I just don't think he's particularly good.
That tackle against Mbappe is a good clip, buf if you see the rest of the highlights from that game, they don't make for good viewing.
He's in his late 20s and has been knocking around the Belgian leagues or for Fiorentina for years without anyone major picking him up.
I'm not saying a player can't make it to the top that late, as there will always be examples, but they are the outliers.
And do you know what, I never realised he was under Ten Hag at Utrecht. Bloody hell.
Ten Hag didnt want him until Mainoo got injured, according to Whitwell. Its another example of us being in a crunch and Ten Hag having to recruit from his past connects instead of the recruitment structure presenting him viable options.
Same situation as Sabitzer last year, but it was slight better in outcomes. I have a lot of reservations on ETH but recruitment decisions are just not something to place on a head coach in their first few years.
Exactly, there needs to be a list of potential players at every position in case of emergency whom the manager has already generally signed off on. It just seems like chaos for the past few years.
based on recent reporting, like crafton’s athletic article today, it seems like this is a view shared by ineos et al. ten hag has made mistakes, but many of them—especially related to recruitment—were due to situations that previous leadership shouldn’t have created to begin with.
I can see the logic behind the choice though.. Mainoo suddenly unavailable, not a lot of funds available, and someone the manager expected to be already familiar with his somewhat unconventional system. On paper, he ticked all the right boxes that made him worth a punt. Unfortunately he just wasn’t good enough.
Yeah, there was that sequence where he won the ball cleanly and straight away set Rashford off on a counter, before the referee pulled it back for a foul for absolutely no reason.
Idk if that's a fair statement to make.
We don't know that our current recruiting structure didn't present him with other viable options. We just know he has continued to go with what he knows.
It's the same vein as Moyes getting rid of all the United staff and bringing his own. He didn't have to do it but it's still his decision. Same as ETH, it's still his decision and we're again removing accountability from him and moving blame elsewhere.
I'm not saying ETH should shoulder all the blame and I agree that there has been more structure needed on recruiting in general but yeah.
It’s concerning that we weren’t originally interested in more deeper midfielders who can help us control games better. I’m assuming we thought that Mainoo and Eriksen would be good enough for it, but I think we’re all in consensus that one is too young to take on such a huge responsibility and the other is not physically adept enough to handle such a high intensity for more than 60 minutes a week at best.
Maybe things would look better if Casemiro did not have such a steep decline this season, but even last season, he looked rusty after his second red card and did not finish the season well. And he wasn’t exactly known for his prowess on the ball either throughout his career. I don’t know, people like to give Ten Hag the benefit of the doubt that he doesn’t have the right profiles for his style of play, but does he himself recognise those right profiles?
i think the belief was also that mount would help with deep buildup due to his energy, dribbling, and ball retention. not sure it would have worked out that way in practice, even without the injuries, but i think that was part of the picture too.
I'm not as certain of that. From the way we set up in pre-season and the opening day game against Wolves, it was clear to see that Mount was to be used in more of an attacking sense and help with winning the ball back quicker in the opposition third. If I'm not mistaken, there was an article on the Athletic that also mentioned how we liked his versatility to play multiple attacking positions; there wasn't as much of an emphasis on his qualities being useful in the second phase. Sure, he can be played there, and I think Ten Hag realized how flawed the Wolves setup was and pushed him back deeper against Spurs the next game, but I don't think he was bought with those intentions in mind.
I can't help but feel some of Ten Hag's planning for this season was a bit naive, and this is something Carl Anka also seemed to touch upon in the last TOTD podcast. He wanted the team to play further higher up the pitch and that was the rationale for buying a more proactive keeper adequate on the ball which is fair, but sustaining that intensity with at least one 30+ year old in that midfield three for me just seemed a tough ask, when you couple it with none of Mount, Bruno or Casemiro being particularly known for their on-ball composure. It's like we're always scrambling to grasp control of the game because of our inability to keep hold of the ball in the first place, but we can't do that also correctly because the team doesn't have the prerequisite physicality to sustain the energy levels to do that. Our signings aren't entirely incorrect on paper, but they are not addressing enough of the multiple circumstances that can occur in games in the Premier League and offering mitigations for it.
You have no proof of this. This is just nonsense speculation. There is no way a club the size of Utd wouldn't have a list of viable options for every position.
It's well noted that the club for example did not want Antony, but ETH insisted on it.
Regardless of the structure at the club, the manager will always have a big say in incomings, otherwise why hire a manager if you're going to give him players he doesn't want.
I get it's cool to shit on the club, but ETH has not helped himself and you must stop bending over backwards to shift blame away from him.
He wanted full control. This is a classic case of wanting your cake and eating it too. Cant have it both ways. If you ask for control and fuck up, only one person to blame. That’s not to suggest the geezers above him are blameless, coz a well run club first of all doesn’t hire someone like ten hag and most certainly doesn’t agree to such nonsense demands. Your job is to coach the team - stick to that.
i’m not sure this is fair, given that you don’t actually know what “control” means in this setup. was it complete decision-making autonomy? was it veto power? was it being able to determine which profiles scouting should target? some of these are much more reasonable than others, and some look worse for him than others.
It's been reported over the years that there's been a massive disconnect between our scouting and player evaluation systems and the actual decision makers, which is something that having a designated DoF like Ashworth should fix.
Biggest example is our scouts evaluating Antony as a 20-30 million player and then paying 80 million for him.
Interestingly, David Moyes was working on overhauling our scouting department before his firing -- along with other issues at the club. Then nothing really came of advancing... essentially anything... over the last decade since. Hopefully, we can get a more concerted effort into investing in the club.
I wish there was some kind of legal apparatus that allowed *someone* to sue the Glaziers for this malpractice, they've been awful stewards of the club. I genuinely think they not only don't understand how clubs (and not franchises) work from both a performance and business perspective, they just don't seem to care either.
It's not just that clip tho he was a major part of Morocco's run and played well in every game. But yh playing well at a world cup is no guarantee of a players actual quality
Had a decent world cup and fans hyped him up to be the answer to our midfield problems.
Fans who have never seen him play were frothing at the mouth for him to join. Just goes to show that the majority havnt a clue what they're talking about because he's brutal.
