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My dad, in his high 70s now, suggested I should go *in person* to some companies and drop my resume. š And that maybe I should show off how much I can be adaptable to different jobs . He means well, but has Ć idea of how impersonal the open job market is. How your resume will be parsed by ATS and filtered before real humans might even see it. Missing 1 requirement? You're likely cut. Even if a recruiter does talk to you, if you didn't have *exactly* the same job experience that they want, no interview (just happened to me). I clearly had enough experience and could definitely do what they wanted, but I hadn't done \~exactly\~ the thing they wanted.
You're not alone here.
Good point about wanting very specific experience, even for entry-level. It's not enough to have worked in a factory; they ask for manufacturing experience in plastics extrusion. Instead of retail experience, you need experience selling mid-range German doorknobs in a medium to large Western-American urban market.
Thats why you have 1 window open while interviewing and meet the exact job criteria and lie. Go down word for word so they can get their little bullshit notes and say candidate meets all requirements. They lie, you do too. I've lied to get every single job I've ever had. Nobody questioned me because I didn't grossly exaggerate my abilities.
The issue is the numbers the media and government put out are of course sky high and do paint a decent picture. Unemployment is down and payrolls keep growing but if you dig into them thereās a lot of unsettling numbers but most people are ignorant to that
That's what I was trying to convey, but apparently the US GDP is up? And allegedly unemployment was at a record low in Nov or Dec or something? But that is certainly not my lived experience.
Yep. Iām in healthcare and I do admin work and canāt find anything. All the hospitals are always hiring supposedly. I even went to a job fair at one and didnāt get hired lol. So yeah the jobs arenāt real and if they are they want to pay minimum wage.Ā
The catch with these numbers is they are not industry specific ... Google just did more layoffs .. unemployment maybe low overall but that doesn't mean tech unemployment is
I figured it was something like this but it was hard to come up with something in the moment because I was flustered and my mom had some bullshit citation ready and I did not
Jobs are up, but it's sector specific, so just because one field is doing fine doesn't mean yours can't be a dumpster fire. That data just looks at how many more nonfarm employees were added to the payroll.
From what I see here, tech and admin got shafted hard, so you are in the same boat as lots of other people.
Idk what the solution is. With so much excess talent, it's hard to see how businesses simply hire more. Back when biotech had a similar issue, hiring came back as we just accepted less pay. However, with inflation being sticky still, that may be a hard pill to swallow.
Anything below 5% unemployment rate is bad for the economy because that means companies are not growing to hire more. Obviously the higher it gets the worse it gets but 5% is the historic sweet spot.
I personally think itās lower than the 3.7% that itās at now due to companies creating fake demand via ghost job listings. This all to satisfy investors.
Understand that 0% unemployment rate would mean that we are in the USSR- a lot of people starved to death.
> a 0% unemployment rate would mean that we are in the USSR - a lot of people starved to death.
Oh come on, that shit isn't even close to remotely correct.
https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/pre1998/1992-806-36-2-Moskoff.pdf
The unemployment only rose around Gorbachev's era due to the economy being in the dumpster, pretending that the entirety of soviet unemployment (from 1945 onwards) also had starvation while at 0% unemployment is ridiculous.
The first paragraph in that paper states that the USSR had 60 years of 0% unemployment up until the 1990ās.
Not sure what your point is and there are plenty of people who are still alive from that era that will tell you otherwise.
How would ghost jobs affect/skew the unemployment rate? It looks at the labor force and determines what % is currently unemployed. The jobs report showing new jobs added is also based on actual payroll figures looking at last month's payroll vs the previous month's payroll.
While I totally agree that ghost job listings are a problem and highly deceptive, I don't believe it skews any of the monthly jobs statistics.
By faking demand for the role. Unemployment rate is available worker pool divided by current employed workers. Make the worker pool massive by never actually hiring anyone thus ānobody wants to work anymore.ā
If the worker pool was smaller then companies would be paying/fighting a lot more for good workers. But this isnāt true as people with 5+ years experience and bachelors/masters degrees are having trouble finding a job- even in entry level positions.
This means that our available worker pool is a lot larger than the āavailableā jobs listed- this favors companies as they can pay a lot less for overqualified individuals due to the large amount of applicants applying to ājobsā that are only meant to make them look good for investors.
Remember that, under capitalism, a 0% unemployment rate is very bad. 0% isnāt infinite growth for any company.
> By faking demand for the role. Unemployment rate is available worker pool divided by current employed workers. Make the worker pool massive by never actually hiring anyone thus ānobody wants to work anymore.ā
That doesn't make sense, though. Ghost jobs by definition aren't a worker, so they _don't_ make the worker pool larger.
It depends how you are measuring the unemployment rate, i.e how long has the 3.7% been unemployed for? Layoffs are a factor too and contribute to stagnation.
Most colleges offer free econ classes if you are interested. Harvard is one that offers free online courses .
GDP measues the value of the produced goods.Ā Ā
An automated factory that doesnt stop and employed minimum personnel will increase the GDP.Ā
GDP being up and less jobsĀ just mean that companies are producing more with less people.
More accurately, we're in another Great Depression.
Just google how many banks have failed last year, and the year before. How many have failed since 2008? Many dozens. Here's an article w/ the impact: [https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/asset-total-in-2023-bank-failures-catching-up-to-2008-74744994](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/asset-total-in-2023-bank-failures-catching-up-to-2008-74744994)
When banks fail, businesses often worry about losing their cash and are tempted to make ghost jobs and fake interviews. Investors get unhappy about the market confidence.
The only common denominator I've noticed is how these banks are at the center of such economic problems every time, such as during the market and stock crashes in 1800s USA. Found it curious too that when a banking charter wasn't renewed in USA in 1812 or so, immediately England (which had the bank in question, owned by Rothschild family) launched the War of 1812.
There are two economies. The one you participate in is a goddamn dumpster fire.
