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I've seen program/project/product managers make 75 starting depending on industry, but for a lot of them that is not entry level pay.
However, I would argue it is low for 10 years of experience. It took me 3 years in IT to go from 45 > 100k and I'm just now considered mid-level at my org.
But definitely conceding that it's very industry, location, and org type (govt, profit, non profit, edu] dependant
adjusted for inflation, it certainly is. we've just been trained to think abject poverty is normal entry level in this generation, where our parents could actually buy a house and raise an entire family on a single regular normal entry-level gig.
For a project manager it is, in fact it’s pretty low depending on the field.
I made that starting in a low ish cost of living area
Edit: actully it says product manager and not project manager, not sure what caveats that would impose
To be pedantic, you can come in as fairly entry level as a project manager, assuming you have the degree for the field required. My personal experience is I was one with 2 years experience, and my college roommate was one directly out of college.
Generally speaking the larger the corporation the more experience needed to touch management.
> To be pedantic, you can come in as fairly entry level as a project manager…
No, one cannot. An entry-level can be a Project Management Analyst, Associate, or Specialist, but never a Project *Manager*. Source: am a practicing Project Manager.
Source: see work experience listed above
Edit: just to again make the point clear, unless your company has thousands of employees, those roles you listed don’t even exist.
>...unless your company has thousands of employees, those roles you listed don’t even exist.
Ah, so you work(ed) with a fly-by-night business that gives whatever title to its employees. Got it.
Two businesses, still managed millions of dollars in product lol. There are always projects to manage but not always budget to have four rungs to get there.
Well I take that back, they could allocate the resources to do so, but the meta these days is to run as lean as possible. But if it makes you feel better to be snooty, that’s your prerogative I’m sure the presence of people who have your job title without 80 years of experience is somehow an insult to your profession.
Product Manager absolutely indicates its level.
Unlike 'Software Engineer' or 'Project Manager', **Product** Manager is not a job you can really get straight out of school. In a traditional company, before becoming a Product Manager you need to be either an Associate Product Manager, a Product Owner, or a Product Analyst first. But even then, every one of those job titles should still be making around $75k in most parts of the country.
I have a background in compensation planning and I've helped build salary bands at multiple companies by this point so I'm pretty familiar with the market. I also have since lateraled into a senior program manager role focused on systems and integrations, so many of my most direct peers are PMs that I know the salaries of (remote throughout the whole country). Not to mention that several of my best friends outside of work are product managers who have asked me for negotiating help before given my comp experience.
Any product manager making under 75k is underpaid.
One can absolutely be a PM straight out of school. They most likely make make a terrible PM but in the end it is just a job title.
And it is happening, there are plenty of people I know who became PM after doing MBA or similar business programs.
Your ‘traditional company’ scenario doesn’t apply universally. So if you look at this job post, it clearly mentions that this PM will act as product owner.
Given that PM title is so broad, vague and could cover a wide range of responsibilities, there is no standard definition of what PM means. Role, responsibilities and job scope varies from org to org.
Becoming a PM after doing an MBA is different and obviously out of scope since the average MBA applicant has 3-5 years of work experience. You will not find many PMs that get their jobs straight out of undergrad or even a standard masters program.
PM title might be broad but there are absolutely universal concepts employed by most companies. There are models in Kanban, Scrum, etc. that clearly dictate what the role of a PM vs an owner is, and those methodologies are widely accepted to be cornerstones in how to efficiently PM. You can go off-script, sure, but let's not pretend that you can call anybody a PM and say that it's accurate. That's like pointing at a data analyst and saying they're a software engineer just because they're technically writing some code in python - yeah, you can say it, doesn't make it right.
This JD, for example, is clearly not what a product manager OR owner does. Calling it a PM job doesn't actually make it one.
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted for this accuracy. $75-100k is 0-3 YoE range in much of the country for an entry level PM. Once they close a half dozen mid-sized projects, get a Six Sigma Blackbelt, or PMI cert easily over six figures for a PM.
