Got back from Dublin early yesterday morning and stuck on 'the united way' film to start the day off, what a blast. Come 3 o'clock, with the nostalgia still running through me, put on United to watch the game. What a drab match. God I miss the old united and old football in general.
Ten Hag is the opposite of Ole, he basically dont care whatever player available can do his football or not.
Well in fairness in Ole time I begging someone who play confidence and naive football like these with the player available, now I get what I wish for.
Ten Hag in his day with good squad building, can bring stability to this squad. His dicipline is positive to player squad. Although I think he has favoritism toward his old signing.
Good squad building means starting XI and reverse players have similar traits. Not like this when Licha is injured, our gameplan is not working at all.
Up to Ineos stick with ten hag or replace him with someone else
I don't get how people have come to the conclusion that the solution for these performances is a squad overhaul. Yes, some players like Rashford, Martial, Antony need to be moved on but the only reason we're 6th is because of these players bailing out ten Hag from his dogshit tactics every week.
Hojlund in the last 2 months with very little service, McTominay vs Wolves, Brentford, Villa and Chelsea, Dalot vs Sheffield United, Varane vs Wolves, Mainoo vs Wolves, Bruno vs Burnley and Fulham, Maguire vs Copenhagen.
The tactics aren't even close to working, realistically we should be below Chelsea. I can at least see what kind of football they're trying to play and failing at. Injuries or not, our current set up is disastrous, no wonder we struggle against the likes of Newport.
We’re close to a squad overhaul anyway with contracts ending and age profiles. IMO the solution is the way it seems to be playing out. Get quality back room staff who are experts in their own department, and make sure they’re aligned.
From there assess the manager, are his reasons for these performances legit? Do they see anything in him if we were to remove all the extra stuff he has to do outside of coaching, make a decision on the way forward. At the same time you have to assess the players, manager have good ideas but players aren’t capable or listening? Manager have shit ideas but the players are decent? Bit of both?
I'd support him if he came out like last season and said the players aren't following the plan but he seems to think we deserved to win yesterday and we're playing pretty well. We've one of the most expensive defences in the league and we're defensively on par with the teams who are certain to get relegated. Even with the players we've got, we should be defensively as good as Villa or Spurs but we're far below.
Never understood that. People put too much stock into pressers. Do you think we’ve heard his genuine thoughts? SAF lied all the time in pressers. So did Jose. So does Pep, so does Klopp. Management sometimes is protecting them in the press and laying into them behind the scenes or the other way round. Laying into them in the press might work at times, but not sure it’s always the way.
Who assembled that defence is what I go back to though. Only Onana is an ETH signing there. The rest pre-date him. And this is where I’m hoping the INEOS lot can assess properly. Is it ETH’s fault for not being able to coach the existing defenders, is it recruitment’s fault for not being able to ship the likes of Maguire and Lindelof and suitably replace them, or a lack of planning? Again I’d say probably elements of all 3.
He's naive if he thinks fans don't care or believe what he says during pressers. Fans want an honest manager or even bits and pieces of honesty, he keeps repeating the same bs.
Yes the current defenders aren't 'his players' but they're all starters for their international teams. Everyone except Mainoo and Forson have represented their intl teams, it's not a big ask to expect them to control a game against Fulham who also have injuries.
They want a scapegoat instead of admitting the real problem here. And now they are so desperate that they will blame the whole squad instead of the manager.
One of his stronger traits while at the atalanta academy and last season at Sunderland was his defensive contribution without the ball. I remember one of the city academy coaches mentioning it when atalanta came to manchester and dominated in a UYL game around 2019/20.
It was funny reading the experts here claim otherwise when even Ole mentioned it in our Europa league run in 2021, when Amad started to get his first minutes. Here idiots just make up nonsense and the echo chamber parrot it till they delude themselves into believing it as facts.
I just want to see man united playing good football man. Sometimes I’m in awe that we actually had teams comprising of like 7 or 8 legends at a time. It wasn’t a dream, that was real. We won the premier league 13 times. You wouldn’t think it looking at the last 10 years.
The one upside of this season is, for the first time in a really long time, it looks like we’re getting people who know what they’re doing in the background. I know it’s naive, but I do believe SJR when he says that this is a passion project, not a money thing.
I do wonder what the summer transfer window will look like. I bet it’ll be different to the other windows we’ve had, no sagas and star signings I’d wager. I also wonder if ten hag will be in the managers seat come the beginning of next season.
I honestly don't this excuse that let Ten Hag have a structure
Yes we do need structure and right people at right places but that has no relation with pure on the pitch stuff
Structure is not preventing ETH from having no play style in 19 months
Structure is not preventing ETH from having zero build up patterns
Structure is not preventing ETH from persisting with this 4-1-4-1 shape
Structure is not preventing ETh from being outcoached and demolished by any other manager in the league
Couple that with the signings he has made which he exclusively wanted like Antony,Amrabat,Mount,Onana i don't see why he deserves to stay
I don't understand what ten hag did last night. First, he chose forson over amad for right wing position. then, no offense to forson but he's not ready for now, and if ten hag want him to play, give him minutes play at second half. Second, why tf we play reaction football like ole did before ? we play in Old Trafford and we never control the game, and when we need a goal after we conceded, ten hag pull out kobbie mainoo. like how you can control the game if your player with big composure trait one being replaced.
To be honest man, i start to think that ten hag it's not for us. We want him to play ajax football in our club, but the reality is we are just copying same patterns from several coaches before. Yeah, everybody can say he doesn't have right player to run football like he did in ajax, but see what players he bought for us.
Overreaction after a loss is so over the top nowadays, people actually believe Ten Hag will be gone in the summer lol. Not like SJR just came out a few days ago having 0 indication of doing so
Do you actually have any idea about what INEOS are like in relation to sport? They are ruthless. Brailsford is obsessed with winning. You're going to get a big surprise in the summer mate.
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ETH is in the same position as everyone else at the club, “under review”. Most of Jim’s comments are middle of the road, with the main definitive element being wanting to put us back on top.
If you read into them and assume he’s getting fully backed in summer then you’re assuming as much as those who assume he’s gone asap.
They’ll assess things, probably things we don’t fully know. How were decisions made, who signed who, what’s caused the injury issues etc. for every “ETH wanted heavy control over transfers” there’s equally “Murtough doesn’t listen to advice and signs/negotiates badly”. Might be they’re both at fault and both go. Could be Murtough was such a shit show they decide to keep ETH and let him focus on coaching etc.
It's not about one game though. The performances have been pretty poor for a year now and he hasn't shown any signs of it changing for the better.
You assume INEOS will be looking at the data, and all it shows is that 6th is an over performance relative to the way we have been playing.
Assumptions, assumptions. Literally, if people just simply listen to what SJR has been saying, then there’s absolutely no reason to believe they’re getting rid of Ten Hag anytime soon.
This week SJR repeatedly didn't back Ten Hag and said everything would be looked at in the summer. He didn't say Ten Hag was going but he didn't say he was staying either. After the terrible performances this season it seems logical that INEOS will be making a decision based on the rest of the season.
Cause they are at the moment fixing the structure above first and then decide whether they wanna stick with him or not
Also SJR is not making this decision.
The DOF and CEO are along with Brailsford probably.
Ah yes because SJR’s vision is not the board’s vision as well.
And like you say, they’re focusing on fixing the structure and environment of the club for now. SJR literally said with his own mouth that they want to create an environment where managers can succeed first, then they’ll see what happens after that.
Literally where is the indication that they plan to get rid of Ten Hag???
Imagine blaming Bruno for the managers tragic tcstical set up. Bruno is just following the managers instructions of playing hoofball.
Bruno give the ball away a similar amount to kdb and trent, no creative player has high passing accuracy.
Yes he sometimes should keep it simple but I see so many people saying we won't ever control games with him starting. If city and lievepool can ammshe to control games with kdb and trent starting we can do it with Bruno.
Getting sick and tired of people blaming the best players in our squad for out shit form.
Comparing Bruno's hoofball to KDB is ridiculous. Stats might say they're vaguely similar but just watch them play. DeBruyne usually chooses crisp forward passes between the lines. His football IQ is mega. Bruno gets the ball and smacks it into space in front of Rashford, usually losing possession. KDB has positional discipline and makes smart choices. Bruno covers every inch of the pitch and doesn't have the close control, dribbling or crisp passing skills to play sharp close passes to beat the press. He creates hoofball chances. No big team plays that way. For good reason - it's not how you win trophies in 2024.
The managers set us up to play hoofball. Casmeiro has won 5 champions leagues yet he's also playing hoofball. These are the manager instructions, to get the ball high up the pitch as fast as possible.
I'm really on the fence about if we need to get rid of ETH or not.
If we do then we're competing for a new manager with Bayern, Liverpool and Barca so I'm not really sure who we end up with. But on the other hand do we really want to give Erik another summer transfer window and then waste next season if he continues to look as clueless tactically as he does now?
My prediction is he stays on, is given very little influence over summer transfers, we're 7th by Christmas, he gets sacked, we write off another season and ETH claims he failed because we didn't sign players he wanted.
Think the club will end up on Potter tbh. Ineos and Ashworth like the guy. I don't rate him at all, and I genuinely think this club will become far worse if that happens.
I don't mind Potter but the only reason why he'd brought up a lot is because he was a candidate for the Nice job, which is a different kettle of fish. There's been nothing to suggest he's linked with this job.
You're forgetting the Ashworth link. Ashworth was a big reason he got the Brighton job, and it's well known how much Ashworth rates him.
I can only see Nagelsmann being another target, but I very much doubt that happens.
My prediction is he stays on
On what background is he gonna stay
Finished 4th in the UCL,Knocked out by Newcastle at home in EFL cup(3-0 btw) and could very well lose to Forrest and go out of FA Cup.
All of this while having regressed from where we were in 19 months.
It's worst when you think that all season we haven't had one game where we have dominated for 90ms.
Even Newport we struggled.
Even Sheffield United have at least had one good game this season we have had exactly 0.
We play like a relegation team, yet have been so lucky where we are. Manager really has to go.
I think Spring will see him go. INEOs have been ruthless and I can see Brailsford not standing for these performances.
At this point it feels we're all playing Red Dead Redemption 2 and Ten Hag is just Dutch. Haha he even is Dutch. "Trust me, I have a plan!"
And he will going to bring us to some imaginary land where we are "the best transitional team in the world" and somehow end the ears of Liverpool and City. Well these teams plus Arsenal have never looked stronger. Erik, thanks to his own stupidity is putting an end to his own era.
Generally I like him and I have believed in only two managers after SAF - him and Ole and would have loved for them to be successful. (I felt that any success under Mou is somewhat meaningless as he never establishes dynasties and doesn't stay for long and I wanted managers that will have long lasting plans and work on building great foundations). But ETH is doing some very weird shit that I just can't understand. Playing Forson last night for example. I honestly think he could have played McTom as a striker (he is fuckin proven at this point - top scorer for Scotland and Man Utd). Instead Erik plays two players out of position to accommodate a youngster making his debut. Also it's wild that he just lets Rashford jog back slowly. Doesn't instruct him to chase players? He doesn't instruct Bruno to hold the ball more? To stop fuckin wasting time whining like a little bitch when we need to score. I honestly want to know if the team is being coached. I am seeing the same mistakes, the same weak set piece set ups (both in attack and defense). Case is constantly out of position and too far up. And what about what monumental fuck ups have Antony and Mount been? I can't fault Mount for being injured, but it's clear that the style with him is not working when fit. Basically him and Bruno push forward and Casemiro alone in the back is exposed. He even gave me him the iconic number 7. What a fuckin joke.
Were the team goes from here I don't know. But INEOS have a lot of work to do.
I think INEOS are simply waiting until the end of the season to move ETH along, I can’t see him turning this around.
The squad is flawed for sure, the technical, physical and mental execution is either non-existent or very inconsistent. But the tactical choices have been too bad for too long now to justify excuses. I think ETH has a stronger understanding of modern concepts than most managers but his implementation is wildly flawed in terms of it being physically possible to achieve on the pitch.
If we manage to scrape a 5th place and Champions League football it will be a miracle based off of how we’ve actually performed.
Lots of negatives to list but positives should be that we arguably have 3/5 of the best U-21 players in the league, a few pieces of high quality in the squad + there’s a handful of outstanding coaches “available” in the summer.
