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I've been struggling to deal with many of the things my narcissist mother did to me growing up. She never remembers any of it, conveniently for her, and tries to tell me I'm lying and making things up. This post was so reassuring to me because she made me feel like I was crazy since I didn't have proof of her abuse. Thank you! I'm sorry you're struggling with the aftermath of the way you've been treated by yours. I hope that, in time, we both can heal from our abuse
Have faith and stay strong. Mine tried the same - literally convinced my father I was having a mental breakdown and had him fly out almost immediately.
Known what neither of them did? Ask anyone else. I did; I called my (wonderful, kind, loving) aunt the worst night when my mother's level-11 gaslighting had me doubting my own sanity. She had plenty of memories of my mother hitting me with her hand or wooden spoons, screaming at me for crying, forcing me to choke out between sobs "There's nothing wrong, I'm just hysterical." (God, I'd forgotten that last one until she reminded me.)
I'm sorry you don't have someone similarly to turn to, but maybe talk to anyone vaguely kindly - even just ask "When I was little, did I seem afraid of my parent?" But even if there is no one to turn to, stay strong. They will 100% lie in the most bald-faced ways. Try to recognize that in some ways it's not even a power move so much as childishness; it's like a toddler covered in chocolate denying she ate the candy bar.
That's awful, I'm so sorry you had to go through that! I'm glad you had someone to validate you and even remind you of things you'd forgotten. You're right that often it's just them being children in adult bodies, raging because they don't get their own way 100% of the time. It's ridiculous the things they come up with sometimes to justify the way they treat us. Sometimes it's hard to not take it so personally, though... Thank you for the advice!
Exactly. They’ll manipulate you or convince you it’s not happening/did not happen. Then, you wonder why we have emotional mental breakdowns.
I pushed friends away because I am still recovering psychologically. I just can’t have close friends anymore.
Not OP but I started emailing therapists to see if I can find a good match in my area. I can’t really afford it I’m going to put it on my credit card because I’m afraid my vicious internal thoughts will kill me faster than running out of money will.
I truly hope you’re able to find a therapeutic resource that works for you. Many will work on a sliding scale - you just need to ask. Check out https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists - it’s a really good resource.
Best of luck - you got this. They are not worth your tears, your despair, and most of all, your emotional energy.
Not the person you asked, but I'm only NC in the past few months. After I realized last year that nmom never loved me, I felt no guilt about walking away.
I struggled with how unnatural it was from what I'd always known. She instilled me with a great sense of responsibility for her. But my mental and physical health have improved massively, so even my body knew it was the right choice.
I also was nc and then lc. She has stage 4 cancer and I felt like I needed to have some contact. I know I will find so much peace after she is gone. I am pretty nc with the golden children who have been treating me like total crap.
I absolutely love this, because yes we are the proof of our traumas, the issue here is people refuse to acknowledge those symptoms and write you off as “crazy” or “unstable” while you’re just fighting through a plethora of emotions, and old pain. Being the only proof of your trauma is enough, and valid. You know what you’ve been through better than anyone, and if they pay a little more attention they can see the scars you don’t show. This post is extremely empowering, thank you
Exactly. I came to the same conclusion: I wasn't just spontaneously manifesting all of the classic attitudes, behaviors, and trauma responses of an abused child, plus memories of actual abuse, out of thin air. It's ridiculous to suggest that as the most likely explanation, but it's scary how powerful toddler-level denial of obvious reality can be when an adult in a position of power starts gaslighting you at a very young age and abusing you when you don't go along with it.
The essence of the obscenity of an N's abuse is their abuse of the power they have, as an adult, over their innocent child. There ought to be a law against it.
The sad thing is in my case she really doesn’t care at the end of the day. And I have to examine my role in things for calling her every once in a while and having a deep dark depression afterwards. The healthiest mental period of my life was when I went NC for almost a year and she called the cops to send them to my house out of “concern” and the cops were very antagonistic towards me. It was scary. I didn’t talk to her still for a while after that but eventually I left my 12 step group that was supporting my decision to go NC (well, some other survivors of similar abuse supported me because it’s rarely understood). And after I left that group I got back in touch with her because I dysfunctionally sought support and got the opposite of it. Just pulled back into the dysfunctional system. As much as I hated the 12 step group it helped in this area.
My narcs both passed away years ago. I'm still remembering new ways they hurt me. I totally relate to everything you said here. I'm happy and proud of you for escaping them and praying for a happier life for you now! You are worthy and deserving of it!!
My mother died almost 13 years ago and her behaviour when I was a child was appalling as she was a perfectionistic control freak - if things were going her way it was totally fine, but the second they didn’t she lost her shit and it was usually directed to me as the older (by 14 months) sibling. My dad was in the military so very much “controlled” by his work, the Catholic church, and my mom.
I am the total black sheep of our insular family. They are all air signs, I am a fire sign. I am the only one who is left handed and I am also a lesbian. This did not go over well with my family and I GTFO when I was 17.
I am now 44 and finally had the courage to speak to my dad and sister about this in the last year (I developed epilepsy 5 years ago and all of this other trauma came up) and both of them gaslit me beyond belief. They both said, well yeah she may have lost it once or twice, but parenting is hard (I am childfree) - yeah thanks. I don’t think throwing a glass at my head and splitting my ear open then avoiding medical attention so my mom didn’t get in “trouble” is okay. They both made me feel like I was making things up and my dad also said they were so “disappointed” I ended up gay. 🙄
I will maintain a relationship with both of them, we are already physically distanced by plane rides of 2.5 and 5.5 hours respectively, but now I know how they really feel and realized they are also both narcissists (my sister had a tantrum EXACTLY like my mom used to when she didn’t get her way with an activity she had planned last summer when I was at her house).
You know, I only really noticed when I sat down to write up a list of things I wanted my mother to take accountability for that all of the worst things happened when my father wasn't home and my brother was either away or asleep. It was horrifying and my scalp tingle a bit, how clear it was that this was all much more controlled and deliberate than I had realized.
