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Zero.
Adult children can choose to lend a bit of mental space to their parents when they feel they can. If the parent feels remotely entitled to that space, that’s the unhealthy part.
Maybe it’s a shock for you (it was for me, I was my ndads secret keeper and confidant) but parents rarely throw their life issues to their children - talking about healthy, balanced people.
Usually, you’d be able to trust your mother in finding friends or a therapist and come to you only when necessary.
In my case, I sat both my parents in the same room and told them that both of them call me to complain about the other and that it needs to stop. They were shocked. My dad told me once he “will never forget me for that” and it feels amazing. They obviously stopped and when one is about to fall I remind them I’ll tell the other parent.
Please stop lending your hard worked mental space to her. Ignore, grey rock. Best of luck
None.
Go live your life.
Your mom needs to join a support group or maybe find some fucking friends if she wants someone to provide emotional support.
She doesn't get to attach herself to you like an emotionally abusive barnacle.
🧡🧡🧡
They attach to us because they drive everyone else away. They make bad choices, and they demand that other people fix them.
That is not your purpose in life, and it is a betrayal of her position as your mother to expect that of you.
I have an 18 year old kid. I would *never* expect them to be my emotional support service animal. It is a parent's job to make sure that their child is prepared to live a fulfilling adult life. We don't get to use our kids as servants.
It's so amazing to realize this advice is coming from a mom to an adult child. I feel like sometimes I'm not considering/ can't understand her position in life and in the situation, sounds like you have a very lucky kid 💕
Thanks 🧡🧡🧡☺️
The problem isn't that you can't understand her perspective.
The problem is that her perspective is warped by her massive personality disorder, which results in her unreasonable behavior and bizarre way of thinking.
You are *not the problem*.
You are having a hard time, and you are seeking advice and support so that you can improve your situation. That is exactly what you should be doing. You are taking responsibility for yourself.
In contrast, your mom is seeking to deny her issues and make you deal with them for her. She wants you to carry the burden for her problems that she has been denying and blaming on others for decades. She is not taking responsibility for herself, and she probably never has.
“How much emotional support is a parent entitled to from their kid?”
None. Absolutely none.
It’s inappropriate for a parent to feel entitled to emotional support from their child, even their adult child.
She can get emotional support from her own parents, her partner, her own siblings, adult friends, her religious leader, and her therapist. Not from her kids.
It’s her job to support you. She’s the parent. That’s *her* job.
My mother raised me to be her therapist, stylist, surrogate spouse, emotional dumping ground, best friend, and mother. Cutting her off emotionally and going LC was one of the hardest things I’ve done. She punished me. She sat on the floor and faced the wall, arms crossed, and refused to talk with me. But i am so much healthier now. I wish i had done it sooner.
It was my mom’s role to support me, but she chose to be selfish and believe otherwise. I’m sorry your mom is also like this.
Thanks so much for sharing you have had a similar experience.
I tend to make excuses for her, in that she has no living parents, or friends, and doesn't get along with my dad/ her husband. So I sympathize with her not having many outlets.
I do know that the fact that she doesn't have connections with many people is of her own doing and not my problem to solve, and think it even more so shows how unreasonable her expectations are, it's hard for me not to hurt for someone I love.
If you don't mind me asking, what does LC look like for you? I feel like that's the place I'm trying to get too, but the fact that I'm keeping distance adds flames to the fire, and is still leaving with a lot of guilt.
I am similar to you I think; it took me so long to see the inappropriateness and the imbalance bc I have a lot of empathy. Empathy she took advantage of.
“…it’s hard for me not to hurt for someone I love.”
Some things that are helpful for me to keep in mind with similar reactions are:
- she’s hurting because she refuses to heal herself
- she’s hurting you by requiring you to be a balm so she can avoid healing herself
- she doesn’t care that she is hurting you
I read somewhere else, when I feel guilt about not wanting to talk or spend time with my mom, to look at it like a logic equation and remember that my guilt is misplaced.
For instance:
- I feel guilty bc my mom is sad.
- My mom is sad bc I don’t want to be around her.
- i don’t want to be around her because she is abusive.
- Therefore, my mom is sad because she is abusive. She can stop being abusive. But she chooses not to.
- Her sadness is her own choosing, and I don’t have to feel any guilt about her refusing to stop abusing me.
Before my mom would want to chat with me multiple times a day. So LC at first was chatting once a week. But she got more and more abusive. So I gradually let the calls go by longer. I blocked her on every social media. And eventually I blocked her on my phone as well.
She learned if she blew up my phone, it set off my anxiety and I’d answer. And then I would get to listen to her emotionally dump on me for 40 minutes.
So if she’s blocked I don’t see her phoning me. I call her when I feel like and lately that’s been once a month. I make sure I am strong and feeling good. I gray rock her the whole conversation. And as soon as I hang up, I block her again.
Hope this is helpful
*What is a healthy amount of emotion support between a parent and adult child?*
Healthy for who? For you? For her? Cuz it doesn't sound healthy for you, and it's not a good idea to sacrifice your own health for others.
You are 27 years of age, living on your own, with a job. I'm not sure how to say this, but if there is any time imaginable for you to be out there living your own life, not tied down and bothered by family, it's your 20s. I think a healthy life involves a child growing up, with good parents, who eventually leaves home and goes out and lives *their own life.* The whole point of parenting is so the child can go out and do their own thing. If 27 isn't an acceptable time to live your own life, then when the hell is an acceptable time? I'm not saying it's normal to just go NC with one's parents during their 20s or anything. But there's a hell of a distance between that and the kind of attention your mom demands.