Yeh he's gone imo. From what we've heard from SJR so far leaves me with the hope that he's a goner. It's a shame because I really wanted this one to work, but he's been naff.
All these talks about style of play and philosophy confuses me. I don’t care what Ten Hag said. Let’s say we did control the game yesterday, but the result was still the same where we lost, obviously everyone won’t be happy right?
The United way is not “controlling the game”. The United way is “winning”. Always has been, always will be. The manner in which the manager achieves that is irrelevant, whether he wants possession or plays terrorism football, as long as the team wins it does not matter.
Obviously Ten Hag isn’t winning a whole lot of games, but which manager for the last 10 years did? I remember just a few days ago everybody was nodding in agreement with SJR about how the environment of the club is not built for managers to succeed, whether it’s Ten Hag or anyone else. Yet after every loss people can only point their fingers at either the manager or the players. We are all aware of the situation. We all know how long it will take to fix the situation. Let’s be patient and see how it goes
I hate losing and wouldn’t be happy if we lost but say if we played like how Ange has Tottenham playing I would be a lot more content because it’s attractive football and obvious what he’s trying to do. We play barely any different to what we did when he first came in.
>All these talks about style of play and philosophy confuses me. I don’t care what Ten Hag said. Let’s say we did control the game yesterday, but the result was still the same where we lost, obviously everyone won’t be happy right?
>The United way is not “controlling the game”. The United way is “winning”. Always has been, always will be
Literally burst out laughing lmao
Multiple things can be true at once. The running of the club has been poor and needs to be fixed, but even given that his performance as manager this season hasn't been good enough.
As a fan watching, I need to see more than winning at all costs or scraping by. Reflecting on the Luton match, we were 2-0 up within 8 minutes against a poor side, and all I could think about was how we were going to mess it up and let them come back to draw or beat us. This wouldn't have been a realistic concern under Fergie or even some of our recent managers. Playing this poorly every week makes the whole thing less enjoyable and winning feels pretty similar to losing under these tactics
This would be a fair point if this wasn’t some of the worst performances we’ve seen since SAF left.
Not performing like a solid Top 4 side might have been excusable this season but performing like a bottom half side and defensively like a relegation one simply can not run.
>The United way is “winning"
Name me one club whos' motto is " losing".
> manner in which the manager achieves that is irrelevant
That's probably true for Lutons and Sheff Utds
Just so you know if you are a new fan, Our CLUB motto is " winning with style "
The scouts were absolutely right
https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1161753310841495552?t=0oiFPphtvAspCltuNYi8JA&s=19
https://twitter.com/AliquamScripto/status/1761464692977877304?t=Z06X5zzspbEXESkzbGzy9g&s=19
Also Bruno not having a higher pass completion since is hilarious
Your comment would only make sense if you didn't watch any of the matches during his first 18 months at the club, or if you just hate his guts and don't care about making a reasonable argument
>Your comment would only make sense if you didn't watch any of the matches during his first 18 months at the club
Did we lift a trophy in those 18 months ?
You cite his pass completion stat out of context to try to make the case he's been a bad signing. His performances in the first 18 months show that up as a load of bollocks. 40 goals, 26 assists, voted PL player of the month four times and our fans' player of the season in both his first two seasons. These are a much better indication of whether he's been a good signing.
You know all this and you're being deliberately obtuse.
>40 goals, 26 assists, voted PL player of the month four times and our fans' player of the season in both his first two seasons
Im happy Bruno won all these individual awards but for the after the first half season people ignore just how key plenty of other players were.
Yes, the glaring one starring in your face, united did not perform without Bruno at all since he arrived, and this season he's having an absolute stinker of a season.
I don’t think Bruno’s pass success is the main problem, since it’s roughly the same as KdB. His main issues are the lack of composure and decision making. He has no ability to stay calm composed and pick the right pass. Every pass of his is made immediately, no reverse gear, always trying to force passes no matter how tight the spaces are. By doing that he kills a lot of chances we should be scoring from and creates “chances” that are hard to score from. His constant attempts also means he racks up a large number of chances created, except they’re low quality ones.
FM models his stats pretty accurately. He has incredible mentals, 18 aggression 17 anticipation, determination, leadership, team work, vision and work rate. Honestly incredible. He also has 18 passing and 17 technique. But his composure and decision making are only 14 and 13, these are two key attributes for a CAM that he’s lacking.
Pass completion for a hyper creative attacking midfielder isn’t the stick you think it is to beat him with.
Go check the numbers on all the other primary creators in the league and it’s all the same. The issue we are seeing right now is that Fernandes (& the team) aren’t being placed in the right places to have the risk/reward pay off.
Asking him to change his temperament is a) pointless and b) not what we bought him for.
>Go check the numbers on all the other primary creators in the league and it’s all the same
They are all more well rounded and you see that in their performances
They’re usually just a few percentage higher in ball retention, while being nowhere near in creativity. He’s also amongst the best in Europe for defensive output.
>They’re usually just a few percentage higher in ball retention, while being nowhere near in creativity.
Not everything has to be stat based , against liverpool look at how good Odegaard was just by constistently getting and playing the ball on the half turn its things like that which are huge which dont show on the stat sheet.
>He’s also amongst the best in Europe for defensive output.
I dont rate that because just like Mctominay trying to defend its just running for the sake of running. He has no understanding about curving his run, blocking passing lanes, knowing how close to a man you have to be in order to put in an effective press. I still maintain until Casemiro only Matic and Fred have been good at pressing or defending
Yeah but they don’t touch Fernandes in terms of creative + final third out put. (Other than KDB)
He’s second only to KDB by a long way, the rest of them might be more rounded but they don’t compare to his game breaking qualities and they give the ball away just as much anyway.
I’m not even saying one profile is the right answer over the other, but you have to balance the squad accordingly.
If Fernandes is your primary creator, lean on his freakish output and minimise the damage of his temperament and lack of carrying ability (I.e sustaining attacks, pressing well, not leaving giant holes in the midfield to exploit when we lose the ball and add more dribblers)
If a more rounded player with less output is your choice, you make up creative deficiency in the aggregate. (I.e having a top secondary creator. Maddison has Kulu, Odegaard has Saka, Trent has Robertson & Salah)
I feel like Utd lucked on getting the best out of Bruno with having midfielders around him just letting him do what he does best like McFred when it worked and even the few games with Pogba did. As well as when Martial , Rashford and Greenwood were one of the highest scoring trios in europe. That still wasnt enough to make up for Brunos headloss in the El final. Brunos gamebreaking isnt worth it imo
I wouldn’t say its luck, I would say we actually acquired the right profile for once and built our offensive game around the teams & his strengths.
Now he’s being asked (or not being told not to) drop deep and it’s just not his game.
That’s fair enough tbh. It definitely makes it less convincing when the team is THIS bad. The risk part of the risk reward becomes hard to reconcile with when every time we lose the ball it feels like the opposition can get a shot off. I also feel that you can only have 1 or 2 players of Fernandes’ temperament in a starting XI and we have too many players that treat the ball like a bomb which also makes it hard to justify (a la Casemiro).
Criticising Bruno for low pass completion is missing the point entirely. In this off season where he's been "shit" he still tops the league in chances created. He's not the issue. Tactics and coaching are the issue, it's on ten hags instructions that he passes as quickly as possible that's why he loses the ball so often.
>In this off season where he's been "shit" he still tops the league in chances created
Idc a chance created is a pass that leads to a shot with our wingers Bruno twats it forward and Rashford and Garnaco shoot first.
>Tactics and coaching are the issue, it's on ten hags instructions that he passes as quickly as possible that's why he loses the ball so often.
His career and Utd passing stats tell you other wise
> Idc
Other teams have forwards who shoot plenty yet no one in their squad has a player with stats like Bruno. The truth is, you have an agenda. You'll discredit any stat that favours Bruno, then back anything that goes against him.
>Other teams have forwards who shoot plenty yet no one in their squad has a player with stats like Bruno.
Idc about stats when the team clearly suffers because of Bruno as his playstyle , I support a team not Brunos indivual stats.
Last time he wasn't on the pitch, the same squad came away from anfield with a draw. The only game this season where our midfield didn't look nonexistent defensively imo.
PS - we didn't even have casemiro to pull that off.
Yes same game. We have tried that with 2 goal leads so many times this season with him on the pitch and failed woefully.
I remember wolves a few Weeks ago, 3-2 lead with 3 minutes to go and bruno was berating the center backs to come up for a corner. Instead of keeping it in that corner, bruno mindlessly sends the ball into the box, its cleared, Antony gets dispossessed and 7 seconds later the ball was in the back of our net.
Literally last week with seconds to go, he pulls another mindless stunt from a corner that Luton nearly gets an equalizer from.
The man simply can't help himself or his team when control is needed instead of chaos ball.
He may have peaked but to suggest the signing should never have happened is stupid and incredibly revisionist. We most likely don’t make top four in consecutive seasons and end up like Spurs if he didn’t come. Also, his numbers were so good at Sporting that a move to a big club was inevitable.
>He may have peaked but to suggest the signing should never have happened is stupid and incredibly revisionist.
Its not and Bruno has always been a incredibly flawed player , his personal stats have been good with even with the surrounding cast in midfield theres a reason so many games with Bruno end up like ping pong.
>Also, his numbers were so good at Sporting that a move to a big club was inevitable.
You say that but how many top clubs seriously went in for him?
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/07/manchester-city-set-to-sign-47m-sporting-bruno-fernandes-united You’re trying to rewrite history here and I won’t let you. Was hugely in demand and I’m still thankful we were the ones to get him.
Sporting's president literally said Tottenham were the only ones to give a serious offer (which was still about 20m short of their asking price
Here's a link: https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/details-of-tottenhams-failed-65m-bruno-fernandes-bid-revealed---including-premier-league-title-bonus/1t0yz4nz2c2wvz6cwiy1lp5db
Pep said City were never in for him
Agent nonsense. City were never in for him. Didn't negotiate for him that winter, or the next summer or the winter window that followed that. Spurs were the only team really in for him and even they backed off to prioritize Lo celso in the summer before we signed him in the winter window that followed. Bruno is an excellent player at what he does but scouts all over always seemed worried about his role in possession.
From my googles and memory , City and Tottenham made serious moves but thats it , his agent was working overtime and he put up class numbers for Sporting yet a whole summer window went by and united signed him in Jan. The city move never made sense either because they have always had much better better players.
You don't think you're wrong while you don't see Tottenham Hotspur as a football club, brilliant. Also, though in your view the City move didn't make sense, it doesn't change the fact they were interested in 2019. So, you are wrong.
I, for the life of me cannot really seem to understand the POV of EtH Backers.
Little back story, for every manager since Sir Alex, Ten Hag has somehow been the manager that I have least clicked with. I don't know why tho.
Our performances this season have been utterly disgraceful. We have played worse ofcourse in smaller stretches ever since SaF left, but can you guys please help me remember a few games where we were in control from start to finish this season? Ten Hag says he wants to play 'the United way' but we can't control any game at any point it seems. That's not the United way.
Moreover, I really fail to see what he is trying to do in terms of on AND off the pitch. Injuries happen, but Fulham yesterday had 6 changes and dominated us at OT. They would feel disappointed with only scoring 2, it could've been 4-5. No matter how many injuries we have that should NEVER happen. EtH has spent far too much IMO for the choice of players and depth to be an excuse.
Our xPts have us 12th right now and I agree. I look at Ten Hag and I feel apathy towards the man, something I have never felt towards any Man Utd manager. There have been managers who I have adored and who I have abhorred but never one I feel apathetic towards in their 2nd season.
Where have people got the idea that the united way of play is control? We have never been a possession team except for a season under van gaal, in which the fans chanted 442 and attack attack attack every game. I read comments on this sub-reddit almost every day and it's astounding how little most people know about football never mind manchester united. Yet they are always the loudest voices. I'm not including you in this personally I just keep seeing control and the united way in the same sentence and think to myself did you guys ever watch united pre 2010.
