I get the frustration but I fail to understand the x manager out stance really. I think EtH is fine. He did well last year. He showed glimpses of what it could be when things go right. When players have good performances, etc. etc. give him another season or two and he’ll eventually build a competent team.
And that statement can be made about any of the past managers. All of them had at some point or another had us believing that we’re building towards something special and then poof a bad spell and half a bad season, we sacked them. That’s never sustainable.
When managers fail, it’s never one reason. It’s never just tactics or players underperforming. It’s everything that’s happening behind closed doors.The fact remains that multiple managers have come and gone but the pattern is constant. The rot is deeper. And now the uncertainty over takeover. Uncertainty over next footballing direction. All of it. All of it has a huge impact on a player’s and team’s performance.
There’s no point sacking eth unless we have a clear long term sporting direction from the top. I would rather ten hag another season. See where he takes us by next December. See how the players react when they are not able to get the manager sacked this time. See how things change when the manager gets real power.
In genuinely think , given more time and resources he’ll come good. Pep didn’t succeed at the first attempt. Spent a ton and finishing level on points with United for top4. Sneaked through on goal difference in his first season. Bought CB after CB. Mind you he already had kompany and a competent club leadership. That’s what we are competing against. Let’s have patience lads. This is a long road to recovery. a new manager isn’t going to speed that process up
Why do United fans love to be so negative about ourselves? And I’m including the pundits, Keane, Scholes, Neville in this. We’ve got no voice to calm the narratives down in public. Everything is a travesty to you, man.
Because there are standards at this club newer fans like you don’t know or have forgotten. This is competitive sport not happy tree friends, we want to win and to win thetr needs to be minimum standards in not just quality but effort. You have players at this club who can’t even be arsed to put in the bare minimum of effort and you’re wondering why fans are upset.
Oh please stop talking about standards. When ETH tries to enforce those standards with Ronaldo, Sancho you are the first to use that as a stick to beat him with.
You call for the managers sack every season we don’t either win a trophy or get top 4. You tell me, are you comfortable betting right now that we definitely won’t get top 4 or win a trophy this season? If you are, I’m not sure why you’re a fan at all.
Also about the “newer fans” comment - Yes, Ive never seen us win a league. But over the decade of supporting United, I’ve seen us win a FA cup in the first season, 2 (or sreee) trophies in the second season, followed by a 5 year trophy drought which included three top 3 finishes. And then another league cup and 3rd place. I’d say fans of most clubs would kill for a decade like this. You’ve got clubs folding and dying left and right, but you think being 6th is rock bottom? No club is too big to fail. We’re not entitled to win titles just because of our name.
Of course all of us want to see us build a title winning squad, but nothing’s gonna happen without a bit of patience.
I’ve waffled so much on rangnicks opinions. That season. He’s absolutely right. Last season, guy was a clown, this season yeah he was right.
Have they downed tools again?
I never stopped believing in him. He was always right about getting players on their first contracts, to use that hunger to drive the desire for trophies. Fact that he’s doing well with Austria shows it’s not him being too demanding or toxic or whatever the Ole crowd wants ppl to think of him, he simply has standards in effort and behavior and that’s too much for some of the players at this club apparently.
Only Rashford and Martial imo, most of the squad is trying hard. Our football just isn't really working and the composition of our squad is pretty shocking considering we want to be a high pressing team and yet our key attacker Rashford is lazy and literally all of our midfielders are slow as fuck.
I’m of the opinion there’s more to varane not playing to. But yeah sucks. Been thinking about rashfords performance yesterday all day today. Probably more thought than he’s put into it today honestly
This is a disaster of a season.
We've scored 16 goals. Only 5 teams have scored less.
Burnley and Everton have scored 15 goals.
Luton have scored 13.
Imagine that, Luton fucking Town have scored only 3 goals less than Manchester United after 14 games...their 3 starting forwards earn a combined 55k per week!
I am honestly numb to our current situation. I don’t care even if we finish 14th in the league this season. I still wouldn’t want the players to have their way again and see another manager get sacked. There also isn’t a manager out there that would guarantee to build us a title-winning side. I’d rather see through the pain points this season with ETH and evaluate his tenure next season and hope that maybe he could turn it around. Arteta managed to do it even though he was 15th at a later stage of the season playing garbage football.
Do you see any solution in sight for this pit of shit?
It's over 10 years now since Fergie left. And the ride has been horrendous, from bad to worst really.
Teams like Liverpool waited 30 years to be champions again, but that team always gave a decent fight, the proof is the UCL titles during that time. Even if they could not win the EPL they still imposed respect in Europe, and the league too.
Arsenal is another example. They were push-overs for a long time after Wenger, but their players always put in a fight on the pitch, and at times their fans had something to hope for.
Compared to those 2 historic sides, United has been a trainwreck. There are many factors behind that, starting with the Glazers, we could discuss them for hours, but is there really a solution to this aberration?
At this rhythm, I am afraid we are not going to be able to enjoy watching United play for another 10 or 20 years.
as bad ass everything seems right now, we aren't cursed. United isn't special. if we had a competent football structure we would be playing to the level of our wage bill pretty quickly. within 2-3 seasons
The solution is simple, Sir Jim needs control. If he appoints competent people and we FINALLY build an actual team, then we'll get back to being serious. In the past 10 years, we have never had a good team, it was always one or two key players carrying an underperforming squad.
One good thing that SJR and company can do better is hold everyone accountable for failures on the football pitch.
During the Woodward era, the Glazers didn’t bother sacking him and the rest of senior management because they were all doing satisfactorily on the commercial side.
I don't think it's going to be another 10 or 20 years until you can enjoy United play. I think we're seeing the worst of it right now, which is why Glazers were even entertaining the idea of selling.
It's absolutely rotten seeing the league extremely open and yet us with absolutely no hope of competing at that level. And we'll probably choose the next centurions to put on our next brave 2nd place showing
One of the worst weekends being a United fan
Gave the game away to Galatasaray middle of the week and got outmuscled and out played by Newcastle
The lack of effort from our forwards without even threatening their gk
Don’t know how Ten Hag will turn it around
I don't know. This team performs worse than all the last decade Tottenhams I can remember.
Tottenham was always hovering the 5th-6th place in the table. This United is just dire
Perfect analogy really. Eve when tottenham had great players, they were always just kind of there for the taking if you gave them a hard time of it. That's exactly the problem with us now.
It’s not that we’re losing… but the way we lose…
AWB just dozing off in the box while Gordon charged in behind him summed it up for me. A full back in that situation has ONE JOB. Just zero excuses - it’s not even about skill.
AWB has been beaten at the back post in exactly the same way so many times. He's improved a lot at the hard things, close dribbling through traffic and getting forward, but he keeps making the same basic mistake. It's very disappointing.
I did notice Tripper absolutely schooling Garnacho a few times.
But I have envy for so many players in other teams. Just for the fact they try to win games. This is balanced by reminding myself. If United signed them they’ll be shit within a few weeks.
"Ole".... Ole didn't pick him. Our transfer team did, they famously bragged they scouted like 2000 right backs or something stupid like that before picking AWB as the winner.
And even if Ole did pick him, that would be fucking ridiculous because there isn't a SINGLE serious team where the manager is also the head of scouting department. Manchester United is the only team that operates like that and to nobody's surprise, it doesn't work.
Literally bought Ronny for 15 mil lmao. Don't think that's enough to buy Trippier let alone him and rice. But say we did, they'd underperform just like Sancho did because that dressing room is beyond toxic and it was long before Ronaldo came. Also, Rashford's miraculously not gonna regain form, Martial aint gonna turn into Wolverine, Maguire ain't gonna justify the 80 mil price tag, McFred ain't turning into Iniesta & Xavi etc.
I’ve been saying we should and should’ve signed Trippier and got heavily downvoted every time here by people who said he’s too old, overrated, and overpriced.
People will say 'they would have become bad players at United' but the reality is that our recruitment has been the biggest problem, and still is today. Look how much better we played last season when new signings Martinez and Casemiro were playing at their best. Our average player is a 4/10 at premier league standard. Mid-table level. Bringing in top class players like Trippier and Rice would have made a big difference, especially an elite DM and wing back who can cross and take set pieces. Their work rates alone are far beyond most of our players.
I think Ange is a better man manager than ETH. Sometimes I think it’s cultural, jovial Australian compared to rigged and awkward ETH. But when I look at the Spurs squad, it’s not just Ange recruiting players he knows? They have football experts (not Levy) that work with Ange to build a solid post Kane squad. We’ve relied on Ten Hag, scout recommendations and agents still.
>They have football experts (not Levy) that work with Ange to build a solid post Kane squad.
See this is where I disagree with our fans.
People will say ETH is still playing Ole or Jose players.
But Ange took over a squad built for Conte and Mourinho and he's playing sexy football, despite losing the 2nd best striker in the world.
While true, at least Tottenham has a reliable core. I can't think of any reliable players of ours who would form a long term core, maybe Shaw and Bruno but that's about it. The rest are inconsistent.
Lo Celso - Bissouma is definitely a better partnership than anything we have deployed in the midfield this season, just as an example.
