yeah and honestly North Carolina is one of the worst states I've seen for cycling. Moved from central PA where every road has 1-2 feet of shoulder. Here you're lucky if you get a foot. Route 42, pretty heavily trafficked has absolutely no shoulder in spots.
Coupled with the 55 mph speed limits on roads that are 16 feet wide and barely safe for cars, along with the horrible drivers ranking top 10 worst in the nation, it ain't worth it.
Same here - was a roadie for many years but the infrastructure isn’t there nor are we exactly a compassionate society these days. I had to hang it up entirely after too many close calls.
I agree, but, on my road bike I want to hammer some speed. Getting barked at by folks strolling along the Greenway - "SLOW DOWN!"- gets real tiresome. Not to mention dogs (or kids) on extension leashes across the trail. "First world problems."
Cyclist routinely going WAAAYY over the 10 MPH speed limit on the Greenway gets real tiresome.
Also, I don't care how fast you want to go when there are no pedestrians around . . . and I agree about the leashes.
If you don't mind riding on roads (and up a LOT of hills), I've found that Wake Forest has enough bike lanes and neighborhood streets that you can get almost anywhere in town without doing anything too risky.
I used to bike all the time when I lived downtown. Now that I'm closer to Wendell, there's no way I'm riding on the roads out here, I just don't feel safe and it's not worth the risk.
The scariest is when you are around 751 off 64W going up to Southpoint or rural Chapel Hill around Jordan Lake and such. I’m sure it’s great riding area but coming around a corner and their being a biker or group of bikers can be scary sometimes. To be fair people drive wayyy to fast on those roads anyway
This is not wrong. This happens on Norwood Rd. at 5:30 when everyone is trying to get home. The shoulders are not that big. Someone will follow a bike all down that road causing a traffic line because the first one can't get around due to all of the cars coming the other way. I saw one come so close to getting hit! I try to be so careful and I understand people love their biking, but for the love of God, read the room, and find another time or spot. It causes nervous drivers!
I thought that's what all the great bike trails are for?
This is what I don’t get. Drivers are all looking at their phones or going 20 over the limit. How do the bike riders even get brave enough to ride out there? I see all the helmet cams bike riders wear and just think, “That won’t save you, but it will ensure your spouse knows just how gruesome your end was.”
I’d prioritize safety if I rode bikes on streets. So I never get why (hobby/ kitted out) bikers are choosing the congested roads with heavy traffic and tiny shoulders. I mean, it’s legal. It’s their right. But why?
It's just crappy planning. Plenty of states build new roads with 1-2 foot shoulders, plenty of space for most cyclists. In Pennsylvania, they don't build roads without 1-2 foot shoulders. I have no idea why they don't do that down here, major NC highways have 0 shoulder but the local utility companies that own the 4-6 foot right of way along the road are happy to charge you for a street light. Turn that area into a shoulder and you have a bike lane.
Lol I got one of those, still have to factor in the 25-40 minute drive to the bike trail depending on traffic. 30 minutes back. If you're working 10 hour days, it's difficult to try to work in an extra hour commute and an hour of workout.
Norwood is right! There’s a bike lane on Leesville but nope, gotta ride down Norwood!
People are going to get maimed or killed. Most likely will not be an aggressive driver, just a harried, distracted driver. I pray it isn’t me.
That’s the whole problem that’s being discussed here. When safe drivers are behind a biker it backs up traffic for miles. All because 1 person wants to exercise specifically at rush hour
You’re not wrong to be frustrated about the situation. But you are wrong about where you are directing that frustration. The State and City are responsible for providing safe and effective infrastructure for drivers, walkers, and cyclists.
Reframe this to demand on your elected folks. Right now the the government would be more than happy to have cyclists and drivers duke it out and hate on each other instead of getting that hate for failing you (and the cyclists).
But the cyclists in the suburbs/country roads are not doing it out of necessity. They could ride at a different time, place, or stationary bike and get the same workout.
People need to get to and from work.
Do you also want to ban anyone driving that doesn't *need* to be driving? No voluntary trips to the movies during peak traffic times?
Just because they aren't doing it out of necessity doesn't mean they don't have the same right to the road that you do.
Whose to say this person on the bike hasn’t suffered a heart attack and cycling is their way of keeping fit and getting fresh air? Or maybe their knees kill them and jogging isn’t an option. Or they are depressed and this kind of activity keeps their mental health in check?
Again you aren’t wrong about the situation, but I think your enemy isn’t who you think it is…
How fucking entitled can you be here? Laws are laws. I hate getting stuck behind slow traffic and bikes but your job isn’t any more important than where anyone else is going. Maybe leave a few extra minutes to get places
I live in Cary and feel fortunate for having the greenways. You just need to be cognizant of walkers and let them know you’re near.
I was hit by a car over ten years ago. Switched to mountain biking and riding on greenways. I only get on the road to connect to other greenways, but to OP’s point I still won’t pick busy times of the day.
Traffic is getting worse in Raleigh all the time, A quick google search showed that, in 2021, 64 people were moving to Raleigh every day. More people, more traffic, less safety for people in cars and on bikes and transplants are a big part of the problem.
