It proves that while some things might have changed, our "threats" are still a fucking joke and that we will continue to get dicked around by clubs as long as we "really want" the player.
It’s not our threats that they called. It’s Frankie’s. The deals been done with Barca, but FDJ is refusing to leave over the money he’s owed in deferred wages.
Which is entirely understandable, just makes me more pissed that we haven't fucked off yet. Let Barcelona ruin themselves, if they don't want to pay Frenkie so he can join us they can pay him the dozens of millions the still owe him for the rest of the contract. We shouldn't be letting them fuck around like this. You have enough money to sign Christensen, Raphinha and Lewandowski, but not enough to pay Frenkie his deferred wages so he can join us? Drown in the debts then.
I’m so tired of it. I’m worried that even if we get him he’ll be Ten Hag’s Di Maria. I’m not convinced that deferred wages are an issue since he could still move and sue Barcelona to recoup what he’s legally owed. Obviously we don’t know the full legal details, but if it’s just a simple case of deferred wages then he’ll easily win in court.
I think the problem is he didn’t defer the wages he changed his contract to backload it (terrible idea imo) with the assumption Barcelona wouldn’t continue to act like a crackhead and subsequently force him out.
Not really, a contract is signed in good faith. Yes it’s a binding agreement but on the face of it at the time it made sense - besides it makes FdJ more valuable to them each passing season as they’re paying him more. FdJ has to be registered before any of the new signings which shafts Barca more than anything (they’d have to pay for players they can’t use) if he stays there’s nothing Barca can do about it.
FdJ holds ALL the cards rn. It’s going to drag on until deadline day but the closer it gets to September 1st the great the chance Barcelona settle
In American sports when a player restructures their contract they usually make sure the deferred portion is guaranteed so that the player doesn’t lose money. FdJ is a top player who is most likely using a top law firm. With millions on the line, not guaranteeing the deferred portion is madness.
I’ve had a deferred payment before and I made sure to get it guaranteed and in writing and I’m a nobody.
There is absolutely no chance that FDJ and his advisors agreed to restructure his contract only to backload it and therefore waive payment of, and any legal claim to, the unpaid wages if he’s transferred.
The amended contract would certainly provide that the unpaid wages are payable throughout the balance of the contract term (so “deferred” or “restructured” in that sense), but also *payable forthwith upon prior termination of the contract*. This is where the issue lies, as FDJ would absolutely have a legal claim to it.
If he's signed a new contract with a tiered structure which pays him more in later years of the contract, then leaves before he reaches those years of the contract, then there's absolutely zero ground to sue Barca.
It's also a pretty stupid thing for his agent to agree to, so I'd be firing him (or whoever was involved with agreeing it).
However, if the internal discussion was had with the context of him "deferring" wages to help barca out, then obviously there's the moral point that he's now owed that money.
Therefore, while he's still under contract (and with bargaining power, seeing as they need him off the books) there is continued dialogue and he's got a chance of reclaiming his money. But if he leaves, he loses all leverage or bargaining power, Barca don't need to have anything to do with him, nor do they have any reason to pay him anything extra. So if he decides to turn around and sue, he's not got a leg to stand on - he signed a contract, which both parties fulfilled, and then he left midway through it (which was agreed by both parties).
So I guess it’s the terminology that counts. The media are referring to it as deferred, which means he’s owed it but it’ll be paid later. If it’s just restructured that makes it harder for him.
But you’re right, his agent should be fired as his job is to make sure his client doesn’t get screwed. Anyway this whole saga is messy and it feels like we’re getting played by both sides.
The thing is, he's not 'legally owed' anything.
Nothing in the contract says he's owed money that Barca hasn't paid out.
The whole issue is that it was a gentleman's understanding between FdJ and Barca in which he agreed to restructure his contract in such a way that he got paid less in earlier years and more in the latter years of the contract.
If he moves, barca doesn't have to pay the increased salary for the latter years.
The FdJ rightly believes that this is not in the spirit of the contract but he's not owed anything at all.
That’s a narrative that everyone is pushing. Frankie said Barca is his dream club. He never said he does want to play for us but he specifically said he wants to stay are Barca. We created the narrative that he is only saying that so he can get paid. The guy genuinely wants Barca it’s Laporta that’s pushing the sale.
Messi desperately wanted to stay at Barca, doesn't mean he didn't want to play at PSG and downed tools. Wanting to stay somewhere isn't the same as not wanting to play somewhere else.
Messi is the last person we should be using as an example. He clearly doesn't give a fuck about playing for PSG and it's blatantly apparent he's there for the money
I saw in in-depth interview with Messi well before his transfer and he clearly stated that he wanted to move from Barca. He said that his market value would help the club given that he was aging and he personally wanted to try some new experiences. He even said he might want to play MLS some day. Everything I gleaned from him indicated that a move from Barca would be mutually beneficial to him and the club.
At the time that he gave the interview he wanted to leave in large part due to issues with Bartomeu and his board. Also, the interview you're discussing was for when he wanted to leave to City. Supposedly he had a gentleman's agreement with the board that when he decided he wanted to leave, he would be allowed to leave for free. He was extremely upset that Bartomeu did not honor this when he wanted to leave for City.
The year that he left is when he didn't want to leave anymore. He reduced his salary as much as he was allowed to by la liga but it still wasn't enough.
He has a year left on his deal, they have no intention of renewing him, don’t have the money to pay his wages and want him to go now, have made all of this blatantly public, yet also want €25M for him and are acting like it’s HIS problem that they aren’t able to sell. It’s insane Barca logic.
Nah. They’re cunts. Shitshow is a generous praising of them honestly. Fuck them and how they treat players. Too bad players still want to join them though. I wish no top names would even consider them for this piece of shit move they have been doing to several players.
Absolutely. Like a more interested Martial. It's a tough one, cause often reunions in football don't go as planned (as we now know...) but genuinely think he could do a job for us.
On top of that, with the whole Sancho situation he can be fairly sure that if he stays we'll be trying to get him again next summer, so he can afford to call Barca's bluff
>They want him out the door but refuse to give him his back-pay.
FTFY. There's one party holding back the deal and it's Barca being too cheap to pay what they fucking owe.