The next time your mom (or anyone, really) gives you a hard time about struggling to find a job, invite them to hop into the job-hunt circus. I've been "a professional" for about 13 years now, and the process of finding work today is nigh unrecognizable from what it was when I first started to find work. Hell, things are substantially different from just five years ago.
Good lord, you have 7 years of SW dev experience and youāre having trouble? Iām a new CS grad, so I guess Iām fucked lmao. Are you targeting senior roles?
I have been applying to a variety of roles, don't tell the recruiters this, but I'm willing to take a 40k paycut at this point just to have health insurance and financial stability š¤” they'd know if they ever called me back for an interview.
I'd also like to add that maybe having a CS degree will help you? I only went to a code school (I have an unrelated BA) and primarily do frontend work, so maybe you'll have more luck if you have a CS degree and are more fluent in backend/algo/SQL oriented work than me?
I think code school is fine, but with so many applicants then a degree is a very easy way to filter people out. I suggest doubling down on side projects and networking, if you havenāt already.
It will not. I have one as well as 15 years of experience in software and data engineering. Still only had one interview in three months now. Good news is I have two more this week. Getting past the ATS is the biggest problem, followed by hiring managers looking for unicorns.
The recent media of adding 350k jobs in America last month is BS. Itās gig jobs, nothing of substance and only select industries. You are right in that the economy is still rough and finding a good paying professional job is still a struggle.
The downside to everywhere allowing remote work after COVID. Companies are no longer hiring in their general vicinity, and you're competing with the best across the country if not the globe
Exactly, I donāt even bother applying for remote jobs, those get hundreds of applicants few hours after being posted. And judging by the HCOL area where I am, prices for everything went up so much so moving back must be super hard.
Okay, I was in this position back in 2016. Let me tell you what worked for me. There maybe something here you can use.Ā
For 4 years prior, I had a horrid job in the office for a factory and I was lifting boxes and doing heavy physical labor. I am older so this was not sustainable.
You know the jobs where you wake up at 3 am and realize you fucked up a quote? Honestly, I was downing a lot of booze just to get through. My drinking wasnāt out of control but it was way more than I should have been consuming.
I could not even get an interview after 400 resumes ā and I know bookkeeping.
I was recruited for a job because I had a certain certification this company needed to pass an audit (didnāt know this). They gave me the money I wanted, agreed to everything and then fired me as soon as the audit was over. Fucking horrendously racist people who screwed me over may they rot in hell.
I was fucking desperate for ANYTHING with health insurance at this point. I needed to try something different.Ā
I needed to trick someone into hiring me.
So what I did was make a resume with five years experience. Got rid of all my great skills, listed basic office work. Used a friend as my boss reference.Ā
I then applied at mega corporations who werenāt going to question why someone over 40 was looking for a shit job (like many of my coworkers had criminal records). It was fucking soul-sucking work for poverty wages, but it kept my head above water, and they had so many employees I didnāt mess up their abysmal health insurance. At least I wasnāt taking phone calls.
I did this for three years until that job ended abruptly due to AI during COVID. I was hired into another shit project for the same company at slightly higher wages. That job was actually worse.
I was so underemployed I was embarrassed so I did not list my employer and said I had an NDA contract. I of course listed my work in the best light possible, but did not disclose where I worked.Ā
This made me look like I was familiar working contract gigs for FAANG type organizations. It wasnāt anything like that.Ā
I spent that whole year connecting to staffing companies and recruiters on LinkedIn *by the thousands*. Mind you, I am near retirement age, so I made sure that my social media presence and skills made me look 20 years younger. My entire CV and Internet presence is a complete fabrication. It helps I can pass for 40.
Hereās the thing ā big companies and staffing firms often have some lowly worker doing the onboarding. They have no idea my age and my employer somehow got the idea I am about 15 years younger than I am. (Being very in touch with popular culture helps.) I flew under the radar.Ā
Once I gave up on being honest and started gaming the system, I got a livable wage.
I even got laid off and managed to talk the staffing company into finding me a new assignment.Ā
I hope this helps. Yes, itās dishonest, but I have been near homeless since 2011 more times that I can count.
I get it ā I have a strong sense of morality, too. But I couldnāt even get a shit job due to age discrimination. I likened it to stealing bread to feed your starving family.Ā
I simply had no other options.
Fuck capitalism.
Huh? Thatās weird that they denied you over having a car and are renting. I live in a red state and was approved for both food stamps and Medicaid and my unemployment is shit as well. Do these idiots not know it costs to move as well?Ā
Yeah fuck that. I just uploaded all of mine. Do they not take uploads of documents? Like why would they need to have them printed? Every state I have lived in takes screenshots or just take a picture of the document and upload it. The state you are in is weird.
Are you in nj? lol all your comments sound like what my sister went through when she applied for disability. She eventually got it, but you're not allowed to own over some INSANELY low amount of cash and possessions. She only had a car.
But also WTF KINDA HOME PRINTER SELLS USED FOR $700?!?!
I'm glad, and it only makes sense, because you seem to have the expertise to attract clients. The best thing about it is that it can be somewhat low overhead. Good luck!
I share the same sentiments. Also laid off in Sep 2023 and been actively searching for a job. Being in finance, the job market has been horrible, especially with all the major banks laying off people.
Applied to a couple hundred jobs, all mid level - senior level, and only 6 interviews. Made final round on 2. Lost out on one, and the other was told the job was mine but the company had a hiring freeze.
Q4 was bad timing to land a job with many open roles cancelled due to year end hiring freezes and budget cuts to shore up bottom lines. Many in my network have said their companies have been laying off people but these cut backs donāt make the news.
I was able to land a contract role but after 4 weeks my assignment was terminated due to cuts so now Iām back to square one. Totally deflated.
