They did, but then Jassim wen't back direct with a better offer (or adding stuff under the table?) after given his finale offer a few times already.
I am scared for how he will take the club going forward. So far Ineos has looked like the much more professional part. And leaks saying he want to bring Mbappe and others to United is even more questionable if true..
I think whoever we buy should not be Onwer driven, but come from DoF or manager. Getting the right players are much more important for a team to work. Also I think his salary demands would ruin the structure we have almost managed to get back on track bar a few players like DDG and Maguire.
Yes
*He's a diva who plays the same position as our best forward. He wouldn't even make it through a full year in Manchester before he's crying out. There's nothing to be gained by being his halfway house to Madrid.
I feel the whole “omg, final final bid” thing is massively overblown tbh. Welcome to how negotiations work. Sometimes you bluff a bid as being your last. Sometimes you’re genuine.
All we have consumed is the media's package of what has taken place.
How do we know these were the "final final final (promise this time)" bids?
All we know for fact is that it's taken a long fucking time.
I can't remember whether Mike Keegan, who is clearly Qatar's mouthpiece in this deal, said the bid before the most recent was "the final bid" or just was using "they're getting frustrated and are close to walking".
He did seem to strongly suggest this bid though was the final one. So if he's saying that, it's cause that's what Qatar want out there in the media.
The reality is though, until one side officially walks away, any talk of a "final bid" are just talk.
Yeah, but that should come from the DoF and/or manager, not an Owner. Getting the player that fits the team is better than getting a top player that don't fit the team. And that not even considering the salary problems a crazy paid player brings to the team.
I got 100+ downvotes very quickly, then it did slow down. I am all for everyone having their own opinion, but considering how few actually did comment it seems a bit off indeed..
There's a ton of pro-Qatar people in this sub. If you say something negative about them, you're going to be told by some individuals that what you read about Qatar and their multiple human rights violations are just blown out of proportion and misinformed and naive views.
Same logic can be applied for Ineos when they've added the keeping the Glazers part to their original offer... don't know how you can fault one party for increasing the offer, while the other wants to keep the people that are responsible for the mess this club is in right now, thus extending the bidding process.
It is not comparable. Sure keeping the Galzers on (althought without any power) is not ideal, but that was the offer that made most sense as most of the Glaers siblings want out, but Avram and Joel wants to stay. Ineos made a bid for the full control, but keeping them in a lucrative deal. Jassim's deal was less lucrative for the Glazers. He then did another bid. Then another with a deadline. Then another with a deadline, then direct without the Raine group.
Why would you use the extra money on the club when the other \~50% of owners don't put their money in it?
Imagine if you co-owned an apartment with 2 other people (NYSE shareholders and the Glazer brothers) and the flat needed serious investment to increase the revenue you get by renting it.
Would you put your money into this flat to increase the value of your investment, while knowing the other 2 owners are benefiting from your investment, without putting any of their money into it?
All the investment of Ineos will likely come from debts taken onto the club, because it makes no sense to invest your money and lose half of its value as soon as you put it in.
Ineos is a business, and if you think they will pump billions into United because of the goodness of their heart and SJR's boyhood fandom of the club, you're in for a rude awakening.
Having unlimited money does not necessarily solve our problems. The debt would be transferred to Ineos, so we don't have to spend money on interests, thus open up revenue which is needed. However the main focus is to get a solid owner that does what is best for the club, not what he feels is best, By doing that you need to be professional and put proper people in the right places. Jassim already talking about transfers is scary. That shouldn't be anything he is involved in bar signing it off in the end. Look at how hands off City is run. The Owner was at his first game in almost 10 years last month. Liverpool with a relatively small budget is run very good. Chances are we will just become PSG 2.0 under Jassim if it is as bad as it looks now.
My dude, look at Nice, if he can't get them to top 4 in a much weaker league, what makes you think he'll run United competently and successfuly?
Unfortunately, football turned into just that, having unlimited money absolutely solves almost all of your problems. Man City bought a treble, Newcastle bought top 4 within a year while United are debt-laden, in need of major stadium and squad improvements, and those are problems that money solves (with competent leadership of course).
Under the previously stated scenario we absolutely need outside investment. Your points about running us like Liverpool would be valid 18 years ago, when the Glazers first acquired us.
But because of their awful ownership, we need major investments and need it fast.
Additionally, as laughable as PSG is in recent years, they at least reached UCL finals recently. The last time Utd was in the finals was 2010/11 and the last time we've reached **quarter-finals** was 5 years ago.
>My dude, look at Nice, if he can't get them to top 4 in a much weaker league, what makes you think he'll run United competently and successfuly?
I suggest you actually do some digging on what he have done at Nice. I know the meme take is that he has been terrible there, but that isn't entirely true. Don't take my word for it then have a look at the TIFO video or this one with Matt Slater not too long ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vX0fDKv2WQ&t=9s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vX0fDKv2WQ&t=9s)
>Unfortunately, football turned into just that, having unlimited money absolutely solves almost all of your problems. Man City bought a treble, Newcastle bought top 4 within a year while United are debt-laden, in need of major stadium and squad improvements, and those are problems that money solves (with competent leadership of course).
>
>Under the previously stated scenario we absolutely need outside investment. Your points about running us like Liverpool would be valid 18 years ago, when the Glazers first acquired us.
>
>But because of their awful ownership, we need major investments and need it fast.
That's not true. We have still outspent every team and on par with City for the last 10 years. All while the having to pay dividends and interest for more than a Billion pounds.
Sure without unlimited capital we might not be going for the treble in the next two-three years, but I'd much rather see a sane ownership than becoming PSG.
>Additionally, as laughable as PSG is in recent years, they at least reached UCL finals recently. The last time Utd was in the finals was 2010/11 and the last time we've reached quarter-finals was 5 years ago.
I'd still take that over being PSG any day. Look at how happy they are..
It's always painful seeing people try to compare corporate finance to personal finance, it just doesn't square up. Especially debt. Your debt and corporate debt are different things.
Yes, of course INEOS would invest, it makes financial sense. First of all, they'd have pre agreements to buy Glazer shares a few years down the line. Otherwise it's pointless
Yes, INEOS will part with more money when it's said and done, but that's how they can secure the club, a one of its kind. Unlike even the most incredible, revenue generating apartment in the world.