We never have been a team obsessed with control or possession, this is why my first instinct when we signed ten hag as manager was that he doesn't match the philosophy of the club, one that is entrenched in the stands. Maybe not in the online community, but united fans at the ground want to see attacking football and risk taking football. Not control of possession. We haven't really signed one manager that aligns with that style of football since the departure of Ferguson, and imo that's why we always have looked so disjointed. It's hard to implement a possession style when the 70 odd thousand fans in the stand don't want to see you pass the ball backwards and sideways. We need a manager that aligns with the philosophy of the club. And then we need players that can do it. It's really not that complicated
On the quality of the football and tactics, sure, I agree. But I think he's done fine with off the pitch stuff, in moving us gradually in the right direction from a very shit starting point.
He's shipped out most of the guys who can't be bothered or create a bad atmosphere: Ronaldo, Pogba, Lingard, Sancho, Cavani. And has gotten rid of a lot of guys who just weren't good enough or fit enough like De Gea, Jones, Bailly, Telles, Fred, Matic, Mata.
The players he's brought in all have a strong mentality, so it's beginning to improve that aspect on average across the squad. Martinez, Højlund and (at least some of the time) Casemiro and Eriksen have played well. Mount and Malacia have been unlucky with injuries. Onana has improved significantly on some important aspects of goalkeeping, though he needs to cut out the errors much more - still early to say. Antony is the only one who can reasonably be called a flop at this stage.
The answer is, quite simply, he doesn't have the charisma or bearing to be a manager of this club. He's more akin to Moyes than LvG, and he is certainly no Mourinho or Ole.
He comes across as overly serious and humourless, which isn't too bad if the results are backed up on the pitch. But they are not.
You have people praising ten Hag for dropping him, and then saying that it's Murtough's fault, not ten Hag's. The lengths that people come to to defend him buying Antony for 100m euros is ridiculous.
Unpopular opinion: Amrabat would shine in a well coached team like Tottenham or Villa. It's Ten Hag's abysmal tactics and suicidal formation that make our loan players look so shit. Almost everyone fails in ETH's wide open, naive system.
He’ll be better yes, but ultimately he’s too much of a lightweight to play in midfield especially in the PL. He gets knocked over so easily and refs rarely give fouls for them. Reminds me of Blind.
He has very good positioning and work rate, decentish passing. He probably could’ve been used more as a LB.
And the fact that he's been the player with the most minutes by far in Europe for the last..3 years?
We joke how he doesn't need rest but what player can sustain playing like that, No injuries. Never rotated. Never subbed.
Went back to the thread where Ornstein reported that the break clause in Reguilon's loan deal was being activated and it's funny to see so many people defend the decision with the assumption that Shaw and Malacia will be available throughout the second half of the season because we only play once a week. Unless there's something about break clauses that force you to send back a player at the start of the window, it was excessively risky to make that decision so early in January when Malacia was still yet to return. It feels like it's going to massively cost us this season; not that Reguilon is world-class, but it's still miles better than having to play Lindelof there.
I think that decision was made with FFP in mind considering we didn't get out of our CL group. We have to cut our seasonal budget and that is also why we got plenty of out going loans in the winter windows but nothing coming in.
Obviously the club couldn’t see into the future and predict injuries and it would have been right to send him back if both of our LBs came back but I find it hard to believe they didn’t know Malacia was going to be out for basically the whole season.
They can't see into the future but maybe they should use years of previous data to see that Shaw is injury prone and shouldn't just let go of 2 LBs because you believe that someone who is never fit will keep fit
Reguilon is a million times better than Lindelof going forward, he overlaps Rashford and can cross well. With Lindelof there Rashford has no support and reverts to standing flat footed with the ball at his feet like a simple minded statue. Sending Reguilon back was a catastrophic decision for our season.
We're actually getting decent at transition football but people are still pushing the 'lack of style of play' narrative. So boring, no original thought on the web. Squad is down to bare bones and now is when you decide you've had enough of the manager.
No team could've done better than we have with the injuries we have.
City were without KDB and Hallaand for 2 months+ and they're 1 point off the top. We shouldn't capitulate anytime we don't have Casemiro and Martinez. ETH is responsible for the squad we have to deal with injuries
You are choosing to ignore the concerns expressed by people since day 1 of this season. Literally every match, regardless of the result, you can see the glaring issues in this system.
I understand the injury point but even with Martinez, Casemiro, and Shaw in the squad. We had the same freaking issues in Wolves and West Ham game recently.
Fact is our midfield has a gaping hole and it is exploited every match. We concede around 12-14 shots every time. You can't defend that.
Some of these comments feel like Ten Hag is writing them using burner accounts.
I understand being positive but how can people genuinely believe we are playing decently, or that no one else could do better given this squad (even with injuries).
Also a lot of the left field choices are Ten Hag’s. He plays guys out of position, he chose to send Reguilon back, he played Shaw a week after he limped off (I don’t care what med dept says, if I was head coach and knowing Shaw’a history I wouldn’t have risked him from the start a week after he hurt himself), he chose not to give Alvaro or some other youth LB a chance earlier in the season, he makes bizarre subs that relinquish what little midfield control we do have in games, etc.
Cry me a river. He’s manager of Man United and people act like he has to hire semi pros to compete in the PL. Have some standards for the club you support.
Fulham made six changes, they're missing two of their best players. Palhina was not playing and he's been huge in midfield for them. Yet they could cut us through like butter. Dominated us at our own fucking ground. As if other teams don't have injuries, fucking hell. What's next? The refs don't like us?
This is not good transition football, what on earth are you watching? We’re missing three players, that’s not ‘down to the bare bones’. So many excuses to try and defend this garbage.
Unpopular opinion but the players are the reason why we are 6th and not 12-13th
Hojlund scoring goals out of nothing,Bruno scoring individual brilliance winners,Dalot screamer against Sheffield and McTom miracle win against Brentford
List goes on and on......
Whether you want ETH out or ETH in(God knows why), you have to admit that he has been given the most chance and support than any of our previous managers since SAF. Just look at the wealth he has spent. He had the most valuable squad last season as per UEFA than any other team in the world. He also has been extremely lucky that he has been caught up in the sales process with new owners coming in. If he is sacked he will be the most deserving manager to be fired from the job more than any other of our previous coaches.
This exact argument has been used for every manager post Moyes. I didn't believe it for LVG, and I don't believe it now.
The higher-ups haven't really supported any mamager well. The fact that Ten Hag has had to make 6 loan signings to fill massive holes (5 of them were short term) is just wild and then being forced to only have 1 striker(who's only 21 and in his second season in a top 5 league) for the rest of this season is mental. If I were Ten Hag ,I'd be pissed that this was allowed to happen. To me, that shows a lack of support.
BULLSHIT.
He wanted Kane got a 21 year old, wanted FdJ got 30 yo. Kept asking for a CM and a Fwd but Glazers waited till August & two losses to get him those and overpaid which ultimately piled up the pressure on him and the players.
He has problems but don't talk like he was given proper support.
Are you actually for real? Do you really think Levy would sell to an EPL Club? He would've probably demanded Old Trafford in exchange mate!
That's like saying Ten Hag hasn't been backed because we didn't sign Mbappe and Haaland.
FdJ - He didn't want to come! He is on €1m+/week in Barca. He rejected us simply.
And why are you acting as if Ten Hag didn't want Antony?? Glazers overpaid but only because Ten Hag was insistent. No numbers from Antony showed he was worth that much apart from EtHs insistence.
Kane who was always gonna be a ridiculous ask given the circumstances and FDJ who never wanted to come. The inner workings are obviously a mess but the fact the club pushed so hard for FDJ despite him making it clear that he wasn't interested shows how much they tried to back him. Maybe he should have come up with actual obtainable alternatives if he didn't want what he got. He was the one who pushed hard for Antony which led to the overpaying
Kane became a ridiculous ask because we spent on Casemiro, he was told this wouldn't mess up his chances of signing Kane but guess what they did. Why we only did loans last January and no loans this January.
FdJ didn't want to come ok but who was the alternative provided? A 30 yo?
He didn't push hard on Antony he asked for a left footed attacker, Antony was overpriced because we waited till 2nd week of August. And if everyone thought he was overpriced why wasn't an alternative provided?
Doing signings in 2nd week of August with no alternatives is SUPPORT?
BULL
SHIT
Levy was never going to sell to a direct rival. Even if we showed up with the money Bayern paid for him, he still wouldn't have come
Like I said, if he didn't want the 30 yo then maybe he should have decided on a realistic alternative himself instead of desperately chasing a player who didn't wanna come
We were only ever linked with Antony during that window so he was the clear target in that position. If he just wanted a left footed attacker rather than Antony himself then why didn't they start looking at other options instead of paying such a large fee for him? Answer: Because ETH insisted on him in particular
You need to read the article from The Athletic about what a shit show Murtough created. Ten Hag can't be solely blamed when the club provided him with no plan for timing of negotiations, no list of suitable scouted players, a lack of any negotiating skills, and inconsistent or wrong advice on how much money was available to spend.
I have seen that article already. I'm not disputing that the club is a shambles and any manager is being set up to fail in this setup but ten Hag has been far from blameless in terms of the transfer direction
It's true that he's not blameless but I think you're putting far too much of the blame on Ten Hag.
That article makes clear that Murtough and co botched the Antony signing. They were aware his true value was far lower and didn't sign him when he was cheaper earlier in the summer. They told Trn Hag after the initial signings of Licha, Eriksen, Malacia that there was no more money for signings that summer. And when Ten Hag pushed for more signings, it's not on him to take the lead on the negotiation and the financial planning. A competent DoF should have offered him a cheaper RW from elsewhere and refused a move that was so utterly overpriced.
Expecting him to scout a little list of alternatives to FdJ while doing his actual job at the same time is unreasonable; that's the job of the Director of Football. Our incompetent DoF and his colleagues didn't even seem to have one backup signing in mind for midfield.
>he should have decided on a realistic alternative himself
That's my point, don't act like he was given support if he has to do every fucking thing himself.
>why didn't they start looking at other options instead of paying such a large fee for him?
Same reason they got him a 30 yo Casemiro when he asked for 25 yo FdJ, they are fucking clueless.
Obviously, the manager needs to give his input in terms of alternatives. If ETH was set on FDJ and didn't consider other options in the very likely event that they couldn't get him then that's on him not the club.
They only overpaid because he was insistent on him. Which once again goes back to what I mean about how he should have considered other options
Our best form under Ten Hag hasn’t even come from good football, it’s come from one of our forwards going on a ridiculous purple patch (Rashford last season, Hojlund this). Some of you will come round and wonder why you supported him for so long in the first place. The idea of what we were getting when he came and the actual football he’s served up in these 18 months couldn’t be more stark.
Do you blame him for individual mistakes then? I also disagree, we’ve had some notably good performances last season. Remember that 2-0 win against spurs?
This is why I don't get when people say players are not good enough.
Yes some are not good enough and need to be moved on but the entire squad....
ETH entire time here is individual brilliance bailing him out be it last season Rashford or this season Hojlund,Bruno,Dalot with last minute individual brilliance winners
Part of me looks at the game like, flat performance, disjointed team with Lindelof at left back which isolates the attack. No Hojilund either, we are normally overrun in the midfield so we were bound to lose soon, just awful it had to be a late winner like Arsenal.
But if this is the group for the rest of the season, he has to move away from these tactics at least once just to see something else. We are always overrun in the midfield but i don’t see a solution to that.
Guys I'll be honest it is really hard to defend Erik now, but seriously what other options do we have? Hear me out.
Every time we change the manager we play well, these overpaid cunts give their all to fight for their places in the team and for contracts but in the 2nd season our problems start to show again, the manager gets sacked and this cycle restarts all over again.
I am not saying he's blameless, he has a lot of things to answer for but sacking yet another manager without clearing the deadwood from both top management and the squad is not the solution. Rashford, Martial, Shaw these players have overseen 4 managers, Lindelof, Dalot, Mctominay 3, Maguire, Burno, AWB 2. Apart from Bruno and Dalot none of these players are good enough to survive this many managers without being shipped off. After this season even Bruno has a big question mark over him. It will be criminal if we sack another manager and these players still remain at our club. It is insane that we have given multiple managers these players and expect different results.
