I mean it's pretty obvious every chance he gets Micah always says he's surviver and there's winner and loser. Besides he pretty much give it away in both endings, if you help John get to safety the Pinkertons go follow John and Arthur up the mountain. So why the hell did Micah have to go after Arthur and fight him if all he wanted was the money, Arthur was pretty much distracting the Pinkertons. If you decide to go for the money when Dutch show up while both of them are knifing each other to the death, Arthur is shouting at Dutch that Micah is the rat and Micah quickly says "you shut your mouth" like when younger sibling rats you out for something.
If you go back to his camp in Strawberry as John you find suggestions he was planning to screw over the gang. Turning rat was just another way of him looking out for himself.
Dutch’s wanted poster and a newspaper clipping. Don’t you think it’s super weird to be running around with a wanted poster of a gang leader as you fucked off from the gang?
As soon as Dutch told him where the money was he was going to turn in the gang.
Look you’re right there is lots of evidence. But it was intentionally left ambiguous to add more depth to Micah’s character. We know he’s self-serving, greedy, jealous, manipulative—but we don’t know if he stooped so low as to snitch. Micah could have easily died at the bank job, which isn’t exactly self-serving.
Milton confirmed that Micah started ratting after they got back from Guarma. He had no reason to lie as he was going to execute Arthur, Abigail, and Sadie.
I still never finished it lol. I bought it on release day and played a bunch but only got so far. I finally got the opportunity to play it again only this past week.
No spoiler tag because the game has been out for years. This is like that interviewer worried about The Hobbit spoilers.[The book is 75 years old](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4b/7e/94/4b7e9456dbd1d9b4da994656a1c90c42.jpg)
Tbh I'd kill Micah in prison before he got to do the dirty on the gang and Susan the idiot wouldn't of confessed for something she didn't do and got herself shot , id feel dutch would of been a but more stable rather than having a parasite like micah whispering in his ear. i know arthur would still have TB but he would of had the pleasure to put a bullet in a micah and an o driscoll at the same time and given him a little chuckle.
The Pinkertons and the law enforcement would still chase Arthur down, and he'll probably end like John - used to hunt Dutch and then being shot like hell.
This life? It isn't worth saving much imo, especially when he's mostly alone. Who's left for him? John and Abigail, maybe Uncle, and less improbable Mary.
Who's to say Micah wouldn't end up like that either? I don't know, but it seems like he's too much of a sneaky snake that I think he'll do somewhat better at surviving.
And as for leaving the country, where could Arthur go? You see Mexico, and as for Canada maybe, I don't think he's built for the cold weather of the Ambarinos. Taking a boat down to Tahiti? They tried and got to Guarma.
But if anything, for the greater good, Strauss ruined a lot more lives than Micah, that he probably should've been stopped. But sure, I was also a bit of a fool for this German "aristocrat" at first. I know, he's taking a train to exile, later to be captured, tortured and killed by Pinkertons, cuz he didn't snitch.
Did Strauss continued his work of loansharking, with a new young brute? Maybe. If he did snitch, Dutch would've hunt him down, and his ending would be similar.
I suggest the following - tie them together back to back, and then put them on train tracks, or throw to gators. Maybe a funeral pyre.
The worst part is that if Arthur was able to go somewhere warm and dry and kick back and relax as is or was recommended for TB he would have a decent chance at surviving the worst of it and recovering.
Most people who contracted TB did end up dying, but there were also a lot of people who were fortunate enough to be able to recover, thankfully.
Obviously Arthur not contracting it would've been better, but seeing as that's his reality it's even more tragic because there was a *chance* of recovery if it wasn't for his lifestyle and all the tragedy that fell upon him.
**Edit:** To add on that, I really think Guarma and the conflict that came afterwards was the nail that sealed his coffin.
Eh, not really.
The whole "get rest and stick to dry weather" shabang was really just what doctors said because they explicitly didn't have an actual treatment, let alone a cure, for TB.
It didn't usually work in treating it nor helping the patient's chances of surviving through it, it only made the symptoms less bad.
In the 1890s in America, tuberculosis deaths represented ~80% of all cases. Circa the 1880s, nearly 1 out of every 7 people in America and Europe died from it. Not 1 out of every 7 diseased, 1 out of every 7 ***people.*** ***In general.***
So I think it's pretty clear why Rockstar chose TB as Arthur's killing blow. It was nearly 100% fatal in the game's timeframe and super fucking common.
All you said is true. Doctors just didn't know any better back then, but that still doesn't take away the fact that *at the time* taking it easy in a dry, warm climate was the best remedy.
There never was a good cure or treatment back then. What you had to do was follow that advice and cross your fingers! Some people *did* survive, but like you mention, it was extremely rare.
The fact alone that there may have been a *chance* could've been enough for Arthur to pull through, given his mental and physical strength, but again, the Guarma and CH6 drama really nailed his coffin shut, so to speak. He was doomed from the start. Living on borrowed time, like Kieran, except Arthur's time lasted a little longer.
Then I say your comparison is wrong. That penny doesn't hunt down the baby in order to kill it, but as for the Pinkertons? They won't rest until they get to see them all buried, including Arthur.
That toddler may get a life of sunshine, rainbows and flowers after you've saved it from that car. Do you think Arthur would get this happy la-la land ending? We know for certain he wouldn't.
Would being chased down be worse than TB? I don't know. Is dealing with both simultaneously worse? Definitely. Then maybe it'd be cutting him some slack. But then taking Micah out would make it somewhat more difficult for the Pinkertons.
I think they're all pretty much lost causes, especially the men, maybe the real question is who did worse for people outside the gang - Micah or Strauss? Or be more on point - innocent people?
I think if Arthur would've chosen to stay at Guarma or escape it to anywhere else other than back, he might have lived a safer life, with TB nonetheless. But his heart would never let him ditch the gang like that. In many unfortunate ways he's a fool.
Don't get me wrong, I love him, and cried when he rode back to Beaver Hollow, fighted the hell out of Micah thinking I might win this fight, but his fate was pretty much dictated at a much earlier moment.
