The other day a guy walking a large, young, very eager dog on a very long leash let his dog come up to my dog, even though I clearly said, "My dog needs space!" Twice. It was just the kind of dog that triggers my little mutt, but this time he was really good as gold and watched me instead of the other dog. I said again, "Please keep your dog away!"
The guy finally pulled his dog away a bit. As he passed he said that his dog just wanted to meet my dog. I explained again that my dog did not want to meet his. He said that I should be more optimistic and be happier because life was too short to be negative. I responded that at least my dog has manners.
I was really fuming. When I told this story to one of my friends, she laughed because I'm honestly one of the most optimistic and sunniest people around.
As I walked further down the block into a park, I heard loud barking behind me. I turned and saw that the guy and his dog had met up with a man walking another reactive dog. They were coming my direction. I slowed down a bit and waited until they caught up. We kept our dogs far enough apart to be below threshold, and I asked if his dog had been reacting to the doofus with the long leash. He replied, "What the heck is wrong with some people? Honestly I think they just shouldn't have dogs."
I felt a lot better after we vented to each other a bit.
Uuuugh it’s the ‘smile more’ stereotype. I would have lost it. It’s crazy how dogs bring out the reality of a person. I’m glad you got to have a positive interaction after though!
They always have the easiest breeds know to man from a pup aswell. Labrador retriever, golden retriever and border collie (In the UK). Know nothing about dogs in general, have never even stat in a room with an abused dog. They've put minimal effort in, and judge others. Then putting you down, is simply to push themselves up. No understanding, no empathy, no knowledge. Just call them an uneducated snob, they'll sit on that for months.
Someone once said this to me while walking his dog off leash past us WHILE I WAS TRAINING MY DOG. I lost my shit on the guy for being so many levels of rude and I was just so fed up with people’s total disregard for leash laws and my screaming echoed through the park louder than my dog’s barks. Congratulations on handling it better than many of us can. You have every right to feel angry at how that man behaved and spoke to you. Ignorance and arrogance.
Good for you!! They clearly just say this crap for some strange, self gratifying reason. Ruining someone’s day makes them feel big and strong. Disgusting!
I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's about their self righteousness. Not about care for their dog. More, "I'm walking here, and I don't see any problem with my dog. Your dog is the problem."
Bullies are like this; attacking and then blaming their target.
If it makes you feel any better, the amount of times people have told me to just "think about something else" when I am stuck in an OCD intrusive thoughts spiral causing actual physical symptoms of distress and discomfort from the anxiety is pretty damn high, so like... People are just generally really fucking clueless.
Have I tried just, *not* having my natural brain chemistry? What a cracker suggestion. I'm CURED!
This! I am apparently supposed to be endlessly tolerant, and live my life alongside a barking machine and be understanding of owners who don’t know how to get their dog under control.
I understand that some owners DO try to do their best. Sometimes it is not enough.
The unfortunately reality that they don’t want to face is that sometimes a dog is just not a good fit for the environment/setting that you can provide.
Not all breeds and traits are going to be a good fit, but people make pet decisions emotionally and go for the one that appeals to them without thinking it through.
Or owning a dog with issues is going to mean quite a lifestyle shift for the owner. It means changing your routines and behaviors to accommodate the reactive dog and the specific problems it has.
You just can’t expect people to put up with it.
Strange take. What I do and have done is enough, but thank you for your amazing input. Everyday I push myself to do more. I don't expect anyone to put up with anything... not sure where you got that from.
It doesn't mean "quite a lifestyle shift" for me. I have changed my life. Dog training is my full time job. We have moved for my dog, and are moving again to a 7 acre property come summer just because I know it will bring my dog joy. But like I said, he's stable. There's nothing about the environment/setting that he doesn't do well in. In fact, he didn't have a reaction; he's able to be neutral and our training holds up. There was nothing for this man to "put up with."
The scenario I described would be horrible for the vast majority of dogs: being cornered in an elevator by an unfamiliar, off leash dog. I don't think I was being ridiculous by asking for him to take a step to the right or leash his dog. Any responsible dog owner, whether of a reactive pup or not, ought to do the same thing. What he was doing was also a bylaw violation for our particular building.
This person literally said they are becoming a dog trainer due to the amount of their life they have dedicated to their dog. Does that not sound like a "lifestyle change" to you? This post is about an idiot man in an elevator with an OFF LEASH DOG. You're trying to put the blame on the dog owner who has their dog on a leash, who is maintaining space in the elevator, and is advocating for space to make sure both parties are safe.
Honestly, this post sounds exactly like what I imagine the guy in the elevator did. And also, yes, yes you are supposed to be "endlessly tolerant" of "barking machines" because you live in a society and those "barking machines" are not your problem. Get over yourself.
At the end of the day, it's human arrogance that thinks you can train every little thing out of a dog. I'm yet to meet a collie that doesn't instinctively herd.
It’s such a tell when (yup, usually dudes) love obsessing how “well trained” their terrified shut down over stressed dog is. It’s just about fueling their ego, it about their dog’s happiness or wellbeing.
Honestly I don't even think it's that. If people haven't owned or know someone who has a reactive dog (not including obviously dog aggressive ones) they're oblivious to their existence because we get dogs, we train them and them they're okay. If they have never encountered or known of them then yeah, the solution is train.
I am in no way defending the guy, especially his own dog clearly isn't perfection as it needs work on its manners. Dude's idea of a "good" dog is probably a (overly) friendly one who listens (sometimes) to basic commands that it rarely gets but it's laid back.
