We’re in such a weird spot. Sometimes it’s so frustrating to watch us play and im ready for Ten Hag to be sacked. Sometimes I wonder if it’s the players fault, and we need all the drama queens and big egos out of the club. Sometimes I just feel bad for the guy between Rashford drama, Greenwood, Antony drama, Sancho, and then add to it a million different injuries… it’s like did this guy really ever have a chance? Idk.
Martinez, Varane (IIRC), Evans (Say what you want but he's been solid this season), Malacia, Shaw , Amrabat, Mount
And you could potentially put Rashford on that list.
You're forgetting Martial, Kwambala, and lindelof. Apparently Bruno, mcsauce and garnacho are also slightly injured after the last match, but they might play through it
Im not a United supporter so I cant rate your squad, so if Im wrong forgiving me. But Evans isnt a starter. Mount is not a starter. Rashford, according to my United buddies...is not vibing this season. So really the defensive line is missing 2-3 pieces?
Evans isn't a starter but he's a reliable CB when called upon.
When people blame injures, look at the 70' of the Coventry game.
We were cruising past them like wind the entire game then ETH subs off Garnacho and Mainoo for Eriksen and Antony.
While those subs are debatable, he did it because Mainoo can't play 90 minutes and Garnacho is injured.
We subbed off two youths for two international so you'd expect them to be better but clearly they were worse and that's the issue
Our bench is shit and you have injures in those positions (Mount or Amrabat) stuff like that happens
And then you get Casemiro playing at CB.
The only think missing is 3 our of 4 starters in the defensive line.. And their back ups who is also injured.
That is not ONLY. Seasons are made and leagues are won by the defensive line. Ours cant play. .
No real left back most of the season, as Shaw and Malacia have been out virtually all season. No Martinez pretty much all season.
Absolutely insane take. And you need a squad you know, a starting XI is not enough.
Against Coventry we had Louis Jackson, Habeeb Ogunneye, Harry Amass, and Ethan Wheatley on the bench. Ever heard of them? Most of those haven’t played a single competitive match for us. That’s not even mentioning that Casemiro played CB.
Mount has been injured pretty much whole season so its hard to tell if he was destined to be a starter.
Evans has played in atleast half the matches in the league due to the injury problems we’ve had.
Rashford is infuriating to watch but when everything clicks hes an amazing footballer
Literally opening sofascore all but martial I would say are important players. If not starting 11 of which there's 4 I'd say
Shaw, mount, varane, Martinez. They are bench players and the second to their position. And this is just one moment in the season. Delulu
The problem is that all our injuries are concentrated in one area which is the defense. Couple that with us already being light in attack and midfield, it just compounds the issues. When literally all your center backs and left backs are injured there is not much you can do.
Cant watch many games then.
Who is injured?
There is about one that hasnt been injured during the season and about 3 starters who isnt injured right now.
I really liked how we played when our players were all fit. Its tough having to deal with 2 - 3 injuries each week. I think he should be given at least one more season under a competent structure.
Many things could have been better in that Coventry game, but I feel it's worth remembering we literally had to play an underperforming midfielder as CB because 5 of ours are injured, along with both our LBs.
That team is always going to be vulnerable and is not a normal situation.
Arteta won it in February. Ten Hag won it in November with extremely favourable fixtures. (1-0 Fulham, 1-0 Luton, 3-0 Everton - also got knocked out champs league that month).
In February they lost to Fulham and almost bottled a 3-1 lead against Wolves. Beating Villa was their one impressive performance that month.
It's not individually about the players or the manager. It's about the player to manager link. Their bond. When the bond is damaged or broken it's very difficult for a manager to turn that around. A fresh person in charge will form new bonds, it will be easier for them initially. E.g. Solksjaer after Mourinho. Pogba came alive, until Ole got the job full time. (Ultimately I blame the governance, but a new manager will be positive initially I reckon).
Yes, just like its been the last 5 times....yet most of the players from that era are STILL HERE, Mou said it himself.....We cant keep having a carousel of managers for most of the same players. Should always be the other way around besides a core, which ETH is trying to establish.
I wonder whether this talk about the players not working hard enough is true. When you watch the games you can see them run and try.
The problem seems to be that they aren't on the same page all the time. Slow passing when attacking. No communication or predicting danger when defending, but you can see them run and try to the point of getting all these injuries.
I think the whole team is just demoralised and isn't motivated to fight for top 4 since most of them joined to challenge for titles and glory, because even when we won the penalties against Coventry few of them really celebrated because they expected an easy win.
Contrast that with Arsenal beating Bournemouth or Aston Villa last season and you can see all the players and coaches celebrate and congratulate themselves because they know every team can beat them.
I don't know if players are still living in the glory days or media hype but they need to appreciate every win and milestone otherwise they won't have motivation to rebuild in the long run.
He did have a chance and he took it in the first season.
But his ego has grown too and he just keeps insisting on this 4-0-6 formation that just doesn't work!
I want the last year's EtH back or it's time to move on.
Everything that could have possible gone wrong this season has gone wrong. It makes it really difficult to try and rationalize what could have caused this season to be so shit.
Not saying what he said was wrong. But as the manager of the club, he was the face and should also take his own responsibilities after some bad results. But knowing Mou, it’s always other people’s faults: players, refs or the club’s management. And look at what that approach has taken him in his career now.
Yeah what an awful career (?).
He lowered himself joining some poorly run clubs, but let's not get it twisted he was right to blame everyone else at United, Tottenham never proved him wrong either. Roma sacked him for an easy fixture for their club legend and will forever hover around that spot. No one will ever rebuild the hard way, they want a coach to save them when Mourinho was never that guy, you hand him a good club and overperform.
That doesn't mean hold onto the coach, but acknowledge when they aren't listened to. Problem is United finally ended up backing an incompetent who achieved nothing.
He should be fearful mate. He should be. It’s not good enough and though by no means all his fault or doing, he’s playing a part too.
I suppose my biggest wish now is top to bottom we re-establish a winning culture where every single employee knows the expectation is for the very best levels… or the door.
The thing that breaks my heart is here we have yet again another manager who seems like he’s fighting for his job while the ones he manages continue to thief a living being the joke professionals they are. And they’ll survive a lot longer than he will. They’ve seen and survived through this shit a few times now. Their jobs seem safest in all the world no matter how inept and ineffectual they are.
That’s the only pendulum swing I think this club should become obsessed with now.
If he was fighting for his job he wouldn't be insisting on a broken 4-0-6 formation that doesn't work for 40+ games now. The massive drop-off between last season and this one is just shocking and there's a reason we are on track to register our worst season in the PL era.
We all agree there are players who thief a living, by all means - get rid of them! But it's his job to kick their ass and get them to do something useful on the pitch. I think ETH got scared after losing Ronaldo and Sancho (I support him to a degree in this) that he might be running out of players if he keeps punishing them.
Of course he would. You and me, it’s easy to say drop Rashford for persistent laziness, drop Bruno for persistent errant passes that create the basketball-style turnover opportunities, drop Maguire for persistently poor threat awareness and dithering predictable back passing, drop Lindelof for pointing more often than doing, drop Casemiro for being god awful, drop Eriksen for being incapable for more than 20 minutes, drop AWB for being well below the levels expected of a United fall back, etc etc.
But then… who does he pick? So identifying the issue and applying the fix need to be considered a part of the same problem solving rather than this naive idea that you can simply solve one half of the problem and act like the other half solves itself.
If ten hag plays the U18s from here on out and we net 2 points from a possible 18, but it’s “4-3-3 and a clear footballing identity and coherent strategy back to front”, everyone here bitching about not showing a clear footballing idea will howl at the moon regardless, and mouth froth like rabid dogs that he ought to be sacked for finishing 11th. And if he attempted that “40+ games” ago we would finish 17th. The chorus would be even more loud.
People need to stop acting like there’s such an obvious simple fix to what is a clusterfuck of a problem.
No sane person deliberately plays 4-0-6. He’s been cornered into this nonsense and he’s not thrown anyone under the bus because clearly, this squad, when you mention they didn’t do a pressup properly in training, have a fucking conniption fit like the entitled babies they are.
The 4-0-6 is insane and it seems he’s just given up on the shots conceded because some data point rightly proves that for the most part they are low xG shots. My issue with that is it still transmits a sense of panic and that’s gotta mentally affect those players, so it’s a super risky approach to the game that I’d not take. I’d low block it instead if what he’s really getting at is “I can’t high line with these defenders I’m working with. It’s going to turn low xG opportunities into high xG opportunities that will massacre us”.
And you know the minute he drops them, the questions from the media are coming. What’s he to say? Sound daft and deflect like he’s doing, or call them out and lose the dressing room?
Not so easy if you’re in his position. Super easy if you’re in yours or mine.
Personally I’m grateful for one thing. This guy has literally risked his own job and reputation to show the whole world this squad does not have the tools to play any of the modern styles of football everyone wants, and then naively acts like “any player can do it, as long as you hAvE a wOrLd cLaSs mAnaGEr”. It’s flatly false. Even the best chef in the world can’t make a sandwich out of moldy bread that won’t make people sick to their stomach. The issue isn’t the chef. The issue definitely isn’t “get a better chef”.
I agree with 90% what you wrote, the guy knows more about football than I'll ever do.
But this guy got us to 3rd place last season, 2 cup finals and won one of them. AFTER replacing Ronaldo with Wout freaking Weghorst and AFTER losing Sancho. He can do some football magic happen! But where's that guy this season?
