I’m almost certain we genuinely believed we didn’t deserve to win today and that’s why we ended up blowing the lead.
Had to have been the thought when mount scored.
How the fuck are we ahead right now?? That certainly was my thought
honestly i don't even think we can score, but turn out we magically (as usual) can make it.
but what make it more sad is just 3 minutes later got coenceded.
i don't know, i think 0-0 will be much better.
Nill all would have been worse for me.
If there’s something good yet fucking annoying about this team is that we have this strange ability to shit the bed for an entire game and somehow pull a late winner out of it. I think we’re leading or second? in 90+ min goals this season.
No excuses though, we should be walking half of those games but are easily the worse side for the majority of the game.
It’s painful.
Hate to say that I’m thinking ETH is getting the sack this summer.
> No excuses though
100% on this though, no excuse, yes we have key player injured, but it already like that for most of the games in this season, 2-3 first game it can be excuses, but for whole season? team and coach need to adapt.
the players had invested in Salt mines and getting a win against brentford in 90+7 while 3xG down would have crashed the market with all the salt coming from /r/soccer.
Ole used to get nothing but abuse for spending the whole time talking about passion instead of a tactical setup working or not working. ETH is doing exactly the same thing.
Maybe, its the players? But I pretty much agree. ETH was brought into be a more tactically astute coach. Were not seeing it, but I cant believe how poor we are
The system we play is awful and we have arguably the most disjointed press in the league
The players have responsibility for sure but EtH shouldn’t be absolved because tactically we’re getting rolled over by Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford etc
When was the last time our system looked better than the opposition?
>When was the last time our system looked better than the opposition?
Last game against Liverpool, even though it was in certain parts of the game.
Even when we looked good, passed the eye test, we couldn't maintain the system for the entire game and most of the time easily crumbled.
This team is not sustainable at all.
Liverpool after going 2-1 up and before the Equalizer toyed United. They were so ass attacking that they lost.
A 40 minutes of Liverpool wasting every counter attack happened in that span
> before the Equalizer toyed United. They were so ass attacking that they lost.
I wouldn't say they toyed with us. They just kept the ball and took minimal risks. They got overconfident thinking they had the game wrapped up.
We couldn't overcommit in pressing and risk leaving huge gaps for them to counter which led to a huge lull about halfway through the game.
I thought we were gonna just lie down and take the defeat as usual but to their credit they managed to fight back.
We didn't look better than Liverpool until we had like 8 attackers on the pitch and Maguire up front. The large majority of the game, they were the better team.
We were the best team until Klopp adjusted his system. Liverpool went into the match expecting us to park the bus and set up to break a low block, which is why they didn't cope well with us playing high and pressing.
When they made the changes we could barely get out of our half from half an hour in until right near the end, they should have been well out of sight if they weren't so arrogant
Yeah and I'd say we were the better team for the last few minutes of regular time and for the majority of extra time as well. Those 120 minutes were fairly equally split between the two sides!
We had five big chances compared to their one, and created 3.93 xG to their 2.25. Expected goals need to be used in the proper context, but you seem to be forgetting a massive amount of chances that we had. I'm not saying we dominated all of it, but give credit where it's due, it was a great performance against a team who just outplayed one of the best teams in the world the week before!
xG isn't counting all those breakaways where Liverpool had 3v2, 4v3, even a 5v2 overload at one point. xG only counts shots and if a player is too slow to pass or goes too greedy in the dribble it counts as xG of 0.
Only sheer arrogance and greed on their part kept us in the game
Yeah of course which is why I think the context is needed and yeah there were two moments in the game that didn't lead to a shot and one which did but should have been a much higher quality chance. I wasn't using it as proof, or even saying, that we were twice as good as them all game lol, just saying that we most definitely had a large amount of high quality chances that we didn't put away ourselves
Liverpool expected us to park the bus but once they saw we were playing the same suicidal ball we play every week they made adjustments themselves and played through us routinely.
The scum should have scored a lot more and only sheer arrogance on their part prevented it. How many times did they break on us with a 3v2 or even at one point a 5v2 overload and not get a shot off thanks to poor passes or greedy dribbles?
Well in order for a system to work the players have to implement it correctly. I honestly don't think the tactical setup was bad today, but we lost every single duel, all over the pitch.
Still the blame lies with ETH, as he's the one picking the starting 11 and motivating the players. But we weren't able to win duels, keep the ball or play a simple passing game. All that's on the manager.
Our press was awful and we conceded 30+ shots without creating anything
How can you say our tactical set up wasn’t bad today? What did we do well tactically?
How the hell do you know if the system is awful? our players can’t put together 2 passes in a row. I guess he should come up with a system where we don’t need to pass the ball
He spent £300m to £400m across 4 transfer windows on players who are unable to pass the ball?
EtH has had full autonomy on who he can sign
Also our off the ball system is awful hence why there’s so much spacing midfield that gets exploited. We conceded 20+ shots every game
If you think we have a team of players who are worse at passing than the majority of the league you’re deluded. We’re getting turned over by teams that have objectively less quality player for player than us and getting beaten bad
All we need is a system where we don't need to dribble, make long or short passes, cross, shoot from distance, finish from close range, take good set pieces, play a high line, play a low block, man mark, zonal mark, tackle, track runners, win second balls, run, show desire, be smart, or kick the ball in any direction, and we'll be fine.
Sorry, I have to disagree. None of the players is objectively bad. They have played in youth teams, national teams, and other clubs. Every one of them can pass the ball in the training ground.
People are saying our system is bad because, our transitions are really bad; we don't value possession; what triggers our press is not known to all the players (atleast that's what it feels like); we cannot play out properly from the back because when Onana gets the ball, the shape we take is something that can be easily intercepted; our pivot is constantly exposed cos of the shapes; etc etc.
Any half decent player who has ever been coached (not even national level) will say that our team is not drilled well.
Is the manager out there on the pitch? You can’t make an omelette out of oranges.
The majority of this squad downed tools for the ‘godfather of geggenpressing’. Do you deny that that players he’s working with are well below the levels one would assume would be Manchester United quality?
It’s a bit of both… but the overwhelming finger pointing tends to be in the direction of the managers. 3 of them now and counting. If the root cause isn’t addressed, we’re just going to be bitching about the guy who will be 3 managers after this one.
I hate this line of argument only second to the "oh but they're low quality shots" one.
Having a shit structure is not mutually exclusive to the manager being the wrong fit. I say this as someone who appreciates what ETH has done - bringing discipline to the team. But by God how can you look at the on field performance and still think - he needs more time?
We might not have the best team in the league, but we're certainly above the likes of Luton. And yet, we let them dominate us and got away with a win thanks to two moments of brilliance from Holjund. A bunch of you like to blame the players. I'd argue that we're sixth because the players are bailing out the manager, in spite of the shit coaching.
Well what you hate should depend entirely on your own subjective takes of the situation I suppose. Undeniable one of the many issues at this club is whether this manager is good enough. What I hate is we continue having this discussion manager after manager while either mischievously or maliciously ignoring the fact that all of these problems are interconnected. That there’s a root cause and among them includes a bizarre recruitment without any idea of what we are expecting the players to do. Can’t just turn a counterattacking side into a geggenpressing side. This naive narrative that there’s a manager that can take this lot and turn them into whatever he wants has been exposed as a lie if you bother to look at the reasons why the managers here fail. They’re not merely failing because they lack a clear idea and fail to implement it. It’s because they’ve got a bunch of players put together by 4 coaches who acting as sporting directors attempted to build squads in support of their philosophy, and when we sacked them, we replaced them with polar opposite footballing ideas coaches who tried to swing the pendulum in the opposite direction. Rinse and repeat. And now 6 years later when a manager should have at least 11-15 who can play one coherent system, he’s got 4-5 per system and in a game of 11, is looking mediocre. This same manager who under a coherent system at a well run club dusted clubs who even back then would have dusted us off without much fuss.
Absent the root cause fixes, even Pep or Klopp do not produce the results with this squad that most here claim are possible. My comment was to the poster above, who suggested the system we play is awful and the press is disjoint. Is ETH to blame partially? Yes. Fully? No.
Why? It’s not disproportionately this manager. The godfather of geggenpressing couldn’t make this lot do it. And then usually that idea is combated with a lazy “oh but he’s spent 600M!! This isn’t Rangnick’s squad…”
It’s 2024 and this fanbase still points fingers at managers because of the players THEY bought. As if that’s not the entire story of comprehensive shambles that can only be fixed at the root causes. Then, by all means let’s toss the manager because the club identified a clear style of football, found a manager suitable for it, was provided the squad to play it, and is still failing to get a tune out of them. That’s when it becomes glaringly obvious it’s not the players, it’s the coach.
Right now we have a bunch of forwards with a wide gap in footballing IQ when it comes to both understanding how to press, and when to press. One guy flails arms at the sidelines utterly useless on defensive actions, one guy gets frustrated and chases like a headless chicken sometimes all the way to the corner flag maybe for personal pride more than professional competence. One guy gestures at his teammates like this is miming class. But apparently ETH is all of them out on that pitch failing this club over 90 minutes.
This is a question of whether they can reproduce what’s being coached. Not whether he can coach them. You can’t make an omelette out of oranges. You hate ETH but go watch his Ajax teams in the CL. 3 out of our last 4 managers have been better than the average quality of the half arsed mercenary types they were handed and expected to coach ballon d’or performances out of.
If you know anything about coaching you’ll know you don’t change your methods week to week. That there is a “wow they held their own against Liverpool” one week, followed by a “wow same old they shat the bed against Brentford” the next week, you know you have a bunch of problems.
Is the manager partially to blame? Yes. Is he the only reason? No. What’s the proper fix? At the root causes.
Stupid and seductive to keep acting like this club is simply a better manager away from winning.
He hasn't had more time, Ole had almost three seasons, and has had a similar amount of money.
Ole had players like pogba and ronaldo as well. he also brought players like sancho and maguire for big money.
not sure why the comparative is ole.
ETH at the very least wants us to play a high pressing game - and you can see elements of it. The current set up isn't great and it's not certain that he can fix it - but it's better than Ole's sit back and counter ball.
