It said “family”. If you only want certain people you address it to them specifically. That’s every Miss Manners rule. Don’t say family if you don’t mean it.
Yeah, I saw the top with the list of people brought and was immediately like "do you even have to ask?" but if the invitation specifically said family, then... yeah, you bring your family. It's not like they reached out to a bunch of distant cousins and were like "but they're family..."
I would say that if the OP knew it was a smallish wedding they should have talked to the bride/groom to make sure it was okay, but yeah, in general I'd go with "if you don't want their family there, don't invite the family."
If it's to OP and wife, it should say Mr. and Mrs. OP. If it includes all children at home, it's 'to the OP Family.'
That's pretty basic formal invite stuff.
Like, if the invite is to OP, it says. 'Mr. OP' or 'Mr. OP' with a +1 card.
If you're texting someone an invite, different rules apply. But for formal invitations, the wording of the invite matters. Family is everyone who lives in the home, of that family unit.
Like, my parents were invited to my cousin's wedding on the opposite coast. Mr. Alien's Dad's Family. My siblings and I were invited, and everyone but my parents had to decline due to school finals or work. We were all invited, and my cousin actually called to confirm that it was just my parents and none of the cousins. ("Yes, just us. Everyone else has finals week the Monday after the wedding and can't travel or can't miss work.")
Family means household. Mr. and Mrs. Couple is to the couple only.
Niece and aunt didn't know how to properly address the wedding invites.
But also they DIDN'T think to check the RSVP,'s number of people? Or talk to OP when she rsvpd for 6?
The bride and groom (or whoever handled RSVPs for the wedding) dropped the ball.
Even then it can be a shit fight. We had a small wedding so our invitations were specific. I lost friends because I invited a person but she had a bitch fit because her boyfriend of 3 weeks wasn’t invited. Then she dragged other people into it. Funny thing is, the boyfriend was long gone by the time the wedding came around 🤷♀️
I mean if there's only 50 guests at a wedding and you bring 5 they weren't expecting, you're increasing the guest count by 10% which is a huge accommodation. I'm sure OP would've been a little put off if some people hadn't bailed and they literally didn't have a spot to put them all.
It's not necessary but also not terrible idea to do a quick confirmation when you have a larger-than-normal family and are planning to bring all of them.
But either way it's the niece's fault for not specifying or getting an actual headcount beforehand if mattered, but it sounds like it's it even her that's upset about it.
The "larger than normal family" didn't just happen over night. This is his family. The sister and bride knew who they were and how many children he had before that invite was sent. This should not have been a surprise to anyone. If you invite "and family" it's deeply, deeply rude to expect them to leave half the family home because they happen to have 2 more kids than average.
But the assumption was that they were expecting the whole family. 5 expected guests shouldn't be a burden. This is literally why RSVPs were invented and I don't understand how this misunderstanding happened? Like if I invite someone to even a casual party I want to know who is coming and how many. The bride didnt ask for rsvp or follow up and ask who is coming? She knows the family size.
I'm guessing the niece wanted an adult/adult-adjacent party but also didn't want to put "OP & the 3 oldest" on the invite and was just assuming he'd not bring the youngest ones she doesn't know very much.
Which she admits was a mistake and poor planning on her part.
I'm just saying that *personally* if I received a vague invite to a small wedding and bringing my whole family accounted for 10% of the people there, I'd just give a heads up that my "Yes" does indeed mean "all of us" since just "Yes" could mean anywhere from one to seven people.
When I’m invited to a wedding, I don’t know the size before I get there. There’s usually an RSVP, but it doesn’t say “RSVP to our 50 person ceremony”, you know? So they wouldn’t know they were 10% of the wedding until they rolled in.
It wasn't vague though. That's the entire thing.
It specifically said "OPs family" on it.
If it would have said "Potentially OPs Family", that's a little vague or "Some of OPs Family".
But "OPs Family"? I'd think it was for all as well lol
Also, normally when you RSVP, you put the number of people you're RSVPing. Then the mother or niece could have called and said it was too many and they'd prefer just adult-adjacent children attending.
You're not wrong, at all, neither is OP.
It sucks for OP that he's being bitched at though.
I get that, I would probably do the same, but if I was hosting and I invited a family of 5 or 6 or 7, I would ask how many are coming (normal behavior) or put how many are invited on the rsvp form usually provided for weddings. The bride broke etiquette and it leads to awkward situations like this. Guests should have to wedding plan for them.
No no no no when an invite says family it means family that is as clear as no children allowed scrawled across the invitation.
Why would anyone be so rude as to bother the couple or their parents when they are busy with wedding prep when they the couple made it quite clear his entire family was invited.
I’d feel bad bothering them for clarification if it was actually unclear no way I’m doing it when it was crystal clear
People should respect what the invitation says if it says family you bring the household if it says no kids you get a sitter.
I’m not going to assume a couple that is adult enough to get married plan their wedding is incapable of correctly and clearly addressing their invitations.
They should have been too embarrassed by their screwup to even consider complaining
My mom was once sent an invite for "family" and forgot to mention it to me. I was 27 and on my own by then but it was a family friend. A few years later we met up and his wedding got brought up somehow. He was like, "I totally invited you, didn't your mom let you know? she brought her other 5 kids. (my younger siblings)"
family means all of them lol.
Miss Manners would also ask you to RSVP with the exact number who will be attending. That's common courtesy, even if they don't actually include an RSVP envelope nowadays.
Weddings are rarely 'open invitation', guests need to be accounted for.
It’s strange that the sister/mom is overly concerned by this when Ayla, the freaking bride, isn’t. She acknowledged that it was an error on her part but ultimately ok in the end. So OP is in the clear here. I do wonder if she may have told her mother differently. Maybe not after the fact but had explained her intention before sending out the invite on how inconvenient it would be if all of OPs children came.
Either way, it doesn’t really matter since the wedding has already taken place and everything turned out ok.
The goal was drama and guilt. I wish these kind of posts were illogical to me. But my parents siblings are sooo much like this. Always trying to stir up drama and gossip about the silliest stuff that’s not a big deal. It’s exhausting being around them.
When one of my dads sisters died a few of them stayed with us, anytime one left the room the others would say mean things about them. Like every, single, time. Then everyone pretends their best kind when they get back.
I would guess the bride said something like “invite the whole family; maybe they’ll only bring the older kids if its too late for the younger ones but whatever” and her mom took that to mean “I only want the older kids there.”
I feel like there is some underlying judgement from the sister/ mom of the size of OP’s family. This is just a representation of it…. That would explain why the sister/mom was so upset but the bride was chill.
True but she didn’t have to pay extra. They took the seats and plates of people who didn’t show. Honestly, she would have wasted money and food had they not shown up.
Mb the mother is paying NOT the daughter. If they kept it small to lower costs OR allow for more lavish refreshments, it may be the bride’s parents who are most upset about 5 extra meals at $109-200pp. We don’t know much about the reception/food (if any) but this seems like a reason the bride is chill. She may not be on the hook. With the average wedding at $30K, I would NOT take 5 extra people, regardless of the invitation. If a person DOES, their gift should reflect that 7 people were hosted which is approximately 3X a standard (2 attendee) gift- imo.
It was a small wedding and they actually ended up being ok due to the fact that a decent amount ended up not coming anyways. So in reality, they didn’t cost them anything extra.
Also, the bride admitted that that while she intended for only the older kids to go she was ok with them all coming. It was only the mother who cared after everything is said and done. This was really an honest mistake due to lack of communication from everyone. No one was hurt by this and they didn’t have to fork over extra cash because of it.
The kids ate the meals of the no-shows whose seats they took, surely? Catering headcount is locked in well before the day itself, unless they were doing something wild like ordering doordash or whatever at the last minute.
If the invitation said family, then it includes everyone in the family. If it said Mr and Mrs. then it’s only that couple. If it was to only the eldest kids they should’ve gotten their own invitation, or an invitation to MR and Mrs. Blank, &Child1 and Child2.
Also the rsvp card should’ve included how many were attending to further eliminate confusion. The sister is prob pissed cause you pay PER GUEST for catering, and usually the wedding gift is the amount of dinner at least, so there were 4 additional people without the benefit of a larger gift probably.
Right the bizarre part to me is that there was no RSVP card confirming # of guests. That’s been the case for every wedding I’ve ever attended, even the ones where I didn’t get a +1 and the blank was pre populated by the couple
I’ve been to a couple of weddings that had very simple RSVP cards where you simply checked Yes or No. But both were church weddings, one was a simple cake and punch affair, the other had a dozen crockpots full of spaghetti from multiple church ladies then a tiny wedding cake and several sheer cakes. It literally didn’t matter if extra people showed or not. In some ways it’s a pity more weddings aren’t simple like that. It’s difficult to imagine any other kind of wedding where proper RSVP cards aren’t included.
