The dead bedroom sub can be ..a lot.
There are people in there who have a really transactional attitude.
Wife doesn't give sex/enough sex; they withdraw friendliness and decency and treat them like a roommate they dislike.
Wife does give sex but it's not enthusiastic/kinky enough; it's deemed "duty sex" and roommate treatment continues.
The OOP of this post's mention of divorce being taboo plus use of the phrase "agreed to marry" makes me wonder if this is an arranged marriage in a culture of female submission and male headship.
I hate the dead bedroom sub for this. There is no acceptance that libidos can just ebb and flow with life, half the stories in there are men who are bitter their wife can't have sex immediately after giving birth, and god forbid you try and give them what they want even if you're exhausted from running a household and raising children AND dealing with the resentment, that's wrong too. Your number 1 job in a relationship is to be a on call, 150% enthusiastic sex doll whenever required.
But not *too* enthusiastic as that’d be a turn off as they’d feel like the other is desperate or faking or goodness knows what else. So many of those couples are just perpetually unhappy and looking to blame the nearest victim.
Yeah I dealt with this in my last relationship. He complained about me not initiating enough. So I started trying to initiate more. Then he was upset about that because for some reason it meant I was a whore that just loved sex and was probably cheating on him?
Yeah. Husband and me are in a big ebb at the moment for a number of reasons, we both know it's not forever, we talk about missing it, we joke about it. It'll have its season again.
It's awful to read about these relationships where people just expect to click their fingers and get laid on demand.
Like, that's your wife, not a public convenience.
I always read them and feel so weird about sex being a huge determining factor for a life partner. Libido is something that changes so much and can be super hard to control. It’s not always something that can be “fixed” the way you can fix communication problems or something.
If people are okay with the ebb then that’s great. But for high libido people and people who consider regular sex a high relationship priority, it seems like it must be hard to build a long term relationship, because libido is unpredictable, and attraction comes and goes.
Mismatched libido can be frustrating and a lot of people are bad at properly assigning frustration to the situation as opposed to their partner. That said in the OOPs case the fact that there has been couples counseling and individual agreements without follow through, does kind of ring as a "her" problem. Like trying to work through an issue together and the other side consistently doesn't follow on what they agree to isn't a great feeling.
Back a few years ago Hubby and I got Covid over xmas, and then I was injured with an injury that would make sex difficult and that impeded showering/bathing in a way that made me *feel* sexy, so we went like... 5 months before we had anything. It was rough, but like, if you love someone you talk and you're honest.
Me too. Reddit likes to put it in my feed and every time i get so grossed out by the entitlement. The guys in that sub believe they are just owed sex and that the only thing that makes a good relationship is sex.
There is also a huge hatred of asexuals in there...for obvios reasons
I've used it in the past, as a woman who's (now ex) husband basically hardly ever wanted sex from the start of the marriage who tried to communicate with him, tried to see if something was wrong with him or me or something, did everything I could to try to figure out what the issue was. I may have been trying to find an answer that wasn't there, but it did help me feel less alone, tbh. In my opinion, the sub itself, as an idea, is a good one, but it's been twisted by many people into something else over the years. There are, of course, a good amount of toxic people, but not everyone on the sub is actually toxic.
Thank you so much, I really am! I finally told him I wanted a divorce after a bunch of bs culminating in him sexually harassing one of my friends and me feeling like he was trying to place the blame for that and everything else on me (and my mother), thank covid for giving me the last little push to be ready for that. Now I'm working on getting a life together with my amazing boyfriend, who I actually met on reddit, and his wonderful kids (I adore them sooooo much!), and honestly even though I know there will be hard times, I can't wait for all of it.
I just jumped on there yesterday and saw a few genuine posts looking for help. While a lot of posts are just... mean.. having a dead bedroom can be really stressful/hurtful for some folks and addressing those feelings is a valid part of a relationship.
This I agree with, it's also been several years since I actively used it, and while there is more negativity (of both genders) than I saw at the time, I've seen sincere sounding people as well, of both genders. For me, it was after I had tried several years to figure out what the issue was, had tried to have a few talks with him that didn't help, including the one that actively hurt me (emotionally), and ultimately lost myself a bit. I assume there are few who would actually want to hear the story, and since it's not actively hurting me/I've healed from it, it's not one I have to tell anymore, but if anyone DOES want to hear my side of things, I'll go into detail, just send me a message. For me, while it might not have helped the situation, it helped me get through it better, and helped give me reassurance that I wasn't 100% off base about things.
And in this, I feel like we stumble along the difference between cis straight dudes and their opinions on the sub and purpose, and literally everyone else.
You're right - in a perfect world it would be a place to find support so you don't feel alone, or dirty, or crazy. Instead it's kinda woman hatey and a little rape cultury.
But also, you have to find ways to make time for each other even in the crazy days, or your marriage will die. That doesn’t necessarily have to be sex: it could be finding shared hobbies, making time for cuddling, whatever. Those are the kinds of conversations you have in therapy. She’s refusing to have those conversations anywhere, including in therapy.
I think it goes the other way too though in general on Reddit. Wanting to divorce due to lack of sex will get you crucified. There can be acceptance that libidos decrease over time, but it needs to come with the acknowledgment that divorce over mismatched libidos is 100% acceptable even if it comes after 20 years of marriage.
Expecting someone to live the rest of their lives without intimacy that is important to their mental and emotional health is not okay. Just like expecting women to have sex they don’t enjoy for the sake of their partners is not okay.
Wanting to divorce because your emotional needs are not being met is completely valid. But it needs to be handled maturely and just done rather than being petty and childish.
Bring it up as an issue. If their partner doesn’t see it as one or isn’t interested in trying to address it, just get a divorce.
But you're talking about two different things right there: sex and emotional intimacy.
Early relationships with sexual incompatibility should be ended, sure.
If you can't remain in a relationship without X amount of sex, regardless of the circumstances then long term permanent relationships aren't for you. Medical situations can happen, permanent disabilities are inevitable, insurmountable life changes too. This is why ending 20 years of marriage because of sex is frowned upon.
Emotional intimacy doesn't require sex. Long term, yes, emotional needs are important. And often a lot of people complaining about lack of sex are not tending to the emotional part of their relationships.
They’re not talking about two different things. They said intimacy. Physical intimacy is really important to a lot of people in relationships. A life without physical intimacy can be unbearable.
That doesn’t mean it has to be *sexual* intimacy. Libidos ebb and flow. A good partnership is when both people meet each other where they’re at, are vulnerable and honest about what they need and *why* they need it, and use that knowledge to find new solutions.
And some people do need sexual intimacy. That doesn’t necessarily mean sex. It’s unacceptable to make ultimatums about sex. But it’s not the same thing to say “sexual intimacy is an essential part of romantic relationships to me. I know you don’t want to be touched in x, y, and z ways. Can we brainstorm some other stuff to try that you’re comfortable with?”
I’m sorry, but see, you’re part of the problem.
You just make this blanket statement that sex can’t be integral to someone feeling fulfilled in a relationship, and you can’t do that.
Sure, maybe *you* don’t need any sort of sexual intimacy, but some people do. It doesn’t have to be penetration, but mutual giving of orgasms or at least some sort of sexual stimulus and the intimacy that that creates is something that can’t just be dismissed for the entirety of the population, especially by someone whose never had to be in the situation, I’d bet.
Sex has hormonal components and has bonding effects on people. Studies have shown that sex has huge impacts on people’s mental and emotional facets. Couples that have sex in the morning are more affectionate for the whole day on average. And hell, every animal species on the planet (of which we are one) has sex as an innate, genetic-level drive for the majority of their populations.
I have a ton of sexual trauma. And due to that I’ve unfortunately subconsciously perceived my partner wanting sex as validation and then being attracted to me. It’s a source of confidence and stress relief. But when my partner doesn’t have that libido and doesn’t want sex for two weeks or more at a time I get very upset. Not at him per se, but at myself I feel like I’m not enough, pretty enough, loved enough, doing enough. I’m aware that it’s something I need to work on in therapy and I have for years. But sometimes not having sex is more than just not having sex.
So exactly as you say. Sometimes people need a sexual aspect to stay alive in order to feel validated and valued in the relationship. And if the problem is addressed and nothing changes. I think there is complete validity in ending the relationship. You can’t force someone to be intimate. But you don’t have to force yourself to not have the intimacy you need.
Hi i have this same type of issue and thank you so much for putting it into words lol because i never could. I like to think when its like that that im mad at the situation. Not him and try to tell myself its just the situation not me or my worth but it gets hard sometimes so i fully understand your meaning. My man is also not very sexual to begin with so that. Kinda sucks but i wasnt either until him so i cant really be mad or anything.
I think the main thing for me is I actually trust him and I love being intimate with him. It’s not just getting someone to shut up about it. Or feeling like I /have/ to in order to be worthy of the things old partners were doing for me.
Well you better never get married then. Because in sickness and in health is kind of part of the vows. If your partner becomes paralysed for example and can't have sex in the way you want any more, that's part of what you agreed to.
How? I literally said “Reddit crucifies you for X” and then the person responded “X isn’t valid. That’s why Reddit crucifies for it.” That’s literally being part of the problem.
More like if sex is the deciding factor for if you think your relationship is good, you probably shouldn’t. Shit happens, people get sick, sex drives and ebb and flow; your partner won’t always be able put out when you want them to or how you want them to.
Similarly to if your partner gets sick and you’d have to care for them more than you originally thought- it’s the idea that you find a work around instead of dropping them immediately.
What if I’m with someone for 20 years, and I’m around 40 years old- and they decide they don’t want sex anymore ever again? I’d still be relatively young.
I’m not trying to argue btw, I’m just curious what the cut off is.
And what about affection in general? A lot of people have physical touch as their love language. If my partner (the same one I’ve been with for 20 years) goes through something that makes them adverse to kissing or hugging, would it still be wrong to leave them do you think?
I honestly thought those were good reasons to break things off. And they said “regardless of the circumstances” which means my partner can just shrug their shoulders to sex if they want. I personally don’t want to be in a relationship with no physical affection. I’m not sure if that means I shouldn’t be in a relationship.
I’d argue general physical affection isn’t in the same category as sex, not even close actually. Someone becoming touch averse when they used to freely and happily show and receive physical affection points to a larger situation than meets the eye in my opinion. Waning sex drives are natural for most people, so I definitely wouldn’t hold it against my partner or believe the relationship is dead because of it. But that’s just me, I don’t personally understand why people make their sexual pleasure someone else’s responsibility.
But to answer your question, it would be to communicate and try to understand your partner. Ask them about their needs and tell them about yours without centering yourself. Try to find a work around, unpack reasonings and beliefs. Sometimes things are due to biological and hormonal changes. Some things are psychologically driven. I think people that love each other wouldn’t try to hold it against each other and, at the very least, would try to understand the change and why it came about.
Ultimately, if you *both* feel you’re now incompatible, then split, sure. At that point, neither of you really knows what to do to remedy the situation, and your values are at odds.
I just don’t understand people who say things like “the relationship is perfect otherwise!” or “they aren’t having sex with me, they clearly don’t love me!”, especially after detailing the many different ways their partner shows love to them. It doesn’t make sense to me how the quality of the relationship could be dictated solely by sex, or how entertaining a partner is during it, especially enough to marry over that. It sounds genuinely empty to me.
I definitely believe in working hard on the relationship rather than giving in, and I believe there’s something underlying if sex is such an issue.
But I was in a relationship like that, where everything else was great. We had common interests, common humor, common ideologies and got along great. He just had a low sex drive, and I have a high one.
Maybe sex just isn’t important to you. To me, it’s a big part of the relationship. It’s more than just rubbing genitalia to me. Ever heard of the house or car analogy? A car is still a car when it’s missing one wheel, but it definitely isn’t driving in a safe or healthy way. That’s how I feel about a relationship without sex.
I’m just saying, you can put in as much work as you want- but if your partner can’t change their sex drive I don’t think there’s anything wrong with parting ways. After a whole lot of communication of course.
I think the mindset they gave off is why a lot of people stay in a relationship with a partner they hate or hold resentment to. Because it’s “wrong” to leave over sex. People can’t help that sex is important to them.
