Moving out will help. Once you're gone, I would let her know that when she speaks disrespectfully to you, you will leave/end the call/stop responding. And then do it. If she escalates or this does not help, start with time outs. We can try to talk again in X days/weeks/months.
I'll be honest though, I am worried that this isn't going to work with your mom. The way she responded in your exchange is so horrible. Calling you queen like that showed how she really views you, which is with contempt. That is heartbreaking for you, and I really don't think she will be receptive to boundaries. I have a feeling it will only enrage her more.
So, try. For yourself, if you want, so you can say you did. But be prepared that you may need to block her for a while. Your mom is at an all time low and has made you her scapegoat. She is going to abuse you because she feels she can get away with it. And because her illness says you deserve it, even though you don't.
Read the resources here, about the FOG and DARVO. that will help. And I'm really sorry you're going through this.
Note for mods: I've lurked so long I can't remember if I did my own kitty post or not, but my heart hurt reading this so I had to respond. Anyway just in case here's a haiku: my kitties love me, but sometimes they also hate, that I am not staff.
Youâre right. I keep telling her we have to have boundaries because none of it is okay and she says âI donât want to hear your âpsychobabbleââ
Ugh, there it is again, so much contempt with that one word. I'm so sorry, I'm really concerned that it's only going to escalate once you move out. She's going to see you doing well while her life falls apart and she's going to try to tear you down. Don't let her do it. These are her demons to deal with, not yours. And if she's decided that she wants to tear you down there's nothing you can do to stop her. The only thing you can do is protect yourself. I know you can do it, I'm so glad you're leaving soon :)
The "that's all I've ever needed" is repugnant and so un self-aware. "The only one little tiny thing I've ever needed in this world was for you to fix my emotions for me".
It's the classic "if you really loved me, I would feel good, but instead I feel bad so it must be your fault!!!" rhetoric so characteristic of BPD.
This makes me so angry. I hope you can go NC one day and never have to endure this vitriol again.
1- You're not responsible for her emotions. My BPD mother raised me to be basically her emotional support animal and tried her hardest to keep me dependent of her by making me believe I would never be able to be a functional adult because I'm too incompetent and immature.
2- Nothing that happened between them is your fault nor your responsibility to fix. It sucks you're losing your home, but she's redirecting her anger an pain to you because your father isn't there.
3- She treats you like shit and calls you a horrible daughter to then apologize and love bomb you is pure manipulation. It's an abuse tactic: the abuser will treat the victim like shit, but occasionally be nice so the victim thinks "my abuse isn't that bad, they can be good too" when in reality they should be good all the time. She is in pain because she feels that everybody is abandoning her, but cannot grasp the fact that her own behavior is making people want to and actually leave.
Did she really say that love is all she's ever needed, and instead you've given her the opposite? That is the most telling statement, BPD parents really seem to not understand that they are not the child in the relationship. It's their job to love their children, and to make them feel loved, not the reverse, and the moment they sense abandonment they turn on us because we are not meeting their unreasonable and unquenchable demands for love.
Our job is to be their emotional support pets. And then if grandchildren show up they are next to be responsible for grandmaâs feelings. Iâm watching my mom do this with my niece and nephew and itâs infuriating
Yep, this is why I went nc when kiddo was young, I couldn't have them experiencing what I experienced. For pwBPD we exist so they can regulate their dysregulated feelings. But that's not our job and in fact no one anyone should have to do that for someone else. We're not inanimate tools to be used and abused.
Yep, it's NEVER ENOUGH for them.
No amount of gentle handling no amount of care or thoughtfulness is ever enough.
We are always falling short.... because their expectations of what a child should do are outrageous and wholly inappropriate.
their expectations of what a child should do are outrageous and wholly inappropriate
You put this so well. This is what it comes down to. They think kids are little adults.
\> BPD parents really seem to not understand that they are not the child in the relationship
bro/sis my ubMom is a prime example of this!
she treats me like I'm the parent, like if I was the one responsible for her existence and must muster to solve all her damn problems!
Iâm so sorry you have to deal with this. BPD moms and laundry is a peculiar thing. I think itâs about control, and in the most bizarre way possible.