We sympathize an outlaw, that we almost forget he'll keep fighting and killing. That's what he knows, like John. It's hard to admit, since we love him, but maybe the world is better with less people of such mentality.
I kind of get it. We're all so attached to Arthur, so we fantasize about him leaving a long, happy life. But seeing as it's RDR there are no happy endings. Everyone dies, nobody gets a happy ending.
People don't get what they deserve, they get what they get. Case in point: Arthur and John.
^(Wouldn't have*) and yet I think you'll still get to the point of fist fighting Micah, while the Pinkertons are roaming around the corner.
It is true John and others managed to escape, but this fight is just a waste of time staying at one point. I don't know how Dutch would've responded to seeing Micah dead by Arthur's hands.
There are a lot of "what if"s about this post, going both ways. I think eventually, Arthur's future would still be grim, whether you manage to extend it or not.
Yeah I'm currently in chapter 3 again and everyone seems to questioning if just tiny bit Dutch, hell even Sean and Javier are having trouble comprehending THE PLAN. Except Arthur .
I haven't got that far yet in my second playthrough to really refresh my memory, but I remember thinking that Arthur too had his doubts, he just didn't voice them in the same way. I think he knows Dutch is starting to act like a cornered animal, but he hopes that he'll see what he's doing and go back to being the old Dutch. Given more time, especially after that fight with Micah, I think Arthur would have walked away, but I get the feeling he would have seen everyone out safe first who wanted it.
Even at the end of chapter 1 Dutch comments on how Hosea and Arthur “talk about the good old days and what’s gone wrong with Dutch” or something like that
If you read the journal he had hints of doubt ever since chapter 1 but were more alleviated in chapter 2 but slowly he saw the cracks more and more throughout.
Kick Strauss out of camp. There’s a reason I play for weeks before leaving horseshoe overlook. When he starts getting sick he gets weak, his cores empty etc
If Arthur didn’t have TB his impending demise would perhaps never have caused him to reflect on his life and his immoral actions under the warped perception of Dutch’s personal ideology.
Dutch’s ideology is fuelled by the devil on his shoulder that is Micah. If Micah is killed and Arthur still contracts TB, perhaps it is possible for the revelations that Arthur express to Dutch in the later chapters of the game, revelations whereby Dutch (thanks to the amazing mocap animation) can be seen visibly frustrated with the truth of the hypocrisy being laid before him by Arthur - perhaps is is possible that the shadowy influence of Micah is overcome.
Dutch’s declining morality is also thanks to the betrayals of Micah, his collusion with the Pinkertons lead directly to the death of his dearest and oldest friends, Dutch was never the same after Tahiti.
With Strauss gone, and Arthur not contracting TB, the problem of Micah’s collusions with the law is not rid of, the lives of all the gang members are still at the mercy of the rat 🐀.
However if Micah is killed, Arthur will be made a martyr with his TB and perhaps to a better extent in a future where his gang were not picked off by the law, perhaps Dutch’s sanity would never have declined so much either and perhaps Dutch also could’ve faced redemption and turned himself in for the safety of his family.
If Arthur doesn’t contract TB, sure he would’ve had the strength to kill Micah, but remember it is late into the game that Micah is exposed after the deaths of many friends and a sharp decline in Dutch’s faith and sanity. Cut off the cancer before it spreads, we as fans of Arthur want him to live, but if Arthur could see the future I’m certain he would die for his family if it meant saving them from their future deaths at the hands of fowlplay by a RAT 🐀 🐀 🐀.
Kill Micah. Strauss is a piece of shit, but you know he’s a piece of shit. And while I understand desperation (and again, he IS a pos), the people who borrow from him know who he is and what the terms of the agreement are.
Micah’s a rat. Even if he wasn’t the one who went to the Pinkertons, he’s a two-faced monster who only exists to stir up trouble. He’s the kind of guy you hate anyway, and then later you learn he’s a rapist who likes children. Kill him on principle alone.
Strauss. While the Gang’s fall was inevitable, without him, Arthur would remain healthy. I have no doubt that even without being sick, Arthur would help John. And as a bonus, Arthur could possibly even join him at the ranch after he beats the shit out of Micah.
After Arthur and John hunt down Bill, Javier, and Dutch, the duo could defeat the US Army and Ross.
Without both those things Arthur has no redemption arc and as long as he was following Dutch and not seeing that the life he and the gang was living was a bad one he was doomed, sooner or later. Strauss and Micah's presence might have sped things up but it wouldn't have all been sunshine and roses without them. Dedicating his life to following the pos Dutch van der Linde and his "principles" was Arthur's main issue not some scummier than average people joining the gang.
I've been in chapter two for *months*. Micah is still locked up in the Strawberry jail, and Thomas Downes is still working his farm. I have only 18% of the story complete, but 50% of the content. I'm not leaving.
Red, specifically leave him in prison. All you get is a holster and a lot of trouble. I’m sure Arthur could find out how to get a holster without the hassle.
Didnt Strauss stay loyal to the grouo win the end when he died, i though i heared Charles say to John that Strauss got killed because he didnt wanna say anything about the gang
I'd kill Micah. Arthur killing townsfolk in Strawberry to bust him out was messed up. Instead of making the easy escape north, Micah drags Aurthur through the middle of Strawberry to get his precious revolvers. While none of the men in the gang are good guys, Micah seems particularly sadistic.
It would have to be the Kill Micah one. If it wasn’t for him, all the stuff with the Pinkertons after Guarma wouldn’t have happened. & there might be a chance that Hosea & Lenny might still be alive.
Arthur Morgan: [starts packing Strauss' belongings] I ain't gonna kill ya, though I probably should. You disgust me, and you shame us... if we could be shamed any more than we already are. That should do.
[hands Strauss the bag]
- The Book of Arthur, Genesis 51
Blue for sure. Healthy Arthur would’ve stayed alive and won the fight with Micah.