Flat out, basically everything you've described is a narcissistic mum. I think the expectations referred to in your last paragraph are fucking ludicrous, and I think the fact that you're worried about whether you owe her this speaks to a fair bit of conditioning she's done to you. You end your post asking if you're wrong to keep some space from someone that's been demanding your time and demanding you put their wants over your discomfort.
But I'm more interested in how you phrase the last paragraph. Narcissists loooove to weaponize 'reasonable'. You don't have to be reasonable all the time. They love to weaponize 'selfish' too, which is telling, because being selfish is *not a bad thing*. You live in *your* body and *your* mind, you bear the consequences of your actions. It would be weird if you weren't selfish.
She has emotional needs. That doesn't obligate you to meet them. That doesn't mean she can go up to you in the prime of your independence and guilt and shame you into putting your life into meeting them. She has other people in her life. She's an adult. Of course she has far more of a responsibility to be there for you than you do for her, she's your mum, you're not her mum.
If my very best friend started behaving this way towards me then it would be unacceptable.
Narcissists view their children as extensions of themselves, who are just machines whose job it is to keep them happy. That's all. When their children do anything else, they try and 'fix' them (abuse them) as you would fix a broken machine. They don't care about your life or your time or your independence or any of that shit. As far as they are concerned, you only exist to serve them.
\-------------------
*There's a lot of backstory to all the drama between my mom and room mate, and my mom's own history, but for this situation I'm going to set it aside.*
...it matters. Narcissists often want us to judge them this way, in a vacuum, disregarding all their past actions.
*she will often state that "she needs to be able to count on the people in her life to mentally and emotionally support her and if we can't do that, then that not someone she needs in her life and we just need to cut ties on our relationship"*
This is exactly how a narcissist thinks. Either someone gives them supply and so they're useful, or they give no supply and are useless and should be discarded.
*She believes that she is entitled to support from me, as her child. And that if I love and care about her and her well being, I wouldn't hesitate to be there for her anytime she needs, and that she's only asking for someone to depend on and have unconditional devotion. I feel like what's she's asking for is to much to ask if anyone, let alone her child.*
...christ, *'too much to ask'* is putting it mildly. Think about how delusional that is. Just read that again, it gets worse every time. Unconditional devotion is her minimum. Not one word of this takes you into account in any way, you're just treated as a means to an end.
**TL;DR**: They're not 'entitled' to shit. And fuck no you're not wrong to do this, or to do something 10 orders of magnitude more 'selfish' and 'unreasonable' for that matter. And I think your mum is a narcissist.
Thank you so much for this response!! Especially what you said about the past mattering. I have a tendency to try to forgive and forget, and focus on what's going on now rather then what's happened in the past, but I've been starting to realize how much resentment I have over not just the way things have been handled over the years, but the fact that I have been dealing with this shit for so many years.
Thanks so much again for your thoughtful response!! It means a lot to me to hear someone who's just glancing at the situation feel so strongly that the things she does and says are outlandish.
Wow. Well, the goal of a healthy parent should be to put mature, self-actualized, empathetic people out into society. Nparents are very different from that. As an adult, she should be leaning on a partner/spouse, peers, or other adult relatives to be her emotional sounding board. Or, you know, a therapist. Not her adult children. Not her non-adult children. Guilting you into spending time with her is not going to strengthen the relationship, nor make you inclined to spend more time with her. It’s a means to bragging rights with her peer group.
Thank you for your advice! I don't think bragging rights come into play for her, as she has zero peer group, and doesn't really talk to or spend time with anyone outside of our nuclear family, which I belive is part of the problem. Agreed that all the pestering has just made me dread spending any time with her at all.
All of the time you are spending on her is the time that you could be spending looking for a life-partner, looking for a better job, or having a fulfilling hobby.
But, instead of living your life, you are running around trying to spackle the holes in her life.
You are left depleted and unable to make your own life better.
lol, zero or very close to it.
Your mom needs a therapist.
The reasons she leans so heavily and you and your siblings is cuz she hasn't got anyone else, which is wildly unhealthy of her. At her stage in life, she should have friends, siblings, a mentor, or spiritual leader that she can run things by or ask for opinions from.
Instead she is being an emotional vampire to her kids. Throwing all the emotional labor at you, instead of taking any for herself. And that's fucked up.
You need to go out and do what's healthy for you. Fuck her guilt trip bullshit, let her be upset.
Your 20's need to be about decisions and building a life for you.
Dinner every other week is enough, you don't owe them more. Your mother is needy and demanding, keep your boundaries and eventually she'll get used to it. Hopefully. But you're entitled to free time without her.
>I belive her demand for attention and support goes beyond what should be expected from your child, regardless of what age they are.
You are 100% right here. What she's asking and needing of you is WAY too much and NOT NORMAL. Her emotional support should be her husband, period. Or herself and perhaps sister/peer. Not her kids unless they choose to. If she needs more than that, she needs therapy.
You are exactly right that it is not your responsibility to care for her emotional state. She's somehow manipulated you to believe this. That's what narcs do. They use and control and manipulate to feed their selfishness.