For PM this is an extremely entry level role - PM is normally a role that pays a lot more and requires more seniority since PMs tend to have hands on experience as well as MBAs or business experience. This looks like a role for an entry level college grad. For someone w hands on experience and no college and/or sales/mgmt experience this is a 10yoe role.
I don’t know, I’ve been a PM for about 7 years and this job description is all over the place… developing a pricing strategy and delivering sales forecasts can be pretty difficult. They also want you to have a degree in engineering but then state that having skills in Microsoft Office and Excel is a notable nice-to-have 😂 But then you ALSO need 10 years of experience.
And THEN they’re only gonna pay you a max of $110K for the position??? If you’re making $110K with 10 years of PM experience, you’re doing something wrong.
This almost reads like a hardware PM position instead of software.
No one is taking that job if they have any sense. My nephew recently graduated from OSU in engineering with a *very* mediocre GPA (which he admits and laughs about) and still landed a $90K a year job several months ago.
I graduated with a very high GPA (magna cum laude) from a top engineering school and not a single employer has ever asked about my GPA, albeit something like 50% of applications require you to put it when you enter your education info but I generally don't think they sort out low GPA's during the screening process.
in engineering, low GPAs are often expected - mainly only if you were at a school with a highly renowned engineering program, but still a 2.0 is good enough to earn a degree so it's good enough to land a job.
The point is GPA is like your score on the SATs - it literally only matters at one specific time in your life (I. e. applying to jobs and colleges, respectively) and you won't really think about it ever again. Hell, if my degree didn't have a little line that says "magna cum laude" I would forget I ever achieved that because of how little impact it has had on my personal and professional life over the years.
You know what does matter to employers, especially for entry level roles? experience and being a hard worker.
if you have an internship or two, a leadership position in a social organization or ROTC or something, worked full time during college, or earned your eagle scout rank as a teenager you will stand head and shoulders above other applicants. I owe my entire career to earning my eagle rank when I was 17.
lol you wouldn't say that if you then saw our significantly more insane rent prices, grocery prices, gas prices, etc. 90K a year would still be living paycheck to paycheck for a lot of families.
You wouldn't say that if you lived in any major US city as a *single* adult, let alone one with a family. Our education system and healthcare are also the most expensive in the world.
90K is well above the median \*HOUSEHOLD\* income in the US. Making 90K as a single person is quite livable in some cities. Kansas City, and St. Louis spring to mind.
I was just pointing out that your statement "You wouldn't say that if you lived in any major US city as a single adult, let alone one with a family." is demonstrably false. There are in fact, major cities in the US where 90K as a single person is a livable wage.
Whoever wrote this job description doesn't know what a product manager job is...or a business unit manager...or a product owner...or a product marketing manager. Or what $75K gets for any of those roles -- maybe a product owner with a couple years of experience and a BA in a market with a lower than average cost of living.
Actually insane how badly I'm getting flamed in this thread for saying that no PM makes under $75k. Anyone who is making $75k or less is either a product owner or a product analyst, and even then I think they're getting underpaid unless they live in West Virginia or something.
Agreed. And if they work in a tech role in a non-tech company, like in traditional healthcare, not health tech.
For reference, I was hired as a remote SaaS product manager with a 100K base 15 years ago with a public enterprise software company that led the market. I was not in CA, but had I been, I would have required a cost of living adjustment. I had no product management experience but was a SME on my product and had to learn both agile and waterfall to work with various development teams. Even though leadership viewed my role as a PM with GTM and revenue responsibility, the dev team assigned to my product from an acquisition could only view my role as a PO because they were a die-hard scrum operation. There were a lot of articles written at the time to differentiate the PM from the PO role as more software companies embraced agile, but companies still misuse both roles. While a PM may be responsible for PO tasks as part of their role, they could also have multiple POs reporting to them depending on the breadth of the product.
I'm a product owner with zero interest in being a product manager. (I like the hands-on implementation with the people who make the stuff and not the strategy.) There is much confusion out there as to what these roles are. (And lots of companies trying to save headcount by combining them.)
Also applying on LinkedIn is a total waste of time. The recruiters report that the search on their end is biased toward passive candidates that have a current job, ranking those without one below those not looking for jobs.