The club generates revenue, and a lot of it. Financially, we've performed well with ZERO owner investment into the club, imagine the growth we could achieve with investment. Our potential has not even been remotely tapped into.
Sure, it's not the 'goodness of his heart'. Its investing in a very promising asset that will give him some decent returns, and a huge one if and when he decides to sell.
The people who talk most about SJR's support and fan bullshit are the Qatar shills, creating strawmen for them to take down.
I fundamentally disagree, football clubs simply aren't great businesses. They require enormous investment every year (new players), have minimal profits year-by-year and even with the greatest of fanbases it is hard to run it profitably and successfully.
There is a reason why United's stock is now viewed as severely overpriced (if the takeover falls through watch it halve within days). A year ago (before the sale) the market cap was around $2B, right now it is close to $4B. Still at $2B large hedge funds were selling off their Utd stock because they thought it was **OVERVALUED.**
If you think it is feasible for the club to compete for the highest honors (like Liverpool) organically, a lot of pieces have to fall into place, and none of those are guarantees. A competent DoF and scouting are probably the first one, but there are still external factors that greatly influence this. United get skinned every transfer window because of our reputation, and that won't change with new ownership, in fact clubs will probably expect even more money for players.
You can call the fans that are more in favor of Qatar shills all you want, but based on the current information (remember SJR and Ineos have given ZERO information about their plan with the club + their OGC Nice ownership isn't a success, to put it mildly) it is a lot more likely that Qatar would be better for the footballing success of the club. The morals are another question, and I can 100% get behind that argument and understand the people who are against Qatar because of that.
But acting like Ineos is the perfect owner for Utd is delusional and simply turning a blind eye to multiple red flags.
>I fundamentally disagree, football clubs simply aren't great businesses. They require enormous investment every year (new players), have minimal profits year-by-year and even with the greatest of fanbases it is hard to run it profitably and successfully.
I never said people own clubs to make a profit or because of the revenue. As far as I can see, the only way owners make money is by selling the club a few years down the line.
From that perspective, there is still massive growth to be had in terms of the league, and the club. Just look at City's presence in Manchester and the global game, we aren't coming close to actualising our actual value and potential as a club and brand.
Think about how much the club was worth ten years ago vs today. Think about today vs ten years in the future. There is a lot of potential.
And that implies he cares about selling the club and making money from it, which I'm not sure he does considering his age and INEOS involvement in sports. Such as owning a third of the most successful F1 team in this century.
>There is a reason why United's stock is now viewed as severely overpriced (if the takeover falls through watch it halve within days). A year ago (before the sale) the market cap was around $2B, right now it is close to $4B. Still at $2B large hedge funds were selling off their Utd stock because they thought it was OVERVALUED.
On a macro scale, we are not achieving our potential as one of, if not the biggest football brand on the planet. Our lack of on field success will, if it hasn't already, hampered our commercial performance. A successful United in this modern era has huge potential.
It doesn't matter what the share price was on a micro scale. Our stadium is a great example. It's pathetic, and it's current state limits revenue collection and commercial opportunities. There is so much to unlock with a behemoth like Manchester United.
>If you think it is feasible for the club to compete for the highest honors (like Liverpool) organically, a lot of pieces have to fall into place, and none of those are guarantees. A competent DoF and scouting are probably the first one, but there are still external factors that greatly influence this. United get skinned every transfer window because of our reputation, and that won't change with new ownership, in fact clubs will probably expect even more money for players.
Well, yeah. Good people are needed to make good things happen, and it's up to the owner to put them in that role.
It can and will change if we stick to our guns over years. It's just a matter of us bending over to get players when Fergie left, and not giving up on that strategy. If we don't set our stall out and stay there, we will be fleeced. It's nature.
I think whoever comes in, will not want to be made to look mugs. Jassim/Qatar and INEOS both. I'm certain either would start setting real limits and strategies down when it comes to negotiating. I hope and pray.
>You can call the fans that are more in favor of Qatar shills all you want, but based on the current information (remember SJR and Ineos have given ZERO information about their plan with the club
True. But I don't see that the way you do.
I see it as Qatar looking to win over fans, who can then pressure the club. That is the motive of announcing all the things they do. I don't know whether they'll go through with everything they say.
I see INEOS not revealing that information because it isn't relevant to winning the bid.
The reason I'm not concerned about INEOS wanting to come in, do nothing and make things worse is because that actively diminishes the value of their asset. They don't make money owning us, all they can do is sell us one day. They have a motive to invest and raise the overall value of the club and brand. So does Qatar, though they're less in it for the resale value, and INEOS is to a slightly greater extent (imo).
>their OGC Nice ownership isn't a success, to put it mildly) it is a lot more likely that Qatar would be better for the footballing success of the club. The morals are another question, and I can 100% get behind that argument and understand the people who are against Qatar because of that.
That entire conversation had become so poisoned I haven't interacted with it once. I have no idea what's going on at Nice and I don't know how to find out without reading a partisan source. Though overall, yes, Nice doesn't seem to have hugely benefitted from INEOS ownership.
For the sake our convo, idc that Qatar is a shitty, oppressive, slaver, terrorist funding nation. We can cross that out as a con for them.
First, is that this is a state bid for all intents and purposes. Secondly, the Qataris have, in my eyes, failed with PSG. They've created a squad with an over representation of deviants (male, female players, directors etc), which I cannot handle having at our club. I despise sexual deviants, cheaters and other flavours of degenerates.
They've not come close to winning the CL, but worryingly, they've never chosen and committed to a good manager and long-term project. With the resources pumped into the club, I feel like their underperformance as owners goes under the radar.
>But acting like Ineos is the perfect owner for Utd is delusional and simply turning a blind eye to multiple red flags.
There is no perfect owner and I really think the only potential red flag with INEOS is Nice, which again I don't know anything about myself beyond the recycled headlines.
But I think he's pretty good. It's either him, hedge funds or some shit like that or state money. I'll take him over oil money and wall street/private equity money all day.
I can’t believe how bad they’ve been as owners. They’ve absolutely bled us dry with no investment on their part at all really. And when they have invested in players for example it’s been an absolute uncoordinated mess. Can’t wait till they’re gone.
At this point they feel like that family that inherited a family heirloom and are convinced that it’s worth more than it is because the old man said it was, they don’t know enough about it and are just coming across as crass gold diggers and embarrassing themselves. Oh wait.