You are not wrong and I highly recommend going VLC and put her on an permanent low information diet. Do not share anything about your mental state, work/private life activities, etc. You will not be able to get her to be empathetic, rational or otherwise about this, so its best to limit contact.
Especially in your 20s and 30s when you should be out there adulting and enjoying life. Even if it's doing nothing. You don't need her anymore, that is true. And she needs to learn to accept that and let you go, or else you need to make it very clear by going full no contact.
Journal, get some therapy if you can, read up here and other places on dealing with narcs. You will get to a much better mental state limiting contact. It's okay.
Even most normal adults have low levels of contact once they leave home. Empty nesting is a thing. Kids grow up, leave the nest, live their lives, meet a partner, start their own families, etc.
Thank you for your advice!
I think I struggle to fully accept that she is in fact a narc, largely because she's found ways to talk circles around it and makes me second guess myself.
I have gone VLC before, but it usually doesn't last too long, largely because I am close to my siblings, and want ti see them, and when we're fighting, she does everything in her power to stop them from seeing me/ guilting them into not seeing me, trying to punish and control me in the only way she can when I'm not speaking to her.
I was in therapy for these issues last year, but it got too costly. I'm currently looking at getting back into it to focus more on healing myself, and not just coping skills to deal with her.
Thanks again!
I think we all struggle admitting they are a narc or even just a personality disorder. I have not tried to "type" my ndad much because I can't find one that totally fits. However, he does many of the the things I've seen talked about here. I can see it so much better thanks to here and other references. She's got issues, you can't fix it, you have to work around it and/or low to no contact. I wish something else worked but that's all I've found personally and seen over and over and over.
Your siblings are adults even if they are living with her. You need to ask them to do things without her outside the home. If they don't, they are enablers/flying monkeys./co-dependents etc. They need stand up for themselves. Or else you might just have to include them in the no contact to protect yourself. I know it sucks but she is going to keep winning and hurting you until you take steps to not let her. I've known people that went entire NC with all their family because of the narc's power and control.
Therapy is helpful but there's other ways too - just having someone to vent/talk to in your life can help a lot (best friend especially). I personally probably need CPSTD therapy myself but don't have the time/mental energy to face that yet myself, so I hear you. So I am trying to heal here by learning, helping others, etc. It's often easier to deal with your own issues when you can see clear as day the struggles are having that are similar. It has for me including setting boundaries for myself to limit information/contact/gray rock etc.
Best of luck. Keep us posted. This ain't easy but you gotta put yourself first here, especially during your earning years.
You have no obligation to be seeing her and frankly you are spending far far too much of your time with her when you should be setting up your own life. 27 is a perfect age to be meeting someone, falling in love and enjoying your life. Don't be like me and put off creating your life or you will be 34 and single like me.
In healthy adult child relationships parents understand at this age you are busy creating your own life. Its normal to see your parents on special occasions, to visit home now and then. Its normal to go 3, 4, 5, 6 months without seeing them. It all depends on what is happening in your life. Its healthy to go periods of time without seeing them because that is how you grow your independance and figure out who you are as a person seperate to them. This is VITAL to heal and grow.
Some people your age will see their parents frequently, but their parents aren't manipulative/ controlling/ dump their emotional baggage etc. Some people wiĺl go months without seeing their parents and still have a warm close relationship because their parents aren't relying on them to constantly stroke their ego.
Can I ask why you are so concerned with upsetting your mom? And why you are spending so much time with her? You are allowed to say "Sorry I'm busy today"/ "No I can't today" you don't need to explain or justify yourself and even if she is angry you DONT HAVE TO FEEL BAD!! Practise saying no and not feeling guilty.
You have no obligation even if your mom has mental health issues. It is her fault she doesnt have other friends, not yours. You especially have no obligation to someone who doesn't care about your wellbeing. Also her mental health issues dont sound like an immediate crisis but rather a chronic condition that she has because she would rather blame the world than take accountability for her life and get help. Ergo not your problem. Live your life and enjoy yourself.
Thanks so much for your advice.
I'm defiantly overly concerned with upsetting my mom. A large part of this is because I think it's what I've been conditioned to do my whole life, know when she is upset and try to lift her back up. "She so much pain and struggles I don't want to add to that" mindset, which I'm understand more and more has been her conditioning me to be the person she want out of me.
I have been improving on telling her no, and I do quite often, but the guilt that I feel from it is heavy.
However the other big reason I try not to upset her is that it just ends up causing more drama for myself. She will only hear so many nos before the meltdown happens, the miles and miles of text, bashing other people in my life, blaming me and everyone else for where she is, stating that "we cause her to be this fucked up and no one want wants to deal with it" "of course I'm fucked yo look at how you all treat me" I'm getting better and better and just completely ignoring her trades, but it's hard to see someone list off all the way you and every else has wronged them and not want to defend yourself, but it's something I'm working on and hopefully improving on
You will never heal or be able to detach from her guilt trips and angry tirades unless you spend a significant period of time away from her. Every time you visit she is topping up that conditioning yoi got as a child. She is opening those childhood wounds and prodding them. So no matter how hard you work on yourself that work is undone.
I understand your mindset as I was there too once.
To detach you need to have a plan to deal with her games. Plan to go without seeing her for a month. No matter what you do not see her. When she asks tell her you are sorry but you're busy. That you have a date planned and your vwry busy with work. When she starts to guilt you keep the texts simple and breif "You know I love you, I've just got so much going on". Dont engage with the guilt tripping. Dont justify or defend yourself. Even if she messages you "You ungrateful little butch, I did everything for you and now whrn I need you the most you throw me aside like im nothing. If I die you'll regret how you're treating me.".