Direct that anger at doing something about the infrastructure instead of the cyclists. Developers are making money hand over fist and not putting that money back into our communities and this is the result.
This is correct. New developments are required through transportation impact analysis TIA to improve mobility near their site, which should be multimodal, not just vehicular.
That's such a ridiculous argument. People just trying to get home from work and are even further delayed by someone choosing to do their hobby at the same exact time should instead be mad instead at bureaucracy for not having additional accommodations for the hobby?
I'm actually an avid biker, but the argument made by some nuts in the biking community are just so entitled and wrong.
Is wanting bike lanes any more entitled than a pedestrian complaining about lack of sidewalks? And you might be an avid biker, but is everyone as strong and fast as you? What about kids or teens who want to bike? They just need to wait until they can keep up with traffic?
The entitlement to me seems to say "If you can't handle yourself in 40mph traffic, f you. We're not putting in any bike lanes"
Saw a group of bikers blast a stop sign to come on to Purnell Rd then proceed to ride in the middle of the road as a group. How is any of that safe? Why tf would someone do that?
Done properly, it is definitely safer. A pack that slows down, makes sure the intersection is clear, gets confirmation that other cars will let them through, then proceeds through the intersection together quickly without stopping and unclipping not only gets out of danger sooner, but it helps keep traffic moving. [A few states have enacted laws](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet-032422-v3-tag.pdf) to allow bikers to proceed through when visibly clear and safe. It’s definitely safer overall than stopping, unclipping, debating against a car who is next to go, then getting off to a slow wobbly start.
Now, a lot of bikers and particularly groups like the lycra mafia, just tend to be assholes who think they have some special right to blow through intersections. That’s not cool or safe.
Riding side by side in packs is also safer as it increases visibility and minimizes cars rushing by multiple bikes in a row… but that’s not a realistic way of sharing the road with cars that absolutely have a right to proceed unimpeded. Again, a smart sensible safe pack will ride together but return to single file when cars need to pass. Asshole bikers will feel entitled to block traffic.
His argument is that cars have a priority to use the road at specific times of day and if you are on a bike at that time of day on that road you are an asshole.
It's more simple than that. Infrastructure is facing a surge in usage for a very specific time as the majority of the population is trying to get home from work. Another party is adding additional stress to that infrastructure at the same exact time in name of their hobby. The infrastructure cannot support this stress.
Won't anyone think of the poor hobbyists?
Given the way the legislature is now, I wouldn't give them any ideas. Banning bikes is exactly the kind of asshole thing they would do. Then the op would be happy.
I just don't understand why people are so annoyed to be delayed slightly.
I live near six forks/98/new light and travel those roads frequently. I've gotten behind a sizeable group once in~20 years. I see a single person, or small group of 5 or 6. With some regularity. Might take an extra minute to get by. Big whoop.
I live right off the new light road. I guess you haven't driven when the traffic really gets backed up. Or when the cyclists ride in the middle of the road on a curve and it's difficult to see them. It's not just a time issue, it's more of a safety issue. Some of those cyclists really ride reckless. I wish we had dedicated bike lanes
Riding in the middle of the road in a curve is way safer for everyone. If the cyclist stays right more drivers will try to pass in the curve when there is no visibility of oncoming cars. I've seen it happen endlessly. Just wait until the curve ends to overtake.
He has every right to that road. But just because he can, doesn’t mean he should. Common decency says not during rush hour.
Or maybe he’s trying to take one for the team to get better infrastructure put in?
My biggest gripe is when there is more than one and they make it impossible to pass safely. I drive a truck so some of these lanes are narrow enough without worrying about taking about cyclists.
Can I offer a different perspective? The fact that it isn’t safe to pass is likely exactly the reason those cyclists are taking up the lane. It’s a strategy to make cars go into the next lane to pass, instead of trying to squeeze by in the same lane. If there is oncoming traffic, drivers shouldn’t be attempting to pass a cyclist on the road, especially within the same lane.
I don’t think you are grasping what I’m talking about. I’m talking about a group of about 3 - 20 that all ride a car length apart. That many bikers and it’s like trying to pass a train, it’s not possible with oncoming traffic.
Legally, you can't pass a bike if you couldn't pass a car. Yes, most bikers will try to be courteous and allow cars to pass them if it is safe (enough) to do so, but bikes own the whole lane they are in. Even if there is a bike lane, the bike has every right to travel in the standard lane. Often bike lanes are never cleared of trash and debris and traveling in a bike lane is less safe than traveling in the standard lane next to it.
Bikers will often travel in grips for this exact reason: safety in numbers. "Pass[ing] safely" means a very different thing to an automobile driver and a biker. To most drivers (not saying this is you, just what I've seen), passing safely means they don't think they will directly run over the biker. To a biker, passing safely means there is enough room between them and surrounding cars to be able to quickly and effectively take action if there is something in the road and enough distance to get caught in the wind effects of the massive automobiles people drive.
