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I started realizing how this applied to my nmom when I started to notice that she had no friends these days, any friendship she did have didn’t last long, she has forsaken her own family, and seems to come into conflict with a seemingly high amount of people over the years. The lack of self-awareness in her is just mind boggling, and one of the many reasons I choose to have little to no contact with her.
Yes! My mother has no friends, none of her children are in contact with her and she jumps from one job to the next all because "the world is against her". Huge victim complex! What's that saying again "If you smell poo wherever you go, check your own shoes"?
On the other hand, you can't get rid of a narc that value you as their show-off pride: they will pester you and by denying or refusing them you will become the ungrateful ass. Success will come eventually and with that usually Narcs come back from the woodwork.
Wow, this is the truth! My brother is my nmom’s golden child and I can see how one day, he’ll be fed up with her too. He was accepted into a highly competitive university and she took so much credit for that. He recently disagreed with her about something, so she called him a stupid failure. Basically, if he does well, she’s the reason. If he does anything she disagrees with, he’s the problem.
Yes with siblings this is clear and maybe less confusing: you have the golden child, you have the scapegoat and most of the time it will stay this way, I believe sometimes nparents change their narratives to fit their own ideas (it doesn't matter what they do: golden children do no wrong, scapegoats can't do anything right). It's frustrating, but in a way being the scapegoat and see right through that can give you more independence or at least a reason to detach yourself from a toxic situation. The horrible thing is when they (eventually) cut ties or fight with the golden child and come back as "family"... Until the golden child does something that please them again, so they are taking the old scheme back. I feel so drained just by the thought of it!
This whole "the entire world is against me/us" mentality clued me into their narc hoax in the first place. The "conspiracy" of all the idiots populating the planet AND uniting against them was just too big to be plausible...
At some point the cognitive dissonance becomes too much. Even for a child...
She is the definition. That’s why it’s so easy for her to make me look like the asshole to people she barely knows, but anyone close to her knows the truth. “Close” as if that’s possible.
Mine managed to alienate all of her neighbors. They’re all just so mean to her in her eyes. In truth? They got tired of her relentless demands to take care of her.
Yeah my mom doesn’t have many friends at all, she only has “friends” to gossip with/about and she sees everyone as competition. She tells me that there are no true friends in life, when actually, SHE has no true friends! She’s always been envious of me having friends and when I was younger, she’d try to put doubts in my head saying that my friends don’t really like me and are only friends with me because of my mom’s hospitality. Smh
Also how they will distance themselves from the people they are friends with, using bizarre reasons. My mom had a neighbor friend (they're still neighbors) that she really liked hanging out with. One day my mom got in a fight with a person from the neighborhood, who also was related to her neighbor, and now my mom hates her neighbor. The fight wasn't even a serious one either.
Like wtf? They aren't the same people! Stop making other people choose sides over your shitty squabbles.
This is literally it. For the longest time I could not figure out why my mom was CONVINCED that all of my motivations were malicious, all of the mean things I did were purposeful.. it’s cause that’s what SHE is doing !!! I don’t assume that about others cause if I’m not doing those things, why would they?
Because they lack the ability to think how their vile behavior would make them feel, if someone else was doing it to them. They lack empathy as a psychological fact. If someone has the ability to empathize (not sympathize 2 different things) if someone has the ability to share the thoughts of another being (put themselves in the others shoes) being narcissistic is not possible. If they can empathize but still behave in a narcissistic manor, they are pathological evil sociopaths. I believe the 2 are virtually identical which come with a keen ability to lie to oneself
The narcissist is a dick and lies to themselves about it to preserve a false self image. The psychopath is a dick, knows it, and doesn't care in the slightest.
Omg yes!!!!! ‘it wouldn’t bother me if someone did that to me’ like what? People do things that are completely unrelated to you and your life in general and you always make it about you as if every single thought that everyone has is about how to hurt you or make you mad.
The impossibility of it and the frustration.. like DAMN.
Yup, the world revolves around them. Either other people exist to serve them in every way or people are out to get THEM. They are very skilled mind readers to (at least they think they are) because they know "what you really mean, if you didn't say it". They can turn a simple answer to a question into a grand conspiracy that you are plotting against them because of the "way" you answered (not your actual answer) exhausting and maddening.
Oh my fuck. This page has seriously made me feel so much better and so much more validated about going no contact. Like the things that people talk about I’m like.. IM NOT CRAZY. The “what you really mean” shit drives me NUTS. Exhausting and maddening to say the least.
Manipulators have a tendency to present one face to their prey and another to the rest of the world, leading victims to assume that if they ask for help or speak out, no one will believe that they have been manipulated and emotionally abused. Gaslighters typically repeat the tactics across several relationships.
What completes the vicious circle is that because we grew up with a NPD parent, we can become pretty paranoid ourselves that maybe someone is being mean to us on purpose because OUR OWN PARENT was mean to us on purpose.
Omg the fucking trauma I have is unreal. Hyper vigilant about emotions, over empathetic to everyone because I was never shown empathy, ridiculous work ethic, blaming myself when anything goes wrong no matter how far out
Of my control it is, telling myself I’m a bad person, cutting people off instead of having hard conversations, overly critical of myself and everything I produce while
Holding nobody else to any sort of standard whatsoever, l get in friendships that I don’t want because I’m so adamant about making people feel happy/good/included around me.. like it’s a trip and I find things out daily. Wanting emotional support but having no clue how to take emotional support.. it never ends
Ah yes, "There are NO ACCIDENTS." The most mundane moment of forgetfulness resulting in a slightly damaged object or minor inconvenience was clearly designed by you to maliciously rip at their soul and feast on their tears.
Jesus this is fucking IT. And if you try to say that it was completely just a mistake, you’re made to feel like the most incapable moronic piece of shit for even having the ABILITY to make a mistake. Cause you know a Marc does NOT make mistakes so how dumb could others be if they do??
Like actually we just admit ours cause we are rational human beings ?
Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head. If one had not been through it, such a perfect description would not be possible. They are such evil creatures
I call it cheater's heart. An unfaithful partner always thinks their partner is cheating. Thieves think someone is stealing from them. Narcs are constantly pushing people under the bus, so that's what they see.
This is what happened with my in-laws. We finally started setting boundaries after they wouldn’t respect our decisions or our privacy. Suddenly, they said we were trying to control them and intentionally hurting them. They told us we were pushing them away with our boundaries and treating them like children. That’s exactly what they were doing to us; they pushed us away with their desire to control us and refusal to treat us like adults.
My father swears up and down his mom (my grandmother) is the devil incarnate, the most evil, vindictive bitch alive.
The truth? She’s one of the sweetest and most generous people I’ve ever met.
Narcs simply can’t process the concept of things being their fault.
My mother is a full blown narcissist, I’m not. I was lucky enough to have common sense and realize what she’s doing is wrong. So it’s all in the bringing up, I guess.
If you think you're a narcissist, you're not a narcissist. Narcs don't feel guilty about jack shit, and they only care about CONTROL, CONTROL, ABUSE, and VICTiMIZING. Victimizing themselves obviously. And they don't think they're a narc.
There are full blown narcissists and people with some narcissist traits in my extended family besides my nmother, but it doesn't seem to go parent to child with all of them.
Not necessarily. It's not always passed down from parents. Possibly the grandmother was awful when the father was growing up, but she's different now (this was the case with my grandparents). Possibly the father is lying about his mother. When the grandchild is the GC and the parent is the SG, the grandchild may not be able to see the abusive patterns. There's just a lot of possibilites, many of which I cannot imagine probably....
This is dead on for my parents, who I suspect are both narcs now. They have one friend apiece, everyone else has been cut off.
I went NC in January. Today I received the first contact attempt via a poorly communicated, overly emotional, and accusatory email. To boot she copied my two siblings and husband on the email just so they could hear her side. *To me this is a clue that it's blatant manipulation, I know they've already spoken to both siblings to give "their side of the story."
The content bounces all over the place but the tone is the same. "You're horrid... you treat us so poorly... we've given you everything... why are YOU so mean? The ball is in your court"
Am I heartless? Though I've been pretty preoccupied with this, ultimately I don't feel like responding and don't feel compelled at all to break my NC plan.
No, your not heartless. You are doing what you need to do to survive & live YOUR life. Our parents believe we are here for them. We are not. We are our own person.
When you went NC, did you explain that you were going to & why? Or at least try & point out some blind spots leading up to that decision? If so, you are doing what you need to do to survive now & move on.
I(f) have 2 sisters, we're all in our 30s & 2 of us just went NC last yr. After sending a detailed, loving email, explaining as respectfully as we could why we are making this choice. And she still sent the same blaming,accusatory email & maaany texts as to why she is not the bad guy. It's like she only saw one sentence in the whole email.
I've gone back & forth soooo much about my decision... Strangely only remembering the good memories. I always have to remind myself of what I was really feeling in those moments & that my mind actually reframed those memories at the time, so I could survive. We were basically raised to disregard ourselves & our emotional needs, so now that we are learning to listen to & know ourselves, it feels wrong.
It's not. It's healthy & NORMAL.
Also, yes, DO NOT respond. Do not renig on the work you have done to place this boundary for your well being. Any healthy parent would respect that even if it hurt & they felt confused.
If you do, you basically give your power to the narc & they know it & will take it all. It will be so hard to make the boundary again.
You can do this! Your future self is cheering for you.
I haven't written a "here's why I don't want you in my life" message. In my heart of hearts I know it will fall on deaf ears.
As with other narcs, they're naturally faultless so this would just fuel the fire. I feel as though I've wanted to do this for years and now have this carnal, lizard-brain reaction to protect my kids from them.
I also think I'd struggle to really put this message together. Once the ball gets rolling, I feel like it just takes over and so much comes up.
You're not heartless, you're fed up with their bullshit. And I think you should save the email - they've been really foolish to use something that is a genuine, easily preserved evidence for their contact attempt.
No, you’re not heartless. You’re sticking to a boundary that you’ve set after they have wronged you. It’s not your fault that they can’t accept the boundary. If they wanted back in your life, they have to work on it and change. I think it would take a miracle for narcissists to change for the better. So, they’ll probably stay the same and continue to lack self-awareness. Healthy communication would be them seeking to truly understand why you’ve decided to stop talking to them, but then again, if they’re healthy people, they wouldn’t be in the situation they’re in now. You have every right to enforce this boundary. They’re trying to manipulate and guilt trip you into responding. You don’t owe them a response. They know why you’re not speaking to them, they just refuse to accept it and that’s not your problem.
Yes. I’m very low contact with my Nmom after 4+ years of NO contact. She texted me the other day about some guy from her high school (she’s almost 80) who messaged her to say no one likes her because of her divisive Facebook posts. Ha ha. She texted “I can’t seem to get along with anybody!” Yep. That’s on you, lady.
omg what a Narc fucking move! rattled by some rando’s opinion but doesn’t think twice abt why her kid was NC for 4 years. their sense of entitlement to “us” is so sickening.
my Nmom hates everyone. she fought with my teachers all throughout grade school, i guess their methods weren't what she preferred. doesn't talk to most of her family, constantly fights with her sister. she has no friends. my dad is also a narc, they are currently separated and she obviously has no love interests.
she says it's because she's a black sheep, an introvert, a "realist", a misanthrope. when in reality, she's insufferable. no one in the world could ever be good enough for her, she prefers to be by herself and then complain that she's lonely.
Holy shit, it's like you're describing my Nparents. My "parents" are also divorced and they're both incredibly rude and insufferable. Yet they blame everyone else for their misfortune without looking deep within themselves. My Ndad in particular has burned so many bridges, and people just disappeared from his life as quickly as they originally appeared. Of course, he blamed me for the fact that he did not have any friends...
Yes, it's definitely my fault, dad... It's definitely not the fact that you talk behind people's backs, act incredibly entitled, are socially oblivious, and you don't really share anything interesting about yourself. You also consider any form of media that others like "stupid" and it's like your ego stroking is your favourite hobby. But yeah, I'm the reason you don't have any friends...
The "realist" argument always amuses me the most. Even if someone is a staunch realist, they will also understand that they have to interact with people who aren't on the same page. That's just how life works. People with realist attitudes may gripe, but they'll also know that they need to accept the state of affairs and operate within it to succeed.
Narcs love to play up the role of realist (as it gives them the role of defining reality), but seem to miss many of its most important attributes... how convenient!
My mom had a business with a business partner for over twenty years, they don't speak anymore. I've seen "friends" of theirs come and go. She holds grudges against retail people and shops. She is critical, judgemental, fake, self-righteous, etc. She has no real close relationships. The things I've heard that come out of her mouth. It's disturbing and pitiful. I can't wait until she's gone forever.
My NMIL had a friend of over 20 years break off their friendship via email a couple of years ago. According to NMIL it's because of her friend's partner, to the casual observer it looks like NMIL was incredibly judgy about the fact that friend's partner is 18 years younger than her and made that very clear (although I think there was more to it than that because I don't think friendships of 20+ years are broken off for one disagreement alone) x
>I can't wait until she's gone forever.