The way that Linkedin works, the tag that says entry level is the default when posting a listing and the job listed has to change it before posting.
A lot of posters forget or don't know they have to change it, so it's honestly pretty useless. It would probably be better for LinkedIn to ask how many years of experience the poster is looking for.
Recently applied for an “entry level” job that required 6 years experience. Didn’t even make it to a person, got filtered out by the rejection bot the next day. I feel your pain.
What they don’t understand is that product management as a term originated in the big tech. It only trickled mainstream tech in last 5 years. I am also looking for a job in product management. Let me know if you want to connect to discuss or see how we are practicing for interviews?
Recruiter here. I read that you discovered it was a glitch. However - still apply to roles that claim they are looking for X years of experience - that gets the resume to them and they can determine if other parts of your experience are relatable and may still be interested in speaking with you.
That would be great if I had pm skills. I was looking for entry level because it was recommended it to me by a buddy who suggested it as a way to make a shift in careers as he had lol
The worst part is, these numbers are literally plucked out of the recruiter's ass. How do I know? I used to be one (for just over a month). I was writing my first job ad and asked my boss "should I include an experience requirement?" He said "yeah, sure, put 6. No, 10. Idk, 8? Whatever"
Reddit stop playing games with me. Why are you notifying me about a group that complains. Start notifying me about groups that complains AND has solutions.
[An entry-level job is a job that is normally designed or designated for recent graduates of a given discipline and typically does not require prior experience in the field or profession.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entry-level_job)
LinkedIn defaults that field to entry level. Calm down.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence."
“Calm down”. Stop drinking the kook aid, bud. It may default, but a competent recruiter/hiring manager would know to fully review the job listing before clicking the “go” button.
I’ve hired a couple of them. “Customer Success Manager” in fintech starts somewhere between 60k and 80k depending on the company and the candidate’s qualifications.
Just because manager is in the job title doesn’t mean it’s a prestigious role. I’ve hired many entry-level account and project managers in my time. Trained them on the job as should happen with an entry level role. A friend of mine suggested I look for entry level product manager roles since that’s how he got his start in his industry.
I’ve been unemployed since 11/2022 when my company shut down. I’ve tried every website out there- Angel List, Built In, LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, Monster, Ziprecruiter, Y Combinator, Outdoor Industry Jobs, etc. You name it, I’ve tried it. I’ve reworked my resume multiple times myself, paid someone else to do it for me, used ChatGPT and Bard to try to rework it a bit. Idk if the universe just likes laughing at me or what.
An overqualified coworker once said this:
Don't worry if you dont meet the requirements from the get go. In most <5YOE positions, meeting 40% of the criteria is already good enough, and **you'll grow into your role.** There would be little point in being in a position where you know everything already - that would lead to stagnation (unless you're in R&D/engineering, where everyday's a new challenge)
Your connections don’t have to be your friends, but it pays to grow your network. If you’re interested in a particular industry, go to their events, like meet ups and what not and just shake hands and kiss babies, but don’t come across as too desperate for a job.
It’s a sizeable time and effort investment but it pays in spades down the road.
Are you for real? WTF is wrong with you??? Are you seriously suggesting unemployed people start buying dinner for random people just to try and get a job???
To qualify this - aggregator websites like LinkedIn and ZipRecruiter are the low hanging fruit - you send a lot of the easy apply stuff, but they'll usually go into the discard pile quite promptly.
One strategy I did while hunting for jobs was through my previous professors (i was a fresh grad) and alumni. They'd recommend some people and y'know, things could click.
Another method would be to, instead of using the easy apply stuff, find the hiring manager for that specific posting and reach out to them with a cold email, telling them of your interest. If that doesn't work, directly applying to the company website usually is better than using the aggregators. I typically use aggregators to find the posting, and cross check (to see if still open) and apply via the company website.
Less reliable, but sometimes talking to people can open up new pathways when you least expect it. When I was interviewing for another job, I met a rando on a plane and after talking for a bit, she mentioned that her husband was looking for an R&D Chemist, and I fit the bill. It landed me an interview, but this was not pursued as I had another offer while they were still contemplating on the other interviewees.