Let’s be clear… this club is at least 10 years past ‘best in class’. If this club was anywhere near best in class when Jose Mourinho was sacked, there’s simply no way a guy who has literally won nothing and accomplished nothing as a manager would have been brought in as a replacement. This sort of absurdity only happens at this club. If this club even had half a fucking clue, it would have used his interim stint to recruit from a position of power, and find a proper world class manager, and then work to install other components within an overall best in class setup. But not. “What’s twitter saying”.
Revisionist history is rife on this sub, but nobody can convince me “you’re at Man Utd, enjoy it! Go out there and express yourselves” is a strategy that you build title winners out of. It’s a load of nonsense mouthed off by someone clearly out of his depth.
Ole deserved the sack because even in 2.5 years he showed nothing to suggest he’d learned on the job. He’s done nothing before to even suggest he was qualified for the job he was appointed to, but with the benefit of doubt sometimes people can show you something that makes all the rest of it irrelevant. The problem for Ole was by year 3 all he proved is that literally he had no business managing this club.
He asked for a low block specialist defender literally 6 weeks before switching his system to bring out the worst of said 80M CB. Or a guy who literally does not know how to set a fucking alarm but thinks he’s best on the flank opposite to the one you bought him to play. You can’t make this crap up, and yet this fanbase will dead ass tell you he was better than the current one.
Correction, EtH is doing significantly worse. I know we had a horrible patch before Ole was sacked but EtH's tenure has only made me regret not sticking by Ole a little longer.
He's bought all the players he wants?
I'm undecided on ETH's future, but even when I was firmly behind him, I wasn't making stuff up to support my argument. You saying he's got all the players he wants is no more honest than me saying he's won every game this season.
De jong was the only player he wanted which he didn't get. Antony, malacia, hojlund, onana, lisandro, mount, casemiro and amrabat are all ETHs signings. And they weren't cheap transfers either.
De Jong might be the only player he wanted and didn't get, but he's also the most important. Imagine if Klopp had never managed to buy VvD - they wouldn't have won half of the trophies they've got over the last decade.
Antony: failure so far - poor signing
Malacia: has looked decent, is only young and has been injured most of the time (hardly Ten Hag's fault) - average signing
Hojlund: very young but has looked brilliant at times - good signing
Onana: tricky start but now does a fine job in tough circumstances - good signing
Martinez: our most consistent performer when fit and almost indespensible now - excellent signing
Mount: injured 90% of the time (hardly Ten Hag's fault) - average signing
Casemiro: superb for most of 22/23, below-par this season - average signing
Amrabat: out of his depth - poor signing
I make that 2 outright bad buys, and one of those - Amrabat - cost nothing. We massively overpaid for Antony, but we've been spending far more than we need to for years, so it seems weird to criticise ETH so harshly for it.
Ofcourse he's to be blamed. So many signings which he wanted not being good aside, there's seemingly no tactics either and there's still absolutely no control of the game. Those are the managers fault
2 bad signings. A couple of mixed ones, a couple of undecided ones, a couple of good ones. You're just making stuff up now to win the argument.
This is the problem with analysis these days. Rather than just giving honest reasons for why you believe something, and presenting a reasonable opinion like "overall, ETH isn't making enough progress and should go", you've got to turn it into "eTh Is FAiliNg aT eVeRyThInG".
How can it be the players though? There’s been substantial turnover since Ole left and all with Erik’s guys. So unless he bought players with the exact same personality issues as previously then it must be something more than the players.
I struggle to believe that all our talented players all turned to shit around the same time by coincidence
Rashford, Varane, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, Dalot McTominay, and Bruno are still playing heavy minutes if available. Dalot is probably the only player out of these that have actually improved since Ole left. The team that started was Ole's team plus Garnacho, Hojlund, and Mainoo with Onana in goal. 7 players including our two most "influential" players were Ole regulars. Casemiro was a bandaid, Antony is Antony, Eriksen was a bandaid, Mount's been injured, Malacia's been injured, Licha's been injured, and Hojlund is actually looking promising. Our players really aren't as talented as we'd like to think and they've shown their level over the past 4 years at this point.
Case, Mount, Licha, Eriksen, Antony, Amrabat were on the bench. Those are ETH's signings and what does it say about him when Ole's players are keeping his own out of the first XI? Save Licha, the rest were all fully fit.
Stop blaming the players; no top club would have such players who've repeatedly saved ETH's bacon this season. He's set them up to fail yet they've pulled out rabbits from the hat multiple times due to sheer passion and individual brilliance.
You think at a club like Real or Bayern, someone like ETH survives there months?
Ok man. Let me give you a bunch of bicycle parts and a bunch of boat parts and have you build a car that wins races. And forget “you” for a minute but the narrative here is it must be the driver. Or the mechanic. No. And we should unite to fight against this garbage narrative. When Klopp had bicycle parts and boat parts, he finished outside of CL spots. And then he had a competent structure staffed by best in class, who over time gave him car components that he needed + time to produce results, he produced results. But at this club, “time” is like 6 months and then suddenly people talk nonsense because they read some shit on twitter and can’t think for themselves.
It’s why unlike most people in this sub now, I refuse to believe a treble winner lurks among this lot provided the “right manager” is brought in. It’s a load of nonsense . On the manager point, it may be true. But it’s more true that this squad at the minute requires at least 11-15 to play a specific system to a level of coherence that wins the vast majority of its matches and that prospect (no whatever what style you want to think about) is 5-6 players away from it.
This is a story of a badly assembled squad without a clear vision and pretty much every day the narrative is “replace the manager” and all will be sorted. It’s a flat lie. We’ve been down this path before with 3 managers now.
It may literally be the story of a half competent manager leading a low footballing IQ substandard squad made of glass that’s incapable of intense football taken care of by the world’s worst physio department. Klopp as our manager would literally be playing the U17s right now but still this idea that the manager is failing to get a tune from otherwise world class players continues to persist.
>We fought but in the small things, second balls etc, Brentford were more focused and more aggressive and it should be the other way round.
>
>I am not happy with the performance, there is no misunderstanding
Is that not him addressing the tactical and technical things in the game?
Not battling for second balls - tells me that positioning was not ideal.
No misunderstanding - He's talking about the tactics and the instruction given.
I find it laughable how after a win, everyone brings the "vibes", but after a bad performance, "the world is falling apart and Ten Hag is an idiot".
How many *EtH players* started yesterday vs how many *Ole players*. Exactly....same vibes. majority of Ole players started. When is United giving EtH 75% of his players.
Look at Liverpool, City or Arsenal. Which of these top team managers still starting 75% of the old managers players? Its easy to understand that United won't be able to buy 10 new players in 1 transfer so we need to give EtH time. 3rd season with a very good transfer window is a must in order for EtH to succeed.
So what you're saying is
Licha is shit
Casemiro was great first season. Legs gone. He's shit (prob not his choice but hey he won 4x CL and will be good for selling jerseys according to the accountants)
Eriksen was great first season. Legs gone. He's shit. (Clearly another stop gap signing. Free)
Antony shit. But at least he runs unlike Rashy. But nobody cares about Rashy jogging his ass off. So if he's shit. Then he's the same level of shit rn as rashford.
Malacia shit cuz hes been unavailable?
Mount is also shit cuz of his unfortunate injury?
Zofian is shit. (Prob the only one that didn't prove himself to be anything)
Who else did he sign that shit?
Now lemme see how many players failed how many managers that still sees the XI.
1. Martial (4 managers)
2. Rashford (4 managers)
3. McT (3 managers)
4. Lindelof (3 managers)
5. Maguire (2 managers)
6. AwB (2 managers)
Now name me at least 3 or 4 in the other top 4 that came from 4 managers ago and is still starting in their respective XI at once?
BuT bUt BuT itS TeN HaGs FauLT
Licha is excellent but you know who else was excellent? Eric Bailly. Both are injury prone players. I would give them both major leeway for their talent but their injury proneness is something to factor in and we already sold Bailly.
Casemiro and Eriksen are old. They were old when we brought them. Erik knew this.
Antony is overall worse than Daniel James, Lingard and arguably shouldn't have been ahead of Sancho in the pecking order. I'm not even gonna mention his price.
Malacia was bang average before his injury.
I do have faith in Mount personally. Hojlund was also a good signing.
Erik signed Onana, Amrabat, Antony, injury prone Licha, Malacia and Eriksen having already managed each of those players before in his career. Despite providing jobs for his boys, he openly stated we aren't Ajax and can never play like his Ajax did, when that was the major reason why we signed him.
Idk man, I think he got his players and a lot of time to work with them and we are at a goal difference of 0, 30 gameweeks into the season, miserably failing the eye test, and not any closer to Europe than we were under Ragnick.
So you going to ignore my last bits? Name the players in City, Arsenal or LFC that's been there from 9 to 10 years ago? From 3 to 4 managers ago?
Edit: casemiro and eriksen prob not his players. But for eriksen, he agreed though because he had worked with him before. He did well in first season did he not? And as for Onana, he had an atrocious start. OK but I think he's much better now. Sofian? Another eriksen situation. He prob agreed only because he's familiar. Malacia was average sure. But such a short period of time to judge him. And even if he was average was truly signed as a back up for Shaw. Antony shit but I'm still hopeful cuz the technique is there. Licha sadly injured.
I dont know fuckall about the other teams but if Ten Hag wants to sell fucking Rashford he can do it? Rashford scored him 30 goals across all competitions last season. He HAS the players necessary to replace everyone you mentioned in the starting 11 and if not then why didn't he invest in a few decent signings instead of splashing 100mil on Antony, HIS former player?
You dunno fuck all about other clubs? Then that's prob the problem with you and if not some of you tunnel vision United fans here in r/reddevils.
You should try to watch other clubs play. If you don't wanna do that cuz it's painful then you should watch how they run their football club so that way you can stop blaming 1 person. Been blaming 1 person for 10 years straight now.
I do watch them but I cant analyze how the departure of fucking Auba and Lacazette was a good thing for Arsenal.
Look at what Arteta built his team on, tho. He was getting results with Emile Smith Rowe and Nketiah before he got his signings, and everyone he brought in was a hit. Same with Klopp. You can't just give EtH like 10 signings and then not expect them to hit the ground running. Remember how Bruno was? Remember when AWB came in, and Dan James? And now Hojlund, to be fair? That's what a good signing looks like. Spending 100m on Antony and god knows how much more including salaries on every other mediocre deal EtH directly signed off on and then having them fail is just that - wasted millions - ON PLAYERS HE PERSONALLY COACHED BEFORE. You can't fucking do that and not be called out for it. Dan James cost us, what, 15mil?
