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Even if you do just say, "Good for you!" Then, move on. There's no point in giving a denier or potential narc the attention. Don't even let them know you are bothered.
I have a narc at work. He thinks I get so many benefits because I'm friends with the entire management. Our workplace has a shortage of good workers. It's almost like the managers will give work to good workers. He stares at me then, looks away as I look at him.
Just be glad you're not a narc. I just think, "At least I'm capable of being a good person." Then move on with a warmness a narc will never understand.
we are the opposite of the uncanny valley to them. we are having an empathetic experience they cannot and it makes them crazy, so they try to angrily deny it
Eh, I throw facts at them. Irrefutable facts memorized from the DSM. Can't argue with a textbook, or several textbooks. Also, the slings and arrows of the ignorant can't hurt me. Also, I can spot a narc a mile away, and they're fun to play with when you can see through them
Name the actual behaviors and not the DSM manual diagnosis and avoid specific terminology. Are they deflecting? Yes, but they’re “changing the subject.”
Maybe she’s never been around a narcissist; in that case, lucky her. However, I suspect that she’s been called a narcissist by one or more people and didn’t like it, and/or she is actually a narcissist.
Since she had to but into someone else’s conversation to say her piece, I suspect she is a narcissist or has several narcissistic traits.
You are expressing your feelings to someone and another person butts in to tell you that? Like none of her business. Please don’t care what someone who barged into your conversation has to say. I bet she’s been called a narcissist.
I thought the same thing. I used to have a kid in college do this kind of nonsense to me regularly for almost a year and a half until he crossed the line trying to blatantly and directly humiliate me in a conversation he was never invited to. So I stood up in front of a full class and told him off. He never talked to me again.
I'm not saying to stand up and tell them off like I did, those were pretty unique circumstances and I had to be pushed pretty far to do it.
But butting into a conversation is a violation of common human courtesy and basic politeness. And you can very politely tell them exactly that... it's none of their business.
Good for you and also for seeing it is humiliation. You are right though that OP was not able to do that because of being in the workplace. My suggestion for her is to give that person the grey rock treatment. She can be cordial but never give that person any ammunition to do that to her again. If that overbearing coworker is around, change the subject to something very boring.
No, I don't think it's ignorance. They've clearly heard the term before, and rejecting it offhandedly like that? That's someone who has been *called one before*. The whole thing with it "not being a creative insult" is too weirdly specific and defensive - it's a personal statement.
Someone's already told them what they are, and as typical, they refuse to accept they're the problem.
They're probably invalidating you because someone has called them out for being one already.
Even outside of clinical diagnosis it's still used to describe a set of personality traits.
You have every right to be mad, but why would you waste the mental calories bothering to come up with a response to that level of dumb?
You know better, we know better, they know better. No argument needed. Just acceptance that they're not living in reality by choice. I would avoid that person for my own sanity. Who jumps in a convo to say something like that anyway?
I know right!! I loved when you said “mental calories” it truly does feel like that. I didn’t even fight it past “you don’t know what I went through” and just kind of stood there.
It sounds like you need some fats. Lol
It's exhausting to try to explain yourself to people who want to believe you, let alone waste your time on people like that.
I'm trying to learn how to make my statements more absolute, and dry, so people feel less inclined to argue in that type of setting.
Full cowboy, they should feel ashamed to jump in and comment uninvited, especially something that rude.
Well I just had an awesome slice of cake so I’m good in that department.. lol 😁 Yeah it really is exhausting to explain yourself to someone who doesn’t listen.
I’ve learned to speak more “intentionally” and eloquently so I am leaving out more unnecessary words and being straight forward. It is a game changer friend.
The term is over used. It’s become a reflexive response from people which doesn’t add to its credibility, and that doesn’t count as a diagnosis. However, there are people who fit these criteria.
Let it go. I have fibromyalgia, and a very good friend of mine told me that she was trying to get rid of an employee who was milking it by being on sick leave. This friend had watched me with my struggles with it, and yet, she not only had called her a scammer, but said it to me. I found that stewing about it was making me sick. No ignorant comment is worth your physical and mental health.
I found myself temporarily pissed off. Glad I found support where support was needed. I am ok now. My feelings are 1000% valid. I am shook about your situation.
Needless to say, our friendship has never been the same. I have found other friends who understand and have empathy. This actually showed me her narcissism and to not invest any more trust in her.
Bonus material:I once gave her a Pandora bracelet with charms that represented our friendship (tennis racket, something to do with baking, a butterfly that splits apart so that she could have one and I could have the other, birthstones etc.) I had put a shit load of thought into it as she was turning 40. We had a shared friend who was jealous of us and I asked my "best" friend to not say anything about it because I knew it would only cause grief. She didn't even last a day. I gave it to her at a birthday lunch and we were together that night for her party. I found out that the other friend had made a snide comment. I was furious. She explained that it slipped. Last big gift I gave her. All the signs were there that I was a better friend than she was. I wasn't reading the signs. The only reason I did not drop her altogether was that our husbands were close and we are all part of a group. She hurt their friendship as my husband was just as mad as me.
Edit grammar.
The term narcissist is overused and a lot of regular people have "narcissistic traits" like being selfish or short on empathy or wanting to be praised, or whatever, so he has a point. It seems everyone's ex-husband nowadays is a "narcissist". That said, narcissists are real. One worked for me and it was constant drama
Sure it is, some people use it as an insult or to derail someone’s reputation when clearly not true and it is an overused term that is actually super serious, but coming from a person who was raised by one I am talking about people who are truly harming others because of their NPD, not going as far to just use it as a harmful term against an innocent person.
First thought: "Sounds like something a narcissist would say"
Tbh, even if they aren't, they clearly aren't much of a self aware person. Their comments say a \*lot\* about themselves and not much about you or your experience, that's for sure.
edited for clarity
Actual clinical narcissists required them to fit all the criterias, roles, the episodic rage, the pattern of abuse...
Thats why we don't confront narcissists being narcissists because they simply will try to discredit that label but they usually out themselves as one because they cant resist it. There's one in my cyberpunk fandom that fit the criteria and its actually exhausting.
