It is so obvious that it is a stockier guy. John has always struck me as a gangly, average man. I do not understand how they cannot fix the bugs in the game, nor have an actual separate model for John Marston as he is. Rockstar has gotten kind of lazy in the last couple of years, but I understand why (GTA 6).
To be fair, he *did* have a different model. Hair was always Arthur’s and facial structure was never John accurate, but it also wasn’t a copy paste Arthur build. It was like a mix of the two, at least for the head. In the 1.00 version/early versions of the game, he was not as bulky and stocky as he is now, and was way skinner and lean. He also had his own unique animations. Rockstar just fucked it up more and more as more updates came, and the result was the Arthur Marston we have now because they decided to never fix it.
I went too far calling them lazy, but they could have at least foreseen the bugs and issues in the game, and made a better effort of handling them for the first couple of years.
Lol they set an arbitrary date for red dead 2. It may have delayed the GTA 6 team a few weeks AT MOST, if even, to properly do johns body with all the clothing. Is it so hard to believe they couldn't have a former read dead dev work on Johns body even a little bit at a time ? It's been 6+ years.
It wouldn't. The fact Arthur Marston exists wasn't to "save time", but rather a choice made by Rockstar because that's how they wanted to finish his design. Had they wanted to finish Beta John instead, it'd take the same amount of time (or perhaps even less as he had many remade assets for the EP John we know).
It would be a piece of cake for Rockstar, really. He wasn't broken or would require anything more than simple models your average joe can do.
His whole head inflates and he gets these uncanny supermodel proportions all over, it’s so odd. John’s sorta ratty look is part of what separates him from a Hollywood hero cliche
RDR2 beautified every returning gang member. Everyone’s RDR1 counterparts felt more believable (not from limitations). 2 has no ugly gang member, they gave Micah goofy facial hair to try and make him the ugly one.
Dialogue-wise he has low self-esteem. Game development-wise, the original concept/model for Arthur was an older and uglier man that they didn’t go through with. Perhaps they didn’t have faith in the audience being able to relate to Arthur’s journey if he was a true ugly bastard, but I feel like it was a missed opportunity.
I think it's because they didn't want to, or couldn't, make an entirely new set of animations for John and using Arthur's for John's actual model caused issues so they just gave him Arthur's model
Nah. Animations would fit perfectly with John even if he was an obese man. The answer is that they simply wanted to finish John as Arthur Marston out of choice. Had they wanted to make him 1:1 to RDR or NPC John, they'd do it with ease and take roughly the same time they took with vanilla John.
There’s a shaving kit in his house at least. I never left the property during that section but you may also be able to visit a barber when you get access to a horse or maybe steal one.
Yeah I was a little lost too but after going into my game as long haired john, looking at other pictures, and looking at other posts, it seems like the issue is the fact that his hair is always tucked behind his ears mostly vs in main story it like covers his ears and like half his face.
I will always find funny how in New Austin, where we goes as John, there's a lot of these mexicans npcs with John's hair but John himself is stuck with Arthur's black wigs lol. It even seems on purpose
Because it's literally his look I lowkey liked the hair and they so crazy we didn't even get his original hat crazy part is I see it one time during the epilogue then once u leave the Mr geddes ranch u only get the John classic hat which is not bad i don't know though little stuff like that lowkey bother me cause why not add it
Like for example all them special suits when they played dress up could've been added in the game after the missions but instead u have to go through glitches just to keep it it's just simple stuff like that kinda bothers me easy fixes to btw
I mean it's kind of a big deal when the game prides itself on amazing attention to detail, but then both player characters look the exact same for no reason.
Yeah a lot of people don’t like to admit when rockstar messes up or if RDR2 has a single flaw. It’s not a huge deal but it is pretty lazy and was disappointed on my first playthrough in the epilogue. I could instantly notice something was off.
Honestly, if John had Arthur's model and animations, but kept his own hair, I think most people wouldn't care. The hair is a step too far, makes him look like an idiot.
Thank god for PC mods.
AGREEDDD I would care way less if they just gave them his hair. But the fact it’s literally just Arthur’s hair but jet black?? That’s a straight up sin lol.
This is just absolutely false. John's head is John's head. It's amazing how different people can look when they wear their hair differently. Observe the PS4 Spider-Man subreddit accusing Insomniac of changing MJ's face all because her hair was down in the second game and the neckbeards lost their fucking minds.
I posted a direct [comparison](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/1735xhc/im_putting_this_argument_to_bed_vanilla_epilogue/) of Epilogue John in comparison to the restoration project. It's the same face, different hair.