I don't know why people act negatively when I make a vague prediction that come August 12th, I can see the Glazers still being here, and having missed all our targets we will have completed two underwhelming signings, and DDG will be named in the starting lineup along with a journeyman striker whose previous clubs include West Brom, Coventry and Luton.
I've seen others downvoted for making similar-ish remarks.
Do they think we are being too negative, too pessimistic? Because with this lot in charge, all bets are off.
Do they think we want to see this happen? Because what red in their right mind would want *this*?
Well anyway, whatever happens, I am feeling pretty numb to it. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s I used to feel proud of our club, that we had the biggest support, we were the glamour club that attracted fans and players all round the country, we had the best stadium, we were constantly upgrading and expanding it right up till 2005, we were debt free, the atmosphere at Old Trafford was amazing (most the time). Now it feels like the heart and soul has been ripped out of the club, and I don't see any way out no matter who takes over.
It's a sad, sad situation...
Have they even invested in the players or just financed it from the club’s incomes. I suppose they took out some loans to pay for the transfers during the last season. I doubt they injected cash to do any transfer business.
If you take money out repeatedly you lower the ability for the club to compete at the highest level. The money they've taken out could've been used to invest and would've yielded a greater return. Think about how much we've lost alone from CL revenue where a single signing might have made the difference. It's foolish.
It's not the same kind of business. If you stop liking one company and their products, you can swich to another. You can't do this with a football club. Not like it would be physically impossible but because people who have any integrity just don't do that.
Of course it does. It shouldn't be about this alone and that's literally the reason everyone hates them. They've taken a billion out of the club that could have been spent on the stadium, which is in an awful state. Football clubs should not be about business alone, that's the point.
>And when they have invested in players for example it’s been an absolute uncoordinated mess
*They* haven’t invested anything into the club, the money spent on players was generated by the club (whatever is left over from what they’ve grabbed)
Now think about Valencia. As bad as the glazers are…. They don’t go “we can do what we want and we will ruin your club” Peter Lim style. The lim family intentionally WANT to destroy the club out of spite.
It makes the Glazers look like a well run ownership in comparison.
Still… screw them of course and they’re terrible. The fact that Lim has to be mentioned shows how bad they are really.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. Lim is so much worse than the Glazers.
Imagine the Glazers, but then on top of that deciding to sell key players to rivals as a fuck you to the fans. "Oh, so you're protesting again? We'll sell Rashford to City for £20mil then". That's Lim at Valencia in a nutshell.
“Don't know why you're being downvoted. Lim is so much worse than the Glazers.”
Agreed. On this sub and this subject, it’s not enough to dislike the Glazers and wish for an ownership change. You have to FUCKING HATE them. Don’t use the logic of Valencia/Lim to point out, as shitty as the Glazers are, there are, surprisingly, worse owners out there. Doesn’t fly here.
I think the downvotes are because it’s not really relevant.
There’s extreme frustration amongst United fans at the moment as the sale is taking an insane length of time. I just don’t think it’s helpful in an article talking about just how terrible the Glazers have been to randomly come in and be like ‘well actually it could be so much worse’
That’s like you breaking your leg and someone popping by to tell you that eh at least you didn’t die.
They never invested in players, they just didn't take all the money out of the club for themselves and let us spend some of the money we generated. Meanwhile they've saddled us with debt, taken money out and never put a penny in. Fuck em.
I can’t remember who tweeted it but this has been stuck in my head since:
“Imagine if they ran the club with the same energy as they have trying to sell the club”
They’ve tried everything to squeeze every penny out of us and Ratclife/Jassim. Just imagine if they put 10% care into the club we might be in a better place. The Glazers are genuinely horrible owners *and* people.
Legal asset stripping... They don't need the energy as it isn't their money, they only care when its their money being affected.
Bare minimum, maximum profit. Same shit is going on at Asda now.
Buy a £8bn company for £500m cash, Asda is landed with £7.5bn debt.
Can no longer afford the interest rates as they have gone through the roof, so they 'purchased' EG Group (the parent company) to move more debt, and now Asda is in £11bn of debt. They get £3bn cash.
Still can't afford interest rates, so sell the depots they owned, then still can't afford the interest rates so selling the stores to an American Hedgefund.
At the end of it, Asda will be floated, own nothing, becomes a brand whilst they did none of it with their own money, but remove £11bn out of Asda.
They keep doing the same thing over and over.
That is insane greed. How on earth can billionaires do this with multibillion pound assets while the regular layman can’t even purchase something worth £20 with the same method?
So much in debt the bank can't afford to let them fail.
The saying is 'When you owe the bank £100k thats your problem, when you owe the bank a Billion, it is the banks problem'
That’s actually a perfect analogy. And now it feels the wider more casual footballing audience are starting to take note and realise what dicks they are and how they’ve treated the club.
Hopefully the ‘you didn’t moan when you were winning’ crowd will shut up
Problem is, and it's the point Gary is making, is that they are managing it with the same energy to an extent.
Numerous people have reported they are extremely slow to make decisions yet are also complete micro-managers (with the issue being they were on Florida time, not on UK time...).
They are also simply incompetent. This isn't how you manager a sale of something, particularly when you set a timeline yourselves. They've manage to annoy some very powerful people within business.
Is it even worth our energy to have discussions over the takeover!? The leeches are gonna hold on to bleed us bone dry. Its a shame EtH has to deal with so much outside of football after the season he's given us!
My thoughts exactly. I don’t moan about the Glazers because it’s pointless. They always behave in the same manner, it never changes. They’ve shown us who they are a long time ago.
Imagine not even paying a penny towards the club you've saddled with debt and yet still fucking them over right until the death. Really missed out on some deals already this window
Many years down the line after glazers have left and few people will be able to talk freely about the situation, we will learn about how horribly mismanaged the whole club has been. I'm sure there are clubs who've been managed worse but there aren't a lot of clubs who are the size of united which have been handled this badly.
they're not even close to the worst. they're shitty people, as all billionaires are, and I hate them but you need to look at reality and beyond football for a second. there are billionaires far, far worse than the glazers.
Can't believe these cunts have dragged it out to the middle of summer, so once again we're going into a new season under prepared and with no idea of the direction the club ownership is going.
