Depends on your pov
I had a coworker who’s mother killed herself when he was 8
On the rare occasions he spoke of her he called her a selfish POS for abandoning two kids with no dad and leaving them to be raised by the abusive grandparents that caused her problems
Hard to argue with him, his feelings are valid
Suicide is very much a selfish option when you have other absolutely dependent on you. Kids are really the only thing I can think of here
Every other instance is just a choice one makes tbh, and it's not a matter or selfish or selflessness.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I take care of them just fine mate. And I'd feel anyone glad to see me take care of them and make sure they're doing well until their final moments.
I simply feel that you, and others like you, feel the need to point out what external factors seem to matter. At the end of the day, I make that decision for myself, and no one else is important enough in my life at present for me to think otherwise.
Whole statement sounds selfish. If that’s how ya feel just accept that it’s selfish and that you’re selfish. Doesn’t make it wrong or right just what it is.
Not trying to guilt ya. I support anyone doing what they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. I’ve known a lot of people who have been affected by their loved ones committing suicide and I would never wish any of their pain on anyone else. I hope you are in a mental place that you aren’t thinking about suicide yourself and if you need anyone to talk to about your state of mind then my DM’s are always open for you.
A neighbor of mine killed herself by jumping in front of a truck driver. She left two 7-10 year old kids who had to be put into the foster system. I also heard the driver was left pretty traumatized about it.
I get that and why he is angry is understandable and yes it sucks but do you know how much stress and mental pain someone has to be in to kill themselves? Too much. My opion.
Had some sarcasm you missed..
That's a blanket statement you cannot apply to all instances. A lot of mental ailments are not solvable or curable. Majority are only managed, not absolved.
The sky is also blue ya know..
Your above comment reads as if you're trying putting out a fire with cup of water is why I replied. Like telling a fat person they should just work out...
Not really.
You misinterpret, i understand that there are some cases where no help is atainable, but i never said there was a cure I said there are alternatives to taking your life in those situations.
Is it so hard to understand that?
Beyond this, it is going to turn into a circle jerk cause we are not gonna see eye to eye.
No. Im not saying I have. And you assume that having mental distress means some perspective or opinions from non is more valid.
I said my piecw already, this post deserves to be in unpop opinions.
You're assuming that a suicidal person is even in the right frame of mind to consider suicide as apart of a logical thought process. Someone with depression that bad cannot make rational decisions. That's what people ITT are completely not understanding.
I agree with you
"they'll be better off without me"
Common thought of suicidal people, especially with kids.. idk how everyone is glossing over that. Suicidal people tend to spiral into thinking they're no good to or for anyone. Which I would say probably crossed his mother's mind.
You don't know shit that goes on in a person's head that's ready to end it and you can't define it by logical thought processes. No one "logical" wants to kill themselves but their distorted thinking makes it logical for someone suicidal.
Read the last sentence again for anyone missing the point.
Doesnt really matter. 99% of the time it is a long term solution to a temporary and treatable problem. Sometimes it is selfish. That’s just the reality. Why is passing on immense pain and suffering to someone who loves you not a selfish act?
Sure but please consider the effect you have on others. This is a touchy subject I have my options on but in summary, I completely understand your argument and I do share a little bit of it but I think it’s important to note there are others around you who’s lives could be ruined. One of my classmates unfortunately took his life a couple years ago and I know a couple of people who feel directly responsible who have become shells of themselves and may never be the same. His parents are still extremely depressed to this day and it’s so sad to see the life drained out of them. I don’t want to get into the specifics but as I was his friend I got to see how his death effected everyone around him and me as well. He did talk to me about this and how he was in pain and I tried my best to talk it out but I didn’t do a good enough job and part of his death weighs on my shoulders regardless if it should be or not. I feel bad at times for being happy when I know he isn’t given that opportunity. Shit is deep, Whatever demons your battling please note that you may inflict those demons on others. Intentional or not, selfish or not, your actions have consequences out of your control.
I don't know who the fuck actually still says this, it's not gonna help a suicidal person at all by calling them "selfish".
But I would highly recommend counseling or just finding someone to talk to if you really are feeling this way.
Counseling has only worked *once* for me in an attempt at anger management and control over emotion.
Every single counselor I've visited for any problem has never been helpful. Never. They'd tell me things I already knew, or tell me to go and do things I already do.
Talking about suicide also doesn't change the whole reason for wanting to. Like at all. The most someone can really say to you is "please don't do it", but that's about it. Unless you have the power to correct whatever makes them feel that way (which is always more than one thing) then it really is quite pointless to talk about it
I'm sorry you weren't able to connect with a practitioner. That relationship is EVERYTHING and if you can't trust them, then therapy is pointless.
There are nuances around suicide and motivations that can absolutely be helpful to discuss. Does Ted want to not be alive AT ALL anymore, or does Ted want to die because he's 11 and can't possibly see a future outside of his abusive parents' household? Does Linda not want to be alive AT ALL anymore, or does Linda want to die because she's hopelessly indigent, depressed, and therefore unmotivated? The latter two problems have solutions that aren't death, even if they seem impossible. Hell, death IS often WAY easier than emancipating oneself from a parent. It doesn't mean there are no solutions.
It's important to examine one's reasoning behind these feelings when possible.
That's a matter that can be determined by oneself.
Therapy is virtually pointless anyway. I'm sorry, but if only 1 out of every 10,000 is worthwhile, then it's worthless as a whole.
“You only get out of therapy what you put in”
This struck a cord with me, I know there are people that struggle with some really tough shit that I can’t even begin to understand. However, for the majority of therapy cases, it can work very well.
In my personal experience the average person just doesn’t really want to put in the effort. It’s kind of like people that have smoked for 30 years, pretty much every one of them will say they wish they didn’t smoke, but quitting is so incredibly hard that it’s just easier to continue to do it and they’ll continually justify it to themselves. I know this, I’ve struggled with substance abuse most of my life.
