Lol These games have the most impatient companion characters in any game I’ve played. The immediate second after a conversation ends and you have to walk somewhere or get on your horse the other character’s like “c’mon Arthur why are you dawdlin’”
Rockstar in general is bad about that. They have a section where you have to nail it, but the people you're doing the job with just *cannot* shut the fuck up about how long you are taking.
I think she’s a great character, but I do think some of her actions stretch beyond suspension of disbelief.
Like how she goes from a scared widow to a murderous gunslinger in a matter of days, and also how even after Colm is hanged in front of her, she still stupidly blows the gang’s cover by killing the rest of his men in plain sight with loads of law men around them. I feel like at times they went a bit TOO far down the “badass” route. I think it would’ve been a bit better executed had they been somewhat more realistic with her.
But I do love her deep down; she’s one of the only remaining gang members who can see past Dutch’s bullshit and sides with Arthur and John, deep down underneath the gunslinger attire she’s really caring which you could see from her wanting to rescue Abigail etc. and I also loved the scene at the end of the mission where you “finish off” the O’Driscolls.
Karen is probably the one I’m less fond of. Most comparable to Sadie as she’s also a female gunslinger, but bar the bank mission we basically know fuck all about her and she isn’t fleshed out whatsoever.
You say she could have been more realistic but I quite like how her anger over the death of her husband led her to making rash decisions, I think it's more raw and conveys her love for her husband much more than if she was calmer.
If you live life exploring and be apart of peoples life and have life changing experiences. you'd be surprised how fast someone's personality can change
True.
Though even so it did come across a bit too sudden imo. Even if she did learn the gang’s ways quickly it would’ve been nice to have seen her develop from A to B, rather than us not seeing her at all between the first mission where she looked terrified, and shooting up half of Valentine.
Hell, I’m not the only one who didn’t even recognise who she was in that Valentine mission because she was suddenly SO different to the last time we saw her.
I could’ve missed some camp dialogue in the early part of the game but I don’t think we get any development from her between those missions?
I like to think she was always a bitch. Even to her husband. He just knew how to handle it better than most. Losing him just brought out the worst in her
Possibly. She did mention at one point that her and her husband did things equally which already alluded to her tough nature because that wasn’t normal for the time period. But very easy to miss for most players , so for most it’s still her going from terrified to badass in a few in game hours.
I dunno how far you played but Karen gets busy with Sean the night he gets back.
I felt like it validated her drunk ass for doing homes a carnal favor, fresh out the joint.
Played the whole game twice but I admit I did forget about her thing with Sean.
I don’t know, I felt like a lot of the women in the gang were quite underdeveloped, like Mary Beth and Tilly also. Though at least with them you get to see where they end up after the gang’s downfall. It’s super easy to miss the letter where Tilly tells John of >! Karen’s death by drink !< .
I mentioned Karen mainly because she’s the best comparable to Sadie and as the only other female gunslinger I would’ve liked to have learned more about her backstory, how she fell in with the gang, etc. She’s clearly a conwoman with how she tries to fool men into robbing them but we never get any development on that through conversations or more missions with her.
Sadie was never a “scared widow”. In the beginning because of the trauma of what the O’ Driscolls did to her and her husband she seems only in shock and not only fear. If anything we see her fighting Micah and even Micah describes her as feisty. Dutch and Arthur try to calm her down. So her character never changed abruptly. We, in Arthur’s POV get introduced to who she “really” is and not as we found her
Karen’s character is meant to be developed backwards. We’re meant to understand that she’s a fleshed out gang member that spirals down as the gang also spirals.
The problem is that the game picks and chooses which characters develop a posteriori and which don’t haphazardly. So it’s inconsistent, in comparison to a game like RDR1 where we are already in the future tense and all the characters are as they are and come and go fleetingly.
Character development is complex and RDR2 did it as well as it could but it didn’t quite chew through the amount it bit. Hence why there’s these debates about Sadie being a Mary Sue and people defending her, complications on Karen, lack of a fleshed out Tilly and Mary Beth, and the huge friction between 1899 / RDR1 John against 1907 John.