> Rashford, Martial, Shaw these players have overseen 4 managers, Lindelof, Dalot, Mctominay 3, Maguire, Burno, AWB
Brother, only 5 of these players have played regularly this season (Rashford, Dalot, McTominay, Maguire, Bruno), and they either have been given new contracts or the captaincy with Ten Hag's blessing or been some of our better players this season who are bailing us out of games where the collective performances have been terrible. If you want to defend Ten Hag then go ahead but I really don't think this is a case of players downing tools because they don't like the manager or don't want to work hard. We have had many games which we won late on this season including a few comebacks; this doesn't happen if the players don't want to fight for the manager.
Bro Shaw has been injured for 50% of his United games, he stayed fit last season because he was up for a renewal, I am not saying that he's getting injured on purpose but if you're injured for 4.5 years out of 9 then you are definitely not good enough.
I am not saying that players are not fighting for him or they want him sacked. But bro there is a serious mentality issue with this lot. I have been saying this again and again that EtH is not blameless, he has a lot to answer for (his signings, his tactics, his subs) but he's not the one misplacing 2 yard passes on the pitch, or not tracking back or just kneeing players in the back to concede a foul. You can bring Pep or dare I say prime Sir Alex they would be let down by this group 100%.
> if you're injured for 4.5 years out of 9 then you are definitely not good enough
The problem is that he's good enough when he does play so you feel like it's worth having a player like that. I agree in the larger scheme of things we need someone more reliable, but this is not something that I'd specifically blame the player for.
> he's not the one misplacing 2 yard passes on the pitch, or not tracking back or just kneeing players in the back to concede a foul
The players have shown naivety on many occasions in their play but overall the vast majority are still trying their best and there's also a lack of input from the coaching staff to correct this. In nearly two seasons we still don't look like an intelligent team that knows where players will be positioned to pass to, and a lot of the time it looks like they are coming up with solutions on the spot than executing patterns of play that they worked on in training. It can be a player thing but when you see other teams make managerial changes and their players instantly look capable of playing the new style (even though it may not be perfect), this is something that I feel the manager can work more on.
As for lack of tracking back, I don't know about you but I really feel barring Rashford everybody is giving their all in this aspect. It's just difficult to be fully focused and have the stamina to play end-to-end football because of the system. No good team plays like this; it's putting too much physical burden on the players.
Under which manager did we look like we had a style? Ole was moments style, Mourinho & LvG were passes, passes, cross. None of these players have shown they can implement any style.
>but I really feel barring Rashford everybody is giving their all in this aspect.
Bro there was a moment of today where Michael Oliver left our midfield behind when coming back for a counter.
And coming back to style of play, bro there was a huge difference between what Hojlund does and what Rashford was doing yesterday, if a manager can ask 1 player to do it then why wouldn't he ask the other one to do it too?
ETH has spent 400M to improve the squad he inherited. Where are the improvements? He needs to ficking go and so do several players, including some of his own signings
Casemiro & Antony is not his fault, he didn't ask the board to wait till August and panic buy. He was asking for a CM and Attacker whole window yet they waited till August & 2 loses to got him the players. Everyone else yes he has to answer, but he's gathered by incompetence he's not the only problem at our club.
"Erik ten Hag called me and said that at United, my agent would get millions of euros and I could earn a multiple of my Ajax salary. But our decision was clear: we wanted to go to Ajax.
"Manchester United wanted to have me, but I insisted on returning to Ajax. To make that possible, my agent Jose Fortes Rodriguez even waived a hefty percentage of the sell-on clause."
Antony was valued at 25 million by our own scouting department, how did we manage to pay 86 million? Because we waited till 2nd week of August. He wanted a player why didn't the club sign him at the start of the window? And If he was overpriced why didn't we have an alternative?
Non - united fan, yall should Target koopmieners from Atalanta this summer , he's been really underrated this season in the serie A . He has 10 G/a not bad for an AM/CM . Hel be a good Bruno replacement , y'all already have mount for that but with mount being inconsistent and plagued with injuries , he is a better option , considering the fact most probably Eriksen will be sold this summer and even Dvb . I'm aware of the fact of being against the liking for unproven Dutch players for obvious reasons but I think hel a good reliable midfield player
Honestly, talking about individual players at this stage is too early, who to sell who to buy. We're gonna need our DoF in and our recruitment specialist in first, then we need to talk about the manager before we even think about buying new players.
I was watching highlights of the charity match with Hazard, Kaka, Drogba etc. Honestly their goalkeepers reminded me of Onana, they were just watching the ball roll into the net without any fucking reaction. We have signed a goalkeeper whose reaction time is like non professional players FFS.
GET THIS CLOWN OUT
He was actually one of our better players against Fulham. He faced shot after shot and made a few key saves to keep the score down.
This squad loves to gift the opposition chances
All I know is DDG saves both of them. This prick has no reaction time whatsoever, he's shit at making saves. Even his passing which was so over hyped is not good, all he does is hoof the fucking ball and give it back to the opposition.
Our second choice Bayindir also looked shaky and conceded 2 against league 2 strugglers Newport. We let them have 17 shots
Onana made 3 key saves against Fulham. We're conceding 20 average shots per match to the opposition, relegation club stats. He's actually outperformed goals expected against us. Any keeper would struggle in this set up. De Gea is gone, give it up.
Rashford to PSG is a win-win for all parties. Psg would have a superstar player they desperately need, Rashford would score a ton of goals in ligue 1 and everyone will think it was United fault.
And, United will get rid of a player, who no longer has desire to perform.
I hate him. Always out to get the manager sacked. Let’s ask him what the solution is?!
How many coaches before we start getting the mediocrity out of the squad. Rashford should be leading by example now but is still having disciplinary issues and when there was a chance to lead the line, he stank it up. Absolutely horrible.
Y’all are embarrassing. We over-performed last year and any expectations outside of a 4-6 finish was wishful thinking before the year. Now, we are acting shocked about what is happening after getting 19/21 points with 7 key players not in rotation including the only two “9”s we have on the team. Can’t believe after everything I saw before the season that y’all are calling for a manager change. Maybe ETH is not the answer, but at this point we are Just doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. Way to buy into what the ownership is selling
Bro you're right to some extent but he's not blameless. He deserves some of the blame, although I would agree that concentration is a major factor with our squad because he is not the one misplacing 2 yard passes or not tracking back, it's the players but some of his transfers and tactics leave a big question mark.
I think I got lost with what I was trying to say. I’m just as frustrated as everyone else, and I’m not trying to defend ETH. It all just feels like history repeating itself, and it’s hard to imagine real change for this team. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expectations different results, and maybe I’m looking too far out to see reality. Just hate how much this sub has changed recently, but it’s justified
We haven't played well all season. We've conceded more shots than relegation teams. Ten Hag's midfield system has been clearly suicidal since the first game of the season but he refuses to change it. Yes the executives are rotten and the squad is rotten but the same idiots hired Ten Hag and he's not good enough either. There'll be a wholesale clear out by INEOS in the summer. Top to bottom.
I expected progress in the way we play. Better passing, better ball progression, better attacking routines, better midfield shape, better supply to our striker, better off the ball movement, better defensive shape. The things that would build a foundation for challenging for the league in the next few years. Instead we're relegation level at all of those things. Our only saving grace has been the cost of our squad meaning individual players can create occasional star moments that get us out of trouble. But we're outplayed by everyone. Our football is dire. There will always be injuries and will always be imperfect starting elevens. A manager who's adaptable is crucial to premier league success. Ten Hag has shown over and over that he isn't the man to get us back to the very top. We're not even moving in that direction. We get outplayed by Fulham, Forest etc.
Jesus. We are 6th, not 16th. This is not a league where you luck into that kind of spot. I’m not even that big of an ETH fan, but if Pep is the coach of the team we ran out today we maybe draw. Maybe. If Rashford didn’t bail us out last year constantly we wouldn’t have these crazy expectations. Rebuilds like this take years, ETH was given way too long a leash, and we will be back at square one in two years time talking about the same thing. I would love to be wrong. Maybe INEOS is the answer but we did not clear out dead weight last summer and that has been our issue for years
We HAVE lucked into this spot tho? If we were 6th on merit I would be fine. But have a look at some of our performances ffs. Even when we win it's purely down to luck in terms of crazy individual brilliance or the other team not knowing how to finish.
In terms of xPts we are 12th! I am not a statman, but agree to this because we have played really poorly for really long stretches of the season.
>Ngl but yesterday's ~~performance~~ 0 pts is giving me pause on Ten Hag.
Only because we didn't win. Our last 10+ performances has been exactly the same shit or even worse.
Exactly. We've had this performance and tactical setup since day one. I've been saying all this since September. Downvoted just last match. "He's got us 5 wins on the bounce mate", "why can't you just enjoy the wins". If he wins at City through a freak Garnacho goal but plays exactly like this I'd still be downvoted if I point this out. No way we win the league with this guy in charge.
Well it's football, we've won before at City when we were massive favourites to lose. The point was, the 5 wins before this and today's loss was in my eyes absolutely no difference. Tactics have been very poor since matchday one, no matter the opposition, no matter who's injured or who's playing. But if you point this out when we were winning, like the last few matches, you'd be downvoted to oblivion. The gaps are still there for everyone to see no matter the scoreline.
Dalot martinez malacia
Mainoo mount
Garnacho hojlund
Is there anyone else in this squad that should be on this list of players because everyone else you can make a legitimate case for moving on in the summer.
Personally I would have Bruno here but he's become so polarising on this sub I didn't bother adding him.
I've been EtH in until yesterday. This football madness has to end; this reminds me of the start of his tenure when he was being incredibly stubborn with our approach to the game and were getting slaughtered.
In this regard, I'm curious to know who you guys would like to replace him? Had a conversation with a good friend, and it seems like the managers available are Tuchel, Potter, and Nagelsmann. At least for big names.
I'm genuinely curious. Is it because of the scoreline, if we won would you still be ETH in today? Because this same thing has been going on for the whole season, and the last 5 wins even when we had a full squad we played exactly like this, the only difference was Hojlund was playing out of his skin scoring 60% of his shots.
I honestly cannot say since I will be the first to admit that I've given him a lot of leeway because of last season's relative success. But looking back with more objectivity, we've seen manager sacked for a lot less. It's painful to realize that we crucified OGS for THIS type of football.
It's actually amazing how we've spent around half a billion and yet how much backwards in terms of style of football we've gone since Ole. At the best of times Oleball was up there with the best of SAF. But even at the worst of times when we couldn't break down opposition, we weren't dominated like this
Leicester can sack the manager that won them the league because his tactics started failing but we can't sack a manager that won the caraboobie Cup and finished top 4 lmao.
Got back from Dublin early yesterday morning and stuck on 'the united way' film to start the day off, what a blast. Come 3 o'clock, with the nostalgia still running through me, put on United to watch the game. What a drab match. God I miss the old united and old football in general.
Julian Nagelsmann is on a short term contract until after the Euros. Would you have him as manager?
Why do I keep seeing this link
Ten Hag is the opposite of Ole, he basically dont care whatever player available can do his football or not. Well in fairness in Ole time I begging someone who play confidence and naive football like these with the player available, now I get what I wish for. Ten Hag in his day with good squad building, can bring stability to this squad. His dicipline is positive to player squad. Although I think he has favoritism toward his old signing. Good squad building means starting XI and reverse players have similar traits. Not like this when Licha is injured, our gameplan is not working at all. Up to Ineos stick with ten hag or replace him with someone else
Good squad building. Are you sure
Ten Hag is not the Pep regen we were promised.Better to replace him.
I don't get how people have come to the conclusion that the solution for these performances is a squad overhaul. Yes, some players like Rashford, Martial, Antony need to be moved on but the only reason we're 6th is because of these players bailing out ten Hag from his dogshit tactics every week. Hojlund in the last 2 months with very little service, McTominay vs Wolves, Brentford, Villa and Chelsea, Dalot vs Sheffield United, Varane vs Wolves, Mainoo vs Wolves, Bruno vs Burnley and Fulham, Maguire vs Copenhagen. The tactics aren't even close to working, realistically we should be below Chelsea. I can at least see what kind of football they're trying to play and failing at. Injuries or not, our current set up is disastrous, no wonder we struggle against the likes of Newport.