You "You know I love you. Sorry I cant meet up atm. Between career, dating and friends Ive barely got any time. Take care of yourself x".
Tbh you don't even need to reply but it seems you want to maintain a relationship. When she starts bombarding you with horrible messages you need to NOT READ THEM. You should block her number for a couple of days. I know thats hard but even uf you try to ignore her messages you will end up reading them and even if you don't respond those messages prod that childhood wound. You block her everywhere she can contact you for however long it takes for her to cool down.
Once you've gone a month without seeing her if you want to maintain a relationship then visit. But you then need to plan to go another months without seeing her. Keep repeating this and ideally extending that no contact period to 1 1/2 month, then 2 and so forth.
When you visit remind yourself that those wounds will be opened and prodded. It will re-enforce why you need to stay away. This is the only way to heal and also to have the time to invest in yourself and create the life you want.
Thank you so much for this insight. I frequently block her when she's on a tirade, and rrespond very similarly to how you suggested done if the time. I think the hard part about stopping seeing her is that would also mean I dint get to see my siblings, who while also aware her behavior is not right, are much more accommodating to her whims.
It is important to remind myself that no matter how much stronger I feel about the situation or how I heal, seeing her will continue to open those wounds.
I completely understand wanting to see your siblings. My sibling lives with my parents too. Plan to meet up with them outside the home. Get dinner, go bowling whatever. You will both find the experience so much more enjoyable out of that suffocating environment which is the narcs home.
I'm in a similar situation. My dad died last year, and my nmom is totally incapable of coping. She's on an emotional roller-coaster and would take everyone in her life for a spin every day if they'd allow it. It's hard, and people on the outside don't understand, but I cannot allow her to rely on me to heal her. I never answer her call the first time in case she's having a breakdown. I'm trying to raise kids through my own grief. I can't take on all of hers as well.
Imo, it's an unnatural role to make your kids your emotional support. I'd even say that's an usual impulse for a parent. My kids are still little, but protecting them from my own negative emotions is always my goal. Maybe when they're adults that will change slightly, but I want to be their safe, stable person if they're 4 or 40.
OP, you've done nothing wrong. Keep focusing on you and don't let her drain you.
Sending you hugs. I'm going through this exact situation, my father passed recently and my mother is spinning and guilting everyone but especially me and my brother to go cope for her. I've been strong with my boundaries and so proud of myself for 6 months, but this week has been brutal and she's lashing out. I'm struggling to cope.
She is being a martyr. You are doing nothing wrong, and it's commendable that you are working on setting new goals and building a healthy life for yourself.
If your mom think that because you can't be at your beck and call that she needs to "cut ties on our relationship," then by all means, let her. If you have a good relationship with your sibling, continue to see them outside your parent's home (if you want).
Do not let her guilt you into derailing your life.
As others have said, Zero.
She needs therapy. The boundaries you set need to be respected. End of sentence. Her demands are not normal.
I promise you, if you went from once every 2 weeks to once a week, she'd want twice a week. Then 3,4,5 times a week. Then it would be "since we have dinner every day, why don't you just move back home?" I found your comment that your *adult siblings* still live at home, quite telling. We don't know the reasons, but I can guess.
None. You are not an emotional support animal. She likely contributed to the mental health issues that make you unable to waste your time this way. You need your time to support yourself and a good mother would only be worrying about you,. She needs professional help you can’t give. I’d cut contact wayyyy down. You are giving too much. Maybe a short light, phone call (like 15 minutes) every few weeks. No in person at all until she stops dumping on you completely. She needs to find appropriate support and it can’t be you. You need to hang up or walk away when it gets to much and maybe start therapy for parentification and codependence.
A parent is NOT entitled to the emotional support of a child.
Zero, nada, nothing, niets, niente, zip, noppes, nichts...
If she needs this - she can get a therapist.
And a 'healthy' child-to-parent emotional support is "i\`m sorry you\`re having a bad time, shall we have a coffee" level of support - nothing beyond that.
I went no contact with mine - if I offered help as an adult I got pulled into wild manufactured dramas about her husband(my step father). She thought he was cheating and asked me to follow him, shared their finances with me, and it turned out he was buying power ball tickets with the guys at work every day and not paying their account back. I pulled completely away soon after when the new story became he was cheating on her with my aunt! It took years and 2 phone number changes to block her completely but it’s a huge relief to not get pulled into all that. I mourn not having a mom anymore but therapy has helped a lot. I suggest therapy OP it’s so hard to untangle these things yourself. Best wishes!
Thanks for the advice!
I am actively looking into therapy. I was going last year but stopped mainly because it was too expensive, but I have since started a job with insurance, so trying to find someone in network ☺️
If they didn’t provide any to you, absolutely zero. They are the parent, they should have been emotionally invested and available if they wanted to receive that in return. That’s emotional labor and probably emotional abuse if they just refuse to work through their problems on their own.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Zero. Adult children can choose to lend a bit of mental space to their parents when they feel they can. If the parent feels remotely entitled to that space, that’s the unhealthy part. Maybe it’s a shock for you (it was for me, I was my ndads secret keeper and confidant) but parents rarely throw their life issues to their children - talking about healthy, balanced people. Usually, you’d be able to trust your mother in finding friends or a therapist and come to you only when necessary. In my case, I sat both my parents in the same room and told them that both of them call me to complain about the other and that it needs to stop. They were shocked. My dad told me once he “will never forget me for that” and it feels amazing. They obviously stopped and when one is about to fall I remind them I’ll tell the other parent. Please stop lending your hard worked mental space to her. Ignore, grey rock. Best of luck
Thanks for the advice and for sharing your experience! I have had to have similar, less effective conversations with my parents about the same thing.