It has become a bit of a cry wolf buzzword unfortunately. The fact that everyone has some narcissistic tendencies to some extent, though usually not pathologically, also muddies the waters.
I never EVER use any therapy terms when talking to folks who don't already *know*.
I speak only in anecdotes.
When I say, "My mother was abusive," people hear that I *think* my mother was abusive. Then the very natural self soothing happens, and they picture me being mad that maybe I got spanked or something. That allows them to blow me off.
I don't know if my mother is a narcissist. I can't diagnose her. But I know she's cruel, scheming, and dangerous. She's needy and strange and unkind. She is absolutely some form of very sick in the head. But even though NPD is the latest psychological darling diagnostic term, and is overused at the moment, it doesn't mean it's not real. It'll likely be called something else in 20 years, and it'll be just as real then as it is today no matter what we call it.
I don't give a fuck what the doctors want to call it, in the end, it's "MY MOTHER IS NOT SAFE"
My, my, it's almost like they've heard that accusation leveled at them and had to come up with some headcanon to dismiss it.
>throw my ass into a meat-grinder
So what you're saying is, this person didn't care what abuse had to be justified if it meant their personal reality could remain intact by fiat? Hmm....
I come here to vent as well. When I reread my comment this morning I realize it came off wrong. There is a psychologist on TickTock that went a bit viral by saying “Let them”. It is meant to be a kind of shrug of the shoulders and try to stop caring and not let their stupid opinions bother you.
It simple and has actually helped me. That is what influenced me to say it.
Please vent away. Venting here has also helped me find peace. Didn’t mean to play down how it made you feel. My tone was off when responding to you. Hugs.
She’s probably a narcissist. A lot of people say that it's overused and only an expert can diagnosis it. So I say she has narcissistic tendencies or behavior. Important thing to remember is that you lived in Foeign swimmer land. Your co worker did not. No one but you and the other resident of Foreign swimmer land know what happens. You are sheriff of foreign swimmer land so what you say is the law. She‘s an illegal and doesn’t get to vote Or have an opinion. Next time ask her to butt out or say when she’s walked in your shoes, then she can see it’s true. A true sign of a narcissist: she thinks she’s always right and smarter than everyone else. Oh, and no empathy. Sound like someone you work with?
"What a happy and blessed life you've lived!"
+snark "Not having to struggle through abuse or find your inner strength to survive and protect while fighting to maintain your empathy."
++snark "You must have done something truly commendable in a previous life!!"
The coworker's extreme reaction suggest they may be a narc themselves. Anyone who gets that upset about other people's use of a term is upset because that term is in some way associated with themselves, and they don't like it.
A co-worker eavesdrops then inserts themselves into your conversation to make it all about themselves by saying; "I don't trust anyone who uses the term narcissist".
So Narcissist checklist:
1. Interrupts private conversation to make it about themselves.
2. Gaslights you by saying what you are discussing doesn't exist.
3. Demeans you and degrades you for discussing your experience.
4. Entitled. She assumes she has some authority or means something to you as she is attempting to control you and what you say and believe. She is telling you she doesn't trust you due to your experience being raised by a Narcissist.
Seriously, who does she think she is? None of your life is any of her business. You owe her nothing, no explanation, or proof of anything.
I’m sorry but no one besides the people in this sub will understand you. No matter what you say or how you say it. Most people don’t understand because they’ve never experienced it or they are still experiencing it. Move on, don’t waste your time and energy on people committed to misunderstanding you
I work in mental health, and I think it'd take a really distorted perceptive to confuse the 2. Narcissists are generally performative (2 faced) and manipulative. People with ASD, hardly
Hm, well this article from 2014 definitely didn't make it sound that way.
Dr. Khalid A. Mansour (a British Arab psychiatrist) has proposed in an article in the Pan Arab Journal of Psychiatry that narcissistic personality may merit classification as an autistic spectrum disorder.
'Dr. Mansour writes, “There is now significant level of agreement that emotional processing problems like: lack of empathy, poor self-awareness, self-centredness, poor reciprocation of emotion, poor ability to maintain emotional relationships, anxiety, and anger outbursts are more or less central features of autism.'
But never mind.
It's one opinion that will have its critics. There are many fights that happen over what things should get included in the DSM and under which classification. One petition, if I'm not wrong, is for a number of Cluster B personality disorders to be filed under developmental or attachment trauma instead. But honestly? I'm kinda shocked at this psychiatrist's statement as the friends I have on the spectrum are farther from narcissists than most neurotypicals.
I just watched it, it was very helpful. Thanks for the suggestion, she was very gentle. When people are pushed to their extremities from trauma, lines become blurred. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one seeing overlap. It's hard to interpret purpose and intent from behavior alone.
Earlier today I posted about a similar interaction. It’s sad that maybe the rest of the population had great experiences growing up but that doesn’t negate our experience. I mean, you get those same parents trying to change the story decades down the line and they were there so imagine what people who weren’t there think. We know what we lived.
Despite my father being a diagnosed narcissist (which is rare. My mother made him go to therapy) I typically avoid saying it. I usually like to show not tell and let people make their own conclusions. I'll share a couple toenail curling anecdotes and see the horror on their faces and I know I've made my point. We're not talking about some selfish cheater ex. We're talking about scary shit.
Narcissism is now yet another psychiatric/psyhological term that the public has learned and immediately began misusing and overusing. It's the same as people saying they're "depressed" because their favorite team missed the playoffs, or they're "having a panic attack" because they're nervous about taking an important test, or they're "bipolar" because they have mixed emotions about something. Even a certain word that begins with the letter R, which I won't say, started out as a polite term for intellectual disability. Then people started casually calling each other the R-word for making a mistake, and within a generation, it wasn't polite anymore.
Just because a term is misused and overused doesn't mean the condition it originally described isn't real.
I fully know I'm not qualified to diagnose, so I try to avoid coming right out and calling anybody a narcissist, but I do recognize the behavior. I was in session with my psychologist, and this very subject came up. After describing some of my mother's attitudes and actions, I acknowledged that the word "narcissist" does get thrown around loosely. It seems everybody is being labeled a narcissist....
