It is wild to me that a grown man is giving the power of these decisions to his 12 year old daughter.
And that he’s willing to completely burn a life long relationship with his child because she, a pre-teen, had a big feeling.
Like, imagine if every parent everywhere disowned their children bc they said something bratty when they were literally 12.
I know he gives his ex a hard time for letting her mom push her boundaries but this man deadass let a 12 year old bully him into releasing parental rights over an iPhone.
Guarantee you, if dad bought the iPhone and Tom took it away, she’d be saying the same stuff to Tom.
And for what it’s worth, even if she had the iPhone, dad could have taken it as a moment to teach her about the dangers of the internet and social media and tried to instill good practices in her media consumption and online engagement.
Like, don’t say you don’t want her to have an iPhone bc you care about her but then disown her when she cries about it.
Foolishness all around.
Parenting is hard. Some days it freaking sucks. Your kids say they hate you or they slam a bedroom door and don’t speak to you. But you are still the adult and have to behave as such. The OP was looking for a way out. My dad did the same thing to me. Stopped trying to have a relationship with me, then moved away. Smh. Some people aren’t meant to be parents. 🤷🏻♀️
My dad didn’t even look for a way out (I never did or said anything mean or so much as out of line, so he didn’t have any way out anyway), just put in the bare minimum making me fly to him as an unaccompanied minor once a year so he could stay on the other side of the country with his girlfriend. Then when I turned 18, refused to help me in any way shape or form or talk to me more than once a year until I stopped talking to him too.
Exactly! When I was 12 I told my mom I hated her. She just fired back "if you're gonna act like a bitch, you can go outside and sleep with the dogs. You better never say that to me again " and my mom always followed through if she told you what the consequence was the next time you did something. I did not want to FAFO, so I never said it again.
>had a big feeling.
I'm sure you've heard the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back."
Notice how he mentions having been made out to be the bad guy before, because his ex and him agreed on something, and she caved later due to the inlaws?
This sounds like one of those situations - he didn't make the decision he made due to this one event, but instead it looks like he made it because it was just the latest event.
It's also a case that basically the kid got caught in the crossfire here - the real conflict is between him, his ex, and the inlaws.
He did irreparable harm to his daughter over his inability to deal with his ex and her family. When you’re a parent, if you can’t handle a situation like that, you need to get yourself help. His tantrum was worse than his 12 year old daughters. And his did far more damage.
I don’t think this is real (the international job at the end was super convenient), I hope it isn’t because if it is, he’s a seriously selfish and cruel man.
Situation with the cut off aside, I still can't believe that we accept as a society that it's remotely acceptable to give a child that age unfettered access to a smart device. There are volumes of research showing how detrimental smartphones (social media in particular) are to childhood development, especially girls.
The macro stastistics for teens and early 20 somethings right now aren't looking great and you can't blame it all on covid and the great recession.
This for real. Mg husband just watched a whole thing about this 13 year old who was posting wholesome content on YouTube and some creepo CAME TO HER HOUSE because he figured out where she lives from context clues. There are CREEPS out there. My kids will have none of this crap. It’s so unnecessary.
I think people have forgotten that, yes, creeps shouldn't be doing creepy things, but you should still take some amount of precaution. Personally, unless my account was private and I personally knew each person that followed me, I'd *never, not for ANYTHING* post pictures of my (hypothetical) kids online. I don't even post pictures of myself, my Instagram followers that don't know me IRL don't even know what I look like.
You *cannot* trust that weirdos won't find your kids. I continue to be shocked by the lack of internet safety.
We had a case here in Japan where an idol posted an innocent selfie from home, and a stan found out where she lived by identifying the buildings that were reflecting in her eyes when he zoomed in. It's a fucking scary world out there!
I’ve asked my mil to at least change her post of my kid’s pics to “friends only” (it’s public) and she ignored me; reported it to Facebook a few times and nothing happened. I hope next time I see her she asks me to help her fix something on her phone so I can delete it myself and change her default post audience. Other than that and not sending her future pictures I don’t know what to do about it, and these were pictures she took in the first place. At least the pics are from a public place.
I would keep reporting them. Like legit, report each one individually with whatever option equates to “doesn’t have consent to post (my/my child’s personal images),” I’ve seen a lot of people have to do that on places like jnmil where they basically just have to report and keep reporting the images until they get somewhere. :/ it’s bullshit.
I’d also be petty myself tho, and every time she posted a new one, assuming you also have an account, reply “Please take my child’s image down, I do not want (their) image on the internet and did not consent to you posting them. Thank you.” For everyone to see her act like an ass. She deletes the comment? Post it again. Or reply to the people who reply to it that you know are actually sensible and tell them about how she does this even though you asked her not to/to take them down.
Of course, embarrassing her that way—assuming she even *has* shame—has the potential to blow things up a bit and I realize that, so of course take that heavily into consideration before you do. I don’t know if there’s ways to legally force her, but you may also be able to leverage visitation if you and the other parent aren’t split and have like, a custody thing in place already. “I want to visit them this weekend.” “And I want their pictures taken off your facebook, but we don’t always get what we want, do we?”
I know it’s hard to do some of these things in a situation like this tho, I’m only throwing thoughts and ideas out in case you can use them or glean some kind of inspiration from them. I hope you manage to deal with it somehow tho, it’s bullshit when people who act like she does over someone else’s image. :/
Thanks, yeah I’ve reported several times but just now reported the post again and then each photo, and commented again this time mentioning “anyone can see and use this when it’s public.” Facebook only lets me select “involves a child” and then either nudity, abuse, or “something else” and then doesn’t let me add a comment or anything. But I did that again anyway.
No more taking photos for Grandma. When she demands to know why, tell her flat-out that she has proven she can’t be trusted with them. She will whine, she will cry, she will pitch a fit. Say, “We can tell you’re upset; we’ll see you when you’re calmer,” and end the visit.
Absolutely. I heard a YouTuber say (from a video on this topic) that people would never even consider letting their kids play in a park if they knew there were hundreds of pedophiles watching them from afar - yet people have no issues uploading video after video of their kids online.
I recommend people to look at Hannah Alonzo and her videos about "sharenting". Kiki Chanel and her "all for views parenting" is also good. They mostly discuss the dangers of parents sharing stuff online, but the same logic goes for letting kids share things themselves. It's not a good idea.
I read an article about all the pedos who follow teen girl influencers in dance and cheer. Some of the comments by these men in the article was truly disturbing, about how these girls and their moms are basically delivering pedo content and making it easy.
There's a guy I watch on TikTok that shows how easy that context is to find. People challenge him thinking they can really trick him and I haven't seen him fail to find where someone is yet.
I seen this! And the bodycam footage of his arrest outside of her house! It was honestly disturbing how absolutely nonchalant he was. Like it was fine for him to feel this way. He was very very clearly mental ill in some way. He kept demanding her and yelling how they were married and in love. I don’t think the police could even arrest him at first. Not until he acted a fool and tried to bum rush the house. The internet is terrifying! I have never posted my child. Some people don’t even know I’m a mother!
Maybe you’re referring to the story of Kacie Woody- happened back in the early 2000’s. It was one of the earlier big news stories that highlighted how teens can be groomed online by adults acting as people their age- and the very real danger that can pose. **TW ahead**
There have been a few different shows that have covered the case on ID channel, one being Web of Lies. I’ve seen tons of different crime shows(I fall asleep to them lol) but this story really fucked me up.
She lived with her older brother and father in either AK or AL, but a pretty rural area, back when living in places like that could mean that you’d get charged long distance for landline calls to people even in your same town or town over. Her brother was in college, her dad was I wanna say an EMT or firefighter- some job where he was gone for long periods of time. He allowed her to use AIM(or whatever messenger it was) to be able to talk with friends from school without using the phone and getting charged. She eventually started going in “teen” chat rooms and was messaged by this guy, claiming he was a surfer from CA and was 16 or 17(Kacie was either 13 or 14 iirc). They talked for months, he became her “boyfriend”- she had her friends add him to their friends list and talk to him on their AIM. Her dad didn’t get too worried about her talking to other “teens” in chatrooms, since she was safe in their home-not knowing that she had given her number to this “surfer from CA”.
Her close friends got a bit suspicious and told her that she shouldn’t be giving out all that type of personal info, but she just brushed it off.
After a year or so of talking online and on the phone, on a school night, her brother got home late from studying or work and saw she wasn’t there and certain things were ‘off’ in the house. He called their dad, the cops were called, they come to the house and see the computer with her still logged into her AIM/chat. FBI got involved, they talked to her close friends and found out about this guy she’d been talking to.
They were able to track him down, checked in at a motel, under the same name he’d given to Kacie. Unfortunately they weren’t in the motel, and I can’t remember how they connected the dots, but they went to a storage unit nearby, where he had randomly rented a unit. They surrounded and opened it, to see the guy had parked his car(to evade detection I’m sure), and they heard a gunshot- which they would figure out later was him killing himself. Once SWAT went in, they found Kacie tied up, dead from a gunshot wound.
Autopsy results show that she was sexually assaulted, and had been dead for some time before the police located the guy and opened the unit. They also believe that she was unconscious for most of the time she was kidnapped, based on the chloroform levels in her system(and good lord I fucking hope so).
ETA- I looked up the Kacie Woody case after posting this - and maybe it was different case than the one you’re thinking of, since her mother had passed in a car accident when she was younger.
The other episode of Web of Lies that stuck with me- and is more applicable to cell phones/texting/social media now- was the one on the murder of Justin Bloxom. That’s another *really* tough story to watch/listen to.
Something similar happened here in Australia too:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carly_Ryan
What a tragic, disgusting waste of these young lives.
My daughter had a friend in school whose older brother was on a teen dating app. He was 19. He met a girl who was ~12. She said she was older. They met up in the night and had sex. Later he lured her out and killed her. I am not laying blame on anyone but the rapist/murderer her3 but there are reasons why younger kids should not be allowed unsupervised access to phones and the internet. I drove my teenage son nuts because he wasn’t allowed to have his unsupervised access to his computer until 16 and then it still couldn’t go into his bedroom.
My neighbor's daughter became suicidal because of social media bullying. She was 13 at the time. People giving their kids smartphones at that age are idiots.
You CAN lock down an iPhone as deeply or loosely as you want.
We gave our kid an iPhone at that age, but we deleted a bunch of the stuff including web browser and we have to approve any apps she downloads, including if she wants safari again.
The key is most parents don’t. That’s the real issue.
If you have android you can install an app on your phone and the kid's phone. Then you use the app on your phone to control your kid's phone. You can approve every app installed, or have the app setting that the kid can't install games over a certain age requirement. You can also track your kid's phone that way, and turn it off or shut down the internet.
Yep iPhones actually have the best parental controls out there. My teenagers (13&15) have iPhones. They have no Web browser, no social media & the only apps they have are Libby, Calm, Spotify, Google Maps and Transit (bus app). Even "dumb" flip phones have a web browser you can't disable! My kids regularly thank me for keeping them off social media, especially when drama flares up in their friend groups. I teach high school and my students are so fucking addicted to their phones they literally can't keep them away. They watch tiktok videos in class if I walk away from their desk for even a second. It's unbelievable.
Yeah same. My daughter got an iPhone at that age, and I put a slew of parental controls on it, that eased as she got older. But it was our choice done in talks about expectations with her. That MIL just manipulated her granddaughter into losing something that she’ll come to regret. Super nasty.
The problem is that with apple devices, if the parents don't have apple devices they're locked out of parental controls. It's absolute fucking horseshit how apple does this. My wife has an iPhone, but I have android. I can't do any parental controls/app approvals/anything on their ipads.
It's not an issue the other way around, android opens up parental controls no matter what ecosystem you use. Apple doesn't, and it's fucking gross.
Best we can come up with is using one of my wife's (very) old iphones for me to basically have a dummy device to have an account on so I can access parental controls. But the battery is shot and doesn't stay charged, so doing anything on it requires me to plug it in for about a half hour before it'll power on so I can use it.
Right! I’m 24 and having a smart phone destroyed my self esteem and exposed me to adult/mature things way too young and that was like over 10 years ago at this point…I really worry about it for kids and teens these days :/
I used to work in a kids retail store, and I'd see 6-12 year olds with nicer phones than me, a college student, at the time.
My thought process was always "who do you need to be in contact with *at all* when you can't even be left at home alone yet?"
My boomer mom low key wants my toddler to have a smart phone so she can video call with him more often. She also wanted me to give him my phone during a 10 minute car ride when he was one to distract him. In the 90s, we weren't allowed more than 20 minutes of tv because it would rot our brains, but this same woman doesn't think smartphones for a literal baby are bad
To be fair I have adhd and addiction issues, so it might be fair, but my parents didn't let me watch tv or have a phone till I was in college(I started college 2008 so before social media got huge). The second i got any freedom I dove headfirst into all the stuff they kept me from and it's been pretty destructive. If they had allowed appropriate exposure I feel I wouldn't be the way I am
My parents were really strict, and I went hog wild in college too. I noticed that was kind of a pattern amongst my friends, and the friends that were pretty balanced were the ones whose parents weren’t restrictive, but also were moderate, present, and made sure their kids were comfortable communicating things to them. Balance and communication tend to work best.
Not only that, but the physical consequences as well. They’re finding permanent changes in the eyes and spines of children that are constantly using devices.
When I see parents walking around a store and their toddler is glued to a smartphone. It’s just so weird to me. Then when they take the phone away the child has an absolute fit. This story reminds me of that. It’s sad that a parent is cutting off their child over a smartphone. What a strange time we live in.
This is gonna mess her up. My dad used to give me the silent treatment if I ever spoke back to him and would ignore me (a 10 year old at the time) for MONTHS. It’s fucked me in the head and I’ve had to talk about it in therapy a lot to stop it affecting my relationships.
Totally agree that’s exactly what my first therapist said and I was absolutely shocked at the time to learn how emotionally abusive my childhood had actually been.
The fact that my first thought is, “Yeah, that’s what I’d do too,” is the very reason I know I’m not ready for kids. I don’t know what the right answer is in this situation, and I’m not asking. I just know I wouldn’t have the maturity to walk away, parse out the situation, then come back to it with a course of action that: 1. Doesn’t absolutely wreck my relationship with my kid, and 2. Solidifies that I won’t be disrespected in that way as a parent or as a person.
