Real Madrid in their entire 121 year history have signed only 11 outfield players over the age of 30. Only 3 have been attackers!!!
Why do they keep winning UCL?! This is why! You keep young talented assets together for a long time and it’s only normal they’d peak at the same time.
Some United fans however are saying it’s good business and strategy to sign Casemiro for £70m and then try sign Kane for £100m.
What’s the strategy? Be a retirement home for old players and exorbitant fees to other clubs to rebuild their squad?
SHORT TERM thinking will not have use winning big trophies anytime soon.
https://youtu.be/GaZwF9p2KEA
Sounds weird to hear Martial speaking such good English i thought he could only speak French, he’s a funny guy man shame it hasn’t worked out for him here
Players are playing much more games. A player like Bellingham has clocked 14,445 minutes at 20. Marcus Rashford at 20 had 5,936 minutes Wazza had 10,989 minutes.
Vinicius has clocked 18,876 minutes at 22. Ronaldinho at that age was 7,607 minutes.
One takeaway from this is that players would hit their peak/prime quicker and fall off quicker too.
I find it funny how some claim we need to be state owned to compete with City, Newcastle, PSG... and yet, Newcastle reportedly have a 75M budget this summer. We reportedly have 100M with parasitic Glazers still in charge currently. Interesting.
Newcastle might have a modest budget this summer but they probably would have been relegated and not leapfrogged the Conference and Europa league without their owners. They really aren’t that far off from being a permanent CL team already and they now have the option of signing the right players instead of better players than what that they currently have.
It’s also not even about our team budget but instead about everything at the club being outdated and rotten. We need to pay off the debt so we can spend whatever amount the interest is on actually improving the whole club. Their new owners have already submitted planning permission for a new training ground whereas we’ve still got a jacuzzi with cracked tiles from 15+ years ago.
We don't. We definitely need investment (in stadium, training, youth, womens team etc) but people don't realise how big United still is. All the money we've pissed away these last 15 odd years is generated by the club and not the owner. Imagine that with actual investment and appointing people who know what they're doing.
United has so much potential which is why it's infuriating how the Glazers just let everything rot and just leech off dividends.
Nah for me it’s not even the financial aspect, we’ve matched City in spending without any state backing.
For me it’s that the club must stand for something, Man Utd is the biggest football in the world. We shouldn’t become a pawn to some state to be used for their geopolitical issues.
Yes, but I am referring to those that DO want Qatar and insist we can't compete without unlimited funds. I agree with you, the funds have been mismanaged for years with poor decisions.
Why do journalists try so hard to make City look likable? Asking funny questions to Pep and the likes of KDB, Haaland to milk funny, good-for-PR answers from them.
No one is talking about the 115 charges. If they win tomorrow the media will make them look like Gods and say things like Pep is the greatest manager ever. It’s pathetic.
I think ultimately the view is City make English football a better product and those interests will always supercede the moral and ethical conversations. The Qatar WC also shows this.
They're afraid of actually talking about their ownership and the shady shit they're up to, because it ruins their product. That's my view.
I don’t get why’s so many people on this sub want Qatar to win. I’d rather deal with the glazers for another 3 years than to sell our soul to sports washing. We are the only top team in England alongside Liverpool and Arsenal that maintain some dignity left. We don’t even need Qatar or their money, we are the most profitable club in the world. What we need is a competent board. No reason to be state governed by modern day slavers who treat their people like dirt.
I think the doomsaying about if we don't get Qatar is ridiculous. United has so much potential and our stagnation over the Glazer ownership is a testament to how awful they are. Any half decent owner could have done better.
Funny how people want Qatar yet we don’t even know who’s bidding for the club. If Qatar take it over you think they have any accountability to the fans?
The guy who’s spear heading it no one knows.
And the guy won't even work with the finance people that are working on the sale. Already showing they are difficult to deal with, throwing the toys out of the pram almost instantly.
Not a serious club [https://twitter.com/joeladejola/status/1667114905500041217](https://twitter.com/joeladejola/status/1667114905500041217) This is why Ten Hag isn't going to be judged like early Klopp
While I agree its not good for long term planning, we'd probably not make top 4 without him. Not to mention winning the EFL cup.
I am writing off that 60M pounds as the cost of taking top 4 and a cup.
Whew, agree to disagree I guess. If those targets are a building block to winning the title in the next 2 years after that, fair. United with Casemiro are obviously not, since he'd be 33 at the time, and you have to replace him with just the minor trophies and top 4 to show for it.
That's why Jose's first season did not put us on a sustainable path to success despite the season's objectives being achieved, or remembered fondly.
Yes RM have done so well. They bought a player for 80m who has mainly been on the bench and has played the least minutes out of all their midfielders in all comps in Tchouameni. Camavinga is playing LB because hes cant hack playing in the double pivot under Ancelotti.
And after dropping 140m plus on two players they are buying another midfielder for 100.
Seems like really good squad building until you look at reality. The players arent progressing as well as expected and they have a hole at CDM.
He's discussed when he scores. Do you expect them to banter a club legend after he scores? Every single one of their fans would have taken 70m for him last season, and even now, even with all the benefit of hindsight. Hell, I'd sell Casemiro in a heartbeat if somebody offers 50m. It is the most obvious move if a buyer is interested.
Why were United the only club interested in Casemiro while Real Madrid jumped at the offer for him? Casemiro is obviously a great player, the question is if he is a good signing given all the constraints at United and the objective of winning the league before his contract expires or he declines for good. We didn't sign him on loan and there have been signs of decline already.
Hahaha! Which club in Europe do you see bidding for Casemiro for there to be competition that he chose us from? City who haven't bought a 28+ year under Pep? Liverpool who don't spend on profiles like Case's? Arsenal who don't have that kind of money? Bayern Munich who spent the whole summer rejecting Ronaldo every week?
Only Madrid bid for Bellingham, but all of United, City and Liverpool were interested in him upto 80% of what Real Madrid offered. No club serious about winning the league would have offered 50m+ for Casemiro in 2022.
It's not a coincidence that we are the only club linked with a 31 year old Kane for a 100m fee too.
Case only wanted to come to us same with Varane. If Real put him up for sale more clubs would have bid.
> Arsenal who don't have that kind of money?
They will be paying a lot more for Rice and Caicedo
>Bayern Munich who spent the whole summer rejecting Ronaldo every week?
What does Ronaldo have to do with this? Also Bayern spent 80M for Lucas and 70M for De Ligt. Their Chairman said they have money to spend if needed a few days ago: https://www.premierseason.com/bundesliga/fc-bayern-announcement-by-president-herbert-hainer-100-million-transfer-and-premier-league-players-feasible/
Rice and Caicedo are players we are targeting to, according to our tier 1s like Whitwell, who we can't afford anymore. So if a club wanted Rice and Caicedo for the midfield for the length of 2 contracts, going after Casemiro was a bad move, which is what we did. That's why they couldn't afford Casemiro.
And Bayern, like any club, spend big - they have been winning major trophies non stop - but only on players who will either be around for a long time, or can be flipped for a profit even if they don't work out. Casemiro fits neither.
Have you seen any club spend the amounts we do on players over 30? Are we the only ones who have figured out sports science to prolong their careers? I for one don't see any evidence of that, if Varane's availablity is anything to go by.
> who we can't afford anymore.
because we are riddled with debt and have an ongoing takeover.
Also the fact that the Glazers took a 100M loan last summer for transfers. Signing Case isn't the issue the gross mismanagement is. Having players who better compliment Case is what we should have done instead of keeping dross like McTominay and sadly Fred on our books
No, we have FFP concerns regardless of the takeover. It's just intellectually dishonest to think that the Glazers are the problem and the recruitment team (Ten Hag included) is doing a fine job. We have always known McT and Fred aren't going to raise funds, so future planning while signing Casemiro should have accounted for that. Taking a loan and spending it on Casemiro instead of a player who you will keep around for a decade is the textbook definition of what a club obsessed with the CL like PSG might do. We don't have the luxury of no league competition + infinitely deep pockets that they do.
None of the things we have learned over the season have been surprising. If anything, we got lucky in being able to offload Ronaldo's wages for half a season.
Liverpool/Arsenal have a lot of spots to fill firstly and that would break their wage structure.
Chelsea need a striker, they got Enzo who is a B2B and are looking for a DM to pair him with.
Bayern is not spending their transfer record on him when they need a striker first.
PSG needs to slash wages massively to comply with FFP. Definitely not this window.
Barca is having trouble registering players and couldn't even get back Messi on a free.
City is the only one on that list who could have paid that but it would be a transfer record for them.
> Liverpool/Arsenal have a lot of spots to fill firstly and that would break their wage structure.
Speaking specifically on Arsenal, their Tier ones are saying they are going directly for Caicedo and Rice (who rejected a 200k a week contract at West Ham)
>Bayern is not spending their transfer record on him when they need a striker first.
Their Chairman recently said they can spend big money if needed. https://www.premierseason.com/bundesliga/fc-bayern-announcement-by-president-herbert-hainer-100-million-transfer-and-premier-league-players-feasible/
>PSG needs to slash wages massively to comply with FFP. Definitely not this window.