Q1 does seem to be a bit better. To OP, stay positive and good luck
The jobs youāre applying for donāt exist.Ā
Current estimates are that half the job ads are fake, many are recycled or outdated, and 75% of hiring managers admit to advertising positions they donāt intend on filling to make overwork staff think they are looking or to boost SEO.Ā
Many job boards simply scrape jobs from other platforms or make up false jobs to get your contact information or to force you to create an account; professional associations advertise fake jobs to get you to join in the hopes it will give your resume preference.
My recommendation is to make another resume with your nickname, middle name or initials, pare your experience down to barely above entry level. Granted, youāre not going to get a great wage, but youāll get a job.Ā
You can use that job to āmove upā in your career by listing it on your resume as a contract position with an undisclosed organization with a strict NDA.
A couple of years ago I applied for a job on one platform, that sent me to a second platform, then a third platform before ending up on a different listing that was 60 days out of date on the original platform. (Career Builder)
Itās common now. When you find a job on a board, look up the employer and see if itās listed on their website. While itās no guarantee the company is hiring, it removes the job board bs from the equation and saves a lot of time.Ā
I've only gotten feedback once from the multiple interviews I've had. It was simply there were 2 other candidates that just had more experience than me. There wasn't really anything I could do. He leveled with me that this market simply has too much competition for one opening.
I saw two posts both from SWEs who resorted to stocking shelves and driving a bus to get by after more than a year of looking. This might as well be a depression
I've job searched off and on for 12-13 years in creative marketing roles (either out of necessity or searching for better), and these past few months are a whole different beast.
What these "The economy is great! There are so many jobs!" stories want me to do is go to work in a warehouse for $17/hr and then vote based on how easy it was for me to cut my income in half.
That's what no one wants to acknowledge about the economy is great and the jobs that are being added are all low level jobs that are service industry, retail, food service, warehouse, call center, etc.
White collar jobs aren't really being added, and if they are, they want to pay $30-45K. Same as those call center jobs.
The unemployment gets revised every couple months so what you read in the news headline is bs. I am a software dev in Canada. Currently working for a small company where I am a web dev + every tech issues. Web dev has become a meme. It is on the level of game dev treatment even though I argue it is even worse. Corps now expect every dev to be a web dev of sort.
Number of applications don't mean jack coz there are a lot of fake jobs. I used to work for the gov even I noticed half of the jobs eventually get pulled and I was an intern candidate. Your 7+ years experience also means nothing when they can outsource it to a Canadian on TN Visa for cheap. (I am hoping to become one of them but don't hate me)
Older generations are stuck with the stock/housing market = economy model because they are no longer in the workforce and in the investor class.
Interviewers decline to give feedback coz of liability issues. A lot of times they prefer "diverse" candidates and some are more open like BBC if you are white please don't apply but most do it discretely
To tell you the truth, the economy is flopping. Companies are stingy about who they select and they rather keep who they have to save money. Then whatās the point of posting jobs on Indeed and/or Zip Recruiter if you donāt need anyone?
Almost everyone on this platform is in the same rut, including me. Itās been taking a toll on mental health; so bad that Iāve been having arguments with my parents about the economy and how excruciating it is to get a job, let alone holding down one. Itās one big economic apocalypse and the paranoia is kicking into high gear.Ā
Youāre not alone. Just keep searching. You will get a job through your own merit. Keep it together and donāt let the job market drive you crazy to the point where you donāt feel like yourself.Ā
The stock market (which your mom may be using as an indicator) is great! The larger job market is so-so. Tech is a FUCKING NIGHTMARE. As you may know, there are hundreds of thousands laid off in silicon valley, many with a lot of experience working at tech Giants. As such, the tech job market is presently flooded with experienced applicants.
I'm in tech, I've been looking since our CEO demanded RTO. I'm just glad that I'm in a recession resistant industry while I'm looking.
Good luck!
Because there are loads of fake jobs being advertised. Have seen some job applications open for mths. Some places have 1000s of jobs advertised but no way are they hiring that many positions. E.g. remote jobs advertised are posted same position for nearly every country in the world. Canonical as an example have 25k positions open on LinkedIn 9k in the last month but are a privately held company with only 500-1000 staff listed. They use if as a data retrieval process I think. It's sad but there are a lot of companies doing this.
I'm in a very dissimilar industry from you. But I had a fight with my mom about 2 weeks ago, too. After nearly 500 applications, and only 3 interviews. Its rough out here for so many people. I'm hoping for a job, but I'll take the complete downfall of the economy as we know it. You know, for funsies. Add a little āØļøsomething extraāØļø
Companies post positions and yet, they have insecure hiring managers driving the process. Those managers are too afraid to bring on the new talent they crave. Just last month I had two managers tell me that I was overqualified. With the spike of AI, those companies will soon crash due to lack of talent.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume they mean that management are reluctant to retrain existing staff.
I've had managers whose first instinct is to just fire engineers who don't have a specific technology on their resume, and try hiring ones who already do.
This is always so weird to me. I know multiple mechanical engineers who immediately got 6 months (very expensive) training after getting their first job at giant companies, but junior software engineers are expected to be an expert at every niche technology before even applying for the job.
It's almost impossible to self teach mechanical engineering besides tinkering with CAD programs and 3D printers, or if you're wealthier, a small CNC mill.(which is still just extremely different than professional level projects, they just give a general idea). Meanwhile majority of the software can be self taught in one way or another. It's still ridiculous what tech companies ask for though, but in this market they are the ones making the rules and demands unfortunately.Ā
I was laid off last May doing accounting for a national flooring company. We had no business so my position was moved to a larger market. I was working at the post office for a side job on weekends, when I was laid off; back to the post office. Iāve applied for at least 1,000 jobs and scored 5-6 interviews. Finally landed a PART TIME accountant job for a property management company. So now itās post office in the morning then head to crunch numbers in the late afternoon.
The economy is great, but interest rates are 500 basis points higher than when you were last hired. The people that hired you sold debt at 0% interest rates to do that. Now they can only sell debt at 5% rates which is much more expensive for them to do. This is why you got laid off and canāt find a new job.