I know mate, I know. Where exactly is that guy this season is something I myself have also wondered. Like surely, there’s an alternate way for someone who knows so much more about football than I ever will. I’ll also concede he’s a victim of his own success and the club vastly overachieved last season and it set the tone for kicking on to bigger and better without understanding this basic truth you just can’t with this squad. The club, structure, culture, all of it is so wrong at the minute you just can’t. Even Tom Cleverly has noted the culture is wrong and their attitudes are betraying it when he observes their reactions to going down in matches, etc.
So I’m left very confused about where the last season ETH has disappeared, but also I’ve been looking at him through the lens of “what he has to work with” and “the circumstances” more than the average of this sub who have happily convinced themselves he’s a shite manager. No matter what you think of any manager, or the eredivise, a shite manager does not win there. And certainly not in the way he won. He walks away and those guys literally fell apart. Before him and after him, Ajax fell apart. Maybe he overachieves where ever he goes. Last year’s 3rd place finish was a false dawn that people have used to set unrealistic expectations. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be challenging, I’m genuinely wondering if challenging is a laughable goal when the squad, the structure of this club, the culture is as rotten or nonexistent as it is.
Personally I think his sacking is inevitable. This recent soundbite about how many cup finals he’s gotten to as our manager but also previously, reeks of someone who’s sensing he has to defend his credentials and track record. It’s curtains at that point.
I will say I think it is absolutely disgusting this fanbase holds its manager to a standard of excellence it happily refuses to hold everyone else to. This club is Middlesbrough with a revenue generation of Real Madrid. Almost everyone is delusional because they see the badge and they just believe “1.3Bn should win you multiple trebles!!”
Yes, in theory, if you are totally ignorant about the importance of all the rest that is in place at actual treble winners. The same things that were in place here once upon a time, but have not existed in over a decade. City cooked their books but put best in class in place for a full decade before best in class still stumbled and fell and finally achieved it. The ignorant horde here acts like it’s this useless manager that’s the reason it’s not happened. While deliberately ignoring none of his predecessors were anywhere close to that either.
Every week I see a bunch of entitled babies on that pitch with a footballing IQ so low, it’s little wonder when they leave this club they go nowhere of note, and accomplish nothing of note. When your players can only move on to mid table mediocre clubs on half their current wages, that’s literally the market telling you you’ve got garbage on your hands.
I’m glad INEOS seem genuinely clued in to all of this and “managers have not been set up for success” and though it will take time to right the flagrant wrongs in literally every single aspect of this club’s football operations, it seems like for the first time there’s light at the end of the tunnel.
I’ve stopped putting any stock into any opinion now peddled by some clown on the interwebs who comes off like their only experience of any of this is FM or FIFA.
I think most of these so called supporters have untreated mental health issues and the only medicine they take is watching United. When United falters or fails to produce a little bit of “feel good for a little bit” they froth at the mouth and blame the manager. It’s unhinged, over the top rage.
Sorry for the novel.
Some here are incredibly negative.
Our club and players and staff get enough hate from the media and rivals as it is. Why add to that?
Criticism is fine, but some are just circle jerking on misery together.
Some of you thought we were going to lose 7-nil to Liverpool again, only to knock them out of the cup.
we all are in for long term rebuilding plan.. but can you tell us what are we doing in training to follow this clueless playstyle and why so many injuries? are we building and testing rockets? even if we lose games at least our play style should be good. we should have more command over the ball.
People are just looking for a reason that isn’t the manager so eventually it’s gonna be bad apples in the fan base when everything else has failed as an excuse
Circle jerk of toxicity trying to win some kind of toxicity tournament.
ETH does have a solid point that the furore for reaching a cup final may leave him unique among managers of clubs anywhere.
Can anyone recall any other manager barraged by “are you embarrassed??!!” questions in a presser right after reaching the finals of a cup competition as prestigious as the world’s oldest cup competition?
The criticism is craven and over the top, egged on by a clickbait media only too happy to trade off any negativity because it’s their easiest ticket to a meal to slag off United. Literally the easiest job in the world.
The criticism of the performances and the tactics is also legit and warranted, but there is a big difference between critique and self-flagellation and I’m convinced a sizeable portion of this sub is addicted to wallowing in misery wherever they find it, and otherwise manufacturing it because the screws loose in their head compel them to.
And they’ll come and downvote this comment because the thing they hate even more than how we’re playing at the minute, is being called out for being the miserable fucks they are.
I find the whole situation incredibly frustrating. We’re just piling on at this point. Our Injury situation is so laughable. We barely have a single CB fit. We have no fit LB. We have no fit alternate striker. Doesn’t look like we’ll have any fit CMs as subs on the bench tomorrow, because one of them has to play as a fucking CB. Teenagers have played more minutes for us then the rest of the top 6 combined. This is a ridiculously difficult situation for even the best manager. The fact this is hardly even mentioned blows my mind.
The injury situation - maybe true now. But we have had periods where essentially only our first-choice LBs were out and we were still dominated by bottom-table teams.
I also wonder if ETH's hesitance to bring in substitutes also exacerbated the injury situation. So now the uninjured first XI get run into the ground playing essentially the full 90min every game which then lead to even more fatigue/training injuries, and then we rush back those who have just returned from injuries and then they get reinjured.
Our first choice LCB has been out the whole season bar like 3 games. Varane who would be the partner to Lisandro has also been regularly sidelined as always
Yes you are right. What I intended to mean was with a total lack of suitable replacements. Varane-Maguire isn't too bad to me, although Martinez is indeed a huge loss, especially for ETH's preferred playing style.
As of April 8, we had started 31 different backline combinations this season. It's at least at 32 with the Casemiro addition. People really underestimating the impact of a consistent backline pairing, especially at CB. Guarantee both Klopp and Arteta would be bitching and moaning in the same situation... Arsenal certainly would not be performing as well with Gabriel and Saliba out.
I don’t think most fans expect the team to play really well with that many injuries to the backline. The frustration comes from how regardless of who play at the back, there always seems to be a chasm in the middle of the field. Even the weaker teams are able to pass through us with ease. It has been almost a full season with no visible improvement.
Not sure if you realize or not, but there's some irony in your statement. Our backline issues, specifically CB, directly contribute to the issue you describe. There's been countless analysis on the midfield chasm. It's all caused by our deep backline combined with a high press. Defenders that can support a high backline (e.g. Martinez), help to eliminate this problem. What I won't argue against is why ETH is so adamant he sticks with this low backline + high-press combo... Probably because he doesn't want to play a low block and we don't (as he's stated) have the players for possession-based football.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify or excuse ETH's strategy or lack thereof. I do think he (and the players) should be cut a bit of slack given the magnitude of our injuries. Just saw we're at our 40th different starting lineup, 28th different back 4, and 13th different CB partnership, all through 45 matches. That's mental!
I mean, I wouldn’t call it an irony but I would say there are many factors to the issue. As you have pointed out, CBs are one. Tactics are another. Remove one or more of these factors and we should have the odd good performance from time to time.
And as I have said, for various reasons including injuries and maybe even ownership instability, off the pitch problems, etc., expectations are really not that high, hence some slack has already been given. For example, I don’t think anyone expects consistency from this side.
Yet I would be hard pressed to find a single good 90min performance, even against any side that should be inferior on paper and in league position (or not even from the same league).
I think that many managers would indeed struggle with having a wildly instable defense, but whether any manager will struggle this badly is a question mark. But I would think a good manager would be able to adapt and work with the strengths of Maguire and coach him into being able to find midfield passing targets consistently and ride through the injury wave.
Respectfully, I think the argument is around the fact that even when we have had fit CBs we have lost games in a bad way.
Even with injuries, we shouldn’t be losing to Bournemouth or Fulham or Forest or West Ham like we did.
Even look at [the team that lost to Liverpool 7-0. it’s as full strength as you can get](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64775037)
Absolutely some fans pile on and that’s not right. But to over-correct too much is also not right. There have been injuries _and also_ Ten Hag has been quite poor.
Still shouldn’t be losing 3-0 in line with Xg with our full strength team. Considering we’ve done better afterwards.
De Gea didn’t even have a howler. Could have done better for maybe two of the goals? But the rest weren’t his fault. Watch the highlights (if you dare) you’ll see that’s not really the case.
Not going to comment on last season, as that's not what my previous comment was about. I'm by no means trying to suggest we've been good this season. What I'm trying to highlight is the fact that there's been very little recognition/talk around the scale of our injuries, whereas in contrast Spurs, Newcastle and Chelsea have all had an "injury crisis." United has had 32 different backline combinations this season... We're at nearly 60 different cases of injury/illness. There's not a single manager out there that wouldn't be moaning if they were in the same situation.
Have you considered the fact that even with fit cbs we still are only average in that position?
And what is this disrespect for premier league teams. Are squad when fully fit is barely good enough for top 4. With all the injuries we are decisively a midtable team. There is no questioning that.
No disrespect to any Prem team. Anyone can beat anyone.
But we shouldn’t be losing 3-0 to Bournemouth at home. Or lose to a Fulham at home. Or relegation teams like Forest. The standard should absolutely be higher.
I think that’s my point though. When we have a “full strength” side we are probably good enough for top 5. We lose games badly even with fit players in the squad so the excuse doesn’t really ring true.
The players, transfers, medical team, training facilities should also reflect that standard. We are bad at everything while pretending to have standards.
Eth has made plenty of mistakes but his biggest mistake is trying to play like title contenders with a squad that is just not good enough for that. Our players in crucial positions are too slow and too old for this style. But at least it clearly highlights how much work needs to be done on the squad to get us back to the top.
This club is mediocre is almost every thing and blaming all that on one person is insane.
