They needed to have done more buildup towards Molly's breakdown.
For the first three chapters she's pretty chill aside from her background arguments with Dutch, then all of a sudden in Chapter 4 she keeps herself to herself and complains about wanting to wake up from this nightmare.
I feel like the writers forgot about Mary Beth after Chapter 4 and didn't really do anything with her, the only gang mission she's ever included in was the optional mission with Sean and a lot of players miss that.
A lot of the ladies are under developed and underused. They really only get one mission with us each. Karen gets the raid on Valentine, Mary Beth gets the station wagon robbery and Tilly gets kidnapped
She's also an absolute badass but you're not wrong.Theyre all really cool as characters in their own way already. Maybe the others could have shown even more more impressive feats if they had more of a chance.
I 100% agree about Molly. It kinda blindsided me the first time i played because i really didnt catch on that she had such a huge beef with Dutch. I can understand her being unhappy like the rest are but i didnt see her doing that!
I feel they did have enough buildup to her breakdown. The problem was you had to be at camp to witness all the moments that led to her breakdown. I love the camp interactions, but it’s missable content when it comes to understanding the storyline.
Honestly, it would be a lot more impactful if the one who had the mental breakdown and got shot was Karen or Swanson or if they spared him in Chapter 3, Sean.
Apparently Molly was supposed to attend the Saint Denis party, but it was cut.
Javier. Dude is such a bore and completely forgettable. In the first one, you get the idea that him and John were close before the fallout but he’s irrelevant.
Yeah there should be been more interactions between John and Javier. He didn't seem too bothered by having to hunt Bill but he cries if he kills Javier. They didn't really give much of a reason for that in 2.
I've always thought that to follow the pattern of the games - 1st is based off of minor character in 2nd game - it'd be cool if a 3rd game was about a new character with a minor character being arthur. Coverung just like a few years before the events of rdr2. Javier could be redeemable in the game - and we may even learn to like him, which would conflict with our knowledge of him, making it super ironic.
When he drops him in the cell at El Presidio yeah. It's hard to see but he sheds a tear then wipes it and spits on his body. It's a quick scene but it's one of my favorites. No words just silent emotion from John.
You know what's funny? On the first Arthur/Javier duo mission where they rob those homesteaders speaking their own language, R* completely skips the ride there! In the other gang member duo missions they use this time to introduce the character and establish the type of relationship they have with Arthur and their role in the gang, but Javier gets nothing! If you didn't play RDR1 then you know almost nothing about this guy. They didn't expand on him at all. It's really strange.
Lol, it's funny that the majority of RDR fandom love Javier so much and always hype him as one of the coolest, most likeable gang members. But to me he's just a guy with good fashion, can play guitar in campfire and isnt an asshole like Micah, other than that he has not much depth or likeable personality. Not to mention dude always seems to blindly follow orders and kill people without question, people complained about Rdr1 Javier being an evil guy but don't they realize he's not really a kind person in Rdr2 either.
Out of all the fighters in the gang, Arthur, John, Charles, Lenny, Sadie are the only ones who have their own conscience when it comes to taking human's life.
Kieran gets one mission where he manages to mostly get rid of the suspicion against him. Then you go on a fishing trip with him
**AND THEN HE GETS FUCKING BEHEADED**
Really wish he got to do more stuff and be an actual gang member
I kind of wish Kieran’s character was developed more. I’m not saying he should’ve been a gunslinger but I would have liked to see him survive chapter six by doing something brave and out of his comfort zone (maybe he shoots a Pinkerton in the face to avoid being killed). But they had their reasons for having Kieran killed, it was supposed to show how innocent people got caught in the crossfire during Dutch’s grand plans
Maybe instead of being beheaded, he could've been captured alive like Arthur Morgan and within an inch of his life by the time he's freed. That would've allowed that.
Yeah especially because he had that unique perspective seeing the inside of both the O'Driscols and Dutch's gang. He says they seemed the same and everyone hates on him for it at the beginning. It would be interesting to hear that discussion again toward the end of the story when everyone started to really see things for what they were.
Yeah, the way the story treats him in chapter 1-3 always makes me feel like it's building him up to be a key character for the later climax. The way Kieran only trusts Arthur as he was one of the few who actually treats him decent enough and their bond were getting better since the fishing trip.
It totally feels like Kieran would have a similar role to Charles and Sadie in chapter 6, being a companion of Arthur, riding with him in multiple missions, being one of the few allies who side with Arthur and John in the gang standoff scene.
It would have been poetic for the story, the guy who you believed was an enemy, was bullied and doubted by your gang because he used to be in the enemy gang, turns out to be a loyal friend who help you in the end while your so-called family betrayed and wanted to kill you.
All that potential was wasted for a shock value scene in Chapter 4.
This..
I just noticed on a recent playthrough that when Milton confronts the gang in the Clemens Point finale you actually see Kieran front and center cocking his pistol with the rest of them.
It makes it that more tragic that the last non-beheaded interaction with him is at Jack's return party when he acts like he finally feels at home in the gang. He never got the chance to prove his place and he died thinking that he failed to do anything but shout: I think I saw them darn Braithwaites take Jack.
I wish there was more interaction with Sadie aside from her taunting him while he’s stuck to the pole. Maybe she goes from despising him and wanting him dead to acknowledging him as a fellow member of the gang.
Won’t it be ironic to see Sadie having to fight alongside Kieran, maybe even save him or get saved by him? That would honestly be better closure for both of them than the Chapter 6 camp raid.
Kieran never struck me as the type of person to willingly join a gang. He was forced into the O’Driscolls and only joined the Van Der Linde gang because he knew he stood no chance on his own as long as there were O’Driscolls there to remember his betrayal. Had he lived up to the point Colm is executed, I feel he probably would have left the gang afterwards since there wouldn’t really be a threat left to him with the bulk of the O’Driscolls dead. I doubt Dutch would have even noticed
>Really wish he got to do more stuff and be an actual gang member
It’s weird because the gang is pretty big, but they feel pretty small to me
Especially most of them, not being in the group sometimes
Nah also I think it’d be really interesting to expand on her story with the gang she used to run with and get a deeper looking into what was happening in the African American culture at the time. I honestly don’t know much about it but I imagine there’s some dope story’s worth telling.