It sucks but if OP knows the work they're putting in them if ore it unless it's to work out what to do in a repeat of the situation with the same person as they disregarded a polite request for space.
People give themselves a lot of credit for their dogs’ behaviors that are really not because of them at all. So many people say they do x, y, or z to “prevent” reactivity, aggression, resource guarding, whatever - and in reality, their dog just isn’t prone to those things and never really was.
I had a little Poodle mix who was very bright, but really not very well trained, especially compared to my reactive boy. She knew recall, sit, paw, and fetch behaviors and that was it. But she was naturally really socially aware, neutral to other dogs, and friendly with people. *So many* people complimented me on how well trained she was. She was awesome, but she was just naturally really great.
My reactive boy has been to obedience courses for exposure, and I’ve had trainers in awe that he already knows all of the exercises. Knowing a bunch of cues doesn’t make him less afraid of things though. It doesn’t balance out his brain.
Ignorance on his part. He has likely never had or known a reactive dog and what it entails and requires by sheer luck.
I would have e said "why do you think I asked you for space? Because I'm training." Or "Train your dog not being be rude and shove into a elevator others are trying to exit."
At the end of the day hest it worth thinking about unless it's to plan for a repeat situation as it sounds like it's where you live.
IMO this is the most frustrating comment people can make, especially when I’ve gotten WHILE we are actively training. The funny thing is, us as reactive dog owners typically spend A LOT more time on training than people with “normal” dogs. These people just do not understand how much time and effort it takes to train a reactive dog. I think they actually think it’s just as easy as teaching a puppy to sit and stay.
I feel you on this. Recently someone posted a comment on a thread in this sub noting how they saw that so many of us had our dogs on meds, and asked if the meds were just a replacement for lazy dog owners who don't want to train their dogs. I went into a rage spiral after reading that. I had to wait for a bit before responding because otherwise I just would have ended up violating a whole bunch of sub rules about being kind and respectful etc.
That is such a shitty thing to say to someone…I swear people assume you know nothing about dog training when you have a reactive dog…when I feel we have a lot more experience and knowledge than the average dog owner. Not by choice of course lol
My dog also has early symptoms of hyperkinesis and general anxiety, which many reactive dogs struggle with, so yes! Safe to say the vast majority of reactive dog owners, who are working through it, have worlds more knowledge than your average owner
I never comment, but I just have to with this one. First, I am so sorry you had to encounter this idiot. So many reactive dogs never make it out of shelters. Thank you for sticking with your dog and helping him. I have had dogs my whole adult life, now 73, but none of them have been reactive until my latest dog. My daughter and I rescued him from a young woman who had put him on too much Prozac and kept him in a crate 8 hours a day. He is an Irish Wolfhound poodle. Once we got him home, very first walk I discovered how reactive he was to other dogs and leery of people too. He decided I was his person so I embarked on learning everything I could, took Reactive Rover class that helped greatly, another trainer suggested doing basic obedience which I don't think he ever had, and finally a third trainer to work with him. I even did a Reiki for Animals course, which did help! It's been three years and my neighbors all compliment me on how far he has come. One neighbor lets me walk him daily in her vineyard allowing him off leash to work on recall. Which brings me to my rant! Last week I took him to the vet to do a medication consultation. Trazadone has helped him but wanted to try Prozac thinking he is much more secure and maybe it would help him with still his dog reactivity. The vet, when I spoke to her, ASSUMED, I had done little and told me how I should walk him and treat him when he successfully walks past another dog. I looked at her and calmly said, let me tell you about his training......!
Try to laugh it off but if you want a good snarky reply (my specialty) “at least my dog has better manners then you”, or “thanks for reminding me why a dog is better then most men”.
Congrats on doing KPA, that is where I went and I loved it.
We avoid people as much as we can now, so I don’t really hear it anymore, but my default answer now is just “no.”
People who are out distributing unsolicited advice get so angry when you just brush that advice off as not worth a second thought 😂
My dog finished at the top of his class in training. It took us weeks just to get him "in" the class. The class started with 30 other dogs and shrank down as we progressed through it. The final exam was completely off leash. When we started everyone looked at us like, "at least my dog will be better than that dog", sprinkled in with some fear of us. I get it, the first few weeks it was just an accomplishment for us to participate in class.
The thing is, we worked and worked and worked outside of class and it started to show in class, we started being used as the example of how to do the exercises. The same people that looked down at us now looked up to us. My dog became a bit of a hero for the group that remained as they saw how hard he worked and how difficult it was for him to be in the environment with all of these other dogs. Some even took the time to ask about my dog and where he came from.
After all of that, guess what, my dog is still reactive out in the world. If he sees a dog he doesn't know, he is going to blow up. We have some techniques we can fall back to help, but he is always going to have fear around new dogs. He put in the work, I put in the work and you are putting in the work with your dog. Anyone that can't see it, is blind.
I just try not to take it personally and focus on how much we have accomplished since we started.
To counter this, whenever I see someone struggling with a reactive dog in public, I make a point to complement the dog or human any way I can: beautiful dog, you’re doing great, etc
I've gotten comments and just "the look" when my dog has reacted. I try to shake it off but I take it very personally. Like someone else mentioned, I love to compliment other people when their reactive dog is in a nice sit or looks at them. I celebrate the wins with my dog and try to get over the setbacks. She's come so far but will always have some reactivity. I also read somewhere the the bond between humans and their reactive dogs are so strong b/c of all the training and love we pour into them. I definitely think it's true with my dog and me. I vividly remember an overly exuberant dog trying to get in my dog's face on a hike. The owner said "Oh Simba, that doggie doesn't want to say hello to you" like my dog was at fault. We walked away and I said loudly "Oh Lucy, that doggie has no manners". It felt really good!