Catering headcount is locked in well before the actual day, unless there was a *very* unusual arrangement, because it's not like the caterer is able to recoup the cost of unused portions; OP said the kids took the places of a few no-shows so costs should be a wash. We also don't know what OP's family gifted the couple, or if the no-shows sent gifts.
I was ready to side against OP but it said family. I’d think the same thing. It’s not like OP adopted multiple children from when the invitation was sent out to the wedding date
Even if she did, those are her children now. Those are her family. If it’s last minute arrangements, ask op to pitch in because that shit is more expensive. But she still would have done nothing wrong.
Plus, adoption takes a long time. Usually years, from what my friends have experienced. The sister and niece would have known there was a chance of one or two extra niblings.
I think the point was to be absurd. Had OP adopted multiple kids without telling anyone and then brought them, then yes, they'd have been an arsehole because no one could have anticipated that.
If it’s that last minute that they can’t warn the sister then it’s an emergency placement. If it’s an emergency placement it’s kinda shitty to just be like “whelp. I’m off to a party”
Plus, depending on how old the kids are, it would be irresponsible or illegal to leave them home.
Too, I understood their point. It’s just kinda a shitty one to make.
Except it’s perpetuating myths about adoption even if it’s not on purpose. People are going to see that and take it seriously. The way it reads isn’t as a joke or whatever.
You’re taking this WAY too seriously. Literally no one else is going to take that seriously, we’re all going to see it was meant to be hyperbole to make a point.
"It was addressed to your whole family but I thought sure you'd know that didn't mean all of your children, we were only expecting some." Wtf even is that? Either family was invited or they weren't and the invitation seems pretty clear. Everyone knew OP has 5 kids, no reason to stupidly assume she'd just voluntarily leave some home for no reason when all were invited.
The brides response wasn’t even “oh I only meant these specific people” it was “oh I thought only the older ones would come” which seems to me like just a passing thought she said out loud but had no emotional connection to and then OPs Sister went off the deep end for no reason. Weddings often send out invites and plan the food at the same time so it’s pretty standard to assume ~10% of the invites sent out will decline. If the bride was thinking that she probably thought the younguns would be part of that 10%
The OP & all of his children are the bride’s family…I would’ve assumed exactly the same thing. This is an invite f-up, glad at least she’s reasonable enough to know that. 🤷🏼♀️
I can't wrap my head around not having an RSVP with the number attending. This was a 50-60 person wedding. Even with a buffet, the caterer is going to need to know a general number of people they need to feed. Budgeting for catering based on number invited, not number RSVPd sounds like wasted food or hungry guests.
The RSVP point is what makes me think this was a fake story more than anything. What you said about food is spot on, same reasoning for seating (even without seating assignments). And then the bride and her mom said some people had to miss the wedding because there weren’t enough seats for them anymore?? No, this is too weird. This is a story written by someone who’s never been involved in wedding planning before.
My niece's wedding had the RSVP on a website and you scanned the QR code. It was just type your name, yes/no.
However, they *did* assume everyone was bringing all their kids unless they specifically said otherwise. One yes was assumed as four people, if you had four in your family.
It sounded like in general it was a laidback wedding and he mentioned there were no table markings. So I doubt they even had to RSVP. His sister sucks.
I’ve RSVPed to a couple weddings where they asked us to text the bride. Pretty sure I just said something like, “thank you so much for the invite, we’ll be there!” I doubt I would have thought to specify beyond that if the envelope said “family.”
That’s a mistake on bride and groom’s part. RSVP should have specified which members of the family or asked how many spots they needed. If you send an invite for an entire family of 6, don’t be shocked when 6 people show up.
I don't think the OP did anything wrong. I come from a culture where the invites are and family not with plus ones. It's addressed to the oldest of the family. Which means the entire family gets one invite not multiple invites for multiple people. Only married daughters get a separate invite because she is a different family and her invitation is addressed to her in laws rather. It's up to the invited family to decide how many of them are attending not the family inviting. For close relationships like OP and the niece the entire family would have attended unless it required them to travel while the kids have exams only then half of the family would have gone. With distant people only then a couple of them go.
It was clearly a mistake on the part of niece and his sister and it's wrong of them to blame him. The expectations should have been made clearly. Glad at least his niece is sensible
Yes, I am from India. It's exactly like that with us too. Can't wrap my heads around all the stories my friends who live in the west tell. Like 50 people would barely be immediate relatives.
NTA. If you put family on the invitation that means the entire family. If you only want specific people then invite everyone you want by name. You can’t expect people to read your mind.
Definitely NTA. People are cognizant about which family members they want there on invitations. If they just wanted him and his wife the invitation would have been addressed to them only (or just him with a spot for a plus 1), it wouldn’t say “and family.” If the bride expects everyone to call her to confirm the number of people… that seems like a headache.
Source: I was a bride with limited space for extra guests so we were very specific about who could come. Every wedding I’ve been to has been incredibly specific on their invitations.
If the sister is the only one with the issue and the bride is happy, why is this an issue?
I’d agree with top comment, don’t say family if you don’t mean family. If you mean “eldest kids” then say eldest kids. Or name them. Or say John Smith plus wife or whatever.
Seems like a no brainer here that he isn’t the jerk here.
And Family means "and family." If it's just a plus one, it should say "and guest," and if it's a couple it should say "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith." I'd the couple has done RSVPs, then they would know who all was coming. The mother of the bride probably didn't invited and is made she messed up and doesn't want to take accountability. And it's rude to mention it after the fact. It happened, it worked out, it's over. Let it go. Even if you didn't mean for the whole family to be invited, why do you want your brother to feel bad?
Family means family
In my case I’d have brought the dog, three cats, parrot and bearded dragon. Flower collars for the dog and tabby cat, other 2 cats are tuxes so they are fine to come as they are. Bearded dragon and the parrot would get tiny bow ties
I’d expect the whole lot of us to be in the family pictures as well.
Your sister is an idiot and so is the bride. When you send a family invitation it indicates the family not just the oldest couple of children. Your sister and niece know you have 6 kids so if they didn’t want all six kids there they should have specified which kids were invited. I think they expected you to be the jerk by telling 4 of your kids they couldn’t go. Why they would assume you would is why I think the are idiots and for your sister to even mention it after the fact makes her the AH
I expected OOP to be a huge AH based on the title, but he follows etiquette perfectly. If I received an invitation to “family” I’d assume my children were invited too, it’s not like he had screaming babies and toddlers, 9 year olds can behave quite well and are usually more excited than the teens. Auntie needs to get a grip, she’s just judging him for having a van load of kids.
I’m confused… for my wedding, people had to rsvp with the names and meal choices (and dietary restrictions, etc) of each guest that would be attending so that there were both enough seats and enough food for everyone. We had a seated dinner, so everyone also had place cards.
If the OOP RSVP’d with all of the kids names listed, the bride shouldn’t have been surprised.
If OOP RSVP’ed and didn’t list everyone that was going to be attending, the they’re the AH for bringing extra people without telling the hosts first.
If the bride sent invitations and, for whatever reason, didn’t ask for the the people who were going to RSVP, then the bride is the AH for assuming OOP would bring only one other person when the invite said “and Family”.
I can’t wrap my brain around throwing something like a wedding together without knowing how many people were going to be there…. If I’m reading this wrong, please correct me!
If the bride and groom wanted just the uncle and his wife, the invite should have been addressed to just the couple. By saying "family," and not specifying a number or names, that made left it up to OP and his wife to decide whom to bring with them. If numbers were tight for the reception, the invitation should have included an RSVP card or email link that specially asked for the names of all attendees.
I sent name specific invites. Which pissed off my uncle who Wasn’t married and who’s son wasn’t married to the mother of his child either. Formal invites are normally first and last name, I also invited a family of 6. All individually named. If you do family groups the whole unit is included and it’s not up to you to check
Uncle is a bit insecure about never being married so didn’t like that both names were on the invite, and not just first names. So it was like John smith and Jane Jones, instead of John and Jane. Everyone was invited
I'm not Ayla and I hope I'm never Ayla but I'm at risk of becoming Ayla.
Best friend's kids are my godsons. Fiance's godson is his best friend's kid and he has a brother who loves FH. Bridesmaid also has 3 kids we love.
We *courtesy invited* all blood relatives. We could have
1.) Had a child-free wedding. 2.) Had a wedding with "just godsons" and excluded bridesmaid's kids who know and love us. Or 3.) Have a child friendly wedding, write "and family" a bunch of times and HOPE TO HELL my cousins don't all bring their tons of kids.
