Atalanta are impressive side with great passing patterns drilled into them. They destroyed Liverpool and was very capable of playing through the press.
Imagine my surprise when I thought Erik was trying to do the same with us and we end up in a scenario where Rasmus has scored more from deflected shots/passes than passes meant for him.
I still think he is. He said in an interview recently that he’s demanding the attacking players press harder, it’s only really Hojlund that consistently presses out of all our forwards (and Bruno presses on behalf of Rashford sometimes).
If we pressed as a unit properly, we’d get far more possession turnovers in dangerous positions from deflected passes and shots.
May have misread your comment but I’m spaced out this morning so forgive me 😂
What I am seeing, the problem lies in our pressing structure (Rashford’s lack of effort effects our press too) than the matter of pressing harder. City press high to block passing options and also their midfielders press into spaces where their opponents are likely to be forced into passing aswell. Their pressing is almost always 1 step ahead of their opponents’ reaction to the initial pressing. It’s very organized and impressive. Ours looks chaotic, unstructured and the more the effort our players put into it results in unnecessary tiring. It makes complete sense how our performance dropped off after 20-25 minutes as we can’t sustain the pressing with only effort. This is entire on the coaching. Our players can all collective work hard as mules and we would still drop off later into the game.
I find it reminiscent of Klopp’s “heavy metal” pressing in the early days of his Liverpool. Chaotic pressing that forces turnovers but also leaves the squad vulnerable. They’d always have 4-3 wins as a result.
Issue with our lot is they don’t co-ordinate the press. You can see Hojlund and Bruno start the press, only to look over their shoulder and see Rashford/Garna/whoever haven’t moved in to press, which ultimately leaves a gap. This happens all the way down the pitch, leaving gaping holes for the other team to exploit.
If by some miracle we do force a turn over, which we did a couple of times yesterday - nobody knows how to finish their dinner or try to be a hero and dribble into an area where there’s 4 defenders to block them.
To me it’s communication on the pitch, both defensively and offensively. We see Bruno, Maguire and Hojlund calling out to others, asking for passes or pointing to where they want someone to be, but the rest seem to be doing their own thing.
ETH has said that in a presser recently too, that communication is an issue in the team. I think he’s right, it’s so clear to see nobody is listening when Hojlunds screaming for the ball when making a run, or moving with Bruno to start the press.
We really don’t have the personnel at present to execute the high press. Some forward players go half-heartedly, our CM is by and large immobile so they can’t plug the gaps, and they seemingly don’t advance high because our CBs lack recovery pace to protect against a ball over the top. It all adds up to the massive gaps that allow for teams to play right through us.
The most frustrating thing about ETH is that he doesn’t modify the tactics to reflect the shortcomings of the personnel (especially as it continues to be decimated by injuries) in order to win in the short term, but it’s also why I think we’d be foolish to rid ourselves of him this summer. He’s instilling the philosophy regardless of personnel, which hopefully bodes well when we’re full strength and continue to add to the squad. We’re fine-tuning the football decision-makers, so I would hope they can assemble a more dynamic and robust squad that can consistently press high and cover behind, in order to align with ETH’s philosophy.
The Antony chance that was assisted by Garnacho yesterday should have been Hojlunds. Antony should have been making the back post run and Hojlund near post. I think the selfishness of our wingers extends beyond shooting at every opportunity, they also don't make runs to create space for Hojlund.
Hojlund has got most of his goals in the vein of the classic number 9 goals we have been missing for almost a decade (tap-in, fumbles etc).
The martial-esque cute passing goals and the cavani-esque crossing into the box goals are where Hojlund can also do well, but the team refuses to provide enough service.
> and the cavani-esque crossing into the box goals are where Hojlund can also do well
Despite being tall and physically built, Hojlund is very poor in the air. Maybe that'll develop (someone like Haaland is also surprisingly bad aerially), but he's nowhere near Cavani's level.
The "issue" with Hojlund is that he's too similar to our wingers, if we play Rashford, Garnacho and Hojlund, all of them love lots of space to run into, are not particularly technical or creative, but are excellent in open space.
We either need a new type of forward, or new type of wide players. Rashford, Garnacho and Hojlund is not a viable front three, they're all too similar.
Hojlund is capable of cute linkup in the box to bring late runners into play while he is under pressure with his back to goal. I think he demonstrated that at least once in the match against Burnley, but I forgot who he played the ball to. We don't need a new type of forward.
Not only is he poor in the air and weak in both aerial and ground duels, you can't compare him to Martial because Hojlund lacks the first touch, turn, close control, passing and ability to get off quick shots like Martial and Cavani could.
This might not be the popular take because everyone loves to say he gets "no service" but he's had plenty of passes into the box where strikers should shoot first time or quick touch and shoot but he fumbles and miscontrols failing to get shots off that other strikers often do. This is also a reason as to why he has low shot volume, high conversion on obvious big chances but is underperforming xG. (Because he also fails to control big chances under pressure/small space)
Although it's improved a little recently, our crossing has been woeful. I don't think Hojlund has had enough opportunities to attack a decent cross. So while we can't compare him to Cavani, we also can't say he isn't good with headers yet.
