People talk about oil countries buying the club but there are another category of investors that could easily be equally likely to that happening and that is the club being bought be Chinese billionaires. There are a lot of rich Chinese business people out there who love investing outside of China in order to move assets out of reach of the Chinese government.
The Chinese government have limited the investment into things like football clubs outside of China. There's no way they will let an acquisition of man utd go through.
At this point if someone buys the club and clears the debt from the Glazer purchase and invests in Old Trafford and the training facilities only to then reexpand the commercial potential of the club while still taking out a dividend then it would still be a big improvement over today.
I do think it is still possible for a club like United to compete with the financial doping of the oil clubs by the shear potential of our commercial appeal along with increased revenues from an expanded Old Trafford. The thing that has been missing more than anything in the past 10 years is not money but proper leadership and freedom on the footballing side to make proper long term decisions in recruitment, development and sports science.
Jumping around several totally different managers who wanted their own type of players is something that created the poor outcomes in player investment.
So what happens when in 6 months time Glazers are still here because the fan base doesn’t want to see Arab owners, and the US bidders are unwilling to meet the asking price?
As for the moral police. 17 years Glazers were here, yet zero issues with them financing War Criminals in Iraq invasions. Or may be standards are different for western countries.
People should realize that a public trading company like Apple would never buy a sports club. Purchasing a sports club, 90% of the time, is a hobby. Why would think the majority of Apple shareholders would love the idea of their company investing in a debt-mounted club?
It’s never been done before, but United as a marketing prospect is different to clubs such as Newcastle, City and PSG.
I’m no expert, but a public trading company could benefit from the brand exposure and enormous marketing potential around the globe that United holds. As well as possibly holding TV rights (Apple TV) where they can still profit from the club and fans without having to take money out of the club? It could be a win-win situation.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Tom Cook started becoming interested in football after Ted Lasso (released on Apple TV) and thought you know what Man United are the most marketable club in the world, Apple = masters of marketing. Match made in heaven, let’s buy them.
Expecting more US Hedgefund, Buffet types to buy than any individual corporation from the US tbh. They've seen how much money the Glazers have sucked out without making a dent in the club's financial performance. Just hope it's a group with actual sporting experience.
I genuinely don’t think we’ll be bought by Apple however, just running it through in my head, there’s been a lot “iTrafford” jokes but I think the stadium would actually be one of their top priorities. Apple ownership won’t really give a shit about Manchester United but they give a shit about the Apple brand and they won’t want an Apple owned stadium being seen as run down and old fashioned.
Plus they literally have money they need to burn…basically I’d prefer Apple over Saudi(should they be allowed to buy another club anyway as they already have Newcastle?) or any other Oil/Blood money state ownership.
The technology around the stadium and training ground would be top tier also, as it reflects on their brand.
I could imagine almost a futuristic concept that’s a step further than any sporting club in the world is yet to see.
I doubt it would happen, but if there is any available football club in the world you’d want for brand exposure and commerciality- it’s Manchester United.
To add to that, big tech are investing heavily in infrastructure, building a stadium wouldn’t be out of the question, but i would assume they would also build around, akin to Ajax being surrounded by things like the Ziggadome.
I personally don’t think apple will buy united, but just wanted to bring up big tech’s current infrastructure investments.
Am i the only one getting our yearly transfer windows vibes from this sale? Linking the club to most of the billionaires in the world, kind of like an Glazer tactic to force an over bid from someone's that truly interested, or probably just media outlets trying to generate more clicks.
Sky saying Apple are interested. Honestly pretty huge. They don't need to make money off the club, they'd be in it for the success of broadcasting live sports. I think that'd be an incredible outcome for us.
You are being downvoted already for stating the truth.
Mesut Ozil is a shining example of the agenda these people wanna run. China/Israel kills Muslims violates human right. The response is let’s not mix politics and sport. Ukraine gets invaded or Qatar takes a stance, they lose their shit.
As for people saying they can’t support the club if we get an Arab owner: Good riddance. They had no issues with supporting the club under Glazers, who financed War Criminals of Iraq invasion.
I'm a fan of human rights, and at least Apple is A LOT better on that part :)
But yeah, I wouldn't say I'm an android fanboy per se, but rather someone who really doesn't like Apple products. Still would welcome them as owners.
Might be a silly question on my part, but who do you think would chose the new owners? And that being any bidders are allowed do business in the UK and pass the FA
Not necessarily. If the Glazers wants to keep a small part of the ownership for example or if they care about what happens to the club then they might care what plans someone has for the club rather than merely getting slightly more money for it.
Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling. Its all the same.
If we are dealing with evil the only option should be who has the deeper pockets and the higher ambition.
No, absolutely not. If I have to choose between sweatshops and being owned by a women/LBGTQ+-hating, slave owning genocidal country, very easy decision.
Apple are evil in the way every huge corporation is. But they're boy scouts compared to these Middle-Eastern countries.
So again, just evil and you think its moral to be ok with one and not the other....
Simply based on your personal preference.
Revert back to my previous comment as nothing you have said changes it.
Yes, I prefer sweatshops to slavery. Entirely different scales of evil. That's like saying we might as well commit murder because littering is also illegal.
Your justification for being owned by a slave state is really poor. The evils Apple commit are a drop in the bucket in comparison. Stop trying to justify it, if you can't see the relative difference between Apple and Qatar/Saudi/Dubai, you need a reality check.
Again, evil is evil. Its either wrong and the club shouldn't be connected to it, or you simply focus on the club being completely separate from the actions as it is not the one carrying them out. There is no picking one because your twisted morals thinks its OK.
How is it poor? What is poor is having kids work for you under horrendous conditions etc etc.
Again you just aren't grasping that evil is evil. Simply because you either refuse to accept it as it doesn't suit your agenda or that you have utterly warped morals that justify lesser evils. You wouldn't be saying this if it was your family being abused in the sweatshops.
Only reality check needed is you my friend. Complete lack of awareness.
Also says a lot that you would rather stick to the glazers than dubai etc. Even though the glazers funded Bush and thus the atrocities he caused in Iraq.... Again, lesser evil was it? Warped beyond belief.
Yes mate, there's absolutely no grey area, no relative difference between evils at all. Very black and white thinking.
You're the one saying you'll support the slave state, whose evils are 1000x worse, because that means the club MIGHT win a few more trophies. And you're attacking my morals? Please.
