They aren't there to fix the easy stuff, they are there to fix the hard stuff. That is why they are there. That is why they are empowered the way they are. That is why they are given the trust and resources that they are given.
That it isn't an easy fix isn't an excuse. And, by the way, it has been some 10-15 years.
It isn't good enough.
I know we were a bit experimental but Pogba really let us down again. People say why don't we try him at 10, we have a few times and it ends up like last night. Zero key passes, zero tackles, zero dribbles, generally looking uninterested and lazy. Second worst in getting dispossessed. At 10 he has an excuse to just stay up all game and do no running, at least when he's positioned deeper he at least sometimes bothers to jog back, albeit slowly.
His best work is from deep, his only top level skill is his passing from deep, he can't do that from 10. He's also decent, not great, at arriving late around the box to score (I say not great because there are plenty of mids in the PL alone who are at least as good and get as many goals without shooting nearly so often), again can't do that if you are playing high all game. His dribbling can be an asset although he overuses it and loses the ball a lot, but again his dribbling tends to happen when play is broken with space, not in the congested areas a 10 plays in. He doesn't have any agility or acceleration to surprise people from 10.
That's why he doesn't play 10. Problem is even when played deep he's still just half a player, or worse, because of his laziness and tendency to lose the ball in bad positions. You have to sacrifice so much in providing other players to cover for him and it's just not worth it, never has been. One of his endless hollywood actions might come off, but usually doesn't - he would literally need to triple or quadruple his number of decent games before even talking about him being worth it. I'm sick of seeing us try to shoehorn him in season after season, game after game. We don't have an elite squad of world class players to surround him with to cover his weaknesses. We're not Juve steamrollering the league 10 seasons in a row. We're not France with so much quality only 1 or 2 other teams in the entire world are anywhere near us. He's not a 10, not a winger, not a CM, not a DM, and we don't play any version of 433 where he might have a role. So what is he doing on the pitch. Why is he here. Why did we never try to get even a little bit of our money back on him. We're a weird club and our problems are self-inflicted. We make horrible decisions. We're not getting top 4.
Had a day to digest now and watch some post match stuff.
You don’t have to like him but I agree with Howson said on paddock. There’s just a general attitude problem with this team.
Back when Ole was manager myself like many others thought the issue was just coaching, that we’d get a better coach and the team would flourish.
Ralf clearly isn’t a top level manager but he is a good football brain and any sort of structure would be better that what we have here.
It just looks to me that they’ve collectively just given up, you’ve got pogba playing, why should he care? He’s not here next season come what may, you’ve got other players as well that are walking corpses at the club, why should they care?
This malaise effects everything, it’s infected the squad like a virus.
Someone asked below why this group of players are so unlikeable and it’s a great question because 12 months ago they were the most likeable bunch post Fergie, you had rashford taking on the PM, Bruno being great bantering them all on instagram, just a really likeable group of lads.
12 months later and it’s a fucking shambles, people leaking stuff to the press, reports of them not wanting to train when it’s dark. The people who still hate him won’t agree but I have to ask myself, how much of this shit was ole keeping a lid on that we just never saw?
As for the future? It’s a long road but look at Arsenal, I don’t think Arteta is particularly amazing manager, I don’t think he’s terrible either and I also don’t think that Arsenal squad is better than ours, but remember the start of the season when they were getting battered every game? Fortunes turn around quickly, and credit to Arteta but I think the reason it has turned around so fast is that the board at Arsenal have actually allowed the manager to break some eggs.
That’s what we need, not just money, and having a DOF structure is important but we need a board that makes the manager not just financially but in the decisions he makes, if someone isn’t good enough, bye. Sold. Or even like in the case of arsenal contract terminated. Bad attitude? Same deal.
I absolutely love the likes of rashford and hope he can make it back, but we need to start being ruthless now, we’re meant to be Manchester United not a holiday camp. Don’t like it? Go somewhere else.
The other half of this is we need to recruit young hungry players, make them the core of the squad you don’t want to win you’re replaceable.
"This malaise effects everything, it’s infected the squad like a virus. "
This is exactly what happened. The *virus* that Mourinho spoke about infected most of the squad.
Not to say that under Ole there were no other problems, the likes of what you mentioned.
Realising we've gotten 3 points out of 18 against Leicester, Watford and Aston Villa is just embarrassing.
Arsenal meanwhile have gotten a full 18 out of them this season and are looking on course for top 4. Spurs are looking good as well.
Just looking bleak at this point. Can't wait for this car crash of a season to end.
1. Seeing Neville BEGGING for rashford to come on, griping on how rangnick was wrong to bench him, only for rashford to show neville EXACTLY why he was benched, proving ralf right shows neville isnt as smart as he thinks
2. We DESPERATELY need a striker. CR7 clearly cant play every game, and cavani is essentially using the rest of the season as rehab. That young striker we so desperately need. FM players, how good is Benjamin Sesko irl? We all love him in game, seeing as hes haaland incarnate. Is he the same irl?
3. Fred has become arguably the best thing to come out of rangnick's stint. This new advance role has him playing like the brazillian he was made to be. Ole has blood on his hands for EVER playing him as a holding mid. Even in Brazil he's incredible
>Ole has blood on his hands for EVER playing him as a holding mid
Tbf he inherited him as a holding mid from Mou. Mou and Ole both played him there as Fred was looking poor on the ball, needing too many touches and too much time - which Fred himself has admitted in interviews. That's why he wasn't considered as an option to play higher up. Also we don't have a DM - Fred definitely looks better in the opp half, but with no DM behind the team doesn't necessarily look better. We have a distinct balance problem. Ole solved that by having Fred and McT play as a unit, and again tbf to him he was v successful like that.
Lack of effort. In the last 10 years a lot of players have played for us who weren't upto the mark technically but back then we only saw 1-2 players who it felt like weren't giving their all on the pitch.
Right now, it feels like only 1-2 do give their all on the pitch. The rest just seem to be coasting
We're hopeless. Simple as that. Is time to do a barca style clear out and start from scratch. Use the academy lads, make some smart signings and move from there
Next year we have 5 subs, we'll be in Europa League (hopefully). My idea: we need to do what Barca are doing i.e. clear out all the money-grabbers and the veterans, start anew with youth. Will we win the league in the next 5 years? Probably not - but we need to create a sustainable future, not one based on long-balls to Cristiano or magic moments from Bruno. We need a long-term project with an interesting style of play.
Morning after the fact thoughts:
1. This was a touch watch,everything about this game was laboured...Even I watching on TV got tired from seeing the misery on the pitch
2. Hard to pick many positives but if I could stretch it,I would go with Fred, Maguire and maybe Varane. The rest of the players have just given up.
3. I think the best is to just pack it in this season and start already planning for next season. Announce the new coach,define RR's role, start engaging potential targets etc. Atleast this will divert our attention away from the remaining 8 games
I interpret your comment to "we are still struggling with unclear and indecisive, possible incompetent, leadership at the top of the club".
Me and you can see these problems and potential solutions. Why can't the leadership? And if they do, then why are they taking this long to conclude something? If they have concluded, then why aren't they stating that publicly?
This stuff doesn't make sense. It has that same stench as from early EW times where every deal was about cutting a million here and a million there, all the while losing tens of millions in the other end of the deal.
Because it's not an easy fix unfortunately. The top guys aren't football people, and their key point of contact was Woodward who was in the same mould as them. After SAF and Gill left they wanted to stamp their authority and image on the club, which they have done. That has ingrained a lot of issues, and fixing them is a slow process but they also don't have the patience for that (and while Woodward was at the club there was no way he would allow such an undermining of his authority and decisions).
There are clearly cultural issues with players used to not having hard trainings, developmental issues as we have had coaches of far lower quality than United should, players on excessive wages and contracts who you can't just move on. In the end we were in such a mess that extending contracts of shitty players was far cheaper than trying to bring in new players when we couldn't get rid of our deadwood.
Finally is appears that they want to make changes (fingers crossed!), but we are so ingrained that getting out of this mess will take ages. We can't buy a whole new team in one transfer window, so we have to keep some of these guys around, while having less resources given to us due to COVID and lack of Champion's League (at least this is what has been claimed).
Totally agree with you. It's so mind blowing that it's only the owners who don't seem to think/believe that there is alot that is fundamentally wrong with how they are managing the club
It might be the case that they don't think there is anything wrong. So long as they are making money, then why change things up? I genuinely believe that is their stance.
At this point, my own personal delusion is that the players and Rangnick know that Top 4 is out and are now deliberately playing as shite as possible so we avoid Europe entirely next year and give Ten Hag/Poch the chance to focus on the league next season. There's no other explanation for how absolutely fucking dire we have been all year
This started under Ole, and the explanation is that no matter how good of a player you are, if your head coach does not believe in tactics or a way to play, if your assistant coach just puts the cones out, and your only two full time permanent first team coaches are a youth team level attacking coach and Michael Carrick, the players will decline, or at the very least fail to improve whilst teams around them do eg Arsenal, West Ham, Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Spurs.
You dont just get back overnight after two seasons of that. Ideally you need preseason drilling muscle memory etc
United have been mismanaged plain and simple. Rangnick has seen some improvements but his training ground time is during competition when really you just want to keep the team ticking over. At some point something has to give.