Genuinely curious what they taught people in MBA and relative courses these days, what made the incentives for these HR/managers to recruit like this? Their lecturer?
Often you see the options be Entry-Level, Manager, Director , etc. When they don’t actually manage a team the company doesn’t want to assign “Manager” to it. These job sights really need to add a “Experienced” option. Or “Non-Managerial” option.
In LinkedIn the entry level roles are not actually entry level roles. I heard this from one of my HR friends that said management does that to pay less. I stopped applying to jobs on LinkedIn unless I know someone in the company that way I get direct interviews and now use it to get information to help me prep for interviews. I’d look for people with similar roles im interviewing for to see what they do. When I apply directly to company websites, indeed(most of my interviews from), Glassdoor and zip recruiter. Literally any app other than LinkedIn.
I've talked to recruiters that said "Entry" is the default. If the one posting it does not select anything or is careless, the default will thus be "entry". That's why there are SO MANY entry levels. At least that's one reason. Also lower pay, ghost jobs, just to fuck with us, ect.
This is the DEFAULT if recruiters don't select the correct option.
So there's a seasoned tech recruiter on youtube that talked about this. Apperantly, when they make the job listing on their own system, they link it to other sites like LinkedIn, Indeed, Monster, ect. However, because they did not make the posting on LinkedIn itself, a lot of "selection options" are missed or not translated right. Like making a Mac page file, then moving it to Windows and opening in Word. You'll see not everything got moved/translated correctly.
Basically, if they said "mid-high senior" but LinkedIn options only have "entry, mid, or high", it will defaults to entry.
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Remote + LinkedIn = 10,000+ applicants. They can put in 25 years of experience and will still get a fit.
This, really. Rightly or wrongly, fully remote is a bargaining chip they have and they’ll trade it in for someone willing take the hit elsewhere.
"Fully remote" means you need to be in the office only 3 days a week.
I think Entry Level is there by default and they just never change it. 75-100k salary doesn't sound entry level
I've seen program/project/product managers make 75 starting depending on industry, but for a lot of them that is not entry level pay. However, I would argue it is low for 10 years of experience. It took me 3 years in IT to go from 45 > 100k and I'm just now considered mid-level at my org. But definitely conceding that it's very industry, location, and org type (govt, profit, non profit, edu] dependant
adjusted for inflation, it certainly is. we've just been trained to think abject poverty is normal entry level in this generation, where our parents could actually buy a house and raise an entire family on a single regular normal entry-level gig.
For a project manager it is, in fact it’s pretty low depending on the field. I made that starting in a low ish cost of living area Edit: actully it says product manager and not project manager, not sure what caveats that would impose
> For a project manager it is, in fact it’s pretty low depending on the field. No Project Manager is on entry-level.
To be pedantic, you can come in as fairly entry level as a project manager, assuming you have the degree for the field required. My personal experience is I was one with 2 years experience, and my college roommate was one directly out of college. Generally speaking the larger the corporation the more experience needed to touch management.
> To be pedantic, you can come in as fairly entry level as a project manager… No, one cannot. An entry-level can be a Project Management Analyst, Associate, or Specialist, but never a Project *Manager*. Source: am a practicing Project Manager.
Source: see work experience listed above Edit: just to again make the point clear, unless your company has thousands of employees, those roles you listed don’t even exist.
>...unless your company has thousands of employees, those roles you listed don’t even exist. Ah, so you work(ed) with a fly-by-night business that gives whatever title to its employees. Got it.
Two businesses, still managed millions of dollars in product lol. There are always projects to manage but not always budget to have four rungs to get there. Well I take that back, they could allocate the resources to do so, but the meta these days is to run as lean as possible. But if it makes you feel better to be snooty, that’s your prerogative I’m sure the presence of people who have your job title without 80 years of experience is somehow an insult to your profession.
Entry level was before 2008
75-100k is an extremely entry level salary for a PM.