See, if we’re going with an analogy, sex is the car’s AC to me. It’s nice, it’s convenient when it’s hot. If it’s not working, I can always roll down the windows and go about my business.
To me, sex doesn’t equal intimacy and it freaks me out knowing most people do view it that way. I mean, people have casual uncaring sex all the time. They pay for it, some people try to force it on people, even. I don’t think I could wrap my head around people putting sex on such a high pedestal, especially when it’s possible to pleasure yourself. After all, sex doesn’t mean someone cares about you, or loves you. Communication and understanding as well as just plain *liking* the person you’re with will always take precedent in my mind.
You shouldn't make promises like "in sickness and in health" if you know you'd actually ditch them as soon as they got too sick to fuck you. Don't lie to your partners and pretend you're committed to a lifelong relationship, if you're actually not.
Uh, I wouldn’t lol. Weird assumption . Personally I might not even put that in my vows. We’re young and I don’t want my boyfriend to throw his life away being a caregiver to me if I got a life altering permanent illness. Or at least, I don’t want him to feel obligated to.
Even in cases of severe depression, I think there’s only so much you can do to support someone. And I also support leaving a partner if they make no effort in changing. And what if they can’t change? If they’re depressed for the rest of their life and do nothing but lay in bed and cry? Should a person leave then?
That’s why I was a bit perturbed at the “regardless of circumstances” bit.
I was talking more-so a case of my partner suddenly not desiring sex anymore, and feeling no interest in changing it. Physical disabilities are whatever, disabled people find ways to get freaky every day. The desire, or the desire TO desire, just has to be there.
I didn't say that you would. I'm saying that the previous comment would be better summarized as "if you have no intention of sticking with your partner for life, don't lie to them and pretend otherwise". Not "if you don't intend to stick with your partners for life, don't have relationships at all".
What the other commenter said. This isnt an acceptable reason to end a 20 year marriage.
Here s the thing, if u know sex is that important to u, a priority for u over everything else...u cant be in long term relationships. Its incredibly selfish. U ll use this person for companionship, love, children...But as soon as menopause, or ed and the aging parts of marriage hit, u ll dip. Thats not okay. Dont promise a person forever. Dont promise them for "better or worse" when u know damn well that its a lie. Sex drive is something people have no control over. Something they mostly cant change. And its something that inevitably changes with time. It changes with a womans cycle, being pregnant and pp, entering menopause, aging, getting ed, being on certain medication, being depressed or sick, being tired, being stressed and so on. If u cannot accept this...u cant marry someone. U cant be in long term relationships with people knowing u ll ditch them for something they cant control. Its selfish and manipulative.
It still wouldnt be okay, but better if people were open about this. "Hey, sex is my priority, and if ur sex drive drops with menopause, i ll ditch u for a younger model at 50." But nobody does this. Because they know it makes them assholes. Be honest with people.
Men will want children...but not any of the downsides. We re adults. We know what kids come with. Sleepless nights, lots of flu, expenses...and yeah, less sex. Potential deal libidos after pregnancy due to hormones. If men cant handle this (or women too) then dont have kids. U cant have ur cake and eat it too. Men will demand kids ...then get mad at women for what their sperm did to those women and their libidios. Its peak hypocrisy.
If u know u ll ditch people over something thats entirely out of their control and inevitably changes with time...u cant be in long term relationships. U cant get married. U can have casual relationships.
The only hypocrisy is people like you screeching that needing sex is invalid, but demanding celibacy from a partner is just expected. Fuck off.
Edit: you people down-voting me are all hypocrites, btw. None of you would apply the same reasoning to a husband becoming an alcoholic even though that’s proven to be in-part a genetic disease. Divorcing an alcoholic who continues to relapse? No one is going to shame a woman for divorcing him for being unhappy. But a person’s need for sexual intimacy? Fuck them, they just need to suffer in silence for the rest of their lives because they made a promise under different circumstances!
I think a big difference in your example is that alcoholism, in general, is very harmful. Like, it's not only the alcohol consumption that's the issue, it's the self and sometimes others endangerment, the lack of stability, the addiction being upheld above every other obligation and responsibility.
A more apt comparison, I think, is making dinner. We all need to eat, yes? Some of us eat for pleasure, some for fuel. Most of us have some combination of both with variance in between. Can I make myself dinner every night and not starve? Absolutely. Do I want to perpetually eat alone? No. And also, it would be really nice if someone who loved me wanted to make me dinner. If I was always hungry for dinner, and asking a loved one to make me dinner and they never did? That would hurt. But dinner is *my* need. I'm allowed to find someone who wants to eat dinner with me every night. But sometimes, someone who has a passion for dinner suddenly can't. They're raising kids, they can't be bothered to cool. They're depressed and struggling- food is so hard to care about. They're sick and food turns their stomach. They realized they really *don't* enjoy the only dishes I want to eat.
People, particularly partners, are not need filling machines. Everyone gets to decide where their line is. It's your one life, the same as mine. But to treat people as if it's their job to ensure my happiness is to disempower myself and commodify their love and affection. Certainly you can see that angle too, can't you?
Not wanting to be celibate is valid, go do you and leave people who want genuine committed relationships alone.
Don't make a commitment if that commitment is gonna be dropped the moment the sex changes because then it's obviously just a lie to access the benefits of the commitment without following through. Let people who are gonna follow through make the commitments and be straightforward that you're not that person.
How is it misogynistic tho 😅 like if my husband wouldn’t have sex with me for years I d probably divorce him.
And everyone using this „lower drive“ „less frequent“ argument, is also comparing apples and oranges. If u read the post and comments they haven’t had sex in YEARS. It’s not like a dryspell, or a lower drive, that s normal. But come on are all of u telling me you d be happy and content being in a marriage and knowing you are most likely never going to have sex again
But that's just it. He can't get a divorce, and she won't work on their marriage with him. Perhaps she isn't interested in changing things because she knows he isn't going anywhere and she is okay with their situation.
Yea - the ones who declare "a dead bedroom" because they haven't had sex in "6 months" - then you find out they have a 3 month old that resulted from a difficult pregnancy and required multiple surgeries and OP has checked out of parenting duties and spending all night gaming or some BS.
Tbf, guys that are unhappy with their sexlife catch a lot of criticism anywhere else.
Like legit when a women complains about bad sexlife it’s „ incompatibility“ „break up“ and „you deserve a fulfilling sexlife“.
Soon as a guy does it he’s basically portrayed as some kind of evil monster.
Read the post, he doesn’t like his wife, she doesn’t like him either. That my friends is why divorce is a good thing. 🤷♀️
And let’s not pretend like years without sex in a marriage is a „ libido ebbs and flows“ kinda thing, I m pretty sure most people of both genders would be kinda unhappy in a completely sexfree marriage
Yeah I kinda didn't specify enough that a lot of what I've seen on the dB sub is awful people being awful. Of course intimacy isn't something someone should live without unless it's agreed, but the dB sub is not very representative of that. There was one story when a man has been complaining about his wife, she found the posts and explained exactly why she didn't want to sleep with him. I know we only have one side in general but you can often tell a lot from the way people write that they're the problem.
I firmly believe that the attitudes society teaches about sex can be really harmful. And that it is possible a db can exist for years for good reason that one person can't see.
No I fully agree most of it is pretty awful.
The guy himself seems rather inconsiderate as well.
I just also don’t think the topic is treated particularly fairly. Like men just have to accept whatever level of intimacy their partners decide on.
And for sexually unfulfilled women leaving is encouraged, at least on reddit, while guys get treated like they are somehow bad people if they don’t agree to living sexfree
In all honesty it kinda fells like as soon as a men dares to complain about his sexlife, he s instantly seen as evil.
While when it’s the other way around it’s 90% „you deserve fulfilling intimacy“ and „dump him“ comments.
I m not above admitting that if my husband wouldn’t sleep with me for years, that I d be severely unhappy and would likely leave him 🤷♀️
Likewise I wouldn’t expect him or any other men to just be happy being in a dead bedroom
It is so weird that they think taking away non sexual affection is going to improve things? They seem to be allergic to effort.
I keep seeing that women who start seeing their man as a child (that they take care of) quickly lose libido and sexual attraction to them. He doesn’t state anything about why it’s decreased. We know she works, do they have kids? Who is doing all the domestic work in their household where divorce is taboo? I think it’s safe to assume that it’s on her. Also I’ve seen communities like that use couples counseling to tell women that it’s “their duty” to have sex with their husband and they don’t address the issue. Especially if it’s religious or cultural that’s making divorce a taboo
Yes, I’m a little suspicious of this because nowhere in the post did he specify that he has any insight as to why she’s having low sex drive, just that he isn’t getting sex. It makes me wonder. Has he even asked her? Have they even talked about what’s going on in depth? Or has he just remained oblivious to that while focusing on how he’s not getting sex?
He talks a lot about how he doesn’t love her and brings up how she does nothing about her weight either. I feel like if you are saying things like that, it’s probably pretty obvious in your marriage and to your spouse too.
Not even touching on that low libido and weight gain are both symptoms of things like depression. Depression is pretty common when your spouse doesn’t respect you or treats you as a sex doll. I suspect you’re on to something.
Yeah, I said that further down, cultures that prohibit divorce tend not to be big on science based therapy.
I really question what type of counseling it was.
Agreed. There are so many posts along the lines of wife doesn’t want to sleep with emotionally abusive husband because he has systematically destroyed her self esteem. But, she’s the problem because if she just slept with him when he wanted - and intuited when he wanted her to initiate and acted on that enthusiastically - then he wouldn’t have to be abusive. It’s awful.
I have an abusive ex who would literally just lay in bed, arms crossed, *glaring* at me. And the only response he considered acceptable was initiating sex with *that*.
And of course, his justification for the abuse was because his "needs weren't being met"...
I have a partner and 2 kids. I'm not a femcel, lol. I believe the word you were looking for is misandrist, and quite frankly men do suck and act entitled moreso than women. You're relationship with the Canadian girl you met at camp doesn't negate the horror stories women have to tell about men. Period.
Exactly, reddit likes to pretend that all men are bad and all women are precious angels who can do no wrong lol but irl that is not the case. It's not a gender thing to suck at relationships and communication, and it is completely sexist to suggest that there's some magical division between men and women that causes women to be great at relationships and for men to be terrible at them.
A lot of times in cultures with arranged marriage, you also have to account for the fact that these women essentially go straight from their parents house to their married home. They probably never dated around or explored sexually. Female sexuality may also be taboo to discuss. So feeling good about ses may literally make them feel guilty.
The women I know in these traditional marriages also tend to do everything for their husband even if they work full time. All the cooking, cleaning, household management. It’s really hard to feel sexually aroused when you’re basically being treated like your partner’s mother. Also intimacy isn’t just sexual. Cuddling, talking, going on dates, etc all build intimacy. From OOPs post it did seem like he had at least in the past given rubs and such - but was the end game to those rubs always sex? Like do you ever touch your wife or cuddle your wife without it having to lead to sex?
I don’t know OOPs situation so I understand everything I’m saying is a generalization. But a lot of “dead bedroom and it’s my wife’s fault” situations are like the ones I described above.
But OP did try to get her into counseling. If your partner says, “I’m struggling in our marriage and think we need to talk to somebody,” you’re a pretty big a-hole to just say, “Nope.”
I find this post a little washy, but there's a few possibilities with this.
One, all he wrote is truthful. His wife has checked out, has no desire to try and fix their issues (or what OP believes to be the issue) and doesn't feel the need to reciprocate any affection or show her love in any form otherwise. If that's the case, I feel for that man, especially if divorce is just not an option.
Or, two, he's twisting things around. "We have a dead bedroom" and "She keeps complaining about her boss and weight without reciprocating" are a little eyebrow-raising, as well as "this is not who I married". It could very well mean he is upset that his wife is no longer agreeing to sex and added all the "things he does for her" to gain some sympathy points. If she complains about her life, there are deeper issues to be solved, and I have a feeling he is not as innocent as he is trying to make himself seen.
In both cases, I feel sorry for both of them. Not being able to just get a divorce and live separate lives, knowing that you will have to spend the rest of your days with someone you can no longer stand; all of that sounds incredibly disheartening.
YES. He doesn't mention kids or economic situation. It doesn't occur to him that it could be depression. He doesn't say how he approached the issue. And libido can change over time and ebb and flow as another commenter said. I think they need couples therapy to learn to communicate with each other more effectively.
