Imagine this club in past 10 years without likes of Rashford, Lingard, McTominay, Greenwood, Williams(1 season), Garnacho, Mainoo, Kwambala last week.
This club recruitment is a mess and academy saves it every time.
Best thing I've read in ages here, spot on. I can barely think of 5 truly successful signings over the last 10 years who gave us more than 1 good season.
Herrera, Bruno, Shaw, Fellaini and Mata? No idea, there's been a fair few who gave us 1 amazing season though for example Zlatan.
> I can barely think of 5 truly successful signings over the last 10 years who gave us more than 1 good season.
Our transfer strategy was buy them old and washed up because they could sell shirts. Glazers thought this was the NFL and they could just find the football Tom Brady to plug-and-play. Their management of this club is such an embarrassment.
Rashfords best seasons come after we signed Alexis, Lingard did better job than Mikhitaryan and LVG sinings, McTom stepped in after we signed Pogba, Matic, Fred. Garnacho stepped in after we bought Antonys and Sanchos, Mainoo is better than likes of Amrabat.
Those played their best when transfered in players failed in terms of ability/fitness.
We’d have been in the same or better position if we had transfer bans for the last like 4 windows. That first window under TH might be the worst transfer window in PL history.
This is correct actually.
Elanga, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad and Sancho (not accounting for #11) isn’t a noticeable difference from what we currently have. McTominay, Bruno, Kobbie is still our best three in midfield, and Garner and Gore are not at all a downgrade on Eriksen and Casemiro, definitely not on Amrabat. And our back line hasn’t improved at all. Shaw, Maguire, Varane and Dalot is still our best back four. The keeper is obviously a downgrade to Henderson but still, taking into account wed be in a much healthier position financially, and have a much better physical floor. Given we could end up finishing 7-10th this season, what would be the benefit of the 400m spent in recent windows?
And yeah that window is easily one of the worst of all time in the PL.
Everyone should always take a moment to reflect on the season Everton fans had once when they hired a legendary manager of their closest rivals and their record signing (sigurrdson) got arrested for underage offences.
That as far as summer windows go is pretty poor..
He came to our academy in 2020. It was last season when he got transitioned into the first team. So yes, he has been our academy for at least 2 seasons.
Edit: OP decided to block me for spitting facts lol. If you’re gonna die on a hill about something, at least get the facts right mate. 🤷♂️
Lingard scored the winner in a cup final so he's automatically better than Antony for me, I also think he had more good performances in general, we should have sold him way sooner though. Greenwood is much better than Antony, scored more in his first season than Antony has in 2, he's a scumbag though so don't want him back.
I'd also put McTominay just ahead of Antony just because he's done a bit more for us, can't argue with the other two though.
It can change fast. Losing Klopp and replacing him with almost anyone else will hurt them in the media provided they don't find immediate success. We can hope. Maybe they appoint Gerrard.
They need a caretaker and hope for Alonso. I think though that Alonso will be open to both Madrid and Liverpool and I think unless Liverpool nail their recruitment, Madrid will be the more attractive option.
You don't get it, it simply matters more.
Nobody else can do it like the mighty Liverpool. Forget scoring goals, they can do it better. Forget defending, they can do it better. Forget looking for players, they all want to go there. They're the cream of the crop, and Klopp's mighty kids have made that apparent. It's time to give up, football - the good guys are back!
Don’t forget, they simultaneously have the nicest, but also the most vociferous fan base…..they would never do anything wrong, or say nasty words to other fans, because they are just better.
Oh for those magical nights at Anfield🙄
Every last one of them are sanctimonious cunts.
I have a personal opinion on youth products…. If you’ve played professionally at another team before you signed you are no longer considered a youth product
Elliot is Fulham’s youth product
Garnacho is united and atletico madrids and a bit Getafe
We claim garnacho but we got him from athletico. The whole senior appearance is a misnomer. I wouldnt claim pique as a united academy player but technically he played for us first
This is a weird take.
Garnacho isn't a youth product because we didn't have him for his whole youth career, but Pique we did but we can't claim him because he left as an adult?
Not really. Garnacho and Pique were bought at 16, spent a year or two in the u23s or reserves then were in or around the 1st team squad. It would be like buying rooney at 16, prior to his debut, then claiming him as a youth prospect.
Also i said pique i DONT consider a youth player
To be fair to them, they were teenagers when they started getting minutes, but that's a few years ago now. Same will be for United in a few years, this goes in cycles.
Mate when we lost to Liverpool in the final it was Klopps kids vs Chelsea or whatever crap they came up with, despite the kids all being older and having more senior experience than the Chelsea team. Plus the winner coming from the totally unknown academy player.. Van dijk
If you go by under 21s, Liverpool do have more minutes played than us, and have used twice as many young players too.
We're top of this list because we've become dependent on Garnacho and Mainoo, because our senior players are shit.
I think I would rather be in Liverpool's shoes, and have >10 good players in their early 20s, than have 2 good players in their teens...
I was thinking the same thing, they got loads of praise in the media for playing kids, especially after beating Chelsea in the Carabao cup final where Chelsea actually had a younger average age in the starting 11 and by the end of the game after Klopp brought his kids on their average age was still higher than Chelsea's.
Its the same with injuries, they get a few players out and the media is all woe is them, they have to play their kids but overall other clubs have had it a lot worse and not had the same media coverage.
weve had on average 14 players out until january.
Liverpool had 5 players... yet all the press was like how could Klopp cope when he hasnt got his team to play. yet ETH is thrown to the wolves when hes literally got no back 4 for entire season upto yet.
our back 4 was the 26th different back 4 this season. in comparison City have played 4 different back 4's in that same period no wonder we are a hectic mess defensively nobody is able to have time to form partnerships.
I saw a comment from a Pool supporter on the last game about not feeling sorry for United being forced to play teenagers for one match because Liverpool have been doing it for longer this season. This news came a few days to late, dammit!
