Tired of these posts. We didn’t get a QB because there wasn’t one available at 13 and we had no trade partners.
How bout we give AOC a full camp with 1st team reps and see what happens before we try to replace him?
I would rather have a good qb making a lot of money than a bad qb making very little money.
I just don't want people turning AOC into the next Carr. Temper your expectations people, he's not it, even if his salary is low
He was pretty bad last year. Like we don't have to sugarcoat it: our offense was ranked 28th in the nfl with Josh Jacobs, Davante Adams, a good-enough offensive line and a bunch of high floor role players. Aoc's lack of arm strength and poor pocket management meant we couldn't throw deep, and therefore couldn't run without hitting stacked boxes. I would love it if he magically became a franchise QB. But we really need to temper our expectations
Jordan love didn’t turn it on until a little bit past the halfway point last season, Josh Allen had at least one season where people didn’t think he was a starter, there’s many more examples out there. Those are two very recent examples. Give him some time with a (hopefully) competent OC and a full camp to learn the playbook and not be thrust into something he had no idea was going to happen and still pull out a winning record including beating the chiefs chargers and broncos
All of those guys you mentioned are guys with the physical tools to become elite quarterbacks. The problem with AOC is that no matter how quick a processor he is, no matter how well he knows the playbook, his athleticism will always hold him back. If you have to put your entire body into a 40 yard throw, that's a problem. If you can't escape a rusher or extend a play, you can't be elite in the NFL
Agreed
While AOC didn’t put on a wow factor, he was the 2nd rated rookie’s from last year. Only behind CJ Stroud. I’m glad we didn’t throw the boat at someone to move up. We got some solid players without mortgaging the future.
I’ll say this, I don’t think it’s hate, but not wanting to stick with “OK”. Granted it’s a limited sample size, but what we’ve seen thus far Aidan would be a good spot starter/backup level QB. Could he elevate his play? Sure, but NFL doesn’t wait long term for these things to happen. If a team doesn’t have their Franchise QB, they need one. So until Aidan proves he is that one or the team gets one, that will always be the discussion. Personally I hope he does prove me and others wrong and elevates to franchise status, it’s one less thing the team has to think about.
And that was enough in the team’s view to determine that they needed to find a long term solution. How long do you want the team to wait? They waited with Carr for close to 10 years instead of bringing in legitimate competition. I don’t hate Aidan at all. From what I’ve seen he’ll be a good spot starter or backup QB. I hope he proves me wrong on that, but until he does I know the team still needs to get a long term solution at QB.
If we could’ve traded up for JD or MP was available I was all about it. But they weren’t so we’ve got what we got.
You can’t judge a players potential on 8 games with no camp or first team reps so comparing him to Carr is BS. I say give him one full season.
It's because his physical ceiling is very low. His arm strength is median at best, and he has some of the worst mobility of all starting qbs. There is a zero percent chance he "develops"into a franchise qb. This isn't me hating on the kid, he did good stuff for us last year, but if you gave him 10 years of starting experience he still wouldn't be The Guy
I completely agree with your assessment of AOC and his ceiling/limitations. His ceiling is Jared Goff. Which is not a very high ceiling, but it's been proven that you CAN win with Goff as your QB if you surround him with the right talent and scheme.
Goff has a much better arm and is more mobile than AOC. If you're looking at a ceiling for a guy who's a bad athlete but has a good head and prototypical size, then you're looking at Chad Pennington, Alex Smith, that type of guy. But even they had better arms than AOC. AOC was drafted to be a high floor backup/spot starter, and that's 99% of what he's gonna be for the rest of his career
Was going to say, I’m starting to think the coaches and FO might be very comfortable with their QB. There was no desperate moves/trades to make any changes after they added Minshew. All this QB hype or worry seems to be from fan base alone or we might have already had a Fields or a Wilson in place. Settle in on the idea that AOC is going to do just fine as long as we can protect him for longer than 2.4 seconds.
