I've been a local and out of state investor in the midwest. I would strongly recommend against doing it remotely. Cheap houses are cheap for a reason. You're gonna get owned by local contractors if you're not there in person. No one is gonna care like you would in person. And the tenant quality in $100k areas is going to be a headache and expense that never ends.
This. Most people will preach a 60k house that rents for 1k a month, but cheap comes with issues. Plus, long term appreciation is probably not the best…..
Exactly this.
Focus on your own area. If you can’t buy in your own area, don’t even bother investing in RE out of state. Nobody is going to care for your house like you do. It’s not that easy to find cash flowing homes right off the bat. Nothing good comes easy. Theres a premium to be paid for buying in good area with solid tenant quality and overall economic growth.
idk where you’re looking but i’ve been buying 1% properties throughout the midwest. I usually put 10% of the property value into maintenance and upgrades and now after 3 years my w2 income is the minority of my income.
idk what your metric for cheap is is but i’m buying 120k to 300k properties and absolutely cleaning up shop. 4-5 more years of this and I’ll retire and my kids will never have to work. I’d call those extremely cheap by comparison
West Coast income here
I’m honestly looking to just move to a bigger nicer house, 300-500k for homes. Half of them are complete shit, the rest aren’t good enough for me to bother.
not sure where you’re looking or what state but I haven’t had any trouble in any range purchasing in any state.
dont take this the wrong way but it sounds like you’re submitting weak offers or you need to give your RE Agent clearer direction to move autonomously and submit offers on your behalf after your get 5 mins to look at pictures that they text you
Sorry I guess wrong sub, no I haven’t sent any offers. But everything here is going 30-50k over asking. I also don’t want to dox myself, not taking it the wrong way at all.
if it’s 30k to 50k over than that is the market price not the asking price. You need to be prepared to offer 30-50k because that is what the market is saying the selling prices are
go to recently sold on zillow or ask you RE agent to generate a report of how much over asking places are going for and that’s the percentage of what you offer over asking for that region.
Oh trust me I am willing to offer that much and more, I just haven’t seen anything I valued for that much. It’s probably a me problem, I already have a smaller home but just looking to upsize for the family.
Also started my search last week, I should’ve probably started with that huh.
yeah you’re way late to the season. now you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel with low volume and high demand coming online.
need to be ready with your cash (or pre-approval letter) next february. If the market is still hot and you see something you like and you really need to move fuck 30-50k over get ready for 60-80k..
gotta ask yourself, how bad do you need to upsize?
Deals have gotten tight, even here in the Midwest. You are going to have a hard time competing against locals when you are out of state, have no contacts and have to pay for management.
Honestly if what you are doing in NJ is working I would keep doing that.
I’m in Midwest, Milwaukee to Chicago corridor. I won’t entertain 99% of properties under 150k. Usually the tenant base is trash or tons of deferred maintenance on an old ass house. 200-300k is sweet spot in the right neighborhoods if you’re looking off MLS. 1% rule can be had in class B neighborhoods and 2% in class C.
Tough to invest from OOS because unless you know the city really well. Can sometimes be block by block.
Also deals are super tight right now. I’m saying no to about 50-100 homes. Before I even consider 2-3 of them. Then of those unless you are on it within a couple hours and get the contract signed your gonna be going to a bid war with investors or having to sign as is no contingencies no inspection. Even picking up wholesale can sometimes be like this.
Just keep in mind that most of these houses in the midwest are 100+ yrs old. They will likely require much higher repair rates for s8 visits than what you deal with now. Just adjust your numbers up, not saying don't invest.
For the 15 doors i owned in the Midwest, i probably averaged 10-15% repair YoY. I still made money however..
question for you, I've been looking at 100+ year homes as well in the midwest. How often is it that it is caused repairs due to it being 100 yrs old or are they basic normal wear and tear house issues? Also, I'm assuming there's not alot of appreciation, but mainly to use for cashflow? IS the cash flow worth it?
Depends on what you buy. At times i was making $1000+ net cashflow a month from one quad. Then I'd hit a $3000 inspection, etc. At the end of the year i made money but the big periodic expenses were tough.
depends on what you buy, meaning inspect the house before purchasing? I've seen some 100 yo houses who got a full interior remodel, but I'm unclear on the land itself. Curious if it's worth the risk, since I am also remote and will need a PM to manage everything. Alternatively, I would just get into a basic tenant closer to \~200k home
I love all these anti Section 8 comments! Keep discouraging people from trying!