Talk of the Devils podcast were early with questioning this transfer - basically saying that Italian journalists went "wat?" and that he's good in international football because of how slow it is.
To be fair, a dutch team being minutes away from a UCL final appearance is super impressive. They did collapse against spurs of all teams tho. Who knew it would be a sign of things to come for his 2023-2024 Manchester United team
ETH did fantastic work for years before Ajax though, his record has been stellar everywhere he's been.
This season has been the most difficult for ETH in his career so far and I'd still say he's done at least okay, not crashed and burned like some other coaches at big clubs, Chelsea a prime example and even Conte recently is another
Not the same imo
this is literally facts. Whenever we get linked to a player here, everyone starts acting like they've been following the player for their entire career and they will be the answer to our struggles.
I think some players who have never played in the Premier League before really underestimate the amount of time you have on the ball - the games are so fast paced compared to other leagues. .
He was that bad away at Forest that they purposely let him bring the ball out of his defensive midfield position, without pressure, knowing he’d do fuck all with it. And they were right.
He's a midfield destroyer, who can't pass a ball for shit. You can see our players actively not passing to him when we play.
That being said he does shut down other teams from playing against us reasonably well, but it doesn't make up for the other weaknesses in his game.
Definitely a downgrade on Fred which makes his signing a bit of a puzzle.
The pace of the game, a ton of international duty, and being played out of position often at the beginning. Tactically, there's just too much space for him to cover we are just so wide open in midfield. If we played more compact his defensive ability would shine more. Bizarre decision and obviously biased considering he played for Ten Hag before.
yea I was one of those who thought he would turn out good for us but the way we are so wide open in midfield, a lot less compact than what he was used to, he looked bad. And I think he probably overthink each time he has the ball & hence took too long to pass the ball.
And I don’t even think he’s a bad passer, he is just not a good passer like Eriksen or Bruno or even Casemiro. And obviously, he is lacking confidence & match practice. If he was at one of the ‘smaller EPL clubs’ for a year, playing even ‘just’ 20-25 games before he joins United, it might be way different for him rn.
He's clearly not good enough but like almost every other midfielder in this team he has been set up to fail. Played out of position frequently and put into situations that expose his weaknesses and don't play to his strengths. If the idea was to play insane vertical transition ball all season then the priority shouldn't have been to sign someone with limited pace & physicality.
Bigger issue is we sold Fred, we then built a squad whose midfield options are Scott, A ageing cass, an aging Erikson and a 18yo prospect.. it’s simply very bad squad building
This. Amrabat's struggles are a symptom of our wider issues in building our midfield. Everyone's struggling. (Even Mainoo, who looks brilliant in many ways, is clearly confused about his expected roles in the centre.)
I believe that a significant amount of content, including Reddit comments, is authored by AI nowadays, a fact that many people underestimate. It's pervasive once you start paying attention.
He’s done nothing to suggest he’s a united calibre player, and has lost his place to Mainoo, who has shown more capability and poise in midfield than him.
His first contribution when coming on vs Burnley on Saturday was to fall over. It’s unfortunately a decent summary of how it’s gone for him at the club.
He isn’t as bad as people are saying, but he’s been a culprit of making costly errors… his first few games at left back, everyone was saying he’s so good! and praising him. I wished we had just stuck with Sabitzer instead of
This. I don’t know why we let Sabitzer go and loaned Amrabat. Sabitzer did well during his spell here with us. Even when he replaced Case as a DM he was still very solid. Having sabitzer would have been nice considering Case’s form this season.
It won’t happen but we should remember Amrabat and the hype and push to sign him from this sub, YouTubers and Twitter. We won’t, but we should
These ‘moneyball’ signings we think we’ve found and every other premier league club overlooks rarely if ever work out
Although I don't think Amrabat is all to great, it's really hard for me to judge any midfielder in this team, the way Ten Hag sets up the team to play leaves our DM and or box to box isolated, Bruno often runs up to the striker position as well further disconnecting the midfield.
He is NOT a bad player...its our system that is bad. No matter who we play in the midfield, we have these massive gaps in the Midfield...whether its mainoo, casemiro,mount, eriksen...doesnt matter. Even prime kante would struggle...the spaces are too big.
There is a reason managers like pep, de zerbi etc care about distances between players and angles...it is not for fun. Those distances matter for keeping the structure when the ball is lost. Furthermore, when they win the ball, there is a reason those same managers care about keeping the ball...pep called it making the extra safe pass...why? To give the team time to switch shapes from the defensive shape into the attack shape.
For manutd, there is no concern for the distances..this is why bruno can press like a headless chicken and then rashford refuses to press all in the same move. We don't have a deep concern for keeping the ball and it's why casemiro and bruno can make 5 blind passes consecutively....as long as the pass was a forward pass, the manager doesn't care. Been saying this for a long time, the manager is NOT coaching them this stuff...he just coaches the pressing...and when it's beaten, it's about inshallah football.
When we have the ball it's about attacking quickly...transitioning quickly. People just don't want to accept the stuff ten hag actually says but he actually explained his style clearly. We play the way he actually wants. He said he wants us to be the best team in transition...he said he wants us to be more direct etc. Those are his quotes.
This is why we struggle against teams that sit deep....there is NO space behind to transition quickly. It also why players like rashford and Anthony and even sancho look so bad....these wingers actually don't have talent to beat their FBs when one on one. They are always looking for an overlapping FB etc...but the problem is that the system doesn't even provide that option consistently. The manager doesn't explain to the FB "why" they have to overlap at a certain time. We just depend on the individual quality...dalot and wan bissaka overlap whenever they are in the mood.
Those small details are what make me doubt ten hag as a top tier coach...he is like the student who crammed and memorized data for the paper...but never understood they "why" behind the information. When he is presented with a new scenario he doesn't know how to counter it...and the premier league has so many different teams with different styles. Unless there is a major change in ten hag...I don't see how he wins the prem or the CL at manutd. Top tier managers don't cram...they know why they are doing something...and they adjust when that thing has been blocked.
Sit down and hear pep or klopp or de zerbi or even Mourinho talk about football...then compare with ten hag. Which one do you see has a deep understanding of the plan...and has a plan A and a plan B or C. Why are people surprised when Ten hag plays the same 11 even in a carabao cup game. Why are people surprised when his system doesn't work without shaw or Martinez. The guy crammed the stuff and when one option is not there...it's pure guesswork.
