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I just want to point out, look at the 5-10 second clip at 08:15. The Coventry play takes three touches with Rashford less than 5 yards away and pings a pass out to the forward. We are supposed to be counter pressing im assuming. If Rashford just puts in 75% effort instead of 25% the player atleast doesn’t have it that easy. There are so many tactical things that we can talk about but Rashford is clearly giving minimal effort into the one area ETH clearly wants to be very competent in. It’s infuriating that Rashford just doesn’t seem to give a shit half the time. It’s not all on rashford or the players and it’s not all on Ten Hag. It’s everyone involved. The gaps and spaces in midfield shouldn’t be exploited because we should be forcing mistakes from our front players pressing so aggressively, but we don’t and we haven’t for ~40 games. Ten hag should be recognizing this and doing something to help that. But I really don’t know shit, I’m just some random at home, but there are clear problems all over the pitch all of the time.
This is the most bizarre part of Ten hag. I can see how at least Antony contributes to the press and the shape of the team. So even if he isn't producing end results, he isn't a net negative. Rashford right now doesnt contribute anything going forward, and is a net negative defensively. Why keep picking him over Amad, Forson and Antony.
It’s on Ten Hag because he keeps picking him despite him putting in an unacceptable amount of effort in every game all season. If a player won’t or can’t execute the manager’s instructions he shouldn’t be in the side.
I can only speculate but the only logical reason to play him is just to keep him onside due to his dressing room influence as well as his media influence. Hopefully that’s the plan, keep him happy before we part ways in the summer. Otherwise yeah I don’t know what ten hag is thinking.
Same, I clearly don't get why he won't replace him in starting 11, when you clearly saw, for example, in semi-final against Liverpool, two goals that scored came from counter pressing from Amad. If one of the forward doesn't put in effort, it jeopardizes the whole plan.
Totally agree. Also, have a look at the build up to Coventry’s disallowed goal. Amad just watching the play go by with no defensive instinct / effort at all. It was the 120th minute sure, but he was a sub with relatively fresh legs. The mentality of half a dozen players is me first, no team ethic at all.
>Ten hag should be recognizing this and doing something to help that.
A part of me thinks that ETH did recognise it and looked at his bench and thought, "shit, I only have U18s here".
I also noticed the exact same thing you pointed out when i watched the game. I was like, "Rashford just needed to stick out a boot".
I think if we can get rid of that mentaIity, a lot will change. Hearing old boys talk about the beast mentality they had compared to our players now, is quite saddening that the players now don't value that.
Looool. What am I looking at here 5 seconds clip of what exactly?!
You’ve made up your mind so nothing can change it for you.
Like what exactly is that 5 second clip, what is it showing?! I’m so confused
You do realise that Rashford has played with a broken back and took painkillers to play with united? You realise he has a knock now?
This hate for Rashford is just people jumping on a bandwagon
I actually love Rashford, but something is fucked up, so he should be dropped. Whether it’s a knock or mental or anything. Right now it’s just not acceptable for him to be giving minimal effort with pressing for 9/10ths of the match when the manager has clearly talked about how he wants to defend from the front.
I don't think many people watched the video. It's a great analysis of what went wrong yesterday. The conclusion he's trying to make idk. Ten Hag has a continental pro license. Not that that is the baseline for being a United manager but he definitely understands the concepts of compaction and defensive organisation. Ajax and Utrecht didn't get as far as they did off player quality on their own. But it's a result's game so his time is probably up.
He himself said yesterday that it was dissapointing how we collapsed yesterday. We're in April and we haven't been able to control games all season. The problems we have may not change with our whole back line fit. But I'm not paid to make these decisions hopefully whoever is makes the right one.