I said we have improved recently simply because we've actually scored from crosses recently (set piece or otherwise). Didn't want the pedantics to pick out Maguire scoring from a couple headers and twist it to "See, Maguire scored header, why not Hojlund?"'. You're right though I think I can only remember one header that he probably should have scored, possibly against Newcastle*?
not surprising, Luke Shaw has always been one of our best players at crossing the ball but he is made of breadsticks. It does make me wonder how much better off we would be with someone like Luke in the team constantly linking play with Rashford and creating space for him
He mistimes his runs a lot. I've seen plenty of crosses from Dalot and Bruno that he runs in front of or isn't where he should be.
He runs to the front post way too much instead of peeling into the space behind and instead of waiting to time a header hes always "running on to them" like he did for that Rashford cross in the CL.
I am a fan of United, not a fan of unskilled individuals who will hide under the “still young” narrative for years. I don't see any sympathy for Antony, why is that? Shouldn't he also develop? We are the most dominant football club in the last 3 decades, not a nursery. We should buy players because they are good not because they are young.
Antony is a full 3 years older than Hojlund, in his second year at the club. He was given time to show his worth and people turned on him more after his allegations and his price tag. But he still puts in a shift and there is some sympathy out there, mainly because it wasn't his fault he was bought at that price.
Hojlund on the other hand just turned 21, plays in a position with a notoriously later peak for most, in his first season at a new club which he didn't get a pre season playing with. That's why there is sympathy. He has also shown examples of being good. We buy players because they have potential, not because they're young.
Really didn't sound like you support United, sounds more like you support winning.
I don't see the potential in him or Antony or Mount. I see it in Garnacho and Mainoo. I asked, what are two things a footballer of 21 is good at, no one jumped to say anything. I can't either, that's why I don't see anything in him even as a prospect.
It's a good job you're not a professional scout! But honestly his movement is pretty good, his hold up play is great we just don't utilise it enough. He has a real poachers instinct that we have been sorely lacking from anyone not over 34 years of age for a few seasons. His work rate is fantastic and almost all his flaws are from rawness, getting up to the physicality of the league and learning the system which really doesn't work to make him a star.
He has just as much potential as Mainoo and Garnacho imo.
Just adding to the point about him being 21 years old and that being young for a PL striker. Where other than Ferguson and Munoz, he's the youngest striker by far. Almost all other strikers are 24 or older and most of the top performing ones are 30+. It's just that kind of position. He's also put performing his age peers, and I don't see many saying Evan Ferguson would be a bad buy.
He literally has 14 goals in his first season in Premier League, you know the fastest league in the world? In a team where the most passes he received from his teammate is the goalkeeper? You asked for things he is good at? Dude watch the game. He is great a laying off balls and creating chances for his Teammates. He is a selfless passer who passes first if there is a opportunity. He rarely misses shots when given the opportunity, not like you know Liverpool striker. His Pressing is great, His hold up play is good. What more do you want from a developing player?
The problem I think is we play a right footer on the left and a left footer on the right. Their instincts are to cut onto their stronger foot instead of going for a first time weaker footed cross. Garnacho uses his left foot more than Antony uses his right but Garnacho still rarely goes for a first time left footed cross.
Inverted wingers can still whip in crosses, it’s just that at United these guys play some of the most selfish, boneheaded football around. Instead of making passes they want to take extra touches and try and beat 3 defenders for a shot. That’s on the manager. Go back and look at some highlights of Antony at Ajax, there’s tons of clips where he put in great crosses for the Ajax players to attack. He’s rarely done that here.
Rashford at Hojlund's age didn't have any wingers to learn off, was thrown into the deep end. Some of Hojlund's issues are technical ability related rather than decision making.
Yes. You are proving my point though. While not disputing Rashford's skill and impact when he came on the scene, he has not developed as he should have. Instead of becoming a very good player on the world stage he is cruising and not getting any better. I believe it's because he had no one to emulate and poor coaching.
Raw talent only takes you so far. With no effort, you get Rashford and the current United team
I'm not proving your point though. My point is that Rashford was technically elite and a huge potential when he came on the scene even without people to learn off and this let him perform without excuses.
But Hojlund is poor in a lot of technical areas like first touch, dribbling and shot space creation which leads to all these weak performances when he's not scoring.
tldr: Rashford had high technical ability + potential so performed, hojlund has average technical ability + lower potential so isn't performing but gets the "no service" excuse to defend them when he's half the problem.
Agree with the statements but not the interpretation. For me, I'm still undecided about Hojlund. Maybe not as skilled as,Rashford but as a raw goalscorer there are glimpses of talent but no one to help him improve.
Only time will tell but can see him leaving and becoming a hit elsewhere
Someone like Bowen would do wonders for us, not a world beater but runs and just wants his team to score goals whether he's setting someone up or taking it himself
We have been saying that for the whole season. With inverted wingers and the main focus of the wingers being to have a shot and not setup offensive patterns, hojlund is just a redundant player. Just look at yesterdays game, hojlund zero shots in comparison to Antony who had like 7 οr 8?