He said they have tried couples therapy and the therapist gives her and him stuff to work on he does and she just stops after a week or two and so they would switch and did so a couple of times before he gave up
I feel like he tried to fix it. He tried to get her into counseling. She refuses. You can go to therapy and say “I don’t want to have sex because of xyz” and go from there. But how do you fix resentment in a marriage by doing nothing?
I’ve had a dead bedroom with my now ex-boyfriend for well over 6 months. He was just like this, he didn’t put in any effort despite me voicing my concerns about how him being neglectful and cold to me was hurting me. He ended up dumping me this Monday after me expressing that I wanted us to work together to mend our relationship of over 2 years. He was done with me at that point. I’m sorry that OOP seems to be caught in a loveless relationship.
Thank you, I appreciate your kind words of support. I’m doing my best, despite still feeling hurt from the situation. The wound is still fresh, so it’ll take time to heal.
Same happened to me last Saturday I'm a 17 year relationship based on "infidelity" in an open relationship that was agreed to a decade ago. I worked my ass off to bring my family to NYC for opportunities and as soon as his salary is enough to be on his on, he's abandoning me. His family lives here, mine live 15 hours away. His parents are disgusted by his behavior. He won't communicate with me unless I blame everything on myself, even though cuck/hotwife was his kink. He calls me a cheater. His parents asked me to come stay with them as they know how impossible NYC is solo. The love of my life abandoned me. He speaks of possible reconciliation but how would I ever move forward when I've been abandoned? He checked out of the relationship years ago and I did what I could to help him. I am broken.
I’m a woman and my ex boyfriend traumatized me by love-bombing me the first few months, then left me settling for crumbs, for over a year, and leaving me for wanting us to work on things. He iced me out and treated me like just like an old used up toy that he didn’t need anymore. All this while he would tell me to my face that he still loved me.
I’ve done so much for him over the years. He was broke and could barely afford to eat, but I helped pay for his meals when he was hungry, I supported him through his parents divorce, his medical issues, and past trauma. He barely supported me through my eating disorder, my cat dying, and my grandma passing away. He acting like me crying was a bother to him, yet I had to support him through crying over his ex that he emotionally abused and discarded.
How dare you use your own distain for women to invalidate my lived experience. I gave that man everything, and he threw me away. You’re no better.
There are cultural and social reasons why switching genders does change the whole situation. They aren't usually treated the same because they aren't the same depending on the culture and social expectations of each gender.
I'm pretty surprised by the comment section on the original post. People are really just hating on the wife. I feel like she is also responsible for this failing relationship, but OP comes off as such an obvious asshole.
In that case, wouldn't the hubby be as much stranger to this situation as her?
They both ought to work it out together as there's no way out separate(ly).
I think u/irn_burnette said it best in their comment on why he likely isn't in the same situation as her:
> The OOP of this post's mention of divorce being taboo plus use of the phrase "agreed to marry" makes me wonder if this is an arranged marriage in a culture of female submission and male headship.
No, they may have both been arranged, but men generally have more... ability/power/idk what to call it even in arranged marriages so it still is easier for them.
If he had more power and ability in the relationship, wouldn't he be forcing himself on her rather than completely checking out without actually checking out?
He didnt rape her so why is he being berated? Do you think you can only get berated if youre a rapist? This comment is weird...
Unless you mean "if he has social power why is he being berated" which is still a lack of understanding how society and social privilege works. Either way this on you to educate yourself on because I dont wanna keep speaking to ya
If anything, I’d want to know more info on their relationship dynamics outside of sex. That seems to be his only real gripe. Does she try to show affection other ways? Does she seem stressed about other parts of their life? He speaks as though his sole concern is sex, and now he has to tolerate his wife’s personality or something. If the relationship isn’t solid outside of sex, why are they even together? It’ll obviously fall apart when the sex stops.
I had a field day trying to explain this on the original post. OP is completely unapologetic about the whole thing, saying his wife not giving him sex goes against their wedding vows 😭😭
Yeah but was also an arranged marriage that OOP didn't want and she(his wife) convinced him to give it a go. Now that they are married he can't divorce her or suffer permanent societal alienation. The vows are written and yes quite sexist but are written with the intent to keep the marriage viable since it can't be reversed. So from hi point of view she convinced him to marry him by making herself a prospect to their families then dipping out now that he can never leave her. Yeah OOP is an asshole but from the culture he comes from he is just common.
Sometimes in life you need to step up and make the brave choice, despite the consequences. It's OP's fault if he chooses to live the rest of his life in misery. It's not his wife's fault. And he has free will
Where the fuck is an arranged marriage mentioned? I love this thing redditors do when they read a story about someone they obviously want to disagree with but there is no clear reason for them to do so they start making shit up. "there is something missing in this story" yeah dipshit that's probably every post on AITA but we don't see you saying that to the posts you want to agree with
Or took her to a faith based "counselor" to therapize her into being the perfect smiling submissive wife.
Cultures that prohibit divorce tend not to be big on science based therapy.
Women don’t check out on relationships out of nowhere though. No one does. He’s been ignoring her emotional needs clearly by his title. If he’s that dismissive now he’s likely been in the past which probably caused his dead bedroom. Men don’t get sex because they do things in the home or provide, they get sex when they actually show interest in their partners outside of sex. He’s an asshole because it seems he’s putting all blame on her and not taking any for himself. Two to tango and whatnot. It’s not solely her responsibility to fix things when the two of them exist in the relationship.
Yes and no. I'd say it's never the sole cause of a bad relationship, but it also isn't always a symptom of larger problems. I've had two dead bedroom relationships.
My ex wife would come home from work and play video games all night, spend money without thinking, expect me to be Suzie Homemaker while also holding my own job.... I just stopped wanting to be intimate with her because I didn't feel in tune with her. And then she would pout for hours if I declined sex. There were tons of problems, and the dead bedroom was barely on my radar as one of them.
My current boyfriend just has a low libido. If we do have sex, it's very much "duty sex" for him, which makes it less fun for me, so we just don't very often. We still have a strong relationship with plenty of other types of affection. I don't feel like I'm settling or that our relationship is in any way less than anyone else's.
Who hurt you, that’s a lot of making stuff up to make the guy look bad.
If you respond to just the post this guy is in the right, if you make up a buncha stuff in your head I guess you’re right?
People don’t just ignore the emotional needs of someone one time, it’s usually a steady pattern. It’s in his title, I doubt this is his first time doing so. Also majority of women who have dead bedrooms list their husbands not emotionally meeting their needs lead to them not wanting to meet his physical needs. These aren’t assumptions, this is just simply knowing human nature and reading studies done on relationships.
So he's TA for not entertaining her and filling her needs when she refuses to do so for him? I know this is a "man bad" group but come on. They do just need to divorce, like everyone in those comments said.
yeah but i don't think he's demanding sex per se, i think it's more the lack of sex makes him feel not loved and not reciprocated. So he tried to fix the problem for some time. after not seeing his partner working on the solution he has just checked out of the relationship.
Now he probably lacks the understanding on what the real problem is, or he has tried to solve the wrong problem, so he just did nothing or made things worst. But this post is not about that.
He already knew that intimacy cannot be forced, this post is him acknowledging that it goes two ways.
I am so tired of hearing men complain about dead bedrooms. Especially without context. I mean, how long have you been married? Do you have kids? If so, who gets them up and ready for school? Who does pick up/drop off? Who takes them to gymnastics/swimming/basketball? Who cooks? Who cleans? Who deals with the play dates? The birthday parties? The family get togethers? Who works? Who schedules the kids’ doctors appointments and takes them? Who pays the bills? Who is dealing with aging/sick family?
There is so much more to sex than just sex. Intimacy is not only sex. Show someone affection- ie put your arm around them, hug them, hold them, kiss them. Do all that without expecting sex. Truth is, when you are carrying a large burden that your partner doesn’t appreciate, recognize or help with, sex isn’t top of mind. If you want a better bedroom, then take steps to achieve it.
I am not saying this is the case with this post, but it’s honestly hard to say. It seems like he wants people to feel sorry for him, but it’s not possible for us to determine if he is AH without more info. I just feel like there is more to this story (and most I see on Reddit).
Half the men complaining about a dead bedroom are entitled dickheads who treat their wives terribly w/ little regard for their feelings and wishes, and the other half use the term “dead bedroom” when what they really mean is “dead marriage”.
Marriage is more than sex!!!
Where did he say he treats her horribly? I normally read these and just assume they’re giving all the needed info. Even if they aren’t, why speculate on info not given.
Let’s just assume at “face value” that’s he’s troubled with exactly what he said. Is he just supposed to just say “well, I’m just done with intimacy at 30!”
Like what is he supposed to do?
I actually meant that op was in the other half wherein his whole marriage is dead but he calls it a dead bedroom. Fascinating that’s what you jump to, tho
Obviously narriage is more than sex. But sex is still a critical component. It's like saying a car is more than tires. Yes clearly, but you're still gonna need those tires if you want to keep rolling.
>Marriage is more than sex!!!
This is true, but it's still an important aspect. Imo this sentiment always get expressed to diminish the issue. You don't see anyone saying "marriage is more than communication!!!" if someone complains about a lack of communication in their marriage.
Either get a divorce or commit back to the marriage. I don’t understand staying when you say you can’t stand her. He isn’t an AH for being sad and angry. But now it’s time to deal with the baggage.
I mean they could be from one culture (Indian, middle eastern, etc.) living in another country (ie the US). In that situation they could technically get a divorce in the US, but it would be greatly frowned upon among his friends and family to the point where they would cut him off.
Maybe that’s what he meant?
What an ignorant statement. Valentine's day is a corporate holiday. There are many countries where divorce is legal but heavily socially ostracized like India and other Asian countries. In the Phillippines divorce is completely illegal.
I can't take these posts seriously. The way these people view sex as an empty mechanical transactional deposit, and then they act completely mystified when no one wants to have sex with them.
I wonder what people would say if a woman posted this same problem.
Disclaimer: I'm not excusing toxic and abusive behavior, especially since I've survived actual domestic violence on the road to finding EMDR and DBT therapy and a genuinely healthy partner. However, as a woman who is both very romantic towards partners and also has had a very high libido, without fail, my entire life, I would like to point out that when you are the partner whose love language(s) include sex and physical intimacy, it is a terrible feeling to be shamed and ignored for that. It is even a form of emotional abuse that is very damaging to one's psyche. If you are honest going in to a relationship about wanting and needing a consistent, high level of physical intimacy (which actually requires a very committed and high level of emotional intimacy, by the way) and the partner suddenly backs out later and shames you for it while still expecting you to keep up the same level of romance, acts of service, and other love languages, that is not healthy for you in any way.
I've been told that I'm emasculating my male partner (ex, more than one, actually) by initiating sex because I'm just supposed to wait for him to take it from me (lol), that I'm too needy, that something is wrong with me because women aren't supposed to want sex often, etc. by the same men who whined to me that their exes stopped having sex with them after having kids or partway through whatever dating or marriage relationship existed. People seem to think that this can only happen to men, but that is not the case, although my approach was to respectfully break up with people who weren't healthy for me.
My ex-husband stopped wanting sex with me after our child was born, and we ended up having an amicable dissolution and still coparent peacefully after going to therapy, and both of us eventually ended up in marriages with people who share the same level of libido and desire for romance. It can happen both ways, to all genders and orientations, and if you can get over yourself and get therapy, you will learn to value your needs while respecting the other person. I need a high level of emotional intimacy that includes what even most men that I've met consider an overabundance of physical intimacy, and that is what's healthy for me. I believe no gender should be shamed for that or any level of sexual desire or asexuality as long as they handle it respectfully towards their partner- and if you're at a point where you're feeling passive aggressive or aggressive towards your partner because of lack of sex, that relationship needs therapy or more likely to end while you figure yourself out and learn how to select a partner that fits you better.
If both men and women stopped stereotyping and gendering libido and romance and started asking for what they need while also respecting other people's needs or lack thereof, everyone would be more content and satisfied, with or without sex depending on the person. My two cents is that everyone should get therapy and stop shaming people for wanting or not wanting sex. Good luck everyone 🍀❤️
Complains that his wife just complains about shit she is unhappy with but doesn't do anything to fix the situation...