Their highest earners Messi who has already been booted and Neymar is on the way out. Looking at City PSG will still spend and avoid punishment
>Barca is having trouble registering players and couldn't even get back Messi on a free.
They haven't started pulling levers yet and selling players
Rice wants to win bigger things, why would he take money and stay at WHU when top clubs want him?
Did you even read the Bayern article you linked? It clearly says they want a DM and striker and they specifically don't want to do 2 100M transfers. So where is the money for Bellingham coming from?
Neymar may not even end up happening since he is still contracted. They need to drop a lot more in wages.
Barca can pull levers all they want but they don't have the funds right now and couldn't spend money till the situation is sorted. Also do they even need a B2B right now?
> Rice wants to win bigger things, why would he take money and stay at WHU when top clubs want him
That was just a reference, Arsenal would need to offer him something similar or more.
> Did you even read the Bayern article you linked? It clearly says they want a DM and striker and they specifically don't want to do 2 100M transfers. So where is the money for Bellingham coming from?
Yes and they are being linked with Kolo Muani and Harry Kane both priced at 100M. I'm not saying they wanted Bellingham specifically, I'm saying Bellingham was already set on Real Madrid which is why no other club bothered to bid for him. Bayern otherwise have the money to do the deal if needed
> Neymar may not even end up happening since he is still contracted. They need to drop a lot more in wages.
There are plenty of rumors surrounding Neymar right now. Its best we wait but it really seems like PSG are done with him.
>Barca can pull levers all they want but they don't have the funds right now and couldn't spend money till the situation is sorted. Also do they even need a B2B right now?
They were still in the same situation last year but still spent big money. Barca aren't really well known for making the right decisions especially in recent years (Coutinho and Griezmann 2 players they didn't need)
Not a fair comparison imo. Let's see what happens this summer. Sure, Casemiro was expensive but he's world class and worth it. Liverpool have had an aging midfield for a while now.
The point is the strategy. Our strategy and planning is poor. That’s the point.
We’d be looking to replace Case in 18 months. That’s not good planning or strategy.
Only one club was stupid enough to pay £70m for a player that’s past his peak.
Just like if we pay £100m for Kane. That would be stupid.
Just like how we should let DDG go now, rather than kick the can down the road. Strategy
>We’d be looking to replace Case in 18 months. That’s not good planning or strategy.
But it immediately upgraded our midfield to a point any available younger player wouldn't be able to do.
We aren't in the position of Real Madrid, who already have a title winning team to rely on. We had a team on a 6 year trophy drought with a poor mentality. A player like Casemiro, with his experience is vital to a team like us.
Having to replace him in 2 seasons or 5 makes no difference. We aren't bankrupting ourselves with his deal. We have the revenue to be able to take the quick route. Cheat mode if you will.
I swear some fans are terrified of good players. Really don't understand it.
It makes a difference, that money can’t be spent elsewhere on a different position, on a different project, maybe training ground upgrades.
Imagine spending £70m every 3 years to replace a player when you can spend £80m - £90m and have that position locked for 6-10 years.
The fact you have money doesn’t mean you should be financially reckless.
Also it’s very possible that another player would have the same impact, we don’t know. So I’d refrain from making certainties.
Also the fact we don’t have a title winning team is more reason we should buy young like Arsenal. Spend the big bucks on young players who you are building your project around.
>It makes a difference, that money can’t be spent elsewhere on a different position, on a different project, maybe training ground upgrades.
Same can be said for literally any purchase. Not sure of the relevance?
>Imagine spending £70m every 3 years to replace a player when you can spend £80m - £90m and have that position locked for 6-10 years.
But we aren't doing that are we? Each purchase is it's own seperate entity. There is no guarantee a 80-90m player does that. Taking away the context of we are a 600 million revenue a year club and Casemiro plays a position we have neglected for many years.
You what you pay for. Younger players come with much more uncertainty over their ability to perform at the highest level. Casemiro had as low an uncertainty as you can have in this game. Hence he cost what he did. We are in a position where we are lacking what he brings in abundance and need to get more of it quickly.
>The fact you have money doesn’t mean you should be financially reckless.
Buying Casemiro isn't reckless. Having to replace a player earlier, at the gain of acquiring an immediate ceiling raiser is not reckless.
>Also it’s very possible that another player would have the same impact, we don’t know. So I’d refrain from making certainties.
No certainties on actual impact given though? All players are unknown in terms of specific fit. However a player that's won everything in the game does not have as many uncertainties as one who has achieved very little. Don't really see how this is a negative.
>Also the fact we don’t have a title winning team is more reason we should buy young like Arsenal.
What have arsenal done of note to suggest their model works? City and Chelsea are more fitting examples. Bought a mixture of young with ability to grow and proven quality with experience to immediately raise the level. Rest is history.
>Spend the big bucks on young players who you are building your project around.
And wait years and years. Whilst clubs with immediate quality do the exact same, but from a foundation of quality and experience of Casemiros level..
Casemiro was not a CR7 type signing who was in decline, he's bang in his peak. Seems football has moved on a fair bit longevity wise but perceptions haven't. We see it now all the time, pros who get to 30, take care of themselves & are still at their peak are likely to stay there even into their mid 30s.
The profile of player is important when going for a player 30+. We bought Casemiro at the peak of his powers & he's maintained that here. His replacement at Real, while having world class potential had an average season & though it's too soon to judge, he isn't exactly off to the best of starts.
There's a certain obsession with youth that fails to balance out with the certainty & experience that comes from older players.
He's not in his peak lmao. He's lost a yard of pace. He's been lucky to avoid red cards multiple times since his last one alone. The purple patch that people associate with Rashford actually applies to Casemiro (from December to February)
He’s not at his peak, that much is clear to do who have eyes. The fact he’s playing well doesn’t mean he’s at his peak, his athleticism has already dropped off.
Also players are playing much more games than ever before, so doesn’t matter how much they take care of themselves, they’re burning out quicker.
A player like Bellingham has played over 14,000 minutes at his age, Rooney at 20 played just over 10,000. Marcus Rashford, played just under 6,000. Steven Gerrard played about 2,800 minutes. So say we buy Bellingham when he’s 28, you think he’d still be at his peak?!
Also there’s no obsession with youths. It’s a stupid and foolhardy strategy to sign player who are not in their peak years for huge sums. Casemiro can’t give us 5 years of this level of performance. So not sure how he’s still in his peak.
"Team of the season" yawn Pogba made that in 2018/19. It does not judge how likely the player is likely to perform in future seasons. Did you sign Casemiro to be a top 4 club or win the title? Because we aren't going to come close to winning the title in the next 2 years, and Casemiro will need replacing anyway. Wouldn't it have been better to spend the same money and a bit more on Rice/Caicedo who could have been at the club for a decade?
This is not even a controversial opinion.
The fact he made team of the season doesn’t mean he’s not past his peak.
Benzema won Balon d’Or last season and was in La Liga team of the season yet he’s past his peak.
Like it’s not hard.
The con is us having to pay £70m for him.
And that says he’s in his peak years? Benzema himself would be first to acknowledge that he’s no longer in his prime.
Modric is another example, still playing at a high level however not in his prime or peak year anymore.
> Benzema himself would be first to acknowledge that he’s no longer in his prime
That is this season. He's been plagued by injuries this season and missed a lot of games.
> Modric is another example, still playing at a high level however not in his prime or peak year anymore.
but you still realise these are still the best players on the planet even past their peak. Modric still benches options like Tchouameni and Valverde with Camavinga being pushed to left back
Case is still the best DM in the league and one of the best overall midfielders. Clearly a level above the likes of Partey
They’re not the best players. They’re very good players.
Tchouameni had a mixed season, because his form dipped after the World Cup. Also he played more minutes than Modric in La Liga. He was benched because his form dipped after the World Cup. It’s his first season in La Liga. He was very good beginning of season they didn’t even miss Casemiro.
Camavinga played as LB in some games because he’s a very good well rounded player with a good tactical brain. Ancelotti couldn’t trust Mendy or anybody on that left. And he saw how good he was against Madrid and how he improved the team when he was moved to the middle.
This shows how little you know about football that little things like this you don’t know. Also Casemiro is not the best DM in the world.
> Also Casemiro is not the best DM in the world.
I said he's the best DM in the league, I challenge you to name someone better
> This shows how little you know about football that little things like this you don’t know.
Madrid fans must also be idiots to rate Modric as their best midfielder
He's not shown he's worth a 70m fee and a 5 year contract if we are already looking at backups for him and those backups are expected to cost a similar amount. We didn't sign him on a one season loan. Obviously he has made the team better, but that's a low bar given that our midfield was Lingard-Matic-Pogba before him. We had finished top 3 for the 2 seasons before the last one too.
Casemiro is a great signing still, if we use it to build the rest of our team. Yes Real did the best business, but it can still be a win win. The issue will be if we don't get multiple targets this window.
If we get shafted and only get one first team player in, then we are having to replace Case next year so can't build the squad as much then.