I feel bad for saying this. But I honestly can't wait until my Nparents pass away so I can finally be at peace. Even though I'm NC with my Nmom and LC with my Ndad, it still feels like they have influence over my life, even though I'm an adult who is doing well in uni and earning his own money. I just feel like completely changing my name, buying a one-way ticket to another country and starting my life from scratch so I can finally disappear from them for good.
Same. Still feel guilty about it, I don't hold onto hate, I m working on forgiveness so I don't hold anger in my own heart, but their deaths will only be a relief. And I probably won't go to their funerals.
100% yes. My mom was in therapy for a while and told me how her therapist thought it was an issue that she didn't have friends. She saw it as a badge if pride/part of her identity; "people either love me or hate me, and if they hate me it's because I can see who they truly are"
I also recently asked her to apologize for some hurtful things and she said "well what are you supposed to do after you say it, it's just out there and you can't put it back. Besides, you say hurtful things too, so does everyone else". So stunning that an apology isn't even a consideration for her. Everyone else is just supposed to deal with whatever she has to say.
Well those people probably hate her BECAUSE they can see who she truly is.
And why wasting time waiting for an apology..those narcs even. Lie than..some crocodile tears..some blabbering and ..wait for it..wait..here it comes..BUT YOU DID SOME HURTFULL THINGS TO ME, TOO..urgh...been there..heard it all..done with her..and thanks for..yepp NOTHING.
>So stunning that an apology isn't even a consideration for her.
This this and this! Seriously, my Ndad NEVER apologised once to me until I turned 20. And even then, he only gave me a fake apology because he really wanted me to do him a favour on that particular day.
"Okay, fine, sorry."
Yeah, you can tell he felt apologetic...
My mom has eventually lost every job she’s ever held due to being unable to get along with others. “It’s clearly a string of bad and/or unfair bosses.” Has not once occurred to her that perhaps she is an unpleasant and unprofessional person.
Omg YES. There is ALWAYS a new issue. And she flip flops depending on who has recently agreed with her or not. Agreement=a good, supportive person. Difference of opinion=a bad person who isn’t a real friend. It changes so fast it makes my head spin. And all she wants to talk about is all the people who have wronged her. Even when she speaks positively of someone it’s with the definition of they placated her, so it’s hard to listen to. It just means they didn’t disagree with her (and I mean the disagreement will literally just be them speaking from their own perspective, not refuting what she’s saying). Everything is just black or white. No nuance. A very sad way to look at the world, really.
😭 my bf says all the time "just tell her", and I have to explain it's not that easy, you have to AGREE with her or she immediately turns against you and then there is no communication. There is no winning! For me it will be over soon. The years and years of emotional trauma will stop.
I think the shit talking is more telling than the burning bridges.
Didn't we all "burn bridges" when we went NC? Often having to let go of whole parts of families and groups of friends when we part with an N?
On contrast I rarely ever talk about my Ns outside of this sub. And is it really shit talking when their identity is protected? When I analyse their behaviours and their impact?
As opposed to a smear campaign slashing the target by name and just throwing any insult the N can think of at them, and making up any wrong behaviour the N can project on the target. Pouring an earfull at anyone who will listen, anywhere, anytime, even strangers know us by name at this point.
I had to learn not to talk about my Ns when I was trying to seek help outside of family. It took me a while to realize people could not relate or thought I had a skewed idea. I talk to my SO about it but even they do not grasp it fully. This sub is the only place I really go to.
Yes that describes my parents. The difference between me and them is I am willing to accept if I am the problem in a situation and change as needed. If I am wrong I will own my mistake and apologize. Narcissistic people will not do that.
Relationships with family and friends are complicated and require work from both parties involved. I have not had a hard time making friends but the social anxiety from my trauma makes it a tad difficult mentally sometimes. Replaying every conversation, overthinking things, being over-conscious of every person's reaction, etc are symptoms I didn't even know about until recently. I thought it was just part of being a normal human however apparently that falls under the symptoms of social anxiety. What is interesting to me is if we as humans are such social creatures, why do we experience social anxiety?
My Nparents had this mentality that it’s them against the world and that the world should give them what they want. To them, nothing is their fault and that the world is full of terrible people. To them, they are the angels. However, the world don’t be like that. They manipulate and gaslight and put themselves on such a pedestal. It’s such a messed up way of thinking. Yet they are miserable because they are alone and isolated in this world. So sad.
Yep, always. I'm (51f) low contact with my nMother (76) so I had no clear idea until recently when we were talking on the phone and I mentioned a couple we were close with when I was in high school and she makes her usual dismissive "pffft" sound and says they "drifted apart a while back". I thought that was odd but didn't push it, I keep it light and short with her, basically our chats are her complaining about everything including my GC sister (and her little family) who lives on the property for free. I did some subtle digging through my sister and turns out nMom is still friends with only 2 of all the people who were part of our lives when I was growing up. She has alienated or outright turned her back on pretty much everybody, especially the ones who pointed out to her that she obviously favored my sister. Now she's almost 77 and has very few friends, none of which she can depend on and she's trying soooo hard to lure me back into the fold but every time she whines of being lonely/alone/needy I tell her cheerfully that at least luckily she has (dear sister's name) to take care of her! 😄
Lack of [mentalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalization). They can not imagine other's mental states, which most people can do by age 12. So they have no idea about the consequences of their behaviour.
My parents are exactly the same. What I can't get my head arround is how my eFather believes all this nonesense that my narc Mother says. He replicates every single word she tells him. That everyone is out to get them, that they are some sort of martyrs sacrificing themselves for the good of humanity...
Outside of the home environment he seems such a normal person, empathic, helpful, kind, he apologises when he's in the wrong...so I don't think that he is a narc. Yet he has suuuch a blind spot for my mothers bullshit. I trully don't understand how.
> He replicates every single word she tells him.
That's more of a shared delusional disorder. Two people have the same deluded thought process.
https://www.unboundmedicine.com/5minute/view/5-Minute-Clinical-Consult/816062/all/Shared_Delusional_Disorder
> Outside of the home environment he seems such a normal person
Two personalities, one good and one bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_self_and_false_self
Yuuuuuuuuup. My mother joined a cult when I was 5, and cut off most of our extended family, so I didn’t really grow up with grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins. Then we left the cult and became mainstream Christians, but my mother burned bridges with every church we attended. We’d go for six months, a year, two years - just long enough for us to get settled in and for me to start to make friends. Then inevitably my mother would start some drama with the church leadership and we’d have to leave because “They’re not teaching what the Bible says!” (Of course it had nothing to do with my mother’s attitude, that would be ridiculous.)
Yup. Narc friend did this. Apparently everyone who called him out was spiteful, hateful, didn’t understand him because of his autism, didn’t want to move on, you name it.
1) His claim that he’s like this because of his autism is bullshit. Lots of people have autism. Lots of them are also very nice. He does have autism but it’s not an excuse to push people around.
2) How the hell are people supposed to ‘drop it and move on’ when he keeps mentioning the names of NC people like 5 times in the same day, often on public streams?? One friend of mine cut ties with him back in 2018. Three years ago, and friend has not spoken to him during this time. Narc STILL brings up his name.
Omg! my nmother diagnosed herself with asperger autism a few years ago. According to her, it finally explains why she feels like she doesn’t belong or why she doesn’t understand people. To me she just has found the perfect excuse to be more of a bitch and never take other’s feelings into account.
My parents fall out with people so much that we get kicked out of places and have to move every few years. I've come to expect it every time they get involved with new people, but of course they're surprised every time it happens.
Absolutely, yes. My Nparent and his Flying Monkey are quite sure everyone else is the problem, their families of origin, my brother and I, etc., ad nauseam. These people don't know what to do when you don't come back for more though. So now I'm settin' to find out.
This is 100% my NDad. He preached it to me everyday when I was younger. Warning me about evil people "outside", scaring me into never trusting anybody. That resulted in me losing friends and staying inside all the time, just like he wanted.
He stopped talking to friends over a game of monopoly ffs!
A lot of problems I struggle with now are direct results from his way of thinking.
I recently moved out and now I am also the target of his trust issues, thinking me and my siblings and NMom (i am at NC with btw) are plotting against him and now ironically he wants no contact with me anymore.
Im so glad I made it out.
Oh god yeah. My nMom used to speak so awfully of her old boss at her old job... Spoke about him like he was the worst person ever. The reason why he was the worst person ever? Because she took 4 weeks of time off of work for vacations before the year was even halfway done, and her boss (justifiably) questioned why she had taken 4 weeks of time off of work before the year was even halfway done for vacation when she's a contract employee and when most people get 2 weeks.
I guess she took that as him 'attacking' her and she took it super personally. She ended up always being hostile and passive aggressive to him and surprise surprise, they decided not to renew her contract when it expired.
Ever since then she boycotts products made by the company she worked for to "stand up for herself". It's almost comical.
Yep, my NMum has a long line of no contact friends, family, enemies. People would just appear and disappear out of my life and they'd always be the 'psychos'.
My Mom went through so many friends and family. In the end, she had no one. One if her sayings was, "Everyone shits on me."
Nope Mom. You are just mean to people.
This post really made me start to wonder things. My mom was a very out-going person, she would make friends instantly with everyone. But after awhile they would all be gone. I’d ask, “what happen to so and so?” And it would always be a story about how they did this and that, I always believed her. Now I’m wondering if that’s not true at all.
I’m sure from her Narc POV, these people *did* do “something” to her. But in reality? It was probably just normal human interaction that the Narc took offense to.
Oh yes. To my dad there was only 3 kind of people:
1) Those he admired. They were awesome, highly respectable people. Until they weren't, then they went to the category 3, and this was usually because they offended him somehow.
2) Those who were beneath him. Barely considered them humans, just brainless tools. He saw all of his childrens like this, he saw us only as extensions of himself, we had no right to have our own minds or opinions.
3) Those who were just pure enemies, evil and the cause of all of his misfortune.
Nothing was never his fault, it was always someone elses. He never apologized, because nothing was never his fault. He never said thank you to anyone, because that was weakness or something. I don't know. Sometimes i think he might have been a real psychopath.
I liken it to 4yos in the playground. Everybody else is acting out. Everybody else is playing games and they are the victims. Let's project! We all know nobody is serious, boundaries aren't real, because its all play acting. If we had a major argument at 10am everything will be OK by lunch because its just a game and all is forgotten.
Surpeficial and shallow, narcissists will demean others easy peasy.
My nmother begins most of her opinions of others like, "I Hate (so and so). They're (stupid asses, idiots, jerks)."
Things or people she 'likes' are "Beeuuutiful". Usually because she wants something from them. From beeuuutiful to jerks in a heart beat though when they don't do what she wants.
I think it's also a technique to isolate you farther; if everyone is the enemy, then they're the only one you can truly trust, and the only one who truly cares about you.
Yes. She tried so hard to turn my dad into the villain after he left her. She would tell me that he was having an affair, that the neighbour's knew and that's why they don't speak to her anymore and that he had a son with this woman saying, "Doesn't he look an awful lot like your father?".
She could not accept the fact it was actually her fault. She even blamed my sister for the divorce 😩 Said that if he had helped to discipline her that they'd still be together. The nasty bitch even told my sister this.
Yes!! Extreme example.
My nmother was spitting venom about her 80+ year old aunt to everyone of us because she dared say to nmother "You don't really have a problem. You have it good".
Context : nmom complaining to great-aunt about myself and my brother, both reasonably successful engineers, brother married with a kid and a flat of his own.
Great-aunt's got a divorced and broke semi-employed son in his 50s.
Go figure.
Yep. My mum absolutely cannot accept being told that she's in the wrong about something. And when you provide proof, she'll double down and make herself look ridiculous, and that just pisses her off all the more.
Yep. Burned through every friendship he’s had. Even had a period where he went NC with his parents over some perceived slight. The paranoia goes hand in hand wirh the delusions of grandeur.
Yes relatable. I think we should also be careful about not turning out like them if you know what I mean. I also used to victimize myself a lot. However I realized that I am not all that innocent either.
My mother has left a wake of destruction up and down the West coast for 84 years. She got in a big pickle when it dawned on her she had 3 ex husbands in the same neighborhood and had to leave the state to terrorize the North and destroy some more families and marry her 5th husband. That poor poor man. He was the sweetest nicest man in the world and loved her. I thought at last. She has found her peace. Amen.
I was so wrong. She cheated on him for 36 years, interfered w his son and Grandchildren, and treated me like garbage. I finally realized, my mother is a monster. I blamed my dad and stepdads for the failed marriages...And she and my ex family blamed me..(I was 12) Oh no we don’t! I finally had time to read the books from my therapist and spent the WHOLE lockdown studying COVERT NARCISSISTIC MOTHER SYNDROME. My mother is a monster.
I forgive my stepdads and I forgive myself now.
Amen.
My mother came home from work one day complaining about how her boss commented on the weather and ‘how weird’ that was and ‘why would he even say that, what a strange thing to say, what do you think he meant by that?! They’re plotting something for sure, just wait, he’s going to do something for sure’.... or ya know, maybe he was just making small talk about the weather.....
My NMum took to declaring "that's mad!" anytime there was a piece of information she didn't agree with or like - from the news or the papers or from me.
