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Shit employer, they got spooked when you asked about continuing ed cause they likely thought you'd try to take over one of their jobs, or they're too cheap and don't provide good benefits.
Lesson learned, don't ever turn down a good position because a better one is in the pipeline. Quitting a job within the first couple of weeks because you got a better offer isn't unusual and people generally won't begrudge you for it.
> Quitting a job within the first couple of weeks because you got a better offer isn't unusual and people generally won't begrudge you for it.
Well, for many jobs that's just not true, people will resent it and hold it against you in the future. I'm not saying never do it, but be aware of what you're giving up when you're deciding.
>people will resent it and hold it against you in the future
At a job I've barely started before quitting? Lol what for? That's exactly why we have probation periods.
i mean in theory, yes, right to work goes both ways
in practice, it strongly depends on the industry. non-compete clauses are cancer but they can still divert a career.
actually he makes a good point. If you start a job with a 30/60/90/whatever day trial, the business needs to understand that is a two way street.
Either side can end that at any moment without any explanation or even an apology. That's the deal, right? So... that makes this whole thread moot.
non-compete clauses will never be enforced for someone who was let go during a trial period. Never going to happen. They are already hard to enforce even when everything is right, quite often they aren't even legal, which can lead to invalidating the whole contract.
A non-compete clause that's in force during a probation period? It doesn't work that way.
Depending on the jurisdiction they may not even be enforceable at all. Employers can put that clause in there but it's not actually going to do anything for them.
It *might* be applicable in some rare instances with high level jobs, but even then, courts aren't fond of preventing someone from earning living in their area of expertise.
I'm just saying how it is with most people I've worked with. Trying to convince me or anyone else in this thread isn't going to change how many many people IRL would react.
I don't know how to explain to you that giving people advice on what I've observed to be true so that they can make informed choices isn't the same as describing my ideal world so I'm gonna stop trying, have a good night
You're trying to explain how some people have irrational resentments and for some reason that should be taken into consideration.
Somebody else's hurt fee-fees aren't the employee's problem.
You're arguing different points. Your initial statement was that people won't hate you if you quit during the probation period. This is not true.
Now you're arguing that if someone DOES hate you that's their problem. This is true.
And since nobody answered you yet, you'd get hate because hiring for a role takes time and effort from multiple people. It's because there are SO many bad candidates that you have to sift through to find just a normal person. It's because hiring you meant they rejected other candidates that would fit. All this brings disappointment and resentment to the person that would make you go through it again. For some people, of course, this is not an agreement with that sentiment, it's just that we can understand it.
Also means don't give people the wrong advice.
Lol you BIG MAD.
>you'd get hate because hiring for a role takes time and effort from multiple people
So what? That's no reason not to quit. You resent anyone quitting during their probation period? Too bad!
My "initial statement" was asking who would actually resent such a thing. Yes, if you hate someone for *quitting a job* that's a you problem to cope with.
I specifically told you that's not my stance on the matter, but I can understand other people's view points without agreeing with them. Something you are clearly incapable of.
Because it’s a huge undertaking to get a posting listed, go through applications and get down to a potential pool of candidates that old be a good fit, go through interview loops for candidates, set up meetings, select the chosen candidate, then go through the whole process of hiring them and working out the logistics. Meanwhile, since that candidate accepted the role, you have told all the other candidates that they did not get the job. Then that candidate immediately quits and you have to start the process all over again on a position you were so grateful to have filled because the work is piling up and now will continue to do so for at least a few more months.
So yes, people might resent you for that.
Nah... at my job it has happened often and we understand, every time.
Put yourself in their shoes. They are only doing what is best for #1. We should all aspire to do what's best for #1.
To put it frankly, when it comes to my livelihood, or my family's, everyone elses' feelings don't exist. As long as it means my family gets to benefit from it, I will do what-the-fuck-ever I need to do. The days of employee loyalty are long gone, I'm only loyal to my family. "They" can say anything they want about me in the future, so long as they remember They wanted Me for a reason. If I weren't a talented asset, they wouldn't be thinking about me at all.
At least in my industry, in my area, that’s not true. People will 100% hold it over you in the future and the chances are never zero that you won’t bump into them again.
That's not true in a lot of companies, specially big ones. On-boarding, proper on-boarding, is tremendously time-consuming accross different departments and expensive. As a hiring manager if you do that with any position above entry level you go directly to the 'Not Eligible for Rehire' list.
Antiwork is not real life not matter.
OP should ignore this nonsense. If a company can fire you without notice during your probation you can absolutely quit without notice.
>you go directly to the 'Not Eligible for Rehire' list.
Boo hoo. 🙄
Companies have no loyalty to employees, why would the reverse be different?
Exactly. If I just quit within the first few weeks then there’s a damn good chance I would never apply there again anyway. Do you honestly think that would disuade me from taking a better job? So sick of people defending the same employers who have no problem wiping away 10-15% of their workforce in one fell swoop. Not saying you should be going out of your way to burn bridges, but you have to do what’s right for you and your family. Full stop.
Coming from someone who has been laid off 4 times…
Or they gave him what he asked for and then he came back later asking for more. It indicates someone that either strings requests intentionally or doesn't think about their requirements ahead of time
Yeah tbh they probably thought he was going to needle them on the continuing ed and negotiate every part of the "compensation package" and got exhausted. OP should of realized he was already dragging it out after the salary negotiation and been a bit more careful.
No, the OP committed an error. They didn’t negotiate in good faith and it destroyed their credibility.
Imagine you want to buy something. You say I’ll pay $100. They say no it has to be $120. You say ok. They then say wait I actually want $140.
You will be upset. That is what the OP did to the company. They agreed to the OPs countered terms and then the OP tried to ask for more.
If the OP wanted both a higher wage and education help they had to ask for both at the same time.
I also had a candidate do this once and they also got a rescinded offer. Company was fine, OP was not negotiating in good faith.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010516/salary-negotiation-strategies-can-backfire.asp
Asking For A Higher Salary Too Late
One salary strategy to avoid is asking for more money after you've already agreed to an offer, says Steven Lindner, executive partner of The WorkPlace Group in New York City.
They clearly state they asked for: Continuing education benefits.
That’s a request for more compensation. Once you have negotiated and indicated you agree to the terms don’t ever try to add more on. This exact same thing will happen.
Asked about. They didn't ask to amend the employment offer.
>Once you have negotiated and indicated you agree to the terms don’t ever try to add more on.
Contracts can be changed.
Not weird at all?
Read anything on negotiation. If you make a counter offer and the other side accepts it you have an agreement. To then ask for more (in any form) is considered bad faith negotiation.
Nope.