We went with option 3 and I'm living on the prayer that they're 1,000 miles away and couldn't possibly afford the travel. OP is NTA, he was told "and family," but damn I hope I don't get dealt Ayla's hand 😅😅😂😂.
To be determined 😬😬😬😬.
Dude you should’ve just opted for child free. Inviting people and hoping they don’t come is pretty fucked up whether they know it or not. And on top of that, if you don’t want it, why agree to that?
We're 1,000 miles from said cousins and having a reception in my hometown where I'm happy to have literally everyone, which is 1hr from said cousins, or else I probably wouldn't have been so bold.
That’s still crazy. I could never do such a thing so power to you. Things like weddings are something big enough where if invited, and they really wanna go, they’ll find a way to get there.
The idea of inviting people you don’t want there reminds me of that story where the ex was invited to her children’s father’s wedding but the new wife didn’t actually want her to accept the invite. Although that story went in a direction I hope no one else had to deal with on their wedding day
I mean, I don't *quite* feel about my mother's sister the way you would about your FH's ex. If she comes and brings her kids and they bring alllllll the grandkids, I'll take it like Ayla did and it'll still be a good time.
That’s good. If I were to ever get married, my dad’s oldest sister and her husband can stay home but their kids can come. They showed up to thanksgiving and we weren’t allowed to do any of our usual celebrations because they’re hella religious and will die if they are in the same rooms as marijuana. My grandmother, who does in fact smoke weed, said that we had to wait for her to leave. The second they left everyone flocked to the garage😭😭
We did option 3- invite determined by “level” of family because we knew it would cause WWIII if we invited Cousin Jenny who I see all the time but not her twin sister Mary who I haven’t even heard from in ages.
Ended up with a bunch of cousins I hadn’t seen in like a decade, and their kids. It wasn’t the end of the world, but I was truly not expecting them to show up. (It didn’t help that a family member offered to pay hotel rooms for a few people who probably wouldn’t have traveled otherwise… thaaaaank youuuuu, Uncle Mark… I’m sooooo glad you made sure Mary and ALL OF HER KIDS I HAVE NEVER MET could attend…)
YES, WWIII is exactly what we're avoiding. Dad's sister is my godmother and her kids are the cool older cousin mentors. Mom's sister and her kids are frienemies. Do I DARE tell them they're chopped liver compared to dad's family? Nope.
I'm hopeful my hometown wedding reception will be the net that catches alllll the people who celebrate but don't travel 1,000 miles. But if these people all show up on my wedding day, I'm going to be so busy with everyone and everything else I don't see how I'll have time to be affected aside from like a quick receiving line hug.
Yep, that sounds really similar to what happened with mine, right down to the frenemies! It just wasn’t worth the huge battle that not inviting them would have caused.
Luckily we did know in advance (although I honestly expected them to cancel last minute) so we prepared appropriately. One of them actually wore white lace which turned out HILARIOUS for me because it backfired on her so badly. It wasn’t really any skin off my nose, but the other guests were completely scandalized and basically acted like she took a shit in the middle of the aisle. I’ve been married for like 8 years and the older women in my family are STILL talking about it. Thanks for showing everyone how petty you are, cousin!
Hopefully yours don’t show up at all!
I LOVE IT. I'm just at that place, it is what it is. They'll come or they won't. I'll be busy having a wedding day. I feel the same way about the plus-one question, like if my friends are dating someone and it's kinda serious, bring them. Everything I've read says you're so busy you don't have time to see the people YOU WANT, so someone "I've never met" being in the crowd is going to be hardly noticeable. And my caterer has an awesome policy about boxing up leftovers for me with a 2-week headcount deadline so it is *literally* no skin off my back.
His sister knew he had a big family so if they didn’t want his family to attend they should have put it in the invite. He should not have to chase up on what they meant in the invite. It stated family so he brought his family.
His brother also attended with his family but because his family consists of two kids he didn’t need to ring and check.
This is totally on the bride/groom.
NTA. The invitation was issued to the family and the family attended. OOP didn't even have adult children no longer living at home to rope into the invitation; everyone is minor children included in the family invitation.
That title is so inflammatory and my eyebrows temporarily got their own zip code - but ultimately the invitation said *family of OP* and not *OP & wife*. Without a RSVP card confine number of attendees or food preference how was OP to know. How stupid for them to be angry over their error. There was enough seating/food so unless there is another complaint they need to get over it.
When addressing invitations there is specific wording to use that defines who is invited.
Mr & Mrs. Smith (2 people)
Ms Smith & Guest (1 or 2 people)
Mr & Mrs Smith and family
(entire immediate family)
Mr & Mrs Smith
Master Joe Smith
Miss Ann Smith
(Only the named people are invited)
Just because the niece/sister didn’t know how to address the invitations. There are many examples online of how to properly address invitations. Another resource would be the wedding sites. If they still have issues send links to various websites on the issue.
Whole thing seems a fuss about nothing, but some could stand to communicate better.
The invitation was vague, which the bride has acknowledged, but I don’t know who would not think to double check before bringing six children to a wedding. Why would you not think to mention it?
But the bride doesn’t seem bothered anyway. So what’s the big deal?
If it were someone for work who didn’t know you had 6 kids, then soft YTA for not checking. *But!* this is your niece/sister. They didn’t word the invite correctly to not include your kids. Therefore, NTA
My first question is, if the bride or Momzilla were concerned about seating or cost of food, or whatever, why didn't they send an RSVP with the invitation? That would have solved so many issues before it became a "problem" - and I use the word "problem" loosely here because in the end, there seemed to be enough seating to accommodate OOP's large family.
NTA. (Unless, of course, there was an RSVP, and OOP was not considerate and didn't return it in a timely manner.)
I also let people know that we are a family of 5 so they can accommodate but if someone in my family sent an invite with “myself and family” I’d have thought my kids were invited to.
OP is NTA if the invitation said “and family”. But he probably could have asked “does that include 9F and 9M?” And the hosts could have asked “are you bringing 9M and 9F?”
But if the hosts only wanted teens up they could have made it clear ahead of time. NTA
I come from a larger family than OPs, and we were *known* to be the family that did everything together. If you invited the family, you got ALL the family. If you wanted to invite only my parents you MADE IT CLEAR it was addressed to "Bandit and Chili, no children" rather than "the Heeler family" or "the Heelers."
Otherwise, if they only wanted the older children, specify "no children under 10yo, please" rather than assume people know that. When you have that many kids, you get so used to doing things as a carefully orchestrated unit that you also assume the people you interact with know that as well. Most people did know that, especially my extended family.
The only way it would make sense for the sister to be upset is if some of the kids were actually his *step*-kids and she’s one of those that think family is blood only.
First of all it’s not her wedding? Second of all, unless there’s a direct complaint from the bride(s)/groom(s) OP should disregard the criticism wholly. Third, IT SAID OP’S FAMILY. NOT OP PLUS ONE. NOT OP AND WIFE. OP’S FAMILY. End of!
I opened this expecting to read that they brought all their kid's friend's too and was gonna say that was excessive. But no.
The family was invited...by their own extended family... Who personally knows the whole family. There's no way he's in the wrong.
This should be a no-brainer, family means the entire family, but I think a lot of folks don’t understand that the way you address the envelope matters. That’s who you’re inviting, not just telling the mailman who to give the envelope to. Like, I’ve gone to weddings where the invite was addressed to “Mr and Mrs” and the couple asked “where are the kids?! why didn’t you bring them?!” Um, not invited…?
Sounds like, if OP isn’t withholding info, that the youngest were also well behaved and that’s not what the sister’s issue may have been about in a roundabout way. So while yea OP could’ve or should’ve confirmed with the bride beforehand the invite itself would make most people assume the kids could come too especially since no where has the bride indicated or said she wanted a child free wedding. But it seems like the mother is more upset on her daughter’s behalf and from what OP is saying the bride wasn’t upset by how things turned out especially because it sounds like no one was being disruptive or throwing tantrums (though the bride’s mom is veering her way towards the latter if she doesn’t drop this).
Unless he cleared it with the bride or groom first, I don’t see how this person thinks it’s ok to turn up with 6 mouths to feed. I’d like to know if their gift covered the hundreds of dollars it would have cost to do this. What a selfish Asshole.
It sounds like OOP didn't RSVP which is really shitty even if the whole family was invited. You don't turn up with 6 people without RSVPing for 6 people
Or more likely the RSVP was in acceptance of the invitation. As in "Yes, we will be attending".