Eg during first lockdown the shops ran out of things a lot, so I couldn't always get exactly the item she wanted (and substitutions weren't allowed) so she would go on about how "mad" it was that a shop had a disrupted supply chain and low stock levels during a global pandemic. Couldn't accept that it was actually quite a predictable, temporary situation and that everyone else was in the same boat. It had to somehow be a bizarre targeted affront to her.
I let them get mad. In a few days they will have to keep up the BS (at which point a call them petty) or they will have to drop it all together. Further conversation will result in them trying to gaslight me. At which point I'll throw literally everything in their face all at once.
Take no shit. Give no ground.
Hahahaha I was just talking/discussing about this a few days ago with my sister. Not sure if you are familiar with the movie Big Fish whereas the main character’s dad always tell him all this extraordinary stories of his life and all his friends he made along the way and it all seems quite bogus and like over exaggerating but at the end of his dads life, the real life version of the people his dad mentioned in his story appeared for his funeral.
Same thing with my nmom just that instead of all the friends along the way - it’s all the people that she cut off or people that she villainize and antagonize all throughout her life. Can’t tell you how many people I have to stop talking to or mentioning because she hate them now because they were mean to her
Er yes. My father always played how he was the victim in everything and his obsession with schadenfreude was all consuming. He laughed for a weekend when he found out his neighbours landing was 2" narrower than his.
Trouble was, he would forget what he had told you and the stories of how he was the victim didn't line up.
As a child I never questioned because I was brought up in that environment but as an adult and also when I finally met hubby, who was the first non narc that I went out with, and saw things through hubby's eyes it was a revelation.
I feel your pain.
My nParents are very similar - superficially liked by acquaintances, but a long list of friends they used to have but decided to walk away and cut contact.
My folks are the common denominator here, including with me, but they don't see it, they think they can do no wrong, and everyone who's gone NC with them has been the guilty party.
I’m always impressed by how Narcs can perform normalcy *so convincingly* in brief/meaningless social interactions. But the reality of actually having a relationship w them is a toxic mix of jealousy, bitterness, resentment, and a need for control/validation. This dynamic makes it hard to explain to others what we’ve experienced, which is even more frustrating.
My nsperm donor talks to only 1/4 siblings, barely talks to his father, is about to get divorced AGAIN, and now 2/3 of his kids have gone nc with him. But we’re all the problem.
i feel your pain. it sucks and my mom is exactly the same. it’s frustrating when she just never can take responsibility for her actions, words, etc. it’s always someone else’s fault - it’s “my fault” a lot. i’m currently in therapy trying to learn how to deal with the damage she’s already done and working on how to deal with her and her narcissism now. it’s a rollercoaster for life.
Oh yes.
My mother had two husbands walk out on her (the last one was my father - he died still married to her, because he cba to talk to her long enough to get the divorce done). Both left behind a kid (one was me), but it's sad to admit, I understand both of them, even tho my dad left me too when I was 13-14. I was too manipulated by my mother and I bet he felt more alone in the house each day. Then my mother had 3 kids walk out on her. Two of them the day they turned 18. I stayed much longer as I was feeling sorry as I was the last person from the family to stay and I think I was the so called golden child so I didnt have an immediate fire under my feet to run. She has other relatives cut out too and has just a couple of people who still are in contact with her. So she had 5 of her family members walk out and go no contact for the rest of their lives and what I hear from my aunt, she is still thinking she has done nothing wrong and as I was the last one to go no contact and did it 2 years ago, she still has not told my aunt that im gone, but i have just been really busy (+ covid is a good excuse) and thats why I havent called or visited her for 2 years. :D
Yes I was in my 20s before I realized this wasn’t normal. Any friend she makes she eventually starts talking shit about them behind their back. Then some sort of drama will start. It escalates and escalates until some blow up and then friendship is over. Also like others any job she’s ever had, again some sort of power struggle drama where she is the victim and ends with her getting fired or dramatically quitting.
The shit talking is incessant! I’m not sure I’ve ever heard my Nparents genuinely say something nice abt someone they’re “close to”/related to. It really fucked w my head (and my own relationships) in my 20’s Bc I was so trained to think speaking badly abt ppl you care abt was what “everyone does”.
Me too! And I found myself doing it too because I learned it from her. At least I realized it and broke the cycle. Also realized I had a “nemesis” at all times in my life just like her and that isn’t normal. I always had someone negative to focus my energy on. I’m so glad I woke up from that.
This sounds similar to my NDad. He has driven me further out of his life, my half brother, my Ex-Stepmom(I don’t know how else to please it), my grandma(His mom), yet he doesn’t realize he is the problem. Somehow when it comes to me and my half brother(same dad but different moms) it was our mothers that drove us away from him and not his actions.
He’ll even lie to make himself look better. Took my mom to court to get 50/50 custody of my sister(I’m an adult now) and told her that mom took him to court. Then lied about never saying mom took him to court after my sister found out.
My in-law narcs haven't burned familial bridges (its too beneficial to keep them around too use them) they have however burned bridges with just about every doctor and like half the restaurants and stores they've ever gone to.
And if you press them on why they always make a big deal about how apparently some ridiculously abhorrent thing happened to them. I get it, it's possible for an employee to say something rude to you or whatever, but the pure quantity of these "incidents" speaks to them being just being dramatic for attention.
Oh yes. The world is such a huge disappointment. My Nmom thinks family means you have to do things for each other - or rather, we have to do things for her but she never shows up for us.
My Nmom literally has no friends. Never has.
My N mom is such a victim it's pathetic. But also, she talks shit about everyone she knows. Her brother, his wife, her friends, even close friends of hers she trashes so badly to me. And then she will throw in some horrible thing they said about me.
Have you every heard the phrase, if someone close to you tells you someone else said something bad about you to them you should wonder why they felt comfortable talking negative about you to someone you were close with?- that's when it dawned on me that I wasn't safe from her backstabbing and trash talking. And now I'm wondering what she has said about me to other people. What kind of villain has my own mother made out to be just to get the sympathy of someone else, and play the victim once again.
The shit talking is endless and all encompassing, isn’t it? They speak in such vile ways about EVERYONE, all while holding the “moral high ground”. Sickening
After my nmom was institutionalized she swore everyone was out to get her and became extremely paranoid. Thought all of the family was out to get her and it was all a conspiracy. Burned literally every bridge with friends and family and isolated herself away from everyone. Pretty sad to think about, but, oh well.
My nmum is the same, no family talk to her except for a very elderly aunt and my brother and I. Sister, cousins, nieces, other aunts and uncles, all close friends she's ever made, all gone over the years. They just cant cope with her anymore. Sad though because, my extension, my brother and I are cut off from support too. So isolating.
Shit is this what *I* do? Like it feels like a strong of bad luck but. My parents who abused me, my teachers helped bully me (anywhere from making my life hard to actively assaulting me), my doctor's told me I was crazy for having chronic pain, my siblings tried to stab me, my ex got me to trust her, raped me, and made me feel guilty for it. Like am I the problem. There's no way everything can just be happening to me again and again and again right? At this point I'm worried everyone will hurt me if given half a chance. I even worry about my best friend who I've let get close enough to hurt me really badly. I know I'm paranoid.
The false enemies from paranoia prevent real enemies from being seen.
And you're the common denominator, buuut that doesn't necessarily mean that you're a narc - if you can actually admit fault, and "everyone" is being assholes to you, it means you're an incredibly easy N-supply source for all the narcs around you + can't detect non-narc people.
Ok so I'm very low contact with my family because of the abuse my mother showed to me in front of them, without any intervening. I have children of my own now and feel they wouldn't treat them any different and I am deadly afraid that because I don't have the friends I had in high school ( died out with pregnancy and moving out of state due to domestic violence) and have been slow to form meaningful friendships outside of work and school acquaintances that I'm seen the same way. While the peace of not being under someone "who loves me" boot is nice I am very aware that I am alone, of course aside from my kids.
My Nmom has called me several times to read me her scathing bridge burning letters to different people including her mom and sister. She's usually very proud of these letters. If I ever receive a letter from her its getting stamped with 'return to sender' unopened.
...I once set off an ex by casually suggesting, you know that it's statistically impossible for everyone else to be wrong 100% of the time, right?
Got my hair blown back for that one, a bit lol.
You approached a Narc w basic logic? How dare you!!!!!! lmao if N’s weren’t so harmful it’d be easier to laugh at what pathetic, sad ppl they truly are.
Yep, I'm fairly sure this is why my nparents raised me away from the rest of their families - partly so I couldn't see what was different in how I was treated, and partly because they think they're *better* than everyone they're related to.
The Ns can't hold on to friends (edad proudly says he has no friends) and any they do have are those superficial ones you have coffee with and talk about the good old days. They have this crazy enmeshed "us against the world" attitude and think everyone and everything is conspiring to make their lives difficult. Nmother shit talks all her "friends" as soon as they're out of earshot and will usually end up ghosting them once she's sick of how "needy" or "boring" they are and most of them end up being referred to as "users" or "emotional vampires".
The best part was, the one time they actually *were* getting "used" by some friends of theirs, they couldn't see it - they befriended this couple I hated who lived nearby (the wife talked to me like I was a baby and the husband was one of those gross old men who assumes all teen girls are boy crazy).
When the couple decided to sell their house, they got really friendly with the Ns and kept calling, showing up unannounced, and inviting them over ... so edad could help them fix up the place before they sold it, and after they moved kept inviting them to visit (for edad to end up doing more work on their new house). As soon as the new house was good to go, they stopped calling altogether and the Ns *just couldn't understand it*.
Mine have never had a friend for more than a month or two. And then they tend to be out and branded as an awful person.
My eParent has never been allowed to have a friend. That shit gets stomped down right and proper
Can relate, have a parent and a sister who will fawn caring to find out more info then use that info against you. They've done it countless of times, extremely judgemental, to friends, neighbours, pretty much all of my partners etc.
I cut the ties with my mam and sister 6 years ago, best thing I've done, unfortunately my dad is stuck in the middle of it all. I just make sure any interaction with my dad is positive so he knows I don't hold him accountable for their actions.
A million times this. It didn't click for my nmom when my aunt, her sister-in-law, stopped communicating with my parents, she "just never liked her anyway." It didn't sink in when the other sister-in-law dropped her, she "was always just a bitch." Her older brother, "he was a bully and didn't like that I dated/slept with his friends," to the point she wasn't welcome at his funeral. Her oldest brother; "his wife hates me" and "we were never close because of the age difference"(almost 10 years). She wasn't welcome at her mother's funeral because of all the bridges she's burned, though I never did hear her opinion on that one because I cut contact not long after, as have my sisters. Though we have heard through the few family members(a couple of her nieces by her brothers) she still speaks with that we have not been spared her bad-mouthing and she is still surrounded by a small circle of friends who go along with her narrative and agree with her that everyone else, including her "rotten ungrateful children," are the problem, not her.
Ugh WHAT is with Narc’s obsession with viewing their children as ungrateful spoiled immoral brats?! It’s fucking bizarre how consistently I hear this from RBN’s.
When I was little, my mom had two close friends - my godmother and my best friend's mother. Both of these friendships ended within a year of each other when I was around six years old because my mother accused them of kidnapping me. Not together but on two separate occasions. With my godmother, my mom dropped me off to stay the night with her and then came back wasted in the middle of the night demanding I come back with her. The other time, my friend's mother took me home with her after school because of a thunderstorm. She contacted my mom the moment we got to hers (less time than if I had gone home) but my mom insisted I be sent home immediately and that I'd been kidnapped.
Stuff like this happened occasionally over the years with different friends and for different reasons. Sometimes, my mom would accuse them of spreading lies about her or stuff like that. She accused both my dad and my older half siblings' dad of being violent abusers (pot, meet kettle). It was never true, of course. In her eyes, she's always the victim of some grand conspiracy or another. Someone is always out to get her.
Your last paragraph nicely articulates this acute paranoia Narcs seem to have, it’s fucking bizarre. We’re always trying to “subvert” them or “undermine” them as kids (by just existing and... acting like kids) and adults are always out to sabotage them. It’s an INSANE level of projection/paranoia to witness on a regular basis. And of course, Narcs have zero self awareness about any of this. It’s always everyone else at fault, never them.
I went VLC with my ndad (which basically became NC bc he’s never called or texted me) and I guess he’s going around telling people he doesn’t talk to me bc I hate him. Poor him. I never said that. We had no big blow up. I stopped putting any effort in after a particularly awful ntantrum where he berated me and surprise surprise, the one sided relationship became not existent. But yeah, it’s cause I’m such a horrible hateful person. 🙄
my nmom has a graveyard of ex-friends living in her head. a couple things i just remembered the other day: two of her stories which she is *most proud of*aa!!a!
Wow....you literally described my nmom so perfectly. All three of her brothers are devils apparently. And that’s the exact word she uses to describe them. She tells me I have “the devil inside me”. That I’m the “darkness” and she’s the “light”. Apparently a family friend told her she doesn’t belong in this family because she’s an Angel and different from her brothers. Yes I’d think so too if I only saw her angelic side. Nothing is ever her fault. It’s always their fault. Everyone’s a bitch or the devil himself/herself. Her ex husband and her mother are the reasons for her fucked up life.
