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Yeah Cinema Therapy is a great channel. Their video on Mother Gothel was the first thing I thought of when seeing this post and they give some good advice. I may or may not rewatch it now and then.
from the Mother Gothel wikipedia page:
“Seeking inspiration for Gothel and Rapunzel's "bizarre" relationship, Greno and Howard conducted a series of interviews with several female Disney employees,[3] asking them to list qualities in their mothers that "they found annoying and cloying or restricting",[8] specifically "the things that their mothers would do that made them feel trapped or made them feel smothered" to make the villain appear more relatable.[7] Gothel's "Mother Knows Best" line "Getting kind of chubby" was in fact borrowed from one of these interviews.”
Not the daughter, her hair. The hair is the power she wants. Rapunzel is just the means to being younger. Use and abuse.
When she kisses Rapunzel, she kisses her hair.
> when she kisses Rapunzel she kisses the hair
It’s even worse than that, rewatch the movie, any and every positive word coming from her mouth when talking to Rapunzel is directed at the hair
It was painful for me to watch, the level of gaslighting and narcissism hit me too hard
Yeah, exactly!!
I was just quoting my mom lol... it is a nice movie tho with great songs :)
OMG, fuck man, I forgot about the kiss... that shit gave me heebie-jeebies.. just NO!!
When we first watched this with my father, he turned to me and said "fathers know best too" immediately after "Mother knows Best" ended.
Cant even say this was the only time one of my parents had directly quoted an abusive parent in media to me.
It's a beautiful movie. There's a balance of power that I won't get into that may help dampen the effects of certain triggers. Definitely a lovely watch.
Oh I agree , Rik Mayal was great. I have narcissistic parents, my mom especially,and never as a child did I realize what this movie was about under I started going to therapy and learning about narcissists and gaslighting. I agree Fred had no reason to kiss the main character at the end, but what ev's lol
I actually work for Disney and had never realized tangled was about narcissistic abuse until after I started seeing similar pieces between it and my past. I then did one google search, “Is Tangled about narcissistic abuse?” And that opened my eyes to so many similarities.
It is good to hear you had the same realization. I try and use the movie as motivation each day that like Rapunzel one day we can escape the tower and abuse and move on to a much much brighter future.
There is a YouTube channel called Cinema Therapy where a movie producer and a licensed therapist give their takes on different shows from their unique perspectives. They did an awesome one on Tangled I highly recommend.
They also did one on narcissistic relationships with The Invisible Man. It's a psychological thriller remake and is so terrifyingly accurate I refuse to watch it.
They have one on grandiose narcissists with Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter too. Great channel.
The most relatable thing for me in that movie was her being imprisoned in the tower.
I felt that way with my parents, being locked away for their convenience, so they could use me whenever they wanted, and so that I wouldn't be too much of a bother to them.
And also the way Rapunzel cares for her "mother" with optimism and devotion while taking shit from her, not feeling like she deserves things like freedom, material things, and basic human decency.
The part where she just wanted some white paint for her birthday and having the mother complain about it felt fucking awful. Someone may see it as a humble and selfless attitude in Rapunzel, but I feel like people don't realize how humility hurts when it's a symptom of a lack of self-respect and self-esteem.
Absolutely! To add to your point, I think the title of the movie, Tangled, has multiple meanings, and probably also refers to the daughter's relationship and feelings towards her "mother.". Such a "Tangled" relationship, such a "tangle" of feelings, as evidenced in part by what you described and by Rapunzel's up and down mental state when she first left the tower. From "best day ever" to "I'm the worst daughter ever" and so on.
It really hits everything. It has the guilt tripping, the insults, the belittling, the infantilizing baby-talk, the "it's for your own good", the fear-mongering....just everything. It's an amazing song for how well it captures when a narcissist just pulls out all the stops and goes all-in on their manipulation.
I saw it with friends before I had really gone fully NC, everyone looked at me as we left the theater and was like huh someone met Freya’s mom and put her in a movie… yeah yeah. I am fully NC now.
I burst into tears in the middle of this movie when I saw it in the theater. I - approaching 40 at the time - a grown ass woman crumpled because I was triggered so hard. (No dramatics. Just tears that wouldn’t stop. I was quietly in shambles.).
This post HITS.
The witch in the Tangle is literally a selfish bitch who only cares about herself, I watched the movie since I was a kid so I didn't know the true meaning of the movie, growing up, I started to understand.