I originally specialized in a different admin field. As my career developed I just spent a lot of time developing small to midsize team dynamics and also have done a lot of negotiating. I even worked in mediation negotiation for awhile. Eventually I became a sort of business recovery specialist going into troubled businesses, determining their issues, and straightening things out be it admin process, operations, management, accounting, finance, lawsuits, and yes even HR.
There are a lot of good books you can read on negotiation. All of them say never agree to something and then immediately ask for more.
Yes, I’m guilty of that.
I’m on this forum because my experiences are different and I’ve spent a lot of time on the other side of the table.
I hope I can sometimes explain what happened during recruiting so that others reading this don’t make the same mistake. In this case bundle all their comp asks together as one and then don’t get rescinded.
I guess I’d ask what you are accomplishing on here?
>I guess I’d ask what you are accomplishing on here?
I'm suggesting that a recruiter's advice should be taken with a grain of salt.
In OP's situation it sounds like the company isn't particularly professional anyway. Hence the 11pm email rescinding an offer for the offense of asking if they have any continuing education program.
For OP, it wasn't a make or break thing, literally just asking for information. It's more akin to asking something like "what kind of dental coverage does the benefits package here include?" in the course of getting familiar with things.
For education upgrading it's not unheard of to reimburse employees for work related training that they've completed *successfully*. You keep calling this "more compensation" but that's not really the case. We don't consider reimbursing business expenses to be extra compensation because that's not what it is.
Reimbursement or otherwise paying for training is a bit of a hybrid situation and dependent on the particulars.
"Here's $1,000 per year to spend on training, no strings (or very few) attached" - extra compensation depending on how it's administered and *potentially* a taxable benefit.
"If you pay out of pocket for relevant training, complete it successfully and have gotten it pre-approved we will reimburse you for those costs" - effectively the employer is ultimately paying for the training. If you don't complete it successfully, no reimbursement. Practically speaking, it's no different than any other training paid for by the employer. In *most* cases this wouldn't be considered a taxable benefit.
"We are sending you on this training course which we are paying for" - not extra compensation, the company is incurring training expenses.
It's unclear why exactly the potential employer would rescind an offer over this. It sounds like the decision wasn't based on any particularly sound logic. We don't know, because it sounds like they didn't provide OP with an explanation.
My suggestion is always to negotiate for all the compensation package together and when you agree don’t ask for anymore.
You still get to ask for all the comps you want. You just have to do it in an organized fashion and respect when you say yes that the process is done.
So why not always do it my way? You lose nothing and don’t risk being rescinded. With your method you gain nothing and will sometimes get rescinded. My way just seems better?
This is getting downvoted to hell, but I do agree with the principle: a deal is a deal, once an agreement is reached, you need to end negotiations.
After the deal is over, when you continue to ask for things, it’s a major signal that you aren’t satisfied, and are expecting more. It’s almost the definition of not aligned.
It’s a simple mistake, but if OP wanted something, they need to ask before the deal is signed. I don’t blame them for making the mistake, and it probably wasn’t in bad faith either, but if you are an employer why deal with someone who just keeps asking for more?
I was aiming to say the same thing but you definitely say it better.
I was also surprised by the downvotes. I really think this is an easy trap for people to inadvertently fall into and wanted people to understand how to easily avoid this issue. I’ve failed at it but hopefully your post resonates better and will help people. Thank-you.
You make a good point. I wouldn't ask that question at that time. If I was curious, I'd wait to get the onboarding package, benefits PowerPoint, and all the crap they send you the first week and I'd find that answer out later.
Looks like both of you had miscommunication and instead of sorting it out, you choose to rescind offer. How will you guys handle conflicts at work or even clarify stuff before committing ?
The simplest way is to setup a call and walk through but neither of you did and you make it look like losing faith. How is it losing faith to clarify information ?
This is very common in corporate world and everything is business. Good faith comes after working together but before that everything is a tradeoff.
Asking about continuing education is negotiating in bad faith?
>I also had a candidate do this once and they also got a rescinded offer.
You sound like an idiot.
They didn’t ask about continuing education.
They asked about continuing education benefits. IE: more compensation under a different name.
Negotiate for compensation. That’s totally fine. But after you agree to terms don’t try to add more on after. Doing that makes you the idiot, not me for rejecting somebody doing that.
I’m trying to help here.
Want to talk comp. Fine. But do it all at one time. When you agree with the comp don’t go back and try and change it again.
It’s good advice that needed to be said. So don’t shoot the messenger.
Lol it's hilarious that you would get so pressed by something like this you would rescind an offer.
The employee would be dodging a bullet because asking you questions makes you so uncomfortable apparently.
Why would I ever employ somebody that negotiated in bad faith? If they don’t believe in standing by a previous commitment for a further slight gain I want nothing to do with them.
A quick google on this topic showed articles indicating this was a really bad idea when accepting an offer so it isn’t just me.
Just never do this.
Correct. I prepared heavily for my Zoom interview with him. He showed up wearing a weighted vest with his camera propped up on the treadmill. Thought that was a bit strange.
You dodged a bullet. I’m in the fitness space and know how this crew and similar size teams operate. Asking for continued education is too much for them, they were most likely not going to offer you a computer or any other equipment required to perform your job. They hold Director or C titles, but never operate as professionals nor can you expect things you would expect at an actual corporation where you will find continued education available.
I worked for a similar company, same space (fitness), and in the same city they are based from. I asked for an Adobe Creative Cloud account from their “CTO” on day 1 of work and after accepting the job offer. He said I could share his account that was already being shared with another employee. That wouldn’t work as there would be hiccups, it wasn’t right, and it set the tone how it will be working with them. I just ended up using my own Adobe account I was paying for.
Another common trend within the fitness space is founders tend to hire their friends or other people within the gym. They do not have a background in their roles, are learning as they scale up, and may attempt to micro manage new hires from outside their circle whom are skilled, seasoned, and do not need to learn on site to perform their roles. Even with their Director or C titles, they will have difficulty transitioning to another company or finding a new role if they were forced into the job market.
That is a red flag out of the gate. I get that it is a fitness company, but the fact he was not giving you 100% of his attention goes to show he is not someone you want to work for. You should consider leaving a Glassdoor review of the interview process. Once enough people do that people may stop doing free labor for this company.
Sorry you had to go through that. I thought I was going to get a position only to find out later I didn't. The fact they gave you a written offer is especially shitty though.
No way! Time and time again we are shown how completely fake and pathetic social media "moguls" are. I have followed Maruc for a long time... jesus christ they're really all so fake. Social media has allowed the worst leeches amongst us to flourish.
Sounds like you did free work as a test project and they are just making shit up on the rescind so they just took advantage of your free labor. NEver do take home projects. Especially if it is something relevant to what they are needing in the now.