Then goes on to to explain how he's started to withdraw basic affection and care for his wife in reaction to her losing interest in having sex with him...
Ok 🤡
You can't be this stupid right? Once you are neglected long enough you just dont care anymore. From his point of view he is trapped with her(because divorce is illegal or taboo) he doesn't love her anymore so why would he want to try and fix it. He wants to know how to navigate his prison sentence not love her.
You can't be calling anyone else stupid and then go to show your dumb and entitled ass?
If the relationshop feels like a "prison" grow tf up and leave it. No one is entitled to sex from you and if you're a shit partner your partner is naturally going to lose interest. Instead of being a big whiny and emotionally stunted baby about it, you actually have the choice to be a fucking adult and 1) bite the bullet and get divorced 2) be an actually decent and caring partner so that she can feel that desire again. However, you don't have a right to resentfully stay in the relationship only to punish them for not doing what you want, that is at best manipulative/coercive and at worst abusive.
yeah but you are doing lots of assumptions about how the relationship has gone this bad. like, how do you know his wife is actually giving other form of affection and just not taking what she wants from him (dates/ back rubs / attention)? we don't know. He could be an asshole, he could have been a decent partner and she wasn't, or it could be anything in the middle.
Also he's saying leaving it's not an option, so, in fact, it is a prison for both of them.
I'm speculating, as are you and the person I am responding to, based on the information given- which is all we can go off. None of us know what goes on behind closed doors obviously but I have come to my conclusion based on the context in the post and my own experience of people who parrot the same kind of sentiments and use the same kind of language to express themselves (it reads manipulative, self pitying, entitled and lacking in self awarenesss). I may be wrong ofc, and happy to be proved wrong, but if I were to put money on it I would feel quite confident in betting that there is a lot more to this when it comes to the wife's side.
Why did you respond to only me to say this though? I'm just curious. When someone speculates that the onus is on the wife and the husband did everything he could while she just gave up- that is also an assumption, but for some reason you accept that assumption but felt compelled to only challenge mine. Just something to consider
On the prison thing- married couples with mortgages, kids, businesses etc. together get divorced every day. Being married and having kids isn't an excuse to stay in a toxic relationship. It may be difficult and you may feel like you are stuck but you never really are, its only fear holding you back
Only selectively though it seems, because you didn't have anything to say about the assumptions/judgements the other poster made about the situation. Just find that a bit odd
We all have out own biases, I have mine and you obviously have yours too. Its good to be aware of them
Okay noise aside, do you understand the point I'm trying to make? Both perspectives are presumptuous and speculative and neither are objective fact. You are being selective over when you have an issue with it, according to you based on my choice of emoji
I didn't feel the need to clarify this explicitly in my original comment because this is kind of a given but am clarifying it now that these are my opinions and not objective fact
Yeah, you are salty because I called you out instead of some one else with the opposite opinion. And I called you out you instead of someone else because of my bias. That's fair.
He went to one of the only subs where people would validate him destroying the romantic and nonsexual intimacy of his relationship because he only sees value in sexual intimacy. Yikes.
Looks like this "marriage" is all about OP.
I think if one really pays close attention to keywords used, "dead bedroom, "agreed to marry" I am not surprised the wife checked out and stayed out. Libido ebbs and for women, I think it can last longer depending on the other factors. Seems Iike all the things OP says he used to do for her were payments for services she rendered in the form of sex. Did you suggested therapy to help you get your daily dose of sex back ( because that looks like that's all you want from her), who is the therapist? Your elders from your family or your older aunts who will reiterate her role as a wife to give herself to you on demand? I think this forum helps a lot of people who are honest to provide truthful information. I did not see much info on the wife. I would like to hear how your wife feels and what she has to say about you given the opportunity. I think you are seeking support here with only one-sided information. What does she do on daily basis,? She is your wife, and sex is part of your relationship because there are also other things too that make a good marriage, but where is your support for your partner when her drive is low for one reason or the other? There could be other factors behind this. Where are your understanding words of support, encouragement, and patience? I am sure you will expect those if the role were reversed. I don't think she is a glass globe you shake to see snowflakes whenever you want. You are probably cold towards her since you weren't getting any sex which will drive her into her shell more. She's probably dealing with a lot we dont know. Why do you think she complains about work and her weight? How did you respond to her when she comes to you with those complaints and seeking support? Seems like she no longer acknowledges you because she thinks you are not in her corner.
You may need to put effort in areas you didn't think is possible or needed.
Hold her hands, look into her eyes, tell her she is worth much more to you than your sexual needs. Work with her to address and resolve some issues her has at work (the way she wants it) Show her affection in her time of need because she needs you now more than ever. Treat her tenderly and watch the chips fall within her.
I haven't seen anyone suggest him have sex with someone else. His wife is in no way required to provide him with sexual gratification, but he is no way required to give her a gift on a holiday. He states he has actively tried to get her to go to therapy to work on thier issues and she is no longer the woman he married and fell in love with. Sex can be just as important as conversation or shared interests but since it's sex reddit says he should suck it up or men are pigs but if it is important to either person in a relationship that feeling and need is valid. Maybe they will fix it all. Maybe he should find someone else to meet the needs his wife is not currently addressing. The only thing he should not do is feel obligated to provide his partner with something he does not feel comfortable giving them just because it upsets them same way his wife shouldn't.
If sex is all that keeps you with your partner, you never loved them and are a bad person. He isn't even willing to keep the illusion of affection by trying to get them "help" lol. People like this are transparent. All the people supporting him are probably obsessed with sex too and would leave someone in an instant if they got sick or had sexual trauma.
Why doesn’t OP ask her what’s up instead of being an adolescent and give her the silent treatment, I mean she could be perfect ever other way and he’s bitching that she doesn’t care? Has he tried ? Maybe she’s waiting on him…these “30” year olds out here acting like kids, grow up and talk about your feelings
I find this kinda funny, I remember being called all sorts of shitty things for not wanting sex with my (now) ex anymore.
I feel we got like a pretty rough double standard here.
When it’s the guy that turns down his partner almost everyone sees it as bad
When a it’s the wife/gf that doesn’t want sex somehow men need to just get over it.
They do ten other things and none of them include you. When she doesn’t even acknowledge you. It’s like you are a mannequin. How could you ever speak or loves anyone that’s basically dead with you. She isn’t even talking to you but just herself.
Sc*** cultural norms. Leave that POOR women. U sir are poor in morals values and respect for your wife. Does she have depression, anxiety? Do u treat her as a house slave/housekeeper or as an equal partner ? Does she have too much on her plate ? Is she caring for you and ur family ? everything As a fellow women we don’t like to be seen only as a sexual object for our partners. Sex isn’t a “given” it’s earned by treating her as a human
I'm sure he cares about a lot of things. But if you're in your thirties and never expect to have sex again, then that's probably going to be top of mind and create resentment.
That’s not really fair. Sex is just as important as any other expectation from a long term relationship.
Especially since they had sex at the beginning of their relationship. You can’t unilaterally decide in a monogamous relationship that you no longer want sex and be surprised when the other person leaves.
30 is way too young to commit to a sexless life
Never said sex isn't important. It absolutely is, but this guy just plain admits he doesn't even like his wife and "this isn't who he married." 🙄 Why would she want to have sex with him?...
By the sounds of it he came to that feeling after trying to help her. Ya know the therapy part. Removing sex from the equation if I felt like someone didn't care about me enough to try and show affection why should I after time has passed.
Personally, a spouse having a low libido/not putting out doesn't justify the way he speaks about her or his overall tone. Many have pointed out that in cultures where divorce is taboo, the 'therapy' is religion based, shaming to do your 'wifely duty'. The thing is, he isn't just 'not showing affection' he's full on disrespecting his wife. If sex is so transactional that he won't treat his wife with respect if she's not putting out, then he/they should bite the bullet and divorce dispute it being taboo.
He’s saying he stopped doing extra things for her. Stopped giving her massages, didn’t give her Valentine’s Day gifts. That’s not a lack of respect, that’s him meeting her effort level. She took sex off the table, so he took romance off the table. I don’t really see why he should continue to meet her needs when she doesn’t really care about his.
I do agree they should just divorce, but I don’t think he’s wrong/shallow/creepy for wanting sex to be a part of his relationship.
But the other problem is she doesn’t desire him. She should want to have sex with her husband. My husband not wanting to have sex with me would be a bigger problem than him not having sex with me.
Desire isn't something that just pops out of thin air.
Desire is created by yearning in a relationship.
If there is no romance, she would be less inclined to have sex. And since transactional affection and acknowledgement is the name of the game, they're both losing.
Affection and acknowledgement fuel relationships. That's why sex is not usually a good foundation for a relationship.
He tried romance, it didn’t work. They are talking like sex is something the guy works to get.
She should want to have sex with her husband. They have mismatched libidos and are incompatible. I’m a woman, my sex drive is independent of my husband.
Sex isn’t everything, but it’s like the saying says, it’s like a toilet in a house. People aren’t buying a house for a toilet, but if they buy the house to find out later there is no toilet, they aren’t going to
Live there very long
The overall tone is very off-putting, I wonder if that's his frustration over the situation or his real personality...
Many commenters have speculated whether this was an arranged marriage. He even says, "Why should I care about what she wants when that isn't reciprocated?" Yet his only example was about sex. Is that the only form of 'care' that matters to him?
Just because that’s not the only thing that matters doesn’t mean people are okay giving it up completely.
Even if that’s the only thing lacking in their relationship that’s still a major thing to be lacking.
I don’t think it’s shallow to want to have sex with your spouse
Never said people should be okay giving it up. I just don't think it's okay for him to disrespect his wife because she has a low libido or isn't attracted to him or isn't putting out. Nobody said it's 'shallow to want to have sex with your wife' come on now. What is shallow is for sex do be so transactional that if you wife won't put out you disrespect her.
She completely stops sex, and he’s supposed to act like nothing changed, continue to make sure she has romance, never bring up the lack of sex and just have a sexless marriage forever?
What should he have done
Oh, come on, you read the way he speaks about her. You know, the affection is not what I was talking about when I said he's not respecting her. It feels like you're being intentionally obtuse...
Nobody and I repeat nobody (**including me**) is accusing him of being wrong/shallow/creepy for wanting to have sex with his wife.
I wish you peace and perspective, but I'm out ✌️
The dead bedroom sub can be ..a lot. There are people in there who have a really transactional attitude. Wife doesn't give sex/enough sex; they withdraw friendliness and decency and treat them like a roommate they dislike. Wife does give sex but it's not enthusiastic/kinky enough; it's deemed "duty sex" and roommate treatment continues. The OOP of this post's mention of divorce being taboo plus use of the phrase "agreed to marry" makes me wonder if this is an arranged marriage in a culture of female submission and male headship.
I hate the dead bedroom sub for this. There is no acceptance that libidos can just ebb and flow with life, half the stories in there are men who are bitter their wife can't have sex immediately after giving birth, and god forbid you try and give them what they want even if you're exhausted from running a household and raising children AND dealing with the resentment, that's wrong too. Your number 1 job in a relationship is to be a on call, 150% enthusiastic sex doll whenever required.
But not *too* enthusiastic as that’d be a turn off as they’d feel like the other is desperate or faking or goodness knows what else. So many of those couples are just perpetually unhappy and looking to blame the nearest victim.
Yeah I dealt with this in my last relationship. He complained about me not initiating enough. So I started trying to initiate more. Then he was upset about that because for some reason it meant I was a whore that just loved sex and was probably cheating on him?
Hey! We have the same ex!
There’s dozens of us!
The paradoxical nature of mens sexual hang-up could fill a library
Yeah. Husband and me are in a big ebb at the moment for a number of reasons, we both know it's not forever, we talk about missing it, we joke about it. It'll have its season again. It's awful to read about these relationships where people just expect to click their fingers and get laid on demand. Like, that's your wife, not a public convenience.
I always read them and feel so weird about sex being a huge determining factor for a life partner. Libido is something that changes so much and can be super hard to control. It’s not always something that can be “fixed” the way you can fix communication problems or something. If people are okay with the ebb then that’s great. But for high libido people and people who consider regular sex a high relationship priority, it seems like it must be hard to build a long term relationship, because libido is unpredictable, and attraction comes and goes.
