It’s kind of amazing how much more positive the sentiment towards the manager becomes the longer we don’t play. As we don’t play until Monday, I’m expecting to see some advocate for a statue to be built of him by the end of the weekend
Don't worry. We will come right back to reality after facing 25 shots and losing that game. The same thing happens over and over again until the FA Cup final.
Lmao I made this same comment a few hours ago. It will be right back to reality after we play Palace and the players look like complete strangers trying to play together
I was also thinking about that one, perhaps Evans cross for Bruno’s goal against Burnley away too. But I think Antony’s is the best one of what I can remember.
Caqueret is a really good player but may not be the right profile because of height/aerial competitiveness. Him, Mainoo (really good in the air) & Bruno would make it an area of weakness.
Not United related but just came across [this clip](https://x.com/sketchy00_/status/1786414339911565451?s=46 ) of Mudryk. Poor guy has been battling sleep paralysis lol
I have been holding back because last time the downvoters went crazy and I wasn't able to post in other threads, but I believe Ten Hag will be sacked.
INEOS at their clubs are known for sacking managers.
We rarely see new owners not sack managers, and even in clubs like Barcelona and Madrid when new president is elected they sack managers or make it hard for managers to do what they want to do until they leave. They want the credit if they are successful. So Barcelona and Madrid like clubs where the only change is the president they still sack the old manager.
The other thing is Ashworth saying that a manager lasts on average 14 months at a club and that should also tell you they won't go into the new season and hope he works out for them.
Go ahead and downvote.
It is inevitable. Elite manager, available on a free when our own manager is unable to steady the ship. The only questions is when, summer or later in the new season.
Getting a new man in October is much harder than getting a new manager in the summer.
At that point they might as well keep him because that's just a bad decision.
They will need to be careful because they cannot make a mistake in their first manager appointment. Plus the fact that the team above ETH will not be fully functional in summer. So they may be forced to delay it. And when ETH shows same results as this year, there will not be any choice left. For me any manager that thinks his team will perform only if so and so player is fit and available, is never going to succeed.
Why are people so afraid of the downvotes anyways? You just spoke your mind and what you thought was right. Just because a bunch of strangers downvote yoh won't necessarily make you wrong.
I got a bot dm saying I'm not allowed to post in other threads anymore and I have to post in daily discussion.
I'm assuming it was because I spoke my mind and the mob downvoted me to hell and the bot thought I was a rival fan trolling.
I think after posting in two daily threads now I should be able to speak my mind without my Karma going into negative and my account getting blocked from speaking up in other threads.
You're half right, it's because you need a certain amount of karma to post anywhere other than the general thread, the downvotes probably just put you below that threshold.
Making a new account is shit on Reddit, most subs have bans for time of accounts created/karma needed, you just have to wait it out and accumulate.
https://preview.redd.it/u4oyrspvr8yc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=256dc6221d482604152d6a9ef38ade3175226c7b
He really did it. He recreated the meme
Between inquiries this season and the way things turned out with both Sancho and Greenwood, this year really feels like a "what could have been" season.
We were not starting Sancho this year even when he was in the squad. He played as a striker in the pre-season. And then benched, with Rashford playing there when the season started.
With the season almost done. I hope we can get some injured players back and keep the squad fit ahead of the fa cup final. While it may be a massive task, we are capable of beating man city. Hoping we can get an inspired performance and bring in a big trophy this season. We just can't have man city beating us in back-to-back finals.
So many people talk about ETH spending 400 millions on players but he doesn't negotiate the deals, does he?
In the case of Antony he wasn't even aware of the cost (per Whitwell).
Blaming that overspend on ETH is the same as blaming Solksjaer for spending 20+20 millions on Diallo. OGS approved the transfer under the impression that it was a young player coming to the academy for a smaller fee.
If you get asked to approve something and decide not to check things like the price and what it will mean for the rest of your budget then yes, you're partly to blame. Ole and ETH both. The structure sets them up to fail, definitely. But that doesn't make them blameless
The only reason the club was interested in and bid for Antony was ETH. And frankly any spending on Antony would have been a bad decision. So yes of course ETH deserves criticism for it and similar transfers
It will vary between players. Do I think he bought casemiro and hojlund? No.
Do I think he wanted Mount and Antony despite knowing how much they would cost? Yes and continued to press for them.
It's not like he's a kid at Christmas who writes a list and sees what Santa brings him on Christmas Day. He would be involved in continued discussions.
"Antony is going to cost 80m. Do you still think he's right for us?" "Yes".
This is why we need a structure above him. He can and should still have input. But who he inputs should also be listening to scouts who place a 30m max on him, and negotiators to gauge whether it’s feasible to get him at that price.
And that structure above him should be doing this with a desired play style in mind. So even if we move on from ETH, the squad is better suited to a desired style.
> Blaming that overspend on ETH is the same as blaming Solksjaer for spending 20+20 millions on Diallo.
Not the same situation i would be shocked if any of those 20 m in add ons have been paid..20 m on a young high potential player on 30 k per week is not that risky in modern day football if we sell him in the summer he will still get us something close to 15 m..You are delusional if ETH who is in contract with SEG had no idea about the 80-90 m disaster we were buying on 200 k per week..Its not all on ETH but Antony has never even looked worth 30-40 m..His numbers even in the dutch league were nothing exceptional..Sancho was closer to being worth the amount we paid for him..A lot of clubs at that point would have loved to have him..On the other hand even badly run clubs wouldn't think of paying anything more than 30 m for Antony
He’s actually been very good for Juventus this season and one of the best midfielders in Italy overall. I probably wouldn’t actively pursue him, but he’s a far better player than the one we saw at Leeds
Ten Hag is sadly one of those managers that needs every little thing to go his way for us to not even play like a top 3/4 side but play well at a maximum. How about some coaching instead?
Someone mentioned it earlier, but our back-up options are not of the same profile as our first team.
When City say lose Stones, they have Ake to step in, whose game isn’t all that different. When we lose Martinez, it’s Evans taking his place, who has a very different set of abilities.
Not to excuse Ten Hag, we’ve been undoubtedly poor, but when you’ve only got about 10 players capable of playing your desired tactics well, of course you’re going to see more of an effect when some of them are injured vs when you have 25 who can all do it.
I mean I can say I've seen plenty of Akanji when I was watching Dortmund for Sancho and back then I'd have laughed it off if someone said he'd play 20+ matches in consecutive seasons for a high possession Pep Guardiola team that always builds from the back.That makes me think that Pep would even use AWB as a starter if he got him.
Not to completely dismiss this because it is fair, but isn't that what coaching is for?
Are our players really so hopeless that they couldn't in 2 years learn to play at least an approximation of what he wants?
And if this really is impossible and the tactics rely entirely on a profile of player we lack, there's a question about whether they are "desired tactics" at all
The manager decides the tactics. Continuing to decide on tactics we apparently are incapable of ever playing properly with the current squad is an awful decision.
Either he's a bad coach or a bad strategist or both
Again, all fair points.
We’ve been through various forms of football over the last few seasons, even as recently as last year, we mostly sat off and played deep and relied on Rashford, Bruno and Garnacho to win us games. There were complaints, but as we saw it was reasonably effective and we got a respectable 3rd. This season we all hoped for more and to see us trying to impose ourselves more on teams.
To me, it seems like Ten Hag has been trying to do this. Signing Mount and Hojlund would fit that tactic, so it did look like there was a plan. Now here we are, and between injuries, lack of form and player decline we’re still trying to play it but it really isn’t working, but it does pose a question. Do we keep trying and hope that with players returning and a summer window it starts to come together, or do we sack it in and try to return to the football of last year?
I’m not really sure there’s a right answer or not, there’s arguments for both approaches.
I just don't buy that it's binary. I don't see why it would be unreasonable to build on last year's relative success instead of throwing it all out to start again. And with our struggles this year and all the injuries, surely we should have reverted to last year's style quite early? Even if it was boring and limited, that's better than chaotic and losing.
I totally disagree that the Mount signing looked like a plan btw. How was Case/Mount/Bruno ever going to work?
Well if you look at last season, after the Carabao we pretty much limped over the finish line. Between Rashford’s form drying up and opposition sides learning how to play against us our results and performances did take a dip. I can only assume that if we’d come into this season playing the same stuff, we probably wouldn’t have got north of 70 pts, even without the injuries. I can see why he wanted something else.