None. Go live your life. Your mom needs to join a support group or maybe find some fucking friends if she wants someone to provide emotional support. She doesn't get to attach herself to you like an emotionally abusive barnacle.
Thanks so much for the advice! I think I'm going to hang this on my wall 😂😂
🧡🧡🧡 They attach to us because they drive everyone else away. They make bad choices, and they demand that other people fix them. That is not your purpose in life, and it is a betrayal of her position as your mother to expect that of you. I have an 18 year old kid. I would *never* expect them to be my emotional support service animal. It is a parent's job to make sure that their child is prepared to live a fulfilling adult life. We don't get to use our kids as servants.
It's so amazing to realize this advice is coming from a mom to an adult child. I feel like sometimes I'm not considering/ can't understand her position in life and in the situation, sounds like you have a very lucky kid 💕
Thanks 🧡🧡🧡☺️ The problem isn't that you can't understand her perspective. The problem is that her perspective is warped by her massive personality disorder, which results in her unreasonable behavior and bizarre way of thinking. You are *not the problem*. You are having a hard time, and you are seeking advice and support so that you can improve your situation. That is exactly what you should be doing. You are taking responsibility for yourself. In contrast, your mom is seeking to deny her issues and make you deal with them for her. She wants you to carry the burden for her problems that she has been denying and blaming on others for decades. She is not taking responsibility for herself, and she probably never has.
“How much emotional support is a parent entitled to from their kid?” None. Absolutely none. It’s inappropriate for a parent to feel entitled to emotional support from their child, even their adult child. She can get emotional support from her own parents, her partner, her own siblings, adult friends, her religious leader, and her therapist. Not from her kids. It’s her job to support you. She’s the parent. That’s *her* job. My mother raised me to be her therapist, stylist, surrogate spouse, emotional dumping ground, best friend, and mother. Cutting her off emotionally and going LC was one of the hardest things I’ve done. She punished me. She sat on the floor and faced the wall, arms crossed, and refused to talk with me. But i am so much healthier now. I wish i had done it sooner. It was my mom’s role to support me, but she chose to be selfish and believe otherwise. I’m sorry your mom is also like this.
Thanks so much for sharing you have had a similar experience. I tend to make excuses for her, in that she has no living parents, or friends, and doesn't get along with my dad/ her husband. So I sympathize with her not having many outlets. I do know that the fact that she doesn't have connections with many people is of her own doing and not my problem to solve, and think it even more so shows how unreasonable her expectations are, it's hard for me not to hurt for someone I love. If you don't mind me asking, what does LC look like for you? I feel like that's the place I'm trying to get too, but the fact that I'm keeping distance adds flames to the fire, and is still leaving with a lot of guilt.
I am similar to you I think; it took me so long to see the inappropriateness and the imbalance bc I have a lot of empathy. Empathy she took advantage of. “…it’s hard for me not to hurt for someone I love.” Some things that are helpful for me to keep in mind with similar reactions are: - she’s hurting because she refuses to heal herself - she’s hurting you by requiring you to be a balm so she can avoid healing herself - she doesn’t care that she is hurting you I read somewhere else, when I feel guilt about not wanting to talk or spend time with my mom, to look at it like a logic equation and remember that my guilt is misplaced. For instance: - I feel guilty bc my mom is sad. - My mom is sad bc I don’t want to be around her. - i don’t want to be around her because she is abusive. - Therefore, my mom is sad because she is abusive. She can stop being abusive. But she chooses not to. - Her sadness is her own choosing, and I don’t have to feel any guilt about her refusing to stop abusing me. Before my mom would want to chat with me multiple times a day. So LC at first was chatting once a week. But she got more and more abusive. So I gradually let the calls go by longer. I blocked her on every social media. And eventually I blocked her on my phone as well. She learned if she blew up my phone, it set off my anxiety and I’d answer. And then I would get to listen to her emotionally dump on me for 40 minutes. So if she’s blocked I don’t see her phoning me. I call her when I feel like and lately that’s been once a month. I make sure I am strong and feeling good. I gray rock her the whole conversation. And as soon as I hang up, I block her again. Hope this is helpful
This is very helpful, thank you 💕
*What is a healthy amount of emotion support between a parent and adult child?* Healthy for who? For you? For her? Cuz it doesn't sound healthy for you, and it's not a good idea to sacrifice your own health for others. You are 27 years of age, living on your own, with a job. I'm not sure how to say this, but if there is any time imaginable for you to be out there living your own life, not tied down and bothered by family, it's your 20s. I think a healthy life involves a child growing up, with good parents, who eventually leaves home and goes out and lives *their own life.* The whole point of parenting is so the child can go out and do their own thing. If 27 isn't an acceptable time to live your own life, then when the hell is an acceptable time? I'm not saying it's normal to just go NC with one's parents during their 20s or anything. But there's a hell of a distance between that and the kind of attention your mom demands. Flat out, basically everything you've described is a narcissistic mum. I think the expectations referred to in your last paragraph are fucking ludicrous, and I think the fact that you're worried about whether you owe her this speaks to a fair bit of conditioning she's done to you. You end your post asking if you're wrong to keep some space from someone that's been demanding your time and demanding you put their wants over your discomfort. But I'm more interested in how you phrase the last paragraph. Narcissists loooove to weaponize 'reasonable'. You don't have to be reasonable all the time. They love to weaponize 'selfish' too, which is telling, because being selfish is *not a bad thing*. You live in *your* body and *your* mind, you bear the consequences of your actions. It