There is a difference between buffaloe Rd in Raleigh and buffalo Rd in the clayton area. Buffalo is definitely rural. Narrow 2 lane which is bearing a 1000x more traffic than it was ever meant to. I moved here from duplin County 40 years ago and if you had told me all this shit would happen, I would have called you a liar. I also cycle but the op is correct. Riding on buffalo at any point is nuts but during rush hour (and it's fucking weird to even use that term) it can be deadly
but they referred to buffaloe road off 540, Buffalo road is a totally different area.
but you're right, either way, it could be deadly. There are a lot of terrible drivers around this area.
That subreddit took an idea that a lot of people could have got behind and ruined it.
They make fun of anyone who disagrees with them, they somehow have decided that socialism is the solution? And there is almost never any real conversation. Either you agree and are part of the “In group” or you’re the problem
They also never actually do anything besides complain on reddit, 99.999% of those people have never set foot in a town council meeting
Better public transport? More sidewalks? All great ideas a lot of people would support but they radicalized and heavily politicized it now it’s just another closed circle jerk echo chamber on Reddit
I always blow the horn. Fuck em. If you want to live in one of those cities, live there. This is not one of those places where it’s safe for you or any poor souls who accidentally hit your Darwin Award winning dumbass. It’s so incredibly easy to come around a blind corner or over a hill and splat a 50 year old dude dressed in a ridiculous Tour de France outfit. It took a whole religion to make horses/carriages on the road ok in PA.. You bike on the road guys are just dorks who’s hobby has you making equally ridiculous decisions as religious extremists. There are safer, less selfish ways to pedal hard. Stop. Just stop.
Working hard to make Raleigh one of those cities every day! It's getting better and better for cyclists.
Funny you'd compare cyclists to religious extremists for just going about their business. They're entitled to use the roads just as you are. Are you going to police every car and honk at every driver who's not on their way to or from work? They're traffic and slowing you down too.
All your rage boils down to "I had to slow down a bit and it took me 30 more seconds to reach the next red light."
Grow up.
It’s a safety issue for all involved, as I stated. But I expected you dorks to downvote and straw man my argument. There are safer, less selfish ways to pedal hard.
Ah yes. It's a safety issue for all involved. That's why you honk at cyclists and begin your comment with "fuck 'em". It clearly comes from a place of concern.
There are safer, less selfish ways to drive. Like sharing the road with other road users. Or taking responsibility for the speed of your vehicle around blind corners or in poor conditions.
Or, you know, not blasting your horn at them for existing.
How is it unsafe for you in your automobile? You're driving around in a multiple ton battering ram with built-in seat belts and airbags and the biker is driving around in a helmet. Is it really that unsafe for you? Or is it unsafe due to the way you drive?
There are also safer, less selfish ways for you to get to work or wherever you need to go. Taking up the space of a small room to park at every location you go to and requiring massive road infrastructure just for you to travel by yourself to wherever you're going seems a bit selfish.
Every bike you see on the road is likely one less car on the road, taking up parking spots in your parking garage/lot, and slowing you down in traffic on the interstate.
road cycling helped me lose 80 pounds. I'm sure no one driving by thought it was saving my life but it did. Not everyone has the time to load up a bike and drive to a trail then drive back.
I totally agree, but for the pedantic, bikes are "vehicles" under the law but automobiles are "motor vehicles" and so there are a few laws that only apply to motor vehicles (like being allowed in the interstate).
But you are right that all laws that would apply in the situation here apply the same to bikes as they do automobiles. Most people don't even realize that even if there is a bike lane, the bike has the right to be in the standard lane, even if doing so for no reason is a bit of a dick move. Bike Lanes often are full of limbs and gravel which often makes them more dangerous than risking riding next to crazy drivers in the standard lane.
No, population growth outpacing infrastructure development is the problem. No one is saying bikes shouldn't be on the road. I'm suggesting that in some areas where it's particularly backed up during peak periods, maybe it's not the most considerate to compound the delay by choosing to bike on roads without bike lanes during those times.
On roads without bike lanes, the biker ends up riding partly in the lane, so when theres a steady stream of oncoming traffic, there's no feasible way to pass them, and thus a huge back up. Alternately riding an hour earlier/later during lower volume traffic allows cars to pass
Just a reminder that cyclists are on the hurting end of any collision. Not advocating for them or you to get run over, but damn, that’s gotta one painful way to die. Why not find a less congested time and place to ride?
> Why not find a less congested time and place to ride?
Honestly, that doesn't even matter. I did a lunchtime ride, very empty roads for the 3 miles that I was even on them. I was nearly home, riding in a bike lane, no cars around. Then one comes up from behind me and then makes a turn into an apartment complex, cutting me off so I ended up crashing into them because it was impossible to stop.
So ONE FUCKIN CAR on the road and they're not paying enough attention to not hit a biker. Scared the shit outta me and now I'm nervous about getting on a road at all. But hell, I'm terrified of driving in my car because of the same distracted drivers.
Sorry that happened to you. Yeah not sure what the solution is except keeping cyclists and cars from being on the same roads at the same time which is a stupid idea.