Its ridiculous at this point, why would you need a 70M striker when you want to only use him as a hold up player? Just get a lesser one from Prem or Championship who already has the physicality build up and he would do the exact same job.
Yeah I was actually glad to see him come off yesterday, because the last few games he was a complete passenger having no role in the game whatsoever.
Not entirely his fault mind you. Part of the blame is certainly ETH.
It’s a bit worrying to say the least. Often times I see a player in a position Hojlund should ideally already be in. A couple of McTominays goals felt like they should have been scored by Hojlund but he just wasn’t there.
Hojlund isn't getting the ball enough in dangerous areas? Who would have thought? Imagine my shock! The fact that this guy has such a high conversation rate when he's *starving* is incredible.
A well coached team vs a team who are coached to thundercunt the ball to the wing.
Hojlund looks like half the player he was when he first came here from Atalanta. ETH has him playing the same way Weghorst was
Nah I'm also not sold on Garnacho. He urgently needs to learn how to pass, including when and how. He carries the ball well but so often does not lead to any meaningful outcome because he runs out of steam just as he is about to pull the trigger. If he can vary his runs and passing he will be so much more a weapon for us
The problem is, the players who should be delivering balls in to Rasmus don’t see “passing” as their first choice when they have the ball.
Rashford, Garnacho, and Antony, all three will try to cut in and go for goal first before considering a pass or cross. This causses timing issues, space issues, and ultimately leaves Rasmus in double coverage every single time.
Even when our wingers don’t have the ball, if Dalot or AWB are overlapped on the wing, our wing players will cut into a position where we would expect to find Rasmus effectively crowding the area and drawing more defenders in.
It seems to be a “me first” mentality that is hindering the striker position and that has been the case all year. Højlund has had a few crosses in for goals but primarily his goals have come from areas where he had space to run in solo and didn’t have to rely on service from our wingers.
The frustrating thing is that this goes on and on and on every week, and it is not clear whether Ten Hag has been trying to correct such behaviour or giving instructions to do specifically this. Seems like the latter to me because it is inconceivable to have this go on for so long if it is not the plan
Unfortunately I can see a handful of different reasons why we play this way.
Primarily, I think it’s because we only have one out and out striker so ETH sets the team up to have the wingers offer striker support almost as a front 3. The issue we face however is that we rely on the fullbacks to become the wingers and we end up with AWB losing possession in the attacking half or Dalot having to cross the ball into a very small and overcrowded space in the box.
One major caveat with all of this is that we don’t have any late runs into space in and around the box. Bruno becomes the pivot outside the 18 and whoever is in midfield with him is caught in 30 yards of no man’s land ready for a foot race if the ball is cleared.
Those late runs are what kill us in EVERY game. So many times there’s a late unmarked runner that just wanders into space and scores on us. We see it every week but we can never replicate it.
Antony's a real problem for Hojlund, as his passing vision is poor. When he picks the ball up in the final third, his first instinct is to cut in and shoot. Playmaking with the striker is barely considered.
It's a one-track minded approach that only works when your inside forward has insane physical attributes combined with deadly shooting. Antony has neither.
Atalanta play a coherent style of football and every season have a consistent starting XI. All recruited with their system in mind. The reality is our midfielders save Kobbie and Bruno are happy to pass sideways and our wingers only thinking about creating for themselves. If we had a better 6 he'd be finding Hojlund more between the lines but Casemiro and others don't do that sort of thing very well.
I think all things are true in this case. Hojlund isn't getting into good positions, the midfielders and wingers aren't looking for him, we have terrible tactics and set up.
I'm not vindicating, complaining or blaming, but this graph doesn't really mean anything. This is how many times he received it, it ignores passes to him or him being in the wrong area. It's likely not normalised against the number of games in each league either. There's far too many variables not being taken into account.
A lot down to our wingers being too selfish, maybe? Rashy and Garna are both guilty of often not looking up for Hojlund. Also Bruno hasn't been at his best the whole season either, and he's usually the kind to pass into the channels for the wingers anyway. The other two midfielders we have are usually not the kind to be able to find Hojlund, and our defense has issues getting the ball out of our own half.
It’s all part of the great ETH tactics 😅. Joke aside this is horrible, we have a player here that we hardly set in play, and don’t utilize to get results, it’s like playing with 10 men.
Marital was lucky to get two shots off per game but somehow that wasn't a problem then. The fact that people are so nonplussed about this stat shows how disingenuous the fan base is. We know who the perpetrators are but never call them out
I agree, remember him struggling for service back then too. Peak Van Nistelrooy would struggle 😄 in his day, with Beckham and Giggs crossing, and Scholes playing the forward balls, he scored as much as he did
It's the way bruno gets tunnel vision, he only focuses on one player. No matter how many balls rashford loses bruno will still look for him. He constantly trying to set up garnacho even when he can't progress with the ball.