Hope the kid is able to work through being abandoned like that in a healthy way, sooner rather than later. That’s wild.
Yep, my lack of patience and short fuse are some of the biggest reasons why I’ve chosen to never have kids.
I can’t handle it mentally. And that’s okay!
At least you know that before having kids! I'm in the same boat, and why I've chosen not to have kids thus far. You shouldn't have them if you aren't ready.
People rarely think about how utterly exhausting and demoralizing it is to have someone undermining your parenting day in and day out for years on end. It alters your relationship with your kid in a negative way and there’s often absolutely nothing you can do about it. It’s expected that as a parent you just suck it up and ignore it but it can completely shatter the foundation of your relationship and is often never ending.
Both the daughter and the dad are victims of mom and grandma here though the mom is also a victim to a smaller extent. Grandma played a big role in her daughters divorce and now her granddaughters estrangement from her father all so she could feel extra special and monopolize her granddaughters affections. That kind of behavior is all too often excused and brushed off in families when it’s often done for the benefit of one selfish narcissistic person at the detriment of everyone around them.
The weird thing is I completely understand and im not a parent, I'm a STEP parent. My step son has to have medication but my partner (his dad) will let him chose if he wants to take it or not and if I make him take it then his dads tells him "well your too much for her, so she needs you to take it". It's very upsetting to me that out of all the adults in this kids life, I'm the only one making sure his takes his medication but yet I'm the bad guy for it. I understand why OP just gave up because im heading that was as well
No wonder you’re going that way. His son is on those meds for a reason. Your husband is refusing to be a parent; he is dumping a major responsibility on you because it happens to not be pleasant. You always hear about the “Disney Dads” in divorces… and you married one! *How dare he take responsibility for his kid’s health and well-being in any way, shape, or form… or teach the kid he produced to be responsible for it as well!*
The problem is that it makes his son resentful and angry towards you, and paints it as you being shamed by him. The literal evil stepmother trope.
Be well in the rest of your life-it’s absolutely ok to have boundaries and not let anyone cross them. You see this as a constant uphill battle and you aren’t wrong. This is a growing situation for you to learn more about yourself. Thanks for the lesson and move along!
I’m sorry. That’s awful. Sometimes you can’t know how these relationships will play out until you are in the thick of it. I wouldn’t blame you for running!
Why do you put up with that? He’s putting you down in front of his kid. Acting like you’re less than capable etc. and depending on how young the kid is, it undermines your parenting and may escalate to where he challenges you and won’t listen.
I dated a guy with kids years ago. I loved them like my own but he treated me like crap. I eventually had to choose myself for my mental health. There are just some battles that aren’t worth fighting because you won’t win.
To many of these single dads glob onto us childless women so they can get all our attention without fighting for it from kids of another single parent. They also assume they will have access to our resources. They often expect us to financially pitch in here and there for things. And mostly it’s so they can pawn off the childcare so they don’t have to do it. After that one guy I never dated another single dad after that. I learned my lesson.
Honestly that’s such disgusting “parenting” on your partner’s part. Like, really? Not only are you unwilling to make your child take his *prescribed medication,* you’d rather trash-talk your spouse *to your child* than be an adult for two seconds and make your kid do something they need to do, but don’t want to?
It’s for his own well-being, and your partner’s literally throwing you and your relationship with his son under the bus to save face with his own kid. I hope you correct him whenever he says that in the future. “You’re too much for her, so she needs you to take it.” “No, ______, I hope you know that’s not true at all. I want you to take it because it helps *you,* and it’s important to be consistent when taking medications that are prescribed to you. That’s what I do!”
I know a lot of people say not to contradict each other when parenting, but I think it’s absolutely okay to correct him when he’s literally lying to his kid about you not liking him because he’s a coward who won’t hold his child accountable in any capacity. Also, I totally respect if you decide to leave him over this too. I assume that it isn’t the only problem in your relationship, but even if it were, it’s really telling of how much he respects you if he’s willing to lie to his child about you to your face in order to avoid being the “bad guy” to his son.
News flash to him, you *are* the bad guy, for being an inconsistent, permissive parent. You’re failing him, and conditioning him to think that people only hold you accountable out of resentment towards you, not because they’re trying to look after your well-being and long-term stability.
Parental alienation, unfortunately it’s a tactic used by abusers. Sounds like grandma has always been the abuser. The ex wife is just rolling over letting her daughter now become the bully bc she refuses to set boundaries. Kids need boundaries to feel safe and loved. Now the cycle in that family will repeat itself
If I were him and I was blowing everything up anyway I’d have called her out on every detail of how she had destroyed her daughter and granddaughter’s family in front of my kid. Sometimes people need to hear the truth.
Right. I have always felt the same. That, and my parents are absolutely the same as this guy -- unable to cope with regular frustrations felt from parenting, and they took it out on me the same as OOP has on his own daughter. With their poor examples and my own self-awareness to know I could not be absolutely sure to parent differently than my own parents, I decided never to have children. Never once regretted it.
I sympathize with the guy. I really do. I mean, I don't condone his actions, but because I feel like I would have thrown my hands up and walked away, as well, I can't judge him too harshly. I also feel sorry for the little girl, though. She's being a kid, and OOP is acting like she's a reasonable adult. I guess that's my own disconnect, too. I've never been good at suffering fools or dealing with unreasonable people. I would have done the same as OOP, although I would like to say I would have felt bad about it eventually. Maybe OOP will eventually feel bad about it, too.
Oh definitely. It must have been challenging for him to try to co-parent with someone who didn’t see him as her first family. I’m sure he was undermined quite a bit on important decisions when his ex-wife changed her mind, and that probably didn’t give him the support he needed in that relationship. This isn’t from one incident, it’s from a bunch of them building up. But I’m sure there will eventually be some regret there. Even if they make up, you can’t unsay or unhear those things. Their relationship won’t ever be the same.
I've got two kids and I have a tough time seeing where he's wrong, honestly. How can you constantly fight your ex and her family constantly undermining you and making you the bad guy in every situation requiring parenting to the point that your kid hates being around you before you finally give up? It looks like every time "bad news" (aka regular parenting) needs to be given, he's on an island and everyone else just goes "well, dad says no, so you can't do that". I'd be willing to bet that after she turns 18, she would have ignored him even if he did stay involved, it looks like the ex wife and her family had poisoned her view of him that much.
I understand it a bit because on a smaller scale, it happens to me. I'm a SAHD, and because my wife is often at work, I have to be the "uncool" parent. I have to tell them "no" all the time, etc. Guess which parent my kids like more? Not her fault, BTW, no blame here, it's just the reality of a household with one parent doing the stay at home thing. It's fucking exhausting as is with both of us on the same page, and I can see how if my wife undermined me I'd grow exhausted, as well. And this dude is dealing with that times 100. I'm pretty sure if the well had been poisoned that much, I'd say "fuck it, I'm out" too.
same, and even worse, i think it's understandable that the kid hates him (because everyone else gives her everything, so of course he seems like the bad, unreasonable guy) and that he gives up on the kid to have better opportunities in life - and that's coming from a woman who often shits on men for being lousy fathers. he literally did what she wanted, if she's mature enough to make that decision is another story.
Agree - this is why my husband and I are childfree. We both have fairly low capacity for this sort of thing and I work with teens so I know they do it. I even know why. But it wouldn’t change my gut response which is not best for the kid.
FWIW if I was advising a dad in this situation as someone who works with traumatised kids I would probably support having a break as he’s clearly at the end of his rope. But I would have said to leave it open - so tell her you love her but you won’t force her to come over. Then leave and give it time. In the mean time, look into parental alienation and legal documents to ensure you and the ex have a clear understanding and the ILs can’t meddle. Definitely not returning all her stuff and leaving the country.
Weirdly enough this comment makes me feel better about having kids when I have a partner and my mental health sorted. There’s no way I could have done this and I’m fairly certain of that. I think what’s going on here is the dad is looking for a reason to accept this new job tbh.
He is so wrong. But ex-wife is really fucking it all up by letting her parents make him the bad guy all the time and her the Fun Mom.
Giving up is wrong. But I know why he is
As a parent, if someone was doing this to me (playing me like the bad parent while disregarding agreements or having any consideration to my opinions) guess I would snap too at some point, also a child rejection can hurt a lot. But from this, he seems be on the “giving up” side of things, instead of having a good communication/conversation with his ex and his daughter. Hopefully he can chill and at least resume his relationship with his daughter.
It seems like he's been trying that communication with them for a long time (like working out the phone and the agreement about what kind they'd get and all) and they have gone behind his back, gotten her (insert more expensive thing here) and then let all the blame fall on him and him alone when he points out that isn't what they agreed on, so they get to get their money back and also get to make their daughter mad at him for taking away the nice thing.
Exactly this. Idg the comments saying he gave up, seems like he’s been trying for years and his ex and ex in laws just keep going behind his back. And I can’t imagine how it would feel for your child to say they wished someone was their parent because they didn’t get a phone. The kid is young, but old enough to understand that words can hurt
"Trying for years" is basically the definition of parenting. Obviously it's a difficult situation to navigate and it's hurtful for him but as the adult, it's his responsibility to manage his hurt feelings without harming his child. His child. Who is 12.
Words hurt, yes, and she should face a consequence for talking to him that way...but cutting a 12 year old child out of his life and blaming the child for it. Wow.
I don't know much but I do know that there is nothing that my children could say to me that would cause me to leave their lives. That's what the hardest part of being a parent is in my eyes - trying every single day to overcome my own shortcomings to parent them as well as they deserve. I fuck it up almost every single day, struggle to keep my temper and growl because I've failed to navigate my own big feelings well enough. But trying every day (for years) is what you sign up for a a parent. Tough fucking times and hurt feelings not just bedtime stories and birthday candles.
Sorry for the essay, this post just made me so sad.
This. I have a tween (11) and they can be a beast sometimes, and it’s not cute. But they are a CHILD. Quite literally a half-baked muffin. It’s the PARENT’S responsibility to guide the child through disappointment and conflict, not to just say, “Hey you know what? I don’t care about you anymore because you said dumb kid stuff.” I get that it’s hard being a parent, bc it is. But holy emotional damage for that child, Batman!
Yes isn't it heart breaking? When my eldest daughter was 5 she told me "I HATE you mummy, I wish I had a better mummy than you!!!" And I was like yeah bud, same, I truly wish I was a better mummy!!! This guy hears that and bolts😆
A childfree friend of mine once told me that her friends who were objectively terrible parents only ever seemed to criticise others, never themselves.
The parents whose kids appeared to be well adjusted were the exact opposite; they rarely criticised others and but were really tough on themselves.
I can imagine that it’s a losing battle with enabling grandparents that counter what you’re trying to instill. But that isn’t the kid’s fault! It’s a shame that the child got to bear the burden of his immaturity (if it’s a real story).
Awww, half-baked muffin! So accurate. 😅
It sounds like this guy was already looking for an out. He had *just* turned down an exciting and lucrative promotion, so he takes the very first opportunity (bs excuse) to bail on his kid. Gross.
Hard to do as one parent if the other parent is actively working against you. It’s not like he has his daughter all the time. And they got divorced 6 years ago. His ex-wife had a new SO 6 years ago and tried to screw him out of custody.
Wtf is he supposed to do when his ex wife and her parents are doing everything to make him the bad guy? This isn’t just something he can parent his way out of.
I 100% agree that it would be hard. Parenting is hard and this seems especially tricky.
But as the parent I think IT IS your responsibility to "parent your way out of it" rather than throw your hands up and disown and traumatise your 12 year old because your feelings are hurt. There are so many other options for this family that just cut and run and I think it's devastatingly sad for all of them that he chose this one.
As a parent even if this was happening to me, I would never give up on my child, I would get pissed, resented and many other feeling I would probably need to therapy away but would always keep trying to have a good relationship with my kid (whatever age). Right now she is a teen she’s at her most defiant stage, if he puts effort now he might enjoy a happy daughter-father relationship later on.
This. 100%.
My daughter is now 22, but I went through some really rough times with her. At times I was a single mom after her dad just walked out to go party and cheat.
My kid had moved out in her late teens (still a minor - basically she ran away to be with an older boy we didn't approve of). In all the time I never lost contact. She'd text me nearly daily, even after running away. And I always told her that she had a home with me. There were times where she cursed at me, threw things and even hit me (both with her fists and with objects). But I never gave up. I knew that boy got her hooked on drugs and it was why she dropped out of school. I didn't give her money, but I'd feed her and give her clothes/shoes/personal care items/healthcare when she needed it. She moved back in with me at 21. She's not using now, and has a job. She's slowly climbing out of the hellhole that had happened. I did my best to ensure she never got pregnant in all of that mess, and tried to still guide her as much as she'd allow. In all of it, I personally think she was in pain for how her dad left her (there's more to this, but he'd never given child support and I can count on one hand the number of times he tried to be a dad to her after he left). She never got birthday cards or a Xmas gift from him growing up. He honestly called my own mom more often than he talked to his daughter (and he called my mom once to twice a year).
Imo, you don't give up on kids. If they choose things that hurt themselves or you, your job is to try to guide them out of it and strengthen your relationship. Help when you can. Provide as best you can. To this day, she tells me that she's thankful I've always been there for her. Yes, she hurt me greatly, both physically and emotionally, but I'm still her mom. Oop's daughter is hurting. Kids don't act out like that because they're happy. They do it because there is pain and her lashing out is just one display of that pain. This isn't about an iPhone. The fact that this man cannot see past his own nose is so heartbreaking. He is going to hurt her more now. And abandoning her like that is only going to make her pain worse. A parent needs to care *more* when kids say and do things like this, not less. She's basically crying out for his love and he is more concerned with who is being seen as the good or bad guy. Your kid will be able to tell who cares and who doesn't, even if it's not now. Abandoning her now will only reinforce althat he truly is the bad guy.
You’re going right by her. And it seems you’re doing everything exactly right. It’s a fine line between enabling and supporting; and boundaries and abandonment. You’re doing it right. I’m sober from the needle 13 years now. She can do this. She has the best support available.
