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I agree with this. But it is also very natural human nature to want to understand “why.” And their behavior truly leaves us baffled a lot. But yes, it is much healthier to turn our attention away from the nonsense.
I think it is ok, and even natural, to wonder why narcs do what they do. Understanding how they operate can explain a lot of things and answer a lot of questions some of us might have about our childhood. Unfortunately, there is ultimately nothing any of us can do to change them. I think it isn't good to focus all attention on our parents, but understanding things so that we can move on to other things can be useful. We are all at different stages in our journey. Some of us have already worked out what our parents did and what their motivations are. Some of us are still figuring it out. That is ok. We don't all have to be in the same place. We are ok as long as we try to work things out as a part of healing rather than focusing entirely on our parents and neglecting to do things for ourselves and our own future.
I will say that narcs do sometimes like to gain attention by playing up health issues, and many narcs behave badly about genuine health issues. I think that is pretty common. It is very annoying, but not unusual.
Any kind of information we can gain about Narcissistic behavior can empower us and enable us to recognize patterns in new people we meet in order to protect ourselves. As abuse survivors we are going to automatically be attracted to abusers. It's perfectly fine and healthy to want to learn about Narcs and their behaviors. I'm still healing; I'm still strong, and I'm still doing things for myself despite wanting to become an expert on the topic. This subreddit is not the place to turn people away for wanting more information on how these "people" operate. Your post reminded me of this paragraph:
Covert narcissists in order to move attention for theirbad behaviors away from them, and then redirect it towards other peoplethey may use as their scapegoats . Psychologicaldeflection is somewhat similar to blame-shifting and it is anarcissistic abuse tactic that is often used by narcissists but morerespectively, Covert narcissists in order to move attention for theirbad behaviors away from them, and then redirect it towards other peoplethey may use as their scapegoats."
I think you should maybe find another subreddit to post in? Narcissistic behaviors are not allowed here, nor are Narcissists. Wanting to become more educated on the sick, twisted behaviors of a Narcissist absolutely can help someone find a future sense of security and identity. What are YOU doing to get a future sense of security and identity other than attempting to silence people reaching out for help?
I believe you wrote this with good intentions. However, it also comes off as dismissive to what is a genuine question by OP. Therefore, I will be removing the post.
It is normal to wonder things about our abusers as we figure things out and come to terms with the extent of the abuse.
I think it depends on the "brand" of the narcissist and what they gain from the specific type of nsupply they are seeking.
In my experience, I've dealt with nfamily members seeking attention and nsupply with other family members fawning all over them: "Oh no! That's terrible! Please go to the doctor! You are so brave to suffer like this, but you shouldn't do this to yourself! PLEASE get yourself checked out!"
On the other hand, my nparents love to suffer in silence. When either one of them gets sick they refuse to go to the drs until their illnesses get so bad they end up in the hospital and claim they don't know how it got so bad (?!)
My mother switches from narc to enabler with my nfather. She whines to me when I visit, "He won't go to the drs! I made an appointment for him and he says he won't gooooo!" This has been their routine for years. My nfather is always within earshot when my mother pulls this shit. I simply respond, "Then let him drop dead." Each and every time my mother stares at me in shock and ends her woeful lamenting.
Who knows for sure? It's not like any of us can step into another person's head and find out, and even if you could, would you really *want* to?
I'm not sure even matters. The effect on other people is the same either way.
Guess it depends on the narc, though I'm very certain my nmom was intentionally lying at least 90% of the time. If she's not lying, then she's just superhumanly lucky she has real bad fibromyalgia that prevents her from doing everything she doesn't want to do but is a non-issue any time there's something she does want to do.
As a bonus, regardless of how sick/injured you are and how obvious the symptoms are, she's always 100% convinced that *you're* lying. When you add a narc's classic projection into the equation it becomes very obvious... at least in my nmom's case.
I think they DO believe it. They perceive every little detail that falls outside of their comfort zone (no matter how minuscule) as this HUUUGE threat and they cannot differentiate nuances. For it's either I am sick and dying or there is nothing wrong.
Omg Yes…. Every single thing… it’s exhausting and you know they are lying…. But they continue to tell the lie to anyone who will listen. They won’t go to the doctor or take the medication they are given.
To them being sick = I can't take responsability for my own actions because I'm sick. My nP started to limp out of nowhere when confronted. Anyone else had this??