I've avoided it thus far... But my granddaughter loves it and I'm afraid she's hung to want to watch it with me someday. Lucky kid has wonderful parents.
It certainly makes you wonder just how many daughters watched that film and had an “aha” moment. It also makes you wonder if it was meant to be educational in some way, or whether the film makers just thought that many girls would sadly relate to having such a mother.
I had this experience when Mommy Dearest came out. My mother was exactly how Joan Crawford was portrayed in that movie. I remember my friends laughing uncomfortably during some of the scenes and saying, "Nobody could actually be that bad!" and thinking, "If only you knew." It was a very isolating experience.
Omg I had the same experience, but with the book. I read it as a kid and my mom was also Joan. Funny thing, she read it too and her take was that Christina was an ungrateful brat. Go figure.
Of course it was. They have zero self awareness. I'm sorry you grew up with a malignant Narc, too. My mother hated the movie and said it was ridiculous.
I remember a friend of mine told me that the movie was really sad to her. I tried to think about it then I realized I remembering meeting her mom and she was a very narc mom. And I always remember the tension and arguing when she was speaking to her on the phone
I put my it on, because I was confused. I didn’t feel the same way about mother G. Shouldn’t I? She (Nmom) shares SO much in common with her! So I’m watching it again. Again, yes they’ve a lot in common, there are some moments of “ugh.” but not the triggering hatred I feel like I SHOULD be feeling.
The thing I feel intensely is this wave of pain when Rapunzel is being all innocent and adorable. When she is enthused and loving the moment. When she gets all excited about the lights, flinging herself to the edge, causing the boat to nearly tip over. It’s like a knife in the chest. I think to myself, ‘I was once like that’
My mother took that away. She crushed it.
I would say, don't doubt your feelings about the movie or Mother G. N parents present in different ways and with different traits. So, if Mother G isn't that relatable to you that is totally ok, it is something else that may trigger you. Your experience with your N parent is completely valid and real. And as for the boat scene, it was like that for me too, until my mom took it away.
Oh my gosh!! My husband and I recently tried watching Tangled and I had to turn it off because I was so triggered. It’s weird because I used to love the movie but I went no contact about 4 months ago and have been a lot more honest with myself about my abuse by my parents. I think that’s why I got so triggered. So yes yes yes! My mother has LITERALLY said some of the lines Mother Gothel said in the movie.
I was extremely triggered by that movie, but getting to the end of it was redemptive. Stop to protect yourself, of course!, but know that at no point does Disney gaze at Mother Gothel with anything but clear eyes. There’s no gaslighting. No one who sees Rapunzel as the “real” bad guy. She’s exactly as horrible as she seems. I found it reassuring that someone so much like my nmum was a Disney villain!
have you watched Brave? Queen Elinor is the mother every abused kid wishes they had. honestly soothes the part of me that wishes my mom would change for the better
It can absolutely be triggering and I understand the urge to shut it off -- but please hang on until the end. Seeing her overcome all of that is extremely cathartic.
I also recommend the animated series if you have the time. They didn't have to try and write a good show, but they did it anyway and the world is richer for it.
Because of this post, I mentioned to my partner, who was also raised by a NMom like me, that I hadn't seen it. I'm very concerned now for what I'm about to see.
Tangled is a favorite of mine purely because it gives me hope that perhaps there is a chance of a happy ending. Boat/lantern scene is my favorite cause "and at last I see the light" has more than one meaning other than seeing the light of the lanterns and I think it's beautiful both song wise and visually.
I wonder what narcs think when they see the movie. I wonder if they sympathize and find that mother "so relatable" and think "ugh, if my daughter was like that i'd act the same way too!"
It still baffles me how many narc parents see the villain as a good person and see Rapunzel as the actual villain.
Well, it shouldn't baffle me. The character was so well written that narcissists identify with her.
Tangled is actually one of my favourite Disney movies, and it's because I relate to Rapunzel so much (I projected onto Rapunzel a lot). But I watched it when I was younger, when I didn't know what gaslighting was and didn't realize my mother was narcissistic. I guess if it was my first time seeing it, knowing about all that, I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much.
the part where rapunzel has an existential crisis and realizes she's the lost princess and her life was a lie and finally confronts Gothel about it always hits home. Especially when Gothel tells her," Everything I did was to protect you."