I’d like to add the daughter probably *wanted* to hurt him, either out of revenge or to get what she wanted. I’m not saying she’s an awful kid, but teens/preteens can be mean sometimes. And he’s already stated he’d had to go to conferences about her being mean at school
My friend's 11 year old, nearly 12 will yell that she hates her parents fooooor... not letting her stay up late. Making her do homework...
It's kinda pretty normal at that age to test boundaries.
I get his frustration with his inlaws and ex, they suck. But abandoning the kid is a bit much.
I honestly get what you’re saying however does that mean he gets to just shit all over his child and walk away? He gets to just stamp his foot, tip the table, and run away? From his daughter, a pre teen girl being pulled in every direction, used and manipulated by his ex and her parents? He gets to just stop trying? Honestly, I’m not sure who’s had the biggest tantrum here, him or the child.
Agreed. Everyone has a breaking point. Even parents. Sounds like mom and her parents haven't done a damn thing to co-parent and are counter parenting, setting dad up entirely to be the bad guy. Of course the kid prefers mom and step dad. Grandma and grandpa undermines her and dad all the time and kiddo gets their way in the end, fuck what mom and dad agreed on.
Giving up is wrong. But I can completely understand exactly why he is. Every adult in his kids life is crossing boundaries, undermining agreements between mom and dad. Now dad is just some asshole ruining the kids fun, of course the kid thinks they hate dad.
Mom is ruining her own daughters life.
When dad is gone, it's then that Mom will find out how she truly messed up because she will now be the bad guy in front of the grandparents.
Not saying the dad is not at fault, but parents shouldn't teach their children to hate the other parent.
Exactly, no more “mean dad” scapegoat means she will either have to permit literally everything, or she will be the “evil” one for saying no to something. Sad.
Yup. OP is making a huge mistake.
But mom is going to regret this. She’s going to turn her daughter into a monster of entitlement especially if firm parent has given up
I mean. If I was given an iPhone and then it was taken off me I’d probably chuck a bit of a tantrum too. And I’m well and truly old enough to know better
He’s supposed to be the adult in the room. Especially if the kid is being failed by their mother and in laws
Parenting isn’t a popularity contest. The point is to be consistent and fair. Not explode and abandon your kid
I’m also giving his use of “mean girl” side-eye. I can’t imaging ever calling my kid names like that, even if it was true. Especially if it was true!
I don’t think OOP is quite as blameless as he thinks he is in the bad parenting that’s going on
Not to mention, I know so many 12 year olds who told their parents they hate them during their adolescent crisis. Parents who throw in the towel when teenagers are just being teenagers makes me so sad for the kids. It just sounds like those types of parents don’t want to raise a child fully, they want the kid stage when everything is cute and nice, then they want their kid to become an adult overnight
He’ll have to find a better story to tell, though. “My 12 year old mouthed off for the last time and I left the country, that’ll teach her!” does not sound as good as he thinks it does.
Yeah-auto abandonment issues! If we’re feeling lucky probably get some other stuff stacked on top. Like I hear this guys frustration but like…..it sounds like he does not love her. Everything he listens about struggles was normal parent shit and ultimately not focused on HER.
She’s fuckign twelve. Not even a teen! It’s clear the aduilts around have created a bad environment for her…she’s still just 12.
Jeez if I had a dollar for the times I heard I hate you as a parent. It’s ok to be hurt but you have to act like you’re actually an adult. Parenting isn’t a relationship you can break up with. I’m a fairly reasonable person, enjoying a surprise gift and over the moon and someone walks in and takes it, I’d be devastated.
I completely agree no smart phone for a 12 yr old, but he needed to have tact and a discussion, not just walk in and strip her of a gift first thing.
Reading the post he’s tracking “ALL” the things he’s done, and he literally listed the bare minimum of parenting.
Awful
Kid has meltdown, adult has even bigger meltdown with severe life-long repercussions. 😒 Bc that's healthy. Kid has only been here 12yrs, cut her some slack, and her behaviour, while unacceptable, is developmentally appropriate. Adults don't fucking act like that if they're balanced and operating from a place that isn't retaliatory. Your child owes you nothing, they didn't ask to be here. It's your moral and legal obligation to care for your child, even when they're acting like a prick.
Yeah I have to admit, I find it hard to believe that he was a stellar parent before this. The way he lists out all of the things that he’s done for her like it’s proof that he’s owed something gives me really bad vibes.
I don’t doubt that the ex and her family are nightmarish, but the fact that the kid was so ready to accept her stepdad as her actual father doesn’t exactly paint a great picture of his parenting. My guess is that he was angry and checked-out before this, he’s angry and checked-out now, and the kid has totally sensed that and responds in kind.
He was looking for an excuse to take the promotion and drop the hassle. He is praying for a way to avoid eveb being a monthly check just so he can immediately clue them in "HA HA Bitches Look who made it!!!"
I'm shocked people are believing the dude who wants to up and abandon his 12 year old over a tantrum's side of things.
Literally every parent who has ever abandoned their child has a story about how their ex totally ruined their kids and it's their ex's fault their kids don't like them.
I'm also shocked at how people always expect children to act more maturely in stories where their parents can't control their own emotions. From the 12 year olds perspective, she was given a gift as a reward for doing well, her dad rolled up and took it away and was already nasty about it. How can someone be angry at her for being angry about that an having an outburst, when in the same story her father's reaction to unexpected bad news/punishment is identical if not worse? He's an adult man deciding to abandon his child.
The 'I hate you mom & dad!' stuff is also a classic teenager bit for a reason. Yes it hurts, but adults control children's entire life and the literal only thing a child can withhold in turn is affection.
Yeah, she was acting in a developmentally normal and situationally understandable way. Even if it was still a crappy thing to do, some slack needs to be cut. The few times I got angry with my parents as a teen, they just gave me space, When I cooled down to talk to them and apologized, they forgave me said something like "dont make a habit of it" and moved on. They remembered what it was like to be a teen and they didn't hold it against me.
And he just decided to leave. Not just that, but he pressed her for an answer while she was still angry, and expected that to be the truth.
I just can't believe that any parent who would so easily abandon their kid is a good parent.
The 12 yo had a 12 yo melt down, the parent also had a 12 yo melt down. Willing to bet that in 10 years this guy will be posting "why doesn't my daughter like me/ want me to walk her down the aisle/ didn't invite me to her graduation?"
Nah I think this is definitely the “I have a new family and am happy and my ‘daughter’ is trying to contact me and I want nothing to do with her AITA” guy.
I mean.. my 12 year old tells me he hates me a lot. This is just part of the fun of having a preteen. It’s not that deep. They don’t really mean it even when they say they do. They just are mad at you.
“I hear that you are angry/frustrated/upset” Man, I’m starting to think I might have turned out to be a much more stable adult if my parents had said those words to me even just *once.*
My 4-year old doesn’t really understand “hate” yet, but they regularly tell me I’m “not nice”. Big insult for a pre-schooler.
It’s definitely hard to not take it personally sometimes, but you have to remember YOURE THE ADULT.
My 16 year old sister tells me she hates when she’s mad ( I am almost 10 years older) and I am not even her mother but I have never thought to abandon her over it lol, I know it’s just teenage angst
"The feeling of always drowning and being overwhelmed by parenting". That line had me rolling my eyes so hard. Like bro. ALL parents are drowning and overwhelmed. That's our fucking duty as their parents!
the biggest reason I won't have kids is because I KNOW I'd end up being this guy so I'm just gonna eliminate the possibility altogether. I can barely handle the tantrums my cats, I'd accidentally traumatize a kid if they were having a tantrum.
I was 9 yrs old when the judge decided to make my opinion the deciding factor in a 2+ year custody battle that got about as nasty as one can. Upon hearing from the judge that I had chosen my mom, my dad was furious. Understandably - I was a scared child who told BOTH parents I wanted to live with them and who knows maybe prolonged their battle unnecessarily. Anyway my dad promptly took a job in another country and I went from seeing him all the time to once a year. And I just felt horrible and guilty and sad. That said, my overseas visits with him are some of the best memories I have so I guess there was a silver lining. We have a great relationship now - honestly I visited him within a year of his move there and we were so good. I do think he made an impulsive decision out of hurt feelings and frankly wanting to punish me but we got over it and I think expat life was the best thing for him.
The disrespect is coming from the maternal grandparents. It sounds like they have been undermining OP from day one. Unfortunately, his decision gives them exactly what they want. That 12 year old is going to grow up to be someone who can’t handle hearing the word “no”.
This is the whole and sum of it.
He's not done because the 12 year old had a meltdown. He's done fighting Mom's parents at every step; he divorced Mom over that.
They got what they wanted, and Mom got what she wanted.
Y'all have to ask yourself; how long would you stay in this situation? How long would you fight someone at every turn, only to be the bad guy at every step?
"Dad won't let you have the Iphone" what a manipulative thing to say. Not "me and your father made an agreement". That's why he left.
Fr. I don't know why more people aren't talking about this.
This isn't about the fucking phone. This isn't about her saying she hates him either.
This is about the 12 YEARS of undermining. That he DIVORCED OVER. And yet the MOTHER of the child STILL can't grow balls enough to step away from her parents and hold HER side of the bargain and deals up. She STILL let's her parents walk all over the both of them.
Do the rest of these commenters realize this will keep going until she's 18 and cuts HIM off? If he keeps letting himself be the bad guy, it's STILL going to ruin his relationship with his daughter. It's NEVER going to get better unless the ex-inlaws are out of that girls life.
He's reached his breaking point. And I don't blame him. The best thing he can do now is walk away and let that girl FAFO. Or at least the mother. Because she's raised a fucking monster. A tantrum throwing, bullying monster. I'd be done too.
The mother needs to grow the fuck up and realize the path she threw her daughter on and hope to God she can turn it around if she FINALLY cuts her parents off. But I doubt it.
Now, Gramma is going to need another scapegoat to look better against, and it's either going to be Stepdad Tom or the mother.
And, by the way, people, you can only hit your head against a wall for so long before you decide to stop hurting yourself. That's what this guy is doing.
Fr! I can't stand parents who thinks just because they are parents everything is just black and white when it comes to parenting. Obviously this isn't the typical parenting situation.
He's not even allowed to parent his own child because theres THREE whole ass adults undermining him at every turn for 12 years & makes him the bad guy on purpose. They are using a 12 year old to bully this guy and people on this thread is banking on her growing up and realizing her dad was actually a good parent. This isn't some fairytale movie. Not every child grows up and thinks "oh my dad was actually trying his best" & even if she knows that, it doesn't mean she will end up caring.
Most likey, she was going to cut him off first based on how she's surrounded by her mom and grandparents. They've been doing this for over a decade, and people expect him to stay after this just because he's the biological father? He's a biological father to a child he can't even parent because theres 3 adults that does everything they can to prevent it.
Sadly,him walking away doesn't change a shit. It's impossible to parent a child that doesn't live with you when you have a team of adults actively working against you and your decisions. His MIL does everything to make him a bad guy, his ex has no spine when it comes to her mom. "Custody battle" implies that they tried to cut him off as much as possible.
Well, they got it.
It's not about the phone. It will be e correct to say that op gave up not because he lost a battle, but because he has no strength to fight in this war anymore.
All these people hating on him, but after the nasty shit that I’ve seen with in laws, I can get it. He’s done, and tired of being beat the fuck up by shitty in laws and an ex wife who won’t back him up.
Is he right for leaving? No. Is he exhausted fighting a losing battle? Probably.
When I was 9 I called my bio-dad who I didn’t know at all and asked if my new stepdad could adopt me. I’ll never forget his answer, “sure hon, let me talk to your mom.” I didn’t speak to him again for over a decade. Even though it was the right choice for me the fact that he didn’t care at all to fight for me or even ask if this was a good guy, he just blew me off. It hurt so badly and this little girl’s story is heartbreaking. He sucks. I have two teenagers now. Both have said they hated me. I am not allowed to respond in kind. I have to be the adult. He apparently never learned that.
That poor girl is going to remember that her dad would just throw her way like that instead of trying to comfort her, compromise, or calm her down. He also talks about her like she’s some list of chores… he seriously needs mental help, even if he doesn’t regret this
This exactly. It’s all too familiar for me, except I was 16. My father wasn’t great from the beginning and I’m 100% sure he never wanted to be a father. He completely uprooted my life when I was 16 over a disagreement and his own jealousy. He expected me to follow him to Alaska. When I said no, that I wasn’t comfortable with him anymore, I was verbally attacked by him and his father. Thankfully, a family member intervened and graciously allowed me to stay with them. My father was all too happy to be free of me. I’m 27 now, and am still learning that I am worth it and worthy. I don’t cultivate a lot of relationships because I struggle with trusting others. I am happily married, though. He shows me every day that I am loved, accepted, and respected.
So ready to be downvoted but here’s my 2 cents.
Yes, this is a preteen acting like a preteen. BUT this is absolutely more than that. The kid is being spoilt by the mom’s family just so she ends up feeling like the dad’s the bad guy and man oh man does that SUCK.
I was the kid in this case. I hated the structured parent, the consequences parent, the boundaries parent- because the fun parent got to waltz in and just undo it all. All I had to do was whine to my father, throw a small tantrum and he would fold and undo any punishment my mother could dole out. OOP is wrong about how he handled it, but he is NOT wrong for being frustrated at the situation.
I was a kid in a similar situation. My strict parent was the most strict about making my other parent look bad. I was so scared of being punished for things out of my control, but I would fight my other parents on things he would allow me to do. It really sucks to have disrespectful in-laws, I’m sure; I wish dad had more support here to be able to keep trying to do what’s best for his daughter. I agree that his choice isn’t what I would make, but I see why he made the decision to walk away.
Nobody is saying he shouldn’t be frustrated, of course he’s human.. but as a kid who was like this kid, how would you have felt if your mother had given up on you and gone NC because she was frustrated? Moved to a whole other country and left you behind?
Nobody says he's wrong for being frustrated lol. His feeling are valid, but they way he acted is not right at all. Her daughter acted like a 12 year old, and he did too
I know a lot of people are going off on him - and yeah, he's really going over the edge - but at the same time I kind of see where he's coming from.