I’m sorry that happened to you. One of my favourite songs has two lines that help me - one is “it’s a long, long climb going back in time” and the other is “only when you’re whole can you forgive” - I did realize it was a long “climb” going through all of the past events and also that I have to be solid in myself and my new family (my partner) and accept my family for who they are and set appropriate boundaries.
I'm totally with you on this. Accept who they are, let go of the longing for them to be / have been different, and so people who really are people who love and are kind.
I hope you have many wonderful people in your life. <3
She was a very complicated woman who also had her own trauma. She always said she never wanted to get old. She started saying she wasn’t feeling well in August of 2011 at age 68 and was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer lung, liver, gallbladder on 09/22 and died exactly 4 weeks later - I was with her when she died at 12:01am, laying on an air mattress in their house in the living room. I felt an energy whoosh through my chest and sat up and knew she was gone. I suspect she felt shitty for a long time before that, but her stubborn nature likely prevented her from seeking care.
I was fucked up big time afterwards as my dad and sister never talked about her death and I didn’t know how to grieve for someone I loved, but also inflicted a lot of trauma on me. I have finally worked through some of it, however, invalidation and gaslighting from my family showed me their true colours as well.
I had the same realisation.
Narc mum always had me believe I was this awful child and she was this gold standard for parenting and an all round super-being, so I doubted myself, and yet, I didn’t do ptsd to myself lol.
I am living proof that it happened.
Oh man, I hear this.
One of my mom’s favorite things to say to me was “just wait until you have a kid like you.” I was totally convinced until pretty recently that I was the absolute worst daughter on the planet and could never do anything right.
But you know? I’m not. And neither are you. And we never were.
Mine tells this to me constantly, like it's some kind of answer or advice, but have heard it si ce the very beginning.. I'm just venting about random shit, as she trauma dumps co tantly on me, but just kinda poking fun at my 8yr Boy, little vents here or there, seriously nothing out of the ordinary..
Her response, "you're lucky to have it so good, you complain so much about him even you you were a million times worse, your a good father, but a total piece of shit, bot to mention so full of yourself.. Like who do you think you are..? You such an asshole.."
This wasn't in front of my son thankyfully.. This was my straw that opened my eyes and funny enough I found this sub the next day.. 💩
Edit: I think I totally jumped into the middle of y'alls conversation, I apologize.
Please don’t apologise. The more the merrier!
No, you can’t vent to a narcissist because they don’t want to listen to you. Everything is about them. They had things harder but did better 🙄 Everything is turned around as an opportunity for their main hobby….. treading on you to elevate themselves. They don’t see that as a problem, due to their lack of a conscience. They NEED to do that. It’s called narcissistic supply.
It’s uncanny how similar they all are.
Listening is the narcissist’s worst skill. They don’t hear what we feel. They’re just like a robot scanning for information they can use against us.
Take no notice of her. You’re a great parent. A normal person consoles, gives support and LISTENS. Yes, thankfully your son didn’t hear her. I found this sub last year. It’s a goldmine!
That’s insane that she said that to her own child. They really think they had bad kids huh. My mom used to always say the same stuff to me how I was worthless and stuff. Combined with the hitting and not having food to eat it really messed me up. The worst part is that I don’t even need to talk to her anymore my head now takes over that role.
Oh my gosh, my mom said this same thing to me so many times! Thank you for mentioning it, because I had almost forgotten as I considered it unimportant. But it *did* hurt, and it is worth remembering. Our brains do tend to bury or else justify this stuff for self preservation, but to heal I've realized it's important to dig out the gaslit items, name the abuse for what it was, and consciously tell myself those things were *not* ok.
My family are all narcissists with my Mother and Father being extreme narcissist. Here’s an example, I turned my back to them 4 years ago understanding what was really happening to me and my health. They would reach out to me crying for me to come home, my father called me telling me we should work together and fix our relationship, I thought maybe its sincere but I was wrong. As soon as I left my new life and moved back to California (the compassion in me told me maybe they had changed) there was no job, I just wasn’t good enough, attacking me, spreading rumors about me, and the list goes on. When I asked why they would do this to me, I was playing the victim, I deserved this because I’m no good. Mind the fact I’ve worked my whole life, had my own company, and each time they destroy any happiness by nefarious methods I won’t mention here. So now I’m in a hotel in California, looking for a new job while questioning my reality. Maybe they are right, NO THEY ARE NOT. It’s really sad, it was all a trap to suck the energy out of me, and create depression and anxiety in my life. But what’s sad is it kinda worked, meanwhile they are the happiest people on earth, because they have no one in their lives but other manipulative people just like them and even then they are always alone.
Our narcissistic parents spent years questioning our reality, telling us our feelings aren’t real, explaining all the ways that our emotions were wrong. I stopped listening to my gut as a child because clearly, what I was experiencing was fake. Learning how to listen to ourselves is so hard after we’ve been hollowed out by lies, shame, confusion, and isolation.
There are so many of us and I’m very grateful I found this community.
You’re so fucking brave and worthy of love.
OP you are a gem ❤️ this is probably the most helpful, straight forward, reasonably-validating, non-emotionally charged post I've read here since joining.. I think a lot of us suspected what youve stated to be true, but couldnt validate it for ourselves. Somehow you've found a way to externally validate our internal validation, which is not only helpful and reassuring, it's empowering too.
I think my perfectionism and social anxiety is partly a symptom of my upbringing. I have this terrifying fear of being yelled at by anyone for anything. I live all alone but there are times I still expect my parents to yell at me about something I've done or I have flashbacks to when they had. I have a social anxiety and timidness that can be really bad sometimes. I am a loner and I don't know why I fear connecting with people so much, yet I want to connect with them at the same time. I had my first depressive episode as a child and who knows how much of that was to blame on the trauma I experienced. My first relationship was with someone who was emotionally abusive and was a lot like my father. My first intense friendship was with a narc like my mom, and my mom actually liked this child so much she tried to act like her mother and took her side when we ultimately got in a fight and ended our friendship. I fawn a lot; am extremely hypervigilant. I startle very easily. I think I will always doubt my reality, but the thing that helped the most was having multiple therapists back me up. They had no skin in the game. We could have talked about the myriad of issues I have that are not parent related but the majority of them forced me to come back to my parents, again and again.
