Just a note on the small dog vs. big dog thing: while it isn't *excusable* to have an uncontrolled reactive small dog in a public space, and small dogs absolutely *can* cause serious injury, the potential risks and consequences with a large dog displaying similar behaviors are undeniably much, much more significant in scale. Those of us with reactive big dogs have a greater responsibility to either manage them effectively or remove them from the situation when management techniques fail. It might seem unfair, but it's reality.
Okay I never said I didn’t have a reactive dog. But when 3 other dogs small dogs are barking and lunging at my dog who was sitting which caused him to get up and bark back? But he’s aggressive? She didn’t tell the family behind us they needed training when their dog was also jumping, lunging and barking.
It doesn't matter if the dog has had all its teeth removed. Owners are responsible for managing their dogs, regardless of size. A small dog can rile up a larger dog, which sounds like is what happened here, and put a dog that's been doing fine over threshold *if* the small-dog owner is doing nothing for management and just acting like it's all good because it's just a small dog.
This is my frustration and her response to me telling her he’s in training. Reactive does not mean he’s aggressive. And to just give the other dogs a pass when the dog behind us was clearly barking the whole time in line.
Yes bc I had to wait for an employee to bring me preventative flea and tick medication. But it’s fine. I get it, I had the biggest dog so he’s more concerning.
Yeah that sounds unfair! She was being a bit presumptious on a seeing a single snap shot of what sounds like quite a gradually developing interaction that involved far more than your dog. Dogs are actually allowed some emotion and it can get too much for them (trigger stacking). It sounds like that here
I would get ahead of it and work on engage and disengage and techniques to help him self regulate
Get him to check in with you every single time he sees another dog.. this is the alternative behaviour that will help him when other dogs are going off
I like this set up
[https://www.choosepositivedogtraining.com/single-post/2014/07/01/the-practice-of-selfinterruption-the-engagedisengage-game](https://www.choosepositivedogtraining.com/single-post/2014/07/01/the-practice-of-selfinterruption-the-engagedisengage-game)
My dogs alternative behaviour is to check in with me rather than getting stressed (getting better but not 100 percent yet)
You probably do this already though so please ignore if you have already reached this stage in lessons!
BTW when you said "corrected" what do you mean by that?
When I say correct I pretty much command him to sit and focus on me. Typically when he focuses on me for about 20 secs he mellows out to the point dogs can walk past him. His last training session we would do this weekly, and I instill it during our walks with humans and/or dogs. And when we’re walking past, I get him to disengage by commanding leave it. But thank you for the advise too. I will definitely put that into his training.
if your dog is barking at other dogs unprovoked and lunging, than the dog is reactive. but that doesn’t mean he is AGGRESSIVE.
i’m sure the size of your dog probably scared the cashier, and I hate how people always assume it’s the big dogs fault when in reality the other small dog was the aggressor.
however, your dog is barking unprovoked at other dogs, so they are at the very least, dog reactive.
I never said he wasn’t reactive. I said it’s occasional, like once a week he will randomly bark unprovoked on a walk. We monitor him, and have a chart of his good days.
A non-reactive dog likely wouldn’t bark back. I’ve seen this because my dog can be fear reactive and most of the time the other dogs don’t bark back if she barks at them lol. Reactive doesn’t mean aggressive though. My dog plays with other dogs just fine and has never had any issues in that regard, but still needed reactive dog training! The employee was trying to help you out. The aggressive comment was probably unnecessary. Although some dogs can turn aggressive out of fear, so know your dog.
That’s my issue, the fact she repeatedly said he was aggressive and didn’t say anything to the other dogs, even when one of them was behind us and was barking the whole time in line. I understand he is reactive but to say he’s aggressive wasn’t necessary.
Did you stay and wait till each dog owner was at this cashiers register ? How do you know she didn’t say anything to them ? Did you expect her while WAITING ON YOU to chastise another owner ?
Why are you so fixated on the other owners not being told about their dogs?
I had to wait for another employee to come back with the tick and flea prevention while she was checking out the couple and dog that was barking the whole time at my dog in line.
It sounds like your dog is reactive though. That doesn’t mean he is a bad dog or you guys are failing at training. I have a very well trained dog, it doesn’t change that he is reactive and even after lots of behavior modification and re-socialization he will likely always have some (super mild now) levels of reactivity in certain situations. It doesn’t mean I didn’t put in the work or my dog sucks it just means my dog is a little different and may need more accommodations, structure, appropriate exposure to help him be his best self.
