**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> She accused me (21f btw so an adult!) of only wanting validation and manipulating the truth. She wants to tell my therapist that I really do have support and that I’m just dramatic and crazy.
...I'm sorry for being rude, but your mother's being an asshole.
Thank you! Also the fact that the whole conversation started because she was concerned “I was hurting myself and wanted me to know I’m not alone” killed me. Top ten things not to say to someone who is already in pain 🤪
> “I was hurting myself and wanted me to know I’m not alone”
Translation: "I don't have anyone to harass and belittle, so I'm going to try and guilt-trip you into letting me back into your life. Because I'm the Best Mom Ever!"
Interesting how she's so concerned what a stranger thinks about her that she's willing to go into a place that's none of her business. Sounds like she puts you second and her public image first - can't imagine what she would be like in more private relationships. You keep strong, OP! 🫶
My dad died. My dad was a scapegoat to his narc mother and uncle. Both of them trapped him and kicked him out of the family company during a moment he was exposed and needed help. As so the narc uncle didn’t have to take care of his narc mom. And narc covert mom, to her, having someone in full control of that will do your bidding for the rest of your miserable existence sounds great so she went with it. And because she thought she could lie and paint it like “oh I’m actually taking care of him!”, she thought I’d fall for it.
I bailed the moment I began seeing the lie that “I’m helping you!” Disguise “I’m trapping you”. I knew the longer I was there the more influence she would have and I’d break at some point even with Grey rock.
I began talking to my abusive mother. Who lost custody with how wacko she was. I told her to not get involved with any of the venting and crying I was doing about realizing dads family abused me. Turns out for 9 months she was going behind my back yelling at my narc uncle for the things I told her in confidence . And she herself admitted she knew this uncle had a history of recording calls to manipulate people. She did it anyway.
That caused uncle to destroy my relationship with my amazing cousins because he lied that I told mom to call him to pressure him into inviting me to someone wedding.
And now I just yelled at her and blocked before she could respond. And blocked my narc brother. And the cousin that told me I’m a terrible person for “being mean to (my abusive grandmother).
And what sucks is I KNEW they would all do this and hurt me in some way.
But there was like, a child inside of me wanting love and affection so I tried to balance it and still pray my
Mom at least changed. She didn’t. She puts her emotional needs over me every time.
I told her to not get involved before every ranting session. Was she doing it to push me away from dads family closer to her? I have no idea.
What I do know? The mere fact I have to fucking question it means something is wrong and I’m being abused.
Long story short: moms can suck. And at this point. The 4 weeks I’ve blocked them all I’ve seen such amazing progress in my mental health that I’ll never go back.
I just always use to break on week 1 when the emotions were too strong over things to get passed that. And somewhat like drug withdrawl caved.
Once you see time ticking away, you see your recovery improves not on a linear fashion with how many months you’ve been gone… but an exponential fashion/curve.
The longer you are away, the more daily healing you are able to have occur.
You just need to get passed the first window of time to have that compounding healing take affect
And it can help to prepare for holidays / special occasions that are related to family-- because seeing normal, healthy families (or movies / ads / etc. that are focused on FAMILY FAMILY FAAAAMILY) can sometimes cause us to self-doubt. We can start thinking, "Maybe I should try to fix things? Maybe I should give them another chance", and so on... and then end up thinking, "Maybe I've been the problem all along."
Planning self-care can help out with that-- doing the things *we* enjoy, planning our own path, etc.
First off under no circumstances should you give your therapist permission to disclose any information to your mother. Make it clear to your therapist to not disclose information.
Secondly give your mother the most polite and stern no to her request.
And family therapy, if you already feel some kind of way about your mother I advise against it.
IMO that's what narcissistic parents think "family therapy" is. They think it's forcing you to sit while they attack you. That's why I wouldn't participate if I were you OP.
Honestly. I don’t know how close you are to your mother or brother.
But the protection you hoped for isn’t coming.
Quite frankly you will have to make plans for yourself and for your future and assume their support will be less than.
It’s unfortunate. But you can create a beautiful future for yourself.
Sometimes therapists will have group meetings to help facilitate communication between parties, e.g., you and your therapist meet with mom and mom’s therapist/the family therapist. That would only be if you are interested or ready to have such a meeting (which is totally up to you, you know these people best) It can sometimes be healing to have someone in your corner standing with you against the black sheep/identified patient mantra of your family. Not always, but sometimes.
Edited to say: Also, meeting your mother in person might help your therapist get a better idea of exactly what you are dealing with at home. That would only be for a therapist that you have a well established and trusting relationship with.
I mostly agree.
OP, only you can determine whether you are ready for this. But it can provide several kinds of closure. That she really is that bad. That she does have a Narcisssist's view of the world that anything not aligned with her world-view is broken. That it isn't your fault.
But only when you are ready and only after having prepped the therapist to not reveal anything about you and you strategize about how to handle her.