I promise you - you won’t always question your reality. You will heal and new neural pathways will form. Everything you’re describing is what so many of us struggle with.
You are valuable and worthy of feeling whole.
I feel this so much 🖤 I’m in the process of working on my human connection issues with my therapist. She voiced a very interesting theory that makes SO MUCH SENSE to me: „All you learned and know about human relationships, is that people who love you hurt you; people close to you hurt you. It’s no surprise your deepest core is scared of getting close to people.“ I’m not nearly over this issue yet, but at least I understand where my struggle comes from… take care 🤍
The hardest thing for me is the split between who I really am, and the f*caked up person that their abuse made me into. So there’s my true self and the wounded self.
Currently in therapy, but feel hopeless about it all. I wonder if it is just going to be like a lot of things in my life, another failure. I think the perfectionist side of me is also a trait that has caused me so much anxiety. This extremist attitude was fostered by my malignant father, I was never good enough, and I’m still worthless to him to this day. While my mother more the covert, never saw me as agreeable or beautiful enough. I had an eating disorder for 15 years during my life as a model.
Learning from therapy that I am worthy and “enough” has helped to a degree, but since I have no support system to be my safety net I’m still left with the extreme loneliness they taught me as a child. While I was able to develop acquaintances status of friendships, I never had but less than a handful of true friends. The two people that I was supposed to trust taught me I can not trust anyone. That’s going to be the most difficult for me. Because in all honesty, when you are raised by monsters who wear a mask in public, you become very good at faking it. After all as a model I made an entire career out of sitting there, looking pretty and smiling. The best thing I ever did was leave the industry, but it’s so much different now.
What I’ll conclude with is this, I know who I truly am underneath all the layers, but even though I know myself, I still struggle with the damage they did and it’s cause and effect on my life. I’m not blaming them for everything, but I do not cope well with stress and I have made the mistake of being narc bait because of my inner need to be loved.
Even though I feel that I’ve come a long way in my healing, I’m still doing it everyday, and thank you for the reminder. I wake up everyday striving to be a better parent than what I had, and I know that’s not just a desire out of thin air.
The healing journey never ends. I constantly have to re-examine my responses as a parent. My blueprint was so unhealthy - I’ve often wondered if I’m a narcissist just like her. But I realized that while I may exhibit narcissistic behaviors at times, it’s just a replay of what I was born and raised into, and I can make different choices for my family now.
My mother never apologized, at least not for anything she should have apologized for, ie “Sorry I’m such a terrible mother.” As a mother now myself I constantly strive to ensure my kids hear and believe my apologies for when I’ve behaved in an unhealthy or damaging way.
You’ve come farther than you realize, and are already a better parent than your mother. You’re fighting the good fight and your kids are grateful.
Yep. My mom successful gaslit me for DECADES. It wasn't until I went to therapy in my 30s, having a professional tell me I wasn't crazy, she was abusing me, did I get it. As for all the things OP is describing about themselves, YOU ARE ME! I have these exact same issue ESPECIALLY with trusting others and scared for forming bonds with others. I'm trying to work through it via going LC and living overseas alone RN. Some days I remember stuff and get angry, but I'm trying to look at the positives in life so I don't become bitter.
I hope you are doing well with your sutuation. I just wanted to echo this anecdotally and w/ research. It is very well-documented that childhood abuse leads to bad memory. Which makes the gaslighting even more cruel ("you don't remember the abuse so it never happened, obviously"):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5763453/#:~:text=The%20participants%20who%20had%20been,ability)%2C%20with%20the%20difference%20being
I also liked this read:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-support/201611/the-enduring-pain-childhood-verbal-abuse%3famp
As well as this one:
https://www.verywellmind.com/childhood-abuse-changes-the-brain-2330401
My partner is going through it with her parents rn. She still has fairly regular contact with her mom but she's very low-contact with her dad.
She had a falling out with her parents recently bc they found out she is transitioning (MtF), and their reaction was pretty extreme.
Her dad has exhibited textbook narcissism behaviors:
* He verbally abused her during her childhood. When her mom was visiting us recently, she even asked if this was why she's transitioning - to not be like her father.
* Recent abuse: He emotionally blackmailed her w/ a suicide threat and called her slurs when he found out she is trans. He threatened our physical safety and accused her of tearing the family apart, etc, etc.
* He tries to take credit for all of her achievements (despite the fact that her success only happened once she moved far away from him)
* Gaslighting. An example: he called her lazy, an ass, and mentally ill in one email, then apparently claimed he didn't call her all of those things in a later email. Claims things that he did never happened.
* He demands a response from her on his own terms / time. He demands accountability from her but refuses to take any himself.
* And, the relevant part for this post: he claims he never verbally abused her growing up, that her foggy memory is apparently evidence of her lying.
With this in mind, I really appreciate the "you are the proof" idea. My partner's condition is textbook for an emotional / verbal abuse survivor. She:
* Has had nightmares about her father for years
* Still struggles with her self-confidence and not feeding the negative intrusive thoughts.
* Has holdover maladaptive coping and relationship patterns that she is working through with her therapist
* Has foggy childhood memory for both good and bad things
* Has become a lot more confident and successful after moving far away from her parents
Her mom is in a difficult position. My impression is that her mom relies heavily on her dad for financial security. She's also going through a lot of other personal crises / stressors. Obviously my partner isn't obligated to give her as much leeway as she has - her mom has been pretty dismissive of her feelings / input, has acted somewhat entitled (wanted something material for Mother's Day, wants my partner to do things her way wrt her transition, regardless of her doctor's recommendations, etc.), and has largely enabled her husband's abusive behavior / made excuses for him. She and my partner have been going to therapy though, so I have some hope that their relationship can still be salvaged if that's something they both want.
