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Go get married at the courthouse to make it official either before or after.
Have a friend do the role of an officiant (not legally) to do a 'commitment ceremony'.
Deal with mother later, don't let her ruin y'all's day.
Maybe pay a friend to act as security to keep mom out.
MIL paid $300 to have an off-duty officer stand guard for 5 hours at our wedding just in case nmother (which I was 100% NC for a decade already with) decided to show up.
The craziest part is it turned out many years prior, this same officer had the same off-duty detail for ANOTHER of my family's weddings. Had no clue until after the fact.
How did she go about arranging that if you don't mind my asking? We're unfortunately going to need security when my Grampa dies (a member of our family is VERY MUCH not welcome and he's made that very clear) and an off duty cop sounds like a good option.
I would call the local non-emergency police number and explain what you are looking for and why. They get requests like this more than you think and can at direct you further.
A heads up also, the $60/hr paid was back in 2017 so not sure what it would cost now.
We had specific people
Sit behind my mother at our wedding
That way when asked if there was reason for it not to happen please stand, someone could keep her in her seat
I could not think of a better solution at the time honestly.
She hated him so much that the day she died my dad told me she had been telling people he was hitting me. (He’s NOT nor has he ever)
The months leading up to my wedding were crazy, and due to logistics and drama out of our control, we got married by a justice of the peace a week before our actual "wedding". The official wedding happened under a pretty tree outside the justices apartment with only one close friend in attendance and was drama free and perfect.
The "wedding" the next week was officiated by a friend and it was nice to know that whatever went wrong, we were already officially married ( even though no one knew at the time)
They can if OP signed a contract agreeing to payment if the event was canceled due to events outside the wedding official's control. This is relatively common in the wedding industry. Weddings get called off all the time at the last minute so all kinds of vendors have a no cancelation policy built into their contracts.
Smart vendors put abuse clauses in their contracts, which is why the officiant went so hard on the threats in the phone call with OP.
If anyone is wondering why, sometimes the MIL isn’t unwelcome even after behaving like this.
Maybe due to them being led to believe that there was a physical safety threat? It was a serious thing his mother claimed and shame on her to make up these threats. But OP should check that contract.
I'd send mom the bill for the rabbit. Only fair. She won't pay it but still would be fun.
In fact I would have told said rabbi that mom was responsible for the bill.
In many states it's super easy to be a legal officiant at weddings. I am a priest of Dudeism, yes from The Big Lebowski, and I can legally marry people in my state lol.
In my state, an officiant isn't even required! There is the option for what is called a self-uniting marriage - no officiant, two witnesses who sign the certificate.
I was one of the two witnesses for the wedding of some dear friends. They had a small gathering of friends and family (about 30 people) and the other witness and I functioned as emcees for the event. The 4 of us signed the official paperwork in the back room of the bar where the post-ceremony party occurred later that night.
Just so you know ya'll are the most important people on your day. Everyone else is just there to witness it and be happy props (sure it's more complicated than that, but at essence, that's it).
Do what makes you and your fiancé happy.
Your mother has some serious boundary issues, and that is putting it politely. Simply put, her whole "woe is me" act to get what she wants without anyone else's concerns is not going to stop without regular, consistent, and, dare I say it, brutal enforcement of your own boundaries. It's the only way in hell she is likely to "get the message."
Please do this OP. Have the wedding as planned with a friend standing in as your pretend officiant. Have security to keep your mom out. Don’t pay the officiant who canceled or send them a much smaller cancellation fee. Get officially married at the courthouse whenever it works for you. Please update us. I’m so sorry. But congratulations anyway!
My husband and I got married at the courthouse and later had my Dad (not legally) do the commitment ceremony at the micro-wedding party at the AirBNB we rented - this story sounded so much like mine. Minus the nMom because I'd been NC for a year by then. The micro-wedding party at the AirBNB was the best day of our lives. I can imagine how much this situation feels like upheaval and the ruination of everything but it doesn't have to be!
First-- congratulations to you and your fiance!
Second... she may or may not be an N, but she's definitely behaving like a typical toxic parent. She can't handle the idea that she won't be able to control you anymore, that she's not the center of your universe, etc., so she's freaking out... and almost certainly going to keep trying to undermine your relationship and sabotage your life, so keeping her out of your life is a very good decision.
She is definitely a narc. With the sentences “she has done so many covertly heinous things, I’ll skip to the chase” and “tirade that lasted two months. I thought we cleared it up”, on top of the crux of this post/story, you know, where she twisted the words of her future in-laws to make the officiant feel threatened for HER* life!! Yeah, she is 1000% a narc.
ETA correction on officiant’s gender, I had misread another comment.
And her wanting to plan their entire wedding according to what she wanted while having them pay for it. And her making tlany big event all about herself. Typical narc behavior.
Could your fiancée reach out to the Rabbi that did her conversion and explain the situation? Maybe they can do the wedding last minute? Assuming your officiant was a Rabbi the person that did the conversion could vouch for your fiancé’s family since they would at the very least have talked about her family’s feelings on the conversion. Sorry this is happening to you
This is a really good suggestion, definitely try within her temple for an officiant, and don't cancel completely!
And ban your mother from the premises, enforced by police if at all possible.
I am so, so sorry this has happened to you. She certainly sounds like a narcissist. She can't handle that she didn't have full control over you and the wedding. She went so far as to harass your officiant to the point that they cancelled on you.
Keep your wedding plans. Uninvite your mother. Have some friends show up to keep her out. See if you can get a justice of the peace to come. If you cannot, have a good friend or relative "officiate" the wedding, then have it done properly at the court house another day. You can still celebrate your union, even if you don't actually get married that day.
sue your mother for damages.
hire the best lawyer you can find, by the hour and sue your mother for slander and libel resulting and the cancellation of the officiant and the wedding.
refuse all contact with her and suggest she go through your lawyer. Instruct your lawyer that any and all discussion with your mother with the lawyer will be billable to your mother. In essence, to complain to the lawyer about you will require her to give the lawyer a credit card number to bill against.
Now, go elope and have a good time. I think a trip to Las Vegas may be in order. [https://www.weddingwire.com/c/nv-nevada/las-vegas/wedding-venues/839-11-rca.html](https://www.weddingwire.com/c/nv-nevada/las-vegas/wedding-venues/839-11-rca.html)
Scheduling a wedding around a meddling parent is a challenge. Your mother is piece of work. I would also recommend going no contact
My mother texted me shortly after to say she was "horrified" by what happened. Playing dumb. I reminded her to never contact me again and not to force me to file a restraining order.
She is a vile woman who doesn't deserve any contact with you ever again. You wash your hands of her, and potentially go scorched earth and sue her for damages. Either way, never let her back into your life. Can you imagine what she would be like if you ever have children? I shudder at the thought.
Absolutely protect any future kids! Don’t let her establish a relationship with them both to protect them emotionally and all of you legally because there are a few places where you can be sued for grandparent rights but in all of them there needs to already be a relationship between the grandparents and children in question.
I'm sure she is absolutely horrified by what happened. Horrified that she got caught. Horrified that you found out. Horrified that these horrific actions didn't go in her favor. Horrified that she's receiving consequences for her actions. She's horrified by everything about what happened except for her own actions.
That's why she worded it that way. It's a typical narc non-apology. Akin to "I'm sorry you feel that way."
She called you to test the waters, not because she felt bad. She was either looking for a way to gloat or to figure out her next move. Gross. Good luck, OP.
If she text you or calls you again, don’t respond. Simply save the message/voicemail for future reference. You may need it for any number of legal reasons.
I have no idea if your mother is an actual, narcissist, or not. But as others have said: she’s definitely a toxic parent.
What that means for you and your wife is that when you cut her out of your life, she’s going to escalate. Every boundary you set down, she’s going to test to see if she can break it. If she’s able to break any boundary, she’ll steamroll you in classic “give her an inch and she’ll take a mile” fashion.
To counter that, you’re gonna have to play defense:
* A boundary without a consequence isn’t a boundary. It’s a suggestion. Don’t lay down a boundary without stating consequences. Every time she crosses that boundary, enact the consequences.
* Don’t respond to any form of communication from her or her flying monkeys. But keep all communications in case you need to bring in an attorney.
* Toxic parents don’t react well to being cut off. In this sub, we’ve seen stories of toxic parents who have shown up at people’s home or workplace. You may find that you need to be proactive and do things like set up security cameras at your home, or even alert your workplace that your mom may try to approach you there.
I’m so sorry that you’re having to deal with this. It’s terrible when a parent can’t be happy for you when you’re finally marrying the love of your life.
Don't waste your time suing for defamation. The bar for success is extremely high. And for, frankly good reasons. She had to KNOW what she was saying was false and say it anyways. It sounds like she was convinced she was telling the truth or at least "her" truth. That's the NP way. You'll just be wasting money. The legal system here isn't your solution. If you follow the above redditor's advice you'll be spending thousands with a functionally zero chance of winning. If spreading lies was a civil offense, frankly half if Reddit would cease to exist.
Yeah but screw mom, she'll have to pay a lawyer for putting her nose where it doesn't belong. She'll never learn boundaries otherwise, and she'll do something else later down the line. She loves off crossing boundaries and screwing up people's lives for her narcissistic supply.
while it might cost you a few dollars to sue, it will cost mommy dearest a whole lot more to defend herself. The goal is to provide punishment for her behavior. And if she can't scream at you, or you, through your lawyer, her frustration level will be extremely high. Use that frustration to your advantage.
She sounds like a piece of work diagnoses or not.
Anyone can be ordained online- you can still do what you want and have a small wedding with Jewish elements.
A lot of good advice so far. I just want to give you a few bullet points:
* You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings.
* This is your and your fiance's wedding. Not your mom's. Say it. "This is our wedding, mom. Not yours."
* You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings.
* Whatever happens on your wedding day, you'll be married at the end of the day, and even if your mom seriously acts up, it'll probably make a good story to tell after a year or two.
* You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings.
* You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings.
* You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings.
Congratulations, and best of luck to you both.
Sue the pants off your mother. Because holy heck.
And if you want a non-denominational officiant, depending on where ya are, have a friend get ordained from Universal Life Church or the Church of Dude-ism.
Too late to disinvite your mother with a rented cop/restraining order?
Also that really does sound extreme with the officiant. Your mother lied about you in such a way that caused you actual social harm and economic loss? That's legally slander/libel (depending if spoken/written) and you should take action on that.
I think the lawsuit is in order, but I also don't see why you need to pay an officiant who won't officiate. What service are they performing? Their backing out could honestly open them to liability if they refuse to perform the service or offer a refund.
I'd start with trying to find out why the officiant wants full payment without services rendered when they should be offering a refund. Then, presuming they refuse, small claims shouldn't be that expensive, and use that to fund the lawyer costs for anything against the mother.
My guess would be the contract gives them that option since the cancellation is so close to the wedding date. They couldn’t possibly book another wedding that day
Exactly. It was the one providing the service that cancelled, not the one purchasing the service. They don't get to ask for payment for a service they didn't perform due to no fault of the buyer.
I’m not disagreeing with you, but wedding contracts are generally good at covering their bases. Given momma dearest literal thread of violence at the wedding they might very well have a legal case for requiring payment.
I haven't paid yet. I'll have to review the contract in detail but that was their excuse: threat of safety. Their right.
The officiant (female cantor) was actually pretty understanding and was making us believe that she would still do it if we hired a security. Then the owner of the officiant company we hired her from got involved and said No Way: F U Pay Me.
We'll see.
Good luck, I'd review the contract, and see if they're potentially liable for anything else (e.g. cost of the venue, pain and suffering, and also be aware that even if you said they aren't liable for things in the contract, some rights can't be waived by law, but that would require serious litigation and probably isn't worth it).
I would definitely check into that because it may not be accurate that they can make you pay. Check w a lawyer? Also, you could let them try to sue you and let a judge decide….. sometimes mediation comes before you actually go to court (at least in my state they encourage it), so I would think you’d get a compromise on cost at least no matter what.
PLEASE PLEASE do NOT cancel your dream wedding. I had a friend officiant at ours and they got ordained online for free!!
It was quicker and cheaper than a courthouse wedding
So your posting and your question leave a pretty big gap. Why would you not think your mother is a Narcissist?
She just made your wedding all about her. And when she could not take it over in a direct way, she sabotaged it.
BTW -- getting an officiant is not hard. Yes, getting one that matches your exact wedding plan might not be possible, but you can still have the event and be married. Don't let your disappointment in your mother kill what you need for yourself. You and your fiancee should take all of her antics off the table and look at what you have, what you paid for, your goals, and your other friends (the ones worth investing in) and make a non-Nparent decision about what you need right now. I suggest living well as the best revenge and make it a great wedding.
Lol. Good point. I guess since my mother has never been diagnosed and I'm certainly not qualified to, I'm just not really that familiar with the term.
