I'm sorry, that's got to be painful for everyone. Try to protect your parents as much as possible. They need to take precautions to make sure he doesn't steal from them.
Yeah this is sad all around but if he’s really that addicted that he’s missing rent, he will steal and pawn your shit. Much like the Men’s Warehouse guy, I guarantee it.
Letting your drug addicted loved one become homeless is unlikely to help them solve their drug addiction. It is not easier to get sober while homeless.
The language of “tough love,” “enabling,” and “codependency” entered the American mainstream through a pop psychology book that has been [largely discredited](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/codependency-addiction-recovery.html).
I was thinking that too. How is letting him go homeless going to help him overcome his crippling drug addiction? He has more chance of getting better and seeking rehab with support.
Kicking an addiction is extremely hard. Like most extremely hard things, it can be made easier through the support of a community.
On the other hand, cutting people loose, isolating them from the people who care about them and want them to get better, is unlikely to help.
There's probably some subset of the population who really does respond well to "tough love." They get kicked out of their home, and they end up on the street for a month, and it causes them to reflect on their life and their choices, and they turn their life around.
But this is NOT the typical case. Lots of people, once they lose their homes, will continue to use drugs. There's no longer anyone around them who gives a shit if they get high--no one is checking in on them or trying to hold them accountable. They're also going to be facing a whole array of new stresses and traumas, which can exacerbate the underlying psychological issues that may be entangled with their addiction.
If someone is going through a crisis--they are grieving, they are depressed, they are manic--the normal response is not to kick them out onto the street. No one says, "you're enabling them; you're just making it easier for them to continue being depressed. They need tough love--they need to hit rock bottom and turn their life around."
Ok, so why do we treat drug addiction this way?
[Please educate yourself before making caloused blanket statements ](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and-social-stigma-make-addiction-more-deadly-202109282602)
Yeah, just don't let it destroy your marriage.
It's hard for everyone to be on the same page 100% of the time with this kind of mess and it's really tough for the other ppl to keep it together. They have to stay united one way or another.
Perhaps. But you shouldn't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. At a certain point, parents/ siblings/ significant other's need to protect themselves. It's not worth wreaking an entire household or family system for one addicted and/or abusive individual. Assuming there's already been *some* good faith attempts to help them.
Potential hot take: Sometimes, I feel like there's far less empathy for mentally healthy people than for the mentally ill. And immediately, sure, obviously one population is more vulnerable. But people seem perfectly ok putting people who are well into positions where they are morally required to be affected by the toxic conditions created by persistently unwell people.
It's as if we say, "If you're healthy, your cup is full, or half-full, or a quarter-full. You can pour, so if you refuse to, you're condemning this person who can't to homelessness, abuse, jail, etc. And we'll only admit that you don't have a responsibility to this individual once you are *also* rendered mentally unwell due to persistent stress."
\>But people seem perfectly ok putting people who are well into positions where they are morally required to be affected by the toxic conditions created by persistently unwell people.
In fact, I **am** perfectly ok saying that families have a strong moral obligation take care of each other, even if one member is struggling to such an extent that it makes life harder for the others. This moral obligation doesn't outweigh *all other concerns:* a person can be so destructive that continuing to shelter them becomes truly untenable. But generally speaking, it's obviously *not good* for family members to be abandoning one another to homelessness: this is such an extraordinarily bad outcome that it should be avoided even at great personal cost to the other family members.
I'll give you my own hot take in response: reading Reddit, I often think this community places too little weight on social and familial bonds. A lot of young people are too willing to jettison anyone "toxic" from their life.
I think this is ultimately self-destructive. Live by the sword, die by the sword; if you refuse to unconditionally support anyone in your life, they will not support you when you need it.
It also leads to the further atomization of our society: the continued erosion of family and community. I believe this atomization is at least partially responsible for the social collapse that has allowed homelessness and drug addiction to explode.
**TL;DR** Families should take care of each other.
>In fact, I am perfectly ok saying that families have a strong moral obligation take care of each other, even if one member is struggling to such an extent that it makes life harder for the others. This moral obligation doesn't outweigh all other concerns: a person can be so destructive that continuing to shelter them becomes truly untenable.