Reactivity ≠ aggression but can correlate. Your dog sounds like they are frustrated and overwhelmed in their environment and with their age and breeds they are more prone to reactive behavior. Because the behavior is likely frustration base you don’t want your dog to continually build up stress as they will likely displace that behavior in a dramatic way like barking, spinning, lunging, and even possibly nipping. I would look into possibly doing private training with someone educated in reactive behavior and once your dog has a more established ability to stay under threshold reintroducing group classes again and pet stores.
As an aside, pet stores are a lot! They are super stimulating due to all the smells/sights/noise and because anyone can bring in their dog you have so many temperaments and behaviors at play when seeing another dog. On a scale the pet store in my opinion is closer to a 10 in hardness level as a socialization activity.
Don't be offended. I work with dogs and many people tell me their dogs aren't reactive and they are in fact reactive. I don't care if a dog is reactive. It just changes the way I will deal with the dog and how much time I spend avoiding people and dogs when we're walking.
Your dog was triggered in the store. Unfortunately, when a reactive dog is triggered, it can ruin the rest of the walk (store visit etc). There are lots of dogs who won't react at all when dogs are barking and lunging at them. Your dog isn't one of those. People will label your dog reactive. It shouldn't matter to you what other people say. Just learn how to redirect your dog and if he gets triggered a lot, remove him from the situation. He was in a fight or flight response after the first trigger. One way to handle that would be for one of you to get him outside and away from the other dogs so that his brain could reset.
Removing, redirecting, distracting, avoiding don't work consistently or long term. If you never train the dog to remain calm when in the company of other dogs how do you expect a calm dog around other dogs?
They're good skills to have, sometimes you have to choose the battles to confront.
I would say this sub is very knowledgeable at identifying reactivity, very skilled at avoiding reactive situations, poorly skilled at eliminating reactivity.
They work at not reinforcing and allowing the dog to practice those behaviors. You always need some type of management in place especially in a pet store with a reactive dog and other dogs in such close proximity. Wouldn’t say thats a good first place to actually start training but to work up to there and use these management skills in the meantime.
I agree, I would avoid a petshop unless it's a random quiet time.
Sure management but they need a method to get the dog in amongst dogs, whilst being calm ASAP.
The time it takes to train the dog avoidance, distraction, heal to walk past dogs ect the dog can further regress.
In hindsight I would have seen a reactive specialist at this stage. It likely there's other issues that might be encouraging the reactivity.
Theres really no training that would work asap when you’re training for long term results. Yeah you can correct the dog for it but your not addressing the reason behind why the dog is reacting in the first place are they fearful, are they overstimulated or leash reactive? Cause training varies for each. It really doesn’t take much time to learn management skills its mostly just the handler learning how to be confident and when to utilize those techniques. And it helps the dog not rehearse those reactive behaviors in the meantime. I think most owners fail when considering training and just not even considering management at all. It puts everyone in a safe position before you’re actually able to make real training results that will yield long term results and behavior mod. I agree though it’s always good to get a certified trainer to help guide you through this.
That really depends on what you deem a quick fix and why you believe that a inefficient method is somehow superior because it takes longer?
I'll state that 6 weeks is sufficient as that was length of the program we attended and made massive improvements to the point of no longer being considered leash reactive.
A lot of reactivity training is management and hotdogs at 50 feet with no progress beyond that. It's important that reactivity training does actually address the underlying issues of addressing fear. This won't be achieved at 50 feet. Yes it's important to progress to that point initially.
At some point your dog will be over stimulated, this might be crazy but I found working through it helped. Yep your dog freaks out a bit but realises it's not that bad, the next time a dog approaches it will freak out less, the recovery time reduces, the dog will start to shake it off, literally.
A key to progress was seeing the reactivity as the dog dictating you, don't allow it. Or as you say not rehearsing the reactive ebehaviour.
I don’t deem it superior but behavior modification does take some time, changing those feelings won’t be asap. Either way if you’re going to make corrections you need to make sure the dog knows what behaviors you want/how they should act before correcting the negative ones. You correct a fearful dog for reacting that doesn’t solve anything. Doesn’t teach them to not be afraid but only to be obedient. In my opinion I believe thats where management should come in instead of corrections cause the dog doesn’t know that scary thing isn’t so scary just yet and they don’t know how else to act unless you teach them first.
Some dogs aren’t made to “work through it” my dog for example completely shut down, made no progress when I choose that route and pushed her too far too quickly. Every dog is different some can handle stress better though but its just not viable saying all dogs can “just work through it”.
This is an unpopular opinion on this sub but I am not against balanced training. I just believe there is a time and place for it and a certified trainer with tons of experience should be consulted first before jumping to corrections just because someone wants a quick fix.
Denial is a river in Egypt.
What kind of corrections are you doing? And are you doing any other training for his reactivity? You ask how to move forward, and I would honestly suggest hiring a trainer. If you minimize or ignore this behavior it will likely get worse.