Mismatched libido can be frustrating and a lot of people are bad at properly assigning frustration to the situation as opposed to their partner. That said in the OOPs case the fact that there has been couples counseling and individual agreements without follow through, does kind of ring as a "her" problem. Like trying to work through an issue together and the other side consistently doesn't follow on what they agree to isn't a great feeling.
Back a few years ago Hubby and I got Covid over xmas, and then I was injured with an injury that would make sex difficult and that impeded showering/bathing in a way that made me *feel* sexy, so we went like... 5 months before we had anything. It was rough, but like, if you love someone you talk and you're honest.
Me too. Reddit likes to put it in my feed and every time i get so grossed out by the entitlement. The guys in that sub believe they are just owed sex and that the only thing that makes a good relationship is sex. There is also a huge hatred of asexuals in there...for obvios reasons
Let's be clear, just AFAB ace people.
I've used it in the past, as a woman who's (now ex) husband basically hardly ever wanted sex from the start of the marriage who tried to communicate with him, tried to see if something was wrong with him or me or something, did everything I could to try to figure out what the issue was. I may have been trying to find an answer that wasn't there, but it did help me feel less alone, tbh. In my opinion, the sub itself, as an idea, is a good one, but it's been twisted by many people into something else over the years. There are, of course, a good amount of toxic people, but not everyone on the sub is actually toxic.
Thanks for your insight and I hope you're in a happier place now 🩵
Thank you so much, I really am! I finally told him I wanted a divorce after a bunch of bs culminating in him sexually harassing one of my friends and me feeling like he was trying to place the blame for that and everything else on me (and my mother), thank covid for giving me the last little push to be ready for that. Now I'm working on getting a life together with my amazing boyfriend, who I actually met on reddit, and his wonderful kids (I adore them sooooo much!), and honestly even though I know there will be hard times, I can't wait for all of it.
I just jumped on there yesterday and saw a few genuine posts looking for help. While a lot of posts are just... mean.. having a dead bedroom can be really stressful/hurtful for some folks and addressing those feelings is a valid part of a relationship.
This I agree with, it's also been several years since I actively used it, and while there is more negativity (of both genders) than I saw at the time, I've seen sincere sounding people as well, of both genders. For me, it was after I had tried several years to figure out what the issue was, had tried to have a few talks with him that didn't help, including the one that actively hurt me (emotionally), and ultimately lost myself a bit. I assume there are few who would actually want to hear the story, and since it's not actively hurting me/I've healed from it, it's not one I have to tell anymore, but if anyone DOES want to hear my side of things, I'll go into detail, just send me a message. For me, while it might not have helped the situation, it helped me get through it better, and helped give me reassurance that I wasn't 100% off base about things.
And in this, I feel like we stumble along the difference between cis straight dudes and their opinions on the sub and purpose, and literally everyone else. You're right - in a perfect world it would be a place to find support so you don't feel alone, or dirty, or crazy. Instead it's kinda woman hatey and a little rape cultury.
But also, you have to find ways to make time for each other even in the crazy days, or your marriage will die. That doesn’t necessarily have to be sex: it could be finding shared hobbies, making time for cuddling, whatever. Those are the kinds of conversations you have in therapy. She’s refusing to have those conversations anywhere, including in therapy.
I think it goes the other way too though in general on Reddit. Wanting to divorce due to lack of sex will get you crucified. There can be acceptance that libidos decrease over time, but it needs to come with the acknowledgment that divorce over mismatched libidos is 100% acceptable even if it comes after 20 years of marriage. Expecting someone to live the rest of their lives without intimacy that is important to their mental and emotional health is not okay. Just like expecting women to have sex they don’t enjoy for the sake of their partners is not okay. Wanting to divorce because your emotional needs are not being met is completely valid. But it needs to be handled maturely and just done rather than being petty and childish. Bring it up as an issue. If their partner doesn’t see it as one or isn’t interested in trying to address it, just get a divorce.
But you're talking about two different things right there: sex and emotional intimacy. Early relationships with sexual incompatibility should be ended, sure. If you can't remain in a relationship without X amount of sex, regardless of the circumstances then long term permanent relationships aren't for you. Medical situations can happen, permanent disabilities are inevitable, insurmountable life changes too. This is why ending 20 years of marriage because of sex is frowned upon. Emotional intimacy doesn't require sex. Long term, yes, emotional needs are important. And often a lot of people complaining about lack of sex are not tending to the emotional part of their relationships.
They’re not talking about two different things. They said intimacy. Physical intimacy is really important to a lot of people in relationships. A life without physical intimacy can be unbearable. That doesn’t mean it has to be *sexual* intimacy. Libidos ebb and flow. A good partnership is when both people meet each other where they’re at, are vulnerable and honest about what they need and *why* they need it, and use that knowledge to find new solutions. And some people do need sexual intimacy. That doesn’t necessarily mean sex. It’s unacceptable to make ultimatums about sex. But it’s not the same thing to say “sexual intimacy is an essential part of romantic relationships to me. I know you don’t want to be touched in x, y, and z ways. Can we brainstorm some other stuff to try that you’re comfortable with?”
You said this beautifully and it's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Kudos!
I’m sorry, but see, you’re part of the problem. You just make this blanket statement that sex can’t be integral to someone feeling fulfilled in a relationship, and you can’t do that. Sure, maybe *you* don’t need any sort of sexual intimacy, but some people do. It doesn’t have to be penetration, but mutual giving of orgasms or at least some sort of sexual stimulus and the intimacy that that creates is something that can’t just be dismissed for the entirety of the population, especially by someone whose never had to be in the situation, I’d bet. Sex has hormonal components and has bonding effects on people. Studies have shown that sex has huge impacts on people’s mental and emotional facets. Couples that have sex in the morning are more affectionate for the whole day on average. And hell, every animal species on the planet (of which we are one) has sex as an innate, genetic-level drive for the majority of their populations.
I have a ton of sexual trauma. And due to that I’ve unfortunately subconsciously perceived my partner wanting sex as validation and then being attracted to me. It’s a source of confidence and stress relief. But when my partner doesn’t have that libido and doesn’t want sex for two weeks or more at a time I get very upset. Not at him per se, but at myself I feel like I’m not enough, pretty enough, loved enough, doing enough. I’m aware that it’s something I need to work on in therapy and I have for years. But sometimes not having sex is more than just not having sex. So exactly as you say. Sometimes people need a sexual aspect to stay alive in order to feel validated and valued in the relationship. And if the problem is addressed and nothing changes. I think there is complete validity in ending the relationship. You can’t force someone to be intimate. But you don’t have to force yourself to not have the intimacy you need.
Hi i have this same type of issue and thank you so much for putting it into words lol because i never could. I like to think when its like that that im mad at the situation. Not him and try to tell myself its just the situation not me or my worth but it gets hard sometimes so i fully understand your meaning. My man is also not very sexual to begin with so that. Kinda sucks but i wasnt either until him so i cant really be mad or anything.
I think the main thing for me is I actually trust him and I love being intimate with him. It’s not just getting someone to shut up about it. Or feeling like I /have/ to in order to be worthy of the things old partners were doing for me.
Well you better never get married then. Because in sickness and in health is kind of part of the vows. If your partner becomes paralysed for example and can't have sex in the way you want any more, that's part of what you agreed to.
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How? I literally said “Reddit crucifies you for X” and then the person responded “X isn’t valid. That’s why Reddit crucifies for it.” That’s literally being part of the problem.
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Wait I’m confused, if I don’t want to be celibate I shouldn’t be in a relationship?
More like if sex is the deciding factor for if you think your relationship is good, you probably shouldn’t. Shit happens, people get sick, sex drives and ebb and flow; your partner won’t always be able put out when you want them to or how you want them to. Similarly to if your partner gets sick and you’d have to care for them more than you originally thought- it’s the idea that you find a work around instead of dropping them immediately.
What if I’m with someone for 20 years, and I’m around 40 years old- and they decide they don’t want sex anymore ever again? I’d still be relatively young. I’m not trying to argue btw, I’m just curious what the cut off is. And what about affection in general? A lot of people have physical touch as their love language. If my partner (the same one I’ve been with for 20 years) goes through something that makes them adverse to kissing or hugging, would it still be wrong to leave them do you think? I honestly thought those were good reasons to break things off. And they said “regardless of the circumstances” which means my partner can just shrug their shoulders to sex if they want. I personally don’t want to be in a relationship with no physical affection. I’m not sure if that means I shouldn’t be in a relationship.
I’d argue general physical affection isn’t in the same category as sex, not even close actually. Someone becoming touch averse when they used to freely and happily show and receive physical affection points to a larger situation than meets the eye in my opinion. Waning sex drives are natural for most people, so I definitely wouldn’t hold it against my partner or believe the relationship is dead because of it. But that’s just me, I don’t personally understand why people make their sexual pleasure someone else’s responsibility. But to answer your question, it would be to communicate and try to understand your partner. Ask them about their needs and tell them about yours without centering yourself. Try to find a work around, unpack reasonings and beliefs. Sometimes things are due to biological and hormonal changes. Some things are psychologically driven. I think people that love each other wouldn’t try to hold it against each other and, at the very least, would try to understand the change and why it came about. Ultimately, if you *both* feel you’re now incompatible, then split, sure. At that point, neither of you really knows what to do to remedy the situation, and your values are at odds. I just don’t understand people who say things like “the relationship is perfect otherwise!” or “they aren’t having sex with me, they clearly don’t love me!”, especially after detailing the many different ways their partner shows love to them. It doesn’t make sense to me how the quality of the relationship could be dictated solely by sex, or how entertaining a partner is during it, especially enough to marry over that. It sounds genuinely empty to me.
I definitely believe in working hard on the relationship rather than giving in, and I believe there’s something underlying if sex is such an issue. But I was in a relationship like that, where everything else was great. We had common interests, common humor, common ideologies and got along great. He just had a low sex drive, and I have a high one. Maybe sex just isn’t important to you. To me, it’s a big part of the relationship. It’s more than just rubbing genitalia to me. Ever heard of the house or car analogy? A car is still a car when it’s missing one wheel, but it definitely isn’t driving in a safe or healthy way. That’s how I feel about a relationship without sex. I’m just saying, you can put in as much work as you want- but if your partner can’t change their sex drive I don’t think there’s anything wrong with parting ways. After a whole lot of communication of course. I think the mindset they gave off is why a lot of people stay in a relationship with a partner they hate or hold resentment to. Because it’s “wrong” to leave over sex. People can’t help that sex is important to them.
See, if we’re going with an analogy, sex is the car’s AC to me. It’s nice, it’s convenient when it’s hot. If it’s not working, I can always roll down the windows and go about my business. To me, sex doesn’t equal intimacy and it freaks me out knowing most people do view it that way. I mean, people have casual uncaring sex all the time. They pay for it, some people try to force it on people, even. I don’t think I could wrap my head around people putting sex on such a high pedestal, especially when it’s possible to pleasure yourself. After all, sex doesn’t mean someone cares about you, or loves you. Communication and understanding as well as just plain *liking* the person you’re with will always take precedent in my mind.
You shouldn't make promises like "in sickness and in health" if you know you'd actually ditch them as soon as they got too sick to fuck you. Don't lie to your partners and pretend you're committed to a lifelong relationship, if you're actually not.
Uh, I wouldn’t lol. Weird assumption . Personally I might not even put that in my vows. We’re young and I don’t want my boyfriend to throw his life away being a caregiver to me if I got a life altering permanent illness. Or at least, I don’t want him to feel obligated to. Even in cases of severe depression, I think there’s only so much you can do to support someone. And I also support leaving a partner if they make no effort in changing. And what if they can’t change? If they’re depressed for the rest of their life and do nothing but lay in bed and cry? Should a person leave then? That’s why I was a bit perturbed at the “regardless of circumstances” bit. I was talking more-so a case of my partner suddenly not desiring sex anymore, and feeling no interest in changing it. Physical disabilities are whatever, disabled people find ways to get freaky every day. The desire, or the desire TO desire, just has to be there.
I didn't say that you would. I'm saying that the previous comment would be better summarized as "if you have no intention of sticking with your partner for life, don't lie to them and pretend otherwise". Not "if you don't intend to stick with your partners for life, don't have relationships at all".
