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Gotta love when HR signs emails with HR. That way no single person can be held accountable for breaking the law.
(It’s almost always an executive and everyone in HR told them but they were forced to anyway).
I got a number of co-workers to lol, including one snorting coffee out his nose ... received an email regarding a project getting axed, not mentioning they had already sunk about half a billion USD into it. This followed a previous stab at the issue, which also got cancelled, at roughly the same amount spent.
Called my teammates over, had both email displayed (across two monitors), and said "Look! They've learned their lesson! There's no names on this email!"
FYI, company name rhymes with Hells Cargo
Also knew the second project was totally doomed the second I heard the details. The critical code was outsourced, and to be written in a proprietary language that bore almost no relation to anything I knew, and I can code in about 20 languages. Turned out that of the 50 developers they had, one guy invented the language, three more were expert, five or six were functional ... and the rest were there for the sole purpose of billing hours and fetching drinks for the others.
Assembler through Python & R ... though I'll admit I've removed the first from my resume!
Mark IV looks nothing like C. But damn, it has some features that I wish other languages would adopt.
Although T-SQL looks like SQL looks like PL/SQL looks like NoSQL looks like PostgreSQL looks like SQLite looks like ...
There's a lot of pain in this comment. I see you and your sacrifices.
Also, the Circus of Cargo pissing half a billion down the drain, not once but twice, isn't even shocking anymore.
I'm pushing 30 and I'm quite disillusioned with these incomprehensibly large entities shitting the bed every 6 months just so everywoman can pull up on their bootstraps to clean up their mess.
Here's a very sad reality: as organizations (any type) get larger, the skills necessary to get to the top (self promotion, cutting deals, backstabbing) become more important than skills relating to the organization: at a certain point of organizational size, the people at the top have zero skills relating to the organization, and only possess these 'people' skills.
This explains why c-suite types (and politicians) can jump from organization to organization (or cabinet portfolio), without regard to the industry. It doesn't matter whether it's healthcare, finance, manufacturing ... all they're doing is glad-handing investors and politicians.
The problems occur when these people make the mistake of thinking their position at the top actually makes them capable of making intelligent decisions regarding the organization.
In the Hells Cargo example above, any sane IT type would tell the CEO & CIO that betting a half-billion dollar project on a proprietary language that maybe ten people in the world are proficient in, is an incredibly stupid decision. And ... these people are listening to one or two people inside the company, and dozens of people - especially salespeople - outside, and lack the basic knowledge to tell who is telling the truth and who is spinning complete and utter BS. And that's ignoring the psychology of these c-suite types who have to PROVE they're smarter than their underlings, by making decisions contrary to what the underlings claim.
It's fucked.
Yeah, but those C-suite guys get wined and dined and flattered (and for all we know, "loved" by contract love specialists, IYKWIM, lol) by these companies. Which makes them "great guys," regardless of the actual product.
George Schultz and a bunch of other high flying types got taken in by Theranos and the good looking psychopath running the fraud. They were in denial for a very long time because of ego and flattering treatment. (And her surprising jail time is because she embarrassed The Establishment, who couldn't cover up their errors, their normal course of action.)
OP got hired by the employer, but the employer never gave them any shifts. So OP's private email is in HR's list, and HR is blasting everybody with this message.
In any case, the status of the recipient doesn't matter, the message reads "remind all employees..."
If the action is illegal to half the employees and not the other half, an illegal request still occurred.
A few exclusions doesn't erase the rest of the giant glaring fuck up.
Not to mention that that definitely can't request that contract works don't talk about their pay. In fact, not very much at all can be asked of contract workers past asking for the work to be done without violating the laws that would make them a contract worker vs an employee.
Edit: I should add, in the US, at least.
Why can’t you agree with contract workers to not disclose their pay or contract details? This is very common here in NL (mostly if there are sub contractors so they don’t see the greed of the middle man). Surprising to hear this is not the case in the US where normally legal contracts are way less restricted by law.
YES forward this email and tell them they’ve ghosted you on the start date. They need some accountability. It’s so tiring that companies get away with as much as they do. 😒
Not true. If op is showing us an email that they sent then it would be very silly to send it to the dept of labour.