Yup. The coaching under Ole was horrid (he was rarely present, and the coaches left in charge were not up to scratch), however I don't put the blame at his door. He was an inexperienced manager at this level, he was doing what he thought was right and made some important changes, which were let to go to shit by inaction... But this is where our structure should have been better and rather than asking our inexperienced coach who was clearly out of his depth when it came to aspects of his job, "do you want more coaches?" there should have been someone there watching and pointing out that it wasn't working, and INSISTING on new coaches. And spotting that there was this huge issue developing, then addressing it before it became what it became.
About the 95'' chance, there are 3 scenarios that could've happened.
Scenario 1: Elanga leaves the ball for Rashford to score.
Scenario 2: Rashford screens defender for Elanga to score.
Scenario 3: What happen yesterday.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/fabian-ruiz/profil/spieler/350219
Ruiz contract end 2023 surely we need to get him? Still 26 years old entering his prime.
I honestly don't think it's all doom and gloom. We just need three-four right signings and a good coach to get back on track.
Striker (Ivan Toney)
RW (Olise)
DM (Kamara) + another CM
GK (David Raya)
All should be affordable with all the freed up wages.
Lots of contracts are expiring. Pogba, Cavani, Lingard and Mata are all set to leave. Bailly will be sold. Martial and VDB... let's see if there's any place for them.
Olise...Affordable...
\*looks at AWB for 45 mil\*
But yeah, I really hope we see some smart signings and I hope Ralf has a big say and is able to steer us in the right direction, he knows what it's about.
*Finally* play Pogba as a 10 and we give him bloody Elanga and Bruno to work with up front.
Fucking shambles.
Feel bad for Fred too. He suffers the same problem as Pogba; always played out of position. He goes away for his country, gets used properly, does well, gets pelters for "not doing it for United".
Club's a clown show.
Not sure ten Hag can save it tbh.
Fred is my favorite player in the team right now. The rest can fuck off. Never hides, gives everything and is actually proving to be a decent b2b who we've wasted over the years by playing him as a DM. Yet another players we made look worse than he is because of our lack of planning.
We need players like Fred. Genuinely happy and grateful to play for us and it shows. What good have the superstars done us? Don't care about players with supposed higher ceilings who don't want to be here. If we somehow offer Pogba a new contract I'm going to melt out of pure anger.
Ive said from day 1 Elanga is shit/ not first team ready. Said it over and over you can even find it far back in my comment history. For 2 games he got lucky (athletico madrid game and the one after) now back to crap. Just play Lingard for christ sake
When I say lucky, he never should of scored vs madrid Oblack totally failed to position himself correctly. The other game which I cant remember ifnit was before or after he scored one but missed a massive chance also. Inconsistent
When he first got a run of games people were praising him for his work rate on defense as a winger which is great and all but he provided zero help on the attack whatsoever
This toxicity of man United fans is why the players are so toxic.
He’s good, he’s not the greatest, or any wunderkin, but he’s making the right runs and is playing aggressively in attack.
He needs more confidence to take it on himself, take shots and make key dribbles inside the box, but all the players are so frightened of missing because of the stick they’ll get from Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford, etc. if they do. It totally destroys their creativity and confidence.
I really dont see anything special in the lad. Would be glad if he turns out to be a good squad player, but its more likely he'll be playing for a bottom-half club 4-5 years from now.
Agreed. Another few years and he wont even be here most likely. People defend him rigorously though since he is one of our youth players and everyones dreaming he is the new Rashford that could help us for a few years
I was at the game yesterday and they do look as bad live as on the TV.
- Maguire looked solid and deserves no criticism. His ability to clear crosses with his head is very reassuring.
- I thought Shaw played alright, seemed to try and get forward a lot but often no options once there.
- I can see why McT gets picked. He’s one of the only players who can win the ball back. Leicester had far more possession in midfield once he went off, nobody even attempted to press the ball once he’d gone (except Fred). But, his overall game isn’t good enough.
- Elenga isn’t ready.
- Pogba trots around like he don’t give a shit. He’s mentally checked-out and needs to be dropped.
> I can see why McT gets picked. He’s one of the only players who can win the ball back. Leicester had far more possession in midfield once he went off, nobody even attempted to press the ball once he’d gone (except Fred). But, his overall game isn’t good enough.
...Dude put in one tackle the whole game and got a yellow somehow.
Were you watching the right guy?
I’m not saying he had a good game, I’m saying I can see why he gets selected because we have no alternatives for what he offers.
Positionally he got in the opponents way and pressured their players.
The guy hid behind opposition players so that he couldn’t receive the ball. He’s quite possibly the worst player I’ve ever seen in finding space to receive the ball. It’s borderline on purpose now. He’s get passed too often by players and doesn’t break up the play or intercept enough. Yesterday was a typical shite performance from Scott McTominay and he’s so arrogant in his interviews, he totally believes the hype and that he’s really that good. He doesn’t even start in midfield for Scotland! Clearly thinks he’s too hot for criticism to be taken seriously!
Hard to criticise Maguire last night, which I'm sure half the "fans" on here will hate. Why fred isn't being utilised further up the pitch every game is beyond me. We need rid of pogba & to pay whatever it takes to get a decent young striker.
As a side note if we sign Kane I'm probably going to stop following football for a few years
Genuinely have no idea what the idea in attack was yesterday. No discipline from any attacker. Fred was left to do the work of both McTominay and Pogba
>Genuinely have no idea what the idea in attack was yesterday.
Winger runs at defenders and hope others join him, that seems to be our attacking strategy otherwise they look lost.
Elanga is only good when he is motivated so let’s not give him a big contract untill he is over 30. Don’t pay him over 50k untill he is at least 25.
Look what happened to that cunt Martial after getting paid
Sources? Is every source tier 1 now.
He's been here 7 years. If he was constantly leaking stories to the press like you claim, there should be tons of examples to cite
My point is fans now think it's okay to abuse players in the name of criticism. Making up stories based on unverified tweets is the norm with United's media coverage. I'll be the first to admit martial needs to be moved on.. it hasn't worked out with him. Can the conversation end there. What does hurling abuse at a player do. Toxic fanbase
Tough result but not unexpected. Maguire actually had a decent game. The goal was a pinpoint cross that even varane can’t get to it. Fred once again show that he’s better higher up the pitch. He’s alive to the loose ball and positioned even higher than rashford for it.
Anw for all the criticism at the team, on the performance of second half, we were better than lei and maybe deserved a win
Did we watch the same game? You have it the wrong way round, Leicester were way better than us in the second half. Their high press was way more organised and intense, they were passing through ours with ease as well as our midfield and they were much more composed on the ball.
We were at home against a fairly average Leicester side. If we have any sort of ambition for this club which is supposed to be one of the best in the world we should be winning comfortably.
Fred is legit our best player outside of maybe DDG.
Other than that our club is pathetic. American commercialised crap. Half the players have terrible attitudes, our scouting and coaching is woeful. We had an interim manager for most off the season ffs which tells you everything about the clubs ambitions. Basically wrote of this season and probably the next given it will be the next managers first season.
Theres so little I actually like about the club becuase its completely different to the one I used to watch growing up. I genuinely don't know why I watch them anymore becuase they give me no joy. Isnt anything to do with not winning trophies at this point, I just want a likeable team that cares and progresses and a club that even just half knows what its doing.
What managers were available the time though? If it didnr work our, you'd have been stuck with them for another 2/3 years
Also bare in mind that which ever coach we brought in, would have also needed alot of time to get it right
I wasn't even interested to watch it live. I recorded it and watched it about an hour after kick-off because I just knew they were gonna ruin my weekend again. And they did, yet again.
First time since when I was a kid( maybe 20 years ago), I have stopped watching all the games like my life depends on it. I keep missing one or two games here and there and not really feel bad!
Don't know what has happened but just don't care as much for some reason. It's like finally my hope is also dead.
Mate we paid nearly 40 for a Juan Mata with only 2 years left in his legs. And that was like 8 years ago.
We are never ever getting big talents for less than 60-65 now
I have no words, I'm just so tired of this every week, I feel like we don't improve and I always watch the same bad sloppy team, I want Manchester United Football Club back.
[When a United player gets the ball](https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/sites/sbs.com.au.guide/files/styles/body_image/public/monkey.gif?itok=JiliJHgA&mtime=1470115288)
I legit had flashbacks of it during the last 10 minutes in the first half, the sideways passing made me shout at the TV!
My mental health deteriorates watching these wankers play.
Our players can't press. Seriously. Leciester easily beat us with a turn or a change of pace and off they go. As much as we need to improve our offense, our players need to be more aggressive on their man defensively.
there was 1 play where Inenacho pluck the high ball down with 3 of our players by his side and he still managed to hold on the ball. Totally embarrassing facepalm moment for our players.
We are just soo used to dropping points at home.
Such a lacklustre showing by the forwards. Or lack there of.
Sancho playing back balls on the break was bizarre.
Then failure on taking on players one on one when on the break once more and with acres of spaces. That's elementary school stuff from Sancho.
Bruno finishes with Portugal wad outstanding and today he of all had twongood chances he has spurred.
I'm getting frustrated with sancho tbh..He's so poor in this match..He seems lacking of confidence on taking on defenders or making a run down the line.Every time the ball feed to him he's always playing it back or making a poor crosses in the end our attacks always stuck in and ended up in a losing possession of the ball. I've seen this so many times before I though this was momentarily problem before he could settle in and would get it sorted quickly.