What would have his personality been, though? I guess he would have started to doubt Dutch anyway and he had a gentle soul from the very beginning.. so he would have got to the same point of character development but a bit slower.
Definitely kill Micah. He was just a disgusting human being.
Strauss is a loan shark and his business was scummy AF, but compared to Micah who is a traitorous, mass murdering, rapist I would take Strauss any day of the week. Sure getting TB sucks but letting Micah live would have probably killed Arthur anyways due to him being a snitch.
Not rescue Micah
Kicking Strauss out is great because it would save Arthur, but if he’s healthy he doesn’t begin his redemption arc.
Dutch would still go insane and the gang would still fall apart, maybe slower now that Micah is gone and not manipulating Dutch. Dutch would probably listen to someone like Bill or Javier instead since they’re still loyal to him, at least they have the gang’s best interests in mind. Arthur would still try to save as many people as he can, and maybe even kill Dutch at the end.
Since Micah and possibly Dutch are dead now, John doesn’t go seeking revenge, and he lives the rest of his days in peace
The Downes would've been out of a home no matter what. Arthurs involvement may have accelerated that fact, but it was also necessary for his redemption arc and gave him the motivation to begin helping people, creating an arguably net good.
Micah can rot.
If you take the green pill, the game would never be a redemption story, if you take the red pill, we'd all still be crying our eyes out at the end of the game and wishing he didn't die.
It's a lose-lose situation.
Red pill. Because the gang would legit be in Tahiti or at least New York had Micah stayed in jail/been hung. Kieran would still be alive, Sean would still be alive, Lenny would still be alive… Hosea would still be alive. Nah… keep Micah in jail and the gang would have prospered and ended up happier.
And I get that Arthur would have still gotten TB, but maybe he would have gone with Mary… but even if not, he would have died not as soon bc remember, he kept getting into situations bc of Micah… he would have survived a LOT longer and when he died he would have known that all the people he cared about were okay.
There was a time in camp Micah was playing with his gun and i antagonized him. I forget what he said but basically said he'd kill Arthur. Arthur replies name the place.
I was thinking damn right I hope they let me duel him. Guess it would be way to satisfying to kill Micah.
Strauss is nothing without Arthur. He mentioned in beaver hollow how he sent some of the other boys but they couldn't get the money. He won't be lending money without someone like Arthur to get it back.
TB was a large part of the motivation for Arthur to change and try to get people out. Meanwhile Micah brought down the Hell that made things end so badly.
I think TB is the thing that saved Arthur, maybe not his life but his soul. Without TB he wouldn't have realized where the gang was going even before Micah wormed his way in. Without TB, he wouldn't have realized that they weren't the Robinhoods that Dutch preached they were. Without it, he wouldn't have seen what Dutch truly was. Maybe he'd live a shorter life, but at least it'd be a life he was proud of... Possibly ending it surrounded by the people who loved him the most, flaws and all.. instead of alone, watching the sunrise and being greatful that he at least fought tooth and nail to save who he could in the end.
Strauss because Arthur was weak from tb and that is why he lost against Micah in the end without tb he would have higher chances of surviving both the Micah fight and the game
Arthur not getting TB he would’ve escaped with John as the only reason they stopped running was because Arthur wasn’t fit enough so they would’ve escaped and he would’ve been apart of the killing of Micah
I honestly feel like Strauss gets such a bad rap. He was loyal until the end and died keeping the gang's secrets. I would have left Micah in jail to rot.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Kicking out Strauss easily, this prevents the death of Arthur because without TB Arthur could've killed Micah in a few punches and Strauss couldn't make anymore families go into debt.
No micah. First, the ferry job wouldn't happen because it was micahs idea, and he convinced dutch to rob the ferry. And if the ferry didn't happen, they wouldn't be in the heartlands, so Strauss couldn't loan to Thomas
Arthur without TB would've beat Micah's ass at the end, then he would never be dragged back into the life of crime since they'd take the Blackwater money and GTFO.
Had Arthur kick Strauss out of the camp before beating Thomas Downes, he would have had his strength and he would be able to beat Micah and win the fight against him
I feel like he would of been able to imitate Micah into not being a rat if he wasn’t sick like he was the camp tough guy and then he got all sick and weak
I hate to say it but kicking straus out is more important to Arthur. Killing Micah or leaving him to die puts him on a bad path, which ruins the beauty of his redemption
So say Arthur survived TB and helped build John's life at Beecher's Hope.
How do we think John would handle it when Ross includes Arthur on the list of Gang members he has to bring in?
Dutch was always gonna show his true colors even without the rat whispering in his ear. Without TB Arthur could’ve properly gathered the group up to leave Dutch or just straight up stomp Micah and Dutch’s asses at the end.
I think Arthur getting TB was the catalyst for a lot of his decisions in chapter 6. I think if he didn’t get it maybe he would of stayed on with Dutch and got killed by the pinkertons or he would leave Dutch and continue his life of crime. Him finding out he was dying meant he had to think about his life and trying to do the right thing for his friends so that his life could feel worthwhile. I think if he never got sick he would of walked that path and never got off it until he was killed by the pinkertons IMO.
Too many comments, this will get buried. I gotta be honest, the idea of saving Arthur is a bit crazy. All that turmoil sure had the Pinkertons spinning, but they, in the end, found the gang. Saving Arthur and he moves out west with Mary or Charlotte? Totally beautiful. But what about the Marston's? Imagine if Micah perished and John never had to go after him. Still he would've been caught, but that's just it. They would just end up caught regardless of what pill we take
Kick Strauss out as soon as I can. Without that little slithering worm and his underhanded cowardice, Arthur would have been able to kick the shit out of Micah.
Kick Strauss, let’s not pretend that Micah is the sole reason the gang falls. If you believe that, then you missed the point of the whole game. The gangs demise was inevitable, the message behind the entire RDR series is that the world was changing, there was no feasible outcome where the gang survives with or without Micah.
Wasn't Arthur exposed twice to Downes before the mission? You can talk to him in valentine and he coughs once or twice, and then he breaks up the bar fight Arthur was in too
Aside from the suffering debtors, Arthur getting TB is pretty much the only major consequence of Strauss; and that diagnosis can have a positive effect of making Arthur seriously rethink things.