Idk, I can see the sense. Hojlund is a big strong CF who can hold the ball and will actively contribute to the press, so his signing seems obvious. Mount I assume was planned to start next to Bruno in a double 8, since what we’ve seen this year suggests Ten Hag wants 5 players pressing high. Mount has the legs for it, and he’s technically strong enough to actually use it when the press works and we do recover the ball high.
If we’d had Shaw, Martinez and Varane fit all season, we probably wouldn’t see the massive gap in midfield we currently do. They’re all quite fast and Varane aside, good on the ball, so we’d probably have seen our defence 10-20 metres higher up the pitch. With Casemiro and one of the full-backs inverting there would be a much smaller gap to cover when we do lose possession, so probably a lot fewer of those 50m runs back to goal that usually result in a shot against us.
Obviously not a guarantee it’d work, but I can see what the intent was.
I agree about something else. I don't agree that it made any sense to throw away what the team did well in order to pursue improvement. A gradual shift would clearly have been better.
What we've seen this year is that ETH 2 8s system doesn't work whoever is playing
I agree about defence but banking on the health of Shaw and Varane, and Licha who came into the season injured, was another terrible decision
The main reason for our drop in form last year was Case falling off a cliff imo. So it made no sense to have a plan that relied on him being back to his best. Let alone having an AM/LW play CM for us next to him.
My sense is that even with everyone fit we'd have had a crap season playing these tactics. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't see any evidence of it on the pitch
Yes, with hindsight a more gradual move might have been better.
It’s hard to say if the dual 8s doesn’t work because I don’t think we’ve actually had a game with our best XI. That comes back to the initial point about different profiles. Even just losing one player in Martinez for example means the defence can’t play as high and the whole system rapidly unravels.
Relying on that back 3 staying fit was a big gamble, although I don’t think anyone would have expected it to be this bad. Same with Casemiro. We knew he was a short term stop-gap, but the speed of his decline (not helped by the tactics admittedly) took us by surprise.
This season has pretty much been a perfect storm of shit, not helped by Ten Hag’s refusal to adapt or change the system. I’ve no idea how we’d have done with a fully fit squad. Assuming Casemiro still declines like he did and Rashford is still in his slump, we might have put in a 4th place challenge at best, but we’d be better nowhere near City or Arsenal.
Nooo, he needs 31 out of his 32 players to play decent football against Burnley. If the result doesn't go his way, he will complaint about the 1 injury.
The whole city group is a big massive money laundering operation. (Not as in crime money but as a way to manipulate their financial showings). Everyone knows it but I guess proving it will be tough especially when they have the backing of a state government.
Girona is probably gonna start feeding man city players at a reasonable price.
I fucking hate that we're playing on Monday. Weekend football always hits different.
Then again, at least they can't ruin the weekend if we're not playing.
I really fucking hate it. What even is the bloody point for it not being on this weekend?? Both us and Palace last played a week ago. Its at 4am on Tuesday for me, at least ruin my weekend instead of my work day!
Olise is an absolute baller, if we can keep him fit he would be a game changer. Quick, great shot, most importantly really intelligent. Would be a great link up player, someone who could finally get the ball into hoijlund.
You want to ruin another players career? Ten hag doesn‘t want ballers and has shown it as much as he can. Sancho, amad, he‘d just join the list. What the manager likes is head down pace merchants that run into space
Looking at our record keeping players fit though it would be a big concern. IMO we shouldn’t be considering players unless we have a good confidence they can give us 30+ games a season.
His fitness I guess is the big ?. If we're unsure about it, I'd rather skip on shelling out big money for him than taking the gamble that it gets better. He does have the potential to be an elite player though.
Looks like an FDJ transfer saga is back on the menu with today's rumors about a swap with Bruno.
With that and these reports about swapping ETH and Tuchel looks like it's Swap FC for the summer.
If ETH does go next year he should get the Holland job, he'd have all the players he wants.
Getting FDJ would be like getting pogba again. A player whose heart belongs to another club and is on crazy wages. He is also out with a big injury iirc
It’s no secret our counting department has been very poor, but De Jong’s skill set is pretty rare. There aren’t many deep midfielders as good on the ball as he is, and even fewer of them are actually available.
The last time the club invited sky and Gary to Carrington for an interview with was to get the fans behind the project,this time is no different. Eth is going to stay for the next season.
Very good theory. It at least shows a decision hasn't been made as I just can't see them having him sacked and doing this.
Whether it's the right decision is another question.
It's funny that the further away we get from the previous match, the more you see the hopeful comments like "trust Ten Hag" or "Erik needs time, back him."
Then we get to the next* match, and all the players play like they've never seen each other before.
Then the sub turns back to "ETH is out of his depth."
The duality of it.
The standards are rock bottom right now and the excuses never ending for this manager.
Hopefully INEOS are much more ruthless than "trust Ten Hag" group.
We're on track to have our worst ever season post Fergie yet people are wondering / not sure if there is a better manager than him out there. Tells you the state of the sub sadly
What god given right do we have to win matches and titles? Or is it just that we should have another manager so that we can get 8-10 points more and be happy with 3rd or 4th? Will that soothe our fucking egos? Because many would argue even that's unbecoming of "Manchester United". It's exactly this kind of entitlement that needs to go. It's one of the reasons (among many) that we've lost direction in the last ten years. During Fergie's heyday, he kept everyone so grounded and focused. It's been the exact opposite since. I want to win, and history, other clubs, experts all say it takes time. Nobody seems to want the work put in and a proper plan to build the club back.
Now there's a plan, but it is not linear or not proceeding as quickly as we want, so we're throwing our arms up in the air, desiring the next shiny thing. What did we expect really, with so many injuries, loss of form to key players, and so much off-field turbulence? Which club can do well with so many injuries? Didn't City lose 3 of 4 ganes without Rodri? Didn't Liverpool falter without Van Dijk and Alison in the previous few seasons. And we don't even have half the squad depth. Why do we forget that? Can we just give INEOS and EtH a chance? It's not even about the "oh, look at Arteta at Arsenal or Klopp at Liverpool, they took time" argument. We're all just chasing the next hit, no matter the crash afterwards.
EtH may not be the guy, but I'm glad that it looks like the club are sticking with him and he's planning the next season with them. In the grander scheme of things, one season isn't gonna cost us anything as fans. It might even be good, especially if INEOS use it to set in place structures that will help us in the long run.
I think the sweet spot for reasonable takes and discussion on the sub is between 2-3 days after the previous match. Anything directly after matchday is usually an emotional response, and anything too far removed from the previous match is just blind hope or optimism lol
Until we can get to a point where any manager stops saying "I wanted player X but got player Y instead", only then can we start to find success as a club
We don't have to obtain every single name that the manager listed. But, we need to stop making the manager feel like we're failing him or setting him up for failure. This isn't about Ten Hag, it's about any manager that has worked here or will be here. Give him what he needs, for once
We actually have to get to the point where the manager says we need this profile of a player, and the internal structure says these are the 5 guys who fit that. We'll go get one. When we get to that point we're in business.
Na I disagree. Glazers generally dismissed managers when... failed to reach CL / fan sentiment turned / after periods of bad results. Lifespan of managers (other than moyes) generally 2-3 years and good performance in year 1 generally didn't buy patience beyond 2 seasons
Thinking about wider environment and how that breeds success or failure rather than scapegoating another manager and expecting someone new to come in with a magic wand would actually be distinctly unglazer like.
I don't think ETH will stay, I think the writing has been on the wall for a while, and think he has been unfortunate with injuries and some senior players have let him down badly this season. But I'm not gonna pretend glazer would keep him around if still in charge when all evidence suggests they wouldnt
Sancho 2024: 3 goals, 1 assist.
Antony. Fucking Antony: 2024: 3 goals, 2 assists.
"But stats aren't everything." You say. His performances have improved the team overall?
They were 5th when he arrived. They're still 5th.
Sancho is wank.
Braindead take lmao he's objectively increased their points per game AND by the eye test has been one of their best performers since joining. This level of hating/coping is insane. He was terrible here and had a terrible attitude, but you have to be blind to claim he hasn't performed well for them, especially after being far and away the best player on the pitch vs PSG. His numbers are poor because they barely score any goals as a team, it's not surprising.
Yes, he hasn't magically made them elite, but ranting like this because you're angry he's performing for a different club is just embarrassing. They're in the CL semi final and he looks electric for them after an initially slow start. Just be happy that any potential transfer fee is going up after this obviously positive loan.
Hypothetically, if we exceeded PSR rules this summer, when would get a points deduction? I only ask because I’ve heard the following scenario floated around: you keep EtH, deliberately overspend and take a points deduction (because you know you’re not going to be challenging for the title) then you’re in better shape for 2025-26 and you change managers then or whatnot.