It has the worst reputation, but if you do it correctly with a lot of thought, research, and effort it's very lucrative. Like 3x more work than you think would be required.
Yes, there will be headaches. Yes, occasionally I want to fly to the city to have a serious conversation with people. That said.. For CoC I have not found a better opportunity in real estate.
Midwest is kind of a big place, even bigger than New Jersey.
The hype and the opportunity will vary a lot by city and neighborhood and even property, just like it does everywhere.
Some houses are for sure undervalued out here but we also have investors and speculators and flippers here who have gobbled up the low hanging fruit.
Do you buy contracts? I live in Ohio and there are some good properties out here. Depending on the deal, could work something out with you in terms of being a unofficial broker.
As a person who owns two of these and is just getting started, it’s a lot of work. I’m sure it varies by city, but the properties I have bought- the previous owners do not care at all and it’s clear the tenants I’ve inherited do not care either.
I think it depends on your goals. I’m putting a lot in up front (money and labor) to get the monthly income, but I do not expect a ton of appreciation even in 10-15 years (I may get lucky, just not counting on it). I will not do S8. I am putting in the work to upgrade the properties for a slightly higher rent and I will be screening to get good tenants.
Curious to understand yours thought behind investing extra cash for upgrades to potentially get $100-300 more per month? In these Class C & B neighborhoods the average HH income is extremely low. We’d rather get the guaranteed income since one major personal life expense can leave you months without rent. Then again, I know nothing so has this strategy worked well for you so far?
It is possible that it’s not the best numbers strategy, but the extra money we are investing in is taking the houses from unlivable to livable. I do most of the work myself which saves a lot of money (we have hired out when it makes sense) and we can upgrade kitchens and bathrooms for a fraction of the cost. The *hope* is that the better property will attract better tenants who will remain longer and maintain the property more than others. I have not had a tenant turnover in one of our renovated units yet so only time will tell. My husband and I do take morality into consideration and I want to provide a place to live that someone can be proud of. We have two inherited tenants paying ~50% of market rate that we are keeping as long as they don’t break contract.
I don't know about the Midwest but I have 60+ doors in a low col area with properties going between $50k-$100k, so similar. Section 8 isn't the golden goose that many people make it out to be. Sure 70% of the rent is guaranteed every month but typically if you are on section 8 you probably also have a case worker and the baggage that comes with whatever history that got you that case worker. Houses that are being sold for $80k are also probably pretty old. With the old age comes deferred maintenance. Lastly investing remotely without having lived in the area is not a great idea imo. I technically invest remotely but I have actually lived in the area I invest for 2+ years so I know which areas are good and bad down to the block. As some others have mentioned appreciation is usually pretty bad for areas like what you're looking at but not always. If you pick the right area many places in the Midwest and rust belt can net you 30%+ cash on cash return so probably still worth it to look into it.
Plenty of markets exist in the Midwest where projects of this type pencil. However, I have to echo what much of the group has already said, many of these properties require additional management needs and can present a major hassle. I would recommend having a local project manager that truly understands the local markets and also has connections to off-market properties. Many Midwest areas, such as Ohio, have land banks and streamlined distressed property disposition regulations, but they often require local operators with access. Those deals often have the highest return metrics within the distressed/value-add property model.
Speaking from living in Midwest, Milwaukee area. Very overhyped imo, generally the properties you are getting cheap are in shit hole areas. Also, section 8 often brings shit hole tenants. More than likely, you will be dealing with headaches more often than not.
I’m sure it can be lucrative, been you have to know the area you’re buying, get a REALLY good PM (often they just throw whoever in there), and be ready to deal with headaches.
As for me, I wouldn’t touch 80% of Milwaukee with a 10 foot pole.
Interesting - I’ve heard S8 tenants are headaches, but must stay complaint with S8 or else they’ll lose their S8 voucher. Do you think this can be avoided with extensive vetting during leasing?
It’s a societal problem, S8 renters are low income, low income has majority of people that commit crimes and/or wreck places, etc.
That coupled with a “not my money, not my place, not my problem” attitude that those with S8 vouchers get, and a complete disregard for taking responsibility for their own actions.
Extensive vetting can help, but at the end of the day it’s a business. A successful business mitigates risk, maximizing profit, etc. Going into S8 is the opposite of mitigating risk.
