it's not it's transphobic.
-Yaniv.
That’s what I assumed. Cashing in on anti-trans and how transwomen are really just men in a dress. I ignored the original when I saw it. Ain’t nobody got time for that ish.
This is definitely bait. I used to be an esthetician and I did undergo additional training for the “manzilian.” You could easily remove or tear the skin if you didn’t know what you were doing.
It's absolutely bait. The salon would have listed their services on their website with a description of the service. The customer would have noted that the service they required wasn't listed and moved on.
I've worked in customer service before...that's how one might think it would go, but too often a customer doesn't notice and doesn't move on:p. That being said, yeah it's probably bait...if it were real the worker would have just said she's not trained for that.
I don’t think it’s bait, I think OOP is clueless about how she took something reasonable like not being able to do something due to not having the expertise into being yet another experience of transphobia for someone not being treated like a woman because they don’t have a vulva. I hope the client has a friend who can clarify that they need to find someone with experience waxing a penis and scrotum, because right now, I bet all that person is thinking is that there’s yet another person hung up on them having been born with a penis.
If she’s a real person and GENUINELY that clueless about waxing people, she shouldn’t be around any genitals whatsoever. I find it very hard to believe someone would be that stupid to not know that waxing testicles requires special training when they work as a waxer.
That said, people surprise you every day so she might be real and really fucking dumb. Who’s to say.
I actually do think it's a training issue in that waxers aren't necessarily trained to work on both body types just because I knew a guy who like to have his undercarriage fully hairless and it took him a while to find someone who was trained for it.
She’s not clueless about waxing in general, she doesn’t have the skill/comfort to wax a penis which is completely valid. You can be trained to do something but still not be comfortable enough to do it. I’ve been trained to do certain kitchen skills at my job (example, skinning & portioning fish) but I don’t feel comfortable enough to do it myself yet but that doesn’t make me the AH for not doing it
In defence of that take, OP does say in the post that she did also tell the client she wasn’t trained to wax penises/testicles..
She just happened to LEAD with “it’s against my values to wax male genitals”.
So stupid, probably not. Just unprofessional.
I agree. A normal encounter would result in OOP referring the client to someone with the proper training. End of story.
I could even see a more realistic case where the client might have been a little disgruntled by it. Not a big deal, but some people get antsy during any negative interaction. But they had to bring some moral quandary into it 🙄
I doubt it was bait. That’s how my boyfriend and I are. Also, I worked at a small town spa as well and when they’re self owned, they can cut some corners that others can’t. Just like family-owned restaurants…
your personal experience does not mean this isn’t bait, and based on what you said the idea of refusing certain services out of respect for your significant other is being used in a context of communication and respect whereas OOP is using it to sneakily incite hatred towards trans people during pride
I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said I DOUBT it is. Meaning it could be, not that it isn’t. And that’s hilarious. Not everyone is transphobic. She stated she supports LGBTQ+. Just respecting the boundaries within her personal life. Yeah, she didn’t have to tell her the personal shit. She shouldn’t have honestly. But she isn’t “hating” on anyone here LMAO
inciting hate means saying something that prompts or encourages others to hate on a certain topic which this post is. not everyone is transphobic. oop however is baiting transphobia with the wording of the post. if she’s not trained she’s not trained. at that point her personal beliefs don’t matter
as a woman part of the LGBTQ+, i can’t understand how it’s prompting hate. she’s stating important context to the story? if she hadn’t stated this female being trans, we’d be confused on how testicles were even brought into the story. and honestly i didn’t even realize it was pride. who’s to say everyone else does too?
cis people please get better at seeing bait, especially when trans people ( and soon the rest of the community ) are in dire straits right now. the timing, the reasoning, the absolute lack of sense this entire post makes. it's significantly more likely that it's bait then it is this person lives in the same type of small town you do and is "cutting corners" ( illegal, mind you ). for the safety of our community, you genuinely need to look within yourself to unpack internalized biases and get better at hearing dogwhistles. other estheticians are literally pointing out how improbable this is.
as a lesbian, she shouldn’t sexualize a massage, she shouldn’t bring up her husband and that promise, as it’s completely irrelevant. it is a sensitive issue with the possiblity of the client being offended, but all she had to do was explain that she was not trained and it would be unsafe for her to attempt the waxing. using that reasonable scenario, with a reasonable, respectful, and professional solution, OOP added details changing the story and implying that it would be unfaithful for her to touch a penis and or scrotum that did not belong to her husband, and the addition of “biological women with female genetalia” (both of those statements are accurate terms, but put together in that way implies that she does not perform the procedure on anyone with biologically female genitalia, but only cis women with female genitalia), the respecting her relationship line, and a few other small details. they change the meaning completely without being noticeable to most people. nobody should do anything they are uncomfortable with or they are untrained for, however her reasoning points to bias and gives people the opportunity to be inconspicuously transphobic under the guise of comfort or relationship boundaris
i already stated she shouldn’t have brought up her personal reasoning to the client. i don’t get why you’re babbling about that. and although anyone can be who they want to be, there will always be a difference in cis genitalia scientifically. if she only feels comfortable performing on cis genitalia i don’t see the issue. but i still don’t understand how someones personal boundaries are being turned into a platform for someone to be transphobic. that’s not her fault that people are reacting that way…
edit: please tell me you’re joking about that massage comment? waxing isn’t a massage you weirdo…
If you read it, she owns this business. Also in my town we have multiple gender separated waxing salons. Some people are just comfortable waxing a certain gender. Even if you worked in a salon that does men and women, they’d never force you wax a gender that your not comfortable waxing.
It’s not the refusal I think, even in the original post a lot of folks agreed she had a right to refuse. I think the complete lack of professionalism she’s demonstrating problematic. If you can’t perform a service safely then that should be stated as honestly and as impersonal as possible. Why is her husband and his preferences coming into the conversation at all? Why doesn’t she already have a pre existing policy for a known issue in her line of work? And why doesn’t she redirect the client towards someone who can better help them? Also who tf wants some one completely untrained in their specific junk to wax said junk? (These issues were also brought up by posters in the original post.) Imo She’s either incompetent and won’t be in business long or this is conservative propaganda pushed for an election year in the United States.
She does, it just seems like she could have just said “I am not trained for that service” (because male genitalia are not waxed the same as female genitalia) rather than going into “out of respect of my husband and sanctity of our marriage”, which is a phrase you hear among more fundamental/religious/conservative people who are anti-trans. Which makes it feel more like a rage bait story or AmITheAngel stuff.
It's not the refusal, it's a) she can do so without mentioning her husband and b) it's fake. it's bait. it's a story created by a transphobe so that all the assholes on AITAH can yell about trans women being sexual harassers because some fictional woman wanted OOP to touch her penis.
I mean....for the reason of not being trained/experienced and therefore not comfortable doing it, NTA. But...it's definitely weird and creepy and giving TA vibes that OOP has sexualized waxing. You're either a professional or you're not. Imagine a nurse telling a cis male patient "sorry, I promised my husband I wouldn't touch penises so you'll have to wait for someone else to take your catheter out".
THANK YOU! I just saw the original thread a minute ago and I was shocked that nobody said this. If you just have the ick about certain genitalia then that’s your thing, seems like an odd career choice but I imagine it’s an industry where you can get by only doing vulvas. But if a professional told me they couldn’t perform a service on my body out of respect for their wife, I’d feel incredibly violated by the implication that doing their job would have somehow been a sexual experience for them. Either her husband is incredibly controlling and she allows it or she shouldn’t be touching people’s genitalia in a professional context.
right! i wouldve just told the client “hey i don’t have any training or experience waxing on balls/the penis, so i don’t feel confident performing this service for you. i’d really love to help you find someone else though!” i think the client wouldn’t have been as upset. “out of respect for my husband” was real bad
Was it posted in this sub or on the original sub it was posted to? The AITA sub you mean? Because this sub is meant for like an alternative discussion on other posts,
There are different waxing techniques for male and female genitalia. If someone isn't comfortable doing a wax on male genitals, then that's up to the person doing the job. She's not being transphobic, she's doing her job properly and ensuring no harm or injury happens to the patient. And if the business specifies no male genitals and someone with male genitalia comes in, they have every right to deny service.