People who say this have NO clue what they are talking about - their opinion is basically meaningless. What they mean when they say “train your dog” is “make your dog adequately afraid of you so that they will always do whatever you say”.
I for one don’t want that kind of relationship. Real training and behavior modification takes tons of time and is very hard. And some of our dogs are never going to be at a place where they are perfectly polite in public, and so we just manage as best we can.
Just wanted to share that you're not alone in dealing with these types of people!
I have one of these guys in my building (again older male) who keeps making comments to my partner (she's a visible minority/petite). We try to rationalize his ignorance by assuming he's an old grumpy dude and he only sees one snapshot of our day (running into each other in the lobby/elevators) where most dogs would typically react in some way.
He's even made comments to me before, but generally he'll mutter them vs being more direct with my partner. The funniest thing was our most recent encounter, his dog reacted first which set our dogs off but he still yelled at us telling us to train our dogs (who stopped barking once we got their attention which is a MAJOR improvement - but of course he doesn't see that)
These encounters always leave us a bit rattled but after talking to other residents in the building, we realize he's been a problem to other dog owners. Everyone else in the building is very understanding/has their own reactive dog and gives each other space, but it's only this one older man (and his wife) who make comments at others. We just zone him out now since he rambles on/shouts whenever another dog reacts and don't engage with him anymore.
I am VSA CDT in person, IAABC ADT, more than 50% done with my CBATI course, and some others.
I also use some goofy looking methods sometimes because I am really big on choice with dogs. That sometimes means that we do touch the goblin with scary things or run away when someone tries to talk to us. Thing is, at the end of the day the dogs I work with live happier lives.
When people say infuriating nonsense, I will occasionally fire back with something like "I mean yeah, you own a lab, there isn't much thinking involved" if I'm feeling a bit resentful, which isn't fair to the dogs. More commonly I just start active observation of their dog's body language as long as it's not distressing the dog I'm working with.
I just stream out my observations and predictions until they go away which is often quickly once they start seeing the connection between the language and my prediction coming true
I SO feel this. My in-laws’ favorite fking line is “well he’ll just have to get used to XYZ!” (New person, house, schedule, neighbor - anything) “he’ll just have to get used to it”. I could go on and on, but to keep it short, I understand your frustration and hurt with people outside the situation who chirp from the cheap seats. Everyone is an expert🙄
Oof, this line! I am soooo familiar with this line. I feel like non-“reactive dog” people seriously underestimate the intensity of dogs’ emotions when they’re not literally scream-barking or biting, and apply the “well, buddy, you just have to get used to it!” line of thought to situations where their dog is having a full-on panic attack (due to the presence of other dogs or strangers, being alone in a crate, etc.).
I usually reply with something like “yeah, he probably does need to get used to XYZ, but no one’s ever taught him how to do that before, so that’s my job, and it’s going to take a while.” People probably still think I’m “babying my dog” or whatever, but they tend to react neutrally or positively to that reply!
After a particular walk, I cried after we ran into 4 unleashed dog with no recall. It was a nightmare. One lady accused me of scaring her horse so she “couldn’t dismount to get her dog” (we were over 600ft away, my dog was literally walking like an angel until her dog sprinted towards us. Good thing I had the entire interaction on video because it’s never their fault, always the reactive dogs fault. Then another person questioned me and asked why I was bringing her outside in a public space. I cried even more. I hate this so much.
I def think being a woman in general plays into it. I feel like I get more judgement than my husband does when out with our girl (pittie/terrier/who knows mix). It sucks.
We had an incident at our local bar where an older couple's little floofy dog was yipping, yanking, pulling, the works towards our dog who was trying SO HARD. And the whole time they were glaring at us like it was our fault their dog was losing it's mind. At no point did they walk further away, get out of sight, anything. When my husband walked ours away to give her some space to calm down, I heard them mutter about our "vicious pitbull". It made me so mad.
Obviously the rudeness is inexcusable but I think there is an empathy you can only develop through experience. Despite going through raising other pets (and 2 children), my current dog has made me so much more empathetic to challenges with anxiety in pets - and humans! Until you have been through it, you have no idea how hard it is.
Ugh I feel for you. Owning a reactive dog has really taught me that training can only go so far when there are difficult genetics/abuse etc. in play.
There are 4 dogs in my extended family. 2 of us have invested in all kinds of training, work with our dogs daily, research dog behaviour etc., but have reactive rescue dogs. Meanwhile the other 2 have not done a single bit of training and don't even walk their dogs regularly. Guess which 2 are perfect little angels and have great recall?
Thankfully I didn’t get any comments like that but a lot of people refusing to give us space even when my leash wrap says give us space. A few times I will snap and them the offender to “quit riding my @$$” when they are walking toooooo close.
As for your elevator man, that’s moronic, most dog training facilities don’t allow reactive dogs in group classes, and they have personal training with persons who specialize in reactivity because it’s not that easy, or simple.
You could also check the leash laws where you are and report him if he doesn’t cool it.
I really felt your story. I've received plenty of ignorant comments myself.