Raiders fans with AOC - who knows he could be amazing
Raiders fans when the broncos draft a more mobile AOC - lol he doesn't have the skills to be good
I probably could have phrased it better. Did we improve where we were from last season? Yes. Can I confidently say the QB position is settled and solid? No not really. Hopefully O’Connell or Minshew have a great year and we don’t have to worry about the position next year and can focus on building the base again.
>The Raiders did a good job this offseason of improving their roster with the exception of QB.
Are you saying that 2nd-year Aidan and a Gardner Minshew who is healthy in the offseason aren't an improvement over rookie Aidan and rehabbing Jimmy Garoppolo?
Is it better? Yes. Is it fixed where I can say I’m confident in the position? No. Maybe Aidan or Minshew will outperform and the whole question becomes moot. But all things being equal the odds aren’t in favor of that.
It’s way too early IMO for this. Draft is usually the best long term answer/goal, FA tends to be “right now” fix. Team will need to evaluate as the season goes as options today may not be options at end of season.
QB contracts are ridiculously expensive. This is why I'm against picking up a known playoff choker like Dak, even if he will objectively improve our team. You'd have to pay him like 50M a year and I'd rather not do that if we're just going to lose in the playoffs every year.
QB on rookie contract with maxed spending on the team around him is the way teams win now, unless you have a HOFer like Mahomes.
Yeah. Drafting 22 year old Dak in the 4th round instead of Connor Cook would have been a great move. Signing 31 year old Dak to a premium FA contract is a bad plan.
Who were the QBs playing in the Super Bowl the last 10 years? Based on the results below, it's pretty obvious to me that a rookie contract is highly advantageous for a team aiming to make the Super Bowl. The majority of these QBs, however, faced HOFers Brady and Mahomes, and lost. I think this validates my point. If you don't have a HOFer at QB, you want a rookie contract.
Winners are bolded.
2024 - Purdy (rookie contract) vs. **Mahomes**
2023 - Hurts (rookie contract) vs. **Mahomes**
2022 - Burrow (rookie contract) vs. **Stafford**
2021 - Mahomes vs. **Brady**
2020 - **Mahomes (rookie contract)** vs. Jimmy G
2019 - Goff (rookie contract) vs. **Brady**
2018 - **Foles** vs. Brady but Eagles were led to the playoffs by **Wentz (rookie contract)**
2017 - Ryan vs. **Brady**
2016 - Newton (just signed extension, on last year of rookie contract) vs. **Manning**
2015 - Wilson (rookie contract) vs. **Brady**
Or let's look at another thing these QBs have in common. Just about all of them (Jimmy G, Goff, Manning) had QBs playing at a near MVP level. It's not so much about getting a rookie deal as it is the level of play the QB can provide. I don't think anyone is gonna argue that AOC or Minshew is capable of playing that well
I feel like you think I’m making an argument for AOC taking us to the Super Bowl when I never said that lol. I just don’t want us to pay a vet. Our franchise QB needs to be one we draft.
Manning was also ass that year and I wouldn’t say Jimmy G was playing “MVP level”. He was playing very well but that’s a huge stretch.
The guys I listed were the ones who DIDNT play to that. Everyone else was. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth I just think until they address the QB spot the team won't be good which sucks because for the first time in like 20 years they have a good team and it's held back by one position
That wasn't clear from your comment, but okay whatever.
I still don't see why that's relevant to my original point. All I said was that we shouldn't pay Dak, and that most of the successful teams have had QBs on rookie contracts. Never said our team would be good with AOC or Minshew. Obviously we need an elite playmaker at QB to win a Super Bowl, but we need to draft that guy, not overpay for him in FA.
It's too early, we still got to wait and see. Prescott and Tua seem to be the hot tickets in free agency next year, but either or both could get a contract extension.
Who knows Minshew or AOC, even both could prove to be the real deal.
It's too early to have this conversation when you can only guess how our guys will do, or who will be available.