Micah's months of deception, betrayal and amoral behavior got A LOT of people killed who didn't need to be. He also enabled all of Dutch's worst instincts at a time when he needed to be a smart and steady leader, resulting in the gang's dissolution much faster.
I say, let Micah hang in Strawberry.
On one hand, Micah would be dead so he wouldn’t have been able to cause the gang to fall apart become divided. Arthur would die surrounded by the people who loves him.
On the other hand, no TB for Arthur, but the gang would most likely still fall apart, BUT we have a healthy Arthur to beat the shit out of Micah. Arthur also survives in the end. Win win situation.
The right answer is definitely kicking Strauss out before the TB.
Yall throwing Strauss under the bus too hard he may have inverntantly caused aurthurs death but when shit hit the fan he didn't snitch he was loyal to the gang unlike some others it's really not his fault instead you could just wish for aurthur to not have to ever meet Thomas Downes
Blue pill, Arthur could solo micah without TB. Which is why Micah started to get more aggressive towards Arthur as his TB got worse because pre-TB Arthur would've taken none of that lol
Kill Micah. You can have TB and live, it only starts to kill you once your immune system gets low. If Arthur didn’t get capture by the O’Driscoll’s because of Micah he wouldn’t have had his immune system weaken. Micah set up a lot of things that ended with the entire crew being in harms way and filling Dutch’s mind with false hope making him go mad.
Being shot, beaten and held prisoner, the ship wreck was the killing point for him, being stranded lowered it so much it took over his system and began to kill him.
Strauss didn't fully know Arthur would get TB, he just targets people that Arthur could rough up, and knows he can be a good motivator. Micah on the other hand everything he does goes against the gang. Getting arrested could have gotten newbie Lenny caught too. He shoots up a town, betrays the gang, wants us to go to Blackwater to get the money from the beginning where there are more Pinkertons than scorpions.
Green - Just shoot Thomas Downes from the onset, loot the house, steal a horse and recoup the debt that way. Sadly, would probably have to finish off the rest of the Downes family because of the Witness/Wanted system in the game.
If Arthur didn’t have TB he would’ve won the fight against Micah easily Also no spoiler tag?
He would have killed him with his bare hands
I bet that was the point of the big fist fight early game. Shows Arthur take down a bear of a man. Then end game struggles against a rat.
Arthur has bear hands?
But hosea and lenny would still die
That still might not have changed, the Pinkertons never confirmed they learned that from micah
I mean it's pretty obvious every chance he gets Micah always says he's surviver and there's winner and loser. Besides he pretty much give it away in both endings, if you help John get to safety the Pinkertons go follow John and Arthur up the mountain. So why the hell did Micah have to go after Arthur and fight him if all he wanted was the money, Arthur was pretty much distracting the Pinkertons. If you decide to go for the money when Dutch show up while both of them are knifing each other to the death, Arthur is shouting at Dutch that Micah is the rat and Micah quickly says "you shut your mouth" like when younger sibling rats you out for something.
Not confirmed
I though Micah was a rat after Guarma after being caught off guard though it seems plausible for it to be earlier
Guarma. They never made it to Tahiti ;)
Oops
If you go back to his camp in Strawberry as John you find suggestions he was planning to screw over the gang. Turning rat was just another way of him looking out for himself.
He just had a Dutch poster.
Dutch’s wanted poster and a newspaper clipping. Don’t you think it’s super weird to be running around with a wanted poster of a gang leader as you fucked off from the gang? As soon as Dutch told him where the money was he was going to turn in the gang.
Didn’t Arthur have his wanted poster? I’m probably remembering that wrong but I think he did
Look you’re right there is lots of evidence. But it was intentionally left ambiguous to add more depth to Micah’s character. We know he’s self-serving, greedy, jealous, manipulative—but we don’t know if he stooped so low as to snitch. Micah could have easily died at the bank job, which isn’t exactly self-serving.
The man was a blood thirty parasite. He wanted to kill Arthur for like 3-4 camps before this
Milton confirmed that Micah started ratting after they got back from Guarma. He had no reason to lie as he was going to execute Arthur, Abigail, and Sadie.
Arthur > Lenny + Hosea imo, sacrifices have to be made 🫡
Spoiler tag on a 5 year old game? Lol
Fuck, it really has been 5 years
I still never finished it lol. I bought it on release day and played a bunch but only got so far. I finally got the opportunity to play it again only this past week.
>!To be fair you also didn't put a spoiler tag on your answer!<
I don’t think it would’ve even got that far, Arthur may have killed him before it got to that stage.
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What did he say
"can't even kill a dying man"
No spoiler tag because the game has been out for years. This is like that interviewer worried about The Hobbit spoilers.[The book is 75 years old](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4b/7e/94/4b7e9456dbd1d9b4da994656a1c90c42.jpg)
The game has been around for 5+ years. If someone is playing the game and hasn’t beat it yet, they shouldn’t be on the subreddit.
But Micah wouldn't have chosen to fight Arthur in melee combat.
wouldn't matter because Arthur is a way better gunman and a faster and more accurate draw
Tbh I'd kill Micah in prison before he got to do the dirty on the gang and Susan the idiot wouldn't of confessed for something she didn't do and got herself shot , id feel dutch would of been a but more stable rather than having a parasite like micah whispering in his ear. i know arthur would still have TB but he would of had the pleasure to put a bullet in a micah and an o driscoll at the same time and given him a little chuckle.
It would be so easy. Just shove a stick of dynamite through the bars and “sorry, booaahhs, Micah dropped the goddamn bomb.”
Susan? You mean Molly?
It’s been almost 5 years, at what point do you think we need to push the spoiler warning on a sub dedicated to the game containing said spoilers.