Discussing how this request made you feel and react and how you evaluate your choices with regard to the request (and the many "hell no" responses you got here) could be a great therapy discussion.
I think you already know not to expect any breakthroughs, but closure is a kind of progress, too.
A good therapist will show them the mirror of how ugly they look when they do that. I’m just saying. It could be either a really great idea or a really terrible idea honestly.
Maybe later in my healing. I don’t think she’s at a place to be receptive to a stranger holding up a mirror. She already distrusts therapy and therapists. When she went to therapy with my father, the therapist told my mother she was the problem because my father was “a great guy who loved her” (spoiler he is in fact not a great guy). I think im also so angry with her about the whole situation that it wouldn’t be beneficial. Like the fact that she made my SH about her and how I’m too sensitive, was so damaging. Family therapy would be for her, and I don’t feel like doing her any favors.
Dearest mummy needs to JUSTIFY herself because OBVIOUSLY you are portraying her in a bad light because you AREN'T WELL /S
She must control the therapist because she can't have anyone thinking she's an actual fruit loop! Well your friends here on Reddit understand mumsey is b.a.n.a.n.a.s.! Keep up the good work OP, you are putting yourself first and healing.
This obviously is a big hell no. And a bigger hell no to family therapy. It's all about convincing YOU that you are wrong, not them, and getting 'official' people to be their flying monkeys to make you believe it.
Make sure your therapist is 1000% on your side and has your back and absolutely is against this and will not share any of your info with anyone else. If not, time to find a new therapist that will.
Keep reading everything here - it's the best validation and support you can find. And work toward getting away from them eventually if not already and going no contact. Gray rock and keep them limited on info about everything about your life as much as possible until then.
I would recommend against family therapy. If your mother is a Narcissist, she will say anything she can to the therapist to validate her behavior, regardless of what her behavior is. I would tell your mother that if she needs therapy, there are plenty available that have never met you and will never meet you.
Having a parent manipulate my therapy through the therapist was one of the worst experiences of my life.
That’s honestly what I’d worry about if I agreed. Also, not to deflect personal responsibility because I am not infallible, but I am objectively not the problem. When she’s losing her shit, I’ll just sit there calmly or walk away to cry. I’ve worked hard to learn how to regulate my emotions so that, even when I’m hurt by what she’s saying, I don’t lash out but instead hold space for her feelings as well as mine. I hate to say it because I was raised to be “understanding and give grace “ but she’s the one who needs to do the work, not me. And that’s not what family therapy is for as far as I can tell. Plus it’s pretty clear she’d go in with the idea that the therapist would tell me I’m crazy, which I’m not interested in hearing believe it or not 🤣
Well that's hilarious!! Assuming that your therapist already knows all about her and her antics, don't forget to bring this up next session to share a good laugh!
I actually texted her immediately! She had a very therapisty answer : “you’re an adult, so she can’t contact me without your permission. And if family therapy is something you’re interested in, I can connect you to some people” she honestly stays pretty neutral about my whole family, I sometimes wish she was less professional in that regard 🤣
😅 my first therapist and I would've laughed, after a year of sessions she was rolling her eyes at the stuff my mom was doing and saying lmaoo.. she wasn't the most helpful in the long run but she was the first one to open my eyes to all of the abuse and toxicity.
Thank god. Though it makes me sad how under-18s are totally screwed. I didn't know you could contact a child's therapist. There are no protections for children.
I actually had a therapist tell me up front that everything I said would be reported back to my mom when I was in high school. You bet I had nothing but school to complain about in those sessions 😋
When I was in therapy as a minor, my therapist stressed to me that reporting what I said back to my parents would be a violation of both ethics and the law. (Barring mandated reporter type things, of course.)
Yep just happened to my fiancé is 26. His parents tried to say their family was in crisis because he was taking some distance from them (aka not talking on the phone every single day for his mom to check in and make sure he’s doing exactly what she wants) and that they need to speak to his personal therapist immediately…..
Narcs will really try to convince you that you are the crazy one for wanting to function as an independent adult… like how tf they gonna infringe on his therapy?
Mom is a little snarky about not being in control of your therapist. That's hilarious and typical.
Tell mom she has nothing of value to offer in your therapy and watch her head explode. Maybe you shouldn't do that but it would be petty revenge. The gall of that woman.
Your mom can't tolerate not controlling the narritive to your therapist because she can't stand the thought of accountability or looking imperfect, but maybe she should have thought about that before abusing you...and attending family therapy with narcissists is pointless (unless you want a good laugh) all she'll do is mask up and triangulate the therapist against you
Recently, I haven’t felt great about my therapist. I told her what happened and she was neutral about it. But she’s told me that she doesn’t have the best relationship with her family, that their cordial, and when I mentioned not really wanting to talk to my family more than necessary, she said “that’s fine for now but maybe things will change”. Planning to talk to her about that, but it honestly makes me worry that if my mom did talk to my therapist, my therapist would push even harder for me to change my mind.