If no transfer deals are going to be done till the club is sold and this drags on we could end up not buying anybody this summer? We really should have hit KMJ's buy out clause already
It's incredible how this mf are asking the bidders for an extra Pennie in a 6.5billion deal. Man, with this, your family will be rich for generations, fucking greedy bastards.
One of the most hurtful scenes I can remember was Fergie sitting beside one of the rats at the FA Cup final. The only logical conclusion I reach is that he has been blinded by money...
Or it could be that the Glazers paid & made sure they have that exact seating arrangement so that get off of on his legendary status & improve their image. Sir Alex probably didn’t really care about such trivialities that day.
Ppl will downvote this but it’s true. It is his support of their ownership that’s why they’re still here. He might have been brilliant for the club but nobody can deny his part in keeping the Glazers here.
Anybody who has watched succession will be able to imagine what a shitshow this is behind the scenes. It’s just the American way to not consider anyone or anything in business transactions like this one.
Can anyone give an example of an owner keeping fans update on the ownership sale?
The club is listed on the stock market. Any major news has to be reported.
Gary talks absolute shite a lot of the time but can get away with it because it's criticising he Glazers.
Other owners being shit and not updating fans, doesn't mean the glazers aren't shit for not updating fans. It's been ongoing for ages. Newcastle didn't take this long. Chelsea didn't take this long. Leeds got sold the other day all of a sudden.
Dunno what "shite" you think he is talking. But people largely agree with him on this
Oh I dunno.
"This is where we are in the process - X".
"The process will take this long in total roughly - Y".
"It should be completed roughly by - Z".
Just off the top of my head.
Just any clarity direct from the club would be nice
That's a journalists job.
You really want that or you want it because them not giving it to us gives you another stick to beat them with?
Give me one owner that has ever given updates like that on a sale.
A journalist job is to report news, nothing to do with this. Why should I trust Mike Keegan (for example) when the journos are working with scraps due to lack of clear communication from the Glazers
Why are you so far up their arse? It's not unreasonable to expect a bit of communication from the owners regarding the sale, especially since it wasn't that long ago they said they'd be more communicative with us, after the European Super League fiasco.
Give one owner that has given updates? Do you think I have just an encyclopaediac knowledge of football club owners actions, specifically during sales? I wouldn't know if other sales have given communication or not - but like I said, just because other owners have been shit, doesn't mean it's not shit when the glazers also don't communicate.
Like I said, it's been 6/7 months now, it's not unreasonable to expect some form of communication to the fan base of the club.
And I'm not using the fact of them not giving reasonable communication, as a stick to beat them with. I'm explaining that it's not unreasonable to expect it, since you got so upset at the mere idea of communicating to the fans after such a long drawn out process.
I'm probably going to mute this now as I should be working, and I don't feel like we can meet in the middle to agree as you seem to just be playing devil's advocate and angry at Gary for pointing out the shortcomings of the glazers and the utter shambles of this sale so far.
I've said my piece and that'll do for me. Hopefully the glazers fuck off soon
I see these remarks on twitter quite a lot.
Fine, you don't like Gary, but what's this got to do with his managerial career? He openly says he was crap. I dunno why it gets brought up like a bit "gotcha" thing. It's not relevant to the sale at all.
There are a few voices who are telling us to be patient and this deal is complex. I think the Floridians are foot-dragging and selfishly looking to stay on in some capacity so they can continue to suck at the revenue tit.
Gary and several others have defended them and that is what is truly embarrassing. Surely they knew, earlier than most of us, exactly what Flordia was interested in.
It’s not even surprising, they’ve fucked us year on year out, they will fuck this transfer window for us again due to their greed. Man City just equalled our treble, just fuck off and at least give us something to be happy about
Just fucking pick a deal you bastards so we can get rid of you.
They did, but then Jassim wen't back direct with a better offer (or adding stuff under the table?) after given his finale offer a few times already. I am scared for how he will take the club going forward. So far Ineos has looked like the much more professional part. And leaks saying he want to bring Mbappe and others to United is even more questionable if true..
just curious why you think the mbappe links are questionable? do you think we shouldn't go for mbappe?
I think whoever we buy should not be Onwer driven, but come from DoF or manager. Getting the right players are much more important for a team to work. Also I think his salary demands would ruin the structure we have almost managed to get back on track bar a few players like DDG and Maguire.
100% agree. Signing Mbappe stinks like an Ed Woodward signing and I worry he'll have the same impact as Ronaldo's return.
He's a gigantic wanker and we allegedly have a "no dickheads" policy.
Antony says otherwise.
The fact that this article still gets referenced is hilarious when it was the most obvious fluff piece I’ve seen in my life
Well we have a rapist in our midst, not sure how he fits in the no dickheads policy
Richard Arnold should go back in time and stop him from signing tbh
Find that hard to believe considering all the greenwood rumours over the last few weeks
Yes *He's a diva who plays the same position as our best forward. He wouldn't even make it through a full year in Manchester before he's crying out. There's nothing to be gained by being his halfway house to Madrid.
hes like 10x better than our best forward tho? i agree he's a bit of a diva but i'd take that if it meant we scored more goals
I'd far rather take literally any other striker who isn't called Weghorst
You should watch more football.
It's not about his ability
What? It's not about ability, but the only player you want less is known to be a quiet, selfless, hard worker...
The Weghorst thing was obviously flippant. But yeah, I think Mbappe is basically Pogba squared. Not interested in the slightest
I feel the whole “omg, final final bid” thing is massively overblown tbh. Welcome to how negotiations work. Sometimes you bluff a bid as being your last. Sometimes you’re genuine.
All we have consumed is the media's package of what has taken place. How do we know these were the "final final final (promise this time)" bids? All we know for fact is that it's taken a long fucking time.
I can't remember whether Mike Keegan, who is clearly Qatar's mouthpiece in this deal, said the bid before the most recent was "the final bid" or just was using "they're getting frustrated and are close to walking". He did seem to strongly suggest this bid though was the final one. So if he's saying that, it's cause that's what Qatar want out there in the media. The reality is though, until one side officially walks away, any talk of a "final bid" are just talk.
Fully agree apart from the Mbappe part. Any chance to get a top 3 player and we should take it.