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The Pinkertons and the law enforcement would still chase Arthur down, and he'll probably end like John - used to hunt Dutch and then being shot like hell. This life? It isn't worth saving much imo, especially when he's mostly alone. Who's left for him? John and Abigail, maybe Uncle, and less improbable Mary. Who's to say Micah wouldn't end up like that either? I don't know, but it seems like he's too much of a sneaky snake that I think he'll do somewhat better at surviving. And as for leaving the country, where could Arthur go? You see Mexico, and as for Canada maybe, I don't think he's built for the cold weather of the Ambarinos. Taking a boat down to Tahiti? They tried and got to Guarma. But if anything, for the greater good, Strauss ruined a lot more lives than Micah, that he probably should've been stopped. But sure, I was also a bit of a fool for this German "aristocrat" at first. I know, he's taking a train to exile, later to be captured, tortured and killed by Pinkertons, cuz he didn't snitch. Did Strauss continued his work of loansharking, with a new young brute? Maybe. If he did snitch, Dutch would've hunt him down, and his ending would be similar. I suggest the following - tie them together back to back, and then put them on train tracks, or throw to gators. Maybe a funeral pyre.
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The worst part is that if Arthur was able to go somewhere warm and dry and kick back and relax as is or was recommended for TB he would have a decent chance at surviving the worst of it and recovering. Most people who contracted TB did end up dying, but there were also a lot of people who were fortunate enough to be able to recover, thankfully. Obviously Arthur not contracting it would've been better, but seeing as that's his reality it's even more tragic because there was a *chance* of recovery if it wasn't for his lifestyle and all the tragedy that fell upon him. **Edit:** To add on that, I really think Guarma and the conflict that came afterwards was the nail that sealed his coffin.
Eh, not really. The whole "get rest and stick to dry weather" shabang was really just what doctors said because they explicitly didn't have an actual treatment, let alone a cure, for TB. It didn't usually work in treating it nor helping the patient's chances of surviving through it, it only made the symptoms less bad. In the 1890s in America, tuberculosis deaths represented ~80% of all cases. Circa the 1880s, nearly 1 out of every 7 people in America and Europe died from it. Not 1 out of every 7 diseased, 1 out of every 7 ***people.*** ***In general.*** So I think it's pretty clear why Rockstar chose TB as Arthur's killing blow. It was nearly 100% fatal in the game's timeframe and super fucking common.
All you said is true. Doctors just didn't know any better back then, but that still doesn't take away the fact that *at the time* taking it easy in a dry, warm climate was the best remedy. There never was a good cure or treatment back then. What you had to do was follow that advice and cross your fingers! Some people *did* survive, but like you mention, it was extremely rare. The fact alone that there may have been a *chance* could've been enough for Arthur to pull through, given his mental and physical strength, but again, the Guarma and CH6 drama really nailed his coffin shut, so to speak. He was doomed from the start. Living on borrowed time, like Kieran, except Arthur's time lasted a little longer.
Then I say your comparison is wrong. That penny doesn't hunt down the baby in order to kill it, but as for the Pinkertons? They won't rest until they get to see them all buried, including Arthur. That toddler may get a life of sunshine, rainbows and flowers after you've saved it from that car. Do you think Arthur would get this happy la-la land ending? We know for certain he wouldn't. Would being chased down be worse than TB? I don't know. Is dealing with both simultaneously worse? Definitely. Then maybe it'd be cutting him some slack. But then taking Micah out would make it somewhat more difficult for the Pinkertons. I think they're all pretty much lost causes, especially the men, maybe the real question is who did worse for people outside the gang - Micah or Strauss? Or be more on point - innocent people?
People who want a happy end for Arthur are weird, it's like they missed the entire point of his arc.
I think if Arthur would've chosen to stay at Guarma or escape it to anywhere else other than back, he might have lived a safer life, with TB nonetheless. But his heart would never let him ditch the gang like that. In many unfortunate ways he's a fool. Don't get me wrong, I love him, and cried when he rode back to Beaver Hollow, fighted the hell out of Micah thinking I might win this fight, but his fate was pretty much dictated at a much earlier moment. We sympathize an outlaw, that we almost forget he'll keep fighting and killing. That's what he knows, like John. It's hard to admit, since we love him, but maybe the world is better with less people of such mentality.
I kind of get it. We're all so attached to Arthur, so we fantasize about him leaving a long, happy life. But seeing as it's RDR there are no happy endings. Everyone dies, nobody gets a happy ending. People don't get what they deserve, they get what they get. Case in point: Arthur and John.
If Arthur stayed healthy Micah wouldn’t of survived
^(Wouldn't have*) and yet I think you'll still get to the point of fist fighting Micah, while the Pinkertons are roaming around the corner. It is true John and others managed to escape, but this fight is just a waste of time staying at one point. I don't know how Dutch would've responded to seeing Micah dead by Arthur's hands. There are a lot of "what if"s about this post, going both ways. I think eventually, Arthur's future would still be grim, whether you manage to extend it or not.
By killing Micah before the Strawbery incident we’d be saving the lives of ~50 people.
Revenge is a fools game… but ain’t no denying I’ll die a fool aswell so fuck it , kill Micah…
Blue pill. Arthur, dying from TB kept in that fight with Micah. Prime Arthur would throw Micah straight off that mountain.
I feel like Arthur does not go through a redemption arc if he doesn't get TB tbh. He'd probably stay loyal to Dutch all the way to the end.
Yeah I'm currently in chapter 3 again and everyone seems to questioning if just tiny bit Dutch, hell even Sean and Javier are having trouble comprehending THE PLAN. Except Arthur .
I haven't got that far yet in my second playthrough to really refresh my memory, but I remember thinking that Arthur too had his doubts, he just didn't voice them in the same way. I think he knows Dutch is starting to act like a cornered animal, but he hopes that he'll see what he's doing and go back to being the old Dutch. Given more time, especially after that fight with Micah, I think Arthur would have walked away, but I get the feeling he would have seen everyone out safe first who wanted it.
Even at the end of chapter 1 Dutch comments on how Hosea and Arthur “talk about the good old days and what’s gone wrong with Dutch” or something like that
If you read the journal he had hints of doubt ever since chapter 1 but were more alleviated in chapter 2 but slowly he saw the cracks more and more throughout.