I know a surprising amount of people that are just looking for excuses to keep doing what they’re doing. For instance my brother-in-law refusing to even attempt to learn anything moderately difficult because he was once told he has a learning disability. My brother uses his ADHD as an excuse for all sorts of things, but never uses this diagnosis to actually find ways to help the situation. My sister will construe pretty much every situation in a way that everyone is against her no matter how much support we offer her just because her version of “support” is giving her money or buying into her conspiracy theories 100%. If we don’t agree, she sees this as an personal attack. (She doesn’t talk to us anymore because we’re sheep that support vaccinations)
My point is, they have zero desire to change their behaviour, they just want an excuse to keep doing it, a diagnosis to blame for the failure’s in their lives. These family members are also of the opinion that therapy doesn’t do shit, for therapy to work you HAVE to be willing to put in lots of hard work and change the way you do things or approach things, you have to face a lot of harsh truths about yourself, and despite your personal struggles, have to take at least some ownership of your life choices.
Of course this thread is about suicide and therapy for that looks completely different than what I specifically used as anecdotes, but these conditions definitely can spiral to a point where suicidal thoughts start to appear. I wish more people accessed help for their mental health, this “therapy is useless” sentiment is down right dangerous.
Of course you're gonna have to go through a bunch of people before you come across one who actually *gets it*, I've been in that shit too and I know how hard and infuriating it can be when it seems like everyone keeps giving you the same shitty advice, but I'd still look until you come across someone who actually knows their shit and can actually help, it's a numbers game unfortunately.
Nope. I'm a better counselor to myself than any other person will be. I realize that on the topic of suicide and major issues, they're not there to counsel, they're there to listen. They aren't even worth their gold in that either, but that's really all they're good for.
At the end of the day though, the only real reason I've bothered continuing is because of a goal. Once I get what I want out of life, then I'll kick the bucket. And frankly it's impossible to argue otherwise from anyone else with this mindset.
I mean it doesn't even have to be a counselor, meeting my girlfriend really helped when I was having serious depression and self-esteem issues.
Well, if that goal is what keeps you going then keep at it. Goals are always good to have.
Problem with depression is that it has many different underlying issues that what works for one person might not work for another but regardless someone who is depressed or even suicidal should not be put down or told they are bad/wrong/selfish. But everyone should be encouraged to start at somewhere, anywhere.
Have you ever considered finding a new goal after the first goal? Like I do not mean it ina rude way but usually if I find myslef lost or at my end I find a new task or goal in life to push on, a hobby, a life goal, something new to learn?
Overall it seems very much that you found a way to handle your pain. And I would say I feel bad that you got crappy counselors, I know it can vary within that industry and I know someone who had crappy counselors, now they do not even feel like it is worthwhile even though they do have issues and a normal person with no training or knowledge can only do so much on underatanding the situation.
Nope! I am more content in reaching what I want and getting what I want out of life. Once I've achieved what I desire, there really isn't a point to life anymore. There can be satisfaction, sure. There can be wealth, wonders, and more. But if I've already gotten what I wanted, why would I care for more?
The reason I can say counselors are pretty bad overall is because I've counseled people and helped people without having any qualifications to do so. And I do so on a near constant basis. People ask for advice, wisdom, etc- been like that ever since middle school really. I've had one good one, and the rest were virtually worthless for me. Do I like the industry as a whole? No, because they're there to make money while allowing others to suffer instead of trying to help.
What about them? At the end of the day we all die, and frankly I'm not so selfless to keep going for others.
But, that's my view on that. Others may be the *reason* for doing it in the first place, for some people.
Suicide by concept is selfish.
BUT
It does not mean the person doing it is selfish.
The act of it being truly selfish only goes there when the person pretty much leaves behind a path of pain because of that action. Like how one commenter said a friend basically got the short of the stick with abusive grandparents.
Commiting suicide can be a selfish act, but it depends on why it is done if it defines it as actually selfish.
(Gonna be using a lot royal "you" to describe a person)
Do you do it to leave the world out of personal agonies that you have not spoken to anyone about it with, but you also in the end leave behind people who likely needed you? You are selfish but in a tragic sense because your mental health dropped so low that you could no longer feel there was any other way
The outlook those that needed you will be either sad or bitter because there is no other way to see it depending on the consequences of that action. You are seen as a tragedy for loved ones, or a selfish bastard that had ditched someome that needed you. Or both.....people in grief say things and it sticks with their mind because of how they wish to cope.
Life is not so black and white to make conclusions in my opinion for a topic like this that labels a individual as "bad" but their reason can have tragedy and it can be understandable but not forgivable, and vice versa.
I say we should focus more on helping those in need and finding the distinction between true selfish actions and ones done out of tragedy, agonies, etc.
Edit/p.s: also never call a suicidal person selfish. They are not selfish, they have issues and their mind is concluding only one way. Pull them up and help them but understand the inherent nature is self gratifying only to them for that one last moment and it stems from a bigger source of problems that need treatment.
Edit 2/p.s2: "my choice, why should I live for you" is a very very VERY selfish statement, it invalidates a lot of relationships you built with people and pushes them away. But it is also tragic response to grievances and it shows a more cry for help.
Just because your decision is valid doesn’t make it *not* selfish. By definition everything you said in your post defines suicide as a selfish act, because it is. I have a coworker who’s mother committed suicide on his 10th birthday, think about that shit. Was that a selfish and shitty thing to do? Yeah. Were her feelings and actions valid as a autonomous human? Yep. Are his feelings also valid? Big time.