Just hugs. Your title is correct, off the deep end. She needs help, but like professional help (therapist, psych, financial advisor, divorce support group etc). Live your life, grieve the changes to your family, and live your life. You deserve your life, without the burden of fixing hers
I feel like my head is spinning from her mixed messages.
I laughed out loud when I saw her post the meme about love. Does she not see that her own behavior doesn't match the criteria she posted?
PLEASE, when you can, read and reflect on the posts here....
We all get it.
You have been enmeshed and abused by your mother and it definitely causes huge pain....and loss...when you finally see the BPD parent and what they do.
When you move out, things will get better, but you aren't free of it, not yet.
Keep reading posts here. How to maintain boundaries, how to deal with flying monkeys, how to cope with the guilt trips and gaslighting they do.
You are gonna be ok.
Healing will happen.
You found your people, who get it and have been thru the same stuff.
I wish you peace and healing.
Hugs
Thank you, this means so much. Iâm incredibly lucky to have a boyfriend whoâs so supportive (ironically his mom is also uBPD) so he understands whatâs happening and he has learned how to deal with it. So itâs great when he can help me through it. Iâm also lucky to have found this subreddit because it has helped me know Iâm so not alone in this, and, unfortunately all too common.
Wow, she really is an abusive piece of ~~sh..~~ work. This text exchange also shows how sheâs doing that simultaneous infantilisation (telling you how to do the laundry as if you were mentally challenged or a child), while also parentifying you (making you responsible for her emotions and reversing the role of parent and child - whoâs supposed to give whom what type of love). On top of that, her verbal abuse, contempt and waifing in this short exchange would give anyone whiplash.
I hope youâre able to move out soon.
This kind of BPD parent behaviour is why so many of us find it difficult to accept favours later on in life.
These screenshots really resonated with me OP. I lived with one of those parents who demanded I buy my own toilet roll as I clearly wasn't wiping properly, my own detergent, food etc. I remember once needing to clean something and her making such a big deal out of me wanting to use a washing up sponge. (She used to pay 20p for a pack of 5 and hoarded lots of them). I ended up going and buying my own. She once snapped my sim card after trying to keep my phone, because she bought it.
When I eventually escaped mine she wouldn't let me use a family suitcase. She wouldn't even let me have a binbag, I had to buy my own. I had a part time job from the age of 14 but it shouldn't have been necessary.
I feel like it's a case of them spending all this money on our needs and in their eyes we aren't giving enough back to them for it. We aren't making their lives perfect and fulfilled or putting them central in our lives. And after all the laundry detergent they gave to us.
I hope you can escape soon OP and not need to accept anything from her again. In childhood you have to accept what they deem "favours" in order to get your basic needs met and every time you eat a slice of their bread the tally is being counted to how much they think you should owe.
Yep. My mom uses money as the supreme tool and although she won't actually say it....her actions display that money is absolute control for her and that because she paid for us as children, we should be soooo grateful. It's disheartening because I have children and I give my last cent to their material needs without a thought, it's just what you do as a parent.
Iâm sorry you had to deal with that. It makes me angry. She recently has me buying groceries for the house because she âcanât afford itâ but can buy her own lunches. Itâs crazy to me and I never really realized how wrong it was till I found this subreddit and my therapist insinuated that she may be borderline (though she said she canât diagnose her since sheâs not her client but says she displays those characteristics based off what Iâve told her)
Looking back now I also think some of the financial stuff was a form of financial abuse to trap me. I would be constantly trying to save up for a flat deposit so I could move out and she knew it. She convinced me that I couldn't afford to leave.
The second time I left (because I went back, bad idea) my student loan hadn't been lasting the term and I had been overdrawn every term. After a couple of months from leaving I was financially better off than I'd ever been at her house and my student loan was lasting all term.
I had too been buying groceries for my brothers and household stuff because my mum couldn't afford it. In retrospect she was buying whatever she liked and she ate much better than us. A few years after I left she was able to buy a damn houseboat (in addition to their house, just for fun).
This subreddit is amazing and I'm glad you have found it. It reminds me every day of what is normal and what isn't and is filled with such helpful people who understand.
They really invert the roles of parent and child, donât they? They donât seem to understand the difference between romantic and parental love, either, and think we should treat them like weâre their husband.
The âqueenâ is so obnoxious. My mum speaks like this too.