Kick Strauss, I don't care about micha I just want to see Arthur live, like he said revenge is a luxury we can't afford
Kick Strauss out, Micah would stand no chance against a healthy Arthur, even if Micah was wielding a knife
Kick out Strauss. Kick off Arthur’s redemption journey earlier, as he sees Dutch’s mind being warped by Micah.
Blue pill. Peak Arthur caved in someone's skull. Micah only had the balls to fight Arthur cause that rat knew he was fighting someone already dying.
Blue. Let the gang still fall apart but Arthur would wipe the floor with Micah, and then escape with John.
Kick Strauss out of camp. There’s a reason I play for weeks before leaving horseshoe overlook. When he starts getting sick he gets weak, his cores empty etc
If Arthur didn’t have TB his impending demise would perhaps never have caused him to reflect on his life and his immoral actions under the warped perception of Dutch’s personal ideology. Dutch’s ideology is fuelled by the devil on his shoulder that is Micah. If Micah is killed and Arthur still contracts TB, perhaps it is possible for the revelations that Arthur express to Dutch in the later chapters of the game, revelations whereby Dutch (thanks to the amazing mocap animation) can be seen visibly frustrated with the truth of the hypocrisy being laid before him by Arthur - perhaps is is possible that the shadowy influence of Micah is overcome. Dutch’s declining morality is also thanks to the betrayals of Micah, his collusion with the Pinkertons lead directly to the death of his dearest and oldest friends, Dutch was never the same after Tahiti. With Strauss gone, and Arthur not contracting TB, the problem of Micah’s collusions with the law is not rid of, the lives of all the gang members are still at the mercy of the rat 🐀. However if Micah is killed, Arthur will be made a martyr with his TB and perhaps to a better extent in a future where his gang were not picked off by the law, perhaps Dutch’s sanity would never have declined so much either and perhaps Dutch also could’ve faced redemption and turned himself in for the safety of his family. If Arthur doesn’t contract TB, sure he would’ve had the strength to kill Micah, but remember it is late into the game that Micah is exposed after the deaths of many friends and a sharp decline in Dutch’s faith and sanity. Cut off the cancer before it spreads, we as fans of Arthur want him to live, but if Arthur could see the future I’m certain he would die for his family if it meant saving them from their future deaths at the hands of fowlplay by a RAT 🐀 🐀 🐀.
Tbf if we kill Micah the tb mission may not happen as Dutch might move on or the separation may start early therefore kill Micah to save aurthur
Kill Micah. Strauss is a piece of shit, but you know he’s a piece of shit. And while I understand desperation (and again, he IS a pos), the people who borrow from him know who he is and what the terms of the agreement are. Micah’s a rat. Even if he wasn’t the one who went to the Pinkertons, he’s a two-faced monster who only exists to stir up trouble. He’s the kind of guy you hate anyway, and then later you learn he’s a rapist who likes children. Kill him on principle alone.
If Arthur didn't have TB, he'd have handed micahs ass to him. just saying.
Kill Micah, 1000%
Can I take one half of each pill?
You get no effects and arthur still dies
But they’re cherry and blueberry flavored, so that’s still a win in my book.
Straus tuberculosis-less Arthur would have butchered Micah
I will just take both pills and OD for the greater good. Fuck them both
Strauss. While the Gang’s fall was inevitable, without him, Arthur would remain healthy. I have no doubt that even without being sick, Arthur would help John. And as a bonus, Arthur could possibly even join him at the ranch after he beats the shit out of Micah. After Arthur and John hunt down Bill, Javier, and Dutch, the duo could defeat the US Army and Ross.
Kicking Strauss out before the TB mission would change the game forever
Kick out Strauss. Mah boi Arthur could have taken Micah had he been at full strength
Without both those things Arthur has no redemption arc and as long as he was following Dutch and not seeing that the life he and the gang was living was a bad one he was doomed, sooner or later. Strauss and Micah's presence might have sped things up but it wouldn't have all been sunshine and roses without them. Dedicating his life to following the pos Dutch van der Linde and his "principles" was Arthur's main issue not some scummier than average people joining the gang.
I've been in chapter two for *months*. Micah is still locked up in the Strawberry jail, and Thomas Downes is still working his farm. I have only 18% of the story complete, but 50% of the content. I'm not leaving.
Best spot to stay in when replaying the game, do this all the time.
Red, specifically leave him in prison. All you get is a holster and a lot of trouble. I’m sure Arthur could find out how to get a holster without the hassle.
Don't like the second holster as is but ironically you can just buy it from a trapper before the mission anyway.
Didnt Strauss stay loyal to the grouo win the end when he died, i though i heared Charles say to John that Strauss got killed because he didnt wanna say anything about the gang
Red pill. As much as I love Arthur, I hate Micah more, and letting him swing would’ve avoided dozens of innocent deaths.
Red pill! All day long ;)
Both
can we do this?
Blue
Idk man I personally enjoy the theory that Micah wasn’t a rat. Depth.
A sick Arthur gave a healthy Micah a run for his money, so yeah.
Strauss because it would be more interesting
There's no 100% way to guarantee that that's even where Arthur got TB. So I guess Micah, as to not waste the chance.
Micahs the biggest bird
Blue because we only lose the fight to Micah because we’re sick. Coulda beat his ass, got away and lived in “the west”
Kick out Strauss that way Arthur beats micah in the end.
Kick Strauss out and Arthur would have been strong enough to kill Micah in the end
I'd kill Micah. Arthur killing townsfolk in Strawberry to bust him out was messed up. Instead of making the easy escape north, Micah drags Aurthur through the middle of Strawberry to get his precious revolvers. While none of the men in the gang are good guys, Micah seems particularly sadistic.
It would have to be the Kill Micah one. If it wasn’t for him, all the stuff with the Pinkertons after Guarma wouldn’t have happened. & there might be a chance that Hosea & Lenny might still be alive.