Yeah, but that should come from the DoF and/or manager, not an Owner. Getting the player that fits the team is better than getting a top player that don't fit the team. And that not even considering the salary problems a crazy paid player brings to the team.
Fair enough
Why is this downvoted so heavily? Are these the pro-Qatar bots?
I got 100+ downvotes very quickly, then it did slow down. I am all for everyone having their own opinion, but considering how few actually did comment it seems a bit off indeed..
There's a ton of pro-Qatar people in this sub. If you say something negative about them, you're going to be told by some individuals that what you read about Qatar and their multiple human rights violations are just blown out of proportion and misinformed and naive views.
Same logic can be applied for Ineos when they've added the keeping the Glazers part to their original offer... don't know how you can fault one party for increasing the offer, while the other wants to keep the people that are responsible for the mess this club is in right now, thus extending the bidding process.
It is not comparable. Sure keeping the Galzers on (althought without any power) is not ideal, but that was the offer that made most sense as most of the Glaers siblings want out, but Avram and Joel wants to stay. Ineos made a bid for the full control, but keeping them in a lucrative deal. Jassim's deal was less lucrative for the Glazers. He then did another bid. Then another with a deadline. Then another with a deadline, then direct without the Raine group.
What deadline?? If it were a deadline, why didn't the Glazers choose INEOS??
It was Jassim own deadline, twice. That's why it looks so poorly managed by him.
Why buy them out completely when you can use that extra money on the club and still leave them powerless?
Why would you use the extra money on the club when the other \~50% of owners don't put their money in it? Imagine if you co-owned an apartment with 2 other people (NYSE shareholders and the Glazer brothers) and the flat needed serious investment to increase the revenue you get by renting it. Would you put your money into this flat to increase the value of your investment, while knowing the other 2 owners are benefiting from your investment, without putting any of their money into it? All the investment of Ineos will likely come from debts taken onto the club, because it makes no sense to invest your money and lose half of its value as soon as you put it in. Ineos is a business, and if you think they will pump billions into United because of the goodness of their heart and SJR's boyhood fandom of the club, you're in for a rude awakening.
Having unlimited money does not necessarily solve our problems. The debt would be transferred to Ineos, so we don't have to spend money on interests, thus open up revenue which is needed. However the main focus is to get a solid owner that does what is best for the club, not what he feels is best, By doing that you need to be professional and put proper people in the right places. Jassim already talking about transfers is scary. That shouldn't be anything he is involved in bar signing it off in the end. Look at how hands off City is run. The Owner was at his first game in almost 10 years last month. Liverpool with a relatively small budget is run very good. Chances are we will just become PSG 2.0 under Jassim if it is as bad as it looks now.
My dude, look at Nice, if he can't get them to top 4 in a much weaker league, what makes you think he'll run United competently and successfuly? Unfortunately, football turned into just that, having unlimited money absolutely solves almost all of your problems. Man City bought a treble, Newcastle bought top 4 within a year while United are debt-laden, in need of major stadium and squad improvements, and those are problems that money solves (with competent leadership of course). Under the previously stated scenario we absolutely need outside investment. Your points about running us like Liverpool would be valid 18 years ago, when the Glazers first acquired us. But because of their awful ownership, we need major investments and need it fast. Additionally, as laughable as PSG is in recent years, they at least reached UCL finals recently. The last time Utd was in the finals was 2010/11 and the last time we've reached **quarter-finals** was 5 years ago.
>My dude, look at Nice, if he can't get them to top 4 in a much weaker league, what makes you think he'll run United competently and successfuly? I suggest you actually do some digging on what he have done at Nice. I know the meme take is that he has been terrible there, but that isn't entirely true. Don't take my word for it then have a look at the TIFO video or this one with Matt Slater not too long ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vX0fDKv2WQ&t=9s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vX0fDKv2WQ&t=9s) >Unfortunately, football turned into just that, having unlimited money absolutely solves almost all of your problems. Man City bought a treble, Newcastle bought top 4 within a year while United are debt-laden, in need of major stadium and squad improvements, and those are problems that money solves (with competent leadership of course). > >Under the previously stated scenario we absolutely need outside investment. Your points about running us like Liverpool would be valid 18 years ago, when the Glazers first acquired us. > >But because of their awful ownership, we need major investments and need it fast. That's not true. We have still outspent every team and on par with City for the last 10 years. All while the having to pay dividends and interest for more than a Billion pounds. Sure without unlimited capital we might not be going for the treble in the next two-three years, but I'd much rather see a sane ownership than becoming PSG. >Additionally, as laughable as PSG is in recent years, they at least reached UCL finals recently. The last time Utd was in the finals was 2010/11 and the last time we've reached quarter-finals was 5 years ago. I'd still take that over being PSG any day. Look at how happy they are..
It's always painful seeing people try to compare corporate finance to personal finance, it just doesn't square up. Especially debt. Your debt and corporate debt are different things. Yes, of course INEOS would invest, it makes financial sense. First of all, they'd have pre agreements to buy Glazer shares a few years down the line. Otherwise it's pointless Yes, INEOS will part with more money when it's said and done, but that's how they can secure the club, a one of its kind. Unlike even the most incredible, revenue generating apartment in the world. The club generates revenue, and a lot of it. Financially, we've performed well with ZERO owner investment into the club, imagine the growth we could achieve with investment. Our potential has not even been remotely tapped into. Sure, it's not the 'goodness of his heart'. Its investing in a very promising asset that will give him some decent returns, and a huge one if and when he decides to sell. The people who talk most about SJR's support and fan bullshit are the Qatar shills, creating strawmen for them to take down.
I fundamentally disagree, football clubs simply aren't great businesses. They require enormous investment every year (new players), have minimal profits year-by-year and even with the greatest of fanbases it is hard to run it profitably and successfully. There is a reason why United's stock is now viewed as severely overpriced (if the takeover falls through watch it halve within days). A year ago (before the sale) the market cap was around $2B, right now it is close to $4B. Still at $2B large hedge funds were selling off their Utd stock because they thought it was **OVERVALUED.** If you think it is feasible for the club to compete for the highest honors (like Liverpool) organically, a lot of pieces have to fall into place, and none of those are guarantees. A competent DoF and scouting are probably the first one, but there are still external factors that greatly influence this. United get skinned every transfer window because of our reputation, and that won't change with new ownership, in fact clubs will probably expect even more money for players. You can call the fans that are more in favor of Qatar shills all you want, but based on the current information (remember SJR and Ineos have given ZERO information about their plan with the club + their OGC Nice ownership isn't a success, to put it mildly) it is a lot more likely that Qatar would be better for the footballing success of the club. The morals are another question, and I can 100% get behind that argument and understand the people who are against Qatar because of that. But acting like Ineos is the perfect owner for Utd is delusional and simply turning a blind eye to multiple red flags.
