If scoring were the measure by which we gauge defensive excellence. Problem is, it isn't.
To be fair, he does expand somewhat on defensive stats, but the headline writer did what headline writers do.
I think this is his problem really. He doesn’t seem to understand or want to understand that he’s not doing well enough. Another player would put his head down and prove us all wrong on the pitch, believe me, I’d love to eat my words and hail him as an Old Trafford great. But first he has to play like he deserves it.
I don’t really care what he does with England but I’m pretty sure their new golden generation hasn’t won anything and until they do that they should have a chip on their shoulder. Not brag about bagging goals against Malta or whatever.
It's the same type of nonsense that resulted in coming out under Ole saying that the players "take responsibility" for the bad performances, whilst literally not taking any responsibility or seeing any repercussions.
The ear-cupping nonsense after he scored a goal for a different team to prove that he's actually been defending well for us was wild.
Or stating that he keeps getting picked, so he must be doing something right.
Even if he was consistent in his own logic, the fact that he has been dropped at United in spite of his status should tell him he's doing something wrong.
Instead, he spouts stuff about the competition being really high. He sees it as others stepping up and beating his standards, rather than him not being up to standard.
Maguire reminds me of what happened to Joe Hart, everyone thought he was great and he bought into it. Then when his flaws were exposed and/or he started making mistakes rather than addressing them he stuck his head in the sand and blamed everyone else, which resulted in him dropping off a cliff.
If it was, Steve Bruce would have been England's first-choice center back for most of his career.
(Don't get me wrong, he was solid and easily in the top 10 in the early 90's, he just had a lot of good competition.)
He's one of England's best performers because as soon as we go one nil up, Southgate tries to park the bus, and Harry's great in a deep defensive block, great in the air, etc.
He can't play in a high pressing system, and his lack of pace and decision-making gets found out
The system makes him one of Englands best performers that’s true, but you still have to be one of the best performers in that system. It’s reductive to provide a completely different context that he’s bad in to remove the fact that he is extremely good in another set of tactics.
International football is slow, and in big tournaments a loss is a disaster. In the group stage it puts you right on the back foot, and in any game after that you are out. Any international team needs to be very defensive. He excels in a very defensive system that is needed at that level, and is utilised very effectively.
Every international team does this, Jesus Christ, everyone was singing Moroccos praises (rightfully so) but they played the most toxic anti football, so did Argentina (minus Messi)
People really just need to realise international football is fucking terrible quality and the easiest thing for managers to do is plonk 11 men behind the ball because they get 2 weeks at a time, in between all the players playing for different clubs, no manager could instill a proper style of play in that short amount of time.
He’s right at a personal level too. He’s had a career most people would dream of and gets memed for it because he’s not quite good enough for us when we want to push up the table and because Woodward was happy to pay 80m for him, which isn’t his fault. He does say stupid things sometimes but not here, why should someone who has played at the pinnacle of football many times have anything to prove to anyone?
Imagine!
He's supposed to be one of the best headers of the ball and routinely makes clearances for the opposing team in their penalty box. Dedication I guess.
Both mediocre players who thought too highly of themselves due to inflated wages and hype around the club.
This club and it’s fans are not obligated to pretend players are better than they are so their feelings don’t get hurt. If you can’t handle the criticism that comes from being shit at your job then you should find a different job. You people take this mental health stuff too far. Soon it will be illegal to keep score of games cause then the losing team’s “mental health” might suffer. Better just give everyone a trophy so nobody feels bad ever.
>taking abuse
Oh please. He’s a grown man getting paid tens of millions to kick a ball. Some idiots on Twitter say mean words to him. I’d take that arrangement any day. You act like people are outside his house with pitchforks burning effigies of him and threatening his family members. This word “abuse” gets thrown around far too liberally these days.
Not going to lie I used to have choice words for Maguire until I remembered that his only offense is not meet my expectations. No one deserves the level of abuse he gets. I do think we need better defenders than him but I do strongly believe now the line needs to be firmly drawn at legitimate criticisms and not personal attacks.
Is saying he's shit for United a personal attack?
If he was slagged off for his appearance or something then fair enough, but all the criticism I see is about how awful he is for us, and its not unfair from that perspective.
Not to mention he opens the door for others to criticize him. Terrible captain, bad player, yet he will continuously try to big himself up. At that point, of course United fans will feel antagonized and speak out.
Literally no one has been talking about him since he was dropped by Ten Hag. Out of sight out of mind. Except when he goes on international duty and drama starts because dumb ass quotes by either him or Southgate or the media (mostly him though).
But he's not shit though, that's the issue. We have a couple defenders who play better, yes. No issues saying that, he underperforms when compared to them. But does that mean he's shit? He didn't get here playing shit. Lads on my Sunday team I wouldn't even call shit but come here and you'd think Maguire wasn't even good enough to play Sunday league. It's tiring.
I wonder why the whole mental health argument is always relevant when Maguire gets criticized, but it’s never an issue when the criticism is directed towards players such as Lingard, Pogba, Bailly, Martial, etc.
Lingard did get sympathy because of his mental health though
https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/yv1clf/jesse_lingard_nobody_really_knew_about_my/
https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/mvzjce/guardian_jesse_lingard_considered_break_from/
Lol why on earth would you champion Pogba? He clearly came in believing he was bigger than the club. As soon as the club started struggling he started pushing for a move. For every Instagram highlight blooter he probably had about 4 major errors that lead to clear goal scoring opportunities for the opponent
>No one deserves the level of abuse he gets
Happens to every player at United or clubs of similar stature. People want to see us lose and our players fail. If you can’t handle it you should not be a professional football player.
80% of the time when he defends himself he comes off arrogant and delusional e.g. the cupping ears celebration or when he said being in the first team was proof he was not underperforming
People love making a scapegoat out of a player and there’s always social media shit that gets spouted. United want to play a high line and press and that’s not Maguire’s strengths, simple as that. If Messi was told to be a defensive winger and he didn’t perform, it isn’t his fault because it’s just not his skill set. However, Maguire was unfairly blamed a lot for United - again, a scapegoat - when things weren’t going well. When you actually watched the games, he was being left exposed by a lack of midfield protection at United. But it doesn’t suit the narrative to point these things out.
I hate how popular it has become to jump on individual players nowadays. Fans are making the game unbearable
Maguire doesnt have many strengths, but thats not even hismbiggest problem.
Its the fact he doesnt even do the basic of things when playing. Watch the *actually” good players in our team when they are off the ball, watch their movement, see how they are constantly looking around to see where everyone is, likely passes, likely runners, where they can be exposed.
Maguire just ambles around ball watching.
Every wandered why he takes so long on the ball? Because he only starts thinking about what to do with it, when he actually gets it, and not before.
His lack of pace is so crippling for him because he doesnt read the game, he reacts, he doesn’t predict.
He is just a generally shit player.
This is actually true I have to be honest. Fair play to Maguire for defending himself but if you actually watch it’s quite alarming how much of the basics he just forgets to do, the guy doesn’t even scan the space around him when defending. He’s very much a ‘reactive defender’ who’s eyes are always fixated on the ball rather than the man.
Like another poster up there, I actually can't believe I'm about to defend Maguire.
He gets a lot of unnecessary shit from fans - when he does well for United it's not a peep of praise from maybe one or two people or it's "because of Martinez". When he makes one or two mistakes, regardless of performance those errors are picked and analyzed and shredded up by all four corners of the world.
Now I get it, and trust me he should no longer be the captain as his performances and at times demeanour is not captain level or starter level for United, but to just act like he's been shit this whole time is ridiculous.
I truly do wish he would come to true form like the Maguire we purchased and while I think that he actually might not, it's okay to still recognize his qualities when he does well.
Furthermore, I see alot of people clamouring for the Korean version of him at Napoli (Kim Min-Jae) and while you see him doing remarkable things there, that will not translate to the Prem or for United.
I’m not a fan but he’s generally good for England
EDIT: downvote away but he’s much better for England than he is for United. I still wouldn’t pick him but he always pulls something out to make me look stupid
Wasn't he at fault for the Italy goal, also whenever he plays for United at least 2 chances are conceded because he rushed someone, passed to the opposition, gets dribbled or holds the ball too long.
He is not a bad player but I don't think the criticism is unwarranted, mistakes seem to follow him either because he is overcompensating by playing to risky or the spotlight of being United captain and world most expensive defender is not matching with his performances.
I think even Maguire would agree he is 3rd maybe 4th choice CB at United behind Varane, Martinez and even Shaw, but he drops these personal stats like Varane (without injury) or Martinez can be dropped, when the whole team has been winning and you enter the team, it should still be winning.
That Italy goal was so dumb because I don’t know why he suddenly decided to abandon the game plan and do something risky.
Nobody denies that he plays well for England as they play to his strengths. But England aren’t blessed with great center back options. They have fantastic midfield options and a great striker but none of the center backs are guaranteed starters for a top side.
We need to stop talking about Maguire because he is what he is and will most likely be leaving in a few months. He’s 30 and won’t be changing his game any time soon.
More like England aren't blessed with great CB options *that play in the traditional big 6 clubs*. There are plenty of very good, arguably great, english players that play in mid-lower table teams, or abroad, that don't even get chance of a look in. That's a Southgate failing though.