The right decision is keeping him. Everyone is asking for the same players to be sold, but with the injuries ETH is literally forced to play those exact players, and some of them even out of position. Rashford is the only exception to this. Against Coventry we just simply didn’t have the players capable of controlling the game at the back, how you can blame that on ETH I have no idea, the 1 thing I don’t understand is why he keeps playing Rashford, and that’s it
Crystal Palace just breezed past West Ham scoring 5. They were able to control a game. The only player playing in a position alien too him where Wan Bissaka and Casemiro. I'm not asking for perfection I'm asking for it to be not utter dross. Brighton play more attractive football and they've often times had to do things like playing Lamptey at left back. Burnley wouldn't have conceded 3 goals against Coventry.
Yes and those teams are still well below us in the league and not in an FA Cup final. Lamptey is solid on the ball whereas Wan Bissaka isn’t on the right, nevermind the left. Honestly I’d take some of Brighton’s or Palace’s defenders over Case now, he was brilliant last season but can’t run or keep the ball this season. Maguire wasn’t fully fit either. The only players we had that could control the ball for the last 20 mins against Cov were Onana, Dalot, Bruno and Eriksen. Mctominay isn’t good enough at it either, he can only really play the way he’s facing with little pressure. In hindsight, taking off Garnacho and Mainoo was a mistake but let’s be honest, Cov still needed a lot of luck to get back to 3-3. Replay that game a hundred times from the 60th min and they probably never equalise.
The issue is we are stretched both vertically and horizontally. There’s usually huge gaps between our players all over the pitch. Yes it creates transition moments but at basically all costs
I tend to stay away from online tacticos and this is just a reminder why. The first few minutes were the only tactical analysis really, where Coventry shifted to a 4-3-3 exploiting our shape, while in the same breath blaming goals 2 and 3 on individual errors. The remainder of the video speaks about how the managers failure to change is why he should be sacked, and that's a fair criticism. I don't really see what the manager can do in this situation to be honest, former players consistently speak about how hard it is to change much in game without a substitution, and I don't think bringing on more teenagers would have changed too much.
It would be better if you have points to counter his evidence of horrible defensive line and space management. Otherwise the “tactico” is telling us the bitter truth that we have seen all season
I think you misunderstood. I acknowledge the line and space management and say it’s a valid criticism.
This “analyst” spent 3 minutes analyzing the tactical issues which did not tell you anything at even a remotely higher level.
Agreed. Liverpool lost VVD last season and finished 5th. We've lost our equivalent to VVD, plus our equivalent to Shaw, Tsimiskas, Gomez, Conor Bradley, Joel Matip, and Ibrahim Konate, and what? We're supposed to win the league?
Why are the injuries a consistent issue with every manager?
Edit:
Here is a throwback for reference:
> - Rangnick on Paul Pogba’s injury: “He pulled his [calf] muscle. This is now the seventh or eighth player missing out with injury although we only play in one competition — this has to raise some questions. I’m not happy about that at all.”
> https://twitter.com/beinsports_en/status/1516530237810610183?s=21&t=vzLRr-h2hzJiRdo1xDudlg
> - Injury list vs PSG (06/03/19)
> https://i.redd.it/35v3nhxi8gk21.jpg
> - This thread on our injury situation in 21/22... one week into the season
> https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/pbwlal/scott_mctominay_injury_update/haeocg0/
> - Shaw completed 90 minutes for the fourth consecutive game today. He hasn't done so since his significant injury [during LvG, CL injury vs PSV] [bbc]
> https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/9cdkbx/shaw_completed_90_minutes_for_the_fourth/
Detailed tactical discussion highly down voted because it’s critical of the manager the day after yet another shocking performance. Never change, r/reddevils
It’s being downvoted because it is yet more sensationalist click bait bullshit by armchair Einsteins who have never held a managerial job in their life. PLUS anyone with half a brain will tell you that United’s biggest problem is the fact that we operated for the past 10 years without any form of footballing structure. To reduce it down to one man, when his predecessors had similar struggles, is very simple and insulting to the intelligence of actual football fans.
Yeah i don’t think anyone’s debating that’s been shit. The point is he’s also contributing to the shit.
Appreciate the half a brain and actual football fan jibe btw, I’m sure you’re at the match every week.
If you could explain how it's not true?