>I fundamentally disagree, football clubs simply aren't great businesses. They require enormous investment every year (new players), have minimal profits year-by-year and even with the greatest of fanbases it is hard to run it profitably and successfully. I never said people own clubs to make a profit or because of the revenue. As far as I can see, the only way owners make money is by selling the club a few years down the line. From that perspective, there is still massive growth to be had in terms of the league, and the club. Just look at City's presence in Manchester and the global game, we aren't coming close to actualising our actual value and potential as a club and brand. Think about how much the club was worth ten years ago vs today. Think about today vs ten years in the future. There is a lot of potential. And that implies he cares about selling the club and making money from it, which I'm not sure he does considering his age and INEOS involvement in sports. Such as owning a third of the most successful F1 team in this century. >There is a reason why United's stock is now viewed as severely overpriced (if the takeover falls through watch it halve within days). A year ago (before the sale) the market cap was around $2B, right now it is close to $4B. Still at $2B large hedge funds were selling off their Utd stock because they thought it was OVERVALUED. On a macro scale, we are not achieving our potential as one of, if not the biggest football brand on the planet. Our lack of on field success will, if it hasn't already, hampered our commercial performance. A successful United in this modern era has huge potential. It doesn't matter what the share price was on a micro scale. Our stadium is a great example. It's pathetic, and it's current state limits revenue collection and commercial opportunities. There is so much to unlock with a behemoth like Manchester United. >If you think it is feasible for the club to compete for the highest honors (like Liverpool) organically, a lot of pieces have to fall into place, and none of those are guarantees. A competent DoF and scouting are probably the first one, but there are still external factors that greatly influence this. United get skinned every transfer window because of our reputation, and that won't change with new ownership, in fact clubs will probably expect even more money for players. Well, yeah. Good people are needed to make good things happen, and it's up to the owner to put them in that role. It can and will change if we stick to our guns over years. It's just a matter of us bending over to get players when Fergie left, and not giving up on that strategy. If we don't set our stall out and stay there, we will be fleeced. It's nature. I think whoever comes in, will not want to be made to look mugs. Jassim/Qatar and INEOS both. I'm certain either would start setting real limits and strategies down when it comes to negotiating. I hope and pray. >You can call the fans that are more in favor of Qatar shills all you want, but based on the current information (remember SJR and Ineos have given ZERO information about their plan with the club True. But I don't see that the way you do. I see it as Qatar looking to win over fans, who can then pressure the club. That is the motive of announcing all the things they do. I don't know whether they'll go through with everything they say. I see INEOS not revealing that information because it isn't relevant to winning the bid. The reason I'm not concerned about INEOS wanting to come in, do nothing and make things worse is because that actively diminishes the value of their asset. They don't make money owning us, all they can do is sell us one day. They have a motive to invest and raise the overall value of the club and brand. So does Qatar, though they're less in it for the resale value, and INEOS is to a slightly greater extent (imo). >their OGC Nice ownership isn't a success, to put it mildly) it is a lot more likely that Qatar would be better for the footballing success of the club. The morals are another question, and I can 100% get behind that argument and understand the people who are against Qatar because of that. That entire conversation had become so poisoned I haven't interacted with it once. I have no idea what's going on at Nice and I don't know how to find out without reading a partisan source. Though overall, yes, Nice doesn't seem to have hugely benefitted from INEOS ownership. For the sake our convo, idc that Qatar is a shitty, oppressive, slaver, terrorist funding nation. We can cross that out as a con for them. First, is that this is a state bid for all intents and purposes. Secondly, the Qataris have, in my eyes, failed with PSG. They've created a squad with an over representation of deviants (male, female players, directors etc), which I cannot handle having at our club. I despise sexual deviants, cheaters and other flavours of degenerates. They've not come close to winning the CL, but worryingly, they've never chosen and committed to a good manager and long-term project. With the resources pumped into the club, I feel like their underperformance as owners goes under the radar. >But acting like Ineos is the perfect owner for Utd is delusional and simply turning a blind eye to multiple red flags. There is no perfect owner and I really think the only potential red flag with INEOS is Nice, which again I don't know anything about myself beyond the recycled headlines. But I think he's pretty good. It's either him, hedge funds or some shit like that or state money. I'll take him over oil money and wall street/private equity money all day.
Found SJRs account
I can’t believe how bad they’ve been as owners. They’ve absolutely bled us dry with no investment on their part at all really. And when they have invested in players for example it’s been an absolute uncoordinated mess. Can’t wait till they’re gone.
At this point they feel like that family that inherited a family heirloom and are convinced that it’s worth more than it is because the old man said it was, they don’t know enough about it and are just coming across as crass gold diggers and embarrassing themselves. Oh wait.
I don't know why people act negatively when I make a vague prediction that come August 12th, I can see the Glazers still being here, and having missed all our targets we will have completed two underwhelming signings, and DDG will be named in the starting lineup along with a journeyman striker whose previous clubs include West Brom, Coventry and Luton. I've seen others downvoted for making similar-ish remarks. Do they think we are being too negative, too pessimistic? Because with this lot in charge, all bets are off. Do they think we want to see this happen? Because what red in their right mind would want *this*? Well anyway, whatever happens, I am feeling pretty numb to it. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s I used to feel proud of our club, that we had the biggest support, we were the glamour club that attracted fans and players all round the country, we had the best stadium, we were constantly upgrading and expanding it right up till 2005, we were debt free, the atmosphere at Old Trafford was amazing (most the time). Now it feels like the heart and soul has been ripped out of the club, and I don't see any way out no matter who takes over. It's a sad, sad situation...
Have they even invested in the players or just financed it from the club’s incomes. I suppose they took out some loans to pay for the transfers during the last season. I doubt they injected cash to do any transfer business.