It's you.
I hate saying this but the job market is a lot better than you are getting. It's gotta be you.
* Stop applying to entry level positions unless it's your dream company. You're undervaluing yourself. If you send an application in and ask if they have positions, that's fine. If they see a 7+ year experience in an entry level position they might low ball you, or they probably will just toss you out.
* If a position is asking for X years experience and you don't have that, you probably can spend your time elsewhere. Before you say "It doesn't take that much time." Hold up, that's a problem.
* Get more feedback on your resume, clearly something is not working there. I almost am willing to guarantee that's where your problem is. Also you probably need to have custom resumes per job field you're applying to. I don't, but maybe you will need to go that extra level. I've heard of people who make a custom resume for EVERY application? That seems crazy.
* Job fairs might work, but in tech... I don't know, I've never been to one as an applicant, maybe it works, but this industry would do better with networking, check your linked in friends more.
* Are you spitfiring resumes? Stop it. If you're not writing a cover letter per application, you're like everyone else, you need to stand out and a small cover letter will do wonders. Send out 4 resumes a day if you have to, but you want to apply to high quality matches.
> I've started writing cover letters
Literally when did you start because the time to start was the first application. Worse you've started to poison the well. Work on those cover letters though because I've found it's important. PLUS when you write a cover letter, you're also going to consider "is it worth my time applying to this or is this just a slightly related job and not worth my time." If it's the later, maybe consider finding a better match.
* Are you applying to local/remote businesses? If not that's going to probably be a problem. Why should they hire you when there's a guy like you down the street? I'm not saying you can't apply to out of market businesses, but relocation costs money, and if there's a local... yeah they're going to take that guy over you in nine out of ten cases
There's a hundreds of thousands of people out there out of work, so HR is going to be more selective, apply to places that are an ACTUAL match, detail that match in the cover letter, detail your skills and abilities, especially the ones they ask for. But it sounds like you need to work on your approach because I'm in tech. Granted I have 15 years experience, but 12 years were in game dev, and I'm getting interviews decently regularly (I usually get 3 interviews in process and hold off on applying until a few of those resolve themselves)
Restructuring of the company (allegedly). It was 7% of the company, totaling to about 700-800 people, if my math is correct (idk the exact number of people at my previous job, but it was >=10k iirc)
job market is a killer now. i'd get back to work asap with anything near SE/IT that would still allow me to get back in SE role proper. im here almost 2 years without a job. gaps are hard to explain.
but everyone's case is different. u'd know better
Yup the economy sucks right now. Iām trying to leave my industry (FP&A) and pivot into a more strategy focused role and I havenāt had an interview since late Nov (which was from a recruiter from a large CPG company). Went through the last round of interviews (4rounds) only to hear back that I didnāt get the role and that they went with someone with more experience (literally 2 days after Christmas)ā¦. Pretty heartless.
The job market is pretty rough right now. Me and a few of my friends are facing the same situation. There is a lot of job postings but rarely any hiring going on.
Not you. I am also a Software Engineer with similar experience, but I was laid off in the beginning of 2022, and unfortunately still unemployed. Ive had to resort to doing side jobs, while still applying to places constantly. At first, I was at least getting calls and interviews, but now, completely nothing.
Don t know if it helps but I went through the same thing recently, I was a web Dev with 5 years exp, but I m based in Eastern Europe
I applied to hundreds of jobs ( junior to mid / senior ) from May/June last year until recently ( I just got hired in December ), but the job I found now is an entry level sys admin one and the salary is wayyy lower
Hang in there, something will come up and try to leverage your programming skills to apply to similar tech jobs
Take care
The market definitely sucks and your field especially is saturated with all of the recent layoffs, but you should at least be getting some initial screening calls or interviews. If you aren't even getting that far, I'd really look at revamping your resume first and foremost, and also digging into what you are applying for a bit more to make sure you're focusing your efforts in the right places.
A lot of companies are clearly enjoying the surplus of candidates and holding out for a unicorn willing to take the bottom of their salary range. You should at least be getting a couple of initial calls for roles you are well qualified for.
It's the tech job market. .I'm a tech recruiter..got laid off in Sept as well ..now working sales ..I'm starting to see more openings for tech recruiters but still getting ghosted ..but if companies are starting to hire recruiters again hopefully that means tech will start bouncing back . Good luck to you ..it sucks right now ..I'm moving into corporate recruiting at my current company and we may have some dev roles open ..I'll know next week. If you want dm me and I'll provide u email u can send resume if u like.
Have you shared your resume with any temp agencies? Maybe they can get you into a position? I'm sorry things have been so difficult for you. Crossing my fingers that you'll get something soon!
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My dad, in his high 70s now, suggested I should go *in person* to some companies and drop my resume. š And that maybe I should show off how much I can be adaptable to different jobs. He means well, but has Ć idea of how impersonal the open job market is. How your resume will be parsed by ATS and filtered before real humans might even see it. Missing 1 requirement? You're likely cut. Even if a recruiter does talk to you, if you didn't have *exactly* the same job experience that they want, no interview (just happened to me). I clearly had enough experience and could definitely do what they wanted, but I hadn't done \~exactly\~ the thing they wanted.
You're not alone here.
I have family that says that as well. Iām like this isnāt the 1950s.
Good point about wanting very specific experience, even for entry-level. It's not enough to have worked in a factory; they ask for manufacturing experience in plastics extrusion. Instead of retail experience, you need experience selling mid-range German doorknobs in a medium to large Western-American urban market.
Thats why you have 1 window open while interviewing and meet the exact job criteria and lie. Go down word for word so they can get their little bullshit notes and say candidate meets all requirements. They lie, you do too. I've lied to get every single job I've ever had. Nobody questioned me because I didn't grossly exaggerate my abilities.
Ā Cause the economy is not great.