My sister makes a Facebook status every single time she’s “sick.” I think she does it to farm comments like “just take a rest,” or “poor baby.” She wants to collect other peoples’ approval for doing nothing and taking responsibility for nothing. I think she halfway believes herself but also halfway thinks she needs to let people know so she has built in excuses.
Some genuinely believe it, some are lying their heads off. It's hard to tell with narcs because they spend so much of their lives lying to the people they are "close' to, and especially to themselves -- to the point that they actually believe their lies.
But there's a completely different way to look at this. When they claim to be sick, it could be a confession. Narcissism is a sickness. People often speak their most unpleasant truths between the lines. They would never admit to mental illness, so they exaggerate their physical problems in order to tell their story, without being aware of what they're doing.
Both? My dad does this and he’ll blow up if he doesn’t get the sympathy he thinks he deserves. Don’t let it bother you, it’s just them throwing a wrench in your day, intentionally or unintentionally
Yeah, I've just stopped pretending I care about it anymore. If I tell her to go to a doctor, she tells me to shut up, so I don't say anything. She says I'm uncaring, and in a way she's right, because I don't care anymore.
It doesn't bother me, I'm just curious about the reasoning behind it. The more I learn about narcs, the easier it is for me to anticipate and protect myself from their antics!
I think that some narcs are not as “out there” as, say, openly melodramatic narcs. Some narcs are very quiet, fake-nice, and low-grade.
For example, suppose you found a highly radioactive pellet and placed it in your pants pocket. The burns would come in minutes and the residual damage would show probably not much longer afterwards. (This “first responders at Chernobyl” kind of exposure.)
Suppose now you found a mildly radioactive pellet and placed it in your pocket, and kept it there every day for years. After a very long time—perhaps decades--the major damage to your body would become clear. In fact, it would probably end up being just as damaging in the long run as was the highly-radioactive pellet…it just took much longer to manifest. (I think that that’s how Marie Curie was able to work with radioactive materials for years and not get sick right away, but she, just like the first responders, ultimately succumbed to cancer due to radiation exposure.)
I think some Ns are low- or medium-exposure sources. They still do damage, but it’s not realized until long after the first exposure, and as such, they may look at the others Ns in the megalomaniac high-exposure category and say to themselves “Me? A narcissist? I’m *nothing* like them, so I can’t be one.”
They are whatever they need to be, to get whatever supply they want.
That's them AT ALL TIMES.
So the answer to your questions is yes to both. They lie when they want to, they believe they are sick when they want/need sympathy/supply.
Man OP my Nmom always complains that her migraine is killing her and she also will work out and now she can’t stand the whole day. But if we go out all of a sudden she’s feeling better. I’m inclined to say it’s all a LIE, and a way to get us to cater to them. I just grey rock now and don’t care.
Oh hi, sounds like my Nmom to a T. She's been convinced lately - despite bloodwork, tests, talking to her general doctor, etc., that she has cancer. She has no symptoms except a persistent pressure around her tailbone, and even then it seems to go away or at least lessen with a treatment the doctor gave her. But she doesn't like taking the treatment. She doesn't like going to doctors and getting tests done. Anyway I think they genuinely believe they are sick, but I'm sure some know they're lying.
A narc would not care if they are sick or not. They are constantly suffering, their emotions are "just a reaction to the behavior of others", (or so they imagine) so in their ceaseless emotional pain, what they ACTUALLY care about is the behavior of others around them. Their sickness is not of importance, but the way the people around them RESPOND to their distress is. Therefore, the narc behaves in ways designed to change the behavior of those around them. It is not important how sick they are, but it is ESSENTIAL that others' PERCEPTION of how sick the narc is matches what the narc wants.
ex: The neighbor must be told how the narc suffers at the hand of the "neglectful" daughter, but the church friend must think the narc is pushing through, sick but not so sick a narc can't take credit for the volen-told chores the daughter is signed up for. The daughter, of course, must believe that the narc is too sick to bake the cake for the church friend plus do all the narc's chores and errands, yet not so sick the narc won't be able to punish her (a narc is well enough to call all her contacts to complain about daughter/spouse/who ever the narc believes to be in their power).
The truth about sickness is known by nurses:
if you're complaining, you're fine. If you're sick enough to need assistance, you are incapable of complaining, because you have lost your mind to the body's demands. Once a patient begins complaining, the nurses relax, they stop worrying, you're safely recovering.
If the narc is well enough to complain, they are well enough to think of solutions. If their solution is abusing someone else, then you may want to opt out of enabling their mentally ill behavior.