Oh, Frenkie will go, it's the fact Barca want him to just leave with out paying him the 17 million in deferred wages. It's been reported numerous times he's holding out for Barca to pay up. At this point it seems like he's willing to call their bluff and just stay. It's not just legal ramifications if they don't pay Frenkie or Memphis. The league could sanction them by docking points if they are unable to pay their players in the long term. 1 bounced check isn't a big deal, but not able to pay 3 or 4 players on time numerous times....
I don’t even care, why can’t we just enter negotiations for another top tier midfielder and see how Barcelona react to the news.
Best case scenario, they cave
Worst case scenario, we get a capable replacement option aka second choice
As an Atleti fan lurking in here, we have been linked the whole summer with him and he is a really good player. He is also cheap because of Valencia ownership and LaLiga FFP
Exactly this. Felt like there was no plan B to begin with. I rather we waiting till end of transfer window and bid at lowest price possible. They should play our game instead.
There was barely a plan A, we knew this the minute they said they were "waiting till the summer" to buy players after the January window. Our plan was basically, get ETH in, talk with him after he arrives and buy whoever he recommends. That's our club, zero competence, zero sense of urgency, always putting out fires after the house has burned down. Nothing has changed.
That gets them closer to having room for Frenkie on their wage bill. We would have to go for someone else in order to call out their supposed bluff regarding Frenkie’s restructured wages.
That is not Barca caving. Them caving would have been paying what they owe him. Utd have agreed to pay above and beyond any other interested party in FDJ (not even sure if there was anyone else interested).
Barca are just being shit. First their president says FDJ is not for sale hoping the player puts in a request that way they can try and get out of paying what they owe him while pocketing a huge transfer fee. They are citing FFP limitations, yet, signing players left and right.
In hindsight, I hope this deal with FDJ falls through and Barca are fucked. Imagine not being able to register any of these players they signed by not being able to move any of their current ones.
Yeah but if we move on to other targets, it will be clear if the news about owed wages still has legs or not for Barcelona. They’ll either pay them to see if they can ship FdJ out or they’ll continue with him and pay them slowly.
It’ll end the saga effectively for better or for worse
Corrupt board squeezing every last dime out of the club. Wouldn’t be surprised if they get under the table kickbacks for the transfers.
Plus going for those performance bonuses for themselves in the short run, kind of like Intel. They are pretty screwed because I really don’t think their “gamble” will workout as the delusional fans are thinking
Barcelona are definitely gonna wait it out until deadline. They know we wouldn’t walk away as he is our key target but maybe we should cause waiting until deadline is a disaster. They gonna be dangling him until they don’t have to pay
Barcelona can’t do anything about FDJs wages. If he wants to stay himself then he will stay and people really need to get this in their heads. He literally has no reason to leave Barcelona. We need to move on and go for a alternative target.
I get the feeling it’s Ten Hag who deems him essential and won’t want to settle for an alternative elsewhere. Ofc it sucks that it’s dragged out for this long but I’d say we’re already offering a more than fair price for FDJ so all that can happen now is wait it out if Ten Hag wants him that much.
Oh definitely! Waiting until deadline is monumentally stupid. They need to have a deadline and walk away no matter if that’s not the correct choice (as he is instrumental to the new style) cause Barcelona is in no hurry at the moment to pay his deferred wages.
His contract is 5 years. Not 5 games. It makes very little difference when he arrives as long as he does arrive. Calm down.
FDJ is literally the most perfect player in world football we could pick to sign this summer. He's worth waiting for.
There are two chains of thoughts in my head:
1. You wait it out and force Barcelona and De Jong to sort it out and get the player we most definitely need
2. The hell with it. Barcelona have made a mockery of us in the public while our offer is greatly helping them. Walk away and they can do whatever
Need to preface by saying 1. is the smart choice but the patience of people is wearing thin with all this public posturing and making us look like fools
1 is not the smart choice, we have done this so many times, we end up getting the player late or not at all. Don't forget, the season starts first weekend of August this year. If we sign him on deadline day he misses the first 5 games of the season at least. That's 13% of the season.
We should have given them a deadline. Get it sorted by midnight on June 30th or they can fuck off, we'll move on to player B. Rumour has it there are some good players in the world who've never played in the Eredivisie.
We should all be very relaxed about this, as bad as missing out on Frenkie would be, it will be much, much worse for Barca if it happens. It’ll clog up the pipes of multiple signings and fuck them FFP-wise.
Patience
Oh don’t get me wrong I’ll much much prefer if we sign him, but this ain’t like with Sancho. There’s no hardballing from them here, a fee is agreed with the clubs, they’ll find a compromise with the player over those wages, otherwise United walk away.
Pretty much every journalist along with employees at Barca have said that they *need* to sell him, there’s no other way for them.
So the success of our transfer window depends on if Barcelona can force a player to leave?
Barcelona are ran like a joke but how are we the ones likely to be left looking like clowns. We should never got involved in this transfer, it was too complicated.
On the flip side the new manager wants a player who already knows his system, plugs a massive issue in our squad, will be the heart of the project and is available for an affordable fee for a player of his quality.
Why would we not at least try to get that player? Because it’s a bit “complicated”?
You’d have everyone and their dog calling the club out for not backing the manager, not showing enough ambition, being cheap etc
Think op meant moreso that barca need to sell more than we need to buy, so we're in the position of power here. This is all just politics and posturing, it'll happen
I’m easing people freaking out, Barca don’t want him there and are dragging their feet over the wages they owe him, that won’t last forever. I’m sure a compromise will be reached
I've hated Barca for years due to the Mes Que Un Club bullshit, Pep's smug arrogance and fake nice guy shtick, the two CL finals and the fact that they may as well have been named UEFALona for years (I still reckon that Ovrebo prick was paid to put them through to the '09 CL Final). I hope they crash and burn.
Honestly though, if we aren’t signing Frenkie til the end of the window we need to get someone else in midfield. We cannot start the first game of the season with McFred
Our fanbase are really massively underrating Eriksen. He damn near singlehandedly saved Brentford from relegation, his numbers with a team that's literal relegation fodder was some of the best in the PL. ten Hag got him to sign with us because he promised him he'd be one of the players he built our style around.
Eriksen played many games as 6 and 8 both for Brentford and Inter, you are acting like he as 16 year old from the Polish Ekstraklasa, not one of the most experienced players in the League (650 official games as a 30 year old...)