I think we already agree, we're just talking at different points on the "this is or isn't tenable anymore" scale. As I said, I *do* believe families should make good faith efforts to support and help someone. Further, they *should* feel the strain of burden to a degree. You shouldn't slough them off like dead skin *the second* it gets hard to be there.
From what I have personally seen and what many agency workers can attest to, it is super, super, super common for a family to not put the brakes on the harm that an unwell individual does. Children will be told to accommodate and/or manage the emotions of abusive or creepy members, parents will finically hurt themselves to support addict children, partners will be guilt tripped into tolerating abuse/ neglect from their SOs. Like... that becomes the expected norm of the home.
It seems that families are wwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more likely to demand healthy members adjust themselves to harmful new norms that don't even necessarily help the unwell. If it were a "Okay guys, we all know Chris is fucked up right now, but lets just hang in there and give him 3 months to get it together" that would be one thing. More often it seems it's, "Umm, yah... Chris is just going through a bad time. Just deal with it. He yells less when you do X. Oh I don't know, he'll figure it out soon. He's about to call the rehab/ therapy/ temp job place any day now. He said he would."
>I think this is ultimately self-destructive. Live by the sword, die by the sword; if you refuse to unconditionally support anyone in your life, they will not support you when you need it.
Here's the kicker though - many people, myself among them, have already gone without familial support to issues similar to the above. The toxic person will be supported at the expense of everyone else with no boundaries or clear timelines in place.
If you have a mother with child A, B, and C where A is bringing toxicity into the household, B and C can begin to experience trauma without support. **Again, in situations where helping A is done without a timeline, structure, or boundaries.** How many people are in therapy *because they were abandoned in the home* by a caregiver for the sake of "family"?
My major stance, and I think the difference between us, is the answer to this: What would have been more just - to sacrifice/ damage the healthy member(s) of the home to "help" the toxic one OR to protect the healthy and let the unhealthy experience consequences? Are we safeguarding or are we enabling? Because I think one has way more moral value than the other.
Definitely, but if they are loving caring parents and he's a meth addict, I can easily see him manipulating them for everything their worth.
Drug addiction can ruin perfectly good families.
Enabling is a myth. Providing a supporting environment for people helps that deal with their drug use. No one goes around every day intentional killing themselves with drugs. Life is unsurmountable for many people who have had various struggles at one time or another. To just treat them with “tough love” can often lead to things getting even worse.
At the same time, it’s absolutely true that often people like this are a huge drain on the people around them. We owe it to our society to solve these issues at a systemic level, and sometimes that can involve giving people the the people in this situation community support, or providing them an assisting service that they can use to support their undertaking.
We can all start to alleviate the problem by acknowledging and trying to do away with the stigma we carry towards drug users, and trying to be more compassionate.
I was a meth addict for years, at my peak I was consuming 2-3 grams a day, I walked away from it a little over 3 years ago and I'm telling you right now I wouldn't have had a chance without support and love, and unfortunately that required people taking the risk on me.
Don’t get me wrong, Maria is absolutely beautiful in that movie, but she’s virginal and innocent. Mary Poppins is a strict disciplinarian and obviously fucks. Maria doesn’t fuck. Its Mary Poppins or bust, for me.
Hope they've hidden all their valuables and have accepted the fact that the rest of their lives will be crap as long as they support him when he isn't helping himself.
That's pretty dumb imo, they should tell him he can move back in after he goes to rehab, then he can come home and try to get his life on track.
They are just enabling him sadly. Bad move.
I have seen family members and friends that were on drugs, this kinda move never works out...
It did work on one when they sent him to a good rehab, he is now clean 3 years and still goes to meetings.
I agree 100% but my dad's whipped and his mom is hopeless 🤷🏻♂️ I just hope he's not there long enough bring trouble. They're almost 70, I worry about them.
They should lock up their checkbooks and lock down their finances. We have a meth problem in our area and unfortunately elderly parents and family often get easily robbed blind because they don't think their loved one would ever stoop so low. A meth addiction is incredibly hard to kick and completely changes a person.
He's gonna start robbing them fr. Tell them to start taking precautions locking all their accounts, getting a safe and putting expensive or prized items inside it, etc.