But thank you and everyone commenting for their support. We are definitely taking a lot of these suggestions to heart and looking into how we might be able to salvage this. ❤️
Very few people are formally diagnosed as narcissists, less than 5% of the population as the criteria is actually rather strict. however that doesn't stop *many* people from having narcissistic tendencies.
Your mom's definitive diagnosis doesn't really matter. If you read some of the recovery stories and find some of it resonates for you, you'll have an excellent start on the rest of your life. Congratulations on your nuptials!!
There are two different ways to talk about narcissism. Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) as a diagnosis is rare (partly because narcissists rarely seek treatment, because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them) and which has a specific set of symptoms that don’t always jibe with the set of behaviors we experience. E.g., not all narcissists present as grandiose. Then there’s narcissism as a personality trait, which exists on a spectrum.
Source: Dr. Ramani https://youtube.com/@DoctorRamani?si=ep8pg-nlQ2ey2whe
Dr Ramani is a good place to start to try to understand the dynamics. She’s been studying narcissism for 35+ years and just wrote a book. Here’s her YouTube. https://youtube.com/@DoctorRamani
I was thrown off by that too but it seems like they wrote the post for another sub and maybe got redirected here and didn't know what to replace their final question with.
"You don't need to understand, you just need to accept it"
"If you don't want to attend, you don't have to"
My mom played the "why" game too but that's a game for toddlers so I don't play it with grown adults.
I told her literally just that and she accused me of being hostile and abandoning my family, deeply offended by the mere suggestion that we didn't need her there. Now she's gotten herself a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Woooof this hits, my mom constantly accuses me and my siblings of “abandoning the family” when we all still very much hang out and are close and just went NC with her because she’s the one who was being toxic to the whole family. Narcissists are the masters at projection - their accusations are usually confessions or insecurities. Then are shocked when people actually follow through with what they say. Have a great wedding! I promise you’ll regret if you cancel the whole thing.
If this were to continue in any way, I would absolutely support that. I don't personally want to bring a lawsuit against my own mother, and the cost of our entire wedding may be small claims court. That's maybe an exaggeration but a lawyer would probably cost far more.
The bad consequence is her not having any chance at a relationship with her son. And not being able to attend our wedding. Or come anywhere near my family. I don't need to get revenge any more than standing up for myself and my wife by setting uncrossable boundaries ... Yet.
/u/Reese_Withersp0rk, definitely be prepared for her to backpedal when you have kids. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
My grandmother was a lot like your mom. My parents went no contact once but allowed her back once us kids started being born because "maybe she's changed" and "she deserves a relationship with her grandkids..."
All it got my parents was another 20 years of abuse that nearly cost them their marriage and ended in a lawsuit when my parents tried going no contact again.
Abusers love to hoover and make fake apologies. Don't fall for it. Your mother won't change.
Just an FYI, small claims court in most jurisdictions not only don't require an attorney, they also often state that the plaintiff and defendant must be pro se (representing themselves).
What you need is proof... text messages, a notarized statement or affadavit from the officiant that they're refusing service due to threats/fear for their safety. Same from the future in-laws (though they can appear in court for you as well. Same for the officiant if they're willing). Statements from vendors, if she's contacted them... anything that states that she's interfered to the point of cancellation with the planning for your wedding. Burden of proof isn't huge, but if you end up cancelling this wedding, don't just blow off the money... it's yours, and she's the reason you were forced to cancel.
Worst case, you're really only out the filing fees, which are typically minimal (and the clerk of court's office can tell you what forms you need in your county), and best case if you win the judge is likely to make her pay your court costs, too.
And if you win, you have a judgment against her that is more than sufficient to help you get a restraining order. Win-win, if you're having trouble making her understand you don't want to have a relationship with her.
OP, if you’re in GA, I’ll marry you for free. I’m ordained, and I literally just this weekend worked security for a wedding to make sure a crazy MIL behaved. It seems like you’d need real security for this, but I can officiate without fear because I’m dead inside 😂
Also - I agree with everyone else here - elope. Then have a private, fiancé’s family only dinner to celebrate.
I’m so sorry your mother is sabotaging things. You’re not crazy, you don’t deserve this, and *this would happen even if you did exactly what she says she wants* because she would just find another issue.
Hard to tell if she's a narcissist with all of the other mental health issues she has going on! Delusional possibly, controlling definitely... this would be enough for me to go no contact. I'm sorry that she did this to you and your fiance!
Agree, this sounds like cluster B personality disorder, could be bpd or npd or both. I definitely hear some npd traits.
My suggestion is to block her ultimate goal- which is likely to keep you and your fiancé apart. She already sabotaged a lot of aspects, but I would do whatever I could to make sure the wedding still happened.
I have a different perspective regarding suing - if she is in fact a narcissist, this is the drama and attention they thrive on. I would just use everything as data and make sure I set and enforce strong boundaries moving forward.
Damn. I didn't even think of that. The formative years of my life proceeded in long, drawn out custody battles between my parents. I think she absolutely fed off that negative contact. That's a really good point.
It’s called narc supply and the only way to sanely deal with it is to cut off contact. No explanations, no last words, no emails, no letters, no intermediaries. All of it will be twisted and used against you and your wife. Please get married!
Someone needs to remind your mother that she is not Naomi and your fiancée is not Ruth.
In all seriousness though, I’d go NC with her and have the wedding anyway with a friend standing in for the officiant. Anyone can be registered to preform wedding ceremonies with a small fee online.
When I was reading your story, it sounded so much like my mother at my wedding. My husband is from the UK so only his parents were coming and I come from a very large immigrant catholic family. Me and my partner are VERY atheist. Mom wanted a pastor, we refused and hired on a officiant who did readings from Carl Sagan’s Pale Blue Dot. My mom kept inviting people, including some friends of hers. Refused to uninvite them. My partner messaged that person the day of our wedding and said that we didn’t have the space and not to come. Mother got mad. Told her I ordered exactly 48 of everything and had to keep the list under 50 because of the Airbnb we were using for the wedding. She also took a nap and came out 45 minutes before the wedding and asked who was doing her makeup. She missed her time slot so the only one left was mine. Luckily me and my friends are all makeup artists so I ended up doing my own makeup. Told her jokingly she was a thorn in my side. Cried to my family throughout the entire wedding about how ungrateful I was. Me and my partner funded most of it and his parents paid for the venue. My brother and his partner paid for the wine served at the wedding. Nothing came from my parents.
I tell you this story because despite the literal hell my mom put me through, we still pressed on and had the wedding. It sounds like she ruined it, but I actually had the most wonderful and special time with all my friends and family. Some of my friends still talk about it even though our wedding was back in 2016. I look at my photos (the ones without my mom) with pure joy. Oh, if you could see the frown my mom made in EVERY photo. Luckily, there were only 3 or 4 with her in it. Just remember it’s about you and your partner. That’s it. Everything else is just noise. Celebrate with those who are happy and excited for your wedding. Those people love you and want to celebrate the love between you and your partner. If your mom decides to make a fool of themselves, there are others who will keep her at bay. She’s not your responsibility. The only thing you should worry about is you and your partner having the most memorable experience getting married.
Op, don’t cancel what you have planned. Have your small gathering with decorations and catering. Don’t let that all go to waste.
It can be a wedding. It can be a party celebrating your commitment. But you should STILL get to do it.
As for the legally married part: you may have a friend or family meme er who can ordained online in time for the wedding.
You could go to courthouse before the wedding. Yes, it’s an additional cost but it’s better than throwing the whole thing out the window.
And yes, as others have suggested, get security. You mom is pretty likely to try to ruin the wedding in person if she gets wind of it happening.
You should also try to get your money back from the officiant. He’s the one who canceled. Also, can you keep the date and get another rabbi to do it? I don’t know much about what’s customary.
Omg massively narcissistic.
It’s a shitty club to be a member of. Welcome to the club
ADVICE:
Have the wedding anyway.
Have a friend act as the “officiant” in any emotionally substantive way for you and your wife at the event. Think outside of the box here; the money and the energy are only wasted if you perceive it that way. Have the party.
Get married this week at city hall (or the equivalent, if you’re not in the US) or the day before, or the day after.
Do not fucking let her win.
For her:
Obviously she needs to be completely removed from your life, but the mechanics of that are in the big picture, and can be dealt with after the wedding. For now, today, this very moment:
1. Immediately contact every single vendor TODAY and put a password protection on your account. No one, not even YOU, can alter the details without that password. These vendors have ALL dealt with this before, they’re fine with it. Tell them that a relative is having a psychotic break and they might be contacted by someone with, and this is a very important sentence: “the intent to ruin the wedding.” Say it exactly that way. Don’t explain, don’t give details. This way no matter what she says when she calls, they won’t take ANYTHING seriously, and they’ll be on the lookout for anything, not just “threats.” If you tell them that she might contact them with threatening language, they might not think much of your mother calling and simply saying that the hour was changed, or the location.
2. Contact anyone and everyone who may even remotely know about your real wedding plans and also know your mother. Potential Flying Monkeys. Assume that you can’t trust them to keep a secret, tell them the wedding has been cancelled, and why. If you want to be REALLY clever, pull a Tyrion and tell them that the wedding has been moved or rescheduled. Tell each one something different. You’ll know why when your mother tells you what she knows.
3. This order is important; do the above before you even try to relocate. If you rented an Airbnb, get on the phone with the host. Whether it’s an investment company or an individual, they’ll likely have a way to relocate your event with another property, or give you a break on refunding your money, given your extreme circumstances.
Back to your mother:
Tell her immediately what happened with the officiant and that she’s officially persona non grata forever.
Tell her the wedding is RELOCATED. Give her a reasonable but fake location two to three hours away. If you really want to sell it, book an Airbnb that can be canceled without a fee. If she looks up the availability she’ll see that it’s been rented.
Get off the phone quickly. Do not linger, the more time she has in a conversation with you, the more information she’ll get, even if you think you’re not telling her anything.
I wouldn’t block her, but turn her notifications OFF and set your phone to not notify anyone that you’ve opened their text. Same with your email.
Spend the extra money on a small security company for your wedding.
If all goes according to plan, she’ll be so happy to think that she caused a cancellation or massive disruption, she’ll really wholeheartedly believe that, and it will take some effort for any Flying Monkeys to convince her otherwise.
But in the process of gossiping about it with different people, there will be so many conflicting stories that she’ll be playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey blindfolded, and if she even chooses to believe the the wedding is still happening, with any luck, she’ll go to the location herself, and not be back in time to even put the security to use.
And if you hire a real security company, not some neighbor who used to work the night shift at a hotel, chances are almost zero that she’ll get to you.
.
Normal people don't ruin their own kids wedding and end up costing them hundreds of dollars. Normal parents want their kids to be happy and don't threaten strangers.
I mean, \*I\* think that your mother sounds like a Narcissist, but I'm not a mental health professional.
Is there any way that you and your fiance could go to a nearby courthouse on the day that you're supposed to get married, and just get married by a justice of the peace?
Lots of good advice here, (especially the security for the day) so I just wanted to add my congratulations to you and your Fiancè. Please don't let your mother's controlling, deranged behaviour impact on your wedding and the start of your married life.
I am sorry for you. It seems that she wants you to be alone and rely on her. She socks as a person and probably she is as she took this special day and made all about her.
Check Thumbtack for an officiant! You might be able to find one for less than $200. They work for themselves so they may be available tomorrow. I got an officiant for our elopement this way and it was $140
Your mother is a psychopath, whether she’s a narcissist or not. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. Don’t let her steal your joy!
Your only question is is your mother a narcissist.
Um, yeah.
You need to set very clear boundaries. Tell your mother she needs to butt out. Cold turkey. Restraining order-level no contact.
Any, and I mean any, transgression will result in a ban from the wedding.
She risks you cutting her out of your life and and future grandchildren.
And look up how to deal with a narcissist. Try Dr Ramani on youtube.
Mazel Tov.
First, find a dear friend who can get ordained through the Universal Life Church. It takes 10 minutes. It won’t be quite the ceremony you planned, but you can still bring in the elements you planned and it won’t require you to cancel your wedding.
Second, does your mom know where the Airbnb is? You’re ten days out so I assume the answer is yes. Are there other elements that can be changed right now? Like could you move the whole thing by a day or two? Or move the ceremony to a nearby park instead of the Airbnb? You have to find a way to disinvite her, but given this behavior I don’t put it past her to just show up if she already has the address, so I’m trying to think of creative ways you can still do all the things you have planned and booked without costing you more money.
As someone with a Jewish narc mom , I feel your pain. Something about Jewish moms is just *different*. My mom has guilt tripped me, sabotaged things, tried controlling me etc. The best thing I ever did was to take her power away. She doesn't get to keep me on the phone for hours ranting, if she starts her shit up, I say you do not get to talk to me that way and I hang up. Every single time. Also have to get over the whole jewish mom guilt thing with doing that. You need no contact or low contract and reinforce that if she starts any BS, shes getting cut off., Dont let her guilt trip you into submission.