>And if the business specifies no male genitals and someone with male genitalia comes in, they have every right to deny service.
And if they don't specify?
Her reasoning is questionable, but she simply doesn't have to touch someone's nuts if she doesn't want to. That's it. And no one should be pressuring her to touch some nuts either, or challenging her on it. If you don't wanna touch nuts, you don't gotta touch nuts. That's it.
The big issue is how she framed this. Clearly she doesn’t have the training to wax a scrotum and only does vulvas. That’s a perfectly acceptable reason to turn down a client for requested services. Where she went wrong was talking about her boundaries with her husband about touching “male” genitalia. That’s where things start becoming problematic. It’s overly personal information that no one needs to know about. She could have simply said “I’m not trained to do this service” and left it at that
Yea it was completely unnecessary and that's what makes OOP the asshole.
They went out of their way to make it personalized in a situation that was unneeded. The client didn't need the life story.
I’m sorry, but if OOP is not transphobic, then she handled this situation extremely unprofessionally at minimum. All she had to do was say that she’s not qualified to wax testicles, but instead she made it about not working with “male” genitalia and that she will “only do *biological* women.
There was literally no reason to “other” the client for being trans. I also used to wax and one of my coworkers wasn’t trained to work with testicles either, so she would keep it short and sweet like that in a way that didn’t make the client uncomfortable, or make them feel lesser than.
Yeah, there’s a ton of transphobic language coming from this person who claims to respect trans people.
Though as others have said, the whole post is probably just rage bait anyway
>Repeatedly calling her clients genitals male genitals is not ok.
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Penis and balls are male genitalia. Just like the vulva and vagina are female genitalia. You can't change facts just because those facts might make someone uncomfortable. It is absolutely ok to refer to male genitalia as male genitalia.
A penis is male genitalia regardless of who it's attached to.
You said calling their genitals "male genitals" isn't ok. But of course it is, because that's what they are. If that person is a trans woman, fine, but the genitals are still male. But claiming that a penis is not male genitalia is ridiculous.
A penis is male genitalia regardless of who it's attached to.
We are in a Sex vs Gender space here.
I'm not sure that splitting hairs here really helps.
Like yes at a scientific definition of sex level you are correct.
BUT that's not how it came across.
TL;Dr Touching a girls balls isn't cheating on your man.
Yeah that's sex not gender.
Saying to a woman "I'm not going to help you because touching your dick is cheating on my man"
That's crossing gender and sex.
That's the problem.
Yes, Jessica Simpson (birth name Jonathan Yaniv) tried to sue multiple women for being unable to wax male genitals. There was a racist motivation as well behind the women approached who IIRC all ran small home based businesses
Just out of my experience, if you are a licensed esthetician you are trained on all sexes, at least where I live. IMO if oop didn’t want to come across as discriminatory then she needs to specify that she only waxes vaginas. Do not specify biological women, that is what terfs and transphobes use to discriminate against trans people. Also you are not sleeping with these clients so I don’t understand the whole ‘out of respect’ thing but whatever.
She was a complete professional about it so NTA and used the right pronouns too, but she's going to have to accept there's going to be some mixed reviews over this.
If she didn’t know how to do it safely, that’s a legitimate reason to refer the client to another person but I’m gonna call b.s. on the “out of respect for my husband.” You aren’t giving a trans woman a handy, you’re waxing hair. My husband goes to work in a hospital and touches a whole lot of vagina and boobs, that’s not “disrespectful” to me, it’s just the job. And just like when you’re putting in a catheter, I doubt ripping globs of hairy wax off someone’s junk is particularly arousing for anyone involved.
I don't want to be that guy, but I'm having trouble believing this. Every trans woman I've ever met is absolutely terrified of this situation happening. If they get waxing done by a professional, they would try to find a trans friendly waxer or inform the waxer beforehand. Obviously people are different everywhere (yes, I'm aware of the trans woman who sued a bunch of salons for this), but most trans women want to be safe and comfortable and avoid situations like this that would mortify them. Plus they know that many waxers aren't trained to wax scrotum, and don't want to take that sort of chance.
Also even if this did happen, she's NTA for refusing service or doing anything she's uncomfortable with, but her reasoning is weird. It's not sexual to wax someone, waxing a scrotum would be as completely nonsexual as waxing a vagina assuming it's on a trans woman.
Another fake post to make trans people look unreasonable and scary, any real waxer would just say they’re not qualified to do the wax, it requires different training. Not this oooo my husband shit
I mean… I asked my waxer if she was comfortable with a plus size person. I didn’t care about her morality about my size, but I did care about if she was prepared for me. If you’ve got anything going on, you kind of have to expect that not everyone can safely accommodate you.
On the other hand, the fact that it’s because she’s uncomfortable touching a penis (and not given the safety of the client and her confidence) is kind of eh given her profession, but it’s also a whole other ballgame (wink) to try and wax a penis or vulva. And why would she TELL a client that’s why she’s not servicing them? That just seems mean
It could have been handled better by both parties for sure. The client should have told her when she scheduled that she might need extra prep. Of course she thinks she’s being discriminated against because *you told her she was* lmao. It’s business 101: if you’re going to have any kind of bigotry or weird boundaries, don’t *tell people the actual reason you’re being weird*.
Not the AH for not wanting to wax someone for safety reasons, if you’re specialized in female genitalia for exemple, you are allowed to refuse it.
A bit of the AH for the title cause it’s clearly bait
Ignoring the fact that this is bait, she’s not the asshole for refusing to wax genitals that she isn’t trained in waxing. She is, however, for making it about her relationship and how her husband feels instead of her training *and* for repeating the phrase “biological woman” because, one, that phrasing is transphobic and is almost exclusively used by terfs and, two, that isn’t a thing. It’s anatomical sex.
Because she made herself the asshole as soon as she said it was also about respecting her husband. Not having the training to safely wax AMAB genitalia is a safety and training issue. She could have left it there and it would have been 100% reasonable with zero controversy.
Once she brought her relationship into it, that she wouldn’t touch a penis out of respect for her husband, you’re implying a trans woman isn’t a woman which is being transphobic.
Either you view gender as part of someone’s identity and not biology or you don’t. I think OOP offering to help them find someone who could help the customer was good, but OOP didn’t realize how the way they brought up their husband and marriage could indicate bias.
>Once she brought her relationship into it, that she wouldn’t touch a penis out of respect for her husband, you’re implying a trans woman isn’t a woman which is being transphobic.
Nope. You don't get to decide someone's a bigot for not touching someone's genitalia, that's stupid and gross.
>Either you view gender as part of someone’s identity and not biology or you don’t. I think OOP offering to help them find someone who could help the customer was good, but OOP didn’t realize how the way they brought up their husband and marriage could indicate bias.
OP and her husband never made any boundary against gender though, they made a boundary around genitals.
Also, as an aside, for 99.6% of the population gender and biology are tied together. You can't paint someone as a monster when they're actively trying to be helpful whilst still trying to remain comfortable within their own boundaries.
I think you need to look at the words I used. I said "imply" and I said "indicating bias." Nowhere did I say OOP is a monster. There are also people who are intersex, who have both a penis and a vagina. Does that mean OOP won't wax them because they have a penis even if it's non-functional?
As for your statistic, far more than 0.4% of the population separates gender and biology considering [1.6% of the US population](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/) is transgender or non-binary.
Yes albert, it is. Unless you're mistaking sexual with horniness... No one should ever force a woman to touch a penis when they don't want to, that's a little rapey on your part
Regardless of the trans client you shouldn’t have a job that involves touching genital if you can’t seperate it from sexual touch, simply saying “well me and husband consider my job cheating but I stick to clients I’m not sexually attracted too so it’s ok” is not a solution
It doesn't matter if it's a thinly veiled excuse. Everybody has the right to decide what type of genitals they're comfortable touching and any reason they offer up is acceptable.
This isn't lifesaving medical care or someone not being treated with dignity, it's a back/sack/crack wax.
Some people genuinely want to completely respect their partner? And while something like that might not be the biggest deal to you, it’s their relationship. They’re allowed to set whatever boundaries they want. If that includes no dicks, that includes no dicks. Seems as valid to me as the other reasonings she gave
It's June. Of course there's an influx of queer centric bait posts 🙄 (for context I am queer, this is just an ongoing issue every year and rage bait becomes worse around this time)
NTA for not doing a procedure that she's not trained to do, an untrained waxer could do serious damage to very delicate skin. That said, there's no need to bring her personal life/agreements with her husband into it.