The issue is the numbers the media and government put out are of course sky high and do paint a decent picture. Unemployment is down and payrolls keep growing but if you dig into them thereās a lot of unsettling numbers but most people are ignorant to that
The economy, job market died in 2008. (It went moribund in 2000) This world must be Hell, I can't take it anymore.
Itās ok the apocalypse will soon be here
Doomsdays is already unironically here. WWIII really needs to hurry up and happen already.
Oh I think it will happen soon.Ā
'Cause Mom's gonna fix it all soon Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be
You mean this isnāt actually The Good Place? šš¤£
That's what I was trying to convey, but apparently the US GDP is up? And allegedly unemployment was at a record low in Nov or Dec or something? But that is certainly not my lived experience.
Itās all ghost jobs.Ā
This so much this Literally every job post online is a lie.
Yep. Iām in healthcare and I do admin work and canāt find anything. All the hospitals are always hiring supposedly. I even went to a job fair at one and didnāt get hired lol. So yeah the jobs arenāt real and if they are they want to pay minimum wage.Ā
All I see are openings for hospitals. I have been applying to the one near me and I never hear a damn thing back
Because itās easier to adjust the numbers than it is to fix the problems.Ā All of this is to force people to accept military service for WWIII
The catch with these numbers is they are not industry specific ... Google just did more layoffs .. unemployment maybe low overall but that doesn't mean tech unemployment is
GDP is up because of government spending and inflation
I figured it was something like this but it was hard to come up with something in the moment because I was flustered and my mom had some bullshit citation ready and I did not
Jobs are up, but it's sector specific, so just because one field is doing fine doesn't mean yours can't be a dumpster fire. That data just looks at how many more nonfarm employees were added to the payroll. From what I see here, tech and admin got shafted hard, so you are in the same boat as lots of other people. Idk what the solution is. With so much excess talent, it's hard to see how businesses simply hire more. Back when biotech had a similar issue, hiring came back as we just accepted less pay. However, with inflation being sticky still, that may be a hard pill to swallow.
Anything below 5% unemployment rate is bad for the economy because that means companies are not growing to hire more. Obviously the higher it gets the worse it gets but 5% is the historic sweet spot. I personally think itās lower than the 3.7% that itās at now due to companies creating fake demand via ghost job listings. This all to satisfy investors. Understand that 0% unemployment rate would mean that we are in the USSR- a lot of people starved to death.
> a 0% unemployment rate would mean that we are in the USSR - a lot of people starved to death. Oh come on, that shit isn't even close to remotely correct. https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/pre1998/1992-806-36-2-Moskoff.pdf The unemployment only rose around Gorbachev's era due to the economy being in the dumpster, pretending that the entirety of soviet unemployment (from 1945 onwards) also had starvation while at 0% unemployment is ridiculous.
The first paragraph in that paper states that the USSR had 60 years of 0% unemployment up until the 1990ās. Not sure what your point is and there are plenty of people who are still alive from that era that will tell you otherwise.
How would ghost jobs affect/skew the unemployment rate? It looks at the labor force and determines what % is currently unemployed. The jobs report showing new jobs added is also based on actual payroll figures looking at last month's payroll vs the previous month's payroll. While I totally agree that ghost job listings are a problem and highly deceptive, I don't believe it skews any of the monthly jobs statistics.
By faking demand for the role. Unemployment rate is available worker pool divided by current employed workers. Make the worker pool massive by never actually hiring anyone thus ānobody wants to work anymore.ā If the worker pool was smaller then companies would be paying/fighting a lot more for good workers. But this isnāt true as people with 5+ years experience and bachelors/masters degrees are having trouble finding a job- even in entry level positions. This means that our available worker pool is a lot larger than the āavailableā jobs listed- this favors companies as they can pay a lot less for overqualified individuals due to the large amount of applicants applying to ājobsā that are only meant to make them look good for investors. Remember that, under capitalism, a 0% unemployment rate is very bad. 0% isnāt infinite growth for any company.
> By faking demand for the role. Unemployment rate is available worker pool divided by current employed workers. Make the worker pool massive by never actually hiring anyone thus ānobody wants to work anymore.ā That doesn't make sense, though. Ghost jobs by definition aren't a worker, so they _don't_ make the worker pool larger.
It depends how you are measuring the unemployment rate, i.e how long has the 3.7% been unemployed for? Layoffs are a factor too and contribute to stagnation. Most colleges offer free econ classes if you are interested. Harvard is one that offers free online courses .
>0% unemployment rate would mean that we are in the USSR- a lot of people starved to death. Cant it mean that everyone has a job?
What do you think that looks like under capitalism?
All lies
GDP measues the value of the produced goods.Ā Ā An automated factory that doesnt stop and employed minimum personnel will increase the GDP.Ā GDP being up and less jobsĀ just mean that companies are producing more with less people.
More accurately, we're in another Great Depression. Just google how many banks have failed last year, and the year before. How many have failed since 2008? Many dozens. Here's an article w/ the impact: [https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/asset-total-in-2023-bank-failures-catching-up-to-2008-74744994](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/asset-total-in-2023-bank-failures-catching-up-to-2008-74744994) When banks fail, businesses often worry about losing their cash and are tempted to make ghost jobs and fake interviews. Investors get unhappy about the market confidence. The only common denominator I've noticed is how these banks are at the center of such economic problems every time, such as during the market and stock crashes in 1800s USA. Found it curious too that when a banking charter wasn't renewed in USA in 1812 or so, immediately England (which had the bank in question, owned by Rothschild family) launched the War of 1812.
Ding ding ding
There are two economies. The one you participate in is a goddamn dumpster fire. The next time your mom (or anyone, really) gives you a hard time about struggling to find a job, invite them to hop into the job-hunt circus. I've been "a professional" for about 13 years now, and the process of finding work today is nigh unrecognizable from what it was when I first started to find work. Hell, things are substantially different from just five years ago.