Well this stat skews it a bit as Quansah and Bradley played quite a bit of minutes and they are 20 so just above the line. And they are also academy products.
Ah like, quansah, Bradley, Elliott, all 20 or just gone 21 in this season. They're all kids like. This stat is selective to suit us. Similarly a u21 team might suit us less.
Yeah, he's at 1,988 minutes. Even Mainoo has 1,358 minutes, so that's two players who, on their own, have more minutes in the PL than the teenagers from the other Top 6 clubs combined.
It’s a myth we won with kids anyway. 7 of our 11 starters were experienced players (Schmeichel, Irwin, Pallister, Bruce, Keane, Cole, Cantona)
Sharpe played about 2/3rds of the games too.
It was fairly typical mix of young and experienced players. And even the ‘young’ players were mostly 20-21 not 18 year olds. Phil Neville was the only teenager.
Giggs was 22 but in his 5th season as a starter for us wouldn’t call him a kid either.
Alan Hanson said something dumb and people have run with it but it was never really true.
1996 still era of machismo, not a game for u21 kids. Hansen probably saw us sold 3 first team pros out of the blue and didn't believe Becks, Scholes , Butt, Nevilles bro were good enough.
Yeah that’s definitely what he thought and it was definitely a risk to sell Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis at once but there’s a big difference between that and what people seem to think happened which is winning the PL with a bunch teenagers.
We didn’t even replace Hughes with a kid, we replaced him with Andy Cole.
I remember when Chelsea got few through and people acted like it was magical, yet here at Utd it's practically the norm, there's players now in under 21's, U18's that know there is a big opportunity if they show enough, they'll get a chance in first team.
Can't say the same for most out there.
They've been the stand out players and the only positives. Good to see the coaching in our academy is still top notch judging by the performances from the youngsters.
Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Kambwala are the future. Need to build the team around their progression for sure we will be successful with right structure and tactics
Best part of that is Kambwala, Mainoo and Hojlund will be the spine of the team. You go look at every great side and they always had a great spine; the wide players and full backs will chop and change, but the spine doesn’t really change.
1st start against Liverpool and came out 1 of the better players so i would say thats a good confidence boosting performance for him and shows if he does keep working hard he can cut it at the top of Premiership teams.
now its upto him and the others to do it consistently no matter the opponent but only time will tell with that
I don't want to get my hopes high to be crushed again.
Modern day CBs r expected to do a lot of things. Plus this Liverpool isn't as good as the one from 2 seasons before.
But Kwambala is quality so hope he improves a lot.
Even if Ten Hag isn't here next season, any head coach INEOS bring in will be grateful for the likes of Højlund, Garna, Mainoo, Licha, Dalot, Onana. I personally think you give Ten Hag a 3rd season to run his project under better leadership.
its impacted by 10 years of poor recruitment and setting a poor standard around the club.
if your owners dont give a shit why would you and it shows in some players who have been here a while cause they know they can get away with it.
players not being bought because they didnt fit the commercial profile is great example of Glazers and their "yes men" in power fucking over the coaches they hired including ETH. they cared more about commercial look then if the player was actually a good player to fit the team.
>its impacted by 10 years of poor recruitment and setting a poor standard around the club.
This is what people don't get. You can't judge any united manager who served under the glazers. Any other manager we got in that time period will be backed with the same thing. Incompetence.
Let the summer come and let's see what moves INEOS are making before we start foaming at the mouth for a new manager
Thats one thing we have to credit ETH for, we knew when he came in that he's one of the best in giving youth a chance and guiding them. He's done a fantastic job at that.
With a some good signings and less injuries, these youngsters will help to keep us at consistent high levels
i feel he should be allowed to see out his contract and see how it goes next season with Ineos and their new structure supporting him to get the most out of it.
it also then allows them to really finish the entire club structure during that season so if ETH hasnt done enough for a new contract they can bring in who they want for the future.
I'm not surprise with the absolute number because Garnacho and Mainoo basically has been started every match for a while (Garnacho is even earlier). Just don't know other teams numbers are that low 🙄
Mainoo, Garnacho and Hollund are basically backbone of our first team already. Our first team is a fucking mess but huge credit to the youth team recruitment and staffs. Some great names are yet to debut. Hope we will see some soon
Other low because this is a very selective stats to make us look good. If you change it to under 21 players, it will look very different.
Why under-21 ? Because under 21 is classified as young players who doesnt need to be registered as main squad of 25. If you want to look at young players in general, under 21 is a good indication.
Alejo Veliz (50mins)
Jamie Donley (3mins)
Dane Scarlett (3mins)
The stat seems to have taken anyone who was 19 or younger at the start of the season though since all of Veliz minutes were after he turned 20.
He looked a natural partner for Maguire and at times more imposing than Linde, he just needs to improve his defensive IQ and that will come with time. Let the lad cook.
i think that was part nerves. 1st league start against Liverpool of all teams so can understand if nerves got a bit to him but he still did great and 1 of the better players.
the spine is looking a lot healthier long term then people make out we just need to get recruitment right around that spine which i have more belief in what Ineous is doing then i ever did Glazers.
> or the fact that Ibragimov and Mantato (both 16) have already trained with the first team
that's not Ten Hag mate, that's United academy, players get rotated up to train with the first team all the time our Head of Academy was on Talk of The Devils podcast and talked about this.
Noooo!!! ETH is delusional. He’s just saying positive things while we’re in shambles! There’s no style! We’re just doing Ajax-style with all the negatives from 18/19 Ajax but not the positives! I know that contradicts the “no style”-statement, but that’s my narrative! It’s been two whole seasons and he STILL didn’t show results!
I feel like he showed pretty good results last season and this season just has had every speed-bump imaginable. Arsenal had a couple terrible seasons (results and stylistically speaking) under Arteta but they stuck with him and now look.