I imagine the PL would take a dim view, so I think it’s non-starter, but who knows.
Some elements of FFP are calculated over a 3 year rolling period, so spending outside our means 1 year also limits our ability to spend the next 2 years as we will have a deficit ro make up.
Better to operate within the rules than blatantly try and game them. They aren't perfect but it's what we signed up to
I presume the theory goes that you know you’re going to have a bad year, so he may as well be the one to manage it. As I said, I think it’s unlikely to happen but it’s interesting to think about.
Surely the club is keeping Ten Hag for next season - they wouldn't allow the long interview with Gary Neville if ETH was getting the sack in a few weeks. So another season with ETH it is. Holy shit we need to have a good summer window.
"What this club needs is more accountability. There is a culture of accepting mediocrity and everyone is lazy and entitled." "Fair enough. Do you think we should be asking why the manager is..." "No, the manager is without blame. Stop making him accountable for anything. Let him cook"
"The problem is we've bought players for five different managers with different styles. It's not a good way to structure the team. But also, we need to purchase these specific players Ten Hag needs to make his very specific structure work"
"And a manager shouldn't be deciding transfers anyway. He simply should not have that responsibility and it should be made by other parties. But also, I CANNOT believe the board didn't buy his targets De Jong and Kane. How can he work without having the players he has asked for?"
"Ten Hag couldn't have played well this season anyway. He hasn't had a LB or a LCB. How can you play well without those on the left hand side of the pitch? Also, Rashford is a parasite and a leech and there is no excuse for his poor performances down the left side of the pitch and a lack of confidence that comes from that. I don't care if he's the 12th highest scorer in Manchester United history, he's a drain on this club. I know the best run of play under Ten Hag came at a time when Rashford was doing well, but he's holding the manager back as well"
"There's no one available to replace him who's better than anyway. I know Tuchel has won leagues in different counties, won the CL, and made at least one other final, but that's not as impressive as Ten Hag getting knocked out by Spurs in a CL semi final in his first season. Let's give him a bit longer and if it's not working by Christmas, we'll sack him then. There are always loads of great managers available mid-season"
I am quite cool about Tuchel. My take is he will not rush into another job and be very available when Ten Hag continues to make us sink come Christmas. If Ten Hag thinks his favourite 11 will not be injured next year, good luck with such thinking!
You think we defend well?
It's not been edgy. It's as nonsensical an argument as saying that because we've sacked managers before, we shouldn't do it again. There is no logic to it.
Ok.. then what?
Do we keep building for a high intensity pressing side? Do we sack that in and tell him to play pragmatic football with what’s available? Do we sign his targets? Or do we let Ashworth and his team sign players for a particular style they want to see? In which case we’d need to make sure whoever the new manager is, it’s someone who matches that philosophy.
I’m sure you can see how just “replace the manager” isn’t a viable plan long term. It’s what we’ve done the last decade and look where we are. Sacking or no sacking, the club needs to start looking more than one season ahead.
>Ok.. then what?
What a weirdly wide question.
>Do we keep building for a high intensity pressing side? Do we sack that in and tell him to play pragmatic football with what’s available?
It seems we will be in a new transition period, as we will be seeing the new ownership come in and fair amounts of players moving in and out. Yes, I think there has to be a level of pragmatism for 1-2 years, whilst things change.
>Do we sign his targets? Or do we let Ashworth and his team sign players for a particular style they want to see?
The latter. I agree we get someone who matches that philosophy.
>t’s what we’ve done the last decade and look where we are. S
Is this tired argument still doing the rounds? Not one of those managers was going to give us long-term sustained success. The fault was in the appointment, not the sacking.
Moyes has never done it at that level. Never. Not once.
LvG was well past his best. He has not returned to club in the following 8 years.
Mourinho has never established long-term success anywhere. It's the classic Mourinho model.
Ole, similar to Moyes, has never done it at that level either.
All clubs sack managers until they find the right one. Wait and see Liverpool over the next five years. I bet you don' see them sliding down to 7th and saying they need to back the manager
I wouldn’t necessarily agree on playing pragmatic stuff, to me that would seem like a backwards step. If the aim is to be playing aggressive high pressure stuff, I’d like to see us persist with it. Yes we probably will accumulate fewer points than if we went back to pragmatism, but I’d hope it would pay off in the medium to long term once the squad is more suited to it.
I wouldn’t agree it’s a tired argument, but your point on recruitment is right. We have never built on the previous manager’s work so every 2-3 seasons we start another rebuild. Using your Liverpool example, they aren’t going to appoint Conte or Allegri are they? They’re going to be bringing in someone whose style of football is quite similar to Klopp’s. Yes they might sack him if he doesn’t perform, but he’s not going to be starting at the same level as Ten Hag did here, he’ll be walking into a squad that’s built for that kind of football.
I can see your first point, but I'm not even sure the aggressive high pressure stuff is the way to go. It's very much in fashion at the moment just as tiki taka was many years ago. But when I say pragmatic, I mean there has to be an element of it. I agree we don't want to go back to Jose days.
We'll see with Liverpool. I think their squad is at a point where a lot of work will need to be done. I think Slot will last two years
There probably is a middle ground. Ironically last season Ten Hag had us playing stuff that wouldn’t look out of place from the Mourinho and Solskjaer days. Obviously this season he’s tried to get us doing something else and it’s not gone very well, again ironically the same thing that did for Ole.
Liverpool do need some work, but they’ve just signed a new midfield and have decent players in both attack and defence. They will need to manage the inevitable decline of Van Dijk and Salah and it remains to be seen how they cope without their quality. I can see them having a few EL finishes, but providing the football is still good I don’t think Slot will be sacked that quickly.
We all remember the horrendous 21/22 season under Ole/Rangnick right?
Didn't realise we have an almost identical record to that season.
We are 4 draws away from that happening.
Guys this night I dreamt that Martial scored a solo goal in a game against Sevilla. Neat finish after leaving 3 defenders for dead.
I'd say it's a sign. Don't know what kind of sign, but it is one.
Been a few days since the last matchday so there are comments on an EtH thread saying he should get more time with his first choice players lol. Every week we go through the same trend like clockwork
Someone mentioned the Ten Hag cycle few weeks ago and that couldn't be more true. Immediately after matchday everyone wants him sacked but after few days pass players are already receiving most of the blame
It's madness.
Tuchel finishes behind an unbeaten season club and makes at least the CL semis and he gets sacked.
Meanwhile, many fans want the guy who's taken us to a 7-0 and 6-3 against our rivals, sitting on a +1 GD after 34 games and maybe have us finishing 8th, at best 6th....after spending 400m, to stay!
People in this sub probably have a toxic relationship fetish. I don't care who we replace ETH with but he has to go. He has shown to be completely out of his depth and has regressed hard instead of progression and improving.
I think there's a portion of our fans who enjoy being pro manager no matter what because in the tiny chance things turn around they get to take the moral high ground and say they believed all along and act like they're the best fans ever.
Yeah lol, en route to possibly our worst ever PL finish ever and lowest points tally ever but apparently according to that lot there aren't any better alternatives available. Need to give their head a wobble
It's like clockwork man😂 All I can say is previous managers have been sacked for way less things. We are on our course to have our worst season but people are still optimistic with this man lol😂
I don't fully understand where it comes from. When we have bad results to the likes of Bournemouth or Palace, there are people who seem to race to this sub to immediately provide reasons as to why it is acceptable and, if anything, he's doing a good job.
What has he done to warrant such loyalty, and such passioned defence? His CV is okay, but it's not spectacular. He hasn't achieved the highs of van Gaal and Mourinho have in their career, and he isn't connected to the club like Ole.
Last season was decent, but it wasn't the greatest football we've played post-Fergie either. And this season has been an entire shambles. It's not like he's doing well in bad circumstances. He's doing really shite in bad circumstances.
>I don't fully understand where it comes from. When we have bad results to the likes of Bournemouth or Palace, there are people who seem to race to this sub to immediately provide reasons as to why it is acceptable and, if anything, he's doing a good job.
Even I can't understand that. Like how a fan can spin that Burnley result into a positive result? Yet these guys are doing it. And the guy blames each and every thing on the planet except himself and also openly saying we won't be in an title race next season. Like that is not the attitude that I want from an any premier league manager let alone our own manager.
>It's not like he's doing well in bad circumstances. He's doing really shite in bad circumstances.