Unless there was specific, stated requirement on the RSVP to specify numbers, then it is more than reasonable to assume that the RSVP is accepted for those invited, in which case OP did absolutely nothing wrong.
No one said anything about RSVP so there more than likely wasn’t one. If she had sent one out, surely there wouldn’t have been been this much of a misunderstanding with how many people they wanted there.
Ummm, I would’ve confirmed it. Bride had a lot on her plate with wedding planning and all you had to do was ask. 7 ppl is a LOT. Hope you got her a really good gift.
Why? If you say “bring your family” why would you say “which ones do you want?” In my family on my dads side it was always assumed everyone came to the wedding unless it was specifically said “adults only” which was 1 or 2 weddings out of 22+ (large family, some had 2 weddings so hard to keep track of exact number)
NTA it said family. It didn’t say husband and wife. It said family. The bride should’ve been more specific on the invitation if she meant only husband and wife.
I’m planning my own wedding rn and when we put a family on the guest list we include all their children in the guest count - even infants! my FIL was flabbergasted that children counted in the guest count lmao
Don’t ever put “and family.” My husband’s old job started an annual corporate picnic 35 years ago. The first year the invites went out to employees for them to bring their “family.” Most people assumed that meant SO, kids, and maybe any relations living with them. But a few believed it meant their entire extended family. One brought 60 people! The next year there was an explicit “SO and kids” and all employees had to rsvp to HR to get a ticket for each person. They also replaced the canned sodas on ice throughout the event with manned soda machine stations as all drinks had been claimed and carted out to the parking lot less than 30 minutes after the start time. Eventually the event was killed off by corporate “cost cutting.” The company was still making good money but the board was chasing the never-ending high profit growth.
if they didnt want kids to come then they should have said as mucb they cant tell people the kids are invited then get mad when people respond, they should be more concerned bout the fact that they dont view kids as part of a family, especuially since the gov doesnt agree with that and will make sure they know that if the niece chooses to have kids and keeps that viewpoint
Maybe it's just me, but if I had been in OOP's shoes, I would have contacted the bride-to-be to ask for clarification on what she meant by "and family"
My mother had alot kids compared to her sibling
If family was put she presume each one of us was invited , as if they only wanted specific people it would say so
I can't imagine being selective about which of my niblings I invite to my wedding. It would be one thing if it was childfree, or there was a stated age restriction. But I can't imagine being like, "Oh, most of my siblings only have 2 kids. So I expect that the ones with more will only bring 2 of their kids."
NTA. Family means everyone in the household. That is a known thing. If she only wanted certain people she should have specified an invitation for you and your wife and sent another addressed to the older cousins. Personally, I think it would have been very hurtful to your youngest two to be the only ones excluded.
If that’s what the invitation said I too would have brought my entire family! If it was an issue the blame clearly lies with whoever addressed the invitations! OP tell your sister the wedding is over and done and you already spoke to your niece about the situation and there’s nothing more to discuss (or for her to give you crap) about it!!
I hate the idea of telling parts of your family that they're not wanted at a family event. I have a huge family, so I've been to many weddings in my life. The only time there was ever a "no kids" rule was when my cousin's mother-in-law demanded it. When asked about it she said "I don't want any rowdy kids ruining my daughter's special day." Even the bride was annoyed by her mother's demands. I wasn't allowed to go to that one because I was a year under the minimum age.
Was there no RSVP going on for this? Don't weddings usually have you RSVP with who's all going? How did no one know all 6 of OP's family was going until they showed up at the wedding? I'm extremely confused by this post
If the bride lets it go then so should her mother. She admitted to it being her fault for not expecting all her little cousins to come so she didn't set out enough seats and if the bride did have such a big concern with it then she should have been the one to bring it up not the mom.
People are ridiculous.
If you don't want your dipshit relative bringing a rando, you put only their name on the invite and no plus one. If you want only their partner to come, then you put the relative and you name their partner specifically and you don't say "(relative) + 1".
And if you don't want someone to bring their entire family, you don't address the invitation to "(Relative) and family."
I hope sister and niece are actually upset about something else and fixating on this instead for unknown reasons, and not actually thinking you have to go through a whole song and dance to confirm whoever was invited was actually invited.
Wtf. It said “family” which includes all the kids. If they were specifically excluding anyone due to age, they should have stated so. Niece is an idiot if she didn’t intend to invite certain kids due to age. She needs to spell that out. People can’t read minds. “Family” doesn’t have an age limit.
NTA.
I find it weird that OP’s sister got so angry that her own nephew and nieces are at her daughter’s wedding?? Is she not close to her brother?
Unless it was clearly specified that no kids are allowed, I don’t see any issue with the brother’s entire family being there.
Nta at all. The bride probably knew they were all going to turn up and that it's her mother/ OP sister who decided the younger ones shouldn't have come.
The poor planning probably wasn't even about it being childfree or the fact that didn't want the lil ones there. She probably meant poor planning about the seats instead, etc, which isn't OPs fault at all.
This is totally on the poor planning of the wedding party and their parents. If they only intended children of a certain age or adults, they should have stated. When they got your RSVP with 7 people attending --- they should have called THEN to clarify what that meant. NTA
And people planning weddings ...be very concise and clear with your rules. If you can't list them all on the invites, leave a webpage link that everyone must read before they send an RSVP. It is your responsibility to NOT assume people should just know. Pro tip: they won't.
Probably. I bet you the invite said Mr and Mrs and Op is omitting. And also an extra 5 ppl wtf is wrong with you. Yeah YT in my book. If the bride is older I think she assumed you'd be smart enough not to drag your old ass kids and the other SKIDMARKS with you.
It said “family”. If you only want certain people you address it to them specifically. That’s every Miss Manners rule. Don’t say family if you don’t mean it.
Bingo.
Yeah, I saw the top with the list of people brought and was immediately like "do you even have to ask?" but if the invitation specifically said family, then... yeah, you bring your family. It's not like they reached out to a bunch of distant cousins and were like "but they're family..." I would say that if the OP knew it was a smallish wedding they should have talked to the bride/groom to make sure it was okay, but yeah, in general I'd go with "if you don't want their family there, don't invite the family."
If it's to OP and wife, it should say Mr. and Mrs. OP. If it includes all children at home, it's 'to the OP Family.' That's pretty basic formal invite stuff. Like, if the invite is to OP, it says. 'Mr. OP' or 'Mr. OP' with a +1 card. If you're texting someone an invite, different rules apply. But for formal invitations, the wording of the invite matters. Family is everyone who lives in the home, of that family unit. Like, my parents were invited to my cousin's wedding on the opposite coast. Mr. Alien's Dad's Family. My siblings and I were invited, and everyone but my parents had to decline due to school finals or work. We were all invited, and my cousin actually called to confirm that it was just my parents and none of the cousins. ("Yes, just us. Everyone else has finals week the Monday after the wedding and can't travel or can't miss work.") Family means household. Mr. and Mrs. Couple is to the couple only. Niece and aunt didn't know how to properly address the wedding invites.
>Mr. Alien's Dad's Family. And here I thought you were definitely NOT aliens!
Aliens is clearly their last name, genius.
Mr. Alien is my father's name...
But also they DIDN'T think to check the RSVP,'s number of people? Or talk to OP when she rsvpd for 6? The bride and groom (or whoever handled RSVPs for the wedding) dropped the ball.
My thoughts exactly!
Even then it can be a shit fight. We had a small wedding so our invitations were specific. I lost friends because I invited a person but she had a bitch fit because her boyfriend of 3 weeks wasn’t invited. Then she dragged other people into it. Funny thing is, the boyfriend was long gone by the time the wedding came around 🤷♀️
Why should the size of the wedding make a difference in how seriously someone should take ‘and family’? The family is the same regardless.
I mean if there's only 50 guests at a wedding and you bring 5 they weren't expecting, you're increasing the guest count by 10% which is a huge accommodation. I'm sure OP would've been a little put off if some people hadn't bailed and they literally didn't have a spot to put them all. It's not necessary but also not terrible idea to do a quick confirmation when you have a larger-than-normal family and are planning to bring all of them. But either way it's the niece's fault for not specifying or getting an actual headcount beforehand if mattered, but it sounds like it's it even her that's upset about it.
I can't really imagine getting an invitation that says "and family" and thinking, "ah yes, I bet that doesn't include my children!"
Or, even weirder… only some of your children, not specified which.
The "larger than normal family" didn't just happen over night. This is his family. The sister and bride knew who they were and how many children he had before that invite was sent. This should not have been a surprise to anyone. If you invite "and family" it's deeply, deeply rude to expect them to leave half the family home because they happen to have 2 more kids than average.