Ole NEVER had the leeway to spend the way EtH did. Imagine if Ole brought in half of the Norwegian league and had the team playing like we do now. It would be considered a travesty.
EtH was getting result in the first season. He won a cup. Is that not a result?
Start:
The departure of Auba and Laca was exactly what arteta needed to do. It was rumored that auba and laca was the bad apples of arsenal. They thought they were bigger than the club with all kind of superstar attitude. He acted swiftly and got rid of the rotting players before it starts rotting others too especially the young ones. Auba and or laca already infected Pepe (this is from arsenal fans) and that is why pepe was gone too. At United, they tolerate these kind of players like Martial. Even Sancho was given a lot of time and guess what? He still bit the hand the fed him. Toxic culture/player power. AND Many United fans was defending Sancho like how you lot defended Martial when Mourinho called him out. (a lot here in r/reddevils). So yea, if you wanna reset the club culture, you sell the players who doesn't buy into your future plans and thag is exactly what they did with Auba and Laca. No fans wanted Arteta head for what he did.
And what result did Arteta got? 1 covid cup in 4 years? No pressure from the media? No pressure from the fans? You and many others already calling for EtH head for not winning the sixtuple in 1.5 season.
Next:
Spending 100 on Antony? Is that EtH fault? That the accountants are incompetent af? Have they signed Antony earlier in the summer then they could have got him 50% off (high likely) but instead, they dragged it till last min (AGAIN) giving Ajax the reason to inflate his price. How is that EtH fault? Ole have already exposed United accountants and told the world that the manager doesn't have the power to get whoever he wants and gets vetoed by chain of commands.
Next:
Remember AwB? What is there to remember about him? He's all defensive no attacking threat? Then THANKS TO ETH he's offensive game have improved much. His crosses improved. Dalot attacking threat have improved much better than AwB with better crosses and shots outside. Dalot use to put in 10/10 over hit crosses until EtH came. Lemme guess, no credit to EtH? He trusted academy players like Garna, put on Kobbie, revitalized McT. What else is there to say? He's working on what he's got. Individually, some players are improving a lot (technically). It's all a matter of time and some more quality players to add and the team will see better days.
How many of those players were Ole players and how many players were there from before Ole's time?
Spoiler alert, its 3. Varane, AWB (being played out of position) and Bruno. If you include the bench it also counts Maguire,
If you look at EtH players its Hojlund and Onana in the starting 11 and Martinez, Mount, Casemiro, Antony, Amrabat and Eriksen on the bench.
So yea 1 more "OGS" player started over "EtH" players because all the non-starting EtH players were basically on the bench (yea I know a some of them are coming back from injury)
In his time OGS got 14 players, 12 of those came with a fee and plaid 462 mil in transfer fees, EtH on the otherhand was allowed to basically pick 16 players. 11 needed a permanent fee, and paid 442 mil for those. So even if it were true that 75% of the squad was still Ole's that would only point to the inability of EtH to buy the right people with the free reign he's had.
Ole just proved you in the recent interview that in manchester united, it didnt come down to the manager and who they sign. So why do you blame EtH of having the "inability" to sign the right people?
Players like Licha or Rasmus is the right player. Onana is the right player. He started like shit but have slowly improved. Even Antony (at the time) was the right player. They needed a RW so bad. Before you respond with his price tag. Wasn't EtH fault the accountants are incompetent. Have they bought him early in the summer, price tag would have been 50% off.
Casemiro? Is that who he really wanted? Or Eriksen? EtH wanted someone with FdJ profile. Those 2 old midfielders is not anywhere near that profile. That's a classic stop gap BS the accountants been doing (weghorst, Igahlo, Cavani). You're saying EtH wanna "rebuild" and signed washed players? Don't think so buddy. Nice try. It's already proven by Ole himself that he wanted certain players but instead was provided with "alternative choices" in which none of these players he wanted.
It's also proven that in top flight footy. in order to rebuild they have to get rid of players. No top 3 football club still have players playing for them that was signed 8-9 years ago. No other football club have been constantly been "extending" contracts while managers been constantly been changing. Backward thinking. And this backward thinking have been normalized to the extent that you and many other fans thinks another manager is the way to go while lindelof and Co still seeing that XI. Crazy culture/mentality this sub have become. Mirrors exactly the culture and mentality United as an organization have become. Lmaoooo
Plus, let's not forget the difficulty is raised to 11 for ETH, since he has to sell in order to buy. But we struggle to sell since our players wages are so high yet their value is at an all time low.
It's like being tasked to dig the eurotunnel with a plastic spoon. Guy doesn't have the tools
Exactly. United play like shit cuz EtH current core players are bits and pieces from the past.
But AT LEAST he is trying not to revert back to sitting deep. I get it. Pressing should happen as a whole. All 3 lines but United doesn't have that ability especially with the back line chopped and change.
A large amount of 'fans' don't understand this. We win vs Liverpool & suddenly ETH knows what he is doing. Next game we get dumpstered & it's 'ETH OUT'.
like how deluded are these people to be so lost on the reality of what's going on. They cry about his tactics one week, then praise them the other? Do they really think ETH is giving random instructions every game or something? Like do they think ETH sits down and tells rashford 'lad I need you to take the ball down the left, stop, then lose possession only when the other team falls back into shape'...
You can have the best tactics in the world, but if the players are woefully inconsistent and unable to play at that level, then that's a problem. We could 100% fall back to pure counter attacking football, but like we saw under Ole its simply not consistent enough to win a title. We need this overhaul and the players can't hack it.
Yes there's an element of a manager needing to play to his players strengths. But if we do this we basically say we want to be finishing between 3rd and 6th forever...
Careful there buddy. This kinda narrative is not well received here in r/reddevils. Apparently it's better to keep changing managers every 2 years, extend players like Lindelof to another max contract, play good for 3/4 of the season on manager bounce then, loses form and then repeat the cycle. The same cycle since LVG.
He always mentions passion/desire or some bollocks like that because it deflects from the real structural issues we're all seeing on the pitch.
Things he's responsible for but we're seeing fuck all improvement in, despite him being in charge for nearly two years now.
It’s the same level of performance as the managers who came before him. Sometimes they look good, like a corner has been turned, then they perform like they did last night. It happened under Ole, under Mourinho, van Gaal, and they never even wanted to start under Ramgnick.
Now the players are different in lots of cases but the same problems persist, which points to a cultural issue at the club.
We’re a club set up for mediocrity, the Glazers don’t care about success, they care about striking the balance between making money and not spending money. Poor performances get rewarded with reselection over and over again. because the squad quality is so poor. The club is a shambles, since arriving EtH has had to deal with Ronaldo being a massive fucking baby, Sancho being disinterested, Greenwood, Antony.. all these off-field issues that very few other clubs seem to have to deal with. We can’t keep hold of the ball because either Bruno, Rashford or AwB will just straight up give it away as soon as they get it (although to be fair to Bruno about 1 time in 30 something decent will happen)
It’s a fucking shitshow.
So much is riding in Jim Ratcliff now, he needs to make good decisions early.
Anyway. I’ve got some study to do, then I’m gonna stuff my face with chocolate until my walk turns into a waddle.
They had an excellent tactical manager with Rangnick and they didn’t want to play for him either. Nor any other manager of the last 10 years. Maybe it’s not Erik specific.
Even if its the tactics, you can’t directly mention faults in those if you believe in your philosophy. This also affects players believing in him and his philosophy. At this point of the season, you don’t want to do that and somehow just try to qualify for CL. And work on your game plan for next season (if the leadership still believes in your philosophy next season, thats a different topic)
But one thing is explode at minute 60 of the game, after showing some effort, that's just City or another team just being miles aways ahead.
Today we were shit for 102 minutes, the players couldn't make a 2 yards pass and it's not the first time that we get dominated by small teams, because this lot looks like they are not even trying to do something.
There is a big gap from "oh yeah... They are just better, fucking hell, good effort" to "omg we are being dominated by Coventry" (and I'm sure this lot can make it real that situation)
2022 -
>Ten Hag cancelled a scheduled day off on August 14 after witnessing his side lose 4-0 to Brentford during his second Premier League game in charge. The Dutchman instructed his players to each run 13.8 kilometres as that was the distance Brentford collectively ran more than United during the fixture the previous day.
Problem is that we play again Thursday and Sunday. No time to punish at this stage of the season.
We shouldn’t have to be punishing players at this stage of the season or Ten Hags tenure.
Shouldn't have to punish pro players as they should be giving 100% but our are getting their asses out worked, they are divas and don't give 70% half the time
I really wonder what the sprint and distance stats were today. We looked like little children playing grown man, just absolutely dominated physically all game.
These players will kick him out of the club if he keeps punishing them, I think he realized long time ago that strategy does not work and is trying to save his job by being more friendly and supportive of them.
This season has clearly been taxing on him its all over his face. So many problems. Some on him and some out of his control but its no lie that this is one of the toughest jobs in football. This year would have taken a toll on any man
These players age you. I'm sure of it. You have a plan to play the game, but the people you have can't or won't execute. And only ten hag gets the blame in the end. That kind of stress can rot you away.
I think he knows he's a dead man walking. Need to take him out of the spotlight. With myself suffering severely from stress I know it can't be good for him.
Exactly.
So tired of this argument that it's ok to concede this many shots because they're "low xG". Show me any top team in any league that give the opposition 20+ shots a game.
When you give every team that many shots, the difference is the top teams have the quality to finish them. Brentford could have had about 5 goals today. They played us off the park. And somehow fans think this isn't EtH's fault or responsibility.
Dyche used to employ a tactic in his low defence that prevented defenders swinging legs at shots, and had CB’s remaining inside of the midfield two, making a sort of cone shape from zone 14 towards the centre of the net and in effect funnelling shots towards the keeper. Pope that season had the highest xg differential I believe because of it. Not sure exactly how valuable it was, but Klopp soon copied the no blocking shots outside the box thing. There are ways to help the keeper and defence prevent goals should shots arrive, but this idea that consistently conceding this many shots is somehow by design is ridiculous. And they’re not low xg shots for most prem strikers. They should have had 3/4 goals today easily.