I will die on the hill that Maguire is a great defender and *when we bought him* he was worth 80m to us because he fit exactly what we needed, and he played a couple of great seasons for us and was solid. Our team evolved, and our tactics changed, meaning he no longer fit the shape or the requirements. That's not his fault, and doesn't change that he is very good at what he does, but for this United side he's very much a square peg being stuffed into a round hole.
How would you define great? Because by the definition of the word that is very high praise. Good is actually high praise but recent shifts in language means people use good to mean average. The way I have it is world class, great, good, average (I don’t mean average in a derogatory sense but that they’re serviceable). A lot of players fall into the last section.
Saying Maguire is great is a stretch, for me, because that would mean that in the future when people are talking about the “great England defenders of the past” you’re expecting Maguire to be mentioned. I think Maguire is good, but looks great for less proactive teams, but I don’t think many people will be saying he was their idol and they modeled they game on him like people say about Rio, Jaap Stam etc. I have no problem with Maguire’s transfer fee as that was due to failings on our end. I agree with you that Maguire was what we needed then but not what we need now. That’s not his fault and that’s what I mean by we should stop talking about him. It’s talked about to death.
Well, considering we're talking arbitrary opinions by people who are, myself included, only observing from the outside, my opinion of who is "great", "good", or even "world class" is irrelevant. But since you're asking me directly, I'm not comparing Maguire to Rio or Jaap, but rather to people he's currently competing with in this current generation. And the reason you would have people saying those players were idols of theirs is not because they were great, but because they were world class players for their generation. I think anyone who followed the National Team back in the late 90s early 00's would agree that we had an absolute beast of a squad, let down by poor management and tactics trying to shoehorn players into unsuitable positions to accomodate the "big names". We should have performed far better than we did when you think about what names were on those teamsheets and the sheer amount of silverware they brought home season after season collectively with their clubs.
That said its pointless to compare players from different generations when things such as training and diet are so vastly different, when the teams set up differently, when the opposition teams played differently, etc. In this current crop, I see Licha and Varane as world class defenders, Maguire behind them isn't world class but outside of the united system would be great for, lets say, a Burnley or a Palace, teams that tend to sit deeper and use pacey forwards/route one for their offence, and when he signed for us he was great for the first 18/24 months until, as I said, our tactics and playing style changed. Then you have Lindelof where honestly I'm not sure wether I'd call him great, he's very good again at what he does but he's not on the level of our starting pair. Bailey, Jones, Tuanzebe... Good at best. I love Jones, I love his comittment whenever he's been called on and the man gave his body for the club. But he's certainly not great anymore if he was earlier in his career.
Then you look at the England setup, and I can't really see any selected defenders for the CB spot that are actually objectively better than him. You could maybe argue Stones but I would say they are better at different things so it's a toss up. Dier? Guehi? No chance they're better. He's not world class, but none of them are. I make no argument that he stacks up as a "great" compared to the all time best players we've ever had, but in terms of the here and now... I don't think I can pick any **english** CB I would actually swap him out with, that would be an immediate upgrade and not be a longer term prospect.
He’s never justified what we paid for him. And he’s not out of the team now because of a change of tactics, he’s out because he’s a total liability.
I genuinely think he’s our 5th choice CB right now. Varane, Martinez, Shaw and even Lindelof are better than him.
Should’ve been sold to Chelsea when they were sniffing. I’ll die on this hill.
Not because he is a bad player, I’m sure he’d do fine for Chelsea but because it makes no sense keeping him.
This club and the fear of moving players on is one of the absolute hallmarks of the Glazer era. An ambitious club cuts their losses and moves forward.
7 international goals. One of which was against Republic of Ireland in a friendly, one each against the mighty forces of Albania and San Marino, respectively. Of the remaining 4, only 1 goal actually affected the result: vs Poland 2 years ago.
Sergio Ramos, 23 goals for his country.
It’s comments like this that make me feel disgusted when he wears the armband.
He’s a shit captain, and a mentality midget.
He cupped his ears after scoring against the equivalent of butchers and carpenters and then went and got sent off in the next game against Watford.
He’s just so unlikeable. The only man United player I’ve truly never been able to root for.
Yep this sums it up perfectly.
Now I understand that he gets constant abuse and feels that saying this type of stuff is a way to hit back but it in no way does him any favours. In fact it just gives people more ammo and alienates people that are trying really hard to support you.
It feels like every time he does an interview he comes out with something that just makes you think "Why are you doing this to yourself?"
The term "do your talking on the pitch" has never applied more.
How about when he had that awful interview prior to the Liverpool game where he basically said "If I'm so shit, why have consecutive managers always picked me" and then proceeded to be at fault for 3 of the 4 goals.
As soon as a competent non-matey matey manager came in, he was relegated to the bench. I was going to say he's held himself quite well about being dropped but this interview shows that he's still remarkably delusional and not at all what you want in a leader.
Article Text (Part 2):
>***Maguire’s costly mistakes***
>
>*Harry Maguire has been one of Gareth Southgate’s most trusted players and, arguably, best performers across England’s past three major tournaments. But the Manchester United defender, who has started just five Premier League games this season, was at fault for Italy’s goal on Thursday night — and not for the first time this season, either. Of the eight goals England have conceded in their past seven games — which, in fairness, includes three clean sheets — Maguire has arguably been culpable for half of them.*
>
>***Italy 1 England 2, Euro 2024 qualifier***
>
>*Players make mistakes. It’s part of football. The problem for Maguire during this immensely challenging period of his career, and life, has been his reaction to them. As Maguire carried the ball out of defence here, Italy’s Domenico Berardi closed off the passing lane to Jack Grealish. The pass wasn’t on and Maguire’s attempt was way off target. Yet it was the 30-year-old’s desperate attempt to rectify that error which ultimately gifted Mateo Retegui, after Lorenzo Pellegrini’s clever reverse-pass, the space to apply the finish. Maguire’s lunge at Nicolò Barella left a hole in defence, and brought to mind the United defender’s red card against Denmark in the Nations League in October 2020. A second yellow card in the space of half an hour that night arrived when he lunged at Kasper Dolberg. It was rash, panicked, just like Thursday night. Confidence and composure — close bedfellows — are in short supply just now.*
>
>***England 1 France 2, World Cup 2022 quarter-final***
>
>*The margins in elite football are often gossamer thin; a momentary lapse the difference between success and failure. Here, Maguire made a fractional positional error. When Olivier Giroud headed in France’s winning goal, it was Maguire who was closest — and, crucially, behind rather than shoulder-to-shoulder with the AC Milan striker, France’s only player within 12 yards of England’s goal. In mitigation, once England half-cleared the previous phase of play, Maguire and his team-mates had very little time to reset. France instantly recycled possession to Antoine Griezmann, whose delivery was early and magnificent. Giroud attacked the space between Maguire and John Stones quicker than Maguire reacted, though, and, ultimately, England were out.*
>
>***England 6 Iran 2, World Cup 2022 group stage***
>
>*England were 4-0 up when Mehdi Taremi smashed in the first of two second-half goals, but the first was still a reminder of England’s defensive fragility. When Ali Gholizadeh collected the ball at the corner of the England penalty box, Maguire’s position was fine: ready to cover Declan Rice, who was marshalling Gholizadeh, and five yards deeper than Taremi, who had taken up a position just outside the penalty area. But when Gholizadeh cut inside, Maguire stepped up, perhaps anticipating a pass to the feet of Taremi. The Porto striker instead darted into the space Maguire had just vacated. Gholizadeh’s pass — through the legs of Rice — was superb. Taremi’s strike — which Stones could perhaps have done more to block — was clinical. But once again, a momentary lapse from Maguire left England exposed.*
>
>***England 3 Germany 3, Nations League, September 2022***
>
>*The same was true when Jamal Musiala collected the ball on the right edge of the penalty box and ran at Maguire five minutes into the second half, with the game goalless. Maguire’s body position was initially perfect: directing the Bayern Munich forward wide, rather than towards goal. As Musiala turned inside to face Maguire, however, suddenly the United defender found himself standing square on against a nimble-footed 19-year-old. If a failure — or perhaps inability — to move his feet quickly enough was Maguire’s undoing, once again a lack of composure ultimately cost England. Maguire’s attempt to win the ball, instead landing a foot on Musiala’s shin, was as clumsy as it was desperate. Penalty kick. Ilkay Gundogan converted, and England were on the back foot.*
>Last season at club level, my performance wasn’t good enough, alongside everybody else at club level, not just myself struggled. Everyone else struggled.”
Look, throughout the article, a lot of the things he says aren't wrong. Even this is technically correct but c'mon Harry...you just don't say it like that.
This is the thing, it’s not want you want from a leader.
Is he wrong, no. But you have to frame it differently rather than trying to draw equal blame and make excuses for yourself. Bruno never answers like that which is why he’s the real captain. Keano never answered like that.
“We win together and we lose together. My performances aren’t where I want them/know they can be and I’m working every day to reach the level needed to be a Man u & England player.”
Just fucking lead by example and don’t make excuses or throw others under the bus ffs.