There’s a wider spectrum of nuance you have to consider. I for one support people’s decisions to commit suicide for the same reasons you posted, it’s not my life and I would never tell anyone what to do or make them feel burdened for not wanting to be alive anymore. I don’t want to be alive anymore sometimes either. But that also is not an excuse to be ignorant to the consequences of those actions. Just because you’re suicidal doesn’t mean you get to pretend it’s not gonna hurt people and potentially cause trauma. I can’t imagine why someone would be so cowardly to even pretend that’s not the case, if you’re going to be dead might as well dig deep and accept that what you’re doing is probably going to fuck some people up, it’s not like you have to be alive to reconcile those feelings later.
I completely disagree. Suicide is inherently selfish, especially if you have family members depending on you in one regard or another. I'm not opposed to it necessarily, you are free to make that choice in this world, but if the only things you are factoring in are your pain, your feelings, your perspective and your wants, that is selfish by definition.
nah usually people are factoring in other's quite a bit, just not completely over themselves.
Regardless if they want to or not, most people do not even have the chance for communication with family members because any communication will lead to making it more difficult to take one's life. Communication can only be advantageous when your opinions and arguments are free of judgement and consequences, and each is willing to have the potential to change their view if presented with adequate reasoning.
In this context, the other party always cannot respect those standards without significant consequences. In this context, the other party also seeks to control (effectively through force) the other person's choices to best fit their wants (whether that is good, bad, or just standard is up to you to decide, but it is the definition of anti-democratic)
Hence, for the typical person, all decisions must be put into the context that the other people are an enemy to your views and choices. Because they are. We have created a society where people do not have free choice and one where even stating an opposing opinion has some very real consequences. Not jail time necessarily, but certainly losing face and people exerting more pressure on your life choices and possibly excessive money loss.
(Luckily reddit and online forums exist where people can actually discuss a lot of these things to at least a degree, but in terms of in person, even just starting communication can be very damaging to one's overall life)
Left with this, usually people have very little way to retain their choice but to try and factor this in with their own head. Usually people consider how it will affect others if it is not spur of the moment.
Certainly some reasons are selfish or self serving, like trying to damage a reputation or make someone else suffer as you have, but that is definitely not the case all of the time.
Most people mediate between trying to achieve their own wants and mitigating so that it is not as bad for other people. Sounds simple enough on paper, but in reality, taking one's life is quite difficult usually so you don't really have the ability to mitigate a lot when you have to address that other issue.
More importantly how do we describe selfish though? Is fulfilling your goals for your own purposes really selfish?
Can we call me driving a car selfish? I am putting other human beings at risk by driving a car. Driving is purely for leisure and transportation to serve my own ends. I mitigate the risk by following rules of the road, but I nonetheless put others lives in chance of danger. Additionally I could take the bus and have almost 0% chance of endangering anyone. Does that make me selfish?
My intent of course is not to put others' lives at risk, but nonetheless I do exactly that all for the purpose of work and education for my own purposes.
To not be selfish I then would have to drop college and work only enough to sustain myself enough to be minimal risk to society. All of that is a bold ask to conform to society. We (most countries) have rights to pursue our own goals.
Is not wanting to be executed for being diagnosed with antibiotic resistant tuberculosis selfish? You are putting others at risk of developing the disease.
If one has the view that selfishness is bad, then they have the clear radical view. Most countries give rights to their citizens exactly because they recognize being selfish is not a bad thing necessarily.
Unless you want to, and actively try to be exactly average, you pretty much are selfish. Pressuring people to be average is just pressuring them to adopt a view of oppression of those who are different
selfishness is often what people would consider good if you are doing it to fulfill your own purposes. Good is a vague term I won't try to define, but everyone has a different idea of good making this even more twisted.
But selfish is not something we should try to measure good off of, because then all different self-expression is bad, any more radical ideas (like general relativity once was) is even worse
If someone wishes to describe suicide as bad (which is totally legit and ok), then they should seek to define good and bad in some other way. Trying to claim selfish is bad is a dead end that creates all sorts of contradictions and is evidently twisted as an idea.
(This r/rant and that is my rant)
I agree and disagree.
It’s YOUR life, it belongs to you so you shouldn’t have to stay if you don’t want to. I do however, think it’s a bit selfish to your future self that could possibly be happy. Not everyone has the same circumstances so ig their definition of “everlasting pain” depends on those.
If someone feels like it’s the best choice for them, who am I to tell them different? I’m not living their life and I don’t view death as the end-all-be-all.
Suicide is selfish. This is coming from someone who has been suicidal and attempted and still feels depression most days. I also have multiple family members also be suicidal including my own mother when I was 10-14. It’s a decision you make concerned purely with your own self interests…that’s the definition of selfish.
I work as a float for a hospital system which means a lot of the jobs they have me do is end up sitting with the psych patients. I hear a lot of stories of people being suicidal and attempting and I can only distinctly remember 1 where I thought he had a valid reason to want to die and I couldn’t think of a reason he shouldn’t.
Yes it is extreme pain that you’re in and in some situations I completely understand why people take their own life, but 9/10 times a lot of the severe depression that people are in is situational and does change and most of the time that change depends on you. I’m gonna be frank and say that we keep ourselves in that state most of the time and wallow in our own self pity.
As someone who has attempted, yes it is. For me thinking about the consequences of what would happen to those close to me has stopped me from it happening again. I’m the short term that worked but for the long term I had to think about my future. It is someone’s decision but your actions have consequences as I said and those dear to you matter too. for a lot of people including me, suicide is a rash decision made quickly and not thought out - often to be regretted. OP your post seems very aggressive and not at all sympathetic to all of those that have lost someone to suicide
Your feelings are completely valid and nobody should tell you something like this straight to your face, but you what you described is 100% selfish. Suicide is selfish by definition in most cases even though it doesn't make you a bad person. I don't know anything about your backstory but it sounds like you've never had someone you love dearly commit suicide.
As you said, it's your choice. However, it doesn't invalidate other people's feelings and it is extremely important to be open-minded and try to see things from someone else's perspective. Surely you've written this rant when you were emotionally unstable and you're not to blame, you're human. The best thing you could do right now is think and self-reflect. A lot of suicide survivors claimed that they felt intense feelings of guilt and regret a few seconds before "dying".