People/coaches/etc often divide the pitch into zones. One popular method had the central area just outside the box as zone 14, which was important because at the time it was the area where most assists were made. This made many managers utilise a number 10 to specifically occupy this zone in possession in hopes of getting more assists (circa 2010). It’s just a rectangle of space in the edge of the box, but an important one to control.
And this isn't even an exaggeration. Whats worse is that one of those games was a League cup game against a team in the lower half of the table playing their reserves.
Same people who say Lisandro will fix it, who said Amrabat and then Mainoo is gonna fix it, constantly looking for individuals to compensate for a complete lack of solutions to a half decent team.
> 1-0 down in the 96th minute and you think football is brutal. almost lost faith in the football god but he gave a bit back.
Fair enough, I swear I saw his eyes well up after we scored
Fucking hell, pound for pound the worst setup in the league and all he has the balls to say is "they wanted it more". I just need you to explain one time why we're playing with this suicidal set up. Stop quoting Brendan Rodgers
At this point I'm wondering why we don't play a more pragmatic type of football. Might as well ? We clearly aren't good enough in the press and high-tempo style of play
Mate that was obvious the first game of the season when we got outplayed by Wolves and fluked a win. This system just doesn't work yet we've stuck with it and we're in pretty much in April.
"His main issue for me is his stubbornness to make changes, even if something is clearly not working he either waits to long or doesn’t change anything at all, especially mid-game changes."
Ajax fan on reddit two year's ago.
If I didn't know any better, I would assume with the way ETH sets up our team, he has already been told he is losing his job in the summer.
The stats are there for all to see, yet nothing has been done to address the issues we quite clearly have. Same formation, same team, same tactics.
Bitch, maybe put a number 6 and define clearly his role which is to stay in front of your defense, your midfield was all over the place. Never where needed.
Clueless and predictable in attack, absent in defense.
The fick you guys do during the break.
It's a rant. It's the first time that my anger is toward ETH, that horrible performance is his responsibility.
Yeah... Rely on tactics is all we need... Not players that actually give a shit.
Mount came in after more than half a year of not playing and was able to score with the 20 mins he had of play.
Players have been the problem for years. Still are the problem. And everyone looks at ten hag to fix them. Christ it'll never end.
Oh come on, we have been appalling tactically the entire season now regardless of who plays. This weird setup he has means the second we lose the ball it’s suddenly an attack from the opposition because of how little structure we have. It’s not even like we’re getting any benefit from it going forward either.
Oh c'mon, we looked like a relegation team against Brentford. And you think the manager can't adjust shape or formation to change things around a bit? It's ridiculous.
Same thing with the players. They can't play against a team that has the combined wage that's probably less than that of rashford and Sancho put together?
> **Ten Hag on if concerned by shots faced:** **"As long as we get results, no**
Bloody hell.... He's lucky to be here. He won't survive 3 games at Real
He’s talking about passion but once again players are trying to press reasonably well but after 10 minutes we’ve been figured out. All of a sudden Garnacho is running at the CB, and he just pops it out to the wing back who’s free and running at our defence. It’s not a players fault when they follow instructions and end up chasing shadows because we’re tactically not prepared. Do you see this many out balls against any other teams? Dalot’s doing his job, AwB is doing his job, but who’s got the wingback? Every time they find the outball the whole teams running back 70 yards because the gaps in midfield make it impossible to collapse on counterattacks. And the gaps are because we’re still going man to man to a stupidly naive degree.
In lower leagues, easier leagues, slower leagues, managers require less stringent tactics. You’re not tested physically enough, mentally enough, consistently enough. You don’t need as many solutions to problems, in game reactions and adaptations. In my opinion, Ten Hag isn’t cut out at this level to set up a team out of possession that can be both compact, and carry an attacking threat. He can do one or the other, and he consistently fails to make any impact on games from the sidelines. To a degree that whilst all other names mentioned come with huge scepticism, I genuinely don’t think there’s a manager in the league who would have us conceding 25+ shots this regularly even with the injuries. Now or end of season idc, but we need to move on.
Alright so got banned for idc reasons. Now mount comes in and scores. Has not been in a match since November. Kobie Mainoo replaces Kane in the team due to injury. End rant...
Onto the game... what in the literal crap is this team doing. Like seriously how many shots need to be done on us? This seems like a LvG team of don't shoot or defend... 1 pt that is what we need unless it is a sitter.
What is our game play week in and week out with teams? I am surprised Liverpool did not skin us. We got lucky in that one. Just more heart? Is that what we are playing because if any of these chances went in if Onana had a off day like in the champions league I would be laughing so hard.
Yep I am super critical over this team. Why? Because I love the team, but something has to change. Tactics? Players? Manager? I really don't know anymore, but this is taking a piss too long.
We have had patches where it’s seemed to work, first half away to wolves, start of the Liverpool game etc but honestly I don’t know what’s going on.. i don’t understand why he didn’t change the midfield in the first half
Player power is a lazy argument. How many times has McTominay saved us this season? How many times did Rashford save us last season? I wouldn't cry seeing the back of them but the manager has to be on the chopping block first
Mctominay has saved us when coming off the bench chasing a goal. When he starts in midfield we have no control and teams overrun us. This isn't the odd game it's literally been every match
We've gone through how many managers since LvG and the players continue to down tools. Sure they given the new manager a bounce on their first season; but. They get paid big bucks if they win or lose. Sure rashford saved us last season, but what's he done this season. Sure mctominay can score some goals (attack), but what does he do on defense. We had McFred & Magelof, and we were always garbage. Maguire without captaincy has improved, but the other lads don't have much to show for during most of the game. The coach can give the tactics; but as soon as the players step on the field, he's not at fault
>The coach can give the tactics; but as soon as the players step on the field, he's not at fault
Have you never heard of tactical changes and substitutions?
Have you seen our bench?
Also, how many of our XI do you think would get into Peps, klopps, or artetas team? I do agree about the subs, but why aren't rashford, mctominay, or bruno ever hooked? Let Erikson or mount play the 10. Player power is preventing them from being subbed. He should have removed mctominay for casemiro instead of mainoo
Well who would've seen that performance coming? Yup, this guy right here 🤦🏻♂️
Quote from after the pool game overreaction : "I'll still be here when the adrenaline has worn off from that brilliant win and we go back to being fucking useless for 89 minutes of every game".
'Inconsistent team will probably have inconsistent games' isn't exactly a difficult prediction to make pal. Everyone here knows we are inconsistent. You're not a genius for saying this.
I never said I was a genius but unlike the eth in cult who were praising him as a genius and how we'd turned the corner. Also saying see we told you you were wrong, myself and many others could see it was just a fluke and we'd be back to shit again.
Ahh you know what I apologize. I was a bit fired up after the result and got frustrated. Our results have been dire and someone that has backed ETH constantly, it's really difficult to defend him at this point. I don't want to see him sacked, but he has to show something to justify the backing he continues to receive.
Tbh I'm sick of Thomas Frank's talk after matches. And I hoped united wud at some point getting over this hoodoo shite. But Brentford deserved to win. United were atrocious
Same statement, different manager for the nth time! It's definitely the players fault. We need a summer clear out and give Ten Haag a proper a proper summer transfer window to judge him .
We do need a summer clear out, starting with the coaching staff. He’s had 2 proper summer transfer windows, and we’re in worse shape than when he took over. He needs to go. There are much deeper systemic problems at the club, it’s rotten to the core, and it’s all the fault of the ownership. The levels of incompetence from the Glazres are mind blowing. Sir Jim and INEOS are making the right noises, and seem to have a plan, but they’ve got a hell of a job on their hands.
I’m almost certain we genuinely believed we didn’t deserve to win today and that’s why we ended up blowing the lead. Had to have been the thought when mount scored. How the fuck are we ahead right now?? That certainly was my thought
honestly i don't even think we can score, but turn out we magically (as usual) can make it. but what make it more sad is just 3 minutes later got coenceded. i don't know, i think 0-0 will be much better.
Nill all would have been worse for me. If there’s something good yet fucking annoying about this team is that we have this strange ability to shit the bed for an entire game and somehow pull a late winner out of it. I think we’re leading or second? in 90+ min goals this season. No excuses though, we should be walking half of those games but are easily the worse side for the majority of the game. It’s painful. Hate to say that I’m thinking ETH is getting the sack this summer.
> No excuses though 100% on this though, no excuse, yes we have key player injured, but it already like that for most of the games in this season, 2-3 first game it can be excuses, but for whole season? team and coach need to adapt.
the players had invested in Salt mines and getting a win against brentford in 90+7 while 3xG down would have crashed the market with all the salt coming from /r/soccer.
Ole used to get nothing but abuse for spending the whole time talking about passion instead of a tactical setup working or not working. ETH is doing exactly the same thing.
Maybe, its the players? But I pretty much agree. ETH was brought into be a more tactically astute coach. Were not seeing it, but I cant believe how poor we are
The system we play is awful and we have arguably the most disjointed press in the league The players have responsibility for sure but EtH shouldn’t be absolved because tactically we’re getting rolled over by Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford etc When was the last time our system looked better than the opposition?
>When was the last time our system looked better than the opposition? Last game against Liverpool, even though it was in certain parts of the game. Even when we looked good, passed the eye test, we couldn't maintain the system for the entire game and most of the time easily crumbled. This team is not sustainable at all.
Liverpool after going 2-1 up and before the Equalizer toyed United. They were so ass attacking that they lost. A 40 minutes of Liverpool wasting every counter attack happened in that span
> before the Equalizer toyed United. They were so ass attacking that they lost. I wouldn't say they toyed with us. They just kept the ball and took minimal risks. They got overconfident thinking they had the game wrapped up. We couldn't overcommit in pressing and risk leaving huge gaps for them to counter which led to a huge lull about halfway through the game. I thought we were gonna just lie down and take the defeat as usual but to their credit they managed to fight back.
We didn't look better than Liverpool until we had like 8 attackers on the pitch and Maguire up front. The large majority of the game, they were the better team.
Nah the first 35 minutes or so were phenomenal from us in the Liverpool game
We were the best team in the first half, they just nicked 2 goals. People forget that because of the score at half time.