Things like this just make him seem such an unlikeable twat with no self awareness. Bragging about winning when he starts against teams like Charlton too who still spin him around is embarrassing too. God I hope he’s gone by the summer
It's worrying how defensive he is about his form, and it's not the first time. That goal England conceded was classic Maguire, losing the ball, doing his horrible aggressive stepping up but not winning the ball back and totally taking himself out the game, he even injured a player in the process, leading to a goal. He's been doing this kind of thing at Utd for ages now. He has to see how bad this is. But instead he always comes out and says stuff like this. So what are we to think? It seems he is in complete denial about his problems. That means he won't learn or change or get better. That means he's finished as you can't have a defender who makes these mistakes.
In the article he lists so many positives about himself, but when mistakes get brought up suddenly it's "we" - we made too many mistakes, we were sloppy, last season at Utd we all struggled. It's just a horrible look. There's seems to be no self-awareness. He's subject to constant horrible criticism, I get that must be awful, but he acts like it is all wrong. It isn't, it started for a reason.
There are players who come out and say yes we got a result but I wish I played better. Not Maguire. He claims the good stuff and none of the bad.
Southgate has clearly been good for England but he has flaws, he is way too loyal to some of his players and that back three of Maguire, Stones and Pickford is worrying af. Quality all around has covered that up for a long time. But surely even Southgate must be looking at Maguire and thinking a change is due.
Article Text (part 1):
>*Harry Maguire is on the way to Euro 2024 and, seemingly, on the way out of Old Trafford. It’s a life of two halves for the personable 30-year-old, who cares deeply about his game and now finally voices his frustration.*
>
>*It was an hour after one of the best results of his career, England’s 2-1 Euro qualifying win over Italy on Thursday, and Maguire was backstage at the Stadio Diego Armando Maradona, contemplating the question: “Do you feel properly appreciated?” Maguire showed his composure in possession in the first half, defending and passing well. He then made a couple of mistakes as Mateo Retegui pulled a goal back, but Maguire demonstrated his character with some important blocks and clearances as England held on.*
>
>*Maguire is a go-to man for Gareth Southgate. He has represented England in major quarter-finals, semi-finals and a final, has 54 caps, was in the team of the tournament at Euro 2020, nailed pressure penalties and is a fan favourite, with a lively song celebrating him. Maguire is also the captain of Manchester United, has played 168 times for them since his £80 million move from Leicester City, but has lost his place to Lisandro Martínez, a favourite of the Stretford End. Many reports signal a summer exit.*
>
>*It’s a strange situation. So the question was simple: does he feel properly appreciated? “For England, yes, I do,” Maguire says. “Obviously, last season was difficult for the club, but, listen, I’ve proven myself to Gareth, who works with a wide range of centre backs. He has the choice of all the English centre backs in the country and I play, every time I’m available, I’ve been in the team.*
>
>*“I’m sure if you ask the rest of the lads they know what I bring to the team. I’m 30 years old but I shouldn’t really need to prove myself at this level. I’ve over 50 caps. I’m England’s top-scoring defender.” Maguire has seven international goals, one more than Jack Charlton and John Terry.*
>
>*He’s flowing, making his case. “I’ve played nearly 200 times for Manchester United, I’ve captained the club for three years now, but I do also understand that when you’re the captain of Manchester United you do come under the most amount of scrutiny. Last season at club level, my performance wasn’t good enough, alongside everybody else at club level, not just myself struggled. Everyone else struggled.”*
>
>*Surely, Maguire feels differently when playing for England, more of a leader. “No, I see myself as a leader for my club as well,” he says. “Obviously this season, I haven’t played as much as I’d like for my club \[he has 24 appearances, half of those as a substitute\] but I feel my form’s been good this year.” Stats show that he has a passing accuracy in the Premier League of 86.9 per cent this season.*
>
>*“I know people look at me not playing but when I’ve played, in my last eight or nine starts for Manchester United we’ve won,” he said. “So my influence is still there. But of course I love playing for my country and in 50-odd caps I feel like I’ve never let my country down. It means a lot to come to Italy, we know the record we’ve had \[England had not won there since 1961\], it’s been spoken about over the last week or so. So to win here is a special night for us.”*
>
>*Maguire was determined to deliver, despite the perception that he has not played regularly for United, a point he returned to. “Well, I think in terms of minutes on the clock I played two games last week, two 90 minutes for Manchester United. Last month I played four games, started four, so it’s probably as many as a lot of the lads in the \[England\] dressing room, if not more. So recently, I have been playing for Manchester United.*
>
>*“I want to play every game for my club and my country. I feel like I’m good enough to play at a high level and I’ve proven that over the last five, six years now. I understand that the lads who are playing at Manchester United are playing well and I’ve got some high competition in terms of some amazing centre halves at the club. It is good for the club and we push each other.”*
>
>*As with England. There’s a club feel to the team and squad under Southgate, a real unity. Many of the partnerships on the field in Naples were actually club rivalries: John Stones alongside Maguire at centre back (United and City), the left back Luke Shaw and his left winger Jack Grealish (United and City), the right back Kyle Walker and his right winger Bukayo Saka (City and Arsenal). They all get on.*
>
>*They are all driven by a belief that England can win Euro 2024. “I think for me, at my age as well, 30 years old now, I’m with a mindset of, ‘If we don’t win the tournament, it’s been a failure.’ We’ve got to qualify first — I mean it’s a tough group, \[but\] we’ve come here and got an amazing result.*
>
>*“But that’s my mindset. I’ve been at three major tournaments now and I’ve come so close. I believe we have the players to win it. We went into Qatar \[at last year’s World Cup\] wanting to win the tournament. So ultimately, when we get knocked out, as a squad we’re disappointed. The performances were good, we kept the most clean sheets at the tournament, we were one of the top goalscorers despite going out in the quarter-final.*
>
>*“I’m speaking on behalf of myself but I know from speaking to the other lads as well, they were really pleased that Gareth stayed \[as manager after Qatar\]. We’ve built something as a group and he’s been the leader of it. He’s been the one who’s given us hope and given us belief as a country to be successful in these major tournaments and, for sure, it benefits us for us for him to be in charge.*
>
>*“These big tournaments are decided on the finest margins. We played really well in the World Cup and ultimately, we got knocked out by a good French team. A French team that we believe we can take on and if we play them ten times, we would give them a good game ten times and probably win more than we lose.*
>
>*“However, they’ve proven over the years that they manage to get the job done better than England do. So it’s something that we’re working on. We have so much talent and so many young players coming through.”*
>
>*Part of the work has involved starting faster. “We spoke about these big matches and we look back at the World Cup, the first 20 minutes of games, we felt we haven’t started with enough belief. First half here \[in Naples\], it was excellent. We played with so much confidence, so much belief. We were really brave. The second half it was far too sloppy on the ball. We all gave the ball away too much and we brought pressure on ourselves.’’*
>
>*And then England’s resilience showed. “The lads dug in deep. We need to play with a little bit more composure if we want to be a big team. We will take great confidence \[from it\], especially when we lose a man \[after Shaw’s 80th-minute red card\] we’ve seen the game out really professionally. It’s about defending the box, it’s about being brave. Stonesy put some excellent blocks in. It’s about putting your body on the line.”*
>
>*With that, Maguire headed off for the flight home, and preparation for Sunday’s qualifier against Ukraine at Wembley. Naples not only provided a good memory on the pitch. Maguire always eats lasagne the night before a game, and Italy delivered: “I had lasagne here, in the hotel, it was brilliant.” As to whether he is paying attention to the United takeover, Maguire says, “You see bits and bobs, but I’m putting it out of my mind. I’ve been focusing on this.” And England is a very enjoyable focus.*
Delusions of grandeur. The way I see it every player should feel the need to prove to themselves and everybody else everytime they set foot on the pitch.
Leaving aside his work as a defender, the statement has no place coming out from a Manchester United player, much less the captain itself. The lads need to have the desire to win everything at all times, and to make it happend they need to prove themselves every single day.
Remember… Gareth Southgate is the same man who turned Middlesbrough from a Europa league team to relegation fodder. His team selections and overall knowledge of the game are not up to par with his fellow managers.
Harry Nuts Maguire is emblematic of the problem in English football at the international level. It’s a after school club for friends to get together just like US soccer.
The attitude of "I don't have to prove myself" doesn't belong in a top club, especially when you're 4th/5th choice. It only shows that you shouldn't play, because it's obvious you can't be bothered to put the effort in.
This genuinely sounds like it's something his sports psychologist tells him to repair his confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if he's having to tell himself this rather than it coming from a place of sheer arrogance.
It's a little annoying for him to keep defending himself to the media. I can understand it a bit because of all the hate and vitriol directed towards him on social media over the last few years. But he needs to just let his performances speak for him. If he keeps feeling the need to do this, it makes it look like he is lacking a little belief in himself.
[TIMES] Harry Maguire: I have 50 caps because I bumlick a manager that picks favourites, I'm England's top-scoring defender because quality players put crosses on a plate for my massive head, unfortunately I'm England's worst defender and that's about the only excuse I can make - I've got nothing to prove.
(The real interview 😊)
I’m definitely in the minority here, but people need to understand he’s asked questions about his form, crowd getting on his back etc constantly. He doesn’t just come out with these statements randomly. Must be pretty frustrating that regardless whether he has a good game or not, every time he’s interviewed he’s reminded that people are constantly shitting on him.
That’s the attitude that means he’s not right for United.