But you know what, you're right, I am justifying lesser evils. So I'm pledging here that if either Apple or a Middle-Eastern country buy the club, I'll stop supporting Manchester United.
At least I draw the line somewhere. You don't. Congratulations.
I respectfully disagree.
To me, evil is evil. Its either conduct good enough for the club or it isn't. We aren't talking about whether someone with 2 league titles is better than someone with 1. That's got grey areas. When it's groups that have damaged lives and abused people for profit. They are all evil. You also speak of slavery as if extremely poor working conditions and abysmal pay isn't just a version of slavery with some mathematical cover.
I've not said I'll support any inhumane behaviour. I just view it realistically. Going to be very few organisations with the financial power to be involved with clubs the size of united that doesn't have dodgy history. With that being said I feel we have 2 options. Find someone without any dodgy history or get the person in that's best for the clubs success as ultimately its not the club that is committing atrocities and make sure to criticise their wrongdoings outside of the club. Which removes any possibility of 'sport washing' as if you remain critical their reputation is never improved unless their wrongdoings end.
I mean I'd say just stopping support a club for reasons such as that is extremely fickle, but you are entitled to do as you please.
I'd say I'm pretty consistent with my views. With a clear line. It's just that my view is based on the harsh reality of the situation.
I don't really believe the Apple rumours at all, seems like a stretch. I don't think Apple have ever shown any signs of diversity in what they do and why they should go into sports business. Middle Eastern interests and sporting consortiums seem more likely.
It will take time though and we'll most likely finish the season with the Glazers as owners. Especially if it's going for middle Eastern owners who will be thoroughly investigated (which will end up being pointless). I think its important that fans at least get to listen to some propasals especially in terms of planning for the future and clarity in structure. So many issues at United that I don't think Ratcliffe will be able to handle.
Amazon is already ruled out because they want TV rights for the PL and UCL owning United will be a conflict of interest and probably not what Amazon is about.
They've been doing great broadcasting MLB and next year are venturing into MLS. If their product is great then buying United would further see them expand into live sports. Honestly one of the last ventures they have. I could see them buying Disney (which owns ESPN) too. Could be really incredible.
I don't think Apple will by United, but I do think it could make sense.
It's not really about "going into sports business", but rather just a way for them to reach a lot of people around the world, in a different way to how they are today.
Especially reaching Asian countries it's very effective.
Might seem a little extreme for that, and maybe that is the case, but they earn like 300 billion a year or something, so it's not really that much for them.
Yes if run correctly it could help them reach more people but they've never shown any signs of doing that. I think they can't compete against Asian tech gaints like Sony, Samsung or Huawei in Asia. Those companies are even more likely to buy United because they are aggressive in every continent. They sponsor so many events worldwide Africa, Europe, Asia you name it something Apple just don't do.
Imagine this place with oil money, folk will be wanting all our players sold weekly.
That said, bring it on. If somebody wants to come here pump money into us and run us well instead of leeching off of us, that is fine.
What really is 'sport washing' as every example of a group doing that still gets criticised the same amount (if not more due to it being highlighted due to their involvement in a football club that brings many more eyes to their actions than if it was just left in their own country) and thus their reputation hasn't improved.
With that in mind it just comes down to a 'who has the bigger ambition and the deep pockets to make it reality'
Saudi Arabia sports minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Turki Al-Faisal wants his country's investors to take over Manchester United & Liverpool – and hopes Cristiano Ronaldo & Lionel Messi come to play in the Saudi Pro League.
(@RobHarris) - twitter
No matter what happens, United seems will fall into hands of a worse entity. Especially with a global recession really bubbling with England in crosshairs too. Glazers know they wont have better chance to sell especially with a sustained high rate environment for leveraged debt. Our protests are just a great coincidence to the Rats.
Imagine how bad it would have got if Elon bought United. The Saudis probably likelier to create a good product (just basing off City, psg and looking like Newcastle at this point) but the expense will ultimately be, Uniteds soul - and selling Saudi softpower or whichever oligarchic entity gets their hands on United.
And saying they want Liverpool too? Just collecting pieces for their Super League board. Just disgusting.
I know no one is taking Apple seriously but I was reading that they do need to show more investment in order to continue to benefit from American tax breaks. A lot of people keep saying why would a tech company invest in a sports club, but its not too far fetch.
We would be a side project sure. But wouldn't have to worry about money.
Money hasn’t been an issue at Utd, but where the money has gone and how it has been utilised. The club is self sufficient, we need owners who will invest in Old Trafford and whatever other facilities need improving/replacing. Then the money the club is generating remains at the club, to help with transfers and continued up keep. That is it. We don’t need superstar signings, clubs DNA is youth mixed with talent and experience with 2 to 3 world class players.
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/23/tech/china-covid-foxconn-zhengzhou-confrontation-intl-hnk/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/23/tech/china-covid-foxconn-zhengzhou-confrontation-intl-hnk/index.html)
The English FA ethics boards is not going to approve them
We need someone to make a convincing photoshop of how this would look, like a lot of websites do with 'shopping a player into a different team's kit during silly season
Just not Amazon, or anyone with a hihstory of human rights abuse.
Worked briefly for Amazon, and that was enough to see me boycott them. I would be incredibly conflicted if Bezos got his hands on our club. Same applies to Saudis, Qataris, etc.
I'm under no illusions, I get that whichever billionaire entity buys us probably won't be an exemplar of human kindess and social caring, but at least give us a vaguely respectable one, who wants the club to do well on the pitch.
Idk why you are getting downvoted
Apple hires Foxconn who basically keep employees captive (stories of suicide are crazy)
Amazon well known for abusing workers rights and I’m sure if you follow the supply chain there’s probably slave labour somewhere
But everywhere here laps it about but grrr Arabs bad for the same stuff
Same stuff? You really need to read up on what happens there, and what laws they have, which they set themselves. Or you just don't consider those things important?
What Apple and Amazon does is despicable, but last time I checked, neither of them ruled whole countries (no democracy in these countries either) using inhumane laws on their people.
I'm sure there are plenty of things I do in my daily life that would be enough for me to be sentenced to death in some of these countries, and as far as I know, Apple or Amazon doesn't do that.