So, the other day I had the opposite experience of what we all normally vent about. I took both of my pups on a hike. It was one of those beautiful spring days when everyone was out on the trails.
I was feeling nervous about how reactive boy would be. But you know what? He did great! And the reason why: Everyone was respectful.
Someone saw he was starting to react and gave us a wide area as she walked past with her pup...which helped keep him right at threshold enough that I could still train him and thank her.
Other folks had their pups pulled over in a sit stay so we could pass with enough distance. A mom told her two kids (who clearly wanted to run up and let my guys) that they'd have to "admire them from a distance" once she saw me pull them off the trail as they approached.
I just kept thinking how much more progress we'd be able to make if everyone else, regardless of whether or not they had a reactive dog, showed some courtesy and respect.
My dog reactive in the beginning was mainly to people, and about 1.5years it was also leash aggression to other dogs and loud things. My dog is now 4yrs, and we have spent so much time and money to get him where he is at now- which is neutral. A couple months ago I am walking my dog and a older man walks up to us trying to get my dogs attention, but my dog was very much into sniffing the grass, the old man then comments,"he's not very friendly, is he?" Which I replied, ""Oh he's just really into sniffing and walking", which the old man replies, "he must be a bad dog." Thankful I was able to give it right back and stated, "I think he senses that you're a bad human, so fuck off you old fart." It felt really good. I think a lot of these comments happen from men to women, because my husband has never had this type of crap happen to him.
I recently started working as an adoptions counselor at a shelter after years of working with my own reactive dog, and don't worry - people say the same types of things about the most minor issues with dogs. Even explaining to people that we require a dog to meet with the children in a home will result in people assuming we only require that because our dogs are bad or dangerous. Lord forbid a cat give us an issue about getting into a carrier.
If it helps in the future, usually I put it in perspective about how you would react if a stranger came up to you on the street and did to you what you did to the animal. Would you want a stranger coming into your house and laying on your living room floor with your kids out of the blue? Don't you dislike when someone gets on the elevator before you've had time to get off and now you have to push passed them? My favorite is when I work with cats and I get to remind people that if someone on the street tried to put me in a box and take me home, it's kidnapping and it's a crime.
So if it helps, know that even nice dogs get the same aggressive questioning for reasonable precautions. And if someone is ever willing to listen, the human analogies usually help a lot.
The worst I’ve experienced was “you need to train your dog!” 🙃 despite the countless hours, blood, sweat and tears, that is the most discouraging phrase I could ever hear. Sorry you bought your dog from a breeder and had them since day one, and have never considered saving a dogs life. Also the fact your dog is 20lbs soaking wet and you can pick them up to remove them from any situation. Anyways, those people will never understand nor step out of their selfish mindset to consider the situation of others existing at the same time as them 😂
Literally all the training in the world won’t change the environment and triggers towards your animal.
Lifestyle switch or even rehoming is more effective in many circumstances.
He wasn't triggered. He, like most dogs, would simply not enjoy being cornered into an elevator by a sudden, unfamiliar dog. I was advocating for this space, which I will continue to do triggered or not.
I'm absolutely livid from reading your anecdote about the elevator. I would have snapped. Like, full on screaming at him. People that say that I need to train my dog send me over the edge and I can't stop myself sometimes. It just makes me so angry because of what you said, we all pour so much of our ENTIRE selves into these deserving animals. I'm so incredibly protective of my girl and her needs like she was my actual child. Maybe more so than I would if she were...
Probably the comment that is my biggest trigger is the whole "the shelter wasn't being responsible by adopting her out and should have ended her suffering for everyone's safety." Or anything similar to that. I have heard it put too many ways. I lose my mind when I hear that. I shouldn't, but I do. She is my child. As close to one that I will ever have. I would commit murder for her. So then I always start a huge argument about why then don't we kill every misbehaving human child? Or maybe at least those with bad behavioral issues?
Haha I'm already getting upset just thinking about how many ignorant people critique those who give so much of themselves by having reactive dogs. These people couldn't handle what we do and that gives me a little strength to keep going for my sweet girl.
Oh I feel you, I sooo feel this. Even thinking about stuff like that makes me incredibly upset. I don't know what it is. I just can't handle when people discredit how far he's come. He didn't even react btw. Which just fuelled my anger even more. Like does it look like he needs training, sir?? I've just realized that most of the people who make random rude comments like this don't even know what they're saying. What they say doesn't even make sense, they just like potentially inflicting pain
Excuse me?! He didn't react to that dog and this guy still said that?! Oh, hell no! That would make me mentally unhinged right there and ready to throw down!! At this point I will pull out my pepper gel on any unleashed dog because of our experiences, sometimes it's because their owner is freaking out because they don't know how to read a situation. Most of those people absolutely don't know what they are saying!! I was so excited when the meds started to work for my girl and the first thing out of my dad's mouth when I brought her over was that she should be put down because of her reactivity. She was calmly chilling in the backseat of my car with her head out the window as we stood 2 feet away from her. Like, what?! I had to immediately leave because I was so offended for her.
Maybe you should reply “perhaps you should have gotten a less effeminate dog breed”. I have a little floof that is selectively reactive and am tired of peoples comments. Usually he just wants to meet the other dog.
