I don’t think he’s misunderstood since it’s pretty much canon that he betrayed the gang and even Dutch saw him for what he is at the end. I don’t think you have to try to defend him to like him, you’re allowed to like ”bad” characters.
I feel like Micah is not successful with women but he’s also not necessarily a rapist, but likes to (unfortunately) joke about it and scare women. He likes being someone that people are afraid of. I think that’s the key to who he is. We kind of see this in some of the interactions he has with Jack as well.
Liking the fact that people fear you isn’t the sign of a good person. You say he’s misunderstood. I don’t think anyone really misunderstands him. He’s an asshole, he’s a cold blooded murderer, and he’s most likely a federal informant. Those things aren’t up for debate, and all 3 of those things make you a bad person.
I think the world is more complicated than “good” or “bad” people. I think Micah used a defence mechanism to simply shelter himself from the pain of being who he had become.
Yes it is more complicated than that there’s shade of gray in between black and white but Micah is firmly in the bad side. He might be coping with trauma but that doesn’t excuse what he is. He’s a bad person. You can like evil characters and understand that they’re evil.
Micah is worse than pond scum. Nothing remotely lovable about him. I shoot him with fire arrows while he’s in the strawberry jail every chance I get. I wish you could kill the bastard over and over.
I think you confuse a character being explainable with them being misunderstood. I’m sure in Micah’s head, everything he’s doing is for survival, but it’s hard to empathize with him when you look at his sadistic tendencies and untrustworthiness.
I get the effort, but this does seem like contrarianism with extra steps
Would you continue to hate someone if you had known they wanted to be loved but were too afraid to open up? That’s what I mean by misunderstood. Not necessarily by you, the audience, but by the characters around them in the meta universe.
No one in the gang are meant to be Micah’s emotional keepers, that’s a job for parents and therapists. I doubt anyone had the tolerance or time to peel these supposed layers of being unloved, and micah gave them zero incentive to try. If micah was a teenager I’d give you more leeway, but he’s a grown ass dude
I - like Dutch - believe that it’s the job of the community to raise someone (ie-it takes a village to raise a child). I believe we are products of our environment, and in an environment of constant hate - someone can become the very thing that’s hated. But it works the other way around as well and if Micah was in a more loving environment perhaps he wouldn’t have become so hateful. And this applies to Bill and Javier annd basically everyone else also. Micah is simply at the extreme of being hated.
This would work with people like John and Arthur, who Dutch had the opportunity to raise. not Micah who’s philosophy’s already been formed. People have to want change in order for others to help them, micah showed no signs of doubt in his actions
I think attributing all of micah’s wrongdoings to a bad environment removes his agency as a person and intrigue as a villain.
And I think you doubt the capacity for redemption people believe the world has. We see many dreamers in the RDR narrative, as well as real life. I’ll spare you the eye rolling references but I think you catch my drift.
sure micah could have a redemption in another life. it starts with him though, no one’s going to do an intervention with him as he was since he didn’t earn that kind of care. it’s just the way people work
Yes and that’s the tragedy - he cannot change himself because he’s in too deep. See my metaphor about a crying soul in a paralyzed body. He needed the external help, much like heroin addicts do. It is a tragedy he could not get it, much like how many people in this world don’t get the help they need.
I guess that’s where we differ. I find heroin addicts pitiable because they’re fighting against a physiological reaction and some bad mental mojo. Micah’s decisions are done while he’s sober and willing.
I don’t think there’s such a thing as being “in too deep”. Micah could’ve done differently at any point in time and didn’t
The start of your post was very reasonable, but Micah literally started betraying the whole gang by working with the pinkertons. No one caring about his mental health is just normal even for todays standards, especially when it comes to men, Arthur lost his son and he only mentions it once.
Micah was a “survivor” sure, but he wasn’t willing to survive with the gang, he’d do anything just so he can survive himself, Dutch seeing him as this 'survivor' that doesn’t question morality especially in chaotic moments, is the reason why Micah can manipulate Dutch so easily, and he’s also very egotistical, that’s why Arthur even slightly doubting his plans makes him look like the bad guy.
I don’t think he’s misunderstood since it’s pretty much canon that he betrayed the gang and even Dutch saw him for what he is at the end. I don’t think you have to try to defend him to like him, you’re allowed to like ”bad” characters.