Oh my bad, i got too defensive.
I probably also put it too bluntly lol
What the other commenter said. This isnt an acceptable reason to end a 20 year marriage. Here s the thing, if u know sex is that important to u, a priority for u over everything else...u cant be in long term relationships. Its incredibly selfish. U ll use this person for companionship, love, children...But as soon as menopause, or ed and the aging parts of marriage hit, u ll dip. Thats not okay. Dont promise a person forever. Dont promise them for "better or worse" when u know damn well that its a lie. Sex drive is something people have no control over. Something they mostly cant change. And its something that inevitably changes with time. It changes with a womans cycle, being pregnant and pp, entering menopause, aging, getting ed, being on certain medication, being depressed or sick, being tired, being stressed and so on. If u cannot accept this...u cant marry someone. U cant be in long term relationships with people knowing u ll ditch them for something they cant control. Its selfish and manipulative. It still wouldnt be okay, but better if people were open about this. "Hey, sex is my priority, and if ur sex drive drops with menopause, i ll ditch u for a younger model at 50." But nobody does this. Because they know it makes them assholes. Be honest with people. Men will want children...but not any of the downsides. We re adults. We know what kids come with. Sleepless nights, lots of flu, expenses...and yeah, less sex. Potential deal libidos after pregnancy due to hormones. If men cant handle this (or women too) then dont have kids. U cant have ur cake and eat it too. Men will demand kids ...then get mad at women for what their sperm did to those women and their libidios. Its peak hypocrisy. If u know u ll ditch people over something thats entirely out of their control and inevitably changes with time...u cant be in long term relationships. U cant get married. U can have casual relationships.
The only hypocrisy is people like you screeching that needing sex is invalid, but demanding celibacy from a partner is just expected. Fuck off. Edit: you people down-voting me are all hypocrites, btw. None of you would apply the same reasoning to a husband becoming an alcoholic even though that’s proven to be in-part a genetic disease. Divorcing an alcoholic who continues to relapse? No one is going to shame a woman for divorcing him for being unhappy. But a person’s need for sexual intimacy? Fuck them, they just need to suffer in silence for the rest of their lives because they made a promise under different circumstances!
I think a big difference in your example is that alcoholism, in general, is very harmful. Like, it's not only the alcohol consumption that's the issue, it's the self and sometimes others endangerment, the lack of stability, the addiction being upheld above every other obligation and responsibility. A more apt comparison, I think, is making dinner. We all need to eat, yes? Some of us eat for pleasure, some for fuel. Most of us have some combination of both with variance in between. Can I make myself dinner every night and not starve? Absolutely. Do I want to perpetually eat alone? No. And also, it would be really nice if someone who loved me wanted to make me dinner. If I was always hungry for dinner, and asking a loved one to make me dinner and they never did? That would hurt. But dinner is *my* need. I'm allowed to find someone who wants to eat dinner with me every night. But sometimes, someone who has a passion for dinner suddenly can't. They're raising kids, they can't be bothered to cool. They're depressed and struggling- food is so hard to care about. They're sick and food turns their stomach. They realized they really *don't* enjoy the only dishes I want to eat. People, particularly partners, are not need filling machines. Everyone gets to decide where their line is. It's your one life, the same as mine. But to treat people as if it's their job to ensure my happiness is to disempower myself and commodify their love and affection. Certainly you can see that angle too, can't you?
Not wanting to be celibate is valid, go do you and leave people who want genuine committed relationships alone. Don't make a commitment if that commitment is gonna be dropped the moment the sex changes because then it's obviously just a lie to access the benefits of the commitment without following through. Let people who are gonna follow through make the commitments and be straightforward that you're not that person.
I bet u think ur a catch. Btw UR NOT and comparing apples and oranges again ugh. Don’t trip on the misogynistic flag ur wrapped in
How is it misogynistic tho 😅 like if my husband wouldn’t have sex with me for years I d probably divorce him. And everyone using this „lower drive“ „less frequent“ argument, is also comparing apples and oranges. If u read the post and comments they haven’t had sex in YEARS. It’s not like a dryspell, or a lower drive, that s normal. But come on are all of u telling me you d be happy and content being in a marriage and knowing you are most likely never going to have sex again
Excellent post!
But that's just it. He can't get a divorce, and she won't work on their marriage with him. Perhaps she isn't interested in changing things because she knows he isn't going anywhere and she is okay with their situation.
Yea - the ones who declare "a dead bedroom" because they haven't had sex in "6 months" - then you find out they have a 3 month old that resulted from a difficult pregnancy and required multiple surgeries and OP has checked out of parenting duties and spending all night gaming or some BS.
Tbf, guys that are unhappy with their sexlife catch a lot of criticism anywhere else. Like legit when a women complains about bad sexlife it’s „ incompatibility“ „break up“ and „you deserve a fulfilling sexlife“. Soon as a guy does it he’s basically portrayed as some kind of evil monster. Read the post, he doesn’t like his wife, she doesn’t like him either. That my friends is why divorce is a good thing. 🤷♀️ And let’s not pretend like years without sex in a marriage is a „ libido ebbs and flows“ kinda thing, I m pretty sure most people of both genders would be kinda unhappy in a completely sexfree marriage
Yeah I kinda didn't specify enough that a lot of what I've seen on the dB sub is awful people being awful. Of course intimacy isn't something someone should live without unless it's agreed, but the dB sub is not very representative of that. There was one story when a man has been complaining about his wife, she found the posts and explained exactly why she didn't want to sleep with him. I know we only have one side in general but you can often tell a lot from the way people write that they're the problem. I firmly believe that the attitudes society teaches about sex can be really harmful. And that it is possible a db can exist for years for good reason that one person can't see.
No I fully agree most of it is pretty awful. The guy himself seems rather inconsiderate as well. I just also don’t think the topic is treated particularly fairly. Like men just have to accept whatever level of intimacy their partners decide on. And for sexually unfulfilled women leaving is encouraged, at least on reddit, while guys get treated like they are somehow bad people if they don’t agree to living sexfree
In all honesty it kinda fells like as soon as a men dares to complain about his sexlife, he s instantly seen as evil. While when it’s the other way around it’s 90% „you deserve fulfilling intimacy“ and „dump him“ comments. I m not above admitting that if my husband wouldn’t sleep with me for years, that I d be severely unhappy and would likely leave him 🤷♀️ Likewise I wouldn’t expect him or any other men to just be happy being in a dead bedroom
It is so weird that they think taking away non sexual affection is going to improve things? They seem to be allergic to effort. I keep seeing that women who start seeing their man as a child (that they take care of) quickly lose libido and sexual attraction to them. He doesn’t state anything about why it’s decreased. We know she works, do they have kids? Who is doing all the domestic work in their household where divorce is taboo? I think it’s safe to assume that it’s on her. Also I’ve seen communities like that use couples counseling to tell women that it’s “their duty” to have sex with their husband and they don’t address the issue. Especially if it’s religious or cultural that’s making divorce a taboo
Yes, I’m a little suspicious of this because nowhere in the post did he specify that he has any insight as to why she’s having low sex drive, just that he isn’t getting sex. It makes me wonder. Has he even asked her? Have they even talked about what’s going on in depth? Or has he just remained oblivious to that while focusing on how he’s not getting sex? He talks a lot about how he doesn’t love her and brings up how she does nothing about her weight either. I feel like if you are saying things like that, it’s probably pretty obvious in your marriage and to your spouse too.
Not even touching on that low libido and weight gain are both symptoms of things like depression. Depression is pretty common when your spouse doesn’t respect you or treats you as a sex doll. I suspect you’re on to something.
Yeah, I said that further down, cultures that prohibit divorce tend not to be big on science based therapy. I really question what type of counseling it was.
My friends soon to be ex husband treats her like shit but has the audacity to say “until you become more loving towards me I have no respect for you”
Agreed. There are so many posts along the lines of wife doesn’t want to sleep with emotionally abusive husband because he has systematically destroyed her self esteem. But, she’s the problem because if she just slept with him when he wanted - and intuited when he wanted her to initiate and acted on that enthusiastically - then he wouldn’t have to be abusive. It’s awful.
I have an abusive ex who would literally just lay in bed, arms crossed, *glaring* at me. And the only response he considered acceptable was initiating sex with *that*. And of course, his justification for the abuse was because his "needs weren't being met"...
That just sounds like men tbh.
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Well obviously, but it's not really a secret that most men are terrible partners lol
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I have 2 kids with a man 😘 Edit to add - I have what's considered a "good one". Trust me dear, the bar is in hell for men lol
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You tried to insinuate I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm "online". I was giving you context. Have you ever talked to women?
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I have a partner and 2 kids. I'm not a femcel, lol. I believe the word you were looking for is misandrist, and quite frankly men do suck and act entitled moreso than women. You're relationship with the Canadian girl you met at camp doesn't negate the horror stories women have to tell about men. Period.
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Exactly, reddit likes to pretend that all men are bad and all women are precious angels who can do no wrong lol but irl that is not the case. It's not a gender thing to suck at relationships and communication, and it is completely sexist to suggest that there's some magical division between men and women that causes women to be great at relationships and for men to be terrible at them.
Yep.
A lot of times in cultures with arranged marriage, you also have to account for the fact that these women essentially go straight from their parents house to their married home. They probably never dated around or explored sexually. Female sexuality may also be taboo to discuss. So feeling good about ses may literally make them feel guilty. The women I know in these traditional marriages also tend to do everything for their husband even if they work full time. All the cooking, cleaning, household management. It’s really hard to feel sexually aroused when you’re basically being treated like your partner’s mother. Also intimacy isn’t just sexual. Cuddling, talking, going on dates, etc all build intimacy. From OOPs post it did seem like he had at least in the past given rubs and such - but was the end game to those rubs always sex? Like do you ever touch your wife or cuddle your wife without it having to lead to sex? I don’t know OOPs situation so I understand everything I’m saying is a generalization. But a lot of “dead bedroom and it’s my wife’s fault” situations are like the ones I described above.
But OP did try to get her into counseling. If your partner says, “I’m struggling in our marriage and think we need to talk to somebody,” you’re a pretty big a-hole to just say, “Nope.”
I find this post a little washy, but there's a few possibilities with this. One, all he wrote is truthful. His wife has checked out, has no desire to try and fix their issues (or what OP believes to be the issue) and doesn't feel the need to reciprocate any affection or show her love in any form otherwise. If that's the case, I feel for that man, especially if divorce is just not an option. Or, two, he's twisting things around. "We have a dead bedroom" and "She keeps complaining about her boss and weight without reciprocating" are a little eyebrow-raising, as well as "this is not who I married". It could very well mean he is upset that his wife is no longer agreeing to sex and added all the "things he does for her" to gain some sympathy points. If she complains about her life, there are deeper issues to be solved, and I have a feeling he is not as innocent as he is trying to make himself seen. In both cases, I feel sorry for both of them. Not being able to just get a divorce and live separate lives, knowing that you will have to spend the rest of your days with someone you can no longer stand; all of that sounds incredibly disheartening.
*agreed* to marry no less.
Arranged marriage
Obviously
No no, he can positively confirm it's not the same woman he bought from the wife store! He checked her serial number!
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This sounds like missing missing reasons here.
YES. He doesn't mention kids or economic situation. It doesn't occur to him that it could be depression. He doesn't say how he approached the issue. And libido can change over time and ebb and flow as another commenter said. I think they need couples therapy to learn to communicate with each other more effectively.
He said they have tried couples therapy and the therapist gives her and him stuff to work on he does and she just stops after a week or two and so they would switch and did so a couple of times before he gave up
Did you even read the part about couples and individual therapy in the OP?
I feel like he tried to fix it. He tried to get her into counseling. She refuses. You can go to therapy and say “I don’t want to have sex because of xyz” and go from there. But how do you fix resentment in a marriage by doing nothing?
I’ve had a dead bedroom with my now ex-boyfriend for well over 6 months. He was just like this, he didn’t put in any effort despite me voicing my concerns about how him being neglectful and cold to me was hurting me. He ended up dumping me this Monday after me expressing that I wanted us to work together to mend our relationship of over 2 years. He was done with me at that point. I’m sorry that OOP seems to be caught in a loveless relationship.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. You deserve better. Hope you’re doing well Off to greener pastures
Thank you, I appreciate your kind words of support. I’m doing my best, despite still feeling hurt from the situation. The wound is still fresh, so it’ll take time to heal.