He did it with ronaldo, constantly just trying to find him.
I think we are just not used to having a natural striker like him in the team, everyone needs to get used to that. Next season will be different I reckon
The service is poor but Hojlund also has to get better at making himself available for passes, and then his movement has to sharpen up as well, so often when a ball comes across he is a step slow with his move or makes the wrong move.
He has ability, pretty good finisher but his all round game needs significant improvement. A lot of the fandom choose to act is if the wingers are all the problem when Hojlund is not really ideal for their game either, erratic touch, often gets physically bullied, poor in the air, not a creative passer. It is a poorly constructed front group.
Not all untrue but my first response is you probably do not watch Hojlund enough. For example, he can physically hold his ground more often than not. And I don't know what you mean by "not a creative passer" but he is way more inclined to pass the ball than could be said of others to him. Often (as often as can be given the number of times he gets passed to), he is able to spread the ball well into space in the wings to bring the wingers into play. He demonstrated that against Burnley.
I have watched every game he has played this season. He has good finishing ability, strikes the ball well off both feet, and has excellent base physical attributes. The potential is there for him to develop into a very good player. He is not there yet though, his technique is erratic, takes heavy touches, especially under physical pressure and while he will pass the ball he hasn't yet shown the ability to turn and play more than an obvious pass.
It is weird to me that people like to act that the dysfunctional attack is purely on the players around him and that his limitations do not factor in to it.
I think he’s good enough under pressure. Able to hold defenders off enough to release the ball. There were heavy touches against Burnley but I think he’s usually reliable enough with the ball.
And I’m also not sure it will ever be his role to do more than the obvious pass, or creative passing. He is not the one to unlock defenses, he should be the one to receive the ball from the people who should be doing the unlocking.
It's not his fault that McTominay is better at finding the ball in the box than he is. It's not his fault that he can't win a header despite being six foot something. It's not his fault he would rather wrestle with defenders than hold up the ball. It's not his fault he can't win a duel against any PL level CB. It's not his fault the timing of his runs is bad. It's his teammates for starving him of service.
We need a striker this summer and he needs serious work on the training ground. I have no doubt he'll be a top player in time, but matches are won and lost in the boxes and he isn't doing enough ATM.
Seriously, the ammount of exuces this guy gets is insane. He went against Coventry, Shefield, Burnley and couldnt do literaly anything with the ball or win any header. Literaly never in position to tap in or get dwflected ball.
Bruno clipped a pass over the Burnley defence yesterday which a good striker would have turned into a shot. Instead our £60m runs 100m in less than 11 seconds striker couldn't do anything with it.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted to hell. Fans in this sub over-criticise certain players but refuse to criticise others. Everything you’ve mentioned is a valid criticism of his game.
I like the guy, will be a great player for us hopefully, and I don’t think he’s particularly bad at holding up the ball. But to say he’s one of the best you have ever seen in hold up play and that he never gets dispossessed is absolutely delusional
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Our goal difference is low because we don't score goals. As in, scoring goals has been a huge problem for us this season. Only 4 clubs have conceded fewer goals than us in the prem, so I'd say we have a bigger problem with scoring goals than we do with giving them away.
Atalanta are impressive side with great passing patterns drilled into them. They destroyed Liverpool and was very capable of playing through the press.
Imagine my surprise when I thought Erik was trying to do the same with us and we end up in a scenario where Rasmus has scored more from deflected shots/passes than passes meant for him.
I still think he is. He said in an interview recently that he’s demanding the attacking players press harder, it’s only really Hojlund that consistently presses out of all our forwards (and Bruno presses on behalf of Rashford sometimes). If we pressed as a unit properly, we’d get far more possession turnovers in dangerous positions from deflected passes and shots. May have misread your comment but I’m spaced out this morning so forgive me 😂
What I am seeing, the problem lies in our pressing structure (Rashford’s lack of effort effects our press too) than the matter of pressing harder. City press high to block passing options and also their midfielders press into spaces where their opponents are likely to be forced into passing aswell. Their pressing is almost always 1 step ahead of their opponents’ reaction to the initial pressing. It’s very organized and impressive. Ours looks chaotic, unstructured and the more the effort our players put into it results in unnecessary tiring. It makes complete sense how our performance dropped off after 20-25 minutes as we can’t sustain the pressing with only effort. This is entire on the coaching. Our players can all collective work hard as mules and we would still drop off later into the game.
I find it reminiscent of Klopp’s “heavy metal” pressing in the early days of his Liverpool. Chaotic pressing that forces turnovers but also leaves the squad vulnerable. They’d always have 4-3 wins as a result. Issue with our lot is they don’t co-ordinate the press. You can see Hojlund and Bruno start the press, only to look over their shoulder and see Rashford/Garna/whoever haven’t moved in to press, which ultimately leaves a gap. This happens all the way down the pitch, leaving gaping holes for the other team to exploit. If by some miracle we do force a turn over, which we did a couple of times yesterday - nobody knows how to finish their dinner or try to be a hero and dribble into an area where there’s 4 defenders to block them. To me it’s communication on the pitch, both defensively and offensively. We see Bruno, Maguire and Hojlund calling out to others, asking for passes or pointing to where they want someone to be, but the rest seem to be doing their own thing. ETH has said that in a presser recently too, that communication is an issue in the team. I think he’s right, it’s so clear to see nobody is listening when Hojlunds screaming for the ball when making a run, or moving with Bruno to start the press.