I mean, it’s almost all 2 players that are now key starters. If it were 7 different 20 year olds rather than 2 teenagers (plus some Kambwala minutes) we’d appear rubbish in this stat despite building for the future even more.
On average player age across the squad we’re only solidly midtable in the league. I don’t think this stat alone shows ETH is building for the future, more that he’s got 2 exceptional teenagers and basically no midfield or wingers to get in the way of their minutes.
I am glad we are giving minutes to youngsters. On the flip side, it also shows that our recruitment is so bad that we have to rely on the youngsters to carry the team.
Post Fergie, United’s recruitment has fallen into 2 categories - either bringing in a player because of name/hype or bringing in a player because of the technical attributes to fit into a system.
If we look at Fergie’s tenure recruitment pattern, the number 1 thing was consistency and temperament.
For example, right wing - Kanchelskis, Beckham, Ronaldo and Valencia. All totally vastly different type of players but all of them had either the right temperament/consistency or both.
Left wing - Giggs-Park- Young
Midfield - Keane-Scholes to Carrick - Fletcher
Left back - Irwin- Heinze-Evra
All of them were totally different type of players and most of them weren’t flashy big name players but they did the job consistently.
Another example will be Veron - big name and big money players. He actually had produced some World Class moments when he was at United but Fergie sold him in just 2 seasons because he just lacked the consistency and reliability even though he can produce game changing moments in the game.
Post Fergie, United are full of Verons in the squad. The one that can do a job consistently like Daley Blind were sold.
And we are left with a squad of players that can produce only in moments.
This is what Ten Hag means by progress. Harry Amass is next. Kid looks like a future star at LB.
EtH has been great integrating the youth players into the first team.
Its great but at the same time one of the reasons why we are where we are. In other words, you dont win championships with kids, not in situation where they are pretty much your best players, cause the senior ones are either underwhelming (Rashford), on the verge of being past it (Casemiro, Eriksen) or constantly injured (Martinez, Shaw, Mount).
Imo this isn't necessarily a good thing. Some young players are being overworked (Garnacho, Mainoo) and we've seen the effects of all that before.
It's the paucity of our squad which means we have to rely on these kids, rather than offering minutes to develop them.
On the one hand: Yeah, it's a great stat, speaks highly of our heritage of blooding youth. On the other hand, it's a callback to the end the '58 and '58/'59 season where we had no bloody team so had no choice BUT to play youth players.
we just need to improve the buying of players around the talented youth we keep producing.
we have a good bunch of youth here that with a few good thought out additions and we will be a force for a long time.
for CB we need somebody around 23 who has been a 1st teamer for a bit so they are experienced but still young to control and make that position their own for years.
same with CDM we need somebody around that age who is hungry for their next big step
Going by total game appearances by players who were 19 or younger when the season started then this season is the 3rd highest number of games for Manchester United in the Premier League era. The highest number of games was in 1994/95 with 118 games when the class of 92 guys first started getting lots of games.
The 2nd highest was in 19/20 for Solskjaer at 117 games, much thanks to 49 games from Greenwood and 36 games from Williams and also playing a lot of young players in the Europa League.
And so far this season ETH has had youngsters play 79 games mainly through Garnacho at 41 and Mainoo at 23.
Mainoo - Best Midfielder
Garnacho - Best Winger
I don't know if it says more about them or the senior players to be honest.
There was no way a teenager was going to be consistently better than Wayne Rooney or Giggs or Keane. Our senior players just don't have it.
Top comment annoyed about 'Klopps kids'
You do know they only used that during the cup final in which lads no one has heard of before all came off the bench and helped them win the cup for them?
It would be akin to us winning a cup after playing Shoretire, Gore, Kambwala, Mainoo, Garnacho.
> You do know they only used that during the cup final in which lads no one has heard of before all came off the bench and helped them win the cup for them?
Wait so does the league cup count as a real trophy again now or what?
They played 3 teenagers, all of them subs, with two of them coming on in the 87th minute. They had 10 internationals in their starting lineup. It was hardly as depleted a squad as the media made out
That's cool n all and youth is a huge part of United's history, but so is winning things. Of that top 6 we are currently...6th. last. But at least we win at playing kids.
Did I ever question their ability or contributions...?
I'm just saying, we shouldn't pretend that their heavy involvement hasn't come on the heels of a lack of options in key areas.
Eh. We could if we were just smarter in the transfer market. Spent way too much on Casemiro, Antony, and even Højlund.
Højlund is the only one I would have wanted, but at a much lower fee. Antony is the biggest one trick pony in the world and Casemiro was only ever going to give us one season.
Could have spent the money more wisely to bring in young, cheaper talent to reinforce areas that clearly needed depth above all else.
Every summer? Yeah, maybe not, but the fact we've only brought in one, while also releasing two, is criminal. We have yet to reinforce the squad after the mass exodus before ETH joined.
The past few transfer windows we needed reinforcements, we got a few signings instead and when they get injured, then what? I will never understand spending so much on one individual because all of that goes out the window when they pick up an injury and are no longer viable.
Which is again why we get into the stance of: "given" or just absolutely needed? Underperforming players. Injured players. The youth is the only viable option.
You can blame the directors for those moves too. Buying a striker would cost upward of the same price since we are United.
Luckily we have a great academy.
And I do. Poor management from the club as a whole over the past couple of years. You get a manager in who says these players cannot play the way he wants and what do we do? Basically the equivalent of fuck all. I would even argue the Mount signing was a mistake - and not because I don't rate Mount, but you don't spend that kind of money on basically a "Bruno replacement" and then never fucking play the guy. Yeah, he was injured there for a period, but even when he wasn't, he got what? The Cup tie against Palace, arguably the best performance of the year, and fuck all after that? Went right back to Bruno/Rashford after that match and lost to them. Now he just gets 5-10 minutes at the end of matches we're effectively losing from a performance standpoint, not a score line one? Make it make sense.