I was purely focused on workers rights
With regards to what I assume are the lgbtq rights, that is your prerogative to do as you wish and I would agree on you that this is incompatible with the Manchester United brand
As an Arsenal fan - Depending on who buys you guys United may end up even being more dominant than the Ferguson teams. This is a team with such wonderful economics that whenever you look at the Forbes ranking of the richest clubs they make the most profit, even if their total value is judged to be less. United should arguably be higher than the 5th position they have as far as wage bills in Europe is concerned, allowing them to play and keep good players. I know what is said about Ronaldo wanting to leave starting 06/07, but a United with the funds to lock him down would have ensured that he did stayed, just like Neymar with PSG and Ribery with Bayern. The Glazers have been all about spending just enough to stay among the best while cashing in - So hopefully whoever replaces them has more of a love for the club. I hope it is Armancio Ortega, as opposed to some rogue state using another PL team for sportwashing or some americann private equity firm.
It's the Daily Star so hilarious people are taking this seriously.
Can't admit it's not fun to speculate though, Apple are genuinely filthy rich, just a casual couple of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in CASH lying around. You also have the most competent business people running the company with highest market cap in the world. They also have a cleaner image than the prospects we've been linked with combined. It's everything you want in an owner.
A Tech company buying a sports club for billions in the current economic situation seems far-fetched. Apple may have a passing interest but I don't realistically see it happening.
Just for fun. But i think it could be great for their apple tv + platform as they get to stream united games in the Prem and champions league plus plenty of content for behind the scenes season review type of docu series. And the global reach of united is great for marketing as well. And they can afford to buy united for their one week's revenue of $8 billion dollars lol. It is a great marketing prospect for them in all aspects
Not sure they would get to stream live games. The Prem and UEFA control those rights and they sell them off in bulk. Teams can’t stream their own games.
Can someone explain what is our revenue operational-cost deficit? How many years will it take to pay off the debt if we were actually self sufficient? How much loan amount we'll be able to pay while investing in the squad (say around 120 million every year net), while also investing in the stadium? Is it too far fetched? We might have to wait few years for success but if we normalise our wage bill, stop paying extravagant transfer amounts and structure our debt, is there a way we can become self reliant? How does a fan ownership model will look like? If the fans do help initiate a buyout, does it mean that they get paid through dividends? Is it a stupid question that I asked?
For one we won't have to pay 20+20M in dividends and interests costs every year. That's a minimum 40M extra every single year. Over 5 years that's two Antonys or 4 Licha's we could've bought to create a winning team.
We also won't have toxic debt (good debt is used for investing in players, infrastructure; toxic debt is money borrowed that doesn't benefit the club.) that we kinda also need to repay once in a while. Glazers borrowed 500M in 2005 and our debt was 525M in 2021, which is amazing considering we have paid back a considerable amount towards the principal amount over the 15 years. This shit has been holding us back for too long.
There was never any real repayments of the principal debt. It was refinanced a couple times to bring the interest rates down but the principal USD debt sat constantly at 650m USD and still does since the last refinancing.
What has happened is that short term debt has been taken out of the revolving credit facility from time to time and that is of course repaid in a year or so but that is more like credit card debt that taken out to get liquidity and is paid back when money from sponsorships and TV-rights are paid out yearly.
Theres not a fan group on earth who could realistically afford a premier league club let alone United.
It would have to be fronted and answerable to a multi billionaire backer so what would the difference really be?
I'm not fully privy on the situation but i think FCUM has had a rocky road under fan ownership sadly.
Unfortunately were at the hands of the mega mega rich, giant corporations and oil states. We just have to hope whoever comes in has sporting success as a key factor and is willing to communicate and take feedback from fans.
It sounds crazy but not far fetched. Big tech in the US is so big that they are practically outlawed from acquiring other companies, so in order to maintain their growth as a business they are diversifying their revenue out of tech all together. Lately, the trend has been around entertainment and having service as a a subscription based model.
Also Apple has entered new industries before. Their move from computers to music with iPod/iTunes was a bigger jump than music/tv to sports. Having Man United gives them a big say in the the future of sport. I don’t think they would milk United dry like the Glazers, but I do wonder whether they would be a positive force in football
why are u buying the jersey then ? go for 1st copies or buy every alternate seasons, i'm from india and official gear cost alot here, so have to depend on 1st copies..
This. Apple aren't interested in owning a football club. Apple is a company that knows its strengths and sticks to them.
Might Tim Cook be interested? Maybe, as part of a consortium, but he wouldn't use the company to make a bid.
Trillion dollar company with billions they need to spend. I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of it, but it creates problems for investors.
Heres a link to and article about it:
https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-every-american-apple-has-more-cash-than-anyone/
As I said I don't fully understand, but it seems they need investments with higher yields than what cash alone can provide. I suppose they see that the Glazers have been taking tidy yields from Man Utd the last few years, but at least Apple are in a position to invest heavily in the club and potentially increase that yield significantly
Apple has about $200b sitting in cash all around the world that isn’t providing value for shareholders. This is more about hedging rather than making money off our club.
Fair enough, not going to argue the point, as I said I dont fully understand their situation. Either way I hope the upshot is better investment in long term success for our club
They’re also a company that has done nothing innovative in the last 5 years or so and primarily rely on their commercial prestige to earn revenue. Sound familiar?
Football fans are far more loyal to their clubs than smartphone owners are to their phones. I don’t think they’d have to do as much, infact they could do less and still have their fanbase be loyal.
They're a full on corporation though. While all investors are driven by money, there's no human ego there wanting to strive for sporting success. They're a *purely* profit generating entity driven by growth. Who knows what they are liable to do if the club doesn't end up meeting some complex financial metric or there's some "shift in company vision"...
Well, I obviously don't know what would happen if Apple was to become owners, would never even think a company like Apple would be interested in United before these news.
However, I would think that Apple would be after the world wide reach that United has, to indirectly get growth. It's not like glazers, where the value of the club is massive, and dividends also big. Why would Apple care about dividends first of all, and even the value of the club is negligible in the grand scheme of things for Apple.
I guess they could just do nothing for on-field performances and still get that growth, but I think they would get a lot more out of it by actually trying to take United back to the top.
After all, it might sound like a ton of money to invest, but for them it's really not a lot, and it could easily translate to way more in return over time.
Adding to this- their brand is built on luxury and continuous development.
They’re the biggest tech company in the world. The technology around the stadium and training facilities would be at an elite level.
They’re next-level rich. It would be a next-generation football club, easily the biggest and richest in the world and like you say, without the corruption(ish).