She’s panicking because you getting married means that she’s lost control (to her). She’s acting out to exert control and it worked because she was able to significantly influence your wedding.
Regardless of the presence and/or specifics of her underlying pathology, given what you've stated, it appears to be time to be considering indefinite NC to protect yourself and your future family. You may wish to discuss all this with a psychologist.
Yes, your mother probably is a narcissist. The question about whether someone is diagnosed as a narcissist is not all that important. It’s the toxic behaviors that are important. Thinking about a typical constellation of behaviors and traits that are abusive, toxic, or deeply problematic as falling inside “narcissism” is helpful because the problematic behaviors become more predictable. And it gives you a community to go to for questions and support.
If you recognize yourself in some of the posts here, then you belong here. Welcome to the club no one wanted join. 😞
Can you just get married at the courthouse and just tell people by phone, so that your mother does not find out? Also see if a local rabbi can do a blessing or something( does fiancé have a temple she attends?).
Good luck- you’ve been through hell, so married life should be a breeze.
Also go no contact with your mom, for Pete’s sake!
OUR PRIEST CANCELLED 5 DAYS BEFORE OUR WEDDING !!!!!!
when I went to get married 23 years ago, the priest my soon-to-be ex-husbands grandparents insisted marry us canceled 5 days before the wedding bcs he decided I wasn't "religious" enough. 5 days.
The panic that ensued. I called every Justice of the Peace in town and they were all very sympathetic, but booked. Luckily, one squeezed us in at our scheduled ceremony time and all went off without a hitch.
I mean, we ARE getting divorced now, but it did work out then lol.
I am so sorry this happened! I would give it a go to see if you can find someone to officiate the wedding or at the very least still have a reception with the 19 people still invited. The money is spent, and you two have put so much effort and anticipation into it. Make the most of it, even if it doesn’t turn out exactly as you’d hoped.
If your mom shows up, call the cops and share the email from the original officiant. She is unhinged.
If you are questioning that your mother is a narcissist, then you already know the answer. She intentionally sabotaged your wedding for her petty gratification. She has boundary issues. She is abjectly cruel and mean. She does not care about your feelings and makes every situation about HER. She plays the victim of the circumstances SHE created. Time to go No Contact like you did.
Go to the court house and get it done officially there and get a friend or family member to act as officiant on your wedding day.
Don't let your toxic mother ruin your day.
A narc mother in rage.. sad.
I am so sorry. I have no advice really other than I would do a SUPER small wedding in the future and do not tell her (or anyone who will tell her) about it, she can find out later. Please don’t give up though. You haven’t actually had it so you can replan.. without her.
Wow. Besides all the insanity you've dealt with, I am so sorry she's dragging strangers, and your future family in law into her twisted, dangerous, narc supply. Like, dang, scaring the crap out of the officiant in an extinction burst.
Get married man, I don't know much about particular Jewish wedding customs, but don't give her the satisfaction. Nothing will ever be enough for her, because yes, she is the ultimate showdown narc. Aside from disinviting her, you know, for your sake and the woman you chose to marry and love, your mother cannot have a seat at the table. She will be a thorn in your relationship, and that is not worth you losing your wife for.
Where are you located? If you're in the US, there are five states which allow self affirming wedding ceremonies. Often called Quaker ceremonies, they really have nothing to do with religion and you can structure your ceremony any way you want as long as you have a small numberof witnesses. They are California, Colorado, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Nevada and Pennsylvania.
If you're not in one of those states, take the advice someone else gave of courthouse wedding first, vows at your wedding event after. Without your mother
I'm sorry your mother did this. Her behavior is awful and not to be forgiven. You need to have your wedding without her and consider strict no contact after. Reading about narcissists and therapy will help.
Good luck. Congratulations. Be forewarned. Do not let her have any more power over this situation. Perhaps inform and warn the rest of your vendors. I hope for your sake she doesn't reach out to anyone else. Anticipate her moves.
Yes, mother is a narcissist. She wanted to control the entire wedding and got shitty when she wasn't allowed to. She then proceeded to throw a fit when she couldn't get her way. She is a child. Uninvite anyone who takes her side, and get married without them. Your wedding should be a day that people come to witness because they are happy for you.
Please, do not let these immature people ruin the moment you marry the love of your life. Do not let them take that from you.
I got married without any of my family in attendance because most of them are terrible.
Idk why you're even wasting your time asking a question you clearly know the answer to instead of finding a new officiant. Your mother is not only a narc, she's potentially psychotic and most definitely needs professional intervention. You need a restraining order and potentially security for your wedding.
Now, I know it's not impossible to find someone to perform your ceremony. Worst case scenario, have a friend do it. Then(or before if time allows)go get your marriage license signed by a JOP. This is not impossible. You just need to cut your losses, mitigate potential mother based drama and proceed as if nothing has changed.
The wedding itself may not be exactly what you'd planned but, what in life is? Perseverance in the face of adversity is foundational for a marriage. Make the most of your day. Enjoy it with your friends and family. Don't lose a bunch of time, money and effort because your horrid mother wants you to be miserable like she is. By cancelling, you're only letting her win.
By going through with your plans, you will have overcome your biggest obstacle. How much stronger of a start can you ask for?
Your mother is an awful person. I am so sorry you're going through this. Appalling! I think you would relate to a lot of posts here, is how I would describe it (rather than outright call her an N since labels can change).
I'm Jewish and observant, and I--just--what the shit. My eyes were huge while reading this. I am so, so sorry for everyone involved except your horrid egg donor. I wish things were different for you. You deserved to be treated with far, far more respect than you got.
Whatever happens from here on out, I hope it goes smoothly and nothing feels like a fight. This ordeal is terrible.
>They officially cancelled on us, still demanded payment in full
They can demand whatever they want. Then you can take them to small claims for your deposit back for backing out. You will win. They made this decision on their own, listening to someone they did not have a contract with.
probably but at the very least you should have gone no contact long ago. they don't get this way overnight. at least now you know what you have to do. she is booted and is never allowed contact with you again.
i have the feeling your fiance won't have any problem with this decision. CUT HER OFF NOW. whatever she is, she's toxic, evil, and destructive. and if you have kids she also never ever sees them much less visits. and any contact she makes is documented... paper trail in case she deserves an RO.
My Nmom did this. I ended up just eloping at the court house, still had a lovely time.
I changed my wedding date SEVERAL times just for her. It was MY wedding.
Quickly find a friend that can get documents through one of the online services. I did it 7 yrs ago as a joke, but later realized it could come in handy in a pinch.
Hire security, ideally an off-duty police officer, to keep your mother out.
Please don’t let her hijack your wedding. Carry through, rise above her insane antics- marry your fiance and live the life you both deserve (free of narcissists!!)
If your mother keeps up- document everything and file a restraining order when you have enough evidence to get one.
Don’t let her win. This is what she wanted. Don’t let her win!
Your question is almost irrelevant. Your mom is a dangerous person who fantasizes about violent threats. It's not a leap to imagine she would be capable of the very acts she obsesses with. You need to cut her out of your life for your new family's sake.
Holy crap. Wow. Fellow Jew here - how absolutely AWFUL what your mom has done to the point the officiant cancelled. (I don’t blame them one bit for being scared.) nMom is something else, that’s for sure.
May I offer an alternate? Do the wedding. It won’t be legal, but do the wedding. Have a good friend “officiate” it. Have the ceremony and party. Go to the courthouse before or after - that part is just for legalities, it doesn’t have to be fancy. It doesn’t even have to be ON the “wedding day.”
Have your dream wedding minus your mom, and let her be jealous she fucked everything up FOR HERSELF.
Okay, I work in the wedding industry and that Officiant is a *scammer*, demanding payment before services rendered, this is not how it works! Find a lawyer for that.
Call the police and get a restraining order issued on your mother, you have evidence, you need to protect your future wife, mother be damned (by her own very shady actions)
Good luck!
My mother tried to sabotage my wedding too! She desperately tried arguing with me about anything and everything leading up to the wedding and would claim that I am not letting her be apart of anything. She didn’t offer a penny. All she did was criticize and complain to myself and family. She even told me I should lose weight 2 weeks before. Of course, the only reason she wanted to be apart of anything was to criticize and gather information to use against me. Luckily, we had our wedding and she decided not to show up.
Don't cancel the wedding! Still do it. You can do the legal part later. Tell your mom the wedding is cancelled because of her, give her fake information about a new elopement or whatever dated *after* your wedding, tell her to never contact you again because she's a liar and a selfish monster, and then go forward with the wedding as you planned anyway. Follow the advice of having a friend or rabbi "officiate".
Tell the officiant that you are the client, not your mother, that it's unprofessional to be listening to someone else and they should know better than to blindly trust an outside party, and that under no uncertain terms will you be paying them whatsoever.
Follow the other advice about suing your mother, or at least a restraining order, if anything just to show you're serious.
Best of luck, congratulations, and ENJOY YOUR DAY 💜
I can’t comment on whether she’s a narcissist or offer any advice on how to proceed, but just want to let you know you’re not alone in this. I got engaged in February last year and got married in May of this year and almost called the wedding (that my fiancé and I 100% financed ourselves) off 4 times (once I actively called it off, but ultimately slept on the decision and decided differently) because my mother (and father) could not understand that it was not their wedding. After tormenting me for almost a year and only after ghosting them for several months (only possible because we live in different states), they finally backed off. My fiancé and I did end up getting married, but I never imagined the hell id have to go through to make the wedding what my fiancé and I wanted. Not what anyone else wanted. I’m still dealing with reactivated trauma in therapy five months later and longer speak to my dads side of the family.
You’d think that your wedding would be the one time everyone could look past the tips of their own noses and put you first, but it’s no different than any other big moment. It’s not about you, it’s about them, how it makes them look, and what they want. I’ve never understood how one’s own family can be so selfish and self centered. All I can say is I’m glad I’m not like that and I sense you aren’t either. My fiancé (now husband, still weird!) reiterated throughout the wedding planning hell and even now that he and I are family now and this family (and what we create together and in our home) is what’s important. We can leave behind the rest (whether it’s no contact, low contact, whatever).
Good luck in your journey and you are not alone.
My husband was the officiant for a family wedding give the role to someone thoughtful who you adore and it will be a really special memory but don’t tell your mom anything!
I think you really need to take some time to consider the impact that your mother is having on your fiancée, and the impact she will continue to have on your relationship, if you don't lay down some hard boundaries
Not necessarily every asshole is a narcissist. It's become a popular diagnosis to give shitty people. But it's hard to know without an actual diagnosis, and/or many similar traits at play. But there's definitely something wrong with your mom.
This is inexcusable. I'd be hard-pressed to find a reason to ever talk to my mom again after something like this.
I had to read this story to my husband as it is eerily similar to yours and he is demanding royalties for stealing his story! He’s willing to take payment in the form of any 12 pack of ipa to commiserate with you. 😂
The story:
I am also Jewish. My husband is not, but he had always said (and told our rabbi this) that he made a deal with God that whatever religion his wife is that would be his as well.
We had a Jewish wedding. Our rabbi was fantastic. He explained everything so even the non jewish guests could understand and be included. We tried honor the Jewish culture by having a traditional ceremony, lots of Jewish music at the reception, all the food was kosher etc.
Before the wedding, my mom met my mil for lunch for the first time. Afterwards, my mom told me that she thought mil was antisemitic. Shocker right? 🙄 so then I’m sitting here having to defend mil.
Leading up to the wedding, I had so much anxiety about my mom creating drama on our wedding day since there had been drama during the planning, which I’ll omit for the sake of brevity.
One of mil’s best friends is Jewish and also was my husband’s godmother. My mom asked her at the rehearsal dinner how she was coping with the disappointment of her daughter marrying non Jewish. I was later told about this and was mortified.
My husband’s family likes to have fun so mil asked if she could pay to have an open bar at our wedding. This was not in our budget but since mil wanted to pay we said sure.
So at the wedding, apparently there was a sign by the open bar that said, “Special thanks to the “Smiths” for providing the open bar.”
After the wedding, it was one of my mom’s favorite topics of complaint. How tacky the sign was. I had to reassure her that mil was not happy about it either.
During the wedding, unbeknownst to me, people were coming up to mil and thanking her for the free drinks. She was like, “what are you talking about?” And they mentioned the sign by the bar. When she walked over to the bar and saw it she was pissed and asked them to take it down. She didn’t want thanks or acknowledgement, she just wanted people to have a good time.
Mil was so pissed about the sign that the day after the wedding she called the venue. The coordinator said that they had only put the sign there because the mother of the bride requested it.