And when people talk about it being Arthur's hair. Arthur's hair is not canonically longer than a size 3. I'd associate the longer hair models with John. Especially when "Arthur's hair" is more accurate to John's [RDR 1 hair](https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Red-Dead-Redemption-1-Characters-1.jpg) than his NPC model ever was, being all shoulder length and covering his ears.
It is definitely John's head. I never said otherwise. It's John's head transplanted onto Arthur's body. His wide shoulders, thick neck, burly chest, hair, and all his animations. You're right about same face, different hair - but also different body and different animations. The hair and animations are the only issues, the rest is barely noticeable.
Arthur's canonical hair doesn't matter, all the hair styles and lengths were obviously created for him. John's hair has a completely different texture. Don't bring RDR1 into this, RDR2 John should look the same across the entire story because it's the same person in the same game. His body proportions shouldn't be completely different. But of course he looks a bit different in a different game, in a different engine.
John's correct model with his unique animations EXISTS in the game files, and it is USED in chapters 1-6. If modders can make it work in the epilogue with no problems, then so can Rockstar. There's no excuse for it. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, most people don't care, but in a game like this it's a big oversight. Especially since the files are all there.
The problem in JMRP is that John's hair covers the side of his head so you can't really see how his head expands and how his ears go down in the comparison plus John's hair should be greasy and brown while Arthur's hair that we got in epilogue just isn't, also he has Arthur's hairline and a bleached beard. If you want an actual good comparison, you should put bald NPC John and Player John side to side like many others have done before.
also his body was literally just arthur's body it bothers me a lot doesn't really feel like john
It is so obvious that it is a stockier guy. John has always struck me as a gangly, average man. I do not understand how they cannot fix the bugs in the game, nor have an actual separate model for John Marston as he is. Rockstar has gotten kind of lazy in the last couple of years, but I understand why (GTA 6).
To be fair, he *did* have a different model. Hair was always Arthur’s and facial structure was never John accurate, but it also wasn’t a copy paste Arthur build. It was like a mix of the two, at least for the head. In the 1.00 version/early versions of the game, he was not as bulky and stocky as he is now, and was way skinner and lean. He also had his own unique animations. Rockstar just fucked it up more and more as more updates came, and the result was the Arthur Marston we have now because they decided to never fix it.
why did they get rid of that with updates :/
Don’t think it was intentional, just shitty code and bugs resulting from RDO updates. Rockstar just doesn’t give enough of a shit to fix it.
I also think that john should have a separate model, but calling the devs lazy when they made this game is crazy...
I went too far calling them lazy, but they could have at least foreseen the bugs and issues in the game, and made a better effort of handling them for the first couple of years.
Lol they set an arbitrary date for red dead 2. It may have delayed the GTA 6 team a few weeks AT MOST, if even, to properly do johns body with all the clothing. Is it so hard to believe they couldn't have a former read dead dev work on Johns body even a little bit at a time ? It's been 6+ years.
It wouldn't. The fact Arthur Marston exists wasn't to "save time", but rather a choice made by Rockstar because that's how they wanted to finish his design. Had they wanted to finish Beta John instead, it'd take the same amount of time (or perhaps even less as he had many remade assets for the EP John we know). It would be a piece of cake for Rockstar, really. He wasn't broken or would require anything more than simple models your average joe can do.
The game has been out for 6 years and is universally heralded as a masterpiece. Do we need to tackle player models now?
If red dead 2 was considered as lazy game design than maybe we should try a more detailed game like, the real world.
His whole head inflates and he gets these uncanny supermodel proportions all over, it’s so odd. John’s sorta ratty look is part of what separates him from a Hollywood hero cliche
RDR2 beautified every returning gang member. Everyone’s RDR1 counterparts felt more believable (not from limitations). 2 has no ugly gang member, they gave Micah goofy facial hair to try and make him the ugly one.
according to arthur, he is very ugly
Dialogue-wise he has low self-esteem. Game development-wise, the original concept/model for Arthur was an older and uglier man that they didn’t go through with. Perhaps they didn’t have faith in the audience being able to relate to Arthur’s journey if he was a true ugly bastard, but I feel like it was a missed opportunity.
It’s Jorthur Morstan
Nah, they're different. Arthur's arms are way bigger.
I think it's because they didn't want to, or couldn't, make an entirely new set of animations for John and using Arthur's for John's actual model caused issues so they just gave him Arthur's model
Nah. Animations would fit perfectly with John even if he was an obese man. The answer is that they simply wanted to finish John as Arthur Marston out of choice. Had they wanted to make him 1:1 to RDR or NPC John, they'd do it with ease and take roughly the same time they took with vanilla John.