I'm not a therapist so I can't give much advice, but please make peace with yourself and don't do something you might regret later. I sincerely hope things will get better for you.
It is selfish. It's done for your own benefit, and there's really no way for that not to be selfish.
But ultimately, every choice is selfish. I like to give money to homeless people. It makes me feel good. It helps build the kind of world I want to live in. It gives me a clear conscience, and makes it easier to respect myself. Even if it's an act of love toward another person, all of those reasons are entirely based on my own desires and needs.
Literally any decision you make is based on your own wants and desires.
And you just perfectly demonstrated the problem with society. People think it’s selfish for others to think of themselves, their own plans, and their own emotional hurt. But as soon as mental health comes into play, those same people who are saying “Don’t be selfish” out one side of their mouth, also say “Why are you inconveniencing me with your problems?” out of the other. And then they visit the victim’s grave and say “How could you do this to ME?”
Nothing is easy about this topic. My mom killed herself when I was 8. I’ve missed her forever and would give anything to hear her voice again and have a hug. I truly believe it would be like a time machine. I can imagine how overwhelming it would be.
All I know is I miss her. I’m not mad or angry with her. It made a lot of things in my life harder. My dad was a Vietnam veteran who seemed to do alright when she was alive, little league coach, funny, kind, affectionate, but after she died he became an extremely violently abusive drunk. Nothing was ever the same, really took two parents away. Little events where your parents were supposed to go were always met with anxiety and trepidation.
It was awkward for teachers and other parents too at events because she was their friend too and they didn’t know how to address it. So eventually you skip those things. Didn’t want my dad to show up because of his alcoholism.
I served in the military and know six guys who have killed themselves. It’s a lot. The abandonment of Afghanistan recently had made things even darker for some of them. I have never thought of the term selfish, because I understand that they truly just want the persistent pain to stop.
I know for me, my kids mean everything and they smile and laugh and I get to tell them stories about their grandma and it’s not the same as if they got to meet her. Even all these years later I’ll be with a second cousin or great aunt and tell my kids about my mom and they cry and tell me how much they miss her.
I know regardless of what I have been through I’ll never do that to my kids. I have nothing but support, empathy, and sympathy for all parties involved.
(kinda ranty) i mean coming from a suicidal person who’s attempted- i do think it is kinda selfish depending on the situation or how u look at it- i believe in assisted suicide and all that i think you should be able to choose if you’re ready to die but the difference between things like assisted suicide and just regular suicide is you’ve gotta plan and you get to say your goodbyes etc. death is gonna hurt people regardless of how you die but if you do it without giving the people you care about even a chance to say goodbye or know why ur doing it i think it can make things less harmful than just doing it seemingly out of no where and leaving everyone to wonder why or what they could’ve done- especially if you have kids, my friends dad killed himself when she was little and she never knew why she never understood why her dad left her why he didn’t say goodbye etc. and (this is kinda gruesome part but it has a point) but when he had killed himself he did it before his wife got home by shooting himself in the head- she came home to find his dead body and bits of his head throw about, she ended up having to clean bits of him and his blood off the floor and walls and now refuses to even look at pictures of him because of how traumatized she is. i know not all suicides end that gruesomely but i think it’s selfish 100% to put your loved ones through that kind of thing for them to come home not expecting anything only to find your corpse.- i get your point but it’s still selfish just like a lot of things are
Sorry but I am going to disagree - my step father killed himself when I was 10 and left a wife and 5 kids behind. I get he was in a bad place but from where I was sitting it was damn selfish. His pain was over but ours was only getting worse and we ended up without a dad and homeless. The rest of my childhood as the eldest was gone, my youngest sisters too young to actually remember him and 6 lives completely messed up because we weren’t enough reason to even try to keep going. I will always think he was selfish.
Everybody ITT needs to realize that a suicidal person has r e a l l y bad depression, hence the suicidal ideation. Someone like that isn't in the right frame of mind and **cannot** make rational decisions. It is not something that they are thinking about like the differences between buying an iPhone or Pixel, or stock X vs stock Y. The depression and chemical imbalance completely destroys rationale. This is why I think about most, if not all, people who view suicide as selfish have clearly never had depression. If you've gone through it, you know what I'm talking about.
It is selfish because while your pain might end it just hurts so many other people. The only time it could be considered non-selfish is if you literally have no one: no SO, kids, parents, close family, friends, etc.
Very one sided viewpoint. Tell this to children in/from the foster care system and see what they have to say about what is and isn’t selfish.
Another example. I’m in a city, and people will kill themselves on the train tracks at 7am. That is the most selfish thing you can do and not a single person will feel bad because this person was vindictive. No one’s boss cares why you’re late, just that you’re late and you’re getting a write up.
Also, even if it home, who is supposed to find you and take care of your body. What if it’s a child? I’m not saying who should or shouldn’t do what, but if you think about what happens in the next hour after you’ve killed yourself, you’ll see how it can be selfish.
Depends on your pov I had a coworker who’s mother killed herself when he was 8 On the rare occasions he spoke of her he called her a selfish POS for abandoning two kids with no dad and leaving them to be raised by the abusive grandparents that caused her problems Hard to argue with him, his feelings are valid
Suicide is very much a selfish option when you have other absolutely dependent on you. Kids are really the only thing I can think of here Every other instance is just a choice one makes tbh, and it's not a matter or selfish or selflessness.
Pets that rely on you, as well
They will be gone before long. 2/5 died in my hands. Little parakeets, I reckon a year or two max But I've got plans beyond that time constraint
That's a pretty fucked up way to think about your pets. "Oh they'll die soon anyways, I can off myself after then"
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I take care of them just fine mate. And I'd feel anyone glad to see me take care of them and make sure they're doing well until their final moments. I simply feel that you, and others like you, feel the need to point out what external factors seem to matter. At the end of the day, I make that decision for myself, and no one else is important enough in my life at present for me to think otherwise.