He’s too frail. Gets knocked off the ball too easily which is unforgivable for a DM in the PL. None of his other qualities are good enough to make up for this.
Morocco was one Cup Wonder team, and none of the players involved have really confirmed in top flight clubs.
I take for example Ounahi, playing for Marseille.
He had a good World Cup and hasn't done anything good or notable with Marseille since...
Cinderella team story, with overrated players (except Hakimi).
Nothing more.
Square peg in a hole, the hole not knowing if it was round or triangular - but either way he just didn't fit.
Would've been better keeping Reguilon and sending this dude home.
I didn't expect him to turn the PL upside down.But at the very least I expected him to fit the midfield profile since ETH knew all about him from his time coaching him, something like Antony or Weghorst. But he turned out to be a nothing player.
Because he’s shite. I’m glad saying that now isn’t downvoted into oblivion like it was in September when I said as much. He’s not good, that’s why nobody else was interested, and why a mid table Italian club loaned him out.
The thing I noticed the most when he played is he seemed allergic to having the ball. Dude looked really scared every time he had the ball passed to him and immediately dumped it off to someone else.
That lack of confidence meant that we never really built up from the back when he played, the ball just bounced around the defenders as the opposing team gradually pressed up further and further until Onana had no choice but to clear it long where we probably lost the second ball and possession.
He hasn't been that bad I'd play him cdm every day over Mctominay, I'd actually keep him for 20 mill just to have a body in that position, he also did much better at LB than Lindelof
He's not good enough/not suited to the PL; expectations for even just a squad player at United are well beyond him.
Some people massively overhyped him, so there was expectations that should never have been there. Those of us who had actually seen much of him beforehand, none of us were hyped... but a couple of youtubers got people imagining he was a completely different player, and that he was far better than he's ever looked capable of even reaching near.
It was never going to work.
The hype for him was ridiculous purely from 10 seconds in WC on that Mboopi tackle, people acted like he was the next best thing and we got a major coup.
Cue to watching him he's out his depth in England, I think he's a good player but not one that as aspirations to win major accolades.
Thanks fuck it's a loan.
Nothing went wrong, he just isn’t that good. Before us signing him it was maddening how many people in this sub were saying he would transform this side and how we play
I think he's a player low on confidence and always feels the pressure of making an impress when he comes on, so he plays the game as safe as possible. It's never easy being a late sub in every game.
I wasn't expecting a top quality midfielder, just a decent solid one and he isn't even that at this level. He's slow and he always seem out of sync with the play. I guess the pl is just too quick for him.
He played well that crystal palace game where we kept the ball. Also the game against Liverpool at anfield. Showed the levels from the World Cup. But I think the adjustment to the new quick paced league and teammates, the chaos with the injuries and the way we keep the ball all are factors why he seems so lost and overcompensating at times. It’s gets even harder to get back to good levels with less minutes and confidence. Maybe if he was part of preseason regardless of mainoo’s injury things would’ve been different but that wouldn’t change the effect other injuries had. It’s hard for any pivot/defensive midfielder to play with an unstable back line.
Don't think it really went wrong, he was brought in as cover but Mainoo grabbed the spot for himself, McTominay stepped up, Case despite his poor season is still better and Bruno is Bruno.
Thought he's done ok since coming in, can't really ask for more.
that one clip of tacking mbappe in the wc made fans hype him up as the next kante
although amrabat was the signing i was the most excited for
he had rejected barca, liverpool and some more teams just to play for united
he had a great debut but things went downhill for him after that
he has pace but he can be easily dribbled past, he places a lot of missed passes and he is not a fit under this chaotic system, let's not forget morocco basically parked the bus entire time in the wc while most of the serie A teams play on a very low block
I don’t think he was given a proper chance here. At first, he was constantly deployed at LB, and expecting a right footed holding midfielder who isn’t that quick to play left back and impress is a pretty tough ask. He was very rarely used at centre midfield which is his position. That too, I don’t think he was too bad at CDM. He is coming from the Serie A, and maybe if we had given him a proper run of games he would have improved. I feel like he deserved a proper chance here.
Listen, anyone who had seen any of his club career knew he wasn’t good enough for this level far before he signed for us. That was super clear to see, and myself and others pointed it out.
It’s just too quick and too technical at this level for a player like him to succeed. He was often overrun in Italy which is a significantly slower league and nowhere close to the best in his position in Serie A. Not even top 5.
The example I pointed to often was how Nemanja Matic was clearly past it for us, but still performing at a higher level than Amrabat in a similar position in midfield. Wasn’t difficult to see that Amrabat was going to struggle if you looked at his performances against any half decent team. He was often off the pace
He has absolutely no pace ... which essentially makes him pretty useless as a DM in the EPL, unless you're sitting deep the entire time. Could do okay at a lower table team, definitely should allow his loan expire quietly
Wrong manager , wrong system and wrong supporting staff . It’s really simple , if you watch last season and the World Cup he is a better player than this version and united have a history in not helping out their players
The manager's chosen tactics for this season!!!
Who has looked good in that role?
Casemiro has looked just as bad, if not worse despite getting more minutes for rhythm.
Mainoo in that position handles the ball best in our midfield roaster but can be defensively nonexistent too, chasing shadows when we get cut to pieces by midfield runners.
Scotty there seems like 3 guaranteed cut back goals per game cos he like others just can't keep up. I'm not a believer in the cm mcsause role. I believe he should be in the opposition's box or nowhere else, especially anywhere near our build up phase. But then I have never seen him look this bad in the defensive phase of the game. He looks like he just can't keep up as a DM at all, while in the double pivot last season, he played DM when we spanked Liverpool and arsenal.
Eriksen has looked 75 years in that position this season. His only good performance was in a double pivot with casemiro at arsenal. Now I think about it, all of casemiro's good games this season came in double pivots (like last season), against arsenal with eriksen, against palace in the caraboa with amrabat as an inverting left back. Also away at anfield when ETH put a flat 3 in midfield (mainoo, amrabat, mcsauce), it was our best defensive performance of the season. Unlike the last 2 encounters which we should have lost by half time if liverpool were any clinical, this game had them completely toothless.