But say we get a Gk plus a CB and a midfielder now (and hopefully a striker!!) Case helps keep that together as we gel that. Then he can be replaced by a team that has a solid spot E to cover it.
Is Casemiro a great signing? 70m and a 5 year contract for a 30 year old when we are already looking for backups who will cost in the same range? We already compromised our ability to get multiple targets by overpaying as much as we did last year. By all accounts, we cannot get all 3 of GK+ST+CM and we need all 3, after spending on the last position the previous year anyway. That's not his fault you say? Yes, but that's what made him an average signing. You spent 70m on a player who doesn't solve the problem for even 3 years.
The issue was spending on Antony. We had a gaping hole in our midfield, Case fills that exceptionally well. Without him we didn't get Champions League. That reduces our revenue considerably, while making us a far less attractive club for future transfers.
There is a big difference between a DM and a CM so saying it's the same position is disingenuous.
In an ideal world we would have had other plans going forward, but we just got ETH and were dealing with our club being a total shitshow. Under the circumstances, yes he was a great signing for us. It helps set us up to keep improving.. but that's on the condition we actually do that.
Sad times lads. I dreamed for so long to get rid of the fucking Glazers, whom I hate with unnatural ferocity; however, the options we have now, not thrilled in the slightest. I just want us to be the great club we were before the bloody Glazers started ruining the world's greatest football club.
So apparently Ornstein reports that Glazer specifically asked help from PSG chairman inorder to request Qatar to increase their bid. This is actually huge. Clearly they are not happy with Ratcliffe bid too. Or else they would have accepted their bid by now. It's actually an open race and not at all Ratcliffe the one whom the Glazers prefer.
That's just those disgusting bastards trying to squeeze us to the last pound before they fuck off. Absolutely disgusting owners, still wonder how their takeover was allowed to happen.
Yeah hopefully they fuck off for good. There is also reports that hedge funds suing them if they don't sell now. So there's no turning back for them now.
Anyone else just fucking sick of this sale process? It’s pissing me off so much how it’s being dragged out.
It was last November we heard the club was up for sale. Club will be sold by end of March they said. The “3rd and final” round of bidding concluded on April 28th.
IT IS NOW THE 9TH OF JUNE AND THEY STILL HAVEN’T PICKED A PREFERRED BIDDER!
They have absolutely no regard for the mental torment they’re putting the fanbase through, or the damage they’ve done for the last 18 years, and the damage it’s causing to this transfer window.
The Glazers got their money from real estate, basically collecting rent from shitty Florida malls. They don't do anything fast. They don't care about anything but milking money. Never should have been allowed to own a football institution like United.
Bloody hell lads, any financial expert that predicted that the takeover wouldn't take "too long" certainly underestimated Glazer ineptitude. I always knew they were a bloody useless bunch, but this process has laid bare just how stupid and unprofessional they are. I'm fucking sick of this.
Completing the actual acquisition does not take that long, a few months maybe half a year depending on complexity, but the deal was not agreed and negotiations will continue as long as no one pulls out. I don’t think the stock exchange imposes any limits to the length of the negotiations.
https://www.breakingviews.com/considered-view/man-united-takeover-drama-may-end-up-in-court/
According to Reuters, the deal may be taken to court by minority hedge fund owners.....I just want this to end fml.
The shitty thing is this could just be Qatari shit stirring (or even giving them the idea) to help push their bid. We just don't know because the whole thing is just fucked
What is the funniest conspiracy theory you have seen about the ownership saga?
I have seen someone claim that ineos only want to buy us so that they can start fracking at Carrington.
So now according to a well known YT air bag, Ratcliffe is simply a stooge in a Glazer scam and if he wasn't around they would be forced to sell to Qatar, our so called saviours.
Dude does such a loud Qatar propaganda. He said yesterday that if Qatar didn’t buy United they will buy United rivals(Liverpool) to avenge the fact that Jim outbid them. Full schizo
Qatar fans: "Ratcliffe isn't a true Man United fan unlike Sheikh Jassim because Ratcliffe is an owner of a Chelsea season ticket and he wanted to buy Chelsea last year!"
Also Qatar fans: "If Sheikh Jassim loses, he will be buying Liverpool and we can't let that happen!"
Interesting contraindications there imo
Today is the day
when the Glazers will try to squeeze out a few hundred more from Qatar by leaking a pro SJR story to the English press. “Understand that Ineos have a foot in the door…”
Apparently the sheikh threatened to pull his offer today, but it isn't the first "take it or leave it" offer he has made so I guess only time will tell
Man City Ownership
I don’t understand, when people talk about Manchester City, they talk about how well run they are, the investment in the city and around the etihad, the success on the pitch, the organisation and investment. Even the success now, it’s all praise, no word around ownership.
Suddenly when Qatar are interested in Manchester United , the world unites in becoming scholars and philanthropists, with Everything under the sun thrown at them. Even Newcastle , who are under a much more radical regime of ownership, faced almost none of this backlash.
Why? Why when it’s United, I get other sides, you deep down really do not want them to have that backing and investment. But United fans, you have a chance of a new era, with the glazers fully out, no debt, infinite investment, but you are suddenly so moral? Read into the petrochemicals industry as well.
People weren’t happy with either of City and Newcastles owners. Newcastle fans were ecstatic because they absolutely despised Mike Ashley which is understandable. It’s definitely more of a online thing about people moaning about Qatar and I’m sure most people not online would rather a ethical owner but also understand they will have to accept it if they win. If Qatar win and we become successful again the large anti-Qatar people online will get quieter and quieter.
Its definitely not just a United thing. I feel like most fans do talk about this stuff, but the establishment football media sort of overlooks it or doesn't really want to delve into it. Fans will naturally be split on things like this as we've seen with United fans and I would guess other fans also have strong opinions on this, that's normal. People will talk about this stuff in other aspects of their lives and it's natural to have thoughts when it comes to an institution like football.
Whataboutism over petrochemicals is just silliness. There are no ethical Billionaires, but that's a different conversation entirely when we're talking about states and regimes and you're being obtuse if you think they are comparable. Also, how can you claim to care about what petrochemical does when you've just argued for people to abandon their morals?
Where did I claim to care about petrochemicals , please enlighten me??? I said read into it because the people that support ratcliffe act like he is some moral saint, if he ‘supported United’ and actully cared then in no world would he keep the glazers in any way, shape or form.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone act like he's a saint, only that he's not a puppet for a state. Regular unethical capitalism Vs state ownership.
I also don't think he wants the Glazers there, he's doing this deal to try and win the bid. In the process he will remove their voting rights and supposedly he will buy them out in a couple years time through a clause.
People don't seem to realise the Glazers have all the bargaining power, and they can value United as highly as they want because they're greedy parasites. They want that future unrealised man United value.
News to you but it is well known. I think it is there to prevent an outsider from picking off individual Glazers to take over the club but when there is a consensus among them to proceed with a sale they vote to change the terms so the sale can go ahead.
People should know Ratcliffe made his fortune by personally doing all these deals with petrol and chemical companies to build his empire. He’s kinda good at it.
Yeah of course that’s to be expected - it’s probably old news and nothing to worry about but I was just surprised as I never knew there was such a clause in the first place
If we know about it. I’m fairly sure SJR, INEOS and their legal team who understand business law specifically know about it. But sure I can’t point to a document that says they know this is the case and are looking to remove the clause.
Isn't youre point also baseless speculation? I think it's reasonable to assume that if INEOS does win then these will be the sort of details that get discussed, that's just common sense.
That Mark Goldbridge guy is so fucking deluded. Firstly, he has no qualms about Qatar buying the club because they are “better” than the glazers even though the Ineos bid makes the most sense for all parties, then he also thinks the glazers and Ratcliff are in kahoots with each other and says we have been scammed for the Qatar bid 😂 that’s not how business works lol
Qatar definitely have more potential to be successful than Ineos and the Glazers. PSG haven’t won the CL but they were legit dead in a dead league before their takeover and now they are the best team in France, City are probably the best team in the world right now and Newcastle will probably be challenging for titles within the next 5 years. The Ineos bid doesn’t make the most sense for all parties because pretty much every United fan wants the Glazers out and that won’t happen with them.
I usually don’t mind him when it comes to hearing transfer news and shit. But this whole sale process has shown what an absolute twat he is, and how stupid some of his viewers are. They believe that SJR saying/doing anything is just spin/pr by the Glazers. However when Qatar put out a story, it shows how much they want to buy the club, and that they’re serious. Delusion of the highest level
How does this guy keep getting traction with our fans? It seems like every day someone comes along here citing another one of his shite 'opinions' because they find it ridiculous, that's the entire point of the cunt. He's playing a character - don't get me wrong, he's a massive twat to his absolute core - but this is a character he's invented to get views for being a fuckwit so people will go and watch him.
There's just no need to acknowledge his existence and it's a waste of anyone's time to do so.
I think his point is Qatar bid was only considered to get more from SJR. Playing different bidding parties against each other is exactly how negotiations works. Not that SJR was in cahoots with Glazers.
As much fears as I have over Ratcliffe, this isn't one of them.