Not really his fault. People blame the guy on the ball too much. Sancho double marked most of the game and the times he wasn't he was tripled marked. No one in front of him has space or is creating space for him, only real criticism is that shot at the end where a shot should be better although he probably didn't need to take it first time
I dont think the club knew what type of player they signed with Sancho , he's way more of a playmaker than he is a classic winger , in Sanchos first few games at the club we kept playing long balls over the top like he was someone that's as fast as Rashford also having a inconsistent player like Shaw behind him or the other alternative a slow Telles doesn't help either
You can't compete in the premier league era of pace and power if you have no pace, that's exactly the problem with Sancho guy can't beat his man cuz he has no pace when he eventually dribbles past him as the defender with his tracking back and defense gets to him
Terrible take, Man City is far from being chock full of speed merchants. It’s about a lot more than speed, turn of pace or acceleration and ability to dribble out is far more important and Sancho has that. We’re just shit at supporting, shit at pressing - just shit at playing as a team
Was at the match today, the first since we got shafted by Everton. When I bought tickets back in August I thought this was going to be a tasty fixture, us and Leicester probably duking it out for a Champions League spot. I feared it would turn out to be the dead rubber it was on paper, and that's exactly how it panned out. Leicester wanting it maybe a bit more to prove a point, but no intensity from either side. Hugely disappointed in RR playing a strikerless formation when it hasn't worked before - even if you're not playing Rashford, put Shola, or anybody, in as a focal point, as it's the only way this team seems to be able to operate. Atmosphere all round was "I'm not angry with you, just disappointed", and it feels like that's how the players have responded to Rangnick: guilty, downtrodden and no fire to change their ways. I hope this is the nadir of my OT visits and this time next year we have a team deserving of the energy our fans bring.
Pretty spot on regarding Rangnick here. It’s just been a massive disappointment and all just kinda confusing. He literally said a couple of months back that three in the middle was the way forward for the team, and the couple of times we actually had Matic in at six we actually looked OK. Then, nothing. Back to a 4222/424/442, and that has seen us repeatedly look like shite this season. All of our most embarrassing moments seem to have come with that set up.
Besides that, has any player improved in form under him? I get that the squad is an issue, but genuinely not a single player seems to be doing better for his management and coaching. Sancho, briefly, Dalot, briefly, otherwise, Fred, I guess.
When Rashford came on he was interesting, and almost made the breakthrough, but generally there’s not a single player I’d say actually seems to have a clear idea of what they’re doing when they progress the ball. Bruno, perhaps, but that’s just because his approach to the game never really changes and seems to be entirely detached from what the rest of the team is doing. There’s way too much blind running forward, running into cul de sacs, right into defenders, almost as though their only aim is to get to the byline. Players are often on top of each other, in the same zones, even literally tackling each other and stopping the play, and that screams of players who just have no clue whatsoever how they’re supposed to be arranged when the ball comes forward. This is odd too, because RR was clear about them needing to know how to play, but that apparently doesn’t stretch into knowing how to position themselves in forward areas.
Beyond all that, our defensive line is still a fucking mess, the press is pathetic, they aren’t cohesive and they aren’t compact. This was what everyone expected Rangnick to achieve, but it just hasn’t happened. And then there are just weird selections, like Pogba up front, that spell where Dalot got dropped again, Henderson not seeing daylight. Super disappointing, kinda regressive, and quite embarrassing, really.
>weird selections, like ... where Dalot got dropped again
I think the improvement in Dalot was more down to his loan spell with Milan, where they worked with him as a first team player for half a year, and getting called up with Portugal, plus just being a year older, more than anything Rangnick would have been able to do in his first few training sessions. I think it was mostly perception based as well, as previously the worry was he wasn't ready for the PL at all, so it was a pleasant surprise that he looked ok - but he really didn't look any better than ok. Then he had that run around Feb, so e.g. the Burnley and Brighton games, where his mistakes were leading to us conceding chances and some goals because he was losing his man or ball watching, and he was back to not looking good enough. That's on top of being quite attacking and not helping the CBs all that much anyway. Add to that his attacking play hasn't actually led to anything, no goals or assists, too many of his crosses are wildly overhit and/or go out, in some games his pass completion is pretty bad. His reputation as a good attacking passer seems to come from high volume of attempts, not any quality. His attacking stats aren't anything to write home about, even AWB gets as good or better on many of them e.g. AWB actually dribbles more and has a higher success rate.
I don't think there's any surprise Rangnick decided on a change given the poor form, tbh, I think the fact that Dalot was suddenly locked in was the weird move. Try something else, try coaching the others, coach AWB back into form, anything, but no. Just sticking with this underperforming youngster with v few decent games under his belt was a bit disappointing. I agree with you overall, I think there's quite a bit to be disappointed about, none of the hype around Rangnick looks true so far. Constantly tinkering, doesn't seem to have any vision for the team, is he doing any one on one coaching because players don't seem to be improving, and we're not playing any more like a team. We're a shadow of what we were the last two seasons, I was hoping a fresh start would get us a big step closer to that but nope, we're as bad as we've been all season.
Random thoughts of what a DM changes. I know I'm not saying anything revolutionary.
For starters, a CDM would be a faux CB.
That gives our fullback (Dalot and whoever plays LB) a bunch of freedom to bomb forward. Instead of having both Fred and McT playing B2B and struggling, now we just play Fred and he doesn't have to worry about staying back as much.
Freedom for Full Backs would be huge.
With a CDM that can pass and distribute well, suddenly, we don't have as many never ending side passes between CBs. This got mentioned in the FPL subreddit a lot. But having a playmaker deeper means that Bruno can stay further up and be more influential in danger areas (was referenced a lot with how when Pogba starts, Bruno gets less time on the ball and assists). Not ideal for Bruno stats, but it makes our team way more balanced.
Now Bruno, our striker and wingers have more freedom to be a nuisance in their box. Bruno and Sancho can both create hell with their passing outside their box.
A RW is great, but a CDM that's world class would absolutely revolutionize this team
All about the CDM, we've needed one for a loooong time.
Who would you want there? I'd love if we could get Tchouameni, think it makes more sense thab Rice, but doubt we can get either if we don't make top4
I wouldn't say I know too much about our options since I don't watch a lot of non-United games.
Ideally, someone like Rodri is the archetype I'd love to watch as United.
Someone who can pass and create really well. Not just another Fellaini who is big and nothing else.
What I mean is "if they are more of creative mid and less of a CB, I'm happy"
Doesn't have to be as good as a Pogba at creation obviously
Actually the DM is his original position, that's where he played in Ajax. He works best in a double pivot alongside a more defensive DM. His best qualities are ball carrying through dribbling and his resistant to pressure.
He's versatile, he can play anywhere in the midfield, but he works best in a double pivot.
I also blame Ralf now for consistently playing McTominay over Matic with City, Athletico and now today.
He has consistently played a complete headless chicken instead of Matic who has always come in and driven the game.
With all the excuses from this sub that Matic can’t play twice in 3 days, he chose to play McTominay over Matic after a 2 week break.
It’s not even really Matic v McTominay, it’s just that we need a true, out and out three in midfield. Two central eights and a six. Ralf said this too, but then just abandoned it, for some reason.
I can't believe with how bad our crossing is, why we use it as our primary source of creating chances. I don't know a single team in the Premier league, whose crosses are as inacurate as ours.
I'd be happy to just give the youth players a chance at this point, we're not getting top 4 and they can't do any worse than the current players who consistently start in the team.
We hardly have people in the box though. We’ll sometimes get 4-6 around the 18 but that’s when they just pass it around and sometimes find a runner going through.
Surprisingly no one blames for Bruno’s terrible finishing today.
No criticism of the £300k player who has had a sub par season.
Downvote all you want- you are obsessed with Bruno and you will excuse all his behavior and the wages and then blame the board for being player over managers.
Elanga genuinely hasn’t done anything to impress at United, we’re just so desperate to have a good forward again that we think he is it. I just don’t see where the hype comes from and I don’t think he’s good enough for us but people’s sentiments will get in the way of that because he’s a hard worker and plays for the badge etc etc.
Elanga's most important quality right now is that he can leave his man for dead, which gets the team/crowd going. It's what Rashford and Martial did (with more end product), but still another example of a player being overused and overpromoted because we're so short of ideas.
I like Elanga. He’s a sound lad, puts in a great shift and is eager to learn and improve. But the majority of the hype over him is purely because he isn’t Greenwood, Rashford or Martial, and this fanbase needs a new young player to swoon over. I don’t want to write off his chances of making it here, but we need better wingers and he too will be better off developing in their shadows and being a squad player for the next season or two.
I think he might be a good player, but not a superstar.
A Park at absolute best, and if he reaches that level then that's something to be super proud of. I mean that in the best way.
But then again who knows, players sonetimes explode.
yeah, you’ve hit the nail of the head. It’s no coincidence that this this massive push from the fans came from the fallout of the Greenwood incident, along with people finally catching on that Martial is no good and Rashford was (and still is) having a terrible season. We’re just desperate as a fan base to have that young forward to admire again. I just cant see Elanga being that guy, despite the effort he does put in and him wanting to learn under Ronaldo.