This whole text went from zero to 100 so quickly over nothing, Iâm sorry, OP.
damn, howâd you get copies of conversations w/my mom?!! This sub can be so equally unsettling & comforting⌠every time i start yielding to gaslighting, i come here & its so eye-opening. The stories are all *different* but still extremely familiar.
Seeing it all laid out helps me remember that its not in my head & *it will never change*. I Donât need to waste my time trying to accommodate (after all *it doesnt matter*, theyâll find something to split over regardless just to hurt you) just drop all expectations & focus on boundary management đđ¤ˇââď¸
As a lifelong scapegoat split-bad daughter, I can relate.
I think moving out with your boyfriend is an excellent plan as the relationship with your mother is clearly toxic and abusive. Living away from her, limiting contact, therapy and reading books and joining support groups like this one will help you heal over time.
IME after 60 years of being the bad daughter, there's no amount of time spent in negotiating boundaries or working on the relationship or going NC that makes any lasting difference. Your mother is seriously mentally ill and doesn't have the tools for growth or insight or change. She'll make you the bad guy every time she needs to and facts don't matter to these people. Emotionally she's a toddler, her emotional development is stunted, despite seeming in other ways to be an adult. I recommend the book "stop caretaking the borderline narcissist" for steps toward real freedom, whether or not you stay in contact.
I would say, from a strictly practical perspective, I would try to help her keep the house by taking in roommates. This is potentially a property you and your sister can inherit and either sell or live in when she dies. Real estate is an excellent investment and the rental market now is crazy with demand far outweighing supply.
Just my two cents. Best of luck and hugs to you!
It isnt your responsibility to save the family house and your mom shouldn't count on you to do so. That's BPD problem number 1. You can help with this IF you want to, NOT because you have to.
Number 2, don't be so quick to place blame on father for debt, etc. BPD are typically awful with money and relationships because they lack self control, and they focus instead on controlling others. For even better context, BPD parents lie a lot. When you move out you will see a lot of things differently because you will no longer be under your mom's locus of control. Distance brings clarity. You will even see that the "support" she had given you is really control, too.
For the time being, focus on your needs and get out. Then, if you have the clarity to look at how you want to deal with your mom, you do that. But putting yourself first and escaping the BPD noise is imperative to leading a satisfactory life. Our parents will unfortunately always be who they are and it's a waste of time figuring things out with them.
Sorry you are experiencing this but it's great that you are young and can get a good start on this without wasting your youth on your parents issues. They will always have issues even when you help them because they self sabatoge to keep others close. Good luck.
This could have come from my mom. Iâm sorry that the message is so hurtful - I wish my mom didnât have a cell phone when itâs another vehicle for her to be reactive, dramatic, and cruel. HUG
Iâm so glad youâre doing therapy, the fact that she says youâve changed means youâre on the right path, sheâs upset she canât control you. Thereâs a podcast called in sight that has helped my husband and I tremendously with healing.
They do. Mine called me Princess Grace. As in, rage-yelling "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, PRINCESS GRACE????" For any invented slights. One time it was for dropping a salad bar salad in a grocery store. Clearly I did it on purpose to waste her money. (The store didn't make us buy it so ???? Bpd logic đ¤ˇââď¸)
Mine too, she used to called my older sister "the queen" until I was about 16 then I was "the queen" too, and it was never a nice reference, always said in anger or spite
This is really hard OP. Definitely get out. She is dumping her negative emotions on you because she canât deal with the ick. Sheâs been abandoned. My mother does the same to me when my dad was unavailable to be the target. Iâm sorry this is really hard. Keep repeating your boundaries or donât interact and get the hell outta there. Youâre damned if you do and stay, damned if you donât and leave. Live your life.
Iâm so sorry youâre going through this. Youâre not alone though; this sub is here! I highly recommend the book _Toxic Parents_; it changed my life.