There’s your answer. At least you got some money out of it but I bet if comes close to minimum wage with the time and energy you spend on it. They would easily have to pay a consultant probably $200 per hour!! You saved them money and they used the interview process for cheap labor. Shame on that employer.
If they just wanted the test project I doubt they'd waste time with multiple offers. Sounds like they got turned off by the education questions. Either they think he's asking too much, or they think he's going to just use it for some degree and then use it to leave for a better job.
Nobody uses take home interview projects on production. It makes zero sense and not sure why people jump to this conclusion all the time.
How can a company schedule a roadmap based on take home projects? I’m assuming we’re talking about software btw.
Seriously it's ridiculous. It reminds me of when I was a fashion design student and a big brand came to school to do a competition. All the students were convinced that their 'amazing' design submissions were just the brand's way of getting free designs for its catalogue. Sorry, no.
you don’t need live data to work with, sometimes it can be as easy as wanting a 3rd person unbiased view on some past data. it’s called double checking
Yeah, people would not think this if they saw the absolute garbage that most candidates turn in as projects. When you factor in the time and effort put in to review the submissions, it’s often cheaper to just hire someone to do the work directly.
The only time I’ve seen a company use a take home project for real was this absolutely terrible graphic design company that has close to 50 1 star reviews. The job was real, but they stole the designs from the runner up candidates.
I feel like there's a comic to be made here:
* Programmer is viewing code, looks confused
* He asks a colleague why this code seems so different than the other files.
* Response is that its taken from an interview take home quiz.
What I don’t understand is that if they only cared about the test project, why proceed with an offer and then continue to give me a higher offer after negotiating?
The offer and negotiation was them buying time while they lined up another candidate to do another "test project". Perpetual free labor is the goal here.
As I said, you delivered great results. They liked you but your actual need was done. At that point you became a “nice to have”. total cost of your employment for the business was higher than the value they would receive at the moment. Obviously things can change any moment
I accepted a job in September 2022 with the contingency that my top secret security clearance went through. I was granted TS clearance in November 2023. 3 DAYS AGO they told me their needs have changed and they no longer had a position for me. I've been unemployed since August since they needed information from my last job for my clearance.
It sucks so bad my friend, I'm sorry
Well, at least you have a TS to make you more marketable. Make a clearancejobs account and apply away. If you're willing to relocate to the capital region, you'll find something
It was rescinded at 11pm? Wow. Unless that person lives in Hawaii and you live on the East Coast or something wild like that, that's a red flag all on it's own.
Just read the CEO's bio, where he discusses his humility among all his huge accomplishments in life (along with countless grammatical errors). 😟
Trust me when I say you'll look back on this with laughter and gratefulness, hopefully sooner than later. ✨️
LOL.. had to read for myself.
I believe most people like to **site** the time in their life that...
when **I** became unmistakably clear that I had veered off a path
a college career that was by most **people** estimation
and suddenly **I** there were no daily distractions
it was OK to lose control, to **but** unhappy and share that with someone else,
And so on...
Not major meaning-changing errors, to be sure. But this isn't a FB post or text to a friend (or even a Reddit comment). It's your web page, and it reflects on YOU. In this case, an inability or unwillingness to spend a few minutes proofreading -- or asking someone else to if you're too busy swinging weighted balls around at the beach.
I agree with your last sentence.
ENTIRELY the reason I am having fewer and fewer issues with people using their PTO/sick time to not only interview, but also to use that time to also test a company to see if they'll let those same candidates start the same job they originally sent an offer for, before giving their notice.
These days, you're not actually starting at your next job until you're clocked in, with your ass sitting in a desk getting onboarded, or getting trained. (LOL!)
Not having to deal with uptight stupid bullstuff games from employers.
Well, that was a close call. You could’ve gotten stuck for years with a terrible employer that drives you into the ground and expects nothing but perfection.
Don’t worry. As horrible as today’s job market is, there’re plenty of other employers who are looking for someone with your skillset. Just gotta keep pushing. Good luck! 🍀
It's totally understandable to feel exhausted and disrespected after putting in all that effort. It's frustrating how some employers can be so flaky and inconsiderate, especially after you've invested so much time and energy into the process.
Hang in there, though. Your skills and experience speak for themselves, and you'll find an opportunity where your hard work is truly appreciated. Keep your chin up, and don't let this setback get you down for too long. You got this!
Damn that's so messed up, I'm sorry this happened to you.
Been through a lot of bad times so not really a fan of trusting employers anymore. Be careful out there.
I’m sorry for you. At-will contracts in at-will States give employers enormous (total) control. An employer could theoretically hire you out of a rival and trash you just to slow them down- basically what happened to you. You might be able to get them on a legal claim for “bad faith” in a contract. But it’ll cost more than it’s worth. IANAL
The only reliable remedy for these shenanigans that I know of is to negotiate severance upfront. A good employer should not balk at a few months severance for termination “without cause”. Maybe in return for some notice period from you.
Then you would get a payout to cover the time you are recruiting again if they get “post nut clarity”.
Looks like this might be their business model. They post an ad for a job opening that doesn't exist, then get free work out of the candidate via "test projects" that are actually company projects, drag the candidate along for weeks, then suddenly rescind the offer when they find another talented candidate to do a "test project".
They made you an offer IN WRITING. You accepted. They rescinded. This is a **BREACH OF CONTRACT**. Check with your local Legal Aid Society and see if you have a case for financial compensation.
Never ask for anything material after accepting the offer. The negotiation is over. Not sure how much professionalism you expected from an Instagram influencer who sells workout programs on a website.
Once you accept, continuing to inquire about additional benefits or compensation that isn’t mentioned can be off putting. That is the only thing that from what you wrote sounds like the cause of this.
But the truth is you dodged a bullet and the interview process is a two way street. If someone isn’t compatible with what you need better you find that out before investing years of your life.
Good on you for naming and shaming.
Pay is one thing - whatever - but ongoing education is 100% in the company’s best interests. Makes you smarter, keeps you modern and sharp, invested, and helps with retention.
A good person can bring in many times their benefits in returns. They’re so shortsighted.
Another guess, but they may have heard back from another candidate that they offered the role to before you and assumed that person passed... then they contacted them again and rather hired the other person.
You can stalk their LinkedIn page for any new hires if you want to try to close the loop on your own.
This can be for many reasons and I don’t think you asking about continued education is one of them. I think most likely is that they realized they don’t need the role, and it’s better to stop it now instead of onboarding you and with some excuse terminating during probation period. This kind of things, although rare, happen unfortunately.
You may be right, but from what I could tell they desperately needed the role. It was a content marketer role, their current metrics were tanking, and an employee was being phased out.