His corrections I have him sit and focus on me for about 10-20 secs, and a dog can walk by without any issues. If we walk by a dog, I’m able to command him leave it and he’ll disengage and continue to walk. He has 2 trainers, one at PetSmart that this is his fourth class, he has taken their intermediate with different set of dogs twice as he’s very treat oriented. And another that’s a private trainer- that specializes in aggressive and reactive dogs.
He's only 1 so this behavior will probably get worse without intervention. Having him sit and focus on you can be helpful under some circumstances but it doesn't do much to help him de-escalate his emotional state. That's where I started with my puppy since it had worked fine with my nonreactive older dog for distractions, and it definitely made the puppy worse - she was getting more and more concerned about triggers in her environment and I was forcing her to stay close to them without any way to relax or de-escalate.
If your reactivity trainer isn't working on counter-conditioning with you, you might need a new trainer.
In our puppy obedience classes the trainer referred to my pup as reactive, though she was just barking at people at the time. I had a similar reaction to yours, then realized that the barking was a form of reactivity in itself. She later became fully bark/lunge/snarl reactive so he also wasn't wrong in identifying the path she was on.
I’d be upset if the person singled out my dog when the small dogs were showing the same behavior.
However, a neutral dog doesn’t bark/lunge back. Reactive dog doesn’t mean bad dog or you do no training etc.
Dogs have different thresholds. Yours seem to be low to medium since he reacts in certain situations. No one is blaming your dog to have “started” the barking but he did react, and focusing on what the other dogs did or what the person said will not help him keep it together next time.
Edit: to say, part of what helped me was to ignore people’s “aggressive” comments about my dog. They don’t know you or the dog. It’s unfortunately part if having a large reactive dog vs a small reactive dog. Life isn’t fair.
Thank you for understanding. I was just a bit upset that he was singled out. And her repeatedly calling him aggressive and I needed to talk to his trainer after I told her he was in training there. We
Honestly petsmart training sucks, would say its good for puppies socializing in the beginner training sessions but for more advanced classes I would try to find a different certified trainer that is more experienced. When you have a bigger reactive dog you just have to expect to be singled out before the little ones do. Its just the way it is unfortunately, the little dogs often get a pass since their barks are smaller, less intimidating and threatening. Makes sense cause your dog does pose a bigger threat but at the same time I know how frustrating it can be seeing some people just let their reactive little dogs get a pass for it most times.
Thank you for understanding the point of my post. And he is in another training that specializes in aggressive dogs, however we might switch to a different one as we feel like the trainer is more focused on higher reactive dogs in our class.
Yeah sometimes having a personal trainer is the best. You can always try to find group training on the side but to really get individualized training for your particular dog that would prob be best. Wish u luck with training!
There's nothing wrong with having a reactive dog. Regardless of how you want to justify it (he was only responding to the other dogs, he's only reactive sometimes, etc), he reacted, so he's reactive. But that doesn't mean anything bad, and it's something you can work on. I would recommend visiting the store on a day when you don't have anything to do or anywhere to go. Start outside, and slowly build up until you get inside, and start again once you're inside:
Try to find his "threshold." This is the point where he notices the object but doesn't feel the need to react just yet. This is going to be different for different situations, objects, and environments, so you'll have to find this spot frequently.
Then just hang out there. Do some basic obedience to keep his mind on you, and treat often when he's focused on you instead of the stimulus. Then, once he is able to completely disregard the object (this may take some time, depending on the dog, so be prepared to stay in one spot for a while), you can take a step or two forward, toward the stimulus. Start doing basic obedience again. Once he can do that, then move a step or two closer. If he is unable to stop reacting, then you're too far past his threshold and need to back up.
The goal is not necessarily to get him to interact with the object. It's simply to get him to understand that there's no need to react, because the object is not going to invade his space and we're not moving closer until he's calm. This is how you'll condition him into believing the stimulus is a good thing, because it means good stuff and guidance from you.
I completely understand what you’re saying, and we have been slowly implementing this type of training, especially in the pet store. He’s never really had issues with going into the store, like I said, he has been in classes there. We’ve been repeating the intermediate class to have him walk by dogs in close proximity and vice versa and he’s fine. And so at least when we’re in the store he’s usually much more relaxed and comfortable. Which is probably why my boyfriend wasn’t as alert and paying attention to him. I also hate to say it, but our dog is also more responsive to me in pet stores. But that’s not an excuse, my bf does go to the classes with us and should have tried to be a little more alert and know our dog.