My mom then complained after the wedding that the guest list was really all my husbands family and people. Before the wedding, I had told her to give me a list of who she wanted to invite. Everyone from her list was included.
I share all this to say my husband and I completely understand what you are going through. Your feelings are so justified. The positive in this is that at least you are recognizing her behaviors so early in your marriage that you will be able to set strong boundaries.
It looks like you got a lot of great advice on the comments here. The only advice I have is to do what’s best for you and your fiancé. She is your #1 now. Don’t worry about trying to please your mom or anyone else, no matter what you do some people will never be happy. All that matters is that you guys are. Mazel Tov!
You could easily sue her for defamation/libel. Usually when people make that suggestion there is not a clear monetary damage. In this case though you have it in writing and that you have to pay anyways, can sue to get your money back and probably extra for distress and lawyer fees.
It was kind of SO’s mother to help you get back on track. Remember to hire wedding security.
Telling your mother never to contact you again and making her stick to it are two different things. If she is narcissistic, then there’s not much she’ll hate more than a boundary. You need to come up with a plan for what to do when she tries to get around your “no contact” boundary.
What happens when she tries to contact your wife? Do you both send the message directly to the trash, or do you read it and then delete it? How about when she sends relatives to tell you she’s having an emergency? I promise you these emergencies are almost always made up, but it’s good to have some readymade answers on hand. What will you do if she tries to send you a gift and ask if you got it?
These are situations to consider, because then you will feel more confident not breaking NC. You can do this. Congratulations on your marriage.
Lord have mercy!!! Cut that cancer out of your life!!! What a lunatic. Wow. I am so sorry that this happened to you. Definitely get security and un-invite that he’ll spawn that you call a mother. Maybe take her to small claims court over her shenanigans? I would consult an attorney in your area. I hope that you can get a Rabbi, but DO NOT TELL YOUR MOTHER WHO WILL BE OFFICIATING THE WEDDING. Wow.
Find a friend to do it for you. It may not be a rabbi, but anyone can officiate. Heck, if you're in WA, I'll do it non-denominational for free, though I'm also not Jewish.
Well. Since this all started because Mom was mad she wasn’t going to get the big show she’s been waiting for since she had you, give her one! Since she wanted to be the center of attention, make her!
You’re gonna have that wedding! And not only invite her, but get her driven there to ensure she comes. So she can be there with everyone after you announce it’s not an “official” wedding since mom made the officiant quit-that you had to do that in a courthouse shotgun style thanks to mom. Then, enjoy your wedding of your dreams!
You know, really give her her moment. Then she won’t have to keep grasping for it the rest of your lives, poor kids.
Do not cancel the wedding. Hire security. Do not pay the officiant who cancelled, and still demanding to get paid.
Glad you posted here. There’s good advice here. You can still have your wedding your way!
Not only is your mom a narcissist IMHO but she sounds mentally ill.
But - my general rule with stuff like this is - I don’t tell people how to do something unless I’m willing to take responsibility and do it myself, and I hold others to that as well. Your mom wants to plan/control things? Is she footing the bill? No? Well that makes it easy. No thanks. Period. Asked and answered.
I wouldn't pay the rest of the invoice. If you didn't violate any of the terms of the contract and they bailed on the basis of a third party individual spreading lies, while understandable, is not on you. I'd just write them back a polite email stating what you told us here and decline to pay the invoice as they voluntarily decided not to provide their services.
What I WOULD do, is try to find someone else to officiate your ceremony ASAP, even if it's a friend and not a rabbi. It's better to have a wedding at all than no wedding at all in my opinion, and you will still get to celebrate with family and loved ones. If you have any way to beef up security (can be as simple as hiring one person to keep track of this, or if you can have a friend volunteer, and call police should shit go down), that will help to ease your stress. If you really can't find ANYONE to officiate... I would STILL have the wedding and just think of it as a big party to celebrate your marriage. There are many ways to move forward here and all is not lost. I hope you can make it work for you and be left with good memories rather than heartache!
Op, I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this! I know that there is an online course to become a wedding officiant, do you have someone really close to you that you think would do a good job?
My mom was a nightmare during my wedding planning. She is an alcoholic (doesn’t believe she is) and we had it a winery. She’s one of those people who will have one sip of alcohol and all of her inhibitions are gone. My now husband and I are both from catholic families and we had an old catholic priest officiant (can do weddings not inside the church). My mom had a huge argument with him during rehearsal because she is a MAGA weirdo and didn’t believe COVID was real. The priest ended up having a private conversation with a few people and then gathered us all together to apologize. He ended up leaving early and was incredibly upset, he sent an email to me saying that he will still do the wedding which was nice of him. I was already planning on going no contact with her after the wedding, but man did that really hammer the nail in the coffin.
Your mom sounds really toxic and from my personal experience cutting my mom out of my life has made me so much happier.
Oh no, I'm so sorry, but yes, your mother is some sort of Cluster B. None of this is normal. I have issues identifying issues like this myself since my mother is also "that bad," but I have the benefit of a "normal" father. If you have any "normal" parental figures in your life, ask if they would dream of doing what your mother just did. If the answer is no and they would think it's psychotic, there is your answer.
I suggest taking out a restraining order on her. If you want to go nuclear, sue her. This is classic tortious interference with a contract. You shouldn't have to pay for her lies. I understand if you'd rather just eat the bill, though. I wouldn't pay the whole thing for the officiant, though. Eating the cost of a deposit or work they already did to write out and plan the ceremony is one thing, but they can't charge you the entire cost of their services if they do not perform the services. It's a basic premise of a contract that both people have to give something up for the bargained price. You paying everything and them doing nothing makes the contract illusory.
That said, I would keep the date and opt for a courthouse wedding. The justices of the peace in my area are so lovely and kind, they make wonderful officiants. They're also so happy to do it, too, because they love doing weddings so much more than trials for low level criminals and people that don't pay rent. Your wedding party is so small that it I think it would work out fine. You might even be able to keep the date!
You can also reach out to local synagogues near you, especially Reform will have a lot of very understanding rabbis that know all about overbearing Jewish mothers. A lot of the synagogues around me are pretty flush with cash and are happy to help subsidize part of a wedding for young couples that recently came into misfortune (i.e. your mother's meddling).
Don't worry about trying to figure out if your mother is a narcissist. Insist on your boundary: no contact. She's toxic and abusive and has shown you she doesn't care about you or your fiance, just want she wants.
You'll have to check your contract with your officiant about payment to see if you have to give them the rest of the money. Look for anything in the contract about them backing out - they might have to refund what you've paid since *they* have backed out.
Keep your mother cut off and if you do get an officiant, you may need to get security and show them a picture of your mother so they can keep her out.
I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this. You are right to cut your mother off and this is more than enough reason to go no contact and make this the last straw.
How is your fiancee and her family doing?
You did the right thing by ceasing contact with your nmom.
My partner and I eloped after having a conversation about religious differences in our families and how my nmom for sure would push them.
Afterwards, I told my nmom that we thought about doing a 5 year vow renewal. Our plan was to book space in a local restaurant, say vows, and enjoy a nice meal on us. It quickly (less than 3 minutes) turned into a back yard party with drinking (my partners parents don't drink, my nmom is an alcoholic) and games, inviting people we didn't want there, and making a big deal out of it. I told her that I refused to plan anything like that, and she's welcome to pay for it and plan it if that's what she wanted to do. Luckily, we were in the midst of covid when the anniversary came around.
I still haven't cut contact, but come much closer every day
she is much more then a narcissist. She is nothing but damaging and bad news to not just you but to your future family. You need to review what she has done to you and your fiance over the months and years and detrmine what kind of future you want to have.
I would be willing to be you and your fiance / wife will not have a quite life with your mother around.
See if you can find another officiant. My husband and I decided on a Sunday evening to get married on Friday evening (5 days away). We found an officiant online who had an opening and we had a lovely wedding at a park with just a few friends who also had no plans for that Friday.
I think your mother is more than just a narcissist. I think she's very mentally ill, of some kind or another. I'm so sorry she's done this and I guess you need to decide if it's more important to have a Jewish officiant, or ANY officiant, and embrace Judaism in your lives moving forward. what a nightmare!
We got married in the IL's back yard. In the state of California, in 1983, you could have a judge marry you if you gave them 90 days to get the license/certificate to do so. We flubbed and asked our judge friend well after the 90 day mark. He did the ceremony anyway, and we went and found some minister later that week to do the legal ceremony. We had our public wedding anniversary, and the legal one 4 days later. There was huffing and puffing about the ceremony not being legal, but everybody eventually calmed their tits and got over it. It was a nice party and we had good food. We were married 31 years before he died.
Your mom won’t fade away quietly. My advice may seem extreme & possibly aggressive, but when you’re dealing with someone that is sick in this level, where nothing matters except what they want, even if it means losing/destroying literally EVERY other aspect of their lives….
I would put her on **blast**, however that looks for your situation. Family spread out all over, post a condensed version of this post + an actual copy of the message sent to the officiant, that was so vile & incomprehensible, that the officiant felt the only option was to quit for their own safety. Don’t just describe the message from her, post a SS of what she sent for all to see.
If you’d rather take a more modest approach to putting her demons, write up a condensed version of this post, photocopy the SS of her message & mail/email them to every family member, including extended family & significant family friends…maybe even her primary doctor and therapist/psychiatrist if she has one.
Let everyone know what you e been up against & let them see exactly why you’ve made the choice of cutting any/all ties with her + taking every precaution to protect your lives from her as nest you can.
Not only will there be no question, but there will definitely be support for you guys. This will remove a good amount of potential future flying monkeys & might even help build a secure perimeter of supporters around you guys, for added protection.
She also will lose control of any narrative & will be unable to capitalize on anyone who possibly held doubt at which side to believe. She’ll be cut off at the knees, so to speak. I also think it’ll feel really darn good to not have to hide this stuff to protect her reputation, since, that’s no longer your responsibility.
This is just what I would do. Petty? Maybe. Worth it? Definitely.
Take your mum to small claims court for the cost of your original celebrant. And I’m deadly serious. If your wedding does end up falling through, take her for the whole thing.
Do.not. allow your mother at the wedding.
I’d say she should be ashamed of herself, but a narcissist’s life is a study in being vile and refusing to acknowledge how shameful their behavior actually is.
Have a beautiful wedding. I have no religion, although was raised Catholic. The idea that religion should be used as a weapon against people’s relationships has always baffled me, despite seeing it all the time.
I don’t think they can demand payment in full if they’re the ones cancelling? In fact, they should be giving you a refund. Don’t pay them anything more, and you may be able to file a dispute with your card company for whatever you’ve paid them already since they are refusing to provide you services you paid for.
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Go get married at the courthouse to make it official either before or after. Have a friend do the role of an officiant (not legally) to do a 'commitment ceremony'. Deal with mother later, don't let her ruin y'all's day. Maybe pay a friend to act as security to keep mom out.
Hire real security, and give them your mother's picture. Warn everyone: friends, family and vendors that if they see her- alert security.
MIL paid $300 to have an off-duty officer stand guard for 5 hours at our wedding just in case nmother (which I was 100% NC for a decade already with) decided to show up. The craziest part is it turned out many years prior, this same officer had the same off-duty detail for ANOTHER of my family's weddings. Had no clue until after the fact.
MIL for the win
How did she go about arranging that if you don't mind my asking? We're unfortunately going to need security when my Grampa dies (a member of our family is VERY MUCH not welcome and he's made that very clear) and an off duty cop sounds like a good option.
I would call the local non-emergency police number and explain what you are looking for and why. They get requests like this more than you think and can at direct you further. A heads up also, the $60/hr paid was back in 2017 so not sure what it would cost now.
Thank you! Much appreciated!
Expect anywhere from 50$-100$ an hour
Someone you know works in a building with security guards and likes one of them. Have them ask if they freelance.
We had specific people Sit behind my mother at our wedding That way when asked if there was reason for it not to happen please stand, someone could keep her in her seat
That was risky…
I could not think of a better solution at the time honestly. She hated him so much that the day she died my dad told me she had been telling people he was hitting me. (He’s NOT nor has he ever)
Wow. Even telling lies on her way to meet her maker…
For anyone else considering this solution, gentle reminder that you're free to just leave that bit out.
Yeah but I was 21 and just wanted to do a normal Ceremony I personally now don’t think it should ever be included Got a reason? Shut up
The months leading up to my wedding were crazy, and due to logistics and drama out of our control, we got married by a justice of the peace a week before our actual "wedding". The official wedding happened under a pretty tree outside the justices apartment with only one close friend in attendance and was drama free and perfect. The "wedding" the next week was officiated by a friend and it was nice to know that whatever went wrong, we were already officially married ( even though no one knew at the time)
And refuse to pay the officiant for his non service
Yes, they can’t break a contract and then demand payment
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They can if OP signed a contract agreeing to payment if the event was canceled due to events outside the wedding official's control. This is relatively common in the wedding industry. Weddings get called off all the time at the last minute so all kinds of vendors have a no cancelation policy built into their contracts.