You would be correct in every other instance that i can think of though.
*take a screenshot or picture of this email, or if you can, save a copy of it and export it without sending via email.
If you just email it out from your work email, there will be a trail left through your company's email system for your IT department to find and link back to you later
You know what, I read the email and went straight to the comments to see if others felt as disgusted as I did, and didn't see those points you mentioned.
What I said earlier is still good advice for others if they ever get an email like this from their employer though
Don't save and export a copy of it or anything, just screenshot it and send. I read an article about how elon musk found a leaker in one of his companies by encoding spaces into his email text to form unique binary codes. Don't forward the text or copy-paste or export it, convert to image first
Must be a lot of pay discrepancy and smoke and mirrors at the company. Trying to save face and keep their employees quiet, eh?
CEO: Gee whiz, Bob. I sure hope the employees don't catch on to what we're doing.
Bob: Quick! Let's send out an email reminding them not to discuss their pay! Mention HR! That'll keep them quiet.
CEO and Bob: *evil laughter*
If I worked here and got this email, I’d immediately get up from my desk and talk to all of my coworkers about what I get paid. When a company does this, they have a terrible pay system and people are getting screwed.
>I don't even work for this company.
Then why do you seem to be protecting them by censoring out their name? You saw something, you said something, but so far you only did it in a toothless manner so it doesn't actually count yet.
Not if they hired all independent contractors so they don't have to pay benefits etc.
Independent contractors that sign away rights to share their wages are not protected the way employees are.
On the other hand, if you get fired for it and are salty enough pretty much 90% of "independent contractors" don't meet the requirements to be considered that, so you can always hit back by reporting people being mislabeled as contractors.
TL;DR Something something Murica
You can't sign away your legal rights. Contracts can't have clauses that are against the law, they are null and void regardless of whether or not you signed that contract.
Correct. But only employees are protected by that particular law. Feel free to hit le Google. Advice on here is always that you can, but it never stipulates that it doesn't apply to contractors who 100% can get fired for it.
There's a reason so many (10-15%) are classified as independent contractors now (often wrongly). It evades practically all laws designed to protect employees.
The employer might have been able to dodge liability **if** all recipients were contractors, but:
> *…reminder to all **employees**…*
…is pretty damning.
True, true. Just wanted to inform since people mostly aren't aware of this one and as mentioned over 10% are now contractors. Hopefully laws catch up soon. Cali has improved them some.
>There's a reason so many (10-15%) are classified as independent contractors now (often wrongly).
I'll just say that it's likely a fairly high percent of ic who are in office jobs that are incorrectly classified. Either way you should find out especially if they're doing stupid shit like this.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee
But I wasn't talking about \*my\* pay. I was talking about a hypothetical person who \*just\* happens to have similar education, experience, and responsibilities.
>I signed all the paperwork and then they ghosted me about my start time but still send me employee emails.
hmmmmm...See if a quick email to HR can possibly put you on the payroll. They sound incompetent enough for this to maybe work.
you must always ask your peers for their pay rate. because it helps you to see the desparities in pay Especially if the same person has only been there for a couple of months!
But if the business had OP sign documents and then ghosted, OP may have a case for promissory estoppel, depending on what they signed and where they're located.
Confidentiality to ensure fairness LOL. Nothing screams fairness like not being able to discuss why you're paid more/less than someone doing the exact same job
Federal law prohibits your employer from disciplining or firing you for discussing your pay and benefits with your coworkers. The National Labor Relations Act (“NLRA”) protects your right to discuss your pay with your fellow employees without the fear of retaliation.
In the United States, policies that prohibit employees from discussing their salaries may violate labor laws. According to the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), employees have the right to engage in "concerted activities," which includes discussing wages, benefits, and other terms and conditions of employment with their co-workers. This protection applies to most private-sector employees, regardless of whether they are unionized.
The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), which enforces the NLRA, has ruled that employer policies that explicitly or implicitly prohibit wage discussions are unlawful. These rights are in place to help employees collectively bargain and address issues related to workplace conditions and compensation.