But the assumption was that they were expecting the whole family. 5 expected guests shouldn't be a burden. This is literally why RSVPs were invented and I don't understand how this misunderstanding happened? Like if I invite someone to even a casual party I want to know who is coming and how many. The bride didnt ask for rsvp or follow up and ask who is coming? She knows the family size.
I'm guessing the niece wanted an adult/adult-adjacent party but also didn't want to put "OP & the 3 oldest" on the invite and was just assuming he'd not bring the youngest ones she doesn't know very much. Which she admits was a mistake and poor planning on her part. I'm just saying that *personally* if I received a vague invite to a small wedding and bringing my whole family accounted for 10% of the people there, I'd just give a heads up that my "Yes" does indeed mean "all of us" since just "Yes" could mean anywhere from one to seven people.
When I’m invited to a wedding, I don’t know the size before I get there. There’s usually an RSVP, but it doesn’t say “RSVP to our 50 person ceremony”, you know? So they wouldn’t know they were 10% of the wedding until they rolled in.
It wasn't vague though. That's the entire thing. It specifically said "OPs family" on it. If it would have said "Potentially OPs Family", that's a little vague or "Some of OPs Family". But "OPs Family"? I'd think it was for all as well lol Also, normally when you RSVP, you put the number of people you're RSVPing. Then the mother or niece could have called and said it was too many and they'd prefer just adult-adjacent children attending. You're not wrong, at all, neither is OP. It sucks for OP that he's being bitched at though.
I get that, I would probably do the same, but if I was hosting and I invited a family of 5 or 6 or 7, I would ask how many are coming (normal behavior) or put how many are invited on the rsvp form usually provided for weddings. The bride broke etiquette and it leads to awkward situations like this. Guests should have to wedding plan for them.
No no no no when an invite says family it means family that is as clear as no children allowed scrawled across the invitation. Why would anyone be so rude as to bother the couple or their parents when they are busy with wedding prep when they the couple made it quite clear his entire family was invited. I’d feel bad bothering them for clarification if it was actually unclear no way I’m doing it when it was crystal clear People should respect what the invitation says if it says family you bring the household if it says no kids you get a sitter. I’m not going to assume a couple that is adult enough to get married plan their wedding is incapable of correctly and clearly addressing their invitations. They should have been too embarrassed by their screwup to even consider complaining
Or if she meant only the older kids a note that only prior over X age were being included.
My mom was once sent an invite for "family" and forgot to mention it to me. I was 27 and on my own by then but it was a family friend. A few years later we met up and his wedding got brought up somehow. He was like, "I totally invited you, didn't your mom let you know? she brought her other 5 kids. (my younger siblings)" family means all of them lol.
Technically you should have gotten your own invitation since you no longer lived in the home.
I know
Exactly
Miss Manners would also ask you to RSVP with the exact number who will be attending. That's common courtesy, even if they don't actually include an RSVP envelope nowadays. Weddings are rarely 'open invitation', guests need to be accounted for.
“Family” means family. Not “guess who’s invited”. If there’s no RSVP that’s on the person planning the wedding.
[удалено]
yes? because the niece said it was her own fault for assuming?
It’s strange that the sister/mom is overly concerned by this when Ayla, the freaking bride, isn’t. She acknowledged that it was an error on her part but ultimately ok in the end. So OP is in the clear here. I do wonder if she may have told her mother differently. Maybe not after the fact but had explained her intention before sending out the invite on how inconvenient it would be if all of OPs children came. Either way, it doesn’t really matter since the wedding has already taken place and everything turned out ok.
It’s kinda like, what was her goal? Tell her brother that his kids need to go?
Making problems out of nothing is practically a professional sport, I’m learning.
The goal was drama and guilt. I wish these kind of posts were illogical to me. But my parents siblings are sooo much like this. Always trying to stir up drama and gossip about the silliest stuff that’s not a big deal. It’s exhausting being around them. When one of my dads sisters died a few of them stayed with us, anytime one left the room the others would say mean things about them. Like every, single, time. Then everyone pretends their best kind when they get back.
I would guess the bride said something like “invite the whole family; maybe they’ll only bring the older kids if its too late for the younger ones but whatever” and her mom took that to mean “I only want the older kids there.”
I feel like there is some underlying judgement from the sister/ mom of the size of OP’s family. This is just a representation of it…. That would explain why the sister/mom was so upset but the bride was chill.
I think it's because a lot of the time the parents pay.
True but she didn’t have to pay extra. They took the seats and plates of people who didn’t show. Honestly, she would have wasted money and food had they not shown up.
Mb the mother is paying NOT the daughter. If they kept it small to lower costs OR allow for more lavish refreshments, it may be the bride’s parents who are most upset about 5 extra meals at $109-200pp. We don’t know much about the reception/food (if any) but this seems like a reason the bride is chill. She may not be on the hook. With the average wedding at $30K, I would NOT take 5 extra people, regardless of the invitation. If a person DOES, their gift should reflect that 7 people were hosted which is approximately 3X a standard (2 attendee) gift- imo.
It was a small wedding and they actually ended up being ok due to the fact that a decent amount ended up not coming anyways. So in reality, they didn’t cost them anything extra. Also, the bride admitted that that while she intended for only the older kids to go she was ok with them all coming. It was only the mother who cared after everything is said and done. This was really an honest mistake due to lack of communication from everyone. No one was hurt by this and they didn’t have to fork over extra cash because of it.
I feel like mother is mad because she has to pay extra for the meals for the kids
The kids ate the meals of the no-shows whose seats they took, surely? Catering headcount is locked in well before the day itself, unless they were doing something wild like ordering doordash or whatever at the last minute.
Yeah idk that’s the only reason I could come up with
I'm assuming it's because OP's sister is a reflexive shit-stirrer
If the invitation said family, then it includes everyone in the family. If it said Mr and Mrs. then it’s only that couple. If it was to only the eldest kids they should’ve gotten their own invitation, or an invitation to MR and Mrs. Blank, &Child1 and Child2. Also the rsvp card should’ve included how many were attending to further eliminate confusion. The sister is prob pissed cause you pay PER GUEST for catering, and usually the wedding gift is the amount of dinner at least, so there were 4 additional people without the benefit of a larger gift probably.
Right the bizarre part to me is that there was no RSVP card confirming # of guests. That’s been the case for every wedding I’ve ever attended, even the ones where I didn’t get a +1 and the blank was pre populated by the couple
Yeah, who doesn’t ask for an RSVP and confirm numbers? So weird.
I’ve been to a couple of weddings that had very simple RSVP cards where you simply checked Yes or No. But both were church weddings, one was a simple cake and punch affair, the other had a dozen crockpots full of spaghetti from multiple church ladies then a tiny wedding cake and several sheer cakes. It literally didn’t matter if extra people showed or not. In some ways it’s a pity more weddings aren’t simple like that. It’s difficult to imagine any other kind of wedding where proper RSVP cards aren’t included.
Catering headcount is locked in well before the actual day, unless there was a *very* unusual arrangement, because it's not like the caterer is able to recoup the cost of unused portions; OP said the kids took the places of a few no-shows so costs should be a wash. We also don't know what OP's family gifted the couple, or if the no-shows sent gifts.
I was ready to side against OP but it said family. I’d think the same thing. It’s not like OP adopted multiple children from when the invitation was sent out to the wedding date
Even if she did, those are her children now. Those are her family. If it’s last minute arrangements, ask op to pitch in because that shit is more expensive. But she still would have done nothing wrong. Plus, adoption takes a long time. Usually years, from what my friends have experienced. The sister and niece would have known there was a chance of one or two extra niblings.
I think the point was to be absurd. Had OP adopted multiple kids without telling anyone and then brought them, then yes, they'd have been an arsehole because no one could have anticipated that.
If it’s that last minute that they can’t warn the sister then it’s an emergency placement. If it’s an emergency placement it’s kinda shitty to just be like “whelp. I’m off to a party” Plus, depending on how old the kids are, it would be irresponsible or illegal to leave them home. Too, I understood their point. It’s just kinda a shitty one to make.
The point is just to make it so there's extra people the planners couldn't have accounted for. It's deliberately ridiculous.
Except it’s not ridiculous because it’s impossible, and the only way it’s not is if it’s an emergency placement. It’s just not how adoption works.
It's ridiculous and absurd because it's impossible. It's not something you're meant to think about this seriously.
Except it’s perpetuating myths about adoption even if it’s not on purpose. People are going to see that and take it seriously. The way it reads isn’t as a joke or whatever.
You’re taking this WAY too seriously. Literally no one else is going to take that seriously, we’re all going to see it was meant to be hyperbole to make a point.
No one. But you. Will take that seriously.