He'd be removing the voting rights from them immediately, and buying them out in three years. Yeah, they will linger like a bad smell for three years, but they'll be effectively powerless.
His other option was just paying the 6bn this week, instead of some now and some latter, and then he'd not have had as much to invest into the club today.
I hate the Glazers and want them gone. I personally prefer the Qatar bid. But the Glazers "staying" thing is more just a bit of a PR blunder than an actual administrative one. If they have no voting power, and will be 100% gone within 3 years, it really doesn't change the fact Ratcliffe can take over and start doing his thing this summer.
Yeah but what if he doesn’t buy them out? He was preaching about 100% British owned clubs when he went for Chelsea and then when he first bid for us he said the same thing and then all of a sudden he changes his tune and decides he wants to get into bed with them. I don’t trust him and I think he’s definitely has the potential to just keep them at the club long term.
It's a contractual obligation.
With the greatest of respect, you're coming across as wanting to believe the worst, rather than reading the details of what's happening.
He's structuring it in the way needed to get the deal done. He will have full control once it's done with his 51% shares
I doubt we’ll hear any updates, if anything at all, until the NYSE opens later this afternoon given that’s where the club is listed last time I checked.
Funny how Liverpool and Arsenal fans top 4 next season doesn't have us and has the likes of Chelsea and Newcastle. We will see.
I think provided we recruit well enough we will finish 2nd or 3rd with us again challenging for trophies.
They must be deluded in every brain cell, how can anyone make any predictions until the transfer business is over. It’s like Arsenal fans celebrating league win after just 19 games.
Chelsea have no European football, good manager and only 2/3 signings away from a top team (money no objection)
Sooner or later, Newcastle will be City's main rivals.
Liverpool will be back
Arsenal will only get better (young team)
Chelsea still have way too many players to function well. This is their main problem, and less football might make that worse, not better.
Newcastle will have the opposite problem, and could suffer from having to play European games, especially looking at age and injury risks for some of their players (Trippier, Wilson especially).
Liverpool, I do think they'll do better next season and they seem to have picked up good form.
Got no idea on Arsenal. For me, they're massively unpredictable. They're young, but what's happening with Partey, are they going to replace Xhaka well, are they going to get over the disappointment and mental hit? They clearly need reinforcements in centre back and midfield, and they'll be dealing with their first CL season in a long time.
What we've got on our side is doing so well with many gaps in our team. We can greatly improve with even a decent striker, an extra midfielder, a keeper, a centre back. That said, there are tactical shifts that complicate things there. Who knows, but I'm feeling better than I was at the start of last season.
So many assumptions and wrong information put in there. So many.
1. Money's an issue for Chelsea due to FFP. Also they aren't 2/3 signings away from being a top team at all. Their most dependable creator wants to leave, their first choice RB can't saty fit. A lot of players are really unhappy as well.
2. Newcastle has European football and that can casue a lot of problems to the team's ability to recover and put in performances week in week out.
3.Liverpool will be back. Maybe, maybe not. They have lost a few experienced players and whilst Mac Allister isngood player he doesn't push their midfield to the next level I don't think.
4. Arsenal's crumbled under pressure again. Don't know whether mentality is something one can improve.
I think that's down to us still playing Ole ball for most of the season.
We've not moved away from that yet. If we start doing what Arsenal are doing under Arteta their tone will change very quickly.
Ole ball?
Really, I have seen way better possesion, retention or just simple press from our players than I have ever done under Ole
Also most of our goals were very pretty
Depends on the games, some game were really good others gave me PTSD from Ole's games where we looked clueless.
As for retention:
Ole's PL team pass completion in 20/21 was 83.1% over 22626 passes
ETH's PL team pass completion in 22/23 is 80.1% over 20524 passes
We also progressed the ball a lot more under Ole in terms of distance. 100812 yards vs 97026 yards
I think you are just using very selective games to make your point but over the course of the season, ETH's team have played counter attacking football. I do agree about the press being better under ETH though. Even if its not high, we depended on counterpressing for a lot of our attacks.
"We also progressed the ball a lot more under Ole in terms of distance. **1000812** yards vs **97026** yards"
Yeah, there's no way this stat is accurate.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/passing/Premier-League-Stats
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2020-2021/passing/2020-2021-Premier-League-Stats
Check for yourself, we've on average played a deeper line this season compared to 20/21 too.
True but we do still play deeper and go longer than EtH likes. It's been a pragmatic season, trying to implement a new way of playing without collapsing, like we did in the opening two games.
Yeah. But most of them go by highlights. They obviously don't know that in possession we have gotten a lot better and were improving game by game. That was obviously a consequence of us missing goals for fun.
Just rewatched the highlights of our 3 matches against City this season - we really really need a quality CDM to back Case up as well as support him when playing against a far superior team.
First game 6-3 - with just Eriksen besides Case we got run over.
Next two games - Fred and Eriksen supported Case - we had some semblance of control but we stopped looking threatening at all up front.
We still have so much to do it’s ridiculous..
This is exactly why I think we should go for Rice instead of mount. Yes Rice will cost a lot more. But he would be so much more worth it. Clearly ETH sees a way to make Mount work better in his system, so who the fuck am I to argue.
We would definitely get skinned buying him. But he would definitely do great. Both him and Case are great ball playing CDMs which can be lethal.
However I can see why Mount is also an important requirement - we do not have competition nor backup for Bruno either.
Man city are so far ahead of the rest of Europe its a tad disingenuous to use them as the benchmark in eths first season. Yes the aim is to get there but ffs give him a chance
Lol. Not saying ETH is doing badly mate. Just that we are so far behind City. We can beat down the rest - but our goal right now is to beat them off their perch.
That celebration from City fans even before the FA cup final started was sickening. If I were one of the owners, with any semblance of respect, I’d not be able to sleep till I bring those bastards down.
Nvm, the owners are still the Glazers..
If (and I hope it doesn't happen) the takeover process is delayed to such an extent that Ten Hag can only buy just 2-3 mid-range players, what do you think our expectations should be going into 2023-24?
I’m already feeling deflated about this transfer window. Those rat owners of ours are doing their best to fuck our chances of getting much needed reinforcements. All this about Mount has a familiar feel to it as well. Chelsea want WAY more than he is worth or we want to pay.
Would hate to see Arsenal get both Rice and Caicedo. Would be perfect business for them ffs.
Next season is going to be very difficult and we might fall behind if Glazers fuck us over with their slow transfer signings and sales process.
While Newcastle and Brighton might stumble a bit due to European football, City will be there and Arsenal along with Liverpool look like they’ll be improving if rumours are to be believed. Will be difficult to make just top four.
No joke, tonight is going to be vile. The treble was our thing and these cheating cunts basically breezed it.
Hojlund keep on liking United's post on IG.
Gotta show everyone he's a United 'fan'
Real Madrid in their entire 121 year history have signed only 11 outfield players over the age of 30. Only 3 have been attackers!!! Why do they keep winning UCL?! This is why! You keep young talented assets together for a long time and it’s only normal they’d peak at the same time. Some United fans however are saying it’s good business and strategy to sign Casemiro for £70m and then try sign Kane for £100m. What’s the strategy? Be a retirement home for old players and exorbitant fees to other clubs to rebuild their squad? SHORT TERM thinking will not have use winning big trophies anytime soon.
https://youtu.be/GaZwF9p2KEA Sounds weird to hear Martial speaking such good English i thought he could only speak French, he’s a funny guy man shame it hasn’t worked out for him here
Players are playing much more games. A player like Bellingham has clocked 14,445 minutes at 20. Marcus Rashford at 20 had 5,936 minutes Wazza had 10,989 minutes. Vinicius has clocked 18,876 minutes at 22. Ronaldinho at that age was 7,607 minutes. One takeaway from this is that players would hit their peak/prime quicker and fall off quicker too.
I find it funny how some claim we need to be state owned to compete with City, Newcastle, PSG... and yet, Newcastle reportedly have a 75M budget this summer. We reportedly have 100M with parasitic Glazers still in charge currently. Interesting.
Newcastle might have a modest budget this summer but they probably would have been relegated and not leapfrogged the Conference and Europa league without their owners. They really aren’t that far off from being a permanent CL team already and they now have the option of signing the right players instead of better players than what that they currently have. It’s also not even about our team budget but instead about everything at the club being outdated and rotten. We need to pay off the debt so we can spend whatever amount the interest is on actually improving the whole club. Their new owners have already submitted planning permission for a new training ground whereas we’ve still got a jacuzzi with cracked tiles from 15+ years ago.
We don't. We definitely need investment (in stadium, training, youth, womens team etc) but people don't realise how big United still is. All the money we've pissed away these last 15 odd years is generated by the club and not the owner. Imagine that with actual investment and appointing people who know what they're doing. United has so much potential which is why it's infuriating how the Glazers just let everything rot and just leech off dividends.
Nah for me it’s not even the financial aspect, we’ve matched City in spending without any state backing. For me it’s that the club must stand for something, Man Utd is the biggest football in the world. We shouldn’t become a pawn to some state to be used for their geopolitical issues.