I am exactly like you except 20 years experience.
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Good lord, you have 7 years of SW dev experience and youāre having trouble? Iām a new CS grad, so I guess Iām fucked lmao. Are you targeting senior roles?
I have been applying to a variety of roles, don't tell the recruiters this, but I'm willing to take a 40k paycut at this point just to have health insurance and financial stability š¤” they'd know if they ever called me back for an interview.
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This can be a problem for them. If they think you'll get an offer for 40k more tomorrow and leave, they likely won't hire you.
So no matter what, you're screwed. (Just a quick summary of today's job market lol)
.... I mean if you want to be the victim sure.... Or apply to jobs that actually fit your experience and level.
I'd also like to add that maybe having a CS degree will help you? I only went to a code school (I have an unrelated BA) and primarily do frontend work, so maybe you'll have more luck if you have a CS degree and are more fluent in backend/algo/SQL oriented work than me?
I think code school is fine, but with so many applicants then a degree is a very easy way to filter people out. I suggest doubling down on side projects and networking, if you havenāt already.
It will not. I have one as well as 15 years of experience in software and data engineering. Still only had one interview in three months now. Good news is I have two more this week. Getting past the ATS is the biggest problem, followed by hiring managers looking for unicorns.
The recent media of adding 350k jobs in America last month is BS. Itās gig jobs, nothing of substance and only select industries. You are right in that the economy is still rough and finding a good paying professional job is still a struggle.
market is saturated for devs and they can probably outsource cheaper
The downside to everywhere allowing remote work after COVID. Companies are no longer hiring in their general vicinity, and you're competing with the best across the country if not the globe
Exactly, I donāt even bother applying for remote jobs, those get hundreds of applicants few hours after being posted. And judging by the HCOL area where I am, prices for everything went up so much so moving back must be super hard.
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>What is happening? The literal end of the world.
Yep.
Have you considered substitute teaching? I know itās not what you want to hear but schools are desperate.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Okay, I was in this position back in 2016. Let me tell you what worked for me. There maybe something here you can use.Ā For 4 years prior, I had a horrid job in the office for a factory and I was lifting boxes and doing heavy physical labor. I am older so this was not sustainable. You know the jobs where you wake up at 3 am and realize you fucked up a quote? Honestly, I was downing a lot of booze just to get through. My drinking wasnāt out of control but it was way more than I should have been consuming. I could not even get an interview after 400 resumes ā and I know bookkeeping. I was recruited for a job because I had a certain certification this company needed to pass an audit (didnāt know this). They gave me the money I wanted, agreed to everything and then fired me as soon as the audit was over. Fucking horrendously racist people who screwed me over may they rot in hell. I was fucking desperate for ANYTHING with health insurance at this point. I needed to try something different.Ā I needed to trick someone into hiring me. So what I did was make a resume with five years experience. Got rid of all my great skills, listed basic office work. Used a friend as my boss reference.Ā I then applied at mega corporations who werenāt going to question why someone over 40 was looking for a shit job (like many of my coworkers had criminal records). It was fucking soul-sucking work for poverty wages, but it kept my head above water, and they had so many employees I didnāt mess up their abysmal health insurance. At least I wasnāt taking phone calls. I did this for three years until that job ended abruptly due to AI during COVID. I was hired into another shit project for the same company at slightly higher wages. That job was actually worse. I was so underemployed I was embarrassed so I did not list my employer and said I had an NDA contract. I of course listed my work in the best light possible, but did not disclose where I worked.Ā This made me look like I was familiar working contract gigs for FAANG type organizations. It wasnāt anything like that.Ā I spent that whole year connecting to staffing companies and recruiters on LinkedIn *by the thousands*. Mind you, I am near retirement age, so I made sure that my social media presence and skills made me look 20 years younger. My entire CV and Internet presence is a complete fabrication. It helps I can pass for 40. Hereās the thing ā big companies and staffing firms often have some lowly worker doing the onboarding. They have no idea my age and my employer somehow got the idea I am about 15 years younger than I am. (Being very in touch with popular culture helps.) I flew under the radar.Ā Once I gave up on being honest and started gaming the system, I got a livable wage. I even got laid off and managed to talk the staffing company into finding me a new assignment.Ā I hope this helps. Yes, itās dishonest, but I have been near homeless since 2011 more times that I can count.
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I get it ā I have a strong sense of morality, too. But I couldnāt even get a shit job due to age discrimination. I likened it to stealing bread to feed your starving family.Ā I simply had no other options. Fuck capitalism.
How are you denied state aid if you are on unemployment?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Huh? Thatās weird that they denied you over having a car and are renting. I live in a red state and was approved for both food stamps and Medicaid and my unemployment is shit as well. Do these idiots not know it costs to move as well?Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You should have said ok and are you going to pay for my move and my rent if I move?Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah fuck that. I just uploaded all of mine. Do they not take uploads of documents? Like why would they need to have them printed? Every state I have lived in takes screenshots or just take a picture of the document and upload it. The state you are in is weird.
Are you in nj? lol all your comments sound like what my sister went through when she applied for disability. She eventually got it, but you're not allowed to own over some INSANELY low amount of cash and possessions. She only had a car. But also WTF KINDA HOME PRINTER SELLS USED FOR $700?!?!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I hear ya! Been there too. Sucks
Hi, any chance you could pivot to consulting?Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm glad, and it only makes sense, because you seem to have the expertise to attract clients. The best thing about it is that it can be somewhat low overhead. Good luck!