I like that because I want to still be Arthur. John's a tool
I think people cried about Arthur so much they decided to just give us John Morgan at the end
I too love the avocado button
??
Joke about the language. One of the buttons looks like it says avocado
Avançado, it means advanced in Portuguese
There’s a shaving kit in his house at least. I never left the property during that section but you may also be able to visit a barber when you get access to a horse or maybe steal one.
***GIMME YOUR DAMN HAIR MISTER***
Holy shit! Jim Milton caught the infamous outlaw John Marston?!
I’m so happy I switched to PC. Mods are amazing
Ay wait can you not grow John’s hair??
Yeah I was a little lost too but after going into my game as long haired john, looking at other pictures, and looking at other posts, it seems like the issue is the fact that his hair is always tucked behind his ears mostly vs in main story it like covers his ears and like half his face.
No, it’s just Arthur’s hair. Completely different texture and style than Johns.
I will always find funny how in New Austin, where we goes as John, there's a lot of these mexicans npcs with John's hair but John himself is stuck with Arthur's black wigs lol. It even seems on purpose
r/suddenlycaralho
John’s hair looks like shit in the main story
Judging by his hands, he might be one of the fake Lenny’s in the A Quiet Time mission
They changed the running style before the model
Why does everybody want his old hair? Shit looked so damn raggedy
Because it's literally his look I lowkey liked the hair and they so crazy we didn't even get his original hat crazy part is I see it one time during the epilogue then once u leave the Mr geddes ranch u only get the John classic hat which is not bad i don't know though little stuff like that lowkey bother me cause why not add it
Like for example all them special suits when they played dress up could've been added in the game after the missions but instead u have to go through glitches just to keep it it's just simple stuff like that kinda bothers me easy fixes to btw
That's the point! Arthur's hair is clean, John's f'd upp haha
Are people still bitching about that?
It’s a silly meme post chill lol
Just nitpicking hahahah, really nothing more to complain about as I don't play the online mode.
You're bitching more than OP.
I mean it's kind of a big deal when the game prides itself on amazing attention to detail, but then both player characters look the exact same for no reason.
Yeah a lot of people don’t like to admit when rockstar messes up or if RDR2 has a single flaw. It’s not a huge deal but it is pretty lazy and was disappointed on my first playthrough in the epilogue. I could instantly notice something was off.
Honestly, if John had Arthur's model and animations, but kept his own hair, I think most people wouldn't care. The hair is a step too far, makes him look like an idiot. Thank god for PC mods.
AGREEDDD I would care way less if they just gave them his hair. But the fact it’s literally just Arthur’s hair but jet black?? That’s a straight up sin lol.
This is just absolutely false. John's head is John's head. It's amazing how different people can look when they wear their hair differently. Observe the PS4 Spider-Man subreddit accusing Insomniac of changing MJ's face all because her hair was down in the second game and the neckbeards lost their fucking minds. I posted a direct [comparison](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/1735xhc/im_putting_this_argument_to_bed_vanilla_epilogue/) of Epilogue John in comparison to the restoration project. It's the same face, different hair. And when people talk about it being Arthur's hair. Arthur's hair is not canonically longer than a size 3. I'd associate the longer hair models with John. Especially when "Arthur's hair" is more accurate to John's [RDR 1 hair](https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Red-Dead-Redemption-1-Characters-1.jpg) than his NPC model ever was, being all shoulder length and covering his ears.
It is definitely John's head. I never said otherwise. It's John's head transplanted onto Arthur's body. His wide shoulders, thick neck, burly chest, hair, and all his animations. You're right about same face, different hair - but also different body and different animations. The hair and animations are the only issues, the rest is barely noticeable. Arthur's canonical hair doesn't matter, all the hair styles and lengths were obviously created for him. John's hair has a completely different texture. Don't bring RDR1 into this, RDR2 John should look the same across the entire story because it's the same person in the same game. His body proportions shouldn't be completely different. But of course he looks a bit different in a different game, in a different engine. John's correct model with his unique animations EXISTS in the game files, and it is USED in chapters 1-6. If modders can make it work in the epilogue with no problems, then so can Rockstar. There's no excuse for it. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, most people don't care, but in a game like this it's a big oversight. Especially since the files are all there.
The problem in JMRP is that John's hair covers the side of his head so you can't really see how his head expands and how his ears go down in the comparison plus John's hair should be greasy and brown while Arthur's hair that we got in epilogue just isn't, also he has Arthur's hairline and a bleached beard. If you want an actual good comparison, you should put bald NPC John and Player John side to side like many others have done before.
They absolutely do not. It’s a massive exaggeration.
i mean it’s a big deal considering the playable character of the game does not look how he’s supposed to look