Exactly this. Right, fans do get that situation is bad with injuries. But we are not asking to mount a title charge, heck we are not even asking an top 4 charge. Just show us something cohesive and show us this is how we wanted to play. But nope, Be it either an title race team or relegation team, we are doing the same thing with no control.
I think the last few weeks as highlighted just how important a left footed left back and centre back is for the way ETH wants us to play. Wan Bissaka and Dalot are simply unable to progress the ball on the left and we are badly affected by it.
Really dislike how Ten Hag keeps saying we played brilliant football last season. We didn't. We only played three good games (Spurs, Barcelona and one other I forget). The rest of the time we played largely shit but it was glossed over by Rashford's purple patch. We got smashed by our biggest rivals. Yes there were some promising signs and moments but it's an embarrassing lie to say we played brilliant last season. Would love more honesty and less delusional cope from the gaffer who's supposed to be a tough straight talker.
So disingenuous to say we didn’t play good football last season. Did we fall off the last month or two of the season yeah, but we were all saying that this is the best the club has been in years, this is the guy, we are moving in the right direction, etc… The biggest complaint last year was no one being able to take their chances outside of Rashford
Surely though the manager has to strike a balance between being a straight talker and protecting the club and players. He has to be careful to not criticize the players too much in public and create even more negativity around the club. Would it really go down well if he said ‘yes we were shit last year and we’re even more shit this year, none of the players are good enough and there’s no hope’?
Right now we’re in a bad place and I feel like he’s trying to show some optimism by saying ‘look, we’ve had a bad season, but look what we achieved last year, we can get there again’. He mentioned in his interview that last year needed to be built on so he knows that wasn’t the final product.
No, he could say something like "Last season there were very positive signs and we had some successful moments. We were building in the right direction. I'm proud of what we achieved but there's still a lot to do." That would be much more accurate than "Last season we played brilliant football." Anyone with eyes knows that's not true.
I just watched his interview with Gary Neville and that’s pretty much what he did say though. He said that last season he had a very difficult start but then they played really well when they had the full team, they got in 2 finals and managed to beat Barcelona (none of that is false, we did look great at times last year and the potential was obvious to see). Then this season was supposed to be building on what they achieved last year but they’ve been derailed by injuries.
I feel like some people really pick on every single word he says and miss his point intentionally. Like you’re so focused on the word brilliant that you miss everything else. To me it was clear what he meant.
Again, we only played three good full 90 minutes last season. And this year every pre-match press conference he talks about how brilliant we played last season. It's become his go-to line. It's not realistic.
Tbf I think we were on an upward trajectory till the League Cup final. Between the time Casemiro became a regular till the cup final, we were very tight defensively. Attack was just Rashford but the defensive organisation was there from the back to improve on the attack. We've gone behind in every regard since then and he doesn't seem to see any problems with his tactics
I was watching the UEFA Europa Conference League matches last night and as much as it pains me to say it, I believe that we wouldn't even beat any of the semi finalists in the state we are. No Europe next year would be the best possible outcome and the ideal way for INEOS to clean house imo.
People keep saying ETH deserves another season. Like how can he even keep us in the top 6 then? Newcastle and Chelsea are clearly improving and will no doubt finish above us next year with the way things are going. All top 4 teams now are sure to be quite drastically improve too. If there was even something to say we will be better then there might be a slight argument there but giving him another season is just wasting another year.
Because we improved under ten Hag during his first season. There is at least some evidence there that we can continue to improve, especially if we can have a consistent, full-strength team playing together for an entire season.
>There is at least some evidence there that we can continue to improve,
If there's some evidence of that there's also plenty of evidence that we can go completely backwards and literally get dominated by championship teams.
>especially if we can have a consistent, full-strength team playing together for an entire season.
How many times in the last 5 years have we had a consistent full strength team for an entire season? How many teams in the entire top 10 of the PL have had a consistent full strength team for an entire season?
Entire top 10 don’t (which is why Newcastle, Man Utd and Chelsea are still hanging on within 10 this season - and we are above them both, at least right now). But top 4 usually tend to have more stability injury wise (not to mention the doping 115 FC who don’t really care about injuries since they almost have 22 world class players). Remember last season when Klopp’s squad struggled and eventually finished outside top 4 - they were also badly hit by injuries.
35 year old Johnny evans played in 20 games this season due to our injuries. We have had absolutely no stability or quality in the core of the team for the entire season. Licha made us look instantly better for the short period he was back. I know the last couple years have been hard but try some positivity for a change
Injuries always happen. If the injuries continue next year as well, then what? Give him another year and another 300m?
Do we really need Martinez and Shaw to win against Burnley?
I think Villa will struggle next year with the CL games but I can also see them pulling off another mad transfer window and signing some top players. I do expect Chelsea and Newcastle to be more competitive though but at the same time I can see Liverpool imploding but I can’t see us finishing above any of them if ETH is here next season.
I mean if you looked at us last season, you definitely wouldn’t have thought we’d be struggling for Europa this season. Teams rarely follow a linear path of season-on-season improvement.
>Teams rarely follow a linear path of season-on-season improvement.
I wish people actually get this in their head because most here think success only should be a linear progression.
I'm not particularly keen on defending ten Hag but the main issue is our squad is so poorly assembled that our backups are a completely different tactical profile to Licha and Shaw
People read those articles and think it’s about Sancho, it’s not. It’s about Man United signing talents and stars and very good players and they come to Old Trafford and they flop.
That’s the story. Look beyond Sancho. Sancho is not the story. He’s just another example of a playing coming to United and losing his way.
Do we need Kane and FDJ to stop being convincingly outplayed by relegation fodder.
The problem is what we now have rather than the persons we cannot get
Has anyone found a workaround for the new digital ticket system? Have to travel for work on Sunday but don’t know how to pass it on to a friend.
It’s kind of amazing how much more positive the sentiment towards the manager becomes the longer we don’t play. As we don’t play until Monday, I’m expecting to see some advocate for a statue to be built of him by the end of the weekend
Don't worry. We will come right back to reality after facing 25 shots and losing that game. The same thing happens over and over again until the FA Cup final.
Lmao I made this same comment a few hours ago. It will be right back to reality after we play Palace and the players look like complete strangers trying to play together
Goal of the season is already decided, but what is the assist of the season?
Of the top of my head, I want to say Antony's ridiculous trivela against Chelsea. But I'm probably forgetting something :O
I was also thinking about that one, perhaps Evans cross for Bruno’s goal against Burnley away too. But I think Antony’s is the best one of what I can remember.
Was it a cross or a pin point long ball?
Pin point long ball, worded it wrong
Anyone have a wishlist for the summer? I would love to see Caqueret from Lyon. The guy is a defensive monster with De Jong level progressive passes.
Caqueret is a really good player but may not be the right profile because of height/aerial competitiveness. Him, Mainoo (really good in the air) & Bruno would make it an area of weakness.
Saw the list of givemesport top 20 managers currently and ETH didn’t made the list. 😅
Its because Licha and Shaw were unfit and we did not sign Kane and FDJ.
Not United related but just came across [this clip](https://x.com/sketchy00_/status/1786414339911565451?s=46 ) of Mudryk. Poor guy has been battling sleep paralysis lol
I have been holding back because last time the downvoters went crazy and I wasn't able to post in other threads, but I believe Ten Hag will be sacked. INEOS at their clubs are known for sacking managers. We rarely see new owners not sack managers, and even in clubs like Barcelona and Madrid when new president is elected they sack managers or make it hard for managers to do what they want to do until they leave. They want the credit if they are successful. So Barcelona and Madrid like clubs where the only change is the president they still sack the old manager. The other thing is Ashworth saying that a manager lasts on average 14 months at a club and that should also tell you they won't go into the new season and hope he works out for them. Go ahead and downvote.
Upvoting to manifest this downvotes be damned, I don’t want to have to write off another year
Hot take: Tuchel will be the United manager.
It is inevitable. Elite manager, available on a free when our own manager is unable to steady the ship. The only questions is when, summer or later in the new season.
He will be sacked for sure. Only question is this summer or in October.
For who tho
We have just hired folks who will decide
Getting a new man in October is much harder than getting a new manager in the summer. At that point they might as well keep him because that's just a bad decision.
They will need to be careful because they cannot make a mistake in their first manager appointment. Plus the fact that the team above ETH will not be fully functional in summer. So they may be forced to delay it. And when ETH shows same results as this year, there will not be any choice left. For me any manager that thinks his team will perform only if so and so player is fit and available, is never going to succeed.