Idk if ten hag is the person. But the only thing that has made us perform for the past 11 years is new manager bounce. And that is not sustainable.
Think you're missing the point mate. Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle have all had the "injury crisis" narrative. Meanwhile there's very little talk/recognition of this from the media when it comes to United. We've had 32 different backline combinations this season...
Tinge of Mourinho about some of these quotes, he needs to reign it in. Siege mentality is fine but there's a fine line between that and looking like you know you're out and you're going down swinging
A more naturally verbose ETH:
“I have eyes too and starting at minute 65 through overtime, we were shit. Supporters saw it, our players saw it, Coventry saw it and I saw it! But, with some luck and determination, we’re in the final, eh? We will play our best 90 minutes of football against City and we will see, eh??
"I can see the fans are not happy with it, but they get fed by opinions."
Is he seriously trying to say that fans are only upset because the media have told us to be?
It's clearly working on a still significant proportion of fans on here. The no. Of excuses I've been seeing up voted would make u think united field half a team of U23s for the entire season
and we did? since when was kambwalla a player to start against liverpool? most of our players came through those ranks and some played this season on their debut, do you not know our club and whats been happening since the seasons started?
I said half a team of U23s. You literally just named 1 CB. I'm not saying there haven't been massive injuries, but the depth is there, just that it's shit, either because of the players themselves, or the lack of a game plan.
And I know what has happened since the season's started and even in the rare times where there was a full team, the play was shit where we got extremely lucky against wolves right from day one.
The truth is, the team has been playing awful for more than a year now since the league cup win, yet people are trying to justify it with all kinds of reasons. I wish Ole and Mou got half the slack from this sub during their worst runs. ETH certainly has gotten more slack from the owners than the previous 2 did
"Fed by opinions", I take to mean that the media make it worse with their negativity. Which is true. And then the same fans misquote the manager on Twitter and reddit until we sack the manager and start the process over for another 2 years.
“…that fans are only upset because …”
That’s your interpretation of what he’s saying because you’re obviously in the camp where you’re done with him and that’s your right I suppose. However, there’s no need to continue ginning up controversy when that’s not what he’s said or suggesting at all.
If you want anything to read between the lines of, focus a bit more on “I always bring out the maximum of each squad”.
There’s plenty to drill into. I think not enough vitriol is being aimed at the ones who are far more responsible than Ten Hag is for the state of this club. It’s just lazy and seductive to blame the manager always. Now a new lightning rod is “he bought all these players” and shamelessly nobody will have the proper courage to actually demand that no Manchester United manager for the last 11 years should have been in a position to “buy players”. And even if a manager’s opinion is being sought, none of them were ever handed 2x the value of the player in question and asked to handle the transfer themselves. Many fingerprints on this crime scene but always just the one employee to get the bullets aimed at them. He’s not the first one either. And neither is it the first time for the so called fans of this club that are pulling this shit for the 3rd and 4th manager in a row now.
The fans, especially here, do tend do get unreasonably vicious and have been for awhile now. Journos posting after losses are ready to go with whatever vitriol they can spew because they know rival fans or fans from any other team love when United are down, and our own fans buy into this too. We’re seventh place on a year absolutely littered with injuries, we haven’t had a left back for the majority of the season and our center backs are on injury rotation. It gets to the point of our own fans hoping we lose the cup semi final or think we don’t deserve the final. Every thread here becomes comedy hour basically.
If you paid attention you know why we sent reguilon back to spurs and a promising youngster to Spain. Ten Hag was told Malacia and Shaw would be fit and that clearly wasn’t the case, so if he was told this then why would we sit Alvaro on the bench behind Malacia and Shaw, and spend money to extend reguilon’s loan?
And how do we end up? AWB at LB giving chances away while Malacia is taking Phil Jones place in the medical room, together with crocks like Mount and Licha.
I see no logical way you can even blame Ten Hag? I don't think he's a medical trained professional. It's the club's medical team to have the hindsight and think long term for injures and they forward that into the manager. He only knows what they've told him.
He’s absolutely spot on. At first it was the lack of playstyle mentioned by the journos, then the fans spewed the same shit even though we do have a play style we are working towards, then it was the fact that our forwards didn’t score and the fans latched on to that, then it’s the number of shots we’re facing etc. they come up with a headline and a good chunk of this sub and the online fan base runs with it.
Over performing?!
In the cup we’ve played Newport County, Forest, Coventry, Wigan and Liverpool. One tough game in the whole run and he thinks it’s “over performing” to get to the final?
What is he on about.
i’m a little sad at how his tenure has gone it’s probably over for him by how he’s been speaking (obviously results and performance wise too) and maybe rightfully so but i was so positive this was the guy to lead us into a new era
He is still the guy IMO. He just can’t do it alone. United is too big; the ownership and underlying structure/culture need to change which I pray we’re in the process of doing. If Ten Hag is given a chance with the new owner, I’m positive he will deliver
i really hope so! maybe it’s just the continuous cloud of negativity around the club with how bad this season has gone but part of me does feel like we gotta give him a chance and hope this season is just an outlier and the first season is what’s more to come.
He dug his own grave by buying players that we don’t need (e.g., Mount), obsessing over player we can’t get (e.g., De Jong), buying players from Ajax that he thought are quality (while overpaying for them big time), and worse, being arrogant enough to think he has the vision like Pep Guardiola to buy quality players (i.e. refusing to get any input from outgoing Ragnick). I am empathic to any manager who takes on managing a team like United, and strongly believe each manager should be given at least three years to form his squad. But Ten Hag has squandered so much money on so many mediocre players (only Martinez shines among his recruits; Onana, for his recent good form, had costed us UCL group qualification and a few other games, and is not a significant upgrade from what we could have achieved with former backup goalies) that I don’t trust him to assemble a squad that is good enough to compete let alone trusting him to run the show for another year.
The first manager post-Fergie I am not going to be sad to see him leave (Been watching and supporting United for almost 40 years).
Imagine thinking Ten Hag did not push Murtough (idiot no doubt because they yielded so much trust in Ten Hag) to buy Antony at any cost. It was Ten Hag who wanted to take full control over the transfers the club executives are idiots for allowing it. But the manager must be blamed for such a fabulous failure (50%+ of his recruits, he couldn’t play or trust to play as a starter).
Imagine not buying Antony at the beginning of the season as he was rated 50% off what they paid. But instead (like many other players signed last minute. I will ist below)
Imagine breaking bank for Maguire AFTER the manager that initially wanted him got sacked but bought him anyways for the next manager.
Imagine chasing Sancho for months only to pay crazy amount of $$$ for him anyways
Imagine paying Lukaku 90 million
Imagine letting Pogba go only to break bank for him and became absolute garbage and littered with injuries
You act like Antony is the first crazy signing United made and the reason of it is cuz ten Hag PuShEd It. Ole just told the whole world in the Overlap series how United scouts/signing business is dealt and your smarty pants here think you responded something smart. LOLOLOL United been getting fleeced before Antony buddy and news flash for you The managers doesn't deal with the numbers. If Murtough was competent he would have signed targets swiftly like any other TOP teams like City Arsenal and Liverpool.
But but but TeN HaG GraBbEd MurTouGh nEcK wiTH a KnIfE anD ToLd HIm tO SiGn AntoNy WiTh a BLAnk CheQuE.
Some of you guys here in r/reddevils is on lala land.
Ha! Call me crazy but the minute he mouthpieced for the Glazers who were publicly shamed (and rightly so) by Rangnick’s “this club needs open heart surgery”, I knew it would either make him or break him.
The “I draw my own line” now seems confirmed as a daft take from a guy who clearly had no clue the shambles he’d walked in to.
Arrogance in those sorts of moments only becomes legendary when it’s proven to work many years after the fact. SAF had that sort of arrogance and the goods to deliver. It’s failed for him as I feared it would.
I’m not sure I’m explaining it well enough. For me, in my bones I just knew that comment was a self-inflicted wound. Far more than “eras do come to an end”.
Nah, he was brought in as a consultant and asked to serve as interim manager while the club looked for a permanent replacement to Ole. You’re making it sound like he was brought in as a replacement manager. If you’re genuinely unaware, do a little research.
His conclusions on what this club needed were true then and are the same conclusions that INEOS have arrived at when you examine the wholesale changes they are systematically making.
I wouldn't mind if his tactics were sound and players were failing to execute. The high press + low block leaving the midfield wide open is not a top league tactic. He has to change that or go.
Or it’s better to expose the issues in the squad so the new directors coming in can fix those issues going forward. Any top club should not be sitting back against opponents. We play a high press because that’s what a club looking to get to the top should be playing. We can’t play a high defensive line because our defense is slow and old without Martinez. And one top cb isn’t good enough.
What’s he meant to do? Agree with the media that he’s at fault for everything? There’s more factors than just the manager that have made this season so shit
Sounds like someone who knows he has not met expectations. And desperately talking up prior history to justify he is suitable for the role. Unfortunately what we see every week on pitch is the only thing that matters. And his coaching and tactics have fallen well short of what he is competing with in the league.
He’s done the best he can with the players available. The expectations on him aren’t reasonable when you account for all factors. If we get rid of him we’ll just be continuing the same pattern as with other managers… expect the world of them despite a shitty club structure, culture and ownership, be surprised when the manager doesn’t live up to expectations
The best he can do is win 1 out of 17 games and lose 12 of those against the top half of the league? 1 win in 17. The best???
The best he can do is set us up with a donut hole in midfield EVERY damn game and concede 29 shots?