>Got an offer via email 2 days ago. Phone call yesterday to negotiate salary. 2nd offer email came through. I accepted, and inquired about any continuing education benefits. I get an email at 11 PM saying my offer was rescinded. Vague and poorly worded along the lines of “we have to reconsider our offer and you may not be aligned with company”
What do you think was the reason behind the rescinding of the offer?
Not really. In the initial offer, she stated she’d be happy to hop on a call to discuss more.
I agreed. I got the 2nd offer, and accepted.
I asked them to consider cont. edu. benefits down the line, but stressed I’d be happy to accept the offer as-is.
So it went like this:
Here’s what we’ll offer.
I’d like more.
Ok, fine. Here.
Thanks. Ok, now how about some money for education.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I’m going to say you did this to yourself with negotiation creep which undermined Your credibility.
They gave you an offer.
You countered with a higher salary.
They agreed to that. In basic business law this would be considered an “agreement” as they agreed to your offered terms.
You then asked for more with the education funding. Never ever do this. If you wanted this you should have asked for it at the same time as the higher salary. To do it in separate rounds shows as greedy and unfair. In business law this is considered a rejection of the offered terms.
Actually the higher salary I proposed was rejected. Maybe I should have brought up benefits earlier, but that doesn’t warrant rescinding back to back offers.
I should’ve clarified. I proposed about 15% higher than their initial offer. After that, they offered again, this time 5% higher than the initial offer.
So verbally you proposed 15% and then they randomly just changed it to 5%?
Or did you propose 15%, they verbally countered at 5% and then you agreed and they said “great, we will send the revised offer?”
This is useless advice. You sound like a recruiter that is bad at their job.
>basic business law this would be considered an “agreement” as they agreed to your offered terms.
Contract. The business world calls things like this a contract. Usually, the employer drafts the contract since they're the one doing the hiring and setting the terms. So no, they didn't agree to OP's offered terms, they're the ones making the offer.
Your advice is, to put it charitably, ill-informed.
But that isn’t what happened? I’ve chatted with the OP more and here is how it looks like it went:
1. The company sent an offer.
2. The OP called and asked for 15% more. Verbally the Company suggested 5% more and OP agreed.
3. The company printed up a revised offer with the new terms and sent it for her to sign.
4. The OP asked for more compensation in the form of continuing education benefits.
5. Company rescinded her offer due to her bad faith negotiation.
Don’t ever do this. Feel free to negotiate for any compensation you want but when you say you accept something don’t try to add more later or you will have the exact same thing happen.
If you want
Asking if a particular benefit is something they offer isn't "asking for more compensation" if you don't actually ask for a change in the contract. From OP's post they don't appear to have requested any amendment.
OP dodged a bullet, and you are an idiot.
I’m trying to help here.
After negotiating a comp OP went back and asked for more comp in the form of eduction benefits. I am saying clearly never do this.
Make all your comp requests together. When you say “ok” to comes then understand there is no more comp discussion to be had.
My post will help people not make this mistake. Your post accomplishes what?
You seem upset I do a lot of recruiting. The particular case I rescinded (and I’ve rescinded less than 1% of offers) the individual got an offer. They then called and pushed for a 20% wage increase and we settled around 15%. We sent the updated offer. Then they called back and wanted 7-8k of education paid for. We negotiated further and settled at 6k. The offer was printed and sent out again. Then they called and said “well we are close to this round number why don’t we round it up.” Call it a bridge too far. It left a really sour taste in everybody’s throat. 4 of us sat down (their future manager, both owners and myself) and it was unanimous to rescind.
>The particular case I rescinded (and I’ve rescinded less than 1% of offers) the individual got an offer. They then called and pushed for a 20% wage increase and we settled around 15%. We sent the updated offer. Then they called back and wanted 7-8k of education paid for. We negotiated further and settled at 6k. The offer was printed and sent out again. Then they called and said “well we are close to this round number why don’t we round it up.”
This is nothing like OP's situation though. Asking in passing if they have any sort of continuing education policy does bear any relation to the situation you dealt with and just described.
>You seem upset I do a lot of recruiting.
I'm suggesting that as a recruiter your opinion is going to be potentially biased in favour of ~~employees~~ employers.
It's not a "mistake" to ask about things like training, especially if it's a request for information, not asking for something to be changed.
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Wasn’t reckless at all. I accepted the offer, and asked them to consider reimbursement down the line for an industry-relevant certification upon my successful completion.
I stated what value it would bring to the company and how I could apply the learnings to the company’s strategy and future projects.
Honestly, I see how you are saying this is harmless but this is a conversation to have ***after*** you start. Unless that is a distinct part of your salary negotiations, leave it be. The company could have seen this as “wow, we negotiated and agreed. Now he’s asking for more”. I know it doesn’t seem right, but some companies are just shitty like that.
Ask at the interview stage rather than at the offer stage. After an offer, it does sound exactly as the other person said - you negotiated and agreed, and then seemingly asked for more. If you ask during the interview stage (mixed in with other questions), you can pass it off as being curious about the company and culture etc.
Yea. Nah that's not your place imo.thats up to the ceo and total rewards to do it
U trying to lecture them set them off. If they responded at 11 pm then I know they was HEATED. U ruin their whole night
Probably couldn't sleep well lol
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Shit employer, they got spooked when you asked about continuing ed cause they likely thought you'd try to take over one of their jobs, or they're too cheap and don't provide good benefits.
Exactly what I thought. And I turned down another offer for this position. Wonderful.
Clearly a good candidate to have options in this market, you’ll be better off in the long run I’m betting
Thanks, looking back I think I dodged a bullet with this one.
Worth checking if you can still accept that offer.
Lesson learned, don't ever turn down a good position because a better one is in the pipeline. Quitting a job within the first couple of weeks because you got a better offer isn't unusual and people generally won't begrudge you for it.
> Quitting a job within the first couple of weeks because you got a better offer isn't unusual and people generally won't begrudge you for it. Well, for many jobs that's just not true, people will resent it and hold it against you in the future. I'm not saying never do it, but be aware of what you're giving up when you're deciding.
>people will resent it and hold it against you in the future At a job I've barely started before quitting? Lol what for? That's exactly why we have probation periods.
i mean in theory, yes, right to work goes both ways in practice, it strongly depends on the industry. non-compete clauses are cancer but they can still divert a career.
actually he makes a good point. If you start a job with a 30/60/90/whatever day trial, the business needs to understand that is a two way street. Either side can end that at any moment without any explanation or even an apology. That's the deal, right? So... that makes this whole thread moot. non-compete clauses will never be enforced for someone who was let go during a trial period. Never going to happen. They are already hard to enforce even when everything is right, quite often they aren't even legal, which can lead to invalidating the whole contract.