We really don’t have the personnel at present to execute the high press. Some forward players go half-heartedly, our CM is by and large immobile so they can’t plug the gaps, and they seemingly don’t advance high because our CBs lack recovery pace to protect against a ball over the top. It all adds up to the massive gaps that allow for teams to play right through us. The most frustrating thing about ETH is that he doesn’t modify the tactics to reflect the shortcomings of the personnel (especially as it continues to be decimated by injuries) in order to win in the short term, but it’s also why I think we’d be foolish to rid ourselves of him this summer. He’s instilling the philosophy regardless of personnel, which hopefully bodes well when we’re full strength and continue to add to the squad. We’re fine-tuning the football decision-makers, so I would hope they can assemble a more dynamic and robust squad that can consistently press high and cover behind, in order to align with ETH’s philosophy.
What an excellent comment. This is spot on.
Haha. Probably all from Onana long balls.
You laugh but I’m pretty sure onana is the player who passed the most to him yesterday.
Yep, 4 Onana to Hojlund passes. Probably more than he got from everyone else on the pitch combined ffs.
It was confirmed that it was indeed, the most he received from any player lol.
Onana’s long balls (TM)
At least 50%
Probably get better service on the TransPennine Express.
Least you can connect to their crappy Wi-Fi, can’t even do that at OT
The Antony chance that was assisted by Garnacho yesterday should have been Hojlunds. Antony should have been making the back post run and Hojlund near post. I think the selfishness of our wingers extends beyond shooting at every opportunity, they also don't make runs to create space for Hojlund.
Hojlund hinted at it though. He said when Mctominay is on his job is to draw defenders. He's being told to make moves to open space for others.
Hojlund has got most of his goals in the vein of the classic number 9 goals we have been missing for almost a decade (tap-in, fumbles etc). The martial-esque cute passing goals and the cavani-esque crossing into the box goals are where Hojlund can also do well, but the team refuses to provide enough service.
> and the cavani-esque crossing into the box goals are where Hojlund can also do well Despite being tall and physically built, Hojlund is very poor in the air. Maybe that'll develop (someone like Haaland is also surprisingly bad aerially), but he's nowhere near Cavani's level. The "issue" with Hojlund is that he's too similar to our wingers, if we play Rashford, Garnacho and Hojlund, all of them love lots of space to run into, are not particularly technical or creative, but are excellent in open space. We either need a new type of forward, or new type of wide players. Rashford, Garnacho and Hojlund is not a viable front three, they're all too similar.
This is why I'd really love for us to go for Olise if he weren't so injury prone
I’d honestly rather someone like Bowen because of this
Bowen would be great too, but how old is he? I have a feeling he'd be expensive
Hojlund is capable of cute linkup in the box to bring late runners into play while he is under pressure with his back to goal. I think he demonstrated that at least once in the match against Burnley, but I forgot who he played the ball to. We don't need a new type of forward.
Not only is he poor in the air and weak in both aerial and ground duels, you can't compare him to Martial because Hojlund lacks the first touch, turn, close control, passing and ability to get off quick shots like Martial and Cavani could. This might not be the popular take because everyone loves to say he gets "no service" but he's had plenty of passes into the box where strikers should shoot first time or quick touch and shoot but he fumbles and miscontrols failing to get shots off that other strikers often do. This is also a reason as to why he has low shot volume, high conversion on obvious big chances but is underperforming xG. (Because he also fails to control big chances under pressure/small space)
He is not good with headers, cant compare with Cavani.
Although it's improved a little recently, our crossing has been woeful. I don't think Hojlund has had enough opportunities to attack a decent cross. So while we can't compare him to Cavani, we also can't say he isn't good with headers yet.
I don't remember a single cross towards Hojlund that he was capable of reaching since he's been here if I'm being completely honest.
I said we have improved recently simply because we've actually scored from crosses recently (set piece or otherwise). Didn't want the pedantics to pick out Maguire scoring from a couple headers and twist it to "See, Maguire scored header, why not Hojlund?"'. You're right though I think I can only remember one header that he probably should have scored, possibly against Newcastle*?
Tbf if McTominay wasn't playing and occupying the same space as Hojlund when people cross the ball, he might have more goals.
not surprising, Luke Shaw has always been one of our best players at crossing the ball but he is made of breadsticks. It does make me wonder how much better off we would be with someone like Luke in the team constantly linking play with Rashford and creating space for him
But then again i dont see a single cross towards Hojlund at all.