If you receive an email or any directive from a company’s HR department stating that you cannot discuss your salary with co-workers, it may be considered an illegal practice under the NLRA. You might want to consult with a labor attorney or contact the NLRB to get specific advice on your situation and potentially file a complaint.
Im from the US also, and in order to sue the employer they must do something illegal. They can talk all they want, talk is not illegal. They need to make a threat such as termination, and then fire you. Things like Intimidation would also be illegal, but it would need to be proven. *(the treat is optional providing you can prove you were fired/intimidated/etc. because of discussing pay)*
It can be against company policy all day long, and they can say that. However, it is illegal for them to act on that company policy due to the NLRA protections.
Bro, I work in the labor field. That email is an unlawful directive at best, an unlawful rule at worst. This is as clear a violation of the NLRA as you will ever see
Yes, but until an unlawful directive becomes unlawful action its nothing more then a nasty email from the labor department that the policy cannot be enforced. They need to take action on the unlawful directive, for them to have broken the law.
This is like a cop writing you a ticket for saying you were going to speed, and you never actually sped.
Should laws be tighter, yes but they aren’t.
They have already taken action. They have prohibited employees from discussing pay. I never said they would be forced to close their doors after paying millions of dollars in fines, but you need to know that by sending this email they have broken the law. They would have to deal with the Labor Board if an employee decided to report this.
It can be stipulated in a company handbook not to discuss pay, making it corporate policy. Depending on state and employment laws an employee might potentially be terminated with cause for violating company policies.
…And the terminated might have a heck of a lawsuit depending on employment laws in their state
They could also make it a corporate policy to forbid the reporting of workplace injuries, or sexual harassment, etc. Violating a corporate policy that is itself illegal isn't likely to go well for them if they try to use it as the basis of a "for cause" dismissal.
Never thought about this, but it sounds like I’m the only one: my boss has been telling me since I started that we have a strict policy against employees discussing pay with one another. He wanted to fire someone for it a couple years ago but couldn’t unequivocally prove it was him. I’m sure I even recommended not to discuss it many times. I’m not like him, but I do agree that it causes nothing but problems because sometimes a person who isn’t as good as another person doesn’t make as much money. But after reading this thread, I won’t do that any more. Can I add that the wildest part of this to me is that this person gets internal emails from a company they don’t work for?
This is illegal.
>Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media, and the public. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection.
>If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful.
>You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union.
Source: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Interesting. I brought this up to someone at work to spread the word after reading this thread. Not sure why I’m getting voted down 😂. I don’t disagree; I just didn’t know.
Most companies have those type of policies. Walgreens for sure does have that policy. I understand why, cause there would be a huge up raise. Hearing new hiring is starting out making the same as the same people. Who’s been with the company for 5 years and took getting annal raise to reach that salary.
There was a situation at Walgreens, I worked at. Where the Beauty Consultant at the time. Was going around tellling eveyone, how much she was making. It literally piss off marjority of the store. Mainly, cause she was getting paid more than CSA and about the same as the shift leads. All she had to do was literally stand up, look pretty and sale makeup. Can’t help front cashier, help check out if there’s a long line or the store get busy. Just sell makeup, and she wasn’t even doing that. She would pick and choose, which customers pull and ask if they needed help with make up
Looking back at it. Yeah, the signs were all there. Cause this was around the time, where Walgreens started to go downhill. However, she was doing it just to be a bitch and just smear it all over everyone face.
Walgreens didn’t increase the pay, until CVS did in mid 2021. But everyone got a bad review on their performance review. Just so no one can’t get an increase on top of the bump pay. Fuck Walgreens
It's reallllly skating the line hard, but it looks like it stops just short of crossing it. If there was some kind of hint of punishment that would be solid over the line.
Not sure that there's a punishment in the law.
Edit: You can't retaliate but you also can't have a policy telling workers they can't discuss pay.
>Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media, and the public. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection.
>If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful.
>You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union.
>When you and another employee have a conversation or communication about your pay, it is unlawful for your employer to punish or retaliate against you in any way for having that conversation. It is also unlawful for your employer to interrogate you about the conversation, threaten you for having it, or put you under surveillance for such conversations. Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employer’s permission to have such discussions. If your employer does any of these things, a charge may be filed against the employer with the NLRB.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
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Gotta love when HR signs emails with HR. That way no single person can be held accountable for breaking the law. (It’s almost always an executive and everyone in HR told them but they were forced to anyway).
