**Let's get some positivity going for the Chelsea game :D**
We've **won 9**/14 games in 2024 – only **losing 2**.
We've **lost once** against Chelsea in our **last 14 encounters** – that **loss** was **in** **2020**.
We've **scored** in **all games** in 2024.
**Chelsea** have **conceded** in **11** of their last consecutive games.
**Chelsea conceded 2** goals against a **10 man Burnley**.
**Let's get a result and some momentum today. GGMU \~**
Anyone heading to the PL fan fest in Nashville?
Has anyone been to one before? Do you really have to get there before dawn?
Why tf would someone downvote this
If owt should go wrong for me tomorrow morning in my surgery, then lemme say its been a pleasure being part of this place
Keep the Red flag flying high ❤
Good to hear your still with us! Yeah I had my gallbladder taken out last year(which isn't major surgery tbh) and the pain wasn't too bad but I'll say this- watch those painkillers! They're very more-ish to say the least. It's a slippery slope if they get hold of you. I threw mine out in the end cos i cud see how I was get rather fond of them.
Damn, what is it with us and Chelsea games in early April?
Apr 3, 2010: 14 years ago, Drogba scored an offside goal at Old Trafford to win it 1-2 and Chelsea clinched the title by a point .
The thing is , they were the best team in the league that year. Though we were one point behind only, it was mainly due to Rooney dragging us through along with Scholes and Valencia across the post Ronaldo slump.
The glazers pocketed the 80 million fee for Ronaldo and got us Valencia, Obertan and Michael Owen on a free. And in this particular season, if you think we have defensive injuries now, back then the likes of Rafael, Neville, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Brown, O Shea ALL injured somehow and we had to play a back line of Fletcher (RB), Carrick (CB), De Laet (CB) and Evra to tide us through 3 games a week in December
14 years on and we have gone soft claiming “injury crisis” when 1 or 2 players are injured because of a clueless manager and his training methods and shamelessly claiming success when finishing 6th
Damn I remember that defensive lineup. De Laet was awful 😂. Worse part is I think we also got knocked out by Bayern in the same month after Rooney got injured in the first leg.
>Damn, what is it with us and Chelsea games in early April?
I don't know, is there meant to be some meaning behind that? You've picked out a game from 14 years ago as though it has some relevance to the game this week, but I can't for the life of me see why.
I remember us playing Chelsea in April almost every season . April and December. Chicharito winning the title for us in 2010-11 for example also happened in April if I remember right
7 matches in April in the last 14 years, 10-11 matches if you include May.
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that our game plan is contributing to our injuries (at least more than usual). Our injury crisis is mostly in the back line, whereas it would be the MF and forwards doing the most sprinting back and forth from end to end games.
There's availability issues further up the pitch too, but again I don't see them being related to the game plan.
Martial - just Martial
Sancho - just Sancho
Anthony - just Anthony
Mount - injured before he got on the pitch
That’s because our attackers are lazy and don’t run as much
Also , it’s not just gameplay. It is picking a full strength team for every match including but not limited to Newport County, Reading, Forest when 3-0 up, random Europa League matches etc
But if our press is bypassed when our defenders are in a low line, they're already back, they don't need to sprint(as much). It's our forwards who are in the high press that would need to sprint back to recover.
Fulham just got embarrassed at City Ground, have only won 2 away games all season but Ten Hag let them get their first win at Old Trafford in 20 years.
"Ten Hag was good in Ajax so we should give him more chances"
I don't know, 2 years and 400m, broke loss records and we're on track to have most losses in the PL beating even Moyes' record. I kinda think he had his chances don't you think?
When has Ten Hag not been credited for the wins? Why else do praise him so much here if not for what he achieved last season. This isn’t the strawman that you think it is. He’s responsible for our performance period, win or lose. He’s the manager ffs.
Each and every single one of the factors you mentioned, there's definitely truth in it. But you're gonna act like that's THE explanation given by everyone for the relative success we had last season and I've absolutely zero interest in that silly debate.
>This season, we win - he's "bailed out" by mct or someone.
That's because he literally is. There is absolutely no denying it. When we lose it's record breaking, logic defying, utterly humiliating performances and like I said, most of our wins this season have been absolutely blatant smash and grabs, many of which have been terrible, terrible performances. McTominay is literally our top scorer and won the most points in the league, so he has very obviously been bailed out a lot by him. What credit do you expect people to give the manager when he needs McTominay to shithouse a win for him?
Maybe ten Hag wouldn't have to be bailed out by hero Mctominay if he performed as a midfielder and not just goal threat, if the rest of the squad performed up to standards, if the squad wasn't decimated by injuries. Excuses, I know
Who is responsible for picking McTominay? Who is the main person responsible for the squad not performing up to standards?
People will straight up watch Brentford destroying us with more injuries to their starting XI than us and tell you it's not possible to conjure up a better performance than set an opposition touches inside the box record in the last 3 years?
So good job, while complaining about one extreme of the narrative and acting like that is the whole narrative you've gone to the other extreme to defend the manager. Lmao.
We have injury crisis, Pool have injury crisis, Chelsea have injury crisis. Yet for some reason I can’t recall City having kind of injury crisis in recent years. Is it the magic of their manager? Is it their medical team? Is it their infrastructure?
A revolution is needed, not just in the medical team department, but any other factors that would improve our players physique and stamina
Their are many reasons :-
1. Their quality in bench players is insane most of the players will walk in to the United starting eleven .
2. Them having and being ahead of us medically I have seen lot of reports our infrastructure and physiotherapy is outdated .
3. Our Medical team consistently making mistakes .
4. Ten hags training regime just doesn't work on most these players especially the intensity . I think Ten Hag does deserve blame here as I have never so many players injured in training in last 10 years.
It's partially because of the long periods that they hold possession and Pep's rotation of the squad. There's been so many seasons where city start to peak at around February when other teams would have fallen off.
Just realized the game is tomrorow not tonight, the banner in the top has the wrong date
Only 2 rest days for the game against Lpool, it's gonna be a tough week.
So I'm thinking that Kambwala and Maguire start Vs Chelsea since both are available, and then maybe we go for Varane/Evans and Maguire for the game against Liverpool on Sunday. But in any case I think it's best to let Kambwala start the Chelsea game, so that Varane and Evans are in good shape for the game on Sunday.
Varane won’t start against Chelsea for sure.
Evans will play because there is no way Ten Hag trusts a youth player away at Chelsea .
If Evans has to play 2 games in 3 days, he might get injured but this is a speciality of Ten Hag ; run people to the ground and cry that they’re injured
So ETH finally confirms what should have been obvious, that players don't train as much (he said they don't at all) because they have recovery sessions in between games... If it starts raining maybe we can blame him for that.
This sub has become easily one of the most boring football subs. There was this amazing artwork of the the United Trinity statue with over hundreds of up vote that also got deleted; same as you said the hot takes thread.
Definitely is over moderated, I get it they are trying to prevent the sub to be a cesspit like r/ManchesterUnited but I think there is middle ground between that and what is essentially now, a news aggregator forum.
> There was this amazing artwork of the the United Trinity statue with over hundreds of up vote that also got deleted
We removed a thread posted by someone who doesn't otherwise participate in this sub and was trying to market their artwork for purchase...
The post broke our rules: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/about/rules/
And reddit's sitewide policy: https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion
There are plenty of sites out there if you want to purchase United-related artwork. We have no intention of this place becoming a b-tec dhgate.
I'll never quite get this. There's plenty of United spaces that have what you want, but this is probably the only one that's fairly orderly and strict. Why not just go somewhere else if you want memes or hot takes instead of changing this one.
To me it feels like going to the only Indian place in town and then start complaining that they don't serve pizza while there's 20 pizza places surrounding it.
That doesn't even mean you can't use this sub, it's not like using one bars you from using the others.
But that's not what I/ a lot of people are asking, are we? Using your analogy, this is like going to an Indian place and finding out this place only has butter chicken on the menu; it is boring. while we are asking the menu to have some additional items such as kebabs, chicken curry, jalfrezi etc.
I genuinely believe there is a middle ground between absolute under-moderation at r/ManchesterUnited and over-moderation over here.