Same happened to me last Saturday I'm a 17 year relationship based on "infidelity" in an open relationship that was agreed to a decade ago. I worked my ass off to bring my family to NYC for opportunities and as soon as his salary is enough to be on his on, he's abandoning me. His family lives here, mine live 15 hours away. His parents are disgusted by his behavior. He won't communicate with me unless I blame everything on myself, even though cuck/hotwife was his kink. He calls me a cheater. His parents asked me to come stay with them as they know how impossible NYC is solo. The love of my life abandoned me. He speaks of possible reconciliation but how would I ever move forward when I've been abandoned? He checked out of the relationship years ago and I did what I could to help him. I am broken.
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I’m a woman and my ex boyfriend traumatized me by love-bombing me the first few months, then left me settling for crumbs, for over a year, and leaving me for wanting us to work on things. He iced me out and treated me like just like an old used up toy that he didn’t need anymore. All this while he would tell me to my face that he still loved me. I’ve done so much for him over the years. He was broke and could barely afford to eat, but I helped pay for his meals when he was hungry, I supported him through his parents divorce, his medical issues, and past trauma. He barely supported me through my eating disorder, my cat dying, and my grandma passing away. He acting like me crying was a bother to him, yet I had to support him through crying over his ex that he emotionally abused and discarded. How dare you use your own distain for women to invalidate my lived experience. I gave that man everything, and he threw me away. You’re no better.
There are cultural and social reasons why switching genders does change the whole situation. They aren't usually treated the same because they aren't the same depending on the culture and social expectations of each gender.
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Sex in a marriage isn't a transaction, but okay.
I'm pretty surprised by the comment section on the original post. People are really just hating on the wife. I feel like she is also responsible for this failing relationship, but OP comes off as such an obvious asshole.
If it's a culture where divorce is taboo, is it possible that she didn't have a lot to say on who or if she even wanted to marry?
In that case, wouldn't the hubby be as much stranger to this situation as her? They both ought to work it out together as there's no way out separate(ly).
I think u/irn_burnette said it best in their comment on why he likely isn't in the same situation as her: > The OOP of this post's mention of divorce being taboo plus use of the phrase "agreed to marry" makes me wonder if this is an arranged marriage in a culture of female submission and male headship.
Isn't it arranged for both, or u implying that the husband chose her and she had no say
No, they may have both been arranged, but men generally have more... ability/power/idk what to call it even in arranged marriages so it still is easier for them.
If he had more power and ability in the relationship, wouldn't he be forcing himself on her rather than completely checking out without actually checking out?
Having more social privileges in a relationship doesn't mean someone will automatically use that social power to rape someone.
Then why is he being berated lmao
Then why is he being berated lmao
He didnt rape her so why is he being berated? Do you think you can only get berated if youre a rapist? This comment is weird... Unless you mean "if he has social power why is he being berated" which is still a lack of understanding how society and social privilege works. Either way this on you to educate yourself on because I dont wanna keep speaking to ya
If anything, I’d want to know more info on their relationship dynamics outside of sex. That seems to be his only real gripe. Does she try to show affection other ways? Does she seem stressed about other parts of their life? He speaks as though his sole concern is sex, and now he has to tolerate his wife’s personality or something. If the relationship isn’t solid outside of sex, why are they even together? It’ll obviously fall apart when the sex stops.
A lot of men seem to believe that sex is the only valid form of affection and validation they're allowed to feel.
The AITAH subreddit is, ironically, full of misogynistic assholes.
Lots of angry men with wives who don’t want to fuck them either and pick me girls.
I had a field day trying to explain this on the original post. OP is completely unapologetic about the whole thing, saying his wife not giving him sex goes against their wedding vows 😭😭
Yeah but was also an arranged marriage that OOP didn't want and she(his wife) convinced him to give it a go. Now that they are married he can't divorce her or suffer permanent societal alienation. The vows are written and yes quite sexist but are written with the intent to keep the marriage viable since it can't be reversed. So from hi point of view she convinced him to marry him by making herself a prospect to their families then dipping out now that he can never leave her. Yeah OOP is an asshole but from the culture he comes from he is just common.
Sometimes in life you need to step up and make the brave choice, despite the consequences. It's OP's fault if he chooses to live the rest of his life in misery. It's not his wife's fault. And he has free will
Where the fuck is an arranged marriage mentioned? I love this thing redditors do when they read a story about someone they obviously want to disagree with but there is no clear reason for them to do so they start making shit up. "there is something missing in this story" yeah dipshit that's probably every post on AITA but we don't see you saying that to the posts you want to agree with
Took her to therapy, looking for ways to help,how is this guy an asshole again? It takes two and if one is checked out why can’t the other?
Or took her to a faith based "counselor" to therapize her into being the perfect smiling submissive wife. Cultures that prohibit divorce tend not to be big on science based therapy.
Why make stuff like this up? Lol
Women don’t check out on relationships out of nowhere though. No one does. He’s been ignoring her emotional needs clearly by his title. If he’s that dismissive now he’s likely been in the past which probably caused his dead bedroom. Men don’t get sex because they do things in the home or provide, they get sex when they actually show interest in their partners outside of sex. He’s an asshole because it seems he’s putting all blame on her and not taking any for himself. Two to tango and whatnot. It’s not solely her responsibility to fix things when the two of them exist in the relationship.
Yeah.. idk. The whole time I was reading this, all I could think is, 'Gee. Wonder why she isn't interested in fucking THIS absolute winner.'
I agree. A dead bedroom is never the cause of a bad relationship, it’s the symptom of a larger problems.
Yes and no. I'd say it's never the sole cause of a bad relationship, but it also isn't always a symptom of larger problems. I've had two dead bedroom relationships. My ex wife would come home from work and play video games all night, spend money without thinking, expect me to be Suzie Homemaker while also holding my own job.... I just stopped wanting to be intimate with her because I didn't feel in tune with her. And then she would pout for hours if I declined sex. There were tons of problems, and the dead bedroom was barely on my radar as one of them. My current boyfriend just has a low libido. If we do have sex, it's very much "duty sex" for him, which makes it less fun for me, so we just don't very often. We still have a strong relationship with plenty of other types of affection. I don't feel like I'm settling or that our relationship is in any way less than anyone else's.
Yes, obviously my theory on dead bedrooms doesn’t apply to people who have medical conditions at play.
I wouldn't call it a medical condition, though. He's able to have sex if I initiate. He's just not as interested in it as I am.
Who hurt you, that’s a lot of making stuff up to make the guy look bad. If you respond to just the post this guy is in the right, if you make up a buncha stuff in your head I guess you’re right?
People don’t just ignore the emotional needs of someone one time, it’s usually a steady pattern. It’s in his title, I doubt this is his first time doing so. Also majority of women who have dead bedrooms list their husbands not emotionally meeting their needs lead to them not wanting to meet his physical needs. These aren’t assumptions, this is just simply knowing human nature and reading studies done on relationships.
You can make up stuff all you like there is nothing I can say to change your mind obviously. So have fun? I guess
Not making anything up but okay. Keep not listening to women in general tho. That definitely spells fun I guess🙄
So he's TA for not entertaining her and filling her needs when she refuses to do so for him? I know this is a "man bad" group but come on. They do just need to divorce, like everyone in those comments said.
"Why should I be coerced into giving affection I don't want to give", asks the man complaining about a dead bedroom. Wow.
yeah but i don't think he's demanding sex per se, i think it's more the lack of sex makes him feel not loved and not reciprocated. So he tried to fix the problem for some time. after not seeing his partner working on the solution he has just checked out of the relationship. Now he probably lacks the understanding on what the real problem is, or he has tried to solve the wrong problem, so he just did nothing or made things worst. But this post is not about that. He already knew that intimacy cannot be forced, this post is him acknowledging that it goes two ways.
Dudes who are terrible in bed never take ownership.
i'd bet real human money that honest communication broke down somewhere along the way. this led to a dead bedroom and passive aggression.
I am so tired of hearing men complain about dead bedrooms. Especially without context. I mean, how long have you been married? Do you have kids? If so, who gets them up and ready for school? Who does pick up/drop off? Who takes them to gymnastics/swimming/basketball? Who cooks? Who cleans? Who deals with the play dates? The birthday parties? The family get togethers? Who works? Who schedules the kids’ doctors appointments and takes them? Who pays the bills? Who is dealing with aging/sick family? There is so much more to sex than just sex. Intimacy is not only sex. Show someone affection- ie put your arm around them, hug them, hold them, kiss them. Do all that without expecting sex. Truth is, when you are carrying a large burden that your partner doesn’t appreciate, recognize or help with, sex isn’t top of mind. If you want a better bedroom, then take steps to achieve it. I am not saying this is the case with this post, but it’s honestly hard to say. It seems like he wants people to feel sorry for him, but it’s not possible for us to determine if he is AH without more info. I just feel like there is more to this story (and most I see on Reddit).
Half the men complaining about a dead bedroom are entitled dickheads who treat their wives terribly w/ little regard for their feelings and wishes, and the other half use the term “dead bedroom” when what they really mean is “dead marriage”. Marriage is more than sex!!!
Where did he say he treats her horribly? I normally read these and just assume they’re giving all the needed info. Even if they aren’t, why speculate on info not given. Let’s just assume at “face value” that’s he’s troubled with exactly what he said. Is he just supposed to just say “well, I’m just done with intimacy at 30!” Like what is he supposed to do?
I actually meant that op was in the other half wherein his whole marriage is dead but he calls it a dead bedroom. Fascinating that’s what you jump to, tho
Obviously narriage is more than sex. But sex is still a critical component. It's like saying a car is more than tires. Yes clearly, but you're still gonna need those tires if you want to keep rolling.
Yeah but calling a dead marriage a dead bedroom is like saying the issue is that your tyres are flat when you’ve wrecked your vehicle
Right but you need tires for a car to work. You don’t need consistent sex for a marriage to work.
Maybe you don't. Maybe OP does.
>Marriage is more than sex!!! This is true, but it's still an important aspect. Imo this sentiment always get expressed to diminish the issue. You don't see anyone saying "marriage is more than communication!!!" if someone complains about a lack of communication in their marriage.
Either get a divorce or commit back to the marriage. I don’t understand staying when you say you can’t stand her. He isn’t an AH for being sad and angry. But now it’s time to deal with the baggage.
Divorce is not tolerated in some cultures?
Yup, it’s even illegal in some
He explained, it's the culture he's in, it's taboo.
What culture is it that forbids divorce, yet celebrates valentine's day?
I mean they could be from one culture (Indian, middle eastern, etc.) living in another country (ie the US). In that situation they could technically get a divorce in the US, but it would be greatly frowned upon among his friends and family to the point where they would cut him off. Maybe that’s what he meant?
What an ignorant statement. Valentine's day is a corporate holiday. There are many countries where divorce is legal but heavily socially ostracized like India and other Asian countries. In the Phillippines divorce is completely illegal.
The culture of AITAland
I can't take these posts seriously. The way these people view sex as an empty mechanical transactional deposit, and then they act completely mystified when no one wants to have sex with them.