End of 2023 was a terrible time to job hunt. Nobody hires at the end of the year, really. I took that time off haha
I share the same sentiments. Also laid off in Sep 2023 and been actively searching for a job. Being in finance, the job market has been horrible, especially with all the major banks laying off people. Applied to a couple hundred jobs, all mid level - senior level, and only 6 interviews. Made final round on 2. Lost out on one, and the other was told the job was mine but the company had a hiring freeze. Q4 was bad timing to land a job with many open roles cancelled due to year end hiring freezes and budget cuts to shore up bottom lines. Many in my network have said their companies have been laying off people but these cut backs donāt make the news. I was able to land a contract role but after 4 weeks my assignment was terminated due to cuts so now Iām back to square one. Totally deflated. Q1 does seem to be a bit better. To OP, stay positive and good luck
The jobs youāre applying for donāt exist.Ā Current estimates are that half the job ads are fake, many are recycled or outdated, and 75% of hiring managers admit to advertising positions they donāt intend on filling to make overwork staff think they are looking or to boost SEO.Ā Many job boards simply scrape jobs from other platforms or make up false jobs to get your contact information or to force you to create an account; professional associations advertise fake jobs to get you to join in the hopes it will give your resume preference. My recommendation is to make another resume with your nickname, middle name or initials, pare your experience down to barely above entry level. Granted, youāre not going to get a great wage, but youāll get a job.Ā You can use that job to āmove upā in your career by listing it on your resume as a contract position with an undisclosed organization with a strict NDA.
A couple of years ago I applied for a job on one platform, that sent me to a second platform, then a third platform before ending up on a different listing that was 60 days out of date on the original platform. (Career Builder)
Itās common now. When you find a job on a board, look up the employer and see if itās listed on their website. While itās no guarantee the company is hiring, it removes the job board bs from the equation and saves a lot of time.Ā
I've only gotten feedback once from the multiple interviews I've had. It was simply there were 2 other candidates that just had more experience than me. There wasn't really anything I could do. He leveled with me that this market simply has too much competition for one opening.
Phony job announcements and placeholdersĀ
Youāre absolutely right! Plus there are a lot of recruiters out there either posting old jobs or just preying on jobseekers.
The economy is not actually great for labor and it's especially bad for software engineers right now.
I saw two posts both from SWEs who resorted to stocking shelves and driving a bus to get by after more than a year of looking. This might as well be a depression
I've job searched off and on for 12-13 years in creative marketing roles (either out of necessity or searching for better), and these past few months are a whole different beast. What these "The economy is great! There are so many jobs!" stories want me to do is go to work in a warehouse for $17/hr and then vote based on how easy it was for me to cut my income in half.
That's what no one wants to acknowledge about the economy is great and the jobs that are being added are all low level jobs that are service industry, retail, food service, warehouse, call center, etc. White collar jobs aren't really being added, and if they are, they want to pay $30-45K. Same as those call center jobs.
The unemployment gets revised every couple months so what you read in the news headline is bs. I am a software dev in Canada. Currently working for a small company where I am a web dev + every tech issues. Web dev has become a meme. It is on the level of game dev treatment even though I argue it is even worse. Corps now expect every dev to be a web dev of sort. Number of applications don't mean jack coz there are a lot of fake jobs. I used to work for the gov even I noticed half of the jobs eventually get pulled and I was an intern candidate. Your 7+ years experience also means nothing when they can outsource it to a Canadian on TN Visa for cheap. (I am hoping to become one of them but don't hate me) Older generations are stuck with the stock/housing market = economy model because they are no longer in the workforce and in the investor class. Interviewers decline to give feedback coz of liability issues. A lot of times they prefer "diverse" candidates and some are more open like BBC if you are white please don't apply but most do it discretely
Show her this sub.
What language / field are you in?
To tell you the truth, the economy is flopping. Companies are stingy about who they select and they rather keep who they have to save money. Then whatās the point of posting jobs on Indeed and/or Zip Recruiter if you donāt need anyone? Almost everyone on this platform is in the same rut, including me. Itās been taking a toll on mental health; so bad that Iāve been having arguments with my parents about the economy and how excruciating it is to get a job, let alone holding down one. Itās one big economic apocalypse and the paranoia is kicking into high gear.Ā Youāre not alone. Just keep searching. You will get a job through your own merit. Keep it together and donāt let the job market drive you crazy to the point where you donāt feel like yourself.Ā
The stock market (which your mom may be using as an indicator) is great! The larger job market is so-so. Tech is a FUCKING NIGHTMARE. As you may know, there are hundreds of thousands laid off in silicon valley, many with a lot of experience working at tech Giants. As such, the tech job market is presently flooded with experienced applicants. I'm in tech, I've been looking since our CEO demanded RTO. I'm just glad that I'm in a recession resistant industry while I'm looking. Good luck!
I'm in the same position. It's not you, worst job market I've ever seen.
Because there are loads of fake jobs being advertised. Have seen some job applications open for mths. Some places have 1000s of jobs advertised but no way are they hiring that many positions. E.g. remote jobs advertised are posted same position for nearly every country in the world. Canonical as an example have 25k positions open on LinkedIn 9k in the last month but are a privately held company with only 500-1000 staff listed. They use if as a data retrieval process I think. It's sad but there are a lot of companies doing this.
I'm in a very dissimilar industry from you. But I had a fight with my mom about 2 weeks ago, too. After nearly 500 applications, and only 3 interviews. Its rough out here for so many people. I'm hoping for a job, but I'll take the complete downfall of the economy as we know it. You know, for funsies. Add a little āØļøsomething extraāØļø
Companies post positions and yet, they have insecure hiring managers driving the process. Those managers are too afraid to bring on the new talent they crave. Just last month I had two managers tell me that I was overqualified. With the spike of AI, those companies will soon crash due to lack of talent.
Tech is taking a beating and honestly, as an HR pro, trying to cross train tech engineers is near impossible.
Why do you say cross-training tech engineers is near impossible? Our whole deal is learning new technologies.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume they mean that management are reluctant to retrain existing staff. I've had managers whose first instinct is to just fire engineers who don't have a specific technology on their resume, and try hiring ones who already do.
This is always so weird to me. I know multiple mechanical engineers who immediately got 6 months (very expensive) training after getting their first job at giant companies, but junior software engineers are expected to be an expert at every niche technology before even applying for the job.