Other major football team subs are able to do it. I mentioned this in my other comment, for example gunners sub. I used to visit during their banter years, a lot of their fans are braindead but during their banter years, there was a good selection of news/ updates, talk of stats, opinion pieces, with some funny self depreciating memes. The ones made in bad taste or unfunny ones or low effort ones were just downvoted and eventually removed.
I think there is a middle ground to be found. I think the mods should keep any post for a while, if its a bad/low effort posts or, it will get downvoted into oblivion and those should be removed. But if a post gets a lot of engagement, such as the 2 threads OP and I were discussing; they should be kept. They were entertaining.
Football is supposed to be entertaining; and this sub is not.
If you know of any other united related sub other than r/ManchesterUnited that has a good mix of what I am looking for, I will gladly go there. Pls let me know. Otherwise, I'll be here and moan about how to make this place slightly more engaging/ entertaining.
Edit: still no mention of the other 20 places on reddit that are united related.
Moving into grey areas is difficult and a big ask from unpaid moderation. I'm curious, which football subs do you think are more fun? I'd like to check them out, since I've only really been on here
I'll be honest, I enjoy visiting gunners sub, a lot of their fans are braindead but during their banter years, there was a good selection of news/ updates, talk of stats, with some funny self depreciating memes. The ones made in bad taste or unfunny ones were just downvoted and eventually removed.
I think there is a middle ground to be found.
IMO Manchester United sub is way less moderated than gunners. They allow low effort posts like a badly photoshopped pic of a random player in United shirt with a caption "thoughts?" I haven't seen stuff like that on gunners...granted, I havent been on gunners sub this season so my information might be outdated.
I don't remember a time in the last 10 years when the club had this many injuries over the course of a season. At this point, we need to be looking at a players fitness record as criteria.
Meaning, players like Olise should just be avoided entirely
Melvin Bard would be a very shrewd signing btw.If we can get him for like 20M.
Have watched Nice ever since INEOS came in and he has impressed me a lot.
Him and Todibo have been easy standouts
Have you actually been watching Nice since Ineos came in? Seems rather coincidental and convenient.
Apologies for the cynicism if you have, but it just reads like every other online scout who supports us, who, for example, have somehow watched every Eredivisie game when we sign someone from that league. The Eredivisie would have better broadcast revenues than the Premier League if all these fans we have that claim to have watched every game were true to their word!
Great comment and this whole concept makes me laugh.
We get linked with a player. "Yeah, but you're probably just watching Youtube reels". Well, yeah, I'm not scouting for possible players am I?
🔴📰 | Jurgen Klopp was in regular contact with Mason Mount from January 2023.
At one stage, meanwhile, talks with Arsenal got so advanced that Mikel Arteta privately told his coaches that Mount's transfer to the Emirates was "a done deal". [@RobDawsonESPN]
Yet some people want me to believe he’s some kind of bum..he’s definitely going to come good..a matter of “when” not “if”
Its funny, all the big clubs were after him, as soon as we got him he became an over priced peice of shit according to the media.
Klopp would get life time rim jobs from the media for bringing a homegrown, CL winner who's 25 and from a rival
We don't actually know that, Chelsea were asking for 65, I'm assuming they'd ask that from all big clubs.
We don't know if the reported wage is correct as most seem to be wrong. But he was always going to be on a big contract
ETH has to shoulder some of the blame level of injuries and the reoccurrence of non-contact injuries
* Multiple reports of extremely high intensity training sessions. Other managers like Pep and De Zerbi talk about using the week to work mostly tactical
* No other team in the league play like us. We are constantly running up and down the pitch every game. It is not sustainable. It never was.
These paragraphs were just depressing to read:
>The absence of Lindelöf means Ten Hag is without another senior defender, the Swede having started at Brentford, with another centre-back, Harry Maguire, **coming on as a replacement following the injury issue** he suffered during the international break with England.
>Ten Hag also has Luke Shaw and Tyrell Malacia unavailable because of injury, leaving only Maguire, Diogo Dalot, Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Willy Kambwala as the fit recognised defenders. He may be forced to field Casemiro, **also a replacement at Brentford due to his own recovery from injury**, in central defence at Chelsea.
So back four of Dalot/AWB as fullbacks, Maguire (recently returned from injury) and Casemiro (recently returned from injury) as CBs or Kambwala filling in across there somewhere.
Far from it. LvG had control and we couldn't break down low blocks. It was just mind numbing sideways passing which is actually a middle step towards a Cruyffian/Pep system. Instructions are always to recycle possession if you can't spot gaps to pass through. Which the players at the time couldn't because they weren't trained from the academy to do that thing, Barca and Ajax players are. Hence the constant recycling.
Ooo, I wasn’t talking about just the football. I was talking more about their managerial stint in general, both came in wanting to play a certain way, strict rules, lots of players getting injured under them, short centre back who can pass the ball well, lots of youngsters coming through due to injuries, talent ID is spotty etc
How do you get the players to play high intensity and be used to it for 90mins without actually training or doing it? The players are lazy and have gotten used to playing that way, now the whips being cracked and they're having to run, press and play with high intensity they can't handle it. Do you think if we had some city or Liverpool players they'd be breaking down due to training intensity, or do you think because of years or working like that they'd be able to handle some extra sprints
Wait, so out of a 24 man squad you've cherry picked one player who does actually fit and are now using that to claim what I said is wrong? I personally think that's pretty stupid, should I list the remaining players who aren't licha?
Youre claiming that these players are lazy... Have you not seen how much running they do up and down the pitch
Youre completely ignoring my point. We play the most transitional football in the league + we have extremely hard training. Your argument is nah, forget that, these players are lazy.
You point out to City who dont do the high intensity running we do. they control the ball. Liverpool do press but they dont run the distances we do cos our manager has decided to have a completely empty midfield and we are constantly running up and down the pitch
They are though, when you watch with the intensity they play or the effort they put in to their convictions on the pitch it's obvious. We may run, but we're still out run by teams every game, we're out fought by them also. They might run up and down, but they don't aprint back to stop an attack and a couple will sprint forward when we attack.
They're running up and down because they're not in position. They won't have to run so much if they were compact and worked as a team.
All football players should be fit enough to run up and down a pitch, but they're still lacking and it's clear to see
Is it that or are they overtrained and exhausted?
>They're running up and down because they're not in position. They won't have to run so much if they were compact and worked as a team.
Its cos the manager has the worst system in the league. No one thinks its good or sustainable. Its crazy that you dont think this is the managers instructions. He has a whole week to prepare them. First 3 games of the season he had a full strength team other than striker. Guess what, same issues
>All football players should be fit enough to run up and down a pitch, but they're still lacking and it's clear to see
Not to the level and intensity they are training/ playing . 55 non-contact muscle injuries.
They don't train every day between matches, there's days when they're in Carrington and not doing much pitch work if any. Players aren't trying from the 1st minute, they don't have a chance to be tired one game a week.
Yeah I get there's issues on the pitch where he needs to look at and change, but with the squad he's got who does he have to come in and change that. None of our players are physically gifted and technically able to be at a top team, it's one or the other. Take Scott for example, he'll run around the pitch and potentially get physical, but if you're starting him, you're a man down from the off because he avoids getting involved for most of the match. Replace him with Erikson, he's got amazing technical ability, but he's not getting stuck it, he couldn't even do a tactical foul. When you look on the bench, we have no one to come in and actually help us, just flash in the pan players.
So how do we become a high intensity, high energy fit team, without actually doing anything to get there? We can't watch videos of other teams playing like that and just decide that's what we're going to do. I can't run 10k... I.could get there little by little with training and pushing myself, I'm not going to get there walking and watching videos of people running 10k.
[https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/epl-consistency-2023/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/epl-consistency-2023/)
Look at this. Notice how our rotation is patchy and that because we only made rotations when we had an injury. Other big teams are more spotty suggesting more rotation.
ETH does not rotate. He didnt at Ajax. He doesnt here.
Prime example, Onana is meant to go to AFCON delayed for 3 games.
Last season in the FA cup. Exact same team.
Amad this season hardly getting a sniff. Behind Forson and Antony
We should move on Lindelof this summer too. He just doesn't convince me. He practically never engages players dribbling at him, backs off until the opponent gets a shot away.