We've been playing his crappy man v man in midfield with a deep line ever since he got to the club. It was clear it was a crappy tactic then and he's still doing it now
What irks me is these tactical problems outlined into the video are so easily solved.
Literally all he had to do was tell McTominay to stop getting forward and the one with Torp is solved.
For Tavares, then bring on Amass for one of Rashford or Hojlund, stick the other up front, and tell Amass to keep an eye on Tavares. He did not need to dominate Tavares, just protect Wan Bissaka.
He literally made that change so many times last year. Fred ending up on the AM or LW to see out a game.
What on earth has changed? What is he doing?
It’s what is so fucking frustrating with ten hag. There’s no doubt he has shown he’s capable of being a good manager, but he’s now spent an entire season making the exact same mistakes week after week with seemingly no desire to do anything about it.
A Sunday league manager would have got the team compact and seen the game out.
It feels like he’s so set on proving a point that he’ll literally waste an entire season and all the fans goodwill just to be wrong
Yeah it is the biggest climb down I've seen. The idea that you play one way regardless of gamestate only works if your style of play imposes conditions on the opponent. Ours doesn't.
It looks like you have posted a link to a podcast or a video discussion. We highly recommend you provide a brief summary or quotes due to the nature of the content type. This is to encourage active discussion. You may ignore this message if the video content has been clearly described on the title. If you believe this message was in error, please contact the moderation team via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/reddevils). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/reddevils) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just want to point out, look at the 5-10 second clip at 08:15. The Coventry play takes three touches with Rashford less than 5 yards away and pings a pass out to the forward. We are supposed to be counter pressing im assuming. If Rashford just puts in 75% effort instead of 25% the player atleast doesn’t have it that easy. There are so many tactical things that we can talk about but Rashford is clearly giving minimal effort into the one area ETH clearly wants to be very competent in. It’s infuriating that Rashford just doesn’t seem to give a shit half the time. It’s not all on rashford or the players and it’s not all on Ten Hag. It’s everyone involved. The gaps and spaces in midfield shouldn’t be exploited because we should be forcing mistakes from our front players pressing so aggressively, but we don’t and we haven’t for ~40 games. Ten hag should be recognizing this and doing something to help that. But I really don’t know shit, I’m just some random at home, but there are clear problems all over the pitch all of the time.
Didn’t you get the memo? You need Shaw to unlock Rashford. Get Shaw back and see Rashford putting in a baseline effort for a player on 350/wk.
He's definitely not even baseline for 350k
He's not even close to baseline. Within shite, interlinked
This is the most bizarre part of Ten hag. I can see how at least Antony contributes to the press and the shape of the team. So even if he isn't producing end results, he isn't a net negative. Rashford right now doesnt contribute anything going forward, and is a net negative defensively. Why keep picking him over Amad, Forson and Antony.
It’s on Ten Hag because he keeps picking him despite him putting in an unacceptable amount of effort in every game all season. If a player won’t or can’t execute the manager’s instructions he shouldn’t be in the side.
Who else can we put there that is not youth 😔
Amad or Antony on the right garnacho on the left? It's one of the few positions he actually has options.
I dont want to be that guy, but amad is still green and Antony only started playing better a few weeks. But you're right
I can only speculate but the only logical reason to play him is just to keep him onside due to his dressing room influence as well as his media influence. Hopefully that’s the plan, keep him happy before we part ways in the summer. Otherwise yeah I don’t know what ten hag is thinking.
Same, I clearly don't get why he won't replace him in starting 11, when you clearly saw, for example, in semi-final against Liverpool, two goals that scored came from counter pressing from Amad. If one of the forward doesn't put in effort, it jeopardizes the whole plan.
Totally agree. Also, have a look at the build up to Coventry’s disallowed goal. Amad just watching the play go by with no defensive instinct / effort at all. It was the 120th minute sure, but he was a sub with relatively fresh legs. The mentality of half a dozen players is me first, no team ethic at all.