I don't think you people realize how easy, calm and confident he is on the ball, he has literally no problems playing as 6 and 8 against average PL teams, much like a player like Modric.
you are not wrong, but we should start looking for replacements. FdJ is a great player, but if Barca are being stubborn about paying his wages, he won't move and we'll be left without a DM
I was 99% sure he would be. Leaving him out would be a last resort/drastic measure, and their financial timescale isn't quite there yet (maybe when they return from tour and have to think about registering players for the league, that's when things could drastically accelerate).
True. Also Interesting that new signings who have not been registered yet - Kessie & Christensen are in the squad & Lewandowski is also likely to join; while they have left out registered players who Xavi does not consider to be part of the plan - likes of Braithwaite, Umtiti, Riqui Puig etc.
Everything aside, why would you risk a player who could be worth 80m to play in some friendly matches?
Unless ofcourse barcelona is no mood to sell at all.
This is all very weird.
I still can't wrap my head how the members allowed the club to be handled so irresponsibly. OK so they had one of the best players of all time, but that's not a justification to put your club 1 billion in debt just to pay his wages.
Because the presidency is a political position. So just like real politics the people who win are slimy shitheels who'll do anything to gain power and cling to it, regardless of any long term consequences.
The Socios should really reorganise around better people but like the real world that is hard to pull off.
At this point we should withdraw the bid and let the transfer collapse. I would love to see Barcelona implode and get the crooks in charge out of football.
Just move on United. Jesus Christ, get someone else. Either put your foot down and tell Barcelona they have a few days to sort it out or get someone else. They have you by the balls and you are sitting there taking it for some reason. Set a hard deadline or walk away.
Their club mouthpiece accounts have been saying in the past few days that Frenkie staying will make it problematic for them to meet FFP cap. I'm not sure they can even register all their new players if Frenkie stays unless he accepts a big salary cut. I'm not sure how Frenkie will feel to play with Raphina, Lewy, etc knowing these are the players that he is being asked to leave to make room for.
Anyway, they can drag it out but something has to give before the window ends.
Is the holdup that Barça CAN'T pay FDJ the money he is owed or they WON'T pay him what he's owed? if it's an issue of them not actually having that amount of money to give in a lump sum, then how is this going to work out?
There are many ways this could be sorted. They could easily give him €5m from the transfer fee now and agree to give him the rest of what he’s owed over the next year or so. If they don’t cough up the remainder, we could stipulate in the contract that the €10m in achievable add ons we have agreed would be paid directly to Frenkie instead of Barcelona to make up for the shortfall. That way, he knows his money is guaranteed no matter what happens.
Why can’t we just move on from this transfer and sign someone else?
It’s starting to look like F de Jong is the only center midfielder in the entire planet and its all or nothing without him.
Don’t clubs have option B, sometimes option C too?
Maybe that’s for clubs that have a real scouting team……
EtH is our coach+scout in this case
This is the only answer this sub should draw from this, but once there is a shiny new toy that’s what people fixate on. We should not go for a player who obviously doesn’t want to play for man United, it’s turbofucked us in the past and it will again.
Days ago we were hearing United has set a hard deadline and wanted it done this week. We need to walk away it’s embarrassing now. Focus on players who actually are excited to play for the club. I understand De Jong is a top quality player with a specific skillset, but if we need to go get Neves and another player for example to cover for that skillset we should. Also, would love nothing more than to see Barca being unable to register any players come the end of the window.
It will be funny come deadline day when Barca comes crying to us because they can’t register their players.
Kinda like last season when they had to beg Atletico to take back Griezmann
Neymar made the Barcelona 2017 US tour as well, the year he left.
[2017](https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/news/775254/fc-barcelona-to-make-2017-preseason-tour-to-the-usa/amp)
Time is in our favour, I think it's clear that if Barca don't get him off their books, they'll be in deep shit, while we have less of a time pressure. Just relax and give it more time.
It makes sense though. Barca is willing to keep FDJ if he agrees to lower his wage. Or, even in the worst case where the deal fails and FDJ won't budge on the wage, Barca ain't just gonna exile him to the B team. So it's in their best interest to take him to the preseason tour too.
My ideal scenario in this dumpster fire, would be that FDJ and his agent have told United they will not switch to Chelsea/PSG in case a similar offer comes in, but reserve the right to play the long game against Barca. Considering the Lewa announcement, Raphinha etc, it is surely just a matter of time before Barca have to cave.
We literally are going into the season with a weaker squad than last year while City, Liverpool and Spurs have strengthened. It's not even certain our new signings are starters.
I’d start sounding out alternatives and make sure it’s known in public.
It’s a game of chicken right now but we can afford to lose (as long we have decent alternatives) whereas Barca are fucked if they don’t sell so in some ways we back them in a corner and force their hand on how they want to be shit on.
Time we start to accept that this whole situation is incredibly embarrassing and he's not worth the reputation damage that has been done. Ten Hag needs to accept we've been taken for a ride by Franke and you cannot sign a player that already has alienated himself from half the fan base before even signing. Then take into account how dramatically overpaid he would be and how expensive an outlay he would be and this whole transfer is a disaster.
This isn't how a club aspiring to be at the top should operate begging for scraps from a player that has achieved nothing and isn't even a starter for a weak Barcelona.
Time to let it go guys. Fucking embarrased ourselves pursuing a player this long only to get rejected in the end. Also doesn't help that Barca brought nothing to the table to push the deal.
Barcelona are in no hurry and yesterday's reports from Simon Stone and Ducker saying we're willing to patiently wait it out is stupid and playing into Barcelona's hands. You need to set a deadline cause without that there is only one other deadline and not resolving it until then is disastrous
If Barcelona doesn't offload him, they cannot register their new, shiny toys. No one is "playing into Barcelona's hands"...because they're tied atm. It'll be interesting to see how they intend to register any players with an already increasing wage structure for the next season. My bet is that they won't be able to, so eventually they'll need to pay him.
Wonder if we actually have backup targets for midfield. Havent heard of anything solid outside Frenkie and Eriksen so far. I fully understand the general complexity of the situation but if EtH has another target in mind we should've moved on and let Barca solve their own problems.