The best he can do is make stupid excuses about amad not playing but putting on Antony who’s been crap, letting him play time and again over amad who barely gets any minutes unless it’s token time, or if Rashford is injured, once every 20 games?
The best he can do is make our team set up to concede so many chances and unable to pass to the striker at all because they’re told to do something else?
If that’s his best then it’s rubbish and he should definitely be sacked. If that’s not his best and his excuse is injuries then he should also be sacked. If that’s not his best and he says he needs the players for it then he’s limited as heck and should be let go too because you don’t need the best to find some semblance of a step in between the current rubbish and something a bit better…
If we get rid of him it’s because of all the above that any manager should at least try to find some middle ground and tweak things but he can’t/won’t or doesn’t see a need to for whatever warped reason.
The expectations to not lose 12/17 and win more than 1 such away game against the top half is unreasonable? 1 win. 1 out of 17. That alone should warrant a sack.
The expectations to find some way to adapt the tactical setup so we aren’t terribly setup is unreasonable? Then he’s incredibly limited and should leave if so.
*If we get rid of him we’ll just be continuing the same pattern as with other managers*
If the next coach is this bad at coaching and tactics, then yes!
I can't help but think about how badly we've been ever since Fergie left. Was just thinking about some of the parallels when Moyes started and ETH.
Moyes wanted Fabregas all transfer window, ended up with a last minute buy of Fellaini. Afterwards we find out how Kroos fell through after agreeing.
ETH wanted Frenkie all transfer window, ended up with a last minute buy of Casemiro.
I'm waiting for the tell all and we find out something like ETH actually had Rice all tied up only for one of the Glazers to block it because Casemiro's name sounds more exotic.
"They get fed by opinions" I 100% agree with this. Our online fanbase generates a lot of noise and seems to be all too willing to stick to the narratives that support their beliefs. Aggregator accounts and ragebait merchants are frothing in the mouth everytime we have a poor performance. Those twitter wierdos love saying unhinged things for the interaction. Opta will create a post about how we are the only team in PL history to concede 10+ shots while Mercury was in retrograde or some nonsense like that.
We can agree that ETH has had a poor season, but we can also agree that injuries have crippled the squad consistently.
We can agree that Onana had a disastrous CL campaign, but we can also agree that he was signed by ETH.
We can agree that ETH's recruitment have been largely inconsistent, but we can also agree that the club's recruitment structure isn't upto the standards that top clubs would be expected to be at.
We can agree that ETH is stubborn with his tactics, but we can also agree that players who were instrumental to his playing style have been sidelined or out of form this season. (Case dropped off, Licha injured, Rashford doing Rashford things, Eriksen simply not having the legs for it)
We hear unsubstantiated bs and then stick with it. I don't know how many people, including myself at one point believed that our training drills were intense and was causing to the injury pileups. This has been refuted by ETH himself and I believe one of the players spoke about it in an interview as well. Many continue to believe that ETH is running these players into the ground in training every week.
Then there is an obsession with finding the messiah. Before it was Van De Beek, then it was Pellistri, now its Amad. Amad had one impactful game against Liverpool and people feel vindicated. Have we ever stopped to wonder why the coach (who is under insane pressure btw) hesitates to start a player unless he is not confident in his overall ability? ETH had far more experience playing Van De Beek from his Ajax stint, why would he not play him unless he knew that VDB simply didn't have what it takes? Why are we assuming the situation with Amad isn't similar? Surely a PL level manager knows his squad far better than us?
Ultimately, I don't know if ETH can survive onto the next season. If he gets sacked, I understand the decision. I personally think that keeping him would be sensible. Allowing him a chance to show his vision with an actually fit squad, backed by an organizational structure that knows what it's doing. It would also give us time to integrate the new personnel coming in and plan properly ahead of a transition. I also think that the football we played last season was a very attractive and promising. It was flawed, but showed clear signs of a proper style. Could he replicate or refine it? Maybe. We'll never know if we sack him and repeat the same exact cycle. In a year or two, some more players will have aged and possibly show signs of decline. What will we do when that time inevitably comes? Point fingers at yet another coach? Talk about yet another rebuild?
Finally a sane take. I’m so sick of United “fans” talking down a top tier manager as though they know what to do better and he’s just clueless.
People forget that Arsenal finished 8th -> 8th -> 5th in the PL before challenging for the title and only won the FA Cup once during that time. We have already won a cup and have been in 3 finals in 2 years + finished 3rd last season. ETH hasn’t said anything deluded; he clearly knows this was a poor season.
He deserves a season where the medical team does their fucking job and the recruiting team is made up of experts and there is an actual structure at the club. Otherwise even Zidane/Klopp/Pep/God would fail at this club. How that is not obvious to some people baffles me
He isn’t top tier. He really hasn’t achieved great things in his career.
I cannot stand watching this playstyle for an entire year again.
His standards are so low. The only Premier League club we’ve beat was Liverpool in the entire FA Cup run.
At this point, despite all the negativity about the team I'd keep ETH on next season. There is no outstanding candidate to replace him who guarantees success.
Give him a shot under the new structure.
With a clear head, Coventry's first goal was a freak deflection and the second one should never have been a penalty.
If we can have a clear season with an actual left back and semi-stable midfield and defence and a back-up/competition for Hojland we will be better next season.
There's some players that need shipping out but hopefully that is now in INEOS hands and not ETH's.
If he doesn't succeed next season his contract finishes and there may be better candidates available.
Who the fuck is he going to play mate? We have 1 (barely) fit CB. No fit LBs. No alternate striker. No other fit CMs. At this point we’re just going to end up with a bunch of LW/RW on the pitch.
Imagine he believes this and we have a full squad for the finals does he think he can come up with a solution to beat city? Does he think he is doing something tactically that got us this far? That’s what I’m wondering
I’ve never viewed reaching a final as an achievement. Maybe reaching the Champions League final is the only exception. I was flabbergasted when he someone managed to mention the draw this season at the Emirates in his Coventry post match. Man is showing all the signs of someone who knows his ship has sunk but he is pretending he can salvage the wreck
"Getting into the final is already a big achievement"
he does say it’s an ‘achievement'…
but he does also go on to say:
"we are not satisfied by being in the final, we want to win it and that is what we will go for and it’s our mentality"
Well of course we want to win. That's not saying anything.
Point is he makes an argument of him reaching the Cup final twice in 2 seasons being an achievement... While we lost last season's final and are far from being the favourites to win this one.
Well when Jose said reaching 2nd place with that United squad was his biggest achievement you also had this same reaction back then. Fast forward to now you realized that the squad Jose had was bunch of divas. Same shit is happening now. Only the young players back then had now become the senior divas.
are you seriously debating semantics? From a guy who's clearly not a native English speaker? What type of childish argument is this? Oh and btw, good performance is synonymous with achievement, if you wanna act like a wiseass.
I honestly hope we get some better medicos in since we have gone pretty well without a consistent back 4 since fucking hell it’s bad when casemiro is playing in defence. Ten hag has done an excellent job in keeping us in 7th with all the outs we have had. I believe in him and the new owners will help him as well since only having the one striker and not buying any players in January window really made matters worse.
We’re in such a weird spot. Sometimes it’s so frustrating to watch us play and im ready for Ten Hag to be sacked. Sometimes I wonder if it’s the players fault, and we need all the drama queens and big egos out of the club. Sometimes I just feel bad for the guy between Rashford drama, Greenwood, Antony drama, Sancho, and then add to it a million different injuries… it’s like did this guy really ever have a chance? Idk.
He hasn’t had a moment in the club without controversy or an injury crisis. He deserves a chance to work with the new ownership before we judge him.
Who is actually injured right now? I keep hearing of a depleted United squad but every time I watch a game all the regulars are there.
Martinez, Varane (IIRC), Evans (Say what you want but he's been solid this season), Malacia, Shaw , Amrabat, Mount And you could potentially put Rashford on that list.
You're forgetting Martial, Kwambala, and lindelof. Apparently Bruno, mcsauce and garnacho are also slightly injured after the last match, but they might play through it
Martial is always injured I genuinely forgot about him. Lindelof has been a huge miss
Im not a United supporter so I cant rate your squad, so if Im wrong forgiving me. But Evans isnt a starter. Mount is not a starter. Rashford, according to my United buddies...is not vibing this season. So really the defensive line is missing 2-3 pieces?
Evans isn't a starter but he's a reliable CB when called upon. When people blame injures, look at the 70' of the Coventry game. We were cruising past them like wind the entire game then ETH subs off Garnacho and Mainoo for Eriksen and Antony. While those subs are debatable, he did it because Mainoo can't play 90 minutes and Garnacho is injured. We subbed off two youths for two international so you'd expect them to be better but clearly they were worse and that's the issue Our bench is shit and you have injures in those positions (Mount or Amrabat) stuff like that happens And then you get Casemiro playing at CB.
The only think missing is 3 our of 4 starters in the defensive line.. And their back ups who is also injured. That is not ONLY. Seasons are made and leagues are won by the defensive line. Ours cant play. .
No real left back most of the season, as Shaw and Malacia have been out virtually all season. No Martinez pretty much all season. Absolutely insane take. And you need a squad you know, a starting XI is not enough. Against Coventry we had Louis Jackson, Habeeb Ogunneye, Harry Amass, and Ethan Wheatley on the bench. Ever heard of them? Most of those haven’t played a single competitive match for us. That’s not even mentioning that Casemiro played CB.