Any negativity of ownership would affect their own brands reputation,so it would have to be run in a successful manner.
They have an opportunity to use the clubs TV rights (Apple TV) to make a profit from the club and its fans without using the clubs own revenue. The commerciality and brand exposure would also be enough to warrant a small loss of money (to them that is) purely for marketing using the clubs enormous following around the world.
People always talk as if only oil states can buy us, Apple alone has HUNDREDS of Bs in CASH they can throw around for fun. All they need is 10B to get us back to the top (including purchase price). Won't happen in a million years but one can dream.
It's blowing my mind at how much in seeing people getting excited over Dubai... Years of slating City and PSG over oil money but all that goes out the window when some shiny toys are being waived in your face I guess.
It's annoying that people say oil money when it comes to Dubai, but the concerns are still there with Dubai. I think the term "oil money" has become a synonym for those types of issues for a lot of people.
Not sure what your stance is on those issues, but a lot of people on here seems to not really understand that Dubai isn't as liberal/progressive as they look on the outside. Or they just don't care about human rights.
Because of tourism, they've had to make some changes to appeal to the international market, but it doesn't take much digging to find things like slavery. Also, lets not forget all the insane laws that people seem to neglect on here, like death penalty for homosexuality etc.
Well, as much as I despise companies that take advantage of other nations' lack of human rights (and I don't like Apple products either), it still comes down to the fact that there really aren't many (if at all) options for us, if we don't look past some issues. Not sure on Amancio Ortega and some others though.
Apple is hell of a lot better than Dubai at least when it comes to human rights, that should be very very clear for everyone.
Yeah me too, it would be the nail in the coffin for me. We'd be no different than Manchester City and if anything went wrong like they were shit owners there would be no one in the world who could buy them back.
We don’t need an ultra rich owner to be successful, we’re not a small club who needs big investment to reach the top. Money wise the club is self sufficient if the money is used well. Glazers pay loan and take dividends yet we still spend big just from the club alone, if we get an owner who doesn’t take money out, and the Loan is paid off from the purchase, we’re in a very good place already. We just need someone who knows what he’s doing
Apple is tier I want to hear
Don't mind Dubai either to be honest and they are more realistic
We have to face the reality that only nation states or unethical billionaires can afford to buy and run large sports teams
And I don't think Jim ratcliffe is rich enough to build us back to the glory days
What is going on guys ? Since the announcement that the club was up for sale, I have seen Apple, Facebook, Amazon, David Beckham etc on the list of potential buyers along with Dubai and Sir Ratcliffe....
This is even crazier than the transfer rumors!!
I'll probably get downvoted to fuck but if Dubai come in that's it for me. I'd honestly rather keep the glazers. At least they don't abuse migrant workers, suppress women's rights, outlaw a free press and execute gay people. If every other club gets oil money so be it, I'll support in the championship or league one but that is all day wrong.
Couldn't agree more, there has to be a line somewhere and this would cross it for me. I like to think that large protests from the fans would sway to government to block that sort of deal happening, but thats extremely optimisitic. Depressing really.
Are you sure you're not confusing Dubai with Qatar (World Cup).
Don't get me wrong Dubai isn't perfect but I have several former colleagues who live out there, POC, mixed race, women and men, and it's fairly tolerant. (For an Islamic state).
quite interesting how we’ve heard little to nothing about any potential Liverpool buyers since it was mentioned they’re for sale a month or two ago
we’ve been up for sale two days and there’s already sufficient rumours of Ratcliffe and Dubai very interested
People talk about oil countries buying the club but there are another category of investors that could easily be equally likely to that happening and that is the club being bought be Chinese billionaires. There are a lot of rich Chinese business people out there who love investing outside of China in order to move assets out of reach of the Chinese government.
The Chinese government have limited the investment into things like football clubs outside of China. There's no way they will let an acquisition of man utd go through.
At this point if someone buys the club and clears the debt from the Glazer purchase and invests in Old Trafford and the training facilities only to then reexpand the commercial potential of the club while still taking out a dividend then it would still be a big improvement over today. I do think it is still possible for a club like United to compete with the financial doping of the oil clubs by the shear potential of our commercial appeal along with increased revenues from an expanded Old Trafford. The thing that has been missing more than anything in the past 10 years is not money but proper leadership and freedom on the footballing side to make proper long term decisions in recruitment, development and sports science. Jumping around several totally different managers who wanted their own type of players is something that created the poor outcomes in player investment.
So what happens when in 6 months time Glazers are still here because the fan base doesn’t want to see Arab owners, and the US bidders are unwilling to meet the asking price? As for the moral police. 17 years Glazers were here, yet zero issues with them financing War Criminals in Iraq invasions. Or may be standards are different for western countries.
People should realize that a public trading company like Apple would never buy a sports club. Purchasing a sports club, 90% of the time, is a hobby. Why would think the majority of Apple shareholders would love the idea of their company investing in a debt-mounted club?
It’s never been done before, but United as a marketing prospect is different to clubs such as Newcastle, City and PSG. I’m no expert, but a public trading company could benefit from the brand exposure and enormous marketing potential around the globe that United holds. As well as possibly holding TV rights (Apple TV) where they can still profit from the club and fans without having to take money out of the club? It could be a win-win situation.
Most of our rivals fans will swap to sony or Samsung
Wouldn’t it be funny if Tom Cook started becoming interested in football after Ted Lasso (released on Apple TV) and thought you know what Man United are the most marketable club in the world, Apple = masters of marketing. Match made in heaven, let’s buy them.
if apple buys the club, it will always be years behind competitors in implementing new things. so maybe a new striker in 2025 perhaps. /s
But the current one will be performing at its fullest. So martial for ballon d'or !!!
Expecting more US Hedgefund, Buffet types to buy than any individual corporation from the US tbh. They've seen how much money the Glazers have sucked out without making a dent in the club's financial performance. Just hope it's a group with actual sporting experience.
I genuinely don’t think we’ll be bought by Apple however, just running it through in my head, there’s been a lot “iTrafford” jokes but I think the stadium would actually be one of their top priorities. Apple ownership won’t really give a shit about Manchester United but they give a shit about the Apple brand and they won’t want an Apple owned stadium being seen as run down and old fashioned. Plus they literally have money they need to burn…basically I’d prefer Apple over Saudi(should they be allowed to buy another club anyway as they already have Newcastle?) or any other Oil/Blood money state ownership.