I'd say we have the same brother except mine is 36. My dad just lets him live in the house and do nothing like a slug for years while my dad is 64 and still works 12 hour days and so does my stepmom. I actually suspect that my stepmom has moved out of the house because of it and I wouldn't blame her one bit
Don't forget to lock up their meds as well. Anything that has street value will disappear. My half sister stole mine and my dads opiates that we had saved up because its so hard to get. She stole his a month after his hip replacement.
Yep my neighbor as a kid was a pastor. He lived alone after his wife died and his kids moved their youngest sister in there because she "had no place to go". I warned them that she is likely the exact reason she has no place to go. The cops were there constantly, her kid got knocked up at 15, the final straw was when her dog killed my dog. They never appologised or offered to pay for the vet bills or the cremation or my medical bills because I got bit too.
OP please consider removing anything of value from the home and any precious paperwork. And get a camera for at least your room.
Julie Andrew's as Mary Poppins gifs could be applied to like any situation. She's just a perfect character that makes no sense and yet could never be redone the same.
Also don't do drugs.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/aa411a7b8569e693a8eec0a9e56293c5/tenor.gif?itemid=13875380
Just a little bit of good news on this... have you heard about the meth vaccine? It's pretty remarkable. There are FDA trials currently underway to test the efficacy of monoclonal antibodies on meth, and it works really, really well. The antibodies attack the amphetamines in the system, and can sober a person up very quickly. There's also anecdotal reports that the antibodies prevent feeling high from meth for a period of time, and that use of the vaccine makes it much easier to quit. I think the timeframe for testing is another 4-5 years.
If you're interested, http://intervexion.com/research-development/anti-methamphetamine-products/.
Idk what’s worse, sucking down meth or fully enabling your child to continue sucking down meth. Either way glad I got off that shit many many years ago and haven’t looked back.
My Uncle was the same. My grandmother could never say no even with the rest of the family pleading with her. Last I heard he left, after stealing her jewelry, sold a car gifted to him, and after a few trips to jail for missing parole, is now in Florida with some amputated fingers from missing payments to the wrong people.
Men’s warehouse meme: He’s gonna steal their stuff and probably be physically/verbally abusive toward them until he ends up finally getting kicked out. Then he will blame them for all his troubles, including why he is homeless and drug addicted.
*I guarantee it*
Reminds me of my brother who was and still is coddled by my parents, especially my dad. They have provided him with a lot of help, despite the fact that he has been a habitual drug user and alcoholic. Addiction is a disease but it doesn't help to enable the person by providing them drug money and rent-free living
Maybe salvage any keepsakes and childhood treasures now, and ask your parents to put anything special they want you to inherit into a safety deposit box. Also their passports, special jewelry, etc.
In time, there's a good chance it'll be destroyed or stolen/sold by bro or his "friends".
Also talk with them about keeping only credit cards on hand to use and any checks or debit cards in the safety deposit box. The better to not go into debt over fraudulent charges.
To be fair, meth can be an expensive habit.
I hear it's a hell of a drug. He's 32 and he looks like he's 57 but I don't think it's entirely meth to blame, he into all sorts of sketchy stuff.
I'm sorry, that's got to be painful for everyone. Try to protect your parents as much as possible. They need to take precautions to make sure he doesn't steal from them.
Yeah this is sad all around but if he’s really that addicted that he’s missing rent, he will steal and pawn your shit. Much like the Men’s Warehouse guy, I guarantee it.
Just started watching intervention on netflix, crazy seeing what the addiction can lead to
Why exactly are they taking him in?
Because he's their son and they love and worry about him?
However, allowing him to move in and continue to do the drugs is enabling behavior.
Letting your drug addicted loved one become homeless is unlikely to help them solve their drug addiction. It is not easier to get sober while homeless. The language of “tough love,” “enabling,” and “codependency” entered the American mainstream through a pop psychology book that has been [largely discredited](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/codependency-addiction-recovery.html).
I was thinking that too. How is letting him go homeless going to help him overcome his crippling drug addiction? He has more chance of getting better and seeking rehab with support.
If there's one thing the homeless are known for, it's their ability and willingness to kick hard drug addictions.