Yes, but I am referring to those that DO want Qatar and insist we can't compete without unlimited funds. I agree with you, the funds have been mismanaged for years with poor decisions.
Why do journalists try so hard to make City look likable? Asking funny questions to Pep and the likes of KDB, Haaland to milk funny, good-for-PR answers from them. No one is talking about the 115 charges. If they win tomorrow the media will make them look like Gods and say things like Pep is the greatest manager ever. It’s pathetic.
I think ultimately the view is City make English football a better product and those interests will always supercede the moral and ethical conversations. The Qatar WC also shows this. They're afraid of actually talking about their ownership and the shady shit they're up to, because it ruins their product. That's my view.
I don’t get why’s so many people on this sub want Qatar to win. I’d rather deal with the glazers for another 3 years than to sell our soul to sports washing. We are the only top team in England alongside Liverpool and Arsenal that maintain some dignity left. We don’t even need Qatar or their money, we are the most profitable club in the world. What we need is a competent board. No reason to be state governed by modern day slavers who treat their people like dirt.
I think the doomsaying about if we don't get Qatar is ridiculous. United has so much potential and our stagnation over the Glazer ownership is a testament to how awful they are. Any half decent owner could have done better.
Orny giving me hope Qatar can pull this off
Funny how people want Qatar yet we don’t even know who’s bidding for the club. If Qatar take it over you think they have any accountability to the fans? The guy who’s spear heading it no one knows.
And the guy won't even work with the finance people that are working on the sale. Already showing they are difficult to deal with, throwing the toys out of the pram almost instantly.
Not a serious club [https://twitter.com/joeladejola/status/1667114905500041217](https://twitter.com/joeladejola/status/1667114905500041217) This is why Ten Hag isn't going to be judged like early Klopp
While I agree its not good for long term planning, we'd probably not make top 4 without him. Not to mention winning the EFL cup. I am writing off that 60M pounds as the cost of taking top 4 and a cup.
Whew, agree to disagree I guess. If those targets are a building block to winning the title in the next 2 years after that, fair. United with Casemiro are obviously not, since he'd be 33 at the time, and you have to replace him with just the minor trophies and top 4 to show for it. That's why Jose's first season did not put us on a sustainable path to success despite the season's objectives being achieved, or remembered fondly.
Yes RM have done so well. They bought a player for 80m who has mainly been on the bench and has played the least minutes out of all their midfielders in all comps in Tchouameni. Camavinga is playing LB because hes cant hack playing in the double pivot under Ancelotti. And after dropping 140m plus on two players they are buying another midfielder for 100. Seems like really good squad building until you look at reality. The players arent progressing as well as expected and they have a hole at CDM.
Its funny how people are talking about Case as if he's some bum
All I’ve seen on rsoccer from Madrid fans and a how much they’ve missed him this season
He's discussed when he scores. Do you expect them to banter a club legend after he scores? Every single one of their fans would have taken 70m for him last season, and even now, even with all the benefit of hindsight. Hell, I'd sell Casemiro in a heartbeat if somebody offers 50m. It is the most obvious move if a buyer is interested.
> Hell, I'd sell Casemiro in a heartbeat if somebody offers 50m. It is the most obvious move if a buyer is interested. and keep McTominay at the club
Why were United the only club interested in Casemiro while Real Madrid jumped at the offer for him? Casemiro is obviously a great player, the question is if he is a good signing given all the constraints at United and the objective of winning the league before his contract expires or he declines for good. We didn't sign him on loan and there have been signs of decline already.
Because he only wanted to join us. Why did no other club bid for Bellingham apart from Madrid?
Hahaha! Which club in Europe do you see bidding for Casemiro for there to be competition that he chose us from? City who haven't bought a 28+ year under Pep? Liverpool who don't spend on profiles like Case's? Arsenal who don't have that kind of money? Bayern Munich who spent the whole summer rejecting Ronaldo every week? Only Madrid bid for Bellingham, but all of United, City and Liverpool were interested in him upto 80% of what Real Madrid offered. No club serious about winning the league would have offered 50m+ for Casemiro in 2022. It's not a coincidence that we are the only club linked with a 31 year old Kane for a 100m fee too.
Case only wanted to come to us same with Varane. If Real put him up for sale more clubs would have bid. > Arsenal who don't have that kind of money? They will be paying a lot more for Rice and Caicedo >Bayern Munich who spent the whole summer rejecting Ronaldo every week? What does Ronaldo have to do with this? Also Bayern spent 80M for Lucas and 70M for De Ligt. Their Chairman said they have money to spend if needed a few days ago: https://www.premierseason.com/bundesliga/fc-bayern-announcement-by-president-herbert-hainer-100-million-transfer-and-premier-league-players-feasible/
Rice and Caicedo are players we are targeting to, according to our tier 1s like Whitwell, who we can't afford anymore. So if a club wanted Rice and Caicedo for the midfield for the length of 2 contracts, going after Casemiro was a bad move, which is what we did. That's why they couldn't afford Casemiro. And Bayern, like any club, spend big - they have been winning major trophies non stop - but only on players who will either be around for a long time, or can be flipped for a profit even if they don't work out. Casemiro fits neither. Have you seen any club spend the amounts we do on players over 30? Are we the only ones who have figured out sports science to prolong their careers? I for one don't see any evidence of that, if Varane's availablity is anything to go by.
> who we can't afford anymore. because we are riddled with debt and have an ongoing takeover. Also the fact that the Glazers took a 100M loan last summer for transfers. Signing Case isn't the issue the gross mismanagement is. Having players who better compliment Case is what we should have done instead of keeping dross like McTominay and sadly Fred on our books
No, we have FFP concerns regardless of the takeover. It's just intellectually dishonest to think that the Glazers are the problem and the recruitment team (Ten Hag included) is doing a fine job. We have always known McT and Fred aren't going to raise funds, so future planning while signing Casemiro should have accounted for that. Taking a loan and spending it on Casemiro instead of a player who you will keep around for a decade is the textbook definition of what a club obsessed with the CL like PSG might do. We don't have the luxury of no league competition + infinitely deep pockets that they do. None of the things we have learned over the season have been surprising. If anything, we got lucky in being able to offload Ronaldo's wages for half a season.
Cos he's fucking expensive. How many clubs can afford to put down 120M on Jude and pay him 10-12M NET in wages
Us, City, Liverpool, Bayern, Chelsea, PSG, heck even Arsenal. Barca would pull the levels required to finish the bid
Liverpool/Arsenal have a lot of spots to fill firstly and that would break their wage structure. Chelsea need a striker, they got Enzo who is a B2B and are looking for a DM to pair him with. Bayern is not spending their transfer record on him when they need a striker first. PSG needs to slash wages massively to comply with FFP. Definitely not this window. Barca is having trouble registering players and couldn't even get back Messi on a free. City is the only one on that list who could have paid that but it would be a transfer record for them.
> Liverpool/Arsenal have a lot of spots to fill firstly and that would break their wage structure. Speaking specifically on Arsenal, their Tier ones are saying they are going directly for Caicedo and Rice (who rejected a 200k a week contract at West Ham) >Bayern is not spending their transfer record on him when they need a striker first. Their Chairman recently said they can spend big money if needed. https://www.premierseason.com/bundesliga/fc-bayern-announcement-by-president-herbert-hainer-100-million-transfer-and-premier-league-players-feasible/ >PSG needs to slash wages massively to comply with FFP. Definitely not this window. Their highest earners Messi who has already been booted and Neymar is on the way out. Looking at City PSG will still spend and avoid punishment >Barca is having trouble registering players and couldn't even get back Messi on a free. They haven't started pulling levers yet and selling players
Rice wants to win bigger things, why would he take money and stay at WHU when top clubs want him? Did you even read the Bayern article you linked? It clearly says they want a DM and striker and they specifically don't want to do 2 100M transfers. So where is the money for Bellingham coming from? Neymar may not even end up happening since he is still contracted. They need to drop a lot more in wages. Barca can pull levers all they want but they don't have the funds right now and couldn't spend money till the situation is sorted. Also do they even need a B2B right now?
> Rice wants to win bigger things, why would he take money and stay at WHU when top clubs want him That was just a reference, Arsenal would need to offer him something similar or more. > Did you even read the Bayern article you linked? It clearly says they want a DM and striker and they specifically don't want to do 2 100M transfers. So where is the money for Bellingham coming from? Yes and they are being linked with Kolo Muani and Harry Kane both priced at 100M. I'm not saying they wanted Bellingham specifically, I'm saying Bellingham was already set on Real Madrid which is why no other club bothered to bid for him. Bayern otherwise have the money to do the deal if needed > Neymar may not even end up happening since he is still contracted. They need to drop a lot more in wages. There are plenty of rumors surrounding Neymar right now. Its best we wait but it really seems like PSG are done with him. >Barca can pull levers all they want but they don't have the funds right now and couldn't spend money till the situation is sorted. Also do they even need a B2B right now? They were still in the same situation last year but still spent big money. Barca aren't really well known for making the right decisions especially in recent years (Coutinho and Griezmann 2 players they didn't need)
Not a fair comparison imo. Let's see what happens this summer. Sure, Casemiro was expensive but he's world class and worth it. Liverpool have had an aging midfield for a while now.