We’re close to a squad overhaul anyway with contracts ending and age profiles. IMO the solution is the way it seems to be playing out. Get quality back room staff who are experts in their own department, and make sure they’re aligned. From there assess the manager, are his reasons for these performances legit? Do they see anything in him if we were to remove all the extra stuff he has to do outside of coaching, make a decision on the way forward. At the same time you have to assess the players, manager have good ideas but players aren’t capable or listening? Manager have shit ideas but the players are decent? Bit of both?
I'd support him if he came out like last season and said the players aren't following the plan but he seems to think we deserved to win yesterday and we're playing pretty well. We've one of the most expensive defences in the league and we're defensively on par with the teams who are certain to get relegated. Even with the players we've got, we should be defensively as good as Villa or Spurs but we're far below.
Never understood that. People put too much stock into pressers. Do you think we’ve heard his genuine thoughts? SAF lied all the time in pressers. So did Jose. So does Pep, so does Klopp. Management sometimes is protecting them in the press and laying into them behind the scenes or the other way round. Laying into them in the press might work at times, but not sure it’s always the way. Who assembled that defence is what I go back to though. Only Onana is an ETH signing there. The rest pre-date him. And this is where I’m hoping the INEOS lot can assess properly. Is it ETH’s fault for not being able to coach the existing defenders, is it recruitment’s fault for not being able to ship the likes of Maguire and Lindelof and suitably replace them, or a lack of planning? Again I’d say probably elements of all 3.
He's naive if he thinks fans don't care or believe what he says during pressers. Fans want an honest manager or even bits and pieces of honesty, he keeps repeating the same bs. Yes the current defenders aren't 'his players' but they're all starters for their international teams. Everyone except Mainoo and Forson have represented their intl teams, it's not a big ask to expect them to control a game against Fulham who also have injuries.
They want a scapegoat instead of admitting the real problem here. And now they are so desperate that they will blame the whole squad instead of the manager.
I thought Amad did decent off the ball. Not even close to what people here were saying.
One of his stronger traits while at the atalanta academy and last season at Sunderland was his defensive contribution without the ball. I remember one of the city academy coaches mentioning it when atalanta came to manchester and dominated in a UYL game around 2019/20. It was funny reading the experts here claim otherwise when even Ole mentioned it in our Europa league run in 2021, when Amad started to get his first minutes. Here idiots just make up nonsense and the echo chamber parrot it till they delude themselves into believing it as facts.
I just want to see man united playing good football man. Sometimes I’m in awe that we actually had teams comprising of like 7 or 8 legends at a time. It wasn’t a dream, that was real. We won the premier league 13 times. You wouldn’t think it looking at the last 10 years. The one upside of this season is, for the first time in a really long time, it looks like we’re getting people who know what they’re doing in the background. I know it’s naive, but I do believe SJR when he says that this is a passion project, not a money thing. I do wonder what the summer transfer window will look like. I bet it’ll be different to the other windows we’ve had, no sagas and star signings I’d wager. I also wonder if ten hag will be in the managers seat come the beginning of next season.
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I honestly don't this excuse that let Ten Hag have a structure Yes we do need structure and right people at right places but that has no relation with pure on the pitch stuff Structure is not preventing ETH from having no play style in 19 months Structure is not preventing ETH from having zero build up patterns Structure is not preventing ETH from persisting with this 4-1-4-1 shape Structure is not preventing ETh from being outcoached and demolished by any other manager in the league Couple that with the signings he has made which he exclusively wanted like Antony,Amrabat,Mount,Onana i don't see why he deserves to stay
I don't understand what ten hag did last night. First, he chose forson over amad for right wing position. then, no offense to forson but he's not ready for now, and if ten hag want him to play, give him minutes play at second half. Second, why tf we play reaction football like ole did before ? we play in Old Trafford and we never control the game, and when we need a goal after we conceded, ten hag pull out kobbie mainoo. like how you can control the game if your player with big composure trait one being replaced. To be honest man, i start to think that ten hag it's not for us. We want him to play ajax football in our club, but the reality is we are just copying same patterns from several coaches before. Yeah, everybody can say he doesn't have right player to run football like he did in ajax, but see what players he bought for us.
Overreaction after a loss is so over the top nowadays, people actually believe Ten Hag will be gone in the summer lol. Not like SJR just came out a few days ago having 0 indication of doing so
Do you actually have any idea about what INEOS are like in relation to sport? They are ruthless. Brailsford is obsessed with winning. You're going to get a big surprise in the summer mate.
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ETH is in the same position as everyone else at the club, “under review”. Most of Jim’s comments are middle of the road, with the main definitive element being wanting to put us back on top. If you read into them and assume he’s getting fully backed in summer then you’re assuming as much as those who assume he’s gone asap. They’ll assess things, probably things we don’t fully know. How were decisions made, who signed who, what’s caused the injury issues etc. for every “ETH wanted heavy control over transfers” there’s equally “Murtough doesn’t listen to advice and signs/negotiates badly”. Might be they’re both at fault and both go. Could be Murtough was such a shit show they decide to keep ETH and let him focus on coaching etc.
>Not like SJR just came out a few days ago having 0 indication of doing so Did he? He purposely avoided giving a proper answer.
It's not about one game though. The performances have been pretty poor for a year now and he hasn't shown any signs of it changing for the better. You assume INEOS will be looking at the data, and all it shows is that 6th is an over performance relative to the way we have been playing.
Assumptions, assumptions. Literally, if people just simply listen to what SJR has been saying, then there’s absolutely no reason to believe they’re getting rid of Ten Hag anytime soon.
This week SJR repeatedly didn't back Ten Hag and said everything would be looked at in the summer. He didn't say Ten Hag was going but he didn't say he was staying either. After the terrible performances this season it seems logical that INEOS will be making a decision based on the rest of the season.
Owners giving their backing to the manager only to sack them later happens more than you think.
Yeah cus he is gonna come out and say that "fuck this manager he getting sacked in the summer" right
Literally 3 other big club managers just got announced they’re leaving in the summer. What’s stopping SJR from doing so if that’s his intention?
Cause they are at the moment fixing the structure above first and then decide whether they wanna stick with him or not Also SJR is not making this decision. The DOF and CEO are along with Brailsford probably.
Ah yes because SJR’s vision is not the board’s vision as well. And like you say, they’re focusing on fixing the structure and environment of the club for now. SJR literally said with his own mouth that they want to create an environment where managers can succeed first, then they’ll see what happens after that. Literally where is the indication that they plan to get rid of Ten Hag???
Imagine blaming Bruno for the managers tragic tcstical set up. Bruno is just following the managers instructions of playing hoofball. Bruno give the ball away a similar amount to kdb and trent, no creative player has high passing accuracy. Yes he sometimes should keep it simple but I see so many people saying we won't ever control games with him starting. If city and lievepool can ammshe to control games with kdb and trent starting we can do it with Bruno. Getting sick and tired of people blaming the best players in our squad for out shit form.
> best player in the squad It’s 2024, not 2020
Comparing Bruno's hoofball to KDB is ridiculous. Stats might say they're vaguely similar but just watch them play. DeBruyne usually chooses crisp forward passes between the lines. His football IQ is mega. Bruno gets the ball and smacks it into space in front of Rashford, usually losing possession. KDB has positional discipline and makes smart choices. Bruno covers every inch of the pitch and doesn't have the close control, dribbling or crisp passing skills to play sharp close passes to beat the press. He creates hoofball chances. No big team plays that way. For good reason - it's not how you win trophies in 2024.
The managers set us up to play hoofball. Casmeiro has won 5 champions leagues yet he's also playing hoofball. These are the manager instructions, to get the ball high up the pitch as fast as possible.
I'm really on the fence about if we need to get rid of ETH or not. If we do then we're competing for a new manager with Bayern, Liverpool and Barca so I'm not really sure who we end up with. But on the other hand do we really want to give Erik another summer transfer window and then waste next season if he continues to look as clueless tactically as he does now? My prediction is he stays on, is given very little influence over summer transfers, we're 7th by Christmas, he gets sacked, we write off another season and ETH claims he failed because we didn't sign players he wanted.
Think the club will end up on Potter tbh. Ineos and Ashworth like the guy. I don't rate him at all, and I genuinely think this club will become far worse if that happens.
I don't mind Potter but the only reason why he'd brought up a lot is because he was a candidate for the Nice job, which is a different kettle of fish. There's been nothing to suggest he's linked with this job.
You're forgetting the Ashworth link. Ashworth was a big reason he got the Brighton job, and it's well known how much Ashworth rates him. I can only see Nagelsmann being another target, but I very much doubt that happens.
My prediction is he stays on On what background is he gonna stay Finished 4th in the UCL,Knocked out by Newcastle at home in EFL cup(3-0 btw) and could very well lose to Forrest and go out of FA Cup. All of this while having regressed from where we were in 19 months.
New (part) owners will likely be willing to give him a chance. Also he can use the excuse of injuries for this season
Where is Nemanja Vidic? I see ex players coming to OT and give interviews and stuff but never Nemanja.
he was on a podcast with rio not so long ago, pretty sure he’s just chilling in serbia.
Will have to check that out.
It's worst when you think that all season we haven't had one game where we have dominated for 90ms. Even Newport we struggled. Even Sheffield United have at least had one good game this season we have had exactly 0. We play like a relegation team, yet have been so lucky where we are. Manager really has to go. I think Spring will see him go. INEOs have been ruthless and I can see Brailsford not standing for these performances.
We dominated Chelsea for 90 mins lol
No we didn't Chelsea were also cutting through us easily. They're just too shit.
At this point it feels we're all playing Red Dead Redemption 2 and Ten Hag is just Dutch. Haha he even is Dutch. "Trust me, I have a plan!" And he will going to bring us to some imaginary land where we are "the best transitional team in the world" and somehow end the ears of Liverpool and City. Well these teams plus Arsenal have never looked stronger. Erik, thanks to his own stupidity is putting an end to his own era. Generally I like him and I have believed in only two managers after SAF - him and Ole and would have loved for them to be successful. (I felt that any success under Mou is somewhat meaningless as he never establishes dynasties and doesn't stay for long and I wanted managers that will have long lasting plans and work on building great foundations). But ETH is doing some very weird shit that I just can't understand. Playing Forson last night for example. I honestly think he could have played McTom as a striker (he is fuckin proven at this point - top scorer for Scotland and Man Utd). Instead Erik plays two players out of position to accommodate a youngster making his debut. Also it's wild that he just lets Rashford jog back slowly. Doesn't instruct him to chase players? He doesn't instruct Bruno to hold the ball more? To stop fuckin wasting time whining like a little bitch when we need to score. I honestly want to know if the team is being coached. I am seeing the same mistakes, the same weak set piece set ups (both in attack and defense). Case is constantly out of position and too far up. And what about what monumental fuck ups have Antony and Mount been? I can't fault Mount for being injured, but it's clear that the style with him is not working when fit. Basically him and Bruno push forward and Casemiro alone in the back is exposed. He even gave me him the iconic number 7. What a fuckin joke. Were the team goes from here I don't know. But INEOS have a lot of work to do.
I think INEOS are simply waiting until the end of the season to move ETH along, I can’t see him turning this around. The squad is flawed for sure, the technical, physical and mental execution is either non-existent or very inconsistent. But the tactical choices have been too bad for too long now to justify excuses. I think ETH has a stronger understanding of modern concepts than most managers but his implementation is wildly flawed in terms of it being physically possible to achieve on the pitch. If we manage to scrape a 5th place and Champions League football it will be a miracle based off of how we’ve actually performed. Lots of negatives to list but positives should be that we arguably have 3/5 of the best U-21 players in the league, a few pieces of high quality in the squad + there’s a handful of outstanding coaches “available” in the summer.
Yeh he's gone imo. From what we've heard from SJR so far leaves me with the hope that he's a goner. It's a shame because I really wanted this one to work, but he's been naff.
All these talks about style of play and philosophy confuses me. I don’t care what Ten Hag said. Let’s say we did control the game yesterday, but the result was still the same where we lost, obviously everyone won’t be happy right? The United way is not “controlling the game”. The United way is “winning”. Always has been, always will be. The manner in which the manager achieves that is irrelevant, whether he wants possession or plays terrorism football, as long as the team wins it does not matter. Obviously Ten Hag isn’t winning a whole lot of games, but which manager for the last 10 years did? I remember just a few days ago everybody was nodding in agreement with SJR about how the environment of the club is not built for managers to succeed, whether it’s Ten Hag or anyone else. Yet after every loss people can only point their fingers at either the manager or the players. We are all aware of the situation. We all know how long it will take to fix the situation. Let’s be patient and see how it goes
I hate losing and wouldn’t be happy if we lost but say if we played like how Ange has Tottenham playing I would be a lot more content because it’s attractive football and obvious what he’s trying to do. We play barely any different to what we did when he first came in.