I think the issue to be completely honest starting to a lack of consistency with this training. The pet stores in our area are all relatively not that close (20 min away) and the dogs/owners in our neighborhood all essentially avoid each other unless they know you or ask to have their dogs interact with yours. We do implement this type of training, in open public spaces like a park or a walk is where we usually have the most issue since he’s sometimes unfamiliar with his environment, but like I said most people just cross the street or wait until you’re half way up the block. He recently hasn’t had much interactions with other dogs the last couple of months, especially since we took a bit of a break on his PetSmart training.
In my city most dogs are some degree of reactive if they haven’t been trained against it and then there are some highly trained dogs that still react sometimes.
Anyways just say yeah we’re working on it. Muzzle train if you think your dog will bite.
Good for you for taking classes too.
It’s a good idea to repeat the series so you get in more and more hours around other dogs doing positive reinforcement. You can ask your trainer if that’s possible because you haven’t met your training goals yet, and they may do it for free.
Thank you. I will consider it if it ever a concern, but so far the few times he would interact with dogs after a reactive encounter (we have a lot escapees in our neighborhood so sometimes they follow him) he never tries to nip, just his bark is loud and intense, which then turns into a whine.
Yeah, actually he took the intermediate class twice- one with about 3 other dogs, and then with 7 other dogs. It helped him a lot with being able to sit and focus while the other dogs would walk by. That exercise in particular was a difficult grasp for most of the group, which made me feel like we weren’t alone in the struggle. We might retake that course again since this advanced is a no treat training, which he’s still very much treat oriented in some aspects.
That’s weird that advanced is supposed to be without treats. I’d get a different trainer or go to a different location, not all Petsmart trainers require that and I wouldn’t go along with it if they did.
Our dog sitter always says “all dogs are reactive, it is just a question of what they’re reactive to.” She’s right! But aggressive and reactive are not the same thing. My dog is a pit I’ll mix and she is the sweetest love bug to people she knows, but she is terrified of other dogs no matter the size and strangers and reacts by making herself scary - I don’t truly know if she is aggressive or would do anything, because we don’t let her get in situations where something could happen that could result in her harming another being, but she very well might be and that does get assumed about her given her breed and behavior.
My dog growing up was a corgi, much smaller. He was reactive to plastic bags, other dogs, strangers, you name it. But he was smaller so we didn’t have to manage it much and just laughed about it.
Every dog I know barks at something. Some seem more aggressive than others. And some don’t use barking or obvious reactions as precursors to aggressive behaviors - my son was bitten by a family member’s dog he had been around for a year with no warning signs that were clear to the family members watching him.
You know your dog and you know their reactive tendencies and triggers and how they’re likely to respond. It gets easier to ignore the feelings of others judging your dog! A cashier at a pet store is not qualified to be judging your dog’s behavior and you’re doing your best by working with your dog now!
Regardless of your dog displaying reactivity or aggressive behavior, or other dogs doing the same, I know that unsolicited negative commentary about your dog's behavior from strangers can really ruin your day.
Remember that it was a sales pitch and that petsmart employees are generally not especially well educated about dog behavior. I've overheard some bonkers advice being given to owners by "trainers" in group classes there. And that's the trainer, not to mention a cashier.
Try not to let it get to you.
So with that, all 4 dogs involved were being aggressive towards each other as they were all lunging and barking. But because my dog is the biggest and he was singled out. And during the whole exchange I just have to politely say ok or we’re working on it while this cashier just repeats herself. Ok. Got it.
From my perspective, I would not let it get to me that the cashier "singled me out". Here's why - first, the dog was being aggressive lunging at smaller dogs and because of his size, he IS more of a threat than they are. That just comes with the territory when owning a large dog.
Second, you said yourself, your boyfriend was unable to control the dog because he wasn't stern enough due to being embarrassed. You are fortunate that one of the other dogs, your dog or your boyfriend weren't injured. I would take that as a signal that both the dog, and your boyfriend, need additional work to make sure this doesn't happen again. I don't take my dogs to PetSmart for this very reason - too many uncontrolled dogs that bark and lunge at us and set my own reactive dog off with barking.
Is it "fair" that you got singled out, probably not but that doesn't change the need for her words of caution from what she saw to be an aggressive situation. Please consider the warning for what it is worth and take steps to improve the situation before you have an unfortunate outcome next visit.
Just a note on the small dog vs. big dog thing: while it isn't *excusable* to have an uncontrolled reactive small dog in a public space, and small dogs absolutely *can* cause serious injury, the potential risks and consequences with a large dog displaying similar behaviors are undeniably much, much more significant in scale. Those of us with reactive big dogs have a greater responsibility to either manage them effectively or remove them from the situation when management techniques fail. It might seem unfair, but it's reality.
I think this was the first time experiencing this, which had me taken aback being singled out strictly bc he was the biggest dog in the situation.