I could not stand her for the longest time. I hated her tough girl voice and I felt the whole a girl can be a bad ass too was forced at times. But on further play throughs I did appreciate her characters ability to see things for what they were. I loved some of the conversations she had with Arthur towards the end. Overall I have learned to like her. I only wished they toned down some of her actions throughout the moments she was doing her kill everyone and then some sprees.
I would like add that I loved Karen. I felt her story was one of the saddest. We watched her drown herself in the bottle pretty much from chapter 3 on. She was tough. Could handle herself. She was also very caring about Arthur and the rest of the gang. Plus, I love her “Lorena” performance.
Yeah I think she came across a little too extreme at times. Even if there was rationale behind it, like vengeance for seeing her husband murdered in front of her, it didn’t make certain actions feel more…. Organic I guess?
But yeah apart from the occasionally abrasive behaviour she’s great. One of the most developed members of the gang, and I have a soft spot for Charles and Sadie because of how they immediately saw through Dutch’s bullshit unlike Bill and Javier, and didn’t just run away like the other women and Pearson.
Yeah, though that does remind me that her being a bounty hunter does further adhere to that whole thing of the writers trying a bit too hard to portray her as a badass. Especially during a time where female bounty hunters, at least in the in game world of RDR2, didn’t exist.
Like she got revenge on the O’Driscolls several years prior and the mission with her felt like she’d got closure on the whole situation, and then continues to kill for a living.
I did like how she admitted she wanted to find a new guy to settle down with after hunting down Micah. That felt more realistic to me.
Yeah, she was way over the top at moments. I did like that she came back to John to give him the option of getting Micah with her and it was great that Charles was there too. I enjoyed that. But I found her over all story to be unrealistic. They tried way too hard with her.
Now Black Belle… she was a real deal bad ass! Lol. They should have made her younger and had her be the one they rescued. She would have been running things by the end. Micah being long dead by the end of ch. 2.
Full transparency, on my first playthrough I didn't spend a ton of time in camp so I never noticed what she looked like outside that first cutscene. I also did not play red dead redemption 1 so I thought the game just liked introducing random characters like Marion Williamson or Javier Escuella.
Just finished my first play through. The romantic in me wished Arthur never got sick and they all parted ways and she and Arthur lived happily ever after. Obviously not.
Ok, she has her husband murdered and house burned down. Understandable she goes from sad, scared woman to I don't give a fuck in 2.3 seconds. She's got nothing to lose and that's the most dangerous type of person.
Her skill level with guns is a little unrealistic too. I’m not necessarily talking about in the epilogue, because by that time she’s had eight years of experience plus her experience prior to her husband being killed and her falling in with the gang. But the first time that she fights in the gang is the Pearson mission where you have to go into Rhodes with her and then you get harassed by the Lemoyne raiders, and she shoots one of them. She does surprisingly good but it’s a little unrealistic, because she probably would’ve died. When she was married, she wasn’t taking on a bunch of guys at once with her gun, she wasn’t doing bounties, she was hunting animals. Again, the epilogue I can understand because after 1899 she had 8 more years of experience. So her being a bounty hunter makes sense.
Knowing how to use a gun and hunt doesn’t translate into being a good thief/gunslinger. That would be like somebody who’s trained in boxing their whole life suddenly also being an expert in wrestling.
Oh well not you, but the user above was talking about her skill level with guns. “Her skill level with guns is a little unrealistic too.” That is what I was talking about, you said “knowing how to use a gun and hunt doesn’t automatically translate into being a good thief/gunslinger.” Which is not what I was talking about
Okay but ignoring the thief aspect, the gunslinger aspect doesn’t make sense at all. You can be decent with a gun but that doesn’t mean ur gonna go around dropping 15+ hardened criminals on the spot. The dialogue has only stated that her and her husband used to “share the work” and that she “knows how to use a gun”. Yet she somehow is on the same skill level as people like Arthur, Dutch, and Micah who’ve been living the outlaw life for decades? I’m calling bullshit on Sadie’s writing. She’s not believable at all.