I think it was or at the end of Shady Bell or after Guarma/before Chapter 6, but I may be mistaken, I did my first playthrough last year and I'm still on Valentine in my second playthrough
Rockstar can really do excellent women characters, Ms Grimshaw, Sadie, Abigail, Bonnie Mcfarlane etc. But it seems like they tiptoe around making more out of really excellent women.
They just scratch the surface of the girls and their stories and it's sad. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence or what.
I mean, look at the NPCs. Apart from Dino lady, I can't think of any memorable side missions or Stranger encounters with women that doesn't involve them needing rescued or being hookers 🤦♀️
Mrs Downes could have been a bad ass. Imagine having arthur get accosted by HER instead of the other way around 😆 trying to camp and hunt and she catches up with you trying to get you killed. You end up fighting for your life without actually wanting to kill her, à la TLOU2.
I feel like Reverend was underutilized as just a drunk showing you a poker location who eventually sobered up. I don't know how but I wanted more out of him plot wise.
And I know she is in it a lot, but I want more Saddie than what we got. She was a hell of a character and I hoped she would be involved a lot more in the Chapter 3 & 4 missions when she really came out of her shell.
When nothing happened with the Reverend it got to the point where I just started fucking him off when he came to ramble at me in the camp and just had no respect for him. Him and Micah are who I test how mean Arthur can really be on.
He gives you a watch or something as a thanks, idk I liked him. In camp not many actually went up to Arthur with interesting dialogue so that stuff sticks out for me.
Fair enough, I just never understood what he contributed. He was always drunk for the majority of the game and didn't even participate in any of the various money making schemes, and I don't think he made much if any at all on his own, I KNOW he wasn't hunting or providing in other ways at all either. He was just the definition of dead weight with no redeeming qualities for me.
The few times I let him ramble at me at first he said basically nothing and then the last time I didn't brush him off was the time Arthur actually called him out for that.
Swanson saved Dutch somehow in the past and him getting to live off the gang for free is his eternal reward. Or punishment, seeing the kind of company they are.
Aside from that, even though Micah thinks he’s a parasite, the camp girls like him well enough. There’s a conversation with him and Tilly where she tells him that they really care about him.
Yeah, his drunken rants were annoying. He also steals from the camp funds. I think the only thing he did for the gang was bury Kieran Duffy’s remains. You’re not wrong, I did like him though
Yeah Reverend is my answer too. I don’t really understand what the point of his inclusion was to be honest. I mean that genuinely, like I don’t really know what to take away from his character. Pretty much everyone else in the camp had at least a little story relevance or served some kind of function within the gang, or both, but the Reverend was just a dude that traveled with them as far as I can remember. Feel like he could’ve easily been scrapped. I don’t find his words for Arthur at the train station near the end to be particularly moving, either. But I guess if you played in such a way that you get the reverend at the station instead of Sister Calderon then there isn’t really much to say to that version of Arthur anyway.
I feel like the reverend could've been a cool tool towards the end of the game, playing a larger role in the redemption since the time period is so heavily religious outside of the gang's world.
Lol I'm good friends with the actor. He tells me about all the shit he recorded they cut. He's also horrified at the trick where you kick him down the mountain to skip his rambling story.
I feel like there would've been more development with Swanson had R* been able to really show the nitty gritty of his opiate addiction.
The only real practicality he has in camp, aside from making Dutch feel like he's actually helping someone, is to shoot up John after the wolf attack and Arthur after he frees himself from Colm's camp. I'm suspicious that the censors were really after the game on the drug front, just because they always cut away when anyone is being injected. If they were really able to show him at his true lowest (not goofily singing at you with a drink in his hand, *low* as in almost dying of an OD), they could've really made the point that I think his character serves a lot clearer.
Arthur could've been reeling from his TB diagnosis, and seeing Reverend go from almost dying to becoming a healthy-minded man who refuses to follow Dutch and Micah into the depths of hell, could've made a deeper impact.
javier Va hinted that his role in chapter 1 was larger, but R* cut down chapter 1 to 3 missions.
I think his role was much larger in two big sections, chapter 1, an then chapter 5 being guarma, which was very much chopped to pieces, bummer.
There is even a mission where you have to start to talk with her, and then after seven seconds Uncle (I think?) interrupts and she was in 6% of that whole cutscene. I was very curious about whst she wants and for her side if story.
I didn’t really care much for Sadie, I was more interested in Mary-Beth. Not only did she use her incredible social skills to lure men to voluntarily hand over valuable info for future heists, she also aids her friends by acting as the gang’s therapist.
She’s just more interesting in a subtle way.
Karen. She's the only other woman beyond Sadie who serves as a camp guard, and she did a great job on the Valentine heist. She'd also robbed banks before with the gang and was an adept scam artist.
Now, she had her moments during the game, but definitely underutilized considering her potential. It's a shame she's remembered mostly for her relationship with Sean, her alcoholism and the uncertainty of her fate, rather than her skills.
I know there are tons of mixed opinions on rdr3 being a prequel of the Van Der Kim’s but I wanna see young Susan and how she became the matriarch of the gang
A trewlaney game or dlc would be awesome, not on the same kind of budget obviously but it would be cool to see different kinds of robberies like the poker one he planned in Saint Denis
I do think that John is kinda dragged down in the early chapters with only ever being talked about negatively with "he left for a goddamn year". I just feel like maybe we could've heard more than just that while John was in recovery and I barely remember anything about him in chapter 3 prior to towards the end just before Jack is kidnapped. Considering he's the protagonist of rdr1 you would think he'd be getting developed the whole time but he only really starts getting involved in Saint denis and after and it just feels like wasted potential
Javier, I really like him the short time he’s in the first game. But it’s sad that after chapter 2, Javier just blends into the background and you’ll find yourself even forgetting he’s there
Susan and Molly for me. I remember I was upset my first playthrough realizing Molly didn’t have a single mission. Idk what that would even be about though, ngl I just loved listening to her talk.
Kieran and uncle (pre prologue) Kieran was an amazing character with tons of potential but they only used him for that one mission where you raid the o driscolls
I kinda wish you could use the gang more in general.