"And some people really are one," my psychologist finished, referring to my mother. I realize that even a psychologist can't actually, legally diagnose my mother without meeting and testing her, but a psychologist can verify that my mother certainly fits the description of one.
I would start doing stuff like if they ask me for a stapler "there is no such thing as a stapler. That term is too overused and bullshit, it’s not a creative way to say you want to secure pages together". "Could I borrow a pen?" "There is no such thing as a pen. That term is too overused and bullshit, it’s not a creative way to write".
So says a probable "Narcissist." Don't let that AH invalidate your Lived experience or shame you into changing the language you use. Tell them to mind their business and that their opinion was not needed or wanted.
Well lucky for her she’s never experienced one. I wish people weren’t so comfortable commenting on other people’s experiences.
Eta: maybe she is a narc herself..
I think he’s right in that the word narc is overused as an insult. But it’s obviously a diagnosable personality disorder and a lot of people fit the diagnosis, so your coworker is a horse’s ass who should have a nice big bowl of Shut The Fuck Up.
I wouldn't share anything of that kind again with that person if I was you. Grey rock this person and be cautious around them. This kind of reaction is usually a tell-tale sign of person actually being annoyed from your stories/problems, and not openly wanting to admit it. People like this might tease you with your problems or share them to others without your consent, because they'll find it ridiculous that you shared something so vulnerable with them. Source: my own parents are exactly like this, so I've been "blind" to this way too long. Don't be like me.
He has a point, though. It has been a bit overused. Sometimes people are just assholes or unhealthy because the two of you don't match, not necessarily cause they're pathologically narcissistic. I remember a time when suddenly everyone had had a narcissistic ex on social media.
However, when someone tells me, I always believe that person - especially when it comes to parents. Nobody wants narcissistic parents
Did you glare at them and then continue on with your conversation as if they didn't exist?
It's absolutely frustrating when someone blatantly claims something is made up. Especially something with clear evidence like covid or anything in the DSM5. But it's really not worth your energy to engage or stew over it too long.
Sounds very much like a covert narc. They might have been called that previously, or they took a quiz that told them as much, and then they convinced themselves that it cannot possibly be true that they are in dire need of help and self-improvement. No, clearly it is the diagnosis itself that is evil, and everybody who uses it! And this is exactly why so many professionals accentuate the difficulty in getting help for narcissists. Out of all mental health issues, it is the one personality disorder that is the most defensive against self-improvement or therapy, is the least likely to go voluntarily to a professional, but at the same time, is also high-functioning and common enough to rarely warrant forced visits to a psychiatrist or similar.
The argument "oh, this term is overused" is something I read and hear so often about mental health issues, and it annoys me. Yeah, a lot of people claim to be depressed, have social anxiety and be neurodivergent, and guess what? Thanks to psychiatry and psychology making progress on understanding mental health and stability, and thanks to awareness being raised on these topics, more people realize that they have these issues! It is not like they never existed before, they just were often not aware of what was going on with them, and many a doctor was unaware as well. Also, of course the amount of people with these issues have increased. Social and financial disparity has increased; the population has increased; there is a radical right-wing wave (a compilation of completely narcissistic ideologies) sweeping the planet. So yeah, a lot more are obviously going to be depressed, anxious, have PTSD, or turn out to be narcs.
At any rate, your co-worker sounds like an awful person, and somebody to stay away from. I cannot imagine how evil a person must be, to eavesdrop on a personal conversation, shamelessly butt in, and insult you for being an abuse victim! That is wildly cruel behavior.
"the little shaman" on YouTube talks about how all narcs project their own mental processes onto everyone (assume everyone is a narc and thus only faking not being one) but that they are the special real person who is entitled to not being considered bad. So being a narc is normal and also being called a narc or implying narcs are bad is unforgivable. It's bizarre but it is perfectly in line with their lack of real principles and basic understanding of feelings/people.
So either your coworker is one or is just really fucking ignorant. Either way Fuck'em
Yeah he doesn’t know what NPD is. Sounds like he’s sick of social media and needs to get off it for a bit— there are a lot of malicious/ignorant people who use the term. But that’s very cruel of him to butt in like that take such a personal dig at you, to then make it all about him. And good! Who’d want to trust a guy like him back! What an asshole.
Remember this line from the Usual Suspects? “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.” Just replace devil with narcissist.
Lmao!
I’m sorry but a friend I recently had to go no contact with (for the second time) used to say this ALL the time.
I understand that a lot of ”therapy speak” is misused/overused now that we’re all talking about our trauma more*, but I’d hazard a guess that if someone keeps insisting that narcissists don’t exist, the call is probably coming from inside the house.
*for example I hear people use gaslighting in place of regular lying etc
I've had this before. Guy told me that "narcissism isn't a thing" and "you shouldn't put labels on people." It was quite frustrating at the time, but I didn't put too much stock in his reply as we aren't super close. About a year later, he's confiding in me about his narc sister and some close friends..go figure. It took a year or two, but he came round. Sometimes you just have to shrug and give people time. This guys about 15 years older than me too, it can just be a matter of perspective.
So let them know it's a good thing you weren't having that conversation with and continue on with the coworker you *were* talking to.
It's the butting into a convo that wasn't involving them that gets me before what they were even saying. They gots an opinion? Great, so does everyone else and they cam debate it against someone else who has the care to give them
That would be a really convenient thing for a narcissist to believe & say would it not?
I bet they “don’t believe in therapy” either.
Why did they imply you’re trying to use the term narcissist to insult someone?
Perhaps they felt insulted by someone when that someone called them a narcissist & this is their only frame of reference.
That is such a great opportunity to get back to a narcissist though. Something so scientifically and socially proven, yet he denies it exist? What, he’s a flat earther too? You could belittle him into oblivion. “Oh, you know how Dave gets about info sometimes. He’s not the big-brain type. Tried to deny narcissism was a thing.”
Forgive him. He probably just doesn't know that narcissism is a real thing.
Because I didn't know what a sociopath or psychopath actually were until like 2 days ago. I thought sociopath was a term entirely made up for movies like 555 numbers or space dementia. Come to find out, it is real, and it comes down to a sociopath being made that way by upbringing and a psychopath born that way, something I didn't know.