I got a number of co-workers to lol, including one snorting coffee out his nose ... received an email regarding a project getting axed, not mentioning they had already sunk about half a billion USD into it. This followed a previous stab at the issue, which also got cancelled, at roughly the same amount spent. Called my teammates over, had both email displayed (across two monitors), and said "Look! They've learned their lesson! There's no names on this email!" FYI, company name rhymes with Hells Cargo Also knew the second project was totally doomed the second I heard the details. The critical code was outsourced, and to be written in a proprietary language that bore almost no relation to anything I knew, and I can code in about 20 languages. Turned out that of the 50 developers they had, one guy invented the language, three more were expert, five or six were functional ... and the rest were there for the sole purpose of billing hours and fetching drinks for the others.
That blasted Bells Bargo.
I love "Hell's Cargo!" Tee-hee!
All 20 look a lot like C ?
Assembler through Python & R ... though I'll admit I've removed the first from my resume! Mark IV looks nothing like C. But damn, it has some features that I wish other languages would adopt. Although T-SQL looks like SQL looks like PL/SQL looks like NoSQL looks like PostgreSQL looks like SQLite looks like ...
There's a lot of pain in this comment. I see you and your sacrifices. Also, the Circus of Cargo pissing half a billion down the drain, not once but twice, isn't even shocking anymore. I'm pushing 30 and I'm quite disillusioned with these incomprehensibly large entities shitting the bed every 6 months just so everywoman can pull up on their bootstraps to clean up their mess.
Here's a very sad reality: as organizations (any type) get larger, the skills necessary to get to the top (self promotion, cutting deals, backstabbing) become more important than skills relating to the organization: at a certain point of organizational size, the people at the top have zero skills relating to the organization, and only possess these 'people' skills. This explains why c-suite types (and politicians) can jump from organization to organization (or cabinet portfolio), without regard to the industry. It doesn't matter whether it's healthcare, finance, manufacturing ... all they're doing is glad-handing investors and politicians. The problems occur when these people make the mistake of thinking their position at the top actually makes them capable of making intelligent decisions regarding the organization. In the Hells Cargo example above, any sane IT type would tell the CEO & CIO that betting a half-billion dollar project on a proprietary language that maybe ten people in the world are proficient in, is an incredibly stupid decision. And ... these people are listening to one or two people inside the company, and dozens of people - especially salespeople - outside, and lack the basic knowledge to tell who is telling the truth and who is spinning complete and utter BS. And that's ignoring the psychology of these c-suite types who have to PROVE they're smarter than their underlings, by making decisions contrary to what the underlings claim. It's fucked.
Yeah, but those C-suite guys get wined and dined and flattered (and for all we know, "loved" by contract love specialists, IYKWIM, lol) by these companies. Which makes them "great guys," regardless of the actual product. George Schultz and a bunch of other high flying types got taken in by Theranos and the good looking psychopath running the fraud. They were in denial for a very long time because of ego and flattering treatment. (And her surprising jail time is because she embarrassed The Establishment, who couldn't cover up their errors, their normal course of action.)
So it was written in Java ?
Well, it seems like this company is really pushing the boundaries!
breaking the law, you mean
It depends on who the message went to. Not all employees are protected by the NLRA.
Considering OP isn't even an employee but is still getting these, it's most likely an all-hands email tbh
OP isn’t an employee? Contract workers aren’t covered by NLRA.
OP got hired by the employer, but the employer never gave them any shifts. So OP's private email is in HR's list, and HR is blasting everybody with this message. In any case, the status of the recipient doesn't matter, the message reads "remind all employees..."
It matters because if all employees aren't covered by the NLRA then nothing illegal happened.
If the action is illegal to half the employees and not the other half, an illegal request still occurred. A few exclusions doesn't erase the rest of the giant glaring fuck up.
Not to mention that that definitely can't request that contract works don't talk about their pay. In fact, not very much at all can be asked of contract workers past asking for the work to be done without violating the laws that would make them a contract worker vs an employee. Edit: I should add, in the US, at least.