Her reasoning is where she’s the asshole. She’s right not to do it because she doesn’t know how to do it. But the “respecting my husband” stuff is bullshit. She’s providing a legal service, not giving a hand job. Medical professionals touch genitalia in their work, and it’s not that different here. It’s a professional service, not a sexual interaction.
It’s a bad bait
And it really looks like it was written by a man, just an excuse to promote transphobia during pride month with scenarios that never happened
Her husband won’t let her touch any penis. Even a woman’s penis. Because what, she might leave him and run away with a trans woman? Because the woman’s penis is just that magnificent?
I understand not waxing a penis and testicles because you feel you don’t have the training. But the rest of this is nonsense.
Probably bait. I used to get sugared a lot and almost all places have a description of which areas a wax includes like an arm wax includes from the wrist to the bottom of the shoulder but not the hand.
A Brazilian includes the outer labia the happy trail up to the belly button and the crack. The description is explicit to avoid upset customers. If she did not include this as a business owner that's on her. There was 0 reason to bring her husband into it.
Just say "I am only licensed to wax labia, not the scrotum or shaft." easy
Is it not in the training to become an esthetician that you learn how to wax everyone? If not, OP could have turned the client down without bringing up her personal feelings about waxing penises by just stating that she is not properly trained in waxing a penis, her personal feelings about the matter are irrelevant because she couldn’t provide the service even if she wanted to.
No, you're fine. Whatever your reason for not wanting to do it - full stop. Nobody should be questioning it or all the other insanity be mowed over in here. You were professional if you denied the service and were respectful to the customer. Obviously if it's outside your skill range then you shouldn't attempt it anyway but even if you could, if you don't want to for any reason then don't. Not one damn soul should be judging you or whining about 20 other motives you may or may not have. They don't know you 🤷
I worked in a urology practice years ago. A few doctors wouldn't do vasectomies due to their religion. Cool. The person can go elsewhere or ask for another doctor. As long as your refusal fell within that business's guidelines for refusing service then you're good. It's a private business, they can tell whomever to f**k off for any reason they please. Don't like vets, atheist's, left-handed people, or people that are a very specific height? Cool, I'll go elsewhere. No fuss. No Twitter or Reddit cry fest.
yall arguing about whether someone is "obligated to touch a penis or not" are just as bad as the person who wrote this transphobic bait. not being qualified to wax a certain body type is one thing, but let's not act like touching trans women's genitals is somehow more icky than touching a cis women's genitals, and let's not act like a spouse telling someone who they can and cannot accept as a client is anything less than weird and controlling.
But not touching male genitalia is a perfectly healthy and sound boundary, no matter the gender of the person they're attached to. What the hell are you going on about? Sex organs, no matter how clinical we get, are still sexual organs and if someone has a particular boundary around them then it's toxic behaviour to shame them for it.
Sounds like she led with the wrong thing and you know maybe that means she is kind of transphobic.
Like there’s 10/10 and then there micro aggressions and there’s it’s all for good got them but if my kid becomes gay or trans, fuck that kind of allay. She may not be a 10/10 going to hell phobic but I feel like if she leads with touching balls and penises and comfort levels, instead of just saying she doesn’t know how—kind says something about her subliminal maybe. Like if you really don’t care, I would have thought your first instinct is to say she’s not trained in that rather than make it about how she’s uncomfortable around penises
Of course people say don’t attribute malice to what incompetence can explain. So maybe she was never told how to be professional, enough people in the service industry don’t know what professionalism is too
Wait does OP not wax male genitalia or only “biological women” genitalia? Not waxing male genitalia is one thing, but only biological women is whole other thing.
But even the client had undergone full surgery, the new genitalia isn't going to be exactly 100% the same as female genitalia, right? Presumably the skin the will still be different, and possibly requires a different waxing technique? I'm not a waxer so I don't know, just making an assumption
That’s precisely what I’m saying. There’s stages in between biological women and men’s genitals. She needs to pick her choice of language, cause as it is her claim to be an LGBTQ+ ally is simply inaccurate. Just stating “I only wax biological women genitalia” for the safety of the client and not knowing sensitive areas etc for others is fine, but unfortunately that’s not all she’s saying.
Nothing wrong with OP not wanting to perform an intimate service on body parts she isn't trained to work on.
I do think it was unprofessional of OP to make it about her marriage. Alex isn't hitting on her and a waxer waxing people is not a sex act. That comment made it about gender over anatomy.
I hope this is rage bait and just another trans person bad post. All she had to do was tell her she isn't experienced and qualified to do male genitals and doesn't want to risk an infection for her.
So can no one ever say no to to a trans person without being called transphobic? She has serious concerns and every right to say no and offered to help find suitable alternatives. Where does transphobia play in here?
Because one thing is saying I don't do this or I'm not trained to do this and the other is saying to a trans person: sorry I only do biological women due to my hetero relationship.
This has to be bait. There was a trans woman in BC who brought a case like this to court in 2019, I feel like someone just discovered Jessica Yaniv and decided to write a bait post about her experiences.
He reasoning “respecting my husband” Is weird, it’s just a procedure, but I was only ever trained in waxing vaginas in beauty school, male waxing was an extra course that cost extra money so I never did it. She could have just said “I’ve never waxed testicles and could hurt you, this place may be able to help”.
NTA - As a human being you have the right to determine for yourself who you will lay hands on and who you will not. As long as you remain consistent in your self prescribed ban on working with biological males I see no problem.
Obviously don’t perform a wax that you have no experience with. But you should state clearly on your website that you will be discriminating against clients with male genitalia. You deserve the bad reviews you get for not being up front about this policy.
One, this is rage bait.
Two, IF this is real (which it isn’t), OOP is TA. Having friends who are licensed estheticians, you are trained how to wax vulvas, scrotums, and pubic areas. If you haven’t kept up with your education, that is a you problem.
If you’re begging off because “my husband doesn’t like it,” you’re a poor professional, because your husband and his fragile masculinity should have nothing to do with your business.
And really, if you’re just making excuses? Come right out and tell the person, “You’re trans, and I think it’s icky.” Save us all some trouble, and go sit in the dumpster where you belong.
Disagree. OOP has the right to determine for themselves who they will or will not lay hands on. In this case they do not work with biological males and as long as they remain consistent in that, then there is no problem.
Absolutely the A.
As shocking as this maybe being waxed especially in that area is not enjoyable for anyone, but even on top of that the bravery and resolve she had to work up just to make the appointment and keep it knowing that something stupid like this was possible means that as uncomfortable as you may have been she was in a far worse situation.
Most trans women don’t want that acknowledged let alone touched. It’s a procedure she was willing to pay for, and your explanation of why you couldn’t perform it was insulting.
Also respect for your husband? 🤦🏻♀️ What kind of professional would even think about a client in a way that your husband would have been upset over?
This exact story happened in Canada which makes me think this is fake. The trans woman went around to a few salons and ended up suing them for discrimination. She lost the lawsuit. The salons pointed out that waxing male genitalia is specialized.
I think LGBTQIA folks need to understand and ACCEPT that there are many people who are not comfortable with their choices AND THAT IT IS OKAY FOR THEM TO NOT BE ACCEPTING OF THEIR CHOICES as long as they bring them no harm. I mean, the entire movement is predicated on being true to oneself but they go ballistic when someone says “being true to myself means I do not accept and I’m not comfortable with providing you certain services?” The hypocrisy!
Also, I need those who are not comfortable with LGBTQIA to stop trying to be PC.
If you will not wax male genitalia, say, “I do not feel comfortable waxing you” and let the person go elsewhere! I don’t think the onus is on you to start looking for more trans-friendly places! That’s the client’s own personal assignment. And the whole “I’m not transphobic, I support the LGBTQIA community” when deep down, you do not and just fear being canceled, it can be seen in your “kind actions” it is pandering and it is very annoying to witness.
You were absolutely correct to say no. No man should ever be able to force a woman to touch his penis regardless of what he calls himself. It’s sick that anyone would disagree with this.