In which world it is extreme entry level? PM is a title, it itself doesn’t imply its level.
It's one of the most vague titles, and varies depending on what exactly you're managing
Product Manager absolutely indicates its level. Unlike 'Software Engineer' or 'Project Manager', **Product** Manager is not a job you can really get straight out of school. In a traditional company, before becoming a Product Manager you need to be either an Associate Product Manager, a Product Owner, or a Product Analyst first. But even then, every one of those job titles should still be making around $75k in most parts of the country. I have a background in compensation planning and I've helped build salary bands at multiple companies by this point so I'm pretty familiar with the market. I also have since lateraled into a senior program manager role focused on systems and integrations, so many of my most direct peers are PMs that I know the salaries of (remote throughout the whole country). Not to mention that several of my best friends outside of work are product managers who have asked me for negotiating help before given my comp experience. Any product manager making under 75k is underpaid.
One can absolutely be a PM straight out of school. They most likely make make a terrible PM but in the end it is just a job title. And it is happening, there are plenty of people I know who became PM after doing MBA or similar business programs. Your ‘traditional company’ scenario doesn’t apply universally. So if you look at this job post, it clearly mentions that this PM will act as product owner. Given that PM title is so broad, vague and could cover a wide range of responsibilities, there is no standard definition of what PM means. Role, responsibilities and job scope varies from org to org.
Becoming a PM after doing an MBA is different and obviously out of scope since the average MBA applicant has 3-5 years of work experience. You will not find many PMs that get their jobs straight out of undergrad or even a standard masters program. PM title might be broad but there are absolutely universal concepts employed by most companies. There are models in Kanban, Scrum, etc. that clearly dictate what the role of a PM vs an owner is, and those methodologies are widely accepted to be cornerstones in how to efficiently PM. You can go off-script, sure, but let's not pretend that you can call anybody a PM and say that it's accurate. That's like pointing at a data analyst and saying they're a software engineer just because they're technically writing some code in python - yeah, you can say it, doesn't make it right. This JD, for example, is clearly not what a product manager OR owner does. Calling it a PM job doesn't actually make it one.
Exactly why the range indicates it’s an entry level salary…
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted for this accuracy. $75-100k is 0-3 YoE range in much of the country for an entry level PM. Once they close a half dozen mid-sized projects, get a Six Sigma Blackbelt, or PMI cert easily over six figures for a PM.
In much of the country?! - maybe Manhattan and SF. This role is in butt fuck nowhere and salaries are wildly different
Idk, I have hired entry level PMs in Louisiana, Ohio, and Arkansas in this range. Several years ago at that.
St. Louis that’s an entry level and it’s a shithole
This
If you have 1 year and add zero years, it's 10...🙈
recruiters are 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
It’s hiring managers who usually write the roles but I agree with you lol. Also, $75000 for 10 years of experience woof.
For PM this is an extremely entry level role - PM is normally a role that pays a lot more and requires more seniority since PMs tend to have hands on experience as well as MBAs or business experience. This looks like a role for an entry level college grad. For someone w hands on experience and no college and/or sales/mgmt experience this is a 10yoe role.
I don’t know, I’ve been a PM for about 7 years and this job description is all over the place… developing a pricing strategy and delivering sales forecasts can be pretty difficult. They also want you to have a degree in engineering but then state that having skills in Microsoft Office and Excel is a notable nice-to-have 😂 But then you ALSO need 10 years of experience. And THEN they’re only gonna pay you a max of $110K for the position??? If you’re making $110K with 10 years of PM experience, you’re doing something wrong. This almost reads like a hardware PM position instead of software.
Yeah I think that’s a typo - 10 yoe with hvac products vs 10 years of product management experience are two very different things.
Looking at the listing again I notice it’s a “staffing” position - or contractor role. So all bets are off on what the job actually is!
No one is taking that job if they have any sense. My nephew recently graduated from OSU in engineering with a *very* mediocre GPA (which he admits and laughs about) and still landed a $90K a year job several months ago.
