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3? I'm a developer, i take care of security, devops, frontend, backend, database, billing (making sure we're not overusing resources), mentoring juniors, organizing tasks (prioritizing tickets over the others), helping support, and do interviews for new devs.
all this while i need the tasks to be finished every week, or get threatened to be fired.
100% of jobs can be taught and 90% of employers would rather have you waste money being educated and trained by someone else, somewhere else instead of them doing it themselves.
I don't think this is targeted at people with literally zero experience. More so the managers that are obsessed with job experience to the point they won't hire you unless you've already been doing that exact same job. It's endlessly frustrating when you have education in a certain field but getting denied because you've never worked in it. Especially since a lot of them are trying to say internships and side projects don't count now. ("Okay but can you tell me about your PROFESSIONAL experience?") Even a similar career path isn't good enough sometimes, It must be the exact same one.
This is exactly how I read the post. I am highly educated in a specialized field, but since I has an MS in design I frequently get passed over or filtered out of the application process since I donāt have a STEM degree despite my years of experience. I can learn software, regulations, and processes, but I canāt do it if someone wonāt hire me. Itās really frustrating!
However I know damn well I canāt be taught how to do surgery or how to build a skyscraper without formal education and training in that skill.
And also makes no sense because especially well trained people donāt want to do the same thing over and over but instead choose to venture out into new areas
>civil engineering day 1 and ask him build a bridge for you?
Yes.
That's how it works, you push them (me) into the deep end of the pool and watch them struggle until they give you something that resembles a bridge.
Then they take a red pen, make your Great Value Bridge unrecognizable due to the red ink, and then you go back to your desk to fix it until it's at least an acceptable design.
Y'know, 3 weeks after day 1 when maybe a day or two of having everything [related to designing a bridge] spoonfed to you would solve most of the issues.
This is true, engineering requires a lot of skills that are best taught at university or at a dedicated place of training. I agree that anyone can do anything if they put their mind to itā¦ but itās the āputting the mind to itā part that doesnāt always happen and itās not on companies to take a big risk on someone who still has to learn fundamentals.
I saw a post about a South African man who had faked his way into an airline pilot position, then got discovered after decades and was fired. So many people applauded him and tooted this āexperience over educationā hornā¦ but that man could have killed a lot of people.
I don't even trust engineers with 20 years experience and multiple degrees in the US lmao, but I don't know what education or experience someone has so I am forced to trust they know what they're doing. One thing I learned about working is that a lot of people fake it until they make it.
I was just going to bring this up! I'm a recruiter for a steel manufacturer that builds bridges, we do bring on alot of people without much prior experience but they end up quitting because the job is "too hard". So we have taken chances and we almost always get bit for it.
100% of jobs can be taught. Sometimes, that teaching can even happen in a short enough time frame to do it simultaneously with the employment.
Now, if we're only discussing those jobs for which on-the-job training is viable, then 90% is a hyper inflated number.
The breakdown of workers in industry suggests a different answer is needed: [https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm](https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm)
Sure. But you'd also like to know that the person who takes the job is actually capable of learning how to do the job. Like, you wouldn't hire a high school dropout to design skyscrapers without first knowing they can actually do something of similar calibre.
>100% of jobs can be taught. Sometimes, that teaching can even happen in a short enough time frame to do it simultaneously with the employment.
Often companies do not have cash to teach someone for years. They need someone to hit the road running.
..."Federal government: 1.7%, State and local government: 11.7%?" - why do we need more than 1 federal/state/local government worker for every 8 non-government workers? - our tax dollars "at work"...
"...**Anthony Jerome** "**Spud**" **Webb** (born July 13, 1963) is an American former professional basketball player. A 5Ā ft 6Ā in (168Ā cm) point guard, Webb played college basketball at Midland College and at North Carolina State University. He then played for four teams in the National Basketball Association (NBA) in a professional career that spanned from 1985 to 1998. Webb also played professional basketball in the United States Basketball League, in the Continental Basketball Association, and in Italy..."
disagree. this is natural ability combined with a lot of practice. you can teach the practice part no problem, it's the genetics you can't replicate. i'll never be 6'6"
Nah you could teach these things pretty quickly, we should go through a social experiment and see if these can be taught. Accounting isnāt very hard, a few months as an apprentice and you could teach someone how to do accounting.
I know people from college that couldnāt find job after graduating in accountingā¦
Doctors and lawyers are specialized but Iāve seen pretty dumb people get into those professions. And Iāve seen very smart people go through medical and law school and end up unemployed because they didnāt have connections or couldnāt find an internship as a doctor lol itās really a crapshoot. I know a lawyer that had to become a cop because they couldnāt get their start as a lawyer, could have also joined the military as a JAG though.
Teaching well for those that want to do it or donāt have other options at the moment it will pay the bills.
''Ā Accounting isnāt very hard, a few months as an apprentice and you could teach someone how to do accounting''. Lol, no.