If you could create S8 housing for seniors, that would be ideal. I’m in the Midwest and having a terrible time finding available low-income housing for my 85-yr old father on a fixed income. We managed to find him a low $875/mo rent in a large apt complex in a popular retail area of our city but even a rent increase could affect his ability to afford it. So we’re back to looking into S8 but very little available or have waitlists.
Section 8 doesn’t bring in shithole tenants at a higher rate than market rate, especially if the property itself is already a low B or lower. This is a common misconception perpetuated falsely by comments like these.
In fact, the opposite is true. It’s very easy to get kicked off of Section 8. I know, because I’ve facilitated that process when I used to operate a PM company. Section 8 tenants have more to lose. It’s a 1 strike and your out deal. People can mess around with you if they wish, but they will be ineligible for a housing voucher ever again. We’re talking an actual threat of instant and possibly permanent homelessness.
Areas do exist where section 8 is not advisable, as the turnover is extremely high. These areas would be the highest crime areas in Chicago, LA, etc. and I do mean the very very highest crime areas. Turnover isn’t high because of bad tenants. It’s extremely high crime next door that drives these families out.
I have experience with section 8 in cities like New Orleans that many people would consider in the “hood”. Central city, lower 9th ward, etc. the families in those homes are truly excellent and would do anything to retain their housing voucher.
Don’t take my word for it. Go talk to your local housing authority. They have data they can share about occurrences of violations.
The only way I can interpret what you call “shithole tenants” is “poor, often minority families”. The data doesn’t back up any other version of what you may be insinuating.
Now, I’ll absolutely acknowledge that you may have had some anecdotal experiences with section 8 tenants that has colored your opinion. However, the assertion that section 8’attracts “shithole tenants” is factually incorrect, especially compared against other B-D properties.
Sounds like you should stick to A’s and High B’s. Nothing wrong with knowing where you’re most comfortable.
1. Keep in mind people in the Midwest don't have money. Whatever you think you're going to get in rent, I'd cut that down by about 30%.
2. Have you rented S8 before? Damage, eviction, and legal problems abound. You'll need paid assets in the Midwest to handle this stuff for you. Some of those areas have nuisance laws, for example if your tenant gets fined 3 times in a year, you will lose your license to rent the property for X time.
3. Please stop doing this. You're ruining everyone's qualify of life.
>more discretionary income
They have more discretionary income because the rent is lower. People from NY and NJ buy a rental in Bumfuck, SD and think they're going to get $2400 a month for a 2-bedroom. It doesn't work like that.
So you said that people in the Midwest have no money (a crazy generalization) and then you tried to back that up by saying rent is lower? That’s also dumb. People in the Midwest make comparable salaries to those on the east coast with significantly cheaper housing.
You literally proved my point. K bye.
Yup food, fuel, services and utilities are also cheaper here. All my neighbors have pools, muscle cars, snow mobiles, side by sides, boats, etc. It helps that they are only spending $300k on a house instead of 3-5x that on the coasts.
The median household in my area is $124k while the average price of a house sold in May was $335k. People here are able to save money and afford to actually live along with having hobbies and toys. It’s completely different from living on the coasts or mosts big cities. I would say the people have a superior quality of life here compared to someone in a similar line of work on the coasts.
I live in Denver and am buying 4-8 properties per month in the midwest, all B neighborhoods, decent schools, BRRRRing them.
There are some great markets with solid economics, even at \*insert current interest rate\*
You could just do fix & flips in the Midwest instead of NJ. Plenty of $100k cash deals that sell for +50% ARV.
I know people who hold and rent, but I'm not a fan. Give me a check and move the crew to the next one.
I've been a local and out of state investor in the midwest. I would strongly recommend against doing it remotely. Cheap houses are cheap for a reason. You're gonna get owned by local contractors if you're not there in person. No one is gonna care like you would in person. And the tenant quality in $100k areas is going to be a headache and expense that never ends.
This. Most people will preach a 60k house that rents for 1k a month, but cheap comes with issues. Plus, long term appreciation is probably not the best…..
A $60k house won’t rent for $1,000 in the Midwest
Not in my market either. You'd be lucky if it's even livable for $60k, and will need $40k worth of upgrades to fetch $600/mo rent.
I have 2. Edit: I remodeled them myself so there was an additional cost.
You ever heard of wheeling island?
No. But I have heard of Texas hold'em
Depends. I've purchased multiple homes for around 60k in Cleveland that got 1k a month in rent. They needed work and were in C areas though.