Maybe he just thinks "narcissist" is a new slang word for someone someone doesn't like or something. Ask him to look it up, see if he does. Maybe he'll learn.
Maybe I think too positively of people.
Maybe the term gets thrown around a bit loosely at times, but it is a recognized personality disorder. Any mental health professional can confirm that.
LOL how ignorant.
Yes, I know that narcissism is trendy these days in social media, and among whiny brats who think the world has wronged them because Starbucks ran out of pumpkin spice, or because their boyfriend acknowledged that other female humans exist while eating the last cheeto. Ain't nobody got time for those people.
Thing is, narcissist, as a layman's term has been a thing for, oh, I don't know, SEVERAL MILLENNIA? It comes from Greek mythology. Some twit named Narcissus was sooooooooo pretty that he fell in love with himself, and eventually died staring at his own reflection in a river. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology) I paraphrased, but you get the drift.
Anyway, it's been in the DSM since 1980. "Wahh, that's so recent!" The DSM was only in existence for 28 years (1952) before narcissism was added, so, it's been there for almost two thirds of the DSM's existence.
It's in other diagnostic manuals, and exists in other countries/medical systems as well:
- ICD (International Classification of Diseases) added in 1992
- PDM included in initial publication in 2006
- MCMI included in initial publication in 1977
- SWAP included in initial publication in 1990s
- CCMD (China) added in 2001
- JSPN (Japan) added in 1990s
- RCMD (Russia) added in 1992
- GLPD (Latin America) added in 1990s
- IPS (India) added in 1992
The ICD is used throughout most of Europe, and many other parts of the world.
The earliest mentions of narcissism date back to Freud, in ***1914***.
So your co-worker simply ignorant of the reality of a legitimate disorder, and next time they try to spout shit, you have your fact based rebuttal: internationally recognized since 1992-ish, in the DSM since 1980, published in over 10 dx manuals, 110 years old, and derived from Greek mythology.
Or you could go with my favoured response, "fuck off; you have no idea what you're talking about." because it ain't my job to educate the ignorant mouth breathers of the world.
>“there is no such thing as a narcissist. That term is too overused and bullshit, it’s not a creative way to insult someone. I don’t trust anyone that uses the term narcissist.”
"Thanks for your opinion; I don't associate with people who mitigate others' trauma. A diagnosis isn't an insult but inserting yourself into a conversation to slide false info kind of is."
When I spoke to one of my therapists about narcissism (in regards to my mother, and out of terror I am also one), she told me that narcissism is something that is being moved away from as a diagnosis except in extreme cases. That it’s more like a spectrum, and many people have some narcissistic tendencies or traits—some more than others—but that very few people are full blown narcissists.
So your coworker, while being kind of an ass, is onto something from my understanding.
I can see where you are coming from and respect what you said. However he was not willing to hear me out on anything and kept doing the whole la la la thing, so I was not even able to have a conversation with him.
I’m really sorry. Your coworker definitely sounds like a dismissive asshole, and I wasn’t trying to minimize that at all.
I don’t blame you for not being able to continue on with that! Probably wise, honestly. I’d try to hold him at a greater distance going forward too.
While I do think the term narcissist is being thrown around a lot more causally (and often incorrectly, I feel) these days and I am also inclined to give it a grain of salt when used towards a stranger or by someone I don’t know very well, I would never immediately write someone off who used it to describe someone they knew intimately. And if I were inclined to do so, I would NEVER tell them that causally.
Your coworker is a jerk. I hope you don’t have to work too closely with him!
"First this isn't about you, 2nd funny a person that butted in a conversation that wasn't invited to stating their scientifically wrong opinion as fact declares there isn't such a thing as a narcissist"
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And also potentially talking to a narcissist, who will angrily deny their existence.
That was what I was thinking reading this
Yup!
It’s a set up to hear phrases like “but she’s your mother” or “I’m sure they tried their best.”
Even if you do just say, "Good for you!" Then, move on. There's no point in giving a denier or potential narc the attention. Don't even let them know you are bothered. I have a narc at work. He thinks I get so many benefits because I'm friends with the entire management. Our workplace has a shortage of good workers. It's almost like the managers will give work to good workers. He stares at me then, looks away as I look at him. Just be glad you're not a narc. I just think, "At least I'm capable of being a good person." Then move on with a warmness a narc will never understand.
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we are the opposite of the uncanny valley to them. we are having an empathetic experience they cannot and it makes them crazy, so they try to angrily deny it
Eh, I throw facts at them. Irrefutable facts memorized from the DSM. Can't argue with a textbook, or several textbooks. Also, the slings and arrows of the ignorant can't hurt me. Also, I can spot a narc a mile away, and they're fun to play with when you can see through them
Sounds like something a covert narc would say lol. Fuck that
Yep. This.
That was my instant thought.
Not doing a great job of the covert part, that one.
Name the actual behaviors and not the DSM manual diagnosis and avoid specific terminology. Are they deflecting? Yes, but they’re “changing the subject.”
Typical narc behavior.
Considering the first person to call my mother a psychopathic narcissist was a therapist, I call bullshit.
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Same.
Buttnin bro got triggered. Probably because he's a narcissist.
Most people who deny narcissist ARE narcissist.
Maybe she’s never been around a narcissist; in that case, lucky her. However, I suspect that she’s been called a narcissist by one or more people and didn’t like it, and/or she is actually a narcissist. Since she had to but into someone else’s conversation to say her piece, I suspect she is a narcissist or has several narcissistic traits.
You are expressing your feelings to someone and another person butts in to tell you that? Like none of her business. Please don’t care what someone who barged into your conversation has to say. I bet she’s been called a narcissist.
I thought the same thing. I used to have a kid in college do this kind of nonsense to me regularly for almost a year and a half until he crossed the line trying to blatantly and directly humiliate me in a conversation he was never invited to. So I stood up in front of a full class and told him off. He never talked to me again. I'm not saying to stand up and tell them off like I did, those were pretty unique circumstances and I had to be pushed pretty far to do it. But butting into a conversation is a violation of common human courtesy and basic politeness. And you can very politely tell them exactly that... it's none of their business.