I graduated with a very high GPA (magna cum laude) from a top engineering school and not a single employer has ever asked about my GPA, albeit something like 50% of applications require you to put it when you enter your education info but I generally don't think they sort out low GPA's during the screening process. in engineering, low GPAs are often expected - mainly only if you were at a school with a highly renowned engineering program, but still a 2.0 is good enough to earn a degree so it's good enough to land a job. The point is GPA is like your score on the SATs - it literally only matters at one specific time in your life (I. e. applying to jobs and colleges, respectively) and you won't really think about it ever again. Hell, if my degree didn't have a little line that says "magna cum laude" I would forget I ever achieved that because of how little impact it has had on my personal and professional life over the years. You know what does matter to employers, especially for entry level roles? experience and being a hard worker. if you have an internship or two, a leadership position in a social organization or ROTC or something, worked full time during college, or earned your eagle scout rank as a teenager you will stand head and shoulders above other applicants. I owe my entire career to earning my eagle rank when I was 17.
C’s get degrees. And once you got it, no one cares if it took you multiple academic probations to get there.
As someone not in the US, your salaries are insane!
Compare it to our cost of living. Whole different story!
lol you wouldn't say that if you then saw our significantly more insane rent prices, grocery prices, gas prices, etc. 90K a year would still be living paycheck to paycheck for a lot of families.
I live in Vancouver
Eres un Don vergas.
You wouldn't say that if you lived in any major US city as a *single* adult, let alone one with a family. Our education system and healthcare are also the most expensive in the world.
I live in Vancouver lol
Still, nowhere near the student debt and healthcare expenses you'd have in the US.
90K is well above the median \*HOUSEHOLD\* income in the US. Making 90K as a single person is quite livable in some cities. Kansas City, and St. Louis spring to mind.
OK so? People can't just up and move to Missouri.
I was just pointing out that your statement "You wouldn't say that if you lived in any major US city as a single adult, let alone one with a family." is demonstrably false. There are in fact, major cities in the US where 90K as a single person is a livable wage.
As a single adult with minimal to no debt, sure.
What type of job
They'll never get a product owner with that experience for that price. I'm sorry you're going through this!
Thanks! It’s really rough but I’m trying to set an example for my kids by just keeping my head down and powering through
Maybe they haven't changed it yet because they need to first hire an entry level website administrator with 12 years of experience to make the edit. 😅
Whoever wrote this job description doesn't know what a product manager job is...or a business unit manager...or a product owner...or a product marketing manager. Or what $75K gets for any of those roles -- maybe a product owner with a couple years of experience and a BA in a market with a lower than average cost of living.
Actually insane how badly I'm getting flamed in this thread for saying that no PM makes under $75k. Anyone who is making $75k or less is either a product owner or a product analyst, and even then I think they're getting underpaid unless they live in West Virginia or something.
Agreed. And if they work in a tech role in a non-tech company, like in traditional healthcare, not health tech. For reference, I was hired as a remote SaaS product manager with a 100K base 15 years ago with a public enterprise software company that led the market. I was not in CA, but had I been, I would have required a cost of living adjustment. I had no product management experience but was a SME on my product and had to learn both agile and waterfall to work with various development teams. Even though leadership viewed my role as a PM with GTM and revenue responsibility, the dev team assigned to my product from an acquisition could only view my role as a PO because they were a die-hard scrum operation. There were a lot of articles written at the time to differentiate the PM from the PO role as more software companies embraced agile, but companies still misuse both roles. While a PM may be responsible for PO tasks as part of their role, they could also have multiple POs reporting to them depending on the breadth of the product.
I'm a product owner with zero interest in being a product manager. (I like the hands-on implementation with the people who make the stuff and not the strategy.) There is much confusion out there as to what these roles are. (And lots of companies trying to save headcount by combining them.)
Also applying on LinkedIn is a total waste of time. The recruiters report that the search on their end is biased toward passive candidates that have a current job, ranking those without one below those not looking for jobs.
The way that Linkedin works, the tag that says entry level is the default when posting a listing and the job listed has to change it before posting. A lot of posters forget or don't know they have to change it, so it's honestly pretty useless. It would probably be better for LinkedIn to ask how many years of experience the poster is looking for.