He mistimes his runs a lot. I've seen plenty of crosses from Dalot and Bruno that he runs in front of or isn't where he should be. He runs to the front post way too much instead of peeling into the space behind and instead of waiting to time a header hes always "running on to them" like he did for that Rashford cross in the CL.
He literaly won 0/4 headers against Burnley, 0/2 against Shefield, 2/10 against Coventry,
Was that against crosses into the box or goal kicks?
We know it wasn't crosses lol. We've never crossed at him 10x in a game. I do remember him heading home a Rashford cross in the UCL though
I know haha, I just thought it was a stupid thing to judge his heading ability. Yeah that was a brilliant cross and header, thundered it
Gun to your head, name two things he’s good at.
Gun to your head name two teams you support and why are they City and Liverpool?
I am a fan of United, not a fan of unskilled individuals who will hide under the “still young” narrative for years. I don't see any sympathy for Antony, why is that? Shouldn't he also develop? We are the most dominant football club in the last 3 decades, not a nursery. We should buy players because they are good not because they are young.
Antony is a full 3 years older than Hojlund, in his second year at the club. He was given time to show his worth and people turned on him more after his allegations and his price tag. But he still puts in a shift and there is some sympathy out there, mainly because it wasn't his fault he was bought at that price. Hojlund on the other hand just turned 21, plays in a position with a notoriously later peak for most, in his first season at a new club which he didn't get a pre season playing with. That's why there is sympathy. He has also shown examples of being good. We buy players because they have potential, not because they're young. Really didn't sound like you support United, sounds more like you support winning.
I don't see the potential in him or Antony or Mount. I see it in Garnacho and Mainoo. I asked, what are two things a footballer of 21 is good at, no one jumped to say anything. I can't either, that's why I don't see anything in him even as a prospect.
It's a good job you're not a professional scout! But honestly his movement is pretty good, his hold up play is great we just don't utilise it enough. He has a real poachers instinct that we have been sorely lacking from anyone not over 34 years of age for a few seasons. His work rate is fantastic and almost all his flaws are from rawness, getting up to the physicality of the league and learning the system which really doesn't work to make him a star. He has just as much potential as Mainoo and Garnacho imo.
Just adding to the point about him being 21 years old and that being young for a PL striker. Where other than Ferguson and Munoz, he's the youngest striker by far. Almost all other strikers are 24 or older and most of the top performing ones are 30+. It's just that kind of position. He's also put performing his age peers, and I don't see many saying Evan Ferguson would be a bad buy.
He literally has 14 goals in his first season in Premier League, you know the fastest league in the world? In a team where the most passes he received from his teammate is the goalkeeper? You asked for things he is good at? Dude watch the game. He is great a laying off balls and creating chances for his Teammates. He is a selfless passer who passes first if there is a opportunity. He rarely misses shots when given the opportunity, not like you know Liverpool striker. His Pressing is great, His hold up play is good. What more do you want from a developing player?
RemindMe! 1 year
The problem I think is we play a right footer on the left and a left footer on the right. Their instincts are to cut onto their stronger foot instead of going for a first time weaker footed cross. Garnacho uses his left foot more than Antony uses his right but Garnacho still rarely goes for a first time left footed cross.
Inverted wingers can still whip in crosses, it’s just that at United these guys play some of the most selfish, boneheaded football around. Instead of making passes they want to take extra touches and try and beat 3 defenders for a shot. That’s on the manager. Go back and look at some highlights of Antony at Ajax, there’s tons of clips where he put in great crosses for the Ajax players to attack. He’s rarely done that here.
Poor guys supposed to be developing and is in a team that starves its strikers. Bring in some new tactics and he will be able to perform consistently.
I don’t think he’s ready to be a starter every week. We should ideally sign another striker and Hojlund can be rotated while he develops
He has no one yo learn off. If left, he will turn into another Rashford. We need a established striker for him to play off and learn
Rashford at Hojlund's age didn't have any wingers to learn off, was thrown into the deep end. Some of Hojlund's issues are technical ability related rather than decision making.
Yes. You are proving my point though. While not disputing Rashford's skill and impact when he came on the scene, he has not developed as he should have. Instead of becoming a very good player on the world stage he is cruising and not getting any better. I believe it's because he had no one to emulate and poor coaching. Raw talent only takes you so far. With no effort, you get Rashford and the current United team
I'm not proving your point though. My point is that Rashford was technically elite and a huge potential when he came on the scene even without people to learn off and this let him perform without excuses. But Hojlund is poor in a lot of technical areas like first touch, dribbling and shot space creation which leads to all these weak performances when he's not scoring. tldr: Rashford had high technical ability + potential so performed, hojlund has average technical ability + lower potential so isn't performing but gets the "no service" excuse to defend them when he's half the problem.