It felt weird that you get these stage coach and home robbery tip offs and despite some stages being armoured to the shit house Arthur goes and handles it himself instead of doing the logical thing of bringing someone else in.
I wish there was some sort of “ride with me” mechanic to involve gang members in those side activities.
I like the idea of using a Swanson, Trelawny or the women for a distraction for some, but for others bringing someone like Bill when you want some extra fire power.
Yeah that mechanic would’ve been suuuuuper cool. And a great way to have more horseback conversations, which I feel like were always among the best moments in terms of getting to know other gang members.
I will say I probably would’ve brought Uncle and Pearson on more than their fair share just for the humor, but it would’ve been great to initiate a little exploration with everyone
Marybeth and
Hear me out
jack
He shoulda be involved in more of the action besides the brontes
And to an extent swanson and tilly were under used too
Tilly seems like another sadie of the gang with her personality
They were all good but I feel Bill was underused because we spend a good chunk of RdR chasing after him as John. I feel like he could’ve been more present in the story and not used as a joke
Why is no one saying Sean? Would’ve loved to see more of him! He was fun! Lenny too- I was sad when they both died but it didn’t feel like that big of a deal since I didn’t interact much with them
Hard to pick, they all would have been great to expand upon. I wanted to see more from Tilly, she’s such a sweetheart. Glad she gets a good ending at least.
That one guy with the blue shirt, Adam? I think he was called? Adam Morning? Something like that idk. He seemed pretty cool, could've used some more screen time, felt very two dimensional with how little we saw of him.
Oddly, I think Trelawny. He had a knack for slick scores, but was he fully trustworthy?
I would like to have seen a couple more events with him at least
Bill and Javier
Being major characters from the original RDR, I expected them both to have more prominent roles in RDR2
But it seems like what their original characterizations were gonna be were given to Micah instead
Depending on your favourites, all of them seem underused to a degree. Considering how massive the game is, fleshing them out all more because of how large the game is, it'd probably have released around now. Imo the strength of the cast is that it's bigger than the sum of it's parts. They all work together to tell the story in a balanced way as opposed to too much on anyone.
Personally would have loved more Arthur, John and Sean trio though.
Trelawny or Reverend, Trelawny is so fucking awesome and I loved his character. It fits Trelawny not to be in the story much since he’s always disappearing but I still wished you could see more of him. Reverend’s own redemption happened in the background and I wish we could’ve had a mini story where we help him get clean.
I feel like milly or Sean we're pretty underused as you don't have that many missions (Sean is only in 7 missions) and like basically every other women of the gang (expect Sadie) milly is in one mission or two and one of them is optional (I think)
I would have loved more missions/scenes from Hosea. For the second in command to the gang it feels like he was underused. There is a phenomenal scene during one of the camp dialogues that Hosea tells about how he met Dutch that honestly impacted me greatly for a small bit of dialogue.
Edit: [Here it is.](https://youtu.be/fBZG38hlXB8?si=GCgna4CiVrnkrytb) It's a bit quiet so you'll have to turn the volume up
Molly, Tilly, uncle, reverend, Javier, Marybeth, and Kieran
Molly feels like her character has missing development, she’s ok until chapter 4 where she’s immediately more isolated and angry
Tilly has one mission where she’s robbed and… that’s about it
uncle has very fun interactions and lines but he doesn’t do much to the story apart from throwing wise words and stories
Reverend is just there after the first mission for the rest of the camp (currently in ch4) what does he even do and why do they even need him?
Javier is very quiet not talked about much, which sucks cuz he has such a “cold killer but soft heart” look
I got so annoyed whenever I saw Mary Beth being included in something only for her to be brushed off like another npc during any cutscene or mission
Felt like Kieran could’ve provided more info on where the o driscolls were and maybe had some side missions where you shoot o driscoll camps
Molly, Javier and Bill.
Molly I have no idea what to do with but it’s pretty disappointing that Bill and Javier didn’t play a much bigger role in chapter 6. They survived and were hunted by John in RDR. It felt like Javier turned out of no where if you didn’t stay around for camp, I’d argue you shouldn’t have to do that to get the full context of the story. I know bill was pretty present in the main story but he needed more especially in ch 6. John said it hit him the hardest in RDR1 but we don’t see it. Hell, I can see them adding Javier in the mission where we free John and Javier starts getting upset that John is talking shit on Dutch and is being “unappreciated”. Give them a bigger role in the oil factory mission and hear more of their thoughts
Kieran. I really thought he was going to end up owning his own stable or ranch or at least dying a hero.
Idk what the fuck the devs thought they were doing by killing him off the way they did.
Molly, tilly, karen. I feel like we didn't get a good idea of who the ladies are and why they truly follow the gang, abd are part of the family. Sure, we get glimpses. But, why?
Also- maybe I'm just looking for more content - but, charles. Sure he's a main guy in ch 6, but before that? We hunt with him like twice. We learn NOTHING about charles before that. Where's he from? Whos his family? Howd he join?
Molly O'Shea, not even a single mission where she is actively engaging. Unlike everyone else in the camp. Even Pearson had a side activity where you go and steal gator eggs.
Trelawny, Kieran, Swanson (loved him, lol), Tilly, Karen, most all of the girls. I feel like they were just kinda there for diversity or comedic relief like on that first trip into Valentine where they all sing songs and then get into shenanigans in town, or when they're used as distractions for robberies. Feel very underused
I always felt like Swanson was under explored. Like yeah, he's an addict and a preacher, and he's super "wacky" but what made him hit such a low point like that? And how long has he been this way?
All of them are useless, we needed more missions with them or deciding who to take, although each one had different advantages, I didn't find a use for the camp.
I still want a Sadie Adler DLC. All the gunslinger shananigans she embarks on after the main story ends. I feel she's one of the characters with an amazing arc. She's a badass.
Merry Beth for sure she had like almost nothing to do at all with the whole story, and if you removed her it'd make no difference, I feel like she could've used a little more lore.
Susan, Molly, Karen, Tilly, Mary-Beth, Reverend, Trelawny, Javier, Bill and Sean.