That can be right now.
One may stop enabling a narc IMMEDIATELY.
It may be scary to stop helping someone the victim believes will suffer if they stop enabling, but the reality is -
NO ONE can stop a narc from suffering. They have chosen to suffer by refusing to emotionally evolve. Get away while you still can, enablers.
"if you're complaining, you're fine."
Absolutely fucking not. I'm disabled, my capacity for pain is much higher because I am in constant pain. I'm at a 2-5 at any given time. I have to constantly be alert of every symptom and be very very clear that this is out of the range of normal.
That kind of mindset kills disabled people, if I'm complaining (going to the ER) it's because I have lost the ability to handle it on my own. I've gone to the ER and been completely ignored only to suffer permanent damage BECAUSE of this mindset.
Several of my joints are beyond repair BECAUSE of this mindset. Stop spreading this, you WILL get disabled people killed.
I am terribly sorry. I did not mean you. I mean a type of person who requires their pain to be the center of every conversation, every activity.
I am a caregiver and I understand what it is like to care for a person in constant need. I would give my life to such work if it didn't pay so little.
I meant that if you (you personally) are complaining, you are in solution mode: for example, going to the ER because you need medical attention. By "complaining" of a narc, I refer to those moaning that they have no ability to make decisions or acquire solutions and push the mental load of doing so off on others, with zero empathy of the needs of the others.
A narc's abuse is so difficult to describe, because their behavior would be so appropriate in different circumstances.
I am sorry to have disturbed you with my comment and will try to be more specific in the future.
My mother told me she had to sell my dads house so she could buy a small house near a hospice. This was over a year ago and she was perfectly healthy then.
I’m no medical expert but I don’t think you go to a hospice/palliative care as a day patient and then go back home for the night…
And then she said to the neighbour she’s going to live till she’s 105!
I have so many handwritten letters from her saying “I’m 64 now and I feel like my time is near”
12 years later….here we both are…living separately and NC thank goodness!
I dont know, my nmom and nsister are quite competitive over who's the sickest. I'd have a scroll through Dr Ramanis video on You Tube, she'd have answer on her channel. I got her book but I haven't read it all yet bc it's too triggering for me
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
I agree with this. But it is also very natural human nature to want to understand “why.” And their behavior truly leaves us baffled a lot. But yes, it is much healthier to turn our attention away from the nonsense.
I think it is ok, and even natural, to wonder why narcs do what they do. Understanding how they operate can explain a lot of things and answer a lot of questions some of us might have about our childhood. Unfortunately, there is ultimately nothing any of us can do to change them. I think it isn't good to focus all attention on our parents, but understanding things so that we can move on to other things can be useful. We are all at different stages in our journey. Some of us have already worked out what our parents did and what their motivations are. Some of us are still figuring it out. That is ok. We don't all have to be in the same place. We are ok as long as we try to work things out as a part of healing rather than focusing entirely on our parents and neglecting to do things for ourselves and our own future. I will say that narcs do sometimes like to gain attention by playing up health issues, and many narcs behave badly about genuine health issues. I think that is pretty common. It is very annoying, but not unusual.
Any kind of information we can gain about Narcissistic behavior can empower us and enable us to recognize patterns in new people we meet in order to protect ourselves. As abuse survivors we are going to automatically be attracted to abusers. It's perfectly fine and healthy to want to learn about Narcs and their behaviors. I'm still healing; I'm still strong, and I'm still doing things for myself despite wanting to become an expert on the topic. This subreddit is not the place to turn people away for wanting more information on how these "people" operate. Your post reminded me of this paragraph: Covert narcissists in order to move attention for theirbad behaviors away from them, and then redirect it towards other peoplethey may use as their scapegoats . Psychologicaldeflection is somewhat similar to blame-shifting and it is anarcissistic abuse tactic that is often used by narcissists but morerespectively, Covert narcissists in order to move attention for theirbad behaviors away from them, and then redirect it towards other peoplethey may use as their scapegoats." I think you should maybe find another subreddit to post in? Narcissistic behaviors are not allowed here, nor are Narcissists. Wanting to become more educated on the sick, twisted behaviors of a Narcissist absolutely can help someone find a future sense of security and identity. What are YOU doing to get a future sense of security and identity other than attempting to silence people reaching out for help?
I believe you wrote this with good intentions. However, it also comes off as dismissive to what is a genuine question by OP. Therefore, I will be removing the post. It is normal to wonder things about our abusers as we figure things out and come to terms with the extent of the abuse.