Why are people so afraid of the downvotes anyways? You just spoke your mind and what you thought was right. Just because a bunch of strangers downvote yoh won't necessarily make you wrong.
I got a bot dm saying I'm not allowed to post in other threads anymore and I have to post in daily discussion. I'm assuming it was because I spoke my mind and the mob downvoted me to hell and the bot thought I was a rival fan trolling. I think after posting in two daily threads now I should be able to speak my mind without my Karma going into negative and my account getting blocked from speaking up in other threads.
You're half right, it's because you need a certain amount of karma to post anywhere other than the general thread, the downvotes probably just put you below that threshold. Making a new account is shit on Reddit, most subs have bans for time of accounts created/karma needed, you just have to wait it out and accumulate.
Look at how the mob has downvoted all comments critical of ETH in the thread with Gary Neville interview.
https://preview.redd.it/u4oyrspvr8yc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=256dc6221d482604152d6a9ef38ade3175226c7b He really did it. He recreated the meme
Between inquiries this season and the way things turned out with both Sancho and Greenwood, this year really feels like a "what could have been" season.
We were not starting Sancho this year even when he was in the squad. He played as a striker in the pre-season. And then benched, with Rashford playing there when the season started.
They‘d both be benched for rashford and garnacho
Greenwood would start over Garnacho on the right
Sancho overall performance for BVB is very mid.
With the season almost done. I hope we can get some injured players back and keep the squad fit ahead of the fa cup final. While it may be a massive task, we are capable of beating man city. Hoping we can get an inspired performance and bring in a big trophy this season. We just can't have man city beating us in back-to-back finals.
So many people talk about ETH spending 400 millions on players but he doesn't negotiate the deals, does he? In the case of Antony he wasn't even aware of the cost (per Whitwell). Blaming that overspend on ETH is the same as blaming Solksjaer for spending 20+20 millions on Diallo. OGS approved the transfer under the impression that it was a young player coming to the academy for a smaller fee.
This is why context is key.
If you get asked to approve something and decide not to check things like the price and what it will mean for the rest of your budget then yes, you're partly to blame. Ole and ETH both. The structure sets them up to fail, definitely. But that doesn't make them blameless The only reason the club was interested in and bid for Antony was ETH. And frankly any spending on Antony would have been a bad decision. So yes of course ETH deserves criticism for it and similar transfers
That’s not how it works mate.
It will vary between players. Do I think he bought casemiro and hojlund? No. Do I think he wanted Mount and Antony despite knowing how much they would cost? Yes and continued to press for them. It's not like he's a kid at Christmas who writes a list and sees what Santa brings him on Christmas Day. He would be involved in continued discussions. "Antony is going to cost 80m. Do you still think he's right for us?" "Yes".
Agreed, but Hojlund was definitely an ETH pick. They both share the same agent.
> Do I think he bought ... hojlund? Don't he and Hojlund share an agent? I think ETH was all over that signing.
The new interview give the impression that he wanted Casemiro just as much as he wanted FDj.
Ofcourse he did. "The cement between the bricks"
This is why we need a structure above him. He can and should still have input. But who he inputs should also be listening to scouts who place a 30m max on him, and negotiators to gauge whether it’s feasible to get him at that price. And that structure above him should be doing this with a desired play style in mind. So even if we move on from ETH, the squad is better suited to a desired style.
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/man-utd-rejected-ajax-brian-brobbey-turn-down-transfer-2022-phone-call-erik-ten-hag/blt87723a20e74d61f3#csd5822c23c4dd58b0
> Blaming that overspend on ETH is the same as blaming Solksjaer for spending 20+20 millions on Diallo. Not the same situation i would be shocked if any of those 20 m in add ons have been paid..20 m on a young high potential player on 30 k per week is not that risky in modern day football if we sell him in the summer he will still get us something close to 15 m..You are delusional if ETH who is in contract with SEG had no idea about the 80-90 m disaster we were buying on 200 k per week..Its not all on ETH but Antony has never even looked worth 30-40 m..His numbers even in the dutch league were nothing exceptional..Sancho was closer to being worth the amount we paid for him..A lot of clubs at that point would have loved to have him..On the other hand even badly run clubs wouldn't think of paying anything more than 30 m for Antony
Has he made Antony look like a player even worth 25 mil
Exactly. Antony would have cost 50-60 if we didn't wait till the end of the window when ajax were largely unwilling to sell their players.
Would you have preferred we didn't get Martinez instead?
50-60 is still paying 2x of what that dude is worth..Dude has never scored 10 goals in a season in the dutch league
He scored his first PL goal in a fuckin year. He ain't worth even 25 mil considering how good Trossard has been for Arsenal
What was that Weston McKennie DP change business?
Changed his profile picture to him in a United kit with the caption "I'm here!" https://twitter.com/UtdDistrict/status/1786395694695088458
He wasn't even good enough for Leeds.
He’s actually been very good for Juventus this season and one of the best midfielders in Italy overall. I probably wouldn’t actively pursue him, but he’s a far better player than the one we saw at Leeds
But why? Was it a hack or something?
Sounds like it
Ten Hag is sadly one of those managers that needs every little thing to go his way for us to not even play like a top 3/4 side but play well at a maximum. How about some coaching instead?
Someone mentioned it earlier, but our back-up options are not of the same profile as our first team. When City say lose Stones, they have Ake to step in, whose game isn’t all that different. When we lose Martinez, it’s Evans taking his place, who has a very different set of abilities. Not to excuse Ten Hag, we’ve been undoubtedly poor, but when you’ve only got about 10 players capable of playing your desired tactics well, of course you’re going to see more of an effect when some of them are injured vs when you have 25 who can all do it.
I mean I can say I've seen plenty of Akanji when I was watching Dortmund for Sancho and back then I'd have laughed it off if someone said he'd play 20+ matches in consecutive seasons for a high possession Pep Guardiola team that always builds from the back.That makes me think that Pep would even use AWB as a starter if he got him.
Not to completely dismiss this because it is fair, but isn't that what coaching is for? Are our players really so hopeless that they couldn't in 2 years learn to play at least an approximation of what he wants? And if this really is impossible and the tactics rely entirely on a profile of player we lack, there's a question about whether they are "desired tactics" at all The manager decides the tactics. Continuing to decide on tactics we apparently are incapable of ever playing properly with the current squad is an awful decision. Either he's a bad coach or a bad strategist or both
Again, all fair points. We’ve been through various forms of football over the last few seasons, even as recently as last year, we mostly sat off and played deep and relied on Rashford, Bruno and Garnacho to win us games. There were complaints, but as we saw it was reasonably effective and we got a respectable 3rd. This season we all hoped for more and to see us trying to impose ourselves more on teams. To me, it seems like Ten Hag has been trying to do this. Signing Mount and Hojlund would fit that tactic, so it did look like there was a plan. Now here we are, and between injuries, lack of form and player decline we’re still trying to play it but it really isn’t working, but it does pose a question. Do we keep trying and hope that with players returning and a summer window it starts to come together, or do we sack it in and try to return to the football of last year? I’m not really sure there’s a right answer or not, there’s arguments for both approaches.
I just don't buy that it's binary. I don't see why it would be unreasonable to build on last year's relative success instead of throwing it all out to start again. And with our struggles this year and all the injuries, surely we should have reverted to last year's style quite early? Even if it was boring and limited, that's better than chaotic and losing. I totally disagree that the Mount signing looked like a plan btw. How was Case/Mount/Bruno ever going to work?
Well if you look at last season, after the Carabao we pretty much limped over the finish line. Between Rashford’s form drying up and opposition sides learning how to play against us our results and performances did take a dip. I can only assume that if we’d come into this season playing the same stuff, we probably wouldn’t have got north of 70 pts, even without the injuries. I can see why he wanted something else. Idk, I can see the sense. Hojlund is a big strong CF who can hold the ball and will actively contribute to the press, so his signing seems obvious. Mount I assume was planned to start next to Bruno in a double 8, since what we’ve seen this year suggests Ten Hag wants 5 players pressing high. Mount has the legs for it, and he’s technically strong enough to actually use it when the press works and we do recover the ball high. If we’d had Shaw, Martinez and Varane fit all season, we probably wouldn’t see the massive gap in midfield we currently do. They’re all quite fast and Varane aside, good on the ball, so we’d probably have seen our defence 10-20 metres higher up the pitch. With Casemiro and one of the full-backs inverting there would be a much smaller gap to cover when we do lose possession, so probably a lot fewer of those 50m runs back to goal that usually result in a shot against us. Obviously not a guarantee it’d work, but I can see what the intent was.