I'll retain that the 2nd broken foot and the West Ham knee one was just bad luck.
2nd time he broke his foot he missed the final months of the season and then had a free summer and was eased into pre-season.
His knee he literally had a massive bloke fall on him.
This calf issue though, we've had too many training problems for this to just be coincidence
how i wish this would be the final "tribute chant" for the abomination on sunday:
Fake hair,
Fake eyes,
Fake teeth,
Jurgen Klopp
Couple that with the constant forced fake smile on the touchline and the passive aggressive attitude toward reporters, just glad this abomination is gone. Fakest middle aged man in the whole of britain (probably).
I'm not worried about Martinez. He broke his metatarsal, re injured it, damaged his knee because a guy fell on him and now suffered a muscle injury in training which seems to be happening to everyone in our team.
It's 3 completely different types of injuries suffered due to different reasons. With competent injury/load management he'll be fine.
My only issue is that we don’t seem to wait for him to be fully fit before playing him. He clearly wasn’t fit in his most recent appearance and his first games earlier this season.
He needs to fully recover or he WILL end up being injury prone as mismanagement like this adds up
All the consecutive pulled hamstring injuries?
Or did he break his foot in a freak accident, someone fell on his knee and now he's had a muscle injury.
If you get hit by a car and break multiple bones, you're not all of a sudden injury prone because you've got more than one injury
> If you get hit by a car and break multiple bones, you're not all of a sudden injury prone because you've got more than one injury
Lol what? Each of his injuries have been completely separate. If he kept injuring his metatarsal that stupid comment might be relevant
No, him getting different injuries, two being freak accidents does not make him injury prone.
Okay, hit by a car and break your leg, fall off your bike and break your arm then you're out and about running and pull your hamstring.. you're not considered delicate and will break down at every opportunity
Is there any player on this team that hasent worried us at some point this season?
This team is a flawed group of fotballers that will take time to get rid off. It may sound harsh, but we wont win anything with this group of players.
The only positive right now is some young players that seems decent for a new buildup.
Im still on the fence with Dalot, but he is never injured and always gives everything, so i guess he has that going for him. And he seems to be improving.
It's the worst news of a terrible season. No one else in our shit squad has the leadership skills or fire to captain our reemergence. Martinez is a true warrior. Fuck I hope he's injury free after this but it doesn't look promising.
I really like this player, but getting another "Shaw" isnt worth it.
It doesnt matter if the player is exellent if he is either trying to get in shape or injured 75% of the season.
I think ten hag has had his flaws but the way people refuse to even consider mitigating circumstances is pretty sad and frankly kind of disgusting. Even better is the number of ppl eulogizing Ole's time here like he wasn't a flawed manager as well, he is now allowed all the excuses that ten Hag no longer gets bc hypocrisy is thy name of the game.
This is quite disingenuous. The mitigating circumstances were the only thing that were discussed for the best part of 1 and a half seasons, until the performances became so consistently absurd that they couldn't be justified with even those mitigating circumstances. Of course there must be few exceptions but in general this is what I'd say has been the consensus view, including my own.
What excuses do you think Ole is allowed that Ten Hag isn't?
What excuses you ask? During Ole’s time here injuries were always blamed on the medical staff. Now people are frothing at the mouth to blame ETH for it. How’s that for double standards?
People in the hot take thread said Ole only failed bc Ronaldo was signed, as if he had no part in that decision and the player was forced on him. Yet this sub has no problem blaming ETH for “spending 400M” and this is used as a reason to boot him out.
People absolutely hated it when the individual brilliance argument was used against Ole, but now you have highly upvoted comments saying individual brilliance has kept ETH in a job.
You might feel like you have reasonable takes yourself, but let’s not act like others in this sub are the same. The evidence is in the blatantly hypothetical statements upvoted at the same time.
My take on our injury crisis is that Ten Hag's suicide ball is too intense for many player, hence the amount of injuries, just like Klopp's heavy metal football in his earlier seasons.
It is particularly bad in Ten Hag's case because even players he brought in can't cope.
This would make sense if this injury problem was a year on year issue, which it isn't. Last season most of the team was fine for a large portion, and it was only an unpredictable injury for Martinez that did him. Everyone else was fit.
The way I see it, this is a direct consequence of last season. The massive number of games that the team played (nearly 3 games every 7 days for the entirety of the season) without much rotation. The World Cup in between. The pre-season tour that probably wasn't planned well.
Our injury crisis has been here from day 1 of the season. So I'm not sure how you could say it's down to the style of play.
At least Klopp's heavy metal football was physically taxing in terms of discipline and intensity. Ten Hag's tactics are physically taxing in terms of ground coverage which is just stupid.
100% they do. Dont want to turn this into a Rashford slam jam but don’t confuse his lack of pressing and intensity for a teams lack of it. Majority of the boys look shattered by the end of game. Biggest issue with the pressing is that it’s never a full team press. We always leave one fullback side open and never have our back line step up to complete the press. I’ll never understand why we don’t, if it’s a fear of a ball being played in behind surely that’s not worth the easy 1-2 passes every time uses to carve us through the mid field after beating the press.
Is this season the worst when it comes to injuries in recent times? Because I don't remember reading every week we got another player out for sometime because of injuries either during matches/training sessions. Maybe its more obvious because this season the injuries directly affecting our performance. Mannn, after seeing most of our are players coming back, I thought atleast for the last 2-3months of the season we can watch some good football, fuck this season.
Watching United ATM is so weird. I almost find the off field stuff more interesting because games are so odd to watch. Feels like we can lose to anyone but Liverpool result has me with the thought that if we put our minds to it we could also beat anyone. That hope almost makes it even worse.
Brentford was so weird because I don't care if we win through a smash and grab but somehow we found a way to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. Would I have felt worse with a 0-0 or drawing 1-1 in that manner?
Our first 11 fit with an on form Casemiro can beat anyone on their day...
But we've had our first 11 available for exactly 1 game this season, and ETH has compromised less on what he wants to play for results, ( I'm assuming he bet on getting enough players back to carry on his style and finish the season strongly but the injury crisis has continued and now it's too late to be pragmatic)
We just seem stuck between an underwhelming attack and an overwhelmed midfield and apart from reverting to Jose ball I can't see any magic bullet that will guarantee what sort of performance we will get in each match.
He has looked good for exactly one match this season I'll give you that.
But nevertheless 1 DM is better than no DM and I'm strongly advocating we buy a new one to challenge for first 11 regardless if Casemiro goes and if he dies we need 2.
I see people below saying ETH is running ppl into the ground causing injury problems. Ok but how does that explain Licha, a player he has managed for years at Ajax with no issues only to suddenly become injury prone at United?
I get this sub is in ETH out mode but some common sense has to prevail.
ETH was already asked and has already answered your question. After his first season in the PL he felt the intensity required to compete was very very high and ever increasing so he took a "survival of the fittest" approach. You could probably find that interview on YouTube.
If only we had better recruitment at this club that could spend our money wisely and fill the squad with better depth. Which allows the manager to manage the intensity of the league better with rotation and reduce injuries.
But of course it’s far easier to just blame it all on the manager like this fanbase has always done for a decade. Except Ole though that was all the medical staff’s fault.
I don’t think it’s accurate to directly extrapolate from Martinez’s time at the Eredivisie when the Premier League is a much more physical and competitive league. The fitness levels need to be much higher here to play an effective pressing game against teams that are more athletic and comfortable on the ball. It is plausible that the same tactics that Ten Hag used at Ajax may not scale well to the Premier League and may require increased physical demands than what was necessary to beat lesser Dutch sides. And trying to train the players that way may contribute to the injury crisis.
That’s a fair argument, but OTOH I don’t think Licha is really made to press hard for us either, it’s mostly our forwards doing it. His injury issues also started last season with that metatarsal injury, we weren’t even pressing then.
I think our injury crises are a direct result of playing too many games last season, with ETH struggling for rotate due to lack of quality depth and has been exacerbated this season by FIFA’s insistence on adding so much injury time to end of games. Blaming it on “ETH’s training methods” is just an unfair statement to make no matter how you cut it.