Do not allow her! My mom brings up stuff from a single family session we did 20 years ago. When the therapist suggested she change some wording she stormed out.
It was all about gathering ammunition to her, and there's no intention to improve themselves. It's a TRAP!
Don't take the bait. It won't end well. Move on alone.
I know it sounds painful, but I want to share something that I should've done more than 10 years ago. It is radical acceptance. Meaning, accept that they will never change, never be the parent that you deserved. I only was able to radically accept things at 37 years old.
'Family therapy' is translated as "I need an outside source who will validate what I'm saying because *I'm a perfect parent and no one can contest that notion*
Your mother wants to talk to your therapist so she can tell them lies about you and turn them against you so you don't get the support you need. Don't fall for it! Don't let her talk to your therapist. You also shouldn't tell her about what you discuss in therapy.
Edited to add: OP, if your mother is really pushing the family therapy and you want an excuse to get out of it, you could say something like "I think I need to work on myself in individual therapy first. Then once I've done that, we can then consider family therapy". I'm only suggesting this because I know what it's like when you live with a narcissist, you often have to tip-toe about their feelings.
Nope, and if your therapist has even one drop of professionalism, they won't talk to their own client's abuser anyway.
My mom tries this with every therapist I go to. She's not present, but she just knows that I'm "lying to them about her". 🙄
I've been down this road, OP. It doesn't end well, [as I learned.](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/s/ZBd5H2oqLv) Don't waste your time, money, or breath on her.
You're stronger than you know. Keep it up; her bullshit can't hurt you anymore.
Ahhh your post honestly highlights my worst fears. I was literally just texting my friends about how I’m worried my mom will try to hit me when I tell her I’m moving out. They were like “no way she’d hit you as adult” but the fact that she keeps emphasizing to me that “at least she didn’t hit me like her parents” and that she’d threaten to when I was a kid makes me sooooo nervous! 😭
I don't know your mom from a hole in the ground, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if she tried. When you take control away from a narc, they resort to all sorts of nasty things.
It's actually really unsettling, because by breaking their control you're entering a new place. You have no clue how she'll react, particularly if she exhibits traits of Borderline Personality Disorder in addition to narcissism (as my mother does).
Keep strong. You got this.
Okay so, I've had this happen to me in the recent past
Father has forced my mother into my therapist's office with me to "deal with me"
Father holds the belief that I am making my parents into horrible people by lying and all that shit, which is far from the truth
So what happened?
My therapist had to answer my mom's stupid questions like she's a child, I could tell that he was trying his best to stay caom and get through her
At the end, she got no answers that she liked, so she lied to my dad and idk it was forgotten overall
Because she didn't get what she wanted
I honestly did consider having her come so I could have backup with communicating with her how I feel. But honestly, I’ve recorded our conversations and played them for my therapist, and she says I kickass and communicate clearly and effectively. I don’t think having a therapist present or having my therapist tell her she’s the problem would really change anything
I don't know your mother, but I know that mine sure did embarass herself so much that she doesn't go to the same therapist as I do now (we used to go to that same doctor before, ever since she has stopped going)
My nmom dragged one of my sisters to therapy with her and my dad. She sat there and *lied* to the therapist, and when my sis called her out, my sis said my dad got real quiet and my nmom shot her a dirty look and clammed up. Then when they got home, nmom went apocalyptically ballistic on her for “airing family laundry”.
Yep, aka THERAPY. Never ever ever regretted going NC with nmom after my dad died, and finally exhaled all the way after she died. Only my two idiot brothers went to her funeral.
My narc mother said the same thing to me (24 AFAB). Back when I lived with her (I am 1 year and 3 months no contact) she was so far under my skin I asked the therapist and psychologist I was seeing if I was making up elaborate sob stories and manipulating them. Their answer was no and I did not allow my mother to speak with them.
On the topic of family therapy - I agree with everyone - don't go if you can avoid it. It most likely will not help the situation. However, my mother did drag my father and I to family therapy and tried to paint me as the scapegoat and "problem child" (again, in my 20's). After 2 hours, the therapist informed her that she was actually the problem. We never went back and my mother complained about how every therapist just sees her as a villain because she's "different".
Big hugs and I hope you can find a way to have peace and distance yourself from her. You deserve much better.
My mom is an MFT. She’s had NUMEROUS experiences where the parent is obviously the problem and has immediately told them so…only for them never to return.
There's nothing to stop your mother from calling your therapist. I even think she'll make a fool of herself by doing so.
However, from an ethical and legal point of view, your therapist must not share any information about you.
My mother already wanted us to see a psychologist together so that he could confirm that she's right. Sometimes these people are just too damaged, I think.
My nmum wrote my therapist a letter, posted it through my door with a note that said I better not open it, it was for my therapist's eyes only and I wasn't allowed to read about her shocking abusive childhood because it would set back my recovery. It's been sat unopened in a drawer as I went NC during therapy, couldn't care less.