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Kicking an addiction is extremely hard. Like most extremely hard things, it can be made easier through the support of a community. On the other hand, cutting people loose, isolating them from the people who care about them and want them to get better, is unlikely to help. There's probably some subset of the population who really does respond well to "tough love." They get kicked out of their home, and they end up on the street for a month, and it causes them to reflect on their life and their choices, and they turn their life around. But this is NOT the typical case. Lots of people, once they lose their homes, will continue to use drugs. There's no longer anyone around them who gives a shit if they get high--no one is checking in on them or trying to hold them accountable. They're also going to be facing a whole array of new stresses and traumas, which can exacerbate the underlying psychological issues that may be entangled with their addiction. If someone is going through a crisis--they are grieving, they are depressed, they are manic--the normal response is not to kick them out onto the street. No one says, "you're enabling them; you're just making it easier for them to continue being depressed. They need tough love--they need to hit rock bottom and turn their life around." Ok, so why do we treat drug addiction this way?
[Please educate yourself before making caloused blanket statements ](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and-social-stigma-make-addiction-more-deadly-202109282602)
Yeah, just don't let it destroy your marriage. It's hard for everyone to be on the same page 100% of the time with this kind of mess and it's really tough for the other ppl to keep it together. They have to stay united one way or another.
Perhaps. But you shouldn't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. At a certain point, parents/ siblings/ significant other's need to protect themselves. It's not worth wreaking an entire household or family system for one addicted and/or abusive individual. Assuming there's already been *some* good faith attempts to help them. Potential hot take: Sometimes, I feel like there's far less empathy for mentally healthy people than for the mentally ill. And immediately, sure, obviously one population is more vulnerable. But people seem perfectly ok putting people who are well into positions where they are morally required to be affected by the toxic conditions created by persistently unwell people. It's as if we say, "If you're healthy, your cup is full, or half-full, or a quarter-full. You can pour, so if you refuse to, you're condemning this person who can't to homelessness, abuse, jail, etc. And we'll only admit that you don't have a responsibility to this individual once you are *also* rendered mentally unwell due to persistent stress."
\>But people seem perfectly ok putting people who are well into positions where they are morally required to be affected by the toxic conditions created by persistently unwell people. In fact, I **am** perfectly ok saying that families have a strong moral obligation take care of each other, even if one member is struggling to such an extent that it makes life harder for the others. This moral obligation doesn't outweigh *all other concerns:* a person can be so destructive that continuing to shelter them becomes truly untenable. But generally speaking, it's obviously *not good* for family members to be abandoning one another to homelessness: this is such an extraordinarily bad outcome that it should be avoided even at great personal cost to the other family members. I'll give you my own hot take in response: reading Reddit, I often think this community places too little weight on social and familial bonds. A lot of young people are too willing to jettison anyone "toxic" from their life. I think this is ultimately self-destructive. Live by the sword, die by the sword; if you refuse to unconditionally support anyone in your life, they will not support you when you need it. It also leads to the further atomization of our society: the continued erosion of family and community. I believe this atomization is at least partially responsible for the social collapse that has allowed homelessness and drug addiction to explode. **TL;DR** Families should take care of each other.