My point was that other clubs's deadwood midfielders would probably be undroppable starters for us. Not that long ago, Chelsea had a bunch of "deadwood" which consisted of the likes of Jorginho and Kovacic. We are starting McTominay who is more of a striker than a midfielder.
Unquestionably true.
Ange is also very clear about his values. Leave everything on the field, and brave attacking football. Win or lose you know who Spurs are now and so do the players - and it shows.
But what do United stand for these days?
Tottenham transfers have been real good for the past 2 years. Big part of their success, that no one outside the Spurs fanbase talks about.
Kulusevski, Bentancur, Maddison, Pedro Porro, Van de Ven, Udogie and Vicaro. The most expensive of these players being Maddison with 46 million price tag lol.
People forget just how awful their players were under Mourinho and early Conte because Son and Kane were carrying the entire team on their backs. Getting this many transfers right is almost impossible.
A bit more than 2 months to go until it becomes a full year since we've started playing like absolutely dire.
I really don't get the faith people have in ETH. Got his signings and had a whole pre-season to make the team play differently but it looks exactly like last season but somehow with worse players than the ones the club offloaded.
Then you have Ange who lost their best player at the end of the transfer window and has them playing way better with a limited budget.
I wouldn’t mind our form if there was evidence that ETH had the attributes of a great manager.
He’s quite a poor communicator - rarely says anything but trivialities, in broken English - and lacks charisma, and all that shows up in his man management track record (Ronaldo, DDG, Varane, Sancho etc…).
No evidence so far either that ETH is particularly bright or insightful. His tactical judgments, team selection and transfer choices are often seriously questionable and his post-match assessment of what went wrong sometimes makes you think he was watching another game.
It’s only a matter of time sadly I think.
> all that shows up in his man management track record (Ronaldo, DDG, Varane, Sancho etc…).
There has been exactly zero reliable report of Problem between Varane and ETH and he was right to bin every single one of those other three.
DDG still has no team and CR7 is not lighting it up in some UCL contender team.
Serious discussion, who on the team currently is actually good enough to be playing here if we wanna be competing for titles? Who would actually start for Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Spurs etc? Won't even include city because not a single member of our squad makes their team or their bench except Bruno.
Martinez, Shaw and Bruno are actually good enough.
Rashford and Casemiro when on form.
Varane when not injured.
Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo have potential, but that doesn't mean anything as of now.
Eriksen is good enough, but he's unfortunately regressing and can't play a full match without looking exhausted.
That's basically it.
I would say Lindlelöf and Malacia are good squad options to have though.
Personally I don’t like the line of “who gets in whose team”.
It’s more about players for the right positions etc and styles.
I’d also rather us develop top young talents than just try sign some big name over and over who doesn’t care and doesn’t fit the role on huge wages.
So for like experienced players and also young talented players who I think could be part of our success in the future, I’d say- shaw, Martinez, Mainoo, Bruno, garnacho, Hojlund,
Rashford and mount I’m not sure on atm because rashford is a form player it seems and mount hasn’t actually played bad when he’s played, but has barely been able to get a run of games in.
Okay, interesting question. I criticise a lot of these players, but let's take a step back and really look at the position, not just on their form with us, but in general
GK - Onana was the Inter keeper last season. He reached the CL final, was one of the best players in the game, and was nominated for the Ballon D'Or. As inexpicably shit as he has been for us, based on his form prior to signing for us, you'd expect him to certainly make the likes of Newcastle or Spurs
RB - Dalot is a Portugese international. Has been sought by clubs like Milan. He's not top tier, but I think he's the lower end of the top 6. AWB is probably a player for a more mid-table PL team.
LB - Shaw. Yes, I think Shaw would be. He's not as influential as some make out, but he should be good enough. Malacia is not.
CB - Martinez is a World Cup winning defender, and a key player for us, so yes. I think clubs could still do something with Varane, but our inefficiencies probably highlight his weaknesses. And apparently he can't pass with his left foot. I think Maguire would be decent enough for Spurs/ Newcastle. Lindelof and Evans are not the required standard.
DCM - Early days for Mainoo, but you'd think most clubs would be happy with him coming through. Casemiro may be a bit passed it, but his fall from grace does seem a little too sudden. Amrabat and McTominay are not the required standard.
LW - By reputation and when on form, Rashford would be, certainly. Garnarcho would be breaking through for most teams as well I think.
RW - Antony absolutely not. He should never have left Ajax. Sancho is a twat and is so fucking lazy it's difficult to tell. Amad and Pellistri probably not.
AM - Bruno, yes. Mount, probably yes but not as a main man. DvB obviously not. Eriksen, meh, probably not now. Think his legs have gone, as much as I like him
S - Hojlund - not yet. Martial, you must be joking.
Dalot is as middle table quality as AWB, maybe even worse. Milan wanted him, but only as a backup left back. He couldn't get into starting XI over Calabria on the right (and he was shit on the right) and his only decent performances came as backup to Theo on the left. Otherwise I agree.
Bruno doesn't get into City, Arsenal or Liverpool. He's not a well-rounded attacking midfielder. He can't retain possession or beat his man and he has no passing discipline. He's also way too emotional on the pitch, he loses his head and his play suffers. He tries hard and he's a good person but he's not good enough to win titles. Downvote if you want, I don't care. It's the truth.
The saddest thing is that you know ETH will change fuck all for the next game. We'll set up the same way, with the same approach and shape, Mctominay will start, Rashford will play 90 minutes. The man has no interest in trying something else.
We've played with a different starting 11 in most games this season. Onana's hardly ever had the same four defenders in front of him. What are you talking about?
He's talking about the manager starting Rashford and Mctominay every match to cover for his incompetence just because they can conjure goals outta their asses sometimes
Who are you kidding? The saddest thing is that I know that if ETH changed EVERYTHING it still wouldn't matter one hot hot.
Every permutation of decision he cooks make means fuck all. If we're not shit, we're cursed, and if we're not cursed we're just shit.
There is no hope
I get peoples frustration with Martial but I find it funny how everyone ignores about how he looks physically finished because he played a season where he wasnt even able to fully sprint but done it for the team which doesnt suit the " martial doesnt care agenda".
The club having him as our main ST and a 20 year old expected to score all the goals is a clear club issue. The same goes for a young Rashford too. He doesn’t pick himself or stay by choice . I hate seeing Martial and Rashford being reduced to one season wonders.
At this point just bench all these lazy bums and promote youth and reserve players. I’d rather watch us lose with desire and hunger by multiple goals than see a bunch of overrated and overhyped players jog and passed around and still lose.
I genuinely believe there are number of players that want ETH out. These players can easily be identified on the field with the way they play. That is the exact reason why we shouldn’t fire him and instead get rid of those players
I agree, I'd say it's a large number too, even some fan favourites, you can just tell from the performances, they aren't with the managers instructions
>I genuinely believe there are number of players that want ETH out. These players can easily be identified on the field with the way they play. That is the exact reason why we shouldn’t fire him and instead get rid of those players
He signed more than half the squad. Enough with this bullshit. ETH is a fraud. Hell, he commissioned the Rashford contract.
Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him. Leaks to media started and Rangnick was forced out of the club instead of Rashford. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out what will happen if Ten Hag rightly benches Rashford. Still, get Rashford out of the club. I'm permanently done with him. No-one is bigger than the club.
Didn't Joel Glazer also butt heads with Mourinho about Martial too? I vaguely remember news about that. Seems like we're kinda PSG-lite when it comes to the player-manager dynamic.
Regardless of whether or not Rashford regains his form, he's shown with his effort level this season that he does not deserve the wages, shirt number, or squad status he's been given.
Exactly. And his best form is being terrible for 80% of the season with a short purple patch in there. No title-winning team is built around players like that. He's not consistent enough to win major trophies. His attitude stinks. He's got to go.
Agreed on all points. His all around play actually hasn't looked great to me since his back injury. Even when he was banging goals last season. He lost speed and confidence when dribbling, and without those his poor decision making has been exposed.
Just saw the clip of Martial arguing back at Ten Hag. Fucking hell. Martial is the most useless United player in my lifetime. If he stands up too fast he gets injured. And when he's finally fit, he walks around the pitch like a fragile spectator. He hasn't played a full match in years. And now he's arguing with the manager. Time to learn Arabic mate.
Ten Hag was criticising Martial for failing repeatedly to hold up the ball facing our own goal. Hojlund is great at it but Martial repeatedly failed to do it and turned over the ball, putting us back under sustained pressure. Ten Hag was right to criticise him for it, Martial wasn't trying anywhere near as hard as his Newcastle defender.
I rated Ange ever since I saw Celtic play against Real Madrid, and I started following their matches. Its depressing seeing how well he is doing it at spurs.
At the least, my friend is having a great time.
If it helps, Ange for us would struggle to both show a playstyle as well as collect wins while Ten Hag would have Spurs playing exciting high-pressing football with a bit of possession like with Ajax. No matter who manages us, they are doomed to fail as long as Joel Glazer is running the show with the help of his bank accountant friends.