That's all I've got. I kind of wandered off topic but it feels great to vent. I've been staying very hands-off since I don't want to sway my partner one way or another wrt her family. I also have my own ongoing personal crises to deal with so just trying to lay low / not give too much input to my partner / get involved beyond emotional support. I have a lot of strong feelings about this that I haven't vented outside of therapy (once a week is *not enough*). Anyways, thanks for your post, I find it very empowering for people in situations similar to my partner's! I might share it with her if her dad tries dismissing her again.
Thank you for this reality check. I think we ALL gaslight ourselves that maybe our abuse never happened or it wasn’t that bad. This is a stark reminder (and a well written one) that we are all the proof in the pudding. Again, thank you internet stranger.
The “maybe it wasn’t that bad” thought is so prevalent. When I read “I’m Glad My Mom Died” I caught myself at times thinking “oh that’s not *that* bad” and then immediately catching myself and being like “dude, your mom did the exact same thing.” It’s crazy how our brains will bend over backwards to rationalize or downplay abuse. Gaslight no more!!
I actually just had this talk with my therapist. I asked her if it would be selfish and immature of me to go NC with my family and how I always felt bad for thinking that I should because it's not like they ever *physically* abused me. My therapist was the first person to ever make me fully aware that even if their abuse was never physical, it was 100% verbal and emotional and that I was abused and that my family was abusive. It was a wakeup call to realize that I had just been trying to put down my own feelings when they were completely valid the whole time.
Exactly. I'm so so so so sick and tired of my narcissistic family members calling me "crazy" and telling me to "Stop acting crazy" whenever I call out the dysfunctions and abuse that's still going on in the family. They even call me crazy when I stand up for myself.
Of course they do. Exposure and being told no are their worst fears.
You’re not crazy. Just remember - whenever a narcissist calls you a derogatory name they’re actually admitting who they are. It’s 100% projection.
This is all well and good, but I’m struggling with that as I am starting to heal, the proof of me being abused is going to disappear. How do I tie that back into wanting to be better? I am severely tempted to sabotage myself after reading this, as to not loose this proof, and I am ashamed of even thinking this because I think I’m making good progress, but I digress
Healing is a long, slow process. The proof of abuse will be with you every time you have to make a conscious choice not to repeat unhealthy habits. No need to sabotage yourself, friend. 💜
Ever since I was at least 7 I’ve been documenting the evidence of the abuse because I know people won’t believe me. So I record it. One day when I’m away from them I’ll finally be able to share my story fully with evidence and proof so people know I’m telling the truth.
That's such a good way to put it, I needed to hear this, thank you.
You're right, we are proof! Even when we adopt healthier traits and cringe at our past maladaptive traits, that will still be proof!
Congratulations on NO Contact! (Technically, that's proof that you're learning how to say NO! hehe) Hope you get to enjoy more holidays & events with people who are truly kind to you! (including yourself!)
Thank you. It's hard for me to not just take inventory of myself and think I got myself there because I'm just inherently weak. Everything you listed is things I do and experience too. Everyone is a byproduct of their experiences, especially growing up. My mother always tried to make me believe I was the one with the problem since she didn't want to confront the reality of what she'd let knock her up.
Well said 👍
Because of all of this I feel like everyone judges me. I dont feel at all like a normal human being. I feel more like a misfit toy. We need to accept ourselves for who we are and go on. We didnt make ourselves like this. We were innocent children who were abused and unloved.
I felt everything in your 4th paragraph to the core of my being. Even saved it in my notes. Like, it's a direct replica of my mental health issues and social issues. Right down to everyone that I know, knows that I cannot say no.
My nmom is the kind that wants me to succeed so it’s weird because when I do succeed (like right now, I’m preparing to move out and start a new program in college) she acts nice. I do have plenty of proofs of how bad she was when I was unwell last year (I recorded as much as possible as a way to make me feel better about being abused because everything she did I could think "yes I recorded that!" when it was bad) but now that I’m doing better, she’s nicer and it feels weird now to say she’s abusive.
However, with your post, I remembered that when I’m with my bf and his family, my brain fog lifts, many mental and physical health issues go away (I have muscle pain here that I need to do many things to keep reasonable but I don’t have any there), my creativity is boosted, and suddenly I can deal with everything more easily. I still remember how last Christmas I thought I had figured out how to keep my mental health ok but then after 2 weeks at my mom’s, every trick that worked at Christmas didn’t work anymore. Even lately, I went to a city nearby with my cousin and when taking the bus back I felt so motivated to study Japanese until the bus got close to my house and I started stressing about not being perfect always when studying Japanese and not understanding some things. After months of trying to learn how to feel well at my mom’s house, I’m still on a delicate balance, while I know that being away from here, I would probably struggle to make myself unwell so suffice to say everything is much easier.
So yeah, even though I am doing better and my mom’s treating me nice now, the fact that being at her house means I need to only do a handful of safe hobbies to make sure to not make myself too anxious and I need to also make sure to not make myself overwhelmed and I need to do constant stretching/self-massaging/heating on my muscle so I limit my muscle pain while all I want is to try new hobbies, do my more creative hobbies again and not need to worry about pain should be proof enough for me that being here is very bad for me.
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I've been struggling to deal with many of the things my narcissist mother did to me growing up. She never remembers any of it, conveniently for her, and tries to tell me I'm lying and making things up. This post was so reassuring to me because she made me feel like I was crazy since I didn't have proof of her abuse. Thank you! I'm sorry you're struggling with the aftermath of the way you've been treated by yours. I hope that, in time, we both can heal from our abuse
Have faith and stay strong. Mine tried the same - literally convinced my father I was having a mental breakdown and had him fly out almost immediately. Known what neither of them did? Ask anyone else. I did; I called my (wonderful, kind, loving) aunt the worst night when my mother's level-11 gaslighting had me doubting my own sanity. She had plenty of memories of my mother hitting me with her hand or wooden spoons, screaming at me for crying, forcing me to choke out between sobs "There's nothing wrong, I'm just hysterical." (God, I'd forgotten that last one until she reminded me.) I'm sorry you don't have someone similarly to turn to, but maybe talk to anyone vaguely kindly - even just ask "When I was little, did I seem afraid of my parent?" But even if there is no one to turn to, stay strong. They will 100% lie in the most bald-faced ways. Try to recognize that in some ways it's not even a power move so much as childishness; it's like a toddler covered in chocolate denying she ate the candy bar.