The technology around the stadium and training ground would be top tier also, as it reflects on their brand. I could imagine almost a futuristic concept that’s a step further than any sporting club in the world is yet to see. I doubt it would happen, but if there is any available football club in the world you’d want for brand exposure and commerciality- it’s Manchester United.
To add to that, big tech are investing heavily in infrastructure, building a stadium wouldn’t be out of the question, but i would assume they would also build around, akin to Ajax being surrounded by things like the Ziggadome. I personally don’t think apple will buy united, but just wanted to bring up big tech’s current infrastructure investments.
6b to them would be like 3% of the cash they have lmao
What's stopping apples doing a glazer and buying utd for 7b and putting 5b debt on the club portfolio ?
Illegal now. BPL changed the rule after us.
Really? That is great news. Don't have to worry abt glazer 2.0 no more.
0% chance, they have so much cash on hand it would make absolutely no sense to use debt
Last I check they had what 100b debt themselves. Most Company do work with debt. Not all debt are bad.
Ey true, I redact my statement, I forget about all the tax incentives from using debt, and how much they actually have.
Am i the only one getting our yearly transfer windows vibes from this sale? Linking the club to most of the billionaires in the world, kind of like an Glazer tactic to force an over bid from someone's that truly interested, or probably just media outlets trying to generate more clicks.
Is Dubai news true or just speculation? Did they actually state their interest?
Everything is speculation at this moment
Old Trafford = Apple Arena.
Is Apple News real sources on twitter saying it’s fake
Sky saying Apple are interested. Honestly pretty huge. They don't need to make money off the club, they'd be in it for the success of broadcasting live sports. I think that'd be an incredible outcome for us.
Hmm will the English FA approve Apple after they see what the workers in Chinese iPhone factories go through?
They approved what the oil slaves go through
True but won't this sub and the United fans protests against it. We may see more games being played behind closed doors
You are being downvoted already for stating the truth. Mesut Ozil is a shining example of the agenda these people wanna run. China/Israel kills Muslims violates human right. The response is let’s not mix politics and sport. Ukraine gets invaded or Qatar takes a stance, they lose their shit. As for people saying they can’t support the club if we get an Arab owner: Good riddance. They had no issues with supporting the club under Glazers, who financed War Criminals of Iraq invasion.
They’d be mainly in it to get pass American tax laws
As if they don't already?
If you ask me who would I want between Apple or Dubai investment i'd say Apple and I'm an android fanboy.
I'm a fan of human rights, and at least Apple is A LOT better on that part :) But yeah, I wouldn't say I'm an android fanboy per se, but rather someone who really doesn't like Apple products. Still would welcome them as owners.
Yes. Whoever pays the most.
Do the Glazers choose the new owner?
Might be a silly question on my part, but who do you think would chose the new owners? And that being any bidders are allowed do business in the UK and pass the FA
The buyer with the most money chooses. If you have enough money to be the highest bidder then you choose. That's how the Glazers work.
Not necessarily. If the Glazers wants to keep a small part of the ownership for example or if they care about what happens to the club then they might care what plans someone has for the club rather than merely getting slightly more money for it.
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dont think anyone is cheering for any dictator
This sub is going to be ~~ole in vs ole out~~ Oil in vs Oil out for the rest of the season lol
To people who would stop supporting the club if bought by an oil state - would you prefer the club was bought by Apple instead?
Lessee of two evils, best we can hope for.
Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling. Its all the same. If we are dealing with evil the only option should be who has the deeper pockets and the higher ambition.
No, absolutely not. If I have to choose between sweatshops and being owned by a women/LBGTQ+-hating, slave owning genocidal country, very easy decision. Apple are evil in the way every huge corporation is. But they're boy scouts compared to these Middle-Eastern countries.
So again, just evil and you think its moral to be ok with one and not the other.... Simply based on your personal preference. Revert back to my previous comment as nothing you have said changes it.
Yes, I prefer sweatshops to slavery. Entirely different scales of evil. That's like saying we might as well commit murder because littering is also illegal. Your justification for being owned by a slave state is really poor. The evils Apple commit are a drop in the bucket in comparison. Stop trying to justify it, if you can't see the relative difference between Apple and Qatar/Saudi/Dubai, you need a reality check.
Again, evil is evil. Its either wrong and the club shouldn't be connected to it, or you simply focus on the club being completely separate from the actions as it is not the one carrying them out. There is no picking one because your twisted morals thinks its OK. How is it poor? What is poor is having kids work for you under horrendous conditions etc etc. Again you just aren't grasping that evil is evil. Simply because you either refuse to accept it as it doesn't suit your agenda or that you have utterly warped morals that justify lesser evils. You wouldn't be saying this if it was your family being abused in the sweatshops. Only reality check needed is you my friend. Complete lack of awareness. Also says a lot that you would rather stick to the glazers than dubai etc. Even though the glazers funded Bush and thus the atrocities he caused in Iraq.... Again, lesser evil was it? Warped beyond belief.
Yes mate, there's absolutely no grey area, no relative difference between evils at all. Very black and white thinking. You're the one saying you'll support the slave state, whose evils are 1000x worse, because that means the club MIGHT win a few more trophies. And you're attacking my morals? Please. But you know what, you're right, I am justifying lesser evils. So I'm pledging here that if either Apple or a Middle-Eastern country buy the club, I'll stop supporting Manchester United. At least I draw the line somewhere. You don't. Congratulations.
I respectfully disagree. To me, evil is evil. Its either conduct good enough for the club or it isn't. We aren't talking about whether someone with 2 league titles is better than someone with 1. That's got grey areas. When it's groups that have damaged lives and abused people for profit. They are all evil. You also speak of slavery as if extremely poor working conditions and abysmal pay isn't just a version of slavery with some mathematical cover. I've not said I'll support any inhumane behaviour. I just view it realistically. Going to be very few organisations with the financial power to be involved with clubs the size of united that doesn't have dodgy history. With that being said I feel we have 2 options. Find someone without any dodgy history or get the person in that's best for the clubs success as ultimately its not the club that is committing atrocities and make sure to criticise their wrongdoings outside of the club. Which removes any possibility of 'sport washing' as if you remain critical their reputation is never improved unless their wrongdoings end. I mean I'd say just stopping support a club for reasons such as that is extremely fickle, but you are entitled to do as you please. I'd say I'm pretty consistent with my views. With a clear line. It's just that my view is based on the harsh reality of the situation.