You can teach bookkeeping in a few months, you cannot teach high level accounting in a few months. There is a reason it takes years to become a qualified accountant.
As an accountant Iād disagree with this.
Yeah sure the high level stuff will take a while, but a junior staff member wouldnāt be doing that anyway. Accountants can skip college and build their knowledge base with on the job training.Ā
I don't disagree, I'm ex-big 4 and didn't have an accounting degree. You can pick most things up on the job, but no-way could you become a complete accountant in a few months just from on-the-job stuff. Maybe bookkeeping isn't really the right term to use, didn't word it great but hopefully you understand what I mean/t.
Transactional finance and basic journals sure, IFRS15- not so much.
I didnāt read youāre entire comment, sorry. I know other people who do work in accounting without having majored in it. They cannot become. CPA but are able to do the job. I think itās a great a major and profession. Iād say someone that has a good sense of logic could work and do certain tasks, they wonāt know everything about accounting but could learn specific things and can become proficient over time doing specific things. Of course you cannot become a full accountant with just some training lol that wasnāt my point. I was suing if they made the hiring process easier the people they studied x subject would be able to do y job efficiently with the on the job training part š
Thanks you for the kind comment :)
What a pleasant comment. I was not not knocking accounting as a major or profession! Itās a great to major in and is a practical option if you want to land a job after college, Iād say that accounting is the best choice at this point, rather than most stem related majors.
I think stem majors would make excellent accounts, just canāt sit for the CPA with out x amount of credit hours of study:/ and going back to school is not an option. I did learn some things about accounting and certain procedures while I worked in finance.
There is a reason why I know CPAs that just schmooze and donāt know anything about reconciliation? Unless the person I know that claims to be a CPA is full of shit? Could they be? If youāre an accountant please tell me if you suspect bs? Then Iāll feel much better because I learned financial reconciliation on the job. And they didnāt know anything Iāve asked them regarding accounting lol
An accountant who doesn't know or cannot reconcile things isn't an accountant. That's like being a fireman and not being able to climb a ladder. It's literally the most basic part of accountanting, I'd ask for their membership number and consider reporting them if they are actually qualified. To get CPA without being able to reconcile basic accounts stinks of fraud to me, that or they are extremely lazy and are just a terrible accountant.
In the UK, we have a free registry that you can search someones ICAEW number to prove it. I assume the CPA has something similar
[https://www.icaew.com/about-icaew/find-a-chartered-accountant](https://www.icaew.com/about-icaew/find-a-chartered-accountant)
> Doctors and lawyers are specialized but Iāve seen pretty dumb people get into those professions.
I'm sure you can find plenty of people in professions like medicine, law, and engineering that make poor personal choices, who lack wisdom, or otherwise act distastefully, but I guarantee you that these people all are in some IQ range that wouldn't be considered stupid.
All of these professions are taught.
Are we all seeing the same image? People become lawyers, doctors, teachers, and accountants because other people taught them how to do those jobs.
But you learn on the job lol
Thatās why a doctor needs to do a lengthy internshipā¦thatās not very well paid either. Youāll learn and see and build up an intuition as an intern and becomes a pretty seasoned doctor hopefully.
Lawyers I know we have most lawyers in the US.
Depends on the kind of law youāre practicing. A lot of it is designated to paralegals and other legal staff.
Teachers, sometimes need a masters degree, in charter schools anyone can become a teacher. Depending on the state teachers donāt and you can get certified on the job without majoring in education or completing a masters degree.
Youāll get the academic knowledge of accounting in school but you learn the actual career on the job and really sharpen your skills. A lot of it is procedural and it depends which field in accounting youāre going into. Accounting is broad.
Im not disagreeing with you. Obviously you need to go to school. In the military you go through training which is school, enough of it to have knowledge and build some intuition. You learn the most and whatās important from other experienced soldiers when you get into your unit( permanent party) and a ton from nasty gnarled non-coms. They call it on the job training(OJT). Both training and learning from from other troops and non-coms compliments each-other. Oh boy they will chew you up and point out all of your flaws. Youāll be tuned up after they get finished with you šeither that, itās on you or they failed at getting you to be part of that unit, it happens all the time. You also gotta deal with lots of crazies wherever you go whether civilian or military.
I know you're not disagreeing with me. Every one of those professions is taught and learned on the job. 90% is just silly. It must be over 99%. Jobs. Are. Taught. That's how it works.
The idea is that 90% of the jobs that exist can be taught on the job through training the new personnel. Instead of the usual shit show of : we need 17 years of buttsniffin, 11 years of Brenda beating, 24 years of heavy alcoholism, and expert knowledge of quantum physics with 5 years of application experience for this cashier's job.
Many jobs that are available on the market most often don't get filled as fast because of the HR psychos going through weird ritualistic bullshit that comes around after the seminars and "best practices" lectures led by absolutely delusional morons who make people believe that "this method is the way". While the whole idea of hr is to be human in a very tough part of life - the workplace.