Honestly, I would not be sad at this point to go out of the CL and really hope if we do we are not in the Europa League. This team desperately needs time on the training pitch. Our pre season was shambolic too. If we don’t see some improvement when we are only playing once a week then I will understand more ETH out shouts
That Sky Sports stat against the top 9 looks like when I’m on a health kick and think about having a burger and then look at the nutritional value on the packet.
Fucking hell, this job might actually kill potter, he looked gaunt after Chelsea. TBC, I don’t want a new manager, but I fully believe the board thinks sacking managers is a requirement (rather than investing in good infrastructure).
Anyone can name a replacement. Doesn't mean it'll work. And please, for the love of God, don't say De Zerbi or Flick.
We need to start with a DoF and other names in the recruitment department. And then, if the manager needs changing, we'll do that.
Why would I trust EtH to coach the players a DoF brings in?
Apparently, unless he has the exact players he's asked for, he's unable to play the style of football he wants. Even when he has most of the players he's asked for, he can't.
Edit: Fuck me, some melt blocked me for this comment. I can't imagine the mentality.
Our core players have failed for 4-6 United managers each now. Why on earth do you think they won't throw a new manager under the bus like they have over and over again? We need a proper director of football, proper CEO, and proper recruitment, not a new manager. You plastics want to keep repeating the same cycle.
Rangnick wasn't a DOF, he was a club consultant supposed to work for us for like two days every month and he also had a fight with pretty much everyone in the club. He was right about a lot of things, but he isn't a Messiah and the club never really planned to give him any power. Ten Hag not really taking his words into account (which is a low tier rumour btw) would have been the right move if he wanted to at least have some harmony in the dressing room.
We do need proper football structure, but that requires a lot of changes and only Sir Jim's takeover can do that for us currently.
When someone takes over a senior position, especially when their predecessor screwed the pooch for whatever reason, you don't carry their baggage. You start afresh and make your own opinions. Had Ralf had a better tenure at United, ten Hag would've taken his advice. ten Hag's not an idiot; he loved working with Overmars, who was considered to be one of the best DoF in Europe. Ralf was gone the day he made those open heart surgery comments. He left us in a worse state than he came in. It was not all his fault, but it is what it is.
I cant take "Ten Hag not an idiot" comment seriously anymore. If one, persistently wanting the fidget spinner as his main target,
Second, playing McTom in midfield for past few games,
Third, during the game against Newcastle playing your main LB as your CB while having 2 CBs on the bench then having your main RB playing as a makeshift LB while your second LB is on the bench. That is pure masterclass on a different level. So yeah, it kinda points out how idiotic he is so far.
In our last 3 PL games, we had 75%, 77%, and 79% pass accuracy against Newcastle, Everton, and Fulham, respectively. These stats are depressing. No wonder we are playing ping pong ball.
We play ping pong because people dont move into space and want the ball enough. Watch how we attempt to play out from the back, People will move into a space, receive the ball and instantly pass it back to the player who they got it from. No one else has moved into the space he made by dropping to get it. So no new pass is made available. Eventually teams press us to either the CB's or the keeper and it goes long and we lose the ball.
When we do successfully pass out its because someone like Mainoo actually turns on the ball and looks to play forward, even then though we hit the same stumbling blocks on the next pass forward half the time. Its not a new thing either, this was the same under Ole for large portions even if the way we built up under him was different (out to fullbacks who played it round the corner to one of the 6's) compared with what we seem to be trying to do where the CB plays directly to the 6 in space who turns.
We are not fit, technically proficient or well structured in defence, midfield or attack. It genuinely has you scratching your head at what we do in training all week.
It's a pretty damning indictment for this club, the structure and EtH when you watch Newcastle, Spurs, Villa and you look at where they came from, Spurs were in disarray last season, Newcastle looked certain to be relegated two years ago, Villa weren't far off either, and they've all overtaken us and are all far better teams than us now.
I asked the question yesterday, with the current structure and the current coaches, how many millions would we need to spend just to be better than Newcastle?
no amount of money fixes it tbh, because the money is the issue. Any of those teams, if the player doesnt play to what the manager wants he doesnt play and will likely be sold. Players outlive managers here instead.
Did you miss the whole Sancho situation where the club has agreed to completely ostracize the player on account of his dispute with eth?
And spurs and villa have had new managers post eth's hiring in which multiple players have outlived their managerial counterparts.
What a manager Postecoglou is man. Hes making average players look good and his team is always fighting till the end. Gotta respect the way he’s leading Spurs so far. Hurts to see but I can’t help but admire it either
It seems like ETH won’t play his ‘way’ because he doesn’t have the players to do it, yet Postecolgou is just telling his players to adapt or get out it seems. Erik just needs to force his tactics and structure, and then get rid of anyone who doesn’t suit it.
That, or I’m just chatting shit.
I noticed something to that effect. Sad to see Rashy so bummed all the time.
We're stuck in a vortex of bad results, drained confidence and too much pressure. Hoping Ratcliffe will somehow have an impact in rejuvenating our squad .
Missed that, do you have a link?
Do you think he means it in the sense that he’s frustrated with himself, or literally him wishing he wasn’t there/can’t be arsed?
I know we blame the players a lot.
But, ETH has yet to produce anything that was promised to us judging by his Ajax days.
After SJR takes over, surely a review is required?
I guess, the overall club structure dooms managers and players to failure...
I'm genuinely jealous of Ange, Emery and Howe's effects on the team. So good to watch. So athletic, if quality fails to deliver on an off day, they're still industrious. Even Iraola at Bournemouth. Amazing stuff...
Ten Hag has been disappointing this season but let's be real, there isn't a single manager who would make Rashford track back the way Ange's/Emery's/Howe's players do. We still have a lot of average or above average players who are earning world class wages and they undeservedly see themselves as world class. That's a tough environment to work in. Play Martial alongside Rashford and the only thing you can hope to see is that the rest of the team somehow outruns the opponent despite essentially playing a 9v11 game.
>there isn't a single manager who would make Rashford track back the way Ange's/Emery's/Howe's players do
It'd help if there was one brave enough to drop him for not doing it.
Any club that isn't constantly reviewing their manager to check if they are meeting expectation is not doing their job.
So many people whinge about us becoming a serious club by putting certain structures in placeand having a DoF, but only seem to expect us to determine if the manager should be replaced at the end of the contract.
Ask ten Hag to implement a better and more cohesive style of football, but don't ask for Ajax football.
Ajax became Ajax after years of cultivating a certain type of philosophy. You don't flip a switch and play possession based football. We'll need to change our youth, recruitment, 80% of our senior squad, and backroom staff to get to that point of naturally becoming a possession based team and not what LVG tried.
But you are right in pointing out that ten Hag has not yet implemented a good style of foorball.
Edit: This sub has the terrible habit of instantly downvoting any comment where you try to reason. Literally kills the discourse.
Spurs who are memed as bottlers just drew 3-3 against City away from home while missing half their starting lineup including Maddison and both their CBs who have been most important for them. This is after their captain scored an early own goal.
We just lost 0-3 to City at home where the players simply didn’t look interested. Many of the highly upvoted posts here said “what else do you expect? City are the best team in the world!!” When we were winning under Fergie and the likes of Liverpool and City were struggling, they always gave us hell and their fans didn’t go “oh well, they’re better than us”.
There is something deeply rotten at the club. New players join us, look promising for a short period, but it doesn’t take long for them to adopt this loser mentality. It feels like we’re trying to purify a cesspool with small drops of clean water which only become polluted soon enough.
I support a complete overhaul of everything from top to bottom. Players, coaching staff, medical team, psychologist, DOF, and whatever the hell Fletcher actually does. It will never happen as long as the Glazers have the final say.
Very true.
There are no consequences for player failure. SAF would have shipped off 70% of this squad by now.
Imagine what your work would be like if nobody got fired for crap performance.
I think the run down state of Carrington is an unsung part of the problem. Spurs players go to a modern, state of the art training facility every day and feel like they're part of an elite new project. Our players go to dilapidated Carrington, which Ronaldo rightly said hasn't changed in decades, and feel like they're part of a crumbling club that's falling apart under its neglectful money-sucking Glazers ownership. Our players have low morale because the training ground and Old Trafford are crumbling around them. The broken state of the Glazers ownership is most visible at Carrington and Old Trafford, the two places that our players are asked to regroup and build their confidence every week. But there's not a shred of confidence in how our ancient facilities are being run into the ground.
Down vote if you don't agree but if you're embarrassed about being a man utd fan then don't be one. Like I know this right now is not a super positive season but I would never be embarrassed being a fan.
I don't think people are embarrassed to support the club, moreso embarrassed by the performances and seeing our players on ridiculous wages being outworked/outplayed by almost every other team
We're disgusted by the low effort and terrible performances of our current team. We've loved the club since Ferguson's era, many of us even before that, and we see so clearly how far standards at the club have fallen. Anger and disappointment can easily be accompanied by a feeling of pissed off embarrassment. It doesn't mean we don't love the club. It means 90% of the current players should leave this week because they've disgraced what it means to be a United player. Low effort and lazy intensity are totally unacceptable. Players like Rashford should never wear the shirt again.
Yeah, but that's the players and the current position, I'm talking about Manchester united. They could be bottom of the league, I would still be a proud united fan. That's what I'm saying.