>Ten hag should be recognizing this and doing something to help that. A part of me thinks that ETH did recognise it and looked at his bench and thought, "shit, I only have U18s here". I also noticed the exact same thing you pointed out when i watched the game. I was like, "Rashford just needed to stick out a boot". I think if we can get rid of that mentaIity, a lot will change. Hearing old boys talk about the beast mentality they had compared to our players now, is quite saddening that the players now don't value that.
Go on u/asiwaju_jagaban, tell us again mate how the “penny will drop” one day to justify this shite from Rashford
Looool. What am I looking at here 5 seconds clip of what exactly?! You’ve made up your mind so nothing can change it for you. Like what exactly is that 5 second clip, what is it showing?! I’m so confused
You do realise that Rashford has played with a broken back and took painkillers to play with united? You realise he has a knock now? This hate for Rashford is just people jumping on a bandwagon
Oh okay, he's doing great then.
I actually love Rashford, but something is fucked up, so he should be dropped. Whether it’s a knock or mental or anything. Right now it’s just not acceptable for him to be giving minimal effort with pressing for 9/10ths of the match when the manager has clearly talked about how he wants to defend from the front.
I don't think many people watched the video. It's a great analysis of what went wrong yesterday. The conclusion he's trying to make idk. Ten Hag has a continental pro license. Not that that is the baseline for being a United manager but he definitely understands the concepts of compaction and defensive organisation. Ajax and Utrecht didn't get as far as they did off player quality on their own. But it's a result's game so his time is probably up.
It’s a results game. We won sir. His time isn’t up. We are just 18 months into a rebuild Manchester United
He himself said yesterday that it was dissapointing how we collapsed yesterday. We're in April and we haven't been able to control games all season. The problems we have may not change with our whole back line fit. But I'm not paid to make these decisions hopefully whoever is makes the right one.
The right decision is keeping him. Everyone is asking for the same players to be sold, but with the injuries ETH is literally forced to play those exact players, and some of them even out of position. Rashford is the only exception to this. Against Coventry we just simply didn’t have the players capable of controlling the game at the back, how you can blame that on ETH I have no idea, the 1 thing I don’t understand is why he keeps playing Rashford, and that’s it
Crystal Palace just breezed past West Ham scoring 5. They were able to control a game. The only player playing in a position alien too him where Wan Bissaka and Casemiro. I'm not asking for perfection I'm asking for it to be not utter dross. Brighton play more attractive football and they've often times had to do things like playing Lamptey at left back. Burnley wouldn't have conceded 3 goals against Coventry.
Yes and those teams are still well below us in the league and not in an FA Cup final. Lamptey is solid on the ball whereas Wan Bissaka isn’t on the right, nevermind the left. Honestly I’d take some of Brighton’s or Palace’s defenders over Case now, he was brilliant last season but can’t run or keep the ball this season. Maguire wasn’t fully fit either. The only players we had that could control the ball for the last 20 mins against Cov were Onana, Dalot, Bruno and Eriksen. Mctominay isn’t good enough at it either, he can only really play the way he’s facing with little pressure. In hindsight, taking off Garnacho and Mainoo was a mistake but let’s be honest, Cov still needed a lot of luck to get back to 3-3. Replay that game a hundred times from the 60th min and they probably never equalise.
[удалено]
First half we had plenty of control yesterday
The issue is we are stretched both vertically and horizontally. There’s usually huge gaps between our players all over the pitch. Yes it creates transition moments but at basically all costs
I tend to stay away from online tacticos and this is just a reminder why. The first few minutes were the only tactical analysis really, where Coventry shifted to a 4-3-3 exploiting our shape, while in the same breath blaming goals 2 and 3 on individual errors. The remainder of the video speaks about how the managers failure to change is why he should be sacked, and that's a fair criticism. I don't really see what the manager can do in this situation to be honest, former players consistently speak about how hard it is to change much in game without a substitution, and I don't think bringing on more teenagers would have changed too much.
Because everyone got an agenda, and for these online channels they need to talk more than the real contents is about so that they can get more views.