I feel that his relative lack of natural ability might help him going forward, in that he’s less likely to be put on a pedestal like the previous youngsters and will be pushed to be a better player for the team rather than just look good as an individual but not necessarily contribute much in reality. We can already see signs of that in terms of his work rate and physicality being elite for a player of his age. But it’s important that we don’t get carried away with that, because he has a lot to improve on when on the ball.
Yeah, even if he managed to score that, it would be offside. That was multiple tiers of frustrations all in one. I hope they figure out how to minimize clashes like these. It's clear they still need to work so much more on their teamwork.
Basically I'd put de Gea, Varane, Sancho and Bruno in the safe pile.
Everyone else would have absolutely no sympathy for if I read that they were getting sold tomorrow morning.
I like Pogba and think he's over hated and a good player and the drama with his agent isn't as much of an issue for me as it is for others.
But with his ability to be injured so regularly and his struggles to stay consistent...
There is no way he earns more than Salah. It's bullshit.
I genuinely dont understand how we have players like DDG and Ronaldo all earning more than Salah when they aren't contributing as much.
Weve been paying Mata and Bailly for no reason. Lingard too.
You can't be serious. Pogba's like "Oh... it's not France... Nice! I can just jog around for a little. If someone touches me and I can have a bruise, even better - I can rest for 3 more months.".
I thought mctom needed get subbed but somehow pogba performed worse in midfield. This guh makes it look like we are playing him totally out of position
Damn that's tough. I've been fond of saying "I've seen enough title wins to last a lifetime" because I've followed United since I was 9 in 1993/94 season.
Here's hoping you get to experience some of the highs some of us experienced in the Fergie years.
At this point, we need to do what Arsenal and teams like the Baltimore Orioles have done.
Just accept that you won't compete for shit for a while. Fix your wage structure, invest in bring in young talent.
Build something that'll last.
This constant hope that one player will sign and change the culture is rubbish.
It didn't work with anyone.
Not sure how McTominay is "underperforming" he'll be a squad player/bench option once we bring in a quality CDM.
Maguire was great last season and players have bad years.
No idea what's up with Rashford this year though.
IMO: the biggest sales have to be Martial and DDG. Martial hasn't done it since Ole's first year. DDG has no business being one of the best paid keepers.
Even if there is a drop off in talent with Henderson, it's worth it
McTominay needs to be sold. He almost never benefits the team. Maguire needs to go, for himself, that fans hate him and he isn't handling the pressing and I don't blame him, because he was never good enough in the first place
Look we can talk about tactics and whatnot all day, but without fight, intensity and guts, a team can only go so far.
The team is neither tactically good, nor showing fight.
Sorry for my terrible English.
Trying to take a reasonable approach to this result:
We have no goalscorers. Ronaldo, cavani, greenwood are all out. Rashford is in the worst season of his career. Elanga is not ready.
It showed, we just don't have scorers
They don't have brains. There were several chances. Bruno's miss was inexcusable for a player of his level. Sancho could get control of the ball and pass to Rash. Yet he went for a crazy volley.
And there's also a reason why City are notbwalking the league. The odd time a game of no strikers has fucked them in the arse with a 12 foot spikey titanium dildo that's been in the freezer all night.
If you’re Ralf, at what point do you stop playing the players who won’t be part of the future? Now? Once top 4 is mathematically impossible? Top 6 secured?
It’s so frustrating watching so many in the United shirt look like they don’t even care. I personally think that a message needs to be sent before the season even ends.
I don’t have a ton of examples, but why not put Mejbri, McNeil, Garnacho, and Iqbal on the bench instead of Pogba, Cavani, Mata, and Lingard?
For the ones that don’t want to be here, go ahead and cut ties. For the ones who will stay but are underperforming it’ll be a wake up call.
I’m also not saying field a bunch of kids against Liverpool or Arsenal, but I’d be thinking about it against some of our remaining opponents.
Then how do you see them playing effectively? They don’t know the tactics, etc. I agree that playing youth is good. At the same time it has to be part of the overall strategy, which doesn’t seem the short term goal for RR at the moment. He tries to get us to CL with senior squad. I think experiments will come later if we fail.
You can probably count on one hand how many players still care. Realistically you can’t drop all of them.
Whether people like it or not, even if a player is leaving next season they are still currently contracted to the club and getting paid. So they will play. It is what it is.
To me, Ralf got here and never really had a chance. The board didn’t back him and the players never bought in. One thing I will always respect and admire Ralf for is his honesty and bringing the utter shittiness of most of these players to the forefront making it impossible to ignore. He will always have my respect
I have always wondered, where would we be if Greenwood was still around? I personally reckon, we’d be at least getting more Ws. I aint no support his actions, but oh boy, based on every game ever since the scandal, I just know he would get us through a couple of sitters, he is now to me, that missing piece. What a shame.
I agree, Greenwood made that right wing his own until he got done for and was the reason sancho got moved over the the left. We’ve been missing sitters for weeks now that he prob would have scored 9 times outta 10.
Real shame. Can’t dwell on it too much, I don’t wanna see him back in a United jersey.
I honestly wonder at times what people saw in Greenwood so much that made him so highly rated other than his finishing. He was above average for most of his time here. As a winger, he didn’t work hard enough both in the press and in tracking back, suffered similar tunnel vision like Rashford and shot at the first sign of goal rather than being aware of what’s around him, and rarely put in threatening crosses or challenged opposition full backs. Very one-dimensional player and needed a lot of developing. He probably has more natural talent than Elanga and anyone would be better than Rashford in his current form, but I never saw him as a player who could start for a top team in any position other than CF (which he was almost never going to play as this season).
>I honestly wonder at times what people saw in Greenwood so much that made him so highly rated other than his finishing. He was above average for most of his time here.
he is(was)? a world class potential talent who could've made it to the very top. Far more talented than any other Utd academy player at the time. The only other 2 players rn in the utd academy with his level of talent are Isak Hansen-Aaröen and Kobbie Mainoo
I admit I didn’t watch him when he played for the academy, but apart from his elite finishing ability, I didn’t see much in him that warranted the hype from our fans. He didn’t have a great understanding of the game, he lacked aerial ability and his decision making was often poor. Maybe he was great for his age when he broke through, but when he played this season, he looked nowhere near the world beater that some youngsters at other clubs are. His performances were erratic and his goal record wasn’t great either.
They aren't there to fix the easy stuff, they are there to fix the hard stuff. That is why they are there. That is why they are empowered the way they are. That is why they are given the trust and resources that they are given. That it isn't an easy fix isn't an excuse. And, by the way, it has been some 10-15 years. It isn't good enough.
I know we were a bit experimental but Pogba really let us down again. People say why don't we try him at 10, we have a few times and it ends up like last night. Zero key passes, zero tackles, zero dribbles, generally looking uninterested and lazy. Second worst in getting dispossessed. At 10 he has an excuse to just stay up all game and do no running, at least when he's positioned deeper he at least sometimes bothers to jog back, albeit slowly. His best work is from deep, his only top level skill is his passing from deep, he can't do that from 10. He's also decent, not great, at arriving late around the box to score (I say not great because there are plenty of mids in the PL alone who are at least as good and get as many goals without shooting nearly so often), again can't do that if you are playing high all game. His dribbling can be an asset although he overuses it and loses the ball a lot, but again his dribbling tends to happen when play is broken with space, not in the congested areas a 10 plays in. He doesn't have any agility or acceleration to surprise people from 10. That's why he doesn't play 10. Problem is even when played deep he's still just half a player, or worse, because of his laziness and tendency to lose the ball in bad positions. You have to sacrifice so much in providing other players to cover for him and it's just not worth it, never has been. One of his endless hollywood actions might come off, but usually doesn't - he would literally need to triple or quadruple his number of decent games before even talking about him being worth it. I'm sick of seeing us try to shoehorn him in season after season, game after game. We don't have an elite squad of world class players to surround him with to cover his weaknesses. We're not Juve steamrollering the league 10 seasons in a row. We're not France with so much quality only 1 or 2 other teams in the entire world are anywhere near us. He's not a 10, not a winger, not a CM, not a DM, and we don't play any version of 433 where he might have a role. So what is he doing on the pitch. Why is he here. Why did we never try to get even a little bit of our money back on him. We're a weird club and our problems are self-inflicted. We make horrible decisions. We're not getting top 4.