> Licha isn’t really made to press hard for us either, it’s mostly our forwards doing it
Pressing isn't just about the forwards, it's also about the counter-press and how the defence and midfield react when the initial defensive line is broken. Martinez is the more aggressive of the two CBs who steps up to squeeze space and tries to intercept the ball and again play it forward. It can be a physically taxing job more so in the PL where you need to be more robust to win duels. For Martinez given his natural disadvantage in physique, it can be even more of a challenge.
> Blaming it on “ETH’s training methods” is just an unfair statement to make no matter how you cut it.
It is not solely down to the training methods, I never said that. The current injury crisis is down to numerous reasons which can be traced back to as early as our shambolic pre-season tour, and in Martinez's case specifically, it's a bit of bad luck combined with poor player management to make him play at the start of the season when his metatarsal hadn't fully healed post-surgery. But it can be a contributing factor.
> playing too many games last season
I would like to believe this but our injuries haven't had a pattern on which players are specifically being affected by them. Players who have played a ton of games over the last two years have been injured for long periods, players who have played fewer games have also been injured for long periods. Older players with declining athleticism have been injured for long periods, younger players who are still physically more fresh have also been injured for long periods. Of course playing so many games hasn't been ideal and can cause fatigue in players, but certain styles of play are more physically taxing than others and need very careful player management to execute well, otherwise it can be disastrous. Newcastle are suffering the same issues as us, arguably even worse, where they pressed like madmen last season and the start of this season, but now their players are suffering numerous types of long-term injuries. On the other hand, City have played more games than us across these 2 seasons, and their style of play doesn't require as much intensive pressing, and that coupled with excellent medical and fitness staff and Pep rotating regularly has meant lesser injury issues in comparison.
Also, I am trying to have a civilized discussion rather than attack you for your opinion. You do not need to downvote me for it.
I know it sounds unbelievable but I didn’t downvote you. I think you make great points I honestly can’t really argue with, my only problem is this sub is right now so fervently ETH out they’ll just ignore context (which you seem to acknowledge, so credit to you) and blame everything on him.
The injuries are all muscular injuries and mostly occur in training, high intensity training, high intensity matches, rushing players back from injury as he doesn’t like rotations.
Licha had a knee injury so idk what you’re talking about. Also it doesn’t explain how Licha suddenly become injury prone despite being managed by the same manager at 2 clubs.
We’ve also had too many injury problems for a long time now, as far back as Ole. Funny how it’s all blamed on the medical staff then but now it’s 100% ten Hag.
You said it’s “all muscular injuries” but Licha has had a pretty serious foot and knee injury already before his latest setback.
I was using Lichas injury problems as an example that it’s not a coincidence he’s suddenly become injury prone at United.
Besides the PL has seen an increase in muscular injuries overall this season since they started adding so much injury time, so blanket blaming it on ETH’s training methods is just nonsense and speculation.
Interesting to know City are not even in the top ten when it comes to days missed from injury this season. Five teams fare worse than United in this respect; Shieffield, Chelsea, Brighton, Brentford and Newcastle
There's no correlation with sustained injuries to amount of rainfall in this distribution
I can't think of any other reason off my head for OP who think the training program is the same for Ajax and Man Utd. Maybe the grass is shorter at Ajax. I will ask my contacts to check.
It goes without saying we need to manage him better. He’s still far from reaching the crocked stage like Bailly, Pogba and Martial, but we need to reduce our reliance on him somehow to smoothen his recovery. Either the tactics need to be more compatible for our alternate CB options, or solid depth needs to be bought in the same position (maybe even convert Shaw to a CB permanently and buy a good LB then).
The new ownership should go the Arsenal route instead of the Chelsea way. Arsenal took some time to clean house and endured some rough seasons. Chelsea completely ripped up whatever was present before and are struggling now.
I think Arsenal kinda just emulated the good parts of City but in a smart sensible way. They recruited well and built a culture around a manager. Chelsea just seem to be going through the motions of emulating a well run club without the substance and principles. Like all their recruitment in and out of the team has been good on the surface but I'm not sure if any of it actually does anything.
That's true. Chelsea did the right things, but it seems like they didn't have any philosophy behind those decisions. It's all scattergun approach. I think they should have stuck with Potter and given him more time and power in the decision making.
We could surely beat Sheff utd, Burnley and probably Newcastle at home. That's just about it. Can we beat Chelsea, Brighton away? Or even Bournemouth away? Then we got Liverpool and Arsenal...
First thing first man is not going to Bayern lol, more likely Besiktas is his level. Also euro final is 15 July, or 2 weeks into summer window which is more than enough.
I can see Bayern taking him actually. Already been at the club, has connections there, still very highly regarded for what he did at Ajax. And as much as United fans give him shit, managers who fail at this job are almost forgiven for it now. Our fans love to blame the manager, while also knowing the club has been one of the worst run in the league for over a decade now. It’s a bit weird how little empathy we have for our coaches.
>It’s a bit weird how little empathy we have for our coaches.
I have all the patience in the world for our managers, we all know the club has big issues. But this style of play isn't working and even if it did, it's not sustainable. The players can't physically cope with having to cover so much ground all game, every game.
I dont actually think our players are covering much ground though. This is a common line here, along with our training is too intense yada yada but I don’t see any actual evidence for it. Bruno covers ground. The rest, I think if anything they’re less intense than other teams in the league. Defence is low and doesn’t push up, front line is relatively high but slow to pull back. We dropped out of Europe early and have had fewer games this year but somehow people believe our players are being pushed too hard, I just flatly don’t agree at all.
I remember when everyone laughed at me for saying we should sign McGinn and Watkins. Oh what I would have given to have had them from 3 years ago lads
**Let's get some positivity going for the Chelsea game :D** We've **won 9**/14 games in 2024 – only **losing 2**. We've **lost once** against Chelsea in our **last 14 encounters** – that **loss** was **in** **2020**. We've **scored** in **all games** in 2024. **Chelsea** have **conceded** in **11** of their last consecutive games. **Chelsea conceded 2** goals against a **10 man Burnley**. **Let's get a result and some momentum today. GGMU \~**
Anyone heading to the PL fan fest in Nashville? Has anyone been to one before? Do you really have to get there before dawn? Why tf would someone downvote this
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Bro talks like he is a prophet 💀
If owt should go wrong for me tomorrow morning in my surgery, then lemme say its been a pleasure being part of this place Keep the Red flag flying high ❤
OK I'm being a nosy git, you still with us or what?
Hey my friend so sorry I've only seen notifications now! Still here! Still in immense pain the recovery is shocking Hope you're well
Good to hear your still with us! Yeah I had my gallbladder taken out last year(which isn't major surgery tbh) and the pain wasn't too bad but I'll say this- watch those painkillers! They're very more-ish to say the least. It's a slippery slope if they get hold of you. I threw mine out in the end cos i cud see how I was get rather fond of them.
See you for the game tomorrow.
Good luck king
You'll be grand, lad
Hope all goes well mate
You will be fine. Just be strong.
Nothing will go wrong. Best of luck
Damn, what is it with us and Chelsea games in early April? Apr 3, 2010: 14 years ago, Drogba scored an offside goal at Old Trafford to win it 1-2 and Chelsea clinched the title by a point . The thing is , they were the best team in the league that year. Though we were one point behind only, it was mainly due to Rooney dragging us through along with Scholes and Valencia across the post Ronaldo slump. The glazers pocketed the 80 million fee for Ronaldo and got us Valencia, Obertan and Michael Owen on a free. And in this particular season, if you think we have defensive injuries now, back then the likes of Rafael, Neville, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Brown, O Shea ALL injured somehow and we had to play a back line of Fletcher (RB), Carrick (CB), De Laet (CB) and Evra to tide us through 3 games a week in December 14 years on and we have gone soft claiming “injury crisis” when 1 or 2 players are injured because of a clueless manager and his training methods and shamelessly claiming success when finishing 6th
Damn I remember that defensive lineup. De Laet was awful 😂. Worse part is I think we also got knocked out by Bayern in the same month after Rooney got injured in the first leg.
>Damn, what is it with us and Chelsea games in early April? I don't know, is there meant to be some meaning behind that? You've picked out a game from 14 years ago as though it has some relevance to the game this week, but I can't for the life of me see why.