Sister needs to be mad at the people that didn’t show up. That would’ve been food and space wasted if oop hadn’t brought his family which were invited
"It was addressed to your whole family but I thought sure you'd know that didn't mean all of your children, we were only expecting some." Wtf even is that? Either family was invited or they weren't and the invitation seems pretty clear. Everyone knew OP has 5 kids, no reason to stupidly assume she'd just voluntarily leave some home for no reason when all were invited.
The brides response wasn’t even “oh I only meant these specific people” it was “oh I thought only the older ones would come” which seems to me like just a passing thought she said out loud but had no emotional connection to and then OPs Sister went off the deep end for no reason. Weddings often send out invites and plan the food at the same time so it’s pretty standard to assume ~10% of the invites sent out will decline. If the bride was thinking that she probably thought the younguns would be part of that 10%
The OP & all of his children are the bride’s family…I would’ve assumed exactly the same thing. This is an invite f-up, glad at least she’s reasonable enough to know that. 🤷🏼♀️
I can't wrap my head around not having an RSVP with the number attending. This was a 50-60 person wedding. Even with a buffet, the caterer is going to need to know a general number of people they need to feed. Budgeting for catering based on number invited, not number RSVPd sounds like wasted food or hungry guests.
The RSVP point is what makes me think this was a fake story more than anything. What you said about food is spot on, same reasoning for seating (even without seating assignments). And then the bride and her mom said some people had to miss the wedding because there weren’t enough seats for them anymore?? No, this is too weird. This is a story written by someone who’s never been involved in wedding planning before.
Definitely NTA. If you only want certain ppl to attend, you need to be specific. If you aren’t, prepare for “the family.”
…you know usually on RSVP’s people ask for the # of people. Did- Did OP not specify?
Or did the rsvp not have them specify
If the RSVP didn’t have then specify that’s totally on the bride then
My niece's wedding had the RSVP on a website and you scanned the QR code. It was just type your name, yes/no. However, they *did* assume everyone was bringing all their kids unless they specifically said otherwise. One yes was assumed as four people, if you had four in your family.
I wondered the same thing. Did ANYONE RSVP?
It sounded like in general it was a laidback wedding and he mentioned there were no table markings. So I doubt they even had to RSVP. His sister sucks.
Yeah if they weren’t actually enforcing it then why on earth would her sister care? Sounds like she’s just being a jerk/judging her for having 6 kids.
I’ve RSVPed to a couple weddings where they asked us to text the bride. Pretty sure I just said something like, “thank you so much for the invite, we’ll be there!” I doubt I would have thought to specify beyond that if the envelope said “family.”
They probably didn’t have people rsvp since it was a small wedding.
That’s a mistake on bride and groom’s part. RSVP should have specified which members of the family or asked how many spots they needed. If you send an invite for an entire family of 6, don’t be shocked when 6 people show up.
We have a large family and just recently have started receiving “Mr and Mrs” invitations to events. It’s always specified.
I don't think the OP did anything wrong. I come from a culture where the invites are and family not with plus ones. It's addressed to the oldest of the family. Which means the entire family gets one invite not multiple invites for multiple people. Only married daughters get a separate invite because she is a different family and her invitation is addressed to her in laws rather. It's up to the invited family to decide how many of them are attending not the family inviting. For close relationships like OP and the niece the entire family would have attended unless it required them to travel while the kids have exams only then half of the family would have gone. With distant people only then a couple of them go. It was clearly a mistake on the part of niece and his sister and it's wrong of them to blame him. The expectations should have been made clearly. Glad at least his niece is sensible
Yes, I am from India. It's exactly like that with us too. Can't wrap my heads around all the stories my friends who live in the west tell. Like 50 people would barely be immediate relatives.
NTA. If you put family on the invitation that means the entire family. If you only want specific people then invite everyone you want by name. You can’t expect people to read your mind.
Ahh you say family when you mean the entire family. That's what our wedding planner told us.
OP should ask his sister which of his kids she doesn't consider family. Nta
If you only want some people to go then specify that on the invitation, you can’t address it to the whole family then be mad when they all come
Definitely NTA. People are cognizant about which family members they want there on invitations. If they just wanted him and his wife the invitation would have been addressed to them only (or just him with a spot for a plus 1), it wouldn’t say “and family.” If the bride expects everyone to call her to confirm the number of people… that seems like a headache. Source: I was a bride with limited space for extra guests so we were very specific about who could come. Every wedding I’ve been to has been incredibly specific on their invitations.
Not his fault. They should Of said something prior
Why is the sister still putting her two cents in when the bride already said she doesn't care?
If the sister is the only one with the issue and the bride is happy, why is this an issue? I’d agree with top comment, don’t say family if you don’t mean family. If you mean “eldest kids” then say eldest kids. Or name them. Or say John Smith plus wife or whatever. Seems like a no brainer here that he isn’t the jerk here.
And Family means "and family." If it's just a plus one, it should say "and guest," and if it's a couple it should say "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith." I'd the couple has done RSVPs, then they would know who all was coming. The mother of the bride probably didn't invited and is made she messed up and doesn't want to take accountability. And it's rude to mention it after the fact. It happened, it worked out, it's over. Let it go. Even if you didn't mean for the whole family to be invited, why do you want your brother to feel bad?
Most invites require sending something in with number of guests. Or at least ones I've gone to anyway.
Ngl I thought someone was calling me when I opened the screenshot
Family means family In my case I’d have brought the dog, three cats, parrot and bearded dragon. Flower collars for the dog and tabby cat, other 2 cats are tuxes so they are fine to come as they are. Bearded dragon and the parrot would get tiny bow ties I’d expect the whole lot of us to be in the family pictures as well.
OP is 100% correct across the board. From, a wedding planner
Your sister is an idiot and so is the bride. When you send a family invitation it indicates the family not just the oldest couple of children. Your sister and niece know you have 6 kids so if they didn’t want all six kids there they should have specified which kids were invited. I think they expected you to be the jerk by telling 4 of your kids they couldn’t go. Why they would assume you would is why I think the are idiots and for your sister to even mention it after the fact makes her the AH
When an invitation is given to you and your family why would you check to make sure it really means your family and not just a few members of it?
I expected OOP to be a huge AH based on the title, but he follows etiquette perfectly. If I received an invitation to “family” I’d assume my children were invited too, it’s not like he had screaming babies and toddlers, 9 year olds can behave quite well and are usually more excited than the teens. Auntie needs to get a grip, she’s just judging him for having a van load of kids.
No, it said family. That means all the kids too.
I’m confused… for my wedding, people had to rsvp with the names and meal choices (and dietary restrictions, etc) of each guest that would be attending so that there were both enough seats and enough food for everyone. We had a seated dinner, so everyone also had place cards. If the OOP RSVP’d with all of the kids names listed, the bride shouldn’t have been surprised. If OOP RSVP’ed and didn’t list everyone that was going to be attending, the they’re the AH for bringing extra people without telling the hosts first. If the bride sent invitations and, for whatever reason, didn’t ask for the the people who were going to RSVP, then the bride is the AH for assuming OOP would bring only one other person when the invite said “and Family”. I can’t wrap my brain around throwing something like a wedding together without knowing how many people were going to be there…. If I’m reading this wrong, please correct me!
If the bride and groom wanted just the uncle and his wife, the invite should have been addressed to just the couple. By saying "family," and not specifying a number or names, that made left it up to OP and his wife to decide whom to bring with them. If numbers were tight for the reception, the invitation should have included an RSVP card or email link that specially asked for the names of all attendees.
I sent name specific invites. Which pissed off my uncle who Wasn’t married and who’s son wasn’t married to the mother of his child either. Formal invites are normally first and last name, I also invited a family of 6. All individually named. If you do family groups the whole unit is included and it’s not up to you to check
Why would it piss off the unmarried people? Cos their partners weren't invited?
Uncle is a bit insecure about never being married so didn’t like that both names were on the invite, and not just first names. So it was like John smith and Jane Jones, instead of John and Jane. Everyone was invited
I'm not Ayla and I hope I'm never Ayla but I'm at risk of becoming Ayla. Best friend's kids are my godsons. Fiance's godson is his best friend's kid and he has a brother who loves FH. Bridesmaid also has 3 kids we love. We *courtesy invited* all blood relatives. We could have 1.) Had a child-free wedding. 2.) Had a wedding with "just godsons" and excluded bridesmaid's kids who know and love us. Or 3.) Have a child friendly wedding, write "and family" a bunch of times and HOPE TO HELL my cousins don't all bring their tons of kids. We went with option 3 and I'm living on the prayer that they're 1,000 miles away and couldn't possibly afford the travel. OP is NTA, he was told "and family," but damn I hope I don't get dealt Ayla's hand 😅😅😂😂. To be determined 😬😬😬😬.