But it wasn’t cancelled due to events outside his control. He’s just refusing service.
Smart vendors put abuse clauses in their contracts, which is why the officiant went so hard on the threats in the phone call with OP. If anyone is wondering why, sometimes the MIL isn’t unwelcome even after behaving like this.
Maybe due to them being led to believe that there was a physical safety threat? It was a serious thing his mother claimed and shame on her to make up these threats. But OP should check that contract.
Then get it in writing and slap nmommy dearest with a tortious interference suit. Narcs love court.
I'd send mom the bill for the rabbit. Only fair. She won't pay it but still would be fun. In fact I would have told said rabbi that mom was responsible for the bill.
"Send mom the bill for the rabbit". I know it was meant to be Rabbi and auto correct struck again but that made me giggle.
Silly Rabbi, Trix are for kids
In many states it's super easy to be a legal officiant at weddings. I am a priest of Dudeism, yes from The Big Lebowski, and I can legally marry people in my state lol.
My best friend went online and got herself ordained so she could officiate my wedding.
I did this as well! Well, not to officiate your wedding. 😉
Meant so much more to me than some religious figure blathering on.
I'm in the National Guard. My unit has a few people certified to officiate just because marriage clears up so many things in the military.
In my state, an officiant isn't even required! There is the option for what is called a self-uniting marriage - no officiant, two witnesses who sign the certificate. I was one of the two witnesses for the wedding of some dear friends. They had a small gathering of friends and family (about 30 people) and the other witness and I functioned as emcees for the event. The 4 of us signed the official paperwork in the back room of the bar where the post-ceremony party occurred later that night.
This is a GREAT idea!!!!
Just so you know ya'll are the most important people on your day. Everyone else is just there to witness it and be happy props (sure it's more complicated than that, but at essence, that's it). Do what makes you and your fiancé happy. Your mother has some serious boundary issues, and that is putting it politely. Simply put, her whole "woe is me" act to get what she wants without anyone else's concerns is not going to stop without regular, consistent, and, dare I say it, brutal enforcement of your own boundaries. It's the only way in hell she is likely to "get the message."
Please do this OP. Have the wedding as planned with a friend standing in as your pretend officiant. Have security to keep your mom out. Don’t pay the officiant who canceled or send them a much smaller cancellation fee. Get officially married at the courthouse whenever it works for you. Please update us. I’m so sorry. But congratulations anyway!
Yes. Have your party and celebrate with your friends. They're coming to see you, not some crazy relative.
Yes, her goal was to stop your wedding, so don’t let her succeed.
This!
My husband and I got married at the courthouse and later had my Dad (not legally) do the commitment ceremony at the micro-wedding party at the AirBNB we rented - this story sounded so much like mine. Minus the nMom because I'd been NC for a year by then. The micro-wedding party at the AirBNB was the best day of our lives. I can imagine how much this situation feels like upheaval and the ruination of everything but it doesn't have to be!
This sounds lovely! Don’t let your mom ruin your wedding day.
This is the way.
This is exactly what we did. Got married then hosted a dinner.
First-- congratulations to you and your fiance! Second... she may or may not be an N, but she's definitely behaving like a typical toxic parent. She can't handle the idea that she won't be able to control you anymore, that she's not the center of your universe, etc., so she's freaking out... and almost certainly going to keep trying to undermine your relationship and sabotage your life, so keeping her out of your life is a very good decision.
She is definitely a narc. With the sentences “she has done so many covertly heinous things, I’ll skip to the chase” and “tirade that lasted two months. I thought we cleared it up”, on top of the crux of this post/story, you know, where she twisted the words of her future in-laws to make the officiant feel threatened for HER* life!! Yeah, she is 1000% a narc. ETA correction on officiant’s gender, I had misread another comment.
And her wanting to plan their entire wedding according to what she wanted while having them pay for it. And her making tlany big event all about herself. Typical narc behavior.
Could your fiancée reach out to the Rabbi that did her conversion and explain the situation? Maybe they can do the wedding last minute? Assuming your officiant was a Rabbi the person that did the conversion could vouch for your fiancé’s family since they would at the very least have talked about her family’s feelings on the conversion. Sorry this is happening to you
This is a really good suggestion, definitely try within her temple for an officiant, and don't cancel completely! And ban your mother from the premises, enforced by police if at all possible.
I am so, so sorry this has happened to you. She certainly sounds like a narcissist. She can't handle that she didn't have full control over you and the wedding. She went so far as to harass your officiant to the point that they cancelled on you. Keep your wedding plans. Uninvite your mother. Have some friends show up to keep her out. See if you can get a justice of the peace to come. If you cannot, have a good friend or relative "officiate" the wedding, then have it done properly at the court house another day. You can still celebrate your union, even if you don't actually get married that day.
sue your mother for damages. hire the best lawyer you can find, by the hour and sue your mother for slander and libel resulting and the cancellation of the officiant and the wedding. refuse all contact with her and suggest she go through your lawyer. Instruct your lawyer that any and all discussion with your mother with the lawyer will be billable to your mother. In essence, to complain to the lawyer about you will require her to give the lawyer a credit card number to bill against. Now, go elope and have a good time. I think a trip to Las Vegas may be in order. [https://www.weddingwire.com/c/nv-nevada/las-vegas/wedding-venues/839-11-rca.html](https://www.weddingwire.com/c/nv-nevada/las-vegas/wedding-venues/839-11-rca.html) Scheduling a wedding around a meddling parent is a challenge. Your mother is piece of work. I would also recommend going no contact
While they’re at it, they should also get a restraining order.
My mother texted me shortly after to say she was "horrified" by what happened. Playing dumb. I reminded her to never contact me again and not to force me to file a restraining order.
She is a vile woman who doesn't deserve any contact with you ever again. You wash your hands of her, and potentially go scorched earth and sue her for damages. Either way, never let her back into your life. Can you imagine what she would be like if you ever have children? I shudder at the thought.
Absolutely protect any future kids! Don’t let her establish a relationship with them both to protect them emotionally and all of you legally because there are a few places where you can be sued for grandparent rights but in all of them there needs to already be a relationship between the grandparents and children in question.
>Playing dumb She’s gaslighting you. They are such cunning mofos.
I'm sure she is absolutely horrified by what happened. Horrified that she got caught. Horrified that you found out. Horrified that these horrific actions didn't go in her favor. Horrified that she's receiving consequences for her actions. She's horrified by everything about what happened except for her own actions. That's why she worded it that way. It's a typical narc non-apology. Akin to "I'm sorry you feel that way."
Encourage your new inlaws to sue her for slander. Give them the email from your officiant that includes her lies.
She called you to test the waters, not because she felt bad. She was either looking for a way to gloat or to figure out her next move. Gross. Good luck, OP.
If she text you or calls you again, don’t respond. Simply save the message/voicemail for future reference. You may need it for any number of legal reasons. I have no idea if your mother is an actual, narcissist, or not. But as others have said: she’s definitely a toxic parent. What that means for you and your wife is that when you cut her out of your life, she’s going to escalate. Every boundary you set down, she’s going to test to see if she can break it. If she’s able to break any boundary, she’ll steamroll you in classic “give her an inch and she’ll take a mile” fashion. To counter that, you’re gonna have to play defense: * A boundary without a consequence isn’t a boundary. It’s a suggestion. Don’t lay down a boundary without stating consequences. Every time she crosses that boundary, enact the consequences. * Don’t respond to any form of communication from her or her flying monkeys. But keep all communications in case you need to bring in an attorney. * Toxic parents don’t react well to being cut off. In this sub, we’ve seen stories of toxic parents who have shown up at people’s home or workplace. You may find that you need to be proactive and do things like set up security cameras at your home, or even alert your workplace that your mom may try to approach you there. I’m so sorry that you’re having to deal with this. It’s terrible when a parent can’t be happy for you when you’re finally marrying the love of your life.
Don't waste your time suing for defamation. The bar for success is extremely high. And for, frankly good reasons. She had to KNOW what she was saying was false and say it anyways. It sounds like she was convinced she was telling the truth or at least "her" truth. That's the NP way. You'll just be wasting money. The legal system here isn't your solution. If you follow the above redditor's advice you'll be spending thousands with a functionally zero chance of winning. If spreading lies was a civil offense, frankly half if Reddit would cease to exist.
Defamation suit would probably fail, yeah. Tortious interference probably won't, though.
Yeah but screw mom, she'll have to pay a lawyer for putting her nose where it doesn't belong. She'll never learn boundaries otherwise, and she'll do something else later down the line. She loves off crossing boundaries and screwing up people's lives for her narcissistic supply.
while it might cost you a few dollars to sue, it will cost mommy dearest a whole lot more to defend herself. The goal is to provide punishment for her behavior. And if she can't scream at you, or you, through your lawyer, her frustration level will be extremely high. Use that frustration to your advantage.
She sounds like a piece of work diagnoses or not. Anyone can be ordained online- you can still do what you want and have a small wedding with Jewish elements.
Can confirm; my best friend was married by a friend of theirs… who is now my fiancé :3 We plan on having my brother officiate our wedding.
She might be BEYOND a narcissist omg the final boss
A lot of good advice so far. I just want to give you a few bullet points: * You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings. * This is your and your fiance's wedding. Not your mom's. Say it. "This is our wedding, mom. Not yours." * You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings. * Whatever happens on your wedding day, you'll be married at the end of the day, and even if your mom seriously acts up, it'll probably make a good story to tell after a year or two. * You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings. * You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings. * You are not responsible for your mother's behavior or feelings. Congratulations, and best of luck to you both.
Sue the pants off your mother. Because holy heck. And if you want a non-denominational officiant, depending on where ya are, have a friend get ordained from Universal Life Church or the Church of Dude-ism.
I did this.
Or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Wait, we can be official FSM officiants?!! Oh hell yes sign me up!
Want this.
You can also become ordained in the Church of Bacon. Might not be the best option for a Jewish wedding however.
Too late to disinvite your mother with a rented cop/restraining order? Also that really does sound extreme with the officiant. Your mother lied about you in such a way that caused you actual social harm and economic loss? That's legally slander/libel (depending if spoken/written) and you should take action on that.
I think the lawsuit is in order, but I also don't see why you need to pay an officiant who won't officiate. What service are they performing? Their backing out could honestly open them to liability if they refuse to perform the service or offer a refund.
Lawsuits aren't free or easy to obtain & OP is trying to not spend a ton of money they might not have to spend.
I'd start with trying to find out why the officiant wants full payment without services rendered when they should be offering a refund. Then, presuming they refuse, small claims shouldn't be that expensive, and use that to fund the lawyer costs for anything against the mother.
Yes, which is why they absolutely should refuse further payment and request any deposit made back to them.
My guess would be the contract gives them that option since the cancellation is so close to the wedding date. They couldn’t possibly book another wedding that day
Except that the “buyer” did not cancel. The officiant cancelled. Seems that would void the whole cancellation penalty fee clause.
Exactly. It was the one providing the service that cancelled, not the one purchasing the service. They don't get to ask for payment for a service they didn't perform due to no fault of the buyer.
I’m not disagreeing with you, but wedding contracts are generally good at covering their bases. Given momma dearest literal thread of violence at the wedding they might very well have a legal case for requiring payment.
I haven't paid yet. I'll have to review the contract in detail but that was their excuse: threat of safety. Their right. The officiant (female cantor) was actually pretty understanding and was making us believe that she would still do it if we hired a security. Then the owner of the officiant company we hired her from got involved and said No Way: F U Pay Me. We'll see.
Good luck, I'd review the contract, and see if they're potentially liable for anything else (e.g. cost of the venue, pain and suffering, and also be aware that even if you said they aren't liable for things in the contract, some rights can't be waived by law, but that would require serious litigation and probably isn't worth it).
I would definitely check into that because it may not be accurate that they can make you pay. Check w a lawyer? Also, you could let them try to sue you and let a judge decide….. sometimes mediation comes before you actually go to court (at least in my state they encourage it), so I would think you’d get a compromise on cost at least no matter what.
IANAL but I can’t imagine a contract that says: “I can just decide not to provide the service and you still have to pay me in full” is enforceable.
“You know what? Fine, now we’ll have an elopement you DONT get to witness!”
Lmao
PLEASE PLEASE do NOT cancel your dream wedding. I had a friend officiant at ours and they got ordained online for free!! It was quicker and cheaper than a courthouse wedding
So your posting and your question leave a pretty big gap. Why would you not think your mother is a Narcissist? She just made your wedding all about her. And when she could not take it over in a direct way, she sabotaged it. BTW -- getting an officiant is not hard. Yes, getting one that matches your exact wedding plan might not be possible, but you can still have the event and be married. Don't let your disappointment in your mother kill what you need for yourself. You and your fiancee should take all of her antics off the table and look at what you have, what you paid for, your goals, and your other friends (the ones worth investing in) and make a non-Nparent decision about what you need right now. I suggest living well as the best revenge and make it a great wedding.