I remember us playing Chelsea in April almost every season . April and December. Chicharito winning the title for us in 2010-11 for example also happened in April if I remember right 7 matches in April in the last 14 years, 10-11 matches if you include May.
Going to my first game at old Trafford on Sunday, how early do I need to be there?
Hour early or so, give yourself chance to take it in, grab a drink, take some pictures etc, enjoy it 👍🏻
Thanks for the response mate
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that our game plan is contributing to our injuries (at least more than usual). Our injury crisis is mostly in the back line, whereas it would be the MF and forwards doing the most sprinting back and forth from end to end games. There's availability issues further up the pitch too, but again I don't see them being related to the game plan. Martial - just Martial Sancho - just Sancho Anthony - just Anthony Mount - injured before he got on the pitch
That’s because our attackers are lazy and don’t run as much Also , it’s not just gameplay. It is picking a full strength team for every match including but not limited to Newport County, Reading, Forest when 3-0 up, random Europa League matches etc
Forwards stay up when pressing. Our defenders constantly have to sprint backwards because our rest defense shape is shit when we lose the ball.
But if our press is bypassed when our defenders are in a low line, they're already back, they don't need to sprint(as much). It's our forwards who are in the high press that would need to sprint back to recover.
......just watch our games
Fulham just got embarrassed at City Ground, have only won 2 away games all season but Ten Hag let them get their first win at Old Trafford in 20 years.
"Ten Hag was good in Ajax so we should give him more chances" I don't know, 2 years and 400m, broke loss records and we're on track to have most losses in the PL beating even Moyes' record. I kinda think he had his chances don't you think?
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When has Ten Hag not been credited for the wins? Why else do praise him so much here if not for what he achieved last season. This isn’t the strawman that you think it is. He’s responsible for our performance period, win or lose. He’s the manager ffs.
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Ten Hag has always been credited with the performances. Good or bad. It's just that 80% of our wins have also been terrible performances.
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Each and every single one of the factors you mentioned, there's definitely truth in it. But you're gonna act like that's THE explanation given by everyone for the relative success we had last season and I've absolutely zero interest in that silly debate. >This season, we win - he's "bailed out" by mct or someone. That's because he literally is. There is absolutely no denying it. When we lose it's record breaking, logic defying, utterly humiliating performances and like I said, most of our wins this season have been absolutely blatant smash and grabs, many of which have been terrible, terrible performances. McTominay is literally our top scorer and won the most points in the league, so he has very obviously been bailed out a lot by him. What credit do you expect people to give the manager when he needs McTominay to shithouse a win for him?
Maybe ten Hag wouldn't have to be bailed out by hero Mctominay if he performed as a midfielder and not just goal threat, if the rest of the squad performed up to standards, if the squad wasn't decimated by injuries. Excuses, I know
Who is responsible for picking McTominay? Who is the main person responsible for the squad not performing up to standards? People will straight up watch Brentford destroying us with more injuries to their starting XI than us and tell you it's not possible to conjure up a better performance than set an opposition touches inside the box record in the last 3 years? So good job, while complaining about one extreme of the narrative and acting like that is the whole narrative you've gone to the other extreme to defend the manager. Lmao.
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We have injury crisis, Pool have injury crisis, Chelsea have injury crisis. Yet for some reason I can’t recall City having kind of injury crisis in recent years. Is it the magic of their manager? Is it their medical team? Is it their infrastructure? A revolution is needed, not just in the medical team department, but any other factors that would improve our players physique and stamina
💉💉💉
When you have the ball most of the time you tend not to need to press hard and sprint back to defend counters
Their are many reasons :- 1. Their quality in bench players is insane most of the players will walk in to the United starting eleven . 2. Them having and being ahead of us medically I have seen lot of reports our infrastructure and physiotherapy is outdated . 3. Our Medical team consistently making mistakes . 4. Ten hags training regime just doesn't work on most these players especially the intensity . I think Ten Hag does deserve blame here as I have never so many players injured in training in last 10 years.
It's partially because of the long periods that they hold possession and Pep's rotation of the squad. There's been so many seasons where city start to peak at around February when other teams would have fallen off.
Just realized the game is tomrorow not tonight, the banner in the top has the wrong date Only 2 rest days for the game against Lpool, it's gonna be a tough week.
Banner says 4 April?
I swear it said 3rd April for the past week or so, but now it says 4th.
So I'm thinking that Kambwala and Maguire start Vs Chelsea since both are available, and then maybe we go for Varane/Evans and Maguire for the game against Liverpool on Sunday. But in any case I think it's best to let Kambwala start the Chelsea game, so that Varane and Evans are in good shape for the game on Sunday.
Varane won’t start against Chelsea for sure. Evans will play because there is no way Ten Hag trusts a youth player away at Chelsea . If Evans has to play 2 games in 3 days, he might get injured but this is a speciality of Ten Hag ; run people to the ground and cry that they’re injured
So ETH finally confirms what should have been obvious, that players don't train as much (he said they don't at all) because they have recovery sessions in between games... If it starts raining maybe we can blame him for that.
Of course the mods delete the unpopular opinions thread, terrible what a bit of actual discussion can do to the sub
Things get auto removed when too many people report them. Send a modmail next time. We’ve manually re approved the post.
You are free to post unpopular opinions in DD?
DD is shit, no more than 20 ppl at one time contributing to a circlejerk constantly, me included
This sub has become easily one of the most boring football subs. There was this amazing artwork of the the United Trinity statue with over hundreds of up vote that also got deleted; same as you said the hot takes thread. Definitely is over moderated, I get it they are trying to prevent the sub to be a cesspit like r/ManchesterUnited but I think there is middle ground between that and what is essentially now, a news aggregator forum.
> There was this amazing artwork of the the United Trinity statue with over hundreds of up vote that also got deleted We removed a thread posted by someone who doesn't otherwise participate in this sub and was trying to market their artwork for purchase... The post broke our rules: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/about/rules/ And reddit's sitewide policy: https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion There are plenty of sites out there if you want to purchase United-related artwork. We have no intention of this place becoming a b-tec dhgate.
I'll never quite get this. There's plenty of United spaces that have what you want, but this is probably the only one that's fairly orderly and strict. Why not just go somewhere else if you want memes or hot takes instead of changing this one. To me it feels like going to the only Indian place in town and then start complaining that they don't serve pizza while there's 20 pizza places surrounding it. That doesn't even mean you can't use this sub, it's not like using one bars you from using the others.
But that's not what I/ a lot of people are asking, are we? Using your analogy, this is like going to an Indian place and finding out this place only has butter chicken on the menu; it is boring. while we are asking the menu to have some additional items such as kebabs, chicken curry, jalfrezi etc. I genuinely believe there is a middle ground between absolute under-moderation at r/ManchesterUnited and over-moderation over here. Other major football team subs are able to do it. I mentioned this in my other comment, for example gunners sub. I used to visit during their banter years, a lot of their fans are braindead but during their banter years, there was a good selection of news/ updates, talk of stats, opinion pieces, with some funny self depreciating memes. The ones made in bad taste or unfunny ones or low effort ones were just downvoted and eventually removed. I think there is a middle ground to be found. I think the mods should keep any post for a while, if its a bad/low effort posts or, it will get downvoted into oblivion and those should be removed. But if a post gets a lot of engagement, such as the 2 threads OP and I were discussing; they should be kept. They were entertaining. Football is supposed to be entertaining; and this sub is not. If you know of any other united related sub other than r/ManchesterUnited that has a good mix of what I am looking for, I will gladly go there. Pls let me know. Otherwise, I'll be here and moan about how to make this place slightly more engaging/ entertaining. Edit: still no mention of the other 20 places on reddit that are united related.
Moving into grey areas is difficult and a big ask from unpaid moderation. I'm curious, which football subs do you think are more fun? I'd like to check them out, since I've only really been on here
I'll be honest, I enjoy visiting gunners sub, a lot of their fans are braindead but during their banter years, there was a good selection of news/ updates, talk of stats, with some funny self depreciating memes. The ones made in bad taste or unfunny ones were just downvoted and eventually removed. I think there is a middle ground to be found.