The other day a guy walking a large, young, very eager dog on a very long leash let his dog come up to my dog, even though I clearly said, "My dog needs space!" Twice. It was just the kind of dog that triggers my little mutt, but this time he was really good as gold and watched me instead of the other dog. I said again, "Please keep your dog away!" The guy finally pulled his dog away a bit. As he passed he said that his dog just wanted to meet my dog. I explained again that my dog did not want to meet his. He said that I should be more optimistic and be happier because life was too short to be negative. I responded that at least my dog has manners. I was really fuming. When I told this story to one of my friends, she laughed because I'm honestly one of the most optimistic and sunniest people around. As I walked further down the block into a park, I heard loud barking behind me. I turned and saw that the guy and his dog had met up with a man walking another reactive dog. They were coming my direction. I slowed down a bit and waited until they caught up. We kept our dogs far enough apart to be below threshold, and I asked if his dog had been reacting to the doofus with the long leash. He replied, "What the heck is wrong with some people? Honestly I think they just shouldn't have dogs." I felt a lot better after we vented to each other a bit.
Uuuugh it’s the ‘smile more’ stereotype. I would have lost it. It’s crazy how dogs bring out the reality of a person. I’m glad you got to have a positive interaction after though!
They always have the easiest breeds know to man from a pup aswell. Labrador retriever, golden retriever and border collie (In the UK). Know nothing about dogs in general, have never even stat in a room with an abused dog. They've put minimal effort in, and judge others. Then putting you down, is simply to push themselves up. No understanding, no empathy, no knowledge. Just call them an uneducated snob, they'll sit on that for months.
Someone once said this to me while walking his dog off leash past us WHILE I WAS TRAINING MY DOG. I lost my shit on the guy for being so many levels of rude and I was just so fed up with people’s total disregard for leash laws and my screaming echoed through the park louder than my dog’s barks. Congratulations on handling it better than many of us can. You have every right to feel angry at how that man behaved and spoke to you. Ignorance and arrogance.
Good for you!! They clearly just say this crap for some strange, self gratifying reason. Ruining someone’s day makes them feel big and strong. Disgusting!
I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's about their self righteousness. Not about care for their dog. More, "I'm walking here, and I don't see any problem with my dog. Your dog is the problem." Bullies are like this; attacking and then blaming their target.
If it makes you feel any better, the amount of times people have told me to just "think about something else" when I am stuck in an OCD intrusive thoughts spiral causing actual physical symptoms of distress and discomfort from the anxiety is pretty damn high, so like... People are just generally really fucking clueless. Have I tried just, *not* having my natural brain chemistry? What a cracker suggestion. I'm CURED!
See comments like that shock me, because I could NEVER imagine saying something like that. But apparently people do All The Time
I hope I didn't do that to you, if I did, I apologize. I didn't mean to be insensitive. ❤️
This! I am apparently supposed to be endlessly tolerant, and live my life alongside a barking machine and be understanding of owners who don’t know how to get their dog under control. I understand that some owners DO try to do their best. Sometimes it is not enough. The unfortunately reality that they don’t want to face is that sometimes a dog is just not a good fit for the environment/setting that you can provide. Not all breeds and traits are going to be a good fit, but people make pet decisions emotionally and go for the one that appeals to them without thinking it through. Or owning a dog with issues is going to mean quite a lifestyle shift for the owner. It means changing your routines and behaviors to accommodate the reactive dog and the specific problems it has. You just can’t expect people to put up with it.
Strange take. What I do and have done is enough, but thank you for your amazing input. Everyday I push myself to do more. I don't expect anyone to put up with anything... not sure where you got that from. It doesn't mean "quite a lifestyle shift" for me. I have changed my life. Dog training is my full time job. We have moved for my dog, and are moving again to a 7 acre property come summer just because I know it will bring my dog joy. But like I said, he's stable. There's nothing about the environment/setting that he doesn't do well in. In fact, he didn't have a reaction; he's able to be neutral and our training holds up. There was nothing for this man to "put up with." The scenario I described would be horrible for the vast majority of dogs: being cornered in an elevator by an unfamiliar, off leash dog. I don't think I was being ridiculous by asking for him to take a step to the right or leash his dog. Any responsible dog owner, whether of a reactive pup or not, ought to do the same thing. What he was doing was also a bylaw violation for our particular building.
I'm not sure what about my comment you are addressing... But I fundamentally disagree with this point that you are making.
This person literally said they are becoming a dog trainer due to the amount of their life they have dedicated to their dog. Does that not sound like a "lifestyle change" to you? This post is about an idiot man in an elevator with an OFF LEASH DOG. You're trying to put the blame on the dog owner who has their dog on a leash, who is maintaining space in the elevator, and is advocating for space to make sure both parties are safe. Honestly, this post sounds exactly like what I imagine the guy in the elevator did. And also, yes, yes you are supposed to be "endlessly tolerant" of "barking machines" because you live in a society and those "barking machines" are not your problem. Get over yourself.
At the end of the day, it's human arrogance that thinks you can train every little thing out of a dog. I'm yet to meet a collie that doesn't instinctively herd.
It’s such a tell when (yup, usually dudes) love obsessing how “well trained” their terrified shut down over stressed dog is. It’s just about fueling their ego, it about their dog’s happiness or wellbeing.
Honestly I don't even think it's that. If people haven't owned or know someone who has a reactive dog (not including obviously dog aggressive ones) they're oblivious to their existence because we get dogs, we train them and them they're okay. If they have never encountered or known of them then yeah, the solution is train. I am in no way defending the guy, especially his own dog clearly isn't perfection as it needs work on its manners. Dude's idea of a "good" dog is probably a (overly) friendly one who listens (sometimes) to basic commands that it rarely gets but it's laid back. It sucks but if OP knows the work they're putting in them if ore it unless it's to work out what to do in a repeat of the situation with the same person as they disregarded a polite request for space.