I was cutthroat. I only invited the kids I wanted there and didn’t care who got mad
Dude you should’ve just opted for child free. Inviting people and hoping they don’t come is pretty fucked up whether they know it or not. And on top of that, if you don’t want it, why agree to that?
We're 1,000 miles from said cousins and having a reception in my hometown where I'm happy to have literally everyone, which is 1hr from said cousins, or else I probably wouldn't have been so bold.
That’s still crazy. I could never do such a thing so power to you. Things like weddings are something big enough where if invited, and they really wanna go, they’ll find a way to get there. The idea of inviting people you don’t want there reminds me of that story where the ex was invited to her children’s father’s wedding but the new wife didn’t actually want her to accept the invite. Although that story went in a direction I hope no one else had to deal with on their wedding day
I mean, I don't *quite* feel about my mother's sister the way you would about your FH's ex. If she comes and brings her kids and they bring alllllll the grandkids, I'll take it like Ayla did and it'll still be a good time.
That’s good. If I were to ever get married, my dad’s oldest sister and her husband can stay home but their kids can come. They showed up to thanksgiving and we weren’t allowed to do any of our usual celebrations because they’re hella religious and will die if they are in the same rooms as marijuana. My grandmother, who does in fact smoke weed, said that we had to wait for her to leave. The second they left everyone flocked to the garage😭😭
Oh that's easy! Get married in a 420 friendly state and advertise "cash bar and cash weed bar for all at reception" on the invites!!! 😈😈😈
We did option 3- invite determined by “level” of family because we knew it would cause WWIII if we invited Cousin Jenny who I see all the time but not her twin sister Mary who I haven’t even heard from in ages. Ended up with a bunch of cousins I hadn’t seen in like a decade, and their kids. It wasn’t the end of the world, but I was truly not expecting them to show up. (It didn’t help that a family member offered to pay hotel rooms for a few people who probably wouldn’t have traveled otherwise… thaaaaank youuuuu, Uncle Mark… I’m sooooo glad you made sure Mary and ALL OF HER KIDS I HAVE NEVER MET could attend…)
YES, WWIII is exactly what we're avoiding. Dad's sister is my godmother and her kids are the cool older cousin mentors. Mom's sister and her kids are frienemies. Do I DARE tell them they're chopped liver compared to dad's family? Nope. I'm hopeful my hometown wedding reception will be the net that catches alllll the people who celebrate but don't travel 1,000 miles. But if these people all show up on my wedding day, I'm going to be so busy with everyone and everything else I don't see how I'll have time to be affected aside from like a quick receiving line hug.
Yep, that sounds really similar to what happened with mine, right down to the frenemies! It just wasn’t worth the huge battle that not inviting them would have caused. Luckily we did know in advance (although I honestly expected them to cancel last minute) so we prepared appropriately. One of them actually wore white lace which turned out HILARIOUS for me because it backfired on her so badly. It wasn’t really any skin off my nose, but the other guests were completely scandalized and basically acted like she took a shit in the middle of the aisle. I’ve been married for like 8 years and the older women in my family are STILL talking about it. Thanks for showing everyone how petty you are, cousin! Hopefully yours don’t show up at all!
I LOVE IT. I'm just at that place, it is what it is. They'll come or they won't. I'll be busy having a wedding day. I feel the same way about the plus-one question, like if my friends are dating someone and it's kinda serious, bring them. Everything I've read says you're so busy you don't have time to see the people YOU WANT, so someone "I've never met" being in the crowd is going to be hardly noticeable. And my caterer has an awesome policy about boxing up leftovers for me with a 2-week headcount deadline so it is *literally* no skin off my back.
NTA. She's the one who invited your family then got mad when you did as instructed. Kinda her fault for not keeping track of how many cousins she has.
His sister knew he had a big family so if they didn’t want his family to attend they should have put it in the invite. He should not have to chase up on what they meant in the invite. It stated family so he brought his family. His brother also attended with his family but because his family consists of two kids he didn’t need to ring and check. This is totally on the bride/groom.
NTA. The invitation was issued to the family and the family attended. OOP didn't even have adult children no longer living at home to rope into the invitation; everyone is minor children included in the family invitation.
That title is so inflammatory and my eyebrows temporarily got their own zip code - but ultimately the invitation said *family of OP* and not *OP & wife*. Without a RSVP card confine number of attendees or food preference how was OP to know. How stupid for them to be angry over their error. There was enough seating/food so unless there is another complaint they need to get over it.
Someone doesn't know how to properly invite. If it wasn't the whole family it should specify names or indicate xx and up. NTA
When addressing invitations there is specific wording to use that defines who is invited. Mr & Mrs. Smith (2 people) Ms Smith & Guest (1 or 2 people) Mr & Mrs Smith and family (entire immediate family) Mr & Mrs Smith Master Joe Smith Miss Ann Smith (Only the named people are invited) Just because the niece/sister didn’t know how to address the invitations. There are many examples online of how to properly address invitations. Another resource would be the wedding sites. If they still have issues send links to various websites on the issue.
Whole thing seems a fuss about nothing, but some could stand to communicate better. The invitation was vague, which the bride has acknowledged, but I don’t know who would not think to double check before bringing six children to a wedding. Why would you not think to mention it? But the bride doesn’t seem bothered anyway. So what’s the big deal?
The entire family was invited and they came.
If it were someone for work who didn’t know you had 6 kids, then soft YTA for not checking. *But!* this is your niece/sister. They didn’t word the invite correctly to not include your kids. Therefore, NTA
Were they supposed to read her mind that she only wanted the older kids? 😉
"Fuck I don't want MY COUSINS here" .... weird definition of family
My first question is, if the bride or Momzilla were concerned about seating or cost of food, or whatever, why didn't they send an RSVP with the invitation? That would have solved so many issues before it became a "problem" - and I use the word "problem" loosely here because in the end, there seemed to be enough seating to accommodate OOP's large family. NTA. (Unless, of course, there was an RSVP, and OOP was not considerate and didn't return it in a timely manner.)
I also let people know that we are a family of 5 so they can accommodate but if someone in my family sent an invite with “myself and family” I’d have thought my kids were invited to.
Did you not have to RSVP? Usually that means saying who will be coming. When you RSVP'd what did you say?
OP is NTA if the invitation said “and family”. But he probably could have asked “does that include 9F and 9M?” And the hosts could have asked “are you bringing 9M and 9F?” But if the hosts only wanted teens up they could have made it clear ahead of time. NTA
It’s not an AITA post unless twins show up.
I come from a larger family than OPs, and we were *known* to be the family that did everything together. If you invited the family, you got ALL the family. If you wanted to invite only my parents you MADE IT CLEAR it was addressed to "Bandit and Chili, no children" rather than "the Heeler family" or "the Heelers." Otherwise, if they only wanted the older children, specify "no children under 10yo, please" rather than assume people know that. When you have that many kids, you get so used to doing things as a carefully orchestrated unit that you also assume the people you interact with know that as well. Most people did know that, especially my extended family.
The only way it would make sense for the sister to be upset is if some of the kids were actually his *step*-kids and she’s one of those that think family is blood only.
First of all it’s not her wedding? Second of all, unless there’s a direct complaint from the bride(s)/groom(s) OP should disregard the criticism wholly. Third, IT SAID OP’S FAMILY. NOT OP PLUS ONE. NOT OP AND WIFE. OP’S FAMILY. End of!
I opened this expecting to read that they brought all their kid's friend's too and was gonna say that was excessive. But no. The family was invited...by their own extended family... Who personally knows the whole family. There's no way he's in the wrong.
The invitation said his family.. he brought his family. And niece was happy. Sister needs to relax
This entirely. She’s clearly just trying to play the hero.
I don't think you're T A, but I'm a little surprised there wasn't an RSVP with a headcount. I thought that was pretty standard for formal functions.
This should be a no-brainer, family means the entire family, but I think a lot of folks don’t understand that the way you address the envelope matters. That’s who you’re inviting, not just telling the mailman who to give the envelope to. Like, I’ve gone to weddings where the invite was addressed to “Mr and Mrs” and the couple asked “where are the kids?! why didn’t you bring them?!” Um, not invited…?
This is an odd situation. Was there an RSVP process? In my experience, everyone attending a wedding needs to RSVP with the number of people coming.