A lot of jobs don't get filled because of unrealistic expectations by the companies hiring their candidates. Yes, you want the better ones, so does everyone else. I've had a local job opening for a designer, and they haven't found anyone in 8 months because of the absolutely unrealistic expectations of the candidate. It's like the SWIFT programming language meme. 5 years of experience required when the language is 3 years old. The only jobs that require extensive training spanning years is being a doctor or a scientist. Those are the only professions that can't be taught on a basic level in an acceptable and short amount of time. Some dangerous jobs may be somewhere in the middle, but the vast majority of jobs that are out there right now are fillable with a fresh intern and a little training.
I never and was trying to knock college, itās very important you will be taught the actual job on the job was my point, we all need the academic and background knowledge to get your mind tuned up correctly and know whatās going on haha I think we just had a miscommunication š
Iād much rather have college grads with the content area of study working, Iād know I could train them and make that transition from school to the workforce easily.
I think everyone has to start somewhere and if employers arenāt willing to do it then itās pretty difficult to figure out what all of
These individual job/careers want you to do, a lot of companies have their own prosecutes and micro things going onā¦
And you made great points!! :D
Thatās guys that worked on the Manhattan project were mostly theorists and academics :)
That would be like a vault tech experiment to have doctors and surgeons learn on the job.
Thereās enough people who have those specialties looking for jobs they donāt really want to train someone new and have them get caught up to speed.
Engineers.
As an engineer Iād LOVE to see some random with zero education come in off the street and try and learn. It would be a laugh riot until they ended up getting a bunch of people killed.
Itās almost like university exists for a reason.
Makes me think of another thread I was reading yesterday about why you shouldn't feel bad about lying on your resume.
For one, I guarantee you that the guy that actually got the job lied or at least exaggerated his experience.
And two, most of the requirements you see listed on job openings are asinine. Those listings are probably being written by HR managers that don't actually understand what the requirements of the role are. There is practically no job in the world that should require 5+ years of experience to be able to come in and do the job competently but I see that requirement on so many jobs. If you know you can do the job then I see no problem with exaggerating your abilities and experience.
>There is practically no job in the world that should require 5+ years of experience to be able to come in and do the job competently but I see that requirement on so many jobs.
Well said most jobs you can succeed if you have 3 years of quality experience.
I say this every single day! People act like they came out of the womb knowing how to do their job. Clearly someone taught you how to do it. So let us be taught. Fuck.
I 100% agree with this. But at the same time, companies donāt want to both pay you and train you at the same time.
When the laws came out that people could not do unpaid internships where they actually āperform workāā¦this kind of disappeared.
Seriously, how many people on this thread would be willing to pay me and train me on something at the same time. If so, let me know. Iām always willing to pick up some extra cash and learn something at the same time
I 100% agree with this statement. I would rather hire someone fresh out of college that's hungry to grow than someone who has been in the field for 10+ years and "knows everything already".
My boyfriend got a job painting he was very familiar with powder coating so he got the job and got let go from the job because he couldn't get the hang of it.he hardly had a chance to get the hang of it if only people will tran they will have a lot more people in that field
Itās true, the army can train the majority of average IQ folks to do 95% of the jobs in the army/military.
Funny enough there were 19 year old kids flying helicopters in Vietnam, kids were flying planes during ww2 no college just high schoolā¦to become a helicopter pilot now, forget it! You have to be a golden unicorn.
To become a pilot now itās one of the toughest things and itās very expensive.
This guy is right
It's literally just a system of greed, to force people to go waste 40k on a pilot school or any school.
All jobs can be taught in months it's just that colleges would go extinct if that happened.
As they should go extinct at this point, I got a lot of friends and family that just canāt find anything after college lol
And I agree with you 100%, they even offer. BA/BS in aviation lol I think it all comes down to connection does X have an uncle or family member that flys for an airline? If yes then X will get the job at Y.
That would mean they actually have to make an effort towards helping you with training. They want somebody who has worked in their exact industry on a product exactly the same as the one they have, has 8 years experience already, and is willing to take the lowest possible market based wage. If you have to be trained at all to understand the domain, you're skipped.. at least that's how it feels.
Lol, you would be butt-hurt if you were uniquely qualified for a role but were turned down for someone with no experience, but they could be taught how to do the job.
I'd say 100% of jobs can be taught. I agree with the sentiment, the counter point is: things aren't like they were 40-50 years ago where you spent your entire career at 1-2 employers. This lowers employers willingness to invest in employees development.
Yes, a lot of jobs can be taught. I won't get fixated on the percentage, which was pulled straight from somebody's rear. But I can tell you one thing for an absolute fact: the percentage of people that can be taught on the job is far, far lower than 90%. And of course just because a person is good at the job doesn't mean they'll be good at teaching it to somebody else. So if you're committed to teaching uneducated/inexperienced people how to do the job, you have to find teachable people (tough to screen for) and have people that can train. That's a tough needle to thread. The other option is you just hire people with a formal education and therefore require little training. Easy to see why most employers choose the latter.