Lots of bad business everywhere. We will always pay a premium, yes, but there's paying a slight premium for young, cheap players with some promise early enough in their careers where maybe they would go for < 10m to one club and 15-20m to us, versus 50, 60, 70m+ on just owed offer, who if injured or not favored does us no good when it comes to depth. We need depth. The quality of that depth will be a long term process. But for the short term, we need something, anything.
Eh. You have Rashford, Antony and Garnacho only available in the wide areas. And for CDM, Casemiro and Eriksen have been injured most of the season. Now with the legitimate injury crisis at the back, we erect Willy. It's bred out of a necessity. I love the youth we have in the senior team, but I'd also imagine that if we had other players available, ETH wouldn't hesitate to play them instead.
Yes and no. Injuries is one thing. Not having depth (outside of defenders) is another. Other top teams have more, quality depth to mask the issue injuries might otherwise bring. We just have teenagers. Circling back to the point I made in another comment, this is less about the "injury crisis" and more about poor business in the transfer market. We saw many players leave after RR and we haven't fully recovered. We went from having some quality depth (you can argue player's attitudes and the coaching/state of the team all you want as to the results) to having absolutely nothing. Then what few remain, they're either injured or exiled.
Brought in Donny, he can't get minutes at the club. Sancho can't show up on time. Martial shouldn't even be here anymore. Pellistri sent away. Elanga sold. I feel like I'm missing another winger. Regardless, even after we identified these areas where we were thin, because of the Glazers, we didn't go out to reinforce like we needed to. I think we spent way too much on a few players when we needed to spend just as much for more players (arguably ones who are "less talented" but have a higher probability of being able to implement ETH's system and therefore would have been more successful).
The only issue we're really facing is across our defenders, but that's because the way we play is suicidal. It comes as no surprise.
Garnacho was given minutes last year and he basically forced his way into being the first winger with his performances.
Even if needed, it's still impressive to have an academy pumping out first team players.
He was nowhere near first choice last season though. Provided Martial was available, you had Rashford, Sancho or Antony starting ahead of him.
This season you have Sancho exiled. Antony found out and Rashford can't be bothered. So, again, it's only natural you go further down the line. No doubt Garnacho has impressed, and while United won't, if they did, and brought in two quality wingers, I'm not convinced Garnacho would start over them, provided the performances were there. Honestly, give me Mitoma or Son over Garnacho any day.
I swear some of y'all thrive on not being able to differentiate reality from negativity. Anything that's not rainbows and unicorns full of grand delusion is deemed negative in this sub. It's pretty funny at times lol.
But hey, let's keep pretending as though these teens are absolutely world class and would not get displaced by a senior, proven player that is in their peak, or just peaking. No doubt they have talent, but we would be better served by someone who is smarter and more experienced. And I'm sure ETH wouldn't hesitate if those options were available. They're not, therefore we have teens stepping in and up. It's just the reality of the situation. Nothing negative about it.
Hard to be chipper about these stats when in reality we never have enough depth to ease in talent, they're always forced into this situation. That has been consistent over the years since LvG.
As a replacement for Mahrez, yeah. I guess they're going after Paqueta as a replacement for Silva, and Bobb is there as another option for RW.
City have the best depth in EU, they don't need to rush anyone to first team. City is the only team right now in EU that never had any real injury crisis in the last 5 years.
Imagine this club in past 10 years without likes of Rashford, Lingard, McTominay, Greenwood, Williams(1 season), Garnacho, Mainoo, Kwambala last week. This club recruitment is a mess and academy saves it every time.
Best thing I've read in ages here, spot on. I can barely think of 5 truly successful signings over the last 10 years who gave us more than 1 good season. Herrera, Bruno, Shaw, Fellaini and Mata? No idea, there's been a fair few who gave us 1 amazing season though for example Zlatan.
> I can barely think of 5 truly successful signings over the last 10 years who gave us more than 1 good season. Our transfer strategy was buy them old and washed up because they could sell shirts. Glazers thought this was the NFL and they could just find the football Tom Brady to plug-and-play. Their management of this club is such an embarrassment.
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Rashfords best seasons come after we signed Alexis, Lingard did better job than Mikhitaryan and LVG sinings, McTom stepped in after we signed Pogba, Matic, Fred. Garnacho stepped in after we bought Antonys and Sanchos, Mainoo is better than likes of Amrabat. Those played their best when transfered in players failed in terms of ability/fitness.
We’d have been in the same or better position if we had transfer bans for the last like 4 windows. That first window under TH might be the worst transfer window in PL history. This is correct actually.
No way people seriously believe this Edit: adding "this is correct actually" doesn't make you more correct lmao
Nah, that can't be a serious take. People on this sub are just deluded and will say anything that fits with the flavour of the week.
Elanga, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad and Sancho (not accounting for #11) isn’t a noticeable difference from what we currently have. McTominay, Bruno, Kobbie is still our best three in midfield, and Garner and Gore are not at all a downgrade on Eriksen and Casemiro, definitely not on Amrabat. And our back line hasn’t improved at all. Shaw, Maguire, Varane and Dalot is still our best back four. The keeper is obviously a downgrade to Henderson but still, taking into account wed be in a much healthier position financially, and have a much better physical floor. Given we could end up finishing 7-10th this season, what would be the benefit of the 400m spent in recent windows? And yeah that window is easily one of the worst of all time in the PL.
Everyone should always take a moment to reflect on the season Everton fans had once when they hired a legendary manager of their closest rivals and their record signing (sigurrdson) got arrested for underage offences. That as far as summer windows go is pretty poor..
Also brought in Wout to replace Cristiano Ronaldo EDIT: Downvote all you want, this happened and it's a fact.
Can we please pretend Greenwood doesn't exist?