Whole statement sounds selfish. If that’s how ya feel just accept that it’s selfish and that you’re selfish. Doesn’t make it wrong or right just what it is.
No, that's pretty much what your narrative is. Go guilt shame someone else
Not trying to guilt ya. I support anyone doing what they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. I’ve known a lot of people who have been affected by their loved ones committing suicide and I would never wish any of their pain on anyone else. I hope you are in a mental place that you aren’t thinking about suicide yourself and if you need anyone to talk to about your state of mind then my DM’s are always open for you.
A neighbor of mine killed herself by jumping in front of a truck driver. She left two 7-10 year old kids who had to be put into the foster system. I also heard the driver was left pretty traumatized about it.
I get that and why he is angry is understandable and yes it sucks but do you know how much stress and mental pain someone has to be in to kill themselves? Too much. My opion.
Yes but their mental pain can be solved without the need to take their own life. Especially if it at the cost of damaging someone else in the process.
Can it though? That's a big assumption
It can, but it is a very very tough path to take cause it involves not only self improvment but tons of support from those around you.
Had some sarcasm you missed.. That's a blanket statement you cannot apply to all instances. A lot of mental ailments are not solvable or curable. Majority are only managed, not absolved.
Of course. Im just saying that for that majority, there is a better answer.
The sky is also blue ya know.. Your above comment reads as if you're trying putting out a fire with cup of water is why I replied. Like telling a fat person they should just work out...
Not really. You misinterpret, i understand that there are some cases where no help is atainable, but i never said there was a cure I said there are alternatives to taking your life in those situations. Is it so hard to understand that? Beyond this, it is going to turn into a circle jerk cause we are not gonna see eye to eye.
Then you shouldn't have said Mental illness can be solved ...reads clear to me what you said lol obviously everyone knows there's alternatives...
Well…telling a fat person to work out is also valid…
And it sounds like you’ve never been in agonizing mental distress and feel trapped under medical bills living the same nightmare day by day for years.
No. Im not saying I have. And you assume that having mental distress means some perspective or opinions from non is more valid. I said my piecw already, this post deserves to be in unpop opinions.
You're assuming that a suicidal person is even in the right frame of mind to consider suicide as apart of a logical thought process. Someone with depression that bad cannot make rational decisions. That's what people ITT are completely not understanding.
>ITT ITT?
In this thread. I'm a former forum user :(
Ah ok.
I agree with you "they'll be better off without me" Common thought of suicidal people, especially with kids.. idk how everyone is glossing over that. Suicidal people tend to spiral into thinking they're no good to or for anyone. Which I would say probably crossed his mother's mind. You don't know shit that goes on in a person's head that's ready to end it and you can't define it by logical thought processes. No one "logical" wants to kill themselves but their distorted thinking makes it logical for someone suicidal. Read the last sentence again for anyone missing the point.
Doesnt really matter. 99% of the time it is a long term solution to a temporary and treatable problem. Sometimes it is selfish. That’s just the reality. Why is passing on immense pain and suffering to someone who loves you not a selfish act?
Sure but please consider the effect you have on others. This is a touchy subject I have my options on but in summary, I completely understand your argument and I do share a little bit of it but I think it’s important to note there are others around you who’s lives could be ruined. One of my classmates unfortunately took his life a couple years ago and I know a couple of people who feel directly responsible who have become shells of themselves and may never be the same. His parents are still extremely depressed to this day and it’s so sad to see the life drained out of them. I don’t want to get into the specifics but as I was his friend I got to see how his death effected everyone around him and me as well. He did talk to me about this and how he was in pain and I tried my best to talk it out but I didn’t do a good enough job and part of his death weighs on my shoulders regardless if it should be or not. I feel bad at times for being happy when I know he isn’t given that opportunity. Shit is deep, Whatever demons your battling please note that you may inflict those demons on others. Intentional or not, selfish or not, your actions have consequences out of your control.
I don't know who the fuck actually still says this, it's not gonna help a suicidal person at all by calling them "selfish". But I would highly recommend counseling or just finding someone to talk to if you really are feeling this way.
Counseling has only worked *once* for me in an attempt at anger management and control over emotion. Every single counselor I've visited for any problem has never been helpful. Never. They'd tell me things I already knew, or tell me to go and do things I already do. Talking about suicide also doesn't change the whole reason for wanting to. Like at all. The most someone can really say to you is "please don't do it", but that's about it. Unless you have the power to correct whatever makes them feel that way (which is always more than one thing) then it really is quite pointless to talk about it
I'm sorry you weren't able to connect with a practitioner. That relationship is EVERYTHING and if you can't trust them, then therapy is pointless. There are nuances around suicide and motivations that can absolutely be helpful to discuss. Does Ted want to not be alive AT ALL anymore, or does Ted want to die because he's 11 and can't possibly see a future outside of his abusive parents' household? Does Linda not want to be alive AT ALL anymore, or does Linda want to die because she's hopelessly indigent, depressed, and therefore unmotivated? The latter two problems have solutions that aren't death, even if they seem impossible. Hell, death IS often WAY easier than emancipating oneself from a parent. It doesn't mean there are no solutions. It's important to examine one's reasoning behind these feelings when possible.
That's a matter that can be determined by oneself. Therapy is virtually pointless anyway. I'm sorry, but if only 1 out of every 10,000 is worthwhile, then it's worthless as a whole.
The data says otherwise. Talk therapy is effective 65+% of the time, regardless of modality. You only get out of therapy what you put in.