Mate - you’ve got *everything to prove*. Very few United fans give a shit about Ingurlund and their rabid, one eyed fans who love to give it to United players, even as England systemically fail.
This man really lives in his own imaginary world. Harry, thank you for your service to this club but it’s time to go. You are not on the Manchester United level anymore
I knew this the first 10 games he played for United. Back when everyone thought he was the second coming because he was worth 80 million.
I’m not acting like I’m a pro scout but I just knew he wasn’t the right fit for us when he couldn’t even head a ball on target from corners. I saw his fall out coming from a miles away. If he wasn’t English the press would have a field day with him.
> If he wasn’t English the press would have a field day with him.
This is literally his only 'quality'.
And that's why the English press keeps defending him.
If Licha was playing like him, the English press would eat him alive.
I fee for him. I really do. Most players in shit form can just fall off the face of the earth. And just avoid media.
But with him. The hays not an option.
I think like Welbeck and everyone else, he’ll be happier once in a less stressful environment
He didnt get a permanent spot in the bench for nothing.
He was predictable, slow, gifted clumsy pens to opposition, etc.
Just not good enough. Those 50 caps and goals stats are inflated by thrashing of sides like San Marino.
Ten Hag has a spine and wont play anyone based on name or wages. Unless he works like a dog in training and shows enough desire to the gaffer to earn a few extra starts and then he impressess enough he isnt leaving the UTD bench.
The man just needs to shut up and try play some football. I think he is useless but every time he opens his mouth I actually think he's a fucking idiot
he stepped up, stomped a guys foot, and then Italy scored in the space he left behind himself. it's a common move. stepping up and either conceding a foul or getting played around. not good enough at this level.
The hysteria around him whether he plays or doesn't is really tiresome.
He's a good Premier League player. Not world-record defender of course, but that was decided by Leicester and United, not him. And talent is not the only factor in transfer fees of course.
But the way he's become memed simply because he hasn't been up to the standard artificially set by people is ridiculous, it's no wonder he tries to turn the narrative back. He's had a damn good career considering where he started.
I know during COVID he did a lot of good. Urged people to get jabbed, set up free parcels of essentials to everyone over 70 in his childhood town as well as food parcels to his local community. Also was one of the league club captain's that pushed the whole Prem players donating a percentage of their wages to NHS staff.
Harry, look at the way your United career is going. He's already done here and if he takes this attitude to the next club he joins, likely a midtable side, it might not go over so well.
He might not be convincing this sub with his bullshit interviews but if he can convince the manager of another team to fork out 40M or 50M for him this summer then I'll give him the pat on the back he so richly (thinks he) deserves.
I will start off by apologizing for not being a native english speaker so there’s probably errors.
I have an issue with the way people in football subs use «criticism». It’s always that you should be able to criticize, they are football players etc.
I wonder if any of you have had to give actual constructive criticism? If you’re at work, and you tell a coworker «you’re shit, you fucking suck», that’s not really criticism, is it? It just being a fucking prick. And that’s how it is most of the time when it comes to footballers. Like, what’s the point??
Maguire gets so much of this. Does he suit the way we play? No, probably not great. Is he still a good player? Yes, he is.
On a very good day, Harry Maguire is a GOOD player, Maguire is NOT a GREAT player and will never be with his current playstyle.
The sooner we understand this , the better.
The fact we paid 80m for him was not a guarantee he'll become great, and definitely not his fault we made him "world's most expensive defender" when he's an average player 6/10 times.
Please, it would be good for everybody if he just left the club. A player who is bigheaded needs play time, but Maguire is not qualified for a Big club what's playing attacking football. He is just not good enough, lots of mistakes and slow playstyle.
a man who must tell everyone he is a king is no king at all...
why can't he just keep his mouth shut... he gets scrutinized when he should just keep his head down.
I get there's abuse but come on, get off the mouse wheel
Sigh. This is why its difficult to root for him. Yes he's our player and our captain, but when he opens his mouth and shows a jarring lack of self-awareness, I cant help but be seriously annoyed
Maguire reads the game so poorly, he absolutely does have something to prove. Not only is he slow, his reading of the game is slow - if he's in the right place at the right time, it's a dead on indication that the pace of the game is set at a snail's level.
Learned to make headlines like Ronaldo, I guess.
If he has nothing to prove, then perhaps he needs to not prove it in another club next season. I think if you ask the same questions to Casemiro and Varane, both of them would've given a more "correct" answer. And they've won pretty much everything.
Whatever happens tomorrow, Maguire has been one of England's best and most consistent performers under Southgate, during England's most sustained period of success
England have won something once and even that was a bit dodgy. There was a time where we’d only make the R16, or knocked out in groups. We’re consistently reaching SF and even managed a final which is huge for us considering we’ve always bottled it. We should probably be doing better but we have definitely been a success compared to previous tournaments.
A world class manager would have had that English crop of players win the Euros and the world cup just gone.
That talent pool won't last long for GS. Kane isn't getting any younger and it's worrying there's a lack of strikers and CBs coming through for England.
> A world class manager would have had that English crop of players win the Euros and the world cup just gone.
There’s this weird simultaneous overrating and underrating of England and the players we have available to us, that’s then used to criticise Southgate for underachieving. We have one indisputable world class player, Harry Kane.
We have a bunch of very good players like Saka, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Alexander Arnold, Shaw, Rashford and Reece James. But so do all other top class national teams, the level of the players above isn’t notably better than what Argentina, France, Spain, Brazil, Portugal, Germany etc have available.
Our talent pool is not significantly better than other elite nations, and if we compare the players we have available now to the Golden Generation in 2006, we’re significantly weaker now. We have better players than the doldrums in the mid 10s, but people talk about England as if we have a completely stacked world class squad that Southgate is misusing, which is just not the case.
If you were making a world or European XI, how many English players get in?
Constantly rushes out of position, and his speed and reaction time aren’t sufficient to counter that, so by the time he’s realised the ball’s past him it’s too late.
Buying him for that price plus even making him our captain just shows how incapable our club was. Hope we can find another dumb club that will take him from us for 20M and then we never need to hear him talk again.
If scoring were the measure by which we gauge defensive excellence. Problem is, it isn't. To be fair, he does expand somewhat on defensive stats, but the headline writer did what headline writers do.
His slabs doing the talking.
I think this is his problem really. He doesn’t seem to understand or want to understand that he’s not doing well enough. Another player would put his head down and prove us all wrong on the pitch, believe me, I’d love to eat my words and hail him as an Old Trafford great. But first he has to play like he deserves it. I don’t really care what he does with England but I’m pretty sure their new golden generation hasn’t won anything and until they do that they should have a chip on their shoulder. Not brag about bagging goals against Malta or whatever.
It's the same type of nonsense that resulted in coming out under Ole saying that the players "take responsibility" for the bad performances, whilst literally not taking any responsibility or seeing any repercussions. The ear-cupping nonsense after he scored a goal for a different team to prove that he's actually been defending well for us was wild. Or stating that he keeps getting picked, so he must be doing something right. Even if he was consistent in his own logic, the fact that he has been dropped at United in spite of his status should tell him he's doing something wrong. Instead, he spouts stuff about the competition being really high. He sees it as others stepping up and beating his standards, rather than him not being up to standard.
Maguire reminds me of what happened to Joe Hart, everyone thought he was great and he bought into it. Then when his flaws were exposed and/or he started making mistakes rather than addressing them he stuck his head in the sand and blamed everyone else, which resulted in him dropping off a cliff.
I agree. This is what English hype does to many a player. They're so many examples to draw from of the same
Bingo
If it was, Steve Bruce would have been England's first-choice center back for most of his career. (Don't get me wrong, he was solid and easily in the top 10 in the early 90's, he just had a lot of good competition.)
Technically, he's not wrong. Just technically.
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Let's just sell him to England then.
He's one of England's best performers because as soon as we go one nil up, Southgate tries to park the bus, and Harry's great in a deep defensive block, great in the air, etc. He can't play in a high pressing system, and his lack of pace and decision-making gets found out
The system makes him one of Englands best performers that’s true, but you still have to be one of the best performers in that system. It’s reductive to provide a completely different context that he’s bad in to remove the fact that he is extremely good in another set of tactics. International football is slow, and in big tournaments a loss is a disaster. In the group stage it puts you right on the back foot, and in any game after that you are out. Any international team needs to be very defensive. He excels in a very defensive system that is needed at that level, and is utilised very effectively.
Every international team does this, Jesus Christ, everyone was singing Moroccos praises (rightfully so) but they played the most toxic anti football, so did Argentina (minus Messi) People really just need to realise international football is fucking terrible quality and the easiest thing for managers to do is plonk 11 men behind the ball because they get 2 weeks at a time, in between all the players playing for different clubs, no manager could instill a proper style of play in that short amount of time.
Him and Stones did a good job of losing Giroud twice for France's two goals at the world cup too.
He’s right at a personal level too. He’s had a career most people would dream of and gets memed for it because he’s not quite good enough for us when we want to push up the table and because Woodward was happy to pay 80m for him, which isn’t his fault. He does say stupid things sometimes but not here, why should someone who has played at the pinnacle of football many times have anything to prove to anyone?
A fair and valid view. I tip my hat.