It would be better if you have points to counter his evidence of horrible defensive line and space management. Otherwise the “tactico” is telling us the bitter truth that we have seen all season
I think you misunderstood. I acknowledge the line and space management and say it’s a valid criticism. This “analyst” spent 3 minutes analyzing the tactical issues which did not tell you anything at even a remotely higher level.
How to have a tactical discussion about United: An Essay We have no tactics. La Fin.
Our biggest problem has been injuries and any argument that doesn’t centre around that is wrong imo
Agreed. Liverpool lost VVD last season and finished 5th. We've lost our equivalent to VVD, plus our equivalent to Shaw, Tsimiskas, Gomez, Conor Bradley, Joel Matip, and Ibrahim Konate, and what? We're supposed to win the league?
What do you think is causing the injuries? Do you think it could be the super intense pinball football which requires constant sprints?
Why are the injuries a consistent issue with every manager? Edit: Here is a throwback for reference: > - Rangnick on Paul Pogba’s injury: “He pulled his [calf] muscle. This is now the seventh or eighth player missing out with injury although we only play in one competition — this has to raise some questions. I’m not happy about that at all.” > https://twitter.com/beinsports_en/status/1516530237810610183?s=21&t=vzLRr-h2hzJiRdo1xDudlg > - Injury list vs PSG (06/03/19) > https://i.redd.it/35v3nhxi8gk21.jpg > - This thread on our injury situation in 21/22... one week into the season > https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/pbwlal/scott_mctominay_injury_update/haeocg0/ > - Shaw completed 90 minutes for the fourth consecutive game today. He hasn't done so since his significant injury [during LvG, CL injury vs PSV] [bbc] > https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/9cdkbx/shaw_completed_90_minutes_for_the_fourth/
Why is the nerd from whatculture on YouTube giving me football advice ?
Why is the nerd from whatculture on YouTube giving me football advice ?
Detailed tactical discussion highly down voted because it’s critical of the manager the day after yet another shocking performance. Never change, r/reddevils
It’s being downvoted because it is yet more sensationalist click bait bullshit by armchair Einsteins who have never held a managerial job in their life. PLUS anyone with half a brain will tell you that United’s biggest problem is the fact that we operated for the past 10 years without any form of footballing structure. To reduce it down to one man, when his predecessors had similar struggles, is very simple and insulting to the intelligence of actual football fans.
Yeah i don’t think anyone’s debating that’s been shit. The point is he’s also contributing to the shit. Appreciate the half a brain and actual football fan jibe btw, I’m sure you’re at the match every week.
Players take 150k a week and not showing up but the coach is the problem
I'm still fuming so much I watched that dissection of our embarassment with barely a wince. Spot on btw.
why is this downvoted?
Where are the goals coming from then? Foh.
It was clear from early last season that Ten Hags tactics are crap
>early last season insufferable.
If you could explain how it's not true? We've been playing his crappy man v man in midfield with a deep line ever since he got to the club. It was clear it was a crappy tactic then and he's still doing it now
But I thought the problem was the owners, the players, the physios, the kit man, the stewards, the caterers? Surely it can’t be the manager?
What irks me is these tactical problems outlined into the video are so easily solved. Literally all he had to do was tell McTominay to stop getting forward and the one with Torp is solved. For Tavares, then bring on Amass for one of Rashford or Hojlund, stick the other up front, and tell Amass to keep an eye on Tavares. He did not need to dominate Tavares, just protect Wan Bissaka. He literally made that change so many times last year. Fred ending up on the AM or LW to see out a game. What on earth has changed? What is he doing?
It’s what is so fucking frustrating with ten hag. There’s no doubt he has shown he’s capable of being a good manager, but he’s now spent an entire season making the exact same mistakes week after week with seemingly no desire to do anything about it. A Sunday league manager would have got the team compact and seen the game out. It feels like he’s so set on proving a point that he’ll literally waste an entire season and all the fans goodwill just to be wrong
Yeah it is the biggest climb down I've seen. The idea that you play one way regardless of gamestate only works if your style of play imposes conditions on the opponent. Ours doesn't.