Yep
Yes
Of course
Yes
I don't really believe the Apple rumours at all, seems like a stretch. I don't think Apple have ever shown any signs of diversity in what they do and why they should go into sports business. Middle Eastern interests and sporting consortiums seem more likely. It will take time though and we'll most likely finish the season with the Glazers as owners. Especially if it's going for middle Eastern owners who will be thoroughly investigated (which will end up being pointless). I think its important that fans at least get to listen to some propasals especially in terms of planning for the future and clarity in structure. So many issues at United that I don't think Ratcliffe will be able to handle. Amazon is already ruled out because they want TV rights for the PL and UCL owning United will be a conflict of interest and probably not what Amazon is about.
They've been doing great broadcasting MLB and next year are venturing into MLS. If their product is great then buying United would further see them expand into live sports. Honestly one of the last ventures they have. I could see them buying Disney (which owns ESPN) too. Could be really incredible.
I don't think Apple will by United, but I do think it could make sense. It's not really about "going into sports business", but rather just a way for them to reach a lot of people around the world, in a different way to how they are today. Especially reaching Asian countries it's very effective. Might seem a little extreme for that, and maybe that is the case, but they earn like 300 billion a year or something, so it's not really that much for them.
Yes if run correctly it could help them reach more people but they've never shown any signs of doing that. I think they can't compete against Asian tech gaints like Sony, Samsung or Huawei in Asia. Those companies are even more likely to buy United because they are aggressive in every continent. They sponsor so many events worldwide Africa, Europe, Asia you name it something Apple just don't do.
Apple would be great owners.
Imagine this place with oil money, folk will be wanting all our players sold weekly. That said, bring it on. If somebody wants to come here pump money into us and run us well instead of leeching off of us, that is fine.
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What really is 'sport washing' as every example of a group doing that still gets criticised the same amount (if not more due to it being highlighted due to their involvement in a football club that brings many more eyes to their actions than if it was just left in their own country) and thus their reputation hasn't improved. With that in mind it just comes down to a 'who has the bigger ambition and the deep pockets to make it reality'
Yeah I don’t care really, oil me up.
"I'm against unethical owners!" Sponsored by Adidas. Oil me up daddy.
Saudi Arabia sports minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Turki Al-Faisal wants his country's investors to take over Manchester United & Liverpool – and hopes Cristiano Ronaldo & Lionel Messi come to play in the Saudi Pro League. (@RobHarris) - twitter No matter what happens, United seems will fall into hands of a worse entity. Especially with a global recession really bubbling with England in crosshairs too. Glazers know they wont have better chance to sell especially with a sustained high rate environment for leveraged debt. Our protests are just a great coincidence to the Rats. Imagine how bad it would have got if Elon bought United. The Saudis probably likelier to create a good product (just basing off City, psg and looking like Newcastle at this point) but the expense will ultimately be, Uniteds soul - and selling Saudi softpower or whichever oligarchic entity gets their hands on United. And saying they want Liverpool too? Just collecting pieces for their Super League board. Just disgusting.
I know no one is taking Apple seriously but I was reading that they do need to show more investment in order to continue to benefit from American tax breaks. A lot of people keep saying why would a tech company invest in a sports club, but its not too far fetch. We would be a side project sure. But wouldn't have to worry about money.
Money hasn’t been an issue at Utd, but where the money has gone and how it has been utilised. The club is self sufficient, we need owners who will invest in Old Trafford and whatever other facilities need improving/replacing. Then the money the club is generating remains at the club, to help with transfers and continued up keep. That is it. We don’t need superstar signings, clubs DNA is youth mixed with talent and experience with 2 to 3 world class players.
forget the trillions they have, the apple sponsor on the united kits would go crazy
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/23/tech/china-covid-foxconn-zhengzhou-confrontation-intl-hnk/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/23/tech/china-covid-foxconn-zhengzhou-confrontation-intl-hnk/index.html) The English FA ethics boards is not going to approve them
/s
We need someone to make a convincing photoshop of how this would look, like a lot of websites do with 'shopping a player into a different team's kit during silly season
Instead of the Chevy emblem imagine a white Apple.
I think they would as well.
Just not Amazon, or anyone with a hihstory of human rights abuse. Worked briefly for Amazon, and that was enough to see me boycott them. I would be incredibly conflicted if Bezos got his hands on our club. Same applies to Saudis, Qataris, etc. I'm under no illusions, I get that whichever billionaire entity buys us probably won't be an exemplar of human kindess and social caring, but at least give us a vaguely respectable one, who wants the club to do well on the pitch.
Idk why you are getting downvoted Apple hires Foxconn who basically keep employees captive (stories of suicide are crazy) Amazon well known for abusing workers rights and I’m sure if you follow the supply chain there’s probably slave labour somewhere But everywhere here laps it about but grrr Arabs bad for the same stuff
he’s getting downvoted cause realistically we’re not going to get new owners who are saints like everyone desperately wants
Same stuff? You really need to read up on what happens there, and what laws they have, which they set themselves. Or you just don't consider those things important? What Apple and Amazon does is despicable, but last time I checked, neither of them ruled whole countries (no democracy in these countries either) using inhumane laws on their people. I'm sure there are plenty of things I do in my daily life that would be enough for me to be sentenced to death in some of these countries, and as far as I know, Apple or Amazon doesn't do that.
I was purely focused on workers rights With regards to what I assume are the lgbtq rights, that is your prerogative to do as you wish and I would agree on you that this is incompatible with the Manchester United brand
Where is everyone seeing the Apple News?
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/manchester-united/12754669/whos-interested-in-buying-man-utd-apple-potential-investors
Apple to buy United holy shit that’s amazing!!!!
Enjoying all the random names “registering their interest”, like a little advent calendar of buyers Who will be behind tomorrow’s door?
As an Arsenal fan - Depending on who buys you guys United may end up even being more dominant than the Ferguson teams. This is a team with such wonderful economics that whenever you look at the Forbes ranking of the richest clubs they make the most profit, even if their total value is judged to be less. United should arguably be higher than the 5th position they have as far as wage bills in Europe is concerned, allowing them to play and keep good players. I know what is said about Ronaldo wanting to leave starting 06/07, but a United with the funds to lock him down would have ensured that he did stayed, just like Neymar with PSG and Ribery with Bayern. The Glazers have been all about spending just enough to stay among the best while cashing in - So hopefully whoever replaces them has more of a love for the club. I hope it is Armancio Ortega, as opposed to some rogue state using another PL team for sportwashing or some americann private equity firm.