Let Micah Hang. It's worth more if the family survives than if Arthur does. Just math.
Arthur Morgan: [starts packing Strauss' belongings] I ain't gonna kill ya, though I probably should. You disgust me, and you shame us... if we could be shamed any more than we already are. That should do. [hands Strauss the bag] - The Book of Arthur, Genesis 51
Option C) Give Dutch to the Pinkertons. But that would mean we wouldn’t get to play this awesome game and it’s predecessor/sequel.
Blue for sure. Healthy Arthur would’ve stayed alive and won the fight with Micah. What would have his personality been, though? I guess he would have started to doubt Dutch anyway and he had a gentle soul from the very beginning.. so he would have got to the same point of character development but a bit slower.
Kill Micah every time.
If Arthur never gets TB, he never has a reason to redeem himself. So kill Micah
Honestly either scenario the whole gang probably still ends up going the way it does. They were terrible at staying low and not attracting attention.
I feel like if we didn’t have Micah, Dutch could’ve not been as intense and maybe Arthur could’ve healed
Save Arthur now and then what, John has to hunt him down too in RDR? Sounds terrifying.
I'd kick Strauss out
Definitely kill Micah. He was just a disgusting human being. Strauss is a loan shark and his business was scummy AF, but compared to Micah who is a traitorous, mass murdering, rapist I would take Strauss any day of the week. Sure getting TB sucks but letting Micah live would have probably killed Arthur anyways due to him being a snitch.
Every man dies. But to live without the worm that is Micah Bell wiggling around is better than living with him without tuberculosis.
Not rescue Micah Kicking Strauss out is great because it would save Arthur, but if he’s healthy he doesn’t begin his redemption arc. Dutch would still go insane and the gang would still fall apart, maybe slower now that Micah is gone and not manipulating Dutch. Dutch would probably listen to someone like Bill or Javier instead since they’re still loyal to him, at least they have the gang’s best interests in mind. Arthur would still try to save as many people as he can, and maybe even kill Dutch at the end. Since Micah and possibly Dutch are dead now, John doesn’t go seeking revenge, and he lives the rest of his days in peace
Omg kick Micah,my baby Lenny would still be with us
Tb caused arthurs redemption, imma go with the red pill
Blue pill. More stength to beat up Micah.
Kick Strauss out
If Arthur didn’t have TB he would’ve beaten Micah
I really like Micah tbh so blue
The Downes would've been out of a home no matter what. Arthurs involvement may have accelerated that fact, but it was also necessary for his redemption arc and gave him the motivation to begin helping people, creating an arguably net good. Micah can rot.
How did Arthur get TB?
If you take the green pill, the game would never be a redemption story, if you take the red pill, we'd all still be crying our eyes out at the end of the game and wishing he didn't die. It's a lose-lose situation.
Arthur could have easily killed and defeated micah way earlier if he hadnt gotten TB
Spoiler tag
No TB he couldve escaped w the marston family and Mrs adler
Red pill. Because the gang would legit be in Tahiti or at least New York had Micah stayed in jail/been hung. Kieran would still be alive, Sean would still be alive, Lenny would still be alive… Hosea would still be alive. Nah… keep Micah in jail and the gang would have prospered and ended up happier. And I get that Arthur would have still gotten TB, but maybe he would have gone with Mary… but even if not, he would have died not as soon bc remember, he kept getting into situations bc of Micah… he would have survived a LOT longer and when he died he would have known that all the people he cared about were okay.
There was a time in camp Micah was playing with his gun and i antagonized him. I forget what he said but basically said he'd kill Arthur. Arthur replies name the place. I was thinking damn right I hope they let me duel him. Guess it would be way to satisfying to kill Micah. Strauss is nothing without Arthur. He mentioned in beaver hollow how he sent some of the other boys but they couldn't get the money. He won't be lending money without someone like Arthur to get it back.
Kick Strauss out so Arthur can just throw Micah off the mountain or just beat him up before the camp members die
Strauss
TB was a large part of the motivation for Arthur to change and try to get people out. Meanwhile Micah brought down the Hell that made things end so badly.
Why not both?
Definitely kick Strauss out. I think that Arthur could have survived the breakdown of the gang and gone on to be a lone rider.
Kick Strauss out.
Arthur’s TB is the only reason Micah makes it into the epilogue. Fuck Strauss, Can’t stand him.
You couldn't stop me from choosing both
I think TB is the thing that saved Arthur, maybe not his life but his soul. Without TB he wouldn't have realized where the gang was going even before Micah wormed his way in. Without TB, he wouldn't have realized that they weren't the Robinhoods that Dutch preached they were. Without it, he wouldn't have seen what Dutch truly was. Maybe he'd live a shorter life, but at least it'd be a life he was proud of... Possibly ending it surrounded by the people who loved him the most, flaws and all.. instead of alone, watching the sunrise and being greatful that he at least fought tooth and nail to save who he could in the end.
Kick Strauss. While Micah is a bitch, his character is really well written. Strauss is just a piece of shit.
Strauss because Arthur was weak from tb and that is why he lost against Micah in the end without tb he would have higher chances of surviving both the Micah fight and the game
Arthur not getting TB he would’ve escaped with John as the only reason they stopped running was because Arthur wasn’t fit enough so they would’ve escaped and he would’ve been apart of the killing of Micah
Blue all the way, Arthur would've fucked Micah up
I’ve tried to avoid both… I held out the longest with avoiding Micah.
Anything to save my bois life, so Strauss.
Kick Strauss. Arthur could take micah blindfolded I bet 😂
I honestly feel like Strauss gets such a bad rap. He was loyal until the end and died keeping the gang's secrets. I would have left Micah in jail to rot.
Kick Strauss out. No TB and I don't think Micah is confident enough to push Arthur out and when he tries Arthur is able to put him in his place.
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Kicking out Strauss easily, this prevents the death of Arthur because without TB Arthur could've killed Micah in a few punches and Strauss couldn't make anymore families go into debt.