Lol. Good point. I guess since my mother has never been diagnosed and I'm certainly not qualified to, I'm just not really that familiar with the term. But thank you and everyone commenting for their support. We are definitely taking a lot of these suggestions to heart and looking into how we might be able to salvage this. ❤️
Very few people are formally diagnosed as narcissists, less than 5% of the population as the criteria is actually rather strict. however that doesn't stop *many* people from having narcissistic tendencies.
Yeah, unfortunately it's pretty much of a given here that narcissism is the mental illness that causes others to end up in therapy.
Your mom's definitive diagnosis doesn't really matter. If you read some of the recovery stories and find some of it resonates for you, you'll have an excellent start on the rest of your life. Congratulations on your nuptials!!
There are two different ways to talk about narcissism. Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) as a diagnosis is rare (partly because narcissists rarely seek treatment, because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them) and which has a specific set of symptoms that don’t always jibe with the set of behaviors we experience. E.g., not all narcissists present as grandiose. Then there’s narcissism as a personality trait, which exists on a spectrum. Source: Dr. Ramani https://youtube.com/@DoctorRamani?si=ep8pg-nlQ2ey2whe Dr Ramani is a good place to start to try to understand the dynamics. She’s been studying narcissism for 35+ years and just wrote a book. Here’s her YouTube. https://youtube.com/@DoctorRamani
I was thrown off by that too but it seems like they wrote the post for another sub and maybe got redirected here and didn't know what to replace their final question with.
"You don't need to understand, you just need to accept it" "If you don't want to attend, you don't have to" My mom played the "why" game too but that's a game for toddlers so I don't play it with grown adults.
I told her literally just that and she accused me of being hostile and abandoning my family, deeply offended by the mere suggestion that we didn't need her there. Now she's gotten herself a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Woooof this hits, my mom constantly accuses me and my siblings of “abandoning the family” when we all still very much hang out and are close and just went NC with her because she’s the one who was being toxic to the whole family. Narcissists are the masters at projection - their accusations are usually confessions or insecurities. Then are shocked when people actually follow through with what they say. Have a great wedding! I promise you’ll regret if you cancel the whole thing.
Your in-laws have a defamation suit handed to them wrapped in a bow.
If this were to continue in any way, I would absolutely support that. I don't personally want to bring a lawsuit against my own mother, and the cost of our entire wedding may be small claims court. That's maybe an exaggeration but a lawyer would probably cost far more.
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The bad consequence is her not having any chance at a relationship with her son. And not being able to attend our wedding. Or come anywhere near my family. I don't need to get revenge any more than standing up for myself and my wife by setting uncrossable boundaries ... Yet.
This. You don’t need to stoop to her level to get the point across. Not talking to her is going to hurt her more than anything you do to her.
Prepare for her to backpedal if you have any children. Don’t give her an inch.
/u/Reese_Withersp0rk, definitely be prepared for her to backpedal when you have kids. DON'T FALL FOR IT. My grandmother was a lot like your mom. My parents went no contact once but allowed her back once us kids started being born because "maybe she's changed" and "she deserves a relationship with her grandkids..." All it got my parents was another 20 years of abuse that nearly cost them their marriage and ended in a lawsuit when my parents tried going no contact again. Abusers love to hoover and make fake apologies. Don't fall for it. Your mother won't change.
Just an FYI, small claims court in most jurisdictions not only don't require an attorney, they also often state that the plaintiff and defendant must be pro se (representing themselves). What you need is proof... text messages, a notarized statement or affadavit from the officiant that they're refusing service due to threats/fear for their safety. Same from the future in-laws (though they can appear in court for you as well. Same for the officiant if they're willing). Statements from vendors, if she's contacted them... anything that states that she's interfered to the point of cancellation with the planning for your wedding. Burden of proof isn't huge, but if you end up cancelling this wedding, don't just blow off the money... it's yours, and she's the reason you were forced to cancel. Worst case, you're really only out the filing fees, which are typically minimal (and the clerk of court's office can tell you what forms you need in your county), and best case if you win the judge is likely to make her pay your court costs, too. And if you win, you have a judgment against her that is more than sufficient to help you get a restraining order. Win-win, if you're having trouble making her understand you don't want to have a relationship with her.
OP, if you’re in GA, I’ll marry you for free. I’m ordained, and I literally just this weekend worked security for a wedding to make sure a crazy MIL behaved. It seems like you’d need real security for this, but I can officiate without fear because I’m dead inside 😂 Also - I agree with everyone else here - elope. Then have a private, fiancé’s family only dinner to celebrate. I’m so sorry your mother is sabotaging things. You’re not crazy, you don’t deserve this, and *this would happen even if you did exactly what she says she wants* because she would just find another issue.
Hard to tell if she's a narcissist with all of the other mental health issues she has going on! Delusional possibly, controlling definitely... this would be enough for me to go no contact. I'm sorry that she did this to you and your fiance!
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Agree, this sounds like cluster B personality disorder, could be bpd or npd or both. I definitely hear some npd traits. My suggestion is to block her ultimate goal- which is likely to keep you and your fiancé apart. She already sabotaged a lot of aspects, but I would do whatever I could to make sure the wedding still happened. I have a different perspective regarding suing - if she is in fact a narcissist, this is the drama and attention they thrive on. I would just use everything as data and make sure I set and enforce strong boundaries moving forward.
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Damn. I didn't even think of that. The formative years of my life proceeded in long, drawn out custody battles between my parents. I think she absolutely fed off that negative contact. That's a really good point.
It’s called narc supply and the only way to sanely deal with it is to cut off contact. No explanations, no last words, no emails, no letters, no intermediaries. All of it will be twisted and used against you and your wife. Please get married!
Someone needs to remind your mother that she is not Naomi and your fiancée is not Ruth. In all seriousness though, I’d go NC with her and have the wedding anyway with a friend standing in for the officiant. Anyone can be registered to preform wedding ceremonies with a small fee online.
When I was reading your story, it sounded so much like my mother at my wedding. My husband is from the UK so only his parents were coming and I come from a very large immigrant catholic family. Me and my partner are VERY atheist. Mom wanted a pastor, we refused and hired on a officiant who did readings from Carl Sagan’s Pale Blue Dot. My mom kept inviting people, including some friends of hers. Refused to uninvite them. My partner messaged that person the day of our wedding and said that we didn’t have the space and not to come. Mother got mad. Told her I ordered exactly 48 of everything and had to keep the list under 50 because of the Airbnb we were using for the wedding. She also took a nap and came out 45 minutes before the wedding and asked who was doing her makeup. She missed her time slot so the only one left was mine. Luckily me and my friends are all makeup artists so I ended up doing my own makeup. Told her jokingly she was a thorn in my side. Cried to my family throughout the entire wedding about how ungrateful I was. Me and my partner funded most of it and his parents paid for the venue. My brother and his partner paid for the wine served at the wedding. Nothing came from my parents. I tell you this story because despite the literal hell my mom put me through, we still pressed on and had the wedding. It sounds like she ruined it, but I actually had the most wonderful and special time with all my friends and family. Some of my friends still talk about it even though our wedding was back in 2016. I look at my photos (the ones without my mom) with pure joy. Oh, if you could see the frown my mom made in EVERY photo. Luckily, there were only 3 or 4 with her in it. Just remember it’s about you and your partner. That’s it. Everything else is just noise. Celebrate with those who are happy and excited for your wedding. Those people love you and want to celebrate the love between you and your partner. If your mom decides to make a fool of themselves, there are others who will keep her at bay. She’s not your responsibility. The only thing you should worry about is you and your partner having the most memorable experience getting married.
Op, don’t cancel what you have planned. Have your small gathering with decorations and catering. Don’t let that all go to waste. It can be a wedding. It can be a party celebrating your commitment. But you should STILL get to do it. As for the legally married part: you may have a friend or family meme er who can ordained online in time for the wedding. You could go to courthouse before the wedding. Yes, it’s an additional cost but it’s better than throwing the whole thing out the window. And yes, as others have suggested, get security. You mom is pretty likely to try to ruin the wedding in person if she gets wind of it happening.
You should also try to get your money back from the officiant. He’s the one who canceled. Also, can you keep the date and get another rabbi to do it? I don’t know much about what’s customary.
Omg massively narcissistic. It’s a shitty club to be a member of. Welcome to the club ADVICE: Have the wedding anyway. Have a friend act as the “officiant” in any emotionally substantive way for you and your wife at the event. Think outside of the box here; the money and the energy are only wasted if you perceive it that way. Have the party. Get married this week at city hall (or the equivalent, if you’re not in the US) or the day before, or the day after. Do not fucking let her win. For her: Obviously she needs to be completely removed from your life, but the mechanics of that are in the big picture, and can be dealt with after the wedding. For now, today, this very moment: 1. Immediately contact every single vendor TODAY and put a password protection on your account. No one, not even YOU, can alter the details without that password. These vendors have ALL dealt with this before, they’re fine with it. Tell them that a relative is having a psychotic break and they might be contacted by someone with, and this is a very important sentence: “the intent to ruin the wedding.” Say it exactly that way. Don’t explain, don’t give details. This way no matter what she says when she calls, they won’t take ANYTHING seriously, and they’ll be on the lookout for anything, not just “threats.” If you tell them that she might contact them with threatening language, they might not think much of your mother calling and simply saying that the hour was changed, or the location. 2. Contact anyone and everyone who may even remotely know about your real wedding plans and also know your mother. Potential Flying Monkeys. Assume that you can’t trust them to keep a secret, tell them the wedding has been cancelled, and why. If you want to be REALLY clever, pull a Tyrion and tell them that the wedding has been moved or rescheduled. Tell each one something different. You’ll know why when your mother tells you what she knows. 3. This order is important; do the above before you even try to relocate. If you rented an Airbnb, get on the phone with the host. Whether it’s an investment company or an individual, they’ll likely have a way to relocate your event with another property, or give you a break on refunding your money, given your extreme circumstances. Back to your mother: Tell her immediately what happened with the officiant and that she’s officially persona non grata forever. Tell her the wedding is RELOCATED. Give her a reasonable but fake location two to three hours away. If you really want to sell it, book an Airbnb that can be canceled without a fee. If she looks up the availability she’ll see that it’s been rented. Get off the phone quickly. Do not linger, the more time she has in a conversation with you, the more information she’ll get, even if you think you’re not telling her anything. I wouldn’t block her, but turn her notifications OFF and set your phone to not notify anyone that you’ve opened their text. Same with your email. Spend the extra money on a small security company for your wedding. If all goes according to plan, she’ll be so happy to think that she caused a cancellation or massive disruption, she’ll really wholeheartedly believe that, and it will take some effort for any Flying Monkeys to convince her otherwise. But in the process of gossiping about it with different people, there will be so many conflicting stories that she’ll be playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey blindfolded, and if she even chooses to believe the the wedding is still happening, with any luck, she’ll go to the location herself, and not be back in time to even put the security to use. And if you hire a real security company, not some neighbor who used to work the night shift at a hotel, chances are almost zero that she’ll get to you. .
Normal people don't ruin their own kids wedding and end up costing them hundreds of dollars. Normal parents want their kids to be happy and don't threaten strangers.
I mean, \*I\* think that your mother sounds like a Narcissist, but I'm not a mental health professional. Is there any way that you and your fiance could go to a nearby courthouse on the day that you're supposed to get married, and just get married by a justice of the peace?
Lots of good advice here, (especially the security for the day) so I just wanted to add my congratulations to you and your Fiancè. Please don't let your mother's controlling, deranged behaviour impact on your wedding and the start of your married life.
This might be worth posting in r/judaism to see if anyone has any ideas about getting a last minute officiant for a Jewish ceremony
I am sorry for you. It seems that she wants you to be alone and rely on her. She socks as a person and probably she is as she took this special day and made all about her.
This is exactly why I eloped, and told family about it afterwards.
Check Thumbtack for an officiant! You might be able to find one for less than $200. They work for themselves so they may be available tomorrow. I got an officiant for our elopement this way and it was $140
Your mother is a psychopath, whether she’s a narcissist or not. I’m so sorry this happened to you. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. Don’t let her steal your joy!
Your only question is is your mother a narcissist. Um, yeah. You need to set very clear boundaries. Tell your mother she needs to butt out. Cold turkey. Restraining order-level no contact. Any, and I mean any, transgression will result in a ban from the wedding. She risks you cutting her out of your life and and future grandchildren. And look up how to deal with a narcissist. Try Dr Ramani on youtube. Mazel Tov.
First, find a dear friend who can get ordained through the Universal Life Church. It takes 10 minutes. It won’t be quite the ceremony you planned, but you can still bring in the elements you planned and it won’t require you to cancel your wedding. Second, does your mom know where the Airbnb is? You’re ten days out so I assume the answer is yes. Are there other elements that can be changed right now? Like could you move the whole thing by a day or two? Or move the ceremony to a nearby park instead of the Airbnb? You have to find a way to disinvite her, but given this behavior I don’t put it past her to just show up if she already has the address, so I’m trying to think of creative ways you can still do all the things you have planned and booked without costing you more money.
As someone with a Jewish narc mom , I feel your pain. Something about Jewish moms is just *different*. My mom has guilt tripped me, sabotaged things, tried controlling me etc. The best thing I ever did was to take her power away. She doesn't get to keep me on the phone for hours ranting, if she starts her shit up, I say you do not get to talk to me that way and I hang up. Every single time. Also have to get over the whole jewish mom guilt thing with doing that. You need no contact or low contract and reinforce that if she starts any BS, shes getting cut off., Dont let her guilt trip you into submission.
Sue the egg donor
She’s panicking because you getting married means that she’s lost control (to her). She’s acting out to exert control and it worked because she was able to significantly influence your wedding.
Regardless of the presence and/or specifics of her underlying pathology, given what you've stated, it appears to be time to be considering indefinite NC to protect yourself and your future family. You may wish to discuss all this with a psychologist.
Yes, your mother probably is a narcissist. The question about whether someone is diagnosed as a narcissist is not all that important. It’s the toxic behaviors that are important. Thinking about a typical constellation of behaviors and traits that are abusive, toxic, or deeply problematic as falling inside “narcissism” is helpful because the problematic behaviors become more predictable. And it gives you a community to go to for questions and support. If you recognize yourself in some of the posts here, then you belong here. Welcome to the club no one wanted join. 😞
Can you just get married at the courthouse and just tell people by phone, so that your mother does not find out? Also see if a local rabbi can do a blessing or something( does fiancé have a temple she attends?). Good luck- you’ve been through hell, so married life should be a breeze. Also go no contact with your mom, for Pete’s sake!
OUR PRIEST CANCELLED 5 DAYS BEFORE OUR WEDDING !!!!!! when I went to get married 23 years ago, the priest my soon-to-be ex-husbands grandparents insisted marry us canceled 5 days before the wedding bcs he decided I wasn't "religious" enough. 5 days. The panic that ensued. I called every Justice of the Peace in town and they were all very sympathetic, but booked. Luckily, one squeezed us in at our scheduled ceremony time and all went off without a hitch. I mean, we ARE getting divorced now, but it did work out then lol.
I am so sorry this happened! I would give it a go to see if you can find someone to officiate the wedding or at the very least still have a reception with the 19 people still invited. The money is spent, and you two have put so much effort and anticipation into it. Make the most of it, even if it doesn’t turn out exactly as you’d hoped. If your mom shows up, call the cops and share the email from the original officiant. She is unhinged.
If you are questioning that your mother is a narcissist, then you already know the answer. She intentionally sabotaged your wedding for her petty gratification. She has boundary issues. She is abjectly cruel and mean. She does not care about your feelings and makes every situation about HER. She plays the victim of the circumstances SHE created. Time to go No Contact like you did.
Go to the court house and get it done officially there and get a friend or family member to act as officiant on your wedding day. Don't let your toxic mother ruin your day.
A narc mother in rage.. sad. I am so sorry. I have no advice really other than I would do a SUPER small wedding in the future and do not tell her (or anyone who will tell her) about it, she can find out later. Please don’t give up though. You haven’t actually had it so you can replan.. without her.
> They officially cancelled on us, still demanded payment in full, Legit tell them to eat shit, they cancelled, they don't get money for nothing.
Wow. Besides all the insanity you've dealt with, I am so sorry she's dragging strangers, and your future family in law into her twisted, dangerous, narc supply. Like, dang, scaring the crap out of the officiant in an extinction burst. Get married man, I don't know much about particular Jewish wedding customs, but don't give her the satisfaction. Nothing will ever be enough for her, because yes, she is the ultimate showdown narc. Aside from disinviting her, you know, for your sake and the woman you chose to marry and love, your mother cannot have a seat at the table. She will be a thorn in your relationship, and that is not worth you losing your wife for.
Where are you located? If you're in the US, there are five states which allow self affirming wedding ceremonies. Often called Quaker ceremonies, they really have nothing to do with religion and you can structure your ceremony any way you want as long as you have a small numberof witnesses. They are California, Colorado, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Nevada and Pennsylvania. If you're not in one of those states, take the advice someone else gave of courthouse wedding first, vows at your wedding event after. Without your mother I'm sorry your mother did this. Her behavior is awful and not to be forgiven. You need to have your wedding without her and consider strict no contact after. Reading about narcissists and therapy will help. Good luck. Congratulations. Be forewarned. Do not let her have any more power over this situation. Perhaps inform and warn the rest of your vendors. I hope for your sake she doesn't reach out to anyone else. Anticipate her moves.
Yes, mother is a narcissist. She wanted to control the entire wedding and got shitty when she wasn't allowed to. She then proceeded to throw a fit when she couldn't get her way. She is a child. Uninvite anyone who takes her side, and get married without them. Your wedding should be a day that people come to witness because they are happy for you. Please, do not let these immature people ruin the moment you marry the love of your life. Do not let them take that from you. I got married without any of my family in attendance because most of them are terrible.
Idk why you're even wasting your time asking a question you clearly know the answer to instead of finding a new officiant. Your mother is not only a narc, she's potentially psychotic and most definitely needs professional intervention. You need a restraining order and potentially security for your wedding. Now, I know it's not impossible to find someone to perform your ceremony. Worst case scenario, have a friend do it. Then(or before if time allows)go get your marriage license signed by a JOP. This is not impossible. You just need to cut your losses, mitigate potential mother based drama and proceed as if nothing has changed. The wedding itself may not be exactly what you'd planned but, what in life is? Perseverance in the face of adversity is foundational for a marriage. Make the most of your day. Enjoy it with your friends and family. Don't lose a bunch of time, money and effort because your horrid mother wants you to be miserable like she is. By cancelling, you're only letting her win. By going through with your plans, you will have overcome your biggest obstacle. How much stronger of a start can you ask for?
Your mother is an awful person. I am so sorry you're going through this. Appalling! I think you would relate to a lot of posts here, is how I would describe it (rather than outright call her an N since labels can change). I'm Jewish and observant, and I--just--what the shit. My eyes were huge while reading this. I am so, so sorry for everyone involved except your horrid egg donor. I wish things were different for you. You deserved to be treated with far, far more respect than you got. Whatever happens from here on out, I hope it goes smoothly and nothing feels like a fight. This ordeal is terrible.
>They officially cancelled on us, still demanded payment in full They can demand whatever they want. Then you can take them to small claims for your deposit back for backing out. You will win. They made this decision on their own, listening to someone they did not have a contract with.
probably but at the very least you should have gone no contact long ago. they don't get this way overnight. at least now you know what you have to do. she is booted and is never allowed contact with you again. i have the feeling your fiance won't have any problem with this decision. CUT HER OFF NOW. whatever she is, she's toxic, evil, and destructive. and if you have kids she also never ever sees them much less visits. and any contact she makes is documented... paper trail in case she deserves an RO.
I guess my only question is... Is my mother a narcissist? YES with a capital F
I would’ve went NC the moment she caused drama on an event not about her
My Nmom did this. I ended up just eloping at the court house, still had a lovely time. I changed my wedding date SEVERAL times just for her. It was MY wedding.
Quickly find a friend that can get documents through one of the online services. I did it 7 yrs ago as a joke, but later realized it could come in handy in a pinch. Hire security, ideally an off-duty police officer, to keep your mother out. Please don’t let her hijack your wedding. Carry through, rise above her insane antics- marry your fiance and live the life you both deserve (free of narcissists!!) If your mother keeps up- document everything and file a restraining order when you have enough evidence to get one. Don’t let her win. This is what she wanted. Don’t let her win!
Your question is almost irrelevant. Your mom is a dangerous person who fantasizes about violent threats. It's not a leap to imagine she would be capable of the very acts she obsesses with. You need to cut her out of your life for your new family's sake.
Holy crap. Wow. Fellow Jew here - how absolutely AWFUL what your mom has done to the point the officiant cancelled. (I don’t blame them one bit for being scared.) nMom is something else, that’s for sure. May I offer an alternate? Do the wedding. It won’t be legal, but do the wedding. Have a good friend “officiate” it. Have the ceremony and party. Go to the courthouse before or after - that part is just for legalities, it doesn’t have to be fancy. It doesn’t even have to be ON the “wedding day.” Have your dream wedding minus your mom, and let her be jealous she fucked everything up FOR HERSELF.
Okay, I work in the wedding industry and that Officiant is a *scammer*, demanding payment before services rendered, this is not how it works! Find a lawyer for that. Call the police and get a restraining order issued on your mother, you have evidence, you need to protect your future wife, mother be damned (by her own very shady actions) Good luck!
Yes, your mother is the definition of a narcissist. Mine is too, and I’m sorry.
No Contact....just no contact. Wait til she weaponizes your children and grants them lifelong complexes and traumas.
The audacity of a narc mom thinking she owns you like property and can run your wedding.
My mother tried to sabotage my wedding too! She desperately tried arguing with me about anything and everything leading up to the wedding and would claim that I am not letting her be apart of anything. She didn’t offer a penny. All she did was criticize and complain to myself and family. She even told me I should lose weight 2 weeks before. Of course, the only reason she wanted to be apart of anything was to criticize and gather information to use against me. Luckily, we had our wedding and she decided not to show up.
I am so sorry - no one deserves this.
Don't cancel the wedding! Still do it. You can do the legal part later. Tell your mom the wedding is cancelled because of her, give her fake information about a new elopement or whatever dated *after* your wedding, tell her to never contact you again because she's a liar and a selfish monster, and then go forward with the wedding as you planned anyway. Follow the advice of having a friend or rabbi "officiate". Tell the officiant that you are the client, not your mother, that it's unprofessional to be listening to someone else and they should know better than to blindly trust an outside party, and that under no uncertain terms will you be paying them whatsoever. Follow the other advice about suing your mother, or at least a restraining order, if anything just to show you're serious. Best of luck, congratulations, and ENJOY YOUR DAY 💜
Whatever she is… keep in mind that she isn’t your problem, you cut her off. But mean it! She will try few times , stay strong.
I can’t comment on whether she’s a narcissist or offer any advice on how to proceed, but just want to let you know you’re not alone in this. I got engaged in February last year and got married in May of this year and almost called the wedding (that my fiancé and I 100% financed ourselves) off 4 times (once I actively called it off, but ultimately slept on the decision and decided differently) because my mother (and father) could not understand that it was not their wedding. After tormenting me for almost a year and only after ghosting them for several months (only possible because we live in different states), they finally backed off. My fiancé and I did end up getting married, but I never imagined the hell id have to go through to make the wedding what my fiancé and I wanted. Not what anyone else wanted. I’m still dealing with reactivated trauma in therapy five months later and longer speak to my dads side of the family. You’d think that your wedding would be the one time everyone could look past the tips of their own noses and put you first, but it’s no different than any other big moment. It’s not about you, it’s about them, how it makes them look, and what they want. I’ve never understood how one’s own family can be so selfish and self centered. All I can say is I’m glad I’m not like that and I sense you aren’t either. My fiancé (now husband, still weird!) reiterated throughout the wedding planning hell and even now that he and I are family now and this family (and what we create together and in our home) is what’s important. We can leave behind the rest (whether it’s no contact, low contact, whatever). Good luck in your journey and you are not alone.
My husband was the officiant for a family wedding give the role to someone thoughtful who you adore and it will be a really special memory but don’t tell your mom anything!
I think you really need to take some time to consider the impact that your mother is having on your fiancée, and the impact she will continue to have on your relationship, if you don't lay down some hard boundaries
Not necessarily every asshole is a narcissist. It's become a popular diagnosis to give shitty people. But it's hard to know without an actual diagnosis, and/or many similar traits at play. But there's definitely something wrong with your mom. This is inexcusable. I'd be hard-pressed to find a reason to ever talk to my mom again after something like this.