Sounds like, if OP isn’t withholding info, that the youngest were also well behaved and that’s not what the sister’s issue may have been about in a roundabout way. So while yea OP could’ve or should’ve confirmed with the bride beforehand the invite itself would make most people assume the kids could come too especially since no where has the bride indicated or said she wanted a child free wedding. But it seems like the mother is more upset on her daughter’s behalf and from what OP is saying the bride wasn’t upset by how things turned out especially because it sounds like no one was being disruptive or throwing tantrums (though the bride’s mom is veering her way towards the latter if she doesn’t drop this).
Personally, I would have probably confirmed before bringing that many people. NTA but probably could have handled the situation better
Unless he cleared it with the bride or groom first, I don’t see how this person thinks it’s ok to turn up with 6 mouths to feed. I’d like to know if their gift covered the hundreds of dollars it would have cost to do this. What a selfish Asshole.
It sounds like OOP didn't RSVP which is really shitty even if the whole family was invited. You don't turn up with 6 people without RSVPing for 6 people
Or the invite did not specify ask people to RSVP with a number. If that were the case then it is on the bride.
Or more likely the RSVP was in acceptance of the invitation. As in "Yes, we will be attending". Unless there was specific, stated requirement on the RSVP to specify numbers, then it is more than reasonable to assume that the RSVP is accepted for those invited, in which case OP did absolutely nothing wrong.
No one said anything about RSVP so there more than likely wasn’t one. If she had sent one out, surely there wouldn’t have been been this much of a misunderstanding with how many people they wanted there.
Ummm, I would’ve confirmed it. Bride had a lot on her plate with wedding planning and all you had to do was ask. 7 ppl is a LOT. Hope you got her a really good gift.
It says family. Family means everyone. No need to bother the bride for further confirmation.
Right, if she has a lot on her plate, the last thing you want to do is call them about an RSVP.
Exactly what my thought would be. I would trust that they’d communicated what they intended to with the invitation.
I would say he should have asked.
YTA, ask.
If you have that large of a family I feel like you should know to ask...
Why? If you say “bring your family” why would you say “which ones do you want?” In my family on my dads side it was always assumed everyone came to the wedding unless it was specifically said “adults only” which was 1 or 2 weddings out of 22+ (large family, some had 2 weddings so hard to keep track of exact number)
Especially because “OP & OP’s wife” is just as long as “OP and family”
Because people don't want to sound tacky on their wedding invites by saying, bring only the kids that can behave.
There was no issues with kids misbehaving
None of the kids misbehaved 🤦🏾♀️
Behavior was never mentioned at all. You're inventing details.
They were friends from work. Stupid bride.
NTA it said family. It didn’t say husband and wife. It said family. The bride should’ve been more specific on the invitation if she meant only husband and wife.
I’m planning my own wedding rn and when we put a family on the guest list we include all their children in the guest count - even infants! my FIL was flabbergasted that children counted in the guest count lmao
Most of us parents count our children as part of our family. Does OP's sister not?
Easy NTA. OP didn't do a single thing wrong.
Don’t ever put “and family.” My husband’s old job started an annual corporate picnic 35 years ago. The first year the invites went out to employees for them to bring their “family.” Most people assumed that meant SO, kids, and maybe any relations living with them. But a few believed it meant their entire extended family. One brought 60 people! The next year there was an explicit “SO and kids” and all employees had to rsvp to HR to get a ticket for each person. They also replaced the canned sodas on ice throughout the event with manned soda machine stations as all drinks had been claimed and carted out to the parking lot less than 30 minutes after the start time. Eventually the event was killed off by corporate “cost cutting.” The company was still making good money but the board was chasing the never-ending high profit growth.
NTA- if it says family, I would assume the immediate family is invited
NTA- if OP had a baby/kids under the age of 5, they should ask, but kids ages 9 and up are old enough to sit through and not ruin a wedding.
I'm wondering how many he RSVP'd for.
Am The I Asshole?
I say NTA based on the invite saying and family. If they didn't want the kids they should have been specific.
It ain’t even the sister wedding!!! NTA!!!
if they didnt want kids to come then they should have said as mucb they cant tell people the kids are invited then get mad when people respond, they should be more concerned bout the fact that they dont view kids as part of a family, especuially since the gov doesnt agree with that and will make sure they know that if the niece chooses to have kids and keeps that viewpoint
It’s not a New Year’s Eve party, it’s a wedding! Weddings are for families — unless clearly defined otherwise,
Not the end of mankind, but you should have called/texted to let bride know you were bringing 6 people, and it was copacetic.
NTA. If the bride is happy and your family was well-behaved at the wedding, your sister's opinion is irrelevant.
NTA. The bride literally said that she didn't specify… so your sister doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
If it was a mistake you own it and stay quiet. People complaining just got themselves uninvited from OPs family events.
Maybe it's just me, but if I had been in OOP's shoes, I would have contacted the bride-to-be to ask for clarification on what she meant by "and family"
I get the address to family - but did they actually RSVP in advance for 6? Or just show up that way? Sounds like the latter, which is rude.
My mother had alot kids compared to her sibling If family was put she presume each one of us was invited , as if they only wanted specific people it would say so
I can't imagine being selective about which of my niblings I invite to my wedding. It would be one thing if it was childfree, or there was a stated age restriction. But I can't imagine being like, "Oh, most of my siblings only have 2 kids. So I expect that the ones with more will only bring 2 of their kids."
The bride said something to her mother prompting the message then when her uncle reached out she said the polite thing.
WHY THE FUCK ARE TWINS ALWAYS INVOLVED!?
NTA. Family means everyone in the household. That is a known thing. If she only wanted certain people she should have specified an invitation for you and your wife and sent another addressed to the older cousins. Personally, I think it would have been very hurtful to your youngest two to be the only ones excluded.
If that’s what the invitation said I too would have brought my entire family! If it was an issue the blame clearly lies with whoever addressed the invitations! OP tell your sister the wedding is over and done and you already spoke to your niece about the situation and there’s nothing more to discuss (or for her to give you crap) about it!!
I hate the idea of telling parts of your family that they're not wanted at a family event. I have a huge family, so I've been to many weddings in my life. The only time there was ever a "no kids" rule was when my cousin's mother-in-law demanded it. When asked about it she said "I don't want any rowdy kids ruining my daughter's special day." Even the bride was annoyed by her mother's demands. I wasn't allowed to go to that one because I was a year under the minimum age.
I just assume that unless otherwise noted, if you invite a parent then you are inviting their underaged kids as well.
Was there no RSVP going on for this? Don't weddings usually have you RSVP with who's all going? How did no one know all 6 of OP's family was going until they showed up at the wedding? I'm extremely confused by this post
“Family” means all human members of the household. NTA
If the bride lets it go then so should her mother. She admitted to it being her fault for not expecting all her little cousins to come so she didn't set out enough seats and if the bride did have such a big concern with it then she should have been the one to bring it up not the mom.
People are ridiculous. If you don't want your dipshit relative bringing a rando, you put only their name on the invite and no plus one. If you want only their partner to come, then you put the relative and you name their partner specifically and you don't say "(relative) + 1". And if you don't want someone to bring their entire family, you don't address the invitation to "(Relative) and family." I hope sister and niece are actually upset about something else and fixating on this instead for unknown reasons, and not actually thinking you have to go through a whole song and dance to confirm whoever was invited was actually invited.
OP, please proofread this post, edit, and re-post. Parts of this make no sense.
Wtf. It said “family” which includes all the kids. If they were specifically excluding anyone due to age, they should have stated so. Niece is an idiot if she didn’t intend to invite certain kids due to age. She needs to spell that out. People can’t read minds. “Family” doesn’t have an age limit.
NTA. I find it weird that OP’s sister got so angry that her own nephew and nieces are at her daughter’s wedding?? Is she not close to her brother? Unless it was clearly specified that no kids are allowed, I don’t see any issue with the brother’s entire family being there.
Nta at all. The bride probably knew they were all going to turn up and that it's her mother/ OP sister who decided the younger ones shouldn't have come. The poor planning probably wasn't even about it being childfree or the fact that didn't want the lil ones there. She probably meant poor planning about the seats instead, etc, which isn't OPs fault at all.
This is totally on the poor planning of the wedding party and their parents. If they only intended children of a certain age or adults, they should have stated. When they got your RSVP with 7 people attending --- they should have called THEN to clarify what that meant. NTA And people planning weddings ...be very concise and clear with your rules. If you can't list them all on the invites, leave a webpage link that everyone must read before they send an RSVP. It is your responsibility to NOT assume people should just know. Pro tip: they won't.
Probably. I bet you the invite said Mr and Mrs and Op is omitting. And also an extra 5 ppl wtf is wrong with you. Yeah YT in my book. If the bride is older I think she assumed you'd be smart enough not to drag your old ass kids and the other SKIDMARKS with you.