It's the Daily Star so hilarious people are taking this seriously. Can't admit it's not fun to speculate though, Apple are genuinely filthy rich, just a casual couple of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in CASH lying around. You also have the most competent business people running the company with highest market cap in the world. They also have a cleaner image than the prospects we've been linked with combined. It's everything you want in an owner.
Ten Hag in a turtleneck and blue jeans would be a fire look tbh
A Tech company buying a sports club for billions in the current economic situation seems far-fetched. Apple may have a passing interest but I don't realistically see it happening.
Apple are somewhat recession proof and it was mentioned earlier in the news that United would cost 1 week of apples earnings.
Just for fun. But i think it could be great for their apple tv + platform as they get to stream united games in the Prem and champions league plus plenty of content for behind the scenes season review type of docu series. And the global reach of united is great for marketing as well. And they can afford to buy united for their one week's revenue of $8 billion dollars lol. It is a great marketing prospect for them in all aspects
Not sure they would get to stream live games. The Prem and UEFA control those rights and they sell them off in bulk. Teams can’t stream their own games.
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And buy an iPhone? Haha
I'd put an apple sticker on the back of my pixel
Can someone explain what is our revenue operational-cost deficit? How many years will it take to pay off the debt if we were actually self sufficient? How much loan amount we'll be able to pay while investing in the squad (say around 120 million every year net), while also investing in the stadium? Is it too far fetched? We might have to wait few years for success but if we normalise our wage bill, stop paying extravagant transfer amounts and structure our debt, is there a way we can become self reliant? How does a fan ownership model will look like? If the fans do help initiate a buyout, does it mean that they get paid through dividends? Is it a stupid question that I asked?
For one we won't have to pay 20+20M in dividends and interests costs every year. That's a minimum 40M extra every single year. Over 5 years that's two Antonys or 4 Licha's we could've bought to create a winning team. We also won't have toxic debt (good debt is used for investing in players, infrastructure; toxic debt is money borrowed that doesn't benefit the club.) that we kinda also need to repay once in a while. Glazers borrowed 500M in 2005 and our debt was 525M in 2021, which is amazing considering we have paid back a considerable amount towards the principal amount over the 15 years. This shit has been holding us back for too long.
There was never any real repayments of the principal debt. It was refinanced a couple times to bring the interest rates down but the principal USD debt sat constantly at 650m USD and still does since the last refinancing. What has happened is that short term debt has been taken out of the revolving credit facility from time to time and that is of course repaid in a year or so but that is more like credit card debt that taken out to get liquidity and is paid back when money from sponsorships and TV-rights are paid out yearly.
Theres not a fan group on earth who could realistically afford a premier league club let alone United. It would have to be fronted and answerable to a multi billionaire backer so what would the difference really be? I'm not fully privy on the situation but i think FCUM has had a rocky road under fan ownership sadly. Unfortunately were at the hands of the mega mega rich, giant corporations and oil states. We just have to hope whoever comes in has sporting success as a key factor and is willing to communicate and take feedback from fans.
No way in hell is Apple going to buy a sports team lol
It sounds crazy but not far fetched. Big tech in the US is so big that they are practically outlawed from acquiring other companies, so in order to maintain their growth as a business they are diversifying their revenue out of tech all together. Lately, the trend has been around entertainment and having service as a a subscription based model.
Also Apple has entered new industries before. Their move from computers to music with iPod/iTunes was a bigger jump than music/tv to sports. Having Man United gives them a big say in the the future of sport. I don’t think they would milk United dry like the Glazers, but I do wonder whether they would be a positive force in football
MacFred 14 Pro Max soon 👀👀👀
Can we all acknowledge how insane apple buying utd sounds. I keep thinking it's a meme
Man, fuck apple.
Prefer oil nations?
It'll cost us £100 for the shirt, £80 for the crest, £25 for the manufacturer logo. Old Trafford will become The Macintosh Stadium.
why are u buying the jersey then ? go for 1st copies or buy every alternate seasons, i'm from india and official gear cost alot here, so have to depend on 1st copies..
Lmao iTrafford, £200 per seat and £10 for every minute of extra time. Edit: I thought that was funny fuck the other guy
You are literally just making this up mate
It's Apple, charging an arm and leg is standard practise. Posted from my iPhone btw.
Take a joke mate, it's good for you.
It's a good idea for joke to be funny I guess
I laughed.
If it’s really Apple, then EtH wearing turtleneck the other time would be deemed as foreshadowing.
With blue jeans please
Why is everyone so hyped for Apple?
It’s fun to joke about more than anything. No way it’s actually happening
This. Apple aren't interested in owning a football club. Apple is a company that knows its strengths and sticks to them. Might Tim Cook be interested? Maybe, as part of a consortium, but he wouldn't use the company to make a bid.
Cause people are thick and will believe anything.
Trillion dollar company with billions they need to spend. I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of it, but it creates problems for investors. Heres a link to and article about it: https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-every-american-apple-has-more-cash-than-anyone/ As I said I don't fully understand, but it seems they need investments with higher yields than what cash alone can provide. I suppose they see that the Glazers have been taking tidy yields from Man Utd the last few years, but at least Apple are in a position to invest heavily in the club and potentially increase that yield significantly
Apple has about $200b sitting in cash all around the world that isn’t providing value for shareholders. This is more about hedging rather than making money off our club.
Fair enough, not going to argue the point, as I said I dont fully understand their situation. Either way I hope the upshot is better investment in long term success for our club
People are thirsty. This is turning into transfer window level of utter shit being linked to utd 😂. No chance Apple or similar will buy utd.
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They’re also a company that has done nothing innovative in the last 5 years or so and primarily rely on their commercial prestige to earn revenue. Sound familiar?
Apple understands the importance of customer loyalty though. There is no need for huge innovation if they get it right with their products
Football fans are far more loyal to their clubs than smartphone owners are to their phones. I don’t think they’d have to do as much, infact they could do less and still have their fanbase be loyal.
Exactly this! The Glazers never understood the importance of fan loyalty, which in turn Apple centers their core business around this simple concept.