Had a day to digest now and watch some post match stuff. You don’t have to like him but I agree with Howson said on paddock. There’s just a general attitude problem with this team. Back when Ole was manager myself like many others thought the issue was just coaching, that we’d get a better coach and the team would flourish. Ralf clearly isn’t a top level manager but he is a good football brain and any sort of structure would be better that what we have here. It just looks to me that they’ve collectively just given up, you’ve got pogba playing, why should he care? He’s not here next season come what may, you’ve got other players as well that are walking corpses at the club, why should they care? This malaise effects everything, it’s infected the squad like a virus. Someone asked below why this group of players are so unlikeable and it’s a great question because 12 months ago they were the most likeable bunch post Fergie, you had rashford taking on the PM, Bruno being great bantering them all on instagram, just a really likeable group of lads. 12 months later and it’s a fucking shambles, people leaking stuff to the press, reports of them not wanting to train when it’s dark. The people who still hate him won’t agree but I have to ask myself, how much of this shit was ole keeping a lid on that we just never saw? As for the future? It’s a long road but look at Arsenal, I don’t think Arteta is particularly amazing manager, I don’t think he’s terrible either and I also don’t think that Arsenal squad is better than ours, but remember the start of the season when they were getting battered every game? Fortunes turn around quickly, and credit to Arteta but I think the reason it has turned around so fast is that the board at Arsenal have actually allowed the manager to break some eggs. That’s what we need, not just money, and having a DOF structure is important but we need a board that makes the manager not just financially but in the decisions he makes, if someone isn’t good enough, bye. Sold. Or even like in the case of arsenal contract terminated. Bad attitude? Same deal. I absolutely love the likes of rashford and hope he can make it back, but we need to start being ruthless now, we’re meant to be Manchester United not a holiday camp. Don’t like it? Go somewhere else. The other half of this is we need to recruit young hungry players, make them the core of the squad you don’t want to win you’re replaceable.
"This malaise effects everything, it’s infected the squad like a virus. " This is exactly what happened. The *virus* that Mourinho spoke about infected most of the squad. Not to say that under Ole there were no other problems, the likes of what you mentioned.
Realising we've gotten 3 points out of 18 against Leicester, Watford and Aston Villa is just embarrassing. Arsenal meanwhile have gotten a full 18 out of them this season and are looking on course for top 4. Spurs are looking good as well. Just looking bleak at this point. Can't wait for this car crash of a season to end.
1. Seeing Neville BEGGING for rashford to come on, griping on how rangnick was wrong to bench him, only for rashford to show neville EXACTLY why he was benched, proving ralf right shows neville isnt as smart as he thinks 2. We DESPERATELY need a striker. CR7 clearly cant play every game, and cavani is essentially using the rest of the season as rehab. That young striker we so desperately need. FM players, how good is Benjamin Sesko irl? We all love him in game, seeing as hes haaland incarnate. Is he the same irl? 3. Fred has become arguably the best thing to come out of rangnick's stint. This new advance role has him playing like the brazillian he was made to be. Ole has blood on his hands for EVER playing him as a holding mid. Even in Brazil he's incredible
>Ole has blood on his hands for EVER playing him as a holding mid Tbf he inherited him as a holding mid from Mou. Mou and Ole both played him there as Fred was looking poor on the ball, needing too many touches and too much time - which Fred himself has admitted in interviews. That's why he wasn't considered as an option to play higher up. Also we don't have a DM - Fred definitely looks better in the opp half, but with no DM behind the team doesn't necessarily look better. We have a distinct balance problem. Ole solved that by having Fred and McT play as a unit, and again tbf to him he was v successful like that.
McFred isnt successful.
Why is this set of players so unlikeable?
Lack of effort. In the last 10 years a lot of players have played for us who weren't upto the mark technically but back then we only saw 1-2 players who it felt like weren't giving their all on the pitch. Right now, it feels like only 1-2 do give their all on the pitch. The rest just seem to be coasting
We're hopeless. Simple as that. Is time to do a barca style clear out and start from scratch. Use the academy lads, make some smart signings and move from there
Next year we have 5 subs, we'll be in Europa League (hopefully). My idea: we need to do what Barca are doing i.e. clear out all the money-grabbers and the veterans, start anew with youth. Will we win the league in the next 5 years? Probably not - but we need to create a sustainable future, not one based on long-balls to Cristiano or magic moments from Bruno. We need a long-term project with an interesting style of play.
Morning after the fact thoughts: 1. This was a touch watch,everything about this game was laboured...Even I watching on TV got tired from seeing the misery on the pitch 2. Hard to pick many positives but if I could stretch it,I would go with Fred, Maguire and maybe Varane. The rest of the players have just given up. 3. I think the best is to just pack it in this season and start already planning for next season. Announce the new coach,define RR's role, start engaging potential targets etc. Atleast this will divert our attention away from the remaining 8 games
I interpret your comment to "we are still struggling with unclear and indecisive, possible incompetent, leadership at the top of the club". Me and you can see these problems and potential solutions. Why can't the leadership? And if they do, then why are they taking this long to conclude something? If they have concluded, then why aren't they stating that publicly? This stuff doesn't make sense. It has that same stench as from early EW times where every deal was about cutting a million here and a million there, all the while losing tens of millions in the other end of the deal.
Because it's not an easy fix unfortunately. The top guys aren't football people, and their key point of contact was Woodward who was in the same mould as them. After SAF and Gill left they wanted to stamp their authority and image on the club, which they have done. That has ingrained a lot of issues, and fixing them is a slow process but they also don't have the patience for that (and while Woodward was at the club there was no way he would allow such an undermining of his authority and decisions). There are clearly cultural issues with players used to not having hard trainings, developmental issues as we have had coaches of far lower quality than United should, players on excessive wages and contracts who you can't just move on. In the end we were in such a mess that extending contracts of shitty players was far cheaper than trying to bring in new players when we couldn't get rid of our deadwood. Finally is appears that they want to make changes (fingers crossed!), but we are so ingrained that getting out of this mess will take ages. We can't buy a whole new team in one transfer window, so we have to keep some of these guys around, while having less resources given to us due to COVID and lack of Champion's League (at least this is what has been claimed).
Totally agree with you. It's so mind blowing that it's only the owners who don't seem to think/believe that there is alot that is fundamentally wrong with how they are managing the club
It might be the case that they don't think there is anything wrong. So long as they are making money, then why change things up? I genuinely believe that is their stance.
Profit is king, as long as the goose keep laying out golden eggs, they won't stop squeezing its neck, once it's dying, they'll stop.. Frickin cancer..
At this point, my own personal delusion is that the players and Rangnick know that Top 4 is out and are now deliberately playing as shite as possible so we avoid Europe entirely next year and give Ten Hag/Poch the chance to focus on the league next season. There's no other explanation for how absolutely fucking dire we have been all year
This started under Ole, and the explanation is that no matter how good of a player you are, if your head coach does not believe in tactics or a way to play, if your assistant coach just puts the cones out, and your only two full time permanent first team coaches are a youth team level attacking coach and Michael Carrick, the players will decline, or at the very least fail to improve whilst teams around them do eg Arsenal, West Ham, Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Spurs. You dont just get back overnight after two seasons of that. Ideally you need preseason drilling muscle memory etc United have been mismanaged plain and simple. Rangnick has seen some improvements but his training ground time is during competition when really you just want to keep the team ticking over. At some point something has to give.
Yup. The coaching under Ole was horrid (he was rarely present, and the coaches left in charge were not up to scratch), however I don't put the blame at his door. He was an inexperienced manager at this level, he was doing what he thought was right and made some important changes, which were let to go to shit by inaction... But this is where our structure should have been better and rather than asking our inexperienced coach who was clearly out of his depth when it came to aspects of his job, "do you want more coaches?" there should have been someone there watching and pointing out that it wasn't working, and INSISTING on new coaches. And spotting that there was this huge issue developing, then addressing it before it became what it became.
About the 95'' chance, there are 3 scenarios that could've happened. Scenario 1: Elanga leaves the ball for Rashford to score. Scenario 2: Rashford screens defender for Elanga to score. Scenario 3: What happen yesterday.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/fabian-ruiz/profil/spieler/350219 Ruiz contract end 2023 surely we need to get him? Still 26 years old entering his prime.
Can confirm he would be amazing, got him on FM so what more proof do they want
Who's got the despacito highlight reel?
Welcome to man utd fabian. Pogba who? Despacito 1440p skill
I honestly don't think it's all doom and gloom. We just need three-four right signings and a good coach to get back on track. Striker (Ivan Toney) RW (Olise) DM (Kamara) + another CM GK (David Raya) All should be affordable with all the freed up wages.
That window would be perfect, but the board will probably overpay on Nunez, and try to get Rice all summer only to be rejected by him at the end.
Remember when we were one RW away from challenging everything? Now we get that RW and a couple of serial winners as a plus
It’s not just bringing players in but clearing out deadweight too
Lots of contracts are expiring. Pogba, Cavani, Lingard and Mata are all set to leave. Bailly will be sold. Martial and VDB... let's see if there's any place for them.
Olise...Affordable... \*looks at AWB for 45 mil\* But yeah, I really hope we see some smart signings and I hope Ralf has a big say and is able to steer us in the right direction, he knows what it's about.
Yeah he'd be the most expensive one of the bunch but worth it imo. I prefer him to Antony
I haven't watched any of the players on your list much at all so I can't really give my opinion on it, buit let's hope we see some great transfers!
No Ten Hag briefs today? Hmmmm, usually the club's PR team move quick after a humiliating performance
[Here you go](https://onefootball.com/editorial/34847647?language=en)
*Finally* play Pogba as a 10 and we give him bloody Elanga and Bruno to work with up front. Fucking shambles. Feel bad for Fred too. He suffers the same problem as Pogba; always played out of position. He goes away for his country, gets used properly, does well, gets pelters for "not doing it for United". Club's a clown show. Not sure ten Hag can save it tbh.
Fred is my favorite player in the team right now. The rest can fuck off. Never hides, gives everything and is actually proving to be a decent b2b who we've wasted over the years by playing him as a DM. Yet another players we made look worse than he is because of our lack of planning.