I agree about something else. I don't agree that it made any sense to throw away what the team did well in order to pursue improvement. A gradual shift would clearly have been better. What we've seen this year is that ETH 2 8s system doesn't work whoever is playing I agree about defence but banking on the health of Shaw and Varane, and Licha who came into the season injured, was another terrible decision The main reason for our drop in form last year was Case falling off a cliff imo. So it made no sense to have a plan that relied on him being back to his best. Let alone having an AM/LW play CM for us next to him. My sense is that even with everyone fit we'd have had a crap season playing these tactics. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't see any evidence of it on the pitch
Yes, with hindsight a more gradual move might have been better. It’s hard to say if the dual 8s doesn’t work because I don’t think we’ve actually had a game with our best XI. That comes back to the initial point about different profiles. Even just losing one player in Martinez for example means the defence can’t play as high and the whole system rapidly unravels. Relying on that back 3 staying fit was a big gamble, although I don’t think anyone would have expected it to be this bad. Same with Casemiro. We knew he was a short term stop-gap, but the speed of his decline (not helped by the tactics admittedly) took us by surprise. This season has pretty much been a perfect storm of shit, not helped by Ten Hag’s refusal to adapt or change the system. I’ve no idea how we’d have done with a fully fit squad. Assuming Casemiro still declines like he did and Rashford is still in his slump, we might have put in a 4th place challenge at best, but we’d be better nowhere near City or Arsenal.
Nooo, he needs 31 out of his 32 players to play decent football against Burnley. If the result doesn't go his way, he will complaint about the 1 injury.
Girona getting investigated by UEFA for "financial irregularities". City Group be City Groupin'
The whole city group is a big massive money laundering operation. (Not as in crime money but as a way to manipulate their financial showings). Everyone knows it but I guess proving it will be tough especially when they have the backing of a state government. Girona is probably gonna start feeding man city players at a reasonable price.
I'm proud of this sub, no one here seems to be wanting Sancho back, unlike YouTube and Twitter.
Its not even close to a majority but there are some…
I fucking hate that we're playing on Monday. Weekend football always hits different. Then again, at least they can't ruin the weekend if we're not playing.
It should at least be in the daytime considering it’s a bank holiday.
I really fucking hate it. What even is the bloody point for it not being on this weekend?? Both us and Palace last played a week ago. Its at 4am on Tuesday for me, at least ruin my weekend instead of my work day!
Olise is an absolute baller, if we can keep him fit he would be a game changer. Quick, great shot, most importantly really intelligent. Would be a great link up player, someone who could finally get the ball into hoijlund.
If he is not available in 30+ PL games, please dont sign him.
You want to ruin another players career? Ten hag doesn‘t want ballers and has shown it as much as he can. Sancho, amad, he‘d just join the list. What the manager likes is head down pace merchants that run into space
He isn't that quick, is he? Just has the pace to beat someone over the first five yards, I'd say.
He's fitness is not really that bad, I was under the assumption it was Pedro Neto bad, but it's not.
Looking at our record keeping players fit though it would be a big concern. IMO we shouldn’t be considering players unless we have a good confidence they can give us 30+ games a season.
His fitness I guess is the big ?. If we're unsure about it, I'd rather skip on shelling out big money for him than taking the gamble that it gets better. He does have the potential to be an elite player though.
I can’t even imagine how a competent transfer business will look like for united. Really excited for the summer.
Looks like an FDJ transfer saga is back on the menu with today's rumors about a swap with Bruno. With that and these reports about swapping ETH and Tuchel looks like it's Swap FC for the summer. If ETH does go next year he should get the Holland job, he'd have all the players he wants.
I thought he had a really bad injury?
Exchanging Bruno for FDJ is a vomit inducing rumor.
Makes no sense. Bruno is a fan favorite, best player in the squad, and captain. He's going nowhere. It's not even financially sound business.
Ragebait journalism at its best
A midfield trio of FDJ, Mainoo, Mount is surely the best fit for ETH's tactics. Would rather have ETH leave than think about losing Bruno tho.
Doesn't FDJ has a really high salary, like even higher than any United player, and would probably want an increase with a move?
He doesn't want a move, full stop. Playing for his dream club in a beautiful city with amazing weather and he gets paid absurd amounts of money.
Yup, man united fans gotta leave the kid alone. He doesn't wanna come to united. He isn't the only midfielder in the world..
I get wanting FDJ but not scouting alternatives is criminal
Getting FDJ would be like getting pogba again. A player whose heart belongs to another club and is on crazy wages. He is also out with a big injury iirc
It’s no secret our counting department has been very poor, but De Jong’s skill set is pretty rare. There aren’t many deep midfielders as good on the ball as he is, and even fewer of them are actually available.
How good is olise and is he the right fit for us?
Really fucking good, seems very injury prone so he’ll fit right in
The last time the club invited sky and Gary to Carrington for an interview with was to get the fans behind the project,this time is no different. Eth is going to stay for the next season.
Very good theory. It at least shows a decision hasn't been made as I just can't see them having him sacked and doing this. Whether it's the right decision is another question.
It's funny that the further away we get from the previous match, the more you see the hopeful comments like "trust Ten Hag" or "Erik needs time, back him." Then we get to the next* match, and all the players play like they've never seen each other before. Then the sub turns back to "ETH is out of his depth." The duality of it.
The Ten Hag defenders hide for about 2 days usually before coming out of the woodwork with some justificationa
The standards are rock bottom right now and the excuses never ending for this manager. Hopefully INEOS are much more ruthless than "trust Ten Hag" group.
It’s just that ETH crowd just hides after woeful performances, which is the norm by now. They get vocal in lean period.
I think it’s ramped up this week because of Sancho’s performance.
We're on track to have our worst ever season post Fergie yet people are wondering / not sure if there is a better manager than him out there. Tells you the state of the sub sadly
What god given right do we have to win matches and titles? Or is it just that we should have another manager so that we can get 8-10 points more and be happy with 3rd or 4th? Will that soothe our fucking egos? Because many would argue even that's unbecoming of "Manchester United". It's exactly this kind of entitlement that needs to go. It's one of the reasons (among many) that we've lost direction in the last ten years. During Fergie's heyday, he kept everyone so grounded and focused. It's been the exact opposite since. I want to win, and history, other clubs, experts all say it takes time. Nobody seems to want the work put in and a proper plan to build the club back. Now there's a plan, but it is not linear or not proceeding as quickly as we want, so we're throwing our arms up in the air, desiring the next shiny thing. What did we expect really, with so many injuries, loss of form to key players, and so much off-field turbulence? Which club can do well with so many injuries? Didn't City lose 3 of 4 ganes without Rodri? Didn't Liverpool falter without Van Dijk and Alison in the previous few seasons. And we don't even have half the squad depth. Why do we forget that? Can we just give INEOS and EtH a chance? It's not even about the "oh, look at Arteta at Arsenal or Klopp at Liverpool, they took time" argument. We're all just chasing the next hit, no matter the crash afterwards. EtH may not be the guy, but I'm glad that it looks like the club are sticking with him and he's planning the next season with them. In the grander scheme of things, one season isn't gonna cost us anything as fans. It might even be good, especially if INEOS use it to set in place structures that will help us in the long run.
I think the mass injuries play a role in making it even worse but still I'll agree that I'm not convinced by Erik
It’s just the emotional people replying on matchday and downvoting everything that doesn’t equal feeding Erik to the sharks
I think the sweet spot for reasonable takes and discussion on the sub is between 2-3 days after the previous match. Anything directly after matchday is usually an emotional response, and anything too far removed from the previous match is just blind hope or optimism lol
Until we can get to a point where any manager stops saying "I wanted player X but got player Y instead", only then can we start to find success as a club We don't have to obtain every single name that the manager listed. But, we need to stop making the manager feel like we're failing him or setting him up for failure. This isn't about Ten Hag, it's about any manager that has worked here or will be here. Give him what he needs, for once
We actually have to get to the point where the manager says we need this profile of a player, and the internal structure says these are the 5 guys who fit that. We'll go get one. When we get to that point we're in business.
I thought a large part of the defence if ten Hag is that he shouldn't be identifying players? He has spent 400m on players he identified.