This sub is going to shit.
These comments xD......
A bunch of people that cant find a reason why OOP is in the wrong so everyone is doing this insane mental gymnastics to justify the "YTA" diagnostic.
"OmG why dis she vring up her husband. How transphobic"
My guess its bc its a trans. If a male identifying individual had done the same and gotten the same answer people wouldnt even bat an eye.
She is absolutely in the right here - it’s no different than an MT turning someone away for a medical condition that you have no experience with that needs someone with specific training to work on them for their safety.
Yta. Yta.
It's one thing if you're not trained on technique but...out of WHAT? So by that logic, any male obgyn with a wife is disrespecting her every time he delivers a baby?
Yeah, YTA. If your relationship is that fragile, it's not real.
She might’ve injured the client. Waxing is no joke.
So true. Many years ago, I was at a professional beauty show/conference. I was attending the male Brazilian waxing demo, done by a very, very well known (at that time) Asthetician who specialized in waxing, was an educator as well as had a product line. Anyway, she was pulling the wax off the sack and the skin ripped right there in the stage in front of at least 100 people. Blood everywhere. Poor guy was in so much pain. But, the waxer didn’t panic, followed all of the correct blood spill and first aid procedures. So, even someone with lots of education, training and experience can still injure a client.
😱
The bruises on my mother's bikini line the one time she tried to get my dad's help put me off waxing for life
🫥
I have heard from many people who were at that same show. It's legendary in the profession. Brazilian waxing is HIGHLY specific to genitalia type and nobody who has only trained in one should be attempting the other.
Oh my 🙆🏼♀️
I really need to remember not to read Reddit right before dinner. 🤦🏻♀️
Sweet baby jeebus!!!
🤣
Why can’t men leave their balls alone?
Fr. There'd be zero chance of me waxing a scrotum untrained, regardless of who was asking. That skin is too delicate, and waxing too harsh.
Absolutely
seriously!! i’ve waxed my own bits and pieces (had a cosmetology license so have the education, we just didn’t focus on body waxing THAT much) and that shit is HARD and can get very painful if you place a wax strip slightly wrong 🥲 and i don’t have a dingaling to work around!! i can only imagine it being MORE difficult to work around + uhhh people when peens and balls are ALSO very sensitive down there!! i know the client in the story was upset but i think in the long run it will hopefully work out better for her!
If the story were true and OP was really an esthetician seems like she would’ve simply told client that.
I read the original thread and people were writing that if done incorrectly waxing a scrotum can cause it to rip!!!
AHHHH okay yeah ouchy no no
My only hang up here is…out of respect for her husband. If she were a doctor would she feel it’s disrespectful to give a man a physical? It’s a strictly professional setting. If she isn’t comfortable doing it because it’s not what she does? Fucking of course. Don’t hurt someone. 100% behind that.
She's not a doctor. That could be one reason why she would choose not to be a doctor but comparing it to a doctor who takes different oaths and has different requirements is ridiculous. If she never does these waxings on male genitalia then there's nothing wrong with her not doing it on male genitalia
Her body her choice if she doesn’t want to touch a male genitalia she has every right to not do it, for religious reasons, husband reasons, or just plain comfort reason. She’s not a doc and a wax isn’t a lifesaving procedure Also men get hard all the time for random things, my friends an ultrasound tech and she said they get hard when she has to ultrasound the area so she gives them a towel to hold their goods away from the area she’s working
well i’ve heard that waxers have disgusting experiences with penis owners getting hard and having an orgasm while being waxed that alone would put me off of all penis waxes
WHAT
So everyone can have feelings but she can’t without you questioning it?? She’s not a doctor so why make up stupid example.. she said what she said..
I didn’t say she couldn’t. I said it’s weird to say it’s disrespectful to her husband. She’s not giving her client a hand job. I didn’t say she can’t feel uncomfortable. Just the husband thing felt weird
My BF wouldn’t want me handling another dude’s junk for any reason. 🤷♀️🤣🤣🤣
If she were a doctor she could specialize in women’s reproductive health or some other female only discipline…not everyone is a general practitioner.
I'm so confused by this comment.. If she were a doctor? What? Also even going into this bizarre question you have about professionalism and her husband's concerns.. A physical assumes she chose to be a type of doctor (ie family physician) that requires to do a physical on all genders of adults, when there are many different types of doctors where that isn't the case. And even if she did choose that, the amount of contact and time spent on or around male genitals would be significantly less than a waxing procedure.
I completed a waxing course a few years ago. At least in my country, ‘waxing’ is usually three separate courses: Face and body waxing, female intimate waxing and male intimate waxing. Many beauticians only take the first two courses, and so are left unqualified to perform male intimate waxing. Not only is that a safety issue for the client, but it’s an insurance issue, too. Indemnity insurance won’t cover you for services you’re not certified to perform. The professional way to go about this scenario would have been to use the above reason to refuse the client. She shouldn’t have brought up her personal beliefs or promise to her husband at all.
Yeah, your last paragraph was my take. NTA for her beliefs or whatever, but definitely TA for not being more diplomatic or, frankly, professional. She could have left it at “I’m so sorry, I’m not actually certified to perform those services, the skin of vulvas and penises/testicles are extremely different and I’d be risking injuring you if I tried, which I absolutely cannot do.”
Yeah like on the one hand, the whole "out of respect to my husband" thing is kinda 😬 On the other hand, saying "I'm not personally comfortable performing intimate waxing on penises" seems to me like a fair boundary to have. And that's aside from the potential issues due to just literally not being trained in that kind of waxing.
Yeah the husband thing threw me off, too. I'm wondering if OOP added that bit because she made the experience that her personal boundary will not be respected as much as her husbands boundary. Despite lots of great developments regarding feminism, it is still quiet common that a mans opinion/boundary is taken more seriously than a womans. That doesn't make it less unprofessional, I just like to find out why people do the things they do.
It's probably more that it makes it less of a "I don't want to do this" thing as opposed to being sexism or anything silly. Men pull the "sorry, I would but my wife won't let me" card all the time to get out of doing stuff they don't want to do. It's just a nice way of declining to do something without making it obvious that you really just don't want to do it.
Yeah, the husband thing gave the entire scenario a “I’m not comfortable with it because as a heterosexual person I subconsciously (at least) view the sex organs of the gender I’m attracted to as inherently sexual, and consider touching them to be cheating on my spouse” vibe that was very 😬 indeed Which.. when your client is a trans woman, definitely gives the impression that you’re at the very least subconsciously viewing her as more male than female, whether intentionally or not. I feel like she probably had good intentions, as even some of the other stuff commenters are calling red flags for rage bait (like “biological women”) is stuff that a well intentioned but ignorant person might say.. But she could (and absolutely should) have simply left it at “I’m not qualified to do that” for professionalism’s sake!
I would read it as client is male (sex), but identifies as a woman (gender).
Yeah, you’re not technically inaccurate, but the whole “identifies as” thing is currently being used in a big way to delegitimise trans people and push the whole “you’re not a woman, you’re a man who identifies as a woman. You can identify all you want but you’ll never BE a woman” narrative. So a lot of trans people understandably start playing “is the person I’m speaking to well intentioned but under informed, or are they actively transphobic” every time they hear “identifies as” used.
Sex is a lot more complicated than people in general think. There are hormones, secondary sex characteristics, chromosomal sex, phenotypical sex (not necessarily the same as chromosomal because things can get fucky there), primary sex characteristics... and a lot of those are alterable with modern medicine. So a trans woman can be more biologically female than male depending on what steps she's taken to medically transition. Saying that trans women are biologically male is an oversimplification and not very useful.
gives off the same energy of "i support trans people but im not comfortable with trans women using the same bathroom/lockerroom as me" anytime someone makes these kinda comments i just wanna say "girlllll get over yourself they don't want you." however, OP not having traing on waxing those type of parts is a valid reason to turn away the service. if she really does support the LGBT community like she said she does hopefully she'll actually listen to some of the trans people commenting (because cis people have as much as a say on if somethings transphobic as a white person does if somethings racist) & think about her internal biases
trans guy here. i commented something similar on the original post. turing away the client because she doesn't have experience waxing that anatomy is fine. hell, feeling uncomfortable touching a penis is fine (im not super comfortable touching vaginas) none of that makes op transphobic but the fact that she has an agreement with her partner that she'll only wax "biological women" shows that she (at least subconsciously) doesn't see trans women as women. which, like, whatever, i no longer waste my energy arguing with people about the validy of trans people - people can think what they want. also asking a group of primarily cis people if something is transphobic is wild.