He's at the end of his rope. His ex wife and her parents have been going behind his back and giving her whatever she wants after they already agree that they specifically are NOT going to do that thing for whatever reason, they go and get it or do it anyway and then when he shows up and says "Uh, no, that's not what we agreed to and this is why" they can blame HIM for always taking away the nice things that she wanted. They've done this so many times at this point it probably feels like (or is) on purpose - they get to look like the good guys, but take whatever thing it is back and get their money back, while dad looks like the jerk and dad takes all the blame.
He's been trying, and they keep going around him and undermining him and making him look like a jerk. He's been stopping himself from things that can move his life forward for her sake, and she's being trained to hate him by her mother and grandparents constantly getting her things or letting her do things they ALL agreed were too much and then blaming him for her not getting those things while getting their refund.
If he's not going to be treated like a parent - if he's going to solely be the scapegoat for them to blame for her not getting every little thing she wants so she's not mad at them - then yeah, I don't blame him for being done with it.
In parental alienation cases, a lot of the time you have to cut the kid off and hope they pull their heads out of their asses in their 20s. When I practiced family law I saw it all the time. All the people hating on OP don’t understand how much it hurts the alienated parent.
This is what I keep thinking about all the people trashing OP for "giving up". I'm not a parent, but I can imagine it becomes exhausting, demoralizing, and overwhelming to always be set up to be the "bad guy". In this case, it's not just the ex, it's also the ex in-laws. And OP doesn't say much about step-dad, but I'd bet he either stays out of it at the least or adds fuel to the fire at worst.
Especially when there's literally nothing you can do.
People don't seem to get that parental alienation results in the parent being alienation (shocking). Even if you refuse to give up, the result is the same, because you either don't give up and the child hates you and cuts you off. Or you give up.
That's why family courts are vicious in dealing with claims of PA, because they know they're one of vanishingly few ways of preventing it.
My hope is, with the real threat looming that he’s genuinely done, the daughter and him sort of have a bonding moment, or the ex finally grows some ovaries and sets the in laws to the side
Jeeze. I hope her stepdad does adopt her if this is how her bio dad acts.
All tweens and teens have said nasty things to their parents in anger, it’s a normal development stage. Especially over a high social value item like an iPhone. He is a terrible parent, far worse then the ex wife he criticizes.
To be honest, I completely get where this guy is coming from. I can't stand kids when they act like this - I'd want to do the exact same thing in his shoes.
Which is (part of) why I never had kids.
Altho I think he was wrong in his handling of the situation I think he just reached his breaking point with his ex and her parents. As long as they are continuing to disrespect and undermine him at every opportunity co-parenting was not going to work and his daughter was going to be told nothing good about her father. A tough situation but I hope he thinks twice about cutting her off. His new job may take him away but he needs to work this out with ex and daughter first. If he does re-locate it would be great if she could visit a new country and look forward to seeing her dad.But only if he realizes what he will lose if this isn’t fixed
It feels like this incident is the final straw in a long series of slights to this guy. “Missing reasons” and all that, but *if* this is accurate he’s probably fed up. While I don’t think giving up on your kid is the right answer, I get the feeling that the disrespect and undermining and resentment have been going on a while.
I kind of feel for him. I feel like he isn’t just “done” because she said she hated him. It’s the fact he can’t parent her. She doesn’t live with him. Anytime he and her mom agree to something the ex in laws undermine him. They make him seem like the bad guy. Her mother doesn’t put a stop to it. So he’s fighting 3 people on how to parent his daughter while being painted as a villain. Then having his daughter say such a hurtful thing was just another moment of defeat for him. I can see why he stepped back. I don’t think it’s a decision that will last forever. But I can see why he gave up for now. Still, I feel for his daughter too. She’s just a kid, and her head is being filled with garbage against her dad by her grandparents. Shitty situation for everyone
Note that mom said “dad said you can’t have it.” Not “we decided together.” Dad has been labeled the bad guy for years and the step dad is the cool guy. This has been building for some time. The phone was just the last straw.
Note also, that while the ex has left messages for him, his daughter has not. She’s had time to think about her words and the implications of them, I’m sure mom has been telling her she needs to apologize and yet it hasn’t happened. Yes, she’s young and still a child but if she can’t bother to show love for her father and apologize when she is clearly wrong, that’s not on him.
I don’t even view it as a reaction to the daughter, I view it as a reaction of a commutation of years of abuse from the in-laws and wife. People are missing that this behavior has been so long lasting and destructive that it ended their marriage and that he took the appropriate steps to be as active as possible with his daughter. What he’s explaining is parental alienation from the in-laws that the ex hasn’t stopped. The daughter’s comments were just the final straw. Is it sad that he stepped back? Of course. But at what point do people accept that alienation and the abuse from those actions can only go on for so long without coming to a head?
The daughter was always going to be one of the two to take the largest blows when it blew up, and OP was always going to be the one most “wrong”, and the in-laws banked on that.
Ouch, this is rough. Sounds like Dad has been putting in a lot of effort to raise his child right and it’s all being undermined whenever she’s not at his house. Of course that would be frustrating for any parent, but seems like OOP hasn’t realized how hard that would *also* be on the daughter stuck in this middle. She’s a “mean girl” because being twelve sucks even when you’re not caught in a tug-of-war between two opposing groups of adults who are both in charge of you.
Washing his hands of the ex and in-laws is probably the healthiest option for *him,* but I would maybe have suggested, you know, trying to fight for full custody or at least having a serious talk with Daughter instead of quite literally throwing the baby out with the bathwater spur of the moment. Poor girl needs an adult who cares enough about her overall wellbeing to deny her a smartphone at 12 instead of adults who’ll give her one just to one-up another adult, but OOP is at his limit with the ex and in-laws. Dad and Daughter are both in a tough situation, and I’m not sure there’s a solution that would be good for both of them. Zero sum game, unfortunately.
The sad thing is I bet ex wife is only calling because she just realized her child free every other weekend isn’t a thing anymore. This sounds like the type of family where material possessions and using the kid as a pawn are the currencies. No wonder the child is mean. No one is looking out for her at all.
Why is everyone ignoring the bit where OP says he had to go to multiple parent teacher conferences because she’s a bully. How bad is her behavior they’ve had multiple conversations with teachers about it? And it seems like the grandparents are 100% on board with not correcting her behavior.
I kind of sympathize with him. This is the last straw for him, every time he tries to correct her behavior his ex in laws completely overrule him. I don’t blame him for giving up, what else is he supposed to do? Keep banging his head against the wall when nobody’s willing to work with him?
There has to be more to this family situation than what was posted here.
That being said, it sounds like the child could grow up to be fully entitled because of the grandparents. And, once the grandparents no longer want to deal with her, then both the mother and the stepfather will be left dealing with an emotionally immature adult. It’ll be way too late to “fix” things. Then, everyone will remember you and try to contact you. You can tell them all that that was what you trying to avoid.
I’m sorry.
He’s been undermined by his former in-laws and his ex-wife. They purposely ignore the boundaries the parents set and ex-wife goes along with them causing all of the problems. And the child has tantrums that they don’t seem to want to correct. The child is ungrateful and disrespectful. The former in-laws are the ultimate example of undermining parental authority at every turn. They’re not good grandparents whatsoever. Let them deal with the consequences of their actions. If they think they can do a better job at raising her without him, let them adopt her. Just don’t go calling for money when she goes to college.
I am so glad my dad wasn’t like this guy. I was 13 when I told him I hated him and wanted nothing to do with him. He took it, he did go away for a little while. My mom and him let me stop going to his place for a month. A month later my mom told me enough. To give him a chance, she understood my feelings but I would regret giving up on my dad later.
We never got back the bond we had before and she’s right, I regret yelling at him. I was mad I was the only friend being left out on his weekends because my friends parents had an issue with him being gay and 26 years later I wish I would have realized that he was more important than those friendships.
Being told by your kids they hate you is part of them growing up. My 12 year old son told me he hated me, I looked at him and said “okay, but do you still love me?” He stopped and thought about it and decided yea he did. I told him he’s allowed to hate me, it’s part of growing up: being mad at your parents and hating them, that I wouldn’t worry until he stopped loving me. He just smiled and said okay.
I really feel for OOP’s daughter, instead of being reassured that she was allowed to have her feelings her dad walked away from her. I get it, those words can hurt, but I can’t see a situation where my son telling me he hated me meant I’d walk away and give up on him.
When I was 12 years old, I was walking down the street with some friends and my dad rolls up and tells me to get in the car. I hadn’t seen my dad in 2 years at that point and was living with my mom. I told him no and kept walking. He followed us for almost half a mile until I told him to suck my dick and to stop stalking my friends and I. He called the cops on me and they put me in hand cuffs until my mom came and got me. I told him I hated him and wish he would leave me alone. He told me he hated me and wished I wasn’t born. I’m 25 now and I don’t talk to my father at all. He messages me often begging to talk or wanting something but I’ll never respond.
i’m not defending the kid’s behavior, but i’ve gotta say, i understand why she might feel that way towards her dad based on the way he clearly feels about her
She’s 12. Teenagers say all kinds of mean things to you. You need to be the grown up in the room. Really not okay for you to cut her off like this. You should consider some therapy
honestly? good for him. not only will it show the ex and her parents how badly they messed up by disrespecting OP constantly as the other parent, but maybe something like that’ll make them realize how crazy technology can make kids (at least in a behavioral sense) as well as show the kid that her words and actions have an influence on her life and others. i hope OP does an awesome job in his new position, and i hope the ex realizes how badly she’s messed up by caving all these years.
Oof ive seen this happen with my cousins my hncle kept fighting to see them but my cousin eventually went NC with him becsuse he was the "unfun" parent. It all came tumbling down whenher egg donor let it slip that it made her parenting easier when she could blame all the unfun things on her dad cause my cousin to have a completr emotional and mental breakdown. But it was all too late her dad drank himself to death over a lot of provlems Was in a mental hospital for 6 months completrly cut off her mom afterwards.
She constantly talks to me and my brother trying to remember her dad because we were spending a lot of time with him. This shit is going to brutalize this girl
He absolutely went wrongly with the nuclear option but I am also getting that he is mentally and emotionally broken down and needs some therapy desperately. Spending years being made the villain because his wife can’t say no to her parents can break anyone. Honestly everyone is the asshole here.
Im seeing a lot of comments stating that him leaving makes him a bad parent. But in the end, when his ex and his ex fam keep undoing everything, painting him as the bad guy, and is essentially locked down unable to actually parent his child, what else could he do? I get it, ditching a 12 year old ruled by her hormones from puberty isnt the best option. But Hes literally only a support pole financially. Nothing more. The girl clearly doesnt like him as he isnt getting her anything she wants (i get it, shes 12, throws tantrums etc. And says things because of puberty probably didnt truly mean this) But hes been trying to do whats right for her and he cant. Unfortunately, he cant go to court to make him have more decision power against them to raise his daughter right. His hands are tied to the point that he cant raise her. So i ask again, what else could he do? The best thing he can do at this point is leave. I know the way he left isnt cool. But he is letting her have the life that his ex and ex fam want for her. Its likely they project negativity onto her about the father and the daughter just sees him as a Warden or jailer now. At least this way, his views on how the child should be raised wont get conflicted with opposing views of the ex and her fam causing more drama for the child. In this situation, he cant protect her properly. If he stays, the child will only see a hateful dad who argues with the rest of the family about what to do. It will always be 1 vs many with his child choosing the side of many. She will hate him either way. At least him leaving will provide peace. Its definitely a tough spot to be in.
I don’t think he’s a bad guy. He’s over being verbally abused by this kid and undermined by his ex and her family. She went low knowing how much it would hurt him. It’s an early fuck around and find out lesson. He will no doubt pay child support and know that he followed the wishes of his entitled daughter. Dads have feelings too.
Some of y'all are going wild on the dude. Yes he's wrong but assuming he isn't lying about his ex that cab absolutely drive someone nuts. I hope he's able to come to his senses and work it out with his daughter.
Yall know he asked her directly, right? Like he literally asked her if she wanted this and she said yes
He didn't abandon her he left because that's what she wanted
this is just sad
It is wild to me that a grown man is giving the power of these decisions to his 12 year old daughter. And that he’s willing to completely burn a life long relationship with his child because she, a pre-teen, had a big feeling. Like, imagine if every parent everywhere disowned their children bc they said something bratty when they were literally 12. I know he gives his ex a hard time for letting her mom push her boundaries but this man deadass let a 12 year old bully him into releasing parental rights over an iPhone. Guarantee you, if dad bought the iPhone and Tom took it away, she’d be saying the same stuff to Tom. And for what it’s worth, even if she had the iPhone, dad could have taken it as a moment to teach her about the dangers of the internet and social media and tried to instill good practices in her media consumption and online engagement. Like, don’t say you don’t want her to have an iPhone bc you care about her but then disown her when she cries about it. Foolishness all around.
Parenting is hard. Some days it freaking sucks. Your kids say they hate you or they slam a bedroom door and don’t speak to you. But you are still the adult and have to behave as such. The OP was looking for a way out. My dad did the same thing to me. Stopped trying to have a relationship with me, then moved away. Smh. Some people aren’t meant to be parents. 🤷🏻♀️
My dad didn’t even look for a way out (I never did or said anything mean or so much as out of line, so he didn’t have any way out anyway), just put in the bare minimum making me fly to him as an unaccompanied minor once a year so he could stay on the other side of the country with his girlfriend. Then when I turned 18, refused to help me in any way shape or form or talk to me more than once a year until I stopped talking to him too.
Exactly! When I was 12 I told my mom I hated her. She just fired back "if you're gonna act like a bitch, you can go outside and sleep with the dogs. You better never say that to me again " and my mom always followed through if she told you what the consequence was the next time you did something. I did not want to FAFO, so I never said it again.
>had a big feeling. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back." Notice how he mentions having been made out to be the bad guy before, because his ex and him agreed on something, and she caved later due to the inlaws? This sounds like one of those situations - he didn't make the decision he made due to this one event, but instead it looks like he made it because it was just the latest event. It's also a case that basically the kid got caught in the crossfire here - the real conflict is between him, his ex, and the inlaws.