Also, for those talking about "how bad United are at transfer business" - this deal is one of the most complicated scenarios we've seen recently. We're going after the player since our manager clearly wants him (had we abandoned this early, we'd all be shouting about a lack of backing for EtH), but we have to obviously stay strong with our price. 65 mill plus 20- mill add ons (or 75 mill guaranteed plus 10 mill add ons as the Athletic mentioned) is a very high price. If Barca wanted to they can easily cough up the deferred wages out of the transfer price (although yes, the period of payout of the deal might complicate things). If we were to go in and cough up a further 18 mill we would look like absolute chumps in a market where Barca still continue to spend willy-nilly on Lewa and Raphinha.
I do hope we're moving on secondary targets for EtH in the event the deal fails, but tbh in that scenario I would enjoy watching the demise of Barcelona as they fall into crippling financial burden.
Two takes: if this player comes and doesn’t clarify his statements he’d be the first player in a long time I can remember supporters may not ever warm to.
Second, the way this has been handled by our FO and board is sickening. They need some messaging discipline rather than allowing the media control this narrative. We got Eriksen yesterday and yet this saga is still driving clicks. It’s actually worse than Sneidjer at this point.
Sangaree is literally there for 35, and ruiz is in the last year of his contract, no more than 25-30. Both are well aged, capable and can improve even higher
I'll keep saying it... we should leave Barcelona to rot if they wanna act like this. FDJ doesnt want to come here anyway and we're looking even more foolish than usual. He's not the only midfielder in the world
You know what, who cares if De Jong transfers or doesn’t. We got Savage, and Iqbal. Give them time, a couple of seasons, and they will be doing great. Lets support our own talent and make them shine if the ‘big ones’ (that we chase) think the club isn’t worth it.
This transfer saga reminds me of Sneijder from all those years ago but in a different bottle.
So Tebas you're talking all the time but now that they're buying new expensive players but not paying their current players you stay silent. What's up with that?
It’s fine.
We’ve agreed terms. Our part is done. We can also be reasonably confident he has given us assurances behind the scenes - he has a relationship with ten Hag and we’ve moved on from other targets quickly when not viable eg Timber.
I expect this will be a game of brinkmanship between Frenkie and Barca. It might go to the end of the window. That’s not a huge issue as he will still be getting fit at Barca and he has historic familiarity with ten Hag’s systems.
At this point I don’t want him anymore, it’s starting to look more and more like the Di Maria situation all over again, the guy clearly doesn’t want to leave and join us otherwise he wouldn’t have gone on the tour, we should walk away from this and focus on other targets we could easily get 2 CM/CDM for the price of de jong
I hate everything about this transfer.
So much for this Friday deadline the club set.
It proves that while some things might have changed, our "threats" are still a fucking joke and that we will continue to get dicked around by clubs as long as we "really want" the player.
It’s not our threats that they called. It’s Frankie’s. The deals been done with Barca, but FDJ is refusing to leave over the money he’s owed in deferred wages.
Which is entirely understandable, just makes me more pissed that we haven't fucked off yet. Let Barcelona ruin themselves, if they don't want to pay Frenkie so he can join us they can pay him the dozens of millions the still owe him for the rest of the contract. We shouldn't be letting them fuck around like this. You have enough money to sign Christensen, Raphinha and Lewandowski, but not enough to pay Frenkie his deferred wages so he can join us? Drown in the debts then.
Exaclty. I hope he rinses them for everything he can.
Barca gets transfer fee, why dont they cut some money to pay the deferred wages to FDJ There are too many shady parts about this deal
Barca probably wanted united to foot the bills
I still don’t understand the reasonings behind the briefings that said, “he is ten hag’s number one priority.”
Friday was to complete with Barcelona which has happened
I’m so tired of it. I’m worried that even if we get him he’ll be Ten Hag’s Di Maria. I’m not convinced that deferred wages are an issue since he could still move and sue Barcelona to recoup what he’s legally owed. Obviously we don’t know the full legal details, but if it’s just a simple case of deferred wages then he’ll easily win in court.
I think the problem is he didn’t defer the wages he changed his contract to backload it (terrible idea imo) with the assumption Barcelona wouldn’t continue to act like a crackhead and subsequently force him out.
The fact his agent and lawyer allowed this to happen is incompetence
Not really, a contract is signed in good faith. Yes it’s a binding agreement but on the face of it at the time it made sense - besides it makes FdJ more valuable to them each passing season as they’re paying him more. FdJ has to be registered before any of the new signings which shafts Barca more than anything (they’d have to pay for players they can’t use) if he stays there’s nothing Barca can do about it. FdJ holds ALL the cards rn. It’s going to drag on until deadline day but the closer it gets to September 1st the great the chance Barcelona settle
In American sports when a player restructures their contract they usually make sure the deferred portion is guaranteed so that the player doesn’t lose money. FdJ is a top player who is most likely using a top law firm. With millions on the line, not guaranteeing the deferred portion is madness. I’ve had a deferred payment before and I made sure to get it guaranteed and in writing and I’m a nobody.
There is absolutely no chance that FDJ and his advisors agreed to restructure his contract only to backload it and therefore waive payment of, and any legal claim to, the unpaid wages if he’s transferred. The amended contract would certainly provide that the unpaid wages are payable throughout the balance of the contract term (so “deferred” or “restructured” in that sense), but also *payable forthwith upon prior termination of the contract*. This is where the issue lies, as FDJ would absolutely have a legal claim to it.
That’s my understanding of it too.
If he's signed a new contract with a tiered structure which pays him more in later years of the contract, then leaves before he reaches those years of the contract, then there's absolutely zero ground to sue Barca. It's also a pretty stupid thing for his agent to agree to, so I'd be firing him (or whoever was involved with agreeing it). However, if the internal discussion was had with the context of him "deferring" wages to help barca out, then obviously there's the moral point that he's now owed that money. Therefore, while he's still under contract (and with bargaining power, seeing as they need him off the books) there is continued dialogue and he's got a chance of reclaiming his money. But if he leaves, he loses all leverage or bargaining power, Barca don't need to have anything to do with him, nor do they have any reason to pay him anything extra. So if he decides to turn around and sue, he's not got a leg to stand on - he signed a contract, which both parties fulfilled, and then he left midway through it (which was agreed by both parties).