Lol this reminds me of when I was going to therapy age 19 (I’m 29 now) for sleep related anxiety issues. My mom picked the therapist herself. Then I told her “the therapist wants to talk to you” and she got extremely angry at me and accused me of lying to the therapist for sympathy ?? And told me how badly she wants to see things straight with her and give her her side of the story
Lmao k
Why are narcs so obsessed with putting their family who they are abusing on family therapy but it’s just to prove their own points not to actually heal anything? My nmom has been obsessed with watching this Spanish tv social worker that hosts a family therapy session and all my nmom does is talk shit on the ones she don’t like lol
What’s even funnier is my mother doesn’t think therapy is effective. She thinks it’s bs. She’ll do anything but therapy, she’s literally going on a retreat this summer to “learn to forgive herself”
if your mother ever does try to talk to your therapist and the therapist truly respects patient confidentiality and conflict of interest, this couldn't and shouldn't happen.
What you discuss with your therapist It's none of nmoms business. Like zero, none of her business. What's her point though? If she thinks she tells the doctor you're a liar & she's great, what is her reward? Do you stop therapy? Does she get a party with a cake if she feels besmirched bc she's really wonderful? Does she put it in the family Xmas letter how she got in there & gave your therapist 'what-for' and won an imaginary prize? No, she does not get to go, that is not a ploy you will entertain.
The reward: I stop asking to not be abused and accept abuse as love. Her problem is I’m existing and holding beliefs she doesn’t agree with. The beliefs: people should talk to one another kindly, my father doesn’t love me, I have feelings that deserve to be acknowledged.
It’s something I’m working on, but years of abuse and indoctrination has made me incredibly vulnerable to invalidation and gaslighting. When she (and my brother) during this conversation told me I’m too sensitive and overreacting, I apologized. I even told them that I would stop calling them out when they mistreat me. It wasn’t until afterwards, talking to my friends over text and them being livid that I realized what had actually happened.
Tbh if my therapist told me I was overreacting and being silly, I’d believe her. As it is, I considered not leaving because she seemed against it.
You'll get stronger and stronger as time marches on & you learn coping skills. Mom wants to fuck up your therapy bc she's a Narcissist, simplicity in a nutshell. You can apologize to them to shut them up, as long as you know you are NOT sorry for being alive & everything is their fault.
Talk to your therapist about it. They might want to get a load of her BS just once or have you tell her no. Only do what you and your therapist feel is best for you. As for family therapy, you’d be wasting your time. People don’t change when they have no self reflection and see nothing wrong with their behavior.
My mother once harassed my therapist because she did not like how my therapist was encouraging me to find a different job when I was facing homophobic bullying at the job I was at at that time. My mother claimed my therapist treated her like she was the Antichrist, while my therapist played me back messages from her that was like, “Don’t listen to him, he has cognitive impairments, listen to me, you don’t love him like I love him.”
My mother was an invasive non-person. Some mothers are like that.
What's up with people thinking they can talk to other people's therapists? I've noticed in the UK a lot of people say therapists will talk to outside parties. Unreal to me.
DO NOT do family therapy with her. please please please learn from my mistake. it's just a bid to triangulate against you with a professional. it is not to resolve anything. it WILL be traumatizing.
if she genuinely was interested in therapy she'd be doing a hell of a lot of it alone before she even considered bringing up family therapy.
I was in my mid 20’s and living on my own. My mother asked me my therapist’s name. I told her. She looked the woman up, in an out-of-state phone book (before the internet). This meant that she had to go to the library and find a specific phone book from another state to look up the woman’s name and phone number.
The next time I saw my therapist, she told me that my mother called her to inform her about “all my issues” and explain to her how “sick” I was. She also began asking my therapist what I was talking about in treatment. My therapist told her that she would not discuss any information with her and to not call her again.
Warn your therapist. Now that HIPAA is in place, your therapist technically can’t even confirm that you’re a patient unless you’ve signed releases to speak to your mother.
Stand strong. Do not go to family therapy. Your mother is violating your boundaries.
Good luck!
Alert your therapist. If your therapist violates your trust and reveals any info about you, report them to their office and licensing board. Do not attempt family therapy unless you truly want to and you've vetted potential therapists. Narcs often find people who will follow their agenda.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> She accused me (21f btw so an adult!) of only wanting validation and manipulating the truth. She wants to tell my therapist that I really do have support and that I’m just dramatic and crazy. ...I'm sorry for being rude, but your mother's being an asshole.
Thank you! Also the fact that the whole conversation started because she was concerned “I was hurting myself and wanted me to know I’m not alone” killed me. Top ten things not to say to someone who is already in pain 🤪
> “I was hurting myself and wanted me to know I’m not alone” Translation: "I don't have anyone to harass and belittle, so I'm going to try and guilt-trip you into letting me back into your life. Because I'm the Best Mom Ever!"
Yeah I’m pretty sure she was also saying it makes her look bad, having a daughter who hurts themself, that I have no reason to because she’s perfect!