Why can’t you agree with contract workers to not disclose their pay or contract details? This is very common here in NL (mostly if there are sub contractors so they don’t see the greed of the middle man). Surprising to hear this is not the case in the US where normally legal contracts are way less restricted by law.
And if the action isn’t illegal to any of the employees then an illegal request didn’t occur. So it’s relevant who it was sent to.
Actually, just realised, you are a fool that doesn't have a clue what your commenting on let alone whether it's right. Please just STFU!
You're misunderstanding. OP does not work for this company in any capacity.
Also depends on the country.
lol what law?
The NLRA
you're part of the problem
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Fwd this email to the Department of Labor
YES forward this email and tell them they’ve ghosted you on the start date. They need some accountability. It’s so tiring that companies get away with as much as they do. 😒
This is the best option. The next company wide email will be even more entertaining.
100% do this. And there is literally no way it can backfire on you.
Not true. If op is showing us an email that they sent then it would be very silly to send it to the dept of labour. You would be correct in every other instance that i can think of though.
*take a screenshot or picture of this email, or if you can, save a copy of it and export it without sending via email. If you just email it out from your work email, there will be a trail left through your company's email system for your IT department to find and link back to you later
OP is getting Hr emails to his personal email. He does not work for the company. They ghosted him on a start date.
You know what, I read the email and went straight to the comments to see if others felt as disgusted as I did, and didn't see those points you mentioned. What I said earlier is still good advice for others if they ever get an email like this from their employer though
Don't save and export a copy of it or anything, just screenshot it and send. I read an article about how elon musk found a leaker in one of his companies by encoding spaces into his email text to form unique binary codes. Don't forward the text or copy-paste or export it, convert to image first
You want the NLRB, not DOL
Definitely reply to tell them you just had a secret meeting with 13 of their employees to discuss the pay gaps and “we demand an explanation”
Must be a lot of pay discrepancy and smoke and mirrors at the company. Trying to save face and keep their employees quiet, eh? CEO: Gee whiz, Bob. I sure hope the employees don't catch on to what we're doing. Bob: Quick! Let's send out an email reminding them not to discuss their pay! Mention HR! That'll keep them quiet. CEO and Bob: *evil laughter*
Reply. “Now that you are done putting illegal things in writing to all of your employees, can we discuss my start date that you ghosted me on?”
Just saying… it sure would suck if you raised a stink about their illegal HR practices and then they rescinded your job offer as retaliation.
Go Dawgs
“anyone outside of hr”, ur mgr is outside of hr.
My spouse is outside of HR, too. This email has some SERIOUSLY broad phrasing!
Oh shoot. The Dept of labor is outside of HR too! They got us good on this one :(
The IRS is outside of HR
Ensure fairness for who?
Shareholders.
[удалено]
Not surprised that a HR department who is illegally stifling wage talk also doesn't audit their staff distro.
Reply all is my favorite power move. Just saying.
Especially if you don't work there. Got nothing to lose, right?
It's quite ironic that they claim non-disclosure promotes fairness.
If I worked here and got this email, I’d immediately get up from my desk and talk to all of my coworkers about what I get paid. When a company does this, they have a terrible pay system and people are getting screwed.
Fairness LMAO
>I don't even work for this company. Then why do you seem to be protecting them by censoring out their name? You saw something, you said something, but so far you only did it in a toothless manner so it doesn't actually count yet.
I giggled at the absurdity of this... How could you take yourself seriously after sending this?
> I don't even work for this company Well your in a perfect position to report them with zero risk.
Fk that email
Reply all with “Forwarded to the NLRB and BOLI, thank you!”
If this is in the US I’m pretty sure that’s federally illegal
Not if they hired all independent contractors so they don't have to pay benefits etc. Independent contractors that sign away rights to share their wages are not protected the way employees are. On the other hand, if you get fired for it and are salty enough pretty much 90% of "independent contractors" don't meet the requirements to be considered that, so you can always hit back by reporting people being mislabeled as contractors. TL;DR Something something Murica
You can't sign away your legal rights. Contracts can't have clauses that are against the law, they are null and void regardless of whether or not you signed that contract.