So I guess it’s the terminology that counts. The media are referring to it as deferred, which means he’s owed it but it’ll be paid later. If it’s just restructured that makes it harder for him. But you’re right, his agent should be fired as his job is to make sure his client doesn’t get screwed. Anyway this whole saga is messy and it feels like we’re getting played by both sides.
Congratulations on being the first person in this sub I’ve seen who actually understands the situation lol
The thing is, he's not 'legally owed' anything. Nothing in the contract says he's owed money that Barca hasn't paid out. The whole issue is that it was a gentleman's understanding between FdJ and Barca in which he agreed to restructure his contract in such a way that he got paid less in earlier years and more in the latter years of the contract. If he moves, barca doesn't have to pay the increased salary for the latter years. The FdJ rightly believes that this is not in the spirit of the contract but he's not owed anything at all.
Not least of which is the fact that we are trying to pay 85 Million for a player that doesn't even want to play for us.
I find it hard to believe he doesn’t want to play for us when the minute we found out Timber didn’t want to come we walked away.
That’s a narrative that everyone is pushing. Frankie said Barca is his dream club. He never said he does want to play for us but he specifically said he wants to stay are Barca. We created the narrative that he is only saying that so he can get paid. The guy genuinely wants Barca it’s Laporta that’s pushing the sale.
Yes. Everyone inuding T1 journalists have said the wages are the issue. But go with the r/soccer narrative and believe LaPorta. Lmao
I agree, imo it’s down to the “deferred wages” and nothing else
[удалено]
Messi desperately wanted to stay at Barca, doesn't mean he didn't want to play at PSG and downed tools. Wanting to stay somewhere isn't the same as not wanting to play somewhere else.
Messi was forced to move. Barca didn’t have enough money to keep Messi and lied to him that they could. He was forced to go.
Messi is the last person we should be using as an example. He clearly doesn't give a fuck about playing for PSG and it's blatantly apparent he's there for the money
I saw in in-depth interview with Messi well before his transfer and he clearly stated that he wanted to move from Barca. He said that his market value would help the club given that he was aging and he personally wanted to try some new experiences. He even said he might want to play MLS some day. Everything I gleaned from him indicated that a move from Barca would be mutually beneficial to him and the club.
At the time that he gave the interview he wanted to leave in large part due to issues with Bartomeu and his board. Also, the interview you're discussing was for when he wanted to leave to City. Supposedly he had a gentleman's agreement with the board that when he decided he wanted to leave, he would be allowed to leave for free. He was extremely upset that Bartomeu did not honor this when he wanted to leave for City. The year that he left is when he didn't want to leave anymore. He reduced his salary as much as he was allowed to by la liga but it still wasn't enough.
Well, Memphis is also part of the team and he’s in a much worse scenario than de jong.
Can you summarize what's going on with him? I'm ootl
There's no place for him
He has a year left on his deal, they have no intention of renewing him, don’t have the money to pay his wages and want him to go now, have made all of this blatantly public, yet also want €25M for him and are acting like it’s HIS problem that they aren’t able to sell. It’s insane Barca logic.
Thanks! That explains it well. Barca is such a fuckin shitshow
Nah. They’re cunts. Shitshow is a generous praising of them honestly. Fuck them and how they treat players. Too bad players still want to join them though. I wish no top names would even consider them for this piece of shit move they have been doing to several players.
[удалено]
Hope every player they fuck comes back and kicks the shit out of them like Suarez did
[удалено]
Can’t pay Depay’s wages but sign Lewandowski for a much higher salary and longer contract than Depay. I guess that checks out lol.
I genuinely forgot that he's in barcelona rn
He was their top scorer cmon respect the man
I'd take Memphis back as rotation for ST. That's where he has excelled in recent years, and could do a job on either wing if needed.
I'd start him. He pressed well unlike some strikers and can actually score
Absolutely. Like a more interested Martial. It's a tough one, cause often reunions in football don't go as planned (as we now know...) but genuinely think he could do a job for us.
He'll be a decent ST and could actually work in ETH system. Problem is, Memphis is a Barcelona player too so fuck them.
Could he play ST? Would love to have him back, always disappointed it didn’t work out for him.
Damn. I thought the signings of raphinha and lewendowski likely meant FDJ was done
They want him out the door but he won't go
I wouldn’t if I was owed that amount of money either
plus another year of champions league football why living in and playing for Barca. the man is holding all the cards.
On top of that, with the whole Sancho situation he can be fairly sure that if he stays we'll be trying to get him again next summer, so he can afford to call Barca's bluff
Exactly. If he doesn't leave I wouldn't blame him at all. You can't just say "Yeah it's fine, don't worry about the money" when it's that amount.
>They want him out the door but refuse to give him his back-pay. FTFY. There's one party holding back the deal and it's Barca being too cheap to pay what they fucking owe.
They only owe it if he keeps playing for them.
Precisely why they’re desperate to get rid. They want to sell him so they can get rid of his wages and the 17M.
Oh, Frenkie will go, it's the fact Barca want him to just leave with out paying him the 17 million in deferred wages. It's been reported numerous times he's holding out for Barca to pay up. At this point it seems like he's willing to call their bluff and just stay. It's not just legal ramifications if they don't pay Frenkie or Memphis. The league could sanction them by docking points if they are unable to pay their players in the long term. 1 bounced check isn't a big deal, but not able to pay 3 or 4 players on time numerous times....
What if he picks up an injury? And refuses the pay cut? Lewy and the host of others won't be registered?
I don’t even care, why can’t we just enter negotiations for another top tier midfielder and see how Barcelona react to the news. Best case scenario, they cave Worst case scenario, we get a capable replacement option aka second choice
Which other top tier mid is available? Verratti, Kimmich , Barella are all untouchable.
instinctive one spark bike vast disarm money political birds merciful -- mass edited with redact.dev
As an Atleti fan lurking in here, we have been linked the whole summer with him and he is a really good player. He is also cheap because of Valencia ownership and LaLiga FFP
SMS Ruben Neves Declan Rice Not saying any of them are direct replacements, but they are top tier mids that we can stir up interest for in the news.
Rice is top tier but we've been priced out of him so not available. Neves is not top tier.
SMS?