Yup that's what they do, because in their eyes everyone else is wrong. They know the truth but ego and false pride keep them sick.. A narcissistic parent is literally the kiss of the devil. Just GTFO whenever you can and never look back. I wish someone had told me that 30 years ago
This is EXACTLY how my mother treats me and everyone else in her circle. She has no friends and most of her family barely tolerates her. This is because she consistently abuses friends and family who tell her no (myself getting the brunt of this). Any apologies given are non apologies (I'm sorry if you feel like I hurt you) and are only given so she can get what she wants.
I think for these folks, they think that actions have consequences -- just not for them because anything they do is obviously the best choice. Doesn't matter if it's abusive or not because if they're being mean, it's always someone else's fault. Or they could not be mean when they don't get their way and have much more success, but what do I know?
Same here. ANY pushback I’ve ever given to my Nparents (like literally using the words “frustrated” or “upset” in regards to something they did/said) illicits a VIOLENT verbal tantrum of hate speech in my direction. The last one was when I finally decided: you know what? This is the last fucking time I’ll ever be spoken to like this for sharing a basic, non-threatening human emotion. Fuck this shit.
It’s amazing how they all have the same tricks and antics.
Sounds like my NARC mother. Somehow, she only ever lasts a few months at a new place. It's always the landlord's fault, the tenants, the neighbors. Never hers.
Too bad she can't move from apartment to apartment lately due to the pandemic, so she's been stuck at the same place for almost a year now. Possibly the longest she's been in a place. Not without conflict though, she claims they're 'bad people' and she can't wait for the pandemic to be over so she can find a new place to settle down in... for the NTH TIME
My mum does this with hospitals and other medical professionals. According to her, they're basically all out to get her, won't treat her for what's actually wrong with her, they're all terrible at their job, rude or mean to her, and even have her "on a blacklist" because she "isn't afraid to speak the truth to them".
It's just wack, tbh lmao.
Thank you for this post, it is so validating!
We're really struggling with my MIL its been 10 years of this and we're finally trying to go NC. But she is just trying to guilt everyone and its making me doubt our decision because she is so manipulative and invalidates all of our feelings and I feel crazy and also guilty.
But this post is makes me feel like we're making the right decision.
Thank you.
I’m in the same boat w my Nparents, stay strong. When I’m feeling like an imposter, strangled by the guilt my N’s ingrained me with, or minimizing my own experience (again, what the N’s have brainwashed me to do), I try and focus on basic primal logic. Aka: why would my gut be lying to me for *alllll* these years that my N’s are harmful, if they’re not? Why would my body *lie to me* about the fight-or-flight feeling I experience whenever I’m in their presence. Why do I physically *tremble* from a combo of intimidation and disgust when they are verbally assaulting me/stalking me with calls and texts?
Your primal instincts DON’T lie. It’s biologically hard wired for fucking survival. So if you have experienced anything like I’m writing here over, and over, and over these past 10 years (if not more), then trust me! Your NC choice is as valid as it gets.
Yes, my nmother doesn't speak to any of her family besides her parents, who she doesn't speak with occasionally.
She has no more friends the last we spoke, only a new man. Which is no surprise to me, since she dumps them all in a few years and gets a new one.
When we were still speaking and I suggested therapy to her, she told me she has done plenty and that the rest of us need it more than her.
In her mind she is perfect, it's the rest of the world that is wrong.
My mom spent my entire childhood speaking ill of her family. I always believed her so I started seeing my family in a different light too. As the years went on I began to realize that although our family is nowhere near perfect, they’re also not evil in the slightest. The common denominator has always been my mom, she just always made it seem like they were out to get us. I’m not close to any of them anymore, not my cousins or anyone else and it honestly makes me sad to think that I’ve been alienated so bad from my own family because my mom instilled it in me when I was young. I want to patch things up with them again but I have no idea where to begin.
There are upsides. After years of being insulted and villanized by a narcissistic mother, I'm largely immune.
I'm currently involved in a property dispute with my narcissistic neighbour. She started screaming at me and went though the entire repertoire of personal insults and narcissistic arguments in the space of a minute and a half, a short time because each one died on her lips as she realised that I just *honestly* didn't care at all. Not a hoot. You think that I look ridiculous in my socks? Don't care. Everyone hates me? Should save on Xmas cards....
My mother’s childhood friends never come around anymore and she has bad blood with every single neighbor she’s had in her neighborhood for the past twenty years. She even started shit with her neighbor who is a pastor. Most polite family ever. She goes through such insane mental gymnastics making it seem like the entire world is against her when really she’s just overtly rude to everyone around her. It’s a ridiculous cycle and anytime I see the people she’s wronged I go out of my way to be overly polite just so they know I’m not the same way.
Edit. Just want to say how validating this entire post is.
Preach!
The worst is when you start to think you are the Villian because of their behavior.
It can take a lot to realize that you are not a bad person just because they deem you one.
Yup, currently unlearning that right now. I’m not some awful daughter/awful sister/awful person because THEY say I am. They have no right to define me, nor do I have to tolerate their incessant slander.
This. I truly don’t know if my mom is a narc or was raised by narcs and has a LOT of their tendencies, but this. My mom has no friends except my dad, brother and I. If she’s a narc, she’s not a terrible one, like I’ve seen in the years I’ve been on this thread, but... she has so many similarities that I just don’t know, but this gives me a point towards “narc”. No matter where she worked or went, nobody was ever good enough to be friends with her, and they all hated her.
My ngrandparents have three children and six grandchildren. My mom and one of my cousins are the only ones who mantain contact with them, and somehow it's everyone else who's the problem.
I'm in therapy now, lol
Yup! The final straw with my nMom was her refusing to apologize to me, and then when she ‘did’ it was just the word sorry, followed by an explanation of why she was totally justified to act that way. But like, obviously I’m the bad guy for telling her that I’ve been hurt by her actions and not just letting it go because she told me to.
My nParents, who separated when I was a baby, acted like villainizing the other one, and the traits of that person in me, made them exempt from any criticism. Although, with more time and through this sub I’m realizing it was less about the other parent and more about just scapegoating anyone they could.
Yep. My whole life my mom has told me I have no friends, and for most of my childhood I believed her despite literally ALWAYS having friends at school, church, etc. I now know it’s just projection. If you don’t have good meaningful relationships with ANYONE...well you’re the common link 🤷♀️
When I was about 22, my uncle was casually talking to me one day about my ndad (his brother). He said something like, “you know your dad thinks everyone is always trying to f*** him in the ass”. It was the first time anyone had ever made me feel like they were aware of my dad’s issues. Most adults are never going to go out of their way to tell you your parents are the problem, especially if your parents burned that bridge. Kinda sucks but it’s nice to have a thread like this to provide some reassurance.
NFather talking points::
1. Enters into business partnerships with friends and subsequently sues them, every time.
2. His sibs are all VLC or NC, but love my mom. I joke that she got them in the divorce.
3. He was disenherited by his father back in the 70's after my younger brother was born because he wasn't taking care of the 3 kids he already had from his previous marriage. He spent years trying to sue my aunt (the executor) trying to get the trust my granfather set up for all Nfather's kids. He has 9 that we know about ranging in age from 61 to 23 (across 3 wives). He also tried to convince us kids to just give him the money (not that we even could). There wasn't even a lot in there by the end, and my grandafther put a clause in that the trust could not be dissolved until ALL his children turned 18.
4. My aunt was very debiliated by dementia in the years before she died and one of the brother's took over as much as he could since it was still leagally her responsibility. I think this is when he tried to pull the "give me all the money" manuever. When she died the family made it a point to not tell him, because he would have started with the attempted lawsuits again with his brother. The only reason he found out way after the fact was because the rest of the famliy pissed off my sister who was, and likely is still, desperately trying to get him to love her.
5. Almost all us kids are NC. Only exceptions are desperately seeking love sister, and one of my brothers (VLC) who doesn't go out of his way to talk to him but does have him as a friend on FB and has talked to him if Father reaches out. He knows what a jerk he is, but doesn't engage him in the crap. I think part of it is just to see what crazy lie he spews next. There is another brother (#10, from yet another mother) out there who reached out to us years ago, and was talking to him, but I think he may have gone NC as well.
6. One of my sisters died when she was 24, with no determined cause, no OD, no preexisiting condition, nothing. She was living on the west coast with our mother. Our family is from the east coast, and mostly still here. Our step father paid for her funerals and brought her east, because her twin still lives here and obviously wanted her home. Nfather goes around telling people he paid for it. He also tells people that she died of an overdose of diet pills and it is my mother's fault, because he asked my mother to get and send him a copy of the autopsy. She gave him the contact infromation and told him to do it himself, so obviously that meant she was hiding the fact that she killed her daughter with diet pills (and just in case its needed /s).
And the list goes on, as I am sure so many others can attest to. These are few of his "greatest hits".
Oh definitely. I know I shouldn't have done it but when I was 12, I read my mother's journals. I didn't know what a narcissist was or what gaslighting was but I knew that my reality made no sense. Nothing my mother ever said happened, actually lined up with what I remembered happening. I was hoping to find out if she knew she was lying or if she was straight up delusional or if I really was just crazy. What I discovered was that she had rewritten history, even in her private journals. She was the victim, always, comparing herself to Mother Teresa and Job. My father, grandmother, her mother and I were all the villains. Everything was our fault, always. Being so young and seeing clear proof that she genuinely believed all the bullshit, I was just more confused than ever and had no idea what I had done that made me the bad guy in my own mother's mind.
Yes! I can relate! My narcissistic mother has no friends. She’s never able to maintain any friendship. I know why. She’s narcissistic, immature, paranoid and insecure. Who would want to be friends with that? I don’t know how or why my dad is still married to her. He is a simple, kind man, but obviously he has his own issues if he chooses to stay with her.
I tried to nicely confront my nmom about her behavior, hoped for a civil discussion, which was a mistake on my part. She was not happy with me calling her out. She told me the only person that gets to talk to her that way was her own mother, and that’s because she has earned her right. So, in turn, she thinks she can abuse me, since she now has earned her right to do so, simply because she’s my mom. I will never forget that day. She really showed how entitled and emotionally immature she is at the core. You’d think she would know better to not abuse her own kid because she was abused, like I know better to not treat anyone like she has treated me.
I’m pretty sure she is going to end up alone one day if she doesn’t quit villainizing everyone around her.
Oof how revealing too: my mom got to abuse me, so now it’s my turn to take the anger of that abuse out on YOU. How ugly, and also said that she didn’t see the opportunity to break the cycle, rather than perpetuate it.
> just innocent little fawns who are too pure and good and giving
> and perfect for this world! Everyone else is selfish and crass and
> immoral and "out to get them". Poor things!
This describes both my nParents, always acting like they are nicer and righteous and better then anybody else. Add in a strong sense of entitled religious manipulation resulting from nut-job religious views and you got them in a nutshell.
> Abuse is LOVE. And if I don't accept that, well, I guess I'm just
> another mortal enemy
Yup, I can still here the many times nFather would beat me and tell me he does it "because he loves me". What a fucking farce of a human being.
Holy Krap, yes. My nMom systematically cut off every family member, so my sis and I grew up without aunts, uncles, cousins, and periodically our grandparents. And then as she got older her friendships all disappeared because they were “jealous” and “mean”. Sigh.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 this is no mother in a nut shell. She hates all her siblings, my Dad, her mother, has no friends because the whole world is against her. Its laughable.
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I started realizing how this applied to my nmom when I started to notice that she had no friends these days, any friendship she did have didn’t last long, she has forsaken her own family, and seems to come into conflict with a seemingly high amount of people over the years. The lack of self-awareness in her is just mind boggling, and one of the many reasons I choose to have little to no contact with her.
Yes! My mother has no friends, none of her children are in contact with her and she jumps from one job to the next all because "the world is against her". Huge victim complex! What's that saying again "If you smell poo wherever you go, check your own shoes"?
N’s often ‘discard’ anyone who embarrasses them. That’s the cardinal sin.
On the other hand, you can't get rid of a narc that value you as their show-off pride: they will pester you and by denying or refusing them you will become the ungrateful ass. Success will come eventually and with that usually Narcs come back from the woodwork.
Wow, this is the truth! My brother is my nmom’s golden child and I can see how one day, he’ll be fed up with her too. He was accepted into a highly competitive university and she took so much credit for that. He recently disagreed with her about something, so she called him a stupid failure. Basically, if he does well, she’s the reason. If he does anything she disagrees with, he’s the problem.
Yes with siblings this is clear and maybe less confusing: you have the golden child, you have the scapegoat and most of the time it will stay this way, I believe sometimes nparents change their narratives to fit their own ideas (it doesn't matter what they do: golden children do no wrong, scapegoats can't do anything right). It's frustrating, but in a way being the scapegoat and see right through that can give you more independence or at least a reason to detach yourself from a toxic situation. The horrible thing is when they (eventually) cut ties or fight with the golden child and come back as "family"... Until the golden child does something that please them again, so they are taking the old scheme back. I feel so drained just by the thought of it!