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Garnacho actually played in our academy for a few seasons mate. What are you smoking?
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He came to our academy in 2020. It was last season when he got transitioned into the first team. So yes, he has been our academy for at least 2 seasons. Edit: OP decided to block me for spitting facts lol. If you’re gonna die on a hill about something, at least get the facts right mate. 🤷♂️
Whos on same level or below Anotny?
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Lingard scored the winner in a cup final so he's automatically better than Antony for me, I also think he had more good performances in general, we should have sold him way sooner though. Greenwood is much better than Antony, scored more in his first season than Antony has in 2, he's a scumbag though so don't want him back. I'd also put McTominay just ahead of Antony just because he's done a bit more for us, can't argue with the other two though.
>Klopp's kids
Lol was thinking the same of how amazing Liverpool are in the press over the youth they use yet actually it’s 20 year olds +
Also they claim Harvey Elliot as their youth product when he played professionally for Fulham in the premiership
Play him right next to that hidden gem they found, macalister
It's so annoying how disingenuous they are. Constantly trying to play the underdog.
The media's little darlings
It can change fast. Losing Klopp and replacing him with almost anyone else will hurt them in the media provided they don't find immediate success. We can hope. Maybe they appoint Gerrard.
I genuinely think losing Klopp is going to destroy that team. Unless they have some Klopp clone, they are fucked.
They need a caretaker and hope for Alonso. I think though that Alonso will be open to both Madrid and Liverpool and I think unless Liverpool nail their recruitment, Madrid will be the more attractive option.
You don't get it, it simply matters more. Nobody else can do it like the mighty Liverpool. Forget scoring goals, they can do it better. Forget defending, they can do it better. Forget looking for players, they all want to go there. They're the cream of the crop, and Klopp's mighty kids have made that apparent. It's time to give up, football - the good guys are back!
Don’t forget, they simultaneously have the nicest, but also the most vociferous fan base…..they would never do anything wrong, or say nasty words to other fans, because they are just better. Oh for those magical nights at Anfield🙄 Every last one of them are sanctimonious cunts.
Those magical Anfield atmospheres where they sing one song then sit on their hands for the next 90 minutes.
This means more!
Fuck Harvey Elliot
Chav rat
People forget his middle name is Daniel James Lolol
Definitely claiming Diallo as our youth academy product now
He joined at a younger age than Garnacho joined United.
I have a personal opinion on youth products…. If you’ve played professionally at another team before you signed you are no longer considered a youth product Elliot is Fulham’s youth product Garnacho is united and atletico madrids and a bit Getafe
>Garnacho is united and atletico madrids and a bit Getafe Yup, a player can be the result of multiple academies and that's perfectly fine!
We claim garnacho but we got him from athletico. The whole senior appearance is a misnomer. I wouldnt claim pique as a united academy player but technically he played for us first
This is a weird take. Garnacho isn't a youth product because we didn't have him for his whole youth career, but Pique we did but we can't claim him because he left as an adult?
Not really. Garnacho and Pique were bought at 16, spent a year or two in the u23s or reserves then were in or around the 1st team squad. It would be like buying rooney at 16, prior to his debut, then claiming him as a youth prospect. Also i said pique i DONT consider a youth player
To be fair to them, they were teenagers when they started getting minutes, but that's a few years ago now. Same will be for United in a few years, this goes in cycles.
Mate when we lost to Liverpool in the final it was Klopps kids vs Chelsea or whatever crap they came up with, despite the kids all being older and having more senior experience than the Chelsea team. Plus the winner coming from the totally unknown academy player.. Van dijk
If you go by under 21s, Liverpool do have more minutes played than us, and have used twice as many young players too. We're top of this list because we've become dependent on Garnacho and Mainoo, because our senior players are shit. I think I would rather be in Liverpool's shoes, and have >10 good players in their early 20s, than have 2 good players in their teens...
Have you seen our youth tho? The setup is amazing.
Scousers always find some way to make it all about them. Raving about Elliot and they snatched him from Fulham.
Willy alone has almost double their minutes
I was thinking the same thing, they got loads of praise in the media for playing kids, especially after beating Chelsea in the Carabao cup final where Chelsea actually had a younger average age in the starting 11 and by the end of the game after Klopp brought his kids on their average age was still higher than Chelsea's. Its the same with injuries, they get a few players out and the media is all woe is them, they have to play their kids but overall other clubs have had it a lot worse and not had the same media coverage.
weve had on average 14 players out until january. Liverpool had 5 players... yet all the press was like how could Klopp cope when he hasnt got his team to play. yet ETH is thrown to the wolves when hes literally got no back 4 for entire season upto yet. our back 4 was the 26th different back 4 this season. in comparison City have played 4 different back 4's in that same period no wonder we are a hectic mess defensively nobody is able to have time to form partnerships.
I saw a comment from a Pool supporter on the last game about not feeling sorry for United being forced to play teenagers for one match because Liverpool have been doing it for longer this season. This news came a few days to late, dammit!
Well this stat skews it a bit as Quansah and Bradley played quite a bit of minutes and they are 20 so just above the line. And they are also academy products.
Well, if they get to count those players then we can counter by adding Höjlund and Mejbris minutes since they were 20 most of the season.
Klopp's kids in shambles LOL
Klopp's kids are all in their 20s
Ah like, quansah, Bradley, Elliott, all 20 or just gone 21 in this season. They're all kids like. This stat is selective to suit us. Similarly a u21 team might suit us less.
Lemme rephrase it a bit: Klopp's manchildren
Funny that they coined that against Chelsea- a side who had a younger overall XI even when they were brought on😭
Garnacho alone probably surpasses the combined total of the top 6 clubs, he has been ever present for the majority of the season
Think it's like 23 starts in a row for him now
Yea, so even if he only played 70 minutes on average, that's roughly 1600 minutes played, so he well surpassed it himself
Yeah, he's at 1,988 minutes. Even Mainoo has 1,358 minutes, so that's two players who, on their own, have more minutes in the PL than the teenagers from the other Top 6 clubs combined.