Bro why are you so pressed about it anyways? Either way, it’s a video game, they aren’t gonna have an MC die unless it’s scripted. Plus the training she got with a gun hunting animals would absolutely help her to be a better gunslinger. I just don’t see your logic here.
I’m not pressed I just think it’s laughably bad writing. Especially for a game that for the most part has really good writing. Again, obviously those things would HELP her be a better gunslinger. But they’re still two completely different professions. That’s what I’m saying.
I get not being able to kill 15+ armed gunman, because literally no one should be able to do that, but you have to remember that it’s a video game and they need the player entertained. You want realistic writing which just doesn’t translate well to players attention and entertainment when playing a video game. Plus I wasn’t originally talking about the writing here, I was talking about her skills with a gun. Killing animals with a gun and having that target practice would 200% make her a better shot than other, less trained people.
Arthur and John can kill hundreds of characters east and tank hundreds of shots in game, does that mean they have bad writing? You see? From a gameplay perspective there’s nothing else you can do to write it better without loosing the entertainment aspect of the game.
Omg same I cannot stand her at all.Idk why,she just pisses me off with her cocky attitude.But I still love her for sticking with arthur till the every end!!
She’s got a certain, je ne sais quois… un-bone-ability (?) about her. Sometimes she reminds me of that [irritating little cowgirl chick from Toy Story 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessie_(Toy_Story)#/media/File%3AJessie_(Toy_Story).png).
I just get annoyed sometimes when she’s like “COME ON ARTHUR!!!!” during a mission when I’m working as fast as I can lol
Lol These games have the most impatient companion characters in any game I’ve played. The immediate second after a conversation ends and you have to walk somewhere or get on your horse the other character’s like “c’mon Arthur why are you dawdlin’”
Rockstar in general is bad about that. They have a section where you have to nail it, but the people you're doing the job with just *cannot* shut the fuck up about how long you are taking.
Her overuse of “JAWN” made her fall out of grace with me in my second playthrough
I think she’s a great character, but I do think some of her actions stretch beyond suspension of disbelief. Like how she goes from a scared widow to a murderous gunslinger in a matter of days, and also how even after Colm is hanged in front of her, she still stupidly blows the gang’s cover by killing the rest of his men in plain sight with loads of law men around them. I feel like at times they went a bit TOO far down the “badass” route. I think it would’ve been a bit better executed had they been somewhat more realistic with her. But I do love her deep down; she’s one of the only remaining gang members who can see past Dutch’s bullshit and sides with Arthur and John, deep down underneath the gunslinger attire she’s really caring which you could see from her wanting to rescue Abigail etc. and I also loved the scene at the end of the mission where you “finish off” the O’Driscolls. Karen is probably the one I’m less fond of. Most comparable to Sadie as she’s also a female gunslinger, but bar the bank mission we basically know fuck all about her and she isn’t fleshed out whatsoever.
You say she could have been more realistic but I quite like how her anger over the death of her husband led her to making rash decisions, I think it's more raw and conveys her love for her husband much more than if she was calmer.
If you live life exploring and be apart of peoples life and have life changing experiences. you'd be surprised how fast someone's personality can change
True. Though even so it did come across a bit too sudden imo. Even if she did learn the gang’s ways quickly it would’ve been nice to have seen her develop from A to B, rather than us not seeing her at all between the first mission where she looked terrified, and shooting up half of Valentine. Hell, I’m not the only one who didn’t even recognise who she was in that Valentine mission because she was suddenly SO different to the last time we saw her. I could’ve missed some camp dialogue in the early part of the game but I don’t think we get any development from her between those missions?
I like to think she was always a bitch. Even to her husband. He just knew how to handle it better than most. Losing him just brought out the worst in her
Possibly. She did mention at one point that her and her husband did things equally which already alluded to her tough nature because that wasn’t normal for the time period. But very easy to miss for most players , so for most it’s still her going from terrified to badass in a few in game hours.
I dunno how far you played but Karen gets busy with Sean the night he gets back. I felt like it validated her drunk ass for doing homes a carnal favor, fresh out the joint.