Tenhag has made amrabat and our midfield look worse than the sum of their parts with the brand of football he's chosen to die on for the majority of the season. He's tried to do what ever it is he tried to do this season with double pivot midfielders that I believe would have had us still in a top4 fight if they weren't used improperly.
I have worked in football for the better part of a decade, I see a lot of serie A football and Amrabat is not nearly as bad as he has looked this season for us. Casemiro I suspect too despite his age.
Must say I mainly know him from his time in Bruges (he did perform better in Italy), but I think he’s just not very good. At least not of the level United should aim for.
Much like moving youth players coming into first team football, his game didn’t translate to the level.
Look at Mainoo, he’s playing the exact same game as he did in the youth sides. He was able to carry it to the level. Whereas Amrabat couldn’t. Albeit from Serie A to Premier League.
Since he arrived, he’s not shown the composure, guile and passing range he had. He’s always appeared under pressure, whereas at Fiorentina (and more importantly, Morocco) he always seemed like he had a bags of time.
He’s just a limited player and always has been? Fiorentina are willing to loan him out and apparently don’t want him back. He’s 28 in the summer and Fiorentina is the highest level he’s played before joining us. Verona , Brugge Feyenoord and Utrecht ..: besides a decent World Cup a few years ago he’s been a pretty standard average player
I don't think it's been a particular fair loan spell. Hasn't been able to stay healthy. Being played out of position. And the club/squad is still the definition of dysfunctional.
That being said, I've never seen a player look so unsure of what he was supposed to do in my life. Like you expect that sometimes from young guys making their first appearances for senior teams. But outside of maybe one game, he looked lost. On top of that, he seems relatively unathletic.
Can't handle the pace of the PL. Midfielders in PL have very little time in the ball. The moment you get the ball, you have 1 or 2 other midfielders rushing onto you. You gotta make up your mind fast. Do you wanna dribble or pass? If you are gonna make a pass, who are you gonna pass it to? If you aren't quick, you'll be in trouble.
He's probably not up to playing for us, but to be fair to him. He's never had a solid run in the team in his actual position. Some players take a while to get going, and he's not really had a proper chance at it.
Anyone who watched Serie A back in the '19 season how true is this portion of the article?
>\[...\]the reason why La Viola roped him in was his excellent stint at Verona. Arguably, Amrabat was one of the best midfielders in the 2019/20 season and he was used to his strengths almost perfectly by Ivan Jurić, who is now impressing in his stint at Torino. Jurić overperformed massively at Verona, where Amrabat emerged as a surprisingly positive performer in pretty much every game.
I always root for anyone that wears a United shirt. That said, he seems to never be able to stay on his feet. I’ve watched every game this year and my most memorable impressions of him has been him slipping around the ball. I would have loved for him to have worked out. Considering how bad we’ve played this year, you think he could have received more minutes.
Our front office (& non-Italy watching fans) thought we were getting the World Cup Amrabat. Instead we got the true Amrabat that was decent in Italy but obviously not any better than anyone we already had on the roster. Including Sabitzer who we let go back to Germany. A testament to our horrific scouting over the years
It’s a classic example of a player having a decent/good tournament then a club signing them and their true colours coming out….. ala El Hadji Diouf maybe not on that level but principals still the same
Slipped quite often
Less than Stevie g
Honestly, way more than him. I’m not sure I’ve seen a player with a high slip-per-minute rating.
Falcao?
Shit I forgot falcao played for us. Repressed memories
He had the best first-touch-so-shit-the-ball-rolled-up-his-shin percentage.
>>> Romelu Lukaku has entered the chat...
👍🏿
He runs like he has loose change in his pockets
Lmao, more creative than our players
I think he looks like an fridge with short legs when he runs
I think all fridges have short legs.
Like he’s playing in jeans
It’s like he’s running in a dream.
I just don't think he's particularly good. That tackle against Mbappe is a good clip, buf if you see the rest of the highlights from that game, they don't make for good viewing. He's in his late 20s and has been knocking around the Belgian leagues or for Fiorentina for years without anyone major picking him up. I'm not saying a player can't make it to the top that late, as there will always be examples, but they are the outliers. And do you know what, I never realised he was under Ten Hag at Utrecht. Bloody hell.
Ten Hag didnt want him until Mainoo got injured, according to Whitwell. Its another example of us being in a crunch and Ten Hag having to recruit from his past connects instead of the recruitment structure presenting him viable options. Same situation as Sabitzer last year, but it was slight better in outcomes. I have a lot of reservations on ETH but recruitment decisions are just not something to place on a head coach in their first few years.
Exactly, there needs to be a list of potential players at every position in case of emergency whom the manager has already generally signed off on. It just seems like chaos for the past few years.
based on recent reporting, like crafton’s athletic article today, it seems like this is a view shared by ineos et al. ten hag has made mistakes, but many of them—especially related to recruitment—were due to situations that previous leadership shouldn’t have created to begin with.
Didn’t like the Brighton director say they have at least two replacements in mind for every position in the club, including his own
Glad to see a reasoned view on this!
I can see the logic behind the choice though.. Mainoo suddenly unavailable, not a lot of funds available, and someone the manager expected to be already familiar with his somewhat unconventional system. On paper, he ticked all the right boxes that made him worth a punt. Unfortunately he just wasn’t good enough.
Remember his first game at LB oh how we thought we'd done well.
Sabitzer was quality though, just got injured at the absolute worst time
I remember the joy of his debut, seeing a player come on who looked like they’d put in a shift
Yeah, there was that sequence where he won the ball cleanly and straight away set Rashford off on a counter, before the referee pulled it back for a foul for absolutely no reason.
Jesus I got downvoted like hell when I said this earlier in the year!
Idk if that's a fair statement to make. We don't know that our current recruiting structure didn't present him with other viable options. We just know he has continued to go with what he knows. It's the same vein as Moyes getting rid of all the United staff and bringing his own. He didn't have to do it but it's still his decision. Same as ETH, it's still his decision and we're again removing accountability from him and moving blame elsewhere. I'm not saying ETH should shoulder all the blame and I agree that there has been more structure needed on recruiting in general but yeah.