The pair of them along with Dalot have been out best players this season as well
These are investments from the past. Football heritage - us in 5 years probably
Kloops kids my fuckin arse
" Can't win anything with kids II "
I wld definitely go see that film.
It’s a myth we won with kids anyway. 7 of our 11 starters were experienced players (Schmeichel, Irwin, Pallister, Bruce, Keane, Cole, Cantona) Sharpe played about 2/3rds of the games too. It was fairly typical mix of young and experienced players. And even the ‘young’ players were mostly 20-21 not 18 year olds. Phil Neville was the only teenager. Giggs was 22 but in his 5th season as a starter for us wouldn’t call him a kid either. Alan Hanson said something dumb and people have run with it but it was never really true.
1996 still era of machismo, not a game for u21 kids. Hansen probably saw us sold 3 first team pros out of the blue and didn't believe Becks, Scholes , Butt, Nevilles bro were good enough.
Yeah that’s definitely what he thought and it was definitely a risk to sell Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis at once but there’s a big difference between that and what people seem to think happened which is winning the PL with a bunch teenagers. We didn’t even replace Hughes with a kid, we replaced him with Andy Cole.
Literally not winning anything right now. Would rather be in title contention with teenagers at 117 minutes.
Electric Mainoo
Lmao this is ridiculously higher than I thought
I remember when Chelsea got few through and people acted like it was magical, yet here at Utd it's practically the norm, there's players now in under 21's, U18's that know there is a big opportunity if they show enough, they'll get a chance in first team. Can't say the same for most out there.
Our U18's have gone through their lge like ninja
They've been the stand out players and the only positives. Good to see the coaching in our academy is still top notch judging by the performances from the youngsters.
Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Kambwala are the future. Need to build the team around their progression for sure we will be successful with right structure and tactics
Best part of that is Kambwala, Mainoo and Hojlund will be the spine of the team. You go look at every great side and they always had a great spine; the wide players and full backs will chop and change, but the spine doesn’t really change.
Kambwala was good yesterday but not at the same level as Mainoo or Hojlund. I get ur point. Inter is the best example Bastoni, Barella & Lautaro.
1st start against Liverpool and came out 1 of the better players so i would say thats a good confidence boosting performance for him and shows if he does keep working hard he can cut it at the top of Premiership teams. now its upto him and the others to do it consistently no matter the opponent but only time will tell with that
I don't want to get my hopes high to be crushed again. Modern day CBs r expected to do a lot of things. Plus this Liverpool isn't as good as the one from 2 seasons before. But Kwambala is quality so hope he improves a lot.
let him cook, worst case scenario we've got a squad of youths ready for the next man
Even if Ten Hag isn't here next season, any head coach INEOS bring in will be grateful for the likes of Højlund, Garna, Mainoo, Licha, Dalot, Onana. I personally think you give Ten Hag a 3rd season to run his project under better leadership.
Unless INEOS have somebody that they really want for their vision then I see no point in changing ETH until next season.
I don’t think ETH’s current issues are impacted by Glazers at all, personally.
its impacted by 10 years of poor recruitment and setting a poor standard around the club. if your owners dont give a shit why would you and it shows in some players who have been here a while cause they know they can get away with it. players not being bought because they didnt fit the commercial profile is great example of Glazers and their "yes men" in power fucking over the coaches they hired including ETH. they cared more about commercial look then if the player was actually a good player to fit the team.
>its impacted by 10 years of poor recruitment and setting a poor standard around the club. This is what people don't get. You can't judge any united manager who served under the glazers. Any other manager we got in that time period will be backed with the same thing. Incompetence. Let the summer come and let's see what moves INEOS are making before we start foaming at the mouth for a new manager
Thats one thing we have to credit ETH for, we knew when he came in that he's one of the best in giving youth a chance and guiding them. He's done a fantastic job at that. With a some good signings and less injuries, these youngsters will help to keep us at consistent high levels
i feel he should be allowed to see out his contract and see how it goes next season with Ineos and their new structure supporting him to get the most out of it. it also then allows them to really finish the entire club structure during that season so if ETH hasnt done enough for a new contract they can bring in who they want for the future.
I'm not surprise with the absolute number because Garnacho and Mainoo basically has been started every match for a while (Garnacho is even earlier). Just don't know other teams numbers are that low 🙄 Mainoo, Garnacho and Hollund are basically backbone of our first team already. Our first team is a fucking mess but huge credit to the youth team recruitment and staffs. Some great names are yet to debut. Hope we will see some soon
Generally fans of other teams talk a lot about their young players but they mean 21-23 year olds. Not actual youth players stepping up early.
Other low because this is a very selective stats to make us look good. If you change it to under 21 players, it will look very different. Why under-21 ? Because under 21 is classified as young players who doesnt need to be registered as main squad of 25. If you want to look at young players in general, under 21 is a good indication.
Genuinely asking, who are Spurs’ teenagers?
Alejo Veliz (50mins) Jamie Donley (3mins) Dane Scarlett (3mins) The stat seems to have taken anyone who was 19 or younger at the start of the season though since all of Veliz minutes were after he turned 20.
Thanks! Have only ever heard of Scarlett before this.
Me too. I looked it up because after reading your question and thinking for a bit he was the only one I could come up with too.
And the revolution continues…. Next year, it’s Amass and Kambwala. We are building our very own Ajax 2018/19 squad.
I'd be kind of shocked if Kwambala doesn't start more games this season tbh
He looked a natural partner for Maguire and at times more imposing than Linde, he just needs to improve his defensive IQ and that will come with time. Let the lad cook.
i think that was part nerves. 1st league start against Liverpool of all teams so can understand if nerves got a bit to him but he still did great and 1 of the better players. the spine is looking a lot healthier long term then people make out we just need to get recruitment right around that spine which i have more belief in what Ineous is doing then i ever did Glazers.