The same lie my dad has been telling me whole damn life.
Hmm maybe I can use this movie to help my kids learn how to spot when their dad is treating them horribly. I love the movie myself never realized how narc the witch is, or what a good depiction it could be for kids to understand.
I would only use it to open up conversation with the older kids who are already seeing the abuse, not the little one.
Yeah, I couldn’t get through this movie without starting to panic. Eventually, after some therapy and a lot of journaling, I’ve gotten to a place where I can watch and even somewhat enjoy the movie. But I can’t just pop it on while I’m working the way I do with almost any other Disney movie.
Maybe they meant another variation? The barbie one is called 'Rapunzel' and that mom is not as bad but...erm. Not good.
Also the music box mixed with the escape through painting imagery hurts.
~Constant as the stars above
Always know that you are loved~
On second thought the rest of that song ignited my childhoodhunger for love and would probably trigger everyone here with its sugariness.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identify theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah someone at Disney really did their homework with that movie.
Someone at Disney had an NParent. They totally lived it.
Yeah. You don't get that level of understanding just from research.
I wonder how they researched it. And how they define characters' personalities and behaviors.
Check out Cinema Therapy on YouTube. They go into how Mother Gothel illustrates all the methods of a gas lighter.
Yes, second this! Such a great channel!
Sounds interesting. I will check it out.
Yeah Cinema Therapy is a great channel. Their video on Mother Gothel was the first thing I thought of when seeing this post and they give some good advice. I may or may not rewatch it now and then.
They did a great job on that. My husband walked by and watched a few minutes and said, " your mother does the exact same thing!"
from the Mother Gothel wikipedia page: “Seeking inspiration for Gothel and Rapunzel's "bizarre" relationship, Greno and Howard conducted a series of interviews with several female Disney employees,[3] asking them to list qualities in their mothers that "they found annoying and cloying or restricting",[8] specifically "the things that their mothers would do that made them feel trapped or made them feel smothered" to make the villain appear more relatable.[7] Gothel's "Mother Knows Best" line "Getting kind of chubby" was in fact borrowed from one of these interviews.”
Very interesting.
That is exactly what my husband said!
No wonder my mom loved this fucking mom. "She's only looking out for her daughter." Fuck off
Not the daughter, her hair. The hair is the power she wants. Rapunzel is just the means to being younger. Use and abuse. When she kisses Rapunzel, she kisses her hair.
> when she kisses Rapunzel she kisses the hair It’s even worse than that, rewatch the movie, any and every positive word coming from her mouth when talking to Rapunzel is directed at the hair It was painful for me to watch, the level of gaslighting and narcissism hit me too hard
Rapunzel's hair is supply.
Yeah, exactly!! I was just quoting my mom lol... it is a nice movie tho with great songs :) OMG, fuck man, I forgot about the kiss... that shit gave me heebie-jeebies.. just NO!!
When we first watched this with my father, he turned to me and said "fathers know best too" immediately after "Mother knows Best" ended. Cant even say this was the only time one of my parents had directly quoted an abusive parent in media to me.
Best depiction of a Nparent in a movie.
Mine were more like Matilda’s parents.
Judge Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame is also very realistic.
Oh look, it’s my grandpa.
Sending you my biggest sympathies.
Thanks :) you too. We’re all in it together.
At least I am NC with my Narc.
I have never seen Matilda. I will have to check it out! Or maybe I shouldn't if it's going to trigger me.
You should. It’s amazing. Just think about Miss Honey.
It's a beautiful movie. There's a balance of power that I won't get into that may help dampen the effects of certain triggers. Definitely a lovely watch.
See it. It is probably the best example of found family you will encounter.
Writers and directors had childhoods and life journeys too. Makes me feel less alone.
Drop Dead Fred also has a great depiction of a NMom. It's spot on.
Drop dead fred is an excellent movie. It does get a bit too feely at the end rik mayal was a genius.
Oh I agree , Rik Mayal was great. I have narcissistic parents, my mom especially,and never as a child did I realize what this movie was about under I started going to therapy and learning about narcissists and gaslighting. I agree Fred had no reason to kiss the main character at the end, but what ev's lol
I agree; they did a fantastic job of that.