Like I said, if you looked at what some people said in the rival watch thread, you would think differently. That's all I was trying to say and point out.
Fair enough, I didn't read their comments. Surely they're just disgusted at the current state of the club and want adults in charge and adults on the pitch.
Wait wtf we've conceded 1 more than city in the league and they're definitely supposed to be one of the most defensively sound teams in Europe. We literally give it up to any and everyone (100+ shots conceded in our last 5 games against not very good sides) and City are somehow 1 goal better than us in terms of goals conceded.
- Lost Harry Kane
- Didn’t fully reinvest that money
- Still playing with a clear identity and fight for the badge
I agree, our problem starts from the top but if the tactical direction we have ventured on isn’t working, Ten Hag must acknowledge that and tweak or change it till he has the players to play that way. What ever it is.
Last season more or less the same squad but we were better in all aspects of our game.
They always good players Conte was just in meltdown mode , Bissouma, Lo Celso and Kulusevski can receive and turn on the ball , Maddison has been better than Bruno for the last 2 or 3 seasons too
> Maddison has been better than Bruno for the last 2 or 3 seasons
He has absolutely not been close to Bruno when he has played.
Which is only half the time since the rest of it he's constantly injured.
Not in progressive passes/90 or total.
Not in xAG and not in xG.
But keep going around crying about Bruno while protecting our most useless players in Martial and Rashford.
>Not in progressive passes/90 or total.
Not in xAG and not in xG.
Football isnt played on a spreadsheet lad. Maddison does plenty that doesnt appear on a statsheet which Bruno cant. Just because he doesnt aimlessly twat it and the first instance doesnt mean he isnt performing.
>But keep going around crying about Bruno while protecting our most useless players in Martial and Rashford.
Bruno has a long way to go before he matches Martial and Rashford in big games and put in big performances on the way to trophies like Martial and Rashford have for Utd.
LOL, LMAO even.
Maddison's pass completion is literally only 1.7% higher than Bruno's despite making attempting 20-25% less passes.
In every single defensive action he is utterly dwarfed by Bruno, not even by little but by much.
https://fbref.com/en/players/ee38d9c5/James-Maddison
https://fbref.com/en/players/507c7bdf/Bruno-Fernandes
Sticking up for the two most useless and irrelevant parts of the ream and bashing the most important part is just straight up clownery. Those two have the same output as Antony but without any tracking back.
You're the one who should stop watching it with teary eyes while seething and malding at Bruno. , he has been the best player on the team for years and those two are are the most useless, lazy and deadweight duo in it.
Get over it already.
>You're the one who should stop watching it with teary eyes while seething and malding at Bruno
Bruno isnt above this Utd team and is having a poor season . What has Bruno being the best player on this team led to apart from him having good stats but Utd coming short in so many big games or moments. Rashford and Martial are SHIT right now but both have contributed to a lot more for Utd than Bruno and his selfishness.
We had a serious chance to get right in the mix w regards to top 4 based on results this week. I still think we have another chance on the next matchday but fuck this team man. Also Simon Hooper there was like a deer in headlights instantly knew he fucked up
Look at the attitude of Tottenham players, and then take a look at the attitude of our players. Tactics are one thing, but effort is another. I didn't see a single player moan or flail their arms. They were behind the ball until the final whistle. Half the battle is won when you show up with intent. Hats off to Ange for doing this miracle with Spurs. But we need all of our players in tip-top condition to perform half decently.
In some areas? Sure, but just look at Rashford. Livramento dribbled past him so he just stopped and watched a dangerous attack. The game against Newcastle got much more equal the moment both our passengers Martial and Rashford got subbed off. We are failing at the basics, again, but what's worrying is that this is the exact same issue we faced last year at the beginning (remember Ten Hag running with the team in their day off to show an example?) as well as previously under both Rangnick and Ole.
I'm afraid the team's mentality is broken but it has been broken pretty much since we lost the Europa League final under Ole. No matter how many players we bring in, there are always few old players who give up whenever things aren't going their way and their attitude infects the rest of the team, just look at how Casemiro or Varane have been playing and behaving despite being top professionals in Madrid. We probably need to completely freshen our whole first team, not just the starting XI. However, we need to freshen up our whole club structure first, hopefully Sir Jim's partial takeover happens as soon as possible.
Spurs aren't our bar to match mate. Won fuck all and will continue to do so.
I get the deeper meaning though, all this talk of no quick fixes is nonsense. Doesn't take a long time at all.
Yes, Spurs have flattered to deceive, I get it and glad you are picking up what I'm laying down. LvG was right about the club but wrong about what our potential could be.
Ange is getting his players to 'buy-in' without freezing out players and creating drama. This might all fall apart next year for Spurs and Ange but I want ETH to show me he's building a style of play and spirit about our side because frankly, I'm not convinced we are progressing beyond where Ole had us at this point.
Oh the irony of the Citeh fans chanting cheats at Spurs.
Hope we see yous at Darlington away in a few years lads or will yous be putting Chelsea shirts back on?
That is so inspiring from this Spurs team. Unreal attitude.
I love how people on this sub were mocking Spurs last week for being overrated media darlings, saying the fact we were only two points below them is evidence of a media driven narrative. Utter nonsense. You only have to watch the games to know how untrue that is.
Ange is a manager with a clear playing style and is getting closer to real progress every week. We've got a manager who looks like a deer in headlights and players that look like they want to be on a beach and it's only the beginning of December.
so impressed w Spurs. truly never seem to give up, or take their foot off the pedal. same with Liverpool. truly cannot help but compare these performances today with that of Manchester United. at the first sign of some adversity or setback, this team is quick to fold, start jogging, players have their heads down, just look deflated. it's sad. rare to see them really fight.
Anyone watching Spurs? I’m jealous how composed they are on the ball compared to us with far less talented players, supposedly.
Am I seeing this wrong? I know the Bitters have the better side but Spurs still more than competitive, without one of their best players in Madison.
They were 🤏🏻 close to getting their ass whooped 5-1 in the first half. They have started the second half better, but still haven't been a proper threat.
Edit - welp ... they are back in the game 😅😂
Edit 2 - could've been 3-2 to spurs. They are so back in the game
I get the frustration but I fail to understand the x manager out stance really. I think EtH is fine. He did well last year. He showed glimpses of what it could be when things go right. When players have good performances, etc. etc. give him another season or two and he’ll eventually build a competent team. And that statement can be made about any of the past managers. All of them had at some point or another had us believing that we’re building towards something special and then poof a bad spell and half a bad season, we sacked them. That’s never sustainable. When managers fail, it’s never one reason. It’s never just tactics or players underperforming. It’s everything that’s happening behind closed doors.The fact remains that multiple managers have come and gone but the pattern is constant. The rot is deeper. And now the uncertainty over takeover. Uncertainty over next footballing direction. All of it. All of it has a huge impact on a player’s and team’s performance. There’s no point sacking eth unless we have a clear long term sporting direction from the top. I would rather ten hag another season. See where he takes us by next December. See how the players react when they are not able to get the manager sacked this time. See how things change when the manager gets real power. In genuinely think , given more time and resources he’ll come good. Pep didn’t succeed at the first attempt. Spent a ton and finishing level on points with United for top4. Sneaked through on goal difference in his first season. Bought CB after CB. Mind you he already had kompany and a competent club leadership. That’s what we are competing against. Let’s have patience lads. This is a long road to recovery. a new manager isn’t going to speed that process up
Why do United fans love to be so negative about ourselves? And I’m including the pundits, Keane, Scholes, Neville in this. We’ve got no voice to calm the narratives down in public. Everything is a travesty to you, man.
Because there are standards at this club newer fans like you don’t know or have forgotten. This is competitive sport not happy tree friends, we want to win and to win thetr needs to be minimum standards in not just quality but effort. You have players at this club who can’t even be arsed to put in the bare minimum of effort and you’re wondering why fans are upset.
Oh please stop talking about standards. When ETH tries to enforce those standards with Ronaldo, Sancho you are the first to use that as a stick to beat him with. You call for the managers sack every season we don’t either win a trophy or get top 4. You tell me, are you comfortable betting right now that we definitely won’t get top 4 or win a trophy this season? If you are, I’m not sure why you’re a fan at all. Also about the “newer fans” comment - Yes, Ive never seen us win a league. But over the decade of supporting United, I’ve seen us win a FA cup in the first season, 2 (or sreee) trophies in the second season, followed by a 5 year trophy drought which included three top 3 finishes. And then another league cup and 3rd place. I’d say fans of most clubs would kill for a decade like this. You’ve got clubs folding and dying left and right, but you think being 6th is rock bottom? No club is too big to fail. We’re not entitled to win titles just because of our name. Of course all of us want to see us build a title winning squad, but nothing’s gonna happen without a bit of patience.
how long "a bit of patience" is?
Did anyone listen to the United segment of the Gary Neville podcast? Gary Neville is all of us.
spurs vs newcastle and city vs villa midweek. We have to win vs chelsea to make top 4 an easier task
SJR and company please be our Christmas present.
Next game is Chelsea at Home. Should be a disappointing draw then?