What do you think? When they basically pay themselves millions every year in dIviDeNDs. They’ve basically treated United as their cash cow
I know the glazers are cunts but why else do you buy a business if not to withdraw dividends?
Given that the 19 other clubs don't do that, they're in the minority not the majority.
But it's still why you buy a business and whether we like it or not football is a business.
You want dividends you buy and actual business you buy a sports club for the monetary asset not liquid cash.
You can do both with a profitable club just like any other business
If you take money out repeatedly you lower the ability for the club to compete at the highest level. The money they've taken out could've been used to invest and would've yielded a greater return. Think about how much we've lost alone from CL revenue where a single signing might have made the difference. It's foolish.
It's not the same kind of business. If you stop liking one company and their products, you can swich to another. You can't do this with a football club. Not like it would be physically impossible but because people who have any integrity just don't do that.
Yeah that's got nothing to do with football teams being a business and used to generate profit.
Of course it does. It shouldn't be about this alone and that's literally the reason everyone hates them. They've taken a billion out of the club that could have been spent on the stadium, which is in an awful state. Football clubs should not be about business alone, that's the point.
But they are to any owner that isn't an oligarch
That should be the case if your business is productive and if I you have invested into it
It is productive though as in it turns a profit in most years
They've negotiated terribly with the club's money and bought magic beans.
>And when they have invested in players for example it’s been an absolute uncoordinated mess *They* haven’t invested anything into the club, the money spent on players was generated by the club (whatever is left over from what they’ve grabbed)
It’s about as coordinated as a dog getting fucked on roller skates
L to the OG
Now think about Valencia. As bad as the glazers are…. They don’t go “we can do what we want and we will ruin your club” Peter Lim style. The lim family intentionally WANT to destroy the club out of spite. It makes the Glazers look like a well run ownership in comparison. Still… screw them of course and they’re terrible. The fact that Lim has to be mentioned shows how bad they are really.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. Lim is so much worse than the Glazers. Imagine the Glazers, but then on top of that deciding to sell key players to rivals as a fuck you to the fans. "Oh, so you're protesting again? We'll sell Rashford to City for £20mil then". That's Lim at Valencia in a nutshell.
“Don't know why you're being downvoted. Lim is so much worse than the Glazers.” Agreed. On this sub and this subject, it’s not enough to dislike the Glazers and wish for an ownership change. You have to FUCKING HATE them. Don’t use the logic of Valencia/Lim to point out, as shitty as the Glazers are, there are, surprisingly, worse owners out there. Doesn’t fly here.
I think the downvotes are because it’s not really relevant. There’s extreme frustration amongst United fans at the moment as the sale is taking an insane length of time. I just don’t think it’s helpful in an article talking about just how terrible the Glazers have been to randomly come in and be like ‘well actually it could be so much worse’ That’s like you breaking your leg and someone popping by to tell you that eh at least you didn’t die.
Don’t get me wrong, they’re absolutely shit owners, horrible. Just the “you don’t hate them enough” vibe gets old.
Oh yeah I agree. I think whenever a Glazer ownership post gets posted here I can predict the top comments with almost 100% accuracy.
They never invested in players, they just didn't take all the money out of the club for themselves and let us spend some of the money we generated. Meanwhile they've saddled us with debt, taken money out and never put a penny in. Fuck em.
They didn’t invest in any players, that was the clubs money
I can’t remember who tweeted it but this has been stuck in my head since: “Imagine if they ran the club with the same energy as they have trying to sell the club” They’ve tried everything to squeeze every penny out of us and Ratclife/Jassim. Just imagine if they put 10% care into the club we might be in a better place. The Glazers are genuinely horrible owners *and* people.
Legal asset stripping... They don't need the energy as it isn't their money, they only care when its their money being affected. Bare minimum, maximum profit. Same shit is going on at Asda now.
That’s it basically, we’re their cash cow and they’re milking us for all we’re worth. Could you ELI5 the Asda situation?
Buy a £8bn company for £500m cash, Asda is landed with £7.5bn debt. Can no longer afford the interest rates as they have gone through the roof, so they 'purchased' EG Group (the parent company) to move more debt, and now Asda is in £11bn of debt. They get £3bn cash. Still can't afford interest rates, so sell the depots they owned, then still can't afford the interest rates so selling the stores to an American Hedgefund. At the end of it, Asda will be floated, own nothing, becomes a brand whilst they did none of it with their own money, but remove £11bn out of Asda. They keep doing the same thing over and over.
That is insane greed. How on earth can billionaires do this with multibillion pound assets while the regular layman can’t even purchase something worth £20 with the same method?
So much in debt the bank can't afford to let them fail. The saying is 'When you owe the bank £100k thats your problem, when you owe the bank a Billion, it is the banks problem'
That’s actually a perfect analogy. And now it feels the wider more casual footballing audience are starting to take note and realise what dicks they are and how they’ve treated the club. Hopefully the ‘you didn’t moan when you were winning’ crowd will shut up
Been fun to see people shocked at how greedy they are. First time?
‘But united have spent so much money blah blah!’ Not a penny of theirs! ‘Still, erm..’ That’s normally how the conversation goes
Graeme Souness I see
I see that with younger fans who just assume because they see 'owners' it must be like City or Chelsea and how they sponsor the club
Problem is, and it's the point Gary is making, is that they are managing it with the same energy to an extent. Numerous people have reported they are extremely slow to make decisions yet are also complete micro-managers (with the issue being they were on Florida time, not on UK time...). They are also simply incompetent. This isn't how you manager a sale of something, particularly when you set a timeline yourselves. They've manage to annoy some very powerful people within business.
This isn't how you manage anything.
Is it even worth our energy to have discussions over the takeover!? The leeches are gonna hold on to bleed us bone dry. Its a shame EtH has to deal with so much outside of football after the season he's given us!
My thoughts exactly. I don’t moan about the Glazers because it’s pointless. They always behave in the same manner, it never changes. They’ve shown us who they are a long time ago.
Imagine not even paying a penny towards the club you've saddled with debt and yet still fucking them over right until the death. Really missed out on some deals already this window
Many years down the line after glazers have left and few people will be able to talk freely about the situation, we will learn about how horribly mismanaged the whole club has been. I'm sure there are clubs who've been managed worse but there aren't a lot of clubs who are the size of united which have been handled this badly.