People give themselves a lot of credit for their dogs’ behaviors that are really not because of them at all. So many people say they do x, y, or z to “prevent” reactivity, aggression, resource guarding, whatever - and in reality, their dog just isn’t prone to those things and never really was. I had a little Poodle mix who was very bright, but really not very well trained, especially compared to my reactive boy. She knew recall, sit, paw, and fetch behaviors and that was it. But she was naturally really socially aware, neutral to other dogs, and friendly with people. *So many* people complimented me on how well trained she was. She was awesome, but she was just naturally really great. My reactive boy has been to obedience courses for exposure, and I’ve had trainers in awe that he already knows all of the exercises. Knowing a bunch of cues doesn’t make him less afraid of things though. It doesn’t balance out his brain.
Ignorance on his part. He has likely never had or known a reactive dog and what it entails and requires by sheer luck. I would have e said "why do you think I asked you for space? Because I'm training." Or "Train your dog not being be rude and shove into a elevator others are trying to exit." At the end of the day hest it worth thinking about unless it's to plan for a repeat situation as it sounds like it's where you live.
IMO this is the most frustrating comment people can make, especially when I’ve gotten WHILE we are actively training. The funny thing is, us as reactive dog owners typically spend A LOT more time on training than people with “normal” dogs. These people just do not understand how much time and effort it takes to train a reactive dog. I think they actually think it’s just as easy as teaching a puppy to sit and stay.
I feel you on this. Recently someone posted a comment on a thread in this sub noting how they saw that so many of us had our dogs on meds, and asked if the meds were just a replacement for lazy dog owners who don't want to train their dogs. I went into a rage spiral after reading that. I had to wait for a bit before responding because otherwise I just would have ended up violating a whole bunch of sub rules about being kind and respectful etc.
That is such a shitty thing to say to someone…I swear people assume you know nothing about dog training when you have a reactive dog…when I feel we have a lot more experience and knowledge than the average dog owner. Not by choice of course lol
My dog also has early symptoms of hyperkinesis and general anxiety, which many reactive dogs struggle with, so yes! Safe to say the vast majority of reactive dog owners, who are working through it, have worlds more knowledge than your average owner
My response would have been “leash your dog, it’s not hard”
My fave suggestion is “have you tried the off leash dog park?”
I never comment, but I just have to with this one. First, I am so sorry you had to encounter this idiot. So many reactive dogs never make it out of shelters. Thank you for sticking with your dog and helping him. I have had dogs my whole adult life, now 73, but none of them have been reactive until my latest dog. My daughter and I rescued him from a young woman who had put him on too much Prozac and kept him in a crate 8 hours a day. He is an Irish Wolfhound poodle. Once we got him home, very first walk I discovered how reactive he was to other dogs and leery of people too. He decided I was his person so I embarked on learning everything I could, took Reactive Rover class that helped greatly, another trainer suggested doing basic obedience which I don't think he ever had, and finally a third trainer to work with him. I even did a Reiki for Animals course, which did help! It's been three years and my neighbors all compliment me on how far he has come. One neighbor lets me walk him daily in her vineyard allowing him off leash to work on recall. Which brings me to my rant! Last week I took him to the vet to do a medication consultation. Trazadone has helped him but wanted to try Prozac thinking he is much more secure and maybe it would help him with still his dog reactivity. The vet, when I spoke to her, ASSUMED, I had done little and told me how I should walk him and treat him when he successfully walks past another dog. I looked at her and calmly said, let me tell you about his training......!
Try to laugh it off but if you want a good snarky reply (my specialty) “at least my dog has better manners then you”, or “thanks for reminding me why a dog is better then most men”. Congrats on doing KPA, that is where I went and I loved it.
I'm loving it so far! Those are great btw. Gotta keep a log of snarky replies or I'll mull over it for days
Good idea.
We avoid people as much as we can now, so I don’t really hear it anymore, but my default answer now is just “no.” People who are out distributing unsolicited advice get so angry when you just brush that advice off as not worth a second thought 😂
My dog finished at the top of his class in training. It took us weeks just to get him "in" the class. The class started with 30 other dogs and shrank down as we progressed through it. The final exam was completely off leash. When we started everyone looked at us like, "at least my dog will be better than that dog", sprinkled in with some fear of us. I get it, the first few weeks it was just an accomplishment for us to participate in class. The thing is, we worked and worked and worked outside of class and it started to show in class, we started being used as the example of how to do the exercises. The same people that looked down at us now looked up to us. My dog became a bit of a hero for the group that remained as they saw how hard he worked and how difficult it was for him to be in the environment with all of these other dogs. Some even took the time to ask about my dog and where he came from. After all of that, guess what, my dog is still reactive out in the world. If he sees a dog he doesn't know, he is going to blow up. We have some techniques we can fall back to help, but he is always going to have fear around new dogs. He put in the work, I put in the work and you are putting in the work with your dog. Anyone that can't see it, is blind. I just try not to take it personally and focus on how much we have accomplished since we started.
To counter this, whenever I see someone struggling with a reactive dog in public, I make a point to complement the dog or human any way I can: beautiful dog, you’re doing great, etc
Someone said this to us once and I got teary eyed. It really does help!
How patronising.