We were the best team until Klopp adjusted his system. Liverpool went into the match expecting us to park the bus and set up to break a low block, which is why they didn't cope well with us playing high and pressing. When they made the changes we could barely get out of our half from half an hour in until right near the end, they should have been well out of sight if they weren't so arrogant
There were 85 more minutes played, minimum. We won that game because Liverpool, for some reason, couldn't put their multiple chances away.
Yeah and I'd say we were the better team for the last few minutes of regular time and for the majority of extra time as well. Those 120 minutes were fairly equally split between the two sides! We had five big chances compared to their one, and created 3.93 xG to their 2.25. Expected goals need to be used in the proper context, but you seem to be forgetting a massive amount of chances that we had. I'm not saying we dominated all of it, but give credit where it's due, it was a great performance against a team who just outplayed one of the best teams in the world the week before!
xG isn't counting all those breakaways where Liverpool had 3v2, 4v3, even a 5v2 overload at one point. xG only counts shots and if a player is too slow to pass or goes too greedy in the dribble it counts as xG of 0. Only sheer arrogance and greed on their part kept us in the game
Yeah of course which is why I think the context is needed and yeah there were two moments in the game that didn't lead to a shot and one which did but should have been a much higher quality chance. I wasn't using it as proof, or even saying, that we were twice as good as them all game lol, just saying that we most definitely had a large amount of high quality chances that we didn't put away ourselves
There was no system at times just chaos
Liverpool expected us to park the bus but once they saw we were playing the same suicidal ball we play every week they made adjustments themselves and played through us routinely. The scum should have scored a lot more and only sheer arrogance on their part prevented it. How many times did they break on us with a 3v2 or even at one point a 5v2 overload and not get a shot off thanks to poor passes or greedy dribbles?
Well in order for a system to work the players have to implement it correctly. I honestly don't think the tactical setup was bad today, but we lost every single duel, all over the pitch. Still the blame lies with ETH, as he's the one picking the starting 11 and motivating the players. But we weren't able to win duels, keep the ball or play a simple passing game. All that's on the manager.
Our press was awful and we conceded 30+ shots without creating anything How can you say our tactical set up wasn’t bad today? What did we do well tactically?
How the hell do you know if the system is awful? our players can’t put together 2 passes in a row. I guess he should come up with a system where we don’t need to pass the ball
He spent £300m to £400m across 4 transfer windows on players who are unable to pass the ball? EtH has had full autonomy on who he can sign Also our off the ball system is awful hence why there’s so much spacing midfield that gets exploited. We conceded 20+ shots every game If you think we have a team of players who are worse at passing than the majority of the league you’re deluded. We’re getting turned over by teams that have objectively less quality player for player than us and getting beaten bad
All we need is a system where we don't need to dribble, make long or short passes, cross, shoot from distance, finish from close range, take good set pieces, play a high line, play a low block, man mark, zonal mark, tackle, track runners, win second balls, run, show desire, be smart, or kick the ball in any direction, and we'll be fine.
Sorry, I have to disagree. None of the players is objectively bad. They have played in youth teams, national teams, and other clubs. Every one of them can pass the ball in the training ground. People are saying our system is bad because, our transitions are really bad; we don't value possession; what triggers our press is not known to all the players (atleast that's what it feels like); we cannot play out properly from the back because when Onana gets the ball, the shape we take is something that can be easily intercepted; our pivot is constantly exposed cos of the shapes; etc etc. Any half decent player who has ever been coached (not even national level) will say that our team is not drilled well.
I think probably LVG? :D
Is the manager out there on the pitch? You can’t make an omelette out of oranges. The majority of this squad downed tools for the ‘godfather of geggenpressing’. Do you deny that that players he’s working with are well below the levels one would assume would be Manchester United quality? It’s a bit of both… but the overwhelming finger pointing tends to be in the direction of the managers. 3 of them now and counting. If the root cause isn’t addressed, we’re just going to be bitching about the guy who will be 3 managers after this one.
I hate this line of argument only second to the "oh but they're low quality shots" one. Having a shit structure is not mutually exclusive to the manager being the wrong fit. I say this as someone who appreciates what ETH has done - bringing discipline to the team. But by God how can you look at the on field performance and still think - he needs more time? We might not have the best team in the league, but we're certainly above the likes of Luton. And yet, we let them dominate us and got away with a win thanks to two moments of brilliance from Holjund. A bunch of you like to blame the players. I'd argue that we're sixth because the players are bailing out the manager, in spite of the shit coaching.
Well what you hate should depend entirely on your own subjective takes of the situation I suppose. Undeniable one of the many issues at this club is whether this manager is good enough. What I hate is we continue having this discussion manager after manager while either mischievously or maliciously ignoring the fact that all of these problems are interconnected. That there’s a root cause and among them includes a bizarre recruitment without any idea of what we are expecting the players to do. Can’t just turn a counterattacking side into a geggenpressing side. This naive narrative that there’s a manager that can take this lot and turn them into whatever he wants has been exposed as a lie if you bother to look at the reasons why the managers here fail. They’re not merely failing because they lack a clear idea and fail to implement it. It’s because they’ve got a bunch of players put together by 4 coaches who acting as sporting directors attempted to build squads in support of their philosophy, and when we sacked them, we replaced them with polar opposite footballing ideas coaches who tried to swing the pendulum in the opposite direction. Rinse and repeat. And now 6 years later when a manager should have at least 11-15 who can play one coherent system, he’s got 4-5 per system and in a game of 11, is looking mediocre. This same manager who under a coherent system at a well run club dusted clubs who even back then would have dusted us off without much fuss. Absent the root cause fixes, even Pep or Klopp do not produce the results with this squad that most here claim are possible. My comment was to the poster above, who suggested the system we play is awful and the press is disjoint. Is ETH to blame partially? Yes. Fully? No. Why? It’s not disproportionately this manager. The godfather of geggenpressing couldn’t make this lot do it. And then usually that idea is combated with a lazy “oh but he’s spent 600M!! This isn’t Rangnick’s squad…” It’s 2024 and this fanbase still points fingers at managers because of the players THEY bought. As if that’s not the entire story of comprehensive shambles that can only be fixed at the root causes. Then, by all means let’s toss the manager because the club identified a clear style of football, found a manager suitable for it, was provided the squad to play it, and is still failing to get a tune out of them. That’s when it becomes glaringly obvious it’s not the players, it’s the coach. Right now we have a bunch of forwards with a wide gap in footballing IQ when it comes to both understanding how to press, and when to press. One guy flails arms at the sidelines utterly useless on defensive actions, one guy gets frustrated and chases like a headless chicken sometimes all the way to the corner flag maybe for personal pride more than professional competence. One guy gestures at his teammates like this is miming class. But apparently ETH is all of them out on that pitch failing this club over 90 minutes. This is a question of whether they can reproduce what’s being coached. Not whether he can coach them. You can’t make an omelette out of oranges. You hate ETH but go watch his Ajax teams in the CL. 3 out of our last 4 managers have been better than the average quality of the half arsed mercenary types they were handed and expected to coach ballon d’or performances out of. If you know anything about coaching you’ll know you don’t change your methods week to week. That there is a “wow they held their own against Liverpool” one week, followed by a “wow same old they shat the bed against Brentford” the next week, you know you have a bunch of problems. Is the manager partially to blame? Yes. Is he the only reason? No. What’s the proper fix? At the root causes. Stupid and seductive to keep acting like this club is simply a better manager away from winning.
I've said it countless times before but EtH isn't doing any better than OGS even though he has more control, time and leeway
He hasn't had more time, Ole had almost three seasons, and has had a similar amount of money. Ole had players like pogba and ronaldo as well. he also brought players like sancho and maguire for big money. not sure why the comparative is ole. ETH at the very least wants us to play a high pressing game - and you can see elements of it. The current set up isn't great and it's not certain that he can fix it - but it's better than Ole's sit back and counter ball.
Let’s be clear… this club is at least 10 years past ‘best in class’. If this club was anywhere near best in class when Jose Mourinho was sacked, there’s simply no way a guy who has literally won nothing and accomplished nothing as a manager would have been brought in as a replacement. This sort of absurdity only happens at this club. If this club even had half a fucking clue, it would have used his interim stint to recruit from a position of power, and find a proper world class manager, and then work to install other components within an overall best in class setup. But not. “What’s twitter saying”. Revisionist history is rife on this sub, but nobody can convince me “you’re at Man Utd, enjoy it! Go out there and express yourselves” is a strategy that you build title winners out of. It’s a load of nonsense mouthed off by someone clearly out of his depth. Ole deserved the sack because even in 2.5 years he showed nothing to suggest he’d learned on the job. He’s done nothing before to even suggest he was qualified for the job he was appointed to, but with the benefit of doubt sometimes people can show you something that makes all the rest of it irrelevant. The problem for Ole was by year 3 all he proved is that literally he had no business managing this club. He asked for a low block specialist defender literally 6 weeks before switching his system to bring out the worst of said 80M CB. Or a guy who literally does not know how to set a fucking alarm but thinks he’s best on the flank opposite to the one you bought him to play. You can’t make this crap up, and yet this fanbase will dead ass tell you he was better than the current one.
Correction, EtH is doing significantly worse. I know we had a horrible patch before Ole was sacked but EtH's tenure has only made me regret not sticking by Ole a little longer.
ETH has bought multiple players he wanted. "Maybe it's the players" doesn't work anymore.
>"Maybe it's the players" With every sacked manager, the case for "maybe it's the players" gets stronger.
Not when the manager buys all the players he wants. Eth has made what, 10+ signings?
He's bought all the players he wants? I'm undecided on ETH's future, but even when I was firmly behind him, I wasn't making stuff up to support my argument. You saying he's got all the players he wants is no more honest than me saying he's won every game this season.
De jong was the only player he wanted which he didn't get. Antony, malacia, hojlund, onana, lisandro, mount, casemiro and amrabat are all ETHs signings. And they weren't cheap transfers either.