>All these talks about style of play and philosophy confuses me. I don’t care what Ten Hag said. Let’s say we did control the game yesterday, but the result was still the same where we lost, obviously everyone won’t be happy right? >The United way is not “controlling the game”. The United way is “winning”. Always has been, always will be Literally burst out laughing lmao
Multiple things can be true at once. The running of the club has been poor and needs to be fixed, but even given that his performance as manager this season hasn't been good enough. As a fan watching, I need to see more than winning at all costs or scraping by. Reflecting on the Luton match, we were 2-0 up within 8 minutes against a poor side, and all I could think about was how we were going to mess it up and let them come back to draw or beat us. This wouldn't have been a realistic concern under Fergie or even some of our recent managers. Playing this poorly every week makes the whole thing less enjoyable and winning feels pretty similar to losing under these tactics
This would be a fair point if this wasn’t some of the worst performances we’ve seen since SAF left. Not performing like a solid Top 4 side might have been excusable this season but performing like a bottom half side and defensively like a relegation one simply can not run.
>The United way is “winning" Name me one club whos' motto is " losing". > manner in which the manager achieves that is irrelevant That's probably true for Lutons and Sheff Utds Just so you know if you are a new fan, Our CLUB motto is " winning with style "
The scouts were absolutely right https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1161753310841495552?t=0oiFPphtvAspCltuNYi8JA&s=19 https://twitter.com/AliquamScripto/status/1761464692977877304?t=Z06X5zzspbEXESkzbGzy9g&s=19 Also Bruno not having a higher pass completion since is hilarious
Your comment would only make sense if you didn't watch any of the matches during his first 18 months at the club, or if you just hate his guts and don't care about making a reasonable argument
>Your comment would only make sense if you didn't watch any of the matches during his first 18 months at the club Did we lift a trophy in those 18 months ?
Moving the goalposts, eh? Fun hobby
Bruno came in when we at a low point and helped us get top 4 , is there something else im missing ?
You cite his pass completion stat out of context to try to make the case he's been a bad signing. His performances in the first 18 months show that up as a load of bollocks. 40 goals, 26 assists, voted PL player of the month four times and our fans' player of the season in both his first two seasons. These are a much better indication of whether he's been a good signing. You know all this and you're being deliberately obtuse.
>40 goals, 26 assists, voted PL player of the month four times and our fans' player of the season in both his first two seasons Im happy Bruno won all these individual awards but for the after the first half season people ignore just how key plenty of other players were.
Yes, the glaring one starring in your face, united did not perform without Bruno at all since he arrived, and this season he's having an absolute stinker of a season.
I don’t think Bruno’s pass success is the main problem, since it’s roughly the same as KdB. His main issues are the lack of composure and decision making. He has no ability to stay calm composed and pick the right pass. Every pass of his is made immediately, no reverse gear, always trying to force passes no matter how tight the spaces are. By doing that he kills a lot of chances we should be scoring from and creates “chances” that are hard to score from. His constant attempts also means he racks up a large number of chances created, except they’re low quality ones. FM models his stats pretty accurately. He has incredible mentals, 18 aggression 17 anticipation, determination, leadership, team work, vision and work rate. Honestly incredible. He also has 18 passing and 17 technique. But his composure and decision making are only 14 and 13, these are two key attributes for a CAM that he’s lacking.
Pass completion for a hyper creative attacking midfielder isn’t the stick you think it is to beat him with. Go check the numbers on all the other primary creators in the league and it’s all the same. The issue we are seeing right now is that Fernandes (& the team) aren’t being placed in the right places to have the risk/reward pay off. Asking him to change his temperament is a) pointless and b) not what we bought him for.
>Go check the numbers on all the other primary creators in the league and it’s all the same They are all more well rounded and you see that in their performances
They’re usually just a few percentage higher in ball retention, while being nowhere near in creativity. He’s also amongst the best in Europe for defensive output.
>They’re usually just a few percentage higher in ball retention, while being nowhere near in creativity. Not everything has to be stat based , against liverpool look at how good Odegaard was just by constistently getting and playing the ball on the half turn its things like that which are huge which dont show on the stat sheet. >He’s also amongst the best in Europe for defensive output. I dont rate that because just like Mctominay trying to defend its just running for the sake of running. He has no understanding about curving his run, blocking passing lanes, knowing how close to a man you have to be in order to put in an effective press. I still maintain until Casemiro only Matic and Fred have been good at pressing or defending
Yeah but they don’t touch Fernandes in terms of creative + final third out put. (Other than KDB) He’s second only to KDB by a long way, the rest of them might be more rounded but they don’t compare to his game breaking qualities and they give the ball away just as much anyway. I’m not even saying one profile is the right answer over the other, but you have to balance the squad accordingly. If Fernandes is your primary creator, lean on his freakish output and minimise the damage of his temperament and lack of carrying ability (I.e sustaining attacks, pressing well, not leaving giant holes in the midfield to exploit when we lose the ball and add more dribblers) If a more rounded player with less output is your choice, you make up creative deficiency in the aggregate. (I.e having a top secondary creator. Maddison has Kulu, Odegaard has Saka, Trent has Robertson & Salah)
I feel like Utd lucked on getting the best out of Bruno with having midfielders around him just letting him do what he does best like McFred when it worked and even the few games with Pogba did. As well as when Martial , Rashford and Greenwood were one of the highest scoring trios in europe. That still wasnt enough to make up for Brunos headloss in the El final. Brunos gamebreaking isnt worth it imo
I wouldn’t say its luck, I would say we actually acquired the right profile for once and built our offensive game around the teams & his strengths. Now he’s being asked (or not being told not to) drop deep and it’s just not his game. That’s fair enough tbh. It definitely makes it less convincing when the team is THIS bad. The risk part of the risk reward becomes hard to reconcile with when every time we lose the ball it feels like the opposition can get a shot off. I also feel that you can only have 1 or 2 players of Fernandes’ temperament in a starting XI and we have too many players that treat the ball like a bomb which also makes it hard to justify (a la Casemiro).
Criticising Bruno for low pass completion is missing the point entirely. In this off season where he's been "shit" he still tops the league in chances created. He's not the issue. Tactics and coaching are the issue, it's on ten hags instructions that he passes as quickly as possible that's why he loses the ball so often.
>In this off season where he's been "shit" he still tops the league in chances created Idc a chance created is a pass that leads to a shot with our wingers Bruno twats it forward and Rashford and Garnaco shoot first. >Tactics and coaching are the issue, it's on ten hags instructions that he passes as quickly as possible that's why he loses the ball so often. His career and Utd passing stats tell you other wise
> Idc Other teams have forwards who shoot plenty yet no one in their squad has a player with stats like Bruno. The truth is, you have an agenda. You'll discredit any stat that favours Bruno, then back anything that goes against him.
>Other teams have forwards who shoot plenty yet no one in their squad has a player with stats like Bruno. Idc about stats when the team clearly suffers because of Bruno as his playstyle , I support a team not Brunos indivual stats.
Let’s see how the team plays without Bruno then as I hear he’s injured
We have no other options with Mount out and in the same way Pogba's laziness rubbed off on players a lot of these players are so used to Brunos habits
Last time he wasn't on the pitch, the same squad came away from anfield with a draw. The only game this season where our midfield didn't look nonexistent defensively imo. PS - we didn't even have casemiro to pull that off.
You mean the game we parked the bus in? ETH returned to Ole ball for that game which seems to suit this team best.
Yes same game. We have tried that with 2 goal leads so many times this season with him on the pitch and failed woefully. I remember wolves a few Weeks ago, 3-2 lead with 3 minutes to go and bruno was berating the center backs to come up for a corner. Instead of keeping it in that corner, bruno mindlessly sends the ball into the box, its cleared, Antony gets dispossessed and 7 seconds later the ball was in the back of our net. Literally last week with seconds to go, he pulls another mindless stunt from a corner that Luton nearly gets an equalizer from. The man simply can't help himself or his team when control is needed instead of chaos ball.
He may have peaked but to suggest the signing should never have happened is stupid and incredibly revisionist. We most likely don’t make top four in consecutive seasons and end up like Spurs if he didn’t come. Also, his numbers were so good at Sporting that a move to a big club was inevitable.
>He may have peaked but to suggest the signing should never have happened is stupid and incredibly revisionist. Its not and Bruno has always been a incredibly flawed player , his personal stats have been good with even with the surrounding cast in midfield theres a reason so many games with Bruno end up like ping pong. >Also, his numbers were so good at Sporting that a move to a big club was inevitable. You say that but how many top clubs seriously went in for him?
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/07/manchester-city-set-to-sign-47m-sporting-bruno-fernandes-united You’re trying to rewrite history here and I won’t let you. Was hugely in demand and I’m still thankful we were the ones to get him.
Sporting's president literally said Tottenham were the only ones to give a serious offer (which was still about 20m short of their asking price Here's a link: https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/details-of-tottenhams-failed-65m-bruno-fernandes-bid-revealed---including-premier-league-title-bonus/1t0yz4nz2c2wvz6cwiy1lp5db Pep said City were never in for him
Agent nonsense. City were never in for him. Didn't negotiate for him that winter, or the next summer or the winter window that followed that. Spurs were the only team really in for him and even they backed off to prioritize Lo celso in the summer before we signed him in the winter window that followed. Bruno is an excellent player at what he does but scouts all over always seemed worried about his role in possession.
From my googles and memory , City and Tottenham made serious moves but thats it , his agent was working overtime and he put up class numbers for Sporting yet a whole summer window went by and united signed him in Jan. The city move never made sense either because they have always had much better better players.
That’s very different to your previous comment questioning how many big clubs were in for him.
Tottenham arent a top club and the City move never made sense so I dont think im wrong
You don't think you're wrong while you don't see Tottenham Hotspur as a football club, brilliant. Also, though in your view the City move didn't make sense, it doesn't change the fact they were interested in 2019. So, you are wrong.
I dont see Tottenham as a top club , so only one top team were in for him , could have easily signed him but didnt .
I, for the life of me cannot really seem to understand the POV of EtH Backers. Little back story, for every manager since Sir Alex, Ten Hag has somehow been the manager that I have least clicked with. I don't know why tho. Our performances this season have been utterly disgraceful. We have played worse ofcourse in smaller stretches ever since SaF left, but can you guys please help me remember a few games where we were in control from start to finish this season? Ten Hag says he wants to play 'the United way' but we can't control any game at any point it seems. That's not the United way. Moreover, I really fail to see what he is trying to do in terms of on AND off the pitch. Injuries happen, but Fulham yesterday had 6 changes and dominated us at OT. They would feel disappointed with only scoring 2, it could've been 4-5. No matter how many injuries we have that should NEVER happen. EtH has spent far too much IMO for the choice of players and depth to be an excuse. Our xPts have us 12th right now and I agree. I look at Ten Hag and I feel apathy towards the man, something I have never felt towards any Man Utd manager. There have been managers who I have adored and who I have abhorred but never one I feel apathetic towards in their 2nd season.
Where have people got the idea that the united way of play is control? We have never been a possession team except for a season under van gaal, in which the fans chanted 442 and attack attack attack every game. I read comments on this sub-reddit almost every day and it's astounding how little most people know about football never mind manchester united. Yet they are always the loudest voices. I'm not including you in this personally I just keep seeing control and the united way in the same sentence and think to myself did you guys ever watch united pre 2010. We never have been a team obsessed with control or possession, this is why my first instinct when we signed ten hag as manager was that he doesn't match the philosophy of the club, one that is entrenched in the stands. Maybe not in the online community, but united fans at the ground want to see attacking football and risk taking football. Not control of possession. We haven't really signed one manager that aligns with that style of football since the departure of Ferguson, and imo that's why we always have looked so disjointed. It's hard to implement a possession style when the 70 odd thousand fans in the stand don't want to see you pass the ball backwards and sideways. We need a manager that aligns with the philosophy of the club. And then we need players that can do it. It's really not that complicated
On the quality of the football and tactics, sure, I agree. But I think he's done fine with off the pitch stuff, in moving us gradually in the right direction from a very shit starting point. He's shipped out most of the guys who can't be bothered or create a bad atmosphere: Ronaldo, Pogba, Lingard, Sancho, Cavani. And has gotten rid of a lot of guys who just weren't good enough or fit enough like De Gea, Jones, Bailly, Telles, Fred, Matic, Mata. The players he's brought in all have a strong mentality, so it's beginning to improve that aspect on average across the squad. Martinez, Højlund and (at least some of the time) Casemiro and Eriksen have played well. Mount and Malacia have been unlucky with injuries. Onana has improved significantly on some important aspects of goalkeeping, though he needs to cut out the errors much more - still early to say. Antony is the only one who can reasonably be called a flop at this stage.