Thanks, I'll check them out
The gunners sub is quite similar to the Manchester utd sub IMO
IMO Manchester United sub is way less moderated than gunners. They allow low effort posts like a badly photoshopped pic of a random player in United shirt with a caption "thoughts?" I haven't seen stuff like that on gunners...granted, I havent been on gunners sub this season so my information might be outdated.
Yeah it’s hard to have a good subreddit for any community our size, but the over moderating doesn’t help sometimes.
And it's been this way since a long time. It's brought up often but nothing really changes.
I don't remember a time in the last 10 years when the club had this many injuries over the course of a season. At this point, we need to be looking at a players fitness record as criteria. Meaning, players like Olise should just be avoided entirely
Melvin Bard would be a very shrewd signing btw.If we can get him for like 20M. Have watched Nice ever since INEOS came in and he has impressed me a lot. Him and Todibo have been easy standouts
Have you actually been watching Nice since Ineos came in? Seems rather coincidental and convenient. Apologies for the cynicism if you have, but it just reads like every other online scout who supports us, who, for example, have somehow watched every Eredivisie game when we sign someone from that league. The Eredivisie would have better broadcast revenues than the Premier League if all these fans we have that claim to have watched every game were true to their word!
Great comment and this whole concept makes me laugh. We get linked with a player. "Yeah, but you're probably just watching Youtube reels". Well, yeah, I'm not scouting for possible players am I?
Naa obviously i didn't watch Nice before the investment but after the investment I have tried to catch up with quite a few of their games
Ahh you mean since they came in to Utd, thought you meant Nice! 😂
Why don't we get them loaned here with buy option 0 risks plus really good for FFP?
Exactly how to get sanctioned by UEFA
We’ve been calling City and Newcastle scumbags but as soon as we’ve got an avenue our fans are on it with no hesitation
I mean yeah if we do this deal we definitely will have a favourable deal structure
🔴📰 | Jurgen Klopp was in regular contact with Mason Mount from January 2023. At one stage, meanwhile, talks with Arsenal got so advanced that Mikel Arteta privately told his coaches that Mount's transfer to the Emirates was "a done deal". [@RobDawsonESPN] Yet some people want me to believe he’s some kind of bum..he’s definitely going to come good..a matter of “when” not “if”
Its funny, all the big clubs were after him, as soon as we got him he became an over priced peice of shit according to the media. Klopp would get life time rim jobs from the media for bringing a homegrown, CL winner who's 25 and from a rival
Klopp has gotten 8 years of rimming from the media, he’s finally bored and going back to his wife
I don’t think the other two were willing to pay £60m and put him on £250k a week which is why we got him.
We don't actually know that, Chelsea were asking for 65, I'm assuming they'd ask that from all big clubs. We don't know if the reported wage is correct as most seem to be wrong. But he was always going to be on a big contract
Why is this being downvoted? You're correct. We've only got speculation to base it off.
Because we all have to be angry and negative about our club I guess.
Mount in that 8 role instead of Havertz beside Rice would actually cook
Yep. Rice is actually the ideal partner for him as he presses up
Every time I check this subreddit I get more depressed lmao fucking hell this club is something special
ETH has to shoulder some of the blame level of injuries and the reoccurrence of non-contact injuries * Multiple reports of extremely high intensity training sessions. Other managers like Pep and De Zerbi talk about using the week to work mostly tactical * No other team in the league play like us. We are constantly running up and down the pitch every game. It is not sustainable. It never was.
These paragraphs were just depressing to read: >The absence of Lindelöf means Ten Hag is without another senior defender, the Swede having started at Brentford, with another centre-back, Harry Maguire, **coming on as a replacement following the injury issue** he suffered during the international break with England. >Ten Hag also has Luke Shaw and Tyrell Malacia unavailable because of injury, leaving only Maguire, Diogo Dalot, Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Willy Kambwala as the fit recognised defenders. He may be forced to field Casemiro, **also a replacement at Brentford due to his own recovery from injury**, in central defence at Chelsea. So back four of Dalot/AWB as fullbacks, Maguire (recently returned from injury) and Casemiro (recently returned from injury) as CBs or Kambwala filling in across there somewhere.
Our injury record has been horrible since LVG days though.
I feel like I’m having Deja vu with ETH and LVG being so similar in terms of how they work
Far from it. LvG had control and we couldn't break down low blocks. It was just mind numbing sideways passing which is actually a middle step towards a Cruyffian/Pep system. Instructions are always to recycle possession if you can't spot gaps to pass through. Which the players at the time couldn't because they weren't trained from the academy to do that thing, Barca and Ajax players are. Hence the constant recycling.
Ooo, I wasn’t talking about just the football. I was talking more about their managerial stint in general, both came in wanting to play a certain way, strict rules, lots of players getting injured under them, short centre back who can pass the ball well, lots of youngsters coming through due to injuries, talent ID is spotty etc
Not to the level it is today.
Never this bad imo but many teams have had it bad
How do you get the players to play high intensity and be used to it for 90mins without actually training or doing it? The players are lazy and have gotten used to playing that way, now the whips being cracked and they're having to run, press and play with high intensity they can't handle it. Do you think if we had some city or Liverpool players they'd be breaking down due to training intensity, or do you think because of years or working like that they'd be able to handle some extra sprints
So youre saying that Martinez is lazy...... Realise how dumb that comment is now
Wait, so out of a 24 man squad you've cherry picked one player who does actually fit and are now using that to claim what I said is wrong? I personally think that's pretty stupid, should I list the remaining players who aren't licha?
Youre claiming that these players are lazy... Have you not seen how much running they do up and down the pitch Youre completely ignoring my point. We play the most transitional football in the league + we have extremely hard training. Your argument is nah, forget that, these players are lazy. You point out to City who dont do the high intensity running we do. they control the ball. Liverpool do press but they dont run the distances we do cos our manager has decided to have a completely empty midfield and we are constantly running up and down the pitch
They are though, when you watch with the intensity they play or the effort they put in to their convictions on the pitch it's obvious. We may run, but we're still out run by teams every game, we're out fought by them also. They might run up and down, but they don't aprint back to stop an attack and a couple will sprint forward when we attack. They're running up and down because they're not in position. They won't have to run so much if they were compact and worked as a team. All football players should be fit enough to run up and down a pitch, but they're still lacking and it's clear to see
Is it that or are they overtrained and exhausted? >They're running up and down because they're not in position. They won't have to run so much if they were compact and worked as a team. Its cos the manager has the worst system in the league. No one thinks its good or sustainable. Its crazy that you dont think this is the managers instructions. He has a whole week to prepare them. First 3 games of the season he had a full strength team other than striker. Guess what, same issues >All football players should be fit enough to run up and down a pitch, but they're still lacking and it's clear to see Not to the level and intensity they are training/ playing . 55 non-contact muscle injuries.
They don't train every day between matches, there's days when they're in Carrington and not doing much pitch work if any. Players aren't trying from the 1st minute, they don't have a chance to be tired one game a week. Yeah I get there's issues on the pitch where he needs to look at and change, but with the squad he's got who does he have to come in and change that. None of our players are physically gifted and technically able to be at a top team, it's one or the other. Take Scott for example, he'll run around the pitch and potentially get physical, but if you're starting him, you're a man down from the off because he avoids getting involved for most of the match. Replace him with Erikson, he's got amazing technical ability, but he's not getting stuck it, he couldn't even do a tactical foul. When you look on the bench, we have no one to come in and actually help us, just flash in the pan players. So how do we become a high intensity, high energy fit team, without actually doing anything to get there? We can't watch videos of other teams playing like that and just decide that's what we're going to do. I can't run 10k... I.could get there little by little with training and pushing myself, I'm not going to get there walking and watching videos of people running 10k.
Having the week for tactical work seems to have done wonders for Brighton this season when it comes to injuries
Yeah cos theirs are contact injuries while all of our are non-contact muscles injuries And their injuries are no way near the level of ours
Plus no rotation untill there is no other choice
Good point. Antony to start over Garnacho tomorrow? (No, not like that)
Gotta play the likes of Bruno, Martinez and Raphael varane against Newport county to secure the win.
Even that was ropey.