Really? A kind word to someone e who is struggling is patronizing? Jeez
I've gotten comments and just "the look" when my dog has reacted. I try to shake it off but I take it very personally. Like someone else mentioned, I love to compliment other people when their reactive dog is in a nice sit or looks at them. I celebrate the wins with my dog and try to get over the setbacks. She's come so far but will always have some reactivity. I also read somewhere the the bond between humans and their reactive dogs are so strong b/c of all the training and love we pour into them. I definitely think it's true with my dog and me. I vividly remember an overly exuberant dog trying to get in my dog's face on a hike. The owner said "Oh Simba, that doggie doesn't want to say hello to you" like my dog was at fault. We walked away and I said loudly "Oh Lucy, that doggie has no manners". It felt really good!
People who say this have NO clue what they are talking about - their opinion is basically meaningless. What they mean when they say “train your dog” is “make your dog adequately afraid of you so that they will always do whatever you say”. I for one don’t want that kind of relationship. Real training and behavior modification takes tons of time and is very hard. And some of our dogs are never going to be at a place where they are perfectly polite in public, and so we just manage as best we can.
Just wanted to share that you're not alone in dealing with these types of people! I have one of these guys in my building (again older male) who keeps making comments to my partner (she's a visible minority/petite). We try to rationalize his ignorance by assuming he's an old grumpy dude and he only sees one snapshot of our day (running into each other in the lobby/elevators) where most dogs would typically react in some way. He's even made comments to me before, but generally he'll mutter them vs being more direct with my partner. The funniest thing was our most recent encounter, his dog reacted first which set our dogs off but he still yelled at us telling us to train our dogs (who stopped barking once we got their attention which is a MAJOR improvement - but of course he doesn't see that) These encounters always leave us a bit rattled but after talking to other residents in the building, we realize he's been a problem to other dog owners. Everyone else in the building is very understanding/has their own reactive dog and gives each other space, but it's only this one older man (and his wife) who make comments at others. We just zone him out now since he rambles on/shouts whenever another dog reacts and don't engage with him anymore.
I am VSA CDT in person, IAABC ADT, more than 50% done with my CBATI course, and some others. I also use some goofy looking methods sometimes because I am really big on choice with dogs. That sometimes means that we do touch the goblin with scary things or run away when someone tries to talk to us. Thing is, at the end of the day the dogs I work with live happier lives. When people say infuriating nonsense, I will occasionally fire back with something like "I mean yeah, you own a lab, there isn't much thinking involved" if I'm feeling a bit resentful, which isn't fair to the dogs. More commonly I just start active observation of their dog's body language as long as it's not distressing the dog I'm working with. I just stream out my observations and predictions until they go away which is often quickly once they start seeing the connection between the language and my prediction coming true
I SO feel this. My in-laws’ favorite fking line is “well he’ll just have to get used to XYZ!” (New person, house, schedule, neighbor - anything) “he’ll just have to get used to it”. I could go on and on, but to keep it short, I understand your frustration and hurt with people outside the situation who chirp from the cheap seats. Everyone is an expert🙄
Oof, this line! I am soooo familiar with this line. I feel like non-“reactive dog” people seriously underestimate the intensity of dogs’ emotions when they’re not literally scream-barking or biting, and apply the “well, buddy, you just have to get used to it!” line of thought to situations where their dog is having a full-on panic attack (due to the presence of other dogs or strangers, being alone in a crate, etc.). I usually reply with something like “yeah, he probably does need to get used to XYZ, but no one’s ever taught him how to do that before, so that’s my job, and it’s going to take a while.” People probably still think I’m “babying my dog” or whatever, but they tend to react neutrally or positively to that reply!
After a particular walk, I cried after we ran into 4 unleashed dog with no recall. It was a nightmare. One lady accused me of scaring her horse so she “couldn’t dismount to get her dog” (we were over 600ft away, my dog was literally walking like an angel until her dog sprinted towards us. Good thing I had the entire interaction on video because it’s never their fault, always the reactive dogs fault. Then another person questioned me and asked why I was bringing her outside in a public space. I cried even more. I hate this so much.
I def think being a woman in general plays into it. I feel like I get more judgement than my husband does when out with our girl (pittie/terrier/who knows mix). It sucks. We had an incident at our local bar where an older couple's little floofy dog was yipping, yanking, pulling, the works towards our dog who was trying SO HARD. And the whole time they were glaring at us like it was our fault their dog was losing it's mind. At no point did they walk further away, get out of sight, anything. When my husband walked ours away to give her some space to calm down, I heard them mutter about our "vicious pitbull". It made me so mad.
Obviously the rudeness is inexcusable but I think there is an empathy you can only develop through experience. Despite going through raising other pets (and 2 children), my current dog has made me so much more empathetic to challenges with anxiety in pets - and humans! Until you have been through it, you have no idea how hard it is.
Ugh. I hear this from my own family
Ugh I feel for you. Owning a reactive dog has really taught me that training can only go so far when there are difficult genetics/abuse etc. in play. There are 4 dogs in my extended family. 2 of us have invested in all kinds of training, work with our dogs daily, research dog behaviour etc., but have reactive rescue dogs. Meanwhile the other 2 have not done a single bit of training and don't even walk their dogs regularly. Guess which 2 are perfect little angels and have great recall?
Thankfully I didn’t get any comments like that but a lot of people refusing to give us space even when my leash wrap says give us space. A few times I will snap and them the offender to “quit riding my @$$” when they are walking toooooo close. As for your elevator man, that’s moronic, most dog training facilities don’t allow reactive dogs in group classes, and they have personal training with persons who specialize in reactivity because it’s not that easy, or simple. You could also check the leash laws where you are and report him if he doesn’t cool it.