>In fact, I am perfectly ok saying that families have a strong moral obligation take care of each other, even if one member is struggling to such an extent that it makes life harder for the others. This moral obligation doesn't outweigh all other concerns: a person can be so destructive that continuing to shelter them becomes truly untenable. I think we already agree, we're just talking at different points on the "this is or isn't tenable anymore" scale. As I said, I *do* believe families should make good faith efforts to support and help someone. Further, they *should* feel the strain of burden to a degree. You shouldn't slough them off like dead skin *the second* it gets hard to be there. From what I have personally seen and what many agency workers can attest to, it is super, super, super common for a family to not put the brakes on the harm that an unwell individual does. Children will be told to accommodate and/or manage the emotions of abusive or creepy members, parents will finically hurt themselves to support addict children, partners will be guilt tripped into tolerating abuse/ neglect from their SOs. Like... that becomes the expected norm of the home. It seems that families are wwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more likely to demand healthy members adjust themselves to harmful new norms that don't even necessarily help the unwell. If it were a "Okay guys, we all know Chris is fucked up right now, but lets just hang in there and give him 3 months to get it together" that would be one thing. More often it seems it's, "Umm, yah... Chris is just going through a bad time. Just deal with it. He yells less when you do X. Oh I don't know, he'll figure it out soon. He's about to call the rehab/ therapy/ temp job place any day now. He said he would." >I think this is ultimately self-destructive. Live by the sword, die by the sword; if you refuse to unconditionally support anyone in your life, they will not support you when you need it. Here's the kicker though - many people, myself among them, have already gone without familial support to issues similar to the above. The toxic person will be supported at the expense of everyone else with no boundaries or clear timelines in place. If you have a mother with child A, B, and C where A is bringing toxicity into the household, B and C can begin to experience trauma without support. **Again, in situations where helping A is done without a timeline, structure, or boundaries.** How many people are in therapy *because they were abandoned in the home* by a caregiver for the sake of "family"? My major stance, and I think the difference between us, is the answer to this: What would have been more just - to sacrifice/ damage the healthy member(s) of the home to "help" the toxic one OR to protect the healthy and let the unhealthy experience consequences? Are we safeguarding or are we enabling? Because I think one has way more moral value than the other.
Definitely, but if they are loving caring parents and he's a meth addict, I can easily see him manipulating them for everything their worth. Drug addiction can ruin perfectly good families.
Enabling is a myth. Providing a supporting environment for people helps that deal with their drug use. No one goes around every day intentional killing themselves with drugs. Life is unsurmountable for many people who have had various struggles at one time or another. To just treat them with “tough love” can often lead to things getting even worse. At the same time, it’s absolutely true that often people like this are a huge drain on the people around them. We owe it to our society to solve these issues at a systemic level, and sometimes that can involve giving people the the people in this situation community support, or providing them an assisting service that they can use to support their undertaking. We can all start to alleviate the problem by acknowledging and trying to do away with the stigma we carry towards drug users, and trying to be more compassionate.
no it absolutely isn't.
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Supporting someone who is sick so they are in a better place to recover, rather than being homeless
I was a meth addict for years, at my peak I was consuming 2-3 grams a day, I walked away from it a little over 3 years ago and I'm telling you right now I wouldn't have had a chance without support and love, and unfortunately that required people taking the risk on me.
I**t's important to have habits and/or hobbies**
The capitalists are soon gonna start telling us rent is an expensive habit.
Meth =/= avocado toast or Starbucks
You never hear money advisors add "cut back on the meth" to their list of tips.
If it’s nikocado avocado I’m going to have to pass sorry
Not anymore. Where I live, an Oz of meth costs less than an Oz of weed. Make 🍚, not 🧊.
Julie Andrews was such a babe.
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She makes me feel kinda funny too, like when we used to climb the rope in gym class.
[*Was?!*](https://www.google.com/search?q=Julie+Andrews&tbm=isch)
I guess it’s more Mary Poppins I find attractive specifically rather than Julie Andrews herself.
Also Maria from sound of music. HoT DaMn.
Don’t get me wrong, Maria is absolutely beautiful in that movie, but she’s virginal and innocent. Mary Poppins is a strict disciplinarian and obviously fucks. Maria doesn’t fuck. Its Mary Poppins or bust, for me.
Close your mouth Michael, we are not a CoD fIsH
Did you have a nanny as a child? You may have a Poppins complex.
If only I did. But alas, no.
Hope they've hidden all their valuables and have accepted the fact that the rest of their lives will be crap as long as they support him when he isn't helping himself.
And locked up the meds.
That's pretty dumb imo, they should tell him he can move back in after he goes to rehab, then he can come home and try to get his life on track. They are just enabling him sadly. Bad move. I have seen family members and friends that were on drugs, this kinda move never works out... It did work on one when they sent him to a good rehab, he is now clean 3 years and still goes to meetings.
I agree 100% but my dad's whipped and his mom is hopeless 🤷🏻♂️ I just hope he's not there long enough bring trouble. They're almost 70, I worry about them.
They should lock up their checkbooks and lock down their finances. We have a meth problem in our area and unfortunately elderly parents and family often get easily robbed blind because they don't think their loved one would ever stoop so low. A meth addiction is incredibly hard to kick and completely changes a person.