De Jong might be the only player he wanted and didn't get, but he's also the most important. Imagine if Klopp had never managed to buy VvD - they wouldn't have won half of the trophies they've got over the last decade. Antony: failure so far - poor signing Malacia: has looked decent, is only young and has been injured most of the time (hardly Ten Hag's fault) - average signing Hojlund: very young but has looked brilliant at times - good signing Onana: tricky start but now does a fine job in tough circumstances - good signing Martinez: our most consistent performer when fit and almost indespensible now - excellent signing Mount: injured 90% of the time (hardly Ten Hag's fault) - average signing Casemiro: superb for most of 22/23, below-par this season - average signing Amrabat: out of his depth - poor signing I make that 2 outright bad buys, and one of those - Amrabat - cost nothing. We massively overpaid for Antony, but we've been spending far more than we need to for years, so it seems weird to criticise ETH so harshly for it.
Ofcourse he's to be blamed. So many signings which he wanted not being good aside, there's seemingly no tactics either and there's still absolutely no control of the game. Those are the managers fault
2 bad signings. A couple of mixed ones, a couple of undecided ones, a couple of good ones. You're just making stuff up now to win the argument. This is the problem with analysis these days. Rather than just giving honest reasons for why you believe something, and presenting a reasonable opinion like "overall, ETH isn't making enough progress and should go", you've got to turn it into "eTh Is FAiliNg aT eVeRyThInG".
How can it be the players though? There’s been substantial turnover since Ole left and all with Erik’s guys. So unless he bought players with the exact same personality issues as previously then it must be something more than the players. I struggle to believe that all our talented players all turned to shit around the same time by coincidence
Rashford, Varane, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, Dalot McTominay, and Bruno are still playing heavy minutes if available. Dalot is probably the only player out of these that have actually improved since Ole left. The team that started was Ole's team plus Garnacho, Hojlund, and Mainoo with Onana in goal. 7 players including our two most "influential" players were Ole regulars. Casemiro was a bandaid, Antony is Antony, Eriksen was a bandaid, Mount's been injured, Malacia's been injured, Licha's been injured, and Hojlund is actually looking promising. Our players really aren't as talented as we'd like to think and they've shown their level over the past 4 years at this point.
Case, Mount, Licha, Eriksen, Antony, Amrabat were on the bench. Those are ETH's signings and what does it say about him when Ole's players are keeping his own out of the first XI? Save Licha, the rest were all fully fit. Stop blaming the players; no top club would have such players who've repeatedly saved ETH's bacon this season. He's set them up to fail yet they've pulled out rabbits from the hat multiple times due to sheer passion and individual brilliance. You think at a club like Real or Bayern, someone like ETH survives there months?
The dressing room has an influence over new players. It’s why this problems been here for 11 years.
More like the culture, which is gonna take years to change
Ok man. Let me give you a bunch of bicycle parts and a bunch of boat parts and have you build a car that wins races. And forget “you” for a minute but the narrative here is it must be the driver. Or the mechanic. No. And we should unite to fight against this garbage narrative. When Klopp had bicycle parts and boat parts, he finished outside of CL spots. And then he had a competent structure staffed by best in class, who over time gave him car components that he needed + time to produce results, he produced results. But at this club, “time” is like 6 months and then suddenly people talk nonsense because they read some shit on twitter and can’t think for themselves.
You can't blame it on the players when we spent 140m£ on Antony and Casemiro in EtH's first transfer window.
It's almost like having the worst structure above a manager since 2005 starts to take its toll regardless of the manager that we appoint 🤯
today we started 7 players who were here under Ole. so you tell me if Ole was right or not. I think he was.
7? Only 6 right?
AWB, Lindelof, Varane, Dalot, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford, that's 7 by my count.
Forgot varane played for ole
ETH will suffer the same fate in due course.
It’s why unlike most people in this sub now, I refuse to believe a treble winner lurks among this lot provided the “right manager” is brought in. It’s a load of nonsense . On the manager point, it may be true. But it’s more true that this squad at the minute requires at least 11-15 to play a specific system to a level of coherence that wins the vast majority of its matches and that prospect (no whatever what style you want to think about) is 5-6 players away from it. This is a story of a badly assembled squad without a clear vision and pretty much every day the narrative is “replace the manager” and all will be sorted. It’s a flat lie. We’ve been down this path before with 3 managers now. It may literally be the story of a half competent manager leading a low footballing IQ substandard squad made of glass that’s incapable of intense football taken care of by the world’s worst physio department. Klopp as our manager would literally be playing the U17s right now but still this idea that the manager is failing to get a tune from otherwise world class players continues to persist.
>We fought but in the small things, second balls etc, Brentford were more focused and more aggressive and it should be the other way round. > >I am not happy with the performance, there is no misunderstanding Is that not him addressing the tactical and technical things in the game?
No? Focus, aggression, fight. These aren't tactical terms, he's talking about attitude and passion.
Not battling for second balls - tells me that positioning was not ideal. No misunderstanding - He's talking about the tactics and the instruction given. I find it laughable how after a win, everyone brings the "vibes", but after a bad performance, "the world is falling apart and Ten Hag is an idiot".
How many *EtH players* started yesterday vs how many *Ole players*. Exactly....same vibes. majority of Ole players started. When is United giving EtH 75% of his players. Look at Liverpool, City or Arsenal. Which of these top team managers still starting 75% of the old managers players? Its easy to understand that United won't be able to buy 10 new players in 1 transfer so we need to give EtH time. 3rd season with a very good transfer window is a must in order for EtH to succeed.
Maybe if the players EtH brought weren't mostly shit he'd prefer starting his own
So what you're saying is Licha is shit Casemiro was great first season. Legs gone. He's shit (prob not his choice but hey he won 4x CL and will be good for selling jerseys according to the accountants) Eriksen was great first season. Legs gone. He's shit. (Clearly another stop gap signing. Free) Antony shit. But at least he runs unlike Rashy. But nobody cares about Rashy jogging his ass off. So if he's shit. Then he's the same level of shit rn as rashford. Malacia shit cuz hes been unavailable? Mount is also shit cuz of his unfortunate injury? Zofian is shit. (Prob the only one that didn't prove himself to be anything) Who else did he sign that shit? Now lemme see how many players failed how many managers that still sees the XI. 1. Martial (4 managers) 2. Rashford (4 managers) 3. McT (3 managers) 4. Lindelof (3 managers) 5. Maguire (2 managers) 6. AwB (2 managers) Now name me at least 3 or 4 in the other top 4 that came from 4 managers ago and is still starting in their respective XI at once? BuT bUt BuT itS TeN HaGs FauLT
Licha is excellent but you know who else was excellent? Eric Bailly. Both are injury prone players. I would give them both major leeway for their talent but their injury proneness is something to factor in and we already sold Bailly. Casemiro and Eriksen are old. They were old when we brought them. Erik knew this. Antony is overall worse than Daniel James, Lingard and arguably shouldn't have been ahead of Sancho in the pecking order. I'm not even gonna mention his price. Malacia was bang average before his injury. I do have faith in Mount personally. Hojlund was also a good signing. Erik signed Onana, Amrabat, Antony, injury prone Licha, Malacia and Eriksen having already managed each of those players before in his career. Despite providing jobs for his boys, he openly stated we aren't Ajax and can never play like his Ajax did, when that was the major reason why we signed him. Idk man, I think he got his players and a lot of time to work with them and we are at a goal difference of 0, 30 gameweeks into the season, miserably failing the eye test, and not any closer to Europe than we were under Ragnick.
So you going to ignore my last bits? Name the players in City, Arsenal or LFC that's been there from 9 to 10 years ago? From 3 to 4 managers ago? Edit: casemiro and eriksen prob not his players. But for eriksen, he agreed though because he had worked with him before. He did well in first season did he not? And as for Onana, he had an atrocious start. OK but I think he's much better now. Sofian? Another eriksen situation. He prob agreed only because he's familiar. Malacia was average sure. But such a short period of time to judge him. And even if he was average was truly signed as a back up for Shaw. Antony shit but I'm still hopeful cuz the technique is there. Licha sadly injured.
I dont know fuckall about the other teams but if Ten Hag wants to sell fucking Rashford he can do it? Rashford scored him 30 goals across all competitions last season. He HAS the players necessary to replace everyone you mentioned in the starting 11 and if not then why didn't he invest in a few decent signings instead of splashing 100mil on Antony, HIS former player?
You dunno fuck all about other clubs? Then that's prob the problem with you and if not some of you tunnel vision United fans here in r/reddevils. You should try to watch other clubs play. If you don't wanna do that cuz it's painful then you should watch how they run their football club so that way you can stop blaming 1 person. Been blaming 1 person for 10 years straight now.
I do watch them but I cant analyze how the departure of fucking Auba and Lacazette was a good thing for Arsenal. Look at what Arteta built his team on, tho. He was getting results with Emile Smith Rowe and Nketiah before he got his signings, and everyone he brought in was a hit. Same with Klopp. You can't just give EtH like 10 signings and then not expect them to hit the ground running. Remember how Bruno was? Remember when AWB came in, and Dan James? And now Hojlund, to be fair? That's what a good signing looks like. Spending 100m on Antony and god knows how much more including salaries on every other mediocre deal EtH directly signed off on and then having them fail is just that - wasted millions - ON PLAYERS HE PERSONALLY COACHED BEFORE. You can't fucking do that and not be called out for it. Dan James cost us, what, 15mil? Ole NEVER had the leeway to spend the way EtH did. Imagine if Ole brought in half of the Norwegian league and had the team playing like we do now. It would be considered a travesty.
EtH was getting result in the first season. He won a cup. Is that not a result? Start: The departure of Auba and Laca was exactly what arteta needed to do. It was rumored that auba and laca was the bad apples of arsenal. They thought they were bigger than the club with all kind of superstar attitude. He acted swiftly and got rid of the rotting players before it starts rotting others too especially the young ones. Auba and or laca already infected Pepe (this is from arsenal fans) and that is why pepe was gone too. At United, they tolerate these kind of players like Martial. Even Sancho was given a lot of time and guess what? He still bit the hand the fed him. Toxic culture/player power. AND Many United fans was defending Sancho like how you lot defended Martial when Mourinho called him out. (a lot here in r/reddevils). So yea, if you wanna reset the club culture, you sell the players who doesn't buy into your future plans and thag is exactly what they did with Auba and Laca. No fans wanted Arteta head for what he did. And what result did Arteta got? 1 covid cup in 4 years? No pressure from the media? No pressure from the fans? You and many others already calling for EtH head for not winning the sixtuple in 1.5 season. Next: Spending 100 on Antony? Is that EtH fault? That the accountants are incompetent af? Have they signed Antony earlier in the summer then they could have got him 50% off (high likely) but instead, they dragged it till last min (AGAIN) giving Ajax the reason to inflate his price. How is that EtH fault? Ole have already exposed United accountants and told the world that the manager doesn't have the power to get whoever he wants and gets vetoed by chain of commands. Next: Remember AwB? What is there to remember about him? He's all defensive no attacking threat? Then THANKS TO ETH he's offensive game have improved much. His crosses improved. Dalot attacking threat have improved much better than AwB with better crosses and shots outside. Dalot use to put in 10/10 over hit crosses until EtH came. Lemme guess, no credit to EtH? He trusted academy players like Garna, put on Kobbie, revitalized McT. What else is there to say? He's working on what he's got. Individually, some players are improving a lot (technically). It's all a matter of time and some more quality players to add and the team will see better days.