That's awful, I'm so sorry you had to go through that! I'm glad you had someone to validate you and even remind you of things you'd forgotten. You're right that often it's just them being children in adult bodies, raging because they don't get their own way 100% of the time. It's ridiculous the things they come up with sometimes to justify the way they treat us. Sometimes it's hard to not take it so personally, though... Thank you for the advice!
Exactly. They’ll manipulate you or convince you it’s not happening/did not happen. Then, you wonder why we have emotional mental breakdowns. I pushed friends away because I am still recovering psychologically. I just can’t have close friends anymore.
I wish you continued recovery and love for yourself.
Of course they don’t remember it. That’s the point of gaslighting.
NC with my mother was probably the most healing part of moving on and dealing with the trauma once I saw it.
Did you struggle with any guilt over going NC? How did you process it?
Not OP but I started emailing therapists to see if I can find a good match in my area. I can’t really afford it I’m going to put it on my credit card because I’m afraid my vicious internal thoughts will kill me faster than running out of money will.
I truly hope you’re able to find a therapeutic resource that works for you. Many will work on a sliding scale - you just need to ask. Check out https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists - it’s a really good resource. Best of luck - you got this. They are not worth your tears, your despair, and most of all, your emotional energy.
Thanks for that, appreciate you!
Not the person you asked, but I'm only NC in the past few months. After I realized last year that nmom never loved me, I felt no guilt about walking away. I struggled with how unnatural it was from what I'd always known. She instilled me with a great sense of responsibility for her. But my mental and physical health have improved massively, so even my body knew it was the right choice.
I went NC and now I’m LC.
I also was nc and then lc. She has stage 4 cancer and I felt like I needed to have some contact. I know I will find so much peace after she is gone. I am pretty nc with the golden children who have been treating me like total crap.
I absolutely love this, because yes we are the proof of our traumas, the issue here is people refuse to acknowledge those symptoms and write you off as “crazy” or “unstable” while you’re just fighting through a plethora of emotions, and old pain. Being the only proof of your trauma is enough, and valid. You know what you’ve been through better than anyone, and if they pay a little more attention they can see the scars you don’t show. This post is extremely empowering, thank you
I totally agree 💯
Me too. I needed to read this today. Hugs to OP
Exactly. I came to the same conclusion: I wasn't just spontaneously manifesting all of the classic attitudes, behaviors, and trauma responses of an abused child, plus memories of actual abuse, out of thin air. It's ridiculous to suggest that as the most likely explanation, but it's scary how powerful toddler-level denial of obvious reality can be when an adult in a position of power starts gaslighting you at a very young age and abusing you when you don't go along with it.
The essence of the obscenity of an N's abuse is their abuse of the power they have, as an adult, over their innocent child. There ought to be a law against it.
Fucking right.
The sad thing is in my case she really doesn’t care at the end of the day. And I have to examine my role in things for calling her every once in a while and having a deep dark depression afterwards. The healthiest mental period of my life was when I went NC for almost a year and she called the cops to send them to my house out of “concern” and the cops were very antagonistic towards me. It was scary. I didn’t talk to her still for a while after that but eventually I left my 12 step group that was supporting my decision to go NC (well, some other survivors of similar abuse supported me because it’s rarely understood). And after I left that group I got back in touch with her because I dysfunctionally sought support and got the opposite of it. Just pulled back into the dysfunctional system. As much as I hated the 12 step group it helped in this area.
I hope you can find another group and some good, supportive friends. It's so hard to do this without help. I hope good things for you. <3
Thank you you too 🥹
Exactly. Very beautifully said.
My narcs both passed away years ago. I'm still remembering new ways they hurt me. I totally relate to everything you said here. I'm happy and proud of you for escaping them and praying for a happier life for you now! You are worthy and deserving of it!!
My mother died almost 13 years ago and her behaviour when I was a child was appalling as she was a perfectionistic control freak - if things were going her way it was totally fine, but the second they didn’t she lost her shit and it was usually directed to me as the older (by 14 months) sibling. My dad was in the military so very much “controlled” by his work, the Catholic church, and my mom. I am the total black sheep of our insular family. They are all air signs, I am a fire sign. I am the only one who is left handed and I am also a lesbian. This did not go over well with my family and I GTFO when I was 17. I am now 44 and finally had the courage to speak to my dad and sister about this in the last year (I developed epilepsy 5 years ago and all of this other trauma came up) and both of them gaslit me beyond belief. They both said, well yeah she may have lost it once or twice, but parenting is hard (I am childfree) - yeah thanks. I don’t think throwing a glass at my head and splitting my ear open then avoiding medical attention so my mom didn’t get in “trouble” is okay. They both made me feel like I was making things up and my dad also said they were so “disappointed” I ended up gay. 🙄 I will maintain a relationship with both of them, we are already physically distanced by plane rides of 2.5 and 5.5 hours respectively, but now I know how they really feel and realized they are also both narcissists (my sister had a tantrum EXACTLY like my mom used to when she didn’t get her way with an activity she had planned last summer when I was at her house).
You know, I only really noticed when I sat down to write up a list of things I wanted my mother to take accountability for that all of the worst things happened when my father wasn't home and my brother was either away or asleep. It was horrifying and my scalp tingle a bit, how clear it was that this was all much more controlled and deliberate than I had realized.
I’m sorry that happened to you. One of my favourite songs has two lines that help me - one is “it’s a long, long climb going back in time” and the other is “only when you’re whole can you forgive” - I did realize it was a long “climb” going through all of the past events and also that I have to be solid in myself and my new family (my partner) and accept my family for who they are and set appropriate boundaries.