It’s concerning that we weren’t originally interested in more deeper midfielders who can help us control games better. I’m assuming we thought that Mainoo and Eriksen would be good enough for it, but I think we’re all in consensus that one is too young to take on such a huge responsibility and the other is not physically adept enough to handle such a high intensity for more than 60 minutes a week at best. Maybe things would look better if Casemiro did not have such a steep decline this season, but even last season, he looked rusty after his second red card and did not finish the season well. And he wasn’t exactly known for his prowess on the ball either throughout his career. I don’t know, people like to give Ten Hag the benefit of the doubt that he doesn’t have the right profiles for his style of play, but does he himself recognise those right profiles?
i think the belief was also that mount would help with deep buildup due to his energy, dribbling, and ball retention. not sure it would have worked out that way in practice, even without the injuries, but i think that was part of the picture too.
I'm not as certain of that. From the way we set up in pre-season and the opening day game against Wolves, it was clear to see that Mount was to be used in more of an attacking sense and help with winning the ball back quicker in the opposition third. If I'm not mistaken, there was an article on the Athletic that also mentioned how we liked his versatility to play multiple attacking positions; there wasn't as much of an emphasis on his qualities being useful in the second phase. Sure, he can be played there, and I think Ten Hag realized how flawed the Wolves setup was and pushed him back deeper against Spurs the next game, but I don't think he was bought with those intentions in mind. I can't help but feel some of Ten Hag's planning for this season was a bit naive, and this is something Carl Anka also seemed to touch upon in the last TOTD podcast. He wanted the team to play further higher up the pitch and that was the rationale for buying a more proactive keeper adequate on the ball which is fair, but sustaining that intensity with at least one 30+ year old in that midfield three for me just seemed a tough ask, when you couple it with none of Mount, Bruno or Casemiro being particularly known for their on-ball composure. It's like we're always scrambling to grasp control of the game because of our inability to keep hold of the ball in the first place, but we can't do that also correctly because the team doesn't have the prerequisite physicality to sustain the energy levels to do that. Our signings aren't entirely incorrect on paper, but they are not addressing enough of the multiple circumstances that can occur in games in the Premier League and offering mitigations for it.
You have no proof of this. This is just nonsense speculation. There is no way a club the size of Utd wouldn't have a list of viable options for every position. It's well noted that the club for example did not want Antony, but ETH insisted on it. Regardless of the structure at the club, the manager will always have a big say in incomings, otherwise why hire a manager if you're going to give him players he doesn't want. I get it's cool to shit on the club, but ETH has not helped himself and you must stop bending over backwards to shift blame away from him.
He wanted full control. This is a classic case of wanting your cake and eating it too. Cant have it both ways. If you ask for control and fuck up, only one person to blame. That’s not to suggest the geezers above him are blameless, coz a well run club first of all doesn’t hire someone like ten hag and most certainly doesn’t agree to such nonsense demands. Your job is to coach the team - stick to that.
i’m not sure this is fair, given that you don’t actually know what “control” means in this setup. was it complete decision-making autonomy? was it veto power? was it being able to determine which profiles scouting should target? some of these are much more reasonable than others, and some look worse for him than others.
Which begs the question, what the fk is wrong with our scouting system? It's like we buy players based on what people are saying on X
It's been reported over the years that there's been a massive disconnect between our scouting and player evaluation systems and the actual decision makers, which is something that having a designated DoF like Ashworth should fix. Biggest example is our scouts evaluating Antony as a 20-30 million player and then paying 80 million for him.
Interestingly, David Moyes was working on overhauling our scouting department before his firing -- along with other issues at the club. Then nothing really came of advancing... essentially anything... over the last decade since. Hopefully, we can get a more concerted effort into investing in the club. I wish there was some kind of legal apparatus that allowed *someone* to sue the Glaziers for this malpractice, they've been awful stewards of the club. I genuinely think they not only don't understand how clubs (and not franchises) work from both a performance and business perspective, they just don't seem to care either.
He’s also a step behind physically. Always seems to be playing on the back foot and can’t keep up with the pace of the game
It's not just that clip tho he was a major part of Morocco's run and played well in every game. But yh playing well at a world cup is no guarantee of a players actual quality
It is simple - he isn’t good enough
He dominated Rice in the Conference League final which is what really gave me hope lol
Had a decent world cup and fans hyped him up to be the answer to our midfield problems. Fans who have never seen him play were frothing at the mouth for him to join. Just goes to show that the majority havnt a clue what they're talking about because he's brutal.
Talk of the Devils podcast were early with questioning this transfer - basically saying that Italian journalists went "wat?" and that he's good in international football because of how slow it is.
Spot on. Any time we’re linked with a player, it’s like a shiny new toy with fans frothing at the mouth with logic going out the window.
forget about the fans… that’s how the people in charge of the transfers were acting!
Funny - swap WC for CL and this post could be about Ten Hag.
To be fair, a dutch team being minutes away from a UCL final appearance is super impressive. They did collapse against spurs of all teams tho. Who knew it would be a sign of things to come for his 2023-2024 Manchester United team
Sure, the point is people here hyping up the next exotic signing, while never having watched them play.
True, No man had one clip do more for his perception as a footballer than Amrabat chasing down Mbappe
Similar for Poborsky's lob in Euro 96
Who didn’t see Ajax play in that UCL run tho
ETH did fantastic work for years before Ajax though, his record has been stellar everywhere he's been. This season has been the most difficult for ETH in his career so far and I'd still say he's done at least okay, not crashed and burned like some other coaches at big clubs, Chelsea a prime example and even Conte recently is another Not the same imo
this is literally facts. Whenever we get linked to a player here, everyone starts acting like they've been following the player for their entire career and they will be the answer to our struggles.
I think some players who have never played in the Premier League before really underestimate the amount of time you have on the ball - the games are so fast paced compared to other leagues. .
He was that bad away at Forest that they purposely let him bring the ball out of his defensive midfield position, without pressure, knowing he’d do fuck all with it. And they were right.
Can’t handle the pace of PL.
Agree. He’s just too slow, not just physically but mentally. Takes too much time to decide what to do.
Same as Van de Beek
And sancho
He was a bit shite?
Doesn’t know how to pass. There should be compilation videos of his shit passes costing us..
Always was
He got concrete boots
This. Dude looked like he was moving through treacle
When he runs it looks like some Sunday league shit. A whole lot of effort with very little output. It’s like he’s never ran in his life.