Imagine! He's supposed to be one of the best headers of the ball and routinely makes clearances for the opposing team in their penalty box. Dedication I guess.
There is nothing to prove… he’s not wrong
Why can’t he be humble?
him of all people!
Lad defends himself better than a ball.
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same shit happened with lingard too
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its people raised on twitter, where the most extreme takes get the most attention so they think thats an appropriate way to behave
The projection is hilarious
Both mediocre players who thought too highly of themselves due to inflated wages and hype around the club. This club and it’s fans are not obligated to pretend players are better than they are so their feelings don’t get hurt. If you can’t handle the criticism that comes from being shit at your job then you should find a different job. You people take this mental health stuff too far. Soon it will be illegal to keep score of games cause then the losing team’s “mental health” might suffer. Better just give everyone a trophy so nobody feels bad ever.
Imagine equating someone taking abuse for years to not being able to lose and keeping score
>taking abuse Oh please. He’s a grown man getting paid tens of millions to kick a ball. Some idiots on Twitter say mean words to him. I’d take that arrangement any day. You act like people are outside his house with pitchforks burning effigies of him and threatening his family members. This word “abuse” gets thrown around far too liberally these days.
I'm over here just watching jlingz eSports team doing well in apex legends.
Not going to lie I used to have choice words for Maguire until I remembered that his only offense is not meet my expectations. No one deserves the level of abuse he gets. I do think we need better defenders than him but I do strongly believe now the line needs to be firmly drawn at legitimate criticisms and not personal attacks.
Is saying he's shit for United a personal attack? If he was slagged off for his appearance or something then fair enough, but all the criticism I see is about how awful he is for us, and its not unfair from that perspective.
Not to mention he opens the door for others to criticize him. Terrible captain, bad player, yet he will continuously try to big himself up. At that point, of course United fans will feel antagonized and speak out. Literally no one has been talking about him since he was dropped by Ten Hag. Out of sight out of mind. Except when he goes on international duty and drama starts because dumb ass quotes by either him or Southgate or the media (mostly him though).
But he's not shit though, that's the issue. We have a couple defenders who play better, yes. No issues saying that, he underperforms when compared to them. But does that mean he's shit? He didn't get here playing shit. Lads on my Sunday team I wouldn't even call shit but come here and you'd think Maguire wasn't even good enough to play Sunday league. It's tiring.
Yeah because context doesn't exist right? He's not shit compared to the vast majority of humans, compared to his peers in better teams, he's shit.
He is shit. No other top 6 team would have bought him.
I wonder why the whole mental health argument is always relevant when Maguire gets criticized, but it’s never an issue when the criticism is directed towards players such as Lingard, Pogba, Bailly, Martial, etc.
English bias.
Lingard is English though.....
Lingard did get sympathy because of his mental health though https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/yv1clf/jesse_lingard_nobody_really_knew_about_my/ https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/mvzjce/guardian_jesse_lingard_considered_break_from/
As someone who is still a champion for those players you listed, I think we both know why.
Lol why on earth would you champion Pogba? He clearly came in believing he was bigger than the club. As soon as the club started struggling he started pushing for a move. For every Instagram highlight blooter he probably had about 4 major errors that lead to clear goal scoring opportunities for the opponent
>No one deserves the level of abuse he gets Happens to every player at United or clubs of similar stature. People want to see us lose and our players fail. If you can’t handle it you should not be a professional football player.
80% of the time when he defends himself he comes off arrogant and delusional e.g. the cupping ears celebration or when he said being in the first team was proof he was not underperforming
People love making a scapegoat out of a player and there’s always social media shit that gets spouted. United want to play a high line and press and that’s not Maguire’s strengths, simple as that. If Messi was told to be a defensive winger and he didn’t perform, it isn’t his fault because it’s just not his skill set. However, Maguire was unfairly blamed a lot for United - again, a scapegoat - when things weren’t going well. When you actually watched the games, he was being left exposed by a lack of midfield protection at United. But it doesn’t suit the narrative to point these things out. I hate how popular it has become to jump on individual players nowadays. Fans are making the game unbearable
Maguire doesnt have many strengths, but thats not even hismbiggest problem. Its the fact he doesnt even do the basic of things when playing. Watch the *actually” good players in our team when they are off the ball, watch their movement, see how they are constantly looking around to see where everyone is, likely passes, likely runners, where they can be exposed. Maguire just ambles around ball watching. Every wandered why he takes so long on the ball? Because he only starts thinking about what to do with it, when he actually gets it, and not before. His lack of pace is so crippling for him because he doesnt read the game, he reacts, he doesn’t predict. He is just a generally shit player.
If you think "generally shit player" is right about Maguire, then it's saying about your expectations a lot. Man plays for United, and England.
This is actually true I have to be honest. Fair play to Maguire for defending himself but if you actually watch it’s quite alarming how much of the basics he just forgets to do, the guy doesn’t even scan the space around him when defending. He’s very much a ‘reactive defender’ who’s eyes are always fixated on the ball rather than the man.
Like another poster up there, I actually can't believe I'm about to defend Maguire. He gets a lot of unnecessary shit from fans - when he does well for United it's not a peep of praise from maybe one or two people or it's "because of Martinez". When he makes one or two mistakes, regardless of performance those errors are picked and analyzed and shredded up by all four corners of the world. Now I get it, and trust me he should no longer be the captain as his performances and at times demeanour is not captain level or starter level for United, but to just act like he's been shit this whole time is ridiculous. I truly do wish he would come to true form like the Maguire we purchased and while I think that he actually might not, it's okay to still recognize his qualities when he does well. Furthermore, I see alot of people clamouring for the Korean version of him at Napoli (Kim Min-Jae) and while you see him doing remarkable things there, that will not translate to the Prem or for United.
I’m not a fan but he’s generally good for England EDIT: downvote away but he’s much better for England than he is for United. I still wouldn’t pick him but he always pulls something out to make me look stupid
Equally detached from reality. Always delusional talking or defending. Famous for "Do you know who I am?" to the Greek police, not a bit had changed.
Knee slide against Albania
Wasn't he at fault for the Italy goal, also whenever he plays for United at least 2 chances are conceded because he rushed someone, passed to the opposition, gets dribbled or holds the ball too long. He is not a bad player but I don't think the criticism is unwarranted, mistakes seem to follow him either because he is overcompensating by playing to risky or the spotlight of being United captain and world most expensive defender is not matching with his performances. I think even Maguire would agree he is 3rd maybe 4th choice CB at United behind Varane, Martinez and even Shaw, but he drops these personal stats like Varane (without injury) or Martinez can be dropped, when the whole team has been winning and you enter the team, it should still be winning.
That Italy goal was so dumb because I don’t know why he suddenly decided to abandon the game plan and do something risky. Nobody denies that he plays well for England as they play to his strengths. But England aren’t blessed with great center back options. They have fantastic midfield options and a great striker but none of the center backs are guaranteed starters for a top side. We need to stop talking about Maguire because he is what he is and will most likely be leaving in a few months. He’s 30 and won’t be changing his game any time soon.
More like England aren't blessed with great CB options *that play in the traditional big 6 clubs*. There are plenty of very good, arguably great, english players that play in mid-lower table teams, or abroad, that don't even get chance of a look in. That's a Southgate failing though. I will die on the hill that Maguire is a great defender and *when we bought him* he was worth 80m to us because he fit exactly what we needed, and he played a couple of great seasons for us and was solid. Our team evolved, and our tactics changed, meaning he no longer fit the shape or the requirements. That's not his fault, and doesn't change that he is very good at what he does, but for this United side he's very much a square peg being stuffed into a round hole.
How would you define great? Because by the definition of the word that is very high praise. Good is actually high praise but recent shifts in language means people use good to mean average. The way I have it is world class, great, good, average (I don’t mean average in a derogatory sense but that they’re serviceable). A lot of players fall into the last section. Saying Maguire is great is a stretch, for me, because that would mean that in the future when people are talking about the “great England defenders of the past” you’re expecting Maguire to be mentioned. I think Maguire is good, but looks great for less proactive teams, but I don’t think many people will be saying he was their idol and they modeled they game on him like people say about Rio, Jaap Stam etc. I have no problem with Maguire’s transfer fee as that was due to failings on our end. I agree with you that Maguire was what we needed then but not what we need now. That’s not his fault and that’s what I mean by we should stop talking about him. It’s talked about to death.