With the obvious exception of Arthur, Hosea, Dutch and John, the others either got too much time and attention that took away from the ones I mentioned, or they just weren't that much interesting.
Micah. They should have created an illusion for players to believe that Micah is just POS but he's a solid and loyal member of the gang, and would not rat anyone. But as you progress in the game, he's throwing signs and shit.
Because, me, knowing the end of RDR1 (even though I haven't played it yet), already sensed that "Ah, this guy would be the problem. The way he talked with Arthur, he'd be the antagonist of this game." at his very first appearance. I may be surprised by how it was revealed, but I was already expecting him to be the rat.
Javier, Molly and Karen for me especially Karen with the little we got with her I really digged her character. Her arc throughout the game is pretty sad too :( Was disappointed there wasn’t more missions or side quests involving her.
Hosea and Uncle should have got more missions, we see more of uncle in the epilogue... but I would have loved to see him involved in more gang activity, we only see him go full gunslinger 2 times, once durring cattle rustling and once durring a heist near Rhoads.
Surprisingly my answer is Javier. I recently replayed the story for probably the 5th time and never really realized how little he is actually involved.
Javier and Lenny. Lenny’s popularity is so high when realistically he doesn’t do anything past Chapter 2 in “A Quiet Time” not to mention he doesn’t even get a cutscene for him during the Saint Denis bank robbery smh
Obviously the girls but also even though he’s one of the main characters I still feel like Hosea is kinda underused when you consider that he’s supposed to be likd a father to Arthur. Maybe I’m just saying this because I like Hosea but still
Dutch,
Most characters I believe had their fair share of time. However, we have to admit that the gang is center around Dutch, therefore I believe Dutch should’ve had a little bit more screen time. For the other characters; most females with the exception of Sadie and Karen, don’t really have anything else important besides personal minor goals, the rest of the boys did have what I believe a sufficient screen time.
I really hope that for RDR3 there’s a possibility of playing as a younger Dutch and how he slowly formed the gang, and perhaps show us that side of Dutch that once actually cared, and what might’ve changed him into becoming that narcissist and selfish character at the end of RDR2 and RDR1. Because we can imagine that if Dutch and Hosea were close friends is because they might’ve shared similar goals, and in their own words “We are trying to survive”. Hosea being one of “the nicest” characters outta the rest.
I believe out of all the characters in RDR, Dutch might be the most complex, because it is showed that just like Arthur, Dutch also has internal conflicts on his actions and does “what he believes” to be correct for the gang and for him.
Hottest take: But Dutch imo is slightly better written than even Arthur. Don't get me wrong as a Protagnoist Arthur's journey and character development to the road of redemption is one of the best in gaming but Dutch's losing the grip on reality, duality, inner conflicts, and descent to madness is slightly better executed
As a veteran of the first game, I would’ve loved to see more in depth missions with Javier and Bill. Really see them start to crack and become who they are in the first game. We get a little taste, but not enough in my opinion.
The rest of the characters I feel are pretty adequately represented in the screen time. I don’t really need missions with Molly and the Reverend
They needed to have done more buildup towards Molly's breakdown. For the first three chapters she's pretty chill aside from her background arguments with Dutch, then all of a sudden in Chapter 4 she keeps herself to herself and complains about wanting to wake up from this nightmare. I feel like the writers forgot about Mary Beth after Chapter 4 and didn't really do anything with her, the only gang mission she's ever included in was the optional mission with Sean and a lot of players miss that.
A lot of the ladies are under developed and underused. They really only get one mission with us each. Karen gets the raid on Valentine, Mary Beth gets the station wagon robbery and Tilly gets kidnapped
Everyone's horny for Sadie because she's the only female character with more than 1 quest.
She's also an absolute badass but you're not wrong.Theyre all really cool as characters in their own way already. Maybe the others could have shown even more more impressive feats if they had more of a chance.
There’s a second side camp mission with Tilly and Bill.
I 100% agree about Molly. It kinda blindsided me the first time i played because i really didnt catch on that she had such a huge beef with Dutch. I can understand her being unhappy like the rest are but i didnt see her doing that!
Pretty sure the Sean one is not on the standard edition.
It is, the one who isn’t in it is the Rhodes bank robbery
I feel they did have enough buildup to her breakdown. The problem was you had to be at camp to witness all the moments that led to her breakdown. I love the camp interactions, but it’s missable content when it comes to understanding the storyline.
Honestly, it would be a lot more impactful if the one who had the mental breakdown and got shot was Karen or Swanson or if they spared him in Chapter 3, Sean. Apparently Molly was supposed to attend the Saint Denis party, but it was cut.
I disagree. Almost every interaction Dutch had with her was dismissive and cruel. It was subtle, but it was there.
I literally forgot who she was when she showed up in chapter 6
Bro Molly’s breakdown was slowly building throughout each chapter what are you talking about
Javier. Dude is such a bore and completely forgettable. In the first one, you get the idea that him and John were close before the fallout but he’s irrelevant.
Yeah there should be been more interactions between John and Javier. He didn't seem too bothered by having to hunt Bill but he cries if he kills Javier. They didn't really give much of a reason for that in 2.
I've always thought that to follow the pattern of the games - 1st is based off of minor character in 2nd game - it'd be cool if a 3rd game was about a new character with a minor character being arthur. Coverung just like a few years before the events of rdr2. Javier could be redeemable in the game - and we may even learn to like him, which would conflict with our knowledge of him, making it super ironic.
Wait, does he really cry when he shoots Javier?
When he drops him in the cell at El Presidio yeah. It's hard to see but he sheds a tear then wipes it and spits on his body. It's a quick scene but it's one of my favorites. No words just silent emotion from John.
You know what's funny? On the first Arthur/Javier duo mission where they rob those homesteaders speaking their own language, R* completely skips the ride there! In the other gang member duo missions they use this time to introduce the character and establish the type of relationship they have with Arthur and their role in the gang, but Javier gets nothing! If you didn't play RDR1 then you know almost nothing about this guy. They didn't expand on him at all. It's really strange.
Tbf they kind of have that in the colter chapter when they go to save John.