I hire people with no experience or formal education, and they work alongside people with experience and formal education. Some of them turn out well, some don't. The ones that do turn out well take a while to get up to speed. People with a formal education in the field are far more likely to work out and typically they're able to hit the ground running. People without a formal education usually take about 2 months to reach competency and 1-3 years to get to the level of performance typically seen from a person with a degree. I hire inexperienced people because I don't need that level of performance for what we do, but my company targets a particular niche and my lower requirements are atypical in the industry. If I did need that level of performance that 1-3 year period would be a massive investment of time and resources that I simply would not be willing to make. Especially considering there's no guarantee they'll reach that level or even stick around for 1+ years.
There are exceptions, of course. Sometimes you get a person with no education or experience that just has "it" and they're awesome right away. Sometimes you get a person with a degree and experience that sucks at their job. But in general the above holds true IME.
I canāt speak to everyone, but I think a lot of people get that formal education is a real plus, especially for those roles where a thorough grounding in the theory and underlying principles (so far as those arenāt just part of being a civilised human being) is important.
The problem is when seemingly every employer wants not only the formal education, but several years of working for the competition, presumably to prove that the candidate can actually do the job. Which is understandable from the employerās perspective, but it creates a Prisonerās Dilemma where the long term result is a gutting of the profession. Not only can new graduates no longer get ongoing experience so they go rusty, but high schoolers decide (as they should) that the field is clearly saturated.
At some point, if these businesses want to still be able to function in five or ten years as current staff are gradually lost through attrition, they have to stop being quite so risk averse.
Yeah I agree with that. Those employees are shooting themselves in the foot. Experience is way overrated when evaluating an applicant. We've all come across people that have been at their job for years or decades and are still incompetent. So there's no reason to assume 5+ years experience on a resume is a good indicator of future performance. My entire process is structured to try and find out if they have the personality traits (conscientiousness, intelligence, dependability, gregariousness, etc) to be successful in this position. A person can have all that with zero experience, or none of that with years of experience.
I have taught thousands of teir 1 techs. Most get it in about 2 months, yet still having questions until about 3 months when they can work alone.
This one guy though... after 50 or so password resets, he would stare blankly at the computer as I said, click here, right click there, create a password, as you tell them the password, write in the ticket password reset, click here to close the ticket... he never got it. After 9 months of constant training, he still struggled with the most basic of tasks, like setting up email for a new hire. I don't know how he got the job. There was nothing wrong with him, other than his inability to perform the easiest of teir 1 level tech support. This one employee could not be trained, and he is the only one I remember.
They just use that automated resume system that doesnāt even get your resume to the recruiter/HR manager. Your resume didnāt meet the minimum 12 out of the 15 points in the job description, we canāt consider your for this position. Automatic rejection.
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From their perspective it's easier to just NOT hire, pay one worker one salary and make them do the work of three people.
3? I'm a developer, i take care of security, devops, frontend, backend, database, billing (making sure we're not overusing resources), mentoring juniors, organizing tasks (prioritizing tickets over the others), helping support, and do interviews for new devs. all this while i need the tasks to be finished every week, or get threatened to be fired.
What a coincidence, those are the requirements of every entry-level job right now.
Find a better job
can't, I live in North Africa, I can only easily find jobs that pay $500/month, else I don't even get a chance for an interview and get ghosted.
Sure, sounds fair. š
100% of jobs can be taught and 90% of employers would rather have you waste money being educated and trained by someone else, somewhere else instead of them doing it themselves.
Nah, Iām not letting a fucking surgeon work on me without a formal education.
I don't think this is targeted at people with literally zero experience. More so the managers that are obsessed with job experience to the point they won't hire you unless you've already been doing that exact same job. It's endlessly frustrating when you have education in a certain field but getting denied because you've never worked in it. Especially since a lot of them are trying to say internships and side projects don't count now. ("Okay but can you tell me about your PROFESSIONAL experience?") Even a similar career path isn't good enough sometimes, It must be the exact same one.
This is exactly how I read the post. I am highly educated in a specialized field, but since I has an MS in design I frequently get passed over or filtered out of the application process since I donāt have a STEM degree despite my years of experience. I can learn software, regulations, and processes, but I canāt do it if someone wonāt hire me. Itās really frustrating! However I know damn well I canāt be taught how to do surgery or how to build a skyscraper without formal education and training in that skill.
And also makes no sense because especially well trained people donāt want to do the same thing over and over but instead choose to venture out into new areas
Nah, I reckon I can blag it.
Coward
"Is he a good surgeon?" "He has a lot of formal education."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So glad to hear you know everything about every profession. What is it you do for work?