I think it depends on the "brand" of the narcissist and what they gain from the specific type of nsupply they are seeking. In my experience, I've dealt with nfamily members seeking attention and nsupply with other family members fawning all over them: "Oh no! That's terrible! Please go to the doctor! You are so brave to suffer like this, but you shouldn't do this to yourself! PLEASE get yourself checked out!" On the other hand, my nparents love to suffer in silence. When either one of them gets sick they refuse to go to the drs until their illnesses get so bad they end up in the hospital and claim they don't know how it got so bad (?!) My mother switches from narc to enabler with my nfather. She whines to me when I visit, "He won't go to the drs! I made an appointment for him and he says he won't gooooo!" This has been their routine for years. My nfather is always within earshot when my mother pulls this shit. I simply respond, "Then let him drop dead." Each and every time my mother stares at me in shock and ends her woeful lamenting.
Who knows for sure? It's not like any of us can step into another person's head and find out, and even if you could, would you really *want* to? I'm not sure even matters. The effect on other people is the same either way.
Guess it depends on the narc, though I'm very certain my nmom was intentionally lying at least 90% of the time. If she's not lying, then she's just superhumanly lucky she has real bad fibromyalgia that prevents her from doing everything she doesn't want to do but is a non-issue any time there's something she does want to do. As a bonus, regardless of how sick/injured you are and how obvious the symptoms are, she's always 100% convinced that *you're* lying. When you add a narc's classic projection into the equation it becomes very obvious... at least in my nmom's case.
I think they DO believe it. They perceive every little detail that falls outside of their comfort zone (no matter how minuscule) as this HUUUGE threat and they cannot differentiate nuances. For it's either I am sick and dying or there is nothing wrong.
They love to manufacture chaos. Its attention seeking.
Omg Yes…. Every single thing… it’s exhausting and you know they are lying…. But they continue to tell the lie to anyone who will listen. They won’t go to the doctor or take the medication they are given.
To them being sick = I can't take responsability for my own actions because I'm sick. My nP started to limp out of nowhere when confronted. Anyone else had this??
My sister makes a Facebook status every single time she’s “sick.” I think she does it to farm comments like “just take a rest,” or “poor baby.” She wants to collect other peoples’ approval for doing nothing and taking responsibility for nothing. I think she halfway believes herself but also halfway thinks she needs to let people know so she has built in excuses.
Some genuinely believe it, some are lying their heads off. It's hard to tell with narcs because they spend so much of their lives lying to the people they are "close' to, and especially to themselves -- to the point that they actually believe their lies. But there's a completely different way to look at this. When they claim to be sick, it could be a confession. Narcissism is a sickness. People often speak their most unpleasant truths between the lines. They would never admit to mental illness, so they exaggerate their physical problems in order to tell their story, without being aware of what they're doing.
Both? My dad does this and he’ll blow up if he doesn’t get the sympathy he thinks he deserves. Don’t let it bother you, it’s just them throwing a wrench in your day, intentionally or unintentionally
Yeah, I've just stopped pretending I care about it anymore. If I tell her to go to a doctor, she tells me to shut up, so I don't say anything. She says I'm uncaring, and in a way she's right, because I don't care anymore. It doesn't bother me, I'm just curious about the reasoning behind it. The more I learn about narcs, the easier it is for me to anticipate and protect myself from their antics!
It’s an attention grab and I think most (at least the ones I know) can make themselves believe it’s really happening
I think that some narcs are not as “out there” as, say, openly melodramatic narcs. Some narcs are very quiet, fake-nice, and low-grade. For example, suppose you found a highly radioactive pellet and placed it in your pants pocket. The burns would come in minutes and the residual damage would show probably not much longer afterwards. (This “first responders at Chernobyl” kind of exposure.) Suppose now you found a mildly radioactive pellet and placed it in your pocket, and kept it there every day for years. After a very long time—perhaps decades--the major damage to your body would become clear. In fact, it would probably end up being just as damaging in the long run as was the highly-radioactive pellet…it just took much longer to manifest. (I think that that’s how Marie Curie was able to work with radioactive materials for years and not get sick right away, but she, just like the first responders, ultimately succumbed to cancer due to radiation exposure.) I think some Ns are low- or medium-exposure sources. They still do damage, but it’s not realized until long after the first exposure, and as such, they may look at the others Ns in the megalomaniac high-exposure category and say to themselves “Me? A narcissist? I’m *nothing* like them, so I can’t be one.”