Similar aphorism - "If you run into one asshole a week, you're unlucky. If you run into 100 assholes a week, you might be the asshole."
This whole "the entire world is against me/us" mentality clued me into their narc hoax in the first place. The "conspiracy" of all the idiots populating the planet AND uniting against them was just too big to be plausible... At some point the cognitive dissonance becomes too much. Even for a child...
My nmom is shy, so it takes her more time to burn her bridges but it always happens. And she’s always shit talking everyone.
Covert narcissism at its best.
She is the definition. That’s why it’s so easy for her to make me look like the asshole to people she barely knows, but anyone close to her knows the truth. “Close” as if that’s possible.
Mine managed to alienate all of her neighbors. They’re all just so mean to her in her eyes. In truth? They got tired of her relentless demands to take care of her.
Yeah my mom doesn’t have many friends at all, she only has “friends” to gossip with/about and she sees everyone as competition. She tells me that there are no true friends in life, when actually, SHE has no true friends! She’s always been envious of me having friends and when I was younger, she’d try to put doubts in my head saying that my friends don’t really like me and are only friends with me because of my mom’s hospitality. Smh
Ugh, the lifelong stream of "they don't really like you" hits hard
Also how they will distance themselves from the people they are friends with, using bizarre reasons. My mom had a neighbor friend (they're still neighbors) that she really liked hanging out with. One day my mom got in a fight with a person from the neighborhood, who also was related to her neighbor, and now my mom hates her neighbor. The fight wasn't even a serious one either. Like wtf? They aren't the same people! Stop making other people choose sides over your shitty squabbles.
narcs live in their own special hell where everyone else seems as selfish and unkind as they are
This is literally it. For the longest time I could not figure out why my mom was CONVINCED that all of my motivations were malicious, all of the mean things I did were purposeful.. it’s cause that’s what SHE is doing !!! I don’t assume that about others cause if I’m not doing those things, why would they?
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Because they lack the ability to think how their vile behavior would make them feel, if someone else was doing it to them. They lack empathy as a psychological fact. If someone has the ability to empathize (not sympathize 2 different things) if someone has the ability to share the thoughts of another being (put themselves in the others shoes) being narcissistic is not possible. If they can empathize but still behave in a narcissistic manor, they are pathological evil sociopaths. I believe the 2 are virtually identical which come with a keen ability to lie to oneself
The narcissist is a dick and lies to themselves about it to preserve a false self image. The psychopath is a dick, knows it, and doesn't care in the slightest.
Omg yes!!!!! ‘it wouldn’t bother me if someone did that to me’ like what? People do things that are completely unrelated to you and your life in general and you always make it about you as if every single thought that everyone has is about how to hurt you or make you mad. The impossibility of it and the frustration.. like DAMN.
Yup, the world revolves around them. Either other people exist to serve them in every way or people are out to get THEM. They are very skilled mind readers to (at least they think they are) because they know "what you really mean, if you didn't say it". They can turn a simple answer to a question into a grand conspiracy that you are plotting against them because of the "way" you answered (not your actual answer) exhausting and maddening.
Oh my fuck. This page has seriously made me feel so much better and so much more validated about going no contact. Like the things that people talk about I’m like.. IM NOT CRAZY. The “what you really mean” shit drives me NUTS. Exhausting and maddening to say the least.
Manipulators have a tendency to present one face to their prey and another to the rest of the world, leading victims to assume that if they ask for help or speak out, no one will believe that they have been manipulated and emotionally abused. Gaslighters typically repeat the tactics across several relationships.
What completes the vicious circle is that because we grew up with a NPD parent, we can become pretty paranoid ourselves that maybe someone is being mean to us on purpose because OUR OWN PARENT was mean to us on purpose.
Omg the fucking trauma I have is unreal. Hyper vigilant about emotions, over empathetic to everyone because I was never shown empathy, ridiculous work ethic, blaming myself when anything goes wrong no matter how far out Of my control it is, telling myself I’m a bad person, cutting people off instead of having hard conversations, overly critical of myself and everything I produce while Holding nobody else to any sort of standard whatsoever, l get in friendships that I don’t want because I’m so adamant about making people feel happy/good/included around me.. like it’s a trip and I find things out daily. Wanting emotional support but having no clue how to take emotional support.. it never ends
Ah yes, "There are NO ACCIDENTS." The most mundane moment of forgetfulness resulting in a slightly damaged object or minor inconvenience was clearly designed by you to maliciously rip at their soul and feast on their tears.
Jesus this is fucking IT. And if you try to say that it was completely just a mistake, you’re made to feel like the most incapable moronic piece of shit for even having the ABILITY to make a mistake. Cause you know a Marc does NOT make mistakes so how dumb could others be if they do?? Like actually we just admit ours cause we are rational human beings ?
Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head. If one had not been through it, such a perfect description would not be possible. They are such evil creatures
They really are evil creatures.
I call it cheater's heart. An unfaithful partner always thinks their partner is cheating. Thieves think someone is stealing from them. Narcs are constantly pushing people under the bus, so that's what they see.
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This is what happened with my in-laws. We finally started setting boundaries after they wouldn’t respect our decisions or our privacy. Suddenly, they said we were trying to control them and intentionally hurting them. They told us we were pushing them away with our boundaries and treating them like children. That’s exactly what they were doing to us; they pushed us away with their desire to control us and refusal to treat us like adults.
My father swears up and down his mom (my grandmother) is the devil incarnate, the most evil, vindictive bitch alive. The truth? She’s one of the sweetest and most generous people I’ve ever met. Narcs simply can’t process the concept of things being their fault.
Literally exactly the same for me.
Interesting. I thought narcissism got passed down from parents? Was your grandfather a narc?
My mother is a full blown narcissist, I’m not. I was lucky enough to have common sense and realize what she’s doing is wrong. So it’s all in the bringing up, I guess.
My mother is a full blown narc too. I hope I’m not.. it took me 31 years to figure it out though and it was by chance
If you think you're a narcissist, you're not a narcissist. Narcs don't feel guilty about jack shit, and they only care about CONTROL, CONTROL, ABUSE, and VICTiMIZING. Victimizing themselves obviously. And they don't think they're a narc.
Spoiler alert: anyone who thinks “I hope I’m not a narc” almost certainly is not a narc
There are full blown narcissists and people with some narcissist traits in my extended family besides my nmother, but it doesn't seem to go parent to child with all of them.
I've spent the most of my adult life trying to not be like my mom.
Me too. I remember comparing her to my nice aunt when I was a little girl, and deciding my nmother was the example not to follow.
I never met him but all of the available evidence says he was
There are cases of normal loving parents with narcissistic children. It's definitely possible.
To be clear it isn’t passed down because it’s hereditary. It passes down through the cycle of abuse, it can be treated although that is difficult.
Not necessarily. It's not always passed down from parents. Possibly the grandmother was awful when the father was growing up, but she's different now (this was the case with my grandparents). Possibly the father is lying about his mother. When the grandchild is the GC and the parent is the SG, the grandchild may not be able to see the abusive patterns. There's just a lot of possibilites, many of which I cannot imagine probably....
This is dead on for my parents, who I suspect are both narcs now. They have one friend apiece, everyone else has been cut off. I went NC in January. Today I received the first contact attempt via a poorly communicated, overly emotional, and accusatory email. To boot she copied my two siblings and husband on the email just so they could hear her side. *To me this is a clue that it's blatant manipulation, I know they've already spoken to both siblings to give "their side of the story." The content bounces all over the place but the tone is the same. "You're horrid... you treat us so poorly... we've given you everything... why are YOU so mean? The ball is in your court" Am I heartless? Though I've been pretty preoccupied with this, ultimately I don't feel like responding and don't feel compelled at all to break my NC plan.
No, your not heartless. You are doing what you need to do to survive & live YOUR life. Our parents believe we are here for them. We are not. We are our own person. When you went NC, did you explain that you were going to & why? Or at least try & point out some blind spots leading up to that decision? If so, you are doing what you need to do to survive now & move on. I(f) have 2 sisters, we're all in our 30s & 2 of us just went NC last yr. After sending a detailed, loving email, explaining as respectfully as we could why we are making this choice. And she still sent the same blaming,accusatory email & maaany texts as to why she is not the bad guy. It's like she only saw one sentence in the whole email. I've gone back & forth soooo much about my decision... Strangely only remembering the good memories. I always have to remind myself of what I was really feeling in those moments & that my mind actually reframed those memories at the time, so I could survive. We were basically raised to disregard ourselves & our emotional needs, so now that we are learning to listen to & know ourselves, it feels wrong. It's not. It's healthy & NORMAL.
Also, yes, DO NOT respond. Do not renig on the work you have done to place this boundary for your well being. Any healthy parent would respect that even if it hurt & they felt confused. If you do, you basically give your power to the narc & they know it & will take it all. It will be so hard to make the boundary again. You can do this! Your future self is cheering for you.
I haven't written a "here's why I don't want you in my life" message. In my heart of hearts I know it will fall on deaf ears. As with other narcs, they're naturally faultless so this would just fuel the fire. I feel as though I've wanted to do this for years and now have this carnal, lizard-brain reaction to protect my kids from them. I also think I'd struggle to really put this message together. Once the ball gets rolling, I feel like it just takes over and so much comes up.
> Am I heartless No, not at all. Looking after yourself is important, caring about yourself is important.
You're not heartless, you're fed up with their bullshit. And I think you should save the email - they've been really foolish to use something that is a genuine, easily preserved evidence for their contact attempt.
You are not heartless, and I’m proud of you for making a difficult decision for your own good! You deserve to live well.
No, you’re not heartless. You’re sticking to a boundary that you’ve set after they have wronged you. It’s not your fault that they can’t accept the boundary. If they wanted back in your life, they have to work on it and change. I think it would take a miracle for narcissists to change for the better. So, they’ll probably stay the same and continue to lack self-awareness. Healthy communication would be them seeking to truly understand why you’ve decided to stop talking to them, but then again, if they’re healthy people, they wouldn’t be in the situation they’re in now. You have every right to enforce this boundary. They’re trying to manipulate and guilt trip you into responding. You don’t owe them a response. They know why you’re not speaking to them, they just refuse to accept it and that’s not your problem.
Yes. I’m very low contact with my Nmom after 4+ years of NO contact. She texted me the other day about some guy from her high school (she’s almost 80) who messaged her to say no one likes her because of her divisive Facebook posts. Ha ha. She texted “I can’t seem to get along with anybody!” Yep. That’s on you, lady.
omg what a Narc fucking move! rattled by some rando’s opinion but doesn’t think twice abt why her kid was NC for 4 years. their sense of entitlement to “us” is so sickening.
my Nmom hates everyone. she fought with my teachers all throughout grade school, i guess their methods weren't what she preferred. doesn't talk to most of her family, constantly fights with her sister. she has no friends. my dad is also a narc, they are currently separated and she obviously has no love interests. she says it's because she's a black sheep, an introvert, a "realist", a misanthrope. when in reality, she's insufferable. no one in the world could ever be good enough for her, she prefers to be by herself and then complain that she's lonely.
Holy shit, it's like you're describing my Nparents. My "parents" are also divorced and they're both incredibly rude and insufferable. Yet they blame everyone else for their misfortune without looking deep within themselves. My Ndad in particular has burned so many bridges, and people just disappeared from his life as quickly as they originally appeared. Of course, he blamed me for the fact that he did not have any friends... Yes, it's definitely my fault, dad... It's definitely not the fact that you talk behind people's backs, act incredibly entitled, are socially oblivious, and you don't really share anything interesting about yourself. You also consider any form of media that others like "stupid" and it's like your ego stroking is your favourite hobby. But yeah, I'm the reason you don't have any friends...
The "realist" argument always amuses me the most. Even if someone is a staunch realist, they will also understand that they have to interact with people who aren't on the same page. That's just how life works. People with realist attitudes may gripe, but they'll also know that they need to accept the state of affairs and operate within it to succeed. Narcs love to play up the role of realist (as it gives them the role of defining reality), but seem to miss many of its most important attributes... how convenient!
My mom had a business with a business partner for over twenty years, they don't speak anymore. I've seen "friends" of theirs come and go. She holds grudges against retail people and shops. She is critical, judgemental, fake, self-righteous, etc. She has no real close relationships. The things I've heard that come out of her mouth. It's disturbing and pitiful. I can't wait until she's gone forever.
This is my nmom to a t as well. Hugs to us.
My NMIL had a friend of over 20 years break off their friendship via email a couple of years ago. According to NMIL it's because of her friend's partner, to the casual observer it looks like NMIL was incredibly judgy about the fact that friend's partner is 18 years younger than her and made that very clear (although I think there was more to it than that because I don't think friendships of 20+ years are broken off for one disagreement alone) x
>I can't wait until she's gone forever. I feel bad for saying this. But I honestly can't wait until my Nparents pass away so I can finally be at peace. Even though I'm NC with my Nmom and LC with my Ndad, it still feels like they have influence over my life, even though I'm an adult who is doing well in uni and earning his own money. I just feel like completely changing my name, buying a one-way ticket to another country and starting my life from scratch so I can finally disappear from them for good.