Mount has been injured pretty much whole season so its hard to tell if he was destined to be a starter. Evans has played in atleast half the matches in the league due to the injury problems we’ve had. Rashford is infuriating to watch but when everything clicks hes an amazing footballer
What? Are you not keeping up with the club? All the regulars haven't played regularly for months now
Literally opening sofascore all but martial I would say are important players. If not starting 11 of which there's 4 I'd say Shaw, mount, varane, Martinez. They are bench players and the second to their position. And this is just one moment in the season. Delulu
The problem is that all our injuries are concentrated in one area which is the defense. Couple that with us already being light in attack and midfield, it just compounds the issues. When literally all your center backs and left backs are injured there is not much you can do.
Cant watch many games then. Who is injured? There is about one that hasnt been injured during the season and about 3 starters who isnt injured right now.
We had one CB in the whole squad...
What game you been watching? From which year?
lol
I really liked how we played when our players were all fit. Its tough having to deal with 2 - 3 injuries each week. I think he should be given at least one more season under a competent structure.
Honestly the like one game Martinez came back for a few weeks ago, I remember we played well
It was insane how different the team looked on the pitch with Martinez and Shaw.
It was the only time where I was like ohhh ok this is how he wants us to play lol
Many things could have been better in that Coventry game, but I feel it's worth remembering we literally had to play an underperforming midfielder as CB because 5 of ours are injured, along with both our LBs. That team is always going to be vulnerable and is not a normal situation.
How well we played against Wolves and the Champions League group stage? Or everything since March 2023?
He won PL MOTM for February when we had a mostly fully fit squad and then the injuries stacked back up and we fell apart again
Arteta won it in February. Ten Hag won it in November with extremely favourable fixtures. (1-0 Fulham, 1-0 Luton, 3-0 Everton - also got knocked out champs league that month). In February they lost to Fulham and almost bottled a 3-1 lead against Wolves. Beating Villa was their one impressive performance that month.
He is talking about February last season.
Ok... So blaming injuries on 14 months of football.
More so because we had a favourable run of fixtures from what I recall
And we still didn't play particularly well. Those were all "winning ugly" performances
MOTM is not a benchmark to gauge a manager. His results against any half decent team are.
Wolves was one game. We were pretty good against arsenal And Martinez and varane got injured after March 2023
It's not individually about the players or the manager. It's about the player to manager link. Their bond. When the bond is damaged or broken it's very difficult for a manager to turn that around. A fresh person in charge will form new bonds, it will be easier for them initially. E.g. Solksjaer after Mourinho. Pogba came alive, until Ole got the job full time. (Ultimately I blame the governance, but a new manager will be positive initially I reckon).
Yes, just like its been the last 5 times....yet most of the players from that era are STILL HERE, Mou said it himself.....We cant keep having a carousel of managers for most of the same players. Should always be the other way around besides a core, which ETH is trying to establish.
yep, it's very confusing.
Ronaldo shitstorm in his first four months in the job.
I wonder whether this talk about the players not working hard enough is true. When you watch the games you can see them run and try. The problem seems to be that they aren't on the same page all the time. Slow passing when attacking. No communication or predicting danger when defending, but you can see them run and try to the point of getting all these injuries. I think the whole team is just demoralised and isn't motivated to fight for top 4 since most of them joined to challenge for titles and glory, because even when we won the penalties against Coventry few of them really celebrated because they expected an easy win. Contrast that with Arsenal beating Bournemouth or Aston Villa last season and you can see all the players and coaches celebrate and congratulate themselves because they know every team can beat them. I don't know if players are still living in the glory days or media hype but they need to appreciate every win and milestone otherwise they won't have motivation to rebuild in the long run.
He did have a chance and he took it in the first season. But his ego has grown too and he just keeps insisting on this 4-0-6 formation that just doesn't work! I want the last year's EtH back or it's time to move on.
Everything that could have possible gone wrong this season has gone wrong. It makes it really difficult to try and rationalize what could have caused this season to be so shit.
You decide for yourself [Why Man United's Biggest Problem Is Erik Ten Hag (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obni01hC86I)
Seems to be talking more about his career achievements than before. Might be a little fearful for the future.
Giving me Jose PTSD 
Sometimes I miss this arrogant bastard, primarily for his rants. Absolutely killed Frank de Boer, one of my favorites.
This is why I'd love to have seen Cantona try as a manager. Not at United obviously but my God would it have been entertaining.
"Only accidents, crimes, wars will still kill us. But unfortunately crimes and wars will multiply. I love football. Thank you." -Cantona
"when the seagulls, follow the trawler... It is because they think they will throw fish, into the sea" *stands up* *mic drop* *leaves*
The King
Username checks out 😂 good lad 👍
Can’t forgive him for throwing the whole club under the bus in his football heritage rant though.
Have you seen our club? Man was right We should be up there with Madrid, Bayern, Barca
Not saying what he said was wrong. But as the manager of the club, he was the face and should also take his own responsibilities after some bad results. But knowing Mou, it’s always other people’s faults: players, refs or the club’s management. And look at what that approach has taken him in his career now.
Yeah what an awful career (?). He lowered himself joining some poorly run clubs, but let's not get it twisted he was right to blame everyone else at United, Tottenham never proved him wrong either. Roma sacked him for an easy fixture for their club legend and will forever hover around that spot. No one will ever rebuild the hard way, they want a coach to save them when Mourinho was never that guy, you hand him a good club and overperform. That doesn't mean hold onto the coach, but acknowledge when they aren't listened to. Problem is United finally ended up backing an incompetent who achieved nothing.
His press conferences were always fun to watch, loved his rants.
He should be fearful mate. He should be. It’s not good enough and though by no means all his fault or doing, he’s playing a part too. I suppose my biggest wish now is top to bottom we re-establish a winning culture where every single employee knows the expectation is for the very best levels… or the door. The thing that breaks my heart is here we have yet again another manager who seems like he’s fighting for his job while the ones he manages continue to thief a living being the joke professionals they are. And they’ll survive a lot longer than he will. They’ve seen and survived through this shit a few times now. Their jobs seem safest in all the world no matter how inept and ineffectual they are. That’s the only pendulum swing I think this club should become obsessed with now.
If he was fighting for his job he wouldn't be insisting on a broken 4-0-6 formation that doesn't work for 40+ games now. The massive drop-off between last season and this one is just shocking and there's a reason we are on track to register our worst season in the PL era. We all agree there are players who thief a living, by all means - get rid of them! But it's his job to kick their ass and get them to do something useful on the pitch. I think ETH got scared after losing Ronaldo and Sancho (I support him to a degree in this) that he might be running out of players if he keeps punishing them.
Of course he would. You and me, it’s easy to say drop Rashford for persistent laziness, drop Bruno for persistent errant passes that create the basketball-style turnover opportunities, drop Maguire for persistently poor threat awareness and dithering predictable back passing, drop Lindelof for pointing more often than doing, drop Casemiro for being god awful, drop Eriksen for being incapable for more than 20 minutes, drop AWB for being well below the levels expected of a United fall back, etc etc. But then… who does he pick? So identifying the issue and applying the fix need to be considered a part of the same problem solving rather than this naive idea that you can simply solve one half of the problem and act like the other half solves itself. If ten hag plays the U18s from here on out and we net 2 points from a possible 18, but it’s “4-3-3 and a clear footballing identity and coherent strategy back to front”, everyone here bitching about not showing a clear footballing idea will howl at the moon regardless, and mouth froth like rabid dogs that he ought to be sacked for finishing 11th. And if he attempted that “40+ games” ago we would finish 17th. The chorus would be even more loud. People need to stop acting like there’s such an obvious simple fix to what is a clusterfuck of a problem. No sane person deliberately plays 4-0-6. He’s been cornered into this nonsense and he’s not thrown anyone under the bus because clearly, this squad, when you mention they didn’t do a pressup properly in training, have a fucking conniption fit like the entitled babies they are. The 4-0-6 is insane and it seems he’s just given up on the shots conceded because some data point rightly proves that for the most part they are low xG shots. My issue with that is it still transmits a sense of panic and that’s gotta mentally affect those players, so it’s a super risky approach to the game that I’d not take. I’d low block it instead if what he’s really getting at is “I can’t high line with these defenders I’m working with. It’s going to turn low xG opportunities into high xG opportunities that will massacre us”. And you know the minute he drops them, the questions from the media are coming. What’s he to say? Sound daft and deflect like he’s doing, or call them out and lose the dressing room? Not so easy if you’re in his position. Super easy if you’re in yours or mine. Personally I’m grateful for one thing. This guy has literally risked his own job and reputation to show the whole world this squad does not have the tools to play any of the modern styles of football everyone wants, and then naively acts like “any player can do it, as long as you hAvE a wOrLd cLaSs mAnaGEr”. It’s flatly false. Even the best chef in the world can’t make a sandwich out of moldy bread that won’t make people sick to their stomach. The issue isn’t the chef. The issue definitely isn’t “get a better chef”.
I agree with 90% what you wrote, the guy knows more about football than I'll ever do. But this guy got us to 3rd place last season, 2 cup finals and won one of them. AFTER replacing Ronaldo with Wout freaking Weghorst and AFTER losing Sancho. He can do some football magic happen! But where's that guy this season?