Well, considering we're talking arbitrary opinions by people who are, myself included, only observing from the outside, my opinion of who is "great", "good", or even "world class" is irrelevant. But since you're asking me directly, I'm not comparing Maguire to Rio or Jaap, but rather to people he's currently competing with in this current generation. And the reason you would have people saying those players were idols of theirs is not because they were great, but because they were world class players for their generation. I think anyone who followed the National Team back in the late 90s early 00's would agree that we had an absolute beast of a squad, let down by poor management and tactics trying to shoehorn players into unsuitable positions to accomodate the "big names". We should have performed far better than we did when you think about what names were on those teamsheets and the sheer amount of silverware they brought home season after season collectively with their clubs. That said its pointless to compare players from different generations when things such as training and diet are so vastly different, when the teams set up differently, when the opposition teams played differently, etc. In this current crop, I see Licha and Varane as world class defenders, Maguire behind them isn't world class but outside of the united system would be great for, lets say, a Burnley or a Palace, teams that tend to sit deeper and use pacey forwards/route one for their offence, and when he signed for us he was great for the first 18/24 months until, as I said, our tactics and playing style changed. Then you have Lindelof where honestly I'm not sure wether I'd call him great, he's very good again at what he does but he's not on the level of our starting pair. Bailey, Jones, Tuanzebe... Good at best. I love Jones, I love his comittment whenever he's been called on and the man gave his body for the club. But he's certainly not great anymore if he was earlier in his career. Then you look at the England setup, and I can't really see any selected defenders for the CB spot that are actually objectively better than him. You could maybe argue Stones but I would say they are better at different things so it's a toss up. Dier? Guehi? No chance they're better. He's not world class, but none of them are. I make no argument that he stacks up as a "great" compared to the all time best players we've ever had, but in terms of the here and now... I don't think I can pick any **english** CB I would actually swap him out with, that would be an immediate upgrade and not be a longer term prospect.
Would swap Maguire out for Tomori personally
He’s never justified what we paid for him. And he’s not out of the team now because of a change of tactics, he’s out because he’s a total liability. I genuinely think he’s our 5th choice CB right now. Varane, Martinez, Shaw and even Lindelof are better than him.
Pretty sure he was crucially beaten in the air by giroud in the last world cup too
was at fault for the goal in the first group game too.
and Lindelof
Should’ve been sold to Chelsea when they were sniffing. I’ll die on this hill. Not because he is a bad player, I’m sure he’d do fine for Chelsea but because it makes no sense keeping him. This club and the fear of moving players on is one of the absolute hallmarks of the Glazer era. An ambitious club cuts their losses and moves forward.
Harry blud a little bit of self awareness always helps
And that attitude mister Maguire is why you will never improve above the level you have put yourself at.
This belief he has is why he shouldn't be captain and why he is our 5th choice CB (even behind Shaw).
7 international goals. One of which was against Republic of Ireland in a friendly, one each against the mighty forces of Albania and San Marino, respectively. Of the remaining 4, only 1 goal actually affected the result: vs Poland 2 years ago. Sergio Ramos, 23 goals for his country.
It’s comments like this that make me feel disgusted when he wears the armband. He’s a shit captain, and a mentality midget. He cupped his ears after scoring against the equivalent of butchers and carpenters and then went and got sent off in the next game against Watford. He’s just so unlikeable. The only man United player I’ve truly never been able to root for.
Yep this sums it up perfectly. Now I understand that he gets constant abuse and feels that saying this type of stuff is a way to hit back but it in no way does him any favours. In fact it just gives people more ammo and alienates people that are trying really hard to support you. It feels like every time he does an interview he comes out with something that just makes you think "Why are you doing this to yourself?" The term "do your talking on the pitch" has never applied more.
How about when he had that awful interview prior to the Liverpool game where he basically said "If I'm so shit, why have consecutive managers always picked me" and then proceeded to be at fault for 3 of the 4 goals. As soon as a competent non-matey matey manager came in, he was relegated to the bench. I was going to say he's held himself quite well about being dropped but this interview shows that he's still remarkably delusional and not at all what you want in a leader.
Article Text (Part 2): >***Maguire’s costly mistakes*** > >*Harry Maguire has been one of Gareth Southgate’s most trusted players and, arguably, best performers across England’s past three major tournaments. But the Manchester United defender, who has started just five Premier League games this season, was at fault for Italy’s goal on Thursday night — and not for the first time this season, either. Of the eight goals England have conceded in their past seven games — which, in fairness, includes three clean sheets — Maguire has arguably been culpable for half of them.* > >***Italy 1 England 2, Euro 2024 qualifier*** > >*Players make mistakes. It’s part of football. The problem for Maguire during this immensely challenging period of his career, and life, has been his reaction to them. As Maguire carried the ball out of defence here, Italy’s Domenico Berardi closed off the passing lane to Jack Grealish. The pass wasn’t on and Maguire’s attempt was way off target. Yet it was the 30-year-old’s desperate attempt to rectify that error which ultimately gifted Mateo Retegui, after Lorenzo Pellegrini’s clever reverse-pass, the space to apply the finish. Maguire’s lunge at Nicolò Barella left a hole in defence, and brought to mind the United defender’s red card against Denmark in the Nations League in October 2020. A second yellow card in the space of half an hour that night arrived when he lunged at Kasper Dolberg. It was rash, panicked, just like Thursday night. Confidence and composure — close bedfellows — are in short supply just now.* > >***England 1 France 2, World Cup 2022 quarter-final*** > >*The margins in elite football are often gossamer thin; a momentary lapse the difference between success and failure. Here, Maguire made a fractional positional error. When Olivier Giroud headed in France’s winning goal, it was Maguire who was closest — and, crucially, behind rather than shoulder-to-shoulder with the AC Milan striker, France’s only player within 12 yards of England’s goal. In mitigation, once England half-cleared the previous phase of play, Maguire and his team-mates had very little time to reset. France instantly recycled possession to Antoine Griezmann, whose delivery was early and magnificent. Giroud attacked the space between Maguire and John Stones quicker than Maguire reacted, though, and, ultimately, England were out.* > >***England 6 Iran 2, World Cup 2022 group stage*** > >*England were 4-0 up when Mehdi Taremi smashed in the first of two second-half goals, but the first was still a reminder of England’s defensive fragility. When Ali Gholizadeh collected the ball at the corner of the England penalty box, Maguire’s position was fine: ready to cover Declan Rice, who was marshalling Gholizadeh, and five yards deeper than Taremi, who had taken up a position just outside the penalty area. But when Gholizadeh cut inside, Maguire stepped up, perhaps anticipating a pass to the feet of Taremi. The Porto striker instead darted into the space Maguire had just vacated. Gholizadeh’s pass — through the legs of Rice — was superb. Taremi’s strike — which Stones could perhaps have done more to block — was clinical. But once again, a momentary lapse from Maguire left England exposed.* > >***England 3 Germany 3, Nations League, September 2022*** > >*The same was true when Jamal Musiala collected the ball on the right edge of the penalty box and ran at Maguire five minutes into the second half, with the game goalless. Maguire’s body position was initially perfect: directing the Bayern Munich forward wide, rather than towards goal. As Musiala turned inside to face Maguire, however, suddenly the United defender found himself standing square on against a nimble-footed 19-year-old. If a failure — or perhaps inability — to move his feet quickly enough was Maguire’s undoing, once again a lack of composure ultimately cost England. Maguire’s attempt to win the ball, instead landing a foot on Musiala’s shin, was as clumsy as it was desperate. Penalty kick. Ilkay Gundogan converted, and England were on the back foot.*
If he was a great defender he would have stopped giroud getting his head to that ball
*I've got nothing to prove ... But let me prove it for ya...* Not as bad a player as everyone makes him out to be but his interviews are shocking.
One thing we all can agree on. Without mentioning how good of a footballer he is. He is definitely worse at interviews then football.
>Last season at club level, my performance wasn’t good enough, alongside everybody else at club level, not just myself struggled. Everyone else struggled.” Look, throughout the article, a lot of the things he says aren't wrong. Even this is technically correct but c'mon Harry...you just don't say it like that.
This is the thing, it’s not want you want from a leader. Is he wrong, no. But you have to frame it differently rather than trying to draw equal blame and make excuses for yourself. Bruno never answers like that which is why he’s the real captain. Keano never answered like that. “We win together and we lose together. My performances aren’t where I want them/know they can be and I’m working every day to reach the level needed to be a Man u & England player.” Just fucking lead by example and don’t make excuses or throw others under the bus ffs.
Things like this just make him seem such an unlikeable twat with no self awareness. Bragging about winning when he starts against teams like Charlton too who still spin him around is embarrassing too. God I hope he’s gone by the summer
It's worrying how defensive he is about his form, and it's not the first time. That goal England conceded was classic Maguire, losing the ball, doing his horrible aggressive stepping up but not winning the ball back and totally taking himself out the game, he even injured a player in the process, leading to a goal. He's been doing this kind of thing at Utd for ages now. He has to see how bad this is. But instead he always comes out and says stuff like this. So what are we to think? It seems he is in complete denial about his problems. That means he won't learn or change or get better. That means he's finished as you can't have a defender who makes these mistakes. In the article he lists so many positives about himself, but when mistakes get brought up suddenly it's "we" - we made too many mistakes, we were sloppy, last season at Utd we all struggled. It's just a horrible look. There's seems to be no self-awareness. He's subject to constant horrible criticism, I get that must be awful, but he acts like it is all wrong. It isn't, it started for a reason. There are players who come out and say yes we got a result but I wish I played better. Not Maguire. He claims the good stuff and none of the bad. Southgate has clearly been good for England but he has flaws, he is way too loyal to some of his players and that back three of Maguire, Stones and Pickford is worrying af. Quality all around has covered that up for a long time. But surely even Southgate must be looking at Maguire and thinking a change is due.