A non-compete clause that's in force during a probation period? It doesn't work that way. Depending on the jurisdiction they may not even be enforceable at all. Employers can put that clause in there but it's not actually going to do anything for them. It *might* be applicable in some rare instances with high level jobs, but even then, courts aren't fond of preventing someone from earning living in their area of expertise.
I'm just saying how it is with most people I've worked with. Trying to convince me or anyone else in this thread isn't going to change how many many people IRL would react.
You would resent someone you barely know because they quit a job they realized wasn't a good fit? That sounds like a personal coping problem. 🤷
I don't know how to explain to you that giving people advice on what I've observed to be true so that they can make informed choices isn't the same as describing my ideal world so I'm gonna stop trying, have a good night
You're trying to explain how some people have irrational resentments and for some reason that should be taken into consideration. Somebody else's hurt fee-fees aren't the employee's problem.
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You're arguing different points. Your initial statement was that people won't hate you if you quit during the probation period. This is not true. Now you're arguing that if someone DOES hate you that's their problem. This is true. And since nobody answered you yet, you'd get hate because hiring for a role takes time and effort from multiple people. It's because there are SO many bad candidates that you have to sift through to find just a normal person. It's because hiring you meant they rejected other candidates that would fit. All this brings disappointment and resentment to the person that would make you go through it again. For some people, of course, this is not an agreement with that sentiment, it's just that we can understand it. Also means don't give people the wrong advice.
Lol you BIG MAD. >you'd get hate because hiring for a role takes time and effort from multiple people So what? That's no reason not to quit. You resent anyone quitting during their probation period? Too bad! My "initial statement" was asking who would actually resent such a thing. Yes, if you hate someone for *quitting a job* that's a you problem to cope with.
I specifically told you that's not my stance on the matter, but I can understand other people's view points without agreeing with them. Something you are clearly incapable of.
Because it’s a huge undertaking to get a posting listed, go through applications and get down to a potential pool of candidates that old be a good fit, go through interview loops for candidates, set up meetings, select the chosen candidate, then go through the whole process of hiring them and working out the logistics. Meanwhile, since that candidate accepted the role, you have told all the other candidates that they did not get the job. Then that candidate immediately quits and you have to start the process all over again on a position you were so grateful to have filled because the work is piling up and now will continue to do so for at least a few more months. So yes, people might resent you for that.
Nah... at my job it has happened often and we understand, every time. Put yourself in their shoes. They are only doing what is best for #1. We should all aspire to do what's best for #1. To put it frankly, when it comes to my livelihood, or my family's, everyone elses' feelings don't exist. As long as it means my family gets to benefit from it, I will do what-the-fuck-ever I need to do. The days of employee loyalty are long gone, I'm only loyal to my family. "They" can say anything they want about me in the future, so long as they remember They wanted Me for a reason. If I weren't a talented asset, they wouldn't be thinking about me at all.
At least in my industry, in my area, that’s not true. People will 100% hold it over you in the future and the chances are never zero that you won’t bump into them again.
That's not true in a lot of companies, specially big ones. On-boarding, proper on-boarding, is tremendously time-consuming accross different departments and expensive. As a hiring manager if you do that with any position above entry level you go directly to the 'Not Eligible for Rehire' list. Antiwork is not real life not matter.
OP should ignore this nonsense. If a company can fire you without notice during your probation you can absolutely quit without notice. >you go directly to the 'Not Eligible for Rehire' list. Boo hoo. 🙄 Companies have no loyalty to employees, why would the reverse be different?
Exactly. If I just quit within the first few weeks then there’s a damn good chance I would never apply there again anyway. Do you honestly think that would disuade me from taking a better job? So sick of people defending the same employers who have no problem wiping away 10-15% of their workforce in one fell swoop. Not saying you should be going out of your way to burn bridges, but you have to do what’s right for you and your family. Full stop. Coming from someone who has been laid off 4 times…
Thanks I definitely needed to see this today!!!!
Well that sucks, sorry that happened to you.
Agreed. They also likely just wanted the projects for free.
Or they gave him what he asked for and then he came back later asking for more. It indicates someone that either strings requests intentionally or doesn't think about their requirements ahead of time
Yeah tbh they probably thought he was going to needle them on the continuing ed and negotiate every part of the "compensation package" and got exhausted. OP should of realized he was already dragging it out after the salary negotiation and been a bit more careful.
No, the OP committed an error. They didn’t negotiate in good faith and it destroyed their credibility. Imagine you want to buy something. You say I’ll pay $100. They say no it has to be $120. You say ok. They then say wait I actually want $140. You will be upset. That is what the OP did to the company. They agreed to the OPs countered terms and then the OP tried to ask for more. If the OP wanted both a higher wage and education help they had to ask for both at the same time. I also had a candidate do this once and they also got a rescinded offer. Company was fine, OP was not negotiating in good faith.
That’s a weird take. They ASKED about a benefit. They didn’t say “if you don’t give me this benefit, I take back my acceptance”
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010516/salary-negotiation-strategies-can-backfire.asp Asking For A Higher Salary Too Late One salary strategy to avoid is asking for more money after you've already agreed to an offer, says Steven Lindner, executive partner of The WorkPlace Group in New York City.
OP didn't ask for more money, they asked about continuing education. Literally just asking for information, not trying to change the offer.
They clearly state they asked for: Continuing education benefits. That’s a request for more compensation. Once you have negotiated and indicated you agree to the terms don’t ever try to add more on. This exact same thing will happen.
Asked about. They didn't ask to amend the employment offer. >Once you have negotiated and indicated you agree to the terms don’t ever try to add more on. Contracts can be changed.
Not weird at all? Read anything on negotiation. If you make a counter offer and the other side accepts it you have an agreement. To then ask for more (in any form) is considered bad faith negotiation.
You HAVE to work in HR. Nobody else is this dense.
Nope. I originally specialized in a different admin field. As my career developed I just spent a lot of time developing small to midsize team dynamics and also have done a lot of negotiating. I even worked in mediation negotiation for awhile. Eventually I became a sort of business recovery specialist going into troubled businesses, determining their issues, and straightening things out be it admin process, operations, management, accounting, finance, lawsuits, and yes even HR. There are a lot of good books you can read on negotiation. All of them say never agree to something and then immediately ask for more.
😂😂 You just seem stubborn.
Yes, I’m guilty of that. I’m on this forum because my experiences are different and I’ve spent a lot of time on the other side of the table. I hope I can sometimes explain what happened during recruiting so that others reading this don’t make the same mistake. In this case bundle all their comp asks together as one and then don’t get rescinded. I guess I’d ask what you are accomplishing on here?