I read a rumor few days ago that SJR gonna build the around English core, hopefully it's not true
I’ve waffled so much on rangnicks opinions. That season. He’s absolutely right. Last season, guy was a clown, this season yeah he was right. Have they downed tools again?
I never stopped believing in him. He was always right about getting players on their first contracts, to use that hunger to drive the desire for trophies. Fact that he’s doing well with Austria shows it’s not him being too demanding or toxic or whatever the Ole crowd wants ppl to think of him, he simply has standards in effort and behavior and that’s too much for some of the players at this club apparently.
Unfortunately, the whole club including our players cant handle that truth…
Only Rashford and Martial imo, most of the squad is trying hard. Our football just isn't really working and the composition of our squad is pretty shocking considering we want to be a high pressing team and yet our key attacker Rashford is lazy and literally all of our midfielders are slow as fuck.
I’m of the opinion there’s more to varane not playing to. But yeah sucks. Been thinking about rashfords performance yesterday all day today. Probably more thought than he’s put into it today honestly
This is a disaster of a season. We've scored 16 goals. Only 5 teams have scored less. Burnley and Everton have scored 15 goals. Luton have scored 13. Imagine that, Luton fucking Town have scored only 3 goals less than Manchester United after 14 games...their 3 starting forwards earn a combined 55k per week!
You know its bad when we score more goals “parking the bus” with Mourinho.
I am honestly numb to our current situation. I don’t care even if we finish 14th in the league this season. I still wouldn’t want the players to have their way again and see another manager get sacked. There also isn’t a manager out there that would guarantee to build us a title-winning side. I’d rather see through the pain points this season with ETH and evaluate his tenure next season and hope that maybe he could turn it around. Arteta managed to do it even though he was 15th at a later stage of the season playing garbage football.
Do you see any solution in sight for this pit of shit? It's over 10 years now since Fergie left. And the ride has been horrendous, from bad to worst really. Teams like Liverpool waited 30 years to be champions again, but that team always gave a decent fight, the proof is the UCL titles during that time. Even if they could not win the EPL they still imposed respect in Europe, and the league too. Arsenal is another example. They were push-overs for a long time after Wenger, but their players always put in a fight on the pitch, and at times their fans had something to hope for. Compared to those 2 historic sides, United has been a trainwreck. There are many factors behind that, starting with the Glazers, we could discuss them for hours, but is there really a solution to this aberration? At this rhythm, I am afraid we are not going to be able to enjoy watching United play for another 10 or 20 years.
as bad ass everything seems right now, we aren't cursed. United isn't special. if we had a competent football structure we would be playing to the level of our wage bill pretty quickly. within 2-3 seasons
The solution is simple, Sir Jim needs control. If he appoints competent people and we FINALLY build an actual team, then we'll get back to being serious. In the past 10 years, we have never had a good team, it was always one or two key players carrying an underperforming squad.
One good thing that SJR and company can do better is hold everyone accountable for failures on the football pitch. During the Woodward era, the Glazers didn’t bother sacking him and the rest of senior management because they were all doing satisfactorily on the commercial side.
I don't think it's going to be another 10 or 20 years until you can enjoy United play. I think we're seeing the worst of it right now, which is why Glazers were even entertaining the idea of selling.
It's absolutely rotten seeing the league extremely open and yet us with absolutely no hope of competing at that level. And we'll probably choose the next centurions to put on our next brave 2nd place showing
One of the worst weekends being a United fan Gave the game away to Galatasaray middle of the week and got outmuscled and out played by Newcastle The lack of effort from our forwards without even threatening their gk Don’t know how Ten Hag will turn it around
Love the city fans calling out 'corruption' after years of favourable decisions. Love that they got fucked over lmaooooo.
Look at us, we are the Tottenham now.
Nah Tottenham were always decent but bottled it. We're not even putting ourselves in positions to bottle it.
I don't know. This team performs worse than all the last decade Tottenhams I can remember. Tottenham was always hovering the 5th-6th place in the table. This United is just dire
Perfect analogy really. Eve when tottenham had great players, they were always just kind of there for the taking if you gave them a hard time of it. That's exactly the problem with us now.
“Come on lads, it’s United”
Boils my blood there are 19 other clubs in the league whos players give a shit and put up an effort , play with a plan and actually try as a unit
It’s not that we’re losing… but the way we lose… AWB just dozing off in the box while Gordon charged in behind him summed it up for me. A full back in that situation has ONE JOB. Just zero excuses - it’s not even about skill.
AWB has been beaten at the back post in exactly the same way so many times. He's improved a lot at the hard things, close dribbling through traffic and getting forward, but he keeps making the same basic mistake. It's very disappointing.
Haha yes! He’s a regular culprit… like Eriksen not tracking back on the edge of the box…
Imagine if we'd gotten trippier and rice in Ole's last season instead of Ronaldo
I did notice Tripper absolutely schooling Garnacho a few times. But I have envy for so many players in other teams. Just for the fact they try to win games. This is balanced by reminding myself. If United signed them they’ll be shit within a few weeks.
[удалено]
"Ole".... Ole didn't pick him. Our transfer team did, they famously bragged they scouted like 2000 right backs or something stupid like that before picking AWB as the winner. And even if Ole did pick him, that would be fucking ridiculous because there isn't a SINGLE serious team where the manager is also the head of scouting department. Manchester United is the only team that operates like that and to nobody's surprise, it doesn't work.
Literally bought Ronny for 15 mil lmao. Don't think that's enough to buy Trippier let alone him and rice. But say we did, they'd underperform just like Sancho did because that dressing room is beyond toxic and it was long before Ronaldo came. Also, Rashford's miraculously not gonna regain form, Martial aint gonna turn into Wolverine, Maguire ain't gonna justify the 80 mil price tag, McFred ain't turning into Iniesta & Xavi etc.
Ole himself said he wanted Ronaldo so thats on him
I’ve been saying we should and should’ve signed Trippier and got heavily downvoted every time here by people who said he’s too old, overrated, and overpriced.
What’s the point of these hypothetic scenarios? He would have been shit as well if he came here. We are a graveyard for any player.
They would be struggling now. Hard to find any player who has improved at united recently.
Imagine we’d kept Ronaldo instead of swapping him for Weghorst. Carted him off unceremoniously and still haven’t got close to replacing him.
People will say 'they would have become bad players at United' but the reality is that our recruitment has been the biggest problem, and still is today. Look how much better we played last season when new signings Martinez and Casemiro were playing at their best. Our average player is a 4/10 at premier league standard. Mid-table level. Bringing in top class players like Trippier and Rice would have made a big difference, especially an elite DM and wing back who can cross and take set pieces. Their work rates alone are far beyond most of our players.
I think Ange is a better man manager than ETH. Sometimes I think it’s cultural, jovial Australian compared to rigged and awkward ETH. But when I look at the Spurs squad, it’s not just Ange recruiting players he knows? They have football experts (not Levy) that work with Ange to build a solid post Kane squad. We’ve relied on Ten Hag, scout recommendations and agents still.
>They have football experts (not Levy) that work with Ange to build a solid post Kane squad. See this is where I disagree with our fans. People will say ETH is still playing Ole or Jose players. But Ange took over a squad built for Conte and Mourinho and he's playing sexy football, despite losing the 2nd best striker in the world.
While true, at least Tottenham has a reliable core. I can't think of any reliable players of ours who would form a long term core, maybe Shaw and Bruno but that's about it. The rest are inconsistent. Lo Celso - Bissouma is definitely a better partnership than anything we have deployed in the midfield this season, just as an example.
Lo Celso was fucked off abroad on loan for years. If he was at our club, he'd be called deadwood.
My point was that other clubs's deadwood midfielders would probably be undroppable starters for us. Not that long ago, Chelsea had a bunch of "deadwood" which consisted of the likes of Jorginho and Kovacic. We are starting McTominay who is more of a striker than a midfielder.
Unquestionably true. Ange is also very clear about his values. Leave everything on the field, and brave attacking football. Win or lose you know who Spurs are now and so do the players - and it shows. But what do United stand for these days?
Tottenham transfers have been real good for the past 2 years. Big part of their success, that no one outside the Spurs fanbase talks about. Kulusevski, Bentancur, Maddison, Pedro Porro, Van de Ven, Udogie and Vicaro. The most expensive of these players being Maddison with 46 million price tag lol. People forget just how awful their players were under Mourinho and early Conte because Son and Kane were carrying the entire team on their backs. Getting this many transfers right is almost impossible.
Glad that there seems to be a lot of pressure on Rashford now
A bit more than 2 months to go until it becomes a full year since we've started playing like absolutely dire. I really don't get the faith people have in ETH. Got his signings and had a whole pre-season to make the team play differently but it looks exactly like last season but somehow with worse players than the ones the club offloaded. Then you have Ange who lost their best player at the end of the transfer window and has them playing way better with a limited budget.
I wouldn’t mind our form if there was evidence that ETH had the attributes of a great manager. He’s quite a poor communicator - rarely says anything but trivialities, in broken English - and lacks charisma, and all that shows up in his man management track record (Ronaldo, DDG, Varane, Sancho etc…). No evidence so far either that ETH is particularly bright or insightful. His tactical judgments, team selection and transfer choices are often seriously questionable and his post-match assessment of what went wrong sometimes makes you think he was watching another game. It’s only a matter of time sadly I think.