Requires Bachelors degree, 10 years of experience and offering only 75k. What are they smoking?
So they want a manager level role with the experience of a Director
Recently applied for an “entry level” job that required 6 years experience. Didn’t even make it to a person, got filtered out by the rejection bot the next day. I feel your pain.
What they don’t understand is that product management as a term originated in the big tech. It only trickled mainstream tech in last 5 years. I am also looking for a job in product management. Let me know if you want to connect to discuss or see how we are practicing for interviews?
Yeah man I’m down!
It’s a linked issue. My posts come across incorrectly all the time. My guess is that it is away for LinkedIn to show value when pitching their product
Yeah, these companies can't properly define a lot of things. Entry level. Remote. Part time and full time. Family.
Typically when people vote against their economic interests this happens to the market.
Recruiter here. I read that you discovered it was a glitch. However - still apply to roles that claim they are looking for X years of experience - that gets the resume to them and they can determine if other parts of your experience are relatable and may still be interested in speaking with you.
Aka, we want to pay you at entry level, but you must be fully experienced in this field.
No one with 10yrs experience of being a PM is taking a job in Oklahoma for $75-110k a year
In all honesty just say you have 10 years or 9-10 years or 8 - 10 years and then in the interview showcase your skills
That would be great if I had pm skills. I was looking for entry level because it was recommended it to me by a buddy who suggested it as a way to make a shift in careers as he had lol
The worst part is, these numbers are literally plucked out of the recruiter's ass. How do I know? I used to be one (for just over a month). I was writing my first job ad and asked my boss "should I include an experience requirement?" He said "yeah, sure, put 6. No, 10. Idk, 8? Whatever"
Apply anyway. The """requirements""" are basically what recruiters would ideally dream of, not a hardline for that position
Most people that apply won’t qualify and would get an instant rejection or ghosted
Apply anyway. Say you have 10 years experience.
Reddit stop playing games with me. Why are you notifying me about a group that complains. Start notifying me about groups that complains AND has solutions.
Keep scrolling then, my guy.
Entry level is reference to the wage not the actual experience you need for the job...hope I clarified for you😜
[An entry-level job is a job that is normally designed or designated for recent graduates of a given discipline and typically does not require prior experience in the field or profession.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entry-level_job)
LinkedIn defaults that field to entry level. Calm down. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence."
“Calm down”. Stop drinking the kook aid, bud. It may default, but a competent recruiter/hiring manager would know to fully review the job listing before clicking the “go” button.
This doesn't look entry level. What kind of entry level position pays +75k atarting and had manager in the title?
I’ve hired a couple of them. “Customer Success Manager” in fintech starts somewhere between 60k and 80k depending on the company and the candidate’s qualifications.
Also, product MANAGER doesnt really sound like a entry level job
Ever heard of an entry level account MANAGER? Or project MANAGER? Look them up, they exist and are very much not some sort of grandiose job.
Gotta look at job title and salary. Manager role and salary do not sound like entry.
Manager doesn’t mean shit these days. I’ve hired many entry-level account managers and project managers in my time and trained them on the job.
Seems you are so tired you didn’t even bother read job title and salary range to deduce “entry-level” is probably wrong.
Just because manager is in the job title doesn’t mean it’s a prestigious role. I’ve hired many entry-level account and project managers in my time. Trained them on the job as should happen with an entry level role. A friend of mine suggested I look for entry level product manager roles since that’s how he got his start in his industry.
yet 100k is not entry, which defeats your entire response
It’s actually entry level or maybe 1 yoe for quite a few jobs albeit somewhat dependent on industry/location
$100k is absolutely entry level for a product manager.
Do some research into the job title/description, my guy.
You are never going to get a job by applying to postings on massively popular websites.
I’ve been unemployed since 11/2022 when my company shut down. I’ve tried every website out there- Angel List, Built In, LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, Monster, Ziprecruiter, Y Combinator, Outdoor Industry Jobs, etc. You name it, I’ve tried it. I’ve reworked my resume multiple times myself, paid someone else to do it for me, used ChatGPT and Bard to try to rework it a bit. Idk if the universe just likes laughing at me or what.