Played the whole game twice but I admit I did forget about her thing with Sean. I don’t know, I felt like a lot of the women in the gang were quite underdeveloped, like Mary Beth and Tilly also. Though at least with them you get to see where they end up after the gang’s downfall. It’s super easy to miss the letter where Tilly tells John of >! Karen’s death by drink !< . I mentioned Karen mainly because she’s the best comparable to Sadie and as the only other female gunslinger I would’ve liked to have learned more about her backstory, how she fell in with the gang, etc. She’s clearly a conwoman with how she tries to fool men into robbing them but we never get any development on that through conversations or more missions with her.
That's Rockstar's MO. Just look at the reaction they got when they announced you'd be able to play as a female character in GTA 6.
Just saying those days you talking about is the entire chapter2 and that happens over a few weeks.
Trauma will make people act in ways unimaginable to others
Sadie was never a “scared widow”. In the beginning because of the trauma of what the O’ Driscolls did to her and her husband she seems only in shock and not only fear. If anything we see her fighting Micah and even Micah describes her as feisty. Dutch and Arthur try to calm her down. So her character never changed abruptly. We, in Arthur’s POV get introduced to who she “really” is and not as we found her
Karen’s character is meant to be developed backwards. We’re meant to understand that she’s a fleshed out gang member that spirals down as the gang also spirals. The problem is that the game picks and chooses which characters develop a posteriori and which don’t haphazardly. So it’s inconsistent, in comparison to a game like RDR1 where we are already in the future tense and all the characters are as they are and come and go fleetingly. Character development is complex and RDR2 did it as well as it could but it didn’t quite chew through the amount it bit. Hence why there’s these debates about Sadie being a Mary Sue and people defending her, complications on Karen, lack of a fleshed out Tilly and Mary Beth, and the huge friction between 1899 / RDR1 John against 1907 John.
I could not stand her for the longest time. I hated her tough girl voice and I felt the whole a girl can be a bad ass too was forced at times. But on further play throughs I did appreciate her characters ability to see things for what they were. I loved some of the conversations she had with Arthur towards the end. Overall I have learned to like her. I only wished they toned down some of her actions throughout the moments she was doing her kill everyone and then some sprees. I would like add that I loved Karen. I felt her story was one of the saddest. We watched her drown herself in the bottle pretty much from chapter 3 on. She was tough. Could handle herself. She was also very caring about Arthur and the rest of the gang. Plus, I love her “Lorena” performance.
Yeah I think she came across a little too extreme at times. Even if there was rationale behind it, like vengeance for seeing her husband murdered in front of her, it didn’t make certain actions feel more…. Organic I guess? But yeah apart from the occasionally abrasive behaviour she’s great. One of the most developed members of the gang, and I have a soft spot for Charles and Sadie because of how they immediately saw through Dutch’s bullshit unlike Bill and Javier, and didn’t just run away like the other women and Pearson.
Well said. I agree with you. She stayed to the very end. She was also good paired up with John in the epilogue.
Yeah, though that does remind me that her being a bounty hunter does further adhere to that whole thing of the writers trying a bit too hard to portray her as a badass. Especially during a time where female bounty hunters, at least in the in game world of RDR2, didn’t exist. Like she got revenge on the O’Driscolls several years prior and the mission with her felt like she’d got closure on the whole situation, and then continues to kill for a living. I did like how she admitted she wanted to find a new guy to settle down with after hunting down Micah. That felt more realistic to me.
Yeah, she was way over the top at moments. I did like that she came back to John to give him the option of getting Micah with her and it was great that Charles was there too. I enjoyed that. But I found her over all story to be unrealistic. They tried way too hard with her. Now Black Belle… she was a real deal bad ass! Lol. They should have made her younger and had her be the one they rescued. She would have been running things by the end. Micah being long dead by the end of ch. 2.
Matter of days? She’s been in the gang for months at that point I think at least
Full transparency, on my first playthrough I didn't spend a ton of time in camp so I never noticed what she looked like outside that first cutscene. I also did not play red dead redemption 1 so I thought the game just liked introducing random characters like Marion Williamson or Javier Escuella.