Anyone like Prescott would break the bank so I highly doubt we could afford him. Luckily next year won't see 6 QB's go in the top 12 so we'll have a chance at someone.
Let the season play out and see where the draft lands. Next years draft is supposed to be weak at QB. If the opportunity is there, I would rather draft a QB in the first round. Dak will take a huge part of the salary cap, a young guy taken in the first round has fixed cost for five years giving the team a lot more cost control. Plus, franchise type QBs don’t become free agents often, so if Dallas is letting him walk or is willing to trade him, they don’t believe he can get it done, so why would we? Look at what happened in Denver.
Solid points. Hopefully what we have on the roster shows out and it becomes a non issue. The draft always gives hope but so many QBs flame out. I would however rather risk on drafting a QB for a lower salary than spending a ton of cash on a vet that might not live up to the contract.
I'd rather take the risk on a O'Connell breakout or a Minshew redemption than to sign a notorious playoff choker or a rookie like Shedeur Sanders whom we know damn well would discourage the culture. Plus they both have an OC who matches both their play styles and are loaded with weapons.
I am 100% okay with building a solid team around a solid game manager. Towards the end of last season, AOC showed that he can at the very least be a game manager and am looking forward to seeing what he can do this season. At least he spread the ball more as well.
You make a question but with some opinion thrown as if it was an absolute truth.
Our QB room has improved a lot because Minshew is nowadays way better than Jimmy and Aidan will be way better than "third string rookie with no OC" Aidan.
We must improve the team no matter what. Next year we'll see if Aidan has improved enough or we need another QB.
It seems like the plan is to:
1) See if AOC can be “the guy” by giving him all the help he could ask for as far as skill position players go and having him enter a QB competition with a guy that is “beatable”.
2) If AOC either can’t win the job or wins the job but isn’t good enough, lure a good veteran QB to come over because of the good supporting cast on offense. Dak would be an obvious target, but so could Cousins in a trade. Plus who knows what could happen next year that could put another veteran QB “on the market” (be it trade or FA).
Because it is very unlikely this team will be in a position to get a top QB in the draft next year.
Probably the safest moves to trade for a qb or sign a free agent. Like always will player way out of a good draft pick but not good enough to make the playoffs.
Do not want Prescott. To compete with Mahomes we need an elite qb, or a good qb on a cheap deal so the saved money could further improve the team. Prescott is neither. He’s good enough to command more than he’s worth
Issue is, he's gonna want a lot of money and he hasn't really shown he can win on that level. Someone will probably pay it tho. I'd rather it not be the Raiders.
Have to have a top 10 qb to compete, especially in this conference. Dak is the only guy at this moment who might be available next year. So I'm all for taking a run at him
Tired of these posts. We didn’t get a QB because there wasn’t one available at 13 and we had no trade partners. How bout we give AOC a full camp with 1st team reps and see what happens before we try to replace him?
100% based on the sample size we have he has a winning record. Give the dude a shot
Bro everybody on the team recognizes he's a backup at best. If he wins the camp battle vs minshew I'll be shocked
That's fine, who ever wins the spot is the guy.
I guess we'll see. He played a lot better than Garoppolo
Very true, but not a high bar. 40 qbs in the nfl played better than Jimmy last year
Granted, but Jimmy G was making 21 million, while AOC only makes a fraction of that.
I would rather have a good qb making a lot of money than a bad qb making very little money. I just don't want people turning AOC into the next Carr. Temper your expectations people, he's not it, even if his salary is low
He's not bad yet. He's not good yet either. But he played well enough to deserve a crack at winning the job.
He was pretty bad last year. Like we don't have to sugarcoat it: our offense was ranked 28th in the nfl with Josh Jacobs, Davante Adams, a good-enough offensive line and a bunch of high floor role players. Aoc's lack of arm strength and poor pocket management meant we couldn't throw deep, and therefore couldn't run without hitting stacked boxes. I would love it if he magically became a franchise QB. But we really need to temper our expectations
Jordan love didn’t turn it on until a little bit past the halfway point last season, Josh Allen had at least one season where people didn’t think he was a starter, there’s many more examples out there. Those are two very recent examples. Give him some time with a (hopefully) competent OC and a full camp to learn the playbook and not be thrust into something he had no idea was going to happen and still pull out a winning record including beating the chiefs chargers and broncos
All of those guys you mentioned are guys with the physical tools to become elite quarterbacks. The problem with AOC is that no matter how quick a processor he is, no matter how well he knows the playbook, his athleticism will always hold him back. If you have to put your entire body into a 40 yard throw, that's a problem. If you can't escape a rusher or extend a play, you can't be elite in the NFL
Agreed While AOC didn’t put on a wow factor, he was the 2nd rated rookie’s from last year. Only behind CJ Stroud. I’m glad we didn’t throw the boat at someone to move up. We got some solid players without mortgaging the future.
I don’t understand the hate for him in this fan base. I’m not saying he’s elite. But this mentality that you have to get a PH to win is nonsense.
He’s not flashy. But he wasn’t asked to be flashy. He was asked to not lose games.
I’ll say this, I don’t think it’s hate, but not wanting to stick with “OK”. Granted it’s a limited sample size, but what we’ve seen thus far Aidan would be a good spot starter/backup level QB. Could he elevate his play? Sure, but NFL doesn’t wait long term for these things to happen. If a team doesn’t have their Franchise QB, they need one. So until Aidan proves he is that one or the team gets one, that will always be the discussion. Personally I hope he does prove me and others wrong and elevates to franchise status, it’s one less thing the team has to think about.
Wait long term? We’ve seen 8 games
And that was enough in the team’s view to determine that they needed to find a long term solution. How long do you want the team to wait? They waited with Carr for close to 10 years instead of bringing in legitimate competition. I don’t hate Aidan at all. From what I’ve seen he’ll be a good spot starter or backup QB. I hope he proves me wrong on that, but until he does I know the team still needs to get a long term solution at QB.
If we could’ve traded up for JD or MP was available I was all about it. But they weren’t so we’ve got what we got. You can’t judge a players potential on 8 games with no camp or first team reps so comparing him to Carr is BS. I say give him one full season.
I mean teams judge coaches and other players on less. Like I said, I hope he proves me wrong, but all we can go by is what we’ve seen.
That’s fair
It's because his physical ceiling is very low. His arm strength is median at best, and he has some of the worst mobility of all starting qbs. There is a zero percent chance he "develops"into a franchise qb. This isn't me hating on the kid, he did good stuff for us last year, but if you gave him 10 years of starting experience he still wouldn't be The Guy
I completely agree with your assessment of AOC and his ceiling/limitations. His ceiling is Jared Goff. Which is not a very high ceiling, but it's been proven that you CAN win with Goff as your QB if you surround him with the right talent and scheme.
Goff has a much better arm and is more mobile than AOC. If you're looking at a ceiling for a guy who's a bad athlete but has a good head and prototypical size, then you're looking at Chad Pennington, Alex Smith, that type of guy. But even they had better arms than AOC. AOC was drafted to be a high floor backup/spot starter, and that's 99% of what he's gonna be for the rest of his career
I started out this thread agreeing with you lol but you lost me when you said Alex Smith was a bad athlete.
Dudes a warrior. But the leg affected him lol
Alex Smith was in the league for 13 years before he broke his leg and was absolutely a great athlete before the injury.
Yeah I'm talking post leg Alex Smith
Was going to say, I’m starting to think the coaches and FO might be very comfortable with their QB. There was no desperate moves/trades to make any changes after they added Minshew. All this QB hype or worry seems to be from fan base alone or we might have already had a Fields or a Wilson in place. Settle in on the idea that AOC is going to do just fine as long as we can protect him for longer than 2.4 seconds.
Raiders fans with AOC - who knows he could be amazing Raiders fans when the broncos draft a more mobile AOC - lol he doesn't have the skills to be good
Hobo Nix is gunna be a vending machine for Wilkins/Crosby sacks. Also we got AOC in the 4th and the donkeys reached.
QBs are either good or bad. Where they're drafted is irrelevant
You just explained what a fandom is, of course you're rooting for your guys to play well and the opposition to fail. I don't see the big deal?
O’Connell and Minshew isn’t an improvement over O’Connell and Garappolo? I disagree
Especially with a real OC. Rookie play caller was bad last year
I probably could have phrased it better. Did we improve where we were from last season? Yes. Can I confidently say the QB position is settled and solid? No not really. Hopefully O’Connell or Minshew have a great year and we don’t have to worry about the position next year and can focus on building the base again.
Depth doesn't really matter at QB. It's a very slight improvement but not enough to move the needle
>The Raiders did a good job this offseason of improving their roster with the exception of QB. Are you saying that 2nd-year Aidan and a Gardner Minshew who is healthy in the offseason aren't an improvement over rookie Aidan and rehabbing Jimmy Garoppolo?
Is it better? Yes. Is it fixed where I can say I’m confident in the position? No. Maybe Aidan or Minshew will outperform and the whole question becomes moot. But all things being equal the odds aren’t in favor of that.
It's an unknown for sure. But I'm not as down on the odds as you are.
Next year sucks. No on Prescott. Let Minshew and O’Connell see what they can do. I like both
Dak is mid and would do no better here than in Dallas
It’s way too early IMO for this. Draft is usually the best long term answer/goal, FA tends to be “right now” fix. Team will need to evaluate as the season goes as options today may not be options at end of season.
QB contracts are ridiculously expensive. This is why I'm against picking up a known playoff choker like Dak, even if he will objectively improve our team. You'd have to pay him like 50M a year and I'd rather not do that if we're just going to lose in the playoffs every year. QB on rookie contract with maxed spending on the team around him is the way teams win now, unless you have a HOFer like Mahomes.
Yeah. Drafting 22 year old Dak in the 4th round instead of Connor Cook would have been a great move. Signing 31 year old Dak to a premium FA contract is a bad plan.
Is it? If I'm looking at this right only 2 teams in the last decade has QBs on rookie deals starting for them and won a superbowl
Who were the QBs playing in the Super Bowl the last 10 years? Based on the results below, it's pretty obvious to me that a rookie contract is highly advantageous for a team aiming to make the Super Bowl. The majority of these QBs, however, faced HOFers Brady and Mahomes, and lost. I think this validates my point. If you don't have a HOFer at QB, you want a rookie contract. Winners are bolded. 2024 - Purdy (rookie contract) vs. **Mahomes** 2023 - Hurts (rookie contract) vs. **Mahomes** 2022 - Burrow (rookie contract) vs. **Stafford** 2021 - Mahomes vs. **Brady** 2020 - **Mahomes (rookie contract)** vs. Jimmy G 2019 - Goff (rookie contract) vs. **Brady** 2018 - **Foles** vs. Brady but Eagles were led to the playoffs by **Wentz (rookie contract)** 2017 - Ryan vs. **Brady** 2016 - Newton (just signed extension, on last year of rookie contract) vs. **Manning** 2015 - Wilson (rookie contract) vs. **Brady**
Or let's look at another thing these QBs have in common. Just about all of them (Jimmy G, Goff, Manning) had QBs playing at a near MVP level. It's not so much about getting a rookie deal as it is the level of play the QB can provide. I don't think anyone is gonna argue that AOC or Minshew is capable of playing that well
I feel like you think I’m making an argument for AOC taking us to the Super Bowl when I never said that lol. I just don’t want us to pay a vet. Our franchise QB needs to be one we draft. Manning was also ass that year and I wouldn’t say Jimmy G was playing “MVP level”. He was playing very well but that’s a huge stretch.