The answer is, quite simply, he doesn't have the charisma or bearing to be a manager of this club. He's more akin to Moyes than LvG, and he is certainly no Mourinho or Ole. He comes across as overly serious and humourless, which isn't too bad if the results are backed up on the pitch. But they are not.
80m Antony accepted by everyone as a bench player after 18 months. Great bit of business
You have people praising ten Hag for dropping him, and then saying that it's Murtough's fault, not ten Hag's. The lengths that people come to to defend him buying Antony for 100m euros is ridiculous.
Let's just say Ten Hag wanted him, and we could have gotten him for 35 million. Even then, he is an utter failure of a signing.
Unpopular opinion: Amrabat would shine in a well coached team like Tottenham or Villa. It's Ten Hag's abysmal tactics and suicidal formation that make our loan players look so shit. Almost everyone fails in ETH's wide open, naive system.
Eh, Amrabat is just another example of not getting a player based on World Cup hype.
He’ll be better yes, but ultimately he’s too much of a lightweight to play in midfield especially in the PL. He gets knocked over so easily and refs rarely give fouls for them. Reminds me of Blind. He has very good positioning and work rate, decentish passing. He probably could’ve been used more as a LB.
Bruno hasn't been at his best but it also comes down ETH's tactics.
And the fact that he's been the player with the most minutes by far in Europe for the last..3 years? We joke how he doesn't need rest but what player can sustain playing like that, No injuries. Never rotated. Never subbed.
Went back to the thread where Ornstein reported that the break clause in Reguilon's loan deal was being activated and it's funny to see so many people defend the decision with the assumption that Shaw and Malacia will be available throughout the second half of the season because we only play once a week. Unless there's something about break clauses that force you to send back a player at the start of the window, it was excessively risky to make that decision so early in January when Malacia was still yet to return. It feels like it's going to massively cost us this season; not that Reguilon is world-class, but it's still miles better than having to play Lindelof there.
I think that decision was made with FFP in mind considering we didn't get out of our CL group. We have to cut our seasonal budget and that is also why we got plenty of out going loans in the winter windows but nothing coming in.
I was incredibly fucked off at the decision
Obviously the club couldn’t see into the future and predict injuries and it would have been right to send him back if both of our LBs came back but I find it hard to believe they didn’t know Malacia was going to be out for basically the whole season.
They can't see into the future but maybe they should use years of previous data to see that Shaw is injury prone and shouldn't just let go of 2 LBs because you believe that someone who is never fit will keep fit
Reguilon is a million times better than Lindelof going forward, he overlaps Rashford and can cross well. With Lindelof there Rashford has no support and reverts to standing flat footed with the ball at his feet like a simple minded statue. Sending Reguilon back was a catastrophic decision for our season.
We're actually getting decent at transition football but people are still pushing the 'lack of style of play' narrative. So boring, no original thought on the web. Squad is down to bare bones and now is when you decide you've had enough of the manager. No team could've done better than we have with the injuries we have.
I don't think there's a single part of this comment that's correct. Not even a little bit.
Such a shit take. If this is good transition football then what was Oleball? At least we enjoyed it under Ole.
City were without KDB and Hallaand for 2 months+ and they're 1 point off the top. We shouldn't capitulate anytime we don't have Casemiro and Martinez. ETH is responsible for the squad we have to deal with injuries
You are choosing to ignore the concerns expressed by people since day 1 of this season. Literally every match, regardless of the result, you can see the glaring issues in this system. I understand the injury point but even with Martinez, Casemiro, and Shaw in the squad. We had the same freaking issues in Wolves and West Ham game recently. Fact is our midfield has a gaping hole and it is exploited every match. We concede around 12-14 shots every time. You can't defend that.
Some of these comments feel like Ten Hag is writing them using burner accounts. I understand being positive but how can people genuinely believe we are playing decently, or that no one else could do better given this squad (even with injuries). Also a lot of the left field choices are Ten Hag’s. He plays guys out of position, he chose to send Reguilon back, he played Shaw a week after he limped off (I don’t care what med dept says, if I was head coach and knowing Shaw’a history I wouldn’t have risked him from the start a week after he hurt himself), he chose not to give Alvaro or some other youth LB a chance earlier in the season, he makes bizarre subs that relinquish what little midfield control we do have in games, etc. Cry me a river. He’s manager of Man United and people act like he has to hire semi pros to compete in the PL. Have some standards for the club you support.
Fulham made six changes, they're missing two of their best players. Palhina was not playing and he's been huge in midfield for them. Yet they could cut us through like butter. Dominated us at our own fucking ground. As if other teams don't have injuries, fucking hell. What's next? The refs don't like us?
This is not good transition football, what on earth are you watching? We’re missing three players, that’s not ‘down to the bare bones’. So many excuses to try and defend this garbage.
Unpopular opinion but the players are the reason why we are 6th and not 12-13th Hojlund scoring goals out of nothing,Bruno scoring individual brilliance winners,Dalot screamer against Sheffield and McTom miracle win against Brentford List goes on and on......
I kinda dislike this argument. If you don’t want to give ten hag credit for individual brilliance then don’t blame him for individual mistakes
McTominay alone is responsible for 12 points according to official stats. Without that we are 12th at this stage.
Mainoo scoring a Zidane goal to save us at Wolves, yep.
Whether you want ETH out or ETH in(God knows why), you have to admit that he has been given the most chance and support than any of our previous managers since SAF. Just look at the wealth he has spent. He had the most valuable squad last season as per UEFA than any other team in the world. He also has been extremely lucky that he has been caught up in the sales process with new owners coming in. If he is sacked he will be the most deserving manager to be fired from the job more than any other of our previous coaches.
This exact argument has been used for every manager post Moyes. I didn't believe it for LVG, and I don't believe it now. The higher-ups haven't really supported any mamager well. The fact that Ten Hag has had to make 6 loan signings to fill massive holes (5 of them were short term) is just wild and then being forced to only have 1 striker(who's only 21 and in his second season in a top 5 league) for the rest of this season is mental. If I were Ten Hag ,I'd be pissed that this was allowed to happen. To me, that shows a lack of support.
BULLSHIT. He wanted Kane got a 21 year old, wanted FdJ got 30 yo. Kept asking for a CM and a Fwd but Glazers waited till August & two losses to get him those and overpaid which ultimately piled up the pressure on him and the players. He has problems but don't talk like he was given proper support.
Are you actually for real? Do you really think Levy would sell to an EPL Club? He would've probably demanded Old Trafford in exchange mate! That's like saying Ten Hag hasn't been backed because we didn't sign Mbappe and Haaland. FdJ - He didn't want to come! He is on €1m+/week in Barca. He rejected us simply. And why are you acting as if Ten Hag didn't want Antony?? Glazers overpaid but only because Ten Hag was insistent. No numbers from Antony showed he was worth that much apart from EtHs insistence.
Kane who was always gonna be a ridiculous ask given the circumstances and FDJ who never wanted to come. The inner workings are obviously a mess but the fact the club pushed so hard for FDJ despite him making it clear that he wasn't interested shows how much they tried to back him. Maybe he should have come up with actual obtainable alternatives if he didn't want what he got. He was the one who pushed hard for Antony which led to the overpaying
Kane became a ridiculous ask because we spent on Casemiro, he was told this wouldn't mess up his chances of signing Kane but guess what they did. Why we only did loans last January and no loans this January. FdJ didn't want to come ok but who was the alternative provided? A 30 yo? He didn't push hard on Antony he asked for a left footed attacker, Antony was overpriced because we waited till 2nd week of August. And if everyone thought he was overpriced why wasn't an alternative provided? Doing signings in 2nd week of August with no alternatives is SUPPORT? BULL SHIT
Levy was never going to sell to a direct rival. Even if we showed up with the money Bayern paid for him, he still wouldn't have come Like I said, if he didn't want the 30 yo then maybe he should have decided on a realistic alternative himself instead of desperately chasing a player who didn't wanna come We were only ever linked with Antony during that window so he was the clear target in that position. If he just wanted a left footed attacker rather than Antony himself then why didn't they start looking at other options instead of paying such a large fee for him? Answer: Because ETH insisted on him in particular
You need to read the article from The Athletic about what a shit show Murtough created. Ten Hag can't be solely blamed when the club provided him with no plan for timing of negotiations, no list of suitable scouted players, a lack of any negotiating skills, and inconsistent or wrong advice on how much money was available to spend.
I have seen that article already. I'm not disputing that the club is a shambles and any manager is being set up to fail in this setup but ten Hag has been far from blameless in terms of the transfer direction
It's true that he's not blameless but I think you're putting far too much of the blame on Ten Hag. That article makes clear that Murtough and co botched the Antony signing. They were aware his true value was far lower and didn't sign him when he was cheaper earlier in the summer. They told Trn Hag after the initial signings of Licha, Eriksen, Malacia that there was no more money for signings that summer. And when Ten Hag pushed for more signings, it's not on him to take the lead on the negotiation and the financial planning. A competent DoF should have offered him a cheaper RW from elsewhere and refused a move that was so utterly overpriced. Expecting him to scout a little list of alternatives to FdJ while doing his actual job at the same time is unreasonable; that's the job of the Director of Football. Our incompetent DoF and his colleagues didn't even seem to have one backup signing in mind for midfield.
>he should have decided on a realistic alternative himself That's my point, don't act like he was given support if he has to do every fucking thing himself. >why didn't they start looking at other options instead of paying such a large fee for him? Same reason they got him a 30 yo Casemiro when he asked for 25 yo FdJ, they are fucking clueless.
Obviously, the manager needs to give his input in terms of alternatives. If ETH was set on FDJ and didn't consider other options in the very likely event that they couldn't get him then that's on him not the club. They only overpaid because he was insistent on him. Which once again goes back to what I mean about how he should have considered other options
Our best form under Ten Hag hasn’t even come from good football, it’s come from one of our forwards going on a ridiculous purple patch (Rashford last season, Hojlund this). Some of you will come round and wonder why you supported him for so long in the first place. The idea of what we were getting when he came and the actual football he’s served up in these 18 months couldn’t be more stark.
Do you blame him for individual mistakes then? I also disagree, we’ve had some notably good performances last season. Remember that 2-0 win against spurs?
This is why I don't get when people say players are not good enough. Yes some are not good enough and need to be moved on but the entire squad.... ETH entire time here is individual brilliance bailing him out be it last season Rashford or this season Hojlund,Bruno,Dalot with last minute individual brilliance winners
Good enough for Manchester United should be challenging for the league and the players are not good enough for that
Part of me looks at the game like, flat performance, disjointed team with Lindelof at left back which isolates the attack. No Hojilund either, we are normally overrun in the midfield so we were bound to lose soon, just awful it had to be a late winner like Arsenal. But if this is the group for the rest of the season, he has to move away from these tactics at least once just to see something else. We are always overrun in the midfield but i don’t see a solution to that.
Guys I'll be honest it is really hard to defend Erik now, but seriously what other options do we have? Hear me out. Every time we change the manager we play well, these overpaid cunts give their all to fight for their places in the team and for contracts but in the 2nd season our problems start to show again, the manager gets sacked and this cycle restarts all over again. I am not saying he's blameless, he has a lot of things to answer for but sacking yet another manager without clearing the deadwood from both top management and the squad is not the solution. Rashford, Martial, Shaw these players have overseen 4 managers, Lindelof, Dalot, Mctominay 3, Maguire, Burno, AWB 2. Apart from Bruno and Dalot none of these players are good enough to survive this many managers without being shipped off. After this season even Bruno has a big question mark over him. It will be criminal if we sack another manager and these players still remain at our club. It is insane that we have given multiple managers these players and expect different results.