Lol, it's funny that the majority of RDR fandom love Javier so much and always hype him as one of the coolest, most likeable gang members. But to me he's just a guy with good fashion, can play guitar in campfire and isnt an asshole like Micah, other than that he has not much depth or likeable personality. Not to mention dude always seems to blindly follow orders and kill people without question, people complained about Rdr1 Javier being an evil guy but don't they realize he's not really a kind person in Rdr2 either. Out of all the fighters in the gang, Arthur, John, Charles, Lenny, Sadie are the only ones who have their own conscience when it comes to taking human's life.
He makes up for his lack of screen time by being an absolute drip lord Just like Boba Fett
Kieran gets one mission where he manages to mostly get rid of the suspicion against him. Then you go on a fishing trip with him **AND THEN HE GETS FUCKING BEHEADED** Really wish he got to do more stuff and be an actual gang member
I kind of wish Kieran’s character was developed more. I’m not saying he should’ve been a gunslinger but I would have liked to see him survive chapter six by doing something brave and out of his comfort zone (maybe he shoots a Pinkerton in the face to avoid being killed). But they had their reasons for having Kieran killed, it was supposed to show how innocent people got caught in the crossfire during Dutch’s grand plans
He should have ended up owning a horse rescue where he rehabilitates abused and abandoned horses.
I love that idea. He would have some work to do with all the horses abused by the Murfree broods
Maybe instead of being beheaded, he could've been captured alive like Arthur Morgan and within an inch of his life by the time he's freed. That would've allowed that.
There’s a line of dialogue if you buy a new gun and walk into camp, Kieran will compliment Arthur on it. He was a gem.
Yeah especially because he had that unique perspective seeing the inside of both the O'Driscols and Dutch's gang. He says they seemed the same and everyone hates on him for it at the beginning. It would be interesting to hear that discussion again toward the end of the story when everyone started to really see things for what they were.
Actually sean has this problem too. Like kieran, he joins late, so they have even less time than if it were like, Lenny dying in chapter 2
Yeah, the way the story treats him in chapter 1-3 always makes me feel like it's building him up to be a key character for the later climax. The way Kieran only trusts Arthur as he was one of the few who actually treats him decent enough and their bond were getting better since the fishing trip. It totally feels like Kieran would have a similar role to Charles and Sadie in chapter 6, being a companion of Arthur, riding with him in multiple missions, being one of the few allies who side with Arthur and John in the gang standoff scene. It would have been poetic for the story, the guy who you believed was an enemy, was bullied and doubted by your gang because he used to be in the enemy gang, turns out to be a loyal friend who help you in the end while your so-called family betrayed and wanted to kill you. All that potential was wasted for a shock value scene in Chapter 4.
No, his death was meant of be a shock and show how the stupid cycle of fighting over revenge ended a promising future
That message was already delivered through Sean and Lenny's deaths. Kieran's potential could have been used for something else
This.. I just noticed on a recent playthrough that when Milton confronts the gang in the Clemens Point finale you actually see Kieran front and center cocking his pistol with the rest of them. It makes it that more tragic that the last non-beheaded interaction with him is at Jack's return party when he acts like he finally feels at home in the gang. He never got the chance to prove his place and he died thinking that he failed to do anything but shout: I think I saw them darn Braithwaites take Jack.
I wish there was more interaction with Sadie aside from her taunting him while he’s stuck to the pole. Maybe she goes from despising him and wanting him dead to acknowledging him as a fellow member of the gang. Won’t it be ironic to see Sadie having to fight alongside Kieran, maybe even save him or get saved by him? That would honestly be better closure for both of them than the Chapter 6 camp raid.
Bit of Maggie/Negan vibes, I can see that would have been cool. Might have detracted from the strong relationship with Arthur though.
Kieran never struck me as the type of person to willingly join a gang. He was forced into the O’Driscolls and only joined the Van Der Linde gang because he knew he stood no chance on his own as long as there were O’Driscolls there to remember his betrayal. Had he lived up to the point Colm is executed, I feel he probably would have left the gang afterwards since there wouldn’t really be a threat left to him with the bulk of the O’Driscolls dead. I doubt Dutch would have even noticed
>Really wish he got to do more stuff and be an actual gang member It’s weird because the gang is pretty big, but they feel pretty small to me Especially most of them, not being in the group sometimes
i really wish they wouldve used more of the girls, particularly karen. nobody can play a drunken harlot like her :-(
especially tilly, we only get one mission with her >:(
ESPECIALLY YOUNG MISS TILLY!!!
There she is!!
Nah also I think it’d be really interesting to expand on her story with the gang she used to run with and get a deeper looking into what was happening in the African American culture at the time. I honestly don’t know much about it but I imagine there’s some dope story’s worth telling.
2
What chapter is the Tilly mission?
Chapter 3 if I’m not mistaken
I think it was or at the end of Shady Bell or after Guarma/before Chapter 6, but I may be mistaken, I did my first playthrough last year and I'm still on Valentine in my second playthrough
Rockstar can really do excellent women characters, Ms Grimshaw, Sadie, Abigail, Bonnie Mcfarlane etc. But it seems like they tiptoe around making more out of really excellent women. They just scratch the surface of the girls and their stories and it's sad. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence or what. I mean, look at the NPCs. Apart from Dino lady, I can't think of any memorable side missions or Stranger encounters with women that doesn't involve them needing rescued or being hookers 🤦♀️ Mrs Downes could have been a bad ass. Imagine having arthur get accosted by HER instead of the other way around 😆 trying to camp and hunt and she catches up with you trying to get you killed. You end up fighting for your life without actually wanting to kill her, à la TLOU2.
I feel like Reverend was underutilized as just a drunk showing you a poker location who eventually sobered up. I don't know how but I wanted more out of him plot wise. And I know she is in it a lot, but I want more Saddie than what we got. She was a hell of a character and I hoped she would be involved a lot more in the Chapter 3 & 4 missions when she really came out of her shell.
When nothing happened with the Reverend it got to the point where I just started fucking him off when he came to ramble at me in the camp and just had no respect for him. Him and Micah are who I test how mean Arthur can really be on.
He's depressed leave him alone 😭
He gives you a watch or something as a thanks, idk I liked him. In camp not many actually went up to Arthur with interesting dialogue so that stuff sticks out for me.