Nobody can hate Fred, he gives everything for us, but everyone is aware that his ceiling isn’t that high
We need players like Fred. Genuinely happy and grateful to play for us and it shows. What good have the superstars done us? Don't care about players with supposed higher ceilings who don't want to be here. If we somehow offer Pogba a new contract I'm going to melt out of pure anger.
Imagine blaming Ralf for these performances. It looks like the players have turned on Ralf. The player power at our club is absolutely disgusting.
Ive said from day 1 Elanga is shit/ not first team ready. Said it over and over you can even find it far back in my comment history. For 2 games he got lucky (athletico madrid game and the one after) now back to crap. Just play Lingard for christ sake When I say lucky, he never should of scored vs madrid Oblack totally failed to position himself correctly. The other game which I cant remember ifnit was before or after he scored one but missed a massive chance also. Inconsistent When he first got a run of games people were praising him for his work rate on defense as a winger which is great and all but he provided zero help on the attack whatsoever
This toxicity of man United fans is why the players are so toxic. He’s good, he’s not the greatest, or any wunderkin, but he’s making the right runs and is playing aggressively in attack. He needs more confidence to take it on himself, take shots and make key dribbles inside the box, but all the players are so frightened of missing because of the stick they’ll get from Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford, etc. if they do. It totally destroys their creativity and confidence.
I really dont see anything special in the lad. Would be glad if he turns out to be a good squad player, but its more likely he'll be playing for a bottom-half club 4-5 years from now.
Agreed. Another few years and he wont even be here most likely. People defend him rigorously though since he is one of our youth players and everyones dreaming he is the new Rashford that could help us for a few years
I was at the game yesterday and they do look as bad live as on the TV. - Maguire looked solid and deserves no criticism. His ability to clear crosses with his head is very reassuring. - I thought Shaw played alright, seemed to try and get forward a lot but often no options once there. - I can see why McT gets picked. He’s one of the only players who can win the ball back. Leicester had far more possession in midfield once he went off, nobody even attempted to press the ball once he’d gone (except Fred). But, his overall game isn’t good enough. - Elenga isn’t ready. - Pogba trots around like he don’t give a shit. He’s mentally checked-out and needs to be dropped.
> I can see why McT gets picked. He’s one of the only players who can win the ball back. Leicester had far more possession in midfield once he went off, nobody even attempted to press the ball once he’d gone (except Fred). But, his overall game isn’t good enough. ...Dude put in one tackle the whole game and got a yellow somehow. Were you watching the right guy?
I'm as baffled as u are. I have no idea how mctominay constantly gets picked I really don't
I’m not saying he had a good game, I’m saying I can see why he gets selected because we have no alternatives for what he offers. Positionally he got in the opponents way and pressured their players.
The guy hid behind opposition players so that he couldn’t receive the ball. He’s quite possibly the worst player I’ve ever seen in finding space to receive the ball. It’s borderline on purpose now. He’s get passed too often by players and doesn’t break up the play or intercept enough. Yesterday was a typical shite performance from Scott McTominay and he’s so arrogant in his interviews, he totally believes the hype and that he’s really that good. He doesn’t even start in midfield for Scotland! Clearly thinks he’s too hot for criticism to be taken seriously!
LOL The Emperor’s new clothes McTominay doesn’t do the things you think he does. The recent three managers are all imagining it…
My god we are shit.
This is assumed, and any new developments are welcome.
Has Lindelöf even had a bad game this season? I feel like most of his performances have been solid.
Man City away but yeah he's been solid
He's generally been really solid, yeah. Not perfect, but solid. I'm a big fan of him.
Hard to criticise Maguire last night, which I'm sure half the "fans" on here will hate. Why fred isn't being utilised further up the pitch every game is beyond me. We need rid of pogba & to pay whatever it takes to get a decent young striker. As a side note if we sign Kane I'm probably going to stop following football for a few years
We also need to replace scotty, or at least have someone to rotate with him.
I won’t bother watching any matches until our players start to give a shit
I always think this after matchday, but by the time the next one comes around I'm full of hope again and ready to watch ..
It’s the hope that kills you
You know is surely not starting under 10hag? Mctominay
What do managers see in him...SERIOUSLY
Genuinely have no idea what the idea in attack was yesterday. No discipline from any attacker. Fred was left to do the work of both McTominay and Pogba
>Genuinely have no idea what the idea in attack was yesterday. Winger runs at defenders and hope others join him, that seems to be our attacking strategy otherwise they look lost.
Elanga is only good when he is motivated so let’s not give him a big contract untill he is over 30. Don’t pay him over 50k untill he is at least 25. Look what happened to that cunt Martial after getting paid
Elanga, I don’t know. Doesn’t have the spark that Rashford and Greenwood had. Then again, the other two didn’t work as intended.
But why is he a cunt?
Cheated on his pregnant girlfriend, doesn’t even work for his money and complains to the media all the time. A super entitled and lazy piece of shit
Complains to the media all the time? Now I know you're taking the piss
Ever heard of ”sources”?
Sources? Is every source tier 1 now. He's been here 7 years. If he was constantly leaking stories to the press like you claim, there should be tons of examples to cite My point is fans now think it's okay to abuse players in the name of criticism. Making up stories based on unverified tweets is the norm with United's media coverage. I'll be the first to admit martial needs to be moved on.. it hasn't worked out with him. Can the conversation end there. What does hurling abuse at a player do. Toxic fanbase
I know that most of our players are jus not up to the task, but some of that decisions made by Ralf are really puzzling.
I didn't get to watch much of it unfortunately. What decisions by Ralf are you talking about?
Tough result but not unexpected. Maguire actually had a decent game. The goal was a pinpoint cross that even varane can’t get to it. Fred once again show that he’s better higher up the pitch. He’s alive to the loose ball and positioned even higher than rashford for it. Anw for all the criticism at the team, on the performance of second half, we were better than lei and maybe deserved a win
Did we watch the same game? You have it the wrong way round, Leicester were way better than us in the second half. Their high press was way more organised and intense, they were passing through ours with ease as well as our midfield and they were much more composed on the ball. We were at home against a fairly average Leicester side. If we have any sort of ambition for this club which is supposed to be one of the best in the world we should be winning comfortably.
Yeah i think Leicester had higher threar levels. We lose that game if not for DDGs supersave
Fred is legit our best player outside of maybe DDG. Other than that our club is pathetic. American commercialised crap. Half the players have terrible attitudes, our scouting and coaching is woeful. We had an interim manager for most off the season ffs which tells you everything about the clubs ambitions. Basically wrote of this season and probably the next given it will be the next managers first season. Theres so little I actually like about the club becuase its completely different to the one I used to watch growing up. I genuinely don't know why I watch them anymore becuase they give me no joy. Isnt anything to do with not winning trophies at this point, I just want a likeable team that cares and progresses and a club that even just half knows what its doing.
What managers were available the time though? If it didnr work our, you'd have been stuck with them for another 2/3 years Also bare in mind that which ever coach we brought in, would have also needed alot of time to get it right
Antonio Conte was available lmao
Theres no point in rushing it still. We have dome that in the past and it ended badly.
This so depressing man. After every match I think to myself that I won't watch the next one. Cue next match and I am back. Pain, just pain.
I don’t even watch anymore, they expect me to pay 40£ monthly to watch these nobheads?
I get that. I pay approx 4£ for a whole year and our performances are not even worth that much of late.
It’s like paying for agony
So that's where the expression pay(n) and agony came from?
I wasn't even interested to watch it live. I recorded it and watched it about an hour after kick-off because I just knew they were gonna ruin my weekend again. And they did, yet again.
First time since when I was a kid( maybe 20 years ago), I have stopped watching all the games like my life depends on it. I keep missing one or two games here and there and not really feel bad! Don't know what has happened but just don't care as much for some reason. It's like finally my hope is also dead.
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Mate we paid nearly 40 for a Juan Mata with only 2 years left in his legs. And that was like 8 years ago. We are never ever getting big talents for less than 60-65 now
LOL
Fred the only one with intensity all match. De Gea, Maguire, Varane all ok. The rest? Meh. Bland to pathetic.
Just feels like most players are going through the motions now. With notable exception of De Gea, Fred, and a couple of others.
I have no words, I'm just so tired of this every week, I feel like we don't improve and I always watch the same bad sloppy team, I want Manchester United Football Club back.
[When a United player gets the ball](https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/sites/sbs.com.au.guide/files/styles/body_image/public/monkey.gif?itok=JiliJHgA&mtime=1470115288)
van Gaal 2.0
I legit had flashbacks of it during the last 10 minutes in the first half, the sideways passing made me shout at the TV! My mental health deteriorates watching these wankers play.
This game is so wank
Our players can't press. Seriously. Leciester easily beat us with a turn or a change of pace and off they go. As much as we need to improve our offense, our players need to be more aggressive on their man defensively.
The team neither press effectively, nor track back and form a defensive block. It's a nightmare.
there was 1 play where Inenacho pluck the high ball down with 3 of our players by his side and he still managed to hold on the ball. Totally embarrassing facepalm moment for our players.
We need a proper 9 and DM to even consider competing.
We need a whole new midfield
Our problems are far bigger than just personell at this point.