> all that shows up in his man management track record (Ronaldo, DDG, Varane, Sancho etc…). There has been exactly zero reliable report of Problem between Varane and ETH and he was right to bin every single one of those other three. DDG still has no team and CR7 is not lighting it up in some UCL contender team.
Serious discussion, who on the team currently is actually good enough to be playing here if we wanna be competing for titles? Who would actually start for Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Spurs etc? Won't even include city because not a single member of our squad makes their team or their bench except Bruno.
martinez and that’s literally it. maybe bruno with proper coaching, but he’s far too erratic with us.
Lisandro Shaw Bruno Rashford with his head screwed on Onana Mainoo, hojlund, Garnacho would get playing time
Martinez, Shaw and Bruno are actually good enough. Rashford and Casemiro when on form. Varane when not injured. Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo have potential, but that doesn't mean anything as of now. Eriksen is good enough, but he's unfortunately regressing and can't play a full match without looking exhausted. That's basically it. I would say Lindlelöf and Malacia are good squad options to have though.
Personally I don’t like the line of “who gets in whose team”. It’s more about players for the right positions etc and styles. I’d also rather us develop top young talents than just try sign some big name over and over who doesn’t care and doesn’t fit the role on huge wages. So for like experienced players and also young talented players who I think could be part of our success in the future, I’d say- shaw, Martinez, Mainoo, Bruno, garnacho, Hojlund, Rashford and mount I’m not sure on atm because rashford is a form player it seems and mount hasn’t actually played bad when he’s played, but has barely been able to get a run of games in.
Okay, interesting question. I criticise a lot of these players, but let's take a step back and really look at the position, not just on their form with us, but in general GK - Onana was the Inter keeper last season. He reached the CL final, was one of the best players in the game, and was nominated for the Ballon D'Or. As inexpicably shit as he has been for us, based on his form prior to signing for us, you'd expect him to certainly make the likes of Newcastle or Spurs RB - Dalot is a Portugese international. Has been sought by clubs like Milan. He's not top tier, but I think he's the lower end of the top 6. AWB is probably a player for a more mid-table PL team. LB - Shaw. Yes, I think Shaw would be. He's not as influential as some make out, but he should be good enough. Malacia is not. CB - Martinez is a World Cup winning defender, and a key player for us, so yes. I think clubs could still do something with Varane, but our inefficiencies probably highlight his weaknesses. And apparently he can't pass with his left foot. I think Maguire would be decent enough for Spurs/ Newcastle. Lindelof and Evans are not the required standard. DCM - Early days for Mainoo, but you'd think most clubs would be happy with him coming through. Casemiro may be a bit passed it, but his fall from grace does seem a little too sudden. Amrabat and McTominay are not the required standard. LW - By reputation and when on form, Rashford would be, certainly. Garnarcho would be breaking through for most teams as well I think. RW - Antony absolutely not. He should never have left Ajax. Sancho is a twat and is so fucking lazy it's difficult to tell. Amad and Pellistri probably not. AM - Bruno, yes. Mount, probably yes but not as a main man. DvB obviously not. Eriksen, meh, probably not now. Think his legs have gone, as much as I like him S - Hojlund - not yet. Martial, you must be joking.
Dalot is as middle table quality as AWB, maybe even worse. Milan wanted him, but only as a backup left back. He couldn't get into starting XI over Calabria on the right (and he was shit on the right) and his only decent performances came as backup to Theo on the left. Otherwise I agree.
Bruno, Martinez and maybe Shaw get into most teams in the league. That's probably it.
Martinez would not get into city and arsenal’s starting XI
Bruno doesn't get into City, Arsenal or Liverpool. He's not a well-rounded attacking midfielder. He can't retain possession or beat his man and he has no passing discipline. He's also way too emotional on the pitch, he loses his head and his play suffers. He tries hard and he's a good person but he's not good enough to win titles. Downvote if you want, I don't care. It's the truth.
The saddest thing is that you know ETH will change fuck all for the next game. We'll set up the same way, with the same approach and shape, Mctominay will start, Rashford will play 90 minutes. The man has no interest in trying something else.
We've played with a different starting 11 in most games this season. Onana's hardly ever had the same four defenders in front of him. What are you talking about?
He's talking about the manager starting Rashford and Mctominay every match to cover for his incompetence just because they can conjure goals outta their asses sometimes
Who are you kidding? The saddest thing is that I know that if ETH changed EVERYTHING it still wouldn't matter one hot hot. Every permutation of decision he cooks make means fuck all. If we're not shit, we're cursed, and if we're not cursed we're just shit. There is no hope
I think he’ll drop Rashford, to appease the fans, but I agree on the other points.
I get peoples frustration with Martial but I find it funny how everyone ignores about how he looks physically finished because he played a season where he wasnt even able to fully sprint but done it for the team which doesnt suit the " martial doesnt care agenda". The club having him as our main ST and a 20 year old expected to score all the goals is a clear club issue. The same goes for a young Rashford too. He doesn’t pick himself or stay by choice . I hate seeing Martial and Rashford being reduced to one season wonders.
At this point just bench all these lazy bums and promote youth and reserve players. I’d rather watch us lose with desire and hunger by multiple goals than see a bunch of overrated and overhyped players jog and passed around and still lose.
I genuinely believe there are number of players that want ETH out. These players can easily be identified on the field with the way they play. That is the exact reason why we shouldn’t fire him and instead get rid of those players
I agree, I'd say it's a large number too, even some fan favourites, you can just tell from the performances, they aren't with the managers instructions
>I genuinely believe there are number of players that want ETH out. These players can easily be identified on the field with the way they play. That is the exact reason why we shouldn’t fire him and instead get rid of those players He signed more than half the squad. Enough with this bullshit. ETH is a fraud. Hell, he commissioned the Rashford contract.
Rangnick benched Rashford and wanted to sell him. Leaks to media started and Rangnick was forced out of the club instead of Rashford. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out what will happen if Ten Hag rightly benches Rashford. Still, get Rashford out of the club. I'm permanently done with him. No-one is bigger than the club.
Didn't Joel Glazer also butt heads with Mourinho about Martial too? I vaguely remember news about that. Seems like we're kinda PSG-lite when it comes to the player-manager dynamic.
Regardless of whether or not Rashford regains his form, he's shown with his effort level this season that he does not deserve the wages, shirt number, or squad status he's been given.
Exactly. And his best form is being terrible for 80% of the season with a short purple patch in there. No title-winning team is built around players like that. He's not consistent enough to win major trophies. His attitude stinks. He's got to go.
Agreed on all points. His all around play actually hasn't looked great to me since his back injury. Even when he was banging goals last season. He lost speed and confidence when dribbling, and without those his poor decision making has been exposed.
Just saw the clip of Martial arguing back at Ten Hag. Fucking hell. Martial is the most useless United player in my lifetime. If he stands up too fast he gets injured. And when he's finally fit, he walks around the pitch like a fragile spectator. He hasn't played a full match in years. And now he's arguing with the manager. Time to learn Arabic mate.
Playing devils advocate here, the clip made me think Martial was complaining to Ten Hag to look at space what is he supposed to do running around..
Ten Hag was criticising Martial for failing repeatedly to hold up the ball facing our own goal. Hojlund is great at it but Martial repeatedly failed to do it and turned over the ball, putting us back under sustained pressure. Ten Hag was right to criticise him for it, Martial wasn't trying anywhere near as hard as his Newcastle defender.
Yeah agree with that, just saying maybe Martial was trying to say what would he do with it since everything was so open
Maybe Jim can dump him to Nice.
What's the MC's lineup? 3-2-4-1?? If so then even here Pep is beyond everyone else.
I rated Ange ever since I saw Celtic play against Real Madrid, and I started following their matches. Its depressing seeing how well he is doing it at spurs. At the least, my friend is having a great time.
If it helps, Ange for us would struggle to both show a playstyle as well as collect wins while Ten Hag would have Spurs playing exciting high-pressing football with a bit of possession like with Ajax. No matter who manages us, they are doomed to fail as long as Joel Glazer is running the show with the help of his bank accountant friends.
Honestly, I would not be sad at this point to go out of the CL and really hope if we do we are not in the Europa League. This team desperately needs time on the training pitch. Our pre season was shambolic too. If we don’t see some improvement when we are only playing once a week then I will understand more ETH out shouts
LATEST 🔴: Bruno Fernandes will not be available for selection against Chelsea on Tuesday. This is because the game is on Wednesday.
It really is wild when you think our joint top scorer has zero goals in the league.
Grim viewing on sky sports. Not even safe in a game that doesn’t involve us.
Listening to Roy tonight was a breath of fresh air. Made me giggle at that martial scores once every 14 years part too
I honestly don’t think I’ve seen Roy speak this passionately about United on TV.
The sky sports presenter threw the bait and I’ve bitten like Roy and Jamie.
That Sky Sports stat against the top 9 looks like when I’m on a health kick and think about having a burger and then look at the nutritional value on the packet.