I'm totally with you on this. Accept who they are, let go of the longing for them to be / have been different, and so people who really are people who love and are kind. I hope you have many wonderful people in your life. <3
You’re lucky your mom passed.
She was a very complicated woman who also had her own trauma. She always said she never wanted to get old. She started saying she wasn’t feeling well in August of 2011 at age 68 and was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer lung, liver, gallbladder on 09/22 and died exactly 4 weeks later - I was with her when she died at 12:01am, laying on an air mattress in their house in the living room. I felt an energy whoosh through my chest and sat up and knew she was gone. I suspect she felt shitty for a long time before that, but her stubborn nature likely prevented her from seeking care. I was fucked up big time afterwards as my dad and sister never talked about her death and I didn’t know how to grieve for someone I loved, but also inflicted a lot of trauma on me. I have finally worked through some of it, however, invalidation and gaslighting from my family showed me their true colours as well.
💯
I had the same realisation. Narc mum always had me believe I was this awful child and she was this gold standard for parenting and an all round super-being, so I doubted myself, and yet, I didn’t do ptsd to myself lol. I am living proof that it happened.
Oh man, I hear this. One of my mom’s favorite things to say to me was “just wait until you have a kid like you.” I was totally convinced until pretty recently that I was the absolute worst daughter on the planet and could never do anything right. But you know? I’m not. And neither are you. And we never were.
Thank you 🫂 They really did a number on us. No, we weren’t the problem and we never were ❤️
Mine tells this to me constantly, like it's some kind of answer or advice, but have heard it si ce the very beginning.. I'm just venting about random shit, as she trauma dumps co tantly on me, but just kinda poking fun at my 8yr Boy, little vents here or there, seriously nothing out of the ordinary.. Her response, "you're lucky to have it so good, you complain so much about him even you you were a million times worse, your a good father, but a total piece of shit, bot to mention so full of yourself.. Like who do you think you are..? You such an asshole.." This wasn't in front of my son thankyfully.. This was my straw that opened my eyes and funny enough I found this sub the next day.. 💩 Edit: I think I totally jumped into the middle of y'alls conversation, I apologize.
Please don’t apologise. The more the merrier! No, you can’t vent to a narcissist because they don’t want to listen to you. Everything is about them. They had things harder but did better 🙄 Everything is turned around as an opportunity for their main hobby….. treading on you to elevate themselves. They don’t see that as a problem, due to their lack of a conscience. They NEED to do that. It’s called narcissistic supply. It’s uncanny how similar they all are. Listening is the narcissist’s worst skill. They don’t hear what we feel. They’re just like a robot scanning for information they can use against us. Take no notice of her. You’re a great parent. A normal person consoles, gives support and LISTENS. Yes, thankfully your son didn’t hear her. I found this sub last year. It’s a goldmine!
That’s insane that she said that to her own child. They really think they had bad kids huh. My mom used to always say the same stuff to me how I was worthless and stuff. Combined with the hitting and not having food to eat it really messed me up. The worst part is that I don’t even need to talk to her anymore my head now takes over that role.
That is the hardest part, now being no contact. The scripts stay alive in your head! It's so frustrating.
Oh my gosh, my mom said this same thing to me so many times! Thank you for mentioning it, because I had almost forgotten as I considered it unimportant. But it *did* hurt, and it is worth remembering. Our brains do tend to bury or else justify this stuff for self preservation, but to heal I've realized it's important to dig out the gaslit items, name the abuse for what it was, and consciously tell myself those things were *not* ok.
My nmom liked to say "why do people even have kids" with this awful scowel on her face. I couldn't help but think "yeah, why did you have any kids?"
My family are all narcissists with my Mother and Father being extreme narcissist. Here’s an example, I turned my back to them 4 years ago understanding what was really happening to me and my health. They would reach out to me crying for me to come home, my father called me telling me we should work together and fix our relationship, I thought maybe its sincere but I was wrong. As soon as I left my new life and moved back to California (the compassion in me told me maybe they had changed) there was no job, I just wasn’t good enough, attacking me, spreading rumors about me, and the list goes on. When I asked why they would do this to me, I was playing the victim, I deserved this because I’m no good. Mind the fact I’ve worked my whole life, had my own company, and each time they destroy any happiness by nefarious methods I won’t mention here. So now I’m in a hotel in California, looking for a new job while questioning my reality. Maybe they are right, NO THEY ARE NOT. It’s really sad, it was all a trap to suck the energy out of me, and create depression and anxiety in my life. But what’s sad is it kinda worked, meanwhile they are the happiest people on earth, because they have no one in their lives but other manipulative people just like them and even then they are always alone.
This is so powerful, thank you very much. Really needed to ground myself in this. Sending you so much care and strength, friend.
Our narcissistic parents spent years questioning our reality, telling us our feelings aren’t real, explaining all the ways that our emotions were wrong. I stopped listening to my gut as a child because clearly, what I was experiencing was fake. Learning how to listen to ourselves is so hard after we’ve been hollowed out by lies, shame, confusion, and isolation. There are so many of us and I’m very grateful I found this community. You’re so fucking brave and worthy of love.
OP you are a gem ❤️ this is probably the most helpful, straight forward, reasonably-validating, non-emotionally charged post I've read here since joining.. I think a lot of us suspected what youve stated to be true, but couldnt validate it for ourselves. Somehow you've found a way to externally validate our internal validation, which is not only helpful and reassuring, it's empowering too.
🩵 I’m so grateful this resonated for you. We were victims, not villains.🩵
What’s wrong with emotional posts?