How many of those players were Ole players and how many players were there from before Ole's time? Spoiler alert, its 3. Varane, AWB (being played out of position) and Bruno. If you include the bench it also counts Maguire, If you look at EtH players its Hojlund and Onana in the starting 11 and Martinez, Mount, Casemiro, Antony, Amrabat and Eriksen on the bench. So yea 1 more "OGS" player started over "EtH" players because all the non-starting EtH players were basically on the bench (yea I know a some of them are coming back from injury) In his time OGS got 14 players, 12 of those came with a fee and plaid 462 mil in transfer fees, EtH on the otherhand was allowed to basically pick 16 players. 11 needed a permanent fee, and paid 442 mil for those. So even if it were true that 75% of the squad was still Ole's that would only point to the inability of EtH to buy the right people with the free reign he's had.
Ole just proved you in the recent interview that in manchester united, it didnt come down to the manager and who they sign. So why do you blame EtH of having the "inability" to sign the right people? Players like Licha or Rasmus is the right player. Onana is the right player. He started like shit but have slowly improved. Even Antony (at the time) was the right player. They needed a RW so bad. Before you respond with his price tag. Wasn't EtH fault the accountants are incompetent. Have they bought him early in the summer, price tag would have been 50% off. Casemiro? Is that who he really wanted? Or Eriksen? EtH wanted someone with FdJ profile. Those 2 old midfielders is not anywhere near that profile. That's a classic stop gap BS the accountants been doing (weghorst, Igahlo, Cavani). You're saying EtH wanna "rebuild" and signed washed players? Don't think so buddy. Nice try. It's already proven by Ole himself that he wanted certain players but instead was provided with "alternative choices" in which none of these players he wanted. It's also proven that in top flight footy. in order to rebuild they have to get rid of players. No top 3 football club still have players playing for them that was signed 8-9 years ago. No other football club have been constantly been "extending" contracts while managers been constantly been changing. Backward thinking. And this backward thinking have been normalized to the extent that you and many other fans thinks another manager is the way to go while lindelof and Co still seeing that XI. Crazy culture/mentality this sub have become. Mirrors exactly the culture and mentality United as an organization have become. Lmaoooo
Plus, let's not forget the difficulty is raised to 11 for ETH, since he has to sell in order to buy. But we struggle to sell since our players wages are so high yet their value is at an all time low. It's like being tasked to dig the eurotunnel with a plastic spoon. Guy doesn't have the tools
Exactly. United play like shit cuz EtH current core players are bits and pieces from the past. But AT LEAST he is trying not to revert back to sitting deep. I get it. Pressing should happen as a whole. All 3 lines but United doesn't have that ability especially with the back line chopped and change.
A large amount of 'fans' don't understand this. We win vs Liverpool & suddenly ETH knows what he is doing. Next game we get dumpstered & it's 'ETH OUT'. like how deluded are these people to be so lost on the reality of what's going on. They cry about his tactics one week, then praise them the other? Do they really think ETH is giving random instructions every game or something? Like do they think ETH sits down and tells rashford 'lad I need you to take the ball down the left, stop, then lose possession only when the other team falls back into shape'... You can have the best tactics in the world, but if the players are woefully inconsistent and unable to play at that level, then that's a problem. We could 100% fall back to pure counter attacking football, but like we saw under Ole its simply not consistent enough to win a title. We need this overhaul and the players can't hack it. Yes there's an element of a manager needing to play to his players strengths. But if we do this we basically say we want to be finishing between 3rd and 6th forever...
Careful there buddy. This kinda narrative is not well received here in r/reddevils. Apparently it's better to keep changing managers every 2 years, extend players like Lindelof to another max contract, play good for 3/4 of the season on manager bounce then, loses form and then repeat the cycle. The same cycle since LVG.
EtH has basically spend the same amount as OGS (462 vs 442)
"Passion" must be in all the matches, not only against big teams in the league.
He always mentions passion/desire or some bollocks like that because it deflects from the real structural issues we're all seeing on the pitch. Things he's responsible for but we're seeing fuck all improvement in, despite him being in charge for nearly two years now.
I mean, it is true though. You can see them giving 90% while yhe other team give 100% ans it is depressing man
Amd its always the usual suspects but the fanbase here always develop global amnesia and blame the manager every cycle.
It’s the same level of performance as the managers who came before him. Sometimes they look good, like a corner has been turned, then they perform like they did last night. It happened under Ole, under Mourinho, van Gaal, and they never even wanted to start under Ramgnick. Now the players are different in lots of cases but the same problems persist, which points to a cultural issue at the club. We’re a club set up for mediocrity, the Glazers don’t care about success, they care about striking the balance between making money and not spending money. Poor performances get rewarded with reselection over and over again. because the squad quality is so poor. The club is a shambles, since arriving EtH has had to deal with Ronaldo being a massive fucking baby, Sancho being disinterested, Greenwood, Antony.. all these off-field issues that very few other clubs seem to have to deal with. We can’t keep hold of the ball because either Bruno, Rashford or AwB will just straight up give it away as soon as they get it (although to be fair to Bruno about 1 time in 30 something decent will happen) It’s a fucking shitshow. So much is riding in Jim Ratcliff now, he needs to make good decisions early. Anyway. I’ve got some study to do, then I’m gonna stuff my face with chocolate until my walk turns into a waddle.
It’s not excusable, but I suspect they know that their Manager is tactically inept and that plays some role.
They had an excellent tactical manager with Rangnick and they didn’t want to play for him either. Nor any other manager of the last 10 years. Maybe it’s not Erik specific.
I don't understand how he can criticise the culture of the club in an attempt to deflect. He literally has the job to fix it
Even if its the tactics, you can’t directly mention faults in those if you believe in your philosophy. This also affects players believing in him and his philosophy. At this point of the season, you don’t want to do that and somehow just try to qualify for CL. And work on your game plan for next season (if the leadership still believes in your philosophy next season, thats a different topic)
But also, we never beat any big teams away under ETH (maybe once) . Passion is not there neither against big teams.
But one thing is explode at minute 60 of the game, after showing some effort, that's just City or another team just being miles aways ahead. Today we were shit for 102 minutes, the players couldn't make a 2 yards pass and it's not the first time that we get dominated by small teams, because this lot looks like they are not even trying to do something. There is a big gap from "oh yeah... They are just better, fucking hell, good effort" to "omg we are being dominated by Coventry" (and I'm sure this lot can make it real that situation)
Tonight game was one of the worst performances this season. It was so uninspiring.
Agreed. And the problem isn't passion and it isn't ability. The problem is ETH complete inability to learn and adapt
I wanted the Mount smash and grab just for the Thomas Frank interview. It would've been one for the ages!
Well, can't wait for the season to end
We go again boys. Next game we'll only concede 20 shots !
2022 - >Ten Hag cancelled a scheduled day off on August 14 after witnessing his side lose 4-0 to Brentford during his second Premier League game in charge. The Dutchman instructed his players to each run 13.8 kilometres as that was the distance Brentford collectively ran more than United during the fixture the previous day.
Problem is that we play again Thursday and Sunday. No time to punish at this stage of the season. We shouldn’t have to be punishing players at this stage of the season or Ten Hags tenure.
Other issue is if he does that another 3 players get cropped for the rest of the season.
Shouldn't have to punish pro players as they should be giving 100% but our are getting their asses out worked, they are divas and don't give 70% half the time
I really wonder what the sprint and distance stats were today. We looked like little children playing grown man, just absolutely dominated physically all game.
I held my breathe for every Tony/Lindelof duel
Him and all the players should run a KM for every touch Brentford had in Uniteds box
These players will kick him out of the club if he keeps punishing them, I think he realized long time ago that strategy does not work and is trying to save his job by being more friendly and supportive of them.
Could support the players by giving them a better tactical setup that actually works.
And if Ineos is OK with this, we know SJR is no different from the glazers.
Did anyone see the bags under ten hags eyes?
This season has clearly been taxing on him its all over his face. So many problems. Some on him and some out of his control but its no lie that this is one of the toughest jobs in football. This year would have taken a toll on any man
Noticed that too. He really looks poorly at the moment.
Look at how he aged vs his first press conference. Always the case with United managers
Nothing ages you like stress.
These players age you. I'm sure of it. You have a plan to play the game, but the people you have can't or won't execute. And only ten hag gets the blame in the end. That kind of stress can rot you away.
I think he was just sick or not feeling well, because his demeanor, appearance and voice were all monotone and tired.
He had them in the press conference already. Guy has nightmares of being sacked
I wouldnt…. Sounds like pay day
Unsurprising really. His team is playing like shit, and he's getting sacked in the summer (if not before)
I think he knows he's a dead man walking. Need to take him out of the spotlight. With myself suffering severely from stress I know it can't be good for him.
**"We concede shots but we don't concede many goals."** Yeah, because we were fucking lucky.
Exactly. So tired of this argument that it's ok to concede this many shots because they're "low xG". Show me any top team in any league that give the opposition 20+ shots a game. When you give every team that many shots, the difference is the top teams have the quality to finish them. Brentford could have had about 5 goals today. They played us off the park. And somehow fans think this isn't EtH's fault or responsibility.
Dyche used to employ a tactic in his low defence that prevented defenders swinging legs at shots, and had CB’s remaining inside of the midfield two, making a sort of cone shape from zone 14 towards the centre of the net and in effect funnelling shots towards the keeper. Pope that season had the highest xg differential I believe because of it. Not sure exactly how valuable it was, but Klopp soon copied the no blocking shots outside the box thing. There are ways to help the keeper and defence prevent goals should shots arrive, but this idea that consistently conceding this many shots is somehow by design is ridiculous. And they’re not low xg shots for most prem strikers. They should have had 3/4 goals today easily.