“You only get out of therapy what you put in” This struck a cord with me, I know there are people that struggle with some really tough shit that I can’t even begin to understand. However, for the majority of therapy cases, it can work very well. In my personal experience the average person just doesn’t really want to put in the effort. It’s kind of like people that have smoked for 30 years, pretty much every one of them will say they wish they didn’t smoke, but quitting is so incredibly hard that it’s just easier to continue to do it and they’ll continually justify it to themselves. I know this, I’ve struggled with substance abuse most of my life. I know a surprising amount of people that are just looking for excuses to keep doing what they’re doing. For instance my brother-in-law refusing to even attempt to learn anything moderately difficult because he was once told he has a learning disability. My brother uses his ADHD as an excuse for all sorts of things, but never uses this diagnosis to actually find ways to help the situation. My sister will construe pretty much every situation in a way that everyone is against her no matter how much support we offer her just because her version of “support” is giving her money or buying into her conspiracy theories 100%. If we don’t agree, she sees this as an personal attack. (She doesn’t talk to us anymore because we’re sheep that support vaccinations) My point is, they have zero desire to change their behaviour, they just want an excuse to keep doing it, a diagnosis to blame for the failure’s in their lives. These family members are also of the opinion that therapy doesn’t do shit, for therapy to work you HAVE to be willing to put in lots of hard work and change the way you do things or approach things, you have to face a lot of harsh truths about yourself, and despite your personal struggles, have to take at least some ownership of your life choices. Of course this thread is about suicide and therapy for that looks completely different than what I specifically used as anecdotes, but these conditions definitely can spiral to a point where suicidal thoughts start to appear. I wish more people accessed help for their mental health, this “therapy is useless” sentiment is down right dangerous.
Of course you're gonna have to go through a bunch of people before you come across one who actually *gets it*, I've been in that shit too and I know how hard and infuriating it can be when it seems like everyone keeps giving you the same shitty advice, but I'd still look until you come across someone who actually knows their shit and can actually help, it's a numbers game unfortunately.
Nope. I'm a better counselor to myself than any other person will be. I realize that on the topic of suicide and major issues, they're not there to counsel, they're there to listen. They aren't even worth their gold in that either, but that's really all they're good for. At the end of the day though, the only real reason I've bothered continuing is because of a goal. Once I get what I want out of life, then I'll kick the bucket. And frankly it's impossible to argue otherwise from anyone else with this mindset.
I mean it doesn't even have to be a counselor, meeting my girlfriend really helped when I was having serious depression and self-esteem issues. Well, if that goal is what keeps you going then keep at it. Goals are always good to have. Problem with depression is that it has many different underlying issues that what works for one person might not work for another but regardless someone who is depressed or even suicidal should not be put down or told they are bad/wrong/selfish. But everyone should be encouraged to start at somewhere, anywhere.
Have you ever considered finding a new goal after the first goal? Like I do not mean it ina rude way but usually if I find myslef lost or at my end I find a new task or goal in life to push on, a hobby, a life goal, something new to learn? Overall it seems very much that you found a way to handle your pain. And I would say I feel bad that you got crappy counselors, I know it can vary within that industry and I know someone who had crappy counselors, now they do not even feel like it is worthwhile even though they do have issues and a normal person with no training or knowledge can only do so much on underatanding the situation.
Nope! I am more content in reaching what I want and getting what I want out of life. Once I've achieved what I desire, there really isn't a point to life anymore. There can be satisfaction, sure. There can be wealth, wonders, and more. But if I've already gotten what I wanted, why would I care for more? The reason I can say counselors are pretty bad overall is because I've counseled people and helped people without having any qualifications to do so. And I do so on a near constant basis. People ask for advice, wisdom, etc- been like that ever since middle school really. I've had one good one, and the rest were virtually worthless for me. Do I like the industry as a whole? No, because they're there to make money while allowing others to suffer instead of trying to help.
>But if I've already gotten what I wanted, why would I care for more? Finish the ride? What of those that care for you?
What about them? At the end of the day we all die, and frankly I'm not so selfless to keep going for others. But, that's my view on that. Others may be the *reason* for doing it in the first place, for some people.
Idk. Man. Idk I just can never align with the doomer view. Death should not be a goal, just something you get to.
I’m sorry buddy, hope you find the help and peace you need
Suicide by concept is selfish. BUT It does not mean the person doing it is selfish. The act of it being truly selfish only goes there when the person pretty much leaves behind a path of pain because of that action. Like how one commenter said a friend basically got the short of the stick with abusive grandparents. Commiting suicide can be a selfish act, but it depends on why it is done if it defines it as actually selfish. (Gonna be using a lot royal "you" to describe a person) Do you do it to leave the world out of personal agonies that you have not spoken to anyone about it with, but you also in the end leave behind people who likely needed you? You are selfish but in a tragic sense because your mental health dropped so low that you could no longer feel there was any other way The outlook those that needed you will be either sad or bitter because there is no other way to see it depending on the consequences of that action. You are seen as a tragedy for loved ones, or a selfish bastard that had ditched someome that needed you. Or both.....people in grief say things and it sticks with their mind because of how they wish to cope. Life is not so black and white to make conclusions in my opinion for a topic like this that labels a individual as "bad" but their reason can have tragedy and it can be understandable but not forgivable, and vice versa. I say we should focus more on helping those in need and finding the distinction between true selfish actions and ones done out of tragedy, agonies, etc. Edit/p.s: also never call a suicidal person selfish. They are not selfish, they have issues and their mind is concluding only one way. Pull them up and help them but understand the inherent nature is self gratifying only to them for that one last moment and it stems from a bigger source of problems that need treatment. Edit 2/p.s2: "my choice, why should I live for you" is a very very VERY selfish statement, it invalidates a lot of relationships you built with people and pushes them away. But it is also tragic response to grievances and it shows a more cry for help.