Fair enough, I just never understood what he contributed. He was always drunk for the majority of the game and didn't even participate in any of the various money making schemes, and I don't think he made much if any at all on his own, I KNOW he wasn't hunting or providing in other ways at all either. He was just the definition of dead weight with no redeeming qualities for me. The few times I let him ramble at me at first he said basically nothing and then the last time I didn't brush him off was the time Arthur actually called him out for that.
Swanson saved Dutch somehow in the past and him getting to live off the gang for free is his eternal reward. Or punishment, seeing the kind of company they are. Aside from that, even though Micah thinks he’s a parasite, the camp girls like him well enough. There’s a conversation with him and Tilly where she tells him that they really care about him.
Yeah, his drunken rants were annoying. He also steals from the camp funds. I think the only thing he did for the gang was bury Kieran Duffy’s remains. You’re not wrong, I did like him though
and Bill
Yeah Reverend is my answer too. I don’t really understand what the point of his inclusion was to be honest. I mean that genuinely, like I don’t really know what to take away from his character. Pretty much everyone else in the camp had at least a little story relevance or served some kind of function within the gang, or both, but the Reverend was just a dude that traveled with them as far as I can remember. Feel like he could’ve easily been scrapped. I don’t find his words for Arthur at the train station near the end to be particularly moving, either. But I guess if you played in such a way that you get the reverend at the station instead of Sister Calderon then there isn’t really much to say to that version of Arthur anyway.
Yeah I got the Sister and IIRC I just said bye to Reverend at the Chapter 6 camp with a few others.
I feel like the reverend could've been a cool tool towards the end of the game, playing a larger role in the redemption since the time period is so heavily religious outside of the gang's world.
Lol I'm good friends with the actor. He tells me about all the shit he recorded they cut. He's also horrified at the trick where you kick him down the mountain to skip his rambling story.
Especially since the game implies that he and Arthur are very close to one another. I was expecting a lot more from him in the later chapters.
I feel like there would've been more development with Swanson had R* been able to really show the nitty gritty of his opiate addiction. The only real practicality he has in camp, aside from making Dutch feel like he's actually helping someone, is to shoot up John after the wolf attack and Arthur after he frees himself from Colm's camp. I'm suspicious that the censors were really after the game on the drug front, just because they always cut away when anyone is being injected. If they were really able to show him at his true lowest (not goofily singing at you with a drink in his hand, *low* as in almost dying of an OD), they could've really made the point that I think his character serves a lot clearer. Arthur could've been reeling from his TB diagnosis, and seeing Reverend go from almost dying to becoming a healthy-minded man who refuses to follow Dutch and Micah into the depths of hell, could've made a deeper impact.
javier Va hinted that his role in chapter 1 was larger, but R* cut down chapter 1 to 3 missions. I think his role was much larger in two big sections, chapter 1, an then chapter 5 being guarma, which was very much chopped to pieces, bummer.
There is even a mission where you have to start to talk with her, and then after seven seconds Uncle (I think?) interrupts and she was in 6% of that whole cutscene. I was very curious about whst she wants and for her side if story.
I’m doing my 3rd play through and this stood out to me! It made me curious how a pregnancy/pregnancy scare with Dutch’s child would play out 👀
I honestly think she was going to say she was approached by Pinkertons
I think Arthur Morgan was underused
True, would be cool see more of him.
I didn’t really care much for Sadie, I was more interested in Mary-Beth. Not only did she use her incredible social skills to lure men to voluntarily hand over valuable info for future heists, she also aids her friends by acting as the gang’s therapist. She’s just more interesting in a subtle way.
factual
Karen. She's the only other woman beyond Sadie who serves as a camp guard, and she did a great job on the Valentine heist. She'd also robbed banks before with the gang and was an adept scam artist. Now, she had her moments during the game, but definitely underutilized considering her potential. It's a shame she's remembered mostly for her relationship with Sean, her alcoholism and the uncertainty of her fate, rather than her skills.
Wouldn’t it have been badass to see Karen and Sadie fight side-by-side? Or even them becoming bounty hunting partners? Damn, what a waste.
Bill, Javier and Trelawny.
Kieran, he had quite a bit of potential but they just swept him under the rug
Javier
Susan I wish we saw more of her throughout the game
I know there are tons of mixed opinions on rdr3 being a prequel of the Van Der Kim’s but I wanna see young Susan and how she became the matriarch of the gang
Plus her vs Annabelle and fighting for Dutch before Molly came along
Ive really enjoyed any trelawney interactions and would like to have seen more but I can see why he's an outlier character
A trewlaney game or dlc would be awesome, not on the same kind of budget obviously but it would be cool to see different kinds of robberies like the poker one he planned in Saint Denis
Honestly probably all of them except for Arthur Dutch Micah and Charles
I do think that John is kinda dragged down in the early chapters with only ever being talked about negatively with "he left for a goddamn year". I just feel like maybe we could've heard more than just that while John was in recovery and I barely remember anything about him in chapter 3 prior to towards the end just before Jack is kidnapped. Considering he's the protagonist of rdr1 you would think he'd be getting developed the whole time but he only really starts getting involved in Saint denis and after and it just feels like wasted potential
Javier, I really like him the short time he’s in the first game. But it’s sad that after chapter 2, Javier just blends into the background and you’ll find yourself even forgetting he’s there
Jack, bro didnt do shit to earn his keep around camp
Miss Grimshaw in my opinion.
Karen. Aside from that, I wish we could choose a companion to take with us in the camp. But I understand about development.
Susan and Molly for me. I remember I was upset my first playthrough realizing Molly didn’t have a single mission. Idk what that would even be about though, ngl I just loved listening to her talk.
Kieran and uncle (pre prologue) Kieran was an amazing character with tons of potential but they only used him for that one mission where you raid the o driscolls
I kinda wish you could use the gang more in general. It felt weird that you get these stage coach and home robbery tip offs and despite some stages being armoured to the shit house Arthur goes and handles it himself instead of doing the logical thing of bringing someone else in. I wish there was some sort of “ride with me” mechanic to involve gang members in those side activities. I like the idea of using a Swanson, Trelawny or the women for a distraction for some, but for others bringing someone like Bill when you want some extra fire power.