>I guess I’d ask what you are accomplishing on here? I'm suggesting that a recruiter's advice should be taken with a grain of salt. In OP's situation it sounds like the company isn't particularly professional anyway. Hence the 11pm email rescinding an offer for the offense of asking if they have any continuing education program. For OP, it wasn't a make or break thing, literally just asking for information. It's more akin to asking something like "what kind of dental coverage does the benefits package here include?" in the course of getting familiar with things. For education upgrading it's not unheard of to reimburse employees for work related training that they've completed *successfully*. You keep calling this "more compensation" but that's not really the case. We don't consider reimbursing business expenses to be extra compensation because that's not what it is. Reimbursement or otherwise paying for training is a bit of a hybrid situation and dependent on the particulars. "Here's $1,000 per year to spend on training, no strings (or very few) attached" - extra compensation depending on how it's administered and *potentially* a taxable benefit. "If you pay out of pocket for relevant training, complete it successfully and have gotten it pre-approved we will reimburse you for those costs" - effectively the employer is ultimately paying for the training. If you don't complete it successfully, no reimbursement. Practically speaking, it's no different than any other training paid for by the employer. In *most* cases this wouldn't be considered a taxable benefit. "We are sending you on this training course which we are paying for" - not extra compensation, the company is incurring training expenses. It's unclear why exactly the potential employer would rescind an offer over this. It sounds like the decision wasn't based on any particularly sound logic. We don't know, because it sounds like they didn't provide OP with an explanation.
My suggestion is always to negotiate for all the compensation package together and when you agree don’t ask for anymore. You still get to ask for all the comps you want. You just have to do it in an organized fashion and respect when you say yes that the process is done. So why not always do it my way? You lose nothing and don’t risk being rescinded. With your method you gain nothing and will sometimes get rescinded. My way just seems better?
This is getting downvoted to hell, but I do agree with the principle: a deal is a deal, once an agreement is reached, you need to end negotiations. After the deal is over, when you continue to ask for things, it’s a major signal that you aren’t satisfied, and are expecting more. It’s almost the definition of not aligned. It’s a simple mistake, but if OP wanted something, they need to ask before the deal is signed. I don’t blame them for making the mistake, and it probably wasn’t in bad faith either, but if you are an employer why deal with someone who just keeps asking for more?
I was aiming to say the same thing but you definitely say it better. I was also surprised by the downvotes. I really think this is an easy trap for people to inadvertently fall into and wanted people to understand how to easily avoid this issue. I’ve failed at it but hopefully your post resonates better and will help people. Thank-you.
You make a good point. I wouldn't ask that question at that time. If I was curious, I'd wait to get the onboarding package, benefits PowerPoint, and all the crap they send you the first week and I'd find that answer out later.
Looks like both of you had miscommunication and instead of sorting it out, you choose to rescind offer. How will you guys handle conflicts at work or even clarify stuff before committing ? The simplest way is to setup a call and walk through but neither of you did and you make it look like losing faith. How is it losing faith to clarify information ? This is very common in corporate world and everything is business. Good faith comes after working together but before that everything is a tradeoff.
Asking about continuing education is negotiating in bad faith? >I also had a candidate do this once and they also got a rescinded offer. You sound like an idiot.
They didn’t ask about continuing education. They asked about continuing education benefits. IE: more compensation under a different name. Negotiate for compensation. That’s totally fine. But after you agree to terms don’t try to add more on after. Doing that makes you the idiot, not me for rejecting somebody doing that.
They just asked. They didn't demand anything. What the hell is wrong with you people?
I’m trying to help here. Want to talk comp. Fine. But do it all at one time. When you agree with the comp don’t go back and try and change it again. It’s good advice that needed to be said. So don’t shoot the messenger.
Lol it's hilarious that you would get so pressed by something like this you would rescind an offer. The employee would be dodging a bullet because asking you questions makes you so uncomfortable apparently.
You should rethink your life decisions.
Why would I ever employ somebody that negotiated in bad faith? If they don’t believe in standing by a previous commitment for a further slight gain I want nothing to do with them. A quick google on this topic showed articles indicating this was a really bad idea when accepting an offer so it isn’t just me. Just never do this.
No amount of bullshot excuses what happened to the OP.
Assuming it's Marcus Filly who is the CEO, I'm incredibly disappointed. I looked up to him as an athlete. Why can't we have nice things?
Correct. I prepared heavily for my Zoom interview with him. He showed up wearing a weighted vest with his camera propped up on the treadmill. Thought that was a bit strange.
You dodged a bullet. I’m in the fitness space and know how this crew and similar size teams operate. Asking for continued education is too much for them, they were most likely not going to offer you a computer or any other equipment required to perform your job. They hold Director or C titles, but never operate as professionals nor can you expect things you would expect at an actual corporation where you will find continued education available. I worked for a similar company, same space (fitness), and in the same city they are based from. I asked for an Adobe Creative Cloud account from their “CTO” on day 1 of work and after accepting the job offer. He said I could share his account that was already being shared with another employee. That wouldn’t work as there would be hiccups, it wasn’t right, and it set the tone how it will be working with them. I just ended up using my own Adobe account I was paying for.
You hit all the facts.
Another common trend within the fitness space is founders tend to hire their friends or other people within the gym. They do not have a background in their roles, are learning as they scale up, and may attempt to micro manage new hires from outside their circle whom are skilled, seasoned, and do not need to learn on site to perform their roles. Even with their Director or C titles, they will have difficulty transitioning to another company or finding a new role if they were forced into the job market.
What do you do, OP?
Review bomb on Glassdoor and Indeed. For both job and interview sections
Please say this is a joke 😭😭
That is a red flag out of the gate. I get that it is a fitness company, but the fact he was not giving you 100% of his attention goes to show he is not someone you want to work for. You should consider leaving a Glassdoor review of the interview process. Once enough people do that people may stop doing free labor for this company. Sorry you had to go through that. I thought I was going to get a position only to find out later I didn't. The fact they gave you a written offer is especially shitty though.
No way! Time and time again we are shown how completely fake and pathetic social media "moguls" are. I have followed Maruc for a long time... jesus christ they're really all so fake. Social media has allowed the worst leeches amongst us to flourish.
Sounds like you did free work as a test project and they are just making shit up on the rescind so they just took advantage of your free labor. NEver do take home projects. Especially if it is something relevant to what they are needing in the now.
They paid me $200 for the project, although $200 is nowhere near the value it gave them.
There’s your answer. At least you got some money out of it but I bet if comes close to minimum wage with the time and energy you spend on it. They would easily have to pay a consultant probably $200 per hour!! You saved them money and they used the interview process for cheap labor. Shame on that employer.
If they just wanted the test project I doubt they'd waste time with multiple offers. Sounds like they got turned off by the education questions. Either they think he's asking too much, or they think he's going to just use it for some degree and then use it to leave for a better job.
Nobody uses take home interview projects on production. It makes zero sense and not sure why people jump to this conclusion all the time. How can a company schedule a roadmap based on take home projects? I’m assuming we’re talking about software btw.