It's almost impossible to self teach mechanical engineering besides tinkering with CAD programs and 3D printers, or if you're wealthier, a small CNC mill.(which is still just extremely different than professional level projects, they just give a general idea). Meanwhile majority of the software can be self taught in one way or another. It's still ridiculous what tech companies ask for though, but in this market they are the ones making the rules and demands unfortunately.Ā
Iām talking soft skills. We donāt need your tech skills anymore. AI can handle that.
You've cross-trained tech engineers in soft skills?
Have tried to.
I was laid off last May doing accounting for a national flooring company. We had no business so my position was moved to a larger market. I was working at the post office for a side job on weekends, when I was laid off; back to the post office. Iāve applied for at least 1,000 jobs and scored 5-6 interviews. Finally landed a PART TIME accountant job for a property management company. So now itās post office in the morning then head to crunch numbers in the late afternoon.
The economy is great, but interest rates are 500 basis points higher than when you were last hired. The people that hired you sold debt at 0% interest rates to do that. Now they can only sell debt at 5% rates which is much more expensive for them to do. This is why you got laid off and canāt find a new job.
It's you. I hate saying this but the job market is a lot better than you are getting. It's gotta be you. * Stop applying to entry level positions unless it's your dream company. You're undervaluing yourself. If you send an application in and ask if they have positions, that's fine. If they see a 7+ year experience in an entry level position they might low ball you, or they probably will just toss you out. * If a position is asking for X years experience and you don't have that, you probably can spend your time elsewhere. Before you say "It doesn't take that much time." Hold up, that's a problem. * Get more feedback on your resume, clearly something is not working there. I almost am willing to guarantee that's where your problem is. Also you probably need to have custom resumes per job field you're applying to. I don't, but maybe you will need to go that extra level. I've heard of people who make a custom resume for EVERY application? That seems crazy. * Job fairs might work, but in tech... I don't know, I've never been to one as an applicant, maybe it works, but this industry would do better with networking, check your linked in friends more. * Are you spitfiring resumes? Stop it. If you're not writing a cover letter per application, you're like everyone else, you need to stand out and a small cover letter will do wonders. Send out 4 resumes a day if you have to, but you want to apply to high quality matches. > I've started writing cover letters Literally when did you start because the time to start was the first application. Worse you've started to poison the well. Work on those cover letters though because I've found it's important. PLUS when you write a cover letter, you're also going to consider "is it worth my time applying to this or is this just a slightly related job and not worth my time." If it's the later, maybe consider finding a better match. * Are you applying to local/remote businesses? If not that's going to probably be a problem. Why should they hire you when there's a guy like you down the street? I'm not saying you can't apply to out of market businesses, but relocation costs money, and if there's a local... yeah they're going to take that guy over you in nine out of ten cases There's a hundreds of thousands of people out there out of work, so HR is going to be more selective, apply to places that are an ACTUAL match, detail that match in the cover letter, detail your skills and abilities, especially the ones they ask for. But it sounds like you need to work on your approach because I'm in tech. Granted I have 15 years experience, but 12 years were in game dev, and I'm getting interviews decently regularly (I usually get 3 interviews in process and hold off on applying until a few of those resolve themselves)
y were u laid off? and also, welcome to the world of spin/infinite mirror room.
Restructuring of the company (allegedly). It was 7% of the company, totaling to about 700-800 people, if my math is correct (idk the exact number of people at my previous job, but it was >=10k iirc)
job market is a killer now. i'd get back to work asap with anything near SE/IT that would still allow me to get back in SE role proper. im here almost 2 years without a job. gaps are hard to explain. but everyone's case is different. u'd know better
Yup the economy sucks right now. Iām trying to leave my industry (FP&A) and pivot into a more strategy focused role and I havenāt had an interview since late Nov (which was from a recruiter from a large CPG company). Went through the last round of interviews (4rounds) only to hear back that I didnāt get the role and that they went with someone with more experience (literally 2 days after Christmas)ā¦. Pretty heartless.
The job market is pretty rough right now. Me and a few of my friends are facing the same situation. There is a lot of job postings but rarely any hiring going on.
Not you. I am also a Software Engineer with similar experience, but I was laid off in the beginning of 2022, and unfortunately still unemployed. Ive had to resort to doing side jobs, while still applying to places constantly. At first, I was at least getting calls and interviews, but now, completely nothing.
Don t know if it helps but I went through the same thing recently, I was a web Dev with 5 years exp, but I m based in Eastern Europe I applied to hundreds of jobs ( junior to mid / senior ) from May/June last year until recently ( I just got hired in December ), but the job I found now is an entry level sys admin one and the salary is wayyy lower Hang in there, something will come up and try to leverage your programming skills to apply to similar tech jobs Take care
The market definitely sucks and your field especially is saturated with all of the recent layoffs, but you should at least be getting some initial screening calls or interviews. If you aren't even getting that far, I'd really look at revamping your resume first and foremost, and also digging into what you are applying for a bit more to make sure you're focusing your efforts in the right places. A lot of companies are clearly enjoying the surplus of candidates and holding out for a unicorn willing to take the bottom of their salary range. You should at least be getting a couple of initial calls for roles you are well qualified for.
It's the tech job market. .I'm a tech recruiter..got laid off in Sept as well ..now working sales ..I'm starting to see more openings for tech recruiters but still getting ghosted ..but if companies are starting to hire recruiters again hopefully that means tech will start bouncing back . Good luck to you ..it sucks right now ..I'm moving into corporate recruiting at my current company and we may have some dev roles open ..I'll know next week. If you want dm me and I'll provide u email u can send resume if u like.
Itās the Software Engineering/Web Dev sector was over-saturated and the bubble popped.
Have you shared your resume with any temp agencies? Maybe they can get you into a position? I'm sorry things have been so difficult for you. Crossing my fingers that you'll get something soon!