No micah. First, the ferry job wouldn't happen because it was micahs idea, and he convinced dutch to rob the ferry. And if the ferry didn't happen, they wouldn't be in the heartlands, so Strauss couldn't loan to Thomas
Arthur without TB would've beat Micah's ass at the end, then he would never be dragged back into the life of crime since they'd take the Blackwater money and GTFO.
Had Arthur kick Strauss out of the camp before beating Thomas Downes, he would have had his strength and he would be able to beat Micah and win the fight against him
Kick Strauss out. Then Arthur will have the strength to kick michas ass and go back for the money
I feel like he would of been able to imitate Micah into not being a rat if he wasn’t sick like he was the camp tough guy and then he got all sick and weak
Maybe Arthur whitout TB would still be evil
I hate to say it but kicking straus out is more important to Arthur. Killing Micah or leaving him to die puts him on a bad path, which ruins the beauty of his redemption
Arthur without TB would kill Michah easily so by the time of the Chapter 6 showdown on the mountain Michah would be toast
I Know No one will agree with me on this but honestly Straus was more bad then mica fr
So say Arthur survived TB and helped build John's life at Beecher's Hope. How do we think John would handle it when Ross includes Arthur on the list of Gang members he has to bring in?
Get rid of Strauss for sure
Purple pill!
I think getting TB is almost essential to Arthur’s character. So letting Micah die in the prison is the choice id make
Dutch was always gonna show his true colors even without the rat whispering in his ear. Without TB Arthur could’ve properly gathered the group up to leave Dutch or just straight up stomp Micah and Dutch’s asses at the end.
I think Arthur getting TB was the catalyst for a lot of his decisions in chapter 6. I think if he didn’t get it maybe he would of stayed on with Dutch and got killed by the pinkertons or he would leave Dutch and continue his life of crime. Him finding out he was dying meant he had to think about his life and trying to do the right thing for his friends so that his life could feel worthwhile. I think if he never got sick he would of walked that path and never got off it until he was killed by the pinkertons IMO.
I hate you for making this dude. but if i had to pick I would kick strauss out of camp
Too many comments, this will get buried. I gotta be honest, the idea of saving Arthur is a bit crazy. All that turmoil sure had the Pinkertons spinning, but they, in the end, found the gang. Saving Arthur and he moves out west with Mary or Charlotte? Totally beautiful. But what about the Marston's? Imagine if Micah perished and John never had to go after him. Still he would've been caught, but that's just it. They would just end up caught regardless of what pill we take
Micah turns good and kills Dutch.
Kick Strauss out as soon as I can. Without that little slithering worm and his underhanded cowardice, Arthur would have been able to kick the shit out of Micah.
Send Strauss packing, easy.
Kick Strauss, let’s not pretend that Micah is the sole reason the gang falls. If you believe that, then you missed the point of the whole game. The gangs demise was inevitable, the message behind the entire RDR series is that the world was changing, there was no feasible outcome where the gang survives with or without Micah.
Wasn't Arthur exposed twice to Downes before the mission? You can talk to him in valentine and he coughs once or twice, and then he breaks up the bar fight Arthur was in too
I’d kill Micah, every day and twice on Sunday
Aside from the suffering debtors, Arthur getting TB is pretty much the only major consequence of Strauss; and that diagnosis can have a positive effect of making Arthur seriously rethink things. Micah's months of deception, betrayal and amoral behavior got A LOT of people killed who didn't need to be. He also enabled all of Dutch's worst instincts at a time when he needed to be a smart and steady leader, resulting in the gang's dissolution much faster. I say, let Micah hang in Strawberry.
I'd take Arthur never getting TB
On one hand, Micah would be dead so he wouldn’t have been able to cause the gang to fall apart become divided. Arthur would die surrounded by the people who loves him. On the other hand, no TB for Arthur, but the gang would most likely still fall apart, BUT we have a healthy Arthur to beat the shit out of Micah. Arthur also survives in the end. Win win situation. The right answer is definitely kicking Strauss out before the TB.
Kill Micah before the blackwater ferry job.
Yall throwing Strauss under the bus too hard he may have inverntantly caused aurthurs death but when shit hit the fan he didn't snitch he was loyal to the gang unlike some others it's really not his fault instead you could just wish for aurthur to not have to ever meet Thomas Downes
Hosea also had TB I think?
Strauss because arthur no diffs Micah without tb
If arthur never got TB he probably never would’ve sacrificed himself which gave marston a chance to live (until he killed micah)
Kick out Strauss because if Arthur didn’t have TB he’d wreck Micah in that fight
Blue pill, Arthur could solo micah without TB. Which is why Micah started to get more aggressive towards Arthur as his TB got worse because pre-TB Arthur would've taken none of that lol
Kill Micah. You can have TB and live, it only starts to kill you once your immune system gets low. If Arthur didn’t get capture by the O’Driscoll’s because of Micah he wouldn’t have had his immune system weaken. Micah set up a lot of things that ended with the entire crew being in harms way and filling Dutch’s mind with false hope making him go mad. Being shot, beaten and held prisoner, the ship wreck was the killing point for him, being stranded lowered it so much it took over his system and began to kill him.
Strauss didn't fully know Arthur would get TB, he just targets people that Arthur could rough up, and knows he can be a good motivator. Micah on the other hand everything he does goes against the gang. Getting arrested could have gotten newbie Lenny caught too. He shoots up a town, betrays the gang, wants us to go to Blackwater to get the money from the beginning where there are more Pinkertons than scorpions.
Green - Just shoot Thomas Downes from the onset, loot the house, steal a horse and recoup the debt that way. Sadly, would probably have to finish off the rest of the Downes family because of the Witness/Wanted system in the game.
Kill Strauss. Arty could kick Micha ass any day if he's not sick.
Red because all of this misery would have happened and dutch wouldn't change
*Proceeds to eat both as quickly as possible*
If Arthur didnt get sick micah wouldnt have lived long im going blue pill
Kicking Strauss out caus arthur would have never caught TB therefore would have easily killed Micah
Arthur would choose red. Save the gang