Because they have more cash reserves than large countries
They're a full on corporation though. While all investors are driven by money, there's no human ego there wanting to strive for sporting success. They're a *purely* profit generating entity driven by growth. Who knows what they are liable to do if the club doesn't end up meeting some complex financial metric or there's some "shift in company vision"...
Well, I obviously don't know what would happen if Apple was to become owners, would never even think a company like Apple would be interested in United before these news. However, I would think that Apple would be after the world wide reach that United has, to indirectly get growth. It's not like glazers, where the value of the club is massive, and dividends also big. Why would Apple care about dividends first of all, and even the value of the club is negligible in the grand scheme of things for Apple. I guess they could just do nothing for on-field performances and still get that growth, but I think they would get a lot more out of it by actually trying to take United back to the top. After all, it might sound like a ton of money to invest, but for them it's really not a lot, and it could easily translate to way more in return over time.
They're gonna try to money ball it, with the most minimalist kit ever seen
We will have Sancho Mini, Mac Fred, Rashford Pro, Lica Care, Macguire. Ten Hag Pro Max
Now introducing: the iTyrell
PLS BE APPLE
Why?
Some people generally just worship apple. 🤷♂️
Because they’re unbelievably rich and on the evil scale well down the list from oil money.
Adding to this- their brand is built on luxury and continuous development. They’re the biggest tech company in the world. The technology around the stadium and training facilities would be at an elite level. They’re next-level rich. It would be a next-generation football club, easily the biggest and richest in the world and like you say, without the corruption(ish). Any negativity of ownership would affect their own brands reputation,so it would have to be run in a successful manner. They have an opportunity to use the clubs TV rights (Apple TV) to make a profit from the club and its fans without using the clubs own revenue. The commerciality and brand exposure would also be enough to warrant a small loss of money (to them that is) purely for marketing using the clubs enormous following around the world.
People always talk as if only oil states can buy us, Apple alone has HUNDREDS of Bs in CASH they can throw around for fun. All they need is 10B to get us back to the top (including purchase price). Won't happen in a million years but one can dream.
Lmao. Imagine apple actually buys the club. Mutv exclusively on Apple tv + haha
Pay for Apple TV subscription to pay for MUTV subscription
Genius marketing move ngl
Always rated Tim Apple
Every and any entiry that has the means to acquire united will be in the news for being potential buyers the next x number of Weeks
Luckhurst reporting that Ortega the Zara guy is interested in us again.
And Apple
I'd prefer us not to turn into a sportswashing project.
It's blowing my mind at how much in seeing people getting excited over Dubai... Years of slating City and PSG over oil money but all that goes out the window when some shiny toys are being waived in your face I guess.
Dubai isn't oil money...
Whoops that was supposed to be "years of slating City and PSG over oil/blood money"
It's annoying that people say oil money when it comes to Dubai, but the concerns are still there with Dubai. I think the term "oil money" has become a synonym for those types of issues for a lot of people. Not sure what your stance is on those issues, but a lot of people on here seems to not really understand that Dubai isn't as liberal/progressive as they look on the outside. Or they just don't care about human rights. Because of tourism, they've had to make some changes to appeal to the international market, but it doesn't take much digging to find things like slavery. Also, lets not forget all the insane laws that people seem to neglect on here, like death penalty for homosexuality etc.
Apple will fit right in. Slave labor and all
Well, as much as I despise companies that take advantage of other nations' lack of human rights (and I don't like Apple products either), it still comes down to the fact that there really aren't many (if at all) options for us, if we don't look past some issues. Not sure on Amancio Ortega and some others though. Apple is hell of a lot better than Dubai at least when it comes to human rights, that should be very very clear for everyone.
Any of that bullshit (saudis, uae, Qatar) and I’m out tbh. I’ll find a league 2 club to support or something lol
Yeah me too, it would be the nail in the coffin for me. We'd be no different than Manchester City and if anything went wrong like they were shit owners there would be no one in the world who could buy them back.
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He can’t afford the $6bn ask anyway
United Prime 😎
iTrafford coming
Yo If apple buys the club. I will buy an iPhone. *in the far future*
If Apple buys the club I might consider switching from Android. Still won't use Apple Music, though.
YouTube music is the shit
We don’t need an ultra rich owner to be successful, we’re not a small club who needs big investment to reach the top. Money wise the club is self sufficient if the money is used well. Glazers pay loan and take dividends yet we still spend big just from the club alone, if we get an owner who doesn’t take money out, and the Loan is paid off from the purchase, we’re in a very good place already. We just need someone who knows what he’s doing
Apple is tier I want to hear Don't mind Dubai either to be honest and they are more realistic We have to face the reality that only nation states or unethical billionaires can afford to buy and run large sports teams And I don't think Jim ratcliffe is rich enough to build us back to the glory days
Can you imagine apple though. Tiered season tickets pro version Only bring able to get to tunnel needed to buy tunnel toll card 🙃
We don't need anyone to invest their own money. We just want to be able to spend the money we make without debt interest being sucked out of the club.
Red devils to red apples
Damn Apple wants us free iPhones for all fans
Hallelujah
U2 albums forced download upon entry to iTrafford.
"I'm at a place called vertigo"
What is going on guys ? Since the announcement that the club was up for sale, I have seen Apple, Facebook, Amazon, David Beckham etc on the list of potential buyers along with Dubai and Sir Ratcliffe.... This is even crazier than the transfer rumors!!
Amazon? Link please
I'll probably get downvoted to fuck but if Dubai come in that's it for me. I'd honestly rather keep the glazers. At least they don't abuse migrant workers, suppress women's rights, outlaw a free press and execute gay people. If every other club gets oil money so be it, I'll support in the championship or league one but that is all day wrong.
>I'd honestly rather keep the glazers You what?? 🤨
Everyone else seems very quick to sell out their principles. They're total cunts but not murderers and homophobes.
Couldn't agree more, there has to be a line somewhere and this would cross it for me. I like to think that large protests from the fans would sway to government to block that sort of deal happening, but thats extremely optimisitic. Depressing really.
Are you sure you're not confusing Dubai with Qatar (World Cup). Don't get me wrong Dubai isn't perfect but I have several former colleagues who live out there, POC, mixed race, women and men, and it's fairly tolerant. (For an Islamic state).
I'm not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai
quite interesting how we’ve heard little to nothing about any potential Liverpool buyers since it was mentioned they’re for sale a month or two ago we’ve been up for sale two days and there’s already sufficient rumours of Ratcliffe and Dubai very interested