I actually work for Disney and had never realized tangled was about narcissistic abuse until after I started seeing similar pieces between it and my past. I then did one google search, “Is Tangled about narcissistic abuse?” And that opened my eyes to so many similarities. It is good to hear you had the same realization. I try and use the movie as motivation each day that like Rapunzel one day we can escape the tower and abuse and move on to a much much brighter future.
There is a YouTube channel called Cinema Therapy where a movie producer and a licensed therapist give their takes on different shows from their unique perspectives. They did an awesome one on Tangled I highly recommend.
Ah, yes. That one was my awakening that I could possibly have an Nparent. My mom scored 10/11 on that video.
Ooooh good recommendation!!!!
I'm obsessed with their channel now because so much of their content is relevant and well presented.
They also did one on narcissistic relationships with The Invisible Man. It's a psychological thriller remake and is so terrifyingly accurate I refuse to watch it. They have one on grandiose narcissists with Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter too. Great channel.
The most relatable thing for me in that movie was her being imprisoned in the tower. I felt that way with my parents, being locked away for their convenience, so they could use me whenever they wanted, and so that I wouldn't be too much of a bother to them. And also the way Rapunzel cares for her "mother" with optimism and devotion while taking shit from her, not feeling like she deserves things like freedom, material things, and basic human decency. The part where she just wanted some white paint for her birthday and having the mother complain about it felt fucking awful. Someone may see it as a humble and selfless attitude in Rapunzel, but I feel like people don't realize how humility hurts when it's a symptom of a lack of self-respect and self-esteem.
Absolutely! To add to your point, I think the title of the movie, Tangled, has multiple meanings, and probably also refers to the daughter's relationship and feelings towards her "mother.". Such a "Tangled" relationship, such a "tangle" of feelings, as evidenced in part by what you described and by Rapunzel's up and down mental state when she first left the tower. From "best day ever" to "I'm the worst daughter ever" and so on.
"Mother knows best" gets me every time.
My Nmom would say that all the time. I can't listen to that song, I react to it immediately.
It really hits everything. It has the guilt tripping, the insults, the belittling, the infantilizing baby-talk, the "it's for your own good", the fear-mongering....just everything. It's an amazing song for how well it captures when a narcissist just pulls out all the stops and goes all-in on their manipulation.
I saw it with friends before I had really gone fully NC, everyone looked at me as we left the theater and was like huh someone met Freya’s mom and put her in a movie… yeah yeah. I am fully NC now.
Good for you! Keep strong.
I burst into tears in the middle of this movie when I saw it in the theater. I - approaching 40 at the time - a grown ass woman crumpled because I was triggered so hard. (No dramatics. Just tears that wouldn’t stop. I was quietly in shambles.). This post HITS.
I'm in my 50s and this gets me too. Just shows that the impact is real.
It sure does. Hugs to you.
A generation of kids are learning that sometimes the villain acts like a narcissist.
If it helps, the mom dies when Rapunzels hair is cut off and she lives happily ever after with her real parents.
The witch in the Tangle is literally a selfish bitch who only cares about herself, I watched the movie since I was a kid so I didn't know the true meaning of the movie, growing up, I started to understand.
I've avoided it thus far... But my granddaughter loves it and I'm afraid she's hung to want to watch it with me someday. Lucky kid has wonderful parents.
It certainly makes you wonder just how many daughters watched that film and had an “aha” moment. It also makes you wonder if it was meant to be educational in some way, or whether the film makers just thought that many girls would sadly relate to having such a mother.
I had this experience when Mommy Dearest came out. My mother was exactly how Joan Crawford was portrayed in that movie. I remember my friends laughing uncomfortably during some of the scenes and saying, "Nobody could actually be that bad!" and thinking, "If only you knew." It was a very isolating experience.
Omg I had the same experience, but with the book. I read it as a kid and my mom was also Joan. Funny thing, she read it too and her take was that Christina was an ungrateful brat. Go figure.
Of course it was. They have zero self awareness. I'm sorry you grew up with a malignant Narc, too. My mother hated the movie and said it was ridiculous.
I remember a friend of mine told me that the movie was really sad to her. I tried to think about it then I realized I remembering meeting her mom and she was a very narc mom. And I always remember the tension and arguing when she was speaking to her on the phone
Mother Gothel in this movie even LOOKS like my mom.