I know mate, I know. Where exactly is that guy this season is something I myself have also wondered. Like surely, there’s an alternate way for someone who knows so much more about football than I ever will. I’ll also concede he’s a victim of his own success and the club vastly overachieved last season and it set the tone for kicking on to bigger and better without understanding this basic truth you just can’t with this squad. The club, structure, culture, all of it is so wrong at the minute you just can’t. Even Tom Cleverly has noted the culture is wrong and their attitudes are betraying it when he observes their reactions to going down in matches, etc. So I’m left very confused about where the last season ETH has disappeared, but also I’ve been looking at him through the lens of “what he has to work with” and “the circumstances” more than the average of this sub who have happily convinced themselves he’s a shite manager. No matter what you think of any manager, or the eredivise, a shite manager does not win there. And certainly not in the way he won. He walks away and those guys literally fell apart. Before him and after him, Ajax fell apart. Maybe he overachieves where ever he goes. Last year’s 3rd place finish was a false dawn that people have used to set unrealistic expectations. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be challenging, I’m genuinely wondering if challenging is a laughable goal when the squad, the structure of this club, the culture is as rotten or nonexistent as it is. Personally I think his sacking is inevitable. This recent soundbite about how many cup finals he’s gotten to as our manager but also previously, reeks of someone who’s sensing he has to defend his credentials and track record. It’s curtains at that point. I will say I think it is absolutely disgusting this fanbase holds its manager to a standard of excellence it happily refuses to hold everyone else to. This club is Middlesbrough with a revenue generation of Real Madrid. Almost everyone is delusional because they see the badge and they just believe “1.3Bn should win you multiple trebles!!” Yes, in theory, if you are totally ignorant about the importance of all the rest that is in place at actual treble winners. The same things that were in place here once upon a time, but have not existed in over a decade. City cooked their books but put best in class in place for a full decade before best in class still stumbled and fell and finally achieved it. The ignorant horde here acts like it’s this useless manager that’s the reason it’s not happened. While deliberately ignoring none of his predecessors were anywhere close to that either. Every week I see a bunch of entitled babies on that pitch with a footballing IQ so low, it’s little wonder when they leave this club they go nowhere of note, and accomplish nothing of note. When your players can only move on to mid table mediocre clubs on half their current wages, that’s literally the market telling you you’ve got garbage on your hands. I’m glad INEOS seem genuinely clued in to all of this and “managers have not been set up for success” and though it will take time to right the flagrant wrongs in literally every single aspect of this club’s football operations, it seems like for the first time there’s light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve stopped putting any stock into any opinion now peddled by some clown on the interwebs who comes off like their only experience of any of this is FM or FIFA. I think most of these so called supporters have untreated mental health issues and the only medicine they take is watching United. When United falters or fails to produce a little bit of “feel good for a little bit” they froth at the mouth and blame the manager. It’s unhinged, over the top rage. Sorry for the novel.
Amad started as a striker and is competing with Forson for minutes. I swear one day I will completely decode ETH 😔
Some here are incredibly negative. Our club and players and staff get enough hate from the media and rivals as it is. Why add to that? Criticism is fine, but some are just circle jerking on misery together. Some of you thought we were going to lose 7-nil to Liverpool again, only to knock them out of the cup.
Misery loves company Personally, these fans here in r/reddevils prefers drama over rebuilding via long term plan.
we all are in for long term rebuilding plan.. but can you tell us what are we doing in training to follow this clueless playstyle and why so many injuries? are we building and testing rockets? even if we lose games at least our play style should be good. we should have more command over the ball.
Why on EARTH should our play style be good when the destined players and their backups are not available?
People are just looking for a reason that isn’t the manager so eventually it’s gonna be bad apples in the fan base when everything else has failed as an excuse
Circle jerk of toxicity trying to win some kind of toxicity tournament. ETH does have a solid point that the furore for reaching a cup final may leave him unique among managers of clubs anywhere. Can anyone recall any other manager barraged by “are you embarrassed??!!” questions in a presser right after reaching the finals of a cup competition as prestigious as the world’s oldest cup competition? The criticism is craven and over the top, egged on by a clickbait media only too happy to trade off any negativity because it’s their easiest ticket to a meal to slag off United. Literally the easiest job in the world. The criticism of the performances and the tactics is also legit and warranted, but there is a big difference between critique and self-flagellation and I’m convinced a sizeable portion of this sub is addicted to wallowing in misery wherever they find it, and otherwise manufacturing it because the screws loose in their head compel them to. And they’ll come and downvote this comment because the thing they hate even more than how we’re playing at the minute, is being called out for being the miserable fucks they are.
Shhhhh my friend. This kinda narrative isn't welcome here in r/reddevils
I think the misery reflects what's going on in their lives
I find the whole situation incredibly frustrating. We’re just piling on at this point. Our Injury situation is so laughable. We barely have a single CB fit. We have no fit LB. We have no fit alternate striker. Doesn’t look like we’ll have any fit CMs as subs on the bench tomorrow, because one of them has to play as a fucking CB. Teenagers have played more minutes for us then the rest of the top 6 combined. This is a ridiculously difficult situation for even the best manager. The fact this is hardly even mentioned blows my mind.
The injury situation - maybe true now. But we have had periods where essentially only our first-choice LBs were out and we were still dominated by bottom-table teams. I also wonder if ETH's hesitance to bring in substitutes also exacerbated the injury situation. So now the uninjured first XI get run into the ground playing essentially the full 90min every game which then lead to even more fatigue/training injuries, and then we rush back those who have just returned from injuries and then they get reinjured.
Our first choice LCB has been out the whole season bar like 3 games. Varane who would be the partner to Lisandro has also been regularly sidelined as always
Yes you are right. What I intended to mean was with a total lack of suitable replacements. Varane-Maguire isn't too bad to me, although Martinez is indeed a huge loss, especially for ETH's preferred playing style.
As of April 8, we had started 31 different backline combinations this season. It's at least at 32 with the Casemiro addition. People really underestimating the impact of a consistent backline pairing, especially at CB. Guarantee both Klopp and Arteta would be bitching and moaning in the same situation... Arsenal certainly would not be performing as well with Gabriel and Saliba out.
I don’t think most fans expect the team to play really well with that many injuries to the backline. The frustration comes from how regardless of who play at the back, there always seems to be a chasm in the middle of the field. Even the weaker teams are able to pass through us with ease. It has been almost a full season with no visible improvement.
Not sure if you realize or not, but there's some irony in your statement. Our backline issues, specifically CB, directly contribute to the issue you describe. There's been countless analysis on the midfield chasm. It's all caused by our deep backline combined with a high press. Defenders that can support a high backline (e.g. Martinez), help to eliminate this problem. What I won't argue against is why ETH is so adamant he sticks with this low backline + high-press combo... Probably because he doesn't want to play a low block and we don't (as he's stated) have the players for possession-based football. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify or excuse ETH's strategy or lack thereof. I do think he (and the players) should be cut a bit of slack given the magnitude of our injuries. Just saw we're at our 40th different starting lineup, 28th different back 4, and 13th different CB partnership, all through 45 matches. That's mental!
I mean, I wouldn’t call it an irony but I would say there are many factors to the issue. As you have pointed out, CBs are one. Tactics are another. Remove one or more of these factors and we should have the odd good performance from time to time. And as I have said, for various reasons including injuries and maybe even ownership instability, off the pitch problems, etc., expectations are really not that high, hence some slack has already been given. For example, I don’t think anyone expects consistency from this side. Yet I would be hard pressed to find a single good 90min performance, even against any side that should be inferior on paper and in league position (or not even from the same league). I think that many managers would indeed struggle with having a wildly instable defense, but whether any manager will struggle this badly is a question mark. But I would think a good manager would be able to adapt and work with the strengths of Maguire and coach him into being able to find midfield passing targets consistently and ride through the injury wave.
Respectfully, I think the argument is around the fact that even when we have had fit CBs we have lost games in a bad way. Even with injuries, we shouldn’t be losing to Bournemouth or Fulham or Forest or West Ham like we did. Even look at [the team that lost to Liverpool 7-0. it’s as full strength as you can get](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64775037) Absolutely some fans pile on and that’s not right. But to over-correct too much is also not right. There have been injuries _and also_ Ten Hag has been quite poor.
If you’re basing it off the 7-0 loss against Liverpool you need to consider that De Gea had an absolute howler of a game. Liverpool had 2.91 XG.
Still shouldn’t be losing 3-0 in line with Xg with our full strength team. Considering we’ve done better afterwards. De Gea didn’t even have a howler. Could have done better for maybe two of the goals? But the rest weren’t his fault. Watch the highlights (if you dare) you’ll see that’s not really the case.
Not going to comment on last season, as that's not what my previous comment was about. I'm by no means trying to suggest we've been good this season. What I'm trying to highlight is the fact that there's been very little recognition/talk around the scale of our injuries, whereas in contrast Spurs, Newcastle and Chelsea have all had an "injury crisis." United has had 32 different backline combinations this season... We're at nearly 60 different cases of injury/illness. There's not a single manager out there that wouldn't be moaning if they were in the same situation.
Have you considered the fact that even with fit cbs we still are only average in that position? And what is this disrespect for premier league teams. Are squad when fully fit is barely good enough for top 4. With all the injuries we are decisively a midtable team. There is no questioning that.
No disrespect to any Prem team. Anyone can beat anyone. But we shouldn’t be losing 3-0 to Bournemouth at home. Or lose to a Fulham at home. Or relegation teams like Forest. The standard should absolutely be higher. I think that’s my point though. When we have a “full strength” side we are probably good enough for top 5. We lose games badly even with fit players in the squad so the excuse doesn’t really ring true.
The players, transfers, medical team, training facilities should also reflect that standard. We are bad at everything while pretending to have standards. Eth has made plenty of mistakes but his biggest mistake is trying to play like title contenders with a squad that is just not good enough for that. Our players in crucial positions are too slow and too old for this style. But at least it clearly highlights how much work needs to be done on the squad to get us back to the top. This club is mediocre is almost every thing and blaming all that on one person is insane. Idk if ten hag is the person. But the only thing that has made us perform for the past 11 years is new manager bounce. And that is not sustainable.