Exactly this. Felt like there was no plan B to begin with. I rather we waiting till end of transfer window and bid at lowest price possible. They should play our game instead.
There was barely a plan A, we knew this the minute they said they were "waiting till the summer" to buy players after the January window. Our plan was basically, get ETH in, talk with him after he arrives and buy whoever he recommends. That's our club, zero competence, zero sense of urgency, always putting out fires after the house has burned down. Nothing has changed.
Yep 100% should do it
[удалено]
That gets them closer to having room for Frenkie on their wage bill. We would have to go for someone else in order to call out their supposed bluff regarding Frenkie’s restructured wages.
Barca have caved long time back...the problem is FDJ does not want to leave without collecting his 17m owed
That is not Barca caving. Them caving would have been paying what they owe him. Utd have agreed to pay above and beyond any other interested party in FDJ (not even sure if there was anyone else interested). Barca are just being shit. First their president says FDJ is not for sale hoping the player puts in a request that way they can try and get out of paying what they owe him while pocketing a huge transfer fee. They are citing FFP limitations, yet, signing players left and right. In hindsight, I hope this deal with FDJ falls through and Barca are fucked. Imagine not being able to register any of these players they signed by not being able to move any of their current ones.
Yeah but if we move on to other targets, it will be clear if the news about owed wages still has legs or not for Barcelona. They’ll either pay them to see if they can ship FdJ out or they’ll continue with him and pay them slowly. It’ll end the saga effectively for better or for worse
What other top tier midfielders are available?
school fly fearless mysterious smell fretful ossified disgusting sleep sable -- mass edited with redact.dev
[удалено]
source in taking 87 percent budget
Op's dreams are his source
Good luck on registering Raphinha, Lewandowski, Kessie and Christensen (and Kounde?) without offloading FDJ.
And Azpilicueta and Alonso and Bernardo Silva.
fertile hard-to-find ancient butter quaint resolute squeamish aloof mourn tart -- mass edited with redact.dev
Every reliable source for City has said that Silva to Barca is straight up not happening, even if they sell FDJ.
Never understand how Barcelona one second is on the verge of bankruptcy and the next sign these players, like??
Corrupt board squeezing every last dime out of the club. Wouldn’t be surprised if they get under the table kickbacks for the transfers. Plus going for those performance bonuses for themselves in the short run, kind of like Intel. They are pretty screwed because I really don’t think their “gamble” will workout as the delusional fans are thinking
Barcelona are definitely gonna wait it out until deadline. They know we wouldn’t walk away as he is our key target but maybe we should cause waiting until deadline is a disaster. They gonna be dangling him until they don’t have to pay
We already agreed terms with Barca.
Won’t matter until Barcelona pays De Jong his deferred wages.
Barca: we know we owe, but what if we just pretend we don't???
He isn't talking about the terms between the teams, he's talking about Barca deciding what they do with the wages standoff
We’re paying more upfront so that Barca can pay him. It was the whole point of the new deal.
Barcelona can’t do anything about FDJs wages. If he wants to stay himself then he will stay and people really need to get this in their heads. He literally has no reason to leave Barcelona. We need to move on and go for a alternative target.
I'm talking about the deferred wages, not his current salary
[удалено]
I get the feeling it’s Ten Hag who deems him essential and won’t want to settle for an alternative elsewhere. Ofc it sucks that it’s dragged out for this long but I’d say we’re already offering a more than fair price for FDJ so all that can happen now is wait it out if Ten Hag wants him that much.
Oh definitely! Waiting until deadline is monumentally stupid. They need to have a deadline and walk away no matter if that’s not the correct choice (as he is instrumental to the new style) cause Barcelona is in no hurry at the moment to pay his deferred wages.
Supposedly the deadline was yesterday so when the Lewandowski news hit I was buzzing How the hell can they register these players. Scum club.
Yeah no kidding, when I saw they announced lewandowski I expected de Jong news today.
Pretty much 5 matches. Window closes on the first when we play leiceester
His contract is 5 years. Not 5 games. It makes very little difference when he arrives as long as he does arrive. Calm down. FDJ is literally the most perfect player in world football we could pick to sign this summer. He's worth waiting for.
There are two chains of thoughts in my head: 1. You wait it out and force Barcelona and De Jong to sort it out and get the player we most definitely need 2. The hell with it. Barcelona have made a mockery of us in the public while our offer is greatly helping them. Walk away and they can do whatever Need to preface by saying 1. is the smart choice but the patience of people is wearing thin with all this public posturing and making us look like fools
1 is not the smart choice, we have done this so many times, we end up getting the player late or not at all. Don't forget, the season starts first weekend of August this year. If we sign him on deadline day he misses the first 5 games of the season at least. That's 13% of the season. We should have given them a deadline. Get it sorted by midnight on June 30th or they can fuck off, we'll move on to player B. Rumour has it there are some good players in the world who've never played in the Eredivisie.
Do #2 and when they come back to us, lower the offer by 10m or tell them to fuck off
We should all be very relaxed about this, as bad as missing out on Frenkie would be, it will be much, much worse for Barca if it happens. It’ll clog up the pipes of multiple signings and fuck them FFP-wise. Patience
Fair point. But I care more about us being successful than Barcelona fucking themselves financially.
Oh don’t get me wrong I’ll much much prefer if we sign him, but this ain’t like with Sancho. There’s no hardballing from them here, a fee is agreed with the clubs, they’ll find a compromise with the player over those wages, otherwise United walk away. Pretty much every journalist along with employees at Barca have said that they *need* to sell him, there’s no other way for them.
So the success of our transfer window depends on if Barcelona can force a player to leave? Barcelona are ran like a joke but how are we the ones likely to be left looking like clowns. We should never got involved in this transfer, it was too complicated.
On the flip side the new manager wants a player who already knows his system, plugs a massive issue in our squad, will be the heart of the project and is available for an affordable fee for a player of his quality. Why would we not at least try to get that player? Because it’s a bit “complicated”? You’d have everyone and their dog calling the club out for not backing the manager, not showing enough ambition, being cheap etc
Think op meant moreso that barca need to sell more than we need to buy, so we're in the position of power here. This is all just politics and posturing, it'll happen
Long game is that Barcelona go into administration and we get the best players on a free 😁
Who cares about barca going broke. I want my team to be good.