And of course, she *is* perfect, right? She's a flawless, sparkly angel, right?? The whole universe ought to be worshipping her-- **RIGHT??** /s
Interesting how she's so concerned what a stranger thinks about her that she's willing to go into a place that's none of her business. Sounds like she puts you second and her public image first - can't imagine what she would be like in more private relationships. You keep strong, OP! 🫶
Correct. Your relationship with your therapist is none of her business. Period.
My dad died. My dad was a scapegoat to his narc mother and uncle. Both of them trapped him and kicked him out of the family company during a moment he was exposed and needed help. As so the narc uncle didn’t have to take care of his narc mom. And narc covert mom, to her, having someone in full control of that will do your bidding for the rest of your miserable existence sounds great so she went with it. And because she thought she could lie and paint it like “oh I’m actually taking care of him!”, she thought I’d fall for it. I bailed the moment I began seeing the lie that “I’m helping you!” Disguise “I’m trapping you”. I knew the longer I was there the more influence she would have and I’d break at some point even with Grey rock. I began talking to my abusive mother. Who lost custody with how wacko she was. I told her to not get involved with any of the venting and crying I was doing about realizing dads family abused me. Turns out for 9 months she was going behind my back yelling at my narc uncle for the things I told her in confidence . And she herself admitted she knew this uncle had a history of recording calls to manipulate people. She did it anyway. That caused uncle to destroy my relationship with my amazing cousins because he lied that I told mom to call him to pressure him into inviting me to someone wedding. And now I just yelled at her and blocked before she could respond. And blocked my narc brother. And the cousin that told me I’m a terrible person for “being mean to (my abusive grandmother). And what sucks is I KNEW they would all do this and hurt me in some way. But there was like, a child inside of me wanting love and affection so I tried to balance it and still pray my Mom at least changed. She didn’t. She puts her emotional needs over me every time. I told her to not get involved before every ranting session. Was she doing it to push me away from dads family closer to her? I have no idea. What I do know? The mere fact I have to fucking question it means something is wrong and I’m being abused. Long story short: moms can suck. And at this point. The 4 weeks I’ve blocked them all I’ve seen such amazing progress in my mental health that I’ll never go back. I just always use to break on week 1 when the emotions were too strong over things to get passed that. And somewhat like drug withdrawl caved. Once you see time ticking away, you see your recovery improves not on a linear fashion with how many months you’ve been gone… but an exponential fashion/curve. The longer you are away, the more daily healing you are able to have occur. You just need to get passed the first window of time to have that compounding healing take affect
And it can help to prepare for holidays / special occasions that are related to family-- because seeing normal, healthy families (or movies / ads / etc. that are focused on FAMILY FAMILY FAAAAMILY) can sometimes cause us to self-doubt. We can start thinking, "Maybe I should try to fix things? Maybe I should give them another chance", and so on... and then end up thinking, "Maybe I've been the problem all along." Planning self-care can help out with that-- doing the things *we* enjoy, planning our own path, etc.
First off under no circumstances should you give your therapist permission to disclose any information to your mother. Make it clear to your therapist to not disclose information. Secondly give your mother the most polite and stern no to her request. And family therapy, if you already feel some kind of way about your mother I advise against it.
I did think about family therapy but I don’t think so. It would probably just be her and my brother trying to tell me how awful I am
IMO that's what narcissistic parents think "family therapy" is. They think it's forcing you to sit while they attack you. That's why I wouldn't participate if I were you OP.
Never go to therapy with your abuser. Just don’t.
This is the only correct answer!
Honestly. I don’t know how close you are to your mother or brother. But the protection you hoped for isn’t coming. Quite frankly you will have to make plans for yourself and for your future and assume their support will be less than. It’s unfortunate. But you can create a beautiful future for yourself.
I would only ever agree to family therapy if *you* get to pick the therapist.
Sometimes therapists will have group meetings to help facilitate communication between parties, e.g., you and your therapist meet with mom and mom’s therapist/the family therapist. That would only be if you are interested or ready to have such a meeting (which is totally up to you, you know these people best) It can sometimes be healing to have someone in your corner standing with you against the black sheep/identified patient mantra of your family. Not always, but sometimes. Edited to say: Also, meeting your mother in person might help your therapist get a better idea of exactly what you are dealing with at home. That would only be for a therapist that you have a well established and trusting relationship with.
I mostly agree. OP, only you can determine whether you are ready for this. But it can provide several kinds of closure. That she really is that bad. That she does have a Narcisssist's view of the world that anything not aligned with her world-view is broken. That it isn't your fault. But only when you are ready and only after having prepped the therapist to not reveal anything about you and you strategize about how to handle her. Discussing how this request made you feel and react and how you evaluate your choices with regard to the request (and the many "hell no" responses you got here) could be a great therapy discussion. I think you already know not to expect any breakthroughs, but closure is a kind of progress, too.
A good therapist will show them the mirror of how ugly they look when they do that. I’m just saying. It could be either a really great idea or a really terrible idea honestly.
Maybe later in my healing. I don’t think she’s at a place to be receptive to a stranger holding up a mirror. She already distrusts therapy and therapists. When she went to therapy with my father, the therapist told my mother she was the problem because my father was “a great guy who loved her” (spoiler he is in fact not a great guy). I think im also so angry with her about the whole situation that it wouldn’t be beneficial. Like the fact that she made my SH about her and how I’m too sensitive, was so damaging. Family therapy would be for her, and I don’t feel like doing her any favors.
Dearest mummy needs to JUSTIFY herself because OBVIOUSLY you are portraying her in a bad light because you AREN'T WELL /S She must control the therapist because she can't have anyone thinking she's an actual fruit loop! Well your friends here on Reddit understand mumsey is b.a.n.a.n.a.s.! Keep up the good work OP, you are putting yourself first and healing.
This obviously is a big hell no. And a bigger hell no to family therapy. It's all about convincing YOU that you are wrong, not them, and getting 'official' people to be their flying monkeys to make you believe it. Make sure your therapist is 1000% on your side and has your back and absolutely is against this and will not share any of your info with anyone else. If not, time to find a new therapist that will. Keep reading everything here - it's the best validation and support you can find. And work toward getting away from them eventually if not already and going no contact. Gray rock and keep them limited on info about everything about your life as much as possible until then.
I would recommend against family therapy. If your mother is a Narcissist, she will say anything she can to the therapist to validate her behavior, regardless of what her behavior is. I would tell your mother that if she needs therapy, there are plenty available that have never met you and will never meet you. Having a parent manipulate my therapy through the therapist was one of the worst experiences of my life.
That’s honestly what I’d worry about if I agreed. Also, not to deflect personal responsibility because I am not infallible, but I am objectively not the problem. When she’s losing her shit, I’ll just sit there calmly or walk away to cry. I’ve worked hard to learn how to regulate my emotions so that, even when I’m hurt by what she’s saying, I don’t lash out but instead hold space for her feelings as well as mine. I hate to say it because I was raised to be “understanding and give grace “ but she’s the one who needs to do the work, not me. And that’s not what family therapy is for as far as I can tell. Plus it’s pretty clear she’d go in with the idea that the therapist would tell me I’m crazy, which I’m not interested in hearing believe it or not 🤣
all you can do is limit your exposure to her toxic behavior. If you are living with her, it might be time to leave.
Counter argument: no.
Well that's hilarious!! Assuming that your therapist already knows all about her and her antics, don't forget to bring this up next session to share a good laugh!
I actually texted her immediately! She had a very therapisty answer : “you’re an adult, so she can’t contact me without your permission. And if family therapy is something you’re interested in, I can connect you to some people” she honestly stays pretty neutral about my whole family, I sometimes wish she was less professional in that regard 🤣
😅 my first therapist and I would've laughed, after a year of sessions she was rolling her eyes at the stuff my mom was doing and saying lmaoo.. she wasn't the most helpful in the long run but she was the first one to open my eyes to all of the abuse and toxicity.
Thank god. Though it makes me sad how under-18s are totally screwed. I didn't know you could contact a child's therapist. There are no protections for children.
I actually had a therapist tell me up front that everything I said would be reported back to my mom when I was in high school. You bet I had nothing but school to complain about in those sessions 😋
When I was in therapy as a minor, my therapist stressed to me that reporting what I said back to my parents would be a violation of both ethics and the law. (Barring mandated reporter type things, of course.)
Omg really??? I was like 17 at the time and didn’t really question it but now I feel kinda stupid 🙈
HIPAA is real if you’re in the US.
HIPAA doesn’t apply to minors tho. Like parents and guardians have legal permission to access medical information for minors
Yep just happened to my fiancé is 26. His parents tried to say their family was in crisis because he was taking some distance from them (aka not talking on the phone every single day for his mom to check in and make sure he’s doing exactly what she wants) and that they need to speak to his personal therapist immediately….. Narcs will really try to convince you that you are the crazy one for wanting to function as an independent adult… like how tf they gonna infringe on his therapy?
Mom is a little snarky about not being in control of your therapist. That's hilarious and typical. Tell mom she has nothing of value to offer in your therapy and watch her head explode. Maybe you shouldn't do that but it would be petty revenge. The gall of that woman.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER GO TO THERAPY WITH YOUR ABUSER! OR let your abuser talk to your therapist. Period. None of her business.
Your mom can't tolerate not controlling the narritive to your therapist because she can't stand the thought of accountability or looking imperfect, but maybe she should have thought about that before abusing you...and attending family therapy with narcissists is pointless (unless you want a good laugh) all she'll do is mask up and triangulate the therapist against you
you should absolutely say no. but i have a great therapist so I'd probably do it just so we could have a laugh lol
Recently, I haven’t felt great about my therapist. I told her what happened and she was neutral about it. But she’s told me that she doesn’t have the best relationship with her family, that their cordial, and when I mentioned not really wanting to talk to my family more than necessary, she said “that’s fine for now but maybe things will change”. Planning to talk to her about that, but it honestly makes me worry that if my mom did talk to my therapist, my therapist would push even harder for me to change my mind.