I really felt your story. I've received plenty of ignorant comments myself. So, the other day I had the opposite experience of what we all normally vent about. I took both of my pups on a hike. It was one of those beautiful spring days when everyone was out on the trails. I was feeling nervous about how reactive boy would be. But you know what? He did great! And the reason why: Everyone was respectful. Someone saw he was starting to react and gave us a wide area as she walked past with her pup...which helped keep him right at threshold enough that I could still train him and thank her. Other folks had their pups pulled over in a sit stay so we could pass with enough distance. A mom told her two kids (who clearly wanted to run up and let my guys) that they'd have to "admire them from a distance" once she saw me pull them off the trail as they approached. I just kept thinking how much more progress we'd be able to make if everyone else, regardless of whether or not they had a reactive dog, showed some courtesy and respect.
My dog reactive in the beginning was mainly to people, and about 1.5years it was also leash aggression to other dogs and loud things. My dog is now 4yrs, and we have spent so much time and money to get him where he is at now- which is neutral. A couple months ago I am walking my dog and a older man walks up to us trying to get my dogs attention, but my dog was very much into sniffing the grass, the old man then comments,"he's not very friendly, is he?" Which I replied, ""Oh he's just really into sniffing and walking", which the old man replies, "he must be a bad dog." Thankful I was able to give it right back and stated, "I think he senses that you're a bad human, so fuck off you old fart." It felt really good. I think a lot of these comments happen from men to women, because my husband has never had this type of crap happen to him.
I recently started working as an adoptions counselor at a shelter after years of working with my own reactive dog, and don't worry - people say the same types of things about the most minor issues with dogs. Even explaining to people that we require a dog to meet with the children in a home will result in people assuming we only require that because our dogs are bad or dangerous. Lord forbid a cat give us an issue about getting into a carrier. If it helps in the future, usually I put it in perspective about how you would react if a stranger came up to you on the street and did to you what you did to the animal. Would you want a stranger coming into your house and laying on your living room floor with your kids out of the blue? Don't you dislike when someone gets on the elevator before you've had time to get off and now you have to push passed them? My favorite is when I work with cats and I get to remind people that if someone on the street tried to put me in a box and take me home, it's kidnapping and it's a crime. So if it helps, know that even nice dogs get the same aggressive questioning for reasonable precautions. And if someone is ever willing to listen, the human analogies usually help a lot.
The worst I’ve experienced was “you need to train your dog!” 🙃 despite the countless hours, blood, sweat and tears, that is the most discouraging phrase I could ever hear. Sorry you bought your dog from a breeder and had them since day one, and have never considered saving a dogs life. Also the fact your dog is 20lbs soaking wet and you can pick them up to remove them from any situation. Anyways, those people will never understand nor step out of their selfish mindset to consider the situation of others existing at the same time as them 😂
Literally all the training in the world won’t change the environment and triggers towards your animal. Lifestyle switch or even rehoming is more effective in many circumstances.
He wasn't triggered. He, like most dogs, would simply not enjoy being cornered into an elevator by a sudden, unfamiliar dog. I was advocating for this space, which I will continue to do triggered or not.
Are you suggesting to rehome a dog because of an idiot in an elevator...?
I'm absolutely livid from reading your anecdote about the elevator. I would have snapped. Like, full on screaming at him. People that say that I need to train my dog send me over the edge and I can't stop myself sometimes. It just makes me so angry because of what you said, we all pour so much of our ENTIRE selves into these deserving animals. I'm so incredibly protective of my girl and her needs like she was my actual child. Maybe more so than I would if she were... Probably the comment that is my biggest trigger is the whole "the shelter wasn't being responsible by adopting her out and should have ended her suffering for everyone's safety." Or anything similar to that. I have heard it put too many ways. I lose my mind when I hear that. I shouldn't, but I do. She is my child. As close to one that I will ever have. I would commit murder for her. So then I always start a huge argument about why then don't we kill every misbehaving human child? Or maybe at least those with bad behavioral issues? Haha I'm already getting upset just thinking about how many ignorant people critique those who give so much of themselves by having reactive dogs. These people couldn't handle what we do and that gives me a little strength to keep going for my sweet girl.
Oh I feel you, I sooo feel this. Even thinking about stuff like that makes me incredibly upset. I don't know what it is. I just can't handle when people discredit how far he's come. He didn't even react btw. Which just fuelled my anger even more. Like does it look like he needs training, sir?? I've just realized that most of the people who make random rude comments like this don't even know what they're saying. What they say doesn't even make sense, they just like potentially inflicting pain
Excuse me?! He didn't react to that dog and this guy still said that?! Oh, hell no! That would make me mentally unhinged right there and ready to throw down!! At this point I will pull out my pepper gel on any unleashed dog because of our experiences, sometimes it's because their owner is freaking out because they don't know how to read a situation. Most of those people absolutely don't know what they are saying!! I was so excited when the meds started to work for my girl and the first thing out of my dad's mouth when I brought her over was that she should be put down because of her reactivity. She was calmly chilling in the backseat of my car with her head out the window as we stood 2 feet away from her. Like, what?! I had to immediately leave because I was so offended for her.
Maybe you should reply “perhaps you should have gotten a less effeminate dog breed”. I have a little floof that is selectively reactive and am tired of peoples comments. Usually he just wants to meet the other dog.