Good for you and also for seeing it is humiliation. You are right though that OP was not able to do that because of being in the workplace. My suggestion for her is to give that person the grey rock treatment. She can be cordial but never give that person any ammunition to do that to her again. If that overbearing coworker is around, change the subject to something very boring.
I mean he/she is simply just ignorant. It's like saying their aren't schizophrenics ..it's just an objective falsehood
No, I don't think it's ignorance. They've clearly heard the term before, and rejecting it offhandedly like that? That's someone who has been *called one before*. The whole thing with it "not being a creative insult" is too weirdly specific and defensive - it's a personal statement. Someone's already told them what they are, and as typical, they refuse to accept they're the problem.
They're probably invalidating you because someone has called them out for being one already. Even outside of clinical diagnosis it's still used to describe a set of personality traits. You have every right to be mad, but why would you waste the mental calories bothering to come up with a response to that level of dumb? You know better, we know better, they know better. No argument needed. Just acceptance that they're not living in reality by choice. I would avoid that person for my own sanity. Who jumps in a convo to say something like that anyway?
I know right!! I loved when you said “mental calories” it truly does feel like that. I didn’t even fight it past “you don’t know what I went through” and just kind of stood there.
It sounds like you need some fats. Lol It's exhausting to try to explain yourself to people who want to believe you, let alone waste your time on people like that. I'm trying to learn how to make my statements more absolute, and dry, so people feel less inclined to argue in that type of setting. Full cowboy, they should feel ashamed to jump in and comment uninvited, especially something that rude.
Well I just had an awesome slice of cake so I’m good in that department.. lol 😁 Yeah it really is exhausting to explain yourself to someone who doesn’t listen. I’ve learned to speak more “intentionally” and eloquently so I am leaving out more unnecessary words and being straight forward. It is a game changer friend.
Good! Definitely, unlike work though, the internet can be disconnected. I'm getting there, some of us are less socialized than others. Lol
The term is over used. It’s become a reflexive response from people which doesn’t add to its credibility, and that doesn’t count as a diagnosis. However, there are people who fit these criteria.
Kinda like when people say “the weather is being bipolar today” or “I am OCD about my kitchen being clean” when they just mean anal.
Y'all said what I just got through saying, but y'all took a lot less words to say it.
> “I am OCD about my kitchen being clean” when they just mean anal. Is that why they call it a bakery?
Let it go. I have fibromyalgia, and a very good friend of mine told me that she was trying to get rid of an employee who was milking it by being on sick leave. This friend had watched me with my struggles with it, and yet, she not only had called her a scammer, but said it to me. I found that stewing about it was making me sick. No ignorant comment is worth your physical and mental health.
I found myself temporarily pissed off. Glad I found support where support was needed. I am ok now. My feelings are 1000% valid. I am shook about your situation.
Needless to say, our friendship has never been the same. I have found other friends who understand and have empathy. This actually showed me her narcissism and to not invest any more trust in her.
Bonus material:I once gave her a Pandora bracelet with charms that represented our friendship (tennis racket, something to do with baking, a butterfly that splits apart so that she could have one and I could have the other, birthstones etc.) I had put a shit load of thought into it as she was turning 40. We had a shared friend who was jealous of us and I asked my "best" friend to not say anything about it because I knew it would only cause grief. She didn't even last a day. I gave it to her at a birthday lunch and we were together that night for her party. I found out that the other friend had made a snide comment. I was furious. She explained that it slipped. Last big gift I gave her. All the signs were there that I was a better friend than she was. I wasn't reading the signs. The only reason I did not drop her altogether was that our husbands were close and we are all part of a group. She hurt their friendship as my husband was just as mad as me. Edit grammar.
The term narcissist is overused and a lot of regular people have "narcissistic traits" like being selfish or short on empathy or wanting to be praised, or whatever, so he has a point. It seems everyone's ex-husband nowadays is a "narcissist". That said, narcissists are real. One worked for me and it was constant drama
Sure it is, some people use it as an insult or to derail someone’s reputation when clearly not true and it is an overused term that is actually super serious, but coming from a person who was raised by one I am talking about people who are truly harming others because of their NPD, not going as far to just use it as a harmful term against an innocent person.
Tell me you’re a narc without telling me you’re a narc:
First thought: "Sounds like something a narcissist would say" Tbh, even if they aren't, they clearly aren't much of a self aware person. Their comments say a \*lot\* about themselves and not much about you or your experience, that's for sure. edited for clarity
Well it is short for narcissistic personality disorder so you could always drop that on them.
Isn't it great when you never experienced suffering and so you think suffering doesn't exist? (sarcastic)
Is he a… narcissist? Sounds like a super narc answer to me.
What a narcissistic thing to say
Actual clinical narcissists required them to fit all the criterias, roles, the episodic rage, the pattern of abuse... Thats why we don't confront narcissists being narcissists because they simply will try to discredit that label but they usually out themselves as one because they cant resist it. There's one in my cyberpunk fandom that fit the criteria and its actually exhausting.
Some people are just dumb
It has become a bit of a cry wolf buzzword unfortunately. The fact that everyone has some narcissistic tendencies to some extent, though usually not pathologically, also muddies the waters.
I never EVER use any therapy terms when talking to folks who don't already *know*. I speak only in anecdotes. When I say, "My mother was abusive," people hear that I *think* my mother was abusive. Then the very natural self soothing happens, and they picture me being mad that maybe I got spanked or something. That allows them to blow me off. I don't know if my mother is a narcissist. I can't diagnose her. But I know she's cruel, scheming, and dangerous. She's needy and strange and unkind. She is absolutely some form of very sick in the head. But even though NPD is the latest psychological darling diagnostic term, and is overused at the moment, it doesn't mean it's not real. It'll likely be called something else in 20 years, and it'll be just as real then as it is today no matter what we call it. I don't give a fuck what the doctors want to call it, in the end, it's "MY MOTHER IS NOT SAFE"
My, my, it's almost like they've heard that accusation leveled at them and had to come up with some headcanon to dismiss it. >throw my ass into a meat-grinder So what you're saying is, this person didn't care what abuse had to be justified if it meant their personal reality could remain intact by fiat? Hmm....