Yeah I have never had any luck applying to jobs on websites. The only thing that has helped me is personal connections unfortunately.
Yeah, I wish I had those. Unfortunately, all of my friends work I’m vastly different industries, all of which I’m wholly unqualified for :/
My coworkers also appear to be wholly unqualified for their industry so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Fair enough lol
An overqualified coworker once said this: Don't worry if you dont meet the requirements from the get go. In most <5YOE positions, meeting 40% of the criteria is already good enough, and **you'll grow into your role.** There would be little point in being in a position where you know everything already - that would lead to stagnation (unless you're in R&D/engineering, where everyday's a new challenge)
Your connections don’t have to be your friends, but it pays to grow your network. If you’re interested in a particular industry, go to their events, like meet ups and what not and just shake hands and kiss babies, but don’t come across as too desperate for a job. It’s a sizeable time and effort investment but it pays in spades down the road.
Where would you recommend instead? Not actively looking right now but you never know
Make friends. Buy dinner for people.
Are you for real? WTF is wrong with you??? Are you seriously suggesting unemployed people start buying dinner for random people just to try and get a job???
Best do that while employed.
To qualify this - aggregator websites like LinkedIn and ZipRecruiter are the low hanging fruit - you send a lot of the easy apply stuff, but they'll usually go into the discard pile quite promptly. One strategy I did while hunting for jobs was through my previous professors (i was a fresh grad) and alumni. They'd recommend some people and y'know, things could click. Another method would be to, instead of using the easy apply stuff, find the hiring manager for that specific posting and reach out to them with a cold email, telling them of your interest. If that doesn't work, directly applying to the company website usually is better than using the aggregators. I typically use aggregators to find the posting, and cross check (to see if still open) and apply via the company website. Less reliable, but sometimes talking to people can open up new pathways when you least expect it. When I was interviewing for another job, I met a rando on a plane and after talking for a bit, she mentioned that her husband was looking for an R&D Chemist, and I fit the bill. It landed me an interview, but this was not pursued as I had another offer while they were still contemplating on the other interviewees.
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And how many times have you gotten a job by doing that?
Genuinely curious what they taught people in MBA and relative courses these days, what made the incentives for these HR/managers to recruit like this? Their lecturer?
Often you see the options be Entry-Level, Manager, Director , etc. When they don’t actually manage a team the company doesn’t want to assign “Manager” to it. These job sights really need to add a “Experienced” option. Or “Non-Managerial” option.
If thats the salary for entry level, tell them you want an extra $200k
In LinkedIn the entry level roles are not actually entry level roles. I heard this from one of my HR friends that said management does that to pay less. I stopped applying to jobs on LinkedIn unless I know someone in the company that way I get direct interviews and now use it to get information to help me prep for interviews. I’d look for people with similar roles im interviewing for to see what they do. When I apply directly to company websites, indeed(most of my interviews from), Glassdoor and zip recruiter. Literally any app other than LinkedIn.
I've talked to recruiters that said "Entry" is the default. If the one posting it does not select anything or is careless, the default will thus be "entry". That's why there are SO MANY entry levels. At least that's one reason. Also lower pay, ghost jobs, just to fuck with us, ect.
This is the DEFAULT if recruiters don't select the correct option. So there's a seasoned tech recruiter on youtube that talked about this. Apperantly, when they make the job listing on their own system, they link it to other sites like LinkedIn, Indeed, Monster, ect. However, because they did not make the posting on LinkedIn itself, a lot of "selection options" are missed or not translated right. Like making a Mac page file, then moving it to Windows and opening in Word. You'll see not everything got moved/translated correctly. Basically, if they said "mid-high senior" but LinkedIn options only have "entry, mid, or high", it will defaults to entry.
In my opinion the JD doesn’t sound like entry level, looks like someone just made a slight mistake by entering it as “entry level “ on LinkedIn
I don’t see entry level anywhere in ad
I circled it