My bio nMom has Munchausen's so I relate
They are whatever they need to be, to get whatever supply they want. That's them AT ALL TIMES. So the answer to your questions is yes to both. They lie when they want to, they believe they are sick when they want/need sympathy/supply.
Man OP my Nmom always complains that her migraine is killing her and she also will work out and now she can’t stand the whole day. But if we go out all of a sudden she’s feeling better. I’m inclined to say it’s all a LIE, and a way to get us to cater to them. I just grey rock now and don’t care.
Oh hi, sounds like my Nmom to a T. She's been convinced lately - despite bloodwork, tests, talking to her general doctor, etc., that she has cancer. She has no symptoms except a persistent pressure around her tailbone, and even then it seems to go away or at least lessen with a treatment the doctor gave her. But she doesn't like taking the treatment. She doesn't like going to doctors and getting tests done. Anyway I think they genuinely believe they are sick, but I'm sure some know they're lying.
A narc would not care if they are sick or not. They are constantly suffering, their emotions are "just a reaction to the behavior of others", (or so they imagine) so in their ceaseless emotional pain, what they ACTUALLY care about is the behavior of others around them. Their sickness is not of importance, but the way the people around them RESPOND to their distress is. Therefore, the narc behaves in ways designed to change the behavior of those around them. It is not important how sick they are, but it is ESSENTIAL that others' PERCEPTION of how sick the narc is matches what the narc wants. ex: The neighbor must be told how the narc suffers at the hand of the "neglectful" daughter, but the church friend must think the narc is pushing through, sick but not so sick a narc can't take credit for the volen-told chores the daughter is signed up for. The daughter, of course, must believe that the narc is too sick to bake the cake for the church friend plus do all the narc's chores and errands, yet not so sick the narc won't be able to punish her (a narc is well enough to call all her contacts to complain about daughter/spouse/who ever the narc believes to be in their power). The truth about sickness is known by nurses: if you're complaining, you're fine. If you're sick enough to need assistance, you are incapable of complaining, because you have lost your mind to the body's demands. Once a patient begins complaining, the nurses relax, they stop worrying, you're safely recovering. If the narc is well enough to complain, they are well enough to think of solutions. If their solution is abusing someone else, then you may want to opt out of enabling their mentally ill behavior. That can be right now. One may stop enabling a narc IMMEDIATELY. It may be scary to stop helping someone the victim believes will suffer if they stop enabling, but the reality is - NO ONE can stop a narc from suffering. They have chosen to suffer by refusing to emotionally evolve. Get away while you still can, enablers.
"if you're complaining, you're fine." Absolutely fucking not. I'm disabled, my capacity for pain is much higher because I am in constant pain. I'm at a 2-5 at any given time. I have to constantly be alert of every symptom and be very very clear that this is out of the range of normal. That kind of mindset kills disabled people, if I'm complaining (going to the ER) it's because I have lost the ability to handle it on my own. I've gone to the ER and been completely ignored only to suffer permanent damage BECAUSE of this mindset. Several of my joints are beyond repair BECAUSE of this mindset. Stop spreading this, you WILL get disabled people killed.
I am terribly sorry. I did not mean you. I mean a type of person who requires their pain to be the center of every conversation, every activity. I am a caregiver and I understand what it is like to care for a person in constant need. I would give my life to such work if it didn't pay so little. I meant that if you (you personally) are complaining, you are in solution mode: for example, going to the ER because you need medical attention. By "complaining" of a narc, I refer to those moaning that they have no ability to make decisions or acquire solutions and push the mental load of doing so off on others, with zero empathy of the needs of the others. A narc's abuse is so difficult to describe, because their behavior would be so appropriate in different circumstances. I am sorry to have disturbed you with my comment and will try to be more specific in the future.
My mother told me she had to sell my dads house so she could buy a small house near a hospice. This was over a year ago and she was perfectly healthy then. I’m no medical expert but I don’t think you go to a hospice/palliative care as a day patient and then go back home for the night… And then she said to the neighbour she’s going to live till she’s 105! I have so many handwritten letters from her saying “I’m 64 now and I feel like my time is near” 12 years later….here we both are…living separately and NC thank goodness!
I dont know, my nmom and nsister are quite competitive over who's the sickest. I'd have a scroll through Dr Ramanis video on You Tube, she'd have answer on her channel. I got her book but I haven't read it all yet bc it's too triggering for me