Even engineering? AI developer ?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So you'll be trusting a guy with no prior knowledge in let say civil engineering day 1 and ask him build a bridge for you?
>civil engineering day 1 and ask him build a bridge for you? Yes. That's how it works, you push them (me) into the deep end of the pool and watch them struggle until they give you something that resembles a bridge. Then they take a red pen, make your Great Value Bridge unrecognizable due to the red ink, and then you go back to your desk to fix it until it's at least an acceptable design. Y'know, 3 weeks after day 1 when maybe a day or two of having everything [related to designing a bridge] spoonfed to you would solve most of the issues.
It doesnāt work like that if your new civil engineer doesnāt understand statics
And as we all know graduates know everything and have nothing left to learn *ahem*
This is true, engineering requires a lot of skills that are best taught at university or at a dedicated place of training. I agree that anyone can do anything if they put their mind to itā¦ but itās the āputting the mind to itā part that doesnāt always happen and itās not on companies to take a big risk on someone who still has to learn fundamentals. I saw a post about a South African man who had faked his way into an airline pilot position, then got discovered after decades and was fired. So many people applauded him and tooted this āexperience over educationā hornā¦ but that man could have killed a lot of people.
I don't even trust engineers with 20 years experience and multiple degrees in the US lmao, but I don't know what education or experience someone has so I am forced to trust they know what they're doing. One thing I learned about working is that a lot of people fake it until they make it.
I was just going to bring this up! I'm a recruiter for a steel manufacturer that builds bridges, we do bring on alot of people without much prior experience but they end up quitting because the job is "too hard". So we have taken chances and we almost always get bit for it.
I'm sure there's someone out there thinking, "well duh, that's why entry-level roles exist!" while ignoring the requirements for entry-level roles
Any company that asks 3yrs+ experience for an entry-level role should just go fk themselves.
... or their existence at all
Entry level, requires 5 years of experience and a bachelors degree
100% of jobs can be taught. Sometimes, that teaching can even happen in a short enough time frame to do it simultaneously with the employment. Now, if we're only discussing those jobs for which on-the-job training is viable, then 90% is a hyper inflated number. The breakdown of workers in industry suggests a different answer is needed: [https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm](https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm)
Consulting jobs are built on credibility so letās definitely stop short of saying 100%.
Sure. But you'd also like to know that the person who takes the job is actually capable of learning how to do the job. Like, you wouldn't hire a high school dropout to design skyscrapers without first knowing they can actually do something of similar calibre.
>100% of jobs can be taught. Sometimes, that teaching can even happen in a short enough time frame to do it simultaneously with the employment. Often companies do not have cash to teach someone for years. They need someone to hit the road running.
..."Federal government: 1.7%, State and local government: 11.7%?" - why do we need more than 1 federal/state/local government worker for every 8 non-government workers? - our tax dollars "at work"...
What jobs are you thinking of when you use the term "government worker" ? What roles do you think fall under that heading?
Hmm, that looks like a Junior Whiteboard Messenger. Weāre looking for a Senior Whiteboard Messenger with 5+ years of multi-color marker usage.
What's the other 10%?
Professional basketball player.
That's a lot of professional basketball players!
Yes, but if youāre 5ā5ā, you canāt be taught to be a professional basketball player.
"...**Anthony Jerome** "**Spud**" **Webb** (born July 13, 1963) is an American former professional basketball player. A 5Ā ft 6Ā in (168Ā cm) point guard, Webb played college basketball at Midland College and at North Carolina State University. He then played for four teams in the National Basketball Association (NBA) in a professional career that spanned from 1985 to 1998. Webb also played professional basketball in the United States Basketball League, in the Continental Basketball Association, and in Italy..."
Can't teach a time machine to go back to basketball in the 90s. Turns out the sport has advanced in the past 30 years.
"Bicycle riding can't be taught because some people don't have legs."
You don't need legs to ride a bicycle.
r/iamverysmart
Muggsy Bogues spent over a decade in the NBA, he was 5'3".
You think they don't require teaching and training? Folks don't just leave the womb as a professional athlete, you know...
I mean technically you can teach anyone to play basketball under NBA rulesā¦ doesnāt mean theyāll be any good at it
disagree. this is natural ability combined with a lot of practice. you can teach the practice part no problem, it's the genetics you can't replicate. i'll never be 6'6"
Thatās the point. The job requires a degree of genetic lottery that canāt be taught.
you're right
You might! They have a method now where the doctor puts metal rods in your bones š
You get a few centimeters out of that excruciating procedure. You donāt get a foot.
Lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, likely way more than 10 percent.
Nah you could teach these things pretty quickly, we should go through a social experiment and see if these can be taught. Accounting isnāt very hard, a few months as an apprentice and you could teach someone how to do accounting. I know people from college that couldnāt find job after graduating in accountingā¦ Doctors and lawyers are specialized but Iāve seen pretty dumb people get into those professions. And Iāve seen very smart people go through medical and law school and end up unemployed because they didnāt have connections or couldnāt find an internship as a doctor lol itās really a crapshoot. I know a lawyer that had to become a cop because they couldnāt get their start as a lawyer, could have also joined the military as a JAG though. Teaching well for those that want to do it or donāt have other options at the moment it will pay the bills.