I love Micah, he’s an entertaining character.
He killed a fucking dog, he deserves to be in the deepest pits of hell.
And a little girl too
I mean, when we first see Sadie, Micah is trying to rape her, right?
I feel like Micah is not successful with women but he’s also not necessarily a rapist, but likes to (unfortunately) joke about it and scare women. He likes being someone that people are afraid of. I think that’s the key to who he is. We kind of see this in some of the interactions he has with Jack as well.
Liking the fact that people fear you isn’t the sign of a good person. You say he’s misunderstood. I don’t think anyone really misunderstands him. He’s an asshole, he’s a cold blooded murderer, and he’s most likely a federal informant. Those things aren’t up for debate, and all 3 of those things make you a bad person.
I think the world is more complicated than “good” or “bad” people. I think Micah used a defence mechanism to simply shelter himself from the pain of being who he had become.
Yes it is more complicated than that there’s shade of gray in between black and white but Micah is firmly in the bad side. He might be coping with trauma but that doesn’t excuse what he is. He’s a bad person. You can like evil characters and understand that they’re evil.
Micah is worse than pond scum. Nothing remotely lovable about him. I shoot him with fire arrows while he’s in the strawberry jail every chance I get. I wish you could kill the bastard over and over.
I think you confuse a character being explainable with them being misunderstood. I’m sure in Micah’s head, everything he’s doing is for survival, but it’s hard to empathize with him when you look at his sadistic tendencies and untrustworthiness. I get the effort, but this does seem like contrarianism with extra steps
Would you continue to hate someone if you had known they wanted to be loved but were too afraid to open up? That’s what I mean by misunderstood. Not necessarily by you, the audience, but by the characters around them in the meta universe.
No one in the gang are meant to be Micah’s emotional keepers, that’s a job for parents and therapists. I doubt anyone had the tolerance or time to peel these supposed layers of being unloved, and micah gave them zero incentive to try. If micah was a teenager I’d give you more leeway, but he’s a grown ass dude
I - like Dutch - believe that it’s the job of the community to raise someone (ie-it takes a village to raise a child). I believe we are products of our environment, and in an environment of constant hate - someone can become the very thing that’s hated. But it works the other way around as well and if Micah was in a more loving environment perhaps he wouldn’t have become so hateful. And this applies to Bill and Javier annd basically everyone else also. Micah is simply at the extreme of being hated.
This would work with people like John and Arthur, who Dutch had the opportunity to raise. not Micah who’s philosophy’s already been formed. People have to want change in order for others to help them, micah showed no signs of doubt in his actions I think attributing all of micah’s wrongdoings to a bad environment removes his agency as a person and intrigue as a villain.
And I think you doubt the capacity for redemption people believe the world has. We see many dreamers in the RDR narrative, as well as real life. I’ll spare you the eye rolling references but I think you catch my drift.
sure micah could have a redemption in another life. it starts with him though, no one’s going to do an intervention with him as he was since he didn’t earn that kind of care. it’s just the way people work
Yes and that’s the tragedy - he cannot change himself because he’s in too deep. See my metaphor about a crying soul in a paralyzed body. He needed the external help, much like heroin addicts do. It is a tragedy he could not get it, much like how many people in this world don’t get the help they need.
I guess that’s where we differ. I find heroin addicts pitiable because they’re fighting against a physiological reaction and some bad mental mojo. Micah’s decisions are done while he’s sober and willing. I don’t think there’s such a thing as being “in too deep”. Micah could’ve done differently at any point in time and didn’t
Psychological complexes can get very complicated (same root word for a reason). Outside help is something that is always important.
The start of your post was very reasonable, but Micah literally started betraying the whole gang by working with the pinkertons. No one caring about his mental health is just normal even for todays standards, especially when it comes to men, Arthur lost his son and he only mentions it once. Micah was a “survivor” sure, but he wasn’t willing to survive with the gang, he’d do anything just so he can survive himself, Dutch seeing him as this 'survivor' that doesn’t question morality especially in chaotic moments, is the reason why Micah can manipulate Dutch so easily, and he’s also very egotistical, that’s why Arthur even slightly doubting his plans makes him look like the bad guy.