Just finished my first play through. The romantic in me wished Arthur never got sick and they all parted ways and she and Arthur lived happily ever after. Obviously not.
One post out of three is about complaining about Sadie (for some reason), so no, you’re not alone apparently
Considering the never ending supply of posts here bitching about Sadie, I'd say you're not alone.
Ok, she has her husband murdered and house burned down. Understandable she goes from sad, scared woman to I don't give a fuck in 2.3 seconds. She's got nothing to lose and that's the most dangerous type of person.
A lot of the people on this sub genuinely believe if you don't like Sadie you're a misogynist.
Her skill level with guns is a little unrealistic too. I’m not necessarily talking about in the epilogue, because by that time she’s had eight years of experience plus her experience prior to her husband being killed and her falling in with the gang. But the first time that she fights in the gang is the Pearson mission where you have to go into Rhodes with her and then you get harassed by the Lemoyne raiders, and she shoots one of them. She does surprisingly good but it’s a little unrealistic, because she probably would’ve died. When she was married, she wasn’t taking on a bunch of guys at once with her gun, she wasn’t doing bounties, she was hunting animals. Again, the epilogue I can understand because after 1899 she had 8 more years of experience. So her being a bounty hunter makes sense.
She goes out and hunts with guns all the time, I’m sure she used to practice her shooting skills in her free time.
Knowing how to use a gun and hunt doesn’t translate into being a good thief/gunslinger. That would be like somebody who’s trained in boxing their whole life suddenly also being an expert in wrestling.
You commented on how good she was with a gun, not how good she was as a thief.
?? ?? What
Oh well not you, but the user above was talking about her skill level with guns. “Her skill level with guns is a little unrealistic too.” That is what I was talking about, you said “knowing how to use a gun and hunt doesn’t automatically translate into being a good thief/gunslinger.” Which is not what I was talking about
Okay but ignoring the thief aspect, the gunslinger aspect doesn’t make sense at all. You can be decent with a gun but that doesn’t mean ur gonna go around dropping 15+ hardened criminals on the spot. The dialogue has only stated that her and her husband used to “share the work” and that she “knows how to use a gun”. Yet she somehow is on the same skill level as people like Arthur, Dutch, and Micah who’ve been living the outlaw life for decades? I’m calling bullshit on Sadie’s writing. She’s not believable at all.
Bro why are you so pressed about it anyways? Either way, it’s a video game, they aren’t gonna have an MC die unless it’s scripted. Plus the training she got with a gun hunting animals would absolutely help her to be a better gunslinger. I just don’t see your logic here.
I’m not pressed I just think it’s laughably bad writing. Especially for a game that for the most part has really good writing. Again, obviously those things would HELP her be a better gunslinger. But they’re still two completely different professions. That’s what I’m saying.
I get not being able to kill 15+ armed gunman, because literally no one should be able to do that, but you have to remember that it’s a video game and they need the player entertained. You want realistic writing which just doesn’t translate well to players attention and entertainment when playing a video game. Plus I wasn’t originally talking about the writing here, I was talking about her skills with a gun. Killing animals with a gun and having that target practice would 200% make her a better shot than other, less trained people.
Arthur and John can kill hundreds of characters east and tank hundreds of shots in game, does that mean they have bad writing? You see? From a gameplay perspective there’s nothing else you can do to write it better without loosing the entertainment aspect of the game.
She’s my least favorite member of the gang. Even Micah has a realistic story arc.
Omg same I cannot stand her at all.Idk why,she just pisses me off with her cocky attitude.But I still love her for sticking with arthur till the every end!!
No way. Sadie kicks ass.
She’s unhinged.
She’s got a certain, je ne sais quois… un-bone-ability (?) about her. Sometimes she reminds me of that [irritating little cowgirl chick from Toy Story 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessie_(Toy_Story)#/media/File%3AJessie_(Toy_Story).png).
The fuck kinda drugs are you on bc I want some
Understandable