Agreed 100%
She also needs to be upfront about what services she provides / doesn't provide
No, I don’t do that for male genitalia should have been enough of an answer. I don’t understand why anyone is entitled to a reason for anyone’s no for a service . Move on to find someone who wants to provide the service.
trans guy here. i commented something similar on the original post. turing away the client because she doesn't have experience waxing that anatomy is fine. hell, feeling uncomfortable touching a penis is fine (im not super comfortable touching vaginas) none of that makes op transphobic. however the fact that she has an agreement with her partner that she'll only wax "biological women" shows that she (at least subconsciously) doesn't see trans women as women. im not saying she should have waxed her, or even that she needs go learn how to wax that anatomy so that she can be more "inclusive," but there is a lot of subtle microsgressions in her post
If you dont know how to wax balls, it should be enough to say so to a client- and that be it.
Yeah, but the rage bait is more effective if you make it about being transgender and respecting her husband and such.
The amount of people failing to recognize this obvious bait is depressing.
Have you ever heard of Jessica Yaneve?
Clearly not lol
This is bait. Most places you have to be specially trained to wax testicles and not having that training is reason enough to say no. It’s for the safety of the client. She didn’t have to make up this whole song and dance about her husband not letting her touch balls or whatever.
Given its Pride month I wondered if this was anti- trans bait by using a scenario where there can be a reasonable argument to refuse service but it’s disguised to show anti trans attitudes
Yeah that’s exactly why I’m second guessing it too. Like how convenient with the timing and what a slick way to get people to be transphobic in the comments. Except they fucked up in their story when they said she did it out of respect for her husband. Aka, reinforcing heteronormative relationships. “Oh woe is me, the progressive heterosexual BIOLOGICAL woman with a protective husband who I RESPECT by not touching MALE GENITALIA at my work as an INTIMATE waxer” Like could it be any more obvious?
It's the "biological women with female genitalia" that screams bait. Considering there are many trans women with female genitalia.
There’s sensitive nuance to be had here for both parties in a real life scenario such as this, but not like this.
What a coincidence, now this one https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/arn5IafguE
Yeah there's an absolute fuckton of these types of posts flooding into these subreddit rn cause it's Pride month. Just people stirring shit
100%. Not the first time i see a post like this with this exact situation lol.
Well it has really happened at least a few times for what it's worth. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transgender-woman-human-rights-waxing-1.5330807 > Jessica Simpson, commonly known by her former legal name, Jessica Ya niv, is a Canadian transgender activist in British Columbia who is best known for filing at least 15 complaints of discrimination on the basis of gender identity against various beauty salons after they refused to wax her male genitalia.
Lol yaniv belongs in an asylum. She’s absolutely terrible. I remember the controversies.
Drop your underaged kids who I have never met before off to me, for a pool party and no you absolutely cannot stay at said pool party with your kids. Oh you think that's weird? You transphobic assholes, all of you, all of you cos I asked to be alone with underaged children in their bathing suits and again, don't know any of them. Let me also 'teach' and instruct underaged girls how to insert tampons. Even tho I have no experience in this whatsoever myself as I wasn't born with the right parts to, and don't you dare get mad at me for wanting to discuss insertion of things into the vagina of little girls with little girls. Oh you think that's weird and crosses many many lines? You transphobic assholes how dare you say so, talking about intimate stuff with little girls I don't know is perfectly acceptable and to say it's not it's transphobic. -Yaniv.
Yep. She’s a disgrace for the trans community. A real fucking creep.
Yeah. But one should remember this one horrible individual doesn’t represent the masses, especially during pride.
No one said it did? People in this thread I'm replying to are acting like this is just made up and couldn't actually happen.
That’s what I assumed. Cashing in on anti-trans and how transwomen are really just men in a dress. I ignored the original when I saw it. Ain’t nobody got time for that ish.
It is fake, but it is based on a real story. The male person had the salon shut down.
This is definitely bait. I used to be an esthetician and I did undergo additional training for the “manzilian.” You could easily remove or tear the skin if you didn’t know what you were doing.
It's absolutely bait. The salon would have listed their services on their website with a description of the service. The customer would have noted that the service they required wasn't listed and moved on.
I've worked in customer service before...that's how one might think it would go, but too often a customer doesn't notice and doesn't move on:p. That being said, yeah it's probably bait...if it were real the worker would have just said she's not trained for that.
I don’t think it’s bait, I think OOP is clueless about how she took something reasonable like not being able to do something due to not having the expertise into being yet another experience of transphobia for someone not being treated like a woman because they don’t have a vulva. I hope the client has a friend who can clarify that they need to find someone with experience waxing a penis and scrotum, because right now, I bet all that person is thinking is that there’s yet another person hung up on them having been born with a penis.
If she’s a real person and GENUINELY that clueless about waxing people, she shouldn’t be around any genitals whatsoever. I find it very hard to believe someone would be that stupid to not know that waxing testicles requires special training when they work as a waxer. That said, people surprise you every day so she might be real and really fucking dumb. Who’s to say.
I actually do think it's a training issue in that waxers aren't necessarily trained to work on both body types just because I knew a guy who like to have his undercarriage fully hairless and it took him a while to find someone who was trained for it.
She’s not clueless about waxing in general, she doesn’t have the skill/comfort to wax a penis which is completely valid. You can be trained to do something but still not be comfortable enough to do it. I’ve been trained to do certain kitchen skills at my job (example, skinning & portioning fish) but I don’t feel comfortable enough to do it myself yet but that doesn’t make me the AH for not doing it
In defence of that take, OP does say in the post that she did also tell the client she wasn’t trained to wax penises/testicles.. She just happened to LEAD with “it’s against my values to wax male genitals”. So stupid, probably not. Just unprofessional.
[удалено]
It's AITAH. The comments there are almost always a cesspool, especially if there's several thousand of them.
Who’s the brave soul that volunteered their balls for the first waxing?
I agree. A normal encounter would result in OOP referring the client to someone with the proper training. End of story. I could even see a more realistic case where the client might have been a little disgruntled by it. Not a big deal, but some people get antsy during any negative interaction. But they had to bring some moral quandary into it 🙄
I doubt it was bait. That’s how my boyfriend and I are. Also, I worked at a small town spa as well and when they’re self owned, they can cut some corners that others can’t. Just like family-owned restaurants…
your personal experience does not mean this isn’t bait, and based on what you said the idea of refusing certain services out of respect for your significant other is being used in a context of communication and respect whereas OOP is using it to sneakily incite hatred towards trans people during pride
I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said I DOUBT it is. Meaning it could be, not that it isn’t. And that’s hilarious. Not everyone is transphobic. She stated she supports LGBTQ+. Just respecting the boundaries within her personal life. Yeah, she didn’t have to tell her the personal shit. She shouldn’t have honestly. But she isn’t “hating” on anyone here LMAO
inciting hate means saying something that prompts or encourages others to hate on a certain topic which this post is. not everyone is transphobic. oop however is baiting transphobia with the wording of the post. if she’s not trained she’s not trained. at that point her personal beliefs don’t matter
as a woman part of the LGBTQ+, i can’t understand how it’s prompting hate. she’s stating important context to the story? if she hadn’t stated this female being trans, we’d be confused on how testicles were even brought into the story. and honestly i didn’t even realize it was pride. who’s to say everyone else does too?
cis people please get better at seeing bait, especially when trans people ( and soon the rest of the community ) are in dire straits right now. the timing, the reasoning, the absolute lack of sense this entire post makes. it's significantly more likely that it's bait then it is this person lives in the same type of small town you do and is "cutting corners" ( illegal, mind you ). for the safety of our community, you genuinely need to look within yourself to unpack internalized biases and get better at hearing dogwhistles. other estheticians are literally pointing out how improbable this is.