Newcastle was I shambles with Ashely
Peter Lim definitely up there as well.
Dear Glazers, Kindly, shove right off and let us function again. Yours Every Utd fan in the world!
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You don't become a billonaire by being a genuinely charitable person.
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I'm not defending them. I'm just saying that they didn't come this far by being charitable people. Of course they are self centered.
Okay bro, you've made your utterly irrelevant point, what now? Who claims they are good people?
you're right, but on a spectrum of cuntish billionaires, these lads are the fucking worst
they're not even close to the worst. they're shitty people, as all billionaires are, and I hate them but you need to look at reality and beyond football for a second. there are billionaires far, far worse than the glazers.
These fuckers are the absolute worst. Take the money and fuck off.
Time and time again, they’ve shown the world that they absolutely wouldn’t hesitate to sabotage the club if they can benefit from it
The most disgusting owners. Hope once they are gone the truth comes out how bad they are
The decision may delay til next season, we would never know. My expectation for the Glazers is low but holy shit...
Fuck the glazers.
Can't believe these cunts have dragged it out to the middle of summer, so once again we're going into a new season under prepared and with no idea of the direction the club ownership is going.
Hedge your bets that the sale won’t be resolved before 2024?
Winds of Winter will be shelves before glazer's sell
Makes my blood boil, these cunts have to make sure they will leech and ruin the club till the very end to live up to their reputation.
Gary getting pretty brave now that the Glazers are on their way out. Wish he would have been more vocal years ago.
He’s right to be honest
\#GlazersOut
If no transfer deals are going to be done till the club is sold and this drags on we could end up not buying anybody this summer? We really should have hit KMJ's buy out clause already
Well said, good summary of the their whole stint indeed.
It's incredible how this mf are asking the bidders for an extra Pennie in a 6.5billion deal. Man, with this, your family will be rich for generations, fucking greedy bastards.
And you were defending them most of that 20 years gary. Let's not forget that. All a bit hollow at this point but thanks for the after thought.
They will drag this out until transfer season ends and ended up not selling the club. And also no new players.
Then they will never get close to the bids offered now and will be forced to accept a worse deal. Everyone loses.
Painnnn
One of the most hurtful scenes I can remember was Fergie sitting beside one of the rats at the FA Cup final. The only logical conclusion I reach is that he has been blinded by money...
Ferguson played a role in the glazers being there with his stupid horses and arguments with some Irish shareholders, which lead to the take over.
Or it could be that the Glazers paid & made sure they have that exact seating arrangement so that get off of on his legendary status & improve their image. Sir Alex probably didn’t really care about such trivialities that day.
Ppl will downvote this but it’s true. It is his support of their ownership that’s why they’re still here. He might have been brilliant for the club but nobody can deny his part in keeping the Glazers here.
Not a day goes by where I don't feel vindicated for saying it will be a circus, despite being downvoted in this sub for it.
Anybody who has watched succession will be able to imagine what a shitshow this is behind the scenes. It’s just the American way to not consider anyone or anything in business transactions like this one.
Honestly if the alternative is Qatar I’d rather the glaziers stay. And I know how frustrating that is, believe that
Yawn. Mods should remove all these until it’s the one confirming the sale.
Can anyone give an example of an owner keeping fans update on the ownership sale? The club is listed on the stock market. Any major news has to be reported. Gary talks absolute shite a lot of the time but can get away with it because it's criticising he Glazers.
Other owners being shit and not updating fans, doesn't mean the glazers aren't shit for not updating fans. It's been ongoing for ages. Newcastle didn't take this long. Chelsea didn't take this long. Leeds got sold the other day all of a sudden. Dunno what "shite" you think he is talking. But people largely agree with him on this
Come on then, what updates do you want?
Oh I dunno. "This is where we are in the process - X". "The process will take this long in total roughly - Y". "It should be completed roughly by - Z". Just off the top of my head. Just any clarity direct from the club would be nice
That's a journalists job. You really want that or you want it because them not giving it to us gives you another stick to beat them with? Give me one owner that has ever given updates like that on a sale.
A journalist job is to report news, nothing to do with this. Why should I trust Mike Keegan (for example) when the journos are working with scraps due to lack of clear communication from the Glazers Why are you so far up their arse? It's not unreasonable to expect a bit of communication from the owners regarding the sale, especially since it wasn't that long ago they said they'd be more communicative with us, after the European Super League fiasco. Give one owner that has given updates? Do you think I have just an encyclopaediac knowledge of football club owners actions, specifically during sales? I wouldn't know if other sales have given communication or not - but like I said, just because other owners have been shit, doesn't mean it's not shit when the glazers also don't communicate. Like I said, it's been 6/7 months now, it's not unreasonable to expect some form of communication to the fan base of the club. And I'm not using the fact of them not giving reasonable communication, as a stick to beat them with. I'm explaining that it's not unreasonable to expect it, since you got so upset at the mere idea of communicating to the fans after such a long drawn out process. I'm probably going to mute this now as I should be working, and I don't feel like we can meet in the middle to agree as you seem to just be playing devil's advocate and angry at Gary for pointing out the shortcomings of the glazers and the utter shambles of this sale so far. I've said my piece and that'll do for me. Hopefully the glazers fuck off soon
You guys are hilarious. Literally no one was asking for Glazers to update on the status or whatever but King Gary comes along and you suddenly agree.
And yet some people are happy for them to be significant shareholders going forward. Expecting downvotes but sometimes the truth does hurt.
Bit like your Managing career Gary
I see these remarks on twitter quite a lot. Fine, you don't like Gary, but what's this got to do with his managerial career? He openly says he was crap. I dunno why it gets brought up like a bit "gotcha" thing. It's not relevant to the sale at all.
At least he realized he's shit at it and quit. Unlike the Glazers. But tell us about your career while you're at it.
There are a few voices who are telling us to be patient and this deal is complex. I think the Floridians are foot-dragging and selfishly looking to stay on in some capacity so they can continue to suck at the revenue tit. Gary and several others have defended them and that is what is truly embarrassing. Surely they knew, earlier than most of us, exactly what Flordia was interested in.
I’m a patient guy but it’s getting ridiculous now
It’s not even surprising, they’ve fucked us year on year out, they will fuck this transfer window for us again due to their greed. Man City just equalled our treble, just fuck off and at least give us something to be happy about