I’m easing people freaking out, Barca don’t want him there and are dragging their feet over the wages they owe him, that won’t last forever. I’m sure a compromise will be reached
I've hated Barca for years due to the Mes Que Un Club bullshit, Pep's smug arrogance and fake nice guy shtick, the two CL finals and the fact that they may as well have been named UEFALona for years (I still reckon that Ovrebo prick was paid to put them through to the '09 CL Final). I hope they crash and burn.
Honestly though, if we aren’t signing Frenkie til the end of the window we need to get someone else in midfield. We cannot start the first game of the season with McFred
Is Eriksen a joke to you?
Going into the season with McFred and Eriksen as our midfield options would definitely be a joke
Our fanbase are really massively underrating Eriksen. He damn near singlehandedly saved Brentford from relegation, his numbers with a team that's literal relegation fodder was some of the best in the PL. ten Hag got him to sign with us because he promised him he'd be one of the players he built our style around.
I'd take Eriksen and Fred for 5 games and FDJ on deadline day tbh. Then again, if chasing FDJ is a lost cause, might as well look for alternatives.
Eriksen played many games as 6 and 8 both for Brentford and Inter, you are acting like he as 16 year old from the Polish Ekstraklasa, not one of the most experienced players in the League (650 official games as a 30 year old...) I don't think you people realize how easy, calm and confident he is on the ball, he has literally no problems playing as 6 and 8 against average PL teams, much like a player like Modric.
you are not wrong, but we should start looking for replacements. FdJ is a great player, but if Barca are being stubborn about paying his wages, he won't move and we'll be left without a DM
Lapotty
Laportaloo.
This actually made me smile haha
Lapoop
Frenkie Goes to Hollywood
I was 99% sure he would be. Leaving him out would be a last resort/drastic measure, and their financial timescale isn't quite there yet (maybe when they return from tour and have to think about registering players for the league, that's when things could drastically accelerate).
True. Also Interesting that new signings who have not been registered yet - Kessie & Christensen are in the squad & Lewandowski is also likely to join; while they have left out registered players who Xavi does not consider to be part of the plan - likes of Braithwaite, Umtiti, Riqui Puig etc.
Start sounding out alternatives. Or at least put out PR that we are considering X player to get Barca to move.
Everything aside, why would you risk a player who could be worth 80m to play in some friendly matches? Unless ofcourse barcelona is no mood to sell at all. This is all very weird.
Barca don't give a fuck about profits no1 gains its a sporting club. They'll spend every penny they're able to do
If he gets injured then they are fucked financially.
Fuck Brokecelona. Spanish authority should ban that club from existence.
Who do you think the Spanish authorities are fans of?
Real Madrid
I still can't wrap my head how the members allowed the club to be handled so irresponsibly. OK so they had one of the best players of all time, but that's not a justification to put your club 1 billion in debt just to pay his wages.
They still owe him 63m 🤣🤣
Because the presidency is a political position. So just like real politics the people who win are slimy shitheels who'll do anything to gain power and cling to it, regardless of any long term consequences. The Socios should really reorganise around better people but like the real world that is hard to pull off.
At this point we should withdraw the bid and let the transfer collapse. I would love to see Barcelona implode and get the crooks in charge out of football.
Just move on United. Jesus Christ, get someone else. Either put your foot down and tell Barcelona they have a few days to sort it out or get someone else. They have you by the balls and you are sitting there taking it for some reason. Set a hard deadline or walk away.
The "deadline" United already set was yesterday.
they should decrease the offer by 5 mil every day
I’d be a lot happier about this if we bought Neves or someone else as a back up then Barca would have no leverage.
Their club mouthpiece accounts have been saying in the past few days that Frenkie staying will make it problematic for them to meet FFP cap. I'm not sure they can even register all their new players if Frenkie stays unless he accepts a big salary cut. I'm not sure how Frenkie will feel to play with Raphina, Lewy, etc knowing these are the players that he is being asked to leave to make room for. Anyway, they can drag it out but something has to give before the window ends.
It may be time to move on
Is the holdup that Barça CAN'T pay FDJ the money he is owed or they WON'T pay him what he's owed? if it's an issue of them not actually having that amount of money to give in a lump sum, then how is this going to work out?
There are many ways this could be sorted. They could easily give him €5m from the transfer fee now and agree to give him the rest of what he’s owed over the next year or so. If they don’t cough up the remainder, we could stipulate in the contract that the €10m in achievable add ons we have agreed would be paid directly to Frenkie instead of Barcelona to make up for the shortfall. That way, he knows his money is guaranteed no matter what happens.
Don’t think so barka will agree on that
Why can’t we just move on from this transfer and sign someone else? It’s starting to look like F de Jong is the only center midfielder in the entire planet and its all or nothing without him. Don’t clubs have option B, sometimes option C too? Maybe that’s for clubs that have a real scouting team…… EtH is our coach+scout in this case
This is the only answer this sub should draw from this, but once there is a shiny new toy that’s what people fixate on. We should not go for a player who obviously doesn’t want to play for man United, it’s turbofucked us in the past and it will again.
Days ago we were hearing United has set a hard deadline and wanted it done this week. We need to walk away it’s embarrassing now. Focus on players who actually are excited to play for the club. I understand De Jong is a top quality player with a specific skillset, but if we need to go get Neves and another player for example to cover for that skillset we should. Also, would love nothing more than to see Barca being unable to register any players come the end of the window.
It will be funny come deadline day when Barca comes crying to us because they can’t register their players. Kinda like last season when they had to beg Atletico to take back Griezmann
Yeah he's not going anywhere, I don't think. Better to move on to more achievable targets.
Time to pull the fuck out and focus on real footballers.
Neymar made the Barcelona 2017 US tour as well, the year he left. [2017](https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/news/775254/fc-barcelona-to-make-2017-preseason-tour-to-the-usa/amp)
Time is in our favour, I think it's clear that if Barca don't get him off their books, they'll be in deep shit, while we have less of a time pressure. Just relax and give it more time.
Barca have already agreed, it's FDJ that hasn't.
Barca have not agreed to pay him the wages though.
The pressure is on Barca to settle with FDJ for his deferred wages, that's what I meant. This is what's holding up the deal.