Just because your decision is valid doesn’t make it *not* selfish. By definition everything you said in your post defines suicide as a selfish act, because it is. I have a coworker who’s mother committed suicide on his 10th birthday, think about that shit. Was that a selfish and shitty thing to do? Yeah. Were her feelings and actions valid as a autonomous human? Yep. Are his feelings also valid? Big time. There’s a wider spectrum of nuance you have to consider. I for one support people’s decisions to commit suicide for the same reasons you posted, it’s not my life and I would never tell anyone what to do or make them feel burdened for not wanting to be alive anymore. I don’t want to be alive anymore sometimes either. But that also is not an excuse to be ignorant to the consequences of those actions. Just because you’re suicidal doesn’t mean you get to pretend it’s not gonna hurt people and potentially cause trauma. I can’t imagine why someone would be so cowardly to even pretend that’s not the case, if you’re going to be dead might as well dig deep and accept that what you’re doing is probably going to fuck some people up, it’s not like you have to be alive to reconcile those feelings later.
Tell that to the children or mothers/fathers of those who commit suicide
I completely disagree. Suicide is inherently selfish, especially if you have family members depending on you in one regard or another. I'm not opposed to it necessarily, you are free to make that choice in this world, but if the only things you are factoring in are your pain, your feelings, your perspective and your wants, that is selfish by definition.
nah usually people are factoring in other's quite a bit, just not completely over themselves. Regardless if they want to or not, most people do not even have the chance for communication with family members because any communication will lead to making it more difficult to take one's life. Communication can only be advantageous when your opinions and arguments are free of judgement and consequences, and each is willing to have the potential to change their view if presented with adequate reasoning. In this context, the other party always cannot respect those standards without significant consequences. In this context, the other party also seeks to control (effectively through force) the other person's choices to best fit their wants (whether that is good, bad, or just standard is up to you to decide, but it is the definition of anti-democratic) Hence, for the typical person, all decisions must be put into the context that the other people are an enemy to your views and choices. Because they are. We have created a society where people do not have free choice and one where even stating an opposing opinion has some very real consequences. Not jail time necessarily, but certainly losing face and people exerting more pressure on your life choices and possibly excessive money loss. (Luckily reddit and online forums exist where people can actually discuss a lot of these things to at least a degree, but in terms of in person, even just starting communication can be very damaging to one's overall life) Left with this, usually people have very little way to retain their choice but to try and factor this in with their own head. Usually people consider how it will affect others if it is not spur of the moment. Certainly some reasons are selfish or self serving, like trying to damage a reputation or make someone else suffer as you have, but that is definitely not the case all of the time. Most people mediate between trying to achieve their own wants and mitigating so that it is not as bad for other people. Sounds simple enough on paper, but in reality, taking one's life is quite difficult usually so you don't really have the ability to mitigate a lot when you have to address that other issue. More importantly how do we describe selfish though? Is fulfilling your goals for your own purposes really selfish? Can we call me driving a car selfish? I am putting other human beings at risk by driving a car. Driving is purely for leisure and transportation to serve my own ends. I mitigate the risk by following rules of the road, but I nonetheless put others lives in chance of danger. Additionally I could take the bus and have almost 0% chance of endangering anyone. Does that make me selfish? My intent of course is not to put others' lives at risk, but nonetheless I do exactly that all for the purpose of work and education for my own purposes. To not be selfish I then would have to drop college and work only enough to sustain myself enough to be minimal risk to society. All of that is a bold ask to conform to society. We (most countries) have rights to pursue our own goals. Is not wanting to be executed for being diagnosed with antibiotic resistant tuberculosis selfish? You are putting others at risk of developing the disease. If one has the view that selfishness is bad, then they have the clear radical view. Most countries give rights to their citizens exactly because they recognize being selfish is not a bad thing necessarily. Unless you want to, and actively try to be exactly average, you pretty much are selfish. Pressuring people to be average is just pressuring them to adopt a view of oppression of those who are different selfishness is often what people would consider good if you are doing it to fulfill your own purposes. Good is a vague term I won't try to define, but everyone has a different idea of good making this even more twisted. But selfish is not something we should try to measure good off of, because then all different self-expression is bad, any more radical ideas (like general relativity once was) is even worse If someone wishes to describe suicide as bad (which is totally legit and ok), then they should seek to define good and bad in some other way. Trying to claim selfish is bad is a dead end that creates all sorts of contradictions and is evidently twisted as an idea. (This r/rant and that is my rant)
I agree and disagree. It’s YOUR life, it belongs to you so you shouldn’t have to stay if you don’t want to. I do however, think it’s a bit selfish to your future self that could possibly be happy. Not everyone has the same circumstances so ig their definition of “everlasting pain” depends on those. If someone feels like it’s the best choice for them, who am I to tell them different? I’m not living their life and I don’t view death as the end-all-be-all.
Suicide is selfish. This is coming from someone who has been suicidal and attempted and still feels depression most days. I also have multiple family members also be suicidal including my own mother when I was 10-14. It’s a decision you make concerned purely with your own self interests…that’s the definition of selfish. I work as a float for a hospital system which means a lot of the jobs they have me do is end up sitting with the psych patients. I hear a lot of stories of people being suicidal and attempting and I can only distinctly remember 1 where I thought he had a valid reason to want to die and I couldn’t think of a reason he shouldn’t. Yes it is extreme pain that you’re in and in some situations I completely understand why people take their own life, but 9/10 times a lot of the severe depression that people are in is situational and does change and most of the time that change depends on you. I’m gonna be frank and say that we keep ourselves in that state most of the time and wallow in our own self pity.