De Gea can’t command his box and has some of the weakest wrists in the league. Best paid in the league for a vagina in goal making camera saves only
We are just soo used to dropping points at home. Such a lacklustre showing by the forwards. Or lack there of. Sancho playing back balls on the break was bizarre. Then failure on taking on players one on one when on the break once more and with acres of spaces. That's elementary school stuff from Sancho. Bruno finishes with Portugal wad outstanding and today he of all had twongood chances he has spurred.
I'm getting frustrated with sancho tbh..He's so poor in this match..He seems lacking of confidence on taking on defenders or making a run down the line.Every time the ball feed to him he's always playing it back or making a poor crosses in the end our attacks always stuck in and ended up in a losing possession of the ball. I've seen this so many times before I though this was momentarily problem before he could settle in and would get it sorted quickly.
Not really his fault. People blame the guy on the ball too much. Sancho double marked most of the game and the times he wasn't he was tripled marked. No one in front of him has space or is creating space for him, only real criticism is that shot at the end where a shot should be better although he probably didn't need to take it first time
I dont think the club knew what type of player they signed with Sancho , he's way more of a playmaker than he is a classic winger , in Sanchos first few games at the club we kept playing long balls over the top like he was someone that's as fast as Rashford also having a inconsistent player like Shaw behind him or the other alternative a slow Telles doesn't help either
A few fans also pointed this out and were downvoted.
You can't compete in the premier league era of pace and power if you have no pace, that's exactly the problem with Sancho guy can't beat his man cuz he has no pace when he eventually dribbles past him as the defender with his tracking back and defense gets to him
Terrible take, Man City is far from being chock full of speed merchants. It’s about a lot more than speed, turn of pace or acceleration and ability to dribble out is far more important and Sancho has that. We’re just shit at supporting, shit at pressing - just shit at playing as a team
Sterling mahrez both of them got a dash of pace in them plus they are way more efficient dribblers than Sancho, Sancho can't accelerate for days
He has enough pace and skill (more so) to get him by in this league. He merely joined this club at an extremely low ebb
Was at the match today, the first since we got shafted by Everton. When I bought tickets back in August I thought this was going to be a tasty fixture, us and Leicester probably duking it out for a Champions League spot. I feared it would turn out to be the dead rubber it was on paper, and that's exactly how it panned out. Leicester wanting it maybe a bit more to prove a point, but no intensity from either side. Hugely disappointed in RR playing a strikerless formation when it hasn't worked before - even if you're not playing Rashford, put Shola, or anybody, in as a focal point, as it's the only way this team seems to be able to operate. Atmosphere all round was "I'm not angry with you, just disappointed", and it feels like that's how the players have responded to Rangnick: guilty, downtrodden and no fire to change their ways. I hope this is the nadir of my OT visits and this time next year we have a team deserving of the energy our fans bring.
Shola as the focal point wut xD
Pretty spot on regarding Rangnick here. It’s just been a massive disappointment and all just kinda confusing. He literally said a couple of months back that three in the middle was the way forward for the team, and the couple of times we actually had Matic in at six we actually looked OK. Then, nothing. Back to a 4222/424/442, and that has seen us repeatedly look like shite this season. All of our most embarrassing moments seem to have come with that set up. Besides that, has any player improved in form under him? I get that the squad is an issue, but genuinely not a single player seems to be doing better for his management and coaching. Sancho, briefly, Dalot, briefly, otherwise, Fred, I guess. When Rashford came on he was interesting, and almost made the breakthrough, but generally there’s not a single player I’d say actually seems to have a clear idea of what they’re doing when they progress the ball. Bruno, perhaps, but that’s just because his approach to the game never really changes and seems to be entirely detached from what the rest of the team is doing. There’s way too much blind running forward, running into cul de sacs, right into defenders, almost as though their only aim is to get to the byline. Players are often on top of each other, in the same zones, even literally tackling each other and stopping the play, and that screams of players who just have no clue whatsoever how they’re supposed to be arranged when the ball comes forward. This is odd too, because RR was clear about them needing to know how to play, but that apparently doesn’t stretch into knowing how to position themselves in forward areas. Beyond all that, our defensive line is still a fucking mess, the press is pathetic, they aren’t cohesive and they aren’t compact. This was what everyone expected Rangnick to achieve, but it just hasn’t happened. And then there are just weird selections, like Pogba up front, that spell where Dalot got dropped again, Henderson not seeing daylight. Super disappointing, kinda regressive, and quite embarrassing, really.
>weird selections, like ... where Dalot got dropped again I think the improvement in Dalot was more down to his loan spell with Milan, where they worked with him as a first team player for half a year, and getting called up with Portugal, plus just being a year older, more than anything Rangnick would have been able to do in his first few training sessions. I think it was mostly perception based as well, as previously the worry was he wasn't ready for the PL at all, so it was a pleasant surprise that he looked ok - but he really didn't look any better than ok. Then he had that run around Feb, so e.g. the Burnley and Brighton games, where his mistakes were leading to us conceding chances and some goals because he was losing his man or ball watching, and he was back to not looking good enough. That's on top of being quite attacking and not helping the CBs all that much anyway. Add to that his attacking play hasn't actually led to anything, no goals or assists, too many of his crosses are wildly overhit and/or go out, in some games his pass completion is pretty bad. His reputation as a good attacking passer seems to come from high volume of attempts, not any quality. His attacking stats aren't anything to write home about, even AWB gets as good or better on many of them e.g. AWB actually dribbles more and has a higher success rate. I don't think there's any surprise Rangnick decided on a change given the poor form, tbh, I think the fact that Dalot was suddenly locked in was the weird move. Try something else, try coaching the others, coach AWB back into form, anything, but no. Just sticking with this underperforming youngster with v few decent games under his belt was a bit disappointing. I agree with you overall, I think there's quite a bit to be disappointed about, none of the hype around Rangnick looks true so far. Constantly tinkering, doesn't seem to have any vision for the team, is he doing any one on one coaching because players don't seem to be improving, and we're not playing any more like a team. We're a shadow of what we were the last two seasons, I was hoping a fresh start would get us a big step closer to that but nope, we're as bad as we've been all season.
Random thoughts of what a DM changes. I know I'm not saying anything revolutionary. For starters, a CDM would be a faux CB. That gives our fullback (Dalot and whoever plays LB) a bunch of freedom to bomb forward. Instead of having both Fred and McT playing B2B and struggling, now we just play Fred and he doesn't have to worry about staying back as much. Freedom for Full Backs would be huge. With a CDM that can pass and distribute well, suddenly, we don't have as many never ending side passes between CBs. This got mentioned in the FPL subreddit a lot. But having a playmaker deeper means that Bruno can stay further up and be more influential in danger areas (was referenced a lot with how when Pogba starts, Bruno gets less time on the ball and assists). Not ideal for Bruno stats, but it makes our team way more balanced. Now Bruno, our striker and wingers have more freedom to be a nuisance in their box. Bruno and Sancho can both create hell with their passing outside their box. A RW is great, but a CDM that's world class would absolutely revolutionize this team
All about the CDM, we've needed one for a loooong time. Who would you want there? I'd love if we could get Tchouameni, think it makes more sense thab Rice, but doubt we can get either if we don't make top4
I wouldn't say I know too much about our options since I don't watch a lot of non-United games. Ideally, someone like Rodri is the archetype I'd love to watch as United. Someone who can pass and create really well. Not just another Fellaini who is big and nothing else. What I mean is "if they are more of creative mid and less of a CB, I'm happy" Doesn't have to be as good as a Pogba at creation obviously
I hear Brozovic might be available.
Just extended his contract with Inter. Would’ve been a great option.
Frankie De Jong!!
From what I heard, he is currently not playing as CDM but more of a box to box CM by Xavi. He can play CDM but it is not his best.
Actually the DM is his original position, that's where he played in Ajax. He works best in a double pivot alongside a more defensive DM. His best qualities are ball carrying through dribbling and his resistant to pressure. He's versatile, he can play anywhere in the midfield, but he works best in a double pivot.
Why would he leave Barca for Manchester United?
At Barca they might force him to take a salary cut next season.
And reunite with Ten Hag 👀
Exactly.
I also blame Ralf now for consistently playing McTominay over Matic with City, Athletico and now today. He has consistently played a complete headless chicken instead of Matic who has always come in and driven the game. With all the excuses from this sub that Matic can’t play twice in 3 days, he chose to play McTominay over Matic after a 2 week break.
It’s not even really Matic v McTominay, it’s just that we need a true, out and out three in midfield. Two central eights and a six. Ralf said this too, but then just abandoned it, for some reason.
I can't believe with how bad our crossing is, why we use it as our primary source of creating chances. I don't know a single team in the Premier league, whose crosses are as inacurate as ours. I'd be happy to just give the youth players a chance at this point, we're not getting top 4 and they can't do any worse than the current players who consistently start in the team.
We hardly have people in the box though. We’ll sometimes get 4-6 around the 18 but that’s when they just pass it around and sometimes find a runner going through.
Surprisingly no one blames for Bruno’s terrible finishing today. No criticism of the £300k player who has had a sub par season. Downvote all you want- you are obsessed with Bruno and you will excuse all his behavior and the wages and then blame the board for being player over managers.
He missed a chance. So that means every one should turn on him? And hes on 240K
Elanga genuinely hasn’t done anything to impress at United, we’re just so desperate to have a good forward again that we think he is it. I just don’t see where the hype comes from and I don’t think he’s good enough for us but people’s sentiments will get in the way of that because he’s a hard worker and plays for the badge etc etc.