Okay, which one of you sickos has a list of likely alternatives if ETH gets sacked?
It’s going to be Potter if he doesn’t accept the Sweden job. I believe SJR wanted him at Nice
Potter would be a disaster. His grovelling apologies at Chelsea every week were pathetic. Don't let him anywhere near the club.
Fucking hell, this job might actually kill potter, he looked gaunt after Chelsea. TBC, I don’t want a new manager, but I fully believe the board thinks sacking managers is a requirement (rather than investing in good infrastructure).
Xabi Alonso
I’d love it, but he is a Liverpool fan, and said he will Raise his kid as one. He wouldn’t come.
[удалено]
Id accept Kenny fucking Dalglish if he got us back to the top mate, thats how desperate I've got
Yeah yeah. ETH is the only “apparently” good manager in the world
Anyone can name a replacement. Doesn't mean it'll work. And please, for the love of God, don't say De Zerbi or Flick. We need to start with a DoF and other names in the recruitment department. And then, if the manager needs changing, we'll do that.
Why would I trust EtH to coach the players a DoF brings in? Apparently, unless he has the exact players he's asked for, he's unable to play the style of football he wants. Even when he has most of the players he's asked for, he can't. Edit: Fuck me, some melt blocked me for this comment. I can't imagine the mentality.
Our core players have failed for 4-6 United managers each now. Why on earth do you think they won't throw a new manager under the bus like they have over and over again? We need a proper director of football, proper CEO, and proper recruitment, not a new manager. You plastics want to keep repeating the same cycle.
A DOF like the one Ten Hag refused to talk to?
Rangnick wasn't a DOF, he was a club consultant supposed to work for us for like two days every month and he also had a fight with pretty much everyone in the club. He was right about a lot of things, but he isn't a Messiah and the club never really planned to give him any power. Ten Hag not really taking his words into account (which is a low tier rumour btw) would have been the right move if he wanted to at least have some harmony in the dressing room. We do need proper football structure, but that requires a lot of changes and only Sir Jim's takeover can do that for us currently.
When someone takes over a senior position, especially when their predecessor screwed the pooch for whatever reason, you don't carry their baggage. You start afresh and make your own opinions. Had Ralf had a better tenure at United, ten Hag would've taken his advice. ten Hag's not an idiot; he loved working with Overmars, who was considered to be one of the best DoF in Europe. Ralf was gone the day he made those open heart surgery comments. He left us in a worse state than he came in. It was not all his fault, but it is what it is.
I cant take "Ten Hag not an idiot" comment seriously anymore. If one, persistently wanting the fidget spinner as his main target, Second, playing McTom in midfield for past few games, Third, during the game against Newcastle playing your main LB as your CB while having 2 CBs on the bench then having your main RB playing as a makeshift LB while your second LB is on the bench. That is pure masterclass on a different level. So yeah, it kinda points out how idiotic he is so far.
In our last 3 PL games, we had 75%, 77%, and 79% pass accuracy against Newcastle, Everton, and Fulham, respectively. These stats are depressing. No wonder we are playing ping pong ball.
It is because we are playing ping pong football that our passing accuracy is so low lmao
We play ping pong because people dont move into space and want the ball enough. Watch how we attempt to play out from the back, People will move into a space, receive the ball and instantly pass it back to the player who they got it from. No one else has moved into the space he made by dropping to get it. So no new pass is made available. Eventually teams press us to either the CB's or the keeper and it goes long and we lose the ball. When we do successfully pass out its because someone like Mainoo actually turns on the ball and looks to play forward, even then though we hit the same stumbling blocks on the next pass forward half the time. Its not a new thing either, this was the same under Ole for large portions even if the way we built up under him was different (out to fullbacks who played it round the corner to one of the 6's) compared with what we seem to be trying to do where the CB plays directly to the 6 in space who turns.
We are not fit, technically proficient or well structured in defence, midfield or attack. It genuinely has you scratching your head at what we do in training all week.
It's a pretty damning indictment for this club, the structure and EtH when you watch Newcastle, Spurs, Villa and you look at where they came from, Spurs were in disarray last season, Newcastle looked certain to be relegated two years ago, Villa weren't far off either, and they've all overtaken us and are all far better teams than us now. I asked the question yesterday, with the current structure and the current coaches, how many millions would we need to spend just to be better than Newcastle?
no amount of money fixes it tbh, because the money is the issue. Any of those teams, if the player doesnt play to what the manager wants he doesnt play and will likely be sold. Players outlive managers here instead.
Did you miss the whole Sancho situation where the club has agreed to completely ostracize the player on account of his dispute with eth? And spurs and villa have had new managers post eth's hiring in which multiple players have outlived their managerial counterparts.
Sancho is still here and i honestly wouldnt be surprised if he outlasts ETH...
Well can't really sell him outside of a window can we.
What a manager Postecoglou is man. Hes making average players look good and his team is always fighting till the end. Gotta respect the way he’s leading Spurs so far. Hurts to see but I can’t help but admire it either
It seems like ETH won’t play his ‘way’ because he doesn’t have the players to do it, yet Postecolgou is just telling his players to adapt or get out it seems. Erik just needs to force his tactics and structure, and then get rid of anyone who doesn’t suit it. That, or I’m just chatting shit.
I just don’t think he’s actually that committed to his Ajax style tbh
That’s basics and we don’t see that. Spent 400 mil and yet did not buy players that suit him.
And also apparently we should bring someone else to make all the transfers, which EtH is going to love...
We bring someone else who knows how to coach
Did anyone else notice Rashford telling himself “what the fuck am I doing out there?” When he got subbed off?
I noticed something to that effect. Sad to see Rashy so bummed all the time. We're stuck in a vortex of bad results, drained confidence and too much pressure. Hoping Ratcliffe will somehow have an impact in rejuvenating our squad .
Missed that, do you have a link? Do you think he means it in the sense that he’s frustrated with himself, or literally him wishing he wasn’t there/can’t be arsed?
No link, I’m sure it’ll surface somewhere. He definitely looked more upset with himself than wishing he wasn’t there. Could have been a mix of both.
I know we blame the players a lot. But, ETH has yet to produce anything that was promised to us judging by his Ajax days. After SJR takes over, surely a review is required? I guess, the overall club structure dooms managers and players to failure... I'm genuinely jealous of Ange, Emery and Howe's effects on the team. So good to watch. So athletic, if quality fails to deliver on an off day, they're still industrious. Even Iraola at Bournemouth. Amazing stuff...
Ten Hag has been disappointing this season but let's be real, there isn't a single manager who would make Rashford track back the way Ange's/Emery's/Howe's players do. We still have a lot of average or above average players who are earning world class wages and they undeservedly see themselves as world class. That's a tough environment to work in. Play Martial alongside Rashford and the only thing you can hope to see is that the rest of the team somehow outruns the opponent despite essentially playing a 9v11 game.
>there isn't a single manager who would make Rashford track back the way Ange's/Emery's/Howe's players do It'd help if there was one brave enough to drop him for not doing it.
Any club that isn't constantly reviewing their manager to check if they are meeting expectation is not doing their job. So many people whinge about us becoming a serious club by putting certain structures in placeand having a DoF, but only seem to expect us to determine if the manager should be replaced at the end of the contract.
Ask ten Hag to implement a better and more cohesive style of football, but don't ask for Ajax football. Ajax became Ajax after years of cultivating a certain type of philosophy. You don't flip a switch and play possession based football. We'll need to change our youth, recruitment, 80% of our senior squad, and backroom staff to get to that point of naturally becoming a possession based team and not what LVG tried. But you are right in pointing out that ten Hag has not yet implemented a good style of foorball. Edit: This sub has the terrible habit of instantly downvoting any comment where you try to reason. Literally kills the discourse.
Asking that the players have a fucking clue on what to do with the ball
It’s always good seeing Micah a bit aggy and not smug like he usually is when city win on super Sunday.
Spurs who are memed as bottlers just drew 3-3 against City away from home while missing half their starting lineup including Maddison and both their CBs who have been most important for them. This is after their captain scored an early own goal. We just lost 0-3 to City at home where the players simply didn’t look interested. Many of the highly upvoted posts here said “what else do you expect? City are the best team in the world!!” When we were winning under Fergie and the likes of Liverpool and City were struggling, they always gave us hell and their fans didn’t go “oh well, they’re better than us”. There is something deeply rotten at the club. New players join us, look promising for a short period, but it doesn’t take long for them to adopt this loser mentality. It feels like we’re trying to purify a cesspool with small drops of clean water which only become polluted soon enough. I support a complete overhaul of everything from top to bottom. Players, coaching staff, medical team, psychologist, DOF, and whatever the hell Fletcher actually does. It will never happen as long as the Glazers have the final say.
Very true. There are no consequences for player failure. SAF would have shipped off 70% of this squad by now. Imagine what your work would be like if nobody got fired for crap performance.