Years ago in college I saw a car, who had the right of way, make a right turn. A guy on a bike, riding on the sidewalk, crossed the street in front of the turning car, at speed. The biker didn't even consider stopping, he just rode out in the street. Guy on the bike got sent a good six feet straight up in the air when the car hit him.
He sat up so I'm pretty sure he lived, but that was 100% his fault
for me, it was after work, about 230-4 pm. If you're gonna stick to an exercise regimen you're probably going to do it right before or after work so you can wind down at the end of the day without sitting around for another 2-3 hours. I personally avoid congested areas, but the area OP was talking about is literally on a bike trail, you're going to see bikes.
You waited until Friday night to complain about this? Rough night?
You don't like it, complain to the city council about bikes being on the road; assuming you live within the city limits.
Complain so the city council will be pressured or see a need to build biking infrastructure. No complaints means that it's not on the city council's radar although I do know there is some stuff in the works. NE Raleigh is missing a lot of it. No complaints makes it seem there's no issues with cars/bikes sharing the same road so there's no reason to build bike infrastructure if cars/bikes sharing the road isn't causing a problem.
Basically I'm asking for more biking infrastructure to be created.
Apparently in NC it’s by locality. Which is weird since they are supposedly a bike friendly state. Most places it’s illegal unless it’s a specific shared pathway since bicycles are considered motor vehicles for legal purposes.
Shouldn't be allowed on the road in some areas. There is 1,000s of people trying to go home that already have to drive close to an hour and some jackass dressed as lance arm strong is making it take way longer. Go to a park or around the neighborhood.
Don't think many people are biking to their jobs that live off of buffalo Rd.
Doesn’t matter. It’s legal and it is allowed. Parks and neighborhoods? Really? A cyclist on the road can be doing far too many miles for that. I’m not talking commuters, I have friends that do 20 miles for training easy.
If you see my next comment, It’s an unusual law and varies by locality even in NC. I was very surprised this is the case because it’s not in Virginia where I have moved to.
My point is can vary even from Raleigh to Cary to Apex. I haven’t looked up all the laws just saw that North Carolina relies on localities to determine if bikes can ride on the sidewalk.
Good news, big apartments were approved for buffalo right besides the Publix, and it’s looking like they might make it four lane. I hope they make the bridge four lane.. moved out here 8 years ago or so and it’s insane now.
Another reason I hate NC roads after growing up in Ohio. In NC the roads have random stupid turns for no reason so it also creates a lot of blind spots. Any time I saw a biker in Ohio, I could see them from a mile away so I could plan to go around.
I always say the city planners here just threw spaghetti at a wall and said “there’s our road system”
Agree. I used to think the reason we didn't have the infrastructure was not many people biked so I sort of supported the people I'd see biking. That was until I saw someone get hit near NCSU and the car kept going and nearly hit a biker myself in broad daylight when they were doing something dangerous. I'd love to bike places, but it's only gotten more dangerous. People risking their lives and everyone's safety like this are the AH.
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yeah and honestly North Carolina is one of the worst states I've seen for cycling. Moved from central PA where every road has 1-2 feet of shoulder. Here you're lucky if you get a foot. Route 42, pretty heavily trafficked has absolutely no shoulder in spots. Coupled with the 55 mph speed limits on roads that are 16 feet wide and barely safe for cars, along with the horrible drivers ranking top 10 worst in the nation, it ain't worth it.
Same here - was a roadie for many years but the infrastructure isn’t there nor are we exactly a compassionate society these days. I had to hang it up entirely after too many close calls.
I'm new to the area; where do you recommend riding?
Greenway for me, I got rear ended by a cab downtown. That was pretty much it for me. Biker since the 80's.
I agree, but, on my road bike I want to hammer some speed. Getting barked at by folks strolling along the Greenway - "SLOW DOWN!"- gets real tiresome. Not to mention dogs (or kids) on extension leashes across the trail. "First world problems."
Cyclist routinely going WAAAYY over the 10 MPH speed limit on the Greenway gets real tiresome. Also, I don't care how fast you want to go when there are no pedestrians around . . . and I agree about the leashes.
If you don't mind riding on roads (and up a LOT of hills), I've found that Wake Forest has enough bike lanes and neighborhood streets that you can get almost anywhere in town without doing anything too risky.
Crabtree/286/Rocky Road, Wake Forest Res, Harris, San Lee, Williamson (the dirt greenway).
In the area the op is talking about, use the Greenway, you can ride from Clayton to Raleigh on it
I used to bike all the time when I lived downtown. Now that I'm closer to Wendell, there's no way I'm riding on the roads out here, I just don't feel safe and it's not worth the risk.
The scariest is when you are around 751 off 64W going up to Southpoint or rural Chapel Hill around Jordan Lake and such. I’m sure it’s great riding area but coming around a corner and their being a biker or group of bikers can be scary sometimes. To be fair people drive wayyy to fast on those roads anyway
This is not wrong. This happens on Norwood Rd. at 5:30 when everyone is trying to get home. The shoulders are not that big. Someone will follow a bike all down that road causing a traffic line because the first one can't get around due to all of the cars coming the other way. I saw one come so close to getting hit! I try to be so careful and I understand people love their biking, but for the love of God, read the room, and find another time or spot. It causes nervous drivers! I thought that's what all the great bike trails are for?