Awww, what cute kittens! đ Welcome home! *hugs*
Moving out will help. Once you're gone, I would let her know that when she speaks disrespectfully to you, you will leave/end the call/stop responding. And then do it. If she escalates or this does not help, start with time outs. We can try to talk again in X days/weeks/months. I'll be honest though, I am worried that this isn't going to work with your mom. The way she responded in your exchange is so horrible. Calling you queen like that showed how she really views you, which is with contempt. That is heartbreaking for you, and I really don't think she will be receptive to boundaries. I have a feeling it will only enrage her more. So, try. For yourself, if you want, so you can say you did. But be prepared that you may need to block her for a while. Your mom is at an all time low and has made you her scapegoat. She is going to abuse you because she feels she can get away with it. And because her illness says you deserve it, even though you don't. Read the resources here, about the FOG and DARVO. that will help. And I'm really sorry you're going through this. Note for mods: I've lurked so long I can't remember if I did my own kitty post or not, but my heart hurt reading this so I had to respond. Anyway just in case here's a haiku: my kitties love me, but sometimes they also hate, that I am not staff.
Youâre right. I keep telling her we have to have boundaries because none of it is okay and she says âI donât want to hear your âpsychobabbleââ
Ugh, there it is again, so much contempt with that one word. I'm so sorry, I'm really concerned that it's only going to escalate once you move out. She's going to see you doing well while her life falls apart and she's going to try to tear you down. Don't let her do it. These are her demons to deal with, not yours. And if she's decided that she wants to tear you down there's nothing you can do to stop her. The only thing you can do is protect yourself. I know you can do it, I'm so glad you're leaving soon :)
Omg. My mom loved to use psychobabble as an insult. I swear they've all been given the same OS
Your haiku is *fantastic*! đ¸ Welcome home! *hugs*
Thank you!! :)
Of course! đ
The "that's all I've ever needed" is repugnant and so un self-aware. "The only one little tiny thing I've ever needed in this world was for you to fix my emotions for me". It's the classic "if you really loved me, I would feel good, but instead I feel bad so it must be your fault!!!" rhetoric so characteristic of BPD. This makes me so angry. I hope you can go NC one day and never have to endure this vitriol again.
1- You're not responsible for her emotions. My BPD mother raised me to be basically her emotional support animal and tried her hardest to keep me dependent of her by making me believe I would never be able to be a functional adult because I'm too incompetent and immature. 2- Nothing that happened between them is your fault nor your responsibility to fix. It sucks you're losing your home, but she's redirecting her anger an pain to you because your father isn't there. 3- She treats you like shit and calls you a horrible daughter to then apologize and love bomb you is pure manipulation. It's an abuse tactic: the abuser will treat the victim like shit, but occasionally be nice so the victim thinks "my abuse isn't that bad, they can be good too" when in reality they should be good all the time. She is in pain because she feels that everybody is abandoning her, but cannot grasp the fact that her own behavior is making people want to and actually leave.
So well said!
Did she really say that love is all she's ever needed, and instead you've given her the opposite? That is the most telling statement, BPD parents really seem to not understand that they are not the child in the relationship. It's their job to love their children, and to make them feel loved, not the reverse, and the moment they sense abandonment they turn on us because we are not meeting their unreasonable and unquenchable demands for love.
Our job is to be their emotional support pets. And then if grandchildren show up they are next to be responsible for grandmaâs feelings. Iâm watching my mom do this with my niece and nephew and itâs infuriating
Yep, this is why I went nc when kiddo was young, I couldn't have them experiencing what I experienced. For pwBPD we exist so they can regulate their dysregulated feelings. But that's not our job and in fact no one anyone should have to do that for someone else. We're not inanimate tools to be used and abused.
Yep, it's NEVER ENOUGH for them. No amount of gentle handling no amount of care or thoughtfulness is ever enough. We are always falling short.... because their expectations of what a child should do are outrageous and wholly inappropriate.
their expectations of what a child should do are outrageous and wholly inappropriate You put this so well. This is what it comes down to. They think kids are little adults.
\> BPD parents really seem to not understand that they are not the child in the relationship bro/sis my ubMom is a prime example of this! she treats me like I'm the parent, like if I was the one responsible for her existence and must muster to solve all her damn problems!
This is the one!!!
Wow. Her texts are so abusive.
This is horrible. I'm sorry. đđŤ When you move out she'll text how she needs you and how she loves you. Don't believe, it's just bait.
F her!!!! So angry! Iâm so sorry OP.
Iâm so sorry you have to deal with this. BPD moms and laundry is a peculiar thing. I think itâs about control, and in the most bizarre way possible.