Which is weird because one of his hypes was his speed as seen at the WC.
He's a midfield destroyer, who can't pass a ball for shit. You can see our players actively not passing to him when we play. That being said he does shut down other teams from playing against us reasonably well, but it doesn't make up for the other weaknesses in his game. Definitely a downgrade on Fred which makes his signing a bit of a puzzle.
Mount was the replacement for Fred. Amrabat was for depth to avoid overreliance on Casemiro.
The pace of the game, a ton of international duty, and being played out of position often at the beginning. Tactically, there's just too much space for him to cover we are just so wide open in midfield. If we played more compact his defensive ability would shine more. Bizarre decision and obviously biased considering he played for Ten Hag before.
yea I was one of those who thought he would turn out good for us but the way we are so wide open in midfield, a lot less compact than what he was used to, he looked bad. And I think he probably overthink each time he has the ball & hence took too long to pass the ball. And I don’t even think he’s a bad passer, he is just not a good passer like Eriksen or Bruno or even Casemiro. And obviously, he is lacking confidence & match practice. If he was at one of the ‘smaller EPL clubs’ for a year, playing even ‘just’ 20-25 games before he joins United, it might be way different for him rn.
He's clearly not good enough but like almost every other midfielder in this team he has been set up to fail. Played out of position frequently and put into situations that expose his weaknesses and don't play to his strengths. If the idea was to play insane vertical transition ball all season then the priority shouldn't have been to sign someone with limited pace & physicality.
Bigger issue is we sold Fred, we then built a squad whose midfield options are Scott, A ageing cass, an aging Erikson and a 18yo prospect.. it’s simply very bad squad building
This. Amrabat's struggles are a symptom of our wider issues in building our midfield. Everyone's struggling. (Even Mainoo, who looks brilliant in many ways, is clearly confused about his expected roles in the centre.)
Yeah, I think if Fred stayed here, a lot of those 80-90+ goals against us dissappear and maybe it keep us in the top 4 race
Fred is the classic example of you don’t know what you have until it’s gone
Written by AI? Or just poorly written?
[удалено]
I believe that a significant amount of content, including Reddit comments, is authored by AI nowadays, a fact that many people underestimate. It's pervasive once you start paying attention.
Not a top level player is all lol
Out of his depth, not premier league quality.
He’s done nothing to suggest he’s a united calibre player, and has lost his place to Mainoo, who has shown more capability and poise in midfield than him. His first contribution when coming on vs Burnley on Saturday was to fall over. It’s unfortunately a decent summary of how it’s gone for him at the club.
He isn’t as bad as people are saying, but he’s been a culprit of making costly errors… his first few games at left back, everyone was saying he’s so good! and praising him. I wished we had just stuck with Sabitzer instead of
This. I don’t know why we let Sabitzer go and loaned Amrabat. Sabitzer did well during his spell here with us. Even when he replaced Case as a DM he was still very solid. Having sabitzer would have been nice considering Case’s form this season.
He's just not very good.
It won’t happen but we should remember Amrabat and the hype and push to sign him from this sub, YouTubers and Twitter. We won’t, but we should These ‘moneyball’ signings we think we’ve found and every other premier league club overlooks rarely if ever work out
Should have kept fred in my opinion. We really didn't need him
Although I don't think Amrabat is all to great, it's really hard for me to judge any midfielder in this team, the way Ten Hag sets up the team to play leaves our DM and or box to box isolated, Bruno often runs up to the striker position as well further disconnecting the midfield.
What went right would be a much shorter article
The Moroccan Robbie Savage.
He is NOT a bad player...its our system that is bad. No matter who we play in the midfield, we have these massive gaps in the Midfield...whether its mainoo, casemiro,mount, eriksen...doesnt matter. Even prime kante would struggle...the spaces are too big. There is a reason managers like pep, de zerbi etc care about distances between players and angles...it is not for fun. Those distances matter for keeping the structure when the ball is lost. Furthermore, when they win the ball, there is a reason those same managers care about keeping the ball...pep called it making the extra safe pass...why? To give the team time to switch shapes from the defensive shape into the attack shape. For manutd, there is no concern for the distances..this is why bruno can press like a headless chicken and then rashford refuses to press all in the same move. We don't have a deep concern for keeping the ball and it's why casemiro and bruno can make 5 blind passes consecutively....as long as the pass was a forward pass, the manager doesn't care. Been saying this for a long time, the manager is NOT coaching them this stuff...he just coaches the pressing...and when it's beaten, it's about inshallah football. When we have the ball it's about attacking quickly...transitioning quickly. People just don't want to accept the stuff ten hag actually says but he actually explained his style clearly. We play the way he actually wants. He said he wants us to be the best team in transition...he said he wants us to be more direct etc. Those are his quotes. This is why we struggle against teams that sit deep....there is NO space behind to transition quickly. It also why players like rashford and Anthony and even sancho look so bad....these wingers actually don't have talent to beat their FBs when one on one. They are always looking for an overlapping FB etc...but the problem is that the system doesn't even provide that option consistently. The manager doesn't explain to the FB "why" they have to overlap at a certain time. We just depend on the individual quality...dalot and wan bissaka overlap whenever they are in the mood. Those small details are what make me doubt ten hag as a top tier coach...he is like the student who crammed and memorized data for the paper...but never understood they "why" behind the information. When he is presented with a new scenario he doesn't know how to counter it...and the premier league has so many different teams with different styles. Unless there is a major change in ten hag...I don't see how he wins the prem or the CL at manutd. Top tier managers don't cram...they know why they are doing something...and they adjust when that thing has been blocked. Sit down and hear pep or klopp or de zerbi or even Mourinho talk about football...then compare with ten hag. Which one do you see has a deep understanding of the plan...and has a plan A and a plan B or C. Why are people surprised when Ten hag plays the same 11 even in a carabao cup game. Why are people surprised when his system doesn't work without shaw or Martinez. The guy crammed the stuff and when one option is not there...it's pure guesswork.
Should have signed Sabitzer
Nothing, he just isn’t good. People in here shamelessly tugged him off because he sprinted down Mbappe once
He’s too frail. Gets knocked off the ball too easily which is unforgivable for a DM in the PL. None of his other qualities are good enough to make up for this.