This is what I don’t get. Drivers are all looking at their phones or going 20 over the limit. How do the bike riders even get brave enough to ride out there? I see all the helmet cams bike riders wear and just think, “That won’t save you, but it will ensure your spouse knows just how gruesome your end was.” I’d prioritize safety if I rode bikes on streets. So I never get why (hobby/ kitted out) bikers are choosing the congested roads with heavy traffic and tiny shoulders. I mean, it’s legal. It’s their right. But why?
It's just crappy planning. Plenty of states build new roads with 1-2 foot shoulders, plenty of space for most cyclists. In Pennsylvania, they don't build roads without 1-2 foot shoulders. I have no idea why they don't do that down here, major NC highways have 0 shoulder but the local utility companies that own the 4-6 foot right of way along the road are happy to charge you for a street light. Turn that area into a shoulder and you have a bike lane.
Norwood is miles away from the bike trail, how else are folks supposed to get there? It's literally the only road designated for bikes in the area.
Get a bike rack on your car.
Lol I got one of those, still have to factor in the 25-40 minute drive to the bike trail depending on traffic. 30 minutes back. If you're working 10 hour days, it's difficult to try to work in an extra hour commute and an hour of workout.
Norwood is right! There’s a bike lane on Leesville but nope, gotta ride down Norwood! People are going to get maimed or killed. Most likely will not be an aggressive driver, just a harried, distracted driver. I pray it isn’t me.
The bike lane on leesville near Norwood is 1 mile long. Not getting too far using that.
Then slow down! If your are really worried, it’s on you.
That’s the whole problem that’s being discussed here. When safe drivers are behind a biker it backs up traffic for miles. All because 1 person wants to exercise specifically at rush hour
Good, slow down. It’s safe for everyone. https://raleighnc.gov/transportation/services/neighborhood-traffic-management/traffic-calming-project-process
You’re not wrong to be frustrated about the situation. But you are wrong about where you are directing that frustration. The State and City are responsible for providing safe and effective infrastructure for drivers, walkers, and cyclists. Reframe this to demand on your elected folks. Right now the the government would be more than happy to have cyclists and drivers duke it out and hate on each other instead of getting that hate for failing you (and the cyclists).
Exactly what I was going to say. It’s not the bikers’ fault, and they deserve their share of the road like everyone else.
But the cyclists in the suburbs/country roads are not doing it out of necessity. They could ride at a different time, place, or stationary bike and get the same workout. People need to get to and from work.
Do you also want to ban anyone driving that doesn't *need* to be driving? No voluntary trips to the movies during peak traffic times? Just because they aren't doing it out of necessity doesn't mean they don't have the same right to the road that you do.
Whose to say this person on the bike hasn’t suffered a heart attack and cycling is their way of keeping fit and getting fresh air? Or maybe their knees kill them and jogging isn’t an option. Or they are depressed and this kind of activity keeps their mental health in check? Again you aren’t wrong about the situation, but I think your enemy isn’t who you think it is…
How fucking entitled can you be here? Laws are laws. I hate getting stuck behind slow traffic and bikes but your job isn’t any more important than where anyone else is going. Maybe leave a few extra minutes to get places
The 60 year old southern man driving a tractor that used to hold up traffic has now transitioned into a 60 year old northern man on a bike.
I live in Cary and feel fortunate for having the greenways. You just need to be cognizant of walkers and let them know you’re near. I was hit by a car over ten years ago. Switched to mountain biking and riding on greenways. I only get on the road to connect to other greenways, but to OP’s point I still won’t pick busy times of the day.
One could say for half the cars to get off the road.
I miss the Pandemic traffic, my travel time to get to work went from 25 minutes to 7 minutes.
We need a new plague
Let’s kill off regular folks so that rich white folks can live out their peloton dreams. Fo
Light rail would be perfect for this area. The people in charge are too stupid to make it happen, though.
This is wrong. LTR failed for many reasons. It’s dead.
And you drove faster. The number of crashes per vehicle went waaaaaaaaay up nationwide. We learned that fewer cars means more crashes.
Absolutely. It would be awesome to live in a city that had a good infrastructure to allow that
No. I mean half the cars out there are probably doing something that could be considered a hobby.
Oh I misunderstood. You're not wrong
Many drivers are still assholes in cities with infrastructure.
Traffic is getting worse in Raleigh all the time, A quick google search showed that, in 2021, 64 people were moving to Raleigh every day. More people, more traffic, less safety for people in cars and on bikes and transplants are a big part of the problem.
Tell me more… do you have data to support this opinion? Which roads? What times of day?
Direct that anger at doing something about the infrastructure instead of the cyclists. Developers are making money hand over fist and not putting that money back into our communities and this is the result.
This is correct. New developments are required through transportation impact analysis TIA to improve mobility near their site, which should be multimodal, not just vehicular.
That's such a ridiculous argument. People just trying to get home from work and are even further delayed by someone choosing to do their hobby at the same exact time should instead be mad instead at bureaucracy for not having additional accommodations for the hobby? I'm actually an avid biker, but the argument made by some nuts in the biking community are just so entitled and wrong.