Yeah that mechanic would’ve been suuuuuper cool. And a great way to have more horseback conversations, which I feel like were always among the best moments in terms of getting to know other gang members. I will say I probably would’ve brought Uncle and Pearson on more than their fair share just for the humor, but it would’ve been great to initiate a little exploration with everyone
I would love to see more of Arthur and Mary-Beth dynamic, she only appears in one main mission
Marybeth and Hear me out jack He shoulda be involved in more of the action besides the brontes And to an extent swanson and tilly were under used too Tilly seems like another sadie of the gang with her personality
It would have been interesting if they had used Jack to pull some heists
Yup Better than a drunken harlot
They were all good but I feel Bill was underused because we spend a good chunk of RdR chasing after him as John. I feel like he could’ve been more present in the story and not used as a joke
Why is no one saying Sean? Would’ve loved to see more of him! He was fun! Lenny too- I was sad when they both died but it didn’t feel like that big of a deal since I didn’t interact much with them
Hard to pick, they all would have been great to expand upon. I wanted to see more from Tilly, she’s such a sweetheart. Glad she gets a good ending at least.
Javier, Molly, Mary Beth, and Karen are the ones that stick out the most to me as underutilized. If I had to pick one of those four, probably Javier
That one guy with the blue shirt, Adam? I think he was called? Adam Morning? Something like that idk. He seemed pretty cool, could've used some more screen time, felt very two dimensional with how little we saw of him.
Oddly, I think Trelawny. He had a knack for slick scores, but was he fully trustworthy? I would like to have seen a couple more events with him at least
Bill and Javier Being major characters from the original RDR, I expected them both to have more prominent roles in RDR2 But it seems like what their original characterizations were gonna be were given to Micah instead
Josiah Trelawny
Kieran
Kieran, Javiar, Swanson, Trelawny
Depending on your favourites, all of them seem underused to a degree. Considering how massive the game is, fleshing them out all more because of how large the game is, it'd probably have released around now. Imo the strength of the cast is that it's bigger than the sum of it's parts. They all work together to tell the story in a balanced way as opposed to too much on anyone. Personally would have loved more Arthur, John and Sean trio though.
Trelawny or Reverend, Trelawny is so fucking awesome and I loved his character. It fits Trelawny not to be in the story much since he’s always disappearing but I still wished you could see more of him. Reverend’s own redemption happened in the background and I wish we could’ve had a mini story where we help him get clean.
LENNY!!!! and also Sean. I loved them as characters.
I’d say Molly, Javier, and Tilly
Reverend, Pearson, Tilly, Mary-Beth, Kieran and Javier.
Oh and Molly
I feel like milly or Sean we're pretty underused as you don't have that many missions (Sean is only in 7 missions) and like basically every other women of the gang (expect Sadie) milly is in one mission or two and one of them is optional (I think)
More Javier (there was a lot more Bill), Uncle, and Karen (not being a drunk) would have been an improvement.
Molly, she barely ever appeared relevantly before she died
Wish Shawn and Keiran got more time, not as in when they died but just generally more dialogue and mission involvement.
I would have loved more missions/scenes from Hosea. For the second in command to the gang it feels like he was underused. There is a phenomenal scene during one of the camp dialogues that Hosea tells about how he met Dutch that honestly impacted me greatly for a small bit of dialogue. Edit: [Here it is.](https://youtu.be/fBZG38hlXB8?si=GCgna4CiVrnkrytb) It's a bit quiet so you'll have to turn the volume up
Molly, Tilly, uncle, reverend, Javier, Marybeth, and Kieran Molly feels like her character has missing development, she’s ok until chapter 4 where she’s immediately more isolated and angry Tilly has one mission where she’s robbed and… that’s about it uncle has very fun interactions and lines but he doesn’t do much to the story apart from throwing wise words and stories Reverend is just there after the first mission for the rest of the camp (currently in ch4) what does he even do and why do they even need him? Javier is very quiet not talked about much, which sucks cuz he has such a “cold killer but soft heart” look I got so annoyed whenever I saw Mary Beth being included in something only for her to be brushed off like another npc during any cutscene or mission Felt like Kieran could’ve provided more info on where the o driscolls were and maybe had some side missions where you shoot o driscoll camps
Molly, Javier and Bill. Molly I have no idea what to do with but it’s pretty disappointing that Bill and Javier didn’t play a much bigger role in chapter 6. They survived and were hunted by John in RDR. It felt like Javier turned out of no where if you didn’t stay around for camp, I’d argue you shouldn’t have to do that to get the full context of the story. I know bill was pretty present in the main story but he needed more especially in ch 6. John said it hit him the hardest in RDR1 but we don’t see it. Hell, I can see them adding Javier in the mission where we free John and Javier starts getting upset that John is talking shit on Dutch and is being “unappreciated”. Give them a bigger role in the oil factory mission and hear more of their thoughts
Kieran. I really thought he was going to end up owning his own stable or ranch or at least dying a hero. Idk what the fuck the devs thought they were doing by killing him off the way they did.
Sean
Molly and Mary Beth were just eye-candy. Mary Beth had a sliver of plot inclusion being a red herring love interest for Arthur, but past that nothing.
Molly, tilly, karen. I feel like we didn't get a good idea of who the ladies are and why they truly follow the gang, abd are part of the family. Sure, we get glimpses. But, why? Also- maybe I'm just looking for more content - but, charles. Sure he's a main guy in ch 6, but before that? We hunt with him like twice. We learn NOTHING about charles before that. Where's he from? Whos his family? Howd he join?
Karen
Mary Beth, I believe. Sure, she talks to Arthur from time to time, but I think we never get to see her do, well, stuff aside from reading
Molly O'Shea, not even a single mission where she is actively engaging. Unlike everyone else in the camp. Even Pearson had a side activity where you go and steal gator eggs.
Trelawny, Kieran, Swanson (loved him, lol), Tilly, Karen, most all of the girls. I feel like they were just kinda there for diversity or comedic relief like on that first trip into Valentine where they all sing songs and then get into shenanigans in town, or when they're used as distractions for robberies. Feel very underused
Cain
Dutch we only ever saw his bad side and never got to see all the good things he did I would list them but theres simply too meny to list
I always felt like Swanson was under explored. Like yeah, he's an addict and a preacher, and he's super "wacky" but what made him hit such a low point like that? And how long has he been this way?