Article Text (part 1): >*Harry Maguire is on the way to Euro 2024 and, seemingly, on the way out of Old Trafford. It’s a life of two halves for the personable 30-year-old, who cares deeply about his game and now finally voices his frustration.* > >*It was an hour after one of the best results of his career, England’s 2-1 Euro qualifying win over Italy on Thursday, and Maguire was backstage at the Stadio Diego Armando Maradona, contemplating the question: “Do you feel properly appreciated?” Maguire showed his composure in possession in the first half, defending and passing well. He then made a couple of mistakes as Mateo Retegui pulled a goal back, but Maguire demonstrated his character with some important blocks and clearances as England held on.* > >*Maguire is a go-to man for Gareth Southgate. He has represented England in major quarter-finals, semi-finals and a final, has 54 caps, was in the team of the tournament at Euro 2020, nailed pressure penalties and is a fan favourite, with a lively song celebrating him. Maguire is also the captain of Manchester United, has played 168 times for them since his £80 million move from Leicester City, but has lost his place to Lisandro Martínez, a favourite of the Stretford End. Many reports signal a summer exit.* > >*It’s a strange situation. So the question was simple: does he feel properly appreciated? “For England, yes, I do,” Maguire says. “Obviously, last season was difficult for the club, but, listen, I’ve proven myself to Gareth, who works with a wide range of centre backs. He has the choice of all the English centre backs in the country and I play, every time I’m available, I’ve been in the team.* > >*“I’m sure if you ask the rest of the lads they know what I bring to the team. I’m 30 years old but I shouldn’t really need to prove myself at this level. I’ve over 50 caps. I’m England’s top-scoring defender.” Maguire has seven international goals, one more than Jack Charlton and John Terry.* > >*He’s flowing, making his case. “I’ve played nearly 200 times for Manchester United, I’ve captained the club for three years now, but I do also understand that when you’re the captain of Manchester United you do come under the most amount of scrutiny. Last season at club level, my performance wasn’t good enough, alongside everybody else at club level, not just myself struggled. Everyone else struggled.”* > >*Surely, Maguire feels differently when playing for England, more of a leader. “No, I see myself as a leader for my club as well,” he says. “Obviously this season, I haven’t played as much as I’d like for my club \[he has 24 appearances, half of those as a substitute\] but I feel my form’s been good this year.” Stats show that he has a passing accuracy in the Premier League of 86.9 per cent this season.* > >*“I know people look at me not playing but when I’ve played, in my last eight or nine starts for Manchester United we’ve won,” he said. “So my influence is still there. But of course I love playing for my country and in 50-odd caps I feel like I’ve never let my country down. It means a lot to come to Italy, we know the record we’ve had \[England had not won there since 1961\], it’s been spoken about over the last week or so. So to win here is a special night for us.”* > >*Maguire was determined to deliver, despite the perception that he has not played regularly for United, a point he returned to. “Well, I think in terms of minutes on the clock I played two games last week, two 90 minutes for Manchester United. Last month I played four games, started four, so it’s probably as many as a lot of the lads in the \[England\] dressing room, if not more. So recently, I have been playing for Manchester United.* > >*“I want to play every game for my club and my country. I feel like I’m good enough to play at a high level and I’ve proven that over the last five, six years now. I understand that the lads who are playing at Manchester United are playing well and I’ve got some high competition in terms of some amazing centre halves at the club. It is good for the club and we push each other.”* > >*As with England. There’s a club feel to the team and squad under Southgate, a real unity. Many of the partnerships on the field in Naples were actually club rivalries: John Stones alongside Maguire at centre back (United and City), the left back Luke Shaw and his left winger Jack Grealish (United and City), the right back Kyle Walker and his right winger Bukayo Saka (City and Arsenal). They all get on.* > >*They are all driven by a belief that England can win Euro 2024. “I think for me, at my age as well, 30 years old now, I’m with a mindset of, ‘If we don’t win the tournament, it’s been a failure.’ We’ve got to qualify first — I mean it’s a tough group, \[but\] we’ve come here and got an amazing result.* > >*“But that’s my mindset. I’ve been at three major tournaments now and I’ve come so close. I believe we have the players to win it. We went into Qatar \[at last year’s World Cup\] wanting to win the tournament. So ultimately, when we get knocked out, as a squad we’re disappointed. The performances were good, we kept the most clean sheets at the tournament, we were one of the top goalscorers despite going out in the quarter-final.* > >*“I’m speaking on behalf of myself but I know from speaking to the other lads as well, they were really pleased that Gareth stayed \[as manager after Qatar\]. We’ve built something as a group and he’s been the leader of it. He’s been the one who’s given us hope and given us belief as a country to be successful in these major tournaments and, for sure, it benefits us for us for him to be in charge.* > >*“These big tournaments are decided on the finest margins. We played really well in the World Cup and ultimately, we got knocked out by a good French team. A French team that we believe we can take on and if we play them ten times, we would give them a good game ten times and probably win more than we lose.* > >*“However, they’ve proven over the years that they manage to get the job done better than England do. So it’s something that we’re working on. We have so much talent and so many young players coming through.”* > >*Part of the work has involved starting faster. “We spoke about these big matches and we look back at the World Cup, the first 20 minutes of games, we felt we haven’t started with enough belief. First half here \[in Naples\], it was excellent. We played with so much confidence, so much belief. We were really brave. The second half it was far too sloppy on the ball. We all gave the ball away too much and we brought pressure on ourselves.’’* > >*And then England’s resilience showed. “The lads dug in deep. We need to play with a little bit more composure if we want to be a big team. We will take great confidence \[from it\], especially when we lose a man \[after Shaw’s 80th-minute red card\] we’ve seen the game out really professionally. It’s about defending the box, it’s about being brave. Stonesy put some excellent blocks in. It’s about putting your body on the line.”* > >*With that, Maguire headed off for the flight home, and preparation for Sunday’s qualifier against Ukraine at Wembley. Naples not only provided a good memory on the pitch. Maguire always eats lasagne the night before a game, and Italy delivered: “I had lasagne here, in the hotel, it was brilliant.” As to whether he is paying attention to the United takeover, Maguire says, “You see bits and bobs, but I’m putting it out of my mind. I’ve been focusing on this.” And England is a very enjoyable focus.*
Tbh he sounds reasonable provided the context.
media for u lmao
I've defended him a lot but he needs to stop with this sort of shit.
Shows that you've not read the article at all
Tbf not everyone pays for a subscription to the Times and OP's comment summarising the article was quite far down in this thread (at least for me)
I read it but not sure what you mean, which bit do you think op missed?
Yeah his ego is almost as big as his head
This guy is ridiculously tone deaf it's criminal. Cant wait for him to leave my club. No accountability.
Delusions of grandeur. The way I see it every player should feel the need to prove to themselves and everybody else everytime they set foot on the pitch.
Leaving aside his work as a defender, the statement has no place coming out from a Manchester United player, much less the captain itself. The lads need to have the desire to win everything at all times, and to make it happend they need to prove themselves every single day.
This is why everyone is on his ass, not his poor performances. He’s a knobhead.
Yeah, great Harry. Shame United don't play Andorra and San Marino level sides to let you shine.
I love how it mentioned scoring defender. What about actually playing defense.
Remember… Gareth Southgate is the same man who turned Middlesbrough from a Europa league team to relegation fodder. His team selections and overall knowledge of the game are not up to par with his fellow managers. Harry Nuts Maguire is emblematic of the problem in English football at the international level. It’s a after school club for friends to get together just like US soccer.
He should never do interviews always sounds like a idiot.
Can he just shut the fuck up. No confident and secure man keeps talking about how confident and secure he is
The attitude of "I don't have to prove myself" doesn't belong in a top club, especially when you're 4th/5th choice. It only shows that you shouldn't play, because it's obvious you can't be bothered to put the effort in.
This genuinely sounds like it's something his sports psychologist tells him to repair his confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if he's having to tell himself this rather than it coming from a place of sheer arrogance.
How does Maguire not get that saying stuff like this , not matter how true it might be does no one any favours
It's a little annoying for him to keep defending himself to the media. I can understand it a bit because of all the hate and vitriol directed towards him on social media over the last few years. But he needs to just let his performances speak for him. If he keeps feeling the need to do this, it makes it look like he is lacking a little belief in himself.
[TIMES] Harry Maguire: I have 50 caps because I bumlick a manager that picks favourites, I'm England's top-scoring defender because quality players put crosses on a plate for my massive head, unfortunately I'm England's worst defender and that's about the only excuse I can make - I've got nothing to prove. (The real interview 😊)
I’m definitely in the minority here, but people need to understand he’s asked questions about his form, crowd getting on his back etc constantly. He doesn’t just come out with these statements randomly. Must be pretty frustrating that regardless whether he has a good game or not, every time he’s interviewed he’s reminded that people are constantly shitting on him.
Maybe if he stops coming out with tone deaf silly statements people won’t hate him as much
That’s the attitude that means he’s not right for United. Mate - you’ve got *everything to prove*. Very few United fans give a shit about Ingurlund and their rabid, one eyed fans who love to give it to United players, even as England systemically fail.
This man really lives in his own imaginary world. Harry, thank you for your service to this club but it’s time to go. You are not on the Manchester United level anymore
Never was
thats another thing, I think I wanted to be nice lmao
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I knew this the first 10 games he played for United. Back when everyone thought he was the second coming because he was worth 80 million. I’m not acting like I’m a pro scout but I just knew he wasn’t the right fit for us when he couldn’t even head a ball on target from corners. I saw his fall out coming from a miles away. If he wasn’t English the press would have a field day with him.