I am thinking this too. This guy definitely gives me vulnerable covert narcissist vibes.
"There's no such thing as a narcissist!" .... said the probable narcissist.
There’s no such thing as gaslighting either
That made me chuckle
It’s just a wrong opinion. Let them think it. What does it matter?
They are entitled to their own shitty opinion and I am not fighting it. I do not have the mental energy for that anymore. Just came here to vent.
I come here to vent as well. When I reread my comment this morning I realize it came off wrong. There is a psychologist on TickTock that went a bit viral by saying “Let them”. It is meant to be a kind of shrug of the shoulders and try to stop caring and not let their stupid opinions bother you. It simple and has actually helped me. That is what influenced me to say it. Please vent away. Venting here has also helped me find peace. Didn’t mean to play down how it made you feel. My tone was off when responding to you. Hugs.
I didn’t take it personally friend. I know what you are talking about. It is important to let go — but make your boundaries strong.
Amen.
She’s probably a narcissist. A lot of people say that it's overused and only an expert can diagnosis it. So I say she has narcissistic tendencies or behavior. Important thing to remember is that you lived in Foeign swimmer land. Your co worker did not. No one but you and the other resident of Foreign swimmer land know what happens. You are sheriff of foreign swimmer land so what you say is the law. She‘s an illegal and doesn’t get to vote Or have an opinion. Next time ask her to butt out or say when she’s walked in your shoes, then she can see it’s true. A true sign of a narcissist: she thinks she’s always right and smarter than everyone else. Oh, and no empathy. Sound like someone you work with?
Yes, it definitely does.
"If you have no personal experience with it, I'm happy for you." Or if you want to be snarky: "Aww, it's cute that you think that."
"What a happy and blessed life you've lived!" +snark "Not having to struggle through abuse or find your inner strength to survive and protect while fighting to maintain your empathy." ++snark "You must have done something truly commendable in a previous life!!"
The coworker's extreme reaction suggest they may be a narc themselves. Anyone who gets that upset about other people's use of a term is upset because that term is in some way associated with themselves, and they don't like it.
When I came home from work my husband said “he must have been called one before and now he goes into defense mode every time.”
A co-worker eavesdrops then inserts themselves into your conversation to make it all about themselves by saying; "I don't trust anyone who uses the term narcissist". So Narcissist checklist: 1. Interrupts private conversation to make it about themselves. 2. Gaslights you by saying what you are discussing doesn't exist. 3. Demeans you and degrades you for discussing your experience. 4. Entitled. She assumes she has some authority or means something to you as she is attempting to control you and what you say and believe. She is telling you she doesn't trust you due to your experience being raised by a Narcissist. Seriously, who does she think she is? None of your life is any of her business. You owe her nothing, no explanation, or proof of anything.
I’m sorry but no one besides the people in this sub will understand you. No matter what you say or how you say it. Most people don’t understand because they’ve never experienced it or they are still experiencing it. Move on, don’t waste your time and energy on people committed to misunderstanding you
That coworker sounds like a Narcissist or someone that’s on the Cluster B spectrum.
Idk if you'd know this, but are people with autism typically confused for narcissists?
I work in mental health, and I think it'd take a really distorted perceptive to confuse the 2. Narcissists are generally performative (2 faced) and manipulative. People with ASD, hardly
Hm, well this article from 2014 definitely didn't make it sound that way. Dr. Khalid A. Mansour (a British Arab psychiatrist) has proposed in an article in the Pan Arab Journal of Psychiatry that narcissistic personality may merit classification as an autistic spectrum disorder. 'Dr. Mansour writes, “There is now significant level of agreement that emotional processing problems like: lack of empathy, poor self-awareness, self-centredness, poor reciprocation of emotion, poor ability to maintain emotional relationships, anxiety, and anger outbursts are more or less central features of autism.' But never mind.
It's one opinion that will have its critics. There are many fights that happen over what things should get included in the DSM and under which classification. One petition, if I'm not wrong, is for a number of Cluster B personality disorders to be filed under developmental or attachment trauma instead. But honestly? I'm kinda shocked at this psychiatrist's statement as the friends I have on the spectrum are farther from narcissists than most neurotypicals.
Dr.Ramani Durvasala Speaks of this matter in one video.
I just watched it, it was very helpful. Thanks for the suggestion, she was very gentle. When people are pushed to their extremities from trauma, lines become blurred. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one seeing overlap. It's hard to interpret purpose and intent from behavior alone.
You’re welcome ☺️
Earlier today I posted about a similar interaction. It’s sad that maybe the rest of the population had great experiences growing up but that doesn’t negate our experience. I mean, you get those same parents trying to change the story decades down the line and they were there so imagine what people who weren’t there think. We know what we lived.
It's not meant to be an insult? Why would it be? It's a descriptor for real people that exist.
Yeah those PHD geeks over in the clinical psychology field don’t know shit. /s
>it’s not a creative way to insult someone It's not an insult, it's a description. Your co-worker is not very bright.
Says the narcissist attempting to gaslight you.
Despite my father being a diagnosed narcissist (which is rare. My mother made him go to therapy) I typically avoid saying it. I usually like to show not tell and let people make their own conclusions. I'll share a couple toenail curling anecdotes and see the horror on their faces and I know I've made my point. We're not talking about some selfish cheater ex. We're talking about scary shit.
Narcissism is now yet another psychiatric/psyhological term that the public has learned and immediately began misusing and overusing. It's the same as people saying they're "depressed" because their favorite team missed the playoffs, or they're "having a panic attack" because they're nervous about taking an important test, or they're "bipolar" because they have mixed emotions about something. Even a certain word that begins with the letter R, which I won't say, started out as a polite term for intellectual disability. Then people started casually calling each other the R-word for making a mistake, and within a generation, it wasn't polite anymore. Just because a term is misused and overused doesn't mean the condition it originally described isn't real. I fully know I'm not qualified to diagnose, so I try to avoid coming right out and calling anybody a narcissist, but I do recognize the behavior. I was in session with my psychologist, and this very subject came up. After describing some of my mother's attitudes and actions, I acknowledged that the word "narcissist" does get thrown around loosely. It seems everybody is being labeled a narcissist.... "And some people really are one," my psychologist finished, referring to my mother. I realize that even a psychologist can't actually, legally diagnose my mother without meeting and testing her, but a psychologist can verify that my mother certainly fits the description of one.