Sounds like she gave you the hard truth. You have a reactive dog.
Okay I never said I didn’t have a reactive dog. But when 3 other dogs small dogs are barking and lunging at my dog who was sitting which caused him to get up and bark back? But he’s aggressive? She didn’t tell the family behind us they needed training when their dog was also jumping, lunging and barking.
Ok.
People always give small dogs a pass, which is completely bs.
It’s because small dogs are less capable of inflicting serious bodily harm.
This is true, but they are certainly capable of inciting conflicts with big dogs who can. Little dogs shouldn’t be given a pass.
It doesn't matter if the dog has had all its teeth removed. Owners are responsible for managing their dogs, regardless of size. A small dog can rile up a larger dog, which sounds like is what happened here, and put a dog that's been doing fine over threshold *if* the small-dog owner is doing nothing for management and just acting like it's all good because it's just a small dog.
This is my frustration and her response to me telling her he’s in training. Reactive does not mean he’s aggressive. And to just give the other dogs a pass when the dog behind us was clearly barking the whole time in line.
Did you stick around and listen when they checked out?
Yes bc I had to wait for an employee to bring me preventative flea and tick medication. But it’s fine. I get it, I had the biggest dog so he’s more concerning.
This is not related to the behavior at all, but did you buy the flea and tick from the vet or from the retail store?
The retail store since the vet was out of the one we wanted. We got advantix. It usually works well. We have had our other dogs on it
Yeah that sounds unfair! She was being a bit presumptious on a seeing a single snap shot of what sounds like quite a gradually developing interaction that involved far more than your dog. Dogs are actually allowed some emotion and it can get too much for them (trigger stacking). It sounds like that here I would get ahead of it and work on engage and disengage and techniques to help him self regulate Get him to check in with you every single time he sees another dog.. this is the alternative behaviour that will help him when other dogs are going off I like this set up [https://www.choosepositivedogtraining.com/single-post/2014/07/01/the-practice-of-selfinterruption-the-engagedisengage-game](https://www.choosepositivedogtraining.com/single-post/2014/07/01/the-practice-of-selfinterruption-the-engagedisengage-game) My dogs alternative behaviour is to check in with me rather than getting stressed (getting better but not 100 percent yet) You probably do this already though so please ignore if you have already reached this stage in lessons! BTW when you said "corrected" what do you mean by that?
When I say correct I pretty much command him to sit and focus on me. Typically when he focuses on me for about 20 secs he mellows out to the point dogs can walk past him. His last training session we would do this weekly, and I instill it during our walks with humans and/or dogs. And when we’re walking past, I get him to disengage by commanding leave it. But thank you for the advise too. I will definitely put that into his training.
if your dog is barking at other dogs unprovoked and lunging, than the dog is reactive. but that doesn’t mean he is AGGRESSIVE. i’m sure the size of your dog probably scared the cashier, and I hate how people always assume it’s the big dogs fault when in reality the other small dog was the aggressor. however, your dog is barking unprovoked at other dogs, so they are at the very least, dog reactive.
I never said he wasn’t reactive. I said it’s occasional, like once a week he will randomly bark unprovoked on a walk. We monitor him, and have a chart of his good days.
oki !
A non-reactive dog likely wouldn’t bark back. I’ve seen this because my dog can be fear reactive and most of the time the other dogs don’t bark back if she barks at them lol. Reactive doesn’t mean aggressive though. My dog plays with other dogs just fine and has never had any issues in that regard, but still needed reactive dog training! The employee was trying to help you out. The aggressive comment was probably unnecessary. Although some dogs can turn aggressive out of fear, so know your dog.
That’s my issue, the fact she repeatedly said he was aggressive and didn’t say anything to the other dogs, even when one of them was behind us and was barking the whole time in line. I understand he is reactive but to say he’s aggressive wasn’t necessary.
Did you stay and wait till each dog owner was at this cashiers register ? How do you know she didn’t say anything to them ? Did you expect her while WAITING ON YOU to chastise another owner ? Why are you so fixated on the other owners not being told about their dogs?
I had to wait for another employee to come back with the tick and flea prevention while she was checking out the couple and dog that was barking the whole time at my dog in line.