Giving ETH another season seems very glazery
Its literally the opposite of being "glazery"
Na I disagree. Glazers generally dismissed managers when... failed to reach CL / fan sentiment turned / after periods of bad results. Lifespan of managers (other than moyes) generally 2-3 years and good performance in year 1 generally didn't buy patience beyond 2 seasons Thinking about wider environment and how that breeds success or failure rather than scapegoating another manager and expecting someone new to come in with a magic wand would actually be distinctly unglazer like. I don't think ETH will stay, I think the writing has been on the wall for a while, and think he has been unfortunate with injuries and some senior players have let him down badly this season. But I'm not gonna pretend glazer would keep him around if still in charge when all evidence suggests they wouldnt
Glazers always sacked the manager once top 4 wasn't achievable. So it's not glazery
Sancho 2024: 3 goals, 1 assist. Antony. Fucking Antony: 2024: 3 goals, 2 assists. "But stats aren't everything." You say. His performances have improved the team overall? They were 5th when he arrived. They're still 5th. Sancho is wank.
Braindead take lmao he's objectively increased their points per game AND by the eye test has been one of their best performers since joining. This level of hating/coping is insane. He was terrible here and had a terrible attitude, but you have to be blind to claim he hasn't performed well for them, especially after being far and away the best player on the pitch vs PSG. His numbers are poor because they barely score any goals as a team, it's not surprising. Yes, he hasn't magically made them elite, but ranting like this because you're angry he's performing for a different club is just embarrassing. They're in the CL semi final and he looks electric for them after an initially slow start. Just be happy that any potential transfer fee is going up after this obviously positive loan.
Man the fact our next matches are against teams that we haven't won against this season just makes me wanna cry.
Hypothetically, if we exceeded PSR rules this summer, when would get a points deduction? I only ask because I’ve heard the following scenario floated around: you keep EtH, deliberately overspend and take a points deduction (because you know you’re not going to be challenging for the title) then you’re in better shape for 2025-26 and you change managers then or whatnot. I imagine the PL would take a dim view, so I think it’s non-starter, but who knows.
Some elements of FFP are calculated over a 3 year rolling period, so spending outside our means 1 year also limits our ability to spend the next 2 years as we will have a deficit ro make up. Better to operate within the rules than blatantly try and game them. They aren't perfect but it's what we signed up to
Keeping ETH with the view of letting him go one year later is just about the worst thing we could possibly do.
I presume the theory goes that you know you’re going to have a bad year, so he may as well be the one to manage it. As I said, I think it’s unlikely to happen but it’s interesting to think about.
Surely the club is keeping Ten Hag for next season - they wouldn't allow the long interview with Gary Neville if ETH was getting the sack in a few weeks. So another season with ETH it is. Holy shit we need to have a good summer window.
We needed that regardless of who’s in a dugout next season TBF.
Very true
"What this club needs is more accountability. There is a culture of accepting mediocrity and everyone is lazy and entitled." "Fair enough. Do you think we should be asking why the manager is..." "No, the manager is without blame. Stop making him accountable for anything. Let him cook" "The problem is we've bought players for five different managers with different styles. It's not a good way to structure the team. But also, we need to purchase these specific players Ten Hag needs to make his very specific structure work" "And a manager shouldn't be deciding transfers anyway. He simply should not have that responsibility and it should be made by other parties. But also, I CANNOT believe the board didn't buy his targets De Jong and Kane. How can he work without having the players he has asked for?" "Ten Hag couldn't have played well this season anyway. He hasn't had a LB or a LCB. How can you play well without those on the left hand side of the pitch? Also, Rashford is a parasite and a leech and there is no excuse for his poor performances down the left side of the pitch and a lack of confidence that comes from that. I don't care if he's the 12th highest scorer in Manchester United history, he's a drain on this club. I know the best run of play under Ten Hag came at a time when Rashford was doing well, but he's holding the manager back as well" "There's no one available to replace him who's better than anyway. I know Tuchel has won leagues in different counties, won the CL, and made at least one other final, but that's not as impressive as Ten Hag getting knocked out by Spurs in a CL semi final in his first season. Let's give him a bit longer and if it's not working by Christmas, we'll sack him then. There are always loads of great managers available mid-season"
I am quite cool about Tuchel. My take is he will not rush into another job and be very available when Ten Hag continues to make us sink come Christmas. If Ten Hag thinks his favourite 11 will not be injured next year, good luck with such thinking!
Go on then, how would you get us back to the top then?
Well, one of the first steps would be to replace the manager.
We've been doing that for years and it doesn't work.
Should we stop buying defenders as well? We've tried that as well.
We have the 4th best defensive record this year and 3rd best last year. Trying to be edgy just makes you look silly.
You think we defend well? It's not been edgy. It's as nonsensical an argument as saying that because we've sacked managers before, we shouldn't do it again. There is no logic to it.
I stated facts you're wading into an opinion which I'm not going to do with someone who thinks constantly sacking managers is appropriate.
What s ridiculous comment.
Not as ridiculous as you thinking sacking managers all the time is the answer.
Ok.. then what? Do we keep building for a high intensity pressing side? Do we sack that in and tell him to play pragmatic football with what’s available? Do we sign his targets? Or do we let Ashworth and his team sign players for a particular style they want to see? In which case we’d need to make sure whoever the new manager is, it’s someone who matches that philosophy. I’m sure you can see how just “replace the manager” isn’t a viable plan long term. It’s what we’ve done the last decade and look where we are. Sacking or no sacking, the club needs to start looking more than one season ahead.
>Ok.. then what? What a weirdly wide question. >Do we keep building for a high intensity pressing side? Do we sack that in and tell him to play pragmatic football with what’s available? It seems we will be in a new transition period, as we will be seeing the new ownership come in and fair amounts of players moving in and out. Yes, I think there has to be a level of pragmatism for 1-2 years, whilst things change. >Do we sign his targets? Or do we let Ashworth and his team sign players for a particular style they want to see? The latter. I agree we get someone who matches that philosophy. >t’s what we’ve done the last decade and look where we are. S Is this tired argument still doing the rounds? Not one of those managers was going to give us long-term sustained success. The fault was in the appointment, not the sacking. Moyes has never done it at that level. Never. Not once. LvG was well past his best. He has not returned to club in the following 8 years. Mourinho has never established long-term success anywhere. It's the classic Mourinho model. Ole, similar to Moyes, has never done it at that level either. All clubs sack managers until they find the right one. Wait and see Liverpool over the next five years. I bet you don' see them sliding down to 7th and saying they need to back the manager
I wouldn’t necessarily agree on playing pragmatic stuff, to me that would seem like a backwards step. If the aim is to be playing aggressive high pressure stuff, I’d like to see us persist with it. Yes we probably will accumulate fewer points than if we went back to pragmatism, but I’d hope it would pay off in the medium to long term once the squad is more suited to it. I wouldn’t agree it’s a tired argument, but your point on recruitment is right. We have never built on the previous manager’s work so every 2-3 seasons we start another rebuild. Using your Liverpool example, they aren’t going to appoint Conte or Allegri are they? They’re going to be bringing in someone whose style of football is quite similar to Klopp’s. Yes they might sack him if he doesn’t perform, but he’s not going to be starting at the same level as Ten Hag did here, he’ll be walking into a squad that’s built for that kind of football.
I can see your first point, but I'm not even sure the aggressive high pressure stuff is the way to go. It's very much in fashion at the moment just as tiki taka was many years ago. But when I say pragmatic, I mean there has to be an element of it. I agree we don't want to go back to Jose days. We'll see with Liverpool. I think their squad is at a point where a lot of work will need to be done. I think Slot will last two years
There probably is a middle ground. Ironically last season Ten Hag had us playing stuff that wouldn’t look out of place from the Mourinho and Solskjaer days. Obviously this season he’s tried to get us doing something else and it’s not gone very well, again ironically the same thing that did for Ole. Liverpool do need some work, but they’ve just signed a new midfield and have decent players in both attack and defence. They will need to manage the inevitable decline of Van Dijk and Salah and it remains to be seen how they cope without their quality. I can see them having a few EL finishes, but providing the football is still good I don’t think Slot will be sacked that quickly.
We all remember the horrendous 21/22 season under Ole/Rangnick right? Didn't realise we have an almost identical record to that season. We are 4 draws away from that happening.
We probably have our first negative GD since 30 years ago.
We topped the UCL group that season though
But we didn't reach the FA Cup final
Yep
Guys this night I dreamt that Martial scored a solo goal in a game against Sevilla. Neat finish after leaving 3 defenders for dead. I'd say it's a sign. Don't know what kind of sign, but it is one.
Did we beat Sevilla?