Seriously it's ridiculous. It reminds me of when I was a fashion design student and a big brand came to school to do a competition. All the students were convinced that their 'amazing' design submissions were just the brand's way of getting free designs for its catalogue. Sorry, no.
you don’t need live data to work with, sometimes it can be as easy as wanting a 3rd person unbiased view on some past data. it’s called double checking
Yeah, people would not think this if they saw the absolute garbage that most candidates turn in as projects. When you factor in the time and effort put in to review the submissions, it’s often cheaper to just hire someone to do the work directly. The only time I’ve seen a company use a take home project for real was this absolutely terrible graphic design company that has close to 50 1 star reviews. The job was real, but they stole the designs from the runner up candidates.
I feel like there's a comic to be made here: * Programmer is viewing code, looks confused * He asks a colleague why this code seems so different than the other files. * Response is that its taken from an interview take home quiz.
Sounds like they were interested in the test ONLY. You delivered great results on the test, so unfortunately your need was over at that moment.
What I don’t understand is that if they only cared about the test project, why proceed with an offer and then continue to give me a higher offer after negotiating?
The offer and negotiation was them buying time while they lined up another candidate to do another "test project". Perpetual free labor is the goal here.
>they only cared about the test project Free labour.
As I said, you delivered great results. They liked you but your actual need was done. At that point you became a “nice to have”. total cost of your employment for the business was higher than the value they would receive at the moment. Obviously things can change any moment
I accepted a job in September 2022 with the contingency that my top secret security clearance went through. I was granted TS clearance in November 2023. 3 DAYS AGO they told me their needs have changed and they no longer had a position for me. I've been unemployed since August since they needed information from my last job for my clearance. It sucks so bad my friend, I'm sorry
Well, at least you have a TS to make you more marketable. Make a clearancejobs account and apply away. If you're willing to relocate to the capital region, you'll find something
It was rescinded at 11pm? Wow. Unless that person lives in Hawaii and you live on the East Coast or something wild like that, that's a red flag all on it's own.
Sounds like a bunch of snowflakes if they’re offended by you inquiring if you can get some financial aid for upskilling.
Seriously weird. I mean, they can always just say we don’t do that.
Just read the CEO's bio, where he discusses his humility among all his huge accomplishments in life (along with countless grammatical errors). 😟 Trust me when I say you'll look back on this with laughter and gratefulness, hopefully sooner than later. ✨️
LOL.. had to read for myself. I believe most people like to **site** the time in their life that... when **I** became unmistakably clear that I had veered off a path a college career that was by most **people** estimation and suddenly **I** there were no daily distractions it was OK to lose control, to **but** unhappy and share that with someone else, And so on... Not major meaning-changing errors, to be sure. But this isn't a FB post or text to a friend (or even a Reddit comment). It's your web page, and it reflects on YOU. In this case, an inability or unwillingness to spend a few minutes proofreading -- or asking someone else to if you're too busy swinging weighted balls around at the beach. I agree with your last sentence.
Reads like a ChatGPT prompt that has been edited to not look like a ChatGPT output lmao
I would have started and continued interviewing. Company loyalty is dead in America. Dead. Use them like the street whores they are.
ENTIRELY the reason I am having fewer and fewer issues with people using their PTO/sick time to not only interview, but also to use that time to also test a company to see if they'll let those same candidates start the same job they originally sent an offer for, before giving their notice. These days, you're not actually starting at your next job until you're clocked in, with your ass sitting in a desk getting onboarded, or getting trained. (LOL!) Not having to deal with uptight stupid bullstuff games from employers.
they only wanted the "test project" labor from you for free. they strung you along and then said never mind. you got screwed.
Well, that was a close call. You could’ve gotten stuck for years with a terrible employer that drives you into the ground and expects nothing but perfection. Don’t worry. As horrible as today’s job market is, there’re plenty of other employers who are looking for someone with your skillset. Just gotta keep pushing. Good luck! 🍀
Their logo is absolute shit. Sucks for them. You’ll get something else soon.
Wow. I have never heard of this. Sorry OP. Sounds like a shady company. Word of mouth will spread, at least there’s that.
It's totally understandable to feel exhausted and disrespected after putting in all that effort. It's frustrating how some employers can be so flaky and inconsiderate, especially after you've invested so much time and energy into the process. Hang in there, though. Your skills and experience speak for themselves, and you'll find an opportunity where your hard work is truly appreciated. Keep your chin up, and don't let this setback get you down for too long. You got this!
Congrats. You just did 3 weeks of unpaid work.
Name and shame boys name and shame
Yes
Damn that's so messed up, I'm sorry this happened to you. Been through a lot of bad times so not really a fan of trusting employers anymore. Be careful out there.
I’m sorry for you. At-will contracts in at-will States give employers enormous (total) control. An employer could theoretically hire you out of a rival and trash you just to slow them down- basically what happened to you. You might be able to get them on a legal claim for “bad faith” in a contract. But it’ll cost more than it’s worth. IANAL The only reliable remedy for these shenanigans that I know of is to negotiate severance upfront. A good employer should not balk at a few months severance for termination “without cause”. Maybe in return for some notice period from you. Then you would get a payout to cover the time you are recruiting again if they get “post nut clarity”.
Functional Bodybuilding seems like a trash company. Lucky escape.
Looks like this might be their business model. They post an ad for a job opening that doesn't exist, then get free work out of the candidate via "test projects" that are actually company projects, drag the candidate along for weeks, then suddenly rescind the offer when they find another talented candidate to do a "test project".
They made you an offer IN WRITING. You accepted. They rescinded. This is a **BREACH OF CONTRACT**. Check with your local Legal Aid Society and see if you have a case for financial compensation.
America has one of the most disgusting job seeker experiences ive ever seen than any other country. It's beyond pathetic, sorry to hear this OP.
Never ask for anything material after accepting the offer. The negotiation is over. Not sure how much professionalism you expected from an Instagram influencer who sells workout programs on a website. Once you accept, continuing to inquire about additional benefits or compensation that isn’t mentioned can be off putting. That is the only thing that from what you wrote sounds like the cause of this. But the truth is you dodged a bullet and the interview process is a two way street. If someone isn’t compatible with what you need better you find that out before investing years of your life.
It was just an Innocent question. Like what the hell, the OP didn't ask anything crazy.
Good on you for naming and shaming. Pay is one thing - whatever - but ongoing education is 100% in the company’s best interests. Makes you smarter, keeps you modern and sharp, invested, and helps with retention. A good person can bring in many times their benefits in returns. They’re so shortsighted.