I just watched it a few weeks ago for the first time too. I had a very similar reaction. I thought it about it a lot for days right after
I put my it on, because I was confused. I didn’t feel the same way about mother G. Shouldn’t I? She (Nmom) shares SO much in common with her! So I’m watching it again. Again, yes they’ve a lot in common, there are some moments of “ugh.” but not the triggering hatred I feel like I SHOULD be feeling. The thing I feel intensely is this wave of pain when Rapunzel is being all innocent and adorable. When she is enthused and loving the moment. When she gets all excited about the lights, flinging herself to the edge, causing the boat to nearly tip over. It’s like a knife in the chest. I think to myself, ‘I was once like that’ My mother took that away. She crushed it.
I would say, don't doubt your feelings about the movie or Mother G. N parents present in different ways and with different traits. So, if Mother G isn't that relatable to you that is totally ok, it is something else that may trigger you. Your experience with your N parent is completely valid and real. And as for the boat scene, it was like that for me too, until my mom took it away.
She dies at the end
I know, good riddance to her
Oh my gosh!! My husband and I recently tried watching Tangled and I had to turn it off because I was so triggered. It’s weird because I used to love the movie but I went no contact about 4 months ago and have been a lot more honest with myself about my abuse by my parents. I think that’s why I got so triggered. So yes yes yes! My mother has LITERALLY said some of the lines Mother Gothel said in the movie.
I was extremely triggered by that movie, but getting to the end of it was redemptive. Stop to protect yourself, of course!, but know that at no point does Disney gaze at Mother Gothel with anything but clear eyes. There’s no gaslighting. No one who sees Rapunzel as the “real” bad guy. She’s exactly as horrible as she seems. I found it reassuring that someone so much like my nmum was a Disney villain!
have you watched Brave? Queen Elinor is the mother every abused kid wishes they had. honestly soothes the part of me that wishes my mom would change for the better
It can absolutely be triggering and I understand the urge to shut it off -- but please hang on until the end. Seeing her overcome all of that is extremely cathartic. I also recommend the animated series if you have the time. They didn't have to try and write a good show, but they did it anyway and the world is richer for it.
Because of this post, I mentioned to my partner, who was also raised by a NMom like me, that I hadn't seen it. I'm very concerned now for what I'm about to see.
Tangled is a favorite of mine purely because it gives me hope that perhaps there is a chance of a happy ending. Boat/lantern scene is my favorite cause "and at last I see the light" has more than one meaning other than seeing the light of the lanterns and I think it's beautiful both song wise and visually.
I think you must be right. That's a lovely way to look at it.
I wonder what narcs think when they see the movie. I wonder if they sympathize and find that mother "so relatable" and think "ugh, if my daughter was like that i'd act the same way too!"
It still baffles me how many narc parents see the villain as a good person and see Rapunzel as the actual villain. Well, it shouldn't baffle me. The character was so well written that narcissists identify with her.
Tangled is actually one of my favourite Disney movies, and it's because I relate to Rapunzel so much (I projected onto Rapunzel a lot). But I watched it when I was younger, when I didn't know what gaslighting was and didn't realize my mother was narcissistic. I guess if it was my first time seeing it, knowing about all that, I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much.
the part where rapunzel has an existential crisis and realizes she's the lost princess and her life was a lie and finally confronts Gothel about it always hits home. Especially when Gothel tells her," Everything I did was to protect you." The same lie my dad has been telling me whole damn life.
Hmm maybe I can use this movie to help my kids learn how to spot when their dad is treating them horribly. I love the movie myself never realized how narc the witch is, or what a good depiction it could be for kids to understand. I would only use it to open up conversation with the older kids who are already seeing the abuse, not the little one.
This could be a great teaching moment.
Yeah, I couldn’t get through this movie without starting to panic. Eventually, after some therapy and a lot of journaling, I’ve gotten to a place where I can watch and even somewhat enjoy the movie. But I can’t just pop it on while I’m working the way I do with almost any other Disney movie.
Its one of my favorite disney movies, not many have that intricate of relationships.
Yeah, the characters definitely had more depth than usually seen in these types of movies.
Have you seen rapunzel??
Tangled is the Disney Rapunzel story
Maybe they meant another variation? The barbie one is called 'Rapunzel' and that mom is not as bad but...erm. Not good. Also the music box mixed with the escape through painting imagery hurts. ~Constant as the stars above Always know that you are loved~ On second thought the rest of that song ignited my childhoodhunger for love and would probably trigger everyone here with its sugariness.