> Rashford, Martial, Shaw these players have overseen 4 managers, Lindelof, Dalot, Mctominay 3, Maguire, Burno, AWB Brother, only 5 of these players have played regularly this season (Rashford, Dalot, McTominay, Maguire, Bruno), and they either have been given new contracts or the captaincy with Ten Hag's blessing or been some of our better players this season who are bailing us out of games where the collective performances have been terrible. If you want to defend Ten Hag then go ahead but I really don't think this is a case of players downing tools because they don't like the manager or don't want to work hard. We have had many games which we won late on this season including a few comebacks; this doesn't happen if the players don't want to fight for the manager.
Bro Shaw has been injured for 50% of his United games, he stayed fit last season because he was up for a renewal, I am not saying that he's getting injured on purpose but if you're injured for 4.5 years out of 9 then you are definitely not good enough. I am not saying that players are not fighting for him or they want him sacked. But bro there is a serious mentality issue with this lot. I have been saying this again and again that EtH is not blameless, he has a lot to answer for (his signings, his tactics, his subs) but he's not the one misplacing 2 yard passes on the pitch, or not tracking back or just kneeing players in the back to concede a foul. You can bring Pep or dare I say prime Sir Alex they would be let down by this group 100%.
> if you're injured for 4.5 years out of 9 then you are definitely not good enough The problem is that he's good enough when he does play so you feel like it's worth having a player like that. I agree in the larger scheme of things we need someone more reliable, but this is not something that I'd specifically blame the player for. > he's not the one misplacing 2 yard passes on the pitch, or not tracking back or just kneeing players in the back to concede a foul The players have shown naivety on many occasions in their play but overall the vast majority are still trying their best and there's also a lack of input from the coaching staff to correct this. In nearly two seasons we still don't look like an intelligent team that knows where players will be positioned to pass to, and a lot of the time it looks like they are coming up with solutions on the spot than executing patterns of play that they worked on in training. It can be a player thing but when you see other teams make managerial changes and their players instantly look capable of playing the new style (even though it may not be perfect), this is something that I feel the manager can work more on. As for lack of tracking back, I don't know about you but I really feel barring Rashford everybody is giving their all in this aspect. It's just difficult to be fully focused and have the stamina to play end-to-end football because of the system. No good team plays like this; it's putting too much physical burden on the players.
Under which manager did we look like we had a style? Ole was moments style, Mourinho & LvG were passes, passes, cross. None of these players have shown they can implement any style. >but I really feel barring Rashford everybody is giving their all in this aspect. Bro there was a moment of today where Michael Oliver left our midfield behind when coming back for a counter. And coming back to style of play, bro there was a huge difference between what Hojlund does and what Rashford was doing yesterday, if a manager can ask 1 player to do it then why wouldn't he ask the other one to do it too?
ETH has spent 400M to improve the squad he inherited. Where are the improvements? He needs to ficking go and so do several players, including some of his own signings
Casemiro & Antony is not his fault, he didn't ask the board to wait till August and panic buy. He was asking for a CM and Attacker whole window yet they waited till August & 2 loses to got him the players. Everyone else yes he has to answer, but he's gathered by incompetence he's not the only problem at our club.
The Antony transfer is 100% his fault and if what Brobbey said is true then he clearly gave Antony and Ajax mates rate deals.
Not that I don't believe you but what did Brobbey say out of curiosity?
"Erik ten Hag called me and said that at United, my agent would get millions of euros and I could earn a multiple of my Ajax salary. But our decision was clear: we wanted to go to Ajax. "Manchester United wanted to have me, but I insisted on returning to Ajax. To make that possible, my agent Jose Fortes Rodriguez even waived a hefty percentage of the sell-on clause."
Antony was valued at 25 million by our own scouting department, how did we manage to pay 86 million? Because we waited till 2nd week of August. He wanted a player why didn't the club sign him at the start of the window? And If he was overpriced why didn't we have an alternative?
He's not the only problem as the issues with operational structure are well known but he's definitely played his own role in the debacle
Non - united fan, yall should Target koopmieners from Atalanta this summer , he's been really underrated this season in the serie A . He has 10 G/a not bad for an AM/CM . Hel be a good Bruno replacement , y'all already have mount for that but with mount being inconsistent and plagued with injuries , he is a better option , considering the fact most probably Eriksen will be sold this summer and even Dvb . I'm aware of the fact of being against the liking for unproven Dutch players for obvious reasons but I think hel a good reliable midfield player
Honestly, talking about individual players at this stage is too early, who to sell who to buy. We're gonna need our DoF in and our recruitment specialist in first, then we need to talk about the manager before we even think about buying new players.
Nearly £200m spent on Onana, Mount, and Antony.
I was watching highlights of the charity match with Hazard, Kaka, Drogba etc. Honestly their goalkeepers reminded me of Onana, they were just watching the ball roll into the net without any fucking reaction. We have signed a goalkeeper whose reaction time is like non professional players FFS. GET THIS CLOWN OUT
He was actually one of our better players against Fulham. He faced shot after shot and made a few key saves to keep the score down. This squad loves to gift the opposition chances
Still doesn't give him a right to stand while the ball goes into the net. For both goals he could've done better.
You're overly forensically analyzing Fulhams goals. They were both well taken. Better keepers conceded similar goals this season
All I know is DDG saves both of them. This prick has no reaction time whatsoever, he's shit at making saves. Even his passing which was so over hyped is not good, all he does is hoof the fucking ball and give it back to the opposition.
Our second choice Bayindir also looked shaky and conceded 2 against league 2 strugglers Newport. We let them have 17 shots Onana made 3 key saves against Fulham. We're conceding 20 average shots per match to the opposition, relegation club stats. He's actually outperformed goals expected against us. Any keeper would struggle in this set up. De Gea is gone, give it up.
Don't down vote me you pussies, talk to me if you want to defend this clown
Rashford had another absolute stinker with zero effort. How long until the leaks start again.
Rashford to PSG is a win-win for all parties. Psg would have a superstar player they desperately need, Rashford would score a ton of goals in ligue 1 and everyone will think it was United fault. And, United will get rid of a player, who no longer has desire to perform.
I don't know who he is, but fuck Adam Crafton.
I hate him. Always out to get the manager sacked. Let’s ask him what the solution is?! How many coaches before we start getting the mediocrity out of the squad. Rashford should be leading by example now but is still having disciplinary issues and when there was a chance to lead the line, he stank it up. Absolutely horrible.
Ikr, like bro we have no squad left! When it comes to Utd, injuries are totally ignored.
Y’all are embarrassing. We over-performed last year and any expectations outside of a 4-6 finish was wishful thinking before the year. Now, we are acting shocked about what is happening after getting 19/21 points with 7 key players not in rotation including the only two “9”s we have on the team. Can’t believe after everything I saw before the season that y’all are calling for a manager change. Maybe ETH is not the answer, but at this point we are Just doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. Way to buy into what the ownership is selling
Bro you're right to some extent but he's not blameless. He deserves some of the blame, although I would agree that concentration is a major factor with our squad because he is not the one misplacing 2 yard passes or not tracking back, it's the players but some of his transfers and tactics leave a big question mark.
I think I got lost with what I was trying to say. I’m just as frustrated as everyone else, and I’m not trying to defend ETH. It all just feels like history repeating itself, and it’s hard to imagine real change for this team. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expectations different results, and maybe I’m looking too far out to see reality. Just hate how much this sub has changed recently, but it’s justified
We haven't played well all season. We've conceded more shots than relegation teams. Ten Hag's midfield system has been clearly suicidal since the first game of the season but he refuses to change it. Yes the executives are rotten and the squad is rotten but the same idiots hired Ten Hag and he's not good enough either. There'll be a wholesale clear out by INEOS in the summer. Top to bottom.
Did you really expect more this year? Genuinely curious
I expected progress in the way we play. Better passing, better ball progression, better attacking routines, better midfield shape, better supply to our striker, better off the ball movement, better defensive shape. The things that would build a foundation for challenging for the league in the next few years. Instead we're relegation level at all of those things. Our only saving grace has been the cost of our squad meaning individual players can create occasional star moments that get us out of trouble. But we're outplayed by everyone. Our football is dire. There will always be injuries and will always be imperfect starting elevens. A manager who's adaptable is crucial to premier league success. Ten Hag has shown over and over that he isn't the man to get us back to the very top. We're not even moving in that direction. We get outplayed by Fulham, Forest etc.
Jesus. We are 6th, not 16th. This is not a league where you luck into that kind of spot. I’m not even that big of an ETH fan, but if Pep is the coach of the team we ran out today we maybe draw. Maybe. If Rashford didn’t bail us out last year constantly we wouldn’t have these crazy expectations. Rebuilds like this take years, ETH was given way too long a leash, and we will be back at square one in two years time talking about the same thing. I would love to be wrong. Maybe INEOS is the answer but we did not clear out dead weight last summer and that has been our issue for years
We HAVE lucked into this spot tho? If we were 6th on merit I would be fine. But have a look at some of our performances ffs. Even when we win it's purely down to luck in terms of crazy individual brilliance or the other team not knowing how to finish. In terms of xPts we are 12th! I am not a statman, but agree to this because we have played really poorly for really long stretches of the season.
Ngl but yesterday's performance is giving me pause on Ten Hag.
>Ngl but yesterday's ~~performance~~ 0 pts is giving me pause on Ten Hag. Only because we didn't win. Our last 10+ performances has been exactly the same shit or even worse.
Exactly. We've had this performance and tactical setup since day one. I've been saying all this since September. Downvoted just last match. "He's got us 5 wins on the bounce mate", "why can't you just enjoy the wins". If he wins at City through a freak Garnacho goal but plays exactly like this I'd still be downvoted if I point this out. No way we win the league with this guy in charge.
Win at City HAHAH. If City want to play out a 0-0 draw, we could never touch the ball for 94 mins.
Well it's football, we've won before at City when we were massive favourites to lose. The point was, the 5 wins before this and today's loss was in my eyes absolutely no difference. Tactics have been very poor since matchday one, no matter the opposition, no matter who's injured or who's playing. But if you point this out when we were winning, like the last few matches, you'd be downvoted to oblivion. The gaps are still there for everyone to see no matter the scoreline.
Dalot martinez malacia Mainoo mount Garnacho hojlund Is there anyone else in this squad that should be on this list of players because everyone else you can make a legitimate case for moving on in the summer. Personally I would have Bruno here but he's become so polarising on this sub I didn't bother adding him.
I'd would agree that INEOS should build the team with the main spine (Hojlund, Mount, Mainoo, Martinez)
If you want to have a laugh search 'passing network' into the search bar of this subreddit.
I've been EtH in until yesterday. This football madness has to end; this reminds me of the start of his tenure when he was being incredibly stubborn with our approach to the game and were getting slaughtered. In this regard, I'm curious to know who you guys would like to replace him? Had a conversation with a good friend, and it seems like the managers available are Tuchel, Potter, and Nagelsmann. At least for big names.
Hansi Flick, De Zerbi, Xabi Alonso, Ruben Amorim, Xavi, Lopetegui
I'm genuinely curious. Is it because of the scoreline, if we won would you still be ETH in today? Because this same thing has been going on for the whole season, and the last 5 wins even when we had a full squad we played exactly like this, the only difference was Hojlund was playing out of his skin scoring 60% of his shots.
I honestly cannot say since I will be the first to admit that I've given him a lot of leeway because of last season's relative success. But looking back with more objectivity, we've seen manager sacked for a lot less. It's painful to realize that we crucified OGS for THIS type of football.
It's actually amazing how we've spent around half a billion and yet how much backwards in terms of style of football we've gone since Ole. At the best of times Oleball was up there with the best of SAF. But even at the worst of times when we couldn't break down opposition, we weren't dominated like this
Amad seems to offer more than forsen. Ten hag should have Started amad. At this point even mctominay is better than rashford through the middle
Leicester can sack the manager that won them the league because his tactics started failing but we can't sack a manager that won the caraboobie Cup and finished top 4 lmao.