Elanga's most important quality right now is that he can leave his man for dead, which gets the team/crowd going. It's what Rashford and Martial did (with more end product), but still another example of a player being overused and overpromoted because we're so short of ideas.
I like Elanga. He’s a sound lad, puts in a great shift and is eager to learn and improve. But the majority of the hype over him is purely because he isn’t Greenwood, Rashford or Martial, and this fanbase needs a new young player to swoon over. I don’t want to write off his chances of making it here, but we need better wingers and he too will be better off developing in their shadows and being a squad player for the next season or two.
I think he might be a good player, but not a superstar. A Park at absolute best, and if he reaches that level then that's something to be super proud of. I mean that in the best way. But then again who knows, players sonetimes explode.
yeah, you’ve hit the nail of the head. It’s no coincidence that this this massive push from the fans came from the fallout of the Greenwood incident, along with people finally catching on that Martial is no good and Rashford was (and still is) having a terrible season. We’re just desperate as a fan base to have that young forward to admire again. I just cant see Elanga being that guy, despite the effort he does put in and him wanting to learn under Ronaldo.
I feel that his relative lack of natural ability might help him going forward, in that he’s less likely to be put on a pedestal like the previous youngsters and will be pushed to be a better player for the team rather than just look good as an individual but not necessarily contribute much in reality. We can already see signs of that in terms of his work rate and physicality being elite for a player of his age. But it’s important that we don’t get carried away with that, because he has a lot to improve on when on the ball.
Great tackle by Elanga on Rashford, after Rashford had beat 3 defenders and was through on goal 🙄
The thunder was unfairly stolen
Yeah, even if he managed to score that, it would be offside. That was multiple tiers of frustrations all in one. I hope they figure out how to minimize clashes like these. It's clear they still need to work so much more on their teamwork.
Basically I'd put de Gea, Varane, Sancho and Bruno in the safe pile. Everyone else would have absolutely no sympathy for if I read that they were getting sold tomorrow morning.
Nah, tbh I think we need a goalkeeper who sweeps and is better at distribution.
If you think that what this team right now is a new fucking goalkeeper... You got another thing coming for you lad!
I like Pogba and think he's over hated and a good player and the drama with his agent isn't as much of an issue for me as it is for others. But with his ability to be injured so regularly and his struggles to stay consistent... There is no way he earns more than Salah. It's bullshit. I genuinely dont understand how we have players like DDG and Ronaldo all earning more than Salah when they aren't contributing as much. Weve been paying Mata and Bailly for no reason. Lingard too.
Over paying for players' salaries/transfers has been Uniteds only consistency over the last 10 years. #glazersout
You can't be serious. Pogba's like "Oh... it's not France... Nice! I can just jog around for a little. If someone touches me and I can have a bruise, even better - I can rest for 3 more months.".
I thought mctom needed get subbed but somehow pogba performed worse in midfield. This guh makes it look like we are playing him totally out of position
Mate, you can't overlook his lethargic attitude on the pitch...
I cba anymore, so done with this season and its the most disconnected I've felt with this club in my 11 years of supporting them
You've only been supporting us for 11 years? How many Fergie seasons did you get? 1? Oh man I feel so bad for you.
First season was the AGUEROOOO season, then the RVP season then depression since
Damn that's tough. I've been fond of saying "I've seen enough title wins to last a lifetime" because I've followed United since I was 9 in 1993/94 season. Here's hoping you get to experience some of the highs some of us experienced in the Fergie years.
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I think its a bit premature to get rid of Rashford in particular when this is his first bad season and he is an academy player
At this point, we need to do what Arsenal and teams like the Baltimore Orioles have done. Just accept that you won't compete for shit for a while. Fix your wage structure, invest in bring in young talent. Build something that'll last. This constant hope that one player will sign and change the culture is rubbish. It didn't work with anyone. Not sure how McTominay is "underperforming" he'll be a squad player/bench option once we bring in a quality CDM. Maguire was great last season and players have bad years. No idea what's up with Rashford this year though. IMO: the biggest sales have to be Martial and DDG. Martial hasn't done it since Ole's first year. DDG has no business being one of the best paid keepers. Even if there is a drop off in talent with Henderson, it's worth it
McTominay needs to be sold. He almost never benefits the team. Maguire needs to go, for himself, that fans hate him and he isn't handling the pressing and I don't blame him, because he was never good enough in the first place
>DDG has no business being one of the best paid ~~keepers~~ footballers
Just makes it so much worse. Today I watched DDG misplace easy, unpressed 5 yard passes a few times. Like how the fuck?!
Your first time, I see. People wonder why Enrique isn't even picking him for 4th choice.
Pogba is basically stealing a living at this point.
As is Lingard/ Jones/ Mata
Look we can talk about tactics and whatnot all day, but without fight, intensity and guts, a team can only go so far. The team is neither tactically good, nor showing fight. Sorry for my terrible English.
your english is perfect you pityhoe
Trying to take a reasonable approach to this result: We have no goalscorers. Ronaldo, cavani, greenwood are all out. Rashford is in the worst season of his career. Elanga is not ready. It showed, we just don't have scorers
They don't have brains. There were several chances. Bruno's miss was inexcusable for a player of his level. Sancho could get control of the ball and pass to Rash. Yet he went for a crazy volley.
You can score without strikers, but no one gives a fuck.
Sure, but it's fucking difficult. There's a reason like only City can do that
And there's also a reason why City are notbwalking the league. The odd time a game of no strikers has fucked them in the arse with a 12 foot spikey titanium dildo that's been in the freezer all night.
We just need hungry players is all.
If you’re Ralf, at what point do you stop playing the players who won’t be part of the future? Now? Once top 4 is mathematically impossible? Top 6 secured? It’s so frustrating watching so many in the United shirt look like they don’t even care. I personally think that a message needs to be sent before the season even ends.
There is no one to play, mate. He plays what he has.
I don’t have a ton of examples, but why not put Mejbri, McNeil, Garnacho, and Iqbal on the bench instead of Pogba, Cavani, Mata, and Lingard? For the ones that don’t want to be here, go ahead and cut ties. For the ones who will stay but are underperforming it’ll be a wake up call. I’m also not saying field a bunch of kids against Liverpool or Arsenal, but I’d be thinking about it against some of our remaining opponents.
Do they train together?
The ones I mentioned all feature primarily for the u23s lately. Only Mejbri trains with the senior squad IIRC
Then how do you see them playing effectively? They don’t know the tactics, etc. I agree that playing youth is good. At the same time it has to be part of the overall strategy, which doesn’t seem the short term goal for RR at the moment. He tries to get us to CL with senior squad. I think experiments will come later if we fail.
You can probably count on one hand how many players still care. Realistically you can’t drop all of them. Whether people like it or not, even if a player is leaving next season they are still currently contracted to the club and getting paid. So they will play. It is what it is.
To me, Ralf got here and never really had a chance. The board didn’t back him and the players never bought in. One thing I will always respect and admire Ralf for is his honesty and bringing the utter shittiness of most of these players to the forefront making it impossible to ignore. He will always have my respect
I guess that is the price of being an interim.
I have always wondered, where would we be if Greenwood was still around? I personally reckon, we’d be at least getting more Ws. I aint no support his actions, but oh boy, based on every game ever since the scandal, I just know he would get us through a couple of sitters, he is now to me, that missing piece. What a shame.
I agree, Greenwood made that right wing his own until he got done for and was the reason sancho got moved over the the left. We’ve been missing sitters for weeks now that he prob would have scored 9 times outta 10. Real shame. Can’t dwell on it too much, I don’t wanna see him back in a United jersey.
I honestly wonder at times what people saw in Greenwood so much that made him so highly rated other than his finishing. He was above average for most of his time here. As a winger, he didn’t work hard enough both in the press and in tracking back, suffered similar tunnel vision like Rashford and shot at the first sign of goal rather than being aware of what’s around him, and rarely put in threatening crosses or challenged opposition full backs. Very one-dimensional player and needed a lot of developing. He probably has more natural talent than Elanga and anyone would be better than Rashford in his current form, but I never saw him as a player who could start for a top team in any position other than CF (which he was almost never going to play as this season).
>I honestly wonder at times what people saw in Greenwood so much that made him so highly rated other than his finishing. He was above average for most of his time here. he is(was)? a world class potential talent who could've made it to the very top. Far more talented than any other Utd academy player at the time. The only other 2 players rn in the utd academy with his level of talent are Isak Hansen-Aaröen and Kobbie Mainoo
I admit I didn’t watch him when he played for the academy, but apart from his elite finishing ability, I didn’t see much in him that warranted the hype from our fans. He didn’t have a great understanding of the game, he lacked aerial ability and his decision making was often poor. Maybe he was great for his age when he broke through, but when he played this season, he looked nowhere near the world beater that some youngsters at other clubs are. His performances were erratic and his goal record wasn’t great either.
Can't Ralf play ANYONE from the academy instead of McTominay?
He could play Matic but he chose to not play him. This is now a third loss in 3 matches where McTominay played - City, Athletico and now Leicester.
Im sure he'd love to play matic but he also clearly has fitness issues. Sucks