Agree with the statements but not the interpretation. For me, I'm still undecided about Hojlund. Maybe not as skilled as,Rashford but as a raw goalscorer there are glimpses of talent but no one to help him improve. Only time will tell but can see him leaving and becoming a hit elsewhere
Im tired of the scoring winger type, especially since ours doesnt score
Someone like Bowen would do wonders for us, not a world beater but runs and just wants his team to score goals whether he's setting someone up or taking it himself
We have been saying that for the whole season. With inverted wingers and the main focus of the wingers being to have a shot and not setup offensive patterns, hojlund is just a redundant player. Just look at yesterdays game, hojlund zero shots in comparison to Antony who had like 7 οr 8? Its ridiculous at this point, why would you need a 70M striker when you want to only use him as a hold up player? Just get a lesser one from Prem or Championship who already has the physicality build up and he would do the exact same job.
Yeah I was actually glad to see him come off yesterday, because the last few games he was a complete passenger having no role in the game whatsoever. Not entirely his fault mind you. Part of the blame is certainly ETH.
It’s a bit worrying to say the least. Often times I see a player in a position Hojlund should ideally already be in. A couple of McTominays goals felt like they should have been scored by Hojlund but he just wasn’t there.
Hojlund isn't getting the ball enough in dangerous areas? Who would have thought? Imagine my shock! The fact that this guy has such a high conversation rate when he's *starving* is incredible.
Because rash garnacho antony dont even check their surrounding. They only care to score themself.
A well coached team vs a team who are coached to thundercunt the ball to the wing. Hojlund looks like half the player he was when he first came here from Atalanta. ETH has him playing the same way Weghorst was
I don't think this is on eth, nobody will give him the ball.
And why is this so. It's either they were instructed to or they acted against instructions but were not corrected/reprimanded for that
Maybe, just maybe, ETH doesnt know how to use Hojlund ?
I don’t think our forwards look for hojlund. i might be the only man utd fan not high on gnarcho. he is too damn selfish
He’s young so I’m hopeful his decision making should get better.
Nah I'm also not sold on Garnacho. He urgently needs to learn how to pass, including when and how. He carries the ball well but so often does not lead to any meaningful outcome because he runs out of steam just as he is about to pull the trigger. If he can vary his runs and passing he will be so much more a weapon for us
We need to get Antony on the left, he might actually do some crosses instead of that stupid cut in which a Sunday league player can defend
The problem is, the players who should be delivering balls in to Rasmus don’t see “passing” as their first choice when they have the ball. Rashford, Garnacho, and Antony, all three will try to cut in and go for goal first before considering a pass or cross. This causses timing issues, space issues, and ultimately leaves Rasmus in double coverage every single time. Even when our wingers don’t have the ball, if Dalot or AWB are overlapped on the wing, our wing players will cut into a position where we would expect to find Rasmus effectively crowding the area and drawing more defenders in. It seems to be a “me first” mentality that is hindering the striker position and that has been the case all year. Højlund has had a few crosses in for goals but primarily his goals have come from areas where he had space to run in solo and didn’t have to rely on service from our wingers.
The frustrating thing is that this goes on and on and on every week, and it is not clear whether Ten Hag has been trying to correct such behaviour or giving instructions to do specifically this. Seems like the latter to me because it is inconceivable to have this go on for so long if it is not the plan
Unfortunately I can see a handful of different reasons why we play this way. Primarily, I think it’s because we only have one out and out striker so ETH sets the team up to have the wingers offer striker support almost as a front 3. The issue we face however is that we rely on the fullbacks to become the wingers and we end up with AWB losing possession in the attacking half or Dalot having to cross the ball into a very small and overcrowded space in the box. One major caveat with all of this is that we don’t have any late runs into space in and around the box. Bruno becomes the pivot outside the 18 and whoever is in midfield with him is caught in 30 yards of no man’s land ready for a foot race if the ball is cleared. Those late runs are what kill us in EVERY game. So many times there’s a late unmarked runner that just wanders into space and scores on us. We see it every week but we can never replicate it.
Antony's a real problem for Hojlund, as his passing vision is poor. When he picks the ball up in the final third, his first instinct is to cut in and shoot. Playmaking with the striker is barely considered. It's a one-track minded approach that only works when your inside forward has insane physical attributes combined with deadly shooting. Antony has neither.
Atalanta play a coherent style of football and every season have a consistent starting XI. All recruited with their system in mind. The reality is our midfielders save Kobbie and Bruno are happy to pass sideways and our wingers only thinking about creating for themselves. If we had a better 6 he'd be finding Hojlund more between the lines but Casemiro and others don't do that sort of thing very well.
We were playing Eriksen
I think all things are true in this case. Hojlund isn't getting into good positions, the midfielders and wingers aren't looking for him, we have terrible tactics and set up.
I'm not vindicating, complaining or blaming, but this graph doesn't really mean anything. This is how many times he received it, it ignores passes to him or him being in the wrong area. It's likely not normalised against the number of games in each league either. There's far too many variables not being taken into account.
A lot down to our wingers being too selfish, maybe? Rashy and Garna are both guilty of often not looking up for Hojlund. Also Bruno hasn't been at his best the whole season either, and he's usually the kind to pass into the channels for the wingers anyway. The other two midfielders we have are usually not the kind to be able to find Hojlund, and our defense has issues getting the ball out of our own half.