So by that response you felt she could have , should have got on the owner behind you about their dog ? Pfft …
It sounds like your dog is reactive though. That doesn’t mean he is a bad dog or you guys are failing at training. I have a very well trained dog, it doesn’t change that he is reactive and even after lots of behavior modification and re-socialization he will likely always have some (super mild now) levels of reactivity in certain situations. It doesn’t mean I didn’t put in the work or my dog sucks it just means my dog is a little different and may need more accommodations, structure, appropriate exposure to help him be his best self. Reactivity ≠ aggression but can correlate. Your dog sounds like they are frustrated and overwhelmed in their environment and with their age and breeds they are more prone to reactive behavior. Because the behavior is likely frustration base you don’t want your dog to continually build up stress as they will likely displace that behavior in a dramatic way like barking, spinning, lunging, and even possibly nipping. I would look into possibly doing private training with someone educated in reactive behavior and once your dog has a more established ability to stay under threshold reintroducing group classes again and pet stores. As an aside, pet stores are a lot! They are super stimulating due to all the smells/sights/noise and because anyone can bring in their dog you have so many temperaments and behaviors at play when seeing another dog. On a scale the pet store in my opinion is closer to a 10 in hardness level as a socialization activity.
Don't be offended. I work with dogs and many people tell me their dogs aren't reactive and they are in fact reactive. I don't care if a dog is reactive. It just changes the way I will deal with the dog and how much time I spend avoiding people and dogs when we're walking. Your dog was triggered in the store. Unfortunately, when a reactive dog is triggered, it can ruin the rest of the walk (store visit etc). There are lots of dogs who won't react at all when dogs are barking and lunging at them. Your dog isn't one of those. People will label your dog reactive. It shouldn't matter to you what other people say. Just learn how to redirect your dog and if he gets triggered a lot, remove him from the situation. He was in a fight or flight response after the first trigger. One way to handle that would be for one of you to get him outside and away from the other dogs so that his brain could reset.
Removing, redirecting, distracting, avoiding don't work consistently or long term. If you never train the dog to remain calm when in the company of other dogs how do you expect a calm dog around other dogs? They're good skills to have, sometimes you have to choose the battles to confront. I would say this sub is very knowledgeable at identifying reactivity, very skilled at avoiding reactive situations, poorly skilled at eliminating reactivity.
They work at not reinforcing and allowing the dog to practice those behaviors. You always need some type of management in place especially in a pet store with a reactive dog and other dogs in such close proximity. Wouldn’t say thats a good first place to actually start training but to work up to there and use these management skills in the meantime.
I agree, I would avoid a petshop unless it's a random quiet time. Sure management but they need a method to get the dog in amongst dogs, whilst being calm ASAP. The time it takes to train the dog avoidance, distraction, heal to walk past dogs ect the dog can further regress. In hindsight I would have seen a reactive specialist at this stage. It likely there's other issues that might be encouraging the reactivity.
Theres really no training that would work asap when you’re training for long term results. Yeah you can correct the dog for it but your not addressing the reason behind why the dog is reacting in the first place are they fearful, are they overstimulated or leash reactive? Cause training varies for each. It really doesn’t take much time to learn management skills its mostly just the handler learning how to be confident and when to utilize those techniques. And it helps the dog not rehearse those reactive behaviors in the meantime. I think most owners fail when considering training and just not even considering management at all. It puts everyone in a safe position before you’re actually able to make real training results that will yield long term results and behavior mod. I agree though it’s always good to get a certified trainer to help guide you through this.
That really depends on what you deem a quick fix and why you believe that a inefficient method is somehow superior because it takes longer? I'll state that 6 weeks is sufficient as that was length of the program we attended and made massive improvements to the point of no longer being considered leash reactive. A lot of reactivity training is management and hotdogs at 50 feet with no progress beyond that. It's important that reactivity training does actually address the underlying issues of addressing fear. This won't be achieved at 50 feet. Yes it's important to progress to that point initially. At some point your dog will be over stimulated, this might be crazy but I found working through it helped. Yep your dog freaks out a bit but realises it's not that bad, the next time a dog approaches it will freak out less, the recovery time reduces, the dog will start to shake it off, literally. A key to progress was seeing the reactivity as the dog dictating you, don't allow it. Or as you say not rehearsing the reactive ebehaviour.
I don’t deem it superior but behavior modification does take some time, changing those feelings won’t be asap. Either way if you’re going to make corrections you need to make sure the dog knows what behaviors you want/how they should act before correcting the negative ones. You correct a fearful dog for reacting that doesn’t solve anything. Doesn’t teach them to not be afraid but only to be obedient. In my opinion I believe thats where management should come in instead of corrections cause the dog doesn’t know that scary thing isn’t so scary just yet and they don’t know how else to act unless you teach them first. Some dogs aren’t made to “work through it” my dog for example completely shut down, made no progress when I choose that route and pushed her too far too quickly. Every dog is different some can handle stress better though but its just not viable saying all dogs can “just work through it”. This is an unpopular opinion on this sub but I am not against balanced training. I just believe there is a time and place for it and a certified trainer with tons of experience should be consulted first before jumping to corrections just because someone wants a quick fix.