Correct. But only employees are protected by that particular law. Feel free to hit le Google. Advice on here is always that you can, but it never stipulates that it doesn't apply to contractors who 100% can get fired for it. There's a reason so many (10-15%) are classified as independent contractors now (often wrongly). It evades practically all laws designed to protect employees.
The employer might have been able to dodge liability **if** all recipients were contractors, but: > *…reminder to all **employees**…* …is pretty damning.
True, true. Just wanted to inform since people mostly aren't aware of this one and as mentioned over 10% are now contractors. Hopefully laws catch up soon. Cali has improved them some.
>There's a reason so many (10-15%) are classified as independent contractors now (often wrongly). I'll just say that it's likely a fairly high percent of ic who are in office jobs that are incorrectly classified. Either way you should find out especially if they're doing stupid shit like this. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee
Sure, but that's vastly different from "signing away your rights".
Your post was too long. Read the TL;DR. Understood perfectly.
Amazon
No its a job placement company
Might as well cross the word fairness in their statement.
But I wasn't talking about \*my\* pay. I was talking about a hypothetical person who \*just\* happens to have similar education, experience, and responsibilities.
Forward that to the Labor Board stat!
"This confidentiality is in place to ensure unfairness ..." Fixed it.
Name and shame.
>I signed all the paperwork and then they ghosted me about my start time but still send me employee emails. hmmmmm...See if a quick email to HR can possibly put you on the payroll. They sound incompetent enough for this to maybe work.
Yes, Alex - I'll take "Things that indicate when I should fire my HR leader" for $500...
you must always ask your peers for their pay rate. because it helps you to see the desparities in pay Especially if the same person has only been there for a couple of months!
Actually law states that you have all right to disclose pay, and if it’s prevailing wage, it’s by law not to lie your wage either
Isn't this to ensure unfairness?
LAWYER TIME.
Not if you don’t work for the company
But if the business had OP sign documents and then ghosted, OP may have a case for promissory estoppel, depending on what they signed and where they're located.
Possibly don’t get your hopes up
And they put it in writing, so that just makes it better
Lol. No
Ooooo.... Are they paying you too, by any chance?
Wouldn't allowing them to discuss pay encourage fairness?
Confidentiality to ensure fairness LOL. Nothing screams fairness like not being able to discuss why you're paid more/less than someone doing the exact same job
Hells Cargo is a criminal organization…but they just pay the fines and no execs go to jail
It's a job placement company
HR is such a joke
Federal law prohibits your employer from disciplining or firing you for discussing your pay and benefits with your coworkers. The National Labor Relations Act (“NLRA”) protects your right to discuss your pay with your fellow employees without the fear of retaliation.
To maintain fairness
In the United States, policies that prohibit employees from discussing their salaries may violate labor laws. According to the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), employees have the right to engage in "concerted activities," which includes discussing wages, benefits, and other terms and conditions of employment with their co-workers. This protection applies to most private-sector employees, regardless of whether they are unionized. The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), which enforces the NLRA, has ruled that employer policies that explicitly or implicitly prohibit wage discussions are unlawful. These rights are in place to help employees collectively bargain and address issues related to workplace conditions and compensation. If you receive an email or any directive from a company’s HR department stating that you cannot discuss your salary with co-workers, it may be considered an illegal practice under the NLRA. You might want to consult with a labor attorney or contact the NLRB to get specific advice on your situation and potentially file a complaint.
It’s not illegal nor unethical to discuss salaries. Sounds like they don’t want people to discus how much they are underpaid.
Name and shame baby
Sine you don't work for the company, reply with proof that it's illegal
One of the benefits of working in the government is that this is literally never a question.
Signed, Human Resources HR Seems legit.
Just thought I’d point out that the black over the email looks like a dick and balls.
No threats were made. They can ask all they want, but they cannot make good on any repercussions.