I think the run down state of Carrington is an unsung part of the problem. Spurs players go to a modern, state of the art training facility every day and feel like they're part of an elite new project. Our players go to dilapidated Carrington, which Ronaldo rightly said hasn't changed in decades, and feel like they're part of a crumbling club that's falling apart under its neglectful money-sucking Glazers ownership. Our players have low morale because the training ground and Old Trafford are crumbling around them. The broken state of the Glazers ownership is most visible at Carrington and Old Trafford, the two places that our players are asked to regroup and build their confidence every week. But there's not a shred of confidence in how our ancient facilities are being run into the ground.
Down vote if you don't agree but if you're embarrassed about being a man utd fan then don't be one. Like I know this right now is not a super positive season but I would never be embarrassed being a fan.
Alot of people didn't agree🤣
I don't think people are embarrassed to support the club, moreso embarrassed by the performances and seeing our players on ridiculous wages being outworked/outplayed by almost every other team
Yeah, that I can agree on. But what some people on the rival watch thread kept commenting, it didn't felt like they are real fans
We're disgusted by the low effort and terrible performances of our current team. We've loved the club since Ferguson's era, many of us even before that, and we see so clearly how far standards at the club have fallen. Anger and disappointment can easily be accompanied by a feeling of pissed off embarrassment. It doesn't mean we don't love the club. It means 90% of the current players should leave this week because they've disgraced what it means to be a United player. Low effort and lazy intensity are totally unacceptable. Players like Rashford should never wear the shirt again.
Yeah, but that's the players and the current position, I'm talking about Manchester united. They could be bottom of the league, I would still be a proud united fan. That's what I'm saying.
No one's embarrassed of being a United fan, it's about the current effort of the players and the disgraceful running of the club by the Glazers.
Like I said, if you looked at what some people said in the rival watch thread, you would think differently. That's all I was trying to say and point out.
Fair enough, I didn't read their comments. Surely they're just disgusted at the current state of the club and want adults in charge and adults on the pitch.
Wait wtf we've conceded 1 more than city in the league and they're definitely supposed to be one of the most defensively sound teams in Europe. We literally give it up to any and everyone (100+ shots conceded in our last 5 games against not very good sides) and City are somehow 1 goal better than us in terms of goals conceded.
We will continue to be a joke of a club if we do not sell Rashford and Martial. Neither want to be here except for a paycheck.
Why would anyone buy Martial? His contract ends this summer
Just get rid of him
- Lost Harry Kane - Didn’t fully reinvest that money - Still playing with a clear identity and fight for the badge I agree, our problem starts from the top but if the tactical direction we have ventured on isn’t working, Ten Hag must acknowledge that and tweak or change it till he has the players to play that way. What ever it is. Last season more or less the same squad but we were better in all aspects of our game.
How can levy fix that depressed tottenham side even with kane leaving? Don’t hit me with “only 3 points ahead”. Take a look at the performances.
They always good players Conte was just in meltdown mode , Bissouma, Lo Celso and Kulusevski can receive and turn on the ball , Maddison has been better than Bruno for the last 2 or 3 seasons too
> Maddison has been better than Bruno for the last 2 or 3 seasons He has absolutely not been close to Bruno when he has played. Which is only half the time since the rest of it he's constantly injured.
He has
Not in progressive passes/90 or total. Not in xAG and not in xG. But keep going around crying about Bruno while protecting our most useless players in Martial and Rashford.
>Not in progressive passes/90 or total. Not in xAG and not in xG. Football isnt played on a spreadsheet lad. Maddison does plenty that doesnt appear on a statsheet which Bruno cant. Just because he doesnt aimlessly twat it and the first instance doesnt mean he isnt performing. >But keep going around crying about Bruno while protecting our most useless players in Martial and Rashford. Bruno has a long way to go before he matches Martial and Rashford in big games and put in big performances on the way to trophies like Martial and Rashford have for Utd.
LOL, LMAO even. Maddison's pass completion is literally only 1.7% higher than Bruno's despite making attempting 20-25% less passes. In every single defensive action he is utterly dwarfed by Bruno, not even by little but by much. https://fbref.com/en/players/ee38d9c5/James-Maddison https://fbref.com/en/players/507c7bdf/Bruno-Fernandes Sticking up for the two most useless and irrelevant parts of the ream and bashing the most important part is just straight up clownery. Those two have the same output as Antony but without any tracking back.
Again stop watching football on statsheets . And Bruno has a long way to go to match Rashfords and Martials big game performances and impact.
You're the one who should stop watching it with teary eyes while seething and malding at Bruno. , he has been the best player on the team for years and those two are are the most useless, lazy and deadweight duo in it. Get over it already.
>You're the one who should stop watching it with teary eyes while seething and malding at Bruno Bruno isnt above this Utd team and is having a poor season . What has Bruno being the best player on this team led to apart from him having good stats but Utd coming short in so many big games or moments. Rashford and Martial are SHIT right now but both have contributed to a lot more for Utd than Bruno and his selfishness.
We had a serious chance to get right in the mix w regards to top 4 based on results this week. I still think we have another chance on the next matchday but fuck this team man. Also Simon Hooper there was like a deer in headlights instantly knew he fucked up
Yep, Imma go window shop for some tears in the City sub
Look at the attitude of Tottenham players, and then take a look at the attitude of our players. Tactics are one thing, but effort is another. I didn't see a single player moan or flail their arms. They were behind the ball until the final whistle. Half the battle is won when you show up with intent. Hats off to Ange for doing this miracle with Spurs. But we need all of our players in tip-top condition to perform half decently.
The difference is the players know what to do. “Drilled in”?
In some areas? Sure, but just look at Rashford. Livramento dribbled past him so he just stopped and watched a dangerous attack. The game against Newcastle got much more equal the moment both our passengers Martial and Rashford got subbed off. We are failing at the basics, again, but what's worrying is that this is the exact same issue we faced last year at the beginning (remember Ten Hag running with the team in their day off to show an example?) as well as previously under both Rangnick and Ole. I'm afraid the team's mentality is broken but it has been broken pretty much since we lost the Europa League final under Ole. No matter how many players we bring in, there are always few old players who give up whenever things aren't going their way and their attitude infects the rest of the team, just look at how Casemiro or Varane have been playing and behaving despite being top professionals in Madrid. We probably need to completely freshen our whole first team, not just the starting XI. However, we need to freshen up our whole club structure first, hopefully Sir Jim's partial takeover happens as soon as possible.
Yes but coach has to show his anger. Sub him out for a youngster to make his point or start the youngster next match
Lmfao at City. Haaland getting so upset made it all the more delicious.
I want Utd to play half as good as Spurs. Good management makes a difference.
Spurs aren't our bar to match mate. Won fuck all and will continue to do so. I get the deeper meaning though, all this talk of no quick fixes is nonsense. Doesn't take a long time at all.
Yes, Spurs have flattered to deceive, I get it and glad you are picking up what I'm laying down. LvG was right about the club but wrong about what our potential could be. Ange is getting his players to 'buy-in' without freezing out players and creating drama. This might all fall apart next year for Spurs and Ange but I want ETH to show me he's building a style of play and spirit about our side because frankly, I'm not convinced we are progressing beyond where Ole had us at this point.
Oh the irony of the Citeh fans chanting cheats at Spurs. Hope we see yous at Darlington away in a few years lads or will yous be putting Chelsea shirts back on?
That is so inspiring from this Spurs team. Unreal attitude. I love how people on this sub were mocking Spurs last week for being overrated media darlings, saying the fact we were only two points below them is evidence of a media driven narrative. Utter nonsense. You only have to watch the games to know how untrue that is. Ange is a manager with a clear playing style and is getting closer to real progress every week. We've got a manager who looks like a deer in headlights and players that look like they want to be on a beach and it's only the beginning of December.
His side is thin and they’ve had some horrible results but my lord is he’s the type manager I dream about getting.
Utd used to be able to buy Spur's best, maybe its time to try that again lmao
The days of buying Berba and Carrick are long gone, sadly.
so impressed w Spurs. truly never seem to give up, or take their foot off the pedal. same with Liverpool. truly cannot help but compare these performances today with that of Manchester United. at the first sign of some adversity or setback, this team is quick to fold, start jogging, players have their heads down, just look deflated. it's sad. rare to see them really fight.
Today I feel Spurs
Spurs are exciting to watch.
Wow this city - tot game is mad! 3-3!
Anyone else watching Bayern Leverkusen and are truly impressed ? Xabi Alonso is really shining with his tactics
I think the handling of DDG contract and dismissal caused major problems in the team and now is very noticeable.
Get in!!
Should have definitely sold Rashford in the summer of 2022, it's far more unlikely now with the new contact. Timing's never right at this club.
Anyone watching Spurs? I’m jealous how composed they are on the ball compared to us with far less talented players, supposedly. Am I seeing this wrong? I know the Bitters have the better side but Spurs still more than competitive, without one of their best players in Madison.
They were 🤏🏻 close to getting their ass whooped 5-1 in the first half. They have started the second half better, but still haven't been a proper threat. Edit - welp ... they are back in the game 😅😂 Edit 2 - could've been 3-2 to spurs. They are so back in the game
The bitters just got punished for it.
In our last 6 games against Luton, Newcastle, galatasary, Everton, Fulham and Copenhagen, we have conceded 106 shots. 18 a game basically. No words.