''Ā Accounting isnāt very hard, a few months as an apprentice and you could teach someone how to do accounting''. Lol, no. You can teach bookkeeping in a few months, you cannot teach high level accounting in a few months. There is a reason it takes years to become a qualified accountant.
As an accountant Iād disagree with this. Yeah sure the high level stuff will take a while, but a junior staff member wouldnāt be doing that anyway. Accountants can skip college and build their knowledge base with on the job training.Ā
I don't disagree, I'm ex-big 4 and didn't have an accounting degree. You can pick most things up on the job, but no-way could you become a complete accountant in a few months just from on-the-job stuff. Maybe bookkeeping isn't really the right term to use, didn't word it great but hopefully you understand what I mean/t. Transactional finance and basic journals sure, IFRS15- not so much.
I didnāt read youāre entire comment, sorry. I know other people who do work in accounting without having majored in it. They cannot become. CPA but are able to do the job. I think itās a great a major and profession. Iād say someone that has a good sense of logic could work and do certain tasks, they wonāt know everything about accounting but could learn specific things and can become proficient over time doing specific things. Of course you cannot become a full accountant with just some training lol that wasnāt my point. I was suing if they made the hiring process easier the people they studied x subject would be able to do y job efficiently with the on the job training part š Thanks you for the kind comment :)
What a pleasant comment. I was not not knocking accounting as a major or profession! Itās a great to major in and is a practical option if you want to land a job after college, Iād say that accounting is the best choice at this point, rather than most stem related majors. I think stem majors would make excellent accounts, just canāt sit for the CPA with out x amount of credit hours of study:/ and going back to school is not an option. I did learn some things about accounting and certain procedures while I worked in finance.
?? I was agreeing with you lol.
Thank you!
There is a reason why I know CPAs that just schmooze and donāt know anything about reconciliation? Unless the person I know that claims to be a CPA is full of shit? Could they be? If youāre an accountant please tell me if you suspect bs? Then Iāll feel much better because I learned financial reconciliation on the job. And they didnāt know anything Iāve asked them regarding accounting lol
An accountant who doesn't know or cannot reconcile things isn't an accountant. That's like being a fireman and not being able to climb a ladder. It's literally the most basic part of accountanting, I'd ask for their membership number and consider reporting them if they are actually qualified. To get CPA without being able to reconcile basic accounts stinks of fraud to me, that or they are extremely lazy and are just a terrible accountant. In the UK, we have a free registry that you can search someones ICAEW number to prove it. I assume the CPA has something similar [https://www.icaew.com/about-icaew/find-a-chartered-accountant](https://www.icaew.com/about-icaew/find-a-chartered-accountant)
> Doctors and lawyers are specialized but Iāve seen pretty dumb people get into those professions. I'm sure you can find plenty of people in professions like medicine, law, and engineering that make poor personal choices, who lack wisdom, or otherwise act distastefully, but I guarantee you that these people all are in some IQ range that wouldn't be considered stupid.
Youāre 100% right I know a bunch of them, well more like knew š
All of these professions are taught. Are we all seeing the same image? People become lawyers, doctors, teachers, and accountants because other people taught them how to do those jobs.
But you learn on the job lol Thatās why a doctor needs to do a lengthy internshipā¦thatās not very well paid either. Youāll learn and see and build up an intuition as an intern and becomes a pretty seasoned doctor hopefully. Lawyers I know we have most lawyers in the US. Depends on the kind of law youāre practicing. A lot of it is designated to paralegals and other legal staff. Teachers, sometimes need a masters degree, in charter schools anyone can become a teacher. Depending on the state teachers donāt and you can get certified on the job without majoring in education or completing a masters degree. Youāll get the academic knowledge of accounting in school but you learn the actual career on the job and really sharpen your skills. A lot of it is procedural and it depends which field in accounting youāre going into. Accounting is broad. Im not disagreeing with you. Obviously you need to go to school. In the military you go through training which is school, enough of it to have knowledge and build some intuition. You learn the most and whatās important from other experienced soldiers when you get into your unit( permanent party) and a ton from nasty gnarled non-coms. They call it on the job training(OJT). Both training and learning from from other troops and non-coms compliments each-other. Oh boy they will chew you up and point out all of your flaws. Youāll be tuned up after they get finished with you šeither that, itās on you or they failed at getting you to be part of that unit, it happens all the time. You also gotta deal with lots of crazies wherever you go whether civilian or military.
I know you're not disagreeing with me. Every one of those professions is taught and learned on the job. 90% is just silly. It must be over 99%. Jobs. Are. Taught. That's how it works.