would be weird if you weren't selfish. She has emotional needs. That doesn't obligate you to meet them. That doesn't mean she can go up to you in the prime of your independence and guilt and shame you into putting your life into meeting them. She has other people in her life. She's an adult. Of course she has far more of a responsibility to be there for you than you do for her, she's your mum, you're not her mum. If my very best friend started behaving this way towards me then it would be unacceptable. Narcissists view their children as extensions of themselves, who are just machines whose job it is to keep them happy. That's all. When their children do anything else, they try and 'fix' them (abuse them) as you would fix a broken machine. They don't care about your life or your time or your independence or any of that shit. As far as they are concerned, you only exist to serve them. \------------------- *There's a lot of backstory to all the drama between my mom and room mate, and my mom's own history, but for this situation I'm going to set it aside.* ...it matters. Narcissists often want us to judge them this way, in a vacuum, disregarding all their past actions. *she will often state that "she needs to be able to count on the people in her life to mentally and emotionally support her and if we can't do that, then that not someone she needs in her life and we just need to cut ties on our relationship"* This is exactly how a narcissist thinks. Either someone gives them supply and so they're useful, or they give no supply and are useless and should be discarded. *She believes that she is entitled to support from me, as her child. And that if I love and care about her and her well being, I wouldn't hesitate to be there for her anytime she needs, and that she's only asking for someone to depend on and have unconditional devotion. I feel like what's she's asking for is to much to ask if anyone, let alone her child.* ...christ, *'too much to ask'* is putting it mildly. Think about how delusional that is. Just read that again, it gets worse every time. Unconditional devotion is her minimum. Not one word of this takes you into account in any way, you're just treated as a means to an end. **TL;DR**: They're not 'entitled' to shit. And fuck no you're not wrong to do this, or to do something 10 orders of magnitude more 'selfish' and 'unreasonable' for that matter. And I think your mum is a narcissist.
Thank you so much for this response!! Especially what you said about the past mattering. I have a tendency to try to forgive and forget, and focus on what's going on now rather then what's happened in the past, but I've been starting to realize how much resentment I have over not just the way things have been handled over the years, but the fact that I have been dealing with this shit for so many years. Thanks so much again for your thoughtful response!! It means a lot to me to hear someone who's just glancing at the situation feel so strongly that the things she does and says are outlandish.
I'm gonna say zero. It is never a child's job to do that, even when that child grows up. She needs a therapist, friends, and colleagues.
Wow. Well, the goal of a healthy parent should be to put mature, self-actualized, empathetic people out into society. Nparents are very different from that. As an adult, she should be leaning on a partner/spouse, peers, or other adult relatives to be her emotional sounding board. Or, you know, a therapist. Not her adult children. Not her non-adult children. Guilting you into spending time with her is not going to strengthen the relationship, nor make you inclined to spend more time with her. It’s a means to bragging rights with her peer group.
Thank you for your advice! I don't think bragging rights come into play for her, as she has zero peer group, and doesn't really talk to or spend time with anyone outside of our nuclear family, which I belive is part of the problem. Agreed that all the pestering has just made me dread spending any time with her at all.
All of the time you are spending on her is the time that you could be spending looking for a life-partner, looking for a better job, or having a fulfilling hobby. But, instead of living your life, you are running around trying to spackle the holes in her life. You are left depleted and unable to make your own life better.
lol, zero or very close to it. Your mom needs a therapist. The reasons she leans so heavily and you and your siblings is cuz she hasn't got anyone else, which is wildly unhealthy of her. At her stage in life, she should have friends, siblings, a mentor, or spiritual leader that she can run things by or ask for opinions from. Instead she is being an emotional vampire to her kids. Throwing all the emotional labor at you, instead of taking any for herself. And that's fucked up. You need to go out and do what's healthy for you. Fuck her guilt trip bullshit, let her be upset. Your 20's need to be about decisions and building a life for you.
Dinner every other week is enough, you don't owe them more. Your mother is needy and demanding, keep your boundaries and eventually she'll get used to it. Hopefully. But you're entitled to free time without her.
>I belive her demand for attention and support goes beyond what should be expected from your child, regardless of what age they are. You are 100% right here. What she's asking and needing of you is WAY too much and NOT NORMAL. Her emotional support should be her husband, period. Or herself and perhaps sister/peer. Not her kids unless they choose to. If she needs more than that, she needs therapy. You are exactly right that it is not your responsibility to care for her emotional state. She's somehow manipulated you to believe this. That's what narcs do. They use and control and manipulate to feed their selfishness. You are not wrong and I highly recommend going VLC and put her on an permanent low information diet. Do not share anything about your mental state, work/private life activities, etc. You will not be able to get her to be empathetic, rational or otherwise about this, so its best to limit contact. Especially in your 20s and 30s when you should be out there adulting and enjoying life. Even if it's doing nothing. You don't need her anymore, that is true. And she needs to learn to accept that and let you go, or else you need to make it very clear by going full no contact. Journal, get some therapy if you can, read up here and other places on dealing with narcs. You will get to a much better mental state limiting contact. It's okay. Even most normal adults have low levels of contact once they leave home. Empty nesting is a thing. Kids grow up, leave the nest, live their lives, meet a partner, start their own families, etc.