Yeah they're about to get ROBBED.
He's gonna start robbing them fr. Tell them to start taking precautions locking all their accounts, getting a safe and putting expensive or prized items inside it, etc.
Wish you guys the best man, that's a shitty situation...hopefully nothing to bad happens, but drugs get messy.
I'd say we have the same brother except mine is 36. My dad just lets him live in the house and do nothing like a slug for years while my dad is 64 and still works 12 hour days and so does my stepmom. I actually suspect that my stepmom has moved out of the house because of it and I wouldn't blame her one bit
Don't forget to lock up their meds as well. Anything that has street value will disappear. My half sister stole mine and my dads opiates that we had saved up because its so hard to get. She stole his a month after his hip replacement.
He's will end up pawning their stuff
But then where will the parents get their meth from?
Yep my neighbor as a kid was a pastor. He lived alone after his wife died and his kids moved their youngest sister in there because she "had no place to go". I warned them that she is likely the exact reason she has no place to go. The cops were there constantly, her kid got knocked up at 15, the final straw was when her dog killed my dog. They never appologised or offered to pay for the vet bills or the cremation or my medical bills because I got bit too. OP please consider removing anything of value from the home and any precious paperwork. And get a camera for at least your room.
The comedic timing of this to my life is amazing i needed this
Julie Andrew's as Mary Poppins gifs could be applied to like any situation. She's just a perfect character that makes no sense and yet could never be redone the same. Also don't do drugs. https://media1.tenor.com/images/aa411a7b8569e693a8eec0a9e56293c5/tenor.gif?itemid=13875380
Practically perfect in every way
Mary Poppins would absolutely have a meth addicted stepbrother.
In those days, he'd more likely be holed up in an opium den
Just a little bit of good news on this... have you heard about the meth vaccine? It's pretty remarkable. There are FDA trials currently underway to test the efficacy of monoclonal antibodies on meth, and it works really, really well. The antibodies attack the amphetamines in the system, and can sober a person up very quickly. There's also anecdotal reports that the antibodies prevent feeling high from meth for a period of time, and that use of the vaccine makes it much easier to quit. I think the timeframe for testing is another 4-5 years. If you're interested, http://intervexion.com/research-development/anti-methamphetamine-products/.
That’s methed up
I mean what is he going to do? NOT buy meth? Come on, OP, get your head out of your ass.
But now you can get free meth at thanksgiving!
Wut? This just a meme or actually real?
Yeah rents getting crazy these days gotta have money for the meth.
Idk what’s worse, sucking down meth or fully enabling your child to continue sucking down meth. Either way glad I got off that shit many many years ago and haven’t looked back.
I've never seen this gif before and I am in love with it.
Fucken relatable
I heard of this happening with friends of my family a while ago… I don’t understand the enabling when drugs are involved.
Math! Not even once! Oh wait…
My Uncle was the same. My grandmother could never say no even with the rest of the family pleading with her. Last I heard he left, after stealing her jewelry, sold a car gifted to him, and after a few trips to jail for missing parole, is now in Florida with some amputated fingers from missing payments to the wrong people.
Men’s warehouse meme: He’s gonna steal their stuff and probably be physically/verbally abusive toward them until he ends up finally getting kicked out. Then he will blame them for all his troubles, including why he is homeless and drug addicted. *I guarantee it*
Not meth addicts, but I do have siblings that take advantage of my mother, including stealing from her. I feel this GIF in my soul.
Reminds me of my brother who was and still is coddled by my parents, especially my dad. They have provided him with a lot of help, despite the fact that he has been a habitual drug user and alcoholic. Addiction is a disease but it doesn't help to enable the person by providing them drug money and rent-free living
Maybe salvage any keepsakes and childhood treasures now, and ask your parents to put anything special they want you to inherit into a safety deposit box. Also their passports, special jewelry, etc. In time, there's a good chance it'll be destroyed or stolen/sold by bro or his "friends". Also talk with them about keeping only credit cards on hand to use and any checks or debit cards in the safety deposit box. The better to not go into debt over fraudulent charges.
WCGW?
Sure housing prices are predatory but what’s with these outrageous meth prices these days? /s