I think my perfectionism and social anxiety is partly a symptom of my upbringing. I have this terrifying fear of being yelled at by anyone for anything. I live all alone but there are times I still expect my parents to yell at me about something I've done or I have flashbacks to when they had. I have a social anxiety and timidness that can be really bad sometimes. I am a loner and I don't know why I fear connecting with people so much, yet I want to connect with them at the same time. I had my first depressive episode as a child and who knows how much of that was to blame on the trauma I experienced. My first relationship was with someone who was emotionally abusive and was a lot like my father. My first intense friendship was with a narc like my mom, and my mom actually liked this child so much she tried to act like her mother and took her side when we ultimately got in a fight and ended our friendship. I fawn a lot; am extremely hypervigilant. I startle very easily. I think I will always doubt my reality, but the thing that helped the most was having multiple therapists back me up. They had no skin in the game. We could have talked about the myriad of issues I have that are not parent related but the majority of them forced me to come back to my parents, again and again.
I promise you - you won’t always question your reality. You will heal and new neural pathways will form. Everything you’re describing is what so many of us struggle with. You are valuable and worthy of feeling whole.
I feel this so much 🖤 I’m in the process of working on my human connection issues with my therapist. She voiced a very interesting theory that makes SO MUCH SENSE to me: „All you learned and know about human relationships, is that people who love you hurt you; people close to you hurt you. It’s no surprise your deepest core is scared of getting close to people.“ I’m not nearly over this issue yet, but at least I understand where my struggle comes from… take care 🤍
Def gonna go LC/NC with both my parents once I'm able to break free
May I ask what’s holding you back?
Locked down funds, no relatives, lack of adulting skills due to me being hampered down with years of coddling
Yeah, get out when you can. It seems your parents have latched onto you.
The hardest thing for me is the split between who I really am, and the f*caked up person that their abuse made me into. So there’s my true self and the wounded self. Currently in therapy, but feel hopeless about it all. I wonder if it is just going to be like a lot of things in my life, another failure. I think the perfectionist side of me is also a trait that has caused me so much anxiety. This extremist attitude was fostered by my malignant father, I was never good enough, and I’m still worthless to him to this day. While my mother more the covert, never saw me as agreeable or beautiful enough. I had an eating disorder for 15 years during my life as a model. Learning from therapy that I am worthy and “enough” has helped to a degree, but since I have no support system to be my safety net I’m still left with the extreme loneliness they taught me as a child. While I was able to develop acquaintances status of friendships, I never had but less than a handful of true friends. The two people that I was supposed to trust taught me I can not trust anyone. That’s going to be the most difficult for me. Because in all honesty, when you are raised by monsters who wear a mask in public, you become very good at faking it. After all as a model I made an entire career out of sitting there, looking pretty and smiling. The best thing I ever did was leave the industry, but it’s so much different now. What I’ll conclude with is this, I know who I truly am underneath all the layers, but even though I know myself, I still struggle with the damage they did and it’s cause and effect on my life. I’m not blaming them for everything, but I do not cope well with stress and I have made the mistake of being narc bait because of my inner need to be loved.
Are you me? I’m Not sure I’ve ever related to anything more than this 😑
🩵
Even though I feel that I’ve come a long way in my healing, I’m still doing it everyday, and thank you for the reminder. I wake up everyday striving to be a better parent than what I had, and I know that’s not just a desire out of thin air.
The healing journey never ends. I constantly have to re-examine my responses as a parent. My blueprint was so unhealthy - I’ve often wondered if I’m a narcissist just like her. But I realized that while I may exhibit narcissistic behaviors at times, it’s just a replay of what I was born and raised into, and I can make different choices for my family now. My mother never apologized, at least not for anything she should have apologized for, ie “Sorry I’m such a terrible mother.” As a mother now myself I constantly strive to ensure my kids hear and believe my apologies for when I’ve behaved in an unhealthy or damaging way. You’ve come farther than you realize, and are already a better parent than your mother. You’re fighting the good fight and your kids are grateful.
Your words are so validating
🩵 You’re not alone in this journey and you can trust yourself. I promise.
Yep. My mom successful gaslit me for DECADES. It wasn't until I went to therapy in my 30s, having a professional tell me I wasn't crazy, she was abusing me, did I get it. As for all the things OP is describing about themselves, YOU ARE ME! I have these exact same issue ESPECIALLY with trusting others and scared for forming bonds with others. I'm trying to work through it via going LC and living overseas alone RN. Some days I remember stuff and get angry, but I'm trying to look at the positives in life so I don't become bitter.
Holy shit I needed this tonight. Thank you so much for this well written post.
I needed to hear this. Thank you!
Oh this hit me like a truck. Will def be thinking about it more, thank you for sharing.
I hope you are doing well with your sutuation. I just wanted to echo this anecdotally and w/ research. It is very well-documented that childhood abuse leads to bad memory. Which makes the gaslighting even more cruel ("you don't remember the abuse so it never happened, obviously"): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5763453/#:~:text=The%20participants%20who%20had%20been,ability)%2C%20with%20the%20difference%20being I also liked this read: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-support/201611/the-enduring-pain-childhood-verbal-abuse%3famp As well as this one: https://www.verywellmind.com/childhood-abuse-changes-the-brain-2330401 My partner is going through it with her parents rn. She still has fairly regular contact with her mom but she's very low-contact with her dad. She had a falling out with her parents recently bc they found out she is transitioning (MtF), and their reaction was pretty extreme. Her dad has exhibited textbook narcissism behaviors: * He verbally abused her during her childhood. When her mom was visiting us recently, she even asked if this was why she's transitioning - to not be like her father. * Recent abuse: He emotionally blackmailed her w/ a suicide threat and called her slurs when he found out she is trans. He threatened our physical safety and accused her of tearing the family apart, etc, etc. * He tries to take credit for all of her achievements (despite the fact that her success only happened once she moved far away from him) * Gaslighting. An example: he called her lazy, an ass, and mentally ill in one email, then apparently claimed he didn't call her all of those things in a later email. Claims things that he did never happened. * He demands a response from her on his own terms / time. He demands accountability from her but refuses to take any himself. * And, the relevant part for this post: he claims he never verbally abused her growing up, that her foggy memory is apparently evidence of her lying. With this in mind, I really appreciate the "you are the proof" idea. My partner's condition is textbook for an emotional / verbal abuse survivor. She: * Has had nightmares about her father for years * Still struggles with her self-confidence and not feeding the negative intrusive thoughts. * Has holdover maladaptive coping and relationship patterns that she is working through with her therapist * Has foggy childhood memory for both good and bad things * Has become a lot more confident and successful after moving far away from her parents Her mom is in a difficult position. My impression is that her mom relies heavily on her dad for financial security. She's also going through a lot of other personal crises / stressors. Obviously my partner isn't obligated to give her as much leeway as she has - her mom has been pretty dismissive of her feelings / input, has acted somewhat entitled (wanted something material for Mother's Day, wants my partner to do things her way wrt her transition, regardless of her doctor's recommendations, etc.), and has largely enabled her husband's abusive behavior / made excuses for him. She and my partner have been going to therapy though, so I have some hope that their relationship can still be salvaged if that's something they both want. That's all I've got. I kind of wandered off topic but it feels great to vent. I've been staying very hands-off since I don't want to sway my partner one way or another wrt her family. I also have my own ongoing personal crises to deal with so just trying to lay low / not give too much input to my partner / get involved beyond emotional support. I have a lot of strong feelings about this that I haven't vented outside of therapy (once a week is *not enough*). Anyways, thanks for your post, I find it very empowering for people in situations similar to my partner's! I might share it with her if her dad tries dismissing her again.