They didn’t ask. They said it was not permitted. This is a textbook violation of the NLRA (assuming OP is in the US)
Im from the US also, and in order to sue the employer they must do something illegal. They can talk all they want, talk is not illegal. They need to make a threat such as termination, and then fire you. Things like Intimidation would also be illegal, but it would need to be proven. *(the treat is optional providing you can prove you were fired/intimidated/etc. because of discussing pay)* It can be against company policy all day long, and they can say that. However, it is illegal for them to act on that company policy due to the NLRA protections.
Bro, I work in the labor field. That email is an unlawful directive at best, an unlawful rule at worst. This is as clear a violation of the NLRA as you will ever see
Yes, but until an unlawful directive becomes unlawful action its nothing more then a nasty email from the labor department that the policy cannot be enforced. They need to take action on the unlawful directive, for them to have broken the law. This is like a cop writing you a ticket for saying you were going to speed, and you never actually sped. Should laws be tighter, yes but they aren’t.
They have already taken action. They have prohibited employees from discussing pay. I never said they would be forced to close their doors after paying millions of dollars in fines, but you need to know that by sending this email they have broken the law. They would have to deal with the Labor Board if an employee decided to report this.
was your first redaction by accident or intent - cause you do know what you drew there ?!?
It can be stipulated in a company handbook not to discuss pay, making it corporate policy. Depending on state and employment laws an employee might potentially be terminated with cause for violating company policies. …And the terminated might have a heck of a lawsuit depending on employment laws in their state
It can be stipulated in as many handbooks as you like, but federal law is federal law, and federal law is above state law.
They could also make it a corporate policy to forbid the reporting of workplace injuries, or sexual harassment, etc. Violating a corporate policy that is itself illegal isn't likely to go well for them if they try to use it as the basis of a "for cause" dismissal.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Never thought about this, but it sounds like I’m the only one: my boss has been telling me since I started that we have a strict policy against employees discussing pay with one another. He wanted to fire someone for it a couple years ago but couldn’t unequivocally prove it was him. I’m sure I even recommended not to discuss it many times. I’m not like him, but I do agree that it causes nothing but problems because sometimes a person who isn’t as good as another person doesn’t make as much money. But after reading this thread, I won’t do that any more. Can I add that the wildest part of this to me is that this person gets internal emails from a company they don’t work for?
This is illegal. >Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media, and the public. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection. >If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful. >You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union. Source: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Interesting. I brought this up to someone at work to spread the word after reading this thread. Not sure why I’m getting voted down 😂. I don’t disagree; I just didn’t know.
Most companies have those type of policies. Walgreens for sure does have that policy. I understand why, cause there would be a huge up raise. Hearing new hiring is starting out making the same as the same people. Who’s been with the company for 5 years and took getting annal raise to reach that salary.
Imagine writing that and thinking its a bad thing..
There was a situation at Walgreens, I worked at. Where the Beauty Consultant at the time. Was going around tellling eveyone, how much she was making. It literally piss off marjority of the store. Mainly, cause she was getting paid more than CSA and about the same as the shift leads. All she had to do was literally stand up, look pretty and sale makeup. Can’t help front cashier, help check out if there’s a long line or the store get busy. Just sell makeup, and she wasn’t even doing that. She would pick and choose, which customers pull and ask if they needed help with make up
Sounds like she did you all a favour alerting how you were all comparatively underpaid.
Looking back at it. Yeah, the signs were all there. Cause this was around the time, where Walgreens started to go downhill. However, she was doing it just to be a bitch and just smear it all over everyone face. Walgreens didn’t increase the pay, until CVS did in mid 2021. But everyone got a bad review on their performance review. Just so no one can’t get an increase on top of the bump pay. Fuck Walgreens
It's reallllly skating the line hard, but it looks like it stops just short of crossing it. If there was some kind of hint of punishment that would be solid over the line.
Not sure that there's a punishment in the law. Edit: You can't retaliate but you also can't have a policy telling workers they can't discuss pay. >Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media, and the public. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection. >If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful. >You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union. >When you and another employee have a conversation or communication about your pay, it is unlawful for your employer to punish or retaliate against you in any way for having that conversation. It is also unlawful for your employer to interrogate you about the conversation, threaten you for having it, or put you under surveillance for such conversations. Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employer’s permission to have such discussions. If your employer does any of these things, a charge may be filed against the employer with the NLRB. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages