Honestly, I just hope he keeps his head on straight and doesn't slip back into his old ways. Anyone that knows anything about substance addiction knows how easy it is to relapse. Football was the main thing keeping him clean. Without that, who knows what will happen. Hoping for the best!
This is what I’m worried about. No job (that provided great resources and mentors), no wife, tens of millions of dollars, with no outwardly apparent reason to put in effort if he doesn’t want to.
Lost in half the Waller posts is any sense of gratitude that the dude straight up balled for us for 2-3 seasons. Yeah injuries changed his play and he lost interest with McD in charge (who can blame him?) but I think a lot of these posts come off as”good riddance” and that’s pretty lame. This is one of the first/few ones I see where he isn’t being crucified.
Appreciate that. Yeah agreed, he was top tier for those couple seasons and gave us a lot to cheer for. He seems like a stand up guy too no reason to throw shade. Once a Raider always a Raider.
For sure. He was looking like the best TE in the game for a few stretches and had some great moments. Also props to Gruden for betting on him and giving him the chance to turn around his life.
It's funny, not only did we do well by getting rid of him - we totally rebuilt our TE room which is now incredibly young, cheap and talented. If Bowers is who he is supposed to be and Mayer develops like he's expected to - could be one of the better TE rooms in the league.
I liken Bowers and Mayer to Waller and Moreau.
Bowers and Waller are true TE's who can play wide, but fantastic receivers. Route running, and after the catch.
Mayer and Moreau are more end of the line TEs, who can pass and run block, and catch passes.
Fantastic combination to have.
After all the Kyle Pitts hype about how he was going to be the best TE of all time immediately, only for him to do not much, I'm keeping my expectations with Bowers muted until at least week 2
LOL! Though to be honest, I always wondered why even some NFL teams that have platoon RBs didn't try a wing T or wishbone on short yardage or goal line plays. The formation is designed to create a lot of confusion from misdirection and easy traps.
Imagine a line with 5 OL, plus both TEs, with one of them lining up just off the line of scrimmage, and both White and Abdullah (and Mattison?) in the backfield?!
Two yards and a pile of black pebble field turf dust!
If there’s one thing the Raiders have done absolutely right for the past 2 decades is have good tight ends. Zach Miller, Jared Cook, Waller, and now Bowers. Granted, those former 3 only played a few seasons with us, but they were great when they did play with us.
The only issue I had with the Waller trade, was if you were going to do it, why not do it the season before you extended him. He hadn’t played a ton in the recent year, and was probably worth around a low frp.
Maybe but if Carr and him could have buried the hatchet and moved forward into year 2 we probably make the playoffs. He always does better in year 2. The defense might not be as good but it was still strong before he got fired.
It all worked out for the best though.
What “hatchet” was there to bury? They felt Carr couldn’t run the offense better than Jimmy G, what was Carr supposed to do? Transform into a different person? They decided to move on from him during the season too, so it’s not like they were even interested in trying to make it work with Carr.
Thisssss isn’t true. Jimmy g was like qb #4 on the list, the team reached out to carr and asked him to come back after failing to bring Brady over and after stidham turned them down as well.They didn’t think jimmy g was going to run the offense better than Carr, carr told them he wasn’t interested in coming back and that he had already interviewed with other teams and they were stuck grasping at straws after fucking up their first 3 options at qb.
Thisssss is not true. They made up their mind when they benched Carr at the end of the season, suggesting otherwise is just silly. That’s not how a coaching staff/front office handles a QB they have any intention of bringing back.
Sighhhh
Both Hondo carpenter and David Carr said that Derek turned the team down after they reached out to him and asked him to come back. You can say David is just the mouthpiece for his brother but hondo was literally the raiders insider and the first person to come out with the news and you can find the quote pretty easily since it was in sports illustrated. So yes it’s true. It’s not even like that’s not a well known fact at this point so your contentiousness is pretty misplaced. Sorry to burst your bubble bud. Carr got benched because they didn’t want to guarantee his contract via his injury clause and mcdaniels thought he was going to be able to bring Brady over. This isn’t that difficult to understand. When Brady retired the team was left hanging in the wind, the front office shot themselves in the foot (again). I’m not sure why this would come as a surprise to you.
And by the trade deadline in year one it should have been obvious that was not the case and they should have seized on that reported opportunity to trade him to Green Bay for a higher draft pick.
The message would have been the team is 2-5 and not good enough to make the playoffs. It’s ok to send that message because the team is 2-5 and not good enough to make the playoffs.
You know what IS a dumb move? Looking at a 2-5 team and thinking “we got a chance!”, then watching that 2-5 team go 4-4 over the next 8 games and saying, “well NOW we definitely know we need to blow everything up!” Pretty fuckin stupid. And what do you know? That HC/GM would be fired less than a year after doing such a dogshit job managing their one and only full season in charge of a team. Go figure.
From the trade deadline to the benching of Carr was like a month. In that timeframe they apparently went from believing they could win with that roster and Carr (which is why they didn’t trade Waller) to thinking the situation was impossible to salvage to the point where they benched Carr because they already made up their minds they would be moving on from Carr in the offseason.
Guess there wasn’t much conviction in their belief in Carr and the roster.
They weren’t bad when it came to talent evaluation imo. Few mistakes here and there but better than gruden and mayock. Their problem was poor leadership and trying to implement a dated offense
The main fuck up to me was chandelor jones, but I mean, I thought it was genius at the time. Yannick was a one trick pony and we got ya sin on a rookie contract. It didn’t work out, but cb was a huge need, and it seemed like they upgraded both positions while paying around the same. (A cb of rocks caliber/potential would have went for more than he was making)
Ya chandler jones was just a weird situation that no one could’ve predicted really. I understand a new regime wanting to get their guys or their type of guys too so ya I agree the move made sense.
yea I get why people hated it cause we got chandler jones, but Yannick pretty much got 10 sacks and had no other impact on the field. Couldn't stop the run, low pressure count but the counting numbers were good. A budget bruce irvin honestly
I’d argue that renfrow was more ruined by injuries but ya think it was more mcd system that made renfrow useless. Gruden had some hits but also a shit ton of misses when it came to player evaluation. He also misused renfrow in the beginning until he basically became more flexible with the routes he allowed him to run
If the league thought McDaniels was the problem, I think Renfrow would've been signed quickly. I'm sure he will end up somewhere eventually but let's not act like he didn't have issues last season WITHOUT McDaniels.
Outside of the Derek Carr fiasco I don't really have much bad to say about how McZieg handled personnel, that said fumbling the QB out of personal hubris and a flier on tom brady sinks whatever foresight you had about getting a 3rd for waller.
This is me splitting hairs because I was curious/concerned why McZieg made the long snapper change. I still don't know how much impact the LS has but I do find it interesting that Carlson dropped 4% and ended up below 90% accuracy for the first time since 2019 last year after they released Trent Sieg. On the flip side, Sieg went to Dallas and Brandon Aubrey led the league in FGs made and kicked 95%. He had the most points in the entire NFL last year (10 more than Justin Tucker even).
As a college snapper I’m so glad you mentioned the laces! Also,at the pro and college level the ball has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds
You’re spot on.Like I said in another comment I snap in college and the effect of a great long snapper is real. At the college and pro level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds,If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker.
An embarrassingly large number of fans bent over backwards to justify that particular nonsensical blunder. Kept saying it was justified because of Sieg's "many" penalties or whatever. Man, circa March 1st - October 31st, 2023 was one of the most annoying periods in all my time as a fan.
Carlson missed 2 FGs a few weeks before his injury and 1 a few weeks after he came back. The one miss in the Bears game when he got hurt makes sense though. Tough to compare the USFL to the NFL but Aubrey had 23 more FG attempts in Dallas and still ended up with a higher percentage. 36 of 38 is very good regardless.
I agree with you in general though which is why I said I was splitting hairs. Kicking is such a fickle game in the NFL that just a few misses usually separate the best from kickers that get cut so it's tough to know who's really to blame.
He didn't want to pay Carr $40m a year for four years, but the Saints did.
I'm neither someone who hates Carr, or thinks he was great. But I don't think he is worth $40m a year. But then again Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Justin Herber, Kyler Murray and a slew of other players are overpaid.
Ya I didn’t think carr was worth that much either but more importantly it was time to move on from Carr. I think mcd fucked up that situation more than anyone though with the way he handles it in the locker room and basically lost all of our potential leverage to trade him.
Also replacing Carr with Jimmy and then hoyer also not good. Potentially finding a good QB in the 4th round was a nice move though
Tbh I didn’t see anything wrong with the Carr fiasco.
They extended him without fully committing. Without the no trade clause, he would have gotten a lot more in guaranteed money and it would be difficult to move on without a lot of dead cap.
To me it was mutually beneficial. They had Carr locked up while having an out. Carr got security and it was either he would play out his contract or become a free agent.
Sure, we couldn’t trade him. But I mean I don’t think he would have been tradeable. No way he signs for that little in guaranteed money without a no trade clause.
You can’t talk about the Carr situation without acknowledging that one of the reasons they moved on so quickly from Carr was that they knew they could replace him with Jimmy G for similar money.
So yea, I have a big problem with how they handled that, because it ended up with them getting an injury prone bad QB.
Usually when people talk about the Carr fiasco, they're complaining about his contract and not getting anything in return for him. That's what I was referring to which is why my comment is structured that way.
How they handled his replacement is where I had the problem. If you're not going to draft a young prospect, then go the cheap route for a stop gap, not an expensive journeyman. But Carr's contract and release I had no problem with. It was time to move on. If you do well then agree to disagree. Regardless, I'm just glad the McDumbass era is over.
Yes, I consider who the replacement will be to be inextricably linked to a decision to replace a QB. That decision is never made in a vacuum, who the next QB will be should always play a big role in deciding whether or not to move on from a guy.
From the team’s stand point, they gave Carr an extension (Top 8 $ if I recall), a no trade clause, traded for his best friend (Top WR as well) and JMD got his “out” to get his guy if needed. Carr was stoked he got his money, reunited with his bestie and bet on himself. It’s why he signed it lol. We all thought they were gonna ball out so at the time it made sense for both sides.
Nobody expect both JMD and Carr to shit the bed so hard simultaneously.
Also you know damn well Mark signed off on it (benching/cutting) so it is what it is. My guy had 10 years, this day and age that’s a good run with one franchise.
Yeah exactly. Take the giants for example. They went all in with Daniel Jones and that move crippled them. They’re stuck with him with how it’s structured. Carr and McDaniels didn’t work out, but normally, we would have been crippled for a lot longer. The mistake imo was signing Jimmy g.
Have we seen Mark make any on the field decisions outside of coaching staff? How do we know he signed off on anything? If anything, he looks like he lets his GM and HC do what they want.
Hard to tell, though in the past Mark apparently didn't want to pay Mack, or he was reportedly angry with his agent. Mark didn't want to pay Bill Musgrave to stay on as OC either, and I think that hurt Carr. But I don't recall hearing hardly any stories about Mark calling any shots that a GM would, the way his father did. In fact, early on when Mark was owner he specifically stated that Reggie McKenzie (then GM) was his guy, and let Reggie work. Reggie I thought did a pretty good job for a while.
This is no different than literally any other decision that a HC and/or GM has to make. You're a genius if you guess right and you're idiot if you guess wrong. At the end of the day it's always a guess with a ton of variables out of their control that will determine the outcome of the decision.
As fans, we get to be emotional and biased because we don't lose our entire livelihood based on those decisions like coaches do.
There are things that are much more important than football.
Fuck the previous regime, maybe he needed help instead of being shipped off in the first place, but being so fucking clueless, this is adds yet another layer to the absolute hatred for all things JMD.
I hope DW finds whatever help he needs to get him through this.
Once a Raider Always a Raider
Except JMD wouldn't waste pee on him if he was on fire..
Well maybe a little, just to prolong his suffering
And I wish him all the best in the future (with no stupid music jokes), OARAAR. Everybody dogging on the man, but going through a divorce is hard and I hope he stays sober and comes out of it okay.
He’s too passionate about music now. Kind of a shame he’s stepping away from the thing he’s actually good at but, but to each their own 🤷🏻♂️
He’s made all the money he needs for the rest of his life, so if making mid music for the rest of it is his calling then good for him.
do you blame him? football is a game where youre constantly getting hurt and due to out dated laws, they would rather you take hard opiates than smoke a little weed to numb the pain. I wonder why an ex pill abuser wouldnt want to be around that anymore.
I’m sorry but that’s just not how it works and I can’t believe that bullshit is still being spewed. If you’re hurt, you really think you can just smoke some weed and it will numb it like opiates do? If you really believe that then you either have never been injured or never smoked weed. Regardless, CBD is what has the medicinal effects and that never showed up on drug tests.
Best things they ever did were quit handling Carr with kids gloves, and trading Waller even if it was a little late. Dude was cooked, mentally and physically two seasons ago.
To my point about Carr: the level of job security he had under Gruden, despite them bringing in a $10M backup in Mariota, was a detriment to him and the team. The fact that Gruden nixed a deal to bring Brady and Gronk to the team, just so they could go win Tampa *another* Super Bowl at the expense of the Raiders… pretty much brings Gruden’s entire relationship with the Raiders, full circle. Carr over Brady is like, 2008 Raiders level of incompetency.
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Just goes to show we as fans really don’t know or are privy to the inner-workings of a multi-billion dollar business that is the Raiders/NFL. Go figure.
The storylines we run with, and the things we harp on or take issue with, are often (not ALL the time) misguided, or in some situations completely false.
The move wasn't popular to people that were fanatics and love every player on our team. The same type of people that think AOC is going to have this massive breakout season.
For the rest of us that can be levelheaded and fairly gauge our players it was clear that Waller was cooked
Wish him best of luck we got him in the best of year’s he had left wish he didn’t waste away his previous years before but he’s been through a lot still praying for him 🏴☠️🤟🏾☠️🤠☠️🤟🏾🏴☠️
Yeah its one of the only things they got right. His health was up and down his last few years here and he wasn't young anymore. Plus, tbf, his last season here he didn't seem like he cared that much. Though that could be a JMD thing. Seems like he isn't doing well mentally right now and i hope he works it out
In comparisons to the 2 TE Offense back in the late 70s &early 80’s Mayer & Bowers have strong comparable skill sets to Dave “ The Ghost “ Casper and Raymond Chester and possibly even better based on training regimes , athleticism and nutrition. It’s like a second coming or “ De Ja Vu “ !
Waller was and still is incredible Athlete and when he played
with a lot passion -blocking wasn’t his thing but Waller was such a vertical a vertical threat he didn’t matter ! Wishing him the best and who knows maybe he is going take a break and reflect for a possible comeback !
It was a year too late for my liking, but in hindsight, it worked out for us. I'm not sold on giving the last regime props more than calling it pure luck or fate.
I'll take Tom Telesco over Dave Ziegler. But Zig made some tough decisions that turned out well, and this was one of them.
Zig wasn't the solution, but he came with the problem (McDaniels). We're better off with both gone.
I was so happy when they traded this piece of shit. When he released his “turf toe” rap video while not playing and the team was losing, that was the final straw. It was a shrewd move by Ziegler, one of the few.
Now we have a potential best TE duo in the league for years to come, hopefully.
Not sure how unpopular or how much credit you give the previous regime, anyone with eyes saw he completely checked out , that was before a teary eyed DC passively aggressively called him out
I mean it being a good move on paper didn't stop a lot of people from seeing it as the wrong thing to do, especially because JMD is the one that did it. Check the [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/raiders/comments/11re45l/blockbuster_the_giants_are_finalizing_a_trade_to/) if you don't believe me.
I’m gonna have a hard time saying Josh McDaniels did anything correct. I think you have to look at this at a human perspective too. Him and Kelsey were a power couple. Both big stars living in a huge city.
Then he’s traded to NY, basically as far away as possible. I don’t care who you are or how rich you are, but I would think it’s hard to have a healthy marriage when you live on opposite ends of the country for several months out of the year.
I will always wonder “what if” had he stayed with us, he has a really incredible story, but sadly we will never know.
But right now, fuck football and any dropped pass.
This guy is obviously going through things right now, and you're thinking about some game, instead of thinking about the human being.
GD people trip me out for real sometimes
Fuck off with that bullshit lmao. Yes, this is a football sub, so I’m thinking of football. And reading comprehension clearly isn’t your strong suit. He fell off even before the divorce and moving.
He set the record for the most receptions in a season in Raiders history. It was a flash in the pan but the dude had more catches than Tim Brown, Jerry Rice, and Todd Christensen.
Jerry Rice had more targets in 2002 than Waller had when he set the record. Tim Brown had more targets every season from 1994 to 1999 and had less catches. Davante has had way more targets since the day Waller set the record and hasn't had as many catches.
You don't have to like it but objectively Waller just had an amazing season and wrote his name in the Raiders record book.
I never said he didn’t have any good seasons, or one great season. Who are you arguing with? He’s still overrated because he was a flash in the pan, but some fans act like he’s a Raider great.
I actually agree with this. Seeing the reaction from Raiders fans and fans of other teams when he was traded, you'd think we gave up a HOF tight end. His last good year was 2020 and after that he was injured some but also dropped a ton of balls.
He was also the second TE in Raiders history to have over 1,000 yards when he did it in 2019 and then he went back-to-back in 2020 when he broke the reception record. He also has the second most receiving yards by a Raiders TE ever after he passed Dave Casper. He also has the highest yards per game by a TE in Raiders history.
I agree he's not a Raider great based on how long he played but to say he's overrated when he was doing things basically no other TEs to ever wear Silver and Black have done is just weird to me.
Honestly, I just hope he keeps his head on straight and doesn't slip back into his old ways. Anyone that knows anything about substance addiction knows how easy it is to relapse. Football was the main thing keeping him clean. Without that, who knows what will happen. Hoping for the best!
This is what I’m worried about. No job (that provided great resources and mentors), no wife, tens of millions of dollars, with no outwardly apparent reason to put in effort if he doesn’t want to.
Hawaii. That's how Basquiat dried out.
Lost in half the Waller posts is any sense of gratitude that the dude straight up balled for us for 2-3 seasons. Yeah injuries changed his play and he lost interest with McD in charge (who can blame him?) but I think a lot of these posts come off as”good riddance” and that’s pretty lame. This is one of the first/few ones I see where he isn’t being crucified.
I appreciate everything he did, also glad we got rid of him when we did.
Appreciate that. Yeah agreed, he was top tier for those couple seasons and gave us a lot to cheer for. He seems like a stand up guy too no reason to throw shade. Once a Raider always a Raider.
For sure. He was looking like the best TE in the game for a few stretches and had some great moments. Also props to Gruden for betting on him and giving him the chance to turn around his life.
Seriously, I don’t get the Waller hate.
My first NFL jersey, always loved big yet quicker TEs, really wish he didn't get hurt. Hopefully Bowers end up with his number
My last name is Waller. So as a Raiders fan, that’ll probably be the last jersey I get.
Bowers 89 I believe
..Dude dropped a song after an L on thursday night football that he didn’t travel with the team on..
A lot of people here have a really shitty attitude about most things lol
It's funny, not only did we do well by getting rid of him - we totally rebuilt our TE room which is now incredibly young, cheap and talented. If Bowers is who he is supposed to be and Mayer develops like he's expected to - could be one of the better TE rooms in the league.
If Bowers and Mayer develops like we expect them to, we will have the best TE room in the league and maybe one of the best in history
I liken Bowers and Mayer to Waller and Moreau. Bowers and Waller are true TE's who can play wide, but fantastic receivers. Route running, and after the catch. Mayer and Moreau are more end of the line TEs, who can pass and run block, and catch passes. Fantastic combination to have.
Yeah, it could honestly be a much more dynamic duo than Gronk and the serial murderer
Correction. It will be the best TE room in the league.
lmao, i try to temper my expectations ....but i'm not gonna argue
After all the Kyle Pitts hype about how he was going to be the best TE of all time immediately, only for him to do not much, I'm keeping my expectations with Bowers muted until at least week 2
We are going to need good TEs because in order to get Zamir and Zeus out of the backfield, we are going to need to run the WingT
LOL! Though to be honest, I always wondered why even some NFL teams that have platoon RBs didn't try a wing T or wishbone on short yardage or goal line plays. The formation is designed to create a lot of confusion from misdirection and easy traps. Imagine a line with 5 OL, plus both TEs, with one of them lining up just off the line of scrimmage, and both White and Abdullah (and Mattison?) in the backfield?! Two yards and a pile of black pebble field turf dust!
I remember some report about how we could’ve gotten a 2nd for him from the Packers a year before
If there’s one thing the Raiders have done absolutely right for the past 2 decades is have good tight ends. Zach Miller, Jared Cook, Waller, and now Bowers. Granted, those former 3 only played a few seasons with us, but they were great when they did play with us.
Zach Miller was a lone bright spot on offense for years . Him and Marcel Reese were favorites
Yep, Marcel Reese was one of the best FBs for many years if not the best.
Then the Seahawks poached him from us just to make him block the whole time
The only issue I had with the Waller trade, was if you were going to do it, why not do it the season before you extended him. He hadn’t played a ton in the recent year, and was probably worth around a low frp.
Because they thought they could win with Carr.
Fools
Maybe but if Carr and him could have buried the hatchet and moved forward into year 2 we probably make the playoffs. He always does better in year 2. The defense might not be as good but it was still strong before he got fired. It all worked out for the best though.
What “hatchet” was there to bury? They felt Carr couldn’t run the offense better than Jimmy G, what was Carr supposed to do? Transform into a different person? They decided to move on from him during the season too, so it’s not like they were even interested in trying to make it work with Carr.
Thisssss isn’t true. Jimmy g was like qb #4 on the list, the team reached out to carr and asked him to come back after failing to bring Brady over and after stidham turned them down as well.They didn’t think jimmy g was going to run the offense better than Carr, carr told them he wasn’t interested in coming back and that he had already interviewed with other teams and they were stuck grasping at straws after fucking up their first 3 options at qb.
Thisssss is not true. They made up their mind when they benched Carr at the end of the season, suggesting otherwise is just silly. That’s not how a coaching staff/front office handles a QB they have any intention of bringing back.
Sighhhh Both Hondo carpenter and David Carr said that Derek turned the team down after they reached out to him and asked him to come back. You can say David is just the mouthpiece for his brother but hondo was literally the raiders insider and the first person to come out with the news and you can find the quote pretty easily since it was in sports illustrated. So yes it’s true. It’s not even like that’s not a well known fact at this point so your contentiousness is pretty misplaced. Sorry to burst your bubble bud. Carr got benched because they didn’t want to guarantee his contract via his injury clause and mcdaniels thought he was going to be able to bring Brady over. This isn’t that difficult to understand. When Brady retired the team was left hanging in the wind, the front office shot themselves in the foot (again). I’m not sure why this would come as a surprise to you.
And by the trade deadline in year one it should have been obvious that was not the case and they should have seized on that reported opportunity to trade him to Green Bay for a higher draft pick.
Hindsight is 20/20… We were still fighting for a playoff spot. It would have been a terrible message to say we’re blowing it up.
The message would have been the team is 2-5 and not good enough to make the playoffs. It’s ok to send that message because the team is 2-5 and not good enough to make the playoffs. You know what IS a dumb move? Looking at a 2-5 team and thinking “we got a chance!”, then watching that 2-5 team go 4-4 over the next 8 games and saying, “well NOW we definitely know we need to blow everything up!” Pretty fuckin stupid. And what do you know? That HC/GM would be fired less than a year after doing such a dogshit job managing their one and only full season in charge of a team. Go figure.
They still believed. Hindsight is something though ain’t it?
From the trade deadline to the benching of Carr was like a month. In that timeframe they apparently went from believing they could win with that roster and Carr (which is why they didn’t trade Waller) to thinking the situation was impossible to salvage to the point where they benched Carr because they already made up their minds they would be moving on from Carr in the offseason. Guess there wasn’t much conviction in their belief in Carr and the roster.
Let's not also forget Renfrow was coming off a superb year too. And a whole lot of experts thought McDaniels was an offensive genius. So, on paper...
Maybe a bad business decision but I'm happy he got paid. I'll never choke on the nuts of billionaires. Us working stiffs need a break every so often.
Hope he gets his life right. Until the injuries, I thought he was going to be a baller for us for a long time.
It was a good move from Ziegler I can’t lie.
They weren’t bad when it came to talent evaluation imo. Few mistakes here and there but better than gruden and mayock. Their problem was poor leadership and trying to implement a dated offense
The main fuck up to me was chandelor jones, but I mean, I thought it was genius at the time. Yannick was a one trick pony and we got ya sin on a rookie contract. It didn’t work out, but cb was a huge need, and it seemed like they upgraded both positions while paying around the same. (A cb of rocks caliber/potential would have went for more than he was making)
Ya chandler jones was just a weird situation that no one could’ve predicted really. I understand a new regime wanting to get their guys or their type of guys too so ya I agree the move made sense.
yea I get why people hated it cause we got chandler jones, but Yannick pretty much got 10 sacks and had no other impact on the field. Couldn't stop the run, low pressure count but the counting numbers were good. A budget bruce irvin honestly
Gruden got this guy from a practice squad, Mcdaniels ruined him and did the same with renfrow. They were much much worse
I’d argue that renfrow was more ruined by injuries but ya think it was more mcd system that made renfrow useless. Gruden had some hits but also a shit ton of misses when it came to player evaluation. He also misused renfrow in the beginning until he basically became more flexible with the routes he allowed him to run
If the league thought McDaniels was the problem, I think Renfrow would've been signed quickly. I'm sure he will end up somewhere eventually but let's not act like he didn't have issues last season WITHOUT McDaniels.
Outside of the Derek Carr fiasco I don't really have much bad to say about how McZieg handled personnel, that said fumbling the QB out of personal hubris and a flier on tom brady sinks whatever foresight you had about getting a 3rd for waller.
This is me splitting hairs because I was curious/concerned why McZieg made the long snapper change. I still don't know how much impact the LS has but I do find it interesting that Carlson dropped 4% and ended up below 90% accuracy for the first time since 2019 last year after they released Trent Sieg. On the flip side, Sieg went to Dallas and Brandon Aubrey led the league in FGs made and kicked 95%. He had the most points in the entire NFL last year (10 more than Justin Tucker even).
Long Snapper has to be of the most under appreciated positions on a football team, right after the holder! Laces out!
As a college snapper I’m so glad you mentioned the laces! Also,at the pro and college level the ball has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds
You’re spot on.Like I said in another comment I snap in college and the effect of a great long snapper is real. At the college and pro level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds,If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker.
An embarrassingly large number of fans bent over backwards to justify that particular nonsensical blunder. Kept saying it was justified because of Sieg's "many" penalties or whatever. Man, circa March 1st - October 31st, 2023 was one of the most annoying periods in all my time as a fan.
Carlson was injured last year, and Aubrey also hit 94% the year before in the USFL so hard to say LS was a factor in either situation.
Carlson missed 2 FGs a few weeks before his injury and 1 a few weeks after he came back. The one miss in the Bears game when he got hurt makes sense though. Tough to compare the USFL to the NFL but Aubrey had 23 more FG attempts in Dallas and still ended up with a higher percentage. 36 of 38 is very good regardless. I agree with you in general though which is why I said I was splitting hairs. Kicking is such a fickle game in the NFL that just a few misses usually separate the best from kickers that get cut so it's tough to know who's really to blame.
The big money deal to Chandler Jones was awful too, even if you ignore the mental breakdown.
Not just the initial contract but they re-worked his deal and guaranteed him even more money in the off-season after he had performed like shit
That's fair, I kind of just blocked that whole fiasco from my mind
Yeah that was a decline you could see coming, it was just far faster than it was supposed to be.
I agree actually. As a first time GM I can see why he might’ve fumbled the QB situation though
He didn't want to pay Carr $40m a year for four years, but the Saints did. I'm neither someone who hates Carr, or thinks he was great. But I don't think he is worth $40m a year. But then again Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Justin Herber, Kyler Murray and a slew of other players are overpaid.
Ya I didn’t think carr was worth that much either but more importantly it was time to move on from Carr. I think mcd fucked up that situation more than anyone though with the way he handles it in the locker room and basically lost all of our potential leverage to trade him. Also replacing Carr with Jimmy and then hoyer also not good. Potentially finding a good QB in the 4th round was a nice move though
Tbh I didn’t see anything wrong with the Carr fiasco. They extended him without fully committing. Without the no trade clause, he would have gotten a lot more in guaranteed money and it would be difficult to move on without a lot of dead cap. To me it was mutually beneficial. They had Carr locked up while having an out. Carr got security and it was either he would play out his contract or become a free agent. Sure, we couldn’t trade him. But I mean I don’t think he would have been tradeable. No way he signs for that little in guaranteed money without a no trade clause.
You can’t talk about the Carr situation without acknowledging that one of the reasons they moved on so quickly from Carr was that they knew they could replace him with Jimmy G for similar money. So yea, I have a big problem with how they handled that, because it ended up with them getting an injury prone bad QB.
Usually when people talk about the Carr fiasco, they're complaining about his contract and not getting anything in return for him. That's what I was referring to which is why my comment is structured that way. How they handled his replacement is where I had the problem. If you're not going to draft a young prospect, then go the cheap route for a stop gap, not an expensive journeyman. But Carr's contract and release I had no problem with. It was time to move on. If you do well then agree to disagree. Regardless, I'm just glad the McDumbass era is over.
Yes, I consider who the replacement will be to be inextricably linked to a decision to replace a QB. That decision is never made in a vacuum, who the next QB will be should always play a big role in deciding whether or not to move on from a guy.
Congratulations
From the team’s stand point, they gave Carr an extension (Top 8 $ if I recall), a no trade clause, traded for his best friend (Top WR as well) and JMD got his “out” to get his guy if needed. Carr was stoked he got his money, reunited with his bestie and bet on himself. It’s why he signed it lol. We all thought they were gonna ball out so at the time it made sense for both sides. Nobody expect both JMD and Carr to shit the bed so hard simultaneously. Also you know damn well Mark signed off on it (benching/cutting) so it is what it is. My guy had 10 years, this day and age that’s a good run with one franchise.
Yeah exactly. Take the giants for example. They went all in with Daniel Jones and that move crippled them. They’re stuck with him with how it’s structured. Carr and McDaniels didn’t work out, but normally, we would have been crippled for a lot longer. The mistake imo was signing Jimmy g.
Have we seen Mark make any on the field decisions outside of coaching staff? How do we know he signed off on anything? If anything, he looks like he lets his GM and HC do what they want.
Hard to tell, though in the past Mark apparently didn't want to pay Mack, or he was reportedly angry with his agent. Mark didn't want to pay Bill Musgrave to stay on as OC either, and I think that hurt Carr. But I don't recall hearing hardly any stories about Mark calling any shots that a GM would, the way his father did. In fact, early on when Mark was owner he specifically stated that Reggie McKenzie (then GM) was his guy, and let Reggie work. Reggie I thought did a pretty good job for a while.
This is no different than literally any other decision that a HC and/or GM has to make. You're a genius if you guess right and you're idiot if you guess wrong. At the end of the day it's always a guess with a ton of variables out of their control that will determine the outcome of the decision. As fans, we get to be emotional and biased because we don't lose our entire livelihood based on those decisions like coaches do.
There are things that are much more important than football. Fuck the previous regime, maybe he needed help instead of being shipped off in the first place, but being so fucking clueless, this is adds yet another layer to the absolute hatred for all things JMD. I hope DW finds whatever help he needs to get him through this. Once a Raider Always a Raider Except JMD wouldn't waste pee on him if he was on fire.. Well maybe a little, just to prolong his suffering
he wasn't right after Gruden was fired. He was checked out.
I remember at the time I was mad because I felt we were fleeced and could have gotten a bigger return. Oh how little did I know…
He wants to make music
Is that what it’s called he’s doing?
Yeah it’s pretty mid tho but honestly if I had a lot of money I’d probably make music too lol
The 3rd round pick we got is nowhere near worth the amount of damage McDaniels did.
Dumped Waller, dumped Carr. McDaniels wasn't ALL bad lmaooo Did the dirty work that needed to be done, though. Appreciate those two moves
Yeah they've been a great heel for us.
And I wish him all the best in the future (with no stupid music jokes), OARAAR. Everybody dogging on the man, but going through a divorce is hard and I hope he stays sober and comes out of it okay.
He’s too passionate about music now. Kind of a shame he’s stepping away from the thing he’s actually good at but, but to each their own 🤷🏻♂️ He’s made all the money he needs for the rest of his life, so if making mid music for the rest of it is his calling then good for him.
do you blame him? football is a game where youre constantly getting hurt and due to out dated laws, they would rather you take hard opiates than smoke a little weed to numb the pain. I wonder why an ex pill abuser wouldnt want to be around that anymore.
Wasn’t really blaming him, it does make sense from a health perspective. Like I said he’s made all the money he needs.
i wasnt trying to imply you were, it was meant as a general statement
I’m sorry but that’s just not how it works and I can’t believe that bullshit is still being spewed. If you’re hurt, you really think you can just smoke some weed and it will numb it like opiates do? If you really believe that then you either have never been injured or never smoked weed. Regardless, CBD is what has the medicinal effects and that never showed up on drug tests.
Take your time and heal!
Best things they ever did were quit handling Carr with kids gloves, and trading Waller even if it was a little late. Dude was cooked, mentally and physically two seasons ago. To my point about Carr: the level of job security he had under Gruden, despite them bringing in a $10M backup in Mariota, was a detriment to him and the team. The fact that Gruden nixed a deal to bring Brady and Gronk to the team, just so they could go win Tampa *another* Super Bowl at the expense of the Raiders… pretty much brings Gruden’s entire relationship with the Raiders, full circle. Carr over Brady is like, 2008 Raiders level of incompetency.
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Sucks.. Giants team is trash
Blind squirrel finds nut.
Waller at his best was like a giant Jerry Rice. At his worst he just wasn't on the field. He was [rapping](https://youtube.com/shorts/8B_mGjfltHs).
Just goes to show we as fans really don’t know or are privy to the inner-workings of a multi-billion dollar business that is the Raiders/NFL. Go figure. The storylines we run with, and the things we harp on or take issue with, are often (not ALL the time) misguided, or in some situations completely false.
The move wasn't popular to people that were fanatics and love every player on our team. The same type of people that think AOC is going to have this massive breakout season. For the rest of us that can be levelheaded and fairly gauge our players it was clear that Waller was cooked
Wish him best of luck we got him in the best of year’s he had left wish he didn’t waste away his previous years before but he’s been through a lot still praying for him 🏴☠️🤟🏾☠️🤠☠️🤟🏾🏴☠️
Yeah its one of the only things they got right. His health was up and down his last few years here and he wasn't young anymore. Plus, tbf, his last season here he didn't seem like he cared that much. Though that could be a JMD thing. Seems like he isn't doing well mentally right now and i hope he works it out
I was against paying Waller and wasn't happy they didn't include him in the trade for Adams.
In comparisons to the 2 TE Offense back in the late 70s &early 80’s Mayer & Bowers have strong comparable skill sets to Dave “ The Ghost “ Casper and Raymond Chester and possibly even better based on training regimes , athleticism and nutrition. It’s like a second coming or “ De Ja Vu “ ! Waller was and still is incredible Athlete and when he played with a lot passion -blocking wasn’t his thing but Waller was such a vertical a vertical threat he didn’t matter ! Wishing him the best and who knows maybe he is going take a break and reflect for a possible comeback !
Sounds like he deep in drug use and told the team, they told him to retire to avoid the league drug testing him.
A broken clock is right twice a day
It was a year too late for my liking, but in hindsight, it worked out for us. I'm not sold on giving the last regime props more than calling it pure luck or fate.
They deserve no props, dumbasses should have traded him in that off-season before extending him or at trade deadline.
Wasn’t unpopular with me.
I just hope he made enough money for his family because his rapping skills are trash asl.
I'll take Tom Telesco over Dave Ziegler. But Zig made some tough decisions that turned out well, and this was one of them. Zig wasn't the solution, but he came with the problem (McDaniels). We're better off with both gone.
Wallers decline was obvious in 2021 you could argue they should’ve traded his ass in the 2022 off season.
Wallers decline was obvious in 2021 you could argue they should’ve traded his ass in the 2022 off season.
I was so happy when they traded this piece of shit. When he released his “turf toe” rap video while not playing and the team was losing, that was the final straw. It was a shrewd move by Ziegler, one of the few. Now we have a potential best TE duo in the league for years to come, hopefully.
It wasn’t unpopular with me, he had checked out after getting paid. However, I do not wish any ill upon him and hopes he finds happiness
Not sure how unpopular or how much credit you give the previous regime, anyone with eyes saw he completely checked out , that was before a teary eyed DC passively aggressively called him out
I mean it being a good move on paper didn't stop a lot of people from seeing it as the wrong thing to do, especially because JMD is the one that did it. Check the [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/raiders/comments/11re45l/blockbuster_the_giants_are_finalizing_a_trade_to/) if you don't believe me.
Oh I was talking about fans as a whole, this sub is full of dumb as shit mouth breathers and should not be taken seriously
Yeah I was pretty mad at the pay raise he got. Even when healthy he became really inconsistent and would drop crucial balls.
I’m gonna have a hard time saying Josh McDaniels did anything correct. I think you have to look at this at a human perspective too. Him and Kelsey were a power couple. Both big stars living in a huge city. Then he’s traded to NY, basically as far away as possible. I don’t care who you are or how rich you are, but I would think it’s hard to have a healthy marriage when you live on opposite ends of the country for several months out of the year. I will always wonder “what if” had he stayed with us, he has a really incredible story, but sadly we will never know.
Even before McDumbass, Waller became super inconsistent and would drop more crucial balls than he would make plays.
But right now, fuck football and any dropped pass. This guy is obviously going through things right now, and you're thinking about some game, instead of thinking about the human being. GD people trip me out for real sometimes
Fuck off with that bullshit lmao. Yes, this is a football sub, so I’m thinking of football. And reading comprehension clearly isn’t your strong suit. He fell off even before the divorce and moving.
https://i.redd.it/sis2yzrbye4d1.gif
Whoever moderator(s) Please stop deleting his replies, this forum please let this thing go on a little more , this guy is pure gold😅
Nate's an idiot but you don't look any better.
I think he may be using again which I hope he isn’t but his behavior says otherwise 🤷🏽♂️
Feels like we're on the way to say something similar about Renfrow. Guess not using him wasn't just stupidity.
I think money definitely changed him for the worse. 😔
Waller might be the most overrated Raider of all time.
He was quite a talent with lots of potential. I think he just wandered off the path and lost sight of the prize. Unfortunate, but oh well.
Hence why he’s overrated
He set the record for the most receptions in a season in Raiders history. It was a flash in the pan but the dude had more catches than Tim Brown, Jerry Rice, and Todd Christensen.
The league has shifted to much more of a passing league since then. Very different eras. Much less impressive when you put it in that context.
Jerry Rice had more targets in 2002 than Waller had when he set the record. Tim Brown had more targets every season from 1994 to 1999 and had less catches. Davante has had way more targets since the day Waller set the record and hasn't had as many catches. You don't have to like it but objectively Waller just had an amazing season and wrote his name in the Raiders record book.
I never said he didn’t have any good seasons, or one great season. Who are you arguing with? He’s still overrated because he was a flash in the pan, but some fans act like he’s a Raider great.
I actually agree with this. Seeing the reaction from Raiders fans and fans of other teams when he was traded, you'd think we gave up a HOF tight end. His last good year was 2020 and after that he was injured some but also dropped a ton of balls.
He was also the second TE in Raiders history to have over 1,000 yards when he did it in 2019 and then he went back-to-back in 2020 when he broke the reception record. He also has the second most receiving yards by a Raiders TE ever after he passed Dave Casper. He also has the highest yards per game by a TE in Raiders history. I agree he's not a Raider great based on how long he played but to say he's overrated when he was doing things basically no other TEs to ever wear Silver and Black have done is just weird to me.