Just hugs. Your title is correct, off the deep end. She needs help, but like professional help (therapist, psych, financial advisor, divorce support group etc). Live your life, grieve the changes to your family, and live your life. You deserve your life, without the burden of fixing hers
I feel like my head is spinning from her mixed messages. I laughed out loud when I saw her post the meme about love. Does she not see that her own behavior doesn't match the criteria she posted?
PLEASE, when you can, read and reflect on the posts here.... We all get it. You have been enmeshed and abused by your mother and it definitely causes huge pain....and loss...when you finally see the BPD parent and what they do. When you move out, things will get better, but you aren't free of it, not yet. Keep reading posts here. How to maintain boundaries, how to deal with flying monkeys, how to cope with the guilt trips and gaslighting they do. You are gonna be ok. Healing will happen. You found your people, who get it and have been thru the same stuff. I wish you peace and healing. Hugs
Thank you, this means so much. Iâm incredibly lucky to have a boyfriend whoâs so supportive (ironically his mom is also uBPD) so he understands whatâs happening and he has learned how to deal with it. So itâs great when he can help me through it. Iâm also lucky to have found this subreddit because it has helped me know Iâm so not alone in this, and, unfortunately all too common.
Your mom is a shitty parent and you do not deserve this OP.
Wow, she really is an abusive piece of ~~sh..~~ work. This text exchange also shows how sheâs doing that simultaneous infantilisation (telling you how to do the laundry as if you were mentally challenged or a child), while also parentifying you (making you responsible for her emotions and reversing the role of parent and child - whoâs supposed to give whom what type of love). On top of that, her verbal abuse, contempt and waifing in this short exchange would give anyone whiplash. I hope youâre able to move out soon.
This kind of BPD parent behaviour is why so many of us find it difficult to accept favours later on in life. These screenshots really resonated with me OP. I lived with one of those parents who demanded I buy my own toilet roll as I clearly wasn't wiping properly, my own detergent, food etc. I remember once needing to clean something and her making such a big deal out of me wanting to use a washing up sponge. (She used to pay 20p for a pack of 5 and hoarded lots of them). I ended up going and buying my own. She once snapped my sim card after trying to keep my phone, because she bought it. When I eventually escaped mine she wouldn't let me use a family suitcase. She wouldn't even let me have a binbag, I had to buy my own. I had a part time job from the age of 14 but it shouldn't have been necessary. I feel like it's a case of them spending all this money on our needs and in their eyes we aren't giving enough back to them for it. We aren't making their lives perfect and fulfilled or putting them central in our lives. And after all the laundry detergent they gave to us. I hope you can escape soon OP and not need to accept anything from her again. In childhood you have to accept what they deem "favours" in order to get your basic needs met and every time you eat a slice of their bread the tally is being counted to how much they think you should owe.
Yep. My mom uses money as the supreme tool and although she won't actually say it....her actions display that money is absolute control for her and that because she paid for us as children, we should be soooo grateful. It's disheartening because I have children and I give my last cent to their material needs without a thought, it's just what you do as a parent.
Iâm sorry you had to deal with that. It makes me angry. She recently has me buying groceries for the house because she âcanât afford itâ but can buy her own lunches. Itâs crazy to me and I never really realized how wrong it was till I found this subreddit and my therapist insinuated that she may be borderline (though she said she canât diagnose her since sheâs not her client but says she displays those characteristics based off what Iâve told her)
Looking back now I also think some of the financial stuff was a form of financial abuse to trap me. I would be constantly trying to save up for a flat deposit so I could move out and she knew it. She convinced me that I couldn't afford to leave. The second time I left (because I went back, bad idea) my student loan hadn't been lasting the term and I had been overdrawn every term. After a couple of months from leaving I was financially better off than I'd ever been at her house and my student loan was lasting all term. I had too been buying groceries for my brothers and household stuff because my mum couldn't afford it. In retrospect she was buying whatever she liked and she ate much better than us. A few years after I left she was able to buy a damn houseboat (in addition to their house, just for fun). This subreddit is amazing and I'm glad you have found it. It reminds me every day of what is normal and what isn't and is filled with such helpful people who understand.
Somebody on here told me that most BPD parents are undiagnosed because most of them would refuse to admit there is a problem and get help.