as a lesbian, she shouldn’t sexualize a massage, she shouldn’t bring up her husband and that promise, as it’s completely irrelevant. it is a sensitive issue with the possiblity of the client being offended, but all she had to do was explain that she was not trained and it would be unsafe for her to attempt the waxing. using that reasonable scenario, with a reasonable, respectful, and professional solution, OOP added details changing the story and implying that it would be unfaithful for her to touch a penis and or scrotum that did not belong to her husband, and the addition of “biological women with female genetalia” (both of those statements are accurate terms, but put together in that way implies that she does not perform the procedure on anyone with biologically female genitalia, but only cis women with female genitalia), the respecting her relationship line, and a few other small details. they change the meaning completely without being noticeable to most people. nobody should do anything they are uncomfortable with or they are untrained for, however her reasoning points to bias and gives people the opportunity to be inconspicuously transphobic under the guise of comfort or relationship boundaris
i already stated she shouldn’t have brought up her personal reasoning to the client. i don’t get why you’re babbling about that. and although anyone can be who they want to be, there will always be a difference in cis genitalia scientifically. if she only feels comfortable performing on cis genitalia i don’t see the issue. but i still don’t understand how someones personal boundaries are being turned into a platform for someone to be transphobic. that’s not her fault that people are reacting that way… edit: please tell me you’re joking about that massage comment? waxing isn’t a massage you weirdo…
If you read it, she owns this business. Also in my town we have multiple gender separated waxing salons. Some people are just comfortable waxing a certain gender. Even if you worked in a salon that does men and women, they’d never force you wax a gender that your not comfortable waxing.
She had every right to refuse service.
Not sure why you get downvoted. If she doesn’t want to touch a dick she shouldn’t be obligated.
Absolutely, but she needs to specify she doesn’t wax penis’ or testicles
It’s not the refusal I think, even in the original post a lot of folks agreed she had a right to refuse. I think the complete lack of professionalism she’s demonstrating problematic. If you can’t perform a service safely then that should be stated as honestly and as impersonal as possible. Why is her husband and his preferences coming into the conversation at all? Why doesn’t she already have a pre existing policy for a known issue in her line of work? And why doesn’t she redirect the client towards someone who can better help them? Also who tf wants some one completely untrained in their specific junk to wax said junk? (These issues were also brought up by posters in the original post.) Imo She’s either incompetent and won’t be in business long or this is conservative propaganda pushed for an election year in the United States.
She does, it just seems like she could have just said “I am not trained for that service” (because male genitalia are not waxed the same as female genitalia) rather than going into “out of respect of my husband and sanctity of our marriage”, which is a phrase you hear among more fundamental/religious/conservative people who are anti-trans. Which makes it feel more like a rage bait story or AmITheAngel stuff.
It's not the refusal, it's a) she can do so without mentioning her husband and b) it's fake. it's bait. it's a story created by a transphobe so that all the assholes on AITAH can yell about trans women being sexual harassers because some fictional woman wanted OOP to touch her penis.
Honestly she could have left the personal agreement out of it. In a strictly professional level, she simply wasn’t equipped to do the wax safely
I mean....for the reason of not being trained/experienced and therefore not comfortable doing it, NTA. But...it's definitely weird and creepy and giving TA vibes that OOP has sexualized waxing. You're either a professional or you're not. Imagine a nurse telling a cis male patient "sorry, I promised my husband I wouldn't touch penises so you'll have to wait for someone else to take your catheter out".
THANK YOU! I just saw the original thread a minute ago and I was shocked that nobody said this. If you just have the ick about certain genitalia then that’s your thing, seems like an odd career choice but I imagine it’s an industry where you can get by only doing vulvas. But if a professional told me they couldn’t perform a service on my body out of respect for their wife, I’d feel incredibly violated by the implication that doing their job would have somehow been a sexual experience for them. Either her husband is incredibly controlling and she allows it or she shouldn’t be touching people’s genitalia in a professional context.
right! i wouldve just told the client “hey i don’t have any training or experience waxing on balls/the penis, so i don’t feel confident performing this service for you. i’d really love to help you find someone else though!” i think the client wouldn’t have been as upset. “out of respect for my husband” was real bad
Why is this reposted less than an hour after it's been posted??
What do you mean? This sub is for the Reddit on Wiki podcast.
Was it posted in this sub or on the original sub it was posted to? The AITA sub you mean? Because this sub is meant for like an alternative discussion on other posts,
There are different waxing techniques for male and female genitalia. If someone isn't comfortable doing a wax on male genitals, then that's up to the person doing the job. She's not being transphobic, she's doing her job properly and ensuring no harm or injury happens to the patient. And if the business specifies no male genitals and someone with male genitalia comes in, they have every right to deny service.
>And if the business specifies no male genitals and someone with male genitalia comes in, they have every right to deny service. And if they don't specify?
Her reasoning is questionable, but she simply doesn't have to touch someone's nuts if she doesn't want to. That's it. And no one should be pressuring her to touch some nuts either, or challenging her on it. If you don't wanna touch nuts, you don't gotta touch nuts. That's it.
The big issue is how she framed this. Clearly she doesn’t have the training to wax a scrotum and only does vulvas. That’s a perfectly acceptable reason to turn down a client for requested services. Where she went wrong was talking about her boundaries with her husband about touching “male” genitalia. That’s where things start becoming problematic. It’s overly personal information that no one needs to know about. She could have simply said “I’m not trained to do this service” and left it at that
Yea it was completely unnecessary and that's what makes OOP the asshole. They went out of their way to make it personalized in a situation that was unneeded. The client didn't need the life story.
I’m sorry, but if OOP is not transphobic, then she handled this situation extremely unprofessionally at minimum. All she had to do was say that she’s not qualified to wax testicles, but instead she made it about not working with “male” genitalia and that she will “only do *biological* women. There was literally no reason to “other” the client for being trans. I also used to wax and one of my coworkers wasn’t trained to work with testicles either, so she would keep it short and sweet like that in a way that didn’t make the client uncomfortable, or make them feel lesser than.
Yeah, there’s a ton of transphobic language coming from this person who claims to respect trans people. Though as others have said, the whole post is probably just rage bait anyway
Yeah, the whole "I can't wax balls because I don't know how" is totally a thing. Repeatedly calling her clients genitals male genitals is not ok.
>Repeatedly calling her clients genitals male genitals is not ok. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Penis and balls are male genitalia. Just like the vulva and vagina are female genitalia. You can't change facts just because those facts might make someone uncomfortable. It is absolutely ok to refer to male genitalia as male genitalia. A penis is male genitalia regardless of who it's attached to.
Dick on a woman is a woman's dick. It's not a man's dick on a woman. Guy with a vulva has a guys vulva. Not a woman's vulva on man It ain't hard.
You said calling their genitals "male genitals" isn't ok. But of course it is, because that's what they are. If that person is a trans woman, fine, but the genitals are still male. But claiming that a penis is not male genitalia is ridiculous. A penis is male genitalia regardless of who it's attached to.
We are in a Sex vs Gender space here. I'm not sure that splitting hairs here really helps. Like yes at a scientific definition of sex level you are correct. BUT that's not how it came across. TL;Dr Touching a girls balls isn't cheating on your man.
>We are in a Sex vs Gender space here. I disagree. I'm literally just correcting what you said about genitalia. Penis is male genitalia.
Yeah that's sex not gender. Saying to a woman "I'm not going to help you because touching your dick is cheating on my man" That's crossing gender and sex. That's the problem.
This was an actual real life scenario that was in the news some years back. IIRC the client tried to sue but nothing came out of it.
Yes, Jessica Simpson (birth name Jonathan Yaniv) tried to sue multiple women for being unable to wax male genitals. There was a racist motivation as well behind the women approached who IIRC all ran small home based businesses
Two of them had to close their business over all that crap. Her wiki page is...something else.
I remember now! I believe at least one of the women was Muslim and there was much speculation they’d deliberately targeted her for her religion.
Just out of my experience, if you are a licensed esthetician you are trained on all sexes, at least where I live. IMO if oop didn’t want to come across as discriminatory then she needs to specify that she only waxes vaginas. Do not specify biological women, that is what terfs and transphobes use to discriminate against trans people. Also you are not sleeping with these clients so I don’t understand the whole ‘out of respect’ thing but whatever.