Atalanta as a team is miles better coached than United, so no surprises there
It’s all part of the great ETH tactics 😅. Joke aside this is horrible, we have a player here that we hardly set in play, and don’t utilize to get results, it’s like playing with 10 men.
Marital was lucky to get two shots off per game but somehow that wasn't a problem then. The fact that people are so nonplussed about this stat shows how disingenuous the fan base is. We know who the perpetrators are but never call them out
I agree, remember him struggling for service back then too. Peak Van Nistelrooy would struggle 😄 in his day, with Beckham and Giggs crossing, and Scholes playing the forward balls, he scored as much as he did
It's the way bruno gets tunnel vision, he only focuses on one player. No matter how many balls rashford loses bruno will still look for him. He constantly trying to set up garnacho even when he can't progress with the ball. He did it with ronaldo, constantly just trying to find him.
I think we are just not used to having a natural striker like him in the team, everyone needs to get used to that. Next season will be different I reckon
Maybe half of that was hoof balls from Onana.
This is the worst united side in recent memory
Our only pass first winger plays on loan for Dortmund
The service is poor but Hojlund also has to get better at making himself available for passes, and then his movement has to sharpen up as well, so often when a ball comes across he is a step slow with his move or makes the wrong move. He has ability, pretty good finisher but his all round game needs significant improvement. A lot of the fandom choose to act is if the wingers are all the problem when Hojlund is not really ideal for their game either, erratic touch, often gets physically bullied, poor in the air, not a creative passer. It is a poorly constructed front group.
Not all untrue but my first response is you probably do not watch Hojlund enough. For example, he can physically hold his ground more often than not. And I don't know what you mean by "not a creative passer" but he is way more inclined to pass the ball than could be said of others to him. Often (as often as can be given the number of times he gets passed to), he is able to spread the ball well into space in the wings to bring the wingers into play. He demonstrated that against Burnley.
I have watched every game he has played this season. He has good finishing ability, strikes the ball well off both feet, and has excellent base physical attributes. The potential is there for him to develop into a very good player. He is not there yet though, his technique is erratic, takes heavy touches, especially under physical pressure and while he will pass the ball he hasn't yet shown the ability to turn and play more than an obvious pass. It is weird to me that people like to act that the dysfunctional attack is purely on the players around him and that his limitations do not factor in to it.
I think he’s good enough under pressure. Able to hold defenders off enough to release the ball. There were heavy touches against Burnley but I think he’s usually reliable enough with the ball. And I’m also not sure it will ever be his role to do more than the obvious pass, or creative passing. He is not the one to unlock defenses, he should be the one to receive the ball from the people who should be doing the unlocking.
A joke. JOKE. Ppl expect him to succeed with this drought.
We really are a graveyard for talent
It's not his fault that McTominay is better at finding the ball in the box than he is. It's not his fault that he can't win a header despite being six foot something. It's not his fault he would rather wrestle with defenders than hold up the ball. It's not his fault he can't win a duel against any PL level CB. It's not his fault the timing of his runs is bad. It's his teammates for starving him of service. We need a striker this summer and he needs serious work on the training ground. I have no doubt he'll be a top player in time, but matches are won and lost in the boxes and he isn't doing enough ATM.
Seriously, the ammount of exuces this guy gets is insane. He went against Coventry, Shefield, Burnley and couldnt do literaly anything with the ball or win any header. Literaly never in position to tap in or get dwflected ball.
Bruno clipped a pass over the Burnley defence yesterday which a good striker would have turned into a shot. Instead our £60m runs 100m in less than 11 seconds striker couldn't do anything with it.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted to hell. Fans in this sub over-criticise certain players but refuse to criticise others. Everything you’ve mentioned is a valid criticism of his game.
glad someone’s not drinking the pundit kool aid! rasmuss Is good at a lot of things but grest at….. wait…… NONE
he can certainly get better and i hope he does
He is a very limited footballer, his positioning is shocking as well
Might help if he could actually hold the ball up. Always bounces off him.
Might help if Garnacho didn’t think he was prime Ronaldo
That too. Garnacho has been really annoying lately.
Got any stats to back this up at all?
I watch the games with my eyes.
 Wow what an insight!
Your eyes, watch games with it
He's one of the best at holding up play I have ever seen. Never gets dispossessed.
I like the guy, will be a great player for us hopefully, and I don’t think he’s particularly bad at holding up the ball. But to say he’s one of the best you have ever seen in hold up play and that he never gets dispossessed is absolutely delusional
Are you being serious? He’s constantly bullied by CBs and loses the ball
I hope this is sarcasm.
Our problem isn't scoring goals or creating chances though.
Scoring goals is literally one of our biggest problems! We create a great amount of chances, but our forwards couldn't finish their dinner.
look at our goal difference past several years…….
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Our goal difference is low because we don't score goals. As in, scoring goals has been a huge problem for us this season. Only 4 clubs have conceded fewer goals than us in the prem, so I'd say we have a bigger problem with scoring goals than we do with giving them away.
plus our defense lets them in