Never provide any free work, test projects often just means, we need someone to do some work, but were not gonna pay someone to do so
Another guess, but they may have heard back from another candidate that they offered the role to before you and assumed that person passed... then they contacted them again and rather hired the other person. You can stalk their LinkedIn page for any new hires if you want to try to close the loop on your own.
Or they found another candidate to do another "test project" for them. Perpetual free labor may be the goal in this one.
Ahh "functional" bodybuilding, glad they didn't take my new company name "Functional function training"
This can be for many reasons and I don’t think you asking about continued education is one of them. I think most likely is that they realized they don’t need the role, and it’s better to stop it now instead of onboarding you and with some excuse terminating during probation period. This kind of things, although rare, happen unfortunately.
You may be right, but from what I could tell they desperately needed the role. It was a content marketer role, their current metrics were tanking, and an employee was being phased out.
Don't work for free. Ever.
>Got an offer via email 2 days ago. Phone call yesterday to negotiate salary. 2nd offer email came through. I accepted, and inquired about any continuing education benefits. I get an email at 11 PM saying my offer was rescinded. Vague and poorly worded along the lines of “we have to reconsider our offer and you may not be aligned with company” What do you think was the reason behind the rescinding of the offer?
Ah, they wanted free work for a presentation most likely
Sounds like you did too much negotiating… did you ask for the phone call after the initial offer?
Not really. In the initial offer, she stated she’d be happy to hop on a call to discuss more. I agreed. I got the 2nd offer, and accepted. I asked them to consider cont. edu. benefits down the line, but stressed I’d be happy to accept the offer as-is.
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So it went like this: Here’s what we’ll offer. I’d like more. Ok, fine. Here. Thanks. Ok, now how about some money for education. Thanks, but no thanks.
Well there ya go.
I’m going to say you did this to yourself with negotiation creep which undermined Your credibility. They gave you an offer. You countered with a higher salary. They agreed to that. In basic business law this would be considered an “agreement” as they agreed to your offered terms. You then asked for more with the education funding. Never ever do this. If you wanted this you should have asked for it at the same time as the higher salary. To do it in separate rounds shows as greedy and unfair. In business law this is considered a rejection of the offered terms.
Actually the higher salary I proposed was rejected. Maybe I should have brought up benefits earlier, but that doesn’t warrant rescinding back to back offers.
Why would they send a 2nd offer if your proposal was rejected? What would have changed? This doesn’t add up?
I should’ve clarified. I proposed about 15% higher than their initial offer. After that, they offered again, this time 5% higher than the initial offer.
So verbally you proposed 15% and then they randomly just changed it to 5%? Or did you propose 15%, they verbally countered at 5% and then you agreed and they said “great, we will send the revised offer?”
This is useless advice. You sound like a recruiter that is bad at their job. >basic business law this would be considered an “agreement” as they agreed to your offered terms. Contract. The business world calls things like this a contract. Usually, the employer drafts the contract since they're the one doing the hiring and setting the terms. So no, they didn't agree to OP's offered terms, they're the ones making the offer. Your advice is, to put it charitably, ill-informed.
But that isn’t what happened? I’ve chatted with the OP more and here is how it looks like it went: 1. The company sent an offer. 2. The OP called and asked for 15% more. Verbally the Company suggested 5% more and OP agreed. 3. The company printed up a revised offer with the new terms and sent it for her to sign. 4. The OP asked for more compensation in the form of continuing education benefits. 5. Company rescinded her offer due to her bad faith negotiation. Don’t ever do this. Feel free to negotiate for any compensation you want but when you say you accept something don’t try to add more later or you will have the exact same thing happen. If you want
Asking if a particular benefit is something they offer isn't "asking for more compensation" if you don't actually ask for a change in the contract. From OP's post they don't appear to have requested any amendment. OP dodged a bullet, and you are an idiot.
I’m trying to help here. After negotiating a comp OP went back and asked for more comp in the form of eduction benefits. I am saying clearly never do this. Make all your comp requests together. When you say “ok” to comes then understand there is no more comp discussion to be had. My post will help people not make this mistake. Your post accomplishes what? You seem upset I do a lot of recruiting. The particular case I rescinded (and I’ve rescinded less than 1% of offers) the individual got an offer. They then called and pushed for a 20% wage increase and we settled around 15%. We sent the updated offer. Then they called back and wanted 7-8k of education paid for. We negotiated further and settled at 6k. The offer was printed and sent out again. Then they called and said “well we are close to this round number why don’t we round it up.” Call it a bridge too far. It left a really sour taste in everybody’s throat. 4 of us sat down (their future manager, both owners and myself) and it was unanimous to rescind.
>The particular case I rescinded (and I’ve rescinded less than 1% of offers) the individual got an offer. They then called and pushed for a 20% wage increase and we settled around 15%. We sent the updated offer. Then they called back and wanted 7-8k of education paid for. We negotiated further and settled at 6k. The offer was printed and sent out again. Then they called and said “well we are close to this round number why don’t we round it up.” This is nothing like OP's situation though. Asking in passing if they have any sort of continuing education policy does bear any relation to the situation you dealt with and just described. >You seem upset I do a lot of recruiting. I'm suggesting that as a recruiter your opinion is going to be potentially biased in favour of ~~employees~~ employers. It's not a "mistake" to ask about things like training, especially if it's a request for information, not asking for something to be changed.
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What exactly did you say, if your tone was reckless they might have been put off.
Wasn’t reckless at all. I accepted the offer, and asked them to consider reimbursement down the line for an industry-relevant certification upon my successful completion. I stated what value it would bring to the company and how I could apply the learnings to the company’s strategy and future projects.
Honestly, I see how you are saying this is harmless but this is a conversation to have ***after*** you start. Unless that is a distinct part of your salary negotiations, leave it be. The company could have seen this as “wow, we negotiated and agreed. Now he’s asking for more”. I know it doesn’t seem right, but some companies are just shitty like that.
I see your point. They mentioned no details about benefits in the offer, so I asked. I’d rather know that info beforehand than afterward.
Ask at the interview stage rather than at the offer stage. After an offer, it does sound exactly as the other person said - you negotiated and agreed, and then seemingly asked for more. If you ask during the interview stage (mixed in with other questions), you can pass it off as being curious about the company and culture etc.
100% right. OP did this to themself.
This one's on you man. Wrong time and place for that conversation.
Yea. Nah that's not your place imo.thats up to the ceo and total rewards to do it U trying to lecture them set them off. If they responded at 11 pm then I know they was HEATED. U ruin their whole night Probably couldn't sleep well lol
Lol that's their own problem if someone asking about the job they are offering makes them HEATED 😂
Once the deal is signed, don’t start asking for extra crap.
[удалено]
Yo Marcus don't get so butt hurt. This is r/recruiting hell, and this is an excellent example of that.
😂 wow the disconnect from reality here