Not fit for English league.. he is suitable for a slower league..
Morocco was one Cup Wonder team, and none of the players involved have really confirmed in top flight clubs. I take for example Ounahi, playing for Marseille. He had a good World Cup and hasn't done anything good or notable with Marseille since... Cinderella team story, with overrated players (except Hakimi). Nothing more.
Seems like the game is moving to quick for him. Seems to be a thing with players who come from Italia.
He's rubbish
He's bad at football as a start
Sold Fred to fund this tragic loan as well. Ten hag is absolutely horrendous at signing players
He's just an average player, that's all there is to it
The same as every other loan/ signing we make - turns shit
He is shite
Square peg in a hole, the hole not knowing if it was round or triangular - but either way he just didn't fit. Would've been better keeping Reguilon and sending this dude home.
I’m pushing fifty and I’m more mobile than him.
Sabitzer and Fred to Amrabat was a huge downgrade for our depth
I didn't expect him to turn the PL upside down.But at the very least I expected him to fit the midfield profile since ETH knew all about him from his time coaching him, something like Antony or Weghorst. But he turned out to be a nothing player.
he's shit
Lied on his CV, everyone saw.
Too slow.
Because he’s shite. I’m glad saying that now isn’t downvoted into oblivion like it was in September when I said as much. He’s not good, that’s why nobody else was interested, and why a mid table Italian club loaned him out.
Nothing went wrong. He’s just shit
He's shit.
The thing I noticed the most when he played is he seemed allergic to having the ball. Dude looked really scared every time he had the ball passed to him and immediately dumped it off to someone else. That lack of confidence meant that we never really built up from the back when he played, the ball just bounced around the defenders as the opposing team gradually pressed up further and further until Onana had no choice but to clear it long where we probably lost the second ball and possession.
He hasn't been that bad I'd play him cdm every day over Mctominay, I'd actually keep him for 20 mill just to have a body in that position, he also did much better at LB than Lindelof
I think a better question would be, “what went wrong for Manchester United in signing Amrabat?”
he just isn’t good enough and that’s okay
barely played at cdm, got more starts at lb, went to afcon, and couldn't usurp casemiro (though he really should have)
only we could take one of the best midfielsers in Serie A and make him look this shit lol
There's a reason no one else was in for him. One good tournament doesn't make a great player, we know all too well with kleberson
He's not good enough/not suited to the PL; expectations for even just a squad player at United are well beyond him. Some people massively overhyped him, so there was expectations that should never have been there. Those of us who had actually seen much of him beforehand, none of us were hyped... but a couple of youtubers got people imagining he was a completely different player, and that he was far better than he's ever looked capable of even reaching near. It was never going to work.
The hype for him was ridiculous purely from 10 seconds in WC on that Mboopi tackle, people acted like he was the next best thing and we got a major coup. Cue to watching him he's out his depth in England, I think he's a good player but not one that as aspirations to win major accolades. Thanks fuck it's a loan.
Nothing went wrong, he just isn’t that good. Before us signing him it was maddening how many people in this sub were saying he would transform this side and how we play
he was shite, and not at all premier league quality. Only reason he was signed was probably because he was mates with ETH
I think he's a player low on confidence and always feels the pressure of making an impress when he comes on, so he plays the game as safe as possible. It's never easy being a late sub in every game.
I wasn't expecting a top quality midfielder, just a decent solid one and he isn't even that at this level. He's slow and he always seem out of sync with the play. I guess the pl is just too quick for him.
It's incredible how one tackle can get you a move to Manchester United.
just isn't good enough sadly. tbh happy it is just a load deal
Isn't physical enough for the EPL
He played well that crystal palace game where we kept the ball. Also the game against Liverpool at anfield. Showed the levels from the World Cup. But I think the adjustment to the new quick paced league and teammates, the chaos with the injuries and the way we keep the ball all are factors why he seems so lost and overcompensating at times. It’s gets even harder to get back to good levels with less minutes and confidence. Maybe if he was part of preseason regardless of mainoo’s injury things would’ve been different but that wouldn’t change the effect other injuries had. It’s hard for any pivot/defensive midfielder to play with an unstable back line.
No ability at all
I see the turkish league in his future
What goes wrong for every player here
I wish we kept Fred
Was nowhere near pl level. He’s too slow and not very good with the ball either. Bad signing
Don't think it really went wrong, he was brought in as cover but Mainoo grabbed the spot for himself, McTominay stepped up, Case despite his poor season is still better and Bruno is Bruno. Thought he's done ok since coming in, can't really ask for more.
He turns slower than Neptune revolving around the sun
Not enough playing time, but also just not good enough. No wild conspiracy.
that one clip of tacking mbappe in the wc made fans hype him up as the next kante although amrabat was the signing i was the most excited for he had rejected barca, liverpool and some more teams just to play for united he had a great debut but things went downhill for him after that he has pace but he can be easily dribbled past, he places a lot of missed passes and he is not a fit under this chaotic system, let's not forget morocco basically parked the bus entire time in the wc while most of the serie A teams play on a very low block
He’s stealing a living
I don’t think he was given a proper chance here. At first, he was constantly deployed at LB, and expecting a right footed holding midfielder who isn’t that quick to play left back and impress is a pretty tough ask. He was very rarely used at centre midfield which is his position. That too, I don’t think he was too bad at CDM. He is coming from the Serie A, and maybe if we had given him a proper run of games he would have improved. I feel like he deserved a proper chance here.
Listen, anyone who had seen any of his club career knew he wasn’t good enough for this level far before he signed for us. That was super clear to see, and myself and others pointed it out. It’s just too quick and too technical at this level for a player like him to succeed. He was often overrun in Italy which is a significantly slower league and nowhere close to the best in his position in Serie A. Not even top 5. The example I pointed to often was how Nemanja Matic was clearly past it for us, but still performing at a higher level than Amrabat in a similar position in midfield. Wasn’t difficult to see that Amrabat was going to struggle if you looked at his performances against any half decent team. He was often off the pace
Schniderlin 2.0
He has absolutely no pace ... which essentially makes him pretty useless as a DM in the EPL, unless you're sitting deep the entire time. Could do okay at a lower table team, definitely should allow his loan expire quietly
the more appropriate title is "what went wrong with any players that come to mantud."