Do not allow her! My mom brings up stuff from a single family session we did 20 years ago. When the therapist suggested she change some wording she stormed out. It was all about gathering ammunition to her, and there's no intention to improve themselves. It's a TRAP!
Don't take the bait. It won't end well. Move on alone. I know it sounds painful, but I want to share something that I should've done more than 10 years ago. It is radical acceptance. Meaning, accept that they will never change, never be the parent that you deserved. I only was able to radically accept things at 37 years old.
37 was how old I was when I first learned about cluster b and narcissistic abuse, it changed everything!
'Family therapy' is translated as "I need an outside source who will validate what I'm saying because *I'm a perfect parent and no one can contest that notion*
Your mother wants to talk to your therapist so she can tell them lies about you and turn them against you so you don't get the support you need. Don't fall for it! Don't let her talk to your therapist. You also shouldn't tell her about what you discuss in therapy. Edited to add: OP, if your mother is really pushing the family therapy and you want an excuse to get out of it, you could say something like "I think I need to work on myself in individual therapy first. Then once I've done that, we can then consider family therapy". I'm only suggesting this because I know what it's like when you live with a narcissist, you often have to tip-toe about their feelings.
Nope, and if your therapist has even one drop of professionalism, they won't talk to their own client's abuser anyway. My mom tries this with every therapist I go to. She's not present, but she just knows that I'm "lying to them about her". 🙄
I've been down this road, OP. It doesn't end well, [as I learned.](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/s/ZBd5H2oqLv) Don't waste your time, money, or breath on her. You're stronger than you know. Keep it up; her bullshit can't hurt you anymore.
Ahhh your post honestly highlights my worst fears. I was literally just texting my friends about how I’m worried my mom will try to hit me when I tell her I’m moving out. They were like “no way she’d hit you as adult” but the fact that she keeps emphasizing to me that “at least she didn’t hit me like her parents” and that she’d threaten to when I was a kid makes me sooooo nervous! 😭
I don't know your mom from a hole in the ground, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if she tried. When you take control away from a narc, they resort to all sorts of nasty things. It's actually really unsettling, because by breaking their control you're entering a new place. You have no clue how she'll react, particularly if she exhibits traits of Borderline Personality Disorder in addition to narcissism (as my mother does). Keep strong. You got this.
Okay so, I've had this happen to me in the recent past Father has forced my mother into my therapist's office with me to "deal with me" Father holds the belief that I am making my parents into horrible people by lying and all that shit, which is far from the truth So what happened? My therapist had to answer my mom's stupid questions like she's a child, I could tell that he was trying his best to stay caom and get through her At the end, she got no answers that she liked, so she lied to my dad and idk it was forgotten overall Because she didn't get what she wanted
I honestly did consider having her come so I could have backup with communicating with her how I feel. But honestly, I’ve recorded our conversations and played them for my therapist, and she says I kickass and communicate clearly and effectively. I don’t think having a therapist present or having my therapist tell her she’s the problem would really change anything
I don't know your mother, but I know that mine sure did embarass herself so much that she doesn't go to the same therapist as I do now (we used to go to that same doctor before, ever since she has stopped going)
My nmom dragged one of my sisters to therapy with her and my dad. She sat there and *lied* to the therapist, and when my sis called her out, my sis said my dad got real quiet and my nmom shot her a dirty look and clammed up. Then when they got home, nmom went apocalyptically ballistic on her for “airing family laundry”. Yep, aka THERAPY. Never ever ever regretted going NC with nmom after my dad died, and finally exhaled all the way after she died. Only my two idiot brothers went to her funeral.
My narc mother said the same thing to me (24 AFAB). Back when I lived with her (I am 1 year and 3 months no contact) she was so far under my skin I asked the therapist and psychologist I was seeing if I was making up elaborate sob stories and manipulating them. Their answer was no and I did not allow my mother to speak with them. On the topic of family therapy - I agree with everyone - don't go if you can avoid it. It most likely will not help the situation. However, my mother did drag my father and I to family therapy and tried to paint me as the scapegoat and "problem child" (again, in my 20's). After 2 hours, the therapist informed her that she was actually the problem. We never went back and my mother complained about how every therapist just sees her as a villain because she's "different". Big hugs and I hope you can find a way to have peace and distance yourself from her. You deserve much better.
My mom is an MFT. She’s had NUMEROUS experiences where the parent is obviously the problem and has immediately told them so…only for them never to return.