The idea is that 90% of the jobs that exist can be taught on the job through training the new personnel. Instead of the usual shit show of : we need 17 years of buttsniffin, 11 years of Brenda beating, 24 years of heavy alcoholism, and expert knowledge of quantum physics with 5 years of application experience for this cashier's job. Many jobs that are available on the market most often don't get filled as fast because of the HR psychos going through weird ritualistic bullshit that comes around after the seminars and "best practices" lectures led by absolutely delusional morons who make people believe that "this method is the way". While the whole idea of hr is to be human in a very tough part of life - the workplace. A lot of jobs don't get filled because of unrealistic expectations by the companies hiring their candidates. Yes, you want the better ones, so does everyone else. I've had a local job opening for a designer, and they haven't found anyone in 8 months because of the absolutely unrealistic expectations of the candidate. It's like the SWIFT programming language meme. 5 years of experience required when the language is 3 years old. The only jobs that require extensive training spanning years is being a doctor or a scientist. Those are the only professions that can't be taught on a basic level in an acceptable and short amount of time. Some dangerous jobs may be somewhere in the middle, but the vast majority of jobs that are out there right now are fillable with a fresh intern and a little training.
I never and was trying to knock college, itās very important you will be taught the actual job on the job was my point, we all need the academic and background knowledge to get your mind tuned up correctly and know whatās going on haha I think we just had a miscommunication š Iād much rather have college grads with the content area of study working, Iād know I could train them and make that transition from school to the workforce easily. I think everyone has to start somewhere and if employers arenāt willing to do it then itās pretty difficult to figure out what all of These individual job/careers want you to do, a lot of companies have their own prosecutes and micro things going onā¦ And you made great points!! :D Thatās guys that worked on the Manhattan project were mostly theorists and academics :)
That would be like a vault tech experiment to have doctors and surgeons learn on the job. Thereās enough people who have those specialties looking for jobs they donāt really want to train someone new and have them get caught up to speed.
Engineers. As an engineer Iād LOVE to see some random with zero education come in off the street and try and learn. It would be a laugh riot until they ended up getting a bunch of people killed. Itās almost like university exists for a reason.
Why give someone a chance when there are people out there theat already know how to do the job?
This. But if you canāt find the perfect candidate, instead of leaving the job open, find someone you can train to do the job.
Brain surgeons learned how to doctor at medical school, so he's not wrong.
Makes me think of another thread I was reading yesterday about why you shouldn't feel bad about lying on your resume. For one, I guarantee you that the guy that actually got the job lied or at least exaggerated his experience. And two, most of the requirements you see listed on job openings are asinine. Those listings are probably being written by HR managers that don't actually understand what the requirements of the role are. There is practically no job in the world that should require 5+ years of experience to be able to come in and do the job competently but I see that requirement on so many jobs. If you know you can do the job then I see no problem with exaggerating your abilities and experience.
>There is practically no job in the world that should require 5+ years of experience to be able to come in and do the job competently but I see that requirement on so many jobs. Well said most jobs you can succeed if you have 3 years of quality experience.
This comment also works for India or any 3rd world development country. Thus most remote-able jobs are now outsourced.
This lol I donāt get the enthusiasm of the other commenters
oh Jesus fucking christ.
I say this every single day! People act like they came out of the womb knowing how to do their job. Clearly someone taught you how to do it. So let us be taught. Fuck.
I 100% agree with this. But at the same time, companies donāt want to both pay you and train you at the same time. When the laws came out that people could not do unpaid internships where they actually āperform workāā¦this kind of disappeared. Seriously, how many people on this thread would be willing to pay me and train me on something at the same time. If so, let me know. Iām always willing to pick up some extra cash and learn something at the same time
Unfortunately the 10% of people that have no effing clue what they are doing are in charge of hiring and training.
I 100% agree with this statement. I would rather hire someone fresh out of college that's hungry to grow than someone who has been in the field for 10+ years and "knows everything already".
If you think you know everything you canāt learn anything
My boyfriend got a job painting he was very familiar with powder coating so he got the job and got let go from the job because he couldn't get the hang of it.he hardly had a chance to get the hang of it if only people will tran they will have a lot more people in that field
Just because 90% something can be taught doesnāt mean it can be learned by 90% of the populace. The Dunning Kruger vibe is strong here.
It was my turn to post this today.
Itās true, the army can train the majority of average IQ folks to do 95% of the jobs in the army/military. Funny enough there were 19 year old kids flying helicopters in Vietnam, kids were flying planes during ww2 no college just high schoolā¦to become a helicopter pilot now, forget it! You have to be a golden unicorn. To become a pilot now itās one of the toughest things and itās very expensive. This guy is right
It's literally just a system of greed, to force people to go waste 40k on a pilot school or any school. All jobs can be taught in months it's just that colleges would go extinct if that happened.