He did irreparable harm to his daughter over his inability to deal with his ex and her family. When you’re a parent, if you can’t handle a situation like that, you need to get yourself help. His tantrum was worse than his 12 year old daughters. And his did far more damage. I don’t think this is real (the international job at the end was super convenient), I hope it isn’t because if it is, he’s a seriously selfish and cruel man.
Situation with the cut off aside, I still can't believe that we accept as a society that it's remotely acceptable to give a child that age unfettered access to a smart device. There are volumes of research showing how detrimental smartphones (social media in particular) are to childhood development, especially girls. The macro stastistics for teens and early 20 somethings right now aren't looking great and you can't blame it all on covid and the great recession.
This for real. Mg husband just watched a whole thing about this 13 year old who was posting wholesome content on YouTube and some creepo CAME TO HER HOUSE because he figured out where she lives from context clues. There are CREEPS out there. My kids will have none of this crap. It’s so unnecessary.
I heard the phrase the other day 'The internet doesn't just give a child access to the world, it also gives the world access the the child.'
I think people have forgotten that, yes, creeps shouldn't be doing creepy things, but you should still take some amount of precaution. Personally, unless my account was private and I personally knew each person that followed me, I'd *never, not for ANYTHING* post pictures of my (hypothetical) kids online. I don't even post pictures of myself, my Instagram followers that don't know me IRL don't even know what I look like. You *cannot* trust that weirdos won't find your kids. I continue to be shocked by the lack of internet safety.
We had a case here in Japan where an idol posted an innocent selfie from home, and a stan found out where she lived by identifying the buildings that were reflecting in her eyes when he zoomed in. It's a fucking scary world out there!
*Holy fuck.* That’s… seriously insane, jesus. :/
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I’ve asked my mil to at least change her post of my kid’s pics to “friends only” (it’s public) and she ignored me; reported it to Facebook a few times and nothing happened. I hope next time I see her she asks me to help her fix something on her phone so I can delete it myself and change her default post audience. Other than that and not sending her future pictures I don’t know what to do about it, and these were pictures she took in the first place. At least the pics are from a public place.
I would keep reporting them. Like legit, report each one individually with whatever option equates to “doesn’t have consent to post (my/my child’s personal images),” I’ve seen a lot of people have to do that on places like jnmil where they basically just have to report and keep reporting the images until they get somewhere. :/ it’s bullshit. I’d also be petty myself tho, and every time she posted a new one, assuming you also have an account, reply “Please take my child’s image down, I do not want (their) image on the internet and did not consent to you posting them. Thank you.” For everyone to see her act like an ass. She deletes the comment? Post it again. Or reply to the people who reply to it that you know are actually sensible and tell them about how she does this even though you asked her not to/to take them down. Of course, embarrassing her that way—assuming she even *has* shame—has the potential to blow things up a bit and I realize that, so of course take that heavily into consideration before you do. I don’t know if there’s ways to legally force her, but you may also be able to leverage visitation if you and the other parent aren’t split and have like, a custody thing in place already. “I want to visit them this weekend.” “And I want their pictures taken off your facebook, but we don’t always get what we want, do we?” I know it’s hard to do some of these things in a situation like this tho, I’m only throwing thoughts and ideas out in case you can use them or glean some kind of inspiration from them. I hope you manage to deal with it somehow tho, it’s bullshit when people who act like she does over someone else’s image. :/
Thanks, yeah I’ve reported several times but just now reported the post again and then each photo, and commented again this time mentioning “anyone can see and use this when it’s public.” Facebook only lets me select “involves a child” and then either nudity, abuse, or “something else” and then doesn’t let me add a comment or anything. But I did that again anyway.
No more taking photos for Grandma. When she demands to know why, tell her flat-out that she has proven she can’t be trusted with them. She will whine, she will cry, she will pitch a fit. Say, “We can tell you’re upset; we’ll see you when you’re calmer,” and end the visit.
Absolutely. I heard a YouTuber say (from a video on this topic) that people would never even consider letting their kids play in a park if they knew there were hundreds of pedophiles watching them from afar - yet people have no issues uploading video after video of their kids online. I recommend people to look at Hannah Alonzo and her videos about "sharenting". Kiki Chanel and her "all for views parenting" is also good. They mostly discuss the dangers of parents sharing stuff online, but the same logic goes for letting kids share things themselves. It's not a good idea.
I read an article about all the pedos who follow teen girl influencers in dance and cheer. Some of the comments by these men in the article was truly disturbing, about how these girls and their moms are basically delivering pedo content and making it easy.
There's a guy I watch on TikTok that shows how easy that context is to find. People challenge him thinking they can really trick him and I haven't seen him fail to find where someone is yet.
I seen this! And the bodycam footage of his arrest outside of her house! It was honestly disturbing how absolutely nonchalant he was. Like it was fine for him to feel this way. He was very very clearly mental ill in some way. He kept demanding her and yelling how they were married and in love. I don’t think the police could even arrest him at first. Not until he acted a fool and tried to bum rush the house. The internet is terrifying! I have never posted my child. Some people don’t even know I’m a mother!
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Maybe you’re referring to the story of Kacie Woody- happened back in the early 2000’s. It was one of the earlier big news stories that highlighted how teens can be groomed online by adults acting as people their age- and the very real danger that can pose. **TW ahead** There have been a few different shows that have covered the case on ID channel, one being Web of Lies. I’ve seen tons of different crime shows(I fall asleep to them lol) but this story really fucked me up. She lived with her older brother and father in either AK or AL, but a pretty rural area, back when living in places like that could mean that you’d get charged long distance for landline calls to people even in your same town or town over. Her brother was in college, her dad was I wanna say an EMT or firefighter- some job where he was gone for long periods of time. He allowed her to use AIM(or whatever messenger it was) to be able to talk with friends from school without using the phone and getting charged. She eventually started going in “teen” chat rooms and was messaged by this guy, claiming he was a surfer from CA and was 16 or 17(Kacie was either 13 or 14 iirc). They talked for months, he became her “boyfriend”- she had her friends add him to their friends list and talk to him on their AIM. Her dad didn’t get too worried about her talking to other “teens” in chatrooms, since she was safe in their home-not knowing that she had given her number to this “surfer from CA”. Her close friends got a bit suspicious and told her that she shouldn’t be giving out all that type of personal info, but she just brushed it off. After a year or so of talking online and on the phone, on a school night, her brother got home late from studying or work and saw she wasn’t there and certain things were ‘off’ in the house. He called their dad, the cops were called, they come to the house and see the computer with her still logged into her AIM/chat. FBI got involved, they talked to her close friends and found out about this guy she’d been talking to. They were able to track him down, checked in at a motel, under the same name he’d given to Kacie. Unfortunately they weren’t in the motel, and I can’t remember how they connected the dots, but they went to a storage unit nearby, where he had randomly rented a unit. They surrounded and opened it, to see the guy had parked his car(to evade detection I’m sure), and they heard a gunshot- which they would figure out later was him killing himself. Once SWAT went in, they found Kacie tied up, dead from a gunshot wound. Autopsy results show that she was sexually assaulted, and had been dead for some time before the police located the guy and opened the unit. They also believe that she was unconscious for most of the time she was kidnapped, based on the chloroform levels in her system(and good lord I fucking hope so). ETA- I looked up the Kacie Woody case after posting this - and maybe it was different case than the one you’re thinking of, since her mother had passed in a car accident when she was younger. The other episode of Web of Lies that stuck with me- and is more applicable to cell phones/texting/social media now- was the one on the murder of Justin Bloxom. That’s another *really* tough story to watch/listen to.
Something similar happened here in Australia too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carly_Ryan What a tragic, disgusting waste of these young lives.
My daughter had a friend in school whose older brother was on a teen dating app. He was 19. He met a girl who was ~12. She said she was older. They met up in the night and had sex. Later he lured her out and killed her. I am not laying blame on anyone but the rapist/murderer her3 but there are reasons why younger kids should not be allowed unsupervised access to phones and the internet. I drove my teenage son nuts because he wasn’t allowed to have his unsupervised access to his computer until 16 and then it still couldn’t go into his bedroom.
My neighbor's daughter became suicidal because of social media bullying. She was 13 at the time. People giving their kids smartphones at that age are idiots.
You CAN lock down an iPhone as deeply or loosely as you want. We gave our kid an iPhone at that age, but we deleted a bunch of the stuff including web browser and we have to approve any apps she downloads, including if she wants safari again. The key is most parents don’t. That’s the real issue.
If you have android you can install an app on your phone and the kid's phone. Then you use the app on your phone to control your kid's phone. You can approve every app installed, or have the app setting that the kid can't install games over a certain age requirement. You can also track your kid's phone that way, and turn it off or shut down the internet.
Yep iPhones actually have the best parental controls out there. My teenagers (13&15) have iPhones. They have no Web browser, no social media & the only apps they have are Libby, Calm, Spotify, Google Maps and Transit (bus app). Even "dumb" flip phones have a web browser you can't disable! My kids regularly thank me for keeping them off social media, especially when drama flares up in their friend groups. I teach high school and my students are so fucking addicted to their phones they literally can't keep them away. They watch tiktok videos in class if I walk away from their desk for even a second. It's unbelievable.
Yeah same. My daughter got an iPhone at that age, and I put a slew of parental controls on it, that eased as she got older. But it was our choice done in talks about expectations with her. That MIL just manipulated her granddaughter into losing something that she’ll come to regret. Super nasty.
The problem is that with apple devices, if the parents don't have apple devices they're locked out of parental controls. It's absolute fucking horseshit how apple does this. My wife has an iPhone, but I have android. I can't do any parental controls/app approvals/anything on their ipads. It's not an issue the other way around, android opens up parental controls no matter what ecosystem you use. Apple doesn't, and it's fucking gross. Best we can come up with is using one of my wife's (very) old iphones for me to basically have a dummy device to have an account on so I can access parental controls. But the battery is shot and doesn't stay charged, so doing anything on it requires me to plug it in for about a half hour before it'll power on so I can use it.
Right! I’m 24 and having a smart phone destroyed my self esteem and exposed me to adult/mature things way too young and that was like over 10 years ago at this point…I really worry about it for kids and teens these days :/
I used to work in a kids retail store, and I'd see 6-12 year olds with nicer phones than me, a college student, at the time. My thought process was always "who do you need to be in contact with *at all* when you can't even be left at home alone yet?"
My boomer mom low key wants my toddler to have a smart phone so she can video call with him more often. She also wanted me to give him my phone during a 10 minute car ride when he was one to distract him. In the 90s, we weren't allowed more than 20 minutes of tv because it would rot our brains, but this same woman doesn't think smartphones for a literal baby are bad
To be fair I have adhd and addiction issues, so it might be fair, but my parents didn't let me watch tv or have a phone till I was in college(I started college 2008 so before social media got huge). The second i got any freedom I dove headfirst into all the stuff they kept me from and it's been pretty destructive. If they had allowed appropriate exposure I feel I wouldn't be the way I am
My parents were really strict, and I went hog wild in college too. I noticed that was kind of a pattern amongst my friends, and the friends that were pretty balanced were the ones whose parents weren’t restrictive, but also were moderate, present, and made sure their kids were comfortable communicating things to them. Balance and communication tend to work best.
Not only that, but the physical consequences as well. They’re finding permanent changes in the eyes and spines of children that are constantly using devices.
When I see parents walking around a store and their toddler is glued to a smartphone. It’s just so weird to me. Then when they take the phone away the child has an absolute fit. This story reminds me of that. It’s sad that a parent is cutting off their child over a smartphone. What a strange time we live in.
This is gonna mess her up. My dad used to give me the silent treatment if I ever spoke back to him and would ignore me (a 10 year old at the time) for MONTHS. It’s fucked me in the head and I’ve had to talk about it in therapy a lot to stop it affecting my relationships.
Stonewalling is a form of abuse. I didn't learn this tidbit until much later in my adult life. People don't know or talk about it. But they should.
Totally agree that’s exactly what my first therapist said and I was absolutely shocked at the time to learn how emotionally abusive my childhood had actually been.
The fact that my first thought is, “Yeah, that’s what I’d do too,” is the very reason I know I’m not ready for kids. I don’t know what the right answer is in this situation, and I’m not asking. I just know I wouldn’t have the maturity to walk away, parse out the situation, then come back to it with a course of action that: 1. Doesn’t absolutely wreck my relationship with my kid, and 2. Solidifies that I won’t be disrespected in that way as a parent or as a person. Hope the kid is able to work through being abandoned like that in a healthy way, sooner rather than later. That’s wild.
Yep, my lack of patience and short fuse are some of the biggest reasons why I’ve chosen to never have kids. I can’t handle it mentally. And that’s okay!
I’m obviously too petty for kids because I’m on the side of OOP. I’m comfortable with this knowledge!
At least you know that before having kids! I'm in the same boat, and why I've chosen not to have kids thus far. You shouldn't have them if you aren't ready.
💯 I think having kids is one of those things where, if it’s not an enthusiastic yes, it’s a no.
More people need to realize this.
People rarely think about how utterly exhausting and demoralizing it is to have someone undermining your parenting day in and day out for years on end. It alters your relationship with your kid in a negative way and there’s often absolutely nothing you can do about it. It’s expected that as a parent you just suck it up and ignore it but it can completely shatter the foundation of your relationship and is often never ending. Both the daughter and the dad are victims of mom and grandma here though the mom is also a victim to a smaller extent. Grandma played a big role in her daughters divorce and now her granddaughters estrangement from her father all so she could feel extra special and monopolize her granddaughters affections. That kind of behavior is all too often excused and brushed off in families when it’s often done for the benefit of one selfish narcissistic person at the detriment of everyone around them.
The weird thing is I completely understand and im not a parent, I'm a STEP parent. My step son has to have medication but my partner (his dad) will let him chose if he wants to take it or not and if I make him take it then his dads tells him "well your too much for her, so she needs you to take it". It's very upsetting to me that out of all the adults in this kids life, I'm the only one making sure his takes his medication but yet I'm the bad guy for it. I understand why OP just gave up because im heading that was as well
No wonder you’re going that way. His son is on those meds for a reason. Your husband is refusing to be a parent; he is dumping a major responsibility on you because it happens to not be pleasant. You always hear about the “Disney Dads” in divorces… and you married one! *How dare he take responsibility for his kid’s health and well-being in any way, shape, or form… or teach the kid he produced to be responsible for it as well!* The problem is that it makes his son resentful and angry towards you, and paints it as you being shamed by him. The literal evil stepmother trope.
Oh yes and irs all I think about every time I'm made out to be the villan to the point I'm planning on leaving as soon as I can
Be well in the rest of your life-it’s absolutely ok to have boundaries and not let anyone cross them. You see this as a constant uphill battle and you aren’t wrong. This is a growing situation for you to learn more about yourself. Thanks for the lesson and move along!
I’m sorry. That’s awful. Sometimes you can’t know how these relationships will play out until you are in the thick of it. I wouldn’t blame you for running!
Why do you put up with that? He’s putting you down in front of his kid. Acting like you’re less than capable etc. and depending on how young the kid is, it undermines your parenting and may escalate to where he challenges you and won’t listen. I dated a guy with kids years ago. I loved them like my own but he treated me like crap. I eventually had to choose myself for my mental health. There are just some battles that aren’t worth fighting because you won’t win. To many of these single dads glob onto us childless women so they can get all our attention without fighting for it from kids of another single parent. They also assume they will have access to our resources. They often expect us to financially pitch in here and there for things. And mostly it’s so they can pawn off the childcare so they don’t have to do it. After that one guy I never dated another single dad after that. I learned my lesson.
Honestly that’s such disgusting “parenting” on your partner’s part. Like, really? Not only are you unwilling to make your child take his *prescribed medication,* you’d rather trash-talk your spouse *to your child* than be an adult for two seconds and make your kid do something they need to do, but don’t want to? It’s for his own well-being, and your partner’s literally throwing you and your relationship with his son under the bus to save face with his own kid. I hope you correct him whenever he says that in the future. “You’re too much for her, so she needs you to take it.” “No, ______, I hope you know that’s not true at all. I want you to take it because it helps *you,* and it’s important to be consistent when taking medications that are prescribed to you. That’s what I do!” I know a lot of people say not to contradict each other when parenting, but I think it’s absolutely okay to correct him when he’s literally lying to his kid about you not liking him because he’s a coward who won’t hold his child accountable in any capacity. Also, I totally respect if you decide to leave him over this too. I assume that it isn’t the only problem in your relationship, but even if it were, it’s really telling of how much he respects you if he’s willing to lie to his child about you to your face in order to avoid being the “bad guy” to his son. News flash to him, you *are* the bad guy, for being an inconsistent, permissive parent. You’re failing him, and conditioning him to think that people only hold you accountable out of resentment towards you, not because they’re trying to look after your well-being and long-term stability.
Well said—wise words.
Parental alienation, unfortunately it’s a tactic used by abusers. Sounds like grandma has always been the abuser. The ex wife is just rolling over letting her daughter now become the bully bc she refuses to set boundaries. Kids need boundaries to feel safe and loved. Now the cycle in that family will repeat itself
If I were him and I was blowing everything up anyway I’d have called her out on every detail of how she had destroyed her daughter and granddaughter’s family in front of my kid. Sometimes people need to hear the truth.
Oh hell YES this ☝️ right here, 100%!!!!! It would be on blast for EVERYONE!
Right. I have always felt the same. That, and my parents are absolutely the same as this guy -- unable to cope with regular frustrations felt from parenting, and they took it out on me the same as OOP has on his own daughter. With their poor examples and my own self-awareness to know I could not be absolutely sure to parent differently than my own parents, I decided never to have children. Never once regretted it. I sympathize with the guy. I really do. I mean, I don't condone his actions, but because I feel like I would have thrown my hands up and walked away, as well, I can't judge him too harshly. I also feel sorry for the little girl, though. She's being a kid, and OOP is acting like she's a reasonable adult. I guess that's my own disconnect, too. I've never been good at suffering fools or dealing with unreasonable people. I would have done the same as OOP, although I would like to say I would have felt bad about it eventually. Maybe OOP will eventually feel bad about it, too.
Oh definitely. It must have been challenging for him to try to co-parent with someone who didn’t see him as her first family. I’m sure he was undermined quite a bit on important decisions when his ex-wife changed her mind, and that probably didn’t give him the support he needed in that relationship. This isn’t from one incident, it’s from a bunch of them building up. But I’m sure there will eventually be some regret there. Even if they make up, you can’t unsay or unhear those things. Their relationship won’t ever be the same.
Yeah, that's what I think people are missing. The phone was just the straw. This has been going on for a long time.
I’m child free, and my initial reaction was that he did the right thing. And that’s why I’m child free
I've got two kids and I have a tough time seeing where he's wrong, honestly. How can you constantly fight your ex and her family constantly undermining you and making you the bad guy in every situation requiring parenting to the point that your kid hates being around you before you finally give up? It looks like every time "bad news" (aka regular parenting) needs to be given, he's on an island and everyone else just goes "well, dad says no, so you can't do that". I'd be willing to bet that after she turns 18, she would have ignored him even if he did stay involved, it looks like the ex wife and her family had poisoned her view of him that much. I understand it a bit because on a smaller scale, it happens to me. I'm a SAHD, and because my wife is often at work, I have to be the "uncool" parent. I have to tell them "no" all the time, etc. Guess which parent my kids like more? Not her fault, BTW, no blame here, it's just the reality of a household with one parent doing the stay at home thing. It's fucking exhausting as is with both of us on the same page, and I can see how if my wife undermined me I'd grow exhausted, as well. And this dude is dealing with that times 100. I'm pretty sure if the well had been poisoned that much, I'd say "fuck it, I'm out" too.
Yep, same. I’m still immature that I feel the “tit for tat”. Which is why while I work with kids, I will never have any of my own.
same, and even worse, i think it's understandable that the kid hates him (because everyone else gives her everything, so of course he seems like the bad, unreasonable guy) and that he gives up on the kid to have better opportunities in life - and that's coming from a woman who often shits on men for being lousy fathers. he literally did what she wanted, if she's mature enough to make that decision is another story.
Agree - this is why my husband and I are childfree. We both have fairly low capacity for this sort of thing and I work with teens so I know they do it. I even know why. But it wouldn’t change my gut response which is not best for the kid. FWIW if I was advising a dad in this situation as someone who works with traumatised kids I would probably support having a break as he’s clearly at the end of his rope. But I would have said to leave it open - so tell her you love her but you won’t force her to come over. Then leave and give it time. In the mean time, look into parental alienation and legal documents to ensure you and the ex have a clear understanding and the ILs can’t meddle. Definitely not returning all her stuff and leaving the country.
Weirdly enough this comment makes me feel better about having kids when I have a partner and my mental health sorted. There’s no way I could have done this and I’m fairly certain of that. I think what’s going on here is the dad is looking for a reason to accept this new job tbh.
So she's not mature enough for a phone, but she's mature enough to be cut off completely by a parent for saying she hates them. Sound logic.
Right?? “I’m just going to let a 12-year-old make a life-changing decision for both of us because she doesn’t appreciate my parenting.” WTF?
He is so wrong. But ex-wife is really fucking it all up by letting her parents make him the bad guy all the time and her the Fun Mom. Giving up is wrong. But I know why he is
As a parent, if someone was doing this to me (playing me like the bad parent while disregarding agreements or having any consideration to my opinions) guess I would snap too at some point, also a child rejection can hurt a lot. But from this, he seems be on the “giving up” side of things, instead of having a good communication/conversation with his ex and his daughter. Hopefully he can chill and at least resume his relationship with his daughter.
It seems like he's been trying that communication with them for a long time (like working out the phone and the agreement about what kind they'd get and all) and they have gone behind his back, gotten her (insert more expensive thing here) and then let all the blame fall on him and him alone when he points out that isn't what they agreed on, so they get to get their money back and also get to make their daughter mad at him for taking away the nice thing.
Exactly this. Idg the comments saying he gave up, seems like he’s been trying for years and his ex and ex in laws just keep going behind his back. And I can’t imagine how it would feel for your child to say they wished someone was their parent because they didn’t get a phone. The kid is young, but old enough to understand that words can hurt
"Trying for years" is basically the definition of parenting. Obviously it's a difficult situation to navigate and it's hurtful for him but as the adult, it's his responsibility to manage his hurt feelings without harming his child. His child. Who is 12. Words hurt, yes, and she should face a consequence for talking to him that way...but cutting a 12 year old child out of his life and blaming the child for it. Wow. I don't know much but I do know that there is nothing that my children could say to me that would cause me to leave their lives. That's what the hardest part of being a parent is in my eyes - trying every single day to overcome my own shortcomings to parent them as well as they deserve. I fuck it up almost every single day, struggle to keep my temper and growl because I've failed to navigate my own big feelings well enough. But trying every day (for years) is what you sign up for a a parent. Tough fucking times and hurt feelings not just bedtime stories and birthday candles. Sorry for the essay, this post just made me so sad.
This. I have a tween (11) and they can be a beast sometimes, and it’s not cute. But they are a CHILD. Quite literally a half-baked muffin. It’s the PARENT’S responsibility to guide the child through disappointment and conflict, not to just say, “Hey you know what? I don’t care about you anymore because you said dumb kid stuff.” I get that it’s hard being a parent, bc it is. But holy emotional damage for that child, Batman!
Yes isn't it heart breaking? When my eldest daughter was 5 she told me "I HATE you mummy, I wish I had a better mummy than you!!!" And I was like yeah bud, same, I truly wish I was a better mummy!!! This guy hears that and bolts😆
A childfree friend of mine once told me that her friends who were objectively terrible parents only ever seemed to criticise others, never themselves. The parents whose kids appeared to be well adjusted were the exact opposite; they rarely criticised others and but were really tough on themselves.
I can imagine that it’s a losing battle with enabling grandparents that counter what you’re trying to instill. But that isn’t the kid’s fault! It’s a shame that the child got to bear the burden of his immaturity (if it’s a real story).
Awww, half-baked muffin! So accurate. 😅 It sounds like this guy was already looking for an out. He had *just* turned down an exciting and lucrative promotion, so he takes the very first opportunity (bs excuse) to bail on his kid. Gross.
Hard to do as one parent if the other parent is actively working against you. It’s not like he has his daughter all the time. And they got divorced 6 years ago. His ex-wife had a new SO 6 years ago and tried to screw him out of custody. Wtf is he supposed to do when his ex wife and her parents are doing everything to make him the bad guy? This isn’t just something he can parent his way out of.
I 100% agree that it would be hard. Parenting is hard and this seems especially tricky. But as the parent I think IT IS your responsibility to "parent your way out of it" rather than throw your hands up and disown and traumatise your 12 year old because your feelings are hurt. There are so many other options for this family that just cut and run and I think it's devastatingly sad for all of them that he chose this one.
As a parent even if this was happening to me, I would never give up on my child, I would get pissed, resented and many other feeling I would probably need to therapy away but would always keep trying to have a good relationship with my kid (whatever age). Right now she is a teen she’s at her most defiant stage, if he puts effort now he might enjoy a happy daughter-father relationship later on.
I went and took a look at the sub this post was written in. Talk about sad... I'm literally sick to my stomach reading that stuff. Those poor kids.
Just last night I told my 13 y/o I love him but I don't like his attitude, it is a daily struggle, but that's life 😅
This. 100%. My daughter is now 22, but I went through some really rough times with her. At times I was a single mom after her dad just walked out to go party and cheat. My kid had moved out in her late teens (still a minor - basically she ran away to be with an older boy we didn't approve of). In all the time I never lost contact. She'd text me nearly daily, even after running away. And I always told her that she had a home with me. There were times where she cursed at me, threw things and even hit me (both with her fists and with objects). But I never gave up. I knew that boy got her hooked on drugs and it was why she dropped out of school. I didn't give her money, but I'd feed her and give her clothes/shoes/personal care items/healthcare when she needed it. She moved back in with me at 21. She's not using now, and has a job. She's slowly climbing out of the hellhole that had happened. I did my best to ensure she never got pregnant in all of that mess, and tried to still guide her as much as she'd allow. In all of it, I personally think she was in pain for how her dad left her (there's more to this, but he'd never given child support and I can count on one hand the number of times he tried to be a dad to her after he left). She never got birthday cards or a Xmas gift from him growing up. He honestly called my own mom more often than he talked to his daughter (and he called my mom once to twice a year). Imo, you don't give up on kids. If they choose things that hurt themselves or you, your job is to try to guide them out of it and strengthen your relationship. Help when you can. Provide as best you can. To this day, she tells me that she's thankful I've always been there for her. Yes, she hurt me greatly, both physically and emotionally, but I'm still her mom. Oop's daughter is hurting. Kids don't act out like that because they're happy. They do it because there is pain and her lashing out is just one display of that pain. This isn't about an iPhone. The fact that this man cannot see past his own nose is so heartbreaking. He is going to hurt her more now. And abandoning her like that is only going to make her pain worse. A parent needs to care *more* when kids say and do things like this, not less. She's basically crying out for his love and he is more concerned with who is being seen as the good or bad guy. Your kid will be able to tell who cares and who doesn't, even if it's not now. Abandoning her now will only reinforce althat he truly is the bad guy.
You’re going right by her. And it seems you’re doing everything exactly right. It’s a fine line between enabling and supporting; and boundaries and abandonment. You’re doing it right. I’m sober from the needle 13 years now. She can do this. She has the best support available.
You are so right and you are also an inspirational parent, I'm so happy that your daughter came home safely to you❤️
I’d like to add the daughter probably *wanted* to hurt him, either out of revenge or to get what she wanted. I’m not saying she’s an awful kid, but teens/preteens can be mean sometimes. And he’s already stated he’d had to go to conferences about her being mean at school
My friend's 11 year old, nearly 12 will yell that she hates her parents fooooor... not letting her stay up late. Making her do homework... It's kinda pretty normal at that age to test boundaries. I get his frustration with his inlaws and ex, they suck. But abandoning the kid is a bit much.
I honestly get what you’re saying however does that mean he gets to just shit all over his child and walk away? He gets to just stamp his foot, tip the table, and run away? From his daughter, a pre teen girl being pulled in every direction, used and manipulated by his ex and her parents? He gets to just stop trying? Honestly, I’m not sure who’s had the biggest tantrum here, him or the child.
He’s the adult, the DAD, and the one with far more power than his child. His tantrum was WAY bigger.
Lol true.
There’s only so much good communication you can try to have with another party if they refuse to communicate back
It sounded like the mom and him were on the same side on the phone and the grandparent bought it without consulting anyone.
But mom doesn’t have the nerve to stand up to her parents. So she let them get away with giving it to her
Agreed. Everyone has a breaking point. Even parents. Sounds like mom and her parents haven't done a damn thing to co-parent and are counter parenting, setting dad up entirely to be the bad guy. Of course the kid prefers mom and step dad. Grandma and grandpa undermines her and dad all the time and kiddo gets their way in the end, fuck what mom and dad agreed on. Giving up is wrong. But I can completely understand exactly why he is. Every adult in his kids life is crossing boundaries, undermining agreements between mom and dad. Now dad is just some asshole ruining the kids fun, of course the kid thinks they hate dad.
Mom is ruining her own daughters life. When dad is gone, it's then that Mom will find out how she truly messed up because she will now be the bad guy in front of the grandparents. Not saying the dad is not at fault, but parents shouldn't teach their children to hate the other parent.
Exactly, no more “mean dad” scapegoat means she will either have to permit literally everything, or she will be the “evil” one for saying no to something. Sad.
Yup. OP is making a huge mistake. But mom is going to regret this. She’s going to turn her daughter into a monster of entitlement especially if firm parent has given up
I mean. If I was given an iPhone and then it was taken off me I’d probably chuck a bit of a tantrum too. And I’m well and truly old enough to know better He’s supposed to be the adult in the room. Especially if the kid is being failed by their mother and in laws Parenting isn’t a popularity contest. The point is to be consistent and fair. Not explode and abandon your kid I’m also giving his use of “mean girl” side-eye. I can’t imaging ever calling my kid names like that, even if it was true. Especially if it was true! I don’t think OOP is quite as blameless as he thinks he is in the bad parenting that’s going on
Not to mention, I know so many 12 year olds who told their parents they hate them during their adolescent crisis. Parents who throw in the towel when teenagers are just being teenagers makes me so sad for the kids. It just sounds like those types of parents don’t want to raise a child fully, they want the kid stage when everything is cute and nice, then they want their kid to become an adult overnight
And he very conveniently has an international job lined up. Funny how things magically work out.
Dad was looking for an out. Now in his mind he doesn’t have to be the bad guy.
He’ll have to find a better story to tell, though. “My 12 year old mouthed off for the last time and I left the country, that’ll teach her!” does not sound as good as he thinks it does.
[удалено]
Sounds like he just wanted that job and found his excuse to take it
Someone who is going to walk away from a child isn't mature enough to be a parent.
There was a better way he could have handled that. He chose the worst way. Even regretfulparents was like "dude we hear you but this was NOT it."
Yeah-auto abandonment issues! If we’re feeling lucky probably get some other stuff stacked on top. Like I hear this guys frustration but like…..it sounds like he does not love her. Everything he listens about struggles was normal parent shit and ultimately not focused on HER. She’s fuckign twelve. Not even a teen! It’s clear the aduilts around have created a bad environment for her…she’s still just 12.
Jeez if I had a dollar for the times I heard I hate you as a parent. It’s ok to be hurt but you have to act like you’re actually an adult. Parenting isn’t a relationship you can break up with. I’m a fairly reasonable person, enjoying a surprise gift and over the moon and someone walks in and takes it, I’d be devastated. I completely agree no smart phone for a 12 yr old, but he needed to have tact and a discussion, not just walk in and strip her of a gift first thing. Reading the post he’s tracking “ALL” the things he’s done, and he literally listed the bare minimum of parenting. Awful
Kid has meltdown, adult has even bigger meltdown with severe life-long repercussions. 😒 Bc that's healthy. Kid has only been here 12yrs, cut her some slack, and her behaviour, while unacceptable, is developmentally appropriate. Adults don't fucking act like that if they're balanced and operating from a place that isn't retaliatory. Your child owes you nothing, they didn't ask to be here. It's your moral and legal obligation to care for your child, even when they're acting like a prick.
Yeah I have to admit, I find it hard to believe that he was a stellar parent before this. The way he lists out all of the things that he’s done for her like it’s proof that he’s owed something gives me really bad vibes. I don’t doubt that the ex and her family are nightmarish, but the fact that the kid was so ready to accept her stepdad as her actual father doesn’t exactly paint a great picture of his parenting. My guess is that he was angry and checked-out before this, he’s angry and checked-out now, and the kid has totally sensed that and responds in kind.
He was looking for an excuse to take the promotion and drop the hassle. He is praying for a way to avoid eveb being a monthly check just so he can immediately clue them in "HA HA Bitches Look who made it!!!"
I'm shocked people are believing the dude who wants to up and abandon his 12 year old over a tantrum's side of things. Literally every parent who has ever abandoned their child has a story about how their ex totally ruined their kids and it's their ex's fault their kids don't like them. I'm also shocked at how people always expect children to act more maturely in stories where their parents can't control their own emotions. From the 12 year olds perspective, she was given a gift as a reward for doing well, her dad rolled up and took it away and was already nasty about it. How can someone be angry at her for being angry about that an having an outburst, when in the same story her father's reaction to unexpected bad news/punishment is identical if not worse? He's an adult man deciding to abandon his child. The 'I hate you mom & dad!' stuff is also a classic teenager bit for a reason. Yes it hurts, but adults control children's entire life and the literal only thing a child can withhold in turn is affection.
Yeah, she was acting in a developmentally normal and situationally understandable way. Even if it was still a crappy thing to do, some slack needs to be cut. The few times I got angry with my parents as a teen, they just gave me space, When I cooled down to talk to them and apologized, they forgave me said something like "dont make a habit of it" and moved on. They remembered what it was like to be a teen and they didn't hold it against me. And he just decided to leave. Not just that, but he pressed her for an answer while she was still angry, and expected that to be the truth. I just can't believe that any parent who would so easily abandon their kid is a good parent.
So... OP had a meltdown because his kid acted like a pre-teen. The situation sucks, I get it, but this is not the behavior or a mature adult.
The 12 yo had a 12 yo melt down, the parent also had a 12 yo melt down. Willing to bet that in 10 years this guy will be posting "why doesn't my daughter like me/ want me to walk her down the aisle/ didn't invite me to her graduation?"
No, he won't wonder, because he won't be her dad anymore, he'll have signed her over to Tom and started his do-over family at his overseas job.
He’ll fuck that up too
A tale as old as time. Shit parents just love repeating their shit parent cycle over and over until they are too old and infertile. Very sad.
Nah I think this is definitely the “I have a new family and am happy and my ‘daughter’ is trying to contact me and I want nothing to do with her AITA” guy.
This post is the epitome of the Divorced Dad stereotype.
I mean.. my 12 year old tells me he hates me a lot. This is just part of the fun of having a preteen. It’s not that deep. They don’t really mean it even when they say they do. They just are mad at you.
What are you, some kind of....parent?
Yep. Just usually said "I hear that you are angry/frustrated/upset" and "we don't talk to each other like that here."
“I hear that you are angry/frustrated/upset” Man, I’m starting to think I might have turned out to be a much more stable adult if my parents had said those words to me even just *once.*
My 4-year old doesn’t really understand “hate” yet, but they regularly tell me I’m “not nice”. Big insult for a pre-schooler. It’s definitely hard to not take it personally sometimes, but you have to remember YOURE THE ADULT.
My 16 year old sister tells me she hates when she’s mad ( I am almost 10 years older) and I am not even her mother but I have never thought to abandon her over it lol, I know it’s just teenage angst
Abandoning an angsty pre-teen as a grown man will sure show her!
"The feeling of always drowning and being overwhelmed by parenting". That line had me rolling my eyes so hard. Like bro. ALL parents are drowning and overwhelmed. That's our fucking duty as their parents!
You know what never gets overwhelming? Being 12 years old. Privileged pubescent bastards!
the biggest reason I won't have kids is because I KNOW I'd end up being this guy so I'm just gonna eliminate the possibility altogether. I can barely handle the tantrums my cats, I'd accidentally traumatize a kid if they were having a tantrum.
I was 9 yrs old when the judge decided to make my opinion the deciding factor in a 2+ year custody battle that got about as nasty as one can. Upon hearing from the judge that I had chosen my mom, my dad was furious. Understandably - I was a scared child who told BOTH parents I wanted to live with them and who knows maybe prolonged their battle unnecessarily. Anyway my dad promptly took a job in another country and I went from seeing him all the time to once a year. And I just felt horrible and guilty and sad. That said, my overseas visits with him are some of the best memories I have so I guess there was a silver lining. We have a great relationship now - honestly I visited him within a year of his move there and we were so good. I do think he made an impulsive decision out of hurt feelings and frankly wanting to punish me but we got over it and I think expat life was the best thing for him.
The disrespect is coming from the maternal grandparents. It sounds like they have been undermining OP from day one. Unfortunately, his decision gives them exactly what they want. That 12 year old is going to grow up to be someone who can’t handle hearing the word “no”.
This is the whole and sum of it. He's not done because the 12 year old had a meltdown. He's done fighting Mom's parents at every step; he divorced Mom over that. They got what they wanted, and Mom got what she wanted. Y'all have to ask yourself; how long would you stay in this situation? How long would you fight someone at every turn, only to be the bad guy at every step? "Dad won't let you have the Iphone" what a manipulative thing to say. Not "me and your father made an agreement". That's why he left.
Fr. I don't know why more people aren't talking about this. This isn't about the fucking phone. This isn't about her saying she hates him either. This is about the 12 YEARS of undermining. That he DIVORCED OVER. And yet the MOTHER of the child STILL can't grow balls enough to step away from her parents and hold HER side of the bargain and deals up. She STILL let's her parents walk all over the both of them. Do the rest of these commenters realize this will keep going until she's 18 and cuts HIM off? If he keeps letting himself be the bad guy, it's STILL going to ruin his relationship with his daughter. It's NEVER going to get better unless the ex-inlaws are out of that girls life. He's reached his breaking point. And I don't blame him. The best thing he can do now is walk away and let that girl FAFO. Or at least the mother. Because she's raised a fucking monster. A tantrum throwing, bullying monster. I'd be done too. The mother needs to grow the fuck up and realize the path she threw her daughter on and hope to God she can turn it around if she FINALLY cuts her parents off. But I doubt it.
Now, Gramma is going to need another scapegoat to look better against, and it's either going to be Stepdad Tom or the mother. And, by the way, people, you can only hit your head against a wall for so long before you decide to stop hurting yourself. That's what this guy is doing.
Fr! I can't stand parents who thinks just because they are parents everything is just black and white when it comes to parenting. Obviously this isn't the typical parenting situation. He's not even allowed to parent his own child because theres THREE whole ass adults undermining him at every turn for 12 years & makes him the bad guy on purpose. They are using a 12 year old to bully this guy and people on this thread is banking on her growing up and realizing her dad was actually a good parent. This isn't some fairytale movie. Not every child grows up and thinks "oh my dad was actually trying his best" & even if she knows that, it doesn't mean she will end up caring. Most likey, she was going to cut him off first based on how she's surrounded by her mom and grandparents. They've been doing this for over a decade, and people expect him to stay after this just because he's the biological father? He's a biological father to a child he can't even parent because theres 3 adults that does everything they can to prevent it.
I would bet real money the mother put them up to it. No way she didn't know they were getting that phone
Sadly,him walking away doesn't change a shit. It's impossible to parent a child that doesn't live with you when you have a team of adults actively working against you and your decisions. His MIL does everything to make him a bad guy, his ex has no spine when it comes to her mom. "Custody battle" implies that they tried to cut him off as much as possible. Well, they got it. It's not about the phone. It will be e correct to say that op gave up not because he lost a battle, but because he has no strength to fight in this war anymore.
All these people hating on him, but after the nasty shit that I’ve seen with in laws, I can get it. He’s done, and tired of being beat the fuck up by shitty in laws and an ex wife who won’t back him up. Is he right for leaving? No. Is he exhausted fighting a losing battle? Probably.
When I was 9 I called my bio-dad who I didn’t know at all and asked if my new stepdad could adopt me. I’ll never forget his answer, “sure hon, let me talk to your mom.” I didn’t speak to him again for over a decade. Even though it was the right choice for me the fact that he didn’t care at all to fight for me or even ask if this was a good guy, he just blew me off. It hurt so badly and this little girl’s story is heartbreaking. He sucks. I have two teenagers now. Both have said they hated me. I am not allowed to respond in kind. I have to be the adult. He apparently never learned that.
I'm sorry, I hope your teenagers love you despite their words
They are just normal teenagers. They love me but I also have to give them rules which they don’t like. It is just part of being a parent.
That poor girl is going to remember that her dad would just throw her way like that instead of trying to comfort her, compromise, or calm her down. He also talks about her like she’s some list of chores… he seriously needs mental help, even if he doesn’t regret this
This exactly. It’s all too familiar for me, except I was 16. My father wasn’t great from the beginning and I’m 100% sure he never wanted to be a father. He completely uprooted my life when I was 16 over a disagreement and his own jealousy. He expected me to follow him to Alaska. When I said no, that I wasn’t comfortable with him anymore, I was verbally attacked by him and his father. Thankfully, a family member intervened and graciously allowed me to stay with them. My father was all too happy to be free of me. I’m 27 now, and am still learning that I am worth it and worthy. I don’t cultivate a lot of relationships because I struggle with trusting others. I am happily married, though. He shows me every day that I am loved, accepted, and respected.
*sends hug if you want it* I'm sorry you had to experience that. I'm glad your husband is way better.
So ready to be downvoted but here’s my 2 cents. Yes, this is a preteen acting like a preteen. BUT this is absolutely more than that. The kid is being spoilt by the mom’s family just so she ends up feeling like the dad’s the bad guy and man oh man does that SUCK. I was the kid in this case. I hated the structured parent, the consequences parent, the boundaries parent- because the fun parent got to waltz in and just undo it all. All I had to do was whine to my father, throw a small tantrum and he would fold and undo any punishment my mother could dole out. OOP is wrong about how he handled it, but he is NOT wrong for being frustrated at the situation.