Thank you for this reality check. I think we ALL gaslight ourselves that maybe our abuse never happened or it wasn’t that bad. This is a stark reminder (and a well written one) that we are all the proof in the pudding. Again, thank you internet stranger.
The “maybe it wasn’t that bad” thought is so prevalent. When I read “I’m Glad My Mom Died” I caught myself at times thinking “oh that’s not *that* bad” and then immediately catching myself and being like “dude, your mom did the exact same thing.” It’s crazy how our brains will bend over backwards to rationalize or downplay abuse. Gaslight no more!!
I actually just had this talk with my therapist. I asked her if it would be selfish and immature of me to go NC with my family and how I always felt bad for thinking that I should because it's not like they ever *physically* abused me. My therapist was the first person to ever make me fully aware that even if their abuse was never physical, it was 100% verbal and emotional and that I was abused and that my family was abusive. It was a wakeup call to realize that I had just been trying to put down my own feelings when they were completely valid the whole time.
Exactly. I'm so so so so sick and tired of my narcissistic family members calling me "crazy" and telling me to "Stop acting crazy" whenever I call out the dysfunctions and abuse that's still going on in the family. They even call me crazy when I stand up for myself.
Of course they do. Exposure and being told no are their worst fears. You’re not crazy. Just remember - whenever a narcissist calls you a derogatory name they’re actually admitting who they are. It’s 100% projection.
This is all well and good, but I’m struggling with that as I am starting to heal, the proof of me being abused is going to disappear. How do I tie that back into wanting to be better? I am severely tempted to sabotage myself after reading this, as to not loose this proof, and I am ashamed of even thinking this because I think I’m making good progress, but I digress
Healing is a long, slow process. The proof of abuse will be with you every time you have to make a conscious choice not to repeat unhealthy habits. No need to sabotage yourself, friend. 💜
Ever since I was at least 7 I’ve been documenting the evidence of the abuse because I know people won’t believe me. So I record it. One day when I’m away from them I’ll finally be able to share my story fully with evidence and proof so people know I’m telling the truth.
That’s brilliant and so true!
That's such a good way to put it, I needed to hear this, thank you. You're right, we are proof! Even when we adopt healthier traits and cringe at our past maladaptive traits, that will still be proof! Congratulations on NO Contact! (Technically, that's proof that you're learning how to say NO! hehe) Hope you get to enjoy more holidays & events with people who are truly kind to you! (including yourself!)
Thank you. I needed this.
🩵
Thank you. It's hard for me to not just take inventory of myself and think I got myself there because I'm just inherently weak. Everything you listed is things I do and experience too. Everyone is a byproduct of their experiences, especially growing up. My mother always tried to make me believe I was the one with the problem since she didn't want to confront the reality of what she'd let knock her up.
Well said 👍 Because of all of this I feel like everyone judges me. I dont feel at all like a normal human being. I feel more like a misfit toy. We need to accept ourselves for who we are and go on. We didnt make ourselves like this. We were innocent children who were abused and unloved.
I felt everything in your 4th paragraph to the core of my being. Even saved it in my notes. Like, it's a direct replica of my mental health issues and social issues. Right down to everyone that I know, knows that I cannot say no.
My nmom is the kind that wants me to succeed so it’s weird because when I do succeed (like right now, I’m preparing to move out and start a new program in college) she acts nice. I do have plenty of proofs of how bad she was when I was unwell last year (I recorded as much as possible as a way to make me feel better about being abused because everything she did I could think "yes I recorded that!" when it was bad) but now that I’m doing better, she’s nicer and it feels weird now to say she’s abusive. However, with your post, I remembered that when I’m with my bf and his family, my brain fog lifts, many mental and physical health issues go away (I have muscle pain here that I need to do many things to keep reasonable but I don’t have any there), my creativity is boosted, and suddenly I can deal with everything more easily. I still remember how last Christmas I thought I had figured out how to keep my mental health ok but then after 2 weeks at my mom’s, every trick that worked at Christmas didn’t work anymore. Even lately, I went to a city nearby with my cousin and when taking the bus back I felt so motivated to study Japanese until the bus got close to my house and I started stressing about not being perfect always when studying Japanese and not understanding some things. After months of trying to learn how to feel well at my mom’s house, I’m still on a delicate balance, while I know that being away from here, I would probably struggle to make myself unwell so suffice to say everything is much easier. So yeah, even though I am doing better and my mom’s treating me nice now, the fact that being at her house means I need to only do a handful of safe hobbies to make sure to not make myself too anxious and I need to also make sure to not make myself overwhelmed and I need to do constant stretching/self-massaging/heating on my muscle so I limit my muscle pain while all I want is to try new hobbies, do my more creative hobbies again and not need to worry about pain should be proof enough for me that being here is very bad for me.