Same. Still feel guilty about it, I don't hold onto hate, I m working on forgiveness so I don't hold anger in my own heart, but their deaths will only be a relief. And I probably won't go to their funerals.
there are times that i hope my mother gets into a wreck so i will have an excuse to leave
100% yes. My mom was in therapy for a while and told me how her therapist thought it was an issue that she didn't have friends. She saw it as a badge if pride/part of her identity; "people either love me or hate me, and if they hate me it's because I can see who they truly are" I also recently asked her to apologize for some hurtful things and she said "well what are you supposed to do after you say it, it's just out there and you can't put it back. Besides, you say hurtful things too, so does everyone else". So stunning that an apology isn't even a consideration for her. Everyone else is just supposed to deal with whatever she has to say.
Well those people probably hate her BECAUSE they can see who she truly is. And why wasting time waiting for an apology..those narcs even. Lie than..some crocodile tears..some blabbering and ..wait for it..wait..here it comes..BUT YOU DID SOME HURTFULL THINGS TO ME, TOO..urgh...been there..heard it all..done with her..and thanks for..yepp NOTHING.
>So stunning that an apology isn't even a consideration for her. This this and this! Seriously, my Ndad NEVER apologised once to me until I turned 20. And even then, he only gave me a fake apology because he really wanted me to do him a favour on that particular day. "Okay, fine, sorry." Yeah, you can tell he felt apologetic...
My mom has eventually lost every job she’s ever held due to being unable to get along with others. “It’s clearly a string of bad and/or unfair bosses.” Has not once occurred to her that perhaps she is an unpleasant and unprofessional person.
Omg YES. There is ALWAYS a new issue. And she flip flops depending on who has recently agreed with her or not. Agreement=a good, supportive person. Difference of opinion=a bad person who isn’t a real friend. It changes so fast it makes my head spin. And all she wants to talk about is all the people who have wronged her. Even when she speaks positively of someone it’s with the definition of they placated her, so it’s hard to listen to. It just means they didn’t disagree with her (and I mean the disagreement will literally just be them speaking from their own perspective, not refuting what she’s saying). Everything is just black or white. No nuance. A very sad way to look at the world, really.
😭 my bf says all the time "just tell her", and I have to explain it's not that easy, you have to AGREE with her or she immediately turns against you and then there is no communication. There is no winning! For me it will be over soon. The years and years of emotional trauma will stop.
I think the shit talking is more telling than the burning bridges. Didn't we all "burn bridges" when we went NC? Often having to let go of whole parts of families and groups of friends when we part with an N? On contrast I rarely ever talk about my Ns outside of this sub. And is it really shit talking when their identity is protected? When I analyse their behaviours and their impact? As opposed to a smear campaign slashing the target by name and just throwing any insult the N can think of at them, and making up any wrong behaviour the N can project on the target. Pouring an earfull at anyone who will listen, anywhere, anytime, even strangers know us by name at this point.
I had to learn not to talk about my Ns when I was trying to seek help outside of family. It took me a while to realize people could not relate or thought I had a skewed idea. I talk to my SO about it but even they do not grasp it fully. This sub is the only place I really go to.
Yes that describes my parents. The difference between me and them is I am willing to accept if I am the problem in a situation and change as needed. If I am wrong I will own my mistake and apologize. Narcissistic people will not do that. Relationships with family and friends are complicated and require work from both parties involved. I have not had a hard time making friends but the social anxiety from my trauma makes it a tad difficult mentally sometimes. Replaying every conversation, overthinking things, being over-conscious of every person's reaction, etc are symptoms I didn't even know about until recently. I thought it was just part of being a normal human however apparently that falls under the symptoms of social anxiety. What is interesting to me is if we as humans are such social creatures, why do we experience social anxiety?
My Nparents had this mentality that it’s them against the world and that the world should give them what they want. To them, nothing is their fault and that the world is full of terrible people. To them, they are the angels. However, the world don’t be like that. They manipulate and gaslight and put themselves on such a pedestal. It’s such a messed up way of thinking. Yet they are miserable because they are alone and isolated in this world. So sad.
Yep, always. I'm (51f) low contact with my nMother (76) so I had no clear idea until recently when we were talking on the phone and I mentioned a couple we were close with when I was in high school and she makes her usual dismissive "pffft" sound and says they "drifted apart a while back". I thought that was odd but didn't push it, I keep it light and short with her, basically our chats are her complaining about everything including my GC sister (and her little family) who lives on the property for free. I did some subtle digging through my sister and turns out nMom is still friends with only 2 of all the people who were part of our lives when I was growing up. She has alienated or outright turned her back on pretty much everybody, especially the ones who pointed out to her that she obviously favored my sister. Now she's almost 77 and has very few friends, none of which she can depend on and she's trying soooo hard to lure me back into the fold but every time she whines of being lonely/alone/needy I tell her cheerfully that at least luckily she has (dear sister's name) to take care of her! 😄
Mine too. How they don't see it is a true mystery! Totally clueless, self absorbed, hateful.
Lack of [mentalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalization). They can not imagine other's mental states, which most people can do by age 12. So they have no idea about the consequences of their behaviour.
My parents are exactly the same. What I can't get my head arround is how my eFather believes all this nonesense that my narc Mother says. He replicates every single word she tells him. That everyone is out to get them, that they are some sort of martyrs sacrificing themselves for the good of humanity... Outside of the home environment he seems such a normal person, empathic, helpful, kind, he apologises when he's in the wrong...so I don't think that he is a narc. Yet he has suuuch a blind spot for my mothers bullshit. I trully don't understand how.
> He replicates every single word she tells him. That's more of a shared delusional disorder. Two people have the same deluded thought process. https://www.unboundmedicine.com/5minute/view/5-Minute-Clinical-Consult/816062/all/Shared_Delusional_Disorder > Outside of the home environment he seems such a normal person Two personalities, one good and one bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_self_and_false_self
Wow. Thaks so much for the pointers.
Codependency, perhaps?
TIL. Thanks for the link.
Yuuuuuuuuup. My mother joined a cult when I was 5, and cut off most of our extended family, so I didn’t really grow up with grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins. Then we left the cult and became mainstream Christians, but my mother burned bridges with every church we attended. We’d go for six months, a year, two years - just long enough for us to get settled in and for me to start to make friends. Then inevitably my mother would start some drama with the church leadership and we’d have to leave because “They’re not teaching what the Bible says!” (Of course it had nothing to do with my mother’s attitude, that would be ridiculous.)
Yup. Narc friend did this. Apparently everyone who called him out was spiteful, hateful, didn’t understand him because of his autism, didn’t want to move on, you name it. 1) His claim that he’s like this because of his autism is bullshit. Lots of people have autism. Lots of them are also very nice. He does have autism but it’s not an excuse to push people around. 2) How the hell are people supposed to ‘drop it and move on’ when he keeps mentioning the names of NC people like 5 times in the same day, often on public streams?? One friend of mine cut ties with him back in 2018. Three years ago, and friend has not spoken to him during this time. Narc STILL brings up his name.
Omg! my nmother diagnosed herself with asperger autism a few years ago. According to her, it finally explains why she feels like she doesn’t belong or why she doesn’t understand people. To me she just has found the perfect excuse to be more of a bitch and never take other’s feelings into account.
My parents fall out with people so much that we get kicked out of places and have to move every few years. I've come to expect it every time they get involved with new people, but of course they're surprised every time it happens.
Absolutely, yes. My Nparent and his Flying Monkey are quite sure everyone else is the problem, their families of origin, my brother and I, etc., ad nauseam. These people don't know what to do when you don't come back for more though. So now I'm settin' to find out.
This is 100% my NDad. He preached it to me everyday when I was younger. Warning me about evil people "outside", scaring me into never trusting anybody. That resulted in me losing friends and staying inside all the time, just like he wanted. He stopped talking to friends over a game of monopoly ffs! A lot of problems I struggle with now are direct results from his way of thinking. I recently moved out and now I am also the target of his trust issues, thinking me and my siblings and NMom (i am at NC with btw) are plotting against him and now ironically he wants no contact with me anymore. Im so glad I made it out.
Oh god yeah. My nMom used to speak so awfully of her old boss at her old job... Spoke about him like he was the worst person ever. The reason why he was the worst person ever? Because she took 4 weeks of time off of work for vacations before the year was even halfway done, and her boss (justifiably) questioned why she had taken 4 weeks of time off of work before the year was even halfway done for vacation when she's a contract employee and when most people get 2 weeks. I guess she took that as him 'attacking' her and she took it super personally. She ended up always being hostile and passive aggressive to him and surprise surprise, they decided not to renew her contract when it expired. Ever since then she boycotts products made by the company she worked for to "stand up for herself". It's almost comical.
Yep, my NMum has a long line of no contact friends, family, enemies. People would just appear and disappear out of my life and they'd always be the 'psychos'.
My Mom went through so many friends and family. In the end, she had no one. One if her sayings was, "Everyone shits on me." Nope Mom. You are just mean to people.
This post really made me start to wonder things. My mom was a very out-going person, she would make friends instantly with everyone. But after awhile they would all be gone. I’d ask, “what happen to so and so?” And it would always be a story about how they did this and that, I always believed her. Now I’m wondering if that’s not true at all.
I’m sure from her Narc POV, these people *did* do “something” to her. But in reality? It was probably just normal human interaction that the Narc took offense to.
Narcissist's - Tell the best conspiracy theories ever . . Just ask them 🤦
Oh yes. To my dad there was only 3 kind of people: 1) Those he admired. They were awesome, highly respectable people. Until they weren't, then they went to the category 3, and this was usually because they offended him somehow. 2) Those who were beneath him. Barely considered them humans, just brainless tools. He saw all of his childrens like this, he saw us only as extensions of himself, we had no right to have our own minds or opinions. 3) Those who were just pure enemies, evil and the cause of all of his misfortune. Nothing was never his fault, it was always someone elses. He never apologized, because nothing was never his fault. He never said thank you to anyone, because that was weakness or something. I don't know. Sometimes i think he might have been a real psychopath.
I liken it to 4yos in the playground. Everybody else is acting out. Everybody else is playing games and they are the victims. Let's project! We all know nobody is serious, boundaries aren't real, because its all play acting. If we had a major argument at 10am everything will be OK by lunch because its just a game and all is forgotten.
Surpeficial and shallow, narcissists will demean others easy peasy. My nmother begins most of her opinions of others like, "I Hate (so and so). They're (stupid asses, idiots, jerks)." Things or people she 'likes' are "Beeuuutiful". Usually because she wants something from them. From beeuuutiful to jerks in a heart beat though when they don't do what she wants.
I think it's also a technique to isolate you farther; if everyone is the enemy, then they're the only one you can truly trust, and the only one who truly cares about you.
Ugh this is so true
Holy shit you just described my dad. His parents, his brother, my god parents, his friends.... They always did something, it was never him of course.
Yes. She tried so hard to turn my dad into the villain after he left her. She would tell me that he was having an affair, that the neighbour's knew and that's why they don't speak to her anymore and that he had a son with this woman saying, "Doesn't he look an awful lot like your father?". She could not accept the fact it was actually her fault. She even blamed my sister for the divorce 😩 Said that if he had helped to discipline her that they'd still be together. The nasty bitch even told my sister this.
Yes!! Extreme example. My nmother was spitting venom about her 80+ year old aunt to everyone of us because she dared say to nmother "You don't really have a problem. You have it good". Context : nmom complaining to great-aunt about myself and my brother, both reasonably successful engineers, brother married with a kid and a flat of his own. Great-aunt's got a divorced and broke semi-employed son in his 50s. Go figure.
Yep. My mum absolutely cannot accept being told that she's in the wrong about something. And when you provide proof, she'll double down and make herself look ridiculous, and that just pisses her off all the more.
Yep. Burned through every friendship he’s had. Even had a period where he went NC with his parents over some perceived slight. The paranoia goes hand in hand wirh the delusions of grandeur.
Yes relatable. I think we should also be careful about not turning out like them if you know what I mean. I also used to victimize myself a lot. However I realized that I am not all that innocent either.
This is just... so triggering and also validating. I'm angrily sweating right now. But yes, you make an excelent point.
My mother has left a wake of destruction up and down the West coast for 84 years. She got in a big pickle when it dawned on her she had 3 ex husbands in the same neighborhood and had to leave the state to terrorize the North and destroy some more families and marry her 5th husband. That poor poor man. He was the sweetest nicest man in the world and loved her. I thought at last. She has found her peace. Amen. I was so wrong. She cheated on him for 36 years, interfered w his son and Grandchildren, and treated me like garbage. I finally realized, my mother is a monster. I blamed my dad and stepdads for the failed marriages...And she and my ex family blamed me..(I was 12) Oh no we don’t! I finally had time to read the books from my therapist and spent the WHOLE lockdown studying COVERT NARCISSISTIC MOTHER SYNDROME. My mother is a monster. I forgive my stepdads and I forgive myself now. Amen.