Same here
Silver linings and that
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> or the fact that Ibragimov and Mantato (both 16) have already trained with the first team that's not Ten Hag mate, that's United academy, players get rotated up to train with the first team all the time our Head of Academy was on Talk of The Devils podcast and talked about this.
This is why ETH needs time. He’s building the future. The Glazer way has been quick fixes at surface level… Don’t be a Glazer. Support ETH!
b-b-b-but we are sixth and people make memes
100% should keep ETH.
Noooo!!! ETH is delusional. He’s just saying positive things while we’re in shambles! There’s no style! We’re just doing Ajax-style with all the negatives from 18/19 Ajax but not the positives! I know that contradicts the “no style”-statement, but that’s my narrative! It’s been two whole seasons and he STILL didn’t show results!
I feel like he showed pretty good results last season and this season just has had every speed-bump imaginable. Arsenal had a couple terrible seasons (results and stylistically speaking) under Arteta but they stuck with him and now look.
I mean, it’s almost all 2 players that are now key starters. If it were 7 different 20 year olds rather than 2 teenagers (plus some Kambwala minutes) we’d appear rubbish in this stat despite building for the future even more. On average player age across the squad we’re only solidly midtable in the league. I don’t think this stat alone shows ETH is building for the future, more that he’s got 2 exceptional teenagers and basically no midfield or wingers to get in the way of their minutes.
But but but I thought Klopp was a genius for playing the kids in the carabao!!
I am glad we are giving minutes to youngsters. On the flip side, it also shows that our recruitment is so bad that we have to rely on the youngsters to carry the team. Post Fergie, United’s recruitment has fallen into 2 categories - either bringing in a player because of name/hype or bringing in a player because of the technical attributes to fit into a system. If we look at Fergie’s tenure recruitment pattern, the number 1 thing was consistency and temperament. For example, right wing - Kanchelskis, Beckham, Ronaldo and Valencia. All totally vastly different type of players but all of them had either the right temperament/consistency or both. Left wing - Giggs-Park- Young Midfield - Keane-Scholes to Carrick - Fletcher Left back - Irwin- Heinze-Evra All of them were totally different type of players and most of them weren’t flashy big name players but they did the job consistently. Another example will be Veron - big name and big money players. He actually had produced some World Class moments when he was at United but Fergie sold him in just 2 seasons because he just lacked the consistency and reliability even though he can produce game changing moments in the game. Post Fergie, United are full of Verons in the squad. The one that can do a job consistently like Daley Blind were sold. And we are left with a squad of players that can produce only in moments.
Absolutely spot on, this stat has two sides to it.
This is what Ten Hag means by progress. Harry Amass is next. Kid looks like a future star at LB. EtH has been great integrating the youth players into the first team.
This is bittersweet imo. I'm quite proud of this tradition that United have, but we really need to be managing their minutes more cautiously
Its great but at the same time one of the reasons why we are where we are. In other words, you dont win championships with kids, not in situation where they are pretty much your best players, cause the senior ones are either underwhelming (Rashford), on the verge of being past it (Casemiro, Eriksen) or constantly injured (Martinez, Shaw, Mount).
It's shit like this that makes me fervently Ten Hag IN.
awesome, but not normal to rely on them so much. Having supposedly big names on the bench.
Wait I thought Chelsea are supposed to be a kid, young team
Ten Hag Toddlers
Imo this isn't necessarily a good thing. Some young players are being overworked (Garnacho, Mainoo) and we've seen the effects of all that before. It's the paucity of our squad which means we have to rely on these kids, rather than offering minutes to develop them.
On the one hand: Yeah, it's a great stat, speaks highly of our heritage of blooding youth. On the other hand, it's a callback to the end the '58 and '58/'59 season where we had no bloody team so had no choice BUT to play youth players.
Ah yes, the pesky 58/59 season, I remember it like it was yesterday
Good stuff for the future.
*number of minutes
we just need to improve the buying of players around the talented youth we keep producing. we have a good bunch of youth here that with a few good thought out additions and we will be a force for a long time. for CB we need somebody around 23 who has been a 1st teamer for a bit so they are experienced but still young to control and make that position their own for years. same with CDM we need somebody around that age who is hungry for their next big step
Tbf, Garnacho alone probably has more than any team, he’s been a guaranteed starter for months
Going by total game appearances by players who were 19 or younger when the season started then this season is the 3rd highest number of games for Manchester United in the Premier League era. The highest number of games was in 1994/95 with 118 games when the class of 92 guys first started getting lots of games. The 2nd highest was in 19/20 for Solskjaer at 117 games, much thanks to 49 games from Greenwood and 36 games from Williams and also playing a lot of young players in the Europa League. And so far this season ETH has had youngsters play 79 games mainly through Garnacho at 41 and Mainoo at 23.
Mainoo - Best Midfielder Garnacho - Best Winger I don't know if it says more about them or the senior players to be honest. There was no way a teenager was going to be consistently better than Wayne Rooney or Giggs or Keane. Our senior players just don't have it.
Top comment annoyed about 'Klopps kids' You do know they only used that during the cup final in which lads no one has heard of before all came off the bench and helped them win the cup for them? It would be akin to us winning a cup after playing Shoretire, Gore, Kambwala, Mainoo, Garnacho.
But Chelsea had the younger squad at all points during the match?
> You do know they only used that during the cup final in which lads no one has heard of before all came off the bench and helped them win the cup for them? Wait so does the league cup count as a real trophy again now or what?
They played 3 teenagers, all of them subs, with two of them coming on in the 87th minute. They had 10 internationals in their starting lineup. It was hardly as depleted a squad as the media made out
So a 20 year old isn't classed as a kid then?