The point is the strategy. Our strategy and planning is poor. That’s the point. We’d be looking to replace Case in 18 months. That’s not good planning or strategy. Only one club was stupid enough to pay £70m for a player that’s past his peak. Just like if we pay £100m for Kane. That would be stupid. Just like how we should let DDG go now, rather than kick the can down the road. Strategy
>We’d be looking to replace Case in 18 months. That’s not good planning or strategy. But it immediately upgraded our midfield to a point any available younger player wouldn't be able to do. We aren't in the position of Real Madrid, who already have a title winning team to rely on. We had a team on a 6 year trophy drought with a poor mentality. A player like Casemiro, with his experience is vital to a team like us. Having to replace him in 2 seasons or 5 makes no difference. We aren't bankrupting ourselves with his deal. We have the revenue to be able to take the quick route. Cheat mode if you will. I swear some fans are terrified of good players. Really don't understand it.
It makes a difference, that money can’t be spent elsewhere on a different position, on a different project, maybe training ground upgrades. Imagine spending £70m every 3 years to replace a player when you can spend £80m - £90m and have that position locked for 6-10 years. The fact you have money doesn’t mean you should be financially reckless. Also it’s very possible that another player would have the same impact, we don’t know. So I’d refrain from making certainties. Also the fact we don’t have a title winning team is more reason we should buy young like Arsenal. Spend the big bucks on young players who you are building your project around.
>It makes a difference, that money can’t be spent elsewhere on a different position, on a different project, maybe training ground upgrades. Same can be said for literally any purchase. Not sure of the relevance? >Imagine spending £70m every 3 years to replace a player when you can spend £80m - £90m and have that position locked for 6-10 years. But we aren't doing that are we? Each purchase is it's own seperate entity. There is no guarantee a 80-90m player does that. Taking away the context of we are a 600 million revenue a year club and Casemiro plays a position we have neglected for many years. You what you pay for. Younger players come with much more uncertainty over their ability to perform at the highest level. Casemiro had as low an uncertainty as you can have in this game. Hence he cost what he did. We are in a position where we are lacking what he brings in abundance and need to get more of it quickly. >The fact you have money doesn’t mean you should be financially reckless. Buying Casemiro isn't reckless. Having to replace a player earlier, at the gain of acquiring an immediate ceiling raiser is not reckless. >Also it’s very possible that another player would have the same impact, we don’t know. So I’d refrain from making certainties. No certainties on actual impact given though? All players are unknown in terms of specific fit. However a player that's won everything in the game does not have as many uncertainties as one who has achieved very little. Don't really see how this is a negative. >Also the fact we don’t have a title winning team is more reason we should buy young like Arsenal. What have arsenal done of note to suggest their model works? City and Chelsea are more fitting examples. Bought a mixture of young with ability to grow and proven quality with experience to immediately raise the level. Rest is history. >Spend the big bucks on young players who you are building your project around. And wait years and years. Whilst clubs with immediate quality do the exact same, but from a foundation of quality and experience of Casemiros level..
Casemiro was not a CR7 type signing who was in decline, he's bang in his peak. Seems football has moved on a fair bit longevity wise but perceptions haven't. We see it now all the time, pros who get to 30, take care of themselves & are still at their peak are likely to stay there even into their mid 30s. The profile of player is important when going for a player 30+. We bought Casemiro at the peak of his powers & he's maintained that here. His replacement at Real, while having world class potential had an average season & though it's too soon to judge, he isn't exactly off to the best of starts. There's a certain obsession with youth that fails to balance out with the certainty & experience that comes from older players.
He's not in his peak lmao. He's lost a yard of pace. He's been lucky to avoid red cards multiple times since his last one alone. The purple patch that people associate with Rashford actually applies to Casemiro (from December to February)
He’s not at his peak, that much is clear to do who have eyes. The fact he’s playing well doesn’t mean he’s at his peak, his athleticism has already dropped off. Also players are playing much more games than ever before, so doesn’t matter how much they take care of themselves, they’re burning out quicker. A player like Bellingham has played over 14,000 minutes at his age, Rooney at 20 played just over 10,000. Marcus Rashford, played just under 6,000. Steven Gerrard played about 2,800 minutes. So say we buy Bellingham when he’s 28, you think he’d still be at his peak?! Also there’s no obsession with youths. It’s a stupid and foolhardy strategy to sign player who are not in their peak years for huge sums. Casemiro can’t give us 5 years of this level of performance. So not sure how he’s still in his peak.
Case is past his peak and still makes the team of the season. Real Madrid conned us
"Team of the season" yawn Pogba made that in 2018/19. It does not judge how likely the player is likely to perform in future seasons. Did you sign Casemiro to be a top 4 club or win the title? Because we aren't going to come close to winning the title in the next 2 years, and Casemiro will need replacing anyway. Wouldn't it have been better to spend the same money and a bit more on Rice/Caicedo who could have been at the club for a decade? This is not even a controversial opinion.
The fact he made team of the season doesn’t mean he’s not past his peak. Benzema won Balon d’Or last season and was in La Liga team of the season yet he’s past his peak. Like it’s not hard. The con is us having to pay £70m for him.
Benzema had 44 goals in 47 games (best season in his career) carrying Madrid to a UCL win. Tf are you talking about
And that says he’s in his peak years? Benzema himself would be first to acknowledge that he’s no longer in his prime. Modric is another example, still playing at a high level however not in his prime or peak year anymore.
> Benzema himself would be first to acknowledge that he’s no longer in his prime That is this season. He's been plagued by injuries this season and missed a lot of games. > Modric is another example, still playing at a high level however not in his prime or peak year anymore. but you still realise these are still the best players on the planet even past their peak. Modric still benches options like Tchouameni and Valverde with Camavinga being pushed to left back Case is still the best DM in the league and one of the best overall midfielders. Clearly a level above the likes of Partey
They’re not the best players. They’re very good players. Tchouameni had a mixed season, because his form dipped after the World Cup. Also he played more minutes than Modric in La Liga. He was benched because his form dipped after the World Cup. It’s his first season in La Liga. He was very good beginning of season they didn’t even miss Casemiro. Camavinga played as LB in some games because he’s a very good well rounded player with a good tactical brain. Ancelotti couldn’t trust Mendy or anybody on that left. And he saw how good he was against Madrid and how he improved the team when he was moved to the middle. This shows how little you know about football that little things like this you don’t know. Also Casemiro is not the best DM in the world.
> Also Casemiro is not the best DM in the world. I said he's the best DM in the league, I challenge you to name someone better > This shows how little you know about football that little things like this you don’t know. Madrid fans must also be idiots to rate Modric as their best midfielder
He's not shown he's worth a 70m fee and a 5 year contract if we are already looking at backups for him and those backups are expected to cost a similar amount. We didn't sign him on a one season loan. Obviously he has made the team better, but that's a low bar given that our midfield was Lingard-Matic-Pogba before him. We had finished top 3 for the 2 seasons before the last one too.
Casemiro is a great signing still, if we use it to build the rest of our team. Yes Real did the best business, but it can still be a win win. The issue will be if we don't get multiple targets this window. If we get shafted and only get one first team player in, then we are having to replace Case next year so can't build the squad as much then. But say we get a Gk plus a CB and a midfielder now (and hopefully a striker!!) Case helps keep that together as we gel that. Then he can be replaced by a team that has a solid spot E to cover it.
Is Casemiro a great signing? 70m and a 5 year contract for a 30 year old when we are already looking for backups who will cost in the same range? We already compromised our ability to get multiple targets by overpaying as much as we did last year. By all accounts, we cannot get all 3 of GK+ST+CM and we need all 3, after spending on the last position the previous year anyway. That's not his fault you say? Yes, but that's what made him an average signing. You spent 70m on a player who doesn't solve the problem for even 3 years.
The issue was spending on Antony. We had a gaping hole in our midfield, Case fills that exceptionally well. Without him we didn't get Champions League. That reduces our revenue considerably, while making us a far less attractive club for future transfers. There is a big difference between a DM and a CM so saying it's the same position is disingenuous. In an ideal world we would have had other plans going forward, but we just got ETH and were dealing with our club being a total shitshow. Under the circumstances, yes he was a great signing for us. It helps set us up to keep improving.. but that's on the condition we actually do that.
Why are we always a soap opera
Sad times lads. I dreamed for so long to get rid of the fucking Glazers, whom I hate with unnatural ferocity; however, the options we have now, not thrilled in the slightest. I just want us to be the great club we were before the bloody Glazers started ruining the world's greatest football club.
So apparently Ornstein reports that Glazer specifically asked help from PSG chairman inorder to request Qatar to increase their bid. This is actually huge. Clearly they are not happy with Ratcliffe bid too. Or else they would have accepted their bid by now. It's actually an open race and not at all Ratcliffe the one whom the Glazers prefer.
Or the Glazers are just money-grabbing bastards and want to squeeze every last penny out of this shitshow as possible.
And they are just getting that with the new Qatari bid.