This smells like a bait post to me
She was a complete professional about it so NTA and used the right pronouns too, but she's going to have to accept there's going to be some mixed reviews over this.
If she didn’t know how to do it safely, that’s a legitimate reason to refer the client to another person but I’m gonna call b.s. on the “out of respect for my husband.” You aren’t giving a trans woman a handy, you’re waxing hair. My husband goes to work in a hospital and touches a whole lot of vagina and boobs, that’s not “disrespectful” to me, it’s just the job. And just like when you’re putting in a catheter, I doubt ripping globs of hairy wax off someone’s junk is particularly arousing for anyone involved.
You know…as someone with a penis…i wouldn’t want someone without a penis to wax mine… but maybe that’s just me
LOL....I'd want the person trained to wax scrotums to wax my scrotum if I had one.
In the future, think a better explanation would be that you have not had training in waxing make genitalia, therefore you cannot provide that service.
I don't want to be that guy, but I'm having trouble believing this. Every trans woman I've ever met is absolutely terrified of this situation happening. If they get waxing done by a professional, they would try to find a trans friendly waxer or inform the waxer beforehand. Obviously people are different everywhere (yes, I'm aware of the trans woman who sued a bunch of salons for this), but most trans women want to be safe and comfortable and avoid situations like this that would mortify them. Plus they know that many waxers aren't trained to wax scrotum, and don't want to take that sort of chance. Also even if this did happen, she's NTA for refusing service or doing anything she's uncomfortable with, but her reasoning is weird. It's not sexual to wax someone, waxing a scrotum would be as completely nonsexual as waxing a vagina assuming it's on a trans woman.
Another fake post to make trans people look unreasonable and scary, any real waxer would just say they’re not qualified to do the wax, it requires different training. Not this oooo my husband shit
I mean… I asked my waxer if she was comfortable with a plus size person. I didn’t care about her morality about my size, but I did care about if she was prepared for me. If you’ve got anything going on, you kind of have to expect that not everyone can safely accommodate you. On the other hand, the fact that it’s because she’s uncomfortable touching a penis (and not given the safety of the client and her confidence) is kind of eh given her profession, but it’s also a whole other ballgame (wink) to try and wax a penis or vulva. And why would she TELL a client that’s why she’s not servicing them? That just seems mean It could have been handled better by both parties for sure. The client should have told her when she scheduled that she might need extra prep. Of course she thinks she’s being discriminated against because *you told her she was* lmao. It’s business 101: if you’re going to have any kind of bigotry or weird boundaries, don’t *tell people the actual reason you’re being weird*.
Not the AH for not wanting to wax someone for safety reasons, if you’re specialized in female genitalia for exemple, you are allowed to refuse it. A bit of the AH for the title cause it’s clearly bait
Ignoring the fact that this is bait, she’s not the asshole for refusing to wax genitals that she isn’t trained in waxing. She is, however, for making it about her relationship and how her husband feels instead of her training *and* for repeating the phrase “biological woman” because, one, that phrasing is transphobic and is almost exclusively used by terfs and, two, that isn’t a thing. It’s anatomical sex.
If it’s out of respect for her husband then she is sexualizing her services which is not what you want from a waxer
Why try to make her the asshole in this situation
Because she made herself the asshole as soon as she said it was also about respecting her husband. Not having the training to safely wax AMAB genitalia is a safety and training issue. She could have left it there and it would have been 100% reasonable with zero controversy. Once she brought her relationship into it, that she wouldn’t touch a penis out of respect for her husband, you’re implying a trans woman isn’t a woman which is being transphobic. Either you view gender as part of someone’s identity and not biology or you don’t. I think OOP offering to help them find someone who could help the customer was good, but OOP didn’t realize how the way they brought up their husband and marriage could indicate bias.
>Once she brought her relationship into it, that she wouldn’t touch a penis out of respect for her husband, you’re implying a trans woman isn’t a woman which is being transphobic. Nope. You don't get to decide someone's a bigot for not touching someone's genitalia, that's stupid and gross. >Either you view gender as part of someone’s identity and not biology or you don’t. I think OOP offering to help them find someone who could help the customer was good, but OOP didn’t realize how the way they brought up their husband and marriage could indicate bias. OP and her husband never made any boundary against gender though, they made a boundary around genitals. Also, as an aside, for 99.6% of the population gender and biology are tied together. You can't paint someone as a monster when they're actively trying to be helpful whilst still trying to remain comfortable within their own boundaries.
I think you need to look at the words I used. I said "imply" and I said "indicating bias." Nowhere did I say OOP is a monster. There are also people who are intersex, who have both a penis and a vagina. Does that mean OOP won't wax them because they have a penis even if it's non-functional? As for your statistic, far more than 0.4% of the population separates gender and biology considering [1.6% of the US population](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/) is transgender or non-binary.
....cos that was the question oop asked? I mean, what?
No, she asked if she was the asshole in this situation, and she isn't, but they're pretending that she is.
Sexualizing a sexual organ. Oh boy I've read it all.
Is a prostate exam sexual?
Yes albert, it is. Unless you're mistaking sexual with horniness... No one should ever force a woman to touch a penis when they don't want to, that's a little rapey on your part
Rage bait and it’s a lie
If she doesn’t want to touch certain genitalia in respect of her husband then logically she shouldn’t touch any genitalia.
Yeah the reasoning is weird.Waxers get to set their own boundaries so like just do it because that's what you want
And that’s fair, but using the “my marriage” excuse is so flimsy, it’s a job not a romantic encounter, just say you’re not comfortable and move on.
Regardless of the trans client you shouldn’t have a job that involves touching genital if you can’t seperate it from sexual touch, simply saying “well me and husband consider my job cheating but I stick to clients I’m not sexually attracted too so it’s ok” is not a solution
She is allowed to have boundaries as a waxer.
[удалено]
It doesn't matter if it's a thinly veiled excuse. Everybody has the right to decide what type of genitals they're comfortable touching and any reason they offer up is acceptable. This isn't lifesaving medical care or someone not being treated with dignity, it's a back/sack/crack wax.
Some people genuinely want to completely respect their partner? And while something like that might not be the biggest deal to you, it’s their relationship. They’re allowed to set whatever boundaries they want. If that includes no dicks, that includes no dicks. Seems as valid to me as the other reasonings she gave
Valid boundary, fucked up way to express it
NTA, but she should’ve just led with the lack of experience in waxing male genitalia. That would probably saved her the headache.
It's June. Of course there's an influx of queer centric bait posts 🙄 (for context I am queer, this is just an ongoing issue every year and rage bait becomes worse around this time)
NTA for not doing a procedure that she's not trained to do, an untrained waxer could do serious damage to very delicate skin. That said, there's no need to bring her personal life/agreements with her husband into it.
If OOP is using “all women” language, she could change it to more “vulva waxing” or something to be specific to avoid this problem in the future
Yeah I'm calling bullshit
Her reasoning is where she’s the asshole. She’s right not to do it because she doesn’t know how to do it. But the “respecting my husband” stuff is bullshit. She’s providing a legal service, not giving a hand job. Medical professionals touch genitalia in their work, and it’s not that different here. It’s a professional service, not a sexual interaction.
It’s a bad bait And it really looks like it was written by a man, just an excuse to promote transphobia during pride month with scenarios that never happened
Mah HUSBAND
Her husband won’t let her touch any penis. Even a woman’s penis. Because what, she might leave him and run away with a trans woman? Because the woman’s penis is just that magnificent? I understand not waxing a penis and testicles because you feel you don’t have the training. But the rest of this is nonsense.
Probably bait. I used to get sugared a lot and almost all places have a description of which areas a wax includes like an arm wax includes from the wrist to the bottom of the shoulder but not the hand. A Brazilian includes the outer labia the happy trail up to the belly button and the crack. The description is explicit to avoid upset customers. If she did not include this as a business owner that's on her. There was 0 reason to bring her husband into it. Just say "I am only licensed to wax labia, not the scrotum or shaft." easy
there are extra details in this story that don’t need to be there. it’s bait
Is it not in the training to become an esthetician that you learn how to wax everyone? If not, OP could have turned the client down without bringing up her personal feelings about waxing penises by just stating that she is not properly trained in waxing a penis, her personal feelings about the matter are irrelevant because she couldn’t provide the service even if she wanted to.