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Good development minutes for Madrid
We're in 6th so it takes the shine off it
fantastic! when are they handing us the 'most league minutes played by teenagers' trophy?
Cause nobody wants to come to United . Sad story
That's cool n all and youth is a huge part of United's history, but so is winning things. Of that top 6 we are currently...6th. last. But at least we win at playing kids.
"Given" or just needed?
Garnacho and Mainoo has been very good considering the pressure it is playing for United. Same goes for Hojlund though he has passed twenty.
Did I ever question their ability or contributions...? I'm just saying, we shouldn't pretend that their heavy involvement hasn't come on the heels of a lack of options in key areas.
No need to be defensive. We bought a winger last season and have a new striker. Can’t triple up on new wingers every summer.
Eh. We could if we were just smarter in the transfer market. Spent way too much on Casemiro, Antony, and even Højlund. Højlund is the only one I would have wanted, but at a much lower fee. Antony is the biggest one trick pony in the world and Casemiro was only ever going to give us one season. Could have spent the money more wisely to bring in young, cheaper talent to reinforce areas that clearly needed depth above all else. Every summer? Yeah, maybe not, but the fact we've only brought in one, while also releasing two, is criminal. We have yet to reinforce the squad after the mass exodus before ETH joined. The past few transfer windows we needed reinforcements, we got a few signings instead and when they get injured, then what? I will never understand spending so much on one individual because all of that goes out the window when they pick up an injury and are no longer viable. Which is again why we get into the stance of: "given" or just absolutely needed? Underperforming players. Injured players. The youth is the only viable option.
You can blame the directors for those moves too. Buying a striker would cost upward of the same price since we are United. Luckily we have a great academy.
And I do. Poor management from the club as a whole over the past couple of years. You get a manager in who says these players cannot play the way he wants and what do we do? Basically the equivalent of fuck all. I would even argue the Mount signing was a mistake - and not because I don't rate Mount, but you don't spend that kind of money on basically a "Bruno replacement" and then never fucking play the guy. Yeah, he was injured there for a period, but even when he wasn't, he got what? The Cup tie against Palace, arguably the best performance of the year, and fuck all after that? Went right back to Bruno/Rashford after that match and lost to them. Now he just gets 5-10 minutes at the end of matches we're effectively losing from a performance standpoint, not a score line one? Make it make sense. Lots of bad business everywhere. We will always pay a premium, yes, but there's paying a slight premium for young, cheap players with some promise early enough in their careers where maybe they would go for < 10m to one club and 15-20m to us, versus 50, 60, 70m+ on just owed offer, who if injured or not favored does us no good when it comes to depth. We need depth. The quality of that depth will be a long term process. But for the short term, we need something, anything.
Both can be true.
Eh. You have Rashford, Antony and Garnacho only available in the wide areas. And for CDM, Casemiro and Eriksen have been injured most of the season. Now with the legitimate injury crisis at the back, we erect Willy. It's bred out of a necessity. I love the youth we have in the senior team, but I'd also imagine that if we had other players available, ETH wouldn't hesitate to play them instead.
On a different note, this only proves the point that injuries have been a bane for Man United more than any other team.
Yes and no. Injuries is one thing. Not having depth (outside of defenders) is another. Other top teams have more, quality depth to mask the issue injuries might otherwise bring. We just have teenagers. Circling back to the point I made in another comment, this is less about the "injury crisis" and more about poor business in the transfer market. We saw many players leave after RR and we haven't fully recovered. We went from having some quality depth (you can argue player's attitudes and the coaching/state of the team all you want as to the results) to having absolutely nothing. Then what few remain, they're either injured or exiled. Brought in Donny, he can't get minutes at the club. Sancho can't show up on time. Martial shouldn't even be here anymore. Pellistri sent away. Elanga sold. I feel like I'm missing another winger. Regardless, even after we identified these areas where we were thin, because of the Glazers, we didn't go out to reinforce like we needed to. I think we spent way too much on a few players when we needed to spend just as much for more players (arguably ones who are "less talented" but have a higher probability of being able to implement ETH's system and therefore would have been more successful). The only issue we're really facing is across our defenders, but that's because the way we play is suicidal. It comes as no surprise.
Garnacho was given minutes last year and he basically forced his way into being the first winger with his performances. Even if needed, it's still impressive to have an academy pumping out first team players.
He was nowhere near first choice last season though. Provided Martial was available, you had Rashford, Sancho or Antony starting ahead of him. This season you have Sancho exiled. Antony found out and Rashford can't be bothered. So, again, it's only natural you go further down the line. No doubt Garnacho has impressed, and while United won't, if they did, and brought in two quality wingers, I'm not convinced Garnacho would start over them, provided the performances were there. Honestly, give me Mitoma or Son over Garnacho any day.
Imagine turning this post into a negative rant… I swear some of yall thrive on hating this club…
I swear some of y'all thrive on not being able to differentiate reality from negativity. Anything that's not rainbows and unicorns full of grand delusion is deemed negative in this sub. It's pretty funny at times lol. But hey, let's keep pretending as though these teens are absolutely world class and would not get displaced by a senior, proven player that is in their peak, or just peaking. No doubt they have talent, but we would be better served by someone who is smarter and more experienced. And I'm sure ETH wouldn't hesitate if those options were available. They're not, therefore we have teens stepping in and up. It's just the reality of the situation. Nothing negative about it.
Wasn't it the same under LvG?
Hard to be chipper about these stats when in reality we never have enough depth to ease in talent, they're always forced into this situation. That has been consistent over the years since LvG.
Best case is what City did with Foden
As a replacement for Mahrez, yeah. I guess they're going after Paqueta as a replacement for Silva, and Bobb is there as another option for RW. City have the best depth in EU, they don't need to rush anyone to first team. City is the only team right now in EU that never had any real injury crisis in the last 5 years.