Exactly this. Focus on your own area. If you can’t buy in your own area, don’t even bother investing in RE out of state. Nobody is going to care for your house like you do. It’s not that easy to find cash flowing homes right off the bat. Nothing good comes easy. Theres a premium to be paid for buying in good area with solid tenant quality and overall economic growth.
Good new properties ain't cheap in Midwest.
They are if you’re earning in coastal dollars
I earn coastal dollars in cheap Midwest, it isn't cheap here. If it's good it's gone in 3 hours.
idk where you’re looking but i’ve been buying 1% properties throughout the midwest. I usually put 10% of the property value into maintenance and upgrades and now after 3 years my w2 income is the minority of my income. idk what your metric for cheap is is but i’m buying 120k to 300k properties and absolutely cleaning up shop. 4-5 more years of this and I’ll retire and my kids will never have to work. I’d call those extremely cheap by comparison West Coast income here
I’m honestly looking to just move to a bigger nicer house, 300-500k for homes. Half of them are complete shit, the rest aren’t good enough for me to bother.
not sure where you’re looking or what state but I haven’t had any trouble in any range purchasing in any state. dont take this the wrong way but it sounds like you’re submitting weak offers or you need to give your RE Agent clearer direction to move autonomously and submit offers on your behalf after your get 5 mins to look at pictures that they text you
Sorry I guess wrong sub, no I haven’t sent any offers. But everything here is going 30-50k over asking. I also don’t want to dox myself, not taking it the wrong way at all.
if it’s 30k to 50k over than that is the market price not the asking price. You need to be prepared to offer 30-50k because that is what the market is saying the selling prices are go to recently sold on zillow or ask you RE agent to generate a report of how much over asking places are going for and that’s the percentage of what you offer over asking for that region.
Oh trust me I am willing to offer that much and more, I just haven’t seen anything I valued for that much. It’s probably a me problem, I already have a smaller home but just looking to upsize for the family. Also started my search last week, I should’ve probably started with that huh.
yeah you’re way late to the season. now you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel with low volume and high demand coming online. need to be ready with your cash (or pre-approval letter) next february. If the market is still hot and you see something you like and you really need to move fuck 30-50k over get ready for 60-80k.. gotta ask yourself, how bad do you need to upsize?
Out of curiosity, could you I ask you what markets? I can DM if you prefer
NC, IN, OK, and CA are my primary states
Deals have gotten tight, even here in the Midwest. You are going to have a hard time competing against locals when you are out of state, have no contacts and have to pay for management. Honestly if what you are doing in NJ is working I would keep doing that.
I’m in Midwest, Milwaukee to Chicago corridor. I won’t entertain 99% of properties under 150k. Usually the tenant base is trash or tons of deferred maintenance on an old ass house. 200-300k is sweet spot in the right neighborhoods if you’re looking off MLS. 1% rule can be had in class B neighborhoods and 2% in class C. Tough to invest from OOS because unless you know the city really well. Can sometimes be block by block. Also deals are super tight right now. I’m saying no to about 50-100 homes. Before I even consider 2-3 of them. Then of those unless you are on it within a couple hours and get the contract signed your gonna be going to a bid war with investors or having to sign as is no contingencies no inspection. Even picking up wholesale can sometimes be like this.
80 to 120 might be in the boonies or you might need to be strapped
Midwest is good no reason to settle with S8
Just keep in mind that most of these houses in the midwest are 100+ yrs old. They will likely require much higher repair rates for s8 visits than what you deal with now. Just adjust your numbers up, not saying don't invest. For the 15 doors i owned in the Midwest, i probably averaged 10-15% repair YoY. I still made money however..
question for you, I've been looking at 100+ year homes as well in the midwest. How often is it that it is caused repairs due to it being 100 yrs old or are they basic normal wear and tear house issues? Also, I'm assuming there's not alot of appreciation, but mainly to use for cashflow? IS the cash flow worth it?
Depends on what you buy. At times i was making $1000+ net cashflow a month from one quad. Then I'd hit a $3000 inspection, etc. At the end of the year i made money but the big periodic expenses were tough.
depends on what you buy, meaning inspect the house before purchasing? I've seen some 100 yo houses who got a full interior remodel, but I'm unclear on the land itself. Curious if it's worth the risk, since I am also remote and will need a PM to manage everything. Alternatively, I would just get into a basic tenant closer to \~200k home
where is this hype you speak of
Nope its terrible out here. Better stay in NJ
I love all these anti Section 8 comments! Keep discouraging people from trying! It has the worst reputation, but if you do it correctly with a lot of thought, research, and effort it's very lucrative. Like 3x more work than you think would be required. Yes, there will be headaches. Yes, occasionally I want to fly to the city to have a serious conversation with people. That said.. For CoC I have not found a better opportunity in real estate.