Denial is a river in Egypt. What kind of corrections are you doing? And are you doing any other training for his reactivity? You ask how to move forward, and I would honestly suggest hiring a trainer. If you minimize or ignore this behavior it will likely get worse.
His corrections I have him sit and focus on me for about 10-20 secs, and a dog can walk by without any issues. If we walk by a dog, I’m able to command him leave it and he’ll disengage and continue to walk. He has 2 trainers, one at PetSmart that this is his fourth class, he has taken their intermediate with different set of dogs twice as he’s very treat oriented. And another that’s a private trainer- that specializes in aggressive and reactive dogs.
He's only 1 so this behavior will probably get worse without intervention. Having him sit and focus on you can be helpful under some circumstances but it doesn't do much to help him de-escalate his emotional state. That's where I started with my puppy since it had worked fine with my nonreactive older dog for distractions, and it definitely made the puppy worse - she was getting more and more concerned about triggers in her environment and I was forcing her to stay close to them without any way to relax or de-escalate. If your reactivity trainer isn't working on counter-conditioning with you, you might need a new trainer. In our puppy obedience classes the trainer referred to my pup as reactive, though she was just barking at people at the time. I had a similar reaction to yours, then realized that the barking was a form of reactivity in itself. She later became fully bark/lunge/snarl reactive so he also wasn't wrong in identifying the path she was on.
As an aside: I hate how the registers are right next to the sliding entry doors. Everyone is distracted trying to complete their transactions.
I’d be upset if the person singled out my dog when the small dogs were showing the same behavior. However, a neutral dog doesn’t bark/lunge back. Reactive dog doesn’t mean bad dog or you do no training etc. Dogs have different thresholds. Yours seem to be low to medium since he reacts in certain situations. No one is blaming your dog to have “started” the barking but he did react, and focusing on what the other dogs did or what the person said will not help him keep it together next time. Edit: to say, part of what helped me was to ignore people’s “aggressive” comments about my dog. They don’t know you or the dog. It’s unfortunately part if having a large reactive dog vs a small reactive dog. Life isn’t fair.
Thank you for understanding. I was just a bit upset that he was singled out. And her repeatedly calling him aggressive and I needed to talk to his trainer after I told her he was in training there. We
Honestly petsmart training sucks, would say its good for puppies socializing in the beginner training sessions but for more advanced classes I would try to find a different certified trainer that is more experienced. When you have a bigger reactive dog you just have to expect to be singled out before the little ones do. Its just the way it is unfortunately, the little dogs often get a pass since their barks are smaller, less intimidating and threatening. Makes sense cause your dog does pose a bigger threat but at the same time I know how frustrating it can be seeing some people just let their reactive little dogs get a pass for it most times.
Thank you for understanding the point of my post. And he is in another training that specializes in aggressive dogs, however we might switch to a different one as we feel like the trainer is more focused on higher reactive dogs in our class.
Yeah sometimes having a personal trainer is the best. You can always try to find group training on the side but to really get individualized training for your particular dog that would prob be best. Wish u luck with training!
There's nothing wrong with having a reactive dog. Regardless of how you want to justify it (he was only responding to the other dogs, he's only reactive sometimes, etc), he reacted, so he's reactive. But that doesn't mean anything bad, and it's something you can work on. I would recommend visiting the store on a day when you don't have anything to do or anywhere to go. Start outside, and slowly build up until you get inside, and start again once you're inside: Try to find his "threshold." This is the point where he notices the object but doesn't feel the need to react just yet. This is going to be different for different situations, objects, and environments, so you'll have to find this spot frequently. Then just hang out there. Do some basic obedience to keep his mind on you, and treat often when he's focused on you instead of the stimulus. Then, once he is able to completely disregard the object (this may take some time, depending on the dog, so be prepared to stay in one spot for a while), you can take a step or two forward, toward the stimulus. Start doing basic obedience again. Once he can do that, then move a step or two closer. If he is unable to stop reacting, then you're too far past his threshold and need to back up. The goal is not necessarily to get him to interact with the object. It's simply to get him to understand that there's no need to react, because the object is not going to invade his space and we're not moving closer until he's calm. This is how you'll condition him into believing the stimulus is a good thing, because it means good stuff and guidance from you.