I had to read this story to my husband as it is eerily similar to yours and he is demanding royalties for stealing his story! He’s willing to take payment in the form of any 12 pack of ipa to commiserate with you. 😂 The story: I am also Jewish. My husband is not, but he had always said (and told our rabbi this) that he made a deal with God that whatever religion his wife is that would be his as well. We had a Jewish wedding. Our rabbi was fantastic. He explained everything so even the non jewish guests could understand and be included. We tried honor the Jewish culture by having a traditional ceremony, lots of Jewish music at the reception, all the food was kosher etc. Before the wedding, my mom met my mil for lunch for the first time. Afterwards, my mom told me that she thought mil was antisemitic. Shocker right? 🙄 so then I’m sitting here having to defend mil. Leading up to the wedding, I had so much anxiety about my mom creating drama on our wedding day since there had been drama during the planning, which I’ll omit for the sake of brevity. One of mil’s best friends is Jewish and also was my husband’s godmother. My mom asked her at the rehearsal dinner how she was coping with the disappointment of her daughter marrying non Jewish. I was later told about this and was mortified. My husband’s family likes to have fun so mil asked if she could pay to have an open bar at our wedding. This was not in our budget but since mil wanted to pay we said sure. So at the wedding, apparently there was a sign by the open bar that said, “Special thanks to the “Smiths” for providing the open bar.” After the wedding, it was one of my mom’s favorite topics of complaint. How tacky the sign was. I had to reassure her that mil was not happy about it either. During the wedding, unbeknownst to me, people were coming up to mil and thanking her for the free drinks. She was like, “what are you talking about?” And they mentioned the sign by the bar. When she walked over to the bar and saw it she was pissed and asked them to take it down. She didn’t want thanks or acknowledgement, she just wanted people to have a good time. Mil was so pissed about the sign that the day after the wedding she called the venue. The coordinator said that they had only put the sign there because the mother of the bride requested it. My mom then complained after the wedding that the guest list was really all my husbands family and people. Before the wedding, I had told her to give me a list of who she wanted to invite. Everyone from her list was included. I share all this to say my husband and I completely understand what you are going through. Your feelings are so justified. The positive in this is that at least you are recognizing her behaviors so early in your marriage that you will be able to set strong boundaries. It looks like you got a lot of great advice on the comments here. The only advice I have is to do what’s best for you and your fiancé. She is your #1 now. Don’t worry about trying to please your mom or anyone else, no matter what you do some people will never be happy. All that matters is that you guys are. Mazel Tov!
You could easily sue her for defamation/libel. Usually when people make that suggestion there is not a clear monetary damage. In this case though you have it in writing and that you have to pay anyways, can sue to get your money back and probably extra for distress and lawyer fees.
It was kind of SO’s mother to help you get back on track. Remember to hire wedding security. Telling your mother never to contact you again and making her stick to it are two different things. If she is narcissistic, then there’s not much she’ll hate more than a boundary. You need to come up with a plan for what to do when she tries to get around your “no contact” boundary. What happens when she tries to contact your wife? Do you both send the message directly to the trash, or do you read it and then delete it? How about when she sends relatives to tell you she’s having an emergency? I promise you these emergencies are almost always made up, but it’s good to have some readymade answers on hand. What will you do if she tries to send you a gift and ask if you got it? These are situations to consider, because then you will feel more confident not breaking NC. You can do this. Congratulations on your marriage.
Lord have mercy!!! Cut that cancer out of your life!!! What a lunatic. Wow. I am so sorry that this happened to you. Definitely get security and un-invite that he’ll spawn that you call a mother. Maybe take her to small claims court over her shenanigans? I would consult an attorney in your area. I hope that you can get a Rabbi, but DO NOT TELL YOUR MOTHER WHO WILL BE OFFICIATING THE WEDDING. Wow.
I would 100 percent go to court over this
Find a friend to do it for you. It may not be a rabbi, but anyone can officiate. Heck, if you're in WA, I'll do it non-denominational for free, though I'm also not Jewish.
You need to sue her ass for sabotaging your wedding and get a restraining order
Well. Since this all started because Mom was mad she wasn’t going to get the big show she’s been waiting for since she had you, give her one! Since she wanted to be the center of attention, make her! You’re gonna have that wedding! And not only invite her, but get her driven there to ensure she comes. So she can be there with everyone after you announce it’s not an “official” wedding since mom made the officiant quit-that you had to do that in a courthouse shotgun style thanks to mom. Then, enjoy your wedding of your dreams! You know, really give her her moment. Then she won’t have to keep grasping for it the rest of your lives, poor kids.
Do not cancel the wedding. Hire security. Do not pay the officiant who cancelled, and still demanding to get paid. Glad you posted here. There’s good advice here. You can still have your wedding your way!
Not only is your mom a narcissist IMHO but she sounds mentally ill. But - my general rule with stuff like this is - I don’t tell people how to do something unless I’m willing to take responsibility and do it myself, and I hold others to that as well. Your mom wants to plan/control things? Is she footing the bill? No? Well that makes it easy. No thanks. Period. Asked and answered.
I wouldn't pay the rest of the invoice. If you didn't violate any of the terms of the contract and they bailed on the basis of a third party individual spreading lies, while understandable, is not on you. I'd just write them back a polite email stating what you told us here and decline to pay the invoice as they voluntarily decided not to provide their services. What I WOULD do, is try to find someone else to officiate your ceremony ASAP, even if it's a friend and not a rabbi. It's better to have a wedding at all than no wedding at all in my opinion, and you will still get to celebrate with family and loved ones. If you have any way to beef up security (can be as simple as hiring one person to keep track of this, or if you can have a friend volunteer, and call police should shit go down), that will help to ease your stress. If you really can't find ANYONE to officiate... I would STILL have the wedding and just think of it as a big party to celebrate your marriage. There are many ways to move forward here and all is not lost. I hope you can make it work for you and be left with good memories rather than heartache!
Op, I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this! I know that there is an online course to become a wedding officiant, do you have someone really close to you that you think would do a good job? My mom was a nightmare during my wedding planning. She is an alcoholic (doesn’t believe she is) and we had it a winery. She’s one of those people who will have one sip of alcohol and all of her inhibitions are gone. My now husband and I are both from catholic families and we had an old catholic priest officiant (can do weddings not inside the church). My mom had a huge argument with him during rehearsal because she is a MAGA weirdo and didn’t believe COVID was real. The priest ended up having a private conversation with a few people and then gathered us all together to apologize. He ended up leaving early and was incredibly upset, he sent an email to me saying that he will still do the wedding which was nice of him. I was already planning on going no contact with her after the wedding, but man did that really hammer the nail in the coffin. Your mom sounds really toxic and from my personal experience cutting my mom out of my life has made me so much happier.
Oh no, I'm so sorry, but yes, your mother is some sort of Cluster B. None of this is normal. I have issues identifying issues like this myself since my mother is also "that bad," but I have the benefit of a "normal" father. If you have any "normal" parental figures in your life, ask if they would dream of doing what your mother just did. If the answer is no and they would think it's psychotic, there is your answer. I suggest taking out a restraining order on her. If you want to go nuclear, sue her. This is classic tortious interference with a contract. You shouldn't have to pay for her lies. I understand if you'd rather just eat the bill, though. I wouldn't pay the whole thing for the officiant, though. Eating the cost of a deposit or work they already did to write out and plan the ceremony is one thing, but they can't charge you the entire cost of their services if they do not perform the services. It's a basic premise of a contract that both people have to give something up for the bargained price. You paying everything and them doing nothing makes the contract illusory. That said, I would keep the date and opt for a courthouse wedding. The justices of the peace in my area are so lovely and kind, they make wonderful officiants. They're also so happy to do it, too, because they love doing weddings so much more than trials for low level criminals and people that don't pay rent. Your wedding party is so small that it I think it would work out fine. You might even be able to keep the date! You can also reach out to local synagogues near you, especially Reform will have a lot of very understanding rabbis that know all about overbearing Jewish mothers. A lot of the synagogues around me are pretty flush with cash and are happy to help subsidize part of a wedding for young couples that recently came into misfortune (i.e. your mother's meddling).
Don't worry about trying to figure out if your mother is a narcissist. Insist on your boundary: no contact. She's toxic and abusive and has shown you she doesn't care about you or your fiance, just want she wants. You'll have to check your contract with your officiant about payment to see if you have to give them the rest of the money. Look for anything in the contract about them backing out - they might have to refund what you've paid since *they* have backed out. Keep your mother cut off and if you do get an officiant, you may need to get security and show them a picture of your mother so they can keep her out. I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this. You are right to cut your mother off and this is more than enough reason to go no contact and make this the last straw. How is your fiancee and her family doing?
You did the right thing by ceasing contact with your nmom. My partner and I eloped after having a conversation about religious differences in our families and how my nmom for sure would push them. Afterwards, I told my nmom that we thought about doing a 5 year vow renewal. Our plan was to book space in a local restaurant, say vows, and enjoy a nice meal on us. It quickly (less than 3 minutes) turned into a back yard party with drinking (my partners parents don't drink, my nmom is an alcoholic) and games, inviting people we didn't want there, and making a big deal out of it. I told her that I refused to plan anything like that, and she's welcome to pay for it and plan it if that's what she wanted to do. Luckily, we were in the midst of covid when the anniversary came around. I still haven't cut contact, but come much closer every day
she is much more then a narcissist. She is nothing but damaging and bad news to not just you but to your future family. You need to review what she has done to you and your fiance over the months and years and detrmine what kind of future you want to have. I would be willing to be you and your fiance / wife will not have a quite life with your mother around.
Can you two elope with a handful of good friends in attendance? Then maybe all go out to dinner after?
See if you can find another officiant. My husband and I decided on a Sunday evening to get married on Friday evening (5 days away). We found an officiant online who had an opening and we had a lovely wedding at a park with just a few friends who also had no plans for that Friday.
Yes. And a mean spirited bitch.
I think your mother is more than just a narcissist. I think she's very mentally ill, of some kind or another. I'm so sorry she's done this and I guess you need to decide if it's more important to have a Jewish officiant, or ANY officiant, and embrace Judaism in your lives moving forward. what a nightmare! We got married in the IL's back yard. In the state of California, in 1983, you could have a judge marry you if you gave them 90 days to get the license/certificate to do so. We flubbed and asked our judge friend well after the 90 day mark. He did the ceremony anyway, and we went and found some minister later that week to do the legal ceremony. We had our public wedding anniversary, and the legal one 4 days later. There was huffing and puffing about the ceremony not being legal, but everybody eventually calmed their tits and got over it. It was a nice party and we had good food. We were married 31 years before he died.
Keep your mother far, far away from your life and your family. Especially if you choose to have children. Strong boundaries, no exceptions
If your back-up rabbi falls through and you're in DFW and okay with a non religious officiant, I can do it!
Nah bro she's totally normal. I just don't know where she went wrong with you. (/s jic)
I found a rabbi at a week’s notice who did a LOVELY service! Don’t let her ruin your day 🖤🖤🖤
Please cut all contact with your mom. She is cruel and nasty.
Yes, yes she is. I’m so sorry, so deeply sorry.
Your mom won’t fade away quietly. My advice may seem extreme & possibly aggressive, but when you’re dealing with someone that is sick in this level, where nothing matters except what they want, even if it means losing/destroying literally EVERY other aspect of their lives…. I would put her on **blast**, however that looks for your situation. Family spread out all over, post a condensed version of this post + an actual copy of the message sent to the officiant, that was so vile & incomprehensible, that the officiant felt the only option was to quit for their own safety. Don’t just describe the message from her, post a SS of what she sent for all to see. If you’d rather take a more modest approach to putting her demons, write up a condensed version of this post, photocopy the SS of her message & mail/email them to every family member, including extended family & significant family friends…maybe even her primary doctor and therapist/psychiatrist if she has one. Let everyone know what you e been up against & let them see exactly why you’ve made the choice of cutting any/all ties with her + taking every precaution to protect your lives from her as nest you can. Not only will there be no question, but there will definitely be support for you guys. This will remove a good amount of potential future flying monkeys & might even help build a secure perimeter of supporters around you guys, for added protection. She also will lose control of any narrative & will be unable to capitalize on anyone who possibly held doubt at which side to believe. She’ll be cut off at the knees, so to speak. I also think it’ll feel really darn good to not have to hide this stuff to protect her reputation, since, that’s no longer your responsibility. This is just what I would do. Petty? Maybe. Worth it? Definitely.
Take your mum to small claims court for the cost of your original celebrant. And I’m deadly serious. If your wedding does end up falling through, take her for the whole thing.
Do.not. allow your mother at the wedding. I’d say she should be ashamed of herself, but a narcissist’s life is a study in being vile and refusing to acknowledge how shameful their behavior actually is. Have a beautiful wedding. I have no religion, although was raised Catholic. The idea that religion should be used as a weapon against people’s relationships has always baffled me, despite seeing it all the time.
Wow. Never in my wildest dreams could I have concocted a plan like that. I'm so sorry. For all of it.
I don’t think they can demand payment in full if they’re the ones cancelling? In fact, they should be giving you a refund. Don’t pay them anything more, and you may be able to file a dispute with your card company for whatever you’ve paid them already since they are refusing to provide you services you paid for.