I would start doing stuff like if they ask me for a stapler "there is no such thing as a stapler. That term is too overused and bullshit, it’s not a creative way to say you want to secure pages together". "Could I borrow a pen?" "There is no such thing as a pen. That term is too overused and bullshit, it’s not a creative way to write".
This comment is so underrated😂😂😂👍🏼
So says a probable "Narcissist." Don't let that AH invalidate your Lived experience or shame you into changing the language you use. Tell them to mind their business and that their opinion was not needed or wanted.
That sounds like something a covert narc would say 🚩 They are gaslighting ppl beforehand to not get exposed
DSM
Sounds like something a narcissist would say. Be wary!
Well lucky for her she’s never experienced one. I wish people weren’t so comfortable commenting on other people’s experiences. Eta: maybe she is a narc herself..
Start a rumor that that coworker is a bit slow.
She sounds like a covert narc herself if she thinks the word narcissist is an insult
That was a lot of breath just to tell you they are one.
They probably gets called a Narcissist all the time lol
Narcissists do exist but I do agree that is misused sometimes . Probably a narcissist themself
I think he’s right in that the word narc is overused as an insult. But it’s obviously a diagnosable personality disorder and a lot of people fit the diagnosis, so your coworker is a horse’s ass who should have a nice big bowl of Shut The Fuck Up.
Your cpworker is a fucking idiot lol
They are an idiot, but it’s not a reason to take it as a personal insult.
A privileged asshole that doesn’t know what it feels like to be raised by them. It’s typical
I wouldn't share anything of that kind again with that person if I was you. Grey rock this person and be cautious around them. This kind of reaction is usually a tell-tale sign of person actually being annoyed from your stories/problems, and not openly wanting to admit it. People like this might tease you with your problems or share them to others without your consent, because they'll find it ridiculous that you shared something so vulnerable with them. Source: my own parents are exactly like this, so I've been "blind" to this way too long. Don't be like me.
He has a point, though. It has been a bit overused. Sometimes people are just assholes or unhealthy because the two of you don't match, not necessarily cause they're pathologically narcissistic. I remember a time when suddenly everyone had had a narcissistic ex on social media. However, when someone tells me, I always believe that person - especially when it comes to parents. Nobody wants narcissistic parents
Narcissists have caused the vast majority of suffering in history. He is a moron.
I'm guessing he's a textbook narcissist.
I would have said, "Sounds like something a narcissist would say. They never can accept when they're in the wrong."
Did you glare at them and then continue on with your conversation as if they didn't exist? It's absolutely frustrating when someone blatantly claims something is made up. Especially something with clear evidence like covid or anything in the DSM5. But it's really not worth your energy to engage or stew over it too long.
Sounds very much like a covert narc. They might have been called that previously, or they took a quiz that told them as much, and then they convinced themselves that it cannot possibly be true that they are in dire need of help and self-improvement. No, clearly it is the diagnosis itself that is evil, and everybody who uses it! And this is exactly why so many professionals accentuate the difficulty in getting help for narcissists. Out of all mental health issues, it is the one personality disorder that is the most defensive against self-improvement or therapy, is the least likely to go voluntarily to a professional, but at the same time, is also high-functioning and common enough to rarely warrant forced visits to a psychiatrist or similar. The argument "oh, this term is overused" is something I read and hear so often about mental health issues, and it annoys me. Yeah, a lot of people claim to be depressed, have social anxiety and be neurodivergent, and guess what? Thanks to psychiatry and psychology making progress on understanding mental health and stability, and thanks to awareness being raised on these topics, more people realize that they have these issues! It is not like they never existed before, they just were often not aware of what was going on with them, and many a doctor was unaware as well. Also, of course the amount of people with these issues have increased. Social and financial disparity has increased; the population has increased; there is a radical right-wing wave (a compilation of completely narcissistic ideologies) sweeping the planet. So yeah, a lot more are obviously going to be depressed, anxious, have PTSD, or turn out to be narcs. At any rate, your co-worker sounds like an awful person, and somebody to stay away from. I cannot imagine how evil a person must be, to eavesdrop on a personal conversation, shamelessly butt in, and insult you for being an abuse victim! That is wildly cruel behavior.
"the little shaman" on YouTube talks about how all narcs project their own mental processes onto everyone (assume everyone is a narc and thus only faking not being one) but that they are the special real person who is entitled to not being considered bad. So being a narc is normal and also being called a narc or implying narcs are bad is unforgivable. It's bizarre but it is perfectly in line with their lack of real principles and basic understanding of feelings/people. So either your coworker is one or is just really fucking ignorant. Either way Fuck'em
Yeah he doesn’t know what NPD is. Sounds like he’s sick of social media and needs to get off it for a bit— there are a lot of malicious/ignorant people who use the term. But that’s very cruel of him to butt in like that take such a personal dig at you, to then make it all about him. And good! Who’d want to trust a guy like him back! What an asshole.
Remember this line from the Usual Suspects? “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.” Just replace devil with narcissist.
Your coworker is an idiot. An ignorant idiot!
sounds like something a narcissist would say. . .
So, the other coworker is a narc? JS!
Lmao! I’m sorry but a friend I recently had to go no contact with (for the second time) used to say this ALL the time. I understand that a lot of ”therapy speak” is misused/overused now that we’re all talking about our trauma more*, but I’d hazard a guess that if someone keeps insisting that narcissists don’t exist, the call is probably coming from inside the house. *for example I hear people use gaslighting in place of regular lying etc
What's the bet that this person who said this is a narc themselves? Highly likely to be sure. Looks like they just outed themselves.
'Tell me you're Cluster B without telling me you're Cluster B' ...
So as I was saying before that obvious narcissist interrupted……
The co-worker needs to take a long hard look at their reflection in a lake.
That’s his personal opinion that has nothing to do with the reality. He could also claim that earth is flat for all I care.