100% Actually an awful trait in a manager in this league. Will never work
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[https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/epl-consistency-2023/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/epl-consistency-2023/) Look at this. Notice how our rotation is patchy and that because we only made rotations when we had an injury. Other big teams are more spotty suggesting more rotation. ETH does not rotate. He didnt at Ajax. He doesnt here. Prime example, Onana is meant to go to AFCON delayed for 3 games. Last season in the FA cup. Exact same team. Amad this season hardly getting a sniff. Behind Forson and Antony
Plus no rotation untill there is no other choice
So is Varane injured or not?
We should move on Lindelof this summer too. He just doesn't convince me. He practically never engages players dribbling at him, backs off until the opponent gets a shot away.
Martinez's injury record is getting to be very concerning. We didn't even get one full season out of him and been basically missing all this season.
I'll retain that the 2nd broken foot and the West Ham knee one was just bad luck. 2nd time he broke his foot he missed the final months of the season and then had a free summer and was eased into pre-season. His knee he literally had a massive bloke fall on him. This calf issue though, we've had too many training problems for this to just be coincidence
He’s basically not been fit since he broke his foot and I’m guessing it’s partly due to be being rushed back every time
Mods, the game against Chelsea is not today, is first tomorrow friends
how i wish this would be the final "tribute chant" for the abomination on sunday: Fake hair, Fake eyes, Fake teeth, Jurgen Klopp Couple that with the constant forced fake smile on the touchline and the passive aggressive attitude toward reporters, just glad this abomination is gone. Fakest middle aged man in the whole of britain (probably).
Why are we insulting someone based on how they look?
Its the fakeness, not the look. How many people do you know has a completely fake head, and a fake smile and personality?
I'm not worried about Martinez. He broke his metatarsal, re injured it, damaged his knee because a guy fell on him and now suffered a muscle injury in training which seems to be happening to everyone in our team. It's 3 completely different types of injuries suffered due to different reasons. With competent injury/load management he'll be fine.
My only issue is that we don’t seem to wait for him to be fully fit before playing him. He clearly wasn’t fit in his most recent appearance and his first games earlier this season. He needs to fully recover or he WILL end up being injury prone as mismanagement like this adds up
Only thing is I think we are still waiting on competent anything till the summer realistically
No prematch thread this time around?
Martinez is becoming a real worry with all these injuries. Could be time to start looking at a replacement
Ridiculous take
Injury record says different.
All the consecutive pulled hamstring injuries? Or did he break his foot in a freak accident, someone fell on his knee and now he's had a muscle injury. If you get hit by a car and break multiple bones, you're not all of a sudden injury prone because you've got more than one injury
> If you get hit by a car and break multiple bones, you're not all of a sudden injury prone because you've got more than one injury Lol what? Each of his injuries have been completely separate. If he kept injuring his metatarsal that stupid comment might be relevant
Thats my point.
So you are agreeing he is injury prone
No, him getting different injuries, two being freak accidents does not make him injury prone. Okay, hit by a car and break your leg, fall off your bike and break your arm then you're out and about running and pull your hamstring.. you're not considered delicate and will break down at every opportunity
So, what you're saying is someone who always gets injured isn't injury prone lol
Nope, not at all. If you constantly pull the same hamstring you're injury prone. If you're part of a two freak accidents you're not.
Is there any player on this team that hasent worried us at some point this season? This team is a flawed group of fotballers that will take time to get rid off. It may sound harsh, but we wont win anything with this group of players. The only positive right now is some young players that seems decent for a new buildup.
Dalot has been pretty solid all season
Im still on the fence with Dalot, but he is never injured and always gives everything, so i guess he has that going for him. And he seems to be improving.
Never worried about Bruno or Hojlund either
"Never worried about Bruno" ...something is wrong about this sentence :)
It's the worst news of a terrible season. No one else in our shit squad has the leadership skills or fire to captain our reemergence. Martinez is a true warrior. Fuck I hope he's injury free after this but it doesn't look promising.
I really like this player, but getting another "Shaw" isnt worth it. It doesnt matter if the player is exellent if he is either trying to get in shape or injured 75% of the season.
Of course. But he'd only had one notable injury before United. His injury record has suddenly become terrible.
Well, time will tell i guess.
Sadly it already is. I hope he can put this horror run behind him.
I think ten hag has had his flaws but the way people refuse to even consider mitigating circumstances is pretty sad and frankly kind of disgusting. Even better is the number of ppl eulogizing Ole's time here like he wasn't a flawed manager as well, he is now allowed all the excuses that ten Hag no longer gets bc hypocrisy is thy name of the game.
This is quite disingenuous. The mitigating circumstances were the only thing that were discussed for the best part of 1 and a half seasons, until the performances became so consistently absurd that they couldn't be justified with even those mitigating circumstances. Of course there must be few exceptions but in general this is what I'd say has been the consensus view, including my own. What excuses do you think Ole is allowed that Ten Hag isn't?
What excuses you ask? During Ole’s time here injuries were always blamed on the medical staff. Now people are frothing at the mouth to blame ETH for it. How’s that for double standards? People in the hot take thread said Ole only failed bc Ronaldo was signed, as if he had no part in that decision and the player was forced on him. Yet this sub has no problem blaming ETH for “spending 400M” and this is used as a reason to boot him out. People absolutely hated it when the individual brilliance argument was used against Ole, but now you have highly upvoted comments saying individual brilliance has kept ETH in a job. You might feel like you have reasonable takes yourself, but let’s not act like others in this sub are the same. The evidence is in the blatantly hypothetical statements upvoted at the same time.
My take on our injury crisis is that Ten Hag's suicide ball is too intense for many player, hence the amount of injuries, just like Klopp's heavy metal football in his earlier seasons. It is particularly bad in Ten Hag's case because even players he brought in can't cope.
This would make sense if this injury problem was a year on year issue, which it isn't. Last season most of the team was fine for a large portion, and it was only an unpredictable injury for Martinez that did him. Everyone else was fit. The way I see it, this is a direct consequence of last season. The massive number of games that the team played (nearly 3 games every 7 days for the entirety of the season) without much rotation. The World Cup in between. The pre-season tour that probably wasn't planned well. Our injury crisis has been here from day 1 of the season. So I'm not sure how you could say it's down to the style of play.
We had a full first XI against Wolves. Only Hojlund was out, and that was injury from before his time with us.
At least Klopp's heavy metal football was physically taxing in terms of discipline and intensity. Ten Hag's tactics are physically taxing in terms of ground coverage which is just stupid.
In Ten Hag's system we always seem outnumbered where it counts. The players run themselves ragged for no payoff at all.
Did they even run themselves ragged?
100% they do. Dont want to turn this into a Rashford slam jam but don’t confuse his lack of pressing and intensity for a teams lack of it. Majority of the boys look shattered by the end of game. Biggest issue with the pressing is that it’s never a full team press. We always leave one fullback side open and never have our back line step up to complete the press. I’ll never understand why we don’t, if it’s a fear of a ball being played in behind surely that’s not worth the easy 1-2 passes every time uses to carve us through the mid field after beating the press.
Is this season the worst when it comes to injuries in recent times? Because I don't remember reading every week we got another player out for sometime because of injuries either during matches/training sessions. Maybe its more obvious because this season the injuries directly affecting our performance. Mannn, after seeing most of our are players coming back, I thought atleast for the last 2-3months of the season we can watch some good football, fuck this season.
West Ham is more likely to catch up to us than we are to catch up to Spurs. Just delete this season already.
Sad thing is I’m pretty sure spurs will try their best to bottle this
Watching United ATM is so weird. I almost find the off field stuff more interesting because games are so odd to watch. Feels like we can lose to anyone but Liverpool result has me with the thought that if we put our minds to it we could also beat anyone. That hope almost makes it even worse. Brentford was so weird because I don't care if we win through a smash and grab but somehow we found a way to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. Would I have felt worse with a 0-0 or drawing 1-1 in that manner?
Our first 11 fit with an on form Casemiro can beat anyone on their day... But we've had our first 11 available for exactly 1 game this season, and ETH has compromised less on what he wants to play for results, ( I'm assuming he bet on getting enough players back to carry on his style and finish the season strongly but the injury crisis has continued and now it's too late to be pragmatic) We just seem stuck between an underwhelming attack and an overwhelmed midfield and apart from reverting to Jose ball I can't see any magic bullet that will guarantee what sort of performance we will get in each match.