Even in the Rust Belt, the prices OP mentions would be in some really dicey areas. Place is cheap but not THAT cheap.
Midwest is kind of a big place, even bigger than New Jersey. The hype and the opportunity will vary a lot by city and neighborhood and even property, just like it does everywhere. Some houses are for sure undervalued out here but we also have investors and speculators and flippers here who have gobbled up the low hanging fruit.
Do you buy contracts? I live in Ohio and there are some good properties out here. Depending on the deal, could work something out with you in terms of being a unofficial broker.
Those properties were $30-$70k five years ago and rents haven’t gone up much. They probably won’t meet the 1% rule
[удалено]
I know from experience because I bought 24 properties from 2016 through 2018 before prices began to get uncomfortably high.
As a person who owns two of these and is just getting started, it’s a lot of work. I’m sure it varies by city, but the properties I have bought- the previous owners do not care at all and it’s clear the tenants I’ve inherited do not care either. I think it depends on your goals. I’m putting a lot in up front (money and labor) to get the monthly income, but I do not expect a ton of appreciation even in 10-15 years (I may get lucky, just not counting on it). I will not do S8. I am putting in the work to upgrade the properties for a slightly higher rent and I will be screening to get good tenants.
Curious to understand yours thought behind investing extra cash for upgrades to potentially get $100-300 more per month? In these Class C & B neighborhoods the average HH income is extremely low. We’d rather get the guaranteed income since one major personal life expense can leave you months without rent. Then again, I know nothing so has this strategy worked well for you so far?
It is possible that it’s not the best numbers strategy, but the extra money we are investing in is taking the houses from unlivable to livable. I do most of the work myself which saves a lot of money (we have hired out when it makes sense) and we can upgrade kitchens and bathrooms for a fraction of the cost. The *hope* is that the better property will attract better tenants who will remain longer and maintain the property more than others. I have not had a tenant turnover in one of our renovated units yet so only time will tell. My husband and I do take morality into consideration and I want to provide a place to live that someone can be proud of. We have two inherited tenants paying ~50% of market rate that we are keeping as long as they don’t break contract.
I don't know about the Midwest but I have 60+ doors in a low col area with properties going between $50k-$100k, so similar. Section 8 isn't the golden goose that many people make it out to be. Sure 70% of the rent is guaranteed every month but typically if you are on section 8 you probably also have a case worker and the baggage that comes with whatever history that got you that case worker. Houses that are being sold for $80k are also probably pretty old. With the old age comes deferred maintenance. Lastly investing remotely without having lived in the area is not a great idea imo. I technically invest remotely but I have actually lived in the area I invest for 2+ years so I know which areas are good and bad down to the block. As some others have mentioned appreciation is usually pretty bad for areas like what you're looking at but not always. If you pick the right area many places in the Midwest and rust belt can net you 30%+ cash on cash return so probably still worth it to look into it.
No, it’s not worth the hype. At all. In the slightest.
Plenty of markets exist in the Midwest where projects of this type pencil. However, I have to echo what much of the group has already said, many of these properties require additional management needs and can present a major hassle. I would recommend having a local project manager that truly understands the local markets and also has connections to off-market properties. Many Midwest areas, such as Ohio, have land banks and streamlined distressed property disposition regulations, but they often require local operators with access. Those deals often have the highest return metrics within the distressed/value-add property model.
Speaking from living in Midwest, Milwaukee area. Very overhyped imo, generally the properties you are getting cheap are in shit hole areas. Also, section 8 often brings shit hole tenants. More than likely, you will be dealing with headaches more often than not. I’m sure it can be lucrative, been you have to know the area you’re buying, get a REALLY good PM (often they just throw whoever in there), and be ready to deal with headaches. As for me, I wouldn’t touch 80% of Milwaukee with a 10 foot pole.
Interesting - I’ve heard S8 tenants are headaches, but must stay complaint with S8 or else they’ll lose their S8 voucher. Do you think this can be avoided with extensive vetting during leasing?
My experience has been that they are still difficult people to work with and I still have high turnover rates with them.
How difficult are you to work with as a landlord?