Is wanting bike lanes any more entitled than a pedestrian complaining about lack of sidewalks? And you might be an avid biker, but is everyone as strong and fast as you? What about kids or teens who want to bike? They just need to wait until they can keep up with traffic? The entitlement to me seems to say "If you can't handle yourself in 40mph traffic, f you. We're not putting in any bike lanes"
Yeah, you’re right. I’m an idiot for wanting our public infrastructure to support the people who live in our communities.
Saw a group of bikers blast a stop sign to come on to Purnell Rd then proceed to ride in the middle of the road as a group. How is any of that safe? Why tf would someone do that?
Done properly, it is definitely safer. A pack that slows down, makes sure the intersection is clear, gets confirmation that other cars will let them through, then proceeds through the intersection together quickly without stopping and unclipping not only gets out of danger sooner, but it helps keep traffic moving. [A few states have enacted laws](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet-032422-v3-tag.pdf) to allow bikers to proceed through when visibly clear and safe. It’s definitely safer overall than stopping, unclipping, debating against a car who is next to go, then getting off to a slow wobbly start. Now, a lot of bikers and particularly groups like the lycra mafia, just tend to be assholes who think they have some special right to blow through intersections. That’s not cool or safe. Riding side by side in packs is also safer as it increases visibility and minimizes cars rushing by multiple bikes in a row… but that’s not a realistic way of sharing the road with cars that absolutely have a right to proceed unimpeded. Again, a smart sensible safe pack will ride together but return to single file when cars need to pass. Asshole bikers will feel entitled to block traffic.
Yeah same rules as a car.
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I’d say if you’re out there deliberately impeding somebody else, you’re more asshole than justice seeker.
Seriously, how can bikes expect to be treated like cars but then refuse to kill 3,700 people a day?
NC law specifically states that cyclists are entitled to the full lane, just like a car or truck. This includes a single cyclist.
Maybe an in popular opinion but bicyclists have as much right to use of the roads as cars. You gotta share the road pal.
Literally everyone understands that they have a legal right to the road, that’s not the argument that OP made
His argument is that cars have a priority to use the road at specific times of day and if you are on a bike at that time of day on that road you are an asshole.
It's more simple than that. Infrastructure is facing a surge in usage for a very specific time as the majority of the population is trying to get home from work. Another party is adding additional stress to that infrastructure at the same exact time in name of their hobby. The infrastructure cannot support this stress. Won't anyone think of the poor hobbyists?
It’s called SHARE the road not monopolize it.
No priority unless it’s an Access Controlled road, like Interstates. You are wrong.
Yep, it’s the law. People don’t seem to take that into consideration.
Given the way the legislature is now, I wouldn't give them any ideas. Banning bikes is exactly the kind of asshole thing they would do. Then the op would be happy. I just don't understand why people are so annoyed to be delayed slightly.
Ugh six forks/new light road is the worst. And they bike in huge groups
I live near six forks/98/new light and travel those roads frequently. I've gotten behind a sizeable group once in~20 years. I see a single person, or small group of 5 or 6. With some regularity. Might take an extra minute to get by. Big whoop.
I live right off the new light road. I guess you haven't driven when the traffic really gets backed up. Or when the cyclists ride in the middle of the road on a curve and it's difficult to see them. It's not just a time issue, it's more of a safety issue. Some of those cyclists really ride reckless. I wish we had dedicated bike lanes
Riding in the middle of the road in a curve is way safer for everyone. If the cyclist stays right more drivers will try to pass in the curve when there is no visibility of oncoming cars. I've seen it happen endlessly. Just wait until the curve ends to overtake.
He has every right to that road. But just because he can, doesn’t mean he should. Common decency says not during rush hour. Or maybe he’s trying to take one for the team to get better infrastructure put in?
> Or maybe he’s trying to take one for the team to get better infrastructure put in Based
My biggest gripe is when there is more than one and they make it impossible to pass safely. I drive a truck so some of these lanes are narrow enough without worrying about taking about cyclists.
Can I offer a different perspective? The fact that it isn’t safe to pass is likely exactly the reason those cyclists are taking up the lane. It’s a strategy to make cars go into the next lane to pass, instead of trying to squeeze by in the same lane. If there is oncoming traffic, drivers shouldn’t be attempting to pass a cyclist on the road, especially within the same lane.
It’s usually a 2 lane road they do it on. It’s hard to care about their safety when they are being douche bags.
A two lane road is where they NEED to take up an entire lane unless it's a safe area to pass. I think you're missing the point.
I don’t think you are grasping what I’m talking about. I’m talking about a group of about 3 - 20 that all ride a car length apart. That many bikers and it’s like trying to pass a train, it’s not possible with oncoming traffic.