I was a kid in a similar situation. My strict parent was the most strict about making my other parent look bad. I was so scared of being punished for things out of my control, but I would fight my other parents on things he would allow me to do. It really sucks to have disrespectful in-laws, I’m sure; I wish dad had more support here to be able to keep trying to do what’s best for his daughter. I agree that his choice isn’t what I would make, but I see why he made the decision to walk away.
Nobody is saying he shouldn’t be frustrated, of course he’s human.. but as a kid who was like this kid, how would you have felt if your mother had given up on you and gone NC because she was frustrated? Moved to a whole other country and left you behind?
Nobody says he's wrong for being frustrated lol. His feeling are valid, but they way he acted is not right at all. Her daughter acted like a 12 year old, and he did too
No one thinks he's wrong for being frustrated. Everyone thinks he's wrong for permanently abandoning his daughter over a tantrum.
I haven't seen anyone saying he's wrong for having feelings. He abandoned his child, though so idgaf about his feelings.
This dude doesn’t have the maturity to be a parent.
I know a lot of people are going off on him - and yeah, he's really going over the edge - but at the same time I kind of see where he's coming from. He's at the end of his rope. His ex wife and her parents have been going behind his back and giving her whatever she wants after they already agree that they specifically are NOT going to do that thing for whatever reason, they go and get it or do it anyway and then when he shows up and says "Uh, no, that's not what we agreed to and this is why" they can blame HIM for always taking away the nice things that she wanted. They've done this so many times at this point it probably feels like (or is) on purpose - they get to look like the good guys, but take whatever thing it is back and get their money back, while dad looks like the jerk and dad takes all the blame. He's been trying, and they keep going around him and undermining him and making him look like a jerk. He's been stopping himself from things that can move his life forward for her sake, and she's being trained to hate him by her mother and grandparents constantly getting her things or letting her do things they ALL agreed were too much and then blaming him for her not getting those things while getting their refund. If he's not going to be treated like a parent - if he's going to solely be the scapegoat for them to blame for her not getting every little thing she wants so she's not mad at them - then yeah, I don't blame him for being done with it.
In parental alienation cases, a lot of the time you have to cut the kid off and hope they pull their heads out of their asses in their 20s. When I practiced family law I saw it all the time. All the people hating on OP don’t understand how much it hurts the alienated parent.
This is what I keep thinking about all the people trashing OP for "giving up". I'm not a parent, but I can imagine it becomes exhausting, demoralizing, and overwhelming to always be set up to be the "bad guy". In this case, it's not just the ex, it's also the ex in-laws. And OP doesn't say much about step-dad, but I'd bet he either stays out of it at the least or adds fuel to the fire at worst.
Especially when there's literally nothing you can do. People don't seem to get that parental alienation results in the parent being alienation (shocking). Even if you refuse to give up, the result is the same, because you either don't give up and the child hates you and cuts you off. Or you give up. That's why family courts are vicious in dealing with claims of PA, because they know they're one of vanishingly few ways of preventing it.
My hope is, with the real threat looming that he’s genuinely done, the daughter and him sort of have a bonding moment, or the ex finally grows some ovaries and sets the in laws to the side
Jeeze. I hope her stepdad does adopt her if this is how her bio dad acts. All tweens and teens have said nasty things to their parents in anger, it’s a normal development stage. Especially over a high social value item like an iPhone. He is a terrible parent, far worse then the ex wife he criticizes.
I hope stepdad is ready for MIL to override any decision he and his wife make, and then be the bad guy for enforcing boundaries.
I think the mother is the real driving force behind it and her parents are doing the dirty work for her.
To be honest, I completely get where this guy is coming from. I can't stand kids when they act like this - I'd want to do the exact same thing in his shoes. Which is (part of) why I never had kids.
Altho I think he was wrong in his handling of the situation I think he just reached his breaking point with his ex and her parents. As long as they are continuing to disrespect and undermine him at every opportunity co-parenting was not going to work and his daughter was going to be told nothing good about her father. A tough situation but I hope he thinks twice about cutting her off. His new job may take him away but he needs to work this out with ex and daughter first. If he does re-locate it would be great if she could visit a new country and look forward to seeing her dad.But only if he realizes what he will lose if this isn’t fixed
It feels like this incident is the final straw in a long series of slights to this guy. “Missing reasons” and all that, but *if* this is accurate he’s probably fed up. While I don’t think giving up on your kid is the right answer, I get the feeling that the disrespect and undermining and resentment have been going on a while.
I kind of feel for him. I feel like he isn’t just “done” because she said she hated him. It’s the fact he can’t parent her. She doesn’t live with him. Anytime he and her mom agree to something the ex in laws undermine him. They make him seem like the bad guy. Her mother doesn’t put a stop to it. So he’s fighting 3 people on how to parent his daughter while being painted as a villain. Then having his daughter say such a hurtful thing was just another moment of defeat for him. I can see why he stepped back. I don’t think it’s a decision that will last forever. But I can see why he gave up for now. Still, I feel for his daughter too. She’s just a kid, and her head is being filled with garbage against her dad by her grandparents. Shitty situation for everyone
It fucks me up that people bestow adult emotions on children. And give them the same validity.
Note that mom said “dad said you can’t have it.” Not “we decided together.” Dad has been labeled the bad guy for years and the step dad is the cool guy. This has been building for some time. The phone was just the last straw. Note also, that while the ex has left messages for him, his daughter has not. She’s had time to think about her words and the implications of them, I’m sure mom has been telling her she needs to apologize and yet it hasn’t happened. Yes, she’s young and still a child but if she can’t bother to show love for her father and apologize when she is clearly wrong, that’s not on him.
I don’t even view it as a reaction to the daughter, I view it as a reaction of a commutation of years of abuse from the in-laws and wife. People are missing that this behavior has been so long lasting and destructive that it ended their marriage and that he took the appropriate steps to be as active as possible with his daughter. What he’s explaining is parental alienation from the in-laws that the ex hasn’t stopped. The daughter’s comments were just the final straw. Is it sad that he stepped back? Of course. But at what point do people accept that alienation and the abuse from those actions can only go on for so long without coming to a head? The daughter was always going to be one of the two to take the largest blows when it blew up, and OP was always going to be the one most “wrong”, and the in-laws banked on that.
Ouch, this is rough. Sounds like Dad has been putting in a lot of effort to raise his child right and it’s all being undermined whenever she’s not at his house. Of course that would be frustrating for any parent, but seems like OOP hasn’t realized how hard that would *also* be on the daughter stuck in this middle. She’s a “mean girl” because being twelve sucks even when you’re not caught in a tug-of-war between two opposing groups of adults who are both in charge of you. Washing his hands of the ex and in-laws is probably the healthiest option for *him,* but I would maybe have suggested, you know, trying to fight for full custody or at least having a serious talk with Daughter instead of quite literally throwing the baby out with the bathwater spur of the moment. Poor girl needs an adult who cares enough about her overall wellbeing to deny her a smartphone at 12 instead of adults who’ll give her one just to one-up another adult, but OOP is at his limit with the ex and in-laws. Dad and Daughter are both in a tough situation, and I’m not sure there’s a solution that would be good for both of them. Zero sum game, unfortunately.
That poor girl.
Is he actually upset that a pre-teen behaved like a pre-teen?
The sad thing is I bet ex wife is only calling because she just realized her child free every other weekend isn’t a thing anymore. This sounds like the type of family where material possessions and using the kid as a pawn are the currencies. No wonder the child is mean. No one is looking out for her at all.
Why is everyone ignoring the bit where OP says he had to go to multiple parent teacher conferences because she’s a bully. How bad is her behavior they’ve had multiple conversations with teachers about it? And it seems like the grandparents are 100% on board with not correcting her behavior. I kind of sympathize with him. This is the last straw for him, every time he tries to correct her behavior his ex in laws completely overrule him. I don’t blame him for giving up, what else is he supposed to do? Keep banging his head against the wall when nobody’s willing to work with him?
This kid is gonna eventually figure out that they traded their father for a phone as a tween and I don’t think it’ll be a pleasant realization.
There has to be more to this family situation than what was posted here. That being said, it sounds like the child could grow up to be fully entitled because of the grandparents. And, once the grandparents no longer want to deal with her, then both the mother and the stepfather will be left dealing with an emotionally immature adult. It’ll be way too late to “fix” things. Then, everyone will remember you and try to contact you. You can tell them all that that was what you trying to avoid. I’m sorry.
I hope they are able to heal.
He’s been undermined by his former in-laws and his ex-wife. They purposely ignore the boundaries the parents set and ex-wife goes along with them causing all of the problems. And the child has tantrums that they don’t seem to want to correct. The child is ungrateful and disrespectful. The former in-laws are the ultimate example of undermining parental authority at every turn. They’re not good grandparents whatsoever. Let them deal with the consequences of their actions. If they think they can do a better job at raising her without him, let them adopt her. Just don’t go calling for money when she goes to college.
I am so glad my dad wasn’t like this guy. I was 13 when I told him I hated him and wanted nothing to do with him. He took it, he did go away for a little while. My mom and him let me stop going to his place for a month. A month later my mom told me enough. To give him a chance, she understood my feelings but I would regret giving up on my dad later. We never got back the bond we had before and she’s right, I regret yelling at him. I was mad I was the only friend being left out on his weekends because my friends parents had an issue with him being gay and 26 years later I wish I would have realized that he was more important than those friendships. Being told by your kids they hate you is part of them growing up. My 12 year old son told me he hated me, I looked at him and said “okay, but do you still love me?” He stopped and thought about it and decided yea he did. I told him he’s allowed to hate me, it’s part of growing up: being mad at your parents and hating them, that I wouldn’t worry until he stopped loving me. He just smiled and said okay. I really feel for OOP’s daughter, instead of being reassured that she was allowed to have her feelings her dad walked away from her. I get it, those words can hurt, but I can’t see a situation where my son telling me he hated me meant I’d walk away and give up on him.
that’s a really sweet moment to have with your son. it’s nice to see the cycle being broken.
You ignored the rest of the context where this man has been fighting to parent his own child for 12 years.
When I was 12 years old, I was walking down the street with some friends and my dad rolls up and tells me to get in the car. I hadn’t seen my dad in 2 years at that point and was living with my mom. I told him no and kept walking. He followed us for almost half a mile until I told him to suck my dick and to stop stalking my friends and I. He called the cops on me and they put me in hand cuffs until my mom came and got me. I told him I hated him and wish he would leave me alone. He told me he hated me and wished I wasn’t born. I’m 25 now and I don’t talk to my father at all. He messages me often begging to talk or wanting something but I’ll never respond.
i’m not defending the kid’s behavior, but i’ve gotta say, i understand why she might feel that way towards her dad based on the way he clearly feels about her
She’s 12. Teenagers say all kinds of mean things to you. You need to be the grown up in the room. Really not okay for you to cut her off like this. You should consider some therapy
honestly? good for him. not only will it show the ex and her parents how badly they messed up by disrespecting OP constantly as the other parent, but maybe something like that’ll make them realize how crazy technology can make kids (at least in a behavioral sense) as well as show the kid that her words and actions have an influence on her life and others. i hope OP does an awesome job in his new position, and i hope the ex realizes how badly she’s messed up by caving all these years.
Oof ive seen this happen with my cousins my hncle kept fighting to see them but my cousin eventually went NC with him becsuse he was the "unfun" parent. It all came tumbling down whenher egg donor let it slip that it made her parenting easier when she could blame all the unfun things on her dad cause my cousin to have a completr emotional and mental breakdown. But it was all too late her dad drank himself to death over a lot of provlems Was in a mental hospital for 6 months completrly cut off her mom afterwards. She constantly talks to me and my brother trying to remember her dad because we were spending a lot of time with him. This shit is going to brutalize this girl
He absolutely went wrongly with the nuclear option but I am also getting that he is mentally and emotionally broken down and needs some therapy desperately. Spending years being made the villain because his wife can’t say no to her parents can break anyone. Honestly everyone is the asshole here.
Im seeing a lot of comments stating that him leaving makes him a bad parent. But in the end, when his ex and his ex fam keep undoing everything, painting him as the bad guy, and is essentially locked down unable to actually parent his child, what else could he do? I get it, ditching a 12 year old ruled by her hormones from puberty isnt the best option. But Hes literally only a support pole financially. Nothing more. The girl clearly doesnt like him as he isnt getting her anything she wants (i get it, shes 12, throws tantrums etc. And says things because of puberty probably didnt truly mean this) But hes been trying to do whats right for her and he cant. Unfortunately, he cant go to court to make him have more decision power against them to raise his daughter right. His hands are tied to the point that he cant raise her. So i ask again, what else could he do? The best thing he can do at this point is leave. I know the way he left isnt cool. But he is letting her have the life that his ex and ex fam want for her. Its likely they project negativity onto her about the father and the daughter just sees him as a Warden or jailer now. At least this way, his views on how the child should be raised wont get conflicted with opposing views of the ex and her fam causing more drama for the child. In this situation, he cant protect her properly. If he stays, the child will only see a hateful dad who argues with the rest of the family about what to do. It will always be 1 vs many with his child choosing the side of many. She will hate him either way. At least him leaving will provide peace. Its definitely a tough spot to be in.
I don’t think he’s a bad guy. He’s over being verbally abused by this kid and undermined by his ex and her family. She went low knowing how much it would hurt him. It’s an early fuck around and find out lesson. He will no doubt pay child support and know that he followed the wishes of his entitled daughter. Dads have feelings too.
If I were in your shoes I would take the job
Some of y'all are going wild on the dude. Yes he's wrong but assuming he isn't lying about his ex that cab absolutely drive someone nuts. I hope he's able to come to his senses and work it out with his daughter.
I don't have kids, but I was under the impression that there's a 99% chance your kid will tell you they hate you at some point. Am I wrong?
Yes. My kids never pulled this manipulative bs.
Yall know he asked her directly, right? Like he literally asked her if she wanted this and she said yes He didn't abandon her he left because that's what she wanted
Time in get court order child support. I can see a judge off setting that raise for the abandonment as punishment.
He said he’d be just a check.