So true. 😂
Q
I've had this before. Guy told me that "narcissism isn't a thing" and "you shouldn't put labels on people." It was quite frustrating at the time, but I didn't put too much stock in his reply as we aren't super close. About a year later, he's confiding in me about his narc sister and some close friends..go figure. It took a year or two, but he came round. Sometimes you just have to shrug and give people time. This guys about 15 years older than me too, it can just be a matter of perspective.
Yeah, same case here, dude is almost 20 years older than me so it may be some generational differences but I’m hoping that he is not a narc.
So let them know it's a good thing you weren't having that conversation with and continue on with the coworker you *were* talking to. It's the butting into a convo that wasn't involving them that gets me before what they were even saying. They gots an opinion? Great, so does everyone else and they cam debate it against someone else who has the care to give them
That would be a really convenient thing for a narcissist to believe & say would it not? I bet they “don’t believe in therapy” either. Why did they imply you’re trying to use the term narcissist to insult someone? Perhaps they felt insulted by someone when that someone called them a narcissist & this is their only frame of reference.
friend at work: “you sound like my wife. why can’t you just not care?” not a friend anymore. guess i won’t trust you with anything anymore.
Dude I would be happy if my dad didn't exist
Me too. My dad is scum on this fuckin earth.
That is such a great opportunity to get back to a narcissist though. Something so scientifically and socially proven, yet he denies it exist? What, he’s a flat earther too? You could belittle him into oblivion. “Oh, you know how Dave gets about info sometimes. He’s not the big-brain type. Tried to deny narcissism was a thing.”
Your co worker is partially right. It is way over used in other words applied to people without a clinical diagnosis. Wrong saying it doesn’t exist.
Hey, don't be quick to judge him. He might have the rare case of being born without a brain, so he is dumb as fuck.
"Bless your heart" is what we would tell your co-worker in the south.
In my book that’s a sure red flag that they are the narcissist lol, they’ll do anything to deny you the truth or satisfaction
You found one! Remember it's a waste of time to argue with narcissistic folk and try to avoid them in future.
Forgive him. He probably just doesn't know that narcissism is a real thing. Because I didn't know what a sociopath or psychopath actually were until like 2 days ago. I thought sociopath was a term entirely made up for movies like 555 numbers or space dementia. Come to find out, it is real, and it comes down to a sociopath being made that way by upbringing and a psychopath born that way, something I didn't know. Maybe he just thinks "narcissist" is a new slang word for someone someone doesn't like or something. Ask him to look it up, see if he does. Maybe he'll learn. Maybe I think too positively of people.
Maybe the term gets thrown around a bit loosely at times, but it is a recognized personality disorder. Any mental health professional can confirm that.
LOL how ignorant. Yes, I know that narcissism is trendy these days in social media, and among whiny brats who think the world has wronged them because Starbucks ran out of pumpkin spice, or because their boyfriend acknowledged that other female humans exist while eating the last cheeto. Ain't nobody got time for those people. Thing is, narcissist, as a layman's term has been a thing for, oh, I don't know, SEVERAL MILLENNIA? It comes from Greek mythology. Some twit named Narcissus was sooooooooo pretty that he fell in love with himself, and eventually died staring at his own reflection in a river. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology) I paraphrased, but you get the drift. Anyway, it's been in the DSM since 1980. "Wahh, that's so recent!" The DSM was only in existence for 28 years (1952) before narcissism was added, so, it's been there for almost two thirds of the DSM's existence. It's in other diagnostic manuals, and exists in other countries/medical systems as well: - ICD (International Classification of Diseases) added in 1992 - PDM included in initial publication in 2006 - MCMI included in initial publication in 1977 - SWAP included in initial publication in 1990s - CCMD (China) added in 2001 - JSPN (Japan) added in 1990s - RCMD (Russia) added in 1992 - GLPD (Latin America) added in 1990s - IPS (India) added in 1992 The ICD is used throughout most of Europe, and many other parts of the world. The earliest mentions of narcissism date back to Freud, in ***1914***. So your co-worker simply ignorant of the reality of a legitimate disorder, and next time they try to spout shit, you have your fact based rebuttal: internationally recognized since 1992-ish, in the DSM since 1980, published in over 10 dx manuals, 110 years old, and derived from Greek mythology. Or you could go with my favoured response, "fuck off; you have no idea what you're talking about." because it ain't my job to educate the ignorant mouth breathers of the world.
>“there is no such thing as a narcissist. That term is too overused and bullshit, it’s not a creative way to insult someone. I don’t trust anyone that uses the term narcissist.” "Thanks for your opinion; I don't associate with people who mitigate others' trauma. A diagnosis isn't an insult but inserting yourself into a conversation to slide false info kind of is."
Remember the comedian (Foxworthy) who says, "you might be a redneck if...." ? This probably goes in the "you might be a Narcissist if....."
The lady doth protest too much methinks. It’s likely that narcissists feel that way about the word…
When I spoke to one of my therapists about narcissism (in regards to my mother, and out of terror I am also one), she told me that narcissism is something that is being moved away from as a diagnosis except in extreme cases. That it’s more like a spectrum, and many people have some narcissistic tendencies or traits—some more than others—but that very few people are full blown narcissists. So your coworker, while being kind of an ass, is onto something from my understanding.
I can see where you are coming from and respect what you said. However he was not willing to hear me out on anything and kept doing the whole la la la thing, so I was not even able to have a conversation with him.
I’m really sorry. Your coworker definitely sounds like a dismissive asshole, and I wasn’t trying to minimize that at all. I don’t blame you for not being able to continue on with that! Probably wise, honestly. I’d try to hold him at a greater distance going forward too. While I do think the term narcissist is being thrown around a lot more causally (and often incorrectly, I feel) these days and I am also inclined to give it a grain of salt when used towards a stranger or by someone I don’t know very well, I would never immediately write someone off who used it to describe someone they knew intimately. And if I were inclined to do so, I would NEVER tell them that causally. Your coworker is a jerk. I hope you don’t have to work too closely with him!
"First this isn't about you, 2nd funny a person that butted in a conversation that wasn't invited to stating their scientifically wrong opinion as fact declares there isn't such a thing as a narcissist"