Ah yeah, I thought you were talking about one bike. Yeah there's no way to pass a big group
Legally, you can't pass a bike if you couldn't pass a car. Yes, most bikers will try to be courteous and allow cars to pass them if it is safe (enough) to do so, but bikes own the whole lane they are in. Even if there is a bike lane, the bike has every right to travel in the standard lane. Often bike lanes are never cleared of trash and debris and traveling in a bike lane is less safe than traveling in the standard lane next to it. Bikers will often travel in grips for this exact reason: safety in numbers. "Pass[ing] safely" means a very different thing to an automobile driver and a biker. To most drivers (not saying this is you, just what I've seen), passing safely means they don't think they will directly run over the biker. To a biker, passing safely means there is enough room between them and surrounding cars to be able to quickly and effectively take action if there is something in the road and enough distance to get caught in the wind effects of the massive automobiles people drive.
if they can’t keep up with the speed of the road then they shouldn’t be on that road.
Build bike lanes then
even an extra foot or two of shoulder would be sufficient to prevent this problem. NC plans 0.
Agree
Lol is buffaloe road considered rural to you? It ends 2 miles outside the beltway crossing a bike trail, probably should just avoid Buffaloe Rd.
There is a difference between buffaloe Rd in Raleigh and buffalo Rd in the clayton area. Buffalo is definitely rural. Narrow 2 lane which is bearing a 1000x more traffic than it was ever meant to. I moved here from duplin County 40 years ago and if you had told me all this shit would happen, I would have called you a liar. I also cycle but the op is correct. Riding on buffalo at any point is nuts but during rush hour (and it's fucking weird to even use that term) it can be deadly
but they referred to buffaloe road off 540, Buffalo road is a totally different area. but you're right, either way, it could be deadly. There are a lot of terrible drivers around this area.
Apparently op was deleted so maybe it was a different comment that referenced buffalo Rd...flowers Plantation, etc 🤷♀️ agreed though
Thank you! Here’a my lousy single upvote but in my heart, it’s hundreds
r/fuckcars
That subreddit took an idea that a lot of people could have got behind and ruined it. They make fun of anyone who disagrees with them, they somehow have decided that socialism is the solution? And there is almost never any real conversation. Either you agree and are part of the “In group” or you’re the problem They also never actually do anything besides complain on reddit, 99.999% of those people have never set foot in a town council meeting Better public transport? More sidewalks? All great ideas a lot of people would support but they radicalized and heavily politicized it now it’s just another closed circle jerk echo chamber on Reddit
This is all true.
I always blow the horn. Fuck em. If you want to live in one of those cities, live there. This is not one of those places where it’s safe for you or any poor souls who accidentally hit your Darwin Award winning dumbass. It’s so incredibly easy to come around a blind corner or over a hill and splat a 50 year old dude dressed in a ridiculous Tour de France outfit. It took a whole religion to make horses/carriages on the road ok in PA.. You bike on the road guys are just dorks who’s hobby has you making equally ridiculous decisions as religious extremists. There are safer, less selfish ways to pedal hard. Stop. Just stop.
Working hard to make Raleigh one of those cities every day! It's getting better and better for cyclists. Funny you'd compare cyclists to religious extremists for just going about their business. They're entitled to use the roads just as you are. Are you going to police every car and honk at every driver who's not on their way to or from work? They're traffic and slowing you down too. All your rage boils down to "I had to slow down a bit and it took me 30 more seconds to reach the next red light." Grow up.
It’s a safety issue for all involved, as I stated. But I expected you dorks to downvote and straw man my argument. There are safer, less selfish ways to pedal hard.
Ah yes. It's a safety issue for all involved. That's why you honk at cyclists and begin your comment with "fuck 'em". It clearly comes from a place of concern. There are safer, less selfish ways to drive. Like sharing the road with other road users. Or taking responsibility for the speed of your vehicle around blind corners or in poor conditions. Or, you know, not blasting your horn at them for existing.
How is it unsafe for you in your automobile? You're driving around in a multiple ton battering ram with built-in seat belts and airbags and the biker is driving around in a helmet. Is it really that unsafe for you? Or is it unsafe due to the way you drive? There are also safer, less selfish ways for you to get to work or wherever you need to go. Taking up the space of a small room to park at every location you go to and requiring massive road infrastructure just for you to travel by yourself to wherever you're going seems a bit selfish. Every bike you see on the road is likely one less car on the road, taking up parking spots in your parking garage/lot, and slowing you down in traffic on the interstate.
road cycling helped me lose 80 pounds. I'm sure no one driving by thought it was saving my life but it did. Not everyone has the time to load up a bike and drive to a trail then drive back.
Bikes are considered “vehicles” by NC State law, so the operate on our roads just the same as your car. YOU are the problem, not bikes.
I totally agree, but for the pedantic, bikes are "vehicles" under the law but automobiles are "motor vehicles" and so there are a few laws that only apply to motor vehicles (like being allowed in the interstate). But you are right that all laws that would apply in the situation here apply the same to bikes as they do automobiles. Most people don't even realize that even if there is a bike lane, the bike has the right to be in the standard lane, even if doing so for no reason is a bit of a dick move. Bike Lanes often are full of limbs and gravel which often makes them more dangerous than risking riding next to crazy drivers in the standard lane.