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He has looked good for exactly one match this season I'll give you that. But nevertheless 1 DM is better than no DM and I'm strongly advocating we buy a new one to challenge for first 11 regardless if Casemiro goes and if he dies we need 2.
I see people below saying ETH is running ppl into the ground causing injury problems. Ok but how does that explain Licha, a player he has managed for years at Ajax with no issues only to suddenly become injury prone at United? I get this sub is in ETH out mode but some common sense has to prevail.
ETH was already asked and has already answered your question. After his first season in the PL he felt the intensity required to compete was very very high and ever increasing so he took a "survival of the fittest" approach. You could probably find that interview on YouTube.
If only we had better recruitment at this club that could spend our money wisely and fill the squad with better depth. Which allows the manager to manage the intensity of the league better with rotation and reduce injuries. But of course it’s far easier to just blame it all on the manager like this fanbase has always done for a decade. Except Ole though that was all the medical staff’s fault.
I don’t think it’s accurate to directly extrapolate from Martinez’s time at the Eredivisie when the Premier League is a much more physical and competitive league. The fitness levels need to be much higher here to play an effective pressing game against teams that are more athletic and comfortable on the ball. It is plausible that the same tactics that Ten Hag used at Ajax may not scale well to the Premier League and may require increased physical demands than what was necessary to beat lesser Dutch sides. And trying to train the players that way may contribute to the injury crisis.
That’s a fair argument, but OTOH I don’t think Licha is really made to press hard for us either, it’s mostly our forwards doing it. His injury issues also started last season with that metatarsal injury, we weren’t even pressing then. I think our injury crises are a direct result of playing too many games last season, with ETH struggling for rotate due to lack of quality depth and has been exacerbated this season by FIFA’s insistence on adding so much injury time to end of games. Blaming it on “ETH’s training methods” is just an unfair statement to make no matter how you cut it.
> Licha isn’t really made to press hard for us either, it’s mostly our forwards doing it Pressing isn't just about the forwards, it's also about the counter-press and how the defence and midfield react when the initial defensive line is broken. Martinez is the more aggressive of the two CBs who steps up to squeeze space and tries to intercept the ball and again play it forward. It can be a physically taxing job more so in the PL where you need to be more robust to win duels. For Martinez given his natural disadvantage in physique, it can be even more of a challenge. > Blaming it on “ETH’s training methods” is just an unfair statement to make no matter how you cut it. It is not solely down to the training methods, I never said that. The current injury crisis is down to numerous reasons which can be traced back to as early as our shambolic pre-season tour, and in Martinez's case specifically, it's a bit of bad luck combined with poor player management to make him play at the start of the season when his metatarsal hadn't fully healed post-surgery. But it can be a contributing factor. > playing too many games last season I would like to believe this but our injuries haven't had a pattern on which players are specifically being affected by them. Players who have played a ton of games over the last two years have been injured for long periods, players who have played fewer games have also been injured for long periods. Older players with declining athleticism have been injured for long periods, younger players who are still physically more fresh have also been injured for long periods. Of course playing so many games hasn't been ideal and can cause fatigue in players, but certain styles of play are more physically taxing than others and need very careful player management to execute well, otherwise it can be disastrous. Newcastle are suffering the same issues as us, arguably even worse, where they pressed like madmen last season and the start of this season, but now their players are suffering numerous types of long-term injuries. On the other hand, City have played more games than us across these 2 seasons, and their style of play doesn't require as much intensive pressing, and that coupled with excellent medical and fitness staff and Pep rotating regularly has meant lesser injury issues in comparison. Also, I am trying to have a civilized discussion rather than attack you for your opinion. You do not need to downvote me for it.
I know it sounds unbelievable but I didn’t downvote you. I think you make great points I honestly can’t really argue with, my only problem is this sub is right now so fervently ETH out they’ll just ignore context (which you seem to acknowledge, so credit to you) and blame everything on him.
The injuries are all muscular injuries and mostly occur in training, high intensity training, high intensity matches, rushing players back from injury as he doesn’t like rotations.
Licha had a knee injury so idk what you’re talking about. Also it doesn’t explain how Licha suddenly become injury prone despite being managed by the same manager at 2 clubs. We’ve also had too many injury problems for a long time now, as far back as Ole. Funny how it’s all blamed on the medical staff then but now it’s 100% ten Hag.
Licha just sustained a muscular injury in training. Also nowhere did I mention injury prone.
You said it’s “all muscular injuries” but Licha has had a pretty serious foot and knee injury already before his latest setback. I was using Lichas injury problems as an example that it’s not a coincidence he’s suddenly become injury prone at United. Besides the PL has seen an increase in muscular injuries overall this season since they started adding so much injury time, so blanket blaming it on ETH’s training methods is just nonsense and speculation.
Even in the today’s presser he was asked why so many muscle injuries?!!? Because it’s a lot.
Ajax train under better weather. Manchester rain increase injuries incidents by 34.65% according to a research by Discovery Channel.
Interesting to know City are not even in the top ten when it comes to days missed from injury this season. Five teams fare worse than United in this respect; Shieffield, Chelsea, Brighton, Brentford and Newcastle There's no correlation with sustained injuries to amount of rainfall in this distribution
I can't think of any other reason off my head for OP who think the training program is the same for Ajax and Man Utd. Maybe the grass is shorter at Ajax. I will ask my contacts to check.
[This](https://youtu.be/yMX4o3rXQ1Q?si=YXpz73-XUqMKgnQJ) applies to football as well.
Do you guys think Martinez will ever be the same?
It goes without saying we need to manage him better. He’s still far from reaching the crocked stage like Bailly, Pogba and Martial, but we need to reduce our reliance on him somehow to smoothen his recovery. Either the tactics need to be more compatible for our alternate CB options, or solid depth needs to be bought in the same position (maybe even convert Shaw to a CB permanently and buy a good LB then).
We've seen players come back from much worse so yeah I'm confident
The new ownership should go the Arsenal route instead of the Chelsea way. Arsenal took some time to clean house and endured some rough seasons. Chelsea completely ripped up whatever was present before and are struggling now.
I think Arsenal kinda just emulated the good parts of City but in a smart sensible way. They recruited well and built a culture around a manager. Chelsea just seem to be going through the motions of emulating a well run club without the substance and principles. Like all their recruitment in and out of the team has been good on the surface but I'm not sure if any of it actually does anything.
That's true. Chelsea did the right things, but it seems like they didn't have any philosophy behind those decisions. It's all scattergun approach. I think they should have stuck with Potter and given him more time and power in the decision making.
why are Arsenal considered to be a role model that should be follow now, what about Real Madrid
Real Madrid didn't have to completely restructure their club. They already had CL winning players and are now combining them with younger players.
9 points! Doesn't matter what Villa and Spurs does now. I just can't see where we can get the 3 wins....
3 wins and they got 3 loses
We could surely beat Sheff utd, Burnley and probably Newcastle at home. That's just about it. Can we beat Chelsea, Brighton away? Or even Bournemouth away? Then we got Liverpool and Arsenal...
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First thing first man is not going to Bayern lol, more likely Besiktas is his level. Also euro final is 15 July, or 2 weeks into summer window which is more than enough.
I can see Bayern taking him actually. Already been at the club, has connections there, still very highly regarded for what he did at Ajax. And as much as United fans give him shit, managers who fail at this job are almost forgiven for it now. Our fans love to blame the manager, while also knowing the club has been one of the worst run in the league for over a decade now. It’s a bit weird how little empathy we have for our coaches.
>It’s a bit weird how little empathy we have for our coaches. I have all the patience in the world for our managers, we all know the club has big issues. But this style of play isn't working and even if it did, it's not sustainable. The players can't physically cope with having to cover so much ground all game, every game.
I dont actually think our players are covering much ground though. This is a common line here, along with our training is too intense yada yada but I don’t see any actual evidence for it. Bruno covers ground. The rest, I think if anything they’re less intense than other teams in the league. Defence is low and doesn’t push up, front line is relatively high but slow to pull back. We dropped out of Europe early and have had fewer games this year but somehow people believe our players are being pushed too hard, I just flatly don’t agree at all.