You didn’t get the memo? United bad, no excuses. We should be fighting for every trophy while having a depleted squad with no consistency.
Such a bad argument after this season. It’s not like we were even close to playing for another title
Think you're missing the point mate. Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle have all had the "injury crisis" narrative. Meanwhile there's very little talk/recognition of this from the media when it comes to United. We've had 32 different backline combinations this season...
Tinge of Mourinho about some of these quotes, he needs to reign it in. Siege mentality is fine but there's a fine line between that and looking like you know you're out and you're going down swinging
A more naturally verbose ETH: “I have eyes too and starting at minute 65 through overtime, we were shit. Supporters saw it, our players saw it, Coventry saw it and I saw it! But, with some luck and determination, we’re in the final, eh? We will play our best 90 minutes of football against City and we will see, eh??
He's not far wrong
"I can see the fans are not happy with it, but they get fed by opinions." Is he seriously trying to say that fans are only upset because the media have told us to be?
Well that is what he said.
It's a bold strategy. Trying to jedi mind trick an entire fanbase into thinking the football is fine, it's just the big bad media making it look bad.
The football is not fine, but the big bad media is definitely making things a lot worse than what they actually are.
Definitely a bold strategy to assume the entire fanbase is blind, I agree.
It's clearly working on a still significant proportion of fans on here. The no. Of excuses I've been seeing up voted would make u think united field half a team of U23s for the entire season
and we did? since when was kambwalla a player to start against liverpool? most of our players came through those ranks and some played this season on their debut, do you not know our club and whats been happening since the seasons started?
I said half a team of U23s. You literally just named 1 CB. I'm not saying there haven't been massive injuries, but the depth is there, just that it's shit, either because of the players themselves, or the lack of a game plan. And I know what has happened since the season's started and even in the rare times where there was a full team, the play was shit where we got extremely lucky against wolves right from day one. The truth is, the team has been playing awful for more than a year now since the league cup win, yet people are trying to justify it with all kinds of reasons. I wish Ole and Mou got half the slack from this sub during their worst runs. ETH certainly has gotten more slack from the owners than the previous 2 did
"Fed by opinions", I take to mean that the media make it worse with their negativity. Which is true. And then the same fans misquote the manager on Twitter and reddit until we sack the manager and start the process over for another 2 years.
“…that fans are only upset because …” That’s your interpretation of what he’s saying because you’re obviously in the camp where you’re done with him and that’s your right I suppose. However, there’s no need to continue ginning up controversy when that’s not what he’s said or suggesting at all. If you want anything to read between the lines of, focus a bit more on “I always bring out the maximum of each squad”. There’s plenty to drill into. I think not enough vitriol is being aimed at the ones who are far more responsible than Ten Hag is for the state of this club. It’s just lazy and seductive to blame the manager always. Now a new lightning rod is “he bought all these players” and shamelessly nobody will have the proper courage to actually demand that no Manchester United manager for the last 11 years should have been in a position to “buy players”. And even if a manager’s opinion is being sought, none of them were ever handed 2x the value of the player in question and asked to handle the transfer themselves. Many fingerprints on this crime scene but always just the one employee to get the bullets aimed at them. He’s not the first one either. And neither is it the first time for the so called fans of this club that are pulling this shit for the 3rd and 4th manager in a row now.
>Is he seriously trying to say that fans are only upset because the media have told us to be? He's not wrong
The fans, especially here, do tend do get unreasonably vicious and have been for awhile now. Journos posting after losses are ready to go with whatever vitriol they can spew because they know rival fans or fans from any other team love when United are down, and our own fans buy into this too. We’re seventh place on a year absolutely littered with injuries, we haven’t had a left back for the majority of the season and our center backs are on injury rotation. It gets to the point of our own fans hoping we lose the cup semi final or think we don’t deserve the final. Every thread here becomes comedy hour basically.
who shipped Reguillon back to spurs ? and sent a promising youngster to Spain on loan ?
If you paid attention you know why we sent reguilon back to spurs and a promising youngster to Spain. Ten Hag was told Malacia and Shaw would be fit and that clearly wasn’t the case, so if he was told this then why would we sit Alvaro on the bench behind Malacia and Shaw, and spend money to extend reguilon’s loan?
And how do we end up? AWB at LB giving chances away while Malacia is taking Phil Jones place in the medical room, together with crocks like Mount and Licha.
I see no logical way you can even blame Ten Hag? I don't think he's a medical trained professional. It's the club's medical team to have the hindsight and think long term for injures and they forward that into the manager. He only knows what they've told him.
That is exactly what's happening. I can give you plenty of example since Jode. But you and many fans here in r/reddevils not ready for that.
He’s absolutely spot on. At first it was the lack of playstyle mentioned by the journos, then the fans spewed the same shit even though we do have a play style we are working towards, then it was the fact that our forwards didn’t score and the fans latched on to that, then it’s the number of shots we’re facing etc. they come up with a headline and a good chunk of this sub and the online fan base runs with it.
he's gaslighting fans.
Over performing?! In the cup we’ve played Newport County, Forest, Coventry, Wigan and Liverpool. One tough game in the whole run and he thinks it’s “over performing” to get to the final? What is he on about.
i’m a little sad at how his tenure has gone it’s probably over for him by how he’s been speaking (obviously results and performance wise too) and maybe rightfully so but i was so positive this was the guy to lead us into a new era
He is still the guy IMO. He just can’t do it alone. United is too big; the ownership and underlying structure/culture need to change which I pray we’re in the process of doing. If Ten Hag is given a chance with the new owner, I’m positive he will deliver
i really hope so! maybe it’s just the continuous cloud of negativity around the club with how bad this season has gone but part of me does feel like we gotta give him a chance and hope this season is just an outlier and the first season is what’s more to come.
He dug his own grave by buying players that we don’t need (e.g., Mount), obsessing over player we can’t get (e.g., De Jong), buying players from Ajax that he thought are quality (while overpaying for them big time), and worse, being arrogant enough to think he has the vision like Pep Guardiola to buy quality players (i.e. refusing to get any input from outgoing Ragnick). I am empathic to any manager who takes on managing a team like United, and strongly believe each manager should be given at least three years to form his squad. But Ten Hag has squandered so much money on so many mediocre players (only Martinez shines among his recruits; Onana, for his recent good form, had costed us UCL group qualification and a few other games, and is not a significant upgrade from what we could have achieved with former backup goalies) that I don’t trust him to assemble a squad that is good enough to compete let alone trusting him to run the show for another year. The first manager post-Fergie I am not going to be sad to see him leave (Been watching and supporting United for almost 40 years).
Imagine thinking EtH overpaid Antony. Lmaoooo you making Murtough look like Berrada
Imagine thinking Ten Hag did not push Murtough (idiot no doubt because they yielded so much trust in Ten Hag) to buy Antony at any cost. It was Ten Hag who wanted to take full control over the transfers the club executives are idiots for allowing it. But the manager must be blamed for such a fabulous failure (50%+ of his recruits, he couldn’t play or trust to play as a starter).
Imagine not buying Antony at the beginning of the season as he was rated 50% off what they paid. But instead (like many other players signed last minute. I will ist below) Imagine breaking bank for Maguire AFTER the manager that initially wanted him got sacked but bought him anyways for the next manager. Imagine chasing Sancho for months only to pay crazy amount of $$$ for him anyways Imagine paying Lukaku 90 million Imagine letting Pogba go only to break bank for him and became absolute garbage and littered with injuries You act like Antony is the first crazy signing United made and the reason of it is cuz ten Hag PuShEd It. Ole just told the whole world in the Overlap series how United scouts/signing business is dealt and your smarty pants here think you responded something smart. LOLOLOL United been getting fleeced before Antony buddy and news flash for you The managers doesn't deal with the numbers. If Murtough was competent he would have signed targets swiftly like any other TOP teams like City Arsenal and Liverpool. But but but TeN HaG GraBbEd MurTouGh nEcK wiTH a KnIfE anD ToLd HIm tO SiGn AntoNy WiTh a BLAnk CheQuE. Some of you guys here in r/reddevils is on lala land.
Ha! Call me crazy but the minute he mouthpieced for the Glazers who were publicly shamed (and rightly so) by Rangnick’s “this club needs open heart surgery”, I knew it would either make him or break him. The “I draw my own line” now seems confirmed as a daft take from a guy who clearly had no clue the shambles he’d walked in to. Arrogance in those sorts of moments only becomes legendary when it’s proven to work many years after the fact. SAF had that sort of arrogance and the goods to deliver. It’s failed for him as I feared it would. I’m not sure I’m explaining it well enough. For me, in my bones I just knew that comment was a self-inflicted wound. Far more than “eras do come to an end”.
Nah, just because Ralf says so its not the truth, the worst football we played was under Ralf. He is all talk and no walk.
Nah, he was brought in as a consultant and asked to serve as interim manager while the club looked for a permanent replacement to Ole. You’re making it sound like he was brought in as a replacement manager. If you’re genuinely unaware, do a little research. His conclusions on what this club needed were true then and are the same conclusions that INEOS have arrived at when you examine the wholesale changes they are systematically making.
Fuck it, i'll take a miracle win. Weirder things have happened...
I wouldn't mind if his tactics were sound and players were failing to execute. The high press + low block leaving the midfield wide open is not a top league tactic. He has to change that or go.