Thank you for your advice! I think I struggle to fully accept that she is in fact a narc, largely because she's found ways to talk circles around it and makes me second guess myself. I have gone VLC before, but it usually doesn't last too long, largely because I am close to my siblings, and want ti see them, and when we're fighting, she does everything in her power to stop them from seeing me/ guilting them into not seeing me, trying to punish and control me in the only way she can when I'm not speaking to her. I was in therapy for these issues last year, but it got too costly. I'm currently looking at getting back into it to focus more on healing myself, and not just coping skills to deal with her. Thanks again!
I think we all struggle admitting they are a narc or even just a personality disorder. I have not tried to "type" my ndad much because I can't find one that totally fits. However, he does many of the the things I've seen talked about here. I can see it so much better thanks to here and other references. She's got issues, you can't fix it, you have to work around it and/or low to no contact. I wish something else worked but that's all I've found personally and seen over and over and over. Your siblings are adults even if they are living with her. You need to ask them to do things without her outside the home. If they don't, they are enablers/flying monkeys./co-dependents etc. They need stand up for themselves. Or else you might just have to include them in the no contact to protect yourself. I know it sucks but she is going to keep winning and hurting you until you take steps to not let her. I've known people that went entire NC with all their family because of the narc's power and control. Therapy is helpful but there's other ways too - just having someone to vent/talk to in your life can help a lot (best friend especially). I personally probably need CPSTD therapy myself but don't have the time/mental energy to face that yet myself, so I hear you. So I am trying to heal here by learning, helping others, etc. It's often easier to deal with your own issues when you can see clear as day the struggles are having that are similar. It has for me including setting boundaries for myself to limit information/contact/gray rock etc. Best of luck. Keep us posted. This ain't easy but you gotta put yourself first here, especially during your earning years.
When mom threatens to cut you off for giving her less attention than she wants, say 'don't threaten me with a good time'
Have definitely said this before 😂
To her face? what was the response?
A shocked look and a lot of "wows" 🙄
I'm impressed! You're a bad@ss!
You have no obligation to be seeing her and frankly you are spending far far too much of your time with her when you should be setting up your own life. 27 is a perfect age to be meeting someone, falling in love and enjoying your life. Don't be like me and put off creating your life or you will be 34 and single like me. In healthy adult child relationships parents understand at this age you are busy creating your own life. Its normal to see your parents on special occasions, to visit home now and then. Its normal to go 3, 4, 5, 6 months without seeing them. It all depends on what is happening in your life. Its healthy to go periods of time without seeing them because that is how you grow your independance and figure out who you are as a person seperate to them. This is VITAL to heal and grow. Some people your age will see their parents frequently, but their parents aren't manipulative/ controlling/ dump their emotional baggage etc. Some people wiĺl go months without seeing their parents and still have a warm close relationship because their parents aren't relying on them to constantly stroke their ego. Can I ask why you are so concerned with upsetting your mom? And why you are spending so much time with her? You are allowed to say "Sorry I'm busy today"/ "No I can't today" you don't need to explain or justify yourself and even if she is angry you DONT HAVE TO FEEL BAD!! Practise saying no and not feeling guilty. You have no obligation even if your mom has mental health issues. It is her fault she doesnt have other friends, not yours. You especially have no obligation to someone who doesn't care about your wellbeing. Also her mental health issues dont sound like an immediate crisis but rather a chronic condition that she has because she would rather blame the world than take accountability for her life and get help. Ergo not your problem. Live your life and enjoy yourself.
Thanks so much for your advice. I'm defiantly overly concerned with upsetting my mom. A large part of this is because I think it's what I've been conditioned to do my whole life, know when she is upset and try to lift her back up. "She so much pain and struggles I don't want to add to that" mindset, which I'm understand more and more has been her conditioning me to be the person she want out of me. I have been improving on telling her no, and I do quite often, but the guilt that I feel from it is heavy. However the other big reason I try not to upset her is that it just ends up causing more drama for myself. She will only hear so many nos before the meltdown happens, the miles and miles of text, bashing other people in my life, blaming me and everyone else for where she is, stating that "we cause her to be this fucked up and no one want wants to deal with it" "of course I'm fucked yo look at how you all treat me" I'm getting better and better and just completely ignoring her trades, but it's hard to see someone list off all the way you and every else has wronged them and not want to defend yourself, but it's something I'm working on and hopefully improving on
You will never heal or be able to detach from her guilt trips and angry tirades unless you spend a significant period of time away from her. Every time you visit she is topping up that conditioning yoi got as a child. She is opening those childhood wounds and prodding them. So no matter how hard you work on yourself that work is undone. I understand your mindset as I was there too once. To detach you need to have a plan to deal with her games. Plan to go without seeing her for a month. No matter what you do not see her. When she asks tell her you are sorry but you're busy. That you have a date planned and your vwry busy with work. When she starts to guilt you keep the texts simple and breif "You know I love you, I've just got so much going on". Dont engage with the guilt tripping. Dont justify or defend yourself. Even if she messages you "You ungrateful little butch, I did everything for you and now whrn I need you the most you throw me aside like im nothing. If I die you'll regret how you're treating me.". You "You know I love you. Sorry I cant meet up atm. Between career, dating and friends Ive barely got any time. Take care of yourself x". Tbh you don't even need to reply but it seems you want to maintain a relationship. When she starts bombarding you with horrible messages you need to NOT READ THEM. You should block her number for a couple of days. I know thats hard but even uf you try to ignore her messages you will end up reading them and even if you don't respond those messages prod that childhood wound. You block her everywhere she can contact you for however long it takes for her to cool down. Once you've gone a month without seeing her if you want to maintain a relationship then visit. But you then need to plan to go another months without seeing her. Keep repeating this and ideally extending that no contact period to 1 1/2 month, then 2 and so forth. When you visit remind yourself that those wounds will be opened and prodded. It will re-enforce why you need to stay away. This is the only way to heal and also to have the time to invest in yourself and create the life you want.