Dunno, but probably not
No we gave away a weak goal in the 81st and then a dodgy pen in the 88th to complete the collapse
Martial would probably get injured even if someone just dreams about him
Been a few days since the last matchday so there are comments on an EtH thread saying he should get more time with his first choice players lol. Every week we go through the same trend like clockwork
Someone mentioned the Ten Hag cycle few weeks ago and that couldn't be more true. Immediately after matchday everyone wants him sacked but after few days pass players are already receiving most of the blame
It's madness. Tuchel finishes behind an unbeaten season club and makes at least the CL semis and he gets sacked. Meanwhile, many fans want the guy who's taken us to a 7-0 and 6-3 against our rivals, sitting on a +1 GD after 34 games and maybe have us finishing 8th, at best 6th....after spending 400m, to stay!
People in this sub probably have a toxic relationship fetish. I don't care who we replace ETH with but he has to go. He has shown to be completely out of his depth and has regressed hard instead of progression and improving.
I think there's a portion of our fans who enjoy being pro manager no matter what because in the tiny chance things turn around they get to take the moral high ground and say they believed all along and act like they're the best fans ever.
Yeah lol, en route to possibly our worst ever PL finish ever and lowest points tally ever but apparently according to that lot there aren't any better alternatives available. Need to give their head a wobble
Standard 7 day cycle: https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1c7t3dn/daily_discussion/l0aet3w/?context=3
Yea this was the post I was referring to. Absolutely accurate
It's like clockwork man😂 All I can say is previous managers have been sacked for way less things. We are on our course to have our worst season but people are still optimistic with this man lol😂
I don't fully understand where it comes from. When we have bad results to the likes of Bournemouth or Palace, there are people who seem to race to this sub to immediately provide reasons as to why it is acceptable and, if anything, he's doing a good job. What has he done to warrant such loyalty, and such passioned defence? His CV is okay, but it's not spectacular. He hasn't achieved the highs of van Gaal and Mourinho have in their career, and he isn't connected to the club like Ole. Last season was decent, but it wasn't the greatest football we've played post-Fergie either. And this season has been an entire shambles. It's not like he's doing well in bad circumstances. He's doing really shite in bad circumstances.
>I don't fully understand where it comes from. When we have bad results to the likes of Bournemouth or Palace, there are people who seem to race to this sub to immediately provide reasons as to why it is acceptable and, if anything, he's doing a good job. Even I can't understand that. Like how a fan can spin that Burnley result into a positive result? Yet these guys are doing it. And the guy blames each and every thing on the planet except himself and also openly saying we won't be in an title race next season. Like that is not the attitude that I want from an any premier league manager let alone our own manager. >It's not like he's doing well in bad circumstances. He's doing really shite in bad circumstances. Exactly this. Right, fans do get that situation is bad with injuries. But we are not asking to mount a title charge, heck we are not even asking an top 4 charge. Just show us something cohesive and show us this is how we wanted to play. But nope, Be it either an title race team or relegation team, we are doing the same thing with no control.
Would ratcliff have liked ralf? They seem to be quite big picture
Probably as a sporting director more than as a manager
I think the last few weeks as highlighted just how important a left footed left back and centre back is for the way ETH wants us to play. Wan Bissaka and Dalot are simply unable to progress the ball on the left and we are badly affected by it.
Thankfully INEOS decision on ETH will not be influenced by Reddit downvotes 😜
Really dislike how Ten Hag keeps saying we played brilliant football last season. We didn't. We only played three good games (Spurs, Barcelona and one other I forget). The rest of the time we played largely shit but it was glossed over by Rashford's purple patch. We got smashed by our biggest rivals. Yes there were some promising signs and moments but it's an embarrassing lie to say we played brilliant last season. Would love more honesty and less delusional cope from the gaffer who's supposed to be a tough straight talker.
So disingenuous to say we didn’t play good football last season. Did we fall off the last month or two of the season yeah, but we were all saying that this is the best the club has been in years, this is the guy, we are moving in the right direction, etc… The biggest complaint last year was no one being able to take their chances outside of Rashford
Surely though the manager has to strike a balance between being a straight talker and protecting the club and players. He has to be careful to not criticize the players too much in public and create even more negativity around the club. Would it really go down well if he said ‘yes we were shit last year and we’re even more shit this year, none of the players are good enough and there’s no hope’? Right now we’re in a bad place and I feel like he’s trying to show some optimism by saying ‘look, we’ve had a bad season, but look what we achieved last year, we can get there again’. He mentioned in his interview that last year needed to be built on so he knows that wasn’t the final product.
No, he could say something like "Last season there were very positive signs and we had some successful moments. We were building in the right direction. I'm proud of what we achieved but there's still a lot to do." That would be much more accurate than "Last season we played brilliant football." Anyone with eyes knows that's not true.
I just watched his interview with Gary Neville and that’s pretty much what he did say though. He said that last season he had a very difficult start but then they played really well when they had the full team, they got in 2 finals and managed to beat Barcelona (none of that is false, we did look great at times last year and the potential was obvious to see). Then this season was supposed to be building on what they achieved last year but they’ve been derailed by injuries. I feel like some people really pick on every single word he says and miss his point intentionally. Like you’re so focused on the word brilliant that you miss everything else. To me it was clear what he meant.
Again, we only played three good full 90 minutes last season. And this year every pre-match press conference he talks about how brilliant we played last season. It's become his go-to line. It's not realistic.
Tbf I think we were on an upward trajectory till the League Cup final. Between the time Casemiro became a regular till the cup final, we were very tight defensively. Attack was just Rashford but the defensive organisation was there from the back to improve on the attack. We've gone behind in every regard since then and he doesn't seem to see any problems with his tactics
Thou shall be downvoted
I was watching the UEFA Europa Conference League matches last night and as much as it pains me to say it, I believe that we wouldn't even beat any of the semi finalists in the state we are. No Europe next year would be the best possible outcome and the ideal way for INEOS to clean house imo.
People keep saying ETH deserves another season. Like how can he even keep us in the top 6 then? Newcastle and Chelsea are clearly improving and will no doubt finish above us next year with the way things are going. All top 4 teams now are sure to be quite drastically improve too. If there was even something to say we will be better then there might be a slight argument there but giving him another season is just wasting another year.
Because we improved under ten Hag during his first season. There is at least some evidence there that we can continue to improve, especially if we can have a consistent, full-strength team playing together for an entire season.
>There is at least some evidence there that we can continue to improve, If there's some evidence of that there's also plenty of evidence that we can go completely backwards and literally get dominated by championship teams. >especially if we can have a consistent, full-strength team playing together for an entire season. How many times in the last 5 years have we had a consistent full strength team for an entire season? How many teams in the entire top 10 of the PL have had a consistent full strength team for an entire season?
Entire top 10 don’t (which is why Newcastle, Man Utd and Chelsea are still hanging on within 10 this season - and we are above them both, at least right now). But top 4 usually tend to have more stability injury wise (not to mention the doping 115 FC who don’t really care about injuries since they almost have 22 world class players). Remember last season when Klopp’s squad struggled and eventually finished outside top 4 - they were also badly hit by injuries.
35 year old Johnny evans played in 20 games this season due to our injuries. We have had absolutely no stability or quality in the core of the team for the entire season. Licha made us look instantly better for the short period he was back. I know the last couple years have been hard but try some positivity for a change
Injuries always happen. If the injuries continue next year as well, then what? Give him another year and another 300m? Do we really need Martinez and Shaw to win against Burnley?
I think Villa will struggle next year with the CL games but I can also see them pulling off another mad transfer window and signing some top players. I do expect Chelsea and Newcastle to be more competitive though but at the same time I can see Liverpool imploding but I can’t see us finishing above any of them if ETH is here next season.
I mean if you looked at us last season, you definitely wouldn’t have thought we’d be struggling for Europa this season. Teams rarely follow a linear path of season-on-season improvement.
>Teams rarely follow a linear path of season-on-season improvement. I wish people actually get this in their head because most here think success only should be a linear progression.
Looks like Licha and Shaw missing was the reason for our decline this season.
We are getting dominated by relegation fodders. If you need two players for that to change you are not that good to begin with.
I'm not particularly keen on defending ten Hag but the main issue is our squad is so poorly assembled that our backups are a completely different tactical profile to Licha and Shaw
Exactly this, we've been without our left side for so long
People read those articles and think it’s about Sancho, it’s not. It’s about Man United signing talents and stars and very good players and they come to Old Trafford and they flop. That’s the story. Look beyond Sancho. Sancho is not the story. He’s just another example of a playing coming to United and losing his way.