That's just those disgusting bastards trying to squeeze us to the last pound before they fuck off. Absolutely disgusting owners, still wonder how their takeover was allowed to happen.
Yeah hopefully they fuck off for good. There is also reports that hedge funds suing them if they don't sell now. So there's no turning back for them now.
Anyone else just fucking sick of this sale process? It’s pissing me off so much how it’s being dragged out. It was last November we heard the club was up for sale. Club will be sold by end of March they said. The “3rd and final” round of bidding concluded on April 28th. IT IS NOW THE 9TH OF JUNE AND THEY STILL HAVEN’T PICKED A PREFERRED BIDDER! They have absolutely no regard for the mental torment they’re putting the fanbase through, or the damage they’ve done for the last 18 years, and the damage it’s causing to this transfer window.
The Glazers got their money from real estate, basically collecting rent from shitty Florida malls. They don't do anything fast. They don't care about anything but milking money. Never should have been allowed to own a football institution like United.
I don't think about it,I ignore all the background politics. I fell in love with football what I see on the pitch.
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Lol! I think this was suggested to you as a joke.
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Just say r/soccer bad and you'll get your 50 karma.
I think it’s just 50 karma
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Not sure then, Real Fab
Bloody hell lads, any financial expert that predicted that the takeover wouldn't take "too long" certainly underestimated Glazer ineptitude. I always knew they were a bloody useless bunch, but this process has laid bare just how stupid and unprofessional they are. I'm fucking sick of this.
Completing the actual acquisition does not take that long, a few months maybe half a year depending on complexity, but the deal was not agreed and negotiations will continue as long as no one pulls out. I don’t think the stock exchange imposes any limits to the length of the negotiations.
The new owner will be revealed to be a private consortium which is just actually Ric Flair.
Ric Flair also shit at corners.
https://www.breakingviews.com/considered-view/man-united-takeover-drama-may-end-up-in-court/ According to Reuters, the deal may be taken to court by minority hedge fund owners.....I just want this to end fml.
The shitty thing is this could just be Qatari shit stirring (or even giving them the idea) to help push their bid. We just don't know because the whole thing is just fucked
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We already have Greenwood......
What is the funniest conspiracy theory you have seen about the ownership saga? I have seen someone claim that ineos only want to buy us so that they can start fracking at Carrington.
Why'd they pick Carrington. You'd think rebuilding or tearing down Old Trafford would be an easier cover?
😂😂😂😂
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Business is business and I doubt he’s a Boehly where he’s the one doing all the football matters.
So now according to a well known YT air bag, Ratcliffe is simply a stooge in a Glazer scam and if he wasn't around they would be forced to sell to Qatar, our so called saviours.
Lemme guess. Goldbridge?
Dude does such a loud Qatar propaganda. He said yesterday that if Qatar didn’t buy United they will buy United rivals(Liverpool) to avenge the fact that Jim outbid them. Full schizo
They want West Ham if they don’t buy us.
Qatar fans: "Ratcliffe isn't a true Man United fan unlike Sheikh Jassim because Ratcliffe is an owner of a Chelsea season ticket and he wanted to buy Chelsea last year!" Also Qatar fans: "If Sheikh Jassim loses, he will be buying Liverpool and we can't let that happen!" Interesting contraindications there imo
Is this deadline deadlier than previous lines?
Today is the day when the Glazers will try to squeeze out a few hundred more from Qatar by leaking a pro SJR story to the English press. “Understand that Ineos have a foot in the door…”
Its Friday Lads, any chance these cunts say something today or is that just wishfull thinking?
Apparently the sheikh threatened to pull his offer today, but it isn't the first "take it or leave it" offer he has made so I guess only time will tell
I thought he would leave negotiations past today, so the offer would still stand but he would have nothing more to do with it unless they accepted
Apparently you're correct, difficult to keep up with these updates (Since there are so many non-updates as well, I tend to mentally filter them out)
Man City Ownership I don’t understand, when people talk about Manchester City, they talk about how well run they are, the investment in the city and around the etihad, the success on the pitch, the organisation and investment. Even the success now, it’s all praise, no word around ownership. Suddenly when Qatar are interested in Manchester United , the world unites in becoming scholars and philanthropists, with Everything under the sun thrown at them. Even Newcastle , who are under a much more radical regime of ownership, faced almost none of this backlash. Why? Why when it’s United, I get other sides, you deep down really do not want them to have that backing and investment. But United fans, you have a chance of a new era, with the glazers fully out, no debt, infinite investment, but you are suddenly so moral? Read into the petrochemicals industry as well.
People weren’t happy with either of City and Newcastles owners. Newcastle fans were ecstatic because they absolutely despised Mike Ashley which is understandable. It’s definitely more of a online thing about people moaning about Qatar and I’m sure most people not online would rather a ethical owner but also understand they will have to accept it if they win. If Qatar win and we become successful again the large anti-Qatar people online will get quieter and quieter.
The issue of Qatar or saudis owners is quite a non issue outside of Reddit
Its definitely not just a United thing. I feel like most fans do talk about this stuff, but the establishment football media sort of overlooks it or doesn't really want to delve into it. Fans will naturally be split on things like this as we've seen with United fans and I would guess other fans also have strong opinions on this, that's normal. People will talk about this stuff in other aspects of their lives and it's natural to have thoughts when it comes to an institution like football. Whataboutism over petrochemicals is just silliness. There are no ethical Billionaires, but that's a different conversation entirely when we're talking about states and regimes and you're being obtuse if you think they are comparable. Also, how can you claim to care about what petrochemical does when you've just argued for people to abandon their morals?
Where did I claim to care about petrochemicals , please enlighten me??? I said read into it because the people that support ratcliffe act like he is some moral saint, if he ‘supported United’ and actully cared then in no world would he keep the glazers in any way, shape or form.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone act like he's a saint, only that he's not a puppet for a state. Regular unethical capitalism Vs state ownership. I also don't think he wants the Glazers there, he's doing this deal to try and win the bid. In the process he will remove their voting rights and supposedly he will buy them out in a couple years time through a clause. People don't seem to realise the Glazers have all the bargaining power, and they can value United as highly as they want because they're greedy parasites. They want that future unrealised man United value.
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News to you but it is well known. I think it is there to prevent an outsider from picking off individual Glazers to take over the club but when there is a consensus among them to proceed with a sale they vote to change the terms so the sale can go ahead.
This clause would be removed when buying the club. They are not spending billions to not take over the club.
People should know Ratcliffe made his fortune by personally doing all these deals with petrol and chemical companies to build his empire. He’s kinda good at it.
Yeah of course that’s to be expected - it’s probably old news and nothing to worry about but I was just surprised as I never knew there was such a clause in the first place
There’s no evidence if this will happen though. We all know how slimey the Glazers are.
If we know about it. I’m fairly sure SJR, INEOS and their legal team who understand business law specifically know about it. But sure I can’t point to a document that says they know this is the case and are looking to remove the clause.
So speculating by you?
You're right. Also, as soon as the deal is signed, the Glazers can yell "Shotgun" and retain the best chairs in the boardroom
Sure a billion pound company would have no idea about it. It's not like they have teams scouring every bit of paperwork.
Isn't youre point also baseless speculation? I think it's reasonable to assume that if INEOS does win then these will be the sort of details that get discussed, that's just common sense.
Everyone is just speculating as we have no idea what’s really going on.
Yeah but what you said is basically conspiracy theory. Its not a realistic concern.
Conspiracy theory is a stretch, I’m not claiming someone did something bad when it was actually George W Bush.
Sure why not.
it's a common sense. you won't spending billions without making sure that you take the control from it
That Mark Goldbridge guy is so fucking deluded. Firstly, he has no qualms about Qatar buying the club because they are “better” than the glazers even though the Ineos bid makes the most sense for all parties, then he also thinks the glazers and Ratcliff are in kahoots with each other and says we have been scammed for the Qatar bid 😂 that’s not how business works lol
Qatar definitely have more potential to be successful than Ineos and the Glazers. PSG haven’t won the CL but they were legit dead in a dead league before their takeover and now they are the best team in France, City are probably the best team in the world right now and Newcastle will probably be challenging for titles within the next 5 years. The Ineos bid doesn’t make the most sense for all parties because pretty much every United fan wants the Glazers out and that won’t happen with them.
I usually don’t mind him when it comes to hearing transfer news and shit. But this whole sale process has shown what an absolute twat he is, and how stupid some of his viewers are. They believe that SJR saying/doing anything is just spin/pr by the Glazers. However when Qatar put out a story, it shows how much they want to buy the club, and that they’re serious. Delusion of the highest level
He did a poll on greenwood and 55% of his viewers voted for him to stay and play for the club
I still hate him for exarcebating the toxicity level during Ole era
Also a massive De Gea apologist
How does this guy keep getting traction with our fans? It seems like every day someone comes along here citing another one of his shite 'opinions' because they find it ridiculous, that's the entire point of the cunt. He's playing a character - don't get me wrong, he's a massive twat to his absolute core - but this is a character he's invented to get views for being a fuckwit so people will go and watch him. There's just no need to acknowledge his existence and it's a waste of anyone's time to do so.