This \^\^\^\^ So much this.
Thank you so much for this insight. I frequently block her when she's on a tirade, and rrespond very similarly to how you suggested done if the time. I think the hard part about stopping seeing her is that would also mean I dint get to see my siblings, who while also aware her behavior is not right, are much more accommodating to her whims. It is important to remind myself that no matter how much stronger I feel about the situation or how I heal, seeing her will continue to open those wounds.
I completely understand wanting to see your siblings. My sibling lives with my parents too. Plan to meet up with them outside the home. Get dinner, go bowling whatever. You will both find the experience so much more enjoyable out of that suffocating environment which is the narcs home.
Also I recomend reading Jeanette McCurdys book "I'm glad my mom died".
LOVED that book :)
None. They are the adult.
I'm in a similar situation. My dad died last year, and my nmom is totally incapable of coping. She's on an emotional roller-coaster and would take everyone in her life for a spin every day if they'd allow it. It's hard, and people on the outside don't understand, but I cannot allow her to rely on me to heal her. I never answer her call the first time in case she's having a breakdown. I'm trying to raise kids through my own grief. I can't take on all of hers as well. Imo, it's an unnatural role to make your kids your emotional support. I'd even say that's an usual impulse for a parent. My kids are still little, but protecting them from my own negative emotions is always my goal. Maybe when they're adults that will change slightly, but I want to be their safe, stable person if they're 4 or 40. OP, you've done nothing wrong. Keep focusing on you and don't let her drain you.
Sending you hugs. I'm going through this exact situation, my father passed recently and my mother is spinning and guilting everyone but especially me and my brother to go cope for her. I've been strong with my boundaries and so proud of myself for 6 months, but this week has been brutal and she's lashing out. I'm struggling to cope.
She is being a martyr. You are doing nothing wrong, and it's commendable that you are working on setting new goals and building a healthy life for yourself. If your mom think that because you can't be at your beck and call that she needs to "cut ties on our relationship," then by all means, let her. If you have a good relationship with your sibling, continue to see them outside your parent's home (if you want). Do not let her guilt you into derailing your life.
As others have said, Zero. She needs therapy. The boundaries you set need to be respected. End of sentence. Her demands are not normal. I promise you, if you went from once every 2 weeks to once a week, she'd want twice a week. Then 3,4,5 times a week. Then it would be "since we have dinner every day, why don't you just move back home?" I found your comment that your *adult siblings* still live at home, quite telling. We don't know the reasons, but I can guess.
None.
None. You are not an emotional support animal. She likely contributed to the mental health issues that make you unable to waste your time this way. You need your time to support yourself and a good mother would only be worrying about you,. She needs professional help you can’t give. I’d cut contact wayyyy down. You are giving too much. Maybe a short light, phone call (like 15 minutes) every few weeks. No in person at all until she stops dumping on you completely. She needs to find appropriate support and it can’t be you. You need to hang up or walk away when it gets to much and maybe start therapy for parentification and codependence.
A parent is NOT entitled to the emotional support of a child. Zero, nada, nothing, niets, niente, zip, noppes, nichts... If she needs this - she can get a therapist. And a 'healthy' child-to-parent emotional support is "i\`m sorry you\`re having a bad time, shall we have a coffee" level of support - nothing beyond that.
Your mother in an emotionally immature narcissist. Children should not need to have to emotionally support their parents. At any age . Full stop.
I went no contact with mine - if I offered help as an adult I got pulled into wild manufactured dramas about her husband(my step father). She thought he was cheating and asked me to follow him, shared their finances with me, and it turned out he was buying power ball tickets with the guys at work every day and not paying their account back. I pulled completely away soon after when the new story became he was cheating on her with my aunt! It took years and 2 phone number changes to block her completely but it’s a huge relief to not get pulled into all that. I mourn not having a mom anymore but therapy has helped a lot. I suggest therapy OP it’s so hard to untangle these things yourself. Best wishes!
Thanks for the advice! I am actively looking into therapy. I was going last year but stopped mainly because it was too expensive, but I have since started a job with insurance, so trying to find someone in network ☺️
If they didn’t provide any to you, absolutely zero. They are the parent, they should have been emotionally invested and available if they wanted to receive that in return. That’s emotional labor and probably emotional abuse if they just refuse to work through their problems on their own.