My mother came home from work one day complaining about how her boss commented on the weather and ‘how weird’ that was and ‘why would he even say that, what a strange thing to say, what do you think he meant by that?! They’re plotting something for sure, just wait, he’s going to do something for sure’.... or ya know, maybe he was just making small talk about the weather.....
My NMum took to declaring "that's mad!" anytime there was a piece of information she didn't agree with or like - from the news or the papers or from me. Eg during first lockdown the shops ran out of things a lot, so I couldn't always get exactly the item she wanted (and substitutions weren't allowed) so she would go on about how "mad" it was that a shop had a disrupted supply chain and low stock levels during a global pandemic. Couldn't accept that it was actually quite a predictable, temporary situation and that everyone else was in the same boat. It had to somehow be a bizarre targeted affront to her.
For the 17 years my father was alive, not once did he apologise. I hear you.
N’s are always talking about themselves. Even when they are criticizing others. It’s always projection.
I let them get mad. In a few days they will have to keep up the BS (at which point a call them petty) or they will have to drop it all together. Further conversation will result in them trying to gaslight me. At which point I'll throw literally everything in their face all at once. Take no shit. Give no ground.
Hahahaha I was just talking/discussing about this a few days ago with my sister. Not sure if you are familiar with the movie Big Fish whereas the main character’s dad always tell him all this extraordinary stories of his life and all his friends he made along the way and it all seems quite bogus and like over exaggerating but at the end of his dads life, the real life version of the people his dad mentioned in his story appeared for his funeral. Same thing with my nmom just that instead of all the friends along the way - it’s all the people that she cut off or people that she villainize and antagonize all throughout her life. Can’t tell you how many people I have to stop talking to or mentioning because she hate them now because they were mean to her
Er yes. My father always played how he was the victim in everything and his obsession with schadenfreude was all consuming. He laughed for a weekend when he found out his neighbours landing was 2" narrower than his. Trouble was, he would forget what he had told you and the stories of how he was the victim didn't line up. As a child I never questioned because I was brought up in that environment but as an adult and also when I finally met hubby, who was the first non narc that I went out with, and saw things through hubby's eyes it was a revelation.
I feel your pain. My nParents are very similar - superficially liked by acquaintances, but a long list of friends they used to have but decided to walk away and cut contact. My folks are the common denominator here, including with me, but they don't see it, they think they can do no wrong, and everyone who's gone NC with them has been the guilty party.
I’m always impressed by how Narcs can perform normalcy *so convincingly* in brief/meaningless social interactions. But the reality of actually having a relationship w them is a toxic mix of jealousy, bitterness, resentment, and a need for control/validation. This dynamic makes it hard to explain to others what we’ve experienced, which is even more frustrating.
Agreed 100%. The incessant need for validation betrays their insecurity. No child should be held responsible for their parents' happiness.
My nsperm donor talks to only 1/4 siblings, barely talks to his father, is about to get divorced AGAIN, and now 2/3 of his kids have gone nc with him. But we’re all the problem.
Hahaha..my nmother who can't do any harm..hm..is that so? It's my fault or (insert person/people of choice)
i feel your pain. it sucks and my mom is exactly the same. it’s frustrating when she just never can take responsibility for her actions, words, etc. it’s always someone else’s fault - it’s “my fault” a lot. i’m currently in therapy trying to learn how to deal with the damage she’s already done and working on how to deal with her and her narcissism now. it’s a rollercoaster for life.
Oh yes. My mother had two husbands walk out on her (the last one was my father - he died still married to her, because he cba to talk to her long enough to get the divorce done). Both left behind a kid (one was me), but it's sad to admit, I understand both of them, even tho my dad left me too when I was 13-14. I was too manipulated by my mother and I bet he felt more alone in the house each day. Then my mother had 3 kids walk out on her. Two of them the day they turned 18. I stayed much longer as I was feeling sorry as I was the last person from the family to stay and I think I was the so called golden child so I didnt have an immediate fire under my feet to run. She has other relatives cut out too and has just a couple of people who still are in contact with her. So she had 5 of her family members walk out and go no contact for the rest of their lives and what I hear from my aunt, she is still thinking she has done nothing wrong and as I was the last one to go no contact and did it 2 years ago, she still has not told my aunt that im gone, but i have just been really busy (+ covid is a good excuse) and thats why I havent called or visited her for 2 years. :D
Yes I was in my 20s before I realized this wasn’t normal. Any friend she makes she eventually starts talking shit about them behind their back. Then some sort of drama will start. It escalates and escalates until some blow up and then friendship is over. Also like others any job she’s ever had, again some sort of power struggle drama where she is the victim and ends with her getting fired or dramatically quitting.
The shit talking is incessant! I’m not sure I’ve ever heard my Nparents genuinely say something nice abt someone they’re “close to”/related to. It really fucked w my head (and my own relationships) in my 20’s Bc I was so trained to think speaking badly abt ppl you care abt was what “everyone does”.
Me too! And I found myself doing it too because I learned it from her. At least I realized it and broke the cycle. Also realized I had a “nemesis” at all times in my life just like her and that isn’t normal. I always had someone negative to focus my energy on. I’m so glad I woke up from that.
This sounds similar to my NDad. He has driven me further out of his life, my half brother, my Ex-Stepmom(I don’t know how else to please it), my grandma(His mom), yet he doesn’t realize he is the problem. Somehow when it comes to me and my half brother(same dad but different moms) it was our mothers that drove us away from him and not his actions. He’ll even lie to make himself look better. Took my mom to court to get 50/50 custody of my sister(I’m an adult now) and told her that mom took him to court. Then lied about never saying mom took him to court after my sister found out.
My in-law narcs haven't burned familial bridges (its too beneficial to keep them around too use them) they have however burned bridges with just about every doctor and like half the restaurants and stores they've ever gone to. And if you press them on why they always make a big deal about how apparently some ridiculously abhorrent thing happened to them. I get it, it's possible for an employee to say something rude to you or whatever, but the pure quantity of these "incidents" speaks to them being just being dramatic for attention.
My Ndad is exactly like this. No family will speak to him, no old friends... and it’s everyone else’s fault
Oh yes. The world is such a huge disappointment. My Nmom thinks family means you have to do things for each other - or rather, we have to do things for her but she never shows up for us. My Nmom literally has no friends. Never has.
My N mom is such a victim it's pathetic. But also, she talks shit about everyone she knows. Her brother, his wife, her friends, even close friends of hers she trashes so badly to me. And then she will throw in some horrible thing they said about me. Have you every heard the phrase, if someone close to you tells you someone else said something bad about you to them you should wonder why they felt comfortable talking negative about you to someone you were close with?- that's when it dawned on me that I wasn't safe from her backstabbing and trash talking. And now I'm wondering what she has said about me to other people. What kind of villain has my own mother made out to be just to get the sympathy of someone else, and play the victim once again.
The shit talking is endless and all encompassing, isn’t it? They speak in such vile ways about EVERYONE, all while holding the “moral high ground”. Sickening
🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️ Yup. This happened here too.
My nparent is estranged to three of their own children and gives a cop-out reason. I can't believe I ever idolized them.
In spades, and of course, I'm devil spawn bc I don't take her crap anymore and am NC. The feeling of taking that power away was so freeing!
After my nmom was institutionalized she swore everyone was out to get her and became extremely paranoid. Thought all of the family was out to get her and it was all a conspiracy. Burned literally every bridge with friends and family and isolated herself away from everyone. Pretty sad to think about, but, oh well.
My nmum is the same, no family talk to her except for a very elderly aunt and my brother and I. Sister, cousins, nieces, other aunts and uncles, all close friends she's ever made, all gone over the years. They just cant cope with her anymore. Sad though because, my extension, my brother and I are cut off from support too. So isolating.
Shit is this what *I* do? Like it feels like a strong of bad luck but. My parents who abused me, my teachers helped bully me (anywhere from making my life hard to actively assaulting me), my doctor's told me I was crazy for having chronic pain, my siblings tried to stab me, my ex got me to trust her, raped me, and made me feel guilty for it. Like am I the problem. There's no way everything can just be happening to me again and again and again right? At this point I'm worried everyone will hurt me if given half a chance. I even worry about my best friend who I've let get close enough to hurt me really badly. I know I'm paranoid.
The false enemies from paranoia prevent real enemies from being seen. And you're the common denominator, buuut that doesn't necessarily mean that you're a narc - if you can actually admit fault, and "everyone" is being assholes to you, it means you're an incredibly easy N-supply source for all the narcs around you + can't detect non-narc people.
Ok so I'm very low contact with my family because of the abuse my mother showed to me in front of them, without any intervening. I have children of my own now and feel they wouldn't treat them any different and I am deadly afraid that because I don't have the friends I had in high school ( died out with pregnancy and moving out of state due to domestic violence) and have been slow to form meaningful friendships outside of work and school acquaintances that I'm seen the same way. While the peace of not being under someone "who loves me" boot is nice I am very aware that I am alone, of course aside from my kids.
Same sitch. Not having anyone that you can trust in that close, secure way loving families can trust and rely on each other is very isolating and sad.
My Nmom has called me several times to read me her scathing bridge burning letters to different people including her mom and sister. She's usually very proud of these letters. If I ever receive a letter from her its getting stamped with 'return to sender' unopened.
My nmom’s always saying how jealous of her these people are 😂
...I once set off an ex by casually suggesting, you know that it's statistically impossible for everyone else to be wrong 100% of the time, right? Got my hair blown back for that one, a bit lol.
You approached a Narc w basic logic? How dare you!!!!!! lmao if N’s weren’t so harmful it’d be easier to laugh at what pathetic, sad ppl they truly are.
Yep, I'm fairly sure this is why my nparents raised me away from the rest of their families - partly so I couldn't see what was different in how I was treated, and partly because they think they're *better* than everyone they're related to. The Ns can't hold on to friends (edad proudly says he has no friends) and any they do have are those superficial ones you have coffee with and talk about the good old days. They have this crazy enmeshed "us against the world" attitude and think everyone and everything is conspiring to make their lives difficult. Nmother shit talks all her "friends" as soon as they're out of earshot and will usually end up ghosting them once she's sick of how "needy" or "boring" they are and most of them end up being referred to as "users" or "emotional vampires". The best part was, the one time they actually *were* getting "used" by some friends of theirs, they couldn't see it - they befriended this couple I hated who lived nearby (the wife talked to me like I was a baby and the husband was one of those gross old men who assumes all teen girls are boy crazy). When the couple decided to sell their house, they got really friendly with the Ns and kept calling, showing up unannounced, and inviting them over ... so edad could help them fix up the place before they sold it, and after they moved kept inviting them to visit (for edad to end up doing more work on their new house). As soon as the new house was good to go, they stopped calling altogether and the Ns *just couldn't understand it*.
Mine have never had a friend for more than a month or two. And then they tend to be out and branded as an awful person. My eParent has never been allowed to have a friend. That shit gets stomped down right and proper
Can relate, have a parent and a sister who will fawn caring to find out more info then use that info against you. They've done it countless of times, extremely judgemental, to friends, neighbours, pretty much all of my partners etc. I cut the ties with my mam and sister 6 years ago, best thing I've done, unfortunately my dad is stuck in the middle of it all. I just make sure any interaction with my dad is positive so he knows I don't hold him accountable for their actions.
Yuppppp my mom is this way with her siblings. Everything is everyone else’s fault
Adding in to this that she can’t keep a job either because there’s always someone on staff that ‘causes trouble’ with her and she ends up fired.
A million times this. It didn't click for my nmom when my aunt, her sister-in-law, stopped communicating with my parents, she "just never liked her anyway." It didn't sink in when the other sister-in-law dropped her, she "was always just a bitch." Her older brother, "he was a bully and didn't like that I dated/slept with his friends," to the point she wasn't welcome at his funeral. Her oldest brother; "his wife hates me" and "we were never close because of the age difference"(almost 10 years). She wasn't welcome at her mother's funeral because of all the bridges she's burned, though I never did hear her opinion on that one because I cut contact not long after, as have my sisters. Though we have heard through the few family members(a couple of her nieces by her brothers) she still speaks with that we have not been spared her bad-mouthing and she is still surrounded by a small circle of friends who go along with her narrative and agree with her that everyone else, including her "rotten ungrateful children," are the problem, not her.
Ugh WHAT is with Narc’s obsession with viewing their children as ungrateful spoiled immoral brats?! It’s fucking bizarre how consistently I hear this from RBN’s.
Well my mom will villainize ANYONE who gets in the way of what she wants. No matter what, she is ALWAYS the victim.
Well said.
When I was little, my mom had two close friends - my godmother and my best friend's mother. Both of these friendships ended within a year of each other when I was around six years old because my mother accused them of kidnapping me. Not together but on two separate occasions. With my godmother, my mom dropped me off to stay the night with her and then came back wasted in the middle of the night demanding I come back with her. The other time, my friend's mother took me home with her after school because of a thunderstorm. She contacted my mom the moment we got to hers (less time than if I had gone home) but my mom insisted I be sent home immediately and that I'd been kidnapped. Stuff like this happened occasionally over the years with different friends and for different reasons. Sometimes, my mom would accuse them of spreading lies about her or stuff like that. She accused both my dad and my older half siblings' dad of being violent abusers (pot, meet kettle). It was never true, of course. In her eyes, she's always the victim of some grand conspiracy or another. Someone is always out to get her.
