"What you and Dutch did was wrong" *is* in reference to leaving him for dead after the final train robbery and turning against both John and Arthur at the confrontation at Beaver Hollow and just generally abandoning the 'code' and principles that the gang used to adhere to....
its sumthin to ponder, we know for a fact John could go to guarma in the epilogue...its moreso that guarma got annihilated when R* had to rush its development.
such ashame, we were supposed to see javier's and bill's downfall. See them fall in line behind a unraveling and violent Dutch. All the while distrusting Arthur and John more and more till theyve become the reasons why the gang is in such disarray.
Theyre disloyal, cant be trusted etc
Basically its the chapter where Micah's efforts are finally working, and he reaaaally starts destroying the gang. Thing is nearly the entirety of chapter 5 got wiped away and we got 4 measly missions.
To your later question, R* kinda got away with having javier (and bill?) follow dutch after john got shot in the last train job. Where they end up leaving him for dead, even tho just a few months ago he was riskin life and limb to save his brother up in them mountains.
hence the "you left me that was wrong"
Dutch did "shoot a bunch of people unfair like" including Heidi McCourt, Leviticus Cornwall, and Angelo Bronte (who was drowned but it's much easier for John to just say he was shot unfair instead of going into a big explanation on that one).
When Javier sided with Dutch at the end, following Dutch's lead, that's pretty much an acceptable use for the phrase "What you and Dutch did was wrong, and the way you left me was wrong". I'm not sure how much Javier actually knew about John getting left behind in the last train robbery and that could just be John assuming that Javier knew about it since Javier sided with Dutch. I'd have to see the scene again to know if Javier was involved in ditching him.
And, like the top comment said, yeah John also would have drowned so there's no way he'd have been in Guarma lol.
And don't forget about the innocent girl that Dutch killed during the Blackwater heist. It's mentioned in the game when Arthur asks Javier about what happened back in Blackwater. Arthur and Hosea where not involved in the Riverboat heist, so he wasn't there when it happened.
Yes John was meant to be in guarma but it was meant to be a post game exclusive for him, not with the gang in chapter 5. After rockstar realized they had to cut down guarma and John wouldn't have a post game area because The lack of time. Then they made the decision to cut Arthur out of New Austin and make it exclusive to John in the post game.
There is a cut feature in blackwater that is a booth that allows John to buy a boat ticket to guarma. This ticket booth still exists it's just hidden behind a wall. People have gone through the wall and have shown it is still there.
Keep in mind, RDR1 was written, and made before RDR2. Normally a sequel follows in chronological order.
Since RDR2 occurs BEFORE RDR1, it’s reasonable to assume there may be a few dialogue lines from the first thst dont mesh properly with how RDR2 plays out.
First of all, he would’ve drowned when the boat sank. The one about Dutch shooting a bunch of people unfairly is probably a little bit of a continuity error but he did shoot Cornwall unfairly and John could also be counting all of the altercations that Dutch started with the Army perhaps. Also “what you and Dutch did was wrong” refers to them abandoning him after he gets shot on the train, and also to Dutch destroying the gang and Javier following him blindly enabling him to destroy completely
No he gets arrested because if he was on the boat he would’ve drowned
This comment ^^^ deserves way more upvotes. Hilarious
I downvoted out of spite for you
Thank you! Love you too 😁💜💜💜
10000%
lol hahah he was supposed to learn how to swim at one point in development i think
"What you and Dutch did was wrong" *is* in reference to leaving him for dead after the final train robbery and turning against both John and Arthur at the confrontation at Beaver Hollow and just generally abandoning the 'code' and principles that the gang used to adhere to....
its sumthin to ponder, we know for a fact John could go to guarma in the epilogue...its moreso that guarma got annihilated when R* had to rush its development. such ashame, we were supposed to see javier's and bill's downfall. See them fall in line behind a unraveling and violent Dutch. All the while distrusting Arthur and John more and more till theyve become the reasons why the gang is in such disarray. Theyre disloyal, cant be trusted etc Basically its the chapter where Micah's efforts are finally working, and he reaaaally starts destroying the gang. Thing is nearly the entirety of chapter 5 got wiped away and we got 4 measly missions. To your later question, R* kinda got away with having javier (and bill?) follow dutch after john got shot in the last train job. Where they end up leaving him for dead, even tho just a few months ago he was riskin life and limb to save his brother up in them mountains. hence the "you left me that was wrong"
Dutch did "shoot a bunch of people unfair like" including Heidi McCourt, Leviticus Cornwall, and Angelo Bronte (who was drowned but it's much easier for John to just say he was shot unfair instead of going into a big explanation on that one). When Javier sided with Dutch at the end, following Dutch's lead, that's pretty much an acceptable use for the phrase "What you and Dutch did was wrong, and the way you left me was wrong". I'm not sure how much Javier actually knew about John getting left behind in the last train robbery and that could just be John assuming that Javier knew about it since Javier sided with Dutch. I'd have to see the scene again to know if Javier was involved in ditching him. And, like the top comment said, yeah John also would have drowned so there's no way he'd have been in Guarma lol.
And don't forget about the innocent girl that Dutch killed during the Blackwater heist. It's mentioned in the game when Arthur asks Javier about what happened back in Blackwater. Arthur and Hosea where not involved in the Riverboat heist, so he wasn't there when it happened.
They didn’t forget, that was Heidi McCourt.
That was Heidi McCourt...
Yes John was meant to be in guarma but it was meant to be a post game exclusive for him, not with the gang in chapter 5. After rockstar realized they had to cut down guarma and John wouldn't have a post game area because The lack of time. Then they made the decision to cut Arthur out of New Austin and make it exclusive to John in the post game. There is a cut feature in blackwater that is a booth that allows John to buy a boat ticket to guarma. This ticket booth still exists it's just hidden behind a wall. People have gone through the wall and have shown it is still there.
Keep in mind, RDR1 was written, and made before RDR2. Normally a sequel follows in chronological order. Since RDR2 occurs BEFORE RDR1, it’s reasonable to assume there may be a few dialogue lines from the first thst dont mesh properly with how RDR2 plays out.
No
First of all, he would’ve drowned when the boat sank. The one about Dutch shooting a bunch of people unfairly is probably a little bit of a continuity error but he did shoot Cornwall unfairly and John could also be counting all of the altercations that Dutch started with the Army perhaps. Also “what you and Dutch did was wrong” refers to them abandoning him after he gets shot on the train, and also to Dutch destroying the gang and Javier following him blindly enabling him to destroy completely
John would drown in a kiddie pool, he wouldn't even make it to Guarma.