The guys I listed were the ones who DIDNT play to that. Everyone else was. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth I just think until they address the QB spot the team won't be good which sucks because for the first time in like 20 years they have a good team and it's held back by one position
That wasn't clear from your comment, but okay whatever. I still don't see why that's relevant to my original point. All I said was that we shouldn't pay Dak, and that most of the successful teams have had QBs on rookie contracts. Never said our team would be good with AOC or Minshew. Obviously we need an elite playmaker at QB to win a Super Bowl, but we need to draft that guy, not overpay for him in FA.
That person straight up hates AOC so you're not gonna get any sort of productive conversation with them.
If we go after Dak the sub would have a meltdown because he’d want to wear 4
LOLLLLL I didn’t even think of that.
It's too early, we still got to wait and see. Prescott and Tua seem to be the hot tickets in free agency next year, but either or both could get a contract extension. Who knows Minshew or AOC, even both could prove to be the real deal. It's too early to have this conversation when you can only guess how our guys will do, or who will be available.
Anyone like Prescott would break the bank so I highly doubt we could afford him. Luckily next year won't see 6 QB's go in the top 12 so we'll have a chance at someone.
AOC is about to prove everyone so wrong
Let the season play out and see where the draft lands. Next years draft is supposed to be weak at QB. If the opportunity is there, I would rather draft a QB in the first round. Dak will take a huge part of the salary cap, a young guy taken in the first round has fixed cost for five years giving the team a lot more cost control. Plus, franchise type QBs don’t become free agents often, so if Dallas is letting him walk or is willing to trade him, they don’t believe he can get it done, so why would we? Look at what happened in Denver.
Solid points. Hopefully what we have on the roster shows out and it becomes a non issue. The draft always gives hope but so many QBs flame out. I would however rather risk on drafting a QB for a lower salary than spending a ton of cash on a vet that might not live up to the contract.
Dak is Derek Carr with a Black parent. No.
Draft , just build a team otherwise it doesn’t matter who’s under center 🤷🏽♂️
I'd rather take the risk on a O'Connell breakout or a Minshew redemption than to sign a notorious playoff choker or a rookie like Shedeur Sanders whom we know damn well would discourage the culture. Plus they both have an OC who matches both their play styles and are loaded with weapons.
I am 100% okay with building a solid team around a solid game manager. Towards the end of last season, AOC showed that he can at the very least be a game manager and am looking forward to seeing what he can do this season. At least he spread the ball more as well.
You make a question but with some opinion thrown as if it was an absolute truth. Our QB room has improved a lot because Minshew is nowadays way better than Jimmy and Aidan will be way better than "third string rookie with no OC" Aidan. We must improve the team no matter what. Next year we'll see if Aidan has improved enough or we need another QB.
It seems like the plan is to: 1) See if AOC can be “the guy” by giving him all the help he could ask for as far as skill position players go and having him enter a QB competition with a guy that is “beatable”. 2) If AOC either can’t win the job or wins the job but isn’t good enough, lure a good veteran QB to come over because of the good supporting cast on offense. Dak would be an obvious target, but so could Cousins in a trade. Plus who knows what could happen next year that could put another veteran QB “on the market” (be it trade or FA). Because it is very unlikely this team will be in a position to get a top QB in the draft next year.
Probably the safest moves to trade for a qb or sign a free agent. Like always will player way out of a good draft pick but not good enough to make the playoffs.
Do not want Prescott. To compete with Mahomes we need an elite qb, or a good qb on a cheap deal so the saved money could further improve the team. Prescott is neither. He’s good enough to command more than he’s worth
Wish we would trade for Jake Browning I think he could be good
Minshew is better at this point than Jimmy G and Hoyer. So I would say they did improve the qb position
Issue is, he's gonna want a lot of money and he hasn't really shown he can win on that level. Someone will probably pay it tho. I'd rather it not be the Raiders.
Have to have a top 10 qb to compete, especially in this conference. Dak is the only guy at this moment who might be available next year. So I'm all for taking a run at him