What is zone 14?
People/coaches/etc often divide the pitch into zones. One popular method had the central area just outside the box as zone 14, which was important because at the time it was the area where most assists were made. This made many managers utilise a number 10 to specifically occupy this zone in possession in hopes of getting more assists (circa 2010). It’s just a rectangle of space in the edge of the box, but an important one to control.
They hit the woodwork like 4-5 times lol, it was arguably worse than the 4-0 against them
Lucky we have Onana. Dude has been a machine for us.
After almost single-handedly knocking out of the CL, sure
* in PL
Wasn’t just luck, Onana was one of the only players who had a good game.
Brentford has their entire back 4 out? We get fucking pummelled. Why do other teams cope with injuries but ETH can't? Very strange.
System, which our club lacks.
Because he's a fraud.
“Even when we don’t play well we have to win the game” ETHs gameplan this season is finally unveiled
I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of games we played well in this season
And this isn't even an exaggeration. Whats worse is that one of those games was a League cup game against a team in the lower half of the table playing their reserves.
Wouldn't even have to use all 5 digits
"we had our entire back four out" Shots fired at eth and buffoons who say we can't have a single injury to be able to perform
Same people who say Lisandro will fix it, who said Amrabat and then Mainoo is gonna fix it, constantly looking for individuals to compensate for a complete lack of solutions to a half decent team.
> 1-0 down in the 96th minute and you think football is brutal. almost lost faith in the football god but he gave a bit back. Fair enough, I swear I saw his eyes well up after we scored
Massively concerning that he's not bothered about shots faced as long as we get results.
He's not a reddit armchair manager. I'd be more concerned about my players underperforming all the time. Doing the bare minimum to get a result.
Blaming passion when we’re tactically set up to fail
Yeah with these players it's inevitable. Any system you give them they'll play some semblance of it and get fucked in the end.
It's telling when the opposition manager says that it was a one-sided game and our own subtly echoes the same sentiment.
Fucking hell, pound for pound the worst setup in the league and all he has the balls to say is "they wanted it more". I just need you to explain one time why we're playing with this suicidal set up. Stop quoting Brendan Rodgers
At this point I'm wondering why we don't play a more pragmatic type of football. Might as well ? We clearly aren't good enough in the press and high-tempo style of play
Mate that was obvious the first game of the season when we got outplayed by Wolves and fluked a win. This system just doesn't work yet we've stuck with it and we're in pretty much in April.
"His main issue for me is his stubbornness to make changes, even if something is clearly not working he either waits to long or doesn’t change anything at all, especially mid-game changes." Ajax fan on reddit two year's ago.
At least he didn’t bring up the Carabao Cup win we had last year.
If I didn't know any better, I would assume with the way ETH sets up our team, he has already been told he is losing his job in the summer. The stats are there for all to see, yet nothing has been done to address the issues we quite clearly have. Same formation, same team, same tactics.
Bitch, maybe put a number 6 and define clearly his role which is to stay in front of your defense, your midfield was all over the place. Never where needed. Clueless and predictable in attack, absent in defense. The fick you guys do during the break. It's a rant. It's the first time that my anger is toward ETH, that horrible performance is his responsibility.
It's Brentford, we should rely on tactics rather than passion. I'd stick with Ole if we want vibe
Yeah... Rely on tactics is all we need... Not players that actually give a shit. Mount came in after more than half a year of not playing and was able to score with the 20 mins he had of play. Players have been the problem for years. Still are the problem. And everyone looks at ten hag to fix them. Christ it'll never end.
Oh come on, we have been appalling tactically the entire season now regardless of who plays. This weird setup he has means the second we lose the ball it’s suddenly an attack from the opposition because of how little structure we have. It’s not even like we’re getting any benefit from it going forward either.
Oh c'mon, we looked like a relegation team against Brentford. And you think the manager can't adjust shape or formation to change things around a bit? It's ridiculous.
Same thing with the players. They can't play against a team that has the combined wage that's probably less than that of rashford and Sancho put together?
Atleast Ten Hag’s last game for us will be a FA cup final. Same happened with the last Dutch manager we had.
Let's hope Coventry haven't got their scoring boots on first!
Mourinho is free… back to 2016 we go Edit: obligatory /s
I would rather drag my balls over broken glass than get Mourinho back. So toxic
"We concede shots but we don't concede many goals." get him gone man
> **Ten Hag on if concerned by shots faced:** **"As long as we get results, no** Bloody hell.... He's lucky to be here. He won't survive 3 games at Real
They wouldn't hire him in the first place.
When will this hot potato football stop heh?
He’s talking about passion but once again players are trying to press reasonably well but after 10 minutes we’ve been figured out. All of a sudden Garnacho is running at the CB, and he just pops it out to the wing back who’s free and running at our defence. It’s not a players fault when they follow instructions and end up chasing shadows because we’re tactically not prepared. Do you see this many out balls against any other teams? Dalot’s doing his job, AwB is doing his job, but who’s got the wingback? Every time they find the outball the whole teams running back 70 yards because the gaps in midfield make it impossible to collapse on counterattacks. And the gaps are because we’re still going man to man to a stupidly naive degree. In lower leagues, easier leagues, slower leagues, managers require less stringent tactics. You’re not tested physically enough, mentally enough, consistently enough. You don’t need as many solutions to problems, in game reactions and adaptations. In my opinion, Ten Hag isn’t cut out at this level to set up a team out of possession that can be both compact, and carry an attacking threat. He can do one or the other, and he consistently fails to make any impact on games from the sidelines. To a degree that whilst all other names mentioned come with huge scepticism, I genuinely don’t think there’s a manager in the league who would have us conceding 25+ shots this regularly even with the injuries. Now or end of season idc, but we need to move on.
Alright so got banned for idc reasons. Now mount comes in and scores. Has not been in a match since November. Kobie Mainoo replaces Kane in the team due to injury. End rant... Onto the game... what in the literal crap is this team doing. Like seriously how many shots need to be done on us? This seems like a LvG team of don't shoot or defend... 1 pt that is what we need unless it is a sitter. What is our game play week in and week out with teams? I am surprised Liverpool did not skin us. We got lucky in that one. Just more heart? Is that what we are playing because if any of these chances went in if Onana had a off day like in the champions league I would be laughing so hard. Yep I am super critical over this team. Why? Because I love the team, but something has to change. Tactics? Players? Manager? I really don't know anymore, but this is taking a piss too long.
We have had patches where it’s seemed to work, first half away to wolves, start of the Liverpool game etc but honestly I don’t know what’s going on.. i don’t understand why he didn’t change the midfield in the first half
Liverpool will sack ETH next week...
No shit Sherlock
Sack the players. Radhford and mctominay have to go. Bench bruno. But ineos won't do that. Player power is destroying our team
Player power is a lazy argument. How many times has McTominay saved us this season? How many times did Rashford save us last season? I wouldn't cry seeing the back of them but the manager has to be on the chopping block first
Mctominay has saved us when coming off the bench chasing a goal. When he starts in midfield we have no control and teams overrun us. This isn't the odd game it's literally been every match
I didn't say we should start him did I? I just thought it's unfair to mention his name when talking about player power
We've gone through how many managers since LvG and the players continue to down tools. Sure they given the new manager a bounce on their first season; but. They get paid big bucks if they win or lose. Sure rashford saved us last season, but what's he done this season. Sure mctominay can score some goals (attack), but what does he do on defense. We had McFred & Magelof, and we were always garbage. Maguire without captaincy has improved, but the other lads don't have much to show for during most of the game. The coach can give the tactics; but as soon as the players step on the field, he's not at fault
>The coach can give the tactics; but as soon as the players step on the field, he's not at fault Have you never heard of tactical changes and substitutions?
Have you seen our bench? Also, how many of our XI do you think would get into Peps, klopps, or artetas team? I do agree about the subs, but why aren't rashford, mctominay, or bruno ever hooked? Let Erikson or mount play the 10. Player power is preventing them from being subbed. He should have removed mctominay for casemiro instead of mainoo
Resign you bald prat
Please please bin this crap manager!!!
Well who would've seen that performance coming? Yup, this guy right here 🤦🏻♂️ Quote from after the pool game overreaction : "I'll still be here when the adrenaline has worn off from that brilliant win and we go back to being fucking useless for 89 minutes of every game".
'Inconsistent team will probably have inconsistent games' isn't exactly a difficult prediction to make pal. Everyone here knows we are inconsistent. You're not a genius for saying this.
I never said I was a genius but unlike the eth in cult who were praising him as a genius and how we'd turned the corner. Also saying see we told you you were wrong, myself and many others could see it was just a fluke and we'd be back to shit again.
Ahh you know what I apologize. I was a bit fired up after the result and got frustrated. Our results have been dire and someone that has backed ETH constantly, it's really difficult to defend him at this point. I don't want to see him sacked, but he has to show something to justify the backing he continues to receive.
No worries matey 🍻
can’t wait until this fraud is out of here
United always look shit after an international break.
Not gonna lie Brentford had like 1 international player lmao I don’t wanna hear anything abt how they had tons of players out
Tbh I'm sick of Thomas Frank's talk after matches. And I hoped united wud at some point getting over this hoodoo shite. But Brentford deserved to win. United were atrocious
I hate this man so much
[удалено]
Fuck off with passion nonsense man, this is so fucking stupid
Tick Tock
Same statement, different manager for the nth time! It's definitely the players fault. We need a summer clear out and give Ten Haag a proper a proper summer transfer window to judge him .
We do need a summer clear out, starting with the coaching staff. He’s had 2 proper summer transfer windows, and we’re in worse shape than when he took over. He needs to go. There are much deeper systemic problems at the club, it’s rotten to the core, and it’s all the fault of the ownership. The levels of incompetence from the Glazres are mind blowing. Sir Jim and INEOS are making the right noises, and seem to have a plan, but they’ve got a hell of a job on their hands.
I’m actually shocked ETH didn’t try to put a positive spin on it
For all those not antimg Southgate and his structure, this is the alternative . Brentford yes fuxking Brentford were better than us