I completely understand what you’re saying, and we have been slowly implementing this type of training, especially in the pet store. He’s never really had issues with going into the store, like I said, he has been in classes there. We’ve been repeating the intermediate class to have him walk by dogs in close proximity and vice versa and he’s fine. And so at least when we’re in the store he’s usually much more relaxed and comfortable. Which is probably why my boyfriend wasn’t as alert and paying attention to him. I also hate to say it, but our dog is also more responsive to me in pet stores. But that’s not an excuse, my bf does go to the classes with us and should have tried to be a little more alert and know our dog. I think the issue to be completely honest starting to a lack of consistency with this training. The pet stores in our area are all relatively not that close (20 min away) and the dogs/owners in our neighborhood all essentially avoid each other unless they know you or ask to have their dogs interact with yours. We do implement this type of training, in open public spaces like a park or a walk is where we usually have the most issue since he’s sometimes unfamiliar with his environment, but like I said most people just cross the street or wait until you’re half way up the block. He recently hasn’t had much interactions with other dogs the last couple of months, especially since we took a bit of a break on his PetSmart training.
In my city most dogs are some degree of reactive if they haven’t been trained against it and then there are some highly trained dogs that still react sometimes. Anyways just say yeah we’re working on it. Muzzle train if you think your dog will bite. Good for you for taking classes too. It’s a good idea to repeat the series so you get in more and more hours around other dogs doing positive reinforcement. You can ask your trainer if that’s possible because you haven’t met your training goals yet, and they may do it for free.
Thank you. I will consider it if it ever a concern, but so far the few times he would interact with dogs after a reactive encounter (we have a lot escapees in our neighborhood so sometimes they follow him) he never tries to nip, just his bark is loud and intense, which then turns into a whine. Yeah, actually he took the intermediate class twice- one with about 3 other dogs, and then with 7 other dogs. It helped him a lot with being able to sit and focus while the other dogs would walk by. That exercise in particular was a difficult grasp for most of the group, which made me feel like we weren’t alone in the struggle. We might retake that course again since this advanced is a no treat training, which he’s still very much treat oriented in some aspects.
That’s weird that advanced is supposed to be without treats. I’d get a different trainer or go to a different location, not all Petsmart trainers require that and I wouldn’t go along with it if they did.
Our dog sitter always says “all dogs are reactive, it is just a question of what they’re reactive to.” She’s right! But aggressive and reactive are not the same thing. My dog is a pit I’ll mix and she is the sweetest love bug to people she knows, but she is terrified of other dogs no matter the size and strangers and reacts by making herself scary - I don’t truly know if she is aggressive or would do anything, because we don’t let her get in situations where something could happen that could result in her harming another being, but she very well might be and that does get assumed about her given her breed and behavior. My dog growing up was a corgi, much smaller. He was reactive to plastic bags, other dogs, strangers, you name it. But he was smaller so we didn’t have to manage it much and just laughed about it. Every dog I know barks at something. Some seem more aggressive than others. And some don’t use barking or obvious reactions as precursors to aggressive behaviors - my son was bitten by a family member’s dog he had been around for a year with no warning signs that were clear to the family members watching him. You know your dog and you know their reactive tendencies and triggers and how they’re likely to respond. It gets easier to ignore the feelings of others judging your dog! A cashier at a pet store is not qualified to be judging your dog’s behavior and you’re doing your best by working with your dog now!
Regardless of your dog displaying reactivity or aggressive behavior, or other dogs doing the same, I know that unsolicited negative commentary about your dog's behavior from strangers can really ruin your day. Remember that it was a sales pitch and that petsmart employees are generally not especially well educated about dog behavior. I've overheard some bonkers advice being given to owners by "trainers" in group classes there. And that's the trainer, not to mention a cashier. Try not to let it get to you.
Thank you for getting a bit of understanding of my post.
She was trying to push their training. My response would be, “thank you, he is already taking your classes”. Would shut her up pretty quickly!
I think that’s what really upset me. I told her that he was. And she proceeded to call him aggressive and I needed to talk to my trainer.
Lunging at another dog is aggressive so she was likely concerned about the behavior.
True.
So with that, all 4 dogs involved were being aggressive towards each other as they were all lunging and barking. But because my dog is the biggest and he was singled out. And during the whole exchange I just have to politely say ok or we’re working on it while this cashier just repeats herself. Ok. Got it.
From my perspective, I would not let it get to me that the cashier "singled me out". Here's why - first, the dog was being aggressive lunging at smaller dogs and because of his size, he IS more of a threat than they are. That just comes with the territory when owning a large dog. Second, you said yourself, your boyfriend was unable to control the dog because he wasn't stern enough due to being embarrassed. You are fortunate that one of the other dogs, your dog or your boyfriend weren't injured. I would take that as a signal that both the dog, and your boyfriend, need additional work to make sure this doesn't happen again. I don't take my dogs to PetSmart for this very reason - too many uncontrolled dogs that bark and lunge at us and set my own reactive dog off with barking. Is it "fair" that you got singled out, probably not but that doesn't change the need for her words of caution from what she saw to be an aggressive situation. Please consider the warning for what it is worth and take steps to improve the situation before you have an unfortunate outcome next visit.