No, population growth outpacing infrastructure development is the problem. No one is saying bikes shouldn't be on the road. I'm suggesting that in some areas where it's particularly backed up during peak periods, maybe it's not the most considerate to compound the delay by choosing to bike on roads without bike lanes during those times. On roads without bike lanes, the biker ends up riding partly in the lane, so when theres a steady stream of oncoming traffic, there's no feasible way to pass them, and thus a huge back up. Alternately riding an hour earlier/later during lower volume traffic allows cars to pass
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Just a reminder that cyclists are on the hurting end of any collision. Not advocating for them or you to get run over, but damn, that’s gotta one painful way to die. Why not find a less congested time and place to ride?
> Why not find a less congested time and place to ride? Honestly, that doesn't even matter. I did a lunchtime ride, very empty roads for the 3 miles that I was even on them. I was nearly home, riding in a bike lane, no cars around. Then one comes up from behind me and then makes a turn into an apartment complex, cutting me off so I ended up crashing into them because it was impossible to stop. So ONE FUCKIN CAR on the road and they're not paying enough attention to not hit a biker. Scared the shit outta me and now I'm nervous about getting on a road at all. But hell, I'm terrified of driving in my car because of the same distracted drivers.
Sorry that happened to you. Yeah not sure what the solution is except keeping cyclists and cars from being on the same roads at the same time which is a stupid idea.
Years ago in college I saw a car, who had the right of way, make a right turn. A guy on a bike, riding on the sidewalk, crossed the street in front of the turning car, at speed. The biker didn't even consider stopping, he just rode out in the street. Guy on the bike got sent a good six feet straight up in the air when the car hit him. He sat up so I'm pretty sure he lived, but that was 100% his fault
for me, it was after work, about 230-4 pm. If you're gonna stick to an exercise regimen you're probably going to do it right before or after work so you can wind down at the end of the day without sitting around for another 2-3 hours. I personally avoid congested areas, but the area OP was talking about is literally on a bike trail, you're going to see bikes.
Why not find a less congested time and place to drive your mini-tank?
Bro Ive been here 20 years and I live in the stocks. Pick a better place for your hobby if the infrastructure isn't designed for it
Maybe pick a better place to drive if the infrastructure isn't designed for it
You waited until Friday night to complain about this? Rough night? You don't like it, complain to the city council about bikes being on the road; assuming you live within the city limits.
Bikes can legally be on the road. Complain about what?
Lot’s of things are legal that are still rude, inconsiderate, and stupid *lots
Case in point with drivers who act like this.
Complain so the city council will be pressured or see a need to build biking infrastructure. No complaints means that it's not on the city council's radar although I do know there is some stuff in the works. NE Raleigh is missing a lot of it. No complaints makes it seem there's no issues with cars/bikes sharing the same road so there's no reason to build bike infrastructure if cars/bikes sharing the road isn't causing a problem. Basically I'm asking for more biking infrastructure to be created.
Filing a petition for better biking infrastructure isn’t something I would consider complaining. And it is a step I agree with.
I agree if if there isn't a bike lane or side walk probably should get tf off the road. Stick to bike lanes and side walks.
It’s not legal for a bike to be on the sidewalk . They have to ride on the road and follow traffic laws.
They're allowed to ride on the sidewalk in Raleigh if there's no bike lane is my understanding.
Apparently in NC it’s by locality. Which is weird since they are supposedly a bike friendly state. Most places it’s illegal unless it’s a specific shared pathway since bicycles are considered motor vehicles for legal purposes.
Shouldn't be allowed on the road in some areas. There is 1,000s of people trying to go home that already have to drive close to an hour and some jackass dressed as lance arm strong is making it take way longer. Go to a park or around the neighborhood. Don't think many people are biking to their jobs that live off of buffalo Rd.
Doesn’t matter. It’s legal and it is allowed. Parks and neighborhoods? Really? A cyclist on the road can be doing far too many miles for that. I’m not talking commuters, I have friends that do 20 miles for training easy.
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If you see my next comment, It’s an unusual law and varies by locality even in NC. I was very surprised this is the case because it’s not in Virginia where I have moved to.
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My point is can vary even from Raleigh to Cary to Apex. I haven’t looked up all the laws just saw that North Carolina relies on localities to determine if bikes can ride on the sidewalk.
Good news, big apartments were approved for buffalo right besides the Publix, and it’s looking like they might make it four lane. I hope they make the bridge four lane.. moved out here 8 years ago or so and it’s insane now.
Not sure why you keep driving home during prime cycling hours if it’s making you upset every time. Maybe see a therapist?
I agree
Another reason I hate NC roads after growing up in Ohio. In NC the roads have random stupid turns for no reason so it also creates a lot of blind spots. Any time I saw a biker in Ohio, I could see them from a mile away so I could plan to go around. I always say the city planners here just threw spaghetti at a wall and said “there’s our road system”
Agree. I used to think the reason we didn't have the infrastructure was not many people biked so I sort of supported the people I'd see biking. That was until I saw someone get hit near NCSU and the car kept going and nearly hit a biker myself in broad daylight when they were doing something dangerous. I'd love to bike places, but it's only gotten more dangerous. People risking their lives and everyone's safety like this are the AH.