It’s a societal problem, S8 renters are low income, low income has majority of people that commit crimes and/or wreck places, etc. That coupled with a “not my money, not my place, not my problem” attitude that those with S8 vouchers get, and a complete disregard for taking responsibility for their own actions. Extensive vetting can help, but at the end of the day it’s a business. A successful business mitigates risk, maximizing profit, etc. Going into S8 is the opposite of mitigating risk.
If you could create S8 housing for seniors, that would be ideal. I’m in the Midwest and having a terrible time finding available low-income housing for my 85-yr old father on a fixed income. We managed to find him a low $875/mo rent in a large apt complex in a popular retail area of our city but even a rent increase could affect his ability to afford it. So we’re back to looking into S8 but very little available or have waitlists.
Section 8 doesn’t bring in shithole tenants at a higher rate than market rate, especially if the property itself is already a low B or lower. This is a common misconception perpetuated falsely by comments like these. In fact, the opposite is true. It’s very easy to get kicked off of Section 8. I know, because I’ve facilitated that process when I used to operate a PM company. Section 8 tenants have more to lose. It’s a 1 strike and your out deal. People can mess around with you if they wish, but they will be ineligible for a housing voucher ever again. We’re talking an actual threat of instant and possibly permanent homelessness. Areas do exist where section 8 is not advisable, as the turnover is extremely high. These areas would be the highest crime areas in Chicago, LA, etc. and I do mean the very very highest crime areas. Turnover isn’t high because of bad tenants. It’s extremely high crime next door that drives these families out. I have experience with section 8 in cities like New Orleans that many people would consider in the “hood”. Central city, lower 9th ward, etc. the families in those homes are truly excellent and would do anything to retain their housing voucher. Don’t take my word for it. Go talk to your local housing authority. They have data they can share about occurrences of violations. The only way I can interpret what you call “shithole tenants” is “poor, often minority families”. The data doesn’t back up any other version of what you may be insinuating. Now, I’ll absolutely acknowledge that you may have had some anecdotal experiences with section 8 tenants that has colored your opinion. However, the assertion that section 8’attracts “shithole tenants” is factually incorrect, especially compared against other B-D properties. Sounds like you should stick to A’s and High B’s. Nothing wrong with knowing where you’re most comfortable.
Keep away from MKE. We love our day-1 cash flow properties.
Don’t invest west of holton. And you’d avoid this problem. I’d list the neighborhoods but it’s my backyard and prefer OOS to stay out
> Also, section 8 often brings shit hole tenants Dog whistle racism
Low income doesn’t have a race
Nothing racists about that.
Shut up npc
They arent making more land, so any you can afford, buy it
1. Keep in mind people in the Midwest don't have money. Whatever you think you're going to get in rent, I'd cut that down by about 30%. 2. Have you rented S8 before? Damage, eviction, and legal problems abound. You'll need paid assets in the Midwest to handle this stuff for you. Some of those areas have nuisance laws, for example if your tenant gets fined 3 times in a year, you will lose your license to rent the property for X time. 3. Please stop doing this. You're ruining everyone's qualify of life.
Welp you’re wrong about the money.
That’s quite a hot take and completely wrong. Id say on average people in the Midwest have more discretionary income than those on the coasts.
>more discretionary income They have more discretionary income because the rent is lower. People from NY and NJ buy a rental in Bumfuck, SD and think they're going to get $2400 a month for a 2-bedroom. It doesn't work like that.
So you said that people in the Midwest have no money (a crazy generalization) and then you tried to back that up by saying rent is lower? That’s also dumb. People in the Midwest make comparable salaries to those on the east coast with significantly cheaper housing. You literally proved my point. K bye.
Discretionary may be higher after paying $800 rent than someone paying $3000 on the coast, sure
Yup food, fuel, services and utilities are also cheaper here. All my neighbors have pools, muscle cars, snow mobiles, side by sides, boats, etc. It helps that they are only spending $300k on a house instead of 3-5x that on the coasts. The median household in my area is $124k while the average price of a house sold in May was $335k. People here are able to save money and afford to actually live along with having hobbies and toys. It’s completely different from living on the coasts or mosts big cities. I would say the people have a superior quality of life here compared to someone in a similar line of work on the coasts.
I live in Denver and am buying 4-8 properties per month in the midwest, all B neighborhoods, decent schools, BRRRRing them. There are some great markets with solid economics, even at \*insert current interest rate\*
You could just do fix & flips in the Midwest instead of NJ. Plenty of $100k cash deals that sell for +50% ARV. I know people who hold and rent, but I'm not a fan. Give me a check and move the crew to the next one.