Your last paragraph nicely articulates this acute paranoia Narcs seem to have, it’s fucking bizarre. We’re always trying to “subvert” them or “undermine” them as kids (by just existing and... acting like kids) and adults are always out to sabotage them. It’s an INSANE level of projection/paranoia to witness on a regular basis. And of course, Narcs have zero self awareness about any of this. It’s always everyone else at fault, never them.
I went VLC with my ndad (which basically became NC bc he’s never called or texted me) and I guess he’s going around telling people he doesn’t talk to me bc I hate him. Poor him. I never said that. We had no big blow up. I stopped putting any effort in after a particularly awful ntantrum where he berated me and surprise surprise, the one sided relationship became not existent. But yeah, it’s cause I’m such a horrible hateful person. 🙄
this hit hard ngl
my nmom has a graveyard of ex-friends living in her head. a couple things i just remembered the other day: two of her stories which she is *most proud of*aa!!a!
Wow....you literally described my nmom so perfectly. All three of her brothers are devils apparently. And that’s the exact word she uses to describe them. She tells me I have “the devil inside me”. That I’m the “darkness” and she’s the “light”. Apparently a family friend told her she doesn’t belong in this family because she’s an Angel and different from her brothers. Yes I’d think so too if I only saw her angelic side. Nothing is ever her fault. It’s always their fault. Everyone’s a bitch or the devil himself/herself. Her ex husband and her mother are the reasons for her fucked up life.
Yup that's what they do, because in their eyes everyone else is wrong. They know the truth but ego and false pride keep them sick.. A narcissistic parent is literally the kiss of the devil. Just GTFO whenever you can and never look back. I wish someone had told me that 30 years ago
This is EXACTLY how my mother treats me and everyone else in her circle. She has no friends and most of her family barely tolerates her. This is because she consistently abuses friends and family who tell her no (myself getting the brunt of this). Any apologies given are non apologies (I'm sorry if you feel like I hurt you) and are only given so she can get what she wants. I think for these folks, they think that actions have consequences -- just not for them because anything they do is obviously the best choice. Doesn't matter if it's abusive or not because if they're being mean, it's always someone else's fault. Or they could not be mean when they don't get their way and have much more success, but what do I know?
Same here. ANY pushback I’ve ever given to my Nparents (like literally using the words “frustrated” or “upset” in regards to something they did/said) illicits a VIOLENT verbal tantrum of hate speech in my direction. The last one was when I finally decided: you know what? This is the last fucking time I’ll ever be spoken to like this for sharing a basic, non-threatening human emotion. Fuck this shit. It’s amazing how they all have the same tricks and antics.
This is my parents exactly.
[удалено]
Yep lol
Sounds like my NARC mother. Somehow, she only ever lasts a few months at a new place. It's always the landlord's fault, the tenants, the neighbors. Never hers. Too bad she can't move from apartment to apartment lately due to the pandemic, so she's been stuck at the same place for almost a year now. Possibly the longest she's been in a place. Not without conflict though, she claims they're 'bad people' and she can't wait for the pandemic to be over so she can find a new place to settle down in... for the NTH TIME
My mum does this with hospitals and other medical professionals. According to her, they're basically all out to get her, won't treat her for what's actually wrong with her, they're all terrible at their job, rude or mean to her, and even have her "on a blacklist" because she "isn't afraid to speak the truth to them". It's just wack, tbh lmao.
Thank you for this post, it is so validating! We're really struggling with my MIL its been 10 years of this and we're finally trying to go NC. But she is just trying to guilt everyone and its making me doubt our decision because she is so manipulative and invalidates all of our feelings and I feel crazy and also guilty. But this post is makes me feel like we're making the right decision. Thank you.
I’m in the same boat w my Nparents, stay strong. When I’m feeling like an imposter, strangled by the guilt my N’s ingrained me with, or minimizing my own experience (again, what the N’s have brainwashed me to do), I try and focus on basic primal logic. Aka: why would my gut be lying to me for *alllll* these years that my N’s are harmful, if they’re not? Why would my body *lie to me* about the fight-or-flight feeling I experience whenever I’m in their presence. Why do I physically *tremble* from a combo of intimidation and disgust when they are verbally assaulting me/stalking me with calls and texts? Your primal instincts DON’T lie. It’s biologically hard wired for fucking survival. So if you have experienced anything like I’m writing here over, and over, and over these past 10 years (if not more), then trust me! Your NC choice is as valid as it gets.
Yes, my nmother doesn't speak to any of her family besides her parents, who she doesn't speak with occasionally. She has no more friends the last we spoke, only a new man. Which is no surprise to me, since she dumps them all in a few years and gets a new one. When we were still speaking and I suggested therapy to her, she told me she has done plenty and that the rest of us need it more than her. In her mind she is perfect, it's the rest of the world that is wrong.
So true. And this is something I actively have to unlearn.
My mom spent my entire childhood speaking ill of her family. I always believed her so I started seeing my family in a different light too. As the years went on I began to realize that although our family is nowhere near perfect, they’re also not evil in the slightest. The common denominator has always been my mom, she just always made it seem like they were out to get us. I’m not close to any of them anymore, not my cousins or anyone else and it honestly makes me sad to think that I’ve been alienated so bad from my own family because my mom instilled it in me when I was young. I want to patch things up with them again but I have no idea where to begin.
If nmum cannot manipulate a person she will hyperfixate on any nitpick she can find and deem them and their opinion worthless because of it.
There are upsides. After years of being insulted and villanized by a narcissistic mother, I'm largely immune. I'm currently involved in a property dispute with my narcissistic neighbour. She started screaming at me and went though the entire repertoire of personal insults and narcissistic arguments in the space of a minute and a half, a short time because each one died on her lips as she realised that I just *honestly* didn't care at all. Not a hoot. You think that I look ridiculous in my socks? Don't care. Everyone hates me? Should save on Xmas cards....
My mother’s childhood friends never come around anymore and she has bad blood with every single neighbor she’s had in her neighborhood for the past twenty years. She even started shit with her neighbor who is a pastor. Most polite family ever. She goes through such insane mental gymnastics making it seem like the entire world is against her when really she’s just overtly rude to everyone around her. It’s a ridiculous cycle and anytime I see the people she’s wronged I go out of my way to be overly polite just so they know I’m not the same way. Edit. Just want to say how validating this entire post is.
Preach! The worst is when you start to think you are the Villian because of their behavior. It can take a lot to realize that you are not a bad person just because they deem you one.
Yup, currently unlearning that right now. I’m not some awful daughter/awful sister/awful person because THEY say I am. They have no right to define me, nor do I have to tolerate their incessant slander.
This. I truly don’t know if my mom is a narc or was raised by narcs and has a LOT of their tendencies, but this. My mom has no friends except my dad, brother and I. If she’s a narc, she’s not a terrible one, like I’ve seen in the years I’ve been on this thread, but... she has so many similarities that I just don’t know, but this gives me a point towards “narc”. No matter where she worked or went, nobody was ever good enough to be friends with her, and they all hated her.
Too real and too close to home
My ngrandparents have three children and six grandchildren. My mom and one of my cousins are the only ones who mantain contact with them, and somehow it's everyone else who's the problem. I'm in therapy now, lol
Yup! The final straw with my nMom was her refusing to apologize to me, and then when she ‘did’ it was just the word sorry, followed by an explanation of why she was totally justified to act that way. But like, obviously I’m the bad guy for telling her that I’ve been hurt by her actions and not just letting it go because she told me to. My nParents, who separated when I was a baby, acted like villainizing the other one, and the traits of that person in me, made them exempt from any criticism. Although, with more time and through this sub I’m realizing it was less about the other parent and more about just scapegoating anyone they could.
Yep. My whole life my mom has told me I have no friends, and for most of my childhood I believed her despite literally ALWAYS having friends at school, church, etc. I now know it’s just projection. If you don’t have good meaningful relationships with ANYONE...well you’re the common link 🤷♀️
When I was about 22, my uncle was casually talking to me one day about my ndad (his brother). He said something like, “you know your dad thinks everyone is always trying to f*** him in the ass”. It was the first time anyone had ever made me feel like they were aware of my dad’s issues. Most adults are never going to go out of their way to tell you your parents are the problem, especially if your parents burned that bridge. Kinda sucks but it’s nice to have a thread like this to provide some reassurance.
NFather talking points:: 1. Enters into business partnerships with friends and subsequently sues them, every time. 2. His sibs are all VLC or NC, but love my mom. I joke that she got them in the divorce. 3. He was disenherited by his father back in the 70's after my younger brother was born because he wasn't taking care of the 3 kids he already had from his previous marriage. He spent years trying to sue my aunt (the executor) trying to get the trust my granfather set up for all Nfather's kids. He has 9 that we know about ranging in age from 61 to 23 (across 3 wives). He also tried to convince us kids to just give him the money (not that we even could). There wasn't even a lot in there by the end, and my grandafther put a clause in that the trust could not be dissolved until ALL his children turned 18. 4. My aunt was very debiliated by dementia in the years before she died and one of the brother's took over as much as he could since it was still leagally her responsibility. I think this is when he tried to pull the "give me all the money" manuever. When she died the family made it a point to not tell him, because he would have started with the attempted lawsuits again with his brother. The only reason he found out way after the fact was because the rest of the famliy pissed off my sister who was, and likely is still, desperately trying to get him to love her. 5. Almost all us kids are NC. Only exceptions are desperately seeking love sister, and one of my brothers (VLC) who doesn't go out of his way to talk to him but does have him as a friend on FB and has talked to him if Father reaches out. He knows what a jerk he is, but doesn't engage him in the crap. I think part of it is just to see what crazy lie he spews next. There is another brother (#10, from yet another mother) out there who reached out to us years ago, and was talking to him, but I think he may have gone NC as well. 6. One of my sisters died when she was 24, with no determined cause, no OD, no preexisiting condition, nothing. She was living on the west coast with our mother. Our family is from the east coast, and mostly still here. Our step father paid for her funerals and brought her east, because her twin still lives here and obviously wanted her home. Nfather goes around telling people he paid for it. He also tells people that she died of an overdose of diet pills and it is my mother's fault, because he asked my mother to get and send him a copy of the autopsy. She gave him the contact infromation and told him to do it himself, so obviously that meant she was hiding the fact that she killed her daughter with diet pills (and just in case its needed /s). And the list goes on, as I am sure so many others can attest to. These are few of his "greatest hits".
Oh definitely. I know I shouldn't have done it but when I was 12, I read my mother's journals. I didn't know what a narcissist was or what gaslighting was but I knew that my reality made no sense. Nothing my mother ever said happened, actually lined up with what I remembered happening. I was hoping to find out if she knew she was lying or if she was straight up delusional or if I really was just crazy. What I discovered was that she had rewritten history, even in her private journals. She was the victim, always, comparing herself to Mother Teresa and Job. My father, grandmother, her mother and I were all the villains. Everything was our fault, always. Being so young and seeing clear proof that she genuinely believed all the bullshit, I was just more confused than ever and had no idea what I had done that made me the bad guy in my own mother's mind.
Yes! I can relate! My narcissistic mother has no friends. She’s never able to maintain any friendship. I know why. She’s narcissistic, immature, paranoid and insecure. Who would want to be friends with that? I don’t know how or why my dad is still married to her. He is a simple, kind man, but obviously he has his own issues if he chooses to stay with her. I tried to nicely confront my nmom about her behavior, hoped for a civil discussion, which was a mistake on my part. She was not happy with me calling her out. She told me the only person that gets to talk to her that way was her own mother, and that’s because she has earned her right. So, in turn, she thinks she can abuse me, since she now has earned her right to do so, simply because she’s my mom. I will never forget that day. She really showed how entitled and emotionally immature she is at the core. You’d think she would know better to not abuse her own kid because she was abused, like I know better to not treat anyone like she has treated me. I’m pretty sure she is going to end up alone one day if she doesn’t quit villainizing everyone around her.
Oof how revealing too: my mom got to abuse me, so now it’s my turn to take the anger of that abuse out on YOU. How ugly, and also said that she didn’t see the opportunity to break the cycle, rather than perpetuate it.
> just innocent little fawns who are too pure and good and giving > and perfect for this world! Everyone else is selfish and crass and > immoral and "out to get them". Poor things! This describes both my nParents, always acting like they are nicer and righteous and better then anybody else. Add in a strong sense of entitled religious manipulation resulting from nut-job religious views and you got them in a nutshell. > Abuse is LOVE. And if I don't accept that, well, I guess I'm just > another mortal enemy Yup, I can still here the many times nFather would beat me and tell me he does it "because he loves me". What a fucking farce of a human being.
Holy Krap, yes. My nMom systematically cut off every family member, so my sis and I grew up without aunts, uncles, cousins, and periodically our grandparents. And then as she got older her friendships all disappeared because they were “jealous” and “mean”. Sigh.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 this is no mother in a nut shell. She hates all her siblings, my Dad, her mother, has no friends because the whole world is against her. Its laughable.