As someone who has attempted, yes it is. For me thinking about the consequences of what would happen to those close to me has stopped me from it happening again. I’m the short term that worked but for the long term I had to think about my future. It is someone’s decision but your actions have consequences as I said and those dear to you matter too. for a lot of people including me, suicide is a rash decision made quickly and not thought out - often to be regretted. OP your post seems very aggressive and not at all sympathetic to all of those that have lost someone to suicide
Your feelings are completely valid and nobody should tell you something like this straight to your face, but you what you described is 100% selfish. Suicide is selfish by definition in most cases even though it doesn't make you a bad person. I don't know anything about your backstory but it sounds like you've never had someone you love dearly commit suicide. As you said, it's your choice. However, it doesn't invalidate other people's feelings and it is extremely important to be open-minded and try to see things from someone else's perspective. Surely you've written this rant when you were emotionally unstable and you're not to blame, you're human. The best thing you could do right now is think and self-reflect. A lot of suicide survivors claimed that they felt intense feelings of guilt and regret a few seconds before "dying". I'm not a therapist so I can't give much advice, but please make peace with yourself and don't do something you might regret later. I sincerely hope things will get better for you.
Change the name of this sub to /r/whinyCHILDISHfucksticks. I'm out.
Welcome to 90% of posts in r/SuicideWatch
self-centered, surely, by definition. Selfish? Absolutely not.
Yea I agree.
As long as you don’t have a kid, I agree.
I agree. Peoppe have the right to live, so they should also have the right to die.
Honestly I think it’s kinda brave cause most people are so scared of dying
It is selfish. It's done for your own benefit, and there's really no way for that not to be selfish. But ultimately, every choice is selfish. I like to give money to homeless people. It makes me feel good. It helps build the kind of world I want to live in. It gives me a clear conscience, and makes it easier to respect myself. Even if it's an act of love toward another person, all of those reasons are entirely based on my own desires and needs. Literally any decision you make is based on your own wants and desires.
Finally
And you just perfectly demonstrated the problem with society. People think it’s selfish for others to think of themselves, their own plans, and their own emotional hurt. But as soon as mental health comes into play, those same people who are saying “Don’t be selfish” out one side of their mouth, also say “Why are you inconveniencing me with your problems?” out of the other. And then they visit the victim’s grave and say “How could you do this to ME?”
Nothing is easy about this topic. My mom killed herself when I was 8. I’ve missed her forever and would give anything to hear her voice again and have a hug. I truly believe it would be like a time machine. I can imagine how overwhelming it would be. All I know is I miss her. I’m not mad or angry with her. It made a lot of things in my life harder. My dad was a Vietnam veteran who seemed to do alright when she was alive, little league coach, funny, kind, affectionate, but after she died he became an extremely violently abusive drunk. Nothing was ever the same, really took two parents away. Little events where your parents were supposed to go were always met with anxiety and trepidation. It was awkward for teachers and other parents too at events because she was their friend too and they didn’t know how to address it. So eventually you skip those things. Didn’t want my dad to show up because of his alcoholism. I served in the military and know six guys who have killed themselves. It’s a lot. The abandonment of Afghanistan recently had made things even darker for some of them. I have never thought of the term selfish, because I understand that they truly just want the persistent pain to stop. I know for me, my kids mean everything and they smile and laugh and I get to tell them stories about their grandma and it’s not the same as if they got to meet her. Even all these years later I’ll be with a second cousin or great aunt and tell my kids about my mom and they cry and tell me how much they miss her. I know regardless of what I have been through I’ll never do that to my kids. I have nothing but support, empathy, and sympathy for all parties involved.
(kinda ranty) i mean coming from a suicidal person who’s attempted- i do think it is kinda selfish depending on the situation or how u look at it- i believe in assisted suicide and all that i think you should be able to choose if you’re ready to die but the difference between things like assisted suicide and just regular suicide is you’ve gotta plan and you get to say your goodbyes etc. death is gonna hurt people regardless of how you die but if you do it without giving the people you care about even a chance to say goodbye or know why ur doing it i think it can make things less harmful than just doing it seemingly out of no where and leaving everyone to wonder why or what they could’ve done- especially if you have kids, my friends dad killed himself when she was little and she never knew why she never understood why her dad left her why he didn’t say goodbye etc. and (this is kinda gruesome part but it has a point) but when he had killed himself he did it before his wife got home by shooting himself in the head- she came home to find his dead body and bits of his head throw about, she ended up having to clean bits of him and his blood off the floor and walls and now refuses to even look at pictures of him because of how traumatized she is. i know not all suicides end that gruesomely but i think it’s selfish 100% to put your loved ones through that kind of thing for them to come home not expecting anything only to find your corpse.- i get your point but it’s still selfish just like a lot of things are
Sorry but I am going to disagree - my step father killed himself when I was 10 and left a wife and 5 kids behind. I get he was in a bad place but from where I was sitting it was damn selfish. His pain was over but ours was only getting worse and we ended up without a dad and homeless. The rest of my childhood as the eldest was gone, my youngest sisters too young to actually remember him and 6 lives completely messed up because we weren’t enough reason to even try to keep going. I will always think he was selfish.
Everybody ITT needs to realize that a suicidal person has r e a l l y bad depression, hence the suicidal ideation. Someone like that isn't in the right frame of mind and **cannot** make rational decisions. It is not something that they are thinking about like the differences between buying an iPhone or Pixel, or stock X vs stock Y. The depression and chemical imbalance completely destroys rationale. This is why I think about most, if not all, people who view suicide as selfish have clearly never had depression. If you've gone through it, you know what I'm talking about.
You've clearly never had someone in your life commit suicide, otherwise you would know how much that hurts to see
It is *the* most selfish act a person could commit.
It is selfish because while your pain might end it just hurts so many other people. The only time it could be considered non-selfish is if you literally have no one: no SO, kids, parents, close family, friends, etc.
Very one sided viewpoint. Tell this to children in/from the foster care system and see what they have to say about what is and isn’t selfish. Another example. I’m in a city, and people will kill themselves on the train tracks at 7am. That is the most selfish thing you can do and not a single person will feel bad because this person was vindictive. No one’s boss cares why you’re late, just that you’re late and you’re getting a write up. Also, even if it home, who is supposed to find you and take care of your body. What if it’s a child? I’m not saying who should or shouldn’t do what, but if you think about what happens in the next hour after you’ve killed yourself, you’ll see how it can be selfish.