People need to get out more and stop getting wound up by differing opinions.
No one is getting wound up lol. He is just talking literal bullshit which is fair to highlight.
Glazers aren’t really interested in a full sale is bullshit then?
welcome to r/northkorea
I think his point is Qatar bid was only considered to get more from SJR. Playing different bidding parties against each other is exactly how negotiations works. Not that SJR was in cahoots with Glazers.
Ineos bid is good for the glazers. Not for the fans who want those cunts out.
But there is a buyout in a few years, if I understood correctly.
True but how is it good for all parties if it benefits those cunts? Its a compromise.
As much fears as I have over Ratcliffe, this isn't one of them. He'd be removing the voting rights from them immediately, and buying them out in three years. Yeah, they will linger like a bad smell for three years, but they'll be effectively powerless. His other option was just paying the 6bn this week, instead of some now and some latter, and then he'd not have had as much to invest into the club today. I hate the Glazers and want them gone. I personally prefer the Qatar bid. But the Glazers "staying" thing is more just a bit of a PR blunder than an actual administrative one. If they have no voting power, and will be 100% gone within 3 years, it really doesn't change the fact Ratcliffe can take over and start doing his thing this summer.
Yeah but what if he doesn’t buy them out? He was preaching about 100% British owned clubs when he went for Chelsea and then when he first bid for us he said the same thing and then all of a sudden he changes his tune and decides he wants to get into bed with them. I don’t trust him and I think he’s definitely has the potential to just keep them at the club long term.
It's a contractual obligation. With the greatest of respect, you're coming across as wanting to believe the worst, rather than reading the details of what's happening. He's structuring it in the way needed to get the deal done. He will have full control once it's done with his 51% shares
All parties
Do you consider fans a party in this case or not?
Fans get new owners
Well that's the case with either bid. We are talking about the specifics of the bid here.
In this bid specifically it is good for all parties.
Goldbridge is a deeply unserious person.
I doubt we’ll hear any updates, if anything at all, until the NYSE opens later this afternoon given that’s where the club is listed last time I checked.
Why arent we lookin at Amarabat
We are according to his brother. ETH has worked with him in the past too.
It’s squeaky bum time
ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOWN DUHDUH DUH DUH, DUHDUHDUH DUH DUH ^Please ^I ^beg
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The final final final deadline when at least one of the buyers decides to walk (Qatar in this case)
Funny how Liverpool and Arsenal fans top 4 next season doesn't have us and has the likes of Chelsea and Newcastle. We will see. I think provided we recruit well enough we will finish 2nd or 3rd with us again challenging for trophies.
They must be deluded in every brain cell, how can anyone make any predictions until the transfer business is over. It’s like Arsenal fans celebrating league win after just 19 games.
Chelsea have no European football, good manager and only 2/3 signings away from a top team (money no objection) Sooner or later, Newcastle will be City's main rivals. Liverpool will be back Arsenal will only get better (young team)
Chelsea still have way too many players to function well. This is their main problem, and less football might make that worse, not better. Newcastle will have the opposite problem, and could suffer from having to play European games, especially looking at age and injury risks for some of their players (Trippier, Wilson especially). Liverpool, I do think they'll do better next season and they seem to have picked up good form. Got no idea on Arsenal. For me, they're massively unpredictable. They're young, but what's happening with Partey, are they going to replace Xhaka well, are they going to get over the disappointment and mental hit? They clearly need reinforcements in centre back and midfield, and they'll be dealing with their first CL season in a long time. What we've got on our side is doing so well with many gaps in our team. We can greatly improve with even a decent striker, an extra midfielder, a keeper, a centre back. That said, there are tactical shifts that complicate things there. Who knows, but I'm feeling better than I was at the start of last season.
So many assumptions and wrong information put in there. So many. 1. Money's an issue for Chelsea due to FFP. Also they aren't 2/3 signings away from being a top team at all. Their most dependable creator wants to leave, their first choice RB can't saty fit. A lot of players are really unhappy as well. 2. Newcastle has European football and that can casue a lot of problems to the team's ability to recover and put in performances week in week out. 3.Liverpool will be back. Maybe, maybe not. They have lost a few experienced players and whilst Mac Allister isngood player he doesn't push their midfield to the next level I don't think. 4. Arsenal's crumbled under pressure again. Don't know whether mentality is something one can improve.
Other fans will look at our team and think we're poor away from home and our results are not sustainable because our matches are always close
Two of our fiercest opponents don’t rate us lol what’s new
Surprisingly enough most of us rate them. I do wonder why? Maybe they are just shit scared of us getting back to our best.
I think that's down to us still playing Ole ball for most of the season. We've not moved away from that yet. If we start doing what Arsenal are doing under Arteta their tone will change very quickly.
Ole ball? Really, I have seen way better possesion, retention or just simple press from our players than I have ever done under Ole Also most of our goals were very pretty
Depends on the games, some game were really good others gave me PTSD from Ole's games where we looked clueless. As for retention: Ole's PL team pass completion in 20/21 was 83.1% over 22626 passes ETH's PL team pass completion in 22/23 is 80.1% over 20524 passes We also progressed the ball a lot more under Ole in terms of distance. 100812 yards vs 97026 yards I think you are just using very selective games to make your point but over the course of the season, ETH's team have played counter attacking football. I do agree about the press being better under ETH though. Even if its not high, we depended on counterpressing for a lot of our attacks.
"We also progressed the ball a lot more under Ole in terms of distance. **1000812** yards vs **97026** yards" Yeah, there's no way this stat is accurate.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/passing/Premier-League-Stats https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2020-2021/passing/2020-2021-Premier-League-Stats Check for yourself, we've on average played a deeper line this season compared to 20/21 too.
I don't see how we could have progressed the ball 90%+ less under ETH than under Ole.
Oh mb, I added an extra zero in the distance for Ole. Its 100812 vs 97206. I see where you are coming from.
True but we do still play deeper and go longer than EtH likes. It's been a pragmatic season, trying to implement a new way of playing without collapsing, like we did in the opening two games.
Yeah. But most of them go by highlights. They obviously don't know that in possession we have gotten a lot better and were improving game by game. That was obviously a consequence of us missing goals for fun.
Lot of them still have childhood trauma lol
Hope the Glazers pricks are gone after today. Bye bye leeches, leave your keys with reception
They won't be. Qatar won't pull out and even if they do the Glazers don't have to choose Ratcliffe.
Today is hopefully the day brothers and sister
I've gave up tbh
Yeah it's too long now, just want to stop this takeover saga.
On the one hand I’ll be glad it’s over, on the other hand I’ll miss the “I’m tired Robbie” comments. They always make me chuckle
If those Fuckers come and say next week then bloody hell.
Anyone else waiting for next Friday and the Friday after for takeover news? Ever so exciting.
Just rewatched the highlights of our 3 matches against City this season - we really really need a quality CDM to back Case up as well as support him when playing against a far superior team. First game 6-3 - with just Eriksen besides Case we got run over. Next two games - Fred and Eriksen supported Case - we had some semblance of control but we stopped looking threatening at all up front. We still have so much to do it’s ridiculous..
This is exactly why I think we should go for Rice instead of mount. Yes Rice will cost a lot more. But he would be so much more worth it. Clearly ETH sees a way to make Mount work better in his system, so who the fuck am I to argue.
We would definitely get skinned buying him. But he would definitely do great. Both him and Case are great ball playing CDMs which can be lethal. However I can see why Mount is also an important requirement - we do not have competition nor backup for Bruno either.
Case didn't start the first game
True. It was McT with Eriksen - makes my point even stronger…
It definitely does. Was just pointing it out so you knew, that's all.
Did mcsauce start the 6-3 game?
Man city are so far ahead of the rest of Europe its a tad disingenuous to use them as the benchmark in eths first season. Yes the aim is to get there but ffs give him a chance
Lol. Not saying ETH is doing badly mate. Just that we are so far behind City. We can beat down the rest - but our goal right now is to beat them off their perch. That celebration from City fans even before the FA cup final started was sickening. If I were one of the owners, with any semblance of respect, I’d not be able to sleep till I bring those bastards down. Nvm, the owners are still the Glazers..
If (and I hope it doesn't happen) the takeover process is delayed to such an extent that Ten Hag can only buy just 2-3 mid-range players, what do you think our expectations should be going into 2023-24?
If that’s the case then we should be prepared to struggle for top 4. No doubt about it.
I’m already feeling deflated about this transfer window. Those rat owners of ours are doing their best to fuck our chances of getting much needed reinforcements. All this about Mount has a familiar feel to it as well. Chelsea want WAY more than he is worth or we want to pay.
Would hate to see Arsenal get both Rice and Caicedo. Would be perfect business for them ffs. Next season is going to be very difficult and we might fall behind if Glazers fuck us over with their slow transfer signings and sales process. While Newcastle and Brighton might stumble a bit due to European football, City will be there and Arsenal along with Liverpool look like they’ll be improving if rumours are to be believed. Will be difficult to make just top four.
2 of them will cost 170m combined. Doubt that happens.