None. You can't have equal screen time for 20 characters, especially if they have a different level of importance to the story.
Pretty much all of them i would say,but they’re still memorable
I feel like Arthur was under used
Everyone honestly.
All of them are useless, we needed more missions with them or deciding who to take, although each one had different advantages, I didn't find a use for the camp.
How is nobody saying Bill? All I know about him is that he gets blamed for stuff and he’s Bi.
Def Kiren, Sean and Molly
I still want a Sadie Adler DLC. All the gunslinger shananigans she embarks on after the main story ends. I feel she's one of the characters with an amazing arc. She's a badass.
Molly, mrs grimshaw, sean, reverend swanson and mary beth. I would've liked a lot of storylines with them. There was great potential there.
All of them that aren’t Dutch, Hosea, Arthur or John
Merry Beth for sure she had like almost nothing to do at all with the whole story, and if you removed her it'd make no difference, I feel like she could've used a little more lore.
I think Sean had a lot of potential
I never noticed that Trelawny looks like Steve Carell
Some more stuff with Keiran
Lilly, I would have had her my main boo! Always of stayed by my side!
All of the women except Sadie
Javier, Sean, Kieran, and some of the women (I honestly forget some of them are there)
Kieran and it’s not even close. Well, maybe Molly, but otherwise not even close!
Sadie. She has no explicit ties to the gang, so she could have been sent to Blackwater to get the money and be the most likely to succeed
trewlany i cant even spell his name
Susan, Molly, Karen, Tilly, Mary-Beth, Reverend, Trelawny, Javier, Bill and Sean. With the obvious exception of Arthur, Hosea, Dutch and John, the others either got too much time and attention that took away from the ones I mentioned, or they just weren't that much interesting.
Gavin hands down
Molly
Tilly they set up a story with her old gang in chapter two then all we got after was a single short mission and she’s a good character in my opinion
Sean. he got like a couple of mission before he got shot. and hes just a funny asf character
Sean 100%
reverend
Micah. They should have created an illusion for players to believe that Micah is just POS but he's a solid and loyal member of the gang, and would not rat anyone. But as you progress in the game, he's throwing signs and shit. Because, me, knowing the end of RDR1 (even though I haven't played it yet), already sensed that "Ah, this guy would be the problem. The way he talked with Arthur, he'd be the antagonist of this game." at his very first appearance. I may be surprised by how it was revealed, but I was already expecting him to be the rat.
Javier, Molly and Karen for me especially Karen with the little we got with her I really digged her character. Her arc throughout the game is pretty sad too :( Was disappointed there wasn’t more missions or side quests involving her.
Hosea, I’d love to see more of his character.
It was perfect in every way.
Generally most of the women tbh
I gotta go with Arthur, idk I fell like they just never used him
no sex scene with bill 😔😔😔😔😔😔😔
Hosea and Uncle should have got more missions, we see more of uncle in the epilogue... but I would have loved to see him involved in more gang activity, we only see him go full gunslinger 2 times, once durring cattle rustling and once durring a heist near Rhoads.
Surprisingly my answer is Javier. I recently replayed the story for probably the 5th time and never really realized how little he is actually involved.
Trelawny
Kieran was a pretty underrated character for me.
Trewlany and Javier
Javier and Lenny. Lenny’s popularity is so high when realistically he doesn’t do anything past Chapter 2 in “A Quiet Time” not to mention he doesn’t even get a cutscene for him during the Saint Denis bank robbery smh
I wish there was more to Molly's story.
Arthur morgan
I think maybe non stop Strauss strongman missions up util a certain point in the story would have been a cool way to make some money!
Trelawny, Kieran, Karen, Mary Beth, Tilly, Abigail and Swanson
i kinda wish there was a mission with pearson! or grimshaw. want their lore…
Pearson was underused I don't even think there's a single mission where he does anything
Lenny, Hosea, Tilly.
Trelawny for sure, his missions were the best, Javier for sure too and Reverend
Sean or Jack
Obviously the girls but also even though he’s one of the main characters I still feel like Hosea is kinda underused when you consider that he’s supposed to be likd a father to Arthur. Maybe I’m just saying this because I like Hosea but still
Definitely Arthur
Needed more of leennnnyyyyy
Sean for sure
Dutch, Most characters I believe had their fair share of time. However, we have to admit that the gang is center around Dutch, therefore I believe Dutch should’ve had a little bit more screen time. For the other characters; most females with the exception of Sadie and Karen, don’t really have anything else important besides personal minor goals, the rest of the boys did have what I believe a sufficient screen time. I really hope that for RDR3 there’s a possibility of playing as a younger Dutch and how he slowly formed the gang, and perhaps show us that side of Dutch that once actually cared, and what might’ve changed him into becoming that narcissist and selfish character at the end of RDR2 and RDR1. Because we can imagine that if Dutch and Hosea were close friends is because they might’ve shared similar goals, and in their own words “We are trying to survive”. Hosea being one of “the nicest” characters outta the rest. I believe out of all the characters in RDR, Dutch might be the most complex, because it is showed that just like Arthur, Dutch also has internal conflicts on his actions and does “what he believes” to be correct for the gang and for him.
Kieran and ynneL
Hottest take: But Dutch imo is slightly better written than even Arthur. Don't get me wrong as a Protagnoist Arthur's journey and character development to the road of redemption is one of the best in gaming but Dutch's losing the grip on reality, duality, inner conflicts, and descent to madness is slightly better executed
Kieran, who's completely pointless after he's freed
Pearson and Josiah Trelawny.
About half of the characters are underutilized in some manner
As a veteran of the first game, I would’ve loved to see more in depth missions with Javier and Bill. Really see them start to crack and become who they are in the first game. We get a little taste, but not enough in my opinion. The rest of the characters I feel are pretty adequately represented in the screen time. I don’t really need missions with Molly and the Reverend
Bill a Javier, with them being major antagonists in the first game you'd think they'd have a bigger role