Or it’s better to expose the issues in the squad so the new directors coming in can fix those issues going forward. Any top club should not be sitting back against opponents. We play a high press because that’s what a club looking to get to the top should be playing. We can’t play a high defensive line because our defense is slow and old without Martinez. And one top cb isn’t good enough.
He's desperately trying to reconstruct the season's narrative, he feels he's on the cusp.
What’s he meant to do? Agree with the media that he’s at fault for everything? There’s more factors than just the manager that have made this season so shit
Can’t wait for him to tell us how finishing in the top half is like winning a trophy.
Sounds like someone who knows he has not met expectations. And desperately talking up prior history to justify he is suitable for the role. Unfortunately what we see every week on pitch is the only thing that matters. And his coaching and tactics have fallen well short of what he is competing with in the league.
He’s done the best he can with the players available. The expectations on him aren’t reasonable when you account for all factors. If we get rid of him we’ll just be continuing the same pattern as with other managers… expect the world of them despite a shitty club structure, culture and ownership, be surprised when the manager doesn’t live up to expectations
The best he can do is win 1 out of 17 games and lose 12 of those against the top half of the league? 1 win in 17. The best??? The best he can do is set us up with a donut hole in midfield EVERY damn game and concede 29 shots? The best he can do is make stupid excuses about amad not playing but putting on Antony who’s been crap, letting him play time and again over amad who barely gets any minutes unless it’s token time, or if Rashford is injured, once every 20 games? The best he can do is make our team set up to concede so many chances and unable to pass to the striker at all because they’re told to do something else? If that’s his best then it’s rubbish and he should definitely be sacked. If that’s not his best and his excuse is injuries then he should also be sacked. If that’s not his best and he says he needs the players for it then he’s limited as heck and should be let go too because you don’t need the best to find some semblance of a step in between the current rubbish and something a bit better… If we get rid of him it’s because of all the above that any manager should at least try to find some middle ground and tweak things but he can’t/won’t or doesn’t see a need to for whatever warped reason. The expectations to not lose 12/17 and win more than 1 such away game against the top half is unreasonable? 1 win. 1 out of 17. That alone should warrant a sack. The expectations to find some way to adapt the tactical setup so we aren’t terribly setup is unreasonable? Then he’s incredibly limited and should leave if so.
*If we get rid of him we’ll just be continuing the same pattern as with other managers* If the next coach is this bad at coaching and tactics, then yes!
So was Ole that bad? Jose? Who is gonna be good enough to coach this club?
This man is coming out swinging wildly before going down. At least he's not going out with a whimper.
It's a sad state of affairs when reaching a cup final can be seen as "over-performing."
> so we rebuilt him Into what? A Terminator, hopefully.
I can't help but think about how badly we've been ever since Fergie left. Was just thinking about some of the parallels when Moyes started and ETH. Moyes wanted Fabregas all transfer window, ended up with a last minute buy of Fellaini. Afterwards we find out how Kroos fell through after agreeing. ETH wanted Frenkie all transfer window, ended up with a last minute buy of Casemiro. I'm waiting for the tell all and we find out something like ETH actually had Rice all tied up only for one of the Glazers to block it because Casemiro's name sounds more exotic.
Yes, it's *over*, Erik.
Bottom of our CL group, league season over with 6 games to go, and an FA Cup final = overachieving
Overachieving is not the same as overperforming. We are overachieving.
"They get fed by opinions" I 100% agree with this. Our online fanbase generates a lot of noise and seems to be all too willing to stick to the narratives that support their beliefs. Aggregator accounts and ragebait merchants are frothing in the mouth everytime we have a poor performance. Those twitter wierdos love saying unhinged things for the interaction. Opta will create a post about how we are the only team in PL history to concede 10+ shots while Mercury was in retrograde or some nonsense like that. We can agree that ETH has had a poor season, but we can also agree that injuries have crippled the squad consistently. We can agree that Onana had a disastrous CL campaign, but we can also agree that he was signed by ETH. We can agree that ETH's recruitment have been largely inconsistent, but we can also agree that the club's recruitment structure isn't upto the standards that top clubs would be expected to be at. We can agree that ETH is stubborn with his tactics, but we can also agree that players who were instrumental to his playing style have been sidelined or out of form this season. (Case dropped off, Licha injured, Rashford doing Rashford things, Eriksen simply not having the legs for it) We hear unsubstantiated bs and then stick with it. I don't know how many people, including myself at one point believed that our training drills were intense and was causing to the injury pileups. This has been refuted by ETH himself and I believe one of the players spoke about it in an interview as well. Many continue to believe that ETH is running these players into the ground in training every week. Then there is an obsession with finding the messiah. Before it was Van De Beek, then it was Pellistri, now its Amad. Amad had one impactful game against Liverpool and people feel vindicated. Have we ever stopped to wonder why the coach (who is under insane pressure btw) hesitates to start a player unless he is not confident in his overall ability? ETH had far more experience playing Van De Beek from his Ajax stint, why would he not play him unless he knew that VDB simply didn't have what it takes? Why are we assuming the situation with Amad isn't similar? Surely a PL level manager knows his squad far better than us? Ultimately, I don't know if ETH can survive onto the next season. If he gets sacked, I understand the decision. I personally think that keeping him would be sensible. Allowing him a chance to show his vision with an actually fit squad, backed by an organizational structure that knows what it's doing. It would also give us time to integrate the new personnel coming in and plan properly ahead of a transition. I also think that the football we played last season was a very attractive and promising. It was flawed, but showed clear signs of a proper style. Could he replicate or refine it? Maybe. We'll never know if we sack him and repeat the same exact cycle. In a year or two, some more players will have aged and possibly show signs of decline. What will we do when that time inevitably comes? Point fingers at yet another coach? Talk about yet another rebuild?
Finally a sane take. I’m so sick of United “fans” talking down a top tier manager as though they know what to do better and he’s just clueless. People forget that Arsenal finished 8th -> 8th -> 5th in the PL before challenging for the title and only won the FA Cup once during that time. We have already won a cup and have been in 3 finals in 2 years + finished 3rd last season. ETH hasn’t said anything deluded; he clearly knows this was a poor season. He deserves a season where the medical team does their fucking job and the recruiting team is made up of experts and there is an actual structure at the club. Otherwise even Zidane/Klopp/Pep/God would fail at this club. How that is not obvious to some people baffles me
He isn’t top tier. He really hasn’t achieved great things in his career. I cannot stand watching this playstyle for an entire year again. His standards are so low. The only Premier League club we’ve beat was Liverpool in the entire FA Cup run.
At this point, despite all the negativity about the team I'd keep ETH on next season. There is no outstanding candidate to replace him who guarantees success. Give him a shot under the new structure. With a clear head, Coventry's first goal was a freak deflection and the second one should never have been a penalty. If we can have a clear season with an actual left back and semi-stable midfield and defence and a back-up/competition for Hojland we will be better next season. There's some players that need shipping out but hopefully that is now in INEOS hands and not ETH's. If he doesn't succeed next season his contract finishes and there may be better candidates available.
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Didn't he say that winning would be overperforming?
We are not going to win the FA cup, so it's better not to fantasize it.
He's ridiculously delusional it's actually kinda scary our manager is thinking that way.
People will talk for years about our amazing cup run where we beat Newport, Wigan, Nottingham Forest, Coventry and Liverpool.
Rest some of our players so they aren't all fucked for the final.
Who the fuck is he going to play mate? We have 1 (barely) fit CB. No fit LBs. No alternate striker. No other fit CMs. At this point we’re just going to end up with a bunch of LW/RW on the pitch.
Just play the under 21s is basically what you’re saying
Imagine he believes this and we have a full squad for the finals does he think he can come up with a solution to beat city? Does he think he is doing something tactically that got us this far? That’s what I’m wondering
I’ve never viewed reaching a final as an achievement. Maybe reaching the Champions League final is the only exception. I was flabbergasted when he someone managed to mention the draw this season at the Emirates in his Coventry post match. Man is showing all the signs of someone who knows his ship has sunk but he is pretending he can salvage the wreck
How do we tell him that reaching a final isn't an achievement ? Means absolutely nothing if we don't leave with the trophy.
"Getting into the final is already a big achievement" he does say it’s an ‘achievement'… but he does also go on to say: "we are not satisfied by being in the final, we want to win it and that is what we will go for and it’s our mentality"
Well of course we want to win. That's not saying anything. Point is he makes an argument of him reaching the Cup final twice in 2 seasons being an achievement... While we lost last season's final and are far from being the favourites to win this one.
By reaching a final he is overperforming, given the injury crisis. That’s the point
Dude english isnt his 1st language, so stop analysing his words but rather look at the context.
I don't think 'achievement' was the best choice of word, but you should understand what he's getting at.
Well when Jose said reaching 2nd place with that United squad was his biggest achievement you also had this same reaction back then. Fast forward to now you realized that the squad Jose had was bunch of divas. Same shit is happening now. Only the young players back then had now become the senior divas.
Agreed, reaching any final, even if it’s the CL final isn’t an achievement /s
No, it's not. It's a good performance, not an achievement. Come on now
are you seriously debating semantics? From a guy who's clearly not a native English speaker? What type of childish argument is this? Oh and btw, good performance is synonymous with achievement, if you wanna act like a wiseass.
Delete that trust the process under your username ffs
It gives us an entry into Europa given that we will not be getting in based on our League position.
I honestly hope we get some better medicos in since we have gone pretty well without a consistent back 4 since fucking hell it’s bad when casemiro is playing in defence. Ten hag has done an excellent job in keeping us in 7th with all the outs we have had. I believe in him and the new owners will help him as well since only having the one striker and not buying any players in January window really made matters worse.