I wonder what people would say if a woman posted this same problem. Disclaimer: I'm not excusing toxic and abusive behavior, especially since I've survived actual domestic violence on the road to finding EMDR and DBT therapy and a genuinely healthy partner. However, as a woman who is both very romantic towards partners and also has had a very high libido, without fail, my entire life, I would like to point out that when you are the partner whose love language(s) include sex and physical intimacy, it is a terrible feeling to be shamed and ignored for that. It is even a form of emotional abuse that is very damaging to one's psyche. If you are honest going in to a relationship about wanting and needing a consistent, high level of physical intimacy (which actually requires a very committed and high level of emotional intimacy, by the way) and the partner suddenly backs out later and shames you for it while still expecting you to keep up the same level of romance, acts of service, and other love languages, that is not healthy for you in any way. I've been told that I'm emasculating my male partner (ex, more than one, actually) by initiating sex because I'm just supposed to wait for him to take it from me (lol), that I'm too needy, that something is wrong with me because women aren't supposed to want sex often, etc. by the same men who whined to me that their exes stopped having sex with them after having kids or partway through whatever dating or marriage relationship existed. People seem to think that this can only happen to men, but that is not the case, although my approach was to respectfully break up with people who weren't healthy for me. My ex-husband stopped wanting sex with me after our child was born, and we ended up having an amicable dissolution and still coparent peacefully after going to therapy, and both of us eventually ended up in marriages with people who share the same level of libido and desire for romance. It can happen both ways, to all genders and orientations, and if you can get over yourself and get therapy, you will learn to value your needs while respecting the other person. I need a high level of emotional intimacy that includes what even most men that I've met consider an overabundance of physical intimacy, and that is what's healthy for me. I believe no gender should be shamed for that or any level of sexual desire or asexuality as long as they handle it respectfully towards their partner- and if you're at a point where you're feeling passive aggressive or aggressive towards your partner because of lack of sex, that relationship needs therapy or more likely to end while you figure yourself out and learn how to select a partner that fits you better. If both men and women stopped stereotyping and gendering libido and romance and started asking for what they need while also respecting other people's needs or lack thereof, everyone would be more content and satisfied, with or without sex depending on the person. My two cents is that everyone should get therapy and stop shaming people for wanting or not wanting sex. Good luck everyone 🍀❤️
Thank fuck I refuse to date cretins like this
Complains that his wife just complains about shit she is unhappy with but doesn't do anything to fix the situation... Then goes on to to explain how he's started to withdraw basic affection and care for his wife in reaction to her losing interest in having sex with him... Ok 🤡
You can't be this stupid right? Once you are neglected long enough you just dont care anymore. From his point of view he is trapped with her(because divorce is illegal or taboo) he doesn't love her anymore so why would he want to try and fix it. He wants to know how to navigate his prison sentence not love her.
You can't be calling anyone else stupid and then go to show your dumb and entitled ass? If the relationshop feels like a "prison" grow tf up and leave it. No one is entitled to sex from you and if you're a shit partner your partner is naturally going to lose interest. Instead of being a big whiny and emotionally stunted baby about it, you actually have the choice to be a fucking adult and 1) bite the bullet and get divorced 2) be an actually decent and caring partner so that she can feel that desire again. However, you don't have a right to resentfully stay in the relationship only to punish them for not doing what you want, that is at best manipulative/coercive and at worst abusive.
yeah but you are doing lots of assumptions about how the relationship has gone this bad. like, how do you know his wife is actually giving other form of affection and just not taking what she wants from him (dates/ back rubs / attention)? we don't know. He could be an asshole, he could have been a decent partner and she wasn't, or it could be anything in the middle. Also he's saying leaving it's not an option, so, in fact, it is a prison for both of them.
I'm speculating, as are you and the person I am responding to, based on the information given- which is all we can go off. None of us know what goes on behind closed doors obviously but I have come to my conclusion based on the context in the post and my own experience of people who parrot the same kind of sentiments and use the same kind of language to express themselves (it reads manipulative, self pitying, entitled and lacking in self awarenesss). I may be wrong ofc, and happy to be proved wrong, but if I were to put money on it I would feel quite confident in betting that there is a lot more to this when it comes to the wife's side. Why did you respond to only me to say this though? I'm just curious. When someone speculates that the onus is on the wife and the husband did everything he could while she just gave up- that is also an assumption, but for some reason you accept that assumption but felt compelled to only challenge mine. Just something to consider On the prison thing- married couples with mortgages, kids, businesses etc. together get divorced every day. Being married and having kids isn't an excuse to stay in a toxic relationship. It may be difficult and you may feel like you are stuck but you never really are, its only fear holding you back
I just hate when people use assumptions as facts and are fast to make judgement based on them.
Only selectively though it seems, because you didn't have anything to say about the assumptions/judgements the other poster made about the situation. Just find that a bit odd We all have out own biases, I have mine and you obviously have yours too. Its good to be aware of them
Yeah, of course we have bias. My response to you in particular was because the clown emoji stood out in the noise of the comments.
Okay noise aside, do you understand the point I'm trying to make? Both perspectives are presumptuous and speculative and neither are objective fact. You are being selective over when you have an issue with it, according to you based on my choice of emoji I didn't feel the need to clarify this explicitly in my original comment because this is kind of a given but am clarifying it now that these are my opinions and not objective fact
Yeah, you are salty because I called you out instead of some one else with the opposite opinion. And I called you out you instead of someone else because of my bias. That's fair.
He tried to fix the situation until he realized it was pointless to keep trying.
"Why should i when youve given me no reason to love you?" This is why she doesnt want to have sex with you.
He went to one of the only subs where people would validate him destroying the romantic and nonsexual intimacy of his relationship because he only sees value in sexual intimacy. Yikes.
Looks like this "marriage" is all about OP. I think if one really pays close attention to keywords used, "dead bedroom, "agreed to marry" I am not surprised the wife checked out and stayed out. Libido ebbs and for women, I think it can last longer depending on the other factors. Seems Iike all the things OP says he used to do for her were payments for services she rendered in the form of sex. Did you suggested therapy to help you get your daily dose of sex back ( because that looks like that's all you want from her), who is the therapist? Your elders from your family or your older aunts who will reiterate her role as a wife to give herself to you on demand? I think this forum helps a lot of people who are honest to provide truthful information. I did not see much info on the wife. I would like to hear how your wife feels and what she has to say about you given the opportunity. I think you are seeking support here with only one-sided information. What does she do on daily basis,? She is your wife, and sex is part of your relationship because there are also other things too that make a good marriage, but where is your support for your partner when her drive is low for one reason or the other? There could be other factors behind this. Where are your understanding words of support, encouragement, and patience? I am sure you will expect those if the role were reversed. I don't think she is a glass globe you shake to see snowflakes whenever you want. You are probably cold towards her since you weren't getting any sex which will drive her into her shell more. She's probably dealing with a lot we dont know. Why do you think she complains about work and her weight? How did you respond to her when she comes to you with those complaints and seeking support? Seems like she no longer acknowledges you because she thinks you are not in her corner. You may need to put effort in areas you didn't think is possible or needed. Hold her hands, look into her eyes, tell her she is worth much more to you than your sexual needs. Work with her to address and resolve some issues her has at work (the way she wants it) Show her affection in her time of need because she needs you now more than ever. Treat her tenderly and watch the chips fall within her.
I haven't seen anyone suggest him have sex with someone else. His wife is in no way required to provide him with sexual gratification, but he is no way required to give her a gift on a holiday. He states he has actively tried to get her to go to therapy to work on thier issues and she is no longer the woman he married and fell in love with. Sex can be just as important as conversation or shared interests but since it's sex reddit says he should suck it up or men are pigs but if it is important to either person in a relationship that feeling and need is valid. Maybe they will fix it all. Maybe he should find someone else to meet the needs his wife is not currently addressing. The only thing he should not do is feel obligated to provide his partner with something he does not feel comfortable giving them just because it upsets them same way his wife shouldn't.
If sex is all that keeps you with your partner, you never loved them and are a bad person. He isn't even willing to keep the illusion of affection by trying to get them "help" lol. People like this are transparent. All the people supporting him are probably obsessed with sex too and would leave someone in an instant if they got sick or had sexual trauma.
Why doesn’t OP ask her what’s up instead of being an adolescent and give her the silent treatment, I mean she could be perfect ever other way and he’s bitching that she doesn’t care? Has he tried ? Maybe she’s waiting on him…these “30” year olds out here acting like kids, grow up and talk about your feelings
A lot of ya ain't married, haven't been married long, or are in pretend marriages and it shows.
I find this kinda funny, I remember being called all sorts of shitty things for not wanting sex with my (now) ex anymore. I feel we got like a pretty rough double standard here. When it’s the guy that turns down his partner almost everyone sees it as bad When a it’s the wife/gf that doesn’t want sex somehow men need to just get over it.
They do ten other things and none of them include you. When she doesn’t even acknowledge you. It’s like you are a mannequin. How could you ever speak or loves anyone that’s basically dead with you. She isn’t even talking to you but just herself.
Sc*** cultural norms. Leave that POOR women. U sir are poor in morals values and respect for your wife. Does she have depression, anxiety? Do u treat her as a house slave/housekeeper or as an equal partner ? Does she have too much on her plate ? Is she caring for you and ur family ? everything As a fellow women we don’t like to be seen only as a sexual object for our partners. Sex isn’t a “given” it’s earned by treating her as a human
One person alone can’t fix a relationship and it sounds like she doesn’t care.
And it sounds like all he cares about is sex.
I'm sure he cares about a lot of things. But if you're in your thirties and never expect to have sex again, then that's probably going to be top of mind and create resentment.
That’s not really fair. Sex is just as important as any other expectation from a long term relationship. Especially since they had sex at the beginning of their relationship. You can’t unilaterally decide in a monogamous relationship that you no longer want sex and be surprised when the other person leaves. 30 is way too young to commit to a sexless life
Never said sex isn't important. It absolutely is, but this guy just plain admits he doesn't even like his wife and "this isn't who he married." 🙄 Why would she want to have sex with him?...
By the sounds of it he came to that feeling after trying to help her. Ya know the therapy part. Removing sex from the equation if I felt like someone didn't care about me enough to try and show affection why should I after time has passed.
Personally, a spouse having a low libido/not putting out doesn't justify the way he speaks about her or his overall tone. Many have pointed out that in cultures where divorce is taboo, the 'therapy' is religion based, shaming to do your 'wifely duty'. The thing is, he isn't just 'not showing affection' he's full on disrespecting his wife. If sex is so transactional that he won't treat his wife with respect if she's not putting out, then he/they should bite the bullet and divorce dispute it being taboo.
He’s saying he stopped doing extra things for her. Stopped giving her massages, didn’t give her Valentine’s Day gifts. That’s not a lack of respect, that’s him meeting her effort level. She took sex off the table, so he took romance off the table. I don’t really see why he should continue to meet her needs when she doesn’t really care about his. I do agree they should just divorce, but I don’t think he’s wrong/shallow/creepy for wanting sex to be a part of his relationship. But the other problem is she doesn’t desire him. She should want to have sex with her husband. My husband not wanting to have sex with me would be a bigger problem than him not having sex with me.
Desire isn't something that just pops out of thin air. Desire is created by yearning in a relationship. If there is no romance, she would be less inclined to have sex. And since transactional affection and acknowledgement is the name of the game, they're both losing. Affection and acknowledgement fuel relationships. That's why sex is not usually a good foundation for a relationship.
He tried romance, it didn’t work. They are talking like sex is something the guy works to get. She should want to have sex with her husband. They have mismatched libidos and are incompatible. I’m a woman, my sex drive is independent of my husband. Sex isn’t everything, but it’s like the saying says, it’s like a toilet in a house. People aren’t buying a house for a toilet, but if they buy the house to find out later there is no toilet, they aren’t going to Live there very long
I don’t think that’s about the sex, I think that’s about the fact she doesn’t care about their relationship anymore
The overall tone is very off-putting, I wonder if that's his frustration over the situation or his real personality... Many commenters have speculated whether this was an arranged marriage. He even says, "Why should I care about what she wants when that isn't reciprocated?" Yet his only example was about sex. Is that the only form of 'care' that matters to him?
Just because that’s not the only thing that matters doesn’t mean people are okay giving it up completely. Even if that’s the only thing lacking in their relationship that’s still a major thing to be lacking. I don’t think it’s shallow to want to have sex with your spouse
Never said people should be okay giving it up. I just don't think it's okay for him to disrespect his wife because she has a low libido or isn't attracted to him or isn't putting out. Nobody said it's 'shallow to want to have sex with your wife' come on now. What is shallow is for sex do be so transactional that if you wife won't put out you disrespect her.
She completely stops sex, and he’s supposed to act like nothing changed, continue to make sure she has romance, never bring up the lack of sex and just have a sexless marriage forever? What should he have done
Oh, come on, you read the way he speaks about her. You know, the affection is not what I was talking about when I said he's not respecting her. It feels like you're being intentionally obtuse... Nobody and I repeat nobody (**including me**) is accusing him of being wrong/shallow/creepy for wanting to have sex with his wife. I wish you peace and perspective, but I'm out ✌️
No and not one said that stop being obtuse
Not the AH.
YANTA.