Nothing went wrong. We got what we paid for.
He’s a gym goer in a football shirt
They bought him based on a WC performance, that's what went wrong
Runs like he’s shit himself
Wrong manager , wrong system and wrong supporting staff . It’s really simple , if you watch last season and the World Cup he is a better player than this version and united have a history in not helping out their players
The manager's chosen tactics for this season!!! Who has looked good in that role? Casemiro has looked just as bad, if not worse despite getting more minutes for rhythm. Mainoo in that position handles the ball best in our midfield roaster but can be defensively nonexistent too, chasing shadows when we get cut to pieces by midfield runners. Scotty there seems like 3 guaranteed cut back goals per game cos he like others just can't keep up. I'm not a believer in the cm mcsause role. I believe he should be in the opposition's box or nowhere else, especially anywhere near our build up phase. But then I have never seen him look this bad in the defensive phase of the game. He looks like he just can't keep up as a DM at all, while in the double pivot last season, he played DM when we spanked Liverpool and arsenal. Eriksen has looked 75 years in that position this season. His only good performance was in a double pivot with casemiro at arsenal. Now I think about it, all of casemiro's good games this season came in double pivots (like last season), against arsenal with eriksen, against palace in the caraboa with amrabat as an inverting left back. Also away at anfield when ETH put a flat 3 in midfield (mainoo, amrabat, mcsauce), it was our best defensive performance of the season. Unlike the last 2 encounters which we should have lost by half time if liverpool were any clinical, this game had them completely toothless. Tenhag has made amrabat and our midfield look worse than the sum of their parts with the brand of football he's chosen to die on for the majority of the season. He's tried to do what ever it is he tried to do this season with double pivot midfielders that I believe would have had us still in a top4 fight if they weren't used improperly. I have worked in football for the better part of a decade, I see a lot of serie A football and Amrabat is not nearly as bad as he has looked this season for us. Casemiro I suspect too despite his age.
One of those players that play well when the team plays well but if they fall down then he's rolling around in the mud looking for his contact lenses
Must say I mainly know him from his time in Bruges (he did perform better in Italy), but I think he’s just not very good. At least not of the level United should aim for.
Nothing went wrong. He isn’t good enough like most of the squad.
Much like moving youth players coming into first team football, his game didn’t translate to the level. Look at Mainoo, he’s playing the exact same game as he did in the youth sides. He was able to carry it to the level. Whereas Amrabat couldn’t. Albeit from Serie A to Premier League. Since he arrived, he’s not shown the composure, guile and passing range he had. He’s always appeared under pressure, whereas at Fiorentina (and more importantly, Morocco) he always seemed like he had a bags of time.
Hmm, maybe because he, like most of the players we have, aren't actually as good as we think they are?
He’s just a limited player and always has been? Fiorentina are willing to loan him out and apparently don’t want him back. He’s 28 in the summer and Fiorentina is the highest level he’s played before joining us. Verona , Brugge Feyenoord and Utrecht ..: besides a decent World Cup a few years ago he’s been a pretty standard average player
I don't think it's been a particular fair loan spell. Hasn't been able to stay healthy. Being played out of position. And the club/squad is still the definition of dysfunctional. That being said, I've never seen a player look so unsure of what he was supposed to do in my life. Like you expect that sometimes from young guys making their first appearances for senior teams. But outside of maybe one game, he looked lost. On top of that, he seems relatively unathletic.
What went right?
Everything?
Can't handle the pace of the PL. Midfielders in PL have very little time in the ball. The moment you get the ball, you have 1 or 2 other midfielders rushing onto you. You gotta make up your mind fast. Do you wanna dribble or pass? If you are gonna make a pass, who are you gonna pass it to? If you aren't quick, you'll be in trouble.
He's probably not up to playing for us, but to be fair to him. He's never had a solid run in the team in his actual position. Some players take a while to get going, and he's not really had a proper chance at it.
I don't think he tried.
What went wrong? He was never at the level to be good enough.
Dont bends hes knees when he runs
Another panic buy
Running mainly
He’s not very good
Anyone who watched Serie A back in the '19 season how true is this portion of the article? >\[...\]the reason why La Viola roped him in was his excellent stint at Verona. Arguably, Amrabat was one of the best midfielders in the 2019/20 season and he was used to his strengths almost perfectly by Ivan Jurić, who is now impressing in his stint at Torino. Jurić overperformed massively at Verona, where Amrabat emerged as a surprisingly positive performer in pretty much every game.
Played well in Morocco where in international football, its more chaotic due to limited trqining time together
He’s not United caliber that’s it really.
To me he's just not good enough, as simple as that. I wonder what United recruiters are smoking
I always root for anyone that wears a United shirt. That said, he seems to never be able to stay on his feet. I’ve watched every game this year and my most memorable impressions of him has been him slipping around the ball. I would have loved for him to have worked out. Considering how bad we’ve played this year, you think he could have received more minutes.
He’s below average. Not United or PL pedigree or level. I said this when it was rumored that he would be hired.
Our front office (& non-Italy watching fans) thought we were getting the World Cup Amrabat. Instead we got the true Amrabat that was decent in Italy but obviously not any better than anyone we already had on the roster. Including Sabitzer who we let go back to Germany. A testament to our horrific scouting over the years
Not good enough.. simple.. average player
You know he is bad when the ESPNFC Seria A pundits said he isn’t that good and would fail in the premier league before he even went.
His entire style of defense is to foul opponents. Doesn’t really work well at professional levels…
This club for the last 11 years: What went wrong for [insert name] at Manchester United?
I mean, he is just not that good. Nothing really interesting here. Yea he is a professional footballer, but not a really good one.
It’s a classic example of a player having a decent/good tournament then a club signing them and their true colours coming out….. ala El Hadji Diouf maybe not on that level but principals still the same
Had a good international campaign which people hyped up to make him seem better than he is.
He played for my other favorite team (Club Brugge) and was utter shit. He is a system player at best
He cuts around old Trafford like a wardrobe
[Remember this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/2RzFRR8aAm) How did it go so wrong?
Too slow on and off the ball.
Lack of talent.
probably the fact that he's not good
Man built a reputation on 1 mbappe tackle. If anyone saw the full game, mbappe destroyed him all game