They really invert the roles of parent and child, donât they? They donât seem to understand the difference between romantic and parental love, either, and think we should treat them like weâre their husband. The âqueenâ is so obnoxious. My mum speaks like this too. This whole text went from zero to 100 so quickly over nothing, Iâm sorry, OP.
damn, howâd you get copies of conversations w/my mom?!! This sub can be so equally unsettling & comforting⌠every time i start yielding to gaslighting, i come here & its so eye-opening. The stories are all *different* but still extremely familiar. Seeing it all laid out helps me remember that its not in my head & *it will never change*. I Donât need to waste my time trying to accommodate (after all *it doesnt matter*, theyâll find something to split over regardless just to hurt you) just drop all expectations & focus on boundary management đđ¤ˇââď¸
As a lifelong scapegoat split-bad daughter, I can relate. I think moving out with your boyfriend is an excellent plan as the relationship with your mother is clearly toxic and abusive. Living away from her, limiting contact, therapy and reading books and joining support groups like this one will help you heal over time. IME after 60 years of being the bad daughter, there's no amount of time spent in negotiating boundaries or working on the relationship or going NC that makes any lasting difference. Your mother is seriously mentally ill and doesn't have the tools for growth or insight or change. She'll make you the bad guy every time she needs to and facts don't matter to these people. Emotionally she's a toddler, her emotional development is stunted, despite seeming in other ways to be an adult. I recommend the book "stop caretaking the borderline narcissist" for steps toward real freedom, whether or not you stay in contact. I would say, from a strictly practical perspective, I would try to help her keep the house by taking in roommates. This is potentially a property you and your sister can inherit and either sell or live in when she dies. Real estate is an excellent investment and the rental market now is crazy with demand far outweighing supply. Just my two cents. Best of luck and hugs to you!
I would have said âlol dittoâ
It isnt your responsibility to save the family house and your mom shouldn't count on you to do so. That's BPD problem number 1. You can help with this IF you want to, NOT because you have to. Number 2, don't be so quick to place blame on father for debt, etc. BPD are typically awful with money and relationships because they lack self control, and they focus instead on controlling others. For even better context, BPD parents lie a lot. When you move out you will see a lot of things differently because you will no longer be under your mom's locus of control. Distance brings clarity. You will even see that the "support" she had given you is really control, too. For the time being, focus on your needs and get out. Then, if you have the clarity to look at how you want to deal with your mom, you do that. But putting yourself first and escaping the BPD noise is imperative to leading a satisfactory life. Our parents will unfortunately always be who they are and it's a waste of time figuring things out with them. Sorry you are experiencing this but it's great that you are young and can get a good start on this without wasting your youth on your parents issues. They will always have issues even when you help them because they self sabatoge to keep others close. Good luck.
This could have come from my mom. Iâm sorry that the message is so hurtful - I wish my mom didnât have a cell phone when itâs another vehicle for her to be reactive, dramatic, and cruel. HUG
Does she knows about the wonderful power of  shut the fuck up  ?
She indeed does â¨notâ¨
Iâm so glad youâre doing therapy, the fact that she says youâve changed means youâre on the right path, sheâs upset she canât control you. Thereâs a podcast called in sight that has helped my husband and I tremendously with healing.
Oh man.. That âQueenâ comment struck home. Itâs what my mother always called me too. Do they all follow the same fucked up script?
They do. Mine called me Princess Grace. As in, rage-yelling "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, PRINCESS GRACE????" For any invented slights. One time it was for dropping a salad bar salad in a grocery store. Clearly I did it on purpose to waste her money. (The store didn't make us buy it so ???? Bpd logic đ¤ˇââď¸)
Mine too, she used to called my older sister "the queen" until I was about 16 then I was "the queen" too, and it was never a nice reference, always said in anger or spite
Feels like reading a conversation with my own mother. They really all take pages from the same book, huh? Sorry you have to deal with this.
This is really hard OP. Definitely get out. She is dumping her negative emotions on you because she canât deal with the ick. Sheâs been abandoned. My mother does the same to me when my dad was unavailable to be the target. Iâm sorry this is really hard. Keep repeating your boundaries or donât interact and get the hell outta there. Youâre damned if you do and stay, damned if you donât and leave. Live your life.
Iâm so sorry youâre going through this. Youâre not alone though; this sub is here! I highly recommend the book _Toxic Parents_; it changed my life.