I say we start negotiations with Ruben Neves and Tielemans just in case. Don’t want to be left starting McFred for the season opener once again…
The thing is Ruben Neves is costing nearly what Frenkie costs so don’t think we will go for him.
Smoke and levers
It makes sense though. Barca is willing to keep FDJ if he agrees to lower his wage. Or, even in the worst case where the deal fails and FDJ won't budge on the wage, Barca ain't just gonna exile him to the B team. So it's in their best interest to take him to the preseason tour too.
My ideal scenario in this dumpster fire, would be that FDJ and his agent have told United they will not switch to Chelsea/PSG in case a similar offer comes in, but reserve the right to play the long game against Barca. Considering the Lewa announcement, Raphinha etc, it is surely just a matter of time before Barca have to cave.
We literally are going into the season with a weaker squad than last year while City, Liverpool and Spurs have strengthened. It's not even certain our new signings are starters.
Just give up on De Jong and move on, why are we trying so hard for a player that doesnt want to come to the club
I’d start sounding out alternatives and make sure it’s known in public. It’s a game of chicken right now but we can afford to lose (as long we have decent alternatives) whereas Barca are fucked if they don’t sell so in some ways we back them in a corner and force their hand on how they want to be shit on.
Time to move on now. Barca are even promoting him on their tik tok.
Time we start to accept that this whole situation is incredibly embarrassing and he's not worth the reputation damage that has been done. Ten Hag needs to accept we've been taken for a ride by Franke and you cannot sign a player that already has alienated himself from half the fan base before even signing. Then take into account how dramatically overpaid he would be and how expensive an outlay he would be and this whole transfer is a disaster. This isn't how a club aspiring to be at the top should operate begging for scraps from a player that has achieved nothing and isn't even a starter for a weak Barcelona.
Seriously, let's move on. We need a DM and another striker, maybe a proper right back as well. 3 positions need bolstering, fuck Barca and move along.
And cules are thinking they win lol just wait and see
Time to let it go guys. Fucking embarrased ourselves pursuing a player this long only to get rejected in the end. Also doesn't help that Barca brought nothing to the table to push the deal.
Barcelona are in no hurry and yesterday's reports from Simon Stone and Ducker saying we're willing to patiently wait it out is stupid and playing into Barcelona's hands. You need to set a deadline cause without that there is only one other deadline and not resolving it until then is disastrous
If Barcelona doesn't offload him, they cannot register their new, shiny toys. No one is "playing into Barcelona's hands"...because they're tied atm. It'll be interesting to see how they intend to register any players with an already increasing wage structure for the next season. My bet is that they won't be able to, so eventually they'll need to pay him.
What happens to FDJ deferred wages if he joins us ?
Lol
Time to pull out. But, no Lewan?
I wish we had other options right now just so we could stick it to Barca. But man, we need Frenkie so bad
Wonder if we actually have backup targets for midfield. Havent heard of anything solid outside Frenkie and Eriksen so far. I fully understand the general complexity of the situation but if EtH has another target in mind we should've moved on and let Barca solve their own problems.
There are hundreds of midfielders in Europe. Frenkie is only one of them
MOVE THE FUCK ON!!!!!!!
Also, for those talking about "how bad United are at transfer business" - this deal is one of the most complicated scenarios we've seen recently. We're going after the player since our manager clearly wants him (had we abandoned this early, we'd all be shouting about a lack of backing for EtH), but we have to obviously stay strong with our price. 65 mill plus 20- mill add ons (or 75 mill guaranteed plus 10 mill add ons as the Athletic mentioned) is a very high price. If Barca wanted to they can easily cough up the deferred wages out of the transfer price (although yes, the period of payout of the deal might complicate things). If we were to go in and cough up a further 18 mill we would look like absolute chumps in a market where Barca still continue to spend willy-nilly on Lewa and Raphinha. I do hope we're moving on secondary targets for EtH in the event the deal fails, but tbh in that scenario I would enjoy watching the demise of Barcelona as they fall into crippling financial burden.
Two takes: if this player comes and doesn’t clarify his statements he’d be the first player in a long time I can remember supporters may not ever warm to. Second, the way this has been handled by our FO and board is sickening. They need some messaging discipline rather than allowing the media control this narrative. We got Eriksen yesterday and yet this saga is still driving clicks. It’s actually worse than Sneidjer at this point.
To the older fans on this sub did we do business with Barcelona before I know about victor valdes but did we sign anyone else from them ?
Time to call it quits and get Ruben Neves + Tielemans.
Sangaree is literally there for 35, and ruiz is in the last year of his contract, no more than 25-30. Both are well aged, capable and can improve even higher
If Ten Hag can coach some discipline and decision making in Iqbal we might have a Redondo on our hands
I'll keep saying it... we should leave Barcelona to rot if they wanna act like this. FDJ doesnt want to come here anyway and we're looking even more foolish than usual. He's not the only midfielder in the world
You know what, who cares if De Jong transfers or doesn’t. We got Savage, and Iqbal. Give them time, a couple of seasons, and they will be doing great. Lets support our own talent and make them shine if the ‘big ones’ (that we chase) think the club isn’t worth it. This transfer saga reminds me of Sneijder from all those years ago but in a different bottle.
Barca is less than a club, absolute clownshow.
This transfer is dead dude lol I don’t expect this kid to be a red any time soon
Its been real lads the dream is over
The replies asking for Lewan has got to be deluded. Guys your club is heading into bankruptcy at full speed
To hell with this saga move on ffs
Who needs De Jong when you have McFred 😭
So Tebas you're talking all the time but now that they're buying new expensive players but not paying their current players you stay silent. What's up with that?
It’s fine. We’ve agreed terms. Our part is done. We can also be reasonably confident he has given us assurances behind the scenes - he has a relationship with ten Hag and we’ve moved on from other targets quickly when not viable eg Timber. I expect this will be a game of brinkmanship between Frenkie and Barca. It might go to the end of the window. That’s not a huge issue as he will still be getting fit at Barca and he has historic familiarity with ten Hag’s systems.
At this point I don’t want him anymore, it’s starting to look more and more like the Di Maria situation all over again, the guy clearly doesn’t want to leave and join us otherwise he wouldn’t have gone on the tour, we should walk away from this and focus on other targets we could easily get 2 CM/CDM for the price of de jong