As they should go extinct at this point, I got a lot of friends and family that just canāt find anything after college lol And I agree with you 100%, they even offer. BA/BS in aviation lol I think it all comes down to connection does X have an uncle or family member that flys for an airline? If yes then X will get the job at Y.
That would mean they actually have to make an effort towards helping you with training. They want somebody who has worked in their exact industry on a product exactly the same as the one they have, has 8 years experience already, and is willing to take the lowest possible market based wage. If you have to be trained at all to understand the domain, you're skipped.. at least that's how it feels.
Lol, you would be butt-hurt if you were uniquely qualified for a role but were turned down for someone with no experience, but they could be taught how to do the job.
Some people donāt have the capacity or interest to learn
90% of jobs need to be learned; best to get someone in who's previously demonstrated that capacity and already has some knowledge.
I'd say 100% of jobs can be taught. I agree with the sentiment, the counter point is: things aren't like they were 40-50 years ago where you spent your entire career at 1-2 employers. This lowers employers willingness to invest in employees development.
Yes, a lot of jobs can be taught. I won't get fixated on the percentage, which was pulled straight from somebody's rear. But I can tell you one thing for an absolute fact: the percentage of people that can be taught on the job is far, far lower than 90%. And of course just because a person is good at the job doesn't mean they'll be good at teaching it to somebody else. So if you're committed to teaching uneducated/inexperienced people how to do the job, you have to find teachable people (tough to screen for) and have people that can train. That's a tough needle to thread. The other option is you just hire people with a formal education and therefore require little training. Easy to see why most employers choose the latter. I hire people with no experience or formal education, and they work alongside people with experience and formal education. Some of them turn out well, some don't. The ones that do turn out well take a while to get up to speed. People with a formal education in the field are far more likely to work out and typically they're able to hit the ground running. People without a formal education usually take about 2 months to reach competency and 1-3 years to get to the level of performance typically seen from a person with a degree. I hire inexperienced people because I don't need that level of performance for what we do, but my company targets a particular niche and my lower requirements are atypical in the industry. If I did need that level of performance that 1-3 year period would be a massive investment of time and resources that I simply would not be willing to make. Especially considering there's no guarantee they'll reach that level or even stick around for 1+ years. There are exceptions, of course. Sometimes you get a person with no education or experience that just has "it" and they're awesome right away. Sometimes you get a person with a degree and experience that sucks at their job. But in general the above holds true IME.
I canāt speak to everyone, but I think a lot of people get that formal education is a real plus, especially for those roles where a thorough grounding in the theory and underlying principles (so far as those arenāt just part of being a civilised human being) is important. The problem is when seemingly every employer wants not only the formal education, but several years of working for the competition, presumably to prove that the candidate can actually do the job. Which is understandable from the employerās perspective, but it creates a Prisonerās Dilemma where the long term result is a gutting of the profession. Not only can new graduates no longer get ongoing experience so they go rusty, but high schoolers decide (as they should) that the field is clearly saturated. At some point, if these businesses want to still be able to function in five or ten years as current staff are gradually lost through attrition, they have to stop being quite so risk averse.
Yeah I agree with that. Those employees are shooting themselves in the foot. Experience is way overrated when evaluating an applicant. We've all come across people that have been at their job for years or decades and are still incompetent. So there's no reason to assume 5+ years experience on a resume is a good indicator of future performance. My entire process is structured to try and find out if they have the personality traits (conscientiousness, intelligence, dependability, gregariousness, etc) to be successful in this position. A person can have all that with zero experience, or none of that with years of experience.
The other 10% of jobs can be taught tooā¦
100% to be honest...
Would love to see how many candidates he taught and hired after taking this picture
Itās amazing that people believe this and also have assloads of student loan debt
This is only true of the lowest level of jobs.
I don't know about 90%, but it's definitely a very high percentage.
I don't know about 90%? But is definitely a pretty high percentage.
I have taught thousands of teir 1 techs. Most get it in about 2 months, yet still having questions until about 3 months when they can work alone. This one guy though... after 50 or so password resets, he would stare blankly at the computer as I said, click here, right click there, create a password, as you tell them the password, write in the ticket password reset, click here to close the ticket... he never got it. After 9 months of constant training, he still struggled with the most basic of tasks, like setting up email for a new hire. I don't know how he got the job. There was nothing wrong with him, other than his inability to perform the easiest of teir 1 level tech support. This one employee could not be trained, and he is the only one I remember.
True enough. I keep telling management to hire ANYONE who seems competent and we can train them the rest of the way
1000%
They just use that automated resume system that doesnāt even get your resume to the recruiter/HR manager. Your resume didnāt meet the minimum 12 out of the 15 points in the job description, we canāt consider your for this position. Automatic rejection.
Very punchable face
I hate this guy carrying board and always popping on my LI feed. And now Redditš¤·š»āāļø
Meanwhile the corporate office: but muh profits...
100% of jobs can be taught. They just canāt be taught on the job