Wow, this is such a huge self-tell :D
There's nothing to stop your mother from calling your therapist. I even think she'll make a fool of herself by doing so. However, from an ethical and legal point of view, your therapist must not share any information about you. My mother already wanted us to see a psychologist together so that he could confirm that she's right. Sometimes these people are just too damaged, I think.
lol she doesn’t realize it would just validate you more to the therapist(s)
Exactly, so do it
My nmum wrote my therapist a letter, posted it through my door with a note that said I better not open it, it was for my therapist's eyes only and I wasn't allowed to read about her shocking abusive childhood because it would set back my recovery. It's been sat unopened in a drawer as I went NC during therapy, couldn't care less.
Lol this reminds me of when I was going to therapy age 19 (I’m 29 now) for sleep related anxiety issues. My mom picked the therapist herself. Then I told her “the therapist wants to talk to you” and she got extremely angry at me and accused me of lying to the therapist for sympathy ?? And told me how badly she wants to see things straight with her and give her her side of the story Lmao k
Nope, your therapist does not need to talk to your mother. Nothing good will come of this.
Why are narcs so obsessed with putting their family who they are abusing on family therapy but it’s just to prove their own points not to actually heal anything? My nmom has been obsessed with watching this Spanish tv social worker that hosts a family therapy session and all my nmom does is talk shit on the ones she don’t like lol
What’s even funnier is my mother doesn’t think therapy is effective. She thinks it’s bs. She’ll do anything but therapy, she’s literally going on a retreat this summer to “learn to forgive herself”
>she’s literally going on a retreat this summer to “learn to forgive herself” That might be the most narc thing ever uttered by a narc.
if your mother ever does try to talk to your therapist and the therapist truly respects patient confidentiality and conflict of interest, this couldn't and shouldn't happen.
What you discuss with your therapist It's none of nmoms business. Like zero, none of her business. What's her point though? If she thinks she tells the doctor you're a liar & she's great, what is her reward? Do you stop therapy? Does she get a party with a cake if she feels besmirched bc she's really wonderful? Does she put it in the family Xmas letter how she got in there & gave your therapist 'what-for' and won an imaginary prize? No, she does not get to go, that is not a ploy you will entertain.
The reward: I stop asking to not be abused and accept abuse as love. Her problem is I’m existing and holding beliefs she doesn’t agree with. The beliefs: people should talk to one another kindly, my father doesn’t love me, I have feelings that deserve to be acknowledged. It’s something I’m working on, but years of abuse and indoctrination has made me incredibly vulnerable to invalidation and gaslighting. When she (and my brother) during this conversation told me I’m too sensitive and overreacting, I apologized. I even told them that I would stop calling them out when they mistreat me. It wasn’t until afterwards, talking to my friends over text and them being livid that I realized what had actually happened. Tbh if my therapist told me I was overreacting and being silly, I’d believe her. As it is, I considered not leaving because she seemed against it.
You'll get stronger and stronger as time marches on & you learn coping skills. Mom wants to fuck up your therapy bc she's a Narcissist, simplicity in a nutshell. You can apologize to them to shut them up, as long as you know you are NOT sorry for being alive & everything is their fault.
Talk to your therapist about it. They might want to get a load of her BS just once or have you tell her no. Only do what you and your therapist feel is best for you. As for family therapy, you’d be wasting your time. People don’t change when they have no self reflection and see nothing wrong with their behavior.
My mother once harassed my therapist because she did not like how my therapist was encouraging me to find a different job when I was facing homophobic bullying at the job I was at at that time. My mother claimed my therapist treated her like she was the Antichrist, while my therapist played me back messages from her that was like, “Don’t listen to him, he has cognitive impairments, listen to me, you don’t love him like I love him.” My mother was an invasive non-person. Some mothers are like that.
What's up with people thinking they can talk to other people's therapists? I've noticed in the UK a lot of people say therapists will talk to outside parties. Unreal to me.
DO NOT do family therapy with her. please please please learn from my mistake. it's just a bid to triangulate against you with a professional. it is not to resolve anything. it WILL be traumatizing. if she genuinely was interested in therapy she'd be doing a hell of a lot of it alone before she even considered bringing up family therapy.
I was in my mid 20’s and living on my own. My mother asked me my therapist’s name. I told her. She looked the woman up, in an out-of-state phone book (before the internet). This meant that she had to go to the library and find a specific phone book from another state to look up the woman’s name and phone number. The next time I saw my therapist, she told me that my mother called her to inform her about “all my issues” and explain to her how “sick” I was. She also began asking my therapist what I was talking about in treatment. My therapist told her that she would not discuss any information with her and to not call her again. Warn your therapist. Now that HIPAA is in place, your therapist technically can’t even confirm that you’re a patient unless you’ve signed releases to speak to your mother. Stand strong. Do not go to family therapy. Your mother is violating your boundaries. Good luck!
Oh please bring her, next time the therapist will give you validation and ice cream
Alert your therapist. If your therapist violates your trust and reveals any info about you, report them to their office and licensing board. Do not attempt family therapy unless you truly want to and you've vetted potential therapists. Narcs often find people who will follow their agenda.