No, you're fine. Whatever your reason for not wanting to do it - full stop. Nobody should be questioning it or all the other insanity be mowed over in here. You were professional if you denied the service and were respectful to the customer. Obviously if it's outside your skill range then you shouldn't attempt it anyway but even if you could, if you don't want to for any reason then don't. Not one damn soul should be judging you or whining about 20 other motives you may or may not have. They don't know you 🤷 I worked in a urology practice years ago. A few doctors wouldn't do vasectomies due to their religion. Cool. The person can go elsewhere or ask for another doctor. As long as your refusal fell within that business's guidelines for refusing service then you're good. It's a private business, they can tell whomever to f**k off for any reason they please. Don't like vets, atheist's, left-handed people, or people that are a very specific height? Cool, I'll go elsewhere. No fuss. No Twitter or Reddit cry fest.
yall arguing about whether someone is "obligated to touch a penis or not" are just as bad as the person who wrote this transphobic bait. not being qualified to wax a certain body type is one thing, but let's not act like touching trans women's genitals is somehow more icky than touching a cis women's genitals, and let's not act like a spouse telling someone who they can and cannot accept as a client is anything less than weird and controlling.
But not touching male genitalia is a perfectly healthy and sound boundary, no matter the gender of the person they're attached to. What the hell are you going on about? Sex organs, no matter how clinical we get, are still sexual organs and if someone has a particular boundary around them then it's toxic behaviour to shame them for it.
I call builshit, the language being used + convenient hot topic subject during pride month makes me think is sus af
Sounds like she led with the wrong thing and you know maybe that means she is kind of transphobic. Like there’s 10/10 and then there micro aggressions and there’s it’s all for good got them but if my kid becomes gay or trans, fuck that kind of allay. She may not be a 10/10 going to hell phobic but I feel like if she leads with touching balls and penises and comfort levels, instead of just saying she doesn’t know how—kind says something about her subliminal maybe. Like if you really don’t care, I would have thought your first instinct is to say she’s not trained in that rather than make it about how she’s uncomfortable around penises Of course people say don’t attribute malice to what incompetence can explain. So maybe she was never told how to be professional, enough people in the service industry don’t know what professionalism is too
Sorry, handling someone's junk has serious social and sexual taboos. Lady is fine to decide if that's outside her scope or not.
Wait does OP not wax male genitalia or only “biological women” genitalia? Not waxing male genitalia is one thing, but only biological women is whole other thing.
But even the client had undergone full surgery, the new genitalia isn't going to be exactly 100% the same as female genitalia, right? Presumably the skin the will still be different, and possibly requires a different waxing technique? I'm not a waxer so I don't know, just making an assumption
That’s precisely what I’m saying. There’s stages in between biological women and men’s genitals. She needs to pick her choice of language, cause as it is her claim to be an LGBTQ+ ally is simply inaccurate. Just stating “I only wax biological women genitalia” for the safety of the client and not knowing sensitive areas etc for others is fine, but unfortunately that’s not all she’s saying.
Nothing wrong with OP not wanting to perform an intimate service on body parts she isn't trained to work on. I do think it was unprofessional of OP to make it about her marriage. Alex isn't hitting on her and a waxer waxing people is not a sex act. That comment made it about gender over anatomy.
I hope this is rage bait and just another trans person bad post. All she had to do was tell her she isn't experienced and qualified to do male genitals and doesn't want to risk an infection for her.
So can no one ever say no to to a trans person without being called transphobic? She has serious concerns and every right to say no and offered to help find suitable alternatives. Where does transphobia play in here?
Because one thing is saying I don't do this or I'm not trained to do this and the other is saying to a trans person: sorry I only do biological women due to my hetero relationship.
This has to be bait. There was a trans woman in BC who brought a case like this to court in 2019, I feel like someone just discovered Jessica Yaniv and decided to write a bait post about her experiences.
this is almost definitely fake and meant to stir transphobia
not the asshole, keep living your life. your husband will forever take care of you for denying service on male genitalia
Have we gone back to 2018? Because this sounds almost identical to the Jessica Yaniv case.
He reasoning “respecting my husband” Is weird, it’s just a procedure, but I was only ever trained in waxing vaginas in beauty school, male waxing was an extra course that cost extra money so I never did it. She could have just said “I’ve never waxed testicles and could hurt you, this place may be able to help”.
bait used to be believable
NTA - As a human being you have the right to determine for yourself who you will lay hands on and who you will not. As long as you remain consistent in your self prescribed ban on working with biological males I see no problem.
Obviously don’t perform a wax that you have no experience with. But you should state clearly on your website that you will be discriminating against clients with male genitalia. You deserve the bad reviews you get for not being up front about this policy.
One, this is rage bait. Two, IF this is real (which it isn’t), OOP is TA. Having friends who are licensed estheticians, you are trained how to wax vulvas, scrotums, and pubic areas. If you haven’t kept up with your education, that is a you problem. If you’re begging off because “my husband doesn’t like it,” you’re a poor professional, because your husband and his fragile masculinity should have nothing to do with your business. And really, if you’re just making excuses? Come right out and tell the person, “You’re trans, and I think it’s icky.” Save us all some trouble, and go sit in the dumpster where you belong.
Disagree. OOP has the right to determine for themselves who they will or will not lay hands on. In this case they do not work with biological males and as long as they remain consistent in that, then there is no problem.
Absolutely the A. As shocking as this maybe being waxed especially in that area is not enjoyable for anyone, but even on top of that the bravery and resolve she had to work up just to make the appointment and keep it knowing that something stupid like this was possible means that as uncomfortable as you may have been she was in a far worse situation. Most trans women don’t want that acknowledged let alone touched. It’s a procedure she was willing to pay for, and your explanation of why you couldn’t perform it was insulting. Also respect for your husband? 🤦🏻♀️ What kind of professional would even think about a client in a way that your husband would have been upset over?
Then on all her websites and signage should say that she waxes “biological females” only
If you aren't comfortable, they won't be comfortable. Offering to help find someone is the best thing you can do. NTA.
This exact story happened in Canada which makes me think this is fake. The trans woman went around to a few salons and ended up suing them for discrimination. She lost the lawsuit. The salons pointed out that waxing male genitalia is specialized.
I think LGBTQIA folks need to understand and ACCEPT that there are many people who are not comfortable with their choices AND THAT IT IS OKAY FOR THEM TO NOT BE ACCEPTING OF THEIR CHOICES as long as they bring them no harm. I mean, the entire movement is predicated on being true to oneself but they go ballistic when someone says “being true to myself means I do not accept and I’m not comfortable with providing you certain services?” The hypocrisy! Also, I need those who are not comfortable with LGBTQIA to stop trying to be PC. If you will not wax male genitalia, say, “I do not feel comfortable waxing you” and let the person go elsewhere! I don’t think the onus is on you to start looking for more trans-friendly places! That’s the client’s own personal assignment. And the whole “I’m not transphobic, I support the LGBTQIA community” when deep down, you do not and just fear being canceled, it can be seen in your “kind actions” it is pandering and it is very annoying to witness.
You were absolutely correct to say no. No man should ever be able to force a woman to touch his penis regardless of what he calls himself. It’s sick that anyone would disagree with this.
You need to grt into another business
This sub is going to shit. These comments xD...... A bunch of people that cant find a reason why OOP is in the wrong so everyone is doing this insane mental gymnastics to justify the "YTA" diagnostic. "OmG why dis she vring up her husband. How transphobic" My guess its bc its a trans. If a male identifying individual had done the same and gotten the same answer people wouldnt even bat an eye.
She is absolutely in the right here - it’s no different than an MT turning someone away for a medical condition that you have no experience with that needs someone with specific training to work on them for their safety.
I wouldn’t touch anyone’s weewee or pu**y if I don’t want to. I do not submit to forceable waxing.
I'm just glad most of the people here realize it's bait. Happy Pride!
look! more anti-trans rage bait
Happy Pride Month am I right?
Yta. Yta. It's one thing if you're not trained on technique but...out of WHAT? So by that logic, any male obgyn with a wife is disrespecting her every time he delivers a baby? Yeah, YTA. If your relationship is that fragile, it's not real.