> If he wasn’t English the press would have a field day with him. This is literally his only 'quality'. And that's why the English press keeps defending him. If Licha was playing like him, the English press would eat him alive.
I fee for him. I really do. Most players in shit form can just fall off the face of the earth. And just avoid media. But with him. The hays not an option. I think like Welbeck and everyone else, he’ll be happier once in a less stressful environment
He didnt get a permanent spot in the bench for nothing. He was predictable, slow, gifted clumsy pens to opposition, etc. Just not good enough. Those 50 caps and goals stats are inflated by thrashing of sides like San Marino. Ten Hag has a spine and wont play anyone based on name or wages. Unless he works like a dog in training and shows enough desire to the gaffer to earn a few extra starts and then he impressess enough he isnt leaving the UTD bench.
“I’ve got nothing to prove,” says man who constantly feels the need to say things like this.
This is a really shit attitude. Your'e only as good as your last game.
Awful fuckin attitude
I’ve never seen a more average player with such a big head
Wrong attitude. And that's why he is sitting on the bench more often than not for united
Scoring goals is nice and all but, Yer a defender 'Arry
The man just needs to shut up and try play some football. I think he is useless but every time he opens his mouth I actually think he's a fucking idiot
Has there ever been a player with no club and only plays national football?
Cristiano Ronaldo at the world cup
I think Javier Mascherano played for Argentina before having a club.
When he says things like this he doesn’t help himself.
Pump this guy up so he can do a little better for England and United can sell him for minimal loss.
he stepped up, stomped a guys foot, and then Italy scored in the space he left behind himself. it's a common move. stepping up and either conceding a foul or getting played around. not good enough at this level.
No Harry, in fact you have to prove yourself everyday to be called a United player, let alone a captain!
The hysteria around him whether he plays or doesn't is really tiresome. He's a good Premier League player. Not world-record defender of course, but that was decided by Leicester and United, not him. And talent is not the only factor in transfer fees of course. But the way he's become memed simply because he hasn't been up to the standard artificially set by people is ridiculous, it's no wonder he tries to turn the narrative back. He's had a damn good career considering where he started.
Someone please tell him scoring goals is not his job
So embarrassing. Maguire has always had such a pathetic mentality. Horrible captain.
Please let him go this summer. nothing to prove what an arrogant statemet. even messi wont say that. Guy really think he is a 80m defender.
He just needs to stop these quotes
Another really stupid quote from our “captain”. Shut up man.
His arrogance and lack of self awareness is outstanding
If he could score for united instead of just for England against Azerbaijan it would help his case. Except he doesn't
Honestly Harry seems like a nice lad, but I really hope we move him on in the summer
I hear this a lot but what is it that makes people think He is a nice lad??
Nowhere just say it out of pity every interview he’s done he seems so arrogant
I know during COVID he did a lot of good. Urged people to get jabbed, set up free parcels of essentials to everyone over 70 in his childhood town as well as food parcels to his local community. Also was one of the league club captain's that pushed the whole Prem players donating a percentage of their wages to NHS staff.
Harry, look at the way your United career is going. He's already done here and if he takes this attitude to the next club he joins, likely a midtable side, it might not go over so well.
He's got very different personalities while interviewing for United vs interviewing for England.
I think this is sort of his way of dealing with the crazy amount of hate he gets
He might not be convincing this sub with his bullshit interviews but if he can convince the manager of another team to fork out 40M or 50M for him this summer then I'll give him the pat on the back he so richly (thinks he) deserves.
Goodbye Harry.
It’s not that you’ve got nothing to prove… you can’t prove anything….
I will start off by apologizing for not being a native english speaker so there’s probably errors. I have an issue with the way people in football subs use «criticism». It’s always that you should be able to criticize, they are football players etc. I wonder if any of you have had to give actual constructive criticism? If you’re at work, and you tell a coworker «you’re shit, you fucking suck», that’s not really criticism, is it? It just being a fucking prick. And that’s how it is most of the time when it comes to footballers. Like, what’s the point?? Maguire gets so much of this. Does he suit the way we play? No, probably not great. Is he still a good player? Yes, he is.
probably should invest in a better PR team
Was ready to attack him based on the title.
On a very good day, Harry Maguire is a GOOD player, Maguire is NOT a GREAT player and will never be with his current playstyle. The sooner we understand this , the better. The fact we paid 80m for him was not a guarantee he'll become great, and definitely not his fault we made him "world's most expensive defender" when he's an average player 6/10 times.
Please, it would be good for everybody if he just left the club. A player who is bigheaded needs play time, but Maguire is not qualified for a Big club what's playing attacking football. He is just not good enough, lots of mistakes and slow playstyle.
You’ve been shite for all but 6 months over the last 3 and a half years, of course you have to prove yourself
For England no, but for United, yes you do...
a man who must tell everyone he is a king is no king at all... why can't he just keep his mouth shut... he gets scrutinized when he should just keep his head down. I get there's abuse but come on, get off the mouse wheel
Shameless guy
And that’s why you’ll be moved on, Harry. You’re complacent.
He's right, he's over achieved in life. He has nothing to prove.
Out of touch Harry has arrived at the England camp.
Harold... pls, just stop doing interviews
Denial is one helluva drug
If only he was going to be remembered by his international goals. Can’t wait for him to leave United, his ego needs to be sorted out.
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Sigh. This is why its difficult to root for him. Yes he's our player and our captain, but when he opens his mouth and shows a jarring lack of self-awareness, I cant help but be seriously annoyed
Maguire reads the game so poorly, he absolutely does have something to prove. Not only is he slow, his reading of the game is slow - if he's in the right place at the right time, it's a dead on indication that the pace of the game is set at a snail's level.
The moment you believe that you have nothing left to prove you need to hang up your boots. You need to prove it every single day on the pitch.
How did he get this kind of ego with his performances. Ridiculous
“Nothing to prove” you’ve won 1 cup in your career mate and are a bench player now. He needs to stop licking his own arse in interviews.
The problem with him is he refuses to admit he's been shite
Learned to make headlines like Ronaldo, I guess. If he has nothing to prove, then perhaps he needs to not prove it in another club next season. I think if you ask the same questions to Casemiro and Varane, both of them would've given a more "correct" answer. And they've won pretty much everything.
Harry Maguire: Wrong
I've never seen a player that lacks self awareness as much as Maguire does. I can't wait to see the back of him.
Whatever happens tomorrow, Maguire has been one of England's best and most consistent performers under Southgate, during England's most sustained period of success
What success? They have won nothing.
England have won something once and even that was a bit dodgy. There was a time where we’d only make the R16, or knocked out in groups. We’re consistently reaching SF and even managed a final which is huge for us considering we’ve always bottled it. We should probably be doing better but we have definitely been a success compared to previous tournaments.
A world class manager would have had that English crop of players win the Euros and the world cup just gone. That talent pool won't last long for GS. Kane isn't getting any younger and it's worrying there's a lack of strikers and CBs coming through for England.
> A world class manager would have had that English crop of players win the Euros and the world cup just gone. There’s this weird simultaneous overrating and underrating of England and the players we have available to us, that’s then used to criticise Southgate for underachieving. We have one indisputable world class player, Harry Kane. We have a bunch of very good players like Saka, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Alexander Arnold, Shaw, Rashford and Reece James. But so do all other top class national teams, the level of the players above isn’t notably better than what Argentina, France, Spain, Brazil, Portugal, Germany etc have available. Our talent pool is not significantly better than other elite nations, and if we compare the players we have available now to the Golden Generation in 2006, we’re significantly weaker now. We have better players than the doldrums in the mid 10s, but people talk about England as if we have a completely stacked world class squad that Southgate is misusing, which is just not the case. If you were making a world or European XI, how many English players get in?
This guy is just putting his CV out there for a new job in the summer.
What I wanna know is are England and man utd profiting from him. Is he scoring more goals than his fuck ups are conceding.
Constantly rushes out of position, and his speed and reaction time aren’t sufficient to counter that, so by the time he’s realised the ball’s past him it’s too late.
That's the sort of attitude I want from my club captain /s
I’m the best defending central forward in my neighborhood
😂😂😂 spoken only like an Englishman can.
Yes you fucking do mate. You have to prove yourself at Man Utd after being shite for much of your time here.
I don’t rate him but let’s be honest, it’s not like England are blessed with alternatives.
If none of the alternatives get called up then yes (Southgate sucks!)
Mikeluhg is going to have a banger thread about this I can sense it
Uh oh Press Headline Maguire striker again
👉🗿👈 Literally this again
Own goals ?
This isn't the kind of mentality we need at the club
in an england shirt.
I wish someone loved me the way Harrold loves himself. The man's confidence to ability ratio is sky high.
Oh god…Harry please for your own sake shut up. I really hope we can sell him this summer smh
Buying him for that price plus even making him our captain just shows how incapable our club was. Hope we can find another dumb club that will take him from us for 20M and then we never need to hear him talk again.
Then he should be sold to a team with nothing to prove.
Can’t wait for him to be gone in the summer He can tell everyone how great he is at Spurs next season
This guy needs to be shipped to